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Protecting a vacation property from the nursing home · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great, Thank you. What do you have for us today?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I've got a couple of the one real life
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  Speaker 3: story and the other one is an actual fair hearing
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  Speaker 3: decision that I had to go to. So no real cases,
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  Speaker 3: but I think these sometimes are even better than Kate.
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  Speaker 3: So the first one deals with, you know, things not
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  Speaker 3: to do with a vacation home when you're faced with
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  Speaker 3: entering a nursing home last minute. And this couple that
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  Speaker 3: came in had had a home and a vacation home
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  Speaker 3: and not a lot of money and just mom was
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  Speaker 3: the surviving spouse heading into a nursing home and they
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  Speaker 3: wondered what to do. So I'm going to explain what
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  Speaker 3: they almost did and then what you shouldn't do, and
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  Speaker 3: tell you how they can get eligible for medicaid even
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  Speaker 3: though there's about a million eight of property available, So
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  Speaker 3: stay tuned for that. The second thing is one that
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  Speaker 3: I actually ended up having to attend a fair hearing
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  Speaker 3: on again, another last minute kind of technique where you know,
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  Speaker 3: a couple that had had a home located across the
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  Speaker 3: border in Maine, just across the border in Maine, and
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  Speaker 3: they had ended up coming down to live with the
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  Speaker 3: sun just to try and take care of dad, and
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  Speaker 3: then they got sick, and you know, can you save
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  Speaker 3: the house and does it being located in Maine have
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  Speaker 3: a problem with saving a primary residence for a married couple.
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  Speaker 3: So how do you save a primary residence for a
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  Speaker 3: married couple last minute? And how do you protect other
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  Speaker 3: assets last minute? Really that's the gist of these cases.
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  Speaker 3: But folks, that's exactly what this guide is about, this
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  Speaker 3: month long term care planning for the procrastinator. And I
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  Speaker 3: don't mean it by saying just the procrastinator. It's somebody
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  Speaker 3: who has done planning but has assets outside the estate,
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  Speaker 3: outside the trust, and are faced with nursing home care.
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  Speaker 3: How do we protect those and assets that you if
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  Speaker 3: you've never done planning, all your assets are outside the trust,
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  Speaker 3: how do we protet these things last minute when there's
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  Speaker 3: no planning done. So it's really something for everyone when
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  Speaker 3: you're faced with this situation. It deals with the home,
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  Speaker 3: the vacation home, money, and they're all treated differently. So
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  Speaker 3: learn the lesson is, don't apply on your own call
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: and get the guide eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com
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  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six ninety
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  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Now Real life
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  Speaker 3: story mom, surviving spouse, she comes, the kids come in.
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  Speaker 3: She had a home and a vacation home. The vacation
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  Speaker 3: home was on the cape. There wasn't a lot of
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  Speaker 3: other assets kicking around now, so she's an example of
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  Speaker 3: real estate rich and cash not so much. And so
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  Speaker 3: the kids came and explained that, you know, mom now
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  Speaker 3: needs a nursing home care and the overall they've been
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  Speaker 3: helping mom with a lot of the expenses, maintaining the
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  Speaker 3: whole home, in the vacation home and whatnot, which makes
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  Speaker 3: sense because you know they're they're probably going to get it,
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  Speaker 3: and she always wanted to pass it to them. Unfortunately,
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  Speaker 3: they never did any planning, you know, and their goal
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  Speaker 3: was obviously to keep her at home, so that's probably
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  Speaker 3: why there wasn't any implanning done. So with no advanced planning,
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  Speaker 3: all they really had was a will, a health care proxy,
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  Speaker 3: and a power of attorney. And you're wondering, okay, you
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  Speaker 3: know what, what can we do? You know, now, so
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  Speaker 3: the health is bad, and can we ultimately save the
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  Speaker 3: house because the kids don't have enough money, well, they
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  Speaker 3: could help with bills, they don't have enough money to
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  Speaker 3: pay for her care right so expensive and so the
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  Speaker 3: home was worked about eight point fifty and the vacation
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  Speaker 3: home was worked about a million. What do we do well?
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  Speaker 3: Tips and lessons? Right, this is what we're going to
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  Speaker 3: learn first. Obviously, planning in advance is way better than
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  Speaker 3: not planning in advance. If they had wanted to pass
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  Speaker 3: this to their children or she did, you know, if
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  Speaker 3: they had just put this in one of the irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: trusts that we've talked about many times on the radio,
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  Speaker 3: and did it more than five years ago, then these
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  Speaker 3: two pieces of property would be completely off the table,
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  Speaker 3: avoiding probate and ready to go to the family when
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  Speaker 3: she passes, and we wouldn't have this issue at all.
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  Speaker 3: We just apply for medicaid because it sounds like she's
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  Speaker 3: probably otherwise financially eligible for it, So okay, can't do that,
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  Speaker 3: So that's just a lesson. So what do we do?
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  Speaker 3: We don't have a time to talk about both. The
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  Speaker 3: home we'll talk about later on in other examples, but
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  Speaker 3: the home, just to be clear, is really simple in
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  Speaker 3: this case. As long as she checks a box that
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  Speaker 3: she intends to return home, it will be non countable
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  Speaker 3: but leanable.
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  Speaker 2: So even if she can't physically return home realistically, just
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  Speaker 2: checking that box her intention, that's all it takes.
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  Speaker 3: It's all it takes, but it will be leaned, but
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  Speaker 3: we don't care. We just want to get it, not
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  Speaker 3: to make us not countable for medicaid, to make us
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  Speaker 3: not ineligible for medicaid. So we'll come back to that
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  Speaker 3: because we're going to talk about a leen in a minute,
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  Speaker 3: and how a lien is really your friend. So that
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  Speaker 3: that kind of leaves us with the vacation home, which
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  Speaker 3: you don't have those kind of rules with the vacation home.
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  Speaker 3: It's just purely at risk. So the only thing you
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  Speaker 3: can really do with the vacation home is you don't
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  Speaker 3: want to give it away. You don't want to sell
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  Speaker 3: it right and have a big capital gain. You rent
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  Speaker 3: it if you convert it to a rental property. The rule,
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  Speaker 3: the simple general rule is if the property is generating
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  Speaker 3: income essential to self support, it becomes a non countable
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  Speaker 3: asset but leanable, but lean So they're gonna put a
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  Speaker 3: lien on it to try and recover when you pass
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  Speaker 3: what they paid on mom's behalf, what the state paid
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  Speaker 3: on mom's behalf. Now, how does that work? Well, what
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  Speaker 3: about the rent? Okay, Well, now you're going to be
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  Speaker 3: getting rent. Well, if you get rent. You can actually
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  Speaker 3: use the rent to maintain the property, So now the
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  Speaker 3: kids aren't out of pocket. They can pay the real
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  Speaker 3: estate taxes, the upkeep, the maintenance, and only the net rent,
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  Speaker 3: so you.
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  Speaker 2: Can still take care of everything you need to take
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  Speaker 2: care of, right, got.
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  Speaker 3: It, And only the net rent goes to the nursing home.
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  Speaker 3: But of course the rent also helps reduce the lean.
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  Speaker 3: So either way, this is really helpful. So if they
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  Speaker 3: just wanted, if the kids just wanted to keep maintaining
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  Speaker 3: the property like they're doing anyway, and use all the
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  Speaker 3: rent for the nursing home, that's okay too. Okay, so
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  Speaker 3: that's really helpful. But like I said, there's going to
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  Speaker 3: be this lean. How does that work? And why is
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  Speaker 3: the lean really your friend? The lean is your friend
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  Speaker 3: because one, by renting a house is now non countable,
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  Speaker 3: so we can apply for medicaid and get approved. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: that's number one. Why that's important is because the nursing
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  Speaker 3: home runs about fifteen grand a month.
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  Speaker 2: On average if you're private paying right.
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  Speaker 3: Your private pain. The medicaid rate, on the other hand,
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  Speaker 3: is about seven grand a month. Well that's not bad.
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  Speaker 3: Let's play out the string she's got social Security and
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  Speaker 3: pension of about three grand a month, rent two grand
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  Speaker 3: a month. She's got five grand a month coming in
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  Speaker 3: that she can pay towards the nursing home. And if
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  Speaker 3: she's on Medicaid, the total cost of the nursing home
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  Speaker 3: per month is only seven grand. Right, so seven minus
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  Speaker 3: five is two. And even if you run the numbers
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  Speaker 3: to say the average stay in the nursing home is
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  Speaker 3: three years, two times thirty six months is seventy two grand. Right. Well,
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  Speaker 3: I've got a million dollar vacation home. At the end
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  Speaker 3: of three years, I owe seventy two thousand dollars back
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  Speaker 3: to the state.
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  Speaker 2: Take that all day, every day.
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  Speaker 3: Take it all day every day. I'm happy with that, right,
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  Speaker 3: Because now the kids one have gotten mom on Medicaid,
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  Speaker 3: two protected both properties. Three have to pay the state
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  Speaker 3: back seventy two thousand dollars, which they can either a
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  Speaker 3: mortgage yep, here is a seventy two thousand dollars mortgage
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  Speaker 3: over thirty years is nothing, pay it back, right, And
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  Speaker 3: so most importantly they've kept the house, and they've got
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  Speaker 3: the house with a step up in cost basis. So
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  Speaker 3: if they had sold it during life to pay for
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  Speaker 3: the nursing home, which you never want to do last minute.
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  Speaker 3: They would have had a big capital gain. I property
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  Speaker 3: has a huge gain on it because long and long ago,
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  Speaker 3: and so now they sell it. If they wanted to
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  Speaker 3: sell it, there's no capital gain because they got to
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  Speaker 3: step up in basis. They could still sell it and
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  Speaker 3: make out by keeping all the money. So win, win,
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  Speaker 3: win all the way around. The lesson here, folks is,
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  Speaker 3: don't apply for medicaid on your own. Learn what these
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  Speaker 3: lives aast minute techniques are, and most importantly, reach out
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  Speaker 3: to a lawyer if you're faced with going into a
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  Speaker 3: nursing home and help have that lawyer help you through
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  Speaker 3: this medicaid process because it's these little unknowns that allow
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  Speaker 3: you to protect assets last minute. So call and get
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: the guide eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We have lots
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the Legal Exchange
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 1: The average monthly cost for a private room in New
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  Speaker 1: England could double by twenty forty. So if you're not
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  Speaker 1: prepared to handle the increased costs of nursing home care,
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  Speaker 1: your assets may be at risk. Call Cushing and Dolan
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  Speaker 1: advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into Lee Exchange with Todd Letsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a masters in taxation. Where
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: are we headed now, Todd.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: We are going to do a fair hearing, so another
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  Speaker 3: it's a real life story, but really it's a it's
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: a case because I ended up having to to defend
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: what we recommended. So in this particular case, it was
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: dealing with a couple who had a primary residence, so
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: different than a single person in a primary residence. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: that's why, you know, folks, the guide so important because
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: each asset is treated differently. So this is a married
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: couple with a primary residence located in Maine, just across
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: the border.
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  Speaker 2: Yep. And just if I can stop you for one second, Todd,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Just to clarify for folks listening, a fair hearing is
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: when you apply for medicaid for someone and you have
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: to go in front of the courts and defend why
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: should be.
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  Speaker 3: Approved because the caseworker denied it. Got it? If the
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: caseworker approves that, you just move on.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Got it.
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  Speaker 3: So that's that's a fair question. Now, they were living
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: in this house, but then it turned out and we
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: did the planning for them five years hadn't lapsed. But
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: about a year ago, maybe not even a year ago,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: they had moved down to Massachusetts to live with the
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: sun hopefully both compare, to take care of Dad whose
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: health was declining. They really didn't change their primary residence,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: but they have their house in Maine, but they've just
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: been sort of down here having help with Dad. Well
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: that's Dad's health continued to decline and it's generally the case.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And so now he can no longer really you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: care for himself at home, and they needed to find
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: a nursing home, you know, for him. And again it
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: was the five year clock had not run yet, so
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: we hadn't gotten past the five years from when we
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: put the house in the trust. So they come in
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  Speaker 3: now to say, well, because they knew this five years
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: had not expired yet, is there anything that we can
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  Speaker 3: do now to save our house last minute? Because that
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  Speaker 3: was their biggest asset. Once again, not an uncommon situation.
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  Speaker 3: And so I start off with some guidance, right, and
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  Speaker 3: we'll begin by saying, obviously they did their planning, and
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: that's why this guide is important for everybody, because sometimes
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: you don't make the five years, and there's always times
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: where there's assets outside the trust. Anyway, let's start with
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  Speaker 3: the general rule. Now, the general rule is pretty easy
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: for a married couple when you're dealing with your primary residents.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: The general rule is if the house is located in Massachusetts,
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: obviously that's a problem. If located in mass and it's
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: the primary residence and the healthy spouse is living there,
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  Speaker 3: then it is noncountable, non leanable, and just one hundred
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  Speaker 3: percent off the table, regardless of the value. Okay, so
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  Speaker 3: that's an easy fix.
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  Speaker 2: So if it were in Massachusetts, no worries at all, and.
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  Speaker 3: There's your problem. Right, folks, this property is located across
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: the border in Maine and they're applying in Massachusetts. What
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: do we do? And I'm going to tell you that
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: in a minute, but before I do, I want to
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: mention the guide a little bit because again, these are
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: the kinds of things that are explained in the guide.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: How do you protect a home whether you're married or single?
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: How does it different if it's a rental property or
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: a vacation home. What do you do with money that's
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: excess dollars kicking around? All these assets are treated differently,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: even life insurance. You need to learn what you can
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: do last minute with each kind of property, whether you're
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: married or single. This is really for everybody that's faced
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: with this situation, So call and get the guide. Do
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: not apply on your own eight six ' six eight
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or legal Exchange Show
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com to
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: get long term care planning for the procrastinators. Back to
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: these folks who really didn't procrastinate, but just didn't get
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: past the five year waiting period. What do we do?
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: The house is not located in mass well, I went
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: through the statutes and I looked, and I said, well,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: why don't we try to get the house out of
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the trust back to dad who's going into the nursing home.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Which we can do. So we get the house back
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: to Dad who's going in the nursing home. And I say, well,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: let's pretend dad was single. If Dad single, what do
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: you do for single people who get sick and go
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: to the nursing home or for an individual who apparently
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: has the house in their own name. Well, if you
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: move out of your home into a nursing home, the
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: house is considered countable unless and there's a bunch of
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: exceptions here. We don't need to go through them all,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: nor do we have the time, but there's a bunch
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: of exceptions. One of them is it's not it's countable
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: unless certain people are living in the house. And there's
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: a laundry list of these people. But guess who's listed as.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Number one spouse?
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: The spouse. So if a spouse is living in the
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: house under this statue, Remember there's two different statutes. I
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: was reading from five to twenty eight A for a
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: married couple, but five twenty seven G eight has this
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: language the exceptions and this languge which says if the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: spouse is living there, stop, it's now non countable.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Guess what it doesn't.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Say Massachusetts doesn't say.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Anything about where it has to be located. It just says,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: if the spouse is living in the house, it's non countable.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I said, well, wonderful, and so I said let's apply
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid. And we got denied. Oh yeah, because they
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: read the statute and said, oh, you're a married couple.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: And the statute says the house has to be located
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: in Massachusetts and it's not, so therefore you're denied.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And I couldn't convince the caseworker. So we went to
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: a fair hearing. And in the fair hearing we started
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: making the arguments right, and I said, look, in this case,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: if you look at every statue in the regulations, whenever
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: mass Health wants one section to apply to another section
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: in the section they wanted to apply to, I said, like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: if you look at the one for a married couple,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: it says the house is non countable, and it references
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: a valuation section. Right, if it wants the valuation section
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: to apply, it references it. Well, if that statute said
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: if this particular statute wanted it to wanted the location
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: of the house to be an issue, it would have
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: either mentioned it or referenced another statue. It didn't neither,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: and I explained to them that saying we are not
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: dealing with the statue. You denied me. On we're dealing
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: with this as dad going in a nursing home. House
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: is in his name one hundred percent. We're applying for medicaid.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: It says it's countable unless a spouse is living there.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: A spouse is living there, does not matter where the
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: house is located. We should be having this house non countable.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: At the end of the hearing, they said, yeah, yeah,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I guess you're right. That's exactly what the statute says.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: You've found a loophole. I love a loophole. It's the statue,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: but it's it's yeah, I'm gonna take that as a loophole.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm okay with it. I mean, we try
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: to advise clients that, you know, it's great that we won.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: We really didn't win. We're just following the rules. Are
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: your statutes that you put together, This is what you
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: said should happen, and so now because the house is
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: not located in Massachusetts, but the spouse is living there,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: it's non countable. So now we wipe our brow and
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: we have it to be non countable and arguably non leanable,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: although we didn't get that far. It is non leanable
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: when it's in under five twenty eight. But here arguably
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: we're not sure whether it's it's leanable or not. But
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: either way, their most important thing they cared about was
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: getting him eligible for Medicaid. They didn't have a lot
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: of money. They did that. They protected the house for
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: the healthy spouse. And now after he's on Medicaid, what
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: do you think we'll do.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: We'll go to my wife.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: We'll go back and implement that planning because now well
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: you know, we're allowed to transfer it back to the spouse,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: which we will do, and then the spouse will put
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: it into trust and we'll get the five year waiting
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: period going so that we can protect it. Folks, don't
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: wait till the last minute to do your planning. Get
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: it done. But in case you don't get the guide
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 23:34
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• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: The average monthly cost for a private room in New
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Norman in Woostermass and Norman writes,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: my father went into a nursing home two years ago.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: With the help of an attorney, we were able to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: do some last minute planning and save some assets for
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: my mother and get my father on Medicaid. My mother
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: is now very ill and isn't expect to live have
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: passed the next few months. Part of the planning included
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: the purchase of an annuity that has three years left
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: in payments to my mother around four hundred and fifty thousand.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: What happens to the annuity money if she passes away
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: before my dad? What happens to the money that she's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: received so far from the annuity around three hundred thousand
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: that is in the bank in her name, so medicaid annuity,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: she's received a couple of years where she's got that
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: in the bank, and then she's got more coming. What
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: happens if mom passes.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I'm going to address the annuity piece first, and then
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say I don't know what kind of
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: planning she did after he got on medicaid. Like I
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: would hope that she did something to plan for that
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: money that she received over the three years. But let's
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: deal with the fact that there's three years left on
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: an annuity. And really, if you could just tell people
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: not to die out of order, it would be much helpful,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: so much more. Well, yeah, I know, so this doesn't
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: happen very often, folks, but it does happen where the
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: healthy spouse, so to speak, the one receiving the annuity payments,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the one who bought this annuity last minute in order
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: to save the assets so that the husband in this
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: case could get on medicaid. Okay, so just to understand
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: what people, they need to know why this annuity was purchased,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: and it was done last minute as a technique to
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: convert what they call excess assets, assets that are over
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: in this case approximately one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: which is what the healthy spouse is allowed to keep,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: So anything over that they probably bought this annuity for
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: to convert it to an income stream so that dad
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: husband could go on medicaid. That's why it was done.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: But in order to do it, some of the rules
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: are such that you have to name the state well
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: as the beneficiary after the spouse for at least the
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: amount of medicaid benefits received on behalf of the institutionalized individual.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: That's a mouthful, but the institutionalized individual in this case
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: will be deemed to be the husband.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So what they've paid, I'm sorry, So what they've paid
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: so far?
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: So what's let's stay with what's left in the annuity.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: So the amount that's still left in the annuity now
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: that she passes is going to have to be paid
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: to the state. Got it, okay, So that's going to
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: continue to start paying the state. Now, if that's not
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: enough to cover the cost, will they be able to
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: go after the money that's sitting in her account that
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: she rec received or collected over the two years that
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: the annuity might have been already running, assuming it was
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: a five year annuity. Well, if she had done planning
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: after her husband went into the nursing home, which is
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: a red flag for everybody, and I hope you would
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: do your planning afterwards. If she set up like a
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: trust and a testamentary trust built into her will and
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: that kind of thing. Then these assets could go into
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: this testamentary trust. They could be available for the spouse
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: but not need to be paid to the spouse, and
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: then be protected for the kids. If, on the other hand,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: it's just sitting in a she just has a will
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: that says I leave everything to my husband, well, then
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: arguably those assets are going to now just pass to
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: the husband, and the husband's going to have the annuity
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: payments coming in and this money sitting in a lump
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: sum in his hands, likely bumping him off Medicaid, at
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: which point we could probably buy another annuity for him
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: and try to get him and back on Medicaid and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: slow the bleeding at least.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Right, but she's not She hasn't passed yet, so they
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: still have some time, thankfully, to do that last minute
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: planning in the testamentary trust and so forth.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, so they should at least get that in place
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: now in order to protect the money that she's already received.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Perfect and hopefully she just doesn't die out of order. Folks,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: don't relying on dying out of order or in order.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: When you run into a nursing home situation, whether you
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: have done planning or not, there is likely going to
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: be assets that are remaining outside of any kind of
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: a plan that you put together and will be at
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: risk for the nursing home. My goal for you today
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: is to not apply for medicaid on your own. To
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: learn about last minute techniques to protect houses and vacation
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: homes and life insurance. And they're all different folks, but
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: they have different rules whether you're married or single. Get
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: the guide, learn what you can do, and then hire
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: somebody to help you with the app location process eight
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: legal exchange show dot com to get the guide eight
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: legal exchange show dot com to get long term care
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: planning for procrastinators.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Eugene and mash pmass and
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Eugene Rights. My wife and I established an irrevocable trust
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: about seven years ago in transferred our home into it.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Can we now add some of our bank and investment
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: accounts to the trust and have the same start date
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: from twenty eighteen apply. My wife is in the hospital
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and it looks like she'll have to go into a
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: nursing home and not be able to return home if
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: the twenty eighteen trust do if the twenty eighteen date
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't apply, what do we do now? We have around
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: four hundred thousand assets outside of our trust. Wow, so
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: home seven years ago looking for a loophole. Four hundred
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: thousand that's at risk.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Down and folks, this isn't a bad plan. This isn't
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: anything that you know, a lot of times people are
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: maybe not comfortable right away putting money in a trust,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: so they say, let's put the house in and really
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: see how it plays out. And maybe they just never
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: got around to adding this other money to the trust later.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: So a couple of questions going on here. One, can
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: you do it? Absolutely you can. You can always add
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: assets to a trust. So if you're listening and you've
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: got a trust and you want to add assets to it,
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: you absolutely can do it later. However, when you do
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: do it, you must have it. That transfer will have
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: its own waiting period. You don't get to use the
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: old waiting period.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: So they have a new five year clock. Yes, and
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: for them, not great because she's going into that, she's
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: in the hospital, she's going in the nursing home now, right.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: So big news here is the seven years has passed
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: on the house. So even if you had added something,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: it would not affect that seven year clock that one's
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: already protected. It would only be a new clock for
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: the new addition. So keep that in mind for you
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: folks out there that might be thinking of adding to
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: your trust, you know now going forward. But this particular person, no,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: we're not going to add to the trust. Now, that's
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: just a bad idea. Okay, you've got four hundred thousand dollars.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: We're going to have to figure out how to protect
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: those last minute. So just for rough numbers, the community spouse,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: the person still in the in the community is allowed
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: to keep about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, give
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: or take. So you would back out one hundred and
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: fifty from the four hundred.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So that's what two point fifty left.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so now I've got two fifty that I still
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: have to deal with because those are considered accountable assets.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: They're countable, but they're really referred to as excess resources.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: How do we get that two hundred and fifty to
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: go away? Interestingly enough, very much like the example we
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: had earlier when Norman called, or Norman had his question answered,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: we would buy that medicaid annuity like existed in the
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Norman case, and we would buy it for the healthy spouse,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: and when we buy it, we would convert that money
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: to an income stream to pay out to the healthy
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: spouse over a period of time that must be termed certain.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: In this case, we would make it five years, we'd
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: make it as short as possible, and we would take
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: it from there. So we need to There's also other
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: rules that go with that, folks, But understanding the annuities
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: you can learn that as well from the guide. There's
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: a whole example eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: six nine, or Legal Exchange Show dot com to download
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: it right there.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back with more after
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: this quick break on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: The average monthly cost for a private room in New
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: England could double by twenty forty. So if you're not
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: prepared to handle the increased costs of nursing home care,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: your assets may be at risk. Call Cushing and Dolan
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: today and request their new guide called Long Term Care
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Planning for Procrastinators. It'll help you understand how to protect
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  Speaker 1: your assets and allow you to enjoy your later years.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: An unexpected nursing home stay could significantly reduce your wealth
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and prosperity.
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  Speaker 4: Call Cushing and.
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  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
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• 38:16
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• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online by visiting Legal
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Exchangshow dot com. That's Legal Exchangshow dot com. The proceeding
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: was paid for in thebuse expressed are solely those of
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan INDO or I'mstrong Advisory
• 38:31
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• 38:37
  Speaker 5: As technology continues to evolve, financial frauds and scams are
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  Speaker 5: becoming more regular and pose a serious threat to your finances. Hi,
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  Speaker 5: seven Common Financial Frauds and Scams at eight hundred three
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• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: advisory services. The calendar is turned and the cold is
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: here to stay, So now is the perfect time to
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: plan that getaway to the US Virgin Islands. Act now
• 39:45
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• 39:48
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• 39:57
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• 40:00
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• 40:03
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  Speaker 1: golf courses, and a wide variety of water sports. From
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the moment you arrive, you'll fall naturally in rhythm with
• 40:13
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• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Book your trip today.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: That's visit USVII dot com and code vibe twenty twenty five.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine and let him make sure your
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: assets are protected. That's eight sixty six eight four eight
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lusky. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I'm joined, of course by Todd Lusky, a partner with
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: in taxation. So Todd, we talk a lot about saving
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: the primary residence. We've talked about the vacation home. We've
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: talked about saving the money. What do you do if
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: someone's going into a nursing home and they own a business.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe you know one spouse is going in and the
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: other spouse is still working with that, you know, family
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: business or something. If someone owns a business, how is
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: that treated in the eyes of the nursing home.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so again we're saying there was no should we
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: do it if there was planning done or there's no.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Plan no planning, lastman, and we'll we'll talk about the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: best way with the advanced planning for sure.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, so we'll come back to that. But yeah, it
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: would seem to me that there's a rule that says
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: property generating income essential to self support is non countable.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: They don't define property. It would seem to me that
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: a business is property and that you should be able
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: to fit into this category.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So similar to the vacation home that you rented to
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: get it to be essential to self support.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Right, if you if you create real estate and make
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: it a rental property, now it's arguably and arguably that
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: could be a business. You could be managing real estate.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: So so that that converts the rental property into a
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: non countable asset. Here though we actually have an LLC
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: or we don't do we know if it's a company.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Or it's just a general question.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, So if it's a general company and you're the
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: it would have to be a company because the DBA
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: probably you know you you're the owner of the company.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: I would are I have never really done this because
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: arguably most of the time people don't you know, when
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: they go to a nursing home. They're long retired, right,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: and they're not really working. So I don't want you
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: to think that it's something that comes up all the time.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: But it's a fair question because there could be a
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: difference in age and they're running the company. And now
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: let's say husband gets sick and wife's going to run
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: the company's fine. So as long as it's a company
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: and it's generating income essential to self support, which clearly
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: it would be, I would believe that that. I would
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: argue anyway that that asset is a non countable asset.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Now it's probably leanable, you know, I would imagine it's leanable,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: but at least it's not going to prevent the husband
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: and our example from applying and getting approved for Medicaid.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: There might be other assets, but yeah, this won't be okay.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So I think about those family businesses todd where maybe
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: mom and dad own the company, still maybe the kids
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: are running it. And you know they're all involved. So
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: looking at it from the perspective of hey, mom and
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: dad are aging. Now we know that if they go
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: to the nursing home, either one of them, this business
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: is going to be at risk. What's the best way
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: to do your planning in advance to protect that business,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: because now you're not just talking about your own income,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: You're talking about the income of your family as well,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: your kids and their livelihood.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: And you may yeah, like you said, you may have
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: kids that are actually in the business and are hoping
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: to get it down the road so they can continue
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: the business.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Or it could be a big real estate portfolio. Like
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: you said, you're managing it.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: And so I would take the position that you when
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: you're doing the planning, the trust planning, and let's just
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: say it's like an LLC, we would take the shares
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: of the company and put them inside the trust.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: In that way, the trustee or multiple trusts, one for husband,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: one for wife, and the trustees of the trust then
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: would be kind of in control of that entity. However,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: the managers who don't even have to be owners. The
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: managers could still be mom and dad, okay, and they
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: can run the company. They can make the decisions, pay
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: the bills, they just can't agree to sell it. Obviously,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: the shareholders work, but they would control the trustee on
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: the trust and now the five year clock is gone. Okay,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: this is great for advanced planning, but it doesn't exist
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: all the time when it comes to entering a nursing home.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you've done your planning and there's assets outside. Sometimes
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: you've not done your planning and all the assets are
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: outside of a trust and need to be protected. So
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: this guide really is for everybody faced with long term care. Ever,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: it tells you how to protect real estate, businesses, money, life, insurance,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: rental properties, and each asset has its own characteristics and
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: they're different for married and single people. Folks, get the guide,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: learn what you can do last minute to protect your assets,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: and the lesson learned is do not apply for medicaid
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: on your own. Get the guide eight six six eight
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
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• 46:25
  Speaker 2: So very often, you know, we get those last minute
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: planning scenarios because people have put off their planning. But
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: when you mentioned the LLC. It started me thinking down
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the path of how many clients we have mutual clients
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: that own rental properties and they're going into do their planning.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: So what do you typically recommend Because a lot of
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: people have that one building or a couple buildings of
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: rental property and they want to protect that. But can
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: we talk about, you know, the benefits of that LLC
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: and how that works into if you're trying to do
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: youryvocable trust planning as well.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's fair. When you mentioned business before,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: I was thinking, you know, business business.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: I was thinking business business too. But I think this
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: it's very common for the rental property.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think you're very accurate there that a lot
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: of the LLCs that we run into might be ones
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: that simply own rental property and that's a business perfectly okay,
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: and so it would be treated the same way. So
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: here's what we would do. If we're meeting them, and
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: let's say they haven't done any planning at all, we
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: would first recommend that the rental properties be placed in
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: an LLC.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: And what's the benefit of doing that.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: So by putting the rental properties in an LLC, if
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: there's a lawsuit filed against them because the tenant slipped
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: and fell or the ice or you know already someone
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: got hurt fell off the balcony. That lawsuit would be
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: against the company, not them personally, yep, which is huge
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: because they might have eras and investment accounts and home
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: and other personal assets that they would like not to
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: have you exposed to this creditor. And so now they
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: would sue the company and they can only get the
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: asset in.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: That LLC, got it, And they don't really want the building.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: They want the insurance payout. You know, they want the dollars.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: That's absolutely right, you know, they want the money. And
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: so the good news is they would sue the entity
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: and I would, as you said, Susan, I would make
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: sure that they've got umbrella insurance and things like that.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: So they don't want the building.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you this then, because we do
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: run into a lot of people who are just starting
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: out thinking about doing their planning, but they already have
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: an LLC. So do you keep that same LLC and
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: use that in conjunction with a new very vocable trust
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: that you're doing, Like, are you going to upset their
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: apple cart and change all sorts of things when it
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: comes to that LLC.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so good news. No, we wouldn't upset their apple cart.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: And yes, if their LLC is in existence and it's
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: got an operating agreement everything else, we tend to keep it. Yes,
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: And whether we keep the existing one or we create
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: a new one because they didn't have one, we would
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: either way take the shares of the LLC and transfer
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: the shares into the irrevocable trusts so that they can
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: be you know, get the five year clock running and
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: not only avoid probate and shelter for estate taxes, but
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: also protect the business from ever being considered accountable, leanable,
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: or anything because the ownership would be in the trust.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: And then they continue operating, you know, bringing on new clients,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: collecting rents, kicking people out, the whole thing the same
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: way they were as before.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: Yep. And they could pay the bills, collect the rent.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: It would just flow through. First would flow into the LLC,
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: and then the excess rent after they pay all the
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: bills can flow into the trust. And since the trust
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: is an income only trust, they simply flow the rent
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: rental income out into their personal account and they move
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: forward and they continue to live off the rent and
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: as a grant to our trust, it will not pay
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: tax at the higher trust levels. It will pay tax
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: at their levels. Folks. That's the great advanced planning. But
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: you're going to run into times when you go into
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: the nursing home and there are going to be assets
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: outside of any trust, or if no trust was in place,
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: they're going to be there to need to be protected.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Last minute, get the guide eight six six eight four
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Pushing and Dolan, thank.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: You so much, Thank you always a pleasure.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: We'll be back again next week on the Legal Exchange
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: The average monthly cost for a private room in New
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: England could double by twenty forty So if you're not
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: prepared to handle the increased costs of nursing home care,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: your assets may be at risk. Call Cushing and Dolan
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: today and request their new guide called Long Term Care
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Planning for Procrastinators. It'll help you understand how to protect
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: your assets and allow you to enjoy your later years
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and unexpected nursing homes stay could significantly reduce your wealth
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and prosperity. Call Cushing and Dolan right now at eight
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: get your free guide called long Term Care Planning for procrastinators.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Don't put off today what you might really need to
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: do tomorrow. Call eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: six ninety nine. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine. Or you can request the guide
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: online by visiting Legal Exchange Show dot com. That's Legal
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: exchange Show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: the use expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan Indoor I'm Strong Advisory may contact you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: offering legal investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: do not endorse each other and are not affiliated. The
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: calendar is turned and the cold is here to stay,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: So now's the perfect time to plan that getaway to
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the US Virgin Islands. Act now and take advantage of
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a special promotion to Saint Croix, experience a vibe like
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: no other, and receive a two hundred and fifty dollars
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: per person airfare credit and a free hotel night when
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: you book a five night minimum stay with any participating
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: hotel before June thirtieth, twenty twenty five. Saint Croix is
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: known for its incredible history and spectacular architecture, along with
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: world class cuisine, incredible golf courses, and a wide variety
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: of water sports. From the moment you arrive, you'll fall
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: naturally in rhythm with the heartbeat of the islands. There's
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: no money to exchange, and travel from New England could
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: not be easier. America's Caribbean paradise is waiting for you.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Experience a vibe like no other on the island of
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Saint Croix. Go to visit USVII dot com and use
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: the code Vibe twenty twenty five for more information and.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: Book your trip today.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: That's visit USVII dot com and code Vibe twenty twenty five.
• 53:00
  Speaker 5: With digital technology continuously evolving, hackers are coming up with
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: incredibly elaborate schemes to commit fraud, which could put your
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: financial well being at risk. Ay this is Mike Armstrong
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: from the Armstrong Advisory Group, and in today's landscape, it's
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: critically important that you beware of the potential dangers that exist.
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: Our new guide is called seven Common Financial Frauds and Scams,
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: and its purpose is to help you understand what steps
• 53:22
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• 53:25
  Speaker 5: identity theft, inheritance scams, or Ponzi schemes. This guide can
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: educate you about these risks, giving you the chance to
• 53:31
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• 53:35
  Speaker 5: us today at eight hundred three nine three four zero
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: zero one and request our new guide called seven Common
• 53:41
  Speaker 5: Financial Frauds and Scams. That number once again eight hundred
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: three nine three four zero zero one.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services.