Latest / The Layback Podcast / Aiden May, Miami Marlins Pitcher (Ep. 47)

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Aiden May, Miami Marlins Pitcher (Ep. 47) · The Layback Podcast

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Lay Back podcast.
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Joining us today is Aiden May Aiden was the 70th overall draft
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pick to the Miami Marlins this past year.
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We would say second round comp something not entirely sure
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exactly where that falls, but 70th is a good enough number to
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go off of. He didn't get any innings with
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them after a massive workload at Oregon State, and he was
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certainly an accomplished pitcher there with a few other
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stops in his college career along the way, including Arizona
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and Pima Community College. So before I butcher anything
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more than I already have, I'm going to toss it over to Aiden
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so you can talk a little bit more about his bio.
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Awesome. Yeah, Thanks, Adam.
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That was a pretty good job already.
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So I guess to touch on that, I'm from a small little town in, in
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New Mexico called Tijeras. I mean, not even really there.
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I'm from the middle of nowhere, but basically Albuquerque.
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And I grew up pitching at altitudes, not very fun, but
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growing up in New Mexico was fun.
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I've got to pitch a lot and play baseball a lot.
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And like, that's just been my, the story of my life so far is
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just baseball, baseball, baseball.
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And like you kind of touched on, I've been, I've been around the
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block a little bit all over the place and I've had a great
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career so far. And I look forward to what's to
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come next. But I head out for spring
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training, so I'm looking forward to that.
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And shame on me, I suppose. I buried maybe the most
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important person in this entire process, Tim Campos.
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We probably wouldn't be here right now talking if it wasn't
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for Tim. Definitely not.
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Tim has been a great foundation for, yeah, a lot of my
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experience within baseball and a lot of my, I guess, production
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so far. And the way that I kind of
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attacked the game, I always say that he kind of got me started
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on being really process driven in the way that I attack
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everything and really opened my mind up to the more complex and
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analytical side of baseball that I I never really saw when I was
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a kid. Obviously you're just going out
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there and throwing. You don't know anything about
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the specifics of baseball or anything.
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And he's been awesome so far. And that has been a great
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connection for us too. For sure.
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When did you first step foot in? Albuquerque Baseball Academy.
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I mean, I played with ABA growing up a lot.
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It was kind of just it's, it's been the, the staple program of
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Albuquerque for however many years.
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I mean, a bunch of big leaguers have come through here, like
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Bregman's obviously the, the big one you've got Mitch Carver and
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Blake's Wyheart was a huge one. Those guys have been in and
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around the program for forever. And so if you want to play high
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level baseball in in Albuquerque, that's kind of the
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the place to go. But compos didn't actually join
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ABA until my, what would that be?
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My, my freshman year of high school.
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And then so I started working with him maybe freshman summer
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going into sophomore year. In the power arm, you were part
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of the original power arm group. Oh.
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Yeah, that was a that was a fun little group.
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We, we didn't know, we compost knew, knew what he was doing.
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But it's, it's so much different than it is today.
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And it's kind of fun to look back on on those times.
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How many draft picks, not even college guys, but draft picks
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were in that original power arm group.
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I don't know. There's probably, I want to say
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five of us, but there, I mean, compos has had his hands in so
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many different areas. It's, it's hard for me to say
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because there's probably more somewhere filled in there
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actually 6/6 that really stand out.
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And there's probably more than that even.
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But there's, there's been a lot of us through the years and he's
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done a tremendous job getting guys, not just a pro ball, but
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just to any, any level of baseball.
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The amount of Division One commits and college guys that
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have gone through there is I, I couldn't even put a number on
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it. So it's it's been a really good
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program. Which is why I asked to go the
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draft route because I figured we could at least have some sort of
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tangible number as opposed to me asking you about the college
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guys. And you'd say, shoot, probably.
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I don't know every kid that was in the program.
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The fact that you guys had six kids get drafted out of the same
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workout group when you were a freshman in high school is
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insane. Yeah, there there was a I guess
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to be more specific, it wasn't just like my age group, it
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wasn't just like my freshman, but there was, you know, other
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guys and across the board, but there's been more guys than I
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can count and there's coming through the pipeline.
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I mean some of the the kids in high school right now that
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compost is working with I mean just just straight up studs.
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So it's it's really cool to see the progression of that and like
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for for me to have, I guess the the beginning stages of that and
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like some to the effect of maybe inspiring or help in the future
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group is is kind of cool to me because I want to have my part
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in helping New Mexico baseball. You become nationally recognized
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and and a people to to understand what what it is we do
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here. For sure, yeah.
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You look at Major League Baseball and it's got guys,
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notable guys from the state. And obviously Mitchell Parker
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stepped on the scene this year. He's another guy from the
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facility who really is making a name for Albuquerque baseball,
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and I know you, Jacob and a few others are following suit.
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Hopefully you guys get your call here shortly.
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But let's run through the career a little bit.
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I don't know if you want to talk through the high school career
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at all or really just pick up with the UCL tear going into
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your senior year. You tell me where you want to
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start this journey. I'll give a little background of
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just kind of my, my whole high school career.
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So like I said, I started working with compost going into
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really my sophomore year. And that fall I started doing it
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was the first time I really did like AV low targeted program
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that fall. I I was maybe low 80s to touch
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in like an 8485 maybe on the spring was a little tick above
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that, maybe 85 to 87 on on my best day.
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And then I really started to to grow a little bit and I started
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to throw harder. The V low came really quick.
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My junior summer I hit 88 for the first time.
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The very next weekend I hit 89 out of the bullpen and then I
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made a start a couple days later and I hit 90 for the first time.
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So it was a very rapid growth. And unfortunately in that time I
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also I had my UCL tear, which looking back on it, it was, it
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was probably expected. I was maybe 160 lbs, like maybe
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59510 and just a wiry like I was just, I was very high effort and
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I threw the piss out of it, but it wasn't very sustainable,
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let's say. And so I, I tore the, I tore my
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UCLI did a lot of rehab. And at that time it was, it was
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when PRP was kind of really new. So I opted to go the PRP route
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because it was just a partial tear.
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I'm looking back on it now knowing the medical stuff of, of
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some of the PRP injections don't work for certain types of tears
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in, in the different bundles of the UCL.
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Looking back, I probably should have just opted to get surgery
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at the time, but hindsight's 2020 and you you figure things
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out. I rehabbed the the PRP for a
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good 5-6 months. I came back, that was my junior
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year, which was Kovid. And so I pitched like a couple
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innings and then the world shut down and I had to just like
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throw in the street. And like I said, I'm from the
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mountains. So like I was in the middle of
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nowhere trying to get my throwing in, trying to do stuff.
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And then once the facility opened back up, I threw a couple
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bullpens with real intent. And the second I started to get
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some real intent behind it again, it just blew out.
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Looking back on it, like I said, I was, I was a ticking time bomb
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because the PRP just just didn't work for those types of tears.
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And it was probably more significant than we originally
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thought. And so I should have just opted
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for surgery, but it is what it is.
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So anyway, I ended up getting surgery and then that was, I
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think, a very pivotal decision and a pivotal moment in my, my
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career because I sat there and I, I'd always worked hard.
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I'd always done the right things and, and really got after in the
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gym, but I wasn't very intentional with the work that I
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was doing. So maybe I was really focused on
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the, the flashy stuff. I guess we'll see.
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Lifting big weight, throwing really hard and I didn't really
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do the things in order to protect myself from the injuries
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that plagued me so far. So I swore to myself, I said,
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I'm going to be very intentional, very specific and
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attack this in the right way. And lucky enough to have
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somebody like like Tim, like like coach Compos in my corner
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helping me through everything was was unbelievable.
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We we worked with a person, his name is Casey Mulholland, who's
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one of the the best workload management people in the
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business. I mean he understands workload
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more than more than anybody. And Compos worked with him to
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kind of create and he took his return to throw program and we
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we tailored it and specified it to whatever I was doing.
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It was very Velo specific, which is a lot different than other
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programs where distance specific.
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And so every throw that I had was tracked with a pocket radar
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and I was tracked with pulse. So I had workload going back
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months and months and months. All of my work in the gym was
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very specified, was very intentful.
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I was working on getting my lower half bigger, getting my
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body in general, just bigger. I focused hugely on shoulder
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strength, strengthening my forearm.
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I had a great physical therapist as well.
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And so I mean, just throughout the process, I had so many
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people behind me. I guess I'll touch saying
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another big benefit was I had a ton of time.
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So given when the tear was, I had over a year and a half
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before I needed to be in real game scenarios anymore.
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It went fantastic. I mean, Compass and I were very,
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like I said, intentional and everything was tracked and
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everything was managed and it came out very well.
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I was throwing harder than ever during that time.
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I was committed to a Division One school called Wichita State,
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but for various reasons with COVID having older guys coming
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back and me being injured, they took away my scholarship And so
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I went the junior college route, which was the best decision I
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could have made. I, I went to Pima Community
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College and those guys were just fantastic.
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Coach Hockney does a tremendous job and he gave me all the
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resources and all the time and, and the management in the world
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to just be successful. And so I don't know if you want
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to step in or you want me to keep going to the college
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section. No, that's a, that's probably a
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good spot to pause for a minute. So there's a few things that we
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can speak on. Yep, the fact that you even
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learned who PR PS are for and who they're not for, I'm sure
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that was more of a hindsight learning process than it was in
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the moment, but that's, that's a massive piece.
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I, I don't know the last time we covered that on the podcast, but
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it's probably worth bringing up again, simply, if you have a
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distal tear, you're probably not going to get a lot of benefit
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from PRP injection helping with the tear.
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So it needs to be partial and it needs to be proximal if you're
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going to have pretty much any good outcome from it.
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BRB is not going to be bad. It just might be a waste, which
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is obviously what you ran into yourself.
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So the, the fact that you covered that I, I think is very
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helpful. So other people that are trying
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to avoid surgery, they just know whether PRP is a safe or
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productive route. Then moving on.
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It's great you brought up Casey. Casey, friend of the program,
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guest of the podcast. They always love when he gets a
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shout out. There's no question he's put in
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more work than just about anyone when it comes to not only return
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to throw, but like you said, acute to chronic workload ratio
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and shifting the paradigm a little bit from just throwing on
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feel or distance to actually tracking it with actionable
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information. So there's no question you had a
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bunch of people in your corner. I appreciate you letting me get
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back in the mix here. Just summarize a few things or
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call a few things out. But yeah, if you want to pick
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right back up with Pima and maybe how you landed on Pima or
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the opportunities that you had coming out of there because you
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were only there for one year, correct?
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Yeah, it was and that was kind of the intent from the start.
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And, and I, I give a ton of credit to coach Hockney.
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I've had a lot of friends that they go to junior college
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programs and the coach is going to hold them back their freshman
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year. So that way they can keep them
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for two years and obviously then go on to Division One schools
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and whatever. But coach Hockney from the
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start, I guess he, he just was like, you know what, we're we
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understand you're going to be here for one year.
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We just want to help you do what you're going to do and then send
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you off and, and wish you the best of luck.
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And so I give him so much credit and then he, he really was a, a
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very beneficial coach to me. I guess the connection there and
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why I chose Pima is he used to be the UNM pitching coach.
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And so he has huge ties to New Mexico and a lot of my coaches
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and, and they recruit heavily to, to the state.
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And so I had a bunch of buddies that were going there too.
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I got to live with, you know, three of my really, really good
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friends my freshman year. And so it was just kind of like
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the, the perfect situation, I guess, for me coming off of an
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injury, even somebody that I had a connection with and that I
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could stamp my, my name on, on what I needed to do and what I
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needed to take care of. And then I want to say it was
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all sunshine and rainbows, but it was actually a really tough
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year when it comes to like statistics.
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But I guess it was just coming off injury having this like
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this, this high octane Velo that I'd never had before.
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My stuff was bigger, it was louder and my command was just
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brutal. It was just it was terrible.
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I don't even want to give a number on my walks per nine, but
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it was up there. Once again, credit to coach Hawk
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me. He he came up to me one day and
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he goes, you know what? We're going to stick by you like
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we, we know once it clicks, it's going to click and we're just
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going to roll with you. And towards the second-half of
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the year, my, my strikeouts went up, my walks went down.
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I was able to feel out the ball a lot more and just get my feel
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for the mound back, which was tough because that, that first
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stretch of the year, the first half of the year was, I mean, it
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felt like I didn't know what, what to do.
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I didn't know how to attack the problem because my stuff was
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there. My arm felt great.
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My body was sinking well, but something just wasn't clicking
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on the command and the control side of things.
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And so I think it was just just about getting on the mound and
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just just making more throws, getting used to my body more.
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I'd gained a lot of weight, strong weight, but I wasn't
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skinny anymore. I was very bulky.
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So getting used to that, getting used to how I was moving, the
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new velocity, the new movement and everything just took, took
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time. And so I, I, I attribute a lot
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of my, my late success and a lot of my future ability to kind of
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work through problems to, to the way that could talk to me, gave
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me the opportunity to keep battling through and keep
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figuring out and problem solving.
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You kind of stole the question right from me and answered it.
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I was going to ask what you credit the issue to, but it
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sounds like it was just exposure.
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You just needed exposure to live situations, game batters.
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And yes you had this long runway to get ready again.
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But I've had this conversation time and time again with
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pitchers. There is nothing like game
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competition. Yes, you can get completely
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dialed off the field. You can nail your weight, your
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Velo, all these things. But when a hitter steps in the
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box, the lights come on. It's different.
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And that command sometimes just isn't there.
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And for you, you really think it just came from seeing hitters
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over and over and over again, having that long leash to get
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comfortable? I mean, that was definitely the
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first piece of it and I was kind of going to wait to go on to
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this because my time at Arizona, a lot of command problems also
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followed me as well. But that was the first step, I
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will say in fixing and attacking the command problems was just
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comfortability and getting back on the mound.
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And then from there, I guess I'll just go right into this.
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So I committed, I committed to the University of Arizona, went
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to, I went to U of A after that and my stuff took a big jump up.
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I mean, I just had filthy, nasty stuff.
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But once again, the command problems just just followed me.
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It definitely wasn't as extensive as it as it was at the
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beginning of the Pima season, but it was definitely still
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there. Quick time out.
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I apologize. How hard?
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How hard were you throwing during these different times?
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So my freshman year at Pima, I was up to, I'll say 97, but that
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was, that was really another change, I guess was at Pima.
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It was like always, the first inning was like, let's gas out
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out of the metal and I'm, I'm sitting like 96 in the first
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inning. And then the innings after that
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would go down and I'd probably settle in about 9293, which for
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me was another issue of like not burning the, the tank too quick.
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And something that I, I've finished in subsequent years at
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Arizona, I was probably more in like the 92 to 95 range once
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again, up to sixes and sevens. But really once again, it was,
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it was more of a command issue than anything.
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The stuff was always there and I got opportunities to start at
15:47
Arizona. I was the Sunday guy all year
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pretty much aside from like one weekend when I was still, I was
15:51
the midweek guy at the very start of the year.
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And then like 2 weekends in, Sunday guy got hurt.
15:56
I jumped in that role and I had a lot of ups and downs.
15:59
I had a lot of really good starts and I had a lot of
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really, really rough starts. And a lot of that was when you
16:04
even look at the numbers, the walks weren't crazy, but it was
16:07
always like 1 inning. I'd have like three walks or two
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walks. And so the totals for the game
16:12
would equal maybe what you would consider normal amounts that
16:15
weren't anything crazy. But the blow up innings were,
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were really big and tough to sort through.
16:20
My my time in Arizona. I have a lot of great things to
16:22
say about the program. Like I have a lot of really good
16:23
friends there and they they do they did a tremendous job, but
16:26
for for certain reasons, it just wasn't quite the right fit for
16:30
me, like culturally and the way that I wanted to get my work, I
16:34
wasn't able to really, I guess tinker would be the right word
16:38
and try to fix things and problem solve.
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And it it seemed like I was just kind of stuck.
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And so I wanted to change of pace.
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And so I entered the portal. I'm to go find a new opportunity
16:48
and my best friend in the world who I played with in high
16:50
school, who is all American and played at Oregon State.
16:53
So he's a two year starter at this point at Oregon State.
16:56
He's been there Saturday guy, His name is Jacob Kamath and him
16:59
and I talked and just the the way that he spoke about the
17:02
program and the way that he spoke about it for years at this
17:04
point was just, you know, such an emphasis on development, such
17:07
an emphasis on culture and like finding and figuring out your
17:10
own identity. And so to me, that just had all
17:13
the makings of everything I was looking for in a program.
17:15
And then I was able to be very intentional with the changes and
17:19
the process that I wanted to make.
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So my first point of attack with all of that was getting
17:24
consistent pitch shapes. So in the past, like I said, my
17:27
stuff was loud, but it was very inconsistent.
17:30
I had kind of a bad inefficient cuddy for seam.
17:34
My changeup was was good metrically me, but my command of
17:36
it was kind of. And then I had this cutter thing
17:39
that was all over the map and then my slider has been my bread
17:42
and butter. That was really the only
17:43
consistent pitch that I had to this point.
17:46
Going back to the drawing board, I was like, all right, we're
17:48
done with this 4 seam. I'm gonna throw a seam shift
17:52
syncher and I'm just gonna go for it.
17:55
I tried to build out like a new shape for the cutter, which I
17:58
ended up scrapping later and just simplifying.
18:00
But the change up was there, the sweeper was there, the sinker
18:03
was there. And so getting consistent pitch
18:05
shapes and then two, just simplifying my approach.
18:08
I tried to be so specific with like everyone always talks about
18:11
command, command, command. And some pitchers are able to do
18:13
it. They're able to look at, I'm
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going to hit this down and away to a righty every single time.
18:18
They're just going to land it there, land it with there.
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And that just wasn't something that was really feasible for me.
18:23
So I simplified. I said every pitch I'm going to
18:25
throw is going to be right down the middle and I'm going to let
18:27
it work. Maybe with certain changes to
18:29
that if I had two strikes or I had whatever it might be, but it
18:32
was just simplify, simplify, simplify, get the stuff to where
18:35
it's so good that I can just throw it down the middle and let
18:38
it work and I don't have to worry about being perfect.
18:40
So that was the biggest thing. The other thing was like I said,
18:42
my velocity was good, but it wasn't elite.
18:45
And so my biggest thing was getting my velocity floor up.
18:48
You know, I knew my Max velos were fine, but I wanted to have
18:50
an A harder average Velo. I think at Arizona I averaged
18:53
like 92.7 or something like that, like just shy of 93, maybe
18:56
right around 93. And then this last year I
18:58
averaged 94.6. So getting my Velo floor up and
19:02
my, my Max Velo took a step up as well.
19:05
I hit 98.5, I want to say, but it was really more about that
19:09
average velocity, you know, just just being more consistent,
19:11
being able to hold my velocity later in games and just be
19:15
better overall. So that that was kind of my, my
19:17
thought process and kudos to everybody at Oregon State.
19:20
I mean, I, I loved everything about that program and they gave
19:22
me all the opportunity in the world.
19:24
Coach Cannon and Coach Doorman are two of my best coaches I've
19:27
ever had, and they stuck by me. They helped me.
19:29
They did everything they could to set us up for success.
19:32
And I owe a lot of my success to them.
19:34
And just the culture and the impact that that program has, I
19:36
mean, it's unrivaled. It's, it's, it's a fantastic
19:39
place to be. So we can take a few pauses, I
19:44
suppose, on the Oregon State topic because there's a lot to
19:48
unpack. The really cool opportunity you
19:50
get to play with your high school best friend.
19:52
Yeah, Matt's had already been there.
19:54
So is he he the one that started the recruiting process for you?
19:58
Were you even considering Oregon State or was this just from him
20:02
from the get go? Well.
20:04
So. I had, I had kind of talk, I
20:06
mean, like, like I said, him and I are really good friends.
20:08
So even throughout the year, like we were talking and I was
20:11
like, I was telling him some of the, the issues that I was
20:14
having, like, man, I just can't figure stuff out.
20:16
And so I think in the back of his mind, he's like, well, if if
20:19
Aiden enters the portal, then let's then then think about
20:21
that. And so I didn't even like
20:22
approach him about the subject. So I entered the portal because
20:26
I wanted to go to like, I felt like Oregon State would have
20:28
been a good place. I wanted to go there, but I
20:30
didn't want to like barge in on him and be like, hey, man.
20:33
And so I actually didn't say anything to him.
20:35
He then after I entered the portal was like, well, man, are
20:38
you are you considering OSU? And I was like, well, yeah, I
20:42
didn't want to, I didn't want to barge in, but of course, dude.
20:45
And so that that whole situation ended up working, really working
20:49
out really well after I entered the portal and we him and I sat
20:52
down and we were talking about everything in the program.
20:54
I had a couple calls with the coaches and it just seemed like
20:57
the right fit. And a big part of that was to
20:59
like, every time you're getting recruited, it's always going to
21:02
be the flashy stuff and coaches are trying to get to you there.
21:04
And like, that's stuff is true, but you can't see the true
21:08
skeleton of the program unless somebody in there you have
21:10
somebody that you trust. And so Jacob, him and I talked
21:13
and I asked him a bunch of hard hitting questions about what
21:15
the, what the culture's like, what the program's like.
21:18
And he was straight up about everything.
21:19
And so having somebody that's super honest about the goings on
21:22
in a program is, is really tough to deny the the the special
21:27
specialness of that, I guess. And then you also mentioned
21:31
Oregon State gave you that wiggle room to tinker and kind
21:35
of figure things out. So was that a hands on process
21:40
from Dorman and the coaching staff or was that just let's
21:43
step away and we'll let Aiden work for a bit?
21:46
It was a it was a great mix of that.
21:48
And like I said, the coaches were fantastic because doorman
21:51
door is, is, is awesome, knows a lot of stuff that I don't.
21:54
But what what's great is I feel like I have a really good
21:56
knowledge base, especially when it comes to pitch design and
21:59
when it comes to to my pitch design and my workings on as a
22:02
pitcher specifically. And then doorman would come in
22:05
and he would add in little things that he thought were were
22:08
beneficial to me. And we would kind of go back and
22:10
forth and just have conversations and figure a lot
22:13
of this stuff out. And when I said that I had a lot
22:15
of leeways, like I kind of went to them in the fall and I was
22:17
like, hey, like, I'm just going to try a bunch of stuff.
22:20
We're going to work on a lot of stuff.
22:21
And they were like, yeah, like, we don't, we don't care about
22:23
fall numbers, but we're here to win in the spring.
22:25
And so just to have that idea of like, they're going to ride with
22:28
me. Like I'm going to be able to
22:29
start. I'm going to have the
22:30
opportunity to start at least. And also have the opportunity to
22:33
tinker and work through things and really figure out my, my
22:36
identity as a pitcher in the fall was, was huge and
22:38
beneficial. And like, like I said, I mean,
22:40
we just have a ton of conversations and go back and
22:42
forth and eventually come to what we figured was was
22:45
hopefully the right answer. Speaking of the tinkering, you
22:49
talked about your pitch shapes and your arsenal.
22:53
How different was that from your, I guess you're should have
22:59
been ideal arsenal either prior to TJ or coming off of TJ.
23:04
You mentioned that you you switched to more of the seam
23:07
shift sinker. Your slider is your bread and
23:09
butter. Changeup always had the shape,
23:11
but it was about dialing it in and having the weird cutter
23:14
thing. But prior to that you had like
23:17
the weird Cutty fastball. Had this always been the optimal
23:21
profile for you and it was just a matter of finding it, or do
23:25
you think things changed for you over time if you're following
23:29
what I'm getting at? Yeah, no, things definitely
23:32
changed over time. And like like you kind of said,
23:34
a pre TJ even before TJI was I was over the top.
23:38
I mean I was like a kind of ride heater guy with a big curveball.
23:41
My ability was always in to spin the ball.
23:44
I could always spin the ball really well, which like I said
23:46
it, it showed up in my curveball.
23:48
And then I kind of, I did my, my rehab with compost and slowly
23:52
kind of lowered the slot a little bit maybe to get into my,
23:55
my more natural groove. And just to, to address some of
23:58
what we thought was causing me to get hurt in the 1st place.
24:01
I mean, in doing that, because I was so prone to like spin the
24:04
ball already, I became hugely supinated.
24:06
My supination bias is maybe it's, it's one of the biggest
24:10
that I've ever seen. I am so far supination bias.
24:13
It's, I couldn't pronate something if you held the gun to
24:16
my head, but it, it's, it's worked out really well.
24:20
And I've kind of leaned into that.
24:21
I've gone so like at Pima, I was still trying to throw that
24:24
curveball. And then eventually I was like,
24:26
this thing sucks. I'm like, I'm just going to
24:28
throw a big sweeper. I mean, it started out really
24:30
slow. I mean, it was like 74 miles an
24:32
hour. It's still had the big shape
24:33
that it does, but it was slow. And so I just threw it more and
24:35
more over time. I leaned more into my supination
24:38
bias and now I'm able to get 20 plus inches of sweep at 85 miles
24:42
an hour. And so it's, it's got plus 10
24:44
miles an hour. It's gained movement and I've
24:47
gained command of it just because of how much I can and I
24:50
can throw that and how much I have thrown that.
24:51
And then with with the other stuff, like I said, I was so
24:54
dead set and like throwing this 4 seam, but it was like I can't
24:57
get more than like 11 vert on anything.
25:01
I think it joked around the highest vert pitch I threw last
25:03
year was a change up that I kind of like got under a little bit
25:07
and like rose up and of course that I gave up a double off of
25:10
it. But it's kind of funny to me
25:12
because you always think of like these changes that you're making
25:15
and it always changes over time and like it's to my detriment
25:18
some points, but I'm, I'm so like specific about the movement
25:21
qualities that I want that like even when I get there, then I'm
25:24
like, all right, how can I make this better?
25:25
And so like this offseason's been really, really tough for me
25:28
because I'm like, I got, I'm trying to do so many things
25:30
because this is the first time in my life I've had so much
25:32
time. So I'm like, all right, I'm
25:34
trying to play with the sinker a little bit.
25:35
I'm trying to play with the change up a little bit, get the
25:37
sweep, play with the cutter. And so I've gotten a ton of
25:40
stuff done and I'm really happy with it.
25:41
But just the way that I am, I'm never really like satisfied with
25:44
that. And so my arsenal's grown a lot
25:46
over time. And a big change in that was
25:49
just, it's like my shift from run to, to focusing on depth.
25:53
Like I, I feel like so many people are just like, run the
25:56
ball, run the ball, run the ball.
25:57
But in, in doing that, you're making yourself really prone to
26:01
opposite handed hitters. Like if you're just focusing on
26:03
run, then if you're a righty, then then lefties are just going
26:06
to kill you. And that was my biggest struggle
26:08
was all right, how can I attack lefties?
26:10
And the more that you create depth with your pitches,
26:12
especially your fastballs and your change UPS, it's going to
26:15
make you platoon neutral. Like you're not going to have to
26:17
worry about handedness. And so I focused completely on
26:20
how can I kill depth on my change of how can I kill depth
26:23
on my sinker. And it just kind of took over.
26:25
And at this point, like that's, that's where I've done it.
26:27
And I don't, I don't run a, a pitch more than maybe 15 inches
26:30
on my best one, but it's, it's probably around more 1314
26:33
inches, average 12 inches, but it's one vert, 0 vert hopefully.
26:38
And so like that, that's been my, my biggest change is just
26:41
going how can I get this pitch lower and lower on the depth and
26:45
then that will take over kind of the weak contact area of it and
26:48
the platoon side of everything. Sticking on pitch metrics, now
26:52
we can nerd out for a little bit.
26:53
You talked about the run you're getting, you're talking about
26:56
the IVB. Do you know roughly what your
26:59
spin efficiency is that you're then able to lean into this seam
27:04
shift? Quality.
27:06
It changes a little bit, but I'm generally in the 75 to 85%
27:13
around their spin efficiency. Sometimes it's even a little bit
27:16
lower than that. But really I've kind of targeted
27:19
trying to be in that range. I mean, that's kind of your
27:21
sweet spot for scene shifts. And so like I, like I said, I'm
27:24
really lucky to have benefited from understanding that a little
27:28
bit and like having people around me that have understood
27:30
that and trying to figure that out and tinker.
27:33
But I, I think what's kind of funny to me is, and I never
27:36
really knew this. I was talking with the Marlins
27:38
big league analytics guy and we were going over Egotronic data
27:42
that I hadn't seen before of just when I was down in Jupiter.
27:45
And the way that scene shift helps me the most isn't with my
27:48
sinker. It's with my change up because I
27:50
throw it's the most he he claims his name is Brandon Mann.
27:55
He said it's the most supinated change up he's ever seen.
27:57
So I'm literally like I'm like around the ball.
28:00
I'm throwing it almost like a football.
28:03
And then because I'm able, it's like it's it gets like this
28:06
weird inefficient gyro spin and then it seem shifts back.
28:10
And so that pitch was such an unlock for me because it looks
28:14
like my slider or my cutter. It has like slider gyro spin,
28:19
but then it goes back the other way and then it gets negative
28:21
vert. And so it's this funky weird
28:24
pitch that like metrically isn't anything it it's good, good, but
28:28
it's not like jaw-dropping, like big, huge numbers that you would
28:32
expect. But it got a 46% with rate this
28:35
last year. And the more I threw it, the
28:37
better it made everything else. And so like, that was the
28:40
biggest unlock for me is understanding seam shift past
28:42
just a sinker, but seam shift on every other one of your pitches,
28:46
getting seam shift and getting to these movement qualities of
28:49
whatever your preference is. Like if you're hugely pronated
28:52
bias or like in my case, when you're hugely supinated bias,
28:54
taking advantage of those capacities that you have have
28:57
from these huge biases. Given your biasy being supinated
29:03
and Speaking of the seam shift, so not only is that lower
29:07
efficiency on the change out, so you're getting the depth out of
29:10
it. So then it's almost like A2
29:12
break change up in a way. You're getting the depth and the
29:14
run. Then the sweeper, you're getting
29:17
seam shift on that as well. You're getting seam effects
29:19
because it's getting carried across the zone like a Frisbee.
29:23
100%. Although it's not normally
29:26
thought of that way, it's you're effectively throwing a high
29:29
efficiency sweeper, I'm assuming.
29:32
Yeah, yeah, as it's getting taken horizontally across the
29:37
zone. Exactly.
29:38
I love this stuff. So then where?
29:40
Where's the cutter at now? So that's been kind of my
29:44
biggest hurdle. Like I said, generally like a
29:47
cutter is supposed to be a higher vert pitch, maybe not as
29:51
much sweet, but you're trying to get on the zero line kind of
29:53
with at least some amount of vert.
29:55
And to me, like I said, it is just about impossible for me to
29:59
get any kind of vert at all, which helps with other pitches,
30:02
but it's really tough and you're trying to throw 4 seams or
30:04
cutters. And so I've gone through at this
30:07
point I think 4 different cutter grips and I finally have one
30:10
that's just just about perfect. The best part about being so
30:14
supinated biased is I can maintain Velo when I'm throwing
30:16
glider E pitches. And so I've found a grip that's
30:19
perfect. I can get it in the six vert
30:21
range and hopefully in Florida where the ball moves more, it'll
30:25
be around the 8778 vert range. Then it's got like -4 negative 5
30:30
inches of sweep at 89 plus I've thrown a couple at 1991, which
30:34
is, is perfect to me. Like that's, that's right in the
30:36
range that I want. Because this last year at Oregon
30:38
State, I was throwing a cutter at the beginning of the year and
30:41
it was more gyro. The shape was kind of
30:43
inconsistent. We'll say it was.
30:44
It was basically like a bad gyro slider didn't do anything that
30:48
it was was supposed to. It got hammered.
30:49
And I think it was because like guys were kind of in between on
30:52
the sinker and the sweeper and then they were just like bat
30:55
speed to the cutter and just got hammered.
30:57
And so maybe four starts into the year, I was just like, screw
31:01
this. Like let's just scrap this.
31:02
Go with what's working. Because in my mind I was like,
31:04
there's no real situation that I couldn't just throw a change up
31:09
or a sweeper. And so I was like, let's go back
31:11
to the drawing board. Wait till the offseason.
31:13
And so that was a big point of emphasis for me this year or
31:17
this offseason is like I need to get a true cutter shape down and
31:20
I I think I finally found one that's perfect.
31:22
The velos good, the movements great and my command of it for
31:25
just have thrown it for a little while is is surprisingly well
31:28
above average, I would say. So I'm I'm really happy with
31:31
where that's at right now. Have you thrown it to hitters at
31:35
all to this point? No, I mean, I've just been doing
31:38
some velocity and some pitch design pens, but I haven't
31:41
thrown to hitters at all. We were thinking about doing
31:43
lives, but then we were like, that's so long until we're
31:45
playing games. I'll just go off what the
31:47
Marlins want to have me doing and kind of stick with their
31:49
plan. The reason I asked was kind of
31:53
getting ahead a little bit, but the the pitch metric nerdy
31:58
stuff, granted how much depth you're getting on everything
32:01
you're throwing, likely has the cutter playing with more vert
32:06
than a trackman plot would say. Or like the IVB would say.
32:11
So although it only says you're getting 6:00-ish inches of IVB,
32:16
you're still getting 6-7 above what your most occurring
32:21
fastball is. So it's still a massive
32:23
separation there. And then on top of that, given
32:26
your slightly lower slot, now, I'm sure you can kind of play
32:29
the vertical approach angle game a little bit.
32:32
Yeah, no, that and that's been the the biggest target going
32:35
back to that conversation that I have, Brandon Mann, the the
32:37
Marlins analytics guy. I guess I'll, I'll summarize
32:40
kind of the points of like if I was to throw my arsenal to to
32:42
minor leaguers right now, I'd probably be all right.
32:45
It wouldn't really be to the effect of anything crazy.
32:48
I wouldn't have to make any drastic changes.
32:50
The problem comes then of when you're in the big leagues and
32:53
then big league hitters are so good that then they look and I
32:57
just have this low quadrant. I mean, my sweeper is usually
32:59
low. My split change is really low
33:01
and my sinker is really low and I just have nothing up.
33:04
There's no quadrant I can build that up, which when you're
33:06
facing Major League hitters is a is a big issue.
33:09
They're, they're so good that they can make those adjustments
33:11
and take all the ones that are balls and usually get some kind
33:15
of a bat on the ones that are strikes.
33:16
And so that cutter is going to be so massive for lefty
33:19
specifically. Because like you said, even
33:21
though the vert isn't 20 or anything substantial, it's
33:24
enough that I can get it up and into lefties and really play
33:28
into that, that upper quadrant and just get something in there
33:31
that'll take their eyes up. So then I can still get the
33:34
swings on the, on the split changes.
33:35
I can still get the, the ground balls and the whiffs on the
33:38
sweepers. And so whatever it is, it's just
33:40
going to help me overall to fill out that that higher quadrant,
33:44
even if the the vert isn't jaw-dropping.
33:47
As much as I do love this topic, I'm going to pull us back a
33:50
little bit because I did just now realize we have not yet made
33:55
the jump through the remainder of your career at Oregon State
33:59
and into the draft. So we still have a good bit to
34:02
cover. So let's let's talk about you
34:05
becoming a weekend starter at Oregon State and kind of playing
34:10
out the season there. Yeah, season was fantastic.
34:14
I really have have no issues with with with a lot of the
34:17
stuff. The biggest issue was I guess
34:18
losing in the Super regionals, but that comes with the
34:21
territory I suppose. But it was a great year.
34:24
Like I said, a lot of the the issues that that we tried to fix
34:27
in the fall really came to a head in the season and my
34:30
velocity was up, my average velocity, my stuff was better.
34:33
I was throwing away more strikes.
34:35
I was able to, you know, when I did walk somebody, it didn't
34:38
spiral like in the past. And so a lot of those things
34:40
that we fixed really factored into a lot of what came to head
34:44
in the season. And it was just, it was, it was
34:46
such a fantastic year. I was, I was the Friday starter
34:48
and then Jacob was the Saturday starter.
34:50
He had an incredible year as well.
34:52
And so just being able to pitch next to your best friend, it was
34:54
just fantastic. I did have one set back where I
34:57
had to miss a couple weeks right at the beginning of the season.
35:00
I don't even really know what it was at this point.
35:03
I mean, I felt something strange like in my, it kind of felt like
35:06
a nerve pinch or something. And.
35:08
On the Spencer side, right, wasn't.
35:10
It, Yeah, it was, but it wasn't I don't even really know how to
35:14
pinpoint it. It was it was in and I, I think
35:16
what happened was, is I was pitching in a game versus
35:18
Arkansas in the second week of the year and there was
35:22
approaching 20,000 people at that the stadium in Globe life.
35:25
And so my adrenaline was so high and I think for some reason,
35:29
maybe maybe because my adrenaline was so high, I like
35:32
Piper extended my elbow a little bit or something and I felt this
35:35
weird buzz. And so I came out for precaution
35:37
or whatever, whatever you want to call it, and then came back
35:40
and, and didn't feel anything for the, the rest of the year.
35:43
So I guess I'll just attribute that to, to high adrenaline and
35:46
bad luck. But besides that, I was, I was
35:49
healthy all year. I had no setbacks.
35:51
And then going into this this offseason was, was fantastic
35:54
because I had a lot of time to really get on to Flexpro to
35:56
establish my baselines and establish my, my forearm
35:59
strength and a lot of just my, my overall strength when it
36:02
comes to, to arm health and, and everything.
36:05
I appreciate the shout out. We'll we'll dig more on that in
36:08
a little bit. When you're talking about
36:10
tinkering and you're a guy who never really stops.
36:13
I I immediately thought of us on the FaceTime not too long ago
36:18
when you're trying to train in like a supinated position to
36:22
simulate ball release and trying to get everything you can out of
36:26
everything you do. Of course.
36:27
Now, now, let's step back to the draft.
36:30
You guys had the sad loss in the Super regional.
36:35
Did you have much expectations going to the draft?
36:37
You obviously put together a Goodyear.
36:39
I'm sure you are not naive to the fact that you were going to
36:43
get picked at some point, but did you have any idea where you
36:46
were going to go? I mean, a little bit, I think I
36:50
actually fell lower than I, I was expecting probably due to
36:53
that, that I don't know if we'll call it an injury, but like the
36:55
weird thing that I felt at the beginning of the year, maybe
36:58
some teams were kind of turned off to that.
36:59
And so when I got when I got drafted that, that whole day, I
37:03
didn't really hear much. And so like when I, when I got
37:05
the call with the Marlins, I, I was talking to my agent and he's
37:08
like, this is going to be a great fit.
37:09
And so far, like the Marlins have been awesome.
37:12
I think that it's a fantastic organization.
37:14
They're really heading in in the right direction with a lot of
37:16
their player development and a lot of the things that they're
37:19
doing. They've hired a lot of great
37:20
people. They've got a lot of people
37:21
backing them and I think they're going to do really good things.
37:23
And kind of like I said, of not being satisfied at anything.
37:26
I kind of took it as a chip on my shoulder.
37:28
It sounds dumb because I was selected very high.
37:30
I was like, I took it as a little disrespectful.
37:32
I was like, not I like I deserve to be picked higher.
37:34
And I've used it as kind of a chip on my shoulder of of really
37:37
just feeling the fire. And it's probably a little bit,
37:40
I guess vain. Whatever I can do to give myself
37:43
motivation and it just kind of keep that, that edge, I guess
37:47
is, is the biggest thing. And so I've taken a lot of that
37:50
in stride and really used it to kind of hone in other specifics.
37:53
And now my goal is I don't care about the drafts.
37:55
I just want to make the big leagues and really make a
37:57
presence there. So like that, that's, that's my
37:59
next step forward. For sure.
38:01
And I know you didn't get any game time after signing with the
38:06
Marlins, So what did a lot of that look like when you were at
38:10
the complex? Was it just getting used to
38:13
their practices and their training, or what was daily life
38:18
like at that point? It was, it was definitely a
38:20
change of pace. You had a lot more free time
38:22
than you'd want. The actual days would like wake
38:25
up at at 5:30, maybe 6:00 every morning and then we'd go lift
38:29
and then we'd, we'd have little time to eat breakfast or
38:32
whatever and then we'd go throw. So during this time I was
38:34
ramping back up. I was, you know, just working
38:36
through a lot of that stuff, getting my arm back into shape
38:39
and towards the back end. I threw a couple bullpens and
38:41
got off the mound a little bit. But overall daily life was like
38:44
wake up, go lift, eat, throw, do conditioning or whatever.
38:49
Maybe we had meetings, we had Spanish class pretty frequently
38:52
which was which was pretty fun. And then it would be like go
38:54
back to the hotel and play cards for like 4 hours.
38:59
Not, not such a bad life. I do love hearing that you guys
39:02
had Spanish class. I've I've spent some time in a
39:06
couple different orgs and I've always seen the Latin American
39:09
guys get English class, but there were no offerings of
39:13
Spanish classes. So do you know how long the
39:16
Marlins have been doing that? I'm not sure, but so their
39:20
credit, that's been a huge point of emphasis for them is like
39:23
they want to integrate us into, into Latin culture as much as
39:26
the Latins are getting integrated into American
39:28
culture. And so it's, it's been a great
39:30
blend. Like I've met some really great
39:32
people from Latin America, a lot of, a lot of great Dominican
39:35
teammates, a lot of great Venezuelan teammates and just
39:38
people that you hear their background and you hear their
39:40
story and it, and it's really cool to, to get to know like
39:43
their culture and see how different it is from ours and
39:45
just their, their journey to kind of the same spot of being
39:49
teammates. And it's, it's pretty cool to
39:50
see and getting to talk to them in Spanish.
39:53
I mean, like their face lights up and they're like, they just
39:54
love to talk. And it's, it's cool to see them,
39:57
you know, trying their English out and then I'm trying my
39:59
Spanish out and it's broken both ways.
40:01
But it's cool to just try to piece this stuff together and
40:03
really try to have good conversations with them because
40:06
I'm sure they appreciate it. They're in a foreign country and
40:08
they don't know a lot of the happenings of, of what goes on
40:11
here. And so just to give them a
40:13
little piece of comfort is, is big for me and to, to try to
40:16
help them out. And I get to learn Spanish in
40:18
the process. So I'm not complaining.
40:20
Well if the conversations you are having or anything like the
40:24
ones I was having, I assume they're completely LeBron James
40:28
centric or just about Messi and Ronaldo.
40:31
I. Haven't had any of those
40:33
conversations. Apparently that my Latin
40:35
teammates are a lot different. The biggest thing we talk about
40:38
is like we play, we play cards in the locker room and like they
40:41
teach us their Dominican or their Venezuelan card games or
40:44
we play Domino's or something. And a lot of it's like learning
40:46
how to, how to have fun and talk trash in Spanish back and forth
40:50
with, with everyone. Like that's, that's been the
40:52
most fun part is just that, that like bonding time of like you're
40:55
talking trash and letting them know.
40:57
And then you're, you guys are competing and winning and, and
40:59
just having a good time. So I'm assuming the majority of
41:02
the vocab that you've learned at this point is not safe for this
41:07
podcast. Yeah.
41:09
Definitely a mix in there. Probably 50% of it's been
41:11
profanity, but we'll leave that off the podcast.
41:14
All right, we will challenge you another time.
41:17
We'll we'll bring you on. We we can have a culture shock
41:20
episode. There we go.
41:22
Awesome. Yeah, let's jump.
41:23
Ahead now and talk about the the fall and winter now that you've
41:27
had this long arc of development.
41:30
You said probably, probably the longest that you've ever had it,
41:33
especially being healthy, the longest development window
41:35
you've ever had. So you get back home and what
41:39
was your plan that you talked about developing the cutter, You
41:42
talked about kind of refining the arsenal, but were there
41:47
other things in the mix? Yeah, I mean it, it started like
41:52
after the draft and kind of after that period of when I
41:54
first came back. It's it's a daunting amount of
41:57
time. Like you're looking at almost
41:58
four months of stuff. And this is the time where like
42:01
either you separate yourself and you get better or you take a
42:03
step back and you get worse. Like it's a it's a enough of a
42:06
time frame that you can really affect your career either
42:09
positively or negatively. And both Jacob and I and
42:12
Compost, we all knew this. And so we sat down for long
42:15
conversations. I know that we had a a long
42:17
conversation with Daryl and we've had long conversations
42:20
with a lot of people and we set out.
42:21
So we actually sat down about four months ago and mapped out
42:25
every single day for the rest of the offseason.
42:28
So we mapped out pulse workload, we mapped out our Flex pro plan,
42:31
we mapped out what we were going to do in the gym with different
42:34
targets that we're going to hit a strength, speed or power wise.
42:37
And then we had different testing metrics that we set out
42:40
to look at and to assess. And it's been pretty smooth from
42:44
there. Like we put in the time at the
42:45
beginning and then it was basically like Jacob and I would
42:47
come in the facility, check every day, like, all right,
42:49
what's our workload for the day? What's our attack going to be
42:52
intent wise? And then it was just easy to
42:55
just do the things because we, we did all the bulk work at the
42:58
beginning. And then it was just basically
42:59
about knocking off the checklist of every day of what do we need
43:02
to accomplish today. And I guess I'll, I'll start
43:04
with like the Flex Pro stuff is our first target was like, let's
43:07
get a huge strength base going, make sure we're protected
43:11
strength wise. And then we can have a little
43:13
bit of fun. You doing the RFD stuff, doing
43:15
the power rehab stuff and focusing on it, you know, the,
43:17
the flashy fun stuff. But we had to get, I think that
43:20
was a total of it was 30 sessions.
43:22
So probably about three months of total strength work.
43:25
And so that was, that was a big bulk of time.
43:26
And those strength cycles suck towards the end, man.
43:29
I mean, you're, you're pulling because every time your numbers
43:32
go up, you got to pull at a higher 70% of your new Max.
43:35
It's, it's, it's pretty brutal, but it, it was such a good work.
43:38
And we, we got so much volume in and so much protection in that.
43:43
Now once season comes, it's going to feel like less work
43:46
even than than what we've been doing in the offseason.
43:48
So that's been great. For sure now.
43:50
Now jumping to the strength side and I'm going to make fun of
43:54
myself. I've now realized I think my
43:56
first response to you like 5 different times has been for
43:59
sure. So feel free to make fun of me
44:01
that if I do it again because I, I caught it, don't worry, I I
44:04
got to be better. OK, well, I got to figure that
44:07
out. Yeah, this.
44:08
This is a part of my development cycle now, but I.
44:11
Do the same thing, it's all right.
44:13
What? What have you focused on in the
44:16
weight room? You're without a doubt a very
44:19
strong guy. Have you made the shift to more
44:22
power speed based movements there?
44:25
Yeah, so we. We're actually really lucky,
44:27
like, I mean, I can't stress this enough, how many people we
44:30
have behind us in, in our corner here.
44:32
And we have two strength trainers, one of which kind of
44:34
writes our programs and the other which has a background in
44:36
US like writing physical studies and testing.
44:40
And so he, he developed a, a system where we're doing force
44:43
plate testing, Proteus testing and speed gate testing.
44:47
And then it kind of takes all of that into account and
44:49
establishes like a baseline of all right, do you need more
44:51
speed work? Do you need more power work or
44:53
do you need just straight up strength work?
44:54
And so throughout the offseason, we test probably every four to
44:58
six weeks ish and then depending on what the next cycle would be.
45:02
And so I started off with the Marlins.
45:05
I did straight strength for the two months I was out there.
45:08
And so I was strong, I was big, I'd gained a lot of weight, I
45:11
felt great. But then it was like, all right,
45:13
now let's turn all that newfound strength.
45:15
Let's let's turn it into power, let's turn it into speed.
45:18
And so I did a big speed cycle following that and it's kind of
45:21
flip-flopped throughout the offseason.
45:22
Right now I'm in a big power cycle.
45:24
So I'm kind of in between. I'm like trying to move a lot of
45:26
weight, but also trying to move it fast and move it, move it,
45:29
move it well. And so it's been, it's been
45:31
shifting throughout the offseason kind of to get our
45:33
needs and the sets that we're doing like kind of in the same
45:37
way of the, the strength on the Flex Pro is like we're joking
45:40
with our trainer. We're like, you're kicking our
45:42
butt here. I mean, we're doing like we're
45:43
doing heavy volume sets when it comes to, to a lot of exercises,
45:48
which is to kind of set us up because then once season hits,
45:51
we're going to have different types of workloads.
45:53
But now the workloads are going to seem less overall, I guess
45:56
because we've we've set such a big baseline for how our bodies
46:00
are are recovering and reacting to the huge workloads we've set.
46:04
It is not as common. It's funny the the cycle that I
46:09
think athletes in baseball goes through in general.
46:12
But there's a handful of pro guys that I've talked to that
46:18
got really deep into the science of training and they recognize
46:22
baseball is a short burst sport. Lower volume when it comes to, I
46:27
guess not throwing volume, but to everything else you do.
46:32
It's all short, very distinct burst of energy.
46:36
And now the more pro guys that I get involved with, I hear them
46:41
say that they have actually migrated more towards a
46:45
traditional bodybuilding esque volume plan, especially early on
46:51
in the offseason. Because by the time they're
46:53
getting to late August, September, they feel absolutely
46:58
drained and they want to accumulate as much volume during
47:01
the winter is possible to make the season feel like it is just
47:06
a breeze. 100% And I think that can be applied to to throwing as
47:11
well. Like I think a big issue with
47:13
what's going on now with injuries is not throwing less,
47:17
throwing more and you know, lifting more and doing more
47:19
volume. Because what happens when you
47:22
get injured is those huge like acute workload spikes.
47:25
And if you can avoid that by just setting your arm up and
47:28
setting your body up to such a high standard of workload that
47:31
when this season comes, it just seems like any other given day
47:34
and you can maintain that strength and maintain that
47:36
volume throughout the season a lot easier if you already have
47:38
such a high level and a high base.
47:41
And I think like that, that's what especially like Japanese
47:43
pitchers do so well is they just have these massive, massive
47:47
workload volumes. And obviously they have their
47:48
their own issues with with injuries and and whatnot and
47:51
overuse. But at the same point, you can
47:53
look and take what they do really well and look and take
47:55
what high volume people do really well and implement it to
47:57
yourself. And so I think like getting
48:00
these huge bases is so important moving forward.
48:02
And I think that's kind of the the path that Flexpro has taken
48:05
too of, of getting these big baselines of strength these
48:07
month long things of, of getting real quality data and quality
48:12
time set into strength and to building that volume in that.
48:15
Workload, any other hot injury takes you're willing to throw
48:20
out there right now, or do you not not want to put yourself on
48:23
the chopping block with that? I think a lot of the stuff that
48:27
that people look into, especially with injury, with
48:29
elbow injuries is, is a little bit misguided.
48:32
I was just having this conversation with, with my my
48:34
PT. We were saying like for years
48:36
and years, everyone's like, you got to strengthen the shoulder
48:38
to protect the elbow, which I, I guess is in theory makes sense.
48:42
You don't want it to go down the chain.
48:43
You don't want it to affect any of that.
48:45
But at the same point, like to protect the elbow, you got to
48:47
protect the elbow. So let's focus on on building
48:50
shoulder strength. Let's also target specific
48:53
forearm, specific elbow, specific things that are going
48:56
to protect the most important part of the throat.
48:59
And so I think like, although it's in the right place with
49:01
some things, some of the little stuff is, is misguided in the in
49:05
the realm of injury and and prevention.
49:08
I'll piggyback on that one. I and of course believe
49:12
something very similar, otherwise we probably wouldn't
49:14
have flexpro grip at this point. But specifically what you're
49:19
saying with the shoulder, I think that is a really fun onion
49:24
to peel in the sense that shoulder injuries have continued
49:29
to decrease as elbow injuries have continued to increase.
49:32
And I've talked about this before.
49:34
I'm sure there's people that are listening that think like, yeah,
49:38
of course, here goes SpongeBob ripping his pants again, just
49:41
this take from Adam. But we're seeing this increase
49:45
in elbow injuries because we've gotten so good at training
49:48
everything else. So we are so strong and can
49:51
produce so much force. So everything that you were
49:53
saying to your PTI agree with completely in the sense that,
49:57
yeah, we can get the shoulder really strong, but that's not
50:01
going to protect the elbow. If anything, now the shoulder
50:05
can just handle more force, and that more force that it can
50:10
handle has to go somewhere. So now the elbow is being
50:14
subjected to more force in the process.
50:16
So we need to now buttress the elbow or insulate the elbow to
50:20
prevent that from being the weakest link.
50:23
So. Of course.
50:23
We just continue to push the weakest link further down the
50:26
chain. Yeah, and I, I think that's
50:29
probably just because we're so good at fixing elbows.
50:32
Like anytime you hear, I always got Tommy John, it's just like,
50:34
yeah, you know, whatever. Which I don't think is the the
50:37
right way to go. Like obviously nothing's ever
50:39
going to be perfect. But if we can attack that and
50:43
and simultaneously drop injuries just overall rather than like
50:46
shoulder injuries are down, but then they just migrate to
50:49
something else, whether that's like back issues, lat issues,
50:51
elbow issues, whatever it might be.
50:53
We don't want to migrate somewhere else.
50:55
We just want to take away injuries to begin with.
50:57
You just want to protect overall rather than push the problem
51:00
elsewhere. Now, do you think most pitchers
51:03
are thinking about this stuff, or is this just the way your
51:06
brain works? I mean, I don't know, I would
51:10
like to think it's just kind of the way my brain works.
51:14
I just, I have fun trying to work through problems.
51:17
Like I think outside it, like I always joke around outside of
51:19
competition, like being analytical and like doing a
51:22
pitch design pen or sitting in on someone else throwing or
51:25
talking through like a workload program or a workload plan is
51:29
just fun for me. Like I just love the game of
51:32
baseball. And this side of baseball is, is
51:35
so fun for me because it's, it's like a math problem that you're
51:37
trying to solve. And, and it's not that there
51:39
isn't a solution, but there's little solutions And they, they
51:42
kind of like, it's like a, it's like a breadcrumb trail that you
51:45
kind of just keep crawling through and keep biting through.
51:47
And I don't know if there's ever gonna be like one big loaf of
51:51
bread at the end, but it's fun for me to keep on and keep
51:54
working and trying to perfect something that probably can't be
51:57
perfected. But it's fun for me to try.
52:00
Whenever the baseball career does actually end, which I hope
52:04
is many years from now, I'm sure the damn analytics team would
52:08
love to have you hop on board. That would be fun.
52:10
I've I've thought about some, some realm of coaching or, or
52:14
something after it's done, like I never want to, I never want to
52:16
step away from the game of baseball.
52:18
Like I've given so much of my life and, and, and love to the
52:20
game at this point that it's like, what the heck else am I
52:23
going to do? So it's, it's, it's been fun for
52:25
me so far. And I hope that it it takes me
52:27
places elsewhere. No doubt.
52:30
See I switched. I was about to say for sure but
52:32
I switched to no. Doubt.
52:33
There we go, you can rotate. Back and forth.
52:36
I caught myself on that one. But what do you have on the
52:41
goals, mission. Whatever your your plan for
52:45
2025, what in your mind makes this year successful?
52:50
Like what do you minimally want to accomplish versus what would
52:55
be the pie in the? Sky.
52:58
I mean, like, like I said, I'm I'm trying to chase perfection.
53:01
And so like my real only way that I would say this year's
53:05
successful is if I crack the big leagues, but it's more of a a
53:09
far stretched goal, I guess than than some other things.
53:12
I guess, like I said, I measure success in in little waves, like
53:15
I'm always trying to get that little thing.
53:16
I mean, so ultimate success would be like cracking the big
53:19
leagues and and really performing.
53:20
But overall, it would just be my start to start basis one, just
53:23
staying healthy throughout the year, being able to handle my
53:26
first year's workload, whatever that looks like with true
53:29
through success and without seeing like a dip towards the
53:32
end of the year in velocity or my shoulders hanging on by a
53:35
thread or whatever it might be, just just staying healthy.
53:37
And that would be a very well measured way of success, I
53:40
suppose. And then just overall, just
53:42
being able to hit my targets of maybe if the team sets out pitch
53:45
usage targets of like, you know, we want you to hit this and we
53:48
want you to develop this and just just hitting those targets
53:51
and and making successful progress.
53:53
I think a more realistic goal would be to shove through hi a
53:57
shove through AA and then end getting good standing and AA
54:00
ready to get the call next year. So that's kind of my my, my
54:04
realistic intent. But I probably won't be happy
54:07
unless I'm sitting there and in the big leagues in in Marlins
54:10
Park and just just just throw into some some good hitters.
54:15
I, I guess you stole the question from me again.
54:18
So we're we're on the same wavelength here is starting in
54:21
high a the plan? I, I believe so.
54:24
I would be lying if I said I knew for sure, but given some of
54:27
the conversations I've had in the past, if I have a good
54:29
spring training and I'm in good standing and whatever, that that
54:31
seems like the most realistic route.
54:33
But things change all the time. So I I don't know for sure.
54:37
That's kind of my assumption at this point, but I I wouldn't
54:41
know for sure. Right.
54:42
It seems pretty standard for a college arm that's entering pro
54:47
ball as a starter. Hi, A seems like the regular
54:51
move if you ask me to make a bet.
54:54
That's probably what I would say.
54:56
And that's just because of seeing every other organization
54:58
do damn near the exact same thing.
55:00
Of course. Yeah, Yeah, I hear you.
55:03
I respect the competitive nature that saying this year won't be a
55:06
success unless you crack the show.
55:10
But it's crazy how difficult it is to move.
55:13
So even if you can make the one move up to AA, that's a massive
55:18
success where the people in your circle will be very happy, where
55:22
I'm sure you are like, gosh darn it, like just two more levels.
55:26
That's all we need, of course. Even when I get to the big
55:29
leagues, but I'll probably just be like, well, I'm not going to
55:32
be happy until I'm an All Star and then.
55:33
It's like, well, I'm not going to be happy.
55:34
Until I went to Cy Young or whatever it might be.
55:37
And so I'm trying to be better about that of I wasn't great
55:40
about it in College of appreciating the moment and
55:42
really like accepting like to this point, I've accomplished a
55:45
lot. It's not what I want.
55:47
I'm still far from the goals that I've set for myself, but I
55:49
have accomplished a lot. My dad always, you know, tries
55:52
to like, hey man, like take a second and really soak it all
55:54
in. And I'm really bad about that.
55:56
So I'm trying to be better about that and really appreciate
55:58
everything that's come. But it's tough for me cuz like I
56:00
said, I'm never really satisfied, which helps me a lot,
56:03
but it works to my detriment a lot as well.
56:05
Just understanding of where I'm at and being more when my feet
56:08
are AT and figuring that out. It would maybe help a little
56:10
bit, but at the same time, that's kind of what makes me me,
56:13
and so I don't want to take that edge away.
56:16
I'm sure there's little ways that you can work that in as a
56:19
goal. Maybe since you are a starting
56:22
pitcher and you'll have tons of time on your hand, maybe you can
56:26
do ballpark reviews or something like that just so you get
56:30
comfortable in a sense of where you're at.
56:32
Not taking away your competitive edge, but you can have some fun
56:37
kind of on the side besides just tinkering with your arsenal or
56:41
getting the next guy out. 100% yeah, no, that, that I'm
56:44
definitely going to have a lot of free time.
56:45
That's that's an understatement. But you know, I got to come up
56:48
with a hobby. That's my biggest issue this
56:50
offseason was actually too much free time.
56:53
I get done working out for the day.
56:54
Like I just, I just hang around ABA for like hours on hours just
56:58
cuz I'm like, what am I going to do?
56:59
Go home and make dinner? That's all that I had to do for
57:02
the day was workout, train and then like golf on the weekends.
57:06
That was about it. Tough life to live, I know.
57:09
Hey, I'm, I'm in a I'm in a tough position.
57:13
Let's just say that I'm unbelievably grateful.
57:15
And like, you know, like I said it, I got no complaints like
57:17
that. I'm I'm one of the luckiest
57:19
people in the whole world, so having too much free time isn't
57:21
a real problem. Yes, I, I know a lot of people
57:24
are jealous of the seat you're in, but hey, you earned it man.
57:27
You put in a ton of work to get here.
57:29
And with that, it kind of concludes my questioning.
57:32
I don't know if there's anything else you feel you want to share
57:34
or if there's anything you still have up your sleeves.
57:37
Yeah, I mean, I just once again just like to say thanks to you
57:40
guys at the Flex pro team and y'all have really helped and,
57:43
and, and established a way because in the past we've never
57:46
really had a good way to to train forearms.
57:48
There's been some some shoulder strength sensors and some other
57:50
ways that you can test other realms of strength.
57:53
There really hasn't been anything forearm based.
57:55
And so that the work you guys are doing, I think is, is it's
57:58
so beneficial to just not even just to me, but just to the game
58:01
of baseball. And I appreciate all the work
58:03
that you guys are putting in behind the scenes to, to make
58:05
the product better. All the, all the time you guys
58:07
have spent developing in the app and, and everything you guys
58:09
have done is truly remarkable in my opinion.
58:11
And I, I can't thank you guys enough.
58:14
Well, thanks a ton. We wouldn't be in this position
58:16
if it wasn't for people like you.
58:17
It means a ton to have you be a part of the family.
58:20
And of course, to the rest of the ABA guys, we're extremely
58:23
appreciative to them as well. And of course, we're
58:27
appreciative to the listeners. So to everyone out there, thanks
58:30
for laying back with us.