Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Founder’s Associate: The Stepping Stone to Nowhere

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Founder’s Associate: The Stepping Stone to Nowhere · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let me get to it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: My Riverside name, just so you know, is associated with this episode.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Bjorn Again Christian.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, or maybe I won't.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll find out.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's see.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this week's job ad has everything.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this week's job ad has everything.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Big ambitions, bigger numbers, and a founder who has some very specific ideas about the
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: kind of person they'd like to hire.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: One tiny startup has raised some money, money, money and is now looking for someone
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: willing to take a chance on them.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who reads a job ad that says, if you're simply looking for a job, keep scrolling,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: and thinks, gimme, gimme, gimme.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: But is this the opportunity of a lifetime?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: A beautifully transparent look at startup life?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or will the winner take it all while the rest of us are left asking, does your mother know
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: what you just signed up for?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing me, knowing you, Paul, I think we're gonna have a lot to talk about.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So grab your passport, your platform boots, and possibly your employment lawyer, because
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: we are going to Sweden, and yes, those were all ABBA references.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roast this post.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Another Swedish startup that has a whole whackload of money to spend and it's not Spotify?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: my goodness, colour me intrigued.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am so
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: concerned that one of these days we are both gonna have the same job ad, that you're gonna
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: concerned that one of these days we are both gonna have the same job ad, that you're gonna
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: be like, no, I was gonna do this
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: one.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: But so far that hasn't happened.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, we're six... we're six months in and we have not like crossed streams on the job
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: ads yet.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I guess we just travel in different internet circles.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's go with the Roasty Profile.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: The job title is Founder's Associate.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: The report-to title is Founder and CEO.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Question mark.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Company size, two to ten employees.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is industrial automation.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: What they do.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: They develop sensor technology that continuously monitors the structural condition of
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: critical infrastructure, helping identify potential
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: problems before failures occur.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Their technology is used across areas such as energy, transportation, mining, and heavy
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: industry.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: The head office location is Stockholm, Sweden.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: The job location is Stockholm, Sweden.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: The geographical operating area is global.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the job type is full-time, permanent, hybrid.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thoughts?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Initial thoughts?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for Canada to be like the newest associate member to the EU and have like
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: working travel privileges so that I can work for these folks.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is a space that I'm really, really interested in.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: industrial IoT hardware, like using sensing apparatuses to drive productivity and
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: efficiency and safety and
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: in heavy industry... is like... that's my bag.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love this stuff.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Two to ten employees.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a small company.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a small friggin' company.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious to hear more...
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: because at that size, I'm wondering if they are a designer of the technologies and
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: then they contract out... they must contract out the manufacturing and, you know, the IP and
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: whatever else.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious to see what this looks like.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, typical headings, it's not that long of a job ad, so I am going to read through and
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: then I'm gonna go into a little bit of the questions that are asked when you apply for the
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: role.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it starts with about the job.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So about the job, we are COMPANY.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And given our recent 2.6 million euro fundraise and 13 million LOI, which is letter of
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: intent, we are seeking highly driven top 1% talent to join our team and scale our
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: monitoring solution to a multi-billion euro infrastructure market.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're simply looking for a job, This is not for you.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: We seek highly motivated people who proactively and obsessively strive to solve novel
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: problem all the way to product launch and beyond, fundamentally changing the way we
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: build, maintain, and monitor physical structures.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: With an ex-McKinsey leadership, we have developed and patented industry leading technology
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: over the last seven years and recently reached a technical breakthrough, enabling a
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: oversubscribed
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: seed round with top-tier investors to be announced, selected as Sweden's top 33 startups,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: chosen out of 3,400 startups to the NATO DIANA program.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Which stands for Defense Innovation Accelerator for the North Atlantic, meaning they were
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: selected for NATO's competitive accelerator for emerging technologies with potential
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: defense and security applications, and received an letter of intent to purchase 47,000
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: sensors.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: It goes on to say: Vision, become the leading structural integrity data provider globally.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Target, volume production and distribution of retrofitted sensor, providing 20 years of
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: structural integrity data.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Culture, truth seeing, high agency, pragmatic, entrepreneurial, and hypothesis driven,
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: seeking exceptional, drive, intelligence, and integrity, lead rather than follow.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the about the job section.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna stop right there.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: As a reminder to listeners, we read verbatim as it's written.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So any grammars or typos or anything like that just get read right into the job ad.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there were a few.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is based in Sweden and written in English.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thoughts, prayers?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's... we can definitely give them a
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: little bit of slack for the ESL thing for sure.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: that was a lot of hype language
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: for a 15 million euro round.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a big round.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a big round by any means, especially when it includes a purchase LOI.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not firm money.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: that LOI, that capital is not available until they have a commercial product that is
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know, kind of in the vein of it meets the client's needs and they're ready to
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: manufacture and ship.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the thirteen million LOI is... it's nothing money right now.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So these
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: 2.6 million euro fundraise with a thirteen million LOI.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah...
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Your 2.6 million in funding, like that'll
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: keep your small team, two to ten, going for awhile for sure.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: this... so if this LOI includes 40,000 sensors and it's a 13 million euro LOI,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: that's about 325 euros per sensor, give or take.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So these things are... that could be a really interesting sweet spot.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: That suggests to me that these sensors are... there is value add to them and there is
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: technical complexity.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they are doing something that is, you know, it's not like a three cent RFID tracking
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: tag.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's probably some... there's probably some technical... kind of complexity to these.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But not so much so that we're in the space where it takes five years to manufacture
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: one sensor at a cost of like 200 million euros, sort of thing.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this could be pretty compelling, depending on what the sensors do.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: this first section, yeah, a lot of hype, a lot of hype, a lot of talk.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: they said that it's led by an ex-McKinsey person.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that I'm sure that that would impress some people, but for me it kind of makes my
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: my warning flags go up a little bit and I start to wonder like, is this a real business
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: or is this a financial engineering business and they're looking to create a payday on
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: something and perhaps get acquired by a big defense tech company without actually
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: developing any really interesting, useful commercial product or intellectual property?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: that's what I think when, you know, like the big four and big five consultants get
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: name-dropped.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean call me Shania Twain 'cause that don't impress me much.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're saying you're ex-McKinsey...
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: don't laugh at your own jokes, Jen.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: God.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're saying
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: you're ex-McKinsey, that tells me what kind of culture you are trying... and you're a
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: founder?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: That tells me what kind of culture you're trying to create and that's going to be
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: exhausting and a really harsh environment.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so for some people that's, like you said... that's great.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: For others, not so much, like myself.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do like that they've listed clear targets and vision.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're naming some evidence.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just making claims of, "we're revolutionizing this industry"... which we see
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: so often in job ads, they're like, it's all talk and there's really nothing behind it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so they are providing a little bit of evidence.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: We are seeing those tropes, like meaningless classes, one percent talent, what is that?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: What one percent talent... it's a lot whole lot of nothing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's the same thing of
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: if you're simply looking for a job, this is not for you.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so tired of seeing this.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: We are seeing it, listeners.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: if you if you follow Roast the Post, this comes up a lot.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, what if someone is just looking for a job?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not gonna hire them because you need this to be their entire life?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: They are not the founder, you are.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Get over yourself.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so tired of founders expecting everyone to put in the same as them.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, if there's equity, like share whatever it is, maybe, but at the end of the day,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: this is your baby, and you're asking someone to help you raise it, and you're not giving
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: them, you know, the the title of co-parent, if you will.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of metaphors there.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what they're... when companies say this...
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: what they're really saying is, and this is me them the
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: benefit of the doubt...
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: When companies say this, what they're really saying is "we want someone who is motivated by
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: purpose, fulfillment, and the mission... versus a salary."
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fair.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the way you're phrasing it does not say that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: The way that you're phrasing it says we want someone to give absolutely everything about
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: yourself to us.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And well, what are you gonna get in return?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: A salary, because we have to by law, but we'll see.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see indeed.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then my other note is like you mentioned, there's a lot of prestige signalling...
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: ... the McKinsey thing.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: an LOI is just an LOI.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's meaningless.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen this happen before, working in venture.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: It really doesn't mean a whole lot.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many things that can go wrong.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the LOI contingent on?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is it on looking at your data room?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are they still finishing some diligence?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't mean anything.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's cool that you got an LOI, but
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: it's like when your kids give
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: you a coupon for your birthday saying, I'll clean the house once and they never
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: do.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just not
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: There is one thing that they did do in that section that I quite liked and
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: thought was valuable, was that they talked about how they are in an accelerator that
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: is connected to NATO and presumably
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: the SAFE program in Europe, the rearmament of the continent.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: there's tons of money flowing into defense right now because that's where the world's at,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: unfortunately.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Tons of money flowing into that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So orienting and saying like,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're connected to this ecosystem that is pretty useful context for someone who's looking
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: at this company.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I did like that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good for them.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And... good for them.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time... it's called Roast the Post.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna roast.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But there are always gonna be things, well not all of us, but there will be things that
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: are... we find very impressive and you know, things that we don't spend as much time on.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah, absolutely good for them.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not nothing either.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an important reminder for companies to
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you do have things like that, that back up your claims, add them to your job ad.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you that credibility.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just saying we're revolutionizing that, like you have a patent, say it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, say all the things.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can say, yeah, it's prestige signalling or whatever.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what you're trying to do.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: In this first initial paragraph, you're trying to catch the candidate's attention and
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: you want them to be impressed.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole point.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: As long as what you're saying is true, then go for it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is your opportunity.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: to toot your own horn.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos to this company for getting to where they're at, especially being so tiny.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: The next section is the role.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And let me share with you.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about how I want to break this up, but I'm just gonna do it as the
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: role because there's a lot packed in here.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You will be given ownership in the company as you work directly with me and the COO,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: starting with whatever,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: whatever most needs solving that week to offload me across a broad set of tasks.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: As you learn about the company, the industries, and the clients, you proactively take the
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: lead, shaping your own path as well as the company's.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: This role is about growing into a leader who takes increased ownership to help deliver our
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: first 13 million euro LOI.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: If successful, this may in itself 6x our valuation while we target a 50x increase over
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: the next four years within a far larger underlying market.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's just one paragraph.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to point out.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't normally stop here, but I just want to point out that this is why I said reports
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: to founder and CEO... ?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because at this point, it's obviously somebody narrating their job
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: ad, and they're saying you will be given ownership in the company as you work directly
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: with me, but they haven't said who they are yet.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to point that out.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's really interesting.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I picked up on that too.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that signalled that the that the founder, the ex-McKinsey person, wrote this
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: job ad themselves, which I...
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: They 100% did.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I quite like it when hiring managers or hiring parties heavily participate in
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: the process of crafting the job ad.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes that means they write it themselves, as in this case, and as in
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: the case of some other
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: job as we've roasted where it's been bad and they shouldn't
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: have written it *just* themselves.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: But when the hiring party is involved, you get a lot more connection to the culture and
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: that narrative and story shows through a lot more clearly, which is an important part of
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: recruiting, of hiring "1% talent" or whatever they phrased it as, people that
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: you really want around who are high fit and highly motivated.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think this company has any kind of like recruitment or HR function.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just sounds like this person, this CEO founder, they would've
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: wrote it down themselves.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that... get the hiring manager and the person
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: most directly connected to the work to write the first draft.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you do have an HR department or whatever and you need to refine it a little
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: bit, sure, but maybe you don't even need to.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure they're not like saying anything illegal.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it should be fine.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna connect a lot better that way.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the first paragraph only in the role section.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, we normally don't just break it up by paragraph.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I actually do appreciate that they are saying they are not a COO.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're acknowledging that they are not a COO.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, this is my role.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Cause sometimes in these early startups, they're like, I'm everything.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm HR, I'm a CEO, I'm a COO.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that they recognize that those are different capabilities that they might not
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: have to me is pretty cool.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, saying saying that I'm not kitted out to be the Chief Operating Officer and I'm
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: going to hire one separately, like I assume that the Founder's Associate and the COO are
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: going to be different roles... good.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the CEO being very clear that they're not the COO, that is good,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: you do see those two leadership roles kind of like blur together, melt
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: together in early stage startups.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And depending on how the person in that blended
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: role holds on to it or doesn't over time can have a pretty drastic impact on the success
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: of the firm, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they can let go of the COO thing and hire a COO as soon as they are ready to and
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: as soon as they have the cash flow to, great.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if they think they can just do it all, bit of a challenge.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what I mean when I said there are some job ads where...
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: there are some really good things in this one.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are some other parts where I'm like, yeah, no.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go back to the role because as a refresher, that was just one paragraph.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they're basically saying, you know, you'll work directly with me and the COO.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't know who me is technically.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do, because I found this job ad...
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just say it's the CEO.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the COO who is yet to be hired.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those are interesting notes.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It goes on to say this is deliberately a stepping stone role, and the expectation is that
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: you outgrow it as you automate tasks away as a strong and proven user of AI and help scale
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: the company.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: The person I am looking for here is the same kind as the COO.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: The main difference is seniority.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a comfortable title.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is likely the steepest learning curve you'll find.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I set high ambitions and have strong views that can be convinced by facts and rational
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: arguments.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to you, over time, starting to challenge my pace and ambitions to push all of
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: us to improve.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: This role requires intrinsic motivation and drive, maturity in handling your ego and
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: emotions, and honesty in recognizing mistakes.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do not pretend to be perfect or expect this from you, but it's critical that we
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: all seek truth and communicate honestly and transparently to develop as a team.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, huh?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting, very self-aware.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: If what they wrote is not a load of bullsh*t, I would...
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that there are pretty top marks from me so far in communicating what they're
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: all about.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for for a role that's very closely tied to the Founder and CEO, there's a
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: pretty the relationship dynamics between them and the people in their close orbit.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: can make or break the company.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So setting expectations like this and saying, this is kind of what I'm all about, and I
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: expect you to do this,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I'm a human being, those are all pretty good signs, I think.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they definitely signal and filter for what this person thinks they need.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: need to take a quick peek at our Roast the Post site because I want to...
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want people who
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: are listening to this to look at the difference between
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: What this CEO is conveying in their job ad versus the episode called Director of HR, The
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: First Team Fallacy with Brandi Copeland.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is a very clear difference, and you can say, like I have some
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: red flags in this language as well, but you can see the difference between someone who is...
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: just basically
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: seems to lack self-awareness, and that's in the Brandi Copeland episode.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not Brandi herself, but the episode that we roasted,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: and just kind of like states... this is the way that things are gonna get done,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: this is my way or the highway, you adapt to our culture, we don't adapt to you kind of
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: language.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody's saying, I am this way and I know I'm this way.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, which is an interesting
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: note too, at some point I expect you to be comfortable enough to push back at me because I
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: don't know everything.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a... there's a big difference.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: it's a very similar vibe, if you will, of somebody being very self-assured.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the difference is that there... with that self-assurance comes some, I guess,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: emotional intelligence, if you will, and self-awareness.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I guess some concerns are that they explicitly expect you to outgrow the role.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not necessarily a concern, but
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: when you were also hiring a COO, and this job is very similar because I compared the two
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: role descriptions side by side.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where then is this person going to go?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: This it says it's a Founder's Associate, which to me reads as a Chief of Staff.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of the vibe that I'm getting from this role.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you agree.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so then, where is this person going to go once they outgrow the role?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I mentioned, the founder wants challenge, not necessarily obedience.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: They say whatever most needs solving that week to offload me, means the role is
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: fundamentally defined by the Founder's needs versus the mandate.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where language and reading between the bullet points is really important.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And now sometimes people maybe just aren't as good at like articulating what they...
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: just articulating themselves.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's something there that I'm misreading.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when you say, which we get into what you will do, and it and they also say explicitly
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: whatever needs solving that offloads me that week.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, which is the priority?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Am I taking things off of your plate for you or am I following the mandate?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes those will be conflicting with each other.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is where I worry about role design.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: When we talk about job ad, this job ad is going to get high points for me because of
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: the transparency and the way it's written.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: But when we talk about role design, this is where it's going to lose points and the score
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: won't be as high because of things like this.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, they talk about maturity and handling your ego and emotions.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because what is... what are they alluding to?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: What might this person come up against?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: and is that code for handling my ego and my emotions?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they saying your own?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a little bit concerned there with the language as well.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: and then as I mentioned, they say same kind as the COO, the main difference is seniority.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're gonna talk about that because
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: After looking at the COO posting, that's like... they're being very literal here.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: There is substantial overlap between the two jobs.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when they talk about seniority, I'm wondering
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: if you can guess how many years they're talking about because seniority means years, years
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: of experience.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you were to say that this is the more junior version of the COO job, how many
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: years difference do you think that they're expecting then the COO to have between this
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: role?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what we've... from what we've heard so far, if I was structuring this organization and
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: trying to figure this out and build it out, and I was hiring both a COO and some sort
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: of operational-minded business builder, I would probably be looking for a COO with 10
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: years direct experience in this industry or something comparable.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: and the business builder
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: person, the operationally-minded person who's gonna grow into another role...
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Probably four or five would be what I'd be looking for.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that would be dependent on a lot of different things.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: But off the top of my head right now, I think that's kind of how I would be going.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and I agree with you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: and when I compare the two, fundamentally, 'cause there are different requirements for
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: different things, but fundamentally they're asking for a difference of two years of
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: experience.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's...
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: they either want a really junior COO or they
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: want a really senior builder associate person.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's interesting.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think it's more a case of... this is where we get into the hiring
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: manager writing the job ad.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's really helpful.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: and then someone needs to come in and point out some of these issues, like okay, but
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: here's what you're gonna run into.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: here are the problems that you're gonna encounter as you scale or whatever.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are the kinds of flags.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: But again,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: just role design versus job ad, it is a very important distinction.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: any other thoughts on that section before we move on?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Man, we've we've spent more time talking about this section than we do entire job ads
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: This was a really good find.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, let's let's move on.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we're gonna
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: have a lot more to say about it.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good find.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: so, and I actually thought about whether or not this is the one to bring to Rebecca,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: who's guesting, The Strategic Linguist, because there's a lot of language stuff, but it is
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: not.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I decided this one was for just the two of us.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Next section is what you'll do.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also short, but I'm gonna... we're gonna go into it a little bit.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So what you'll do, take a broad range of operational, financial, and administrative tasks,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: learning the company bottom up while progressively taking on more responsibility and
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: leadership.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Work with me and the COO to build the company AI-first.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's strive towards automating as much as possible so that the leverage compounds for you
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: and for the company.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Prepare the analysis behind pricing, market sizing, and go-to-market decisions.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Build and own the financial model, the board pack, and the investor update.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Run parts of the commercial pipeline end-to-end.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Account research, outreach, follow-up, and CRM discipline.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Support the preparation of the next funding round.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Take on the work you see is needed without being asked, and grow your role in the
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: direction where you create the most value.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I wanted to stop here because you whistled.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I noted substantive work here
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: with like...
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: completely different skill set.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to hear Paul's take on this.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, short... that was a short section, but it did say some things to me that I
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: find notable.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: This Founder's Associate, they're looking at this to be a ball of clay type person.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: That language kind of says to me, they want this person to kind of come in, you
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: know, do a little bit of all of the things, make things more efficient, be AI first, build
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: leverage and productivity that scales through the use of AI and other tools.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: High level, that makes sense.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can definitely make arguments for or against about whether being AI-first is a good
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: idea or not.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've got my own opinions on that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've always kind of been... "choose the most appropriate tool for the job."
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And saying AI-first is taking away that idea of
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: choose the most appropriate tool for the job.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: saying use AI for everything, which isn't a great idea.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of besides the point.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: They said something about managing deal flow, CRM discipline.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the question that comes to mind for me is: is this person also doing sales?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are they prospecting for accounts?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Are they managing accounts?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are they managing deal flow?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or are they supporting
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: sales operations through imposing a system and some discipline on the sales
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: people, resources, that already exist.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: If it's the former and they're doing sales?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a terrible idea.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: If it's the latter and they're building structure to support teams through sales
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: operations, okay, I can kind of see that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a little bit ambiguous the way that it's worded.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that that definitely sets off some warning bells for me at
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: this point.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, and I'm looking, and they do have someone who is like
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: a commercial lead on their team.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: so to me, they're taking care of sales.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, substantive work, all sorts of different skill sets.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you, the AI-first, like
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: they're not gonna say this in the job ad, but what is their AI policy?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it AI no matter what?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like is that the way to go?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are they... are there sensitivities about it?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I don't know.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of functional territory.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when they say you're gonna take on the work you see is needed without being asked, I'm
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: always worried about that because there is no ceiling for that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on a personality type, you're, I mean, it's burnout.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: This job?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Burnout, you know it's gonna burn you out.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe once they get the COO as well, it'll be a little bit... better scoped, and
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: maybe they're just customizing it to the people who land these roles.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: but for people who are brand new trying to impress, maybe you're a people pleaser, whatever
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: it is, like
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: there is no ceiling for how much you take on and it can be quite risky.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then also what if you take on things the COO has already said?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, don't know if it's the CEO yet because they haven't said who's writing the job
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: ad, but if they've already said
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like some... alluded to some things about their personality too.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: That might be a challenge where you decide to take something on and maybe you weren't
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: supposed to.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So having... if you get this job, having clear expectation conversations, a clear
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: scope, RASCI type conversations, who's, you know, responsible, who's accountable, that
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: kind of stuff will be really helpful.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: and you touched on this too, and I said it earlier.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like AI isn't the tool here, it's like the operating model.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's concerning as well.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it...
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I often, when we have these conversations and we touch
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: on AI, I realize that I often sound like an AI doomer.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually not.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that AI can be extremely useful when deployed appropriately and responsibly.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: the challenge is that leadership teams, especially teams who have the majority of their
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: leadership experience pre-AI, don't understand the technology
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: that well and they don't understand the distinctions and they say "just use AI."
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they give those directives to people and then people are like, okay, let's use AI for
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: everything.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't end up very well.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't end up well.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I worry for things like that in terms of like quality control.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to change code, if you're trying to go back and fix something, if
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: you're not doing
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: proper documentation, like in the old school
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: days, and having like your decision trees and all of that stuff, it's gonna be really
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: hard to find those issues.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: and it gets really complex when you're adding like
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: command over command over command and not just keeping some straight up
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: analog style documentation to go back to as a fail-safe and it sounds like extra work but I
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: think that people like you it just you're seeing this happen.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whole companies built on AI can crash because of one
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: or two tiny little mistakes that they can't trace back and they can't find.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: and it's very risky.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure these people know more about it than I do.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also not an AI doomer at all, but it's something that I think needs a lot more
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: thought.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: and we just need to
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: keep some old practices of documentation and like knowledge transferring and things like
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: that because it's that failsafe.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: let's go on to must-have.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna cover here must-have and nice to have.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: must-have, two plus years at a top-tier strategy consultancy, investment bank, private
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: equity firm, or a comparable analytical function.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Experience at a startup in a leading role where you drove outcomes rather than observed
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: them.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Strong conceptual and analytical ability.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have built a model that a real decision was made on.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Self-motivation and high energy.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: You set your own agenda and act without supervision.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Strong practical use of AI to automate your own work with something concrete you can show.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's must-have.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now we go into nice to have.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Founding experience of your own, however small the outcome.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Enough SQL, Python, or scripting to automate a process end to end, interest in heavy
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: industry, hardware, or energy, experience with fundraising processes or investor
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: reporting.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stop there.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Consultants love consultants.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Consultants love consultants.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Saying that you must have done two years at a big four or big five organization
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: or an investment bank or something else.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: that is an interesting thing to put in "must have."
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because the way that the job reads before this, I would have considered that
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: irrelevant.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Big four consulting, investment bank, whatever.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is an operations role.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who cares?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Who gives a d*mn?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: it's the most irrelevant thing that they've put in terms of like experience that you
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: should have.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they're... at the same time, they're putting it there.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the question that I have is... why?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Does the CEO or the person who wrote this job ad envision this Founder's Associate person
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: eventually growing in to be like, I don't know, a part of the fundraising and investment
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: advisory sort of part of the business?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like do they want them to
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: manage all of that eventually, exclusively.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: if so, like you're creating a bit of a Franken-role here by
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: saying build the operational stuff
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: and also like manage the fundraising and those expectations and everything else.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of silly.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Startup experience, you've founded your own startup, or you have
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: kind of worked in that environment at a leadership level.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of get it, but I would also argue that that is not necessarily relevant for a role
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: like this.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're painting a picture of this role being that of a builder, not a leadership
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: role.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is not titled as leadership responsibility, though it sounds like you want
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: somebody who has that kind of cognitive approach or
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: intellectual capability.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fair enough, but you're reducing the amount of people who could step into this role
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: and do really, really well with it by kind of directing that it must be this.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this also, I think, to your point earlier, where you said there's overlap between
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: this and the COO role, this increases it because your COO is the person who I would say
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: that these two points.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like your COO is the person who... they're relevant for because they are a leadership person
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: in the organization.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are C-suite.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: They are going to have more responsibilities and they are going to be tied to the
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: strategic function of the organization.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: The person building the parts is not necessarily the strategic person.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you shouldn't really try and put those things together, but it looks like you are.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have questions why.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's going to be very effective.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: My recommendation for this company would be to first hire the COO.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: First hire your COO.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see what you get and then fill in those gaps
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: with this role.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that person can support, they can be like the Chief of Staff and they can support you,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: the CEO, and the COO.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: My thoughts on this experience was that
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: they want someone who's already led in a startup, despite positioning this as a
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: developmental stepping stone.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: They say verbatim, developmental stepping stone.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so... kind of weird.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of weird, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of weird.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's relevant to have experience in a startup.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: More so than having like consultancy experience.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: time, then why are you calling this a stepping stone role?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: It almost...
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if in their brain, when they say that they want someone who has startup
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: experience and the person that they picture in their mind, the candidate profile,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if they're picturing with this startup experience thing.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody who's like twenty-four, twenty-five, they had a little kind of experiment in
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurship and created a business and
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: it completely blew apart.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they want that because they want someone who understands what that's like.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Who can then grow into a future role.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if they're signalling that or if that's what they want, but they don't even
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: realize it.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good question,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: and I... or somebody who worked like in a consulting firm but off the side of their desk,
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: they did a little something-something and it either was
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: successful or not, you know.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, I the other note I have on this job ad is on that section is that it says... you
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: set your own agenda and act without supervision, which sounds great.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I like that, but then
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: The Founder self-describes as someone who's highly ambitious with strong views.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just wonder, again, what they're gonna come up against with that.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, in my experience, Founders want yes people.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: They just want someone to validate their decisions, decisions that
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: they're... they've already made or actions they're gonna do anyway.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say that's the default.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, it's a little bit concerning for me for this person.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a few more sections to go, actually.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is a short one.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, let's move on to "what you get" and "education and experience level."
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the next things.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And experience level is interesting that it's right at the end and it wasn't part of, you
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: know, must have or nice to have.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little bit odd.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: What you get:
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Options from the company's option pool and a competitive salary on top.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: For the right person, this is a real opportunity to earn a significant amount, way above
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: the norm.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: As I will ask full ownership of you, I will give full transparency even before we sign to
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: discuss traction, cap table, pipeline, etc, as well as the steepest learning curve I can
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: offer.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: They've mentioned the steep learning curve before.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Next is education.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Masters in business, economics, engineering, or equivalent with strong academic results.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Education is less important than a documented track record of analytical work at a high
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: standard.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then they go on to experience level.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Six plus years combining top-tier analytical work with startup exposure.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for someone early in their career, but already demonstrably ahead of their
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: peers and who will grow into a senior position as the company scales.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's actually signed by the individual's name and says Founder and CEO.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: So here's where we see: that's who is narrating this job ad.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is the entire job ad and looking for your thoughts on as a refresher, what you
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: get, education and experience level.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean in the what you get part.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like options...
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, options are sexy.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Options make everybody think that they're gonna be like a multi-bazillionaire after
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: everything works out just fine and dandy.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: But, options...
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: when you're... evaluating an offer on what you want to do, don't trade off
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: a lower salary for options, because options are practically meaningless.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: A lot has to go right
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: for options to actually turn into tangible value for you, the employee.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Your options are going to be diluted over time with each additional fundraise.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what your options are worth is going to dwindle and dwindle and dwindle and dwindle and
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: dwindle.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: If in 20 years this company went public or did an M&A or something, you know, your options
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: that you thought were going to be amazing could be worth 1,000 euros, 5,000 euros, who
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: cares?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you're going to trade off a whole lot more than that in the
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: meantime, because you think that they're going to make you rich.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: So options, options are dumb.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: They hardly ever work out.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's something else that they said in here that on one hand, I will applaud them for
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's something else that they said in here that on one hand, I will applaud them for
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: being incredibly honest.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the most honest that a job ad has ever been about this.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they say something to the effect of...
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: "Because I will require full ownership of you, we need to..." and I forget what it was, like...
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: have a conversation or something, or set whatever.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can you can you actually read that out again?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: as I will ask full ownership of you, I will give full transparency even before we sign to
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: discuss traction, cap table, pipeline, etc.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the most honest that I've ever seen a job ad be when it comes to "you
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: will be on call 24/7,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: I will own your life and you will have absolutely no peace and personal time."
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this is saying.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is as honest as any job ad has ever been about that.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I will give them points for that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the other side of it is... it's kind of bullsh*t.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: there are people who do want that, who like that.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fine.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing against them.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: But what I can tell you from experience, because I've been down that road before, is that...
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years later, it does not... it doesn't get you anywhere.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: You are no better off for all of the extra time that you put in than you would have
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: otherwise been.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Corporations are extractive by nature, it's just what they are.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, go into it eyes wide open, knowing that.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: The education thing, there were
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: conflicting statements on that.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: they say, I want someone early career.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying you want someone early career who has an MBA and six years experience.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: that's not exactly early career, I
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: would say that's a little bit of a strange statement to make.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're also saying that education doesn't really matter all that much to you.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: What matters to you is experience.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Then why the f*ck are you asking for an MBA?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're being dumb.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: These are all the things that I noted as well.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, sorry, go on, go on.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was my last point.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've ranted enough about this part.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: The transparency is meaningful here.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they're actually saying, before you even sign, I'm gonna show you the cap table,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: that helps with... to mitigate a little bit of what you mentioned, because yeah, the more
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: people come in, the more shares they have, then the more diluted those shares become, more
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: people have a piece of the pie.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're gonna show you the cap table.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: before you sign, I hope that that's true.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is cool.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I also kind of like that, but I don't think it's as meaningful at this stage as it
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: might otherwise
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: be.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cause they've they've closed, they said that they closed a two point six million euro
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: round.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: that's a very, very small round, even for Europe.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very small round.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a very small Series A or pre-seed or whatever else,
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: for a defense tech company.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Cause this industry is very capitally-intensive.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that 2.6 million is not going to go very far.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna need more money.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna need a whole lot more coin flowing into their bank account.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: So seeing the cap table before you sign like now, September twenty-third or whatever, is
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: like... it's cool.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then the cap table is gonna change in six months.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a lot more money come in.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the capital and...
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: and you're right, like it is again, kudos to them for raising that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's like at some venture funds, that's maybe a follow-on investment amount.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah...
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nothing amount of money.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I... one of my notes too was that early career, what they're describing is not early
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: career.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I go back to saying hire the COO first and then fill in the gaps with this person.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: they say education is less important, but then they say that they want like a master of
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: science with strong academic results.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's also conflicting.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't matter, then why?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they're also saying we want to see your transcripts of your educational
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: transcripts.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: part of what is glaringly omitted here is the fact that they say "what you get"
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole package is basically equity, amazing salary, above the norm
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: salary, transparency and growth.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Trial by fire growth.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there are... there's nothing about PTO, about benefits, hours.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing about that.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Allowances.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I could go on and on.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is... what is the masters that they asked for in education again?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Refresh my memory.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: master of science in business, economics, engineering, or equivalent.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're saying that it's less important than a documented record of analytical
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: work at a high standard.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: What would that look like to you?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm very curious, what do you think, how does that show up?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: How what is the documented track record of analytical work at a high standard?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a... that's a very nebulous statement.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you document a track record of success in analytical work or whatever?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you show work product from a previous employer?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's troubling.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what they expect?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just not saying it because it's a little bit troubling and unethical.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: The I keep fixating on the Master of Science thing.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is a Master of Science necessary?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well maybe this is a Swedish thing.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is this like a Swedish education thing versus
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe, yeah, could be, could be a difference.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like for a role like this, as they've kind of described it, if I was looking for
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: somebody with a master's degree, like I would look for somebody with an MBA.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: because that's more relevant, I think, to administering and building the operations of a
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: business than having an economics degree is.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: An economics degree is not going to prepare you for something like this.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: The educational requirement, it's kind of goofy the way that it's written.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that that was thought through very well.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that... they mentioned "the steepest learning curve I
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: can possibly give you."
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they're basically saying, as a benefit, that having a really
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: challenging job is part of the benefits package.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so funny to me.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny to me.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: At least they didn't
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: say "you'll learn more here in six months than you would in 16 years somewhere else."
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's another one that we hear
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: all the time.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: These are... we need to do a year-end recap of
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: the patterns, what are the most common kind of like little axioms or terms or
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: whatever that we found.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: like I said, it's signed by the Founder and CEO.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: and then I want to add that there's nothing else.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's no salary listed.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: There there are no other statements.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it ends.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when I click on apply, this is where I find it interesting.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you go to apply and it's just basic.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: You just enter your resume and your cover letter.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm finding now, I think
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: you are too, increasingly that the application process itself is becoming more cumbersome.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're asking more questions than they're asking questions you would expect in a
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: first-round interview.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I get maybe people are trying to save time for themselves, but it becomes... it's a
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: lot for candidates.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you apply, here are some of the questions that show up.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Motivation, what's your core motivation and drive?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Be honest.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know how to best help you succeed.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of work to ask someone to answer just that question alone.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying they're coming at it from a place, and I believe them, that they want to
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: help you succeed.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what are your motivating factors?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you can ask that during the interview, please, not during the application.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Another question—"Failure.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: In one sentence, what led to a failure for you in the past?"
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Be honest, we need to know so we can help prevent in the future.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: In one sentence, first month, briefly, what would be your key prioritizations and output
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: during the first month if you got the job?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then location.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: What city and country do you currently live in?
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: relocation required.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Would you be open to relocating to Stockholm, Sweden?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it says not a must.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, it's required to answer that question.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a must to relocate.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: They want to know if you would.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then it asks for your LinkedIn profile as part of the application.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: So what are your thoughts on those types
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: of questions in the in the application itself versus saving them for the interview?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of split.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: I do... putting on my hiring manager, you know, leadership executive hat
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: for a minute.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm truly invested in hiring a person who is going to be a good match for
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: what I think I need and for the culture of the organization, I do like to know
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: more about people before an interview.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: I almost look at it as preparation for the interview, so that I can have a
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: robust, useful conversation with someone at some point during the interview
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: process.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of like this stuff ahead of time for
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: prep, but I don't think they're asking the right questions.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: These questions are a little bit... they're a little bit open-ended.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about how I would use them,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: to guide the interview process and to get some context and understanding about a
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: person.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really match those two things.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think these questions would help me with that.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, I'm okay with the process that they're employing.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think they picked the wrong questions.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: these questions are gonna add anything to the process.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just go back to how much work it is to ask someone to briefly cover what their
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: key prioritizations and output would be during the first month of the job.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to answer that question.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's unfair to ask that in the application process.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere down the road in the interview process, okay.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not only is it like a full-on research project for the applicant, but then to also
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: briefly summarize that and still feel like you have a chance at
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: articulating yourself well enough to go through the screening process and get the
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: interview, like that's a lot of
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: work.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is a lot to ask for someone just to apply for the role.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: and again, this is pretty much why we do this show, because the job ad and even the
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: application process tells you nearly everything you need to know about what it's gonna be
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: like working at this organization.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: If that's what they're asking, that heavy lift just for the application, then it you're
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: you got a lot of work ahead of you.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're at the point now...
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: So pardon me for being very distracting. That's the job ad.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give you a few minutes to read the job ad.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: In its entirety, and then come back with your opinion.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just throw this in our chat here.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: we can't really guess the salary, though I would say that you would
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: probably need about $110,000 a year, Canadian, to live in Stockholm.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Stockholm's a capital city, it's fairly expensive.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd need to be pulling in like 30,000 Swedish krona a month to make that work.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is this company going to pay that?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's another factor.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: They sound confident that they're offering a lot, but again, a lot of times they try to
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: sell you on those options when really, you...
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: you mentioned something, sorry, you mentioned something that I wanted to touch on, which
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: was that the shares, blah blah blah, they expect you to like basically own the act as
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: though you're an owner, they're gonna own like blah blah blah.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: When you give that much of yourself, you can't walk it back afterwards.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you decide at some point you're gonna have a family or something happens in your life
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: you need to caretake or whatever, you can't walk that commitment back, because they
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: have now, the organization, gotten used to... they've operationalized your commitment.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you try to walk that back, the company is screwed, you're screwed, now you look
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: like you're not performing.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: and all sorts of things impact our ability to fully commit to an organization.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also really high risk and plays into the whole burnout thing.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Paul, short intermission, you're gonna take a read of the job ad in full, and when
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: we return, we will give our final ratings.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have returned.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hi.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: You are back.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was an evil laugh.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Paul is back.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've had an opportunity to read the job ad in full.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like we mentioned, covered most of it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: There I think at some point there was an intention for us just to like pull out relevant
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: pieces, but I think the problem with job ads is that they really need to be like ingested
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: as a whole thing.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the full picture.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've kind of walked that back a little bit.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: but I would like to know what your rating is out of ten for the job ad itself, which as
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: a reminder for listeners, that's how it's written, what's included, transparency, red
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: flags, green flags, separate from the role design.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so job ad out of ten, what you got for us?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this one was... after reading it through, it sounded, when we were talking about
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: it, the job ad sounded pretty darn good when we were just having a boo and chit-chatting
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: about it.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: After reading it through, I still kind of look at it favourably, but there are
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: definitely things in here that that knock it down a peg or two in my mind.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do like the structure.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like the structure of what they've created here.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the templating, like the way that they're choosing to communicate through
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: the structure of the job, that is... it's pretty darn good.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't really make a lot of changes there.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: there also is, like, the founder definitely wrote this themself.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are definitely Swedish, and they did not get someone who's a native English speaker
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: to to read through it and proofread it, which is fine.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not saying you have to do that, but the pattern of language here is very Swedish.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like people who speak English as a second language from Sweden.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of the nuances woven throughout this and the way that they communicate in
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: English.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, yeah, a Swede *absolutely* wrote this.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually made me a little bit... a little bit, kind of fond and miss Europe a little
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: bit because I used
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: to work with quite a few Swedish folks and had conversation with them and whatnot.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this the pattern of language reminds me of that a little bit.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: We won't hold that against them, you know, it is what it is.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: But they could have given this a bit of a proofread to improve how it was written.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: There are things in here that have started to make a little bit of sense to me.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: But first reading on the job ad.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Six out of ten.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was okay.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was okay.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: I like the structure.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that that I don't like about this and how they've communicated about it.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, six out of ten.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Dock them points for a few things on the job ad.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am more critical, much more critical now, especially having read through this.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: The job, the job design, the role design.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I would really give this a three out of ten for the role design.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of structure missing.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot missing in what this job actually is.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: What they've kind of outlined here is...
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have a job, you're going to work for us, and we'll figure out what that
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: entails at some point in the future.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: But when you start... like every week, you're going to be putting out fires.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not designing a role proactively.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's not looking ahead.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's not thinking about what you truly need to be successful as an organization.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: that's just putting a body in a seat.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't quite dig that so much.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that stuck out in particular is, and now I understand why they're saying that
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: they want a
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: person to have two years at like an investment bank or a private equity firm or something
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: else comparable to that.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: They say in the job ad that one of the things that you're going to be doing is preparing
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: and driving the next round of fundraising.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you're going to be very, very closely involved in like bringing in more money to fund
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: the firm, which we kind of clocked
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to need to do that, because
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: 2.6 million euros is not gonna keep this thing going for very long.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: so this person's gonna come into this role, they're gonna do the fundraise lead with the
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: CEO, and then they'll just kind of figure out all the other pesky little things as
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: they go, the operational, business-building things.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's all secondary, the way that this job ad reads.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like very secondary building the business, first order of priority, get
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: more money in.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it'll be kind of an interesting dynamic, because you will see the cap table when you
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: start.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you will watch the value of your options diminish as you work on the fundraise
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: and bring in more money.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: So in real time, like you'll be seeing the value of those options just dwindle away as you
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: go.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: And too bad, so sad.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I agree with both of your assessments.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for the job ad itself, I gave it a seven out of ten.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: because I think that it's really good and you touched on this too.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of transparency.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really good at telling you what you're actually signing up for.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you have to read behind... read between the bullet points a lot less than
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: you would in most of the job ads.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: the Founder's personality, expectations, company stage, ambition.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Operating philosophy.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's visible.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is right there.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I would much rather see this than three paragraphs of like "fast-paced and innovative
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: environment."
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it provides concrete evidence of traction.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: it describes the work rather than like general, vague, generic competencies.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: it loses points on for me for things like "top 1%" and
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: some of the contradictions saying education is less important, but then the Master of
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Science requirement loses points... for not saying a comp range despite saying that the pay
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: is way above the norm.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, show, don't tell, please.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then some vague valuation language as well.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be tighter in that respect.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, I might...
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want this job, but I know enough about it to make
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: that decision.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, that's very successful for a job ad.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: It, you know, it doesn't say working conditions, benefits, hours, vacation, and all of
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: that stuff.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really big deal.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe we just don't know enough about working in Sweden.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe some of that stuff is just baked in...
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: but they are speaking in part to an international audience, right?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: They are talking about... we want to relocate.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or we want you to relocate if you're chosen, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, tell us that you're open to that.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that signals that they know that they may have to to import somebody for this role.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that person's not necessarily going to be versed in the Swedish labour
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: market and what things are that are normal in Sweden.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they should have added that to the job ad, but they didn't.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, I agree.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: what's left out of a job ad is just as
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: important as what is put into
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: a job ad.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: possibly they don't want to talk about those other benefits and vacation PTO things like
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: that, because they're hoping that you just commit yourself fully to this role and that
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: that's not as important to you.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be one of those tests that some companies do where if you ask about
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: that, then they're clocking that.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're like... that they're asking about vacation.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: asking about vacation, which means that they want to take a lot of vacation and so that's
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: a strike against them.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: All sorts of things that companies do.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: Role design, similar to you, I gave a four out of ten.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there is a very compelling role underneath all of this, but I think that
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: there are no structural boundaries, wide range of skill sets, and I think that if
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's a stepping stone that you are expected to outgrow,
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: but they're also saying, they say themselves that this is a very similar role to COO, with
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: seniority being the main difference, then what is that
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: stepping stone?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: So for role design, that's just... as I mentioned, the experience gap between the two
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: roles is is basically... one is six plus, versus eight plus years.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: and so where is this person growing into?
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about,
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know, fundraising and things like that.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: that's a skill set that I don't think that they put enough emphasis on in the job ad
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: itself.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge undertaking to be able to do that, to get board decks and pitches and all
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: of this stuff ready.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah... managing a data room?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: a
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't even talk about that here.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so... yeah.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a trajectory, they're selling trajectory, but there is no clear
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: destination.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so where does this job end?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: What does this person actually own versus the COO?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: If they're expected to outgrow, then what are the rest of the stepping stones?
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it got a lower, like a four out of ten for me.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I gave points just because there's something really compelling about it.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do like it.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: I like that the CEO wrote it.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that we could go in and give them some tips.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: First and foremost, hire the COO first.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't look like on their team they have a finance person either.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks like they don't have anyone with a very clear set expertise in finance, which
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think would be exceptionally helpful.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's my final rating.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: This post is roasted.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everybody.