Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / "That's Going to End Up On Your Hips"

Transcript

"That's Going to End Up On Your Hips" · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You're in the bakery with your daughter. She's buying I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe a Lamington, maybe it's a sausage role
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with some extra sauce, and then some random guy in
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the back of the bakery, a customer looks across at
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: your daughter and says, geez, that's going to go straight
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to your hips. I wish that I was making this up,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: but it's true. A few weeks ago, on news dot
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: com dot au, Eleanor Wickland shared the moment that a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: mum filmed the confrontation she had with the man who
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: made that completely inappropriate comment. After the break, we're going
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to talk about what happened, how it happened, why it happened,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and what we can do to help our kids to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: be resilient in the face of a society where some
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: people just don't know what appropriate boundaries are. I think
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this is a conversation that anyone who's raising daughters who
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: care about how they look or sons who might make
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in appropriate comme frankly, even daughters who might make in
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: appropriate comments, needs to listen to. That's next stay with us. Hello,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Happy Family's podcast, where you get real
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: parenting solutions. Every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: parenting podcast, Kylie. Just a few weeks ago, Eleanor Wickland
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: wrote an article for news dot com dot You about
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: something that happened that went viral on social media. As
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: social media does tend to blow these kinds of things up.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Sue of Victorian mother shared the tense footage on her
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Instagram account, showing the moment she confronted the stranger outside
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: a shop in the seaside town of Torque. The man
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: was wearing a blue and yellow shirt that appears to
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: be a uniform. And here is what happened.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Is there a problem? Is there a problem with you?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You're not going to make any more comments about young
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: girls bodies while they're in a shop buying food.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: What did you say?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: What did you say?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I said, did you start talking about her body? That's
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: exactly talking about her body?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I am y, Yeah, actually okay, So
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: it goes on from there. We don't need to hear
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the rest of it. I think that's enough, Kylie. Do
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you believe him he wasn't talking about her body when
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: he said it'll go straight to hips? Was he legit?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Do you think that was Do you think that was
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: an honest mistake? Do you think that we can let
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: this one go?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Look, I probably have very different take to you on this.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: What's your take? I'm really fascinated by this because I'm incensed.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I'm so angry. Angry that's the wrong word. I'm just
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: astonished that in twenty twenty six that some bozo and
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a bakery who's a customer. It's not even like, Look
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: he's looked under a teenage girl and said, don't eat it.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: It's going to go straight onto your hips. Like who
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: says that? What's your take? Why is your take so
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: different to mine?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I think for me growing up, that was just like
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the dune thing. Like I my mum would say that
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: nearly every time I ate something, you know, and I'd
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: be enjoying a chocolate bar or she would tell me
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: that it was going to end up on my bum
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: like it does hers. Wow, my grandma said it to
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: me as well. Like, so for me, I'm not normalizing
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: it by any stretch.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Have you been so desensitized that you think that it's appropriate?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: No, what I what I will say is protect your peace.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Protect So you say, pick your battles like, yeah, if
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: some random says something stupid to you, just you can
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: walk away. You don't have to turn it into something.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think, Okay, I totally get where this
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: mum's coming from and got on her for standing up
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: for her daughter. I don't have any problems with that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: But I think that social media is just poison, like
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I really do, And I think that it creates so
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: much turmoil and angst in our lives that is completely
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: and utterly unnecessary. Was it kind what he said? Was
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: it nice? Do we wish that we lived in this beautiful,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: perfect world where everybody did nice things and said nice
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: things to us and us with respect, Like, yes, of course,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: but that's not the world we live in. And I
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: just I think that we can get so worked up
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: about things that, in a scheme of things are actually
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: really little.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So you are right, but I have to push back
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: on a couple of things, and I'll tell you why.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think that you're right that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: we do get worked up about things that really it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: easier just to let it go and go and live
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: our lives. And if people are pigs, if people are inappropriate,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: that's their problem.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: She's actually drawn more attention to this for her daughter
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: than the man saying what he said said that's how
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I feel about it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So that's what I get, and I don't disagree with
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that perspective. However, I really truly believe that. And I'm
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: not on social media. I found this because it was
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: on a news site that I was just checking up
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: because I was looking for great parenting stories for the podcast.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, I've just written
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: a book about boys, and I want to have a
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: conversation about two things right after the break. The first
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: thing that I want to talk about is how we
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: protect our girls from this sort of rubbish. But secondly,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: my book about boys is what it is to be
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a healthy man. And that man is not a healthy man,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: not only because he's in a bakery and it's going
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to go to his hips as well. So did I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: say that? Can I say that?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: With Y?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Did I go too far? I think I might have
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: gone too far. I can't believe it. But more to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the point, he is not doing what healthy men do
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: for the people who are around him.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: No, But do you think that being confronted the way
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: he was and spoken to the way he was is
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: going to teach him a lesson.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Typically i'd say no, but every now and again, in
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: extreme cases, we know that punishment and shame can work.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not actually anti shame. A lot of people think
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: that shame is the worst thing on the planet. We
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be shaming people. I reckon shame actually has a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: really important role to plan our society, and sometimes this
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff can change behavior. I think that he
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: will probably think twice before he says something like that. Again. Unfortunately,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: because it's on social media, it will blow up and
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: there will be people who will defend him and tell
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: her to get a life and all that sort of
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: stuff as well.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: But I'm not here to defend him by any stretch.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So please, I'm not suggesting that you are. You're saying
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: there are bad people. Let it be water off a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: duck's back. Move on with your life, don't.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: A few weeks ago we had a conversation disturb your peace.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: We had a conversation about whether or not words could
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: permanently can harp, impact and harm us.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: That was a great conversation, and so in that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Vein we can have a one you know what, like
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: fifteen second interaction with somebody, and now we've completely blown
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: it out of the water and.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: It's going to take up days and days and days
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: of our lives.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: We can just go what a jerk and get on
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: with our lives.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: After the break, we're going to talk about what to
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: talk to our kids about when these sort of comments
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: come up. We're also going to talk about healthy masculinity
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and teaching boys and men, frankly, to do better. That's next.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Stay with us. We're back as a happy Famili's podcast.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. All Right, Kylie
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and my book Boys, Building Strong Young Men from the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: inside Out. I make a really big deal about what
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: healthy masculinity is. There's so much talk about toxic masculinity.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's helpful. I actually believe that boys
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: aren't the problem. I believe they're the solution. And the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: thing that I emphasize really really strongly in the book
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: is that a healthy male is one who helps the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: people around and feel safer and stronger. Now, some people
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: have highlighted that that's what healthy people do generally, but
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I wanted to make that about masculinity because the genetic,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the biological, the natural pull for men is actually kind
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: of in the other direction. In so many contexts, men
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: are supposed to be protecting. Men are strong, they can hurt,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: they can harm, they can be powerful, they can dominate,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And by resisting that and helping people around them feel
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: safer and stronger, that's when we really get to see
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: their true strength, especially their inner strength. This guy here
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in the bakery not helping anyone feel safer or stronger.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: What he said is callous, unkind, completely unnecessary, so inconsiderate, aggeringly.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I would even say it's capricious. I just think it's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a hateful thing to say. It's a really just an
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: awful thing. I just don't understand where some I'm guessing
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: from the video he looks like he's about fifty. Where
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: does some fifty ye old bloke think that he gets
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the has the right to start commenting on teenage girls
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: bodies while they're in a bakery buying a pie, Like,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: come on, I just astonishing body shaming.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think is gender specific the comment comment yep,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: like this is not just males. Women do it to
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: each other all the time.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you talked about how your your mom and your
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: grandma did it to you, so that's fair. I just
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: want to emphasize healthy masculinity, healthy males. They help the
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: people around them feel safe and stronger and more to
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the point, as you've just said, and I should have
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: picked up on this earlier. I'm really glad you said it.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Don't talk. There's a clip that we played on the
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: podcast a couple of years ago. They play for you
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: If somebody can't change something about themselves in thirty seconds
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: or less, then you shouldn't be mentioning it to them.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: If you say, hey, your shoes untied, or hey, you
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: have a little fuzzy on your shirt there, or if
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: you say, hey, your.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Pants are unzicked.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: I wanted to tell you privately because I didn't want
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you to feel embarrassed. But it happens all of us.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: If you tell someone something like that, they can change
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: those things in thirty seconds or less. But if you
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: comment if someone's hair color or hair texture, or hairstyle
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: or body, they cannot change that in thirty seconds.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Or less about themselves.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Your words have power.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: We are kind of like a tube of two paste.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: If you say something that someone can't change in thirty
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: seconds or less, you say those things. Try to fix it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: You try to apologize, You try to take the words back,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: take it back, ticket back, takeet back, and you try
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: to undo what you said, un do what you did.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: But it's something they couldn't change about themselves, and so
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: it's very messy.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: You can't totally take those words back. You can't totally
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: fix it.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Your words have power, and your words matter. If you
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: walk out of this room spreading kindness to the people
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: around you, it spreading love to the people around you.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: That is what truly makes the difference.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Don't talk about people's appearances because they can't do anything
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: about the stuff that takes a little bit longer to fix.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: The toothpaste is out of the tube. You can't get
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: it back in. It makes a really big mess. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep on calling him Bozo. It was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: so inappropriate. Boso in the bakery has made a really
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: big mess. Now your comment about don't let it, I
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: can't remember the words you said, something about peace. Don't
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: let it destroy your peace. Peace. I want to just
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: briefly wrap up the pod by discussing with you, what
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: would you say to your daughter if you're in the
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: bakery and that happened, and rather than pulling out your
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: phone and filming it and then putting on social media
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: so that everybody could become irate about it, you decided
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to maybe say something quietly to him like that was
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: not appropriate, And then you take your daughter a ount
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and you have a chat with her. What do you
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: think is the best conversation around that?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: For me, this is the perfect place to use the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: three e's of effective discipline. This is an opportunity, a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: teaching opportunity for us to kind of explore how our
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: daughter felt.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's your take on that? Yeah? What do
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you think just happened? How you're feeling about it? What's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: your response?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And then explain what you saw and even have them
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: explain and share their feelings around other times that they
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: might have seen that and how it's impacted other people,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: and then empower them, give them ways that they might
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: respond if you felt like responding is important, or giving
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the opportunities to just this is just some random dude,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: just walk away.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Like you don't need to create the conflict and the tension.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: You don't need to create, and you're not going to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: change him.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You will not change him. But would you go to
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: him for advice? Would you go to him for advice?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: And if you wouldn't go to him for advice, why
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: would you listen to his criticism?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Like I said, a kudos to this mum for standing
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: up for a daughter. I think that it's important for
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: our children to feel like we've got their backs. But
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I also just think if we want more kindness in
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the world, then we actually have to start with us.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It has to start with us, and so we have
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to find better ways to combat these kinds of challenges.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: What's your take? Would what would you do?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I like to explore explaining power model. That's
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: where I was going to go. Everyone thinks it's only
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: about discipline, but it's actually about wrestling. It's about solving problems,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and discipline really is about solving problems anyway, So yeah,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: explore where he's sitting. Had you feel about that? What
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: do you think about what I did? Are you happy
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: with what I did? Would you have preferred that I'd
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: done something else? If you could go back and do
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it again? What would you do if my mum did that?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I would have been just mortified that she confronted him. Yes, yeah, yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: so that would have amplified your worries and anxieties about it. Yeah. Interesting, Yeah,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I guess everybody's different there. I would definitely use as
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: a teaching moment. I would be teaching my daughters. Healthy
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: men help the people around them feel safer and stronger.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: He's just not a healthy man. These are people that
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: we don't need in our lives. There are enough good
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: men around us, we don't need to spend any time
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: near them. And the world is imperfect, and as a teenager,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: you are going to be increasingly confronted by imperfect people.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: So you can confront them or you can just walk away.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Well, and I would continue the conversation in light of
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: the choices that they're going to make as they continue
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: to grow and move on to next stages of life.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Like when you start dating and you're looking for a
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: life partner, you're looking for somebody who's who you want
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: to spend.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Or just someone that you want to have some fun
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: with because you're dating them.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, then these are qualities that you don't want.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And if you start feeling this way because somebody is
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: mistreating you, red flags, it's instant, yeah, instant.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: No.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: One of my proudest moments as father was one of
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: our one of our kids broke up with a boyfriend because,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: in her words, he didn't help me feel safer and stronger.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my goodness, it's working. So that's
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the story. We'll linked to thenews dot com dot you
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: article in case you want to be increasingly outraged. But
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I think we've probably done a fair amount of service
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: just here, Thanks so much for listening. The Happy Families
• 14:35
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