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What can you do when change hits? · Head Shrink Inc.

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  SPEAKER_09: Today on Head Trink Inc., we're going to talk about why people change and what you can do to help.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_09: Hey, welcome to Head Trink Inc.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_09: I'm Doc David, and with me is my bro, Dan Bates.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, oh hey.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_09: Hey.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_09: You don't have to we probably don't have to yell, right?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_09: Because the our my new mic is here and I'm pretty excited about that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_09: Hey, welcome to the show, Dan Bates.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_09: Hey.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_09: It's because of my speaker attended.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, so today let's talk about hey.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_09: Let's talk about why um people change.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_09: And you had brought up the idea that um, you know, what what do you do when someone changes in a relationship?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_09: And I was thinking about that and thought there's three things related to a spouse or a partner or anyone changing in a relationship.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_09: And the three things I thought of were mental health, physical health, and relationship health.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_08: Well, that's a lot of health.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_09: I know it is.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_09: It's a lot, it's a lot of stuff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_09: So let me break those down into um break it down.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_09: More easily digestible things for you, Dan.
• 2:15
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• 2:17
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  SPEAKER_09: All right.
• 2:37
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• 2:38
  SPEAKER_09: So the mental health piece is when the person changes with mental health, um, usually, and tell me if I'm wrong, how you identify that is there's irrational behavior, erratic behavior, and uh there's a sudden onset to this behavior.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_09: Right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_09: So do you have an example of change with mental health?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_09: No.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_09: You don't see I knew you would.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_09: So here's my ex here's my example.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_09: So what?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_09: Go, go.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_09: So my example of um changing a relationship that relates to mental health is when someone experiences like a traumatic event in their life, and there's like either, you know, a lot of times you see it as PTSD, or someone um kind of a switch flips in their life, and then um they start to get schizophrenic, they have schizophrenic um issues, or there's suicidal ideation that there's not usually a buildup to that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_09: It's one day you aren't, and then the next day you are.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_08: Or even um situational things change, like the loss of a child.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah um statistically, couples who lose a child, the percentage of them breaking up is extremely high.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_08: It's almost near impossible to stay together if you lose a child.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_09: But if you do stay together after losing a child, the chances of you You're a very different-looking couple.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and then also uh just even like I know from me and my wife, when we had a kid, um, there were points where my wife became kind of depressed and then kind of bounced back, and then I became kind of depressed and bounced back.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_09: So is that is that change?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_09: So you're saying situational, like in terms of because I'm thinking almost that doesn't that fall into relational a little bit?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_09: I guess that would be mental health.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_08: It lasted for so long it felt like a permanent change, but it wasn't.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_08: Like when sh when my wife first got married with our first child, she got depressed, and it was um because it's just and I didn't feel it at all, and then she kind of bounced back, and then when we had the kid, I got depressed.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_08: Because it's like the reality of because I think for her, the change, I mean, there's there's a natural processing that happens with change.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_08: And for her, the fact that her body changed just made it real.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_08: For me, it wasn't real at all.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_09: Like so you're saying when she first when she went through the pregnancy, yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_09: And then when the baby showed up, that's when you experienced that kind of yeah, like when when the kid was there and my life changed.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_08: For her, the change had already happened.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, like the kid was there, it was present.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_08: For me, it was more just a conceptual thing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_08: And when Layla was born, it was like, oh my gosh, I have to like, my whole world revolves around this kid now because I have to keep him alive.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and my life changes as a result of having a kid.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_09: So, what about your s when your second kid was born?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_08: No change at all.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_08: Nothing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_08: Just like, okay.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_08: Onto the next thing, what's what's on Netflix?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_08: Be quiet, kids.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_09: I'm trying to watch a movie over here.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_09: Pipe down.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_09: I love your pictures that you send me every once in a while of your of you doing childcare with your daughters.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_09: It's great.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_09: So in terms of mental health, then the irrational behavior, erratic behavior, sudden change, and then you could say you could add to that situational, um, is there's change that happens related to mental health that's situational.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_09: And again, I think that um situational would be like you, that's a great description of it as you talked about it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_09: It could also be, you know, a person that we care for a lot dies, and so then that's potentially situational because we're sad for hopefully we're sad for an appropriate period of time, and then we kind of come out of it, you know, potent come out of that sadness potentially.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_09: I'd throw another one out there.
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• 8:35
  SPEAKER_08: Job loss.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_08: I I have seen couples when the one partner loses their job, and um I think people get derive a lot of their identity from their jobs.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_08: So when they lose their job, a big piece of their identity is missing and they're kind of lost, and it really impacts the marriage.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_09: So um there's a societal, uh I think a societal um piece plays in that because yeah, traditionally, you know, man is man is the guy is supposed to be out winning bread money.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_09: And if they lose their job and it's all kind of reliant upon the wife or the woman in the relationship to go out and earn the income, that could be I've seen that where men kind of become depressed.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_09: And it's interesting because they'll just sit at home and be bummed or depressed or unable to get out of this funk that they're in.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_09: And in my mind, I'm thinking the thing that's gonna get you out of that is if you go back and start looking for a job, but they're stuck, they get they get stuck in that situation, in the mental health um relationship.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_09: So um mental health issues.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_09: So the next one is physical health.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_09: So physic, how physical health can change a relationship, how you identify if it's uh physical health, one of the things that kind of immediately jumped to my mind was prolonged pain issues.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_09: Um it was about a year ago that I had uh a bulging disc and it was super painful, and it was it lasted for a long period of time, and it really changed my thinking about things.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_09: And I can understand why people um either attempt suicide with that have prolonged pain issues or get addicted to opiates or things like that, because you're looking for any kind of relief of pain, and so I think that that's a that's something that affects relationships.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_09: Um, there's physical symptoms that can't be treated, and some would say they're maybe psychosomatic, but I I'm not gonna go down that route because that would be you know a whole other conversation.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_09: But there's the chronic fatigue syndrome, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_08: Some say that's not an actual thing, but but others believe that it's an actual syndrome, and there's I think that's a syndrome, but the fibromyalgia, that's the kind of what I think has some controversy, which I think now is it doesn't really hold water because there's a physiological basis for it.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_09: So that's something that could affect relationship because I know I've seen couples where there's one uh couple that has uh fibromyalgia like symptoms and they're just unable to interact in ways that you know you would want to interact in a relationship, you know, go out and hang out.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_08: I know of a couple couples, a few couples, where there's been a diagnosis of MS.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_08: You know, in while in the relationship, and so I mean, as you know with MS, the person's physical capacity just drops, drops, drops, and you know, it it it can ultimately be fatal.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_08: So that's a huge, huge uh uh impact on the relationship because then you have to deal with a partner who is limited, not by choice though, yeah, versus a partner who's let's say depressed and is limited.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_08: And I think it's so there's a couple I I worked with a while back where one partner uh got heavily into their depression and just couldn't get out of bed.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_08: And so the other partner couldn't get how well just just get up, just go do something, you know?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_08: And they couldn't understand how the mental health piece was impacting their functioning, and so it became a growing rift between them.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_09: Do you and did it get resolved?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_08: I think they just live in an unhappy relationship.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_08: They w they're they're willing to stay, but they're not willing to like.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_09: I've seen another I I saw a similar relationship where there were there the wife was in pain from some something, and so she was addicted to opioids and kind of just lived in this state of addiction, and the husband didn't like it, but he just didn't know what else he could do.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_09: And yeah, it's unfortunate.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_09: So the other part of the physical health change is physic so the that one was physical symptoms that can't be treated, and then physical symptoms that can be treated, um, and and that how that could change a relationship is that a person that has these physical, so let's say cancer, for example.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_09: Um when a person has cancer or thyroid issues, or I'm thinking of like lupus or something like that, where there is a treatment regimen for those kinds of issues, but then there's a lot of doctor's appointments and a lot of appointments, you know, maybe physical therapy appointments, or even like for diabetes, there's a lot, or kidney dialysis, there's a lot of appointments that the person needs to go to, and so then a I think I would think a relationship gets changed because maybe you want to do something with your spouse, but you can't because they're physically limited, or they have um you know appointments that get in the way of you being able to go out and do something as a family or as a couple.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_09: Um the the third area that I think that people tend to um have change in is in relationship.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_09: And I think this is where we, you know, at least Dan and I, this is a lot of what our focus is geared on is the changes that happen in relationships.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_09: And I think how you identify the relationship health is in my mind, and Dan, you can tell me if you disagree or not, but the change that happens in relationships is not usually sudden change, it's something that happens over a period of time.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_09: Um it there's generally there's often a lack of interest in similar things, and um resolvable issues become battles to the death.
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  SPEAKER_03: Metrics don't match across teams, and inevitably, users lose trust.
• 15:23
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• 15:47
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  SPEAKER_03: Not because the AI got lucky, because it knows your business and its data.
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• 16:42
  SPEAKER_09: Um if if any of those things are going on in your in your relationship with somebody, I would say that that's a pretty good indication that the change that's happening in your relationship is is not mental health and it's not based on physical health, but it's based on relationship issues.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_09: Um I mean, do you have any I mean do you have anything to add to that?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, there's probably lots of different things you can add to that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_08: Um, yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_08: Like uh I worked with a case where the change that happened was in somebody's beliefs and worldview.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_09: So how can you be more descriptive?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_08: Like uh the the two members in the relationship held to a faith.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_08: They they were both of a faith.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_08: And somebody one partner's faith dropped off, like they changed their beliefs and their worldview.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_08: So the one one partner still maintained their faith versus the other one was just no longer that faith.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_08: And so um I've seen this I've seen this a couple times where maybe and maybe it's not faith, but just worldview changes in a significant way where they both had shared values or a shared worldview, and one partner drastically changed in another way.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_08: Oh man, no, so then it's like then it's like you're in relationship where you were of kind of the same mind.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_08: Like you could dialogue about things and approach things from common ground and then relate and understand each other uh and and challenge each other in this frame of thinking, and then the other person switches and and is like on a different so is that a gradual switch, or I mean, in your experience of of knowing these people, is do you think it was a gradual switch or was it something that I think it can appear sudden because people will start to change, but they won't talk about it because they're afraid to, or they'll they'll mention something early on and then test the waters and realize it's not safe to do it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_08: So they keep it to themselves and then they just get sick of it or bitter or tired, and then they're like, forget it, I'm just gonna come clean and say this is where I'm at.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_08: So you accept me for this, or you know, we change, we part ways.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_09: I saw, I think we both saw that with a uh guy that we knew that was a pastor, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_09: And I don't know, you might have more intimate details of how it happened, but I don't think that was a sudden a sudden thing.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_09: I think what you describe is he just slowly got tired of living a lifestyle that I don't know, did he not like he didn't like the lifestyle or it was too overwhelming, or it was not congruent to what he was thinking.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I don't know if that's an example of this because I think that's a case where somebody had kind of more of a narcissistic personality and wanted control and didn't want so he couldn't delegate work, he couldn't he was a workaholic, like he couldn't take vacations or take he didn't have good work-life balance, so to say, so to speak.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_08: Like he just did everything was a micromanager, and then people wouldn't follow him the way he wanted, it wouldn't conform to his expectations, or the outcomes didn't happen the way he was hoping.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_08: So he just eventually got sick of it, and then just thought the whole belief structure was a load of croc and based on some of his experiences, and then just totally left the I hadn't heard that before.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_09: So you're saying in that instance it was more of a mental health relationship, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_09: Like he ch he changed.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_09: It's kind of a mental health, spiritual health double whammy where I didn't add the spiritual health in there, but uh yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_08: Where he yeah, like I said, so when you're a leader, you need to work with people, you need to delegate work, you need to have boundaries.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_08: A servant leader.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_08: And this guy had no boundaries, didn't delegate work, and then when he worked with other people, he was very controlling, kind of a micromanager, and if people weren't just in agreement with him, he'd be very upset and nasty, and it kind of just festered over nine years, and then it's interesting because I never saw that part.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and you did see that, I did see it, and I heard about it, and it's interesting.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_08: Like, I worked with the borderline case once, and the person couldn't see the personality disorder.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_08: So whenever you talk to them about it, it's like, what?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_08: What are you talking about?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_08: I'm great, yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_08: But you see this wake of destruction all around them.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_08: Like everybody else around them in this per this person's life has addictions and disorders and illnesses and just are hurting.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_08: So it's like it's like the I.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_08: The storm.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_08: You look at the eye of the storm, there's nothing there, there's nothing going around.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_08: But then right around is like the swirling mass of chaos.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_09: That's interesting.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_09: So I think one of the biggest things, and I wrote this down, is that when a spouse changes, um I think the resentfulness kind of builds, can easily get um can easily happen in the relationship because you have these expectations.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, I just even imagine my relationship if I started um you know not doing family time, and eh, I don't really I wanna I wanna become a hiker, and I'm gonna go out on these hikes, and I'm gonna start joining a hiking club, and I just kind of do that on my own without you know having a conversation with my wife about it.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_09: She's not gonna be happy about that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_09: And um I think resentfulness builds up, and then resentfulness leads to this lack of intimacy, and it's not just sexual intimacy, but it's intimacy related to relationships with kids, uh, raising kids together and and things like that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_09: Um I don't know what so what do you think are some what are some solutions?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_09: Because one of the things that I often hear is when I work with couples, like, oh, we just don't love each other anymore, or we just fell out of love, or we just don't have similar interests anymore to one another.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_08: I was so I want to write a blog about this because I think I need to put I need to I need to put it on paper in order to sort what I think out because I got a couple different ideas.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_08: I think kind of what you're saying, like there's an initial shock slash anger.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_08: Because it's not you you're not the person I used to know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_08: And we like people like consistency, they like having predictability, and the person's no longer as predictable as they they were.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_08: So I think there's an initial shock and anger, and then you're left with a choice of what do I do?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_08: Are they just so fundamentally different that I'm no longer gonna continue, or do I dig lean in, so to speak, lean in to the experience, and try to try to build on something that's not there, that's not really there.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_08: So for me, that building on is acceptance and rediscovery.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_08: That's what I think is the solution.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_08: You accept them for the new person they are, and then you have to rediscover how their changes fit with you.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_09: So that's not gonna, I don't disagree with you on that, but that's not gonna apply to every case because I've I've had cases where um it was a couple and the man decided that he liked men.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_09: Right?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_09: And so then the wife was kind of like, what?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_09: How is this gonna make our how does this work in our relationship?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_09: So there's a there's I'm I there's a little pushback on that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_08: The first case, an organ of a of a man claiming non-binary gender.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_08: So he's not he's not saying he's male or female.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_08: So he he's clearly a guy, and he dresses as a female, okay, but he doesn't shave, he hasn't changed his voice, he's not gonna change his genitalia.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_08: But he doesn't identify as male or female.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_08: Is he married?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_08: He's married to a woman, okay, and they're still in the relationship.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_08: And sh they're they're both they value the partner enough so they're gonna continue the relationship, but he no longer identifies as a male.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_08: He's not transitioning to female, and but he wants to continue the marriage, and so she's gonna continue it with him.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_09: So he's a guy that just likes to he likes to dress up in a woman's clothes.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_08: No, he doesn't.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_08: You and I can debate uh the identity thing, yeah, but he doesn't identify as male or female.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_08: But he's biologically male.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_08: He's biologically male.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_08: He he's it's not a case of like transvestite.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, so this this case that I'm talking about was several years ago, and it wasn't it wasn't to what you're talking about.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_09: It was basically a married couple where the man said he's he's attracted to men, and that was the route that he was wanting to go down.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_09: And so the so the the wife couldn't lean in, so to speak, in in that instance, because he was wanting to, you know, and they had been married for like 10 years or something and they had kids.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_09: Um so I mean I think right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, how could she lean in?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_09: I all I'm saying is that I don't think it's gonna relate to every it's not possible all the time to lean in, is it?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_09: Or are you arguing that it is?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_08: No, I'm not arguing that it is, but I mean there's cases where someone will go through such a radical change as their gender is different or their sexual orientation is different, but people will continue in the relationship.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_09: Have you have you ever experienced with Molly, like you have this random thought and you share it, and she's like, What are you thinking?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_09: Because it's so outside of what she's used to.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_08: Um I think we've done that one, we're like sick of we're just kind of frustrated.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_08: So we'll say, Oh, I'm just gonna leave my job and go do a go work on a resort cruise.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_09: Something like that.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_09: So I so with my wife, that's happened where I'm always hearing weird ideas, and so then I I will think about these ideas.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_09: It doesn't she's pretty stable, but she and I'm this vision guy, so I'm always thinking, like, oh, this is an interesting thought, or this is an interesting thing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_09: So in Washington State, when um marijuana was gonna be legalized, I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess I'm I I don't know if it's a that big of a deal if it gets legalized.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_09: And this was just horrific for her.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_09: Like, you want to start smoking weed now?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_09: What is and for me, it's like, no, I don't want to start smoking weed.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_09: I just want to like, I'm I'm just kind of considering this idea that would I ever and I remember asking myself this question, would I ever smoke weed if it was legal?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_09: And it is now legal, and I have not smoked.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_08: But you were like considering like being a pot grower, a dispenser.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_09: Well, even that, I was I was considering that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_09: Or is it even voting yes to legalize it?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_09: And then they then we had the conversation about um, well, we do have a little property.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_09: What I wonder if I could grow some here and then sell it to dispensaries.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_09: And she was it's when I say things like that, she gets a little bit like, okay, what's what's going on?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_09: Because it throws her for a loop sometimes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_09: And for me, it's just kind I just like to have the conversation, I like to think about it, but it doesn't mean that that's my route that I'm gonna go down.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_09: And so I think there's if you're in a relationship, I think that's something to pay attention to.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_09: Because simply, if someone just wants to have a conversation about it, I don't think you should automatically be threatened by the conversation.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_09: Like you were talking about, um, I think it's the couple that you worked with, that any team that's tested AI tools for data has seen the pattern already.
• 29:55
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• 29:58
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• 31:21
  SPEAKER_09: The guy brought up an idea.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_09: He brought up an idea, but then the wife had such a strong reaction that he's like, oh, I guess I better not bring up that idea again.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_09: And so then this idea kind of was started uh taking root right behind the scenes where the wife wasn't aware of it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_09: So what would you have suggested then?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_09: If you want to respond to if you could have gone back, if you could have gone back and helped them out, helped them manage it a little bit better, or for someone that's listening to this show that thinks, you know what, I don't see eye to eye with my spouse or partner on these things, what would be a suggestion that you would offer on how to yeah?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, well, it's difficult, and I know I've I've definitely been guilty of it myself is if your your spouse or your partner says something kind of radical, not like I'm gonna go murder somebody, but I'm thinking of this idea that's kind of a drastic change from where our life was going before.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_08: And I think the the initial reaction is like, oh, what's that mean for me?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_08: Like, do I I have to adjust to this new frame of thought?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_08: And I think early in my relationship with my wife, we would say things like that, and we would get in these big fights because it would freak the other person out.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_08: And now we realize like it's not as dire if someone is thinking about something new or different.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and so we just listen to each other and kind of I've I've found if my wife has a really horrible day at work, she's antsied to like leave that job and go to another job, or something like that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_08: And I get freaked out, like, oh my gosh, you know, how are we gonna pay for our bills if she's not making this amount?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_08: And I'm starting to think about like what it all means, and I think that's not helpful, and I think it actually just creates a fight when one isn't necessary because that's how they're feeling in the moment, and they're just considering things, and it's you know, people are pretty stable, so if they're talking to you about it, that's good.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, once they start talking about it, that's when you need to get worried.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_09: Um, once they stop talking to you about it, yeah.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_08: If they're if they're kind of like that example we talked about where the guy was in a leadership position and was just had a growing kind of difference of opinion with his spouse and with his work, and but he's not telling anybody about it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_08: Um and so it's just a thought that becomes a belief and a belief that becomes a lifestyle.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_08: And then everybody else is catching up at the lifestyle stage.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, we're not seeing the progress from from before.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_08: So I mean, if if your spouse is talking to you about it, I'd say that's a good sign.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_08: And and just listen and talk with them about it and don't freak out.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_08: Lean in.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_08: What's what does this mean for me?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_08: Don't go to that level.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, just stay at okay, they're telling me about this thing, I'll just write it out and listen.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_08: I'm not gonna write it out.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_08: I'm not gonna Oh, you mean like okay, not on a piece of paper.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_08: No, no, no, no.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_08: I'm just gonna hang in, I'm gonna ride the wave, and I'm not gonna freak out in terms of what it means for me.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_09: So someone told my wife long ago that because I'm this dreamer type person, so I'll say these outrageous things that I wanted, like I would I'd love to go live in a castle in England and be a resident director at this Bible school.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_09: I think it'd be so delightful.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_09: Um that my wife when I would say that, my wife would cringe because it meant that wait, that means I could I would have to leave my family and I couldn't see my family.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_09: And so she would poo-poo these dreams or crush my dreams.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_09: And uh with her with her words.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_09: And I think that's what often happens is that you know, whether it's this uh the female or the male, they share their dream of something, and because the other person feels threatened by it, they say, Well, you know that'll never happen.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_09: Or what are you gonna do about this, and what are you gonna do about this?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and what are you gonna do about your bills, etc.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_09: etc.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_09: And so this person told me 90% of those things that I do with it are never gonna happen.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_09: And so she should just, oh, I guess, whoops, I guess we have cheering going on because my thing that it says is so amazing.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_09: Um that was inadvertent.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_08: Nothing David says is gonna happen.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_09: That was inadvertent, sorry.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_09: Um but anyways, so let your let your partner spouse talk.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_09: Let them talk about their dreams.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_09: Because most of it, most of the dreams aren't gonna happen.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_09: They just want to be.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, that's true.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_09: Like, I know that we're I'm probably not gonna live in a castle in England and be a resident director of a Bible school.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_09: I just think it's this fantasy that I have in my life.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_09: Here's another fantasy that I have.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_09: Two other fantasies.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_09: Let's talk about fantasies.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_09: Chickens.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_09: My dream.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_09: I have this fantasy about having chickens, but the real and so I will tell my wife, wouldn't it be cool to get like a chicken coop and have free-range chickens and we have eggs and everything.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_09: They did get bees.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_09: So not all your dreams are bees.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_09: Bees are easy though.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_09: Chickens, I know that the reality is that they would come out to you'd want them to stay on your lawn out in the woods, but they'd come onto your driveway and poop everywhere.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_09: So, or I was just at a family reunion and I've always thought, oh, it wouldn't be cool to have a ranch.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_09: And I met actual ranchers, and I realized, oh, a ranch is a lot of work and it's a lot of animal fluids.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_09: You have to touch a lot of animal fluids that I just wouldn't want to touch.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_09: And so it's a good fantasy, but but the reality is not there.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_09: And so I I think that if you are married to a dreamer or in a relationship with a dreamer, um, let them dream.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_09: Because honestly, most of their dreams won't come true.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, but what what about the topic of the podcast?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_08: If someone changes, yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_09: What do you do if someone changes?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_09: I think you you said it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_09: You listen to them, you talk with him.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_09: It's good.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_09: It's good.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_09: Problem solved.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_09: No, I mean if someone I but I think it's preventing that change because I think when a person where a person changes is that because they'd they never had a sounding board, they never had someone to interact with.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_09: And so they changed in a void.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_09: Right?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_09: So how I how I view this couple that you talk about is if the guy could have talked to the spouse, and if he could have interacted with her and they could have had a mutual understanding, I don't I think the change the end um the outcome would have been different.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_09: I I don't think there I don't think there would have been as dramatic of a change, and as you said, she all of a sudden w saw this lifestyle that she didn't know what was really going on, allegedly.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_09: And I think that if he had been able to say to her, I mean, can you describe what the change what the thing was that he said and then Which which case or like the the one that you were talking about, the case that you had where he tried to talk to his wife and then she just blew up.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_09: And so then he went underground with it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_09: And I think he went underground and then he cultivated that and it was kind of harboring that and keeping and protecting it from the wife.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_09: Whereas I think if he if they could have been a bit more mature in how they had the interaction, the change wouldn't have been s uh so extreme, maybe, or wouldn't have been so sudden, or it would have been different, because maybe then the wife and he could have had an interaction where they agreed on something a little bit more easily.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I think so.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_08: I think that's a good first step is just listen.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_08: If they're talking to you, it's a good thing.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and then I think that the the other part where it gets really messed up is if someone's talking about change, it threatens your own stability.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_08: It threatens your life.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_09: Well, especially if you're inner, you know, if you're intertwined with them with your life.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, like if they're your spouse or partner or child, um it threatens your lifestyle.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_08: And you may like your lifestyle or you don't want it to change, or change is just scary.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_08: So I think that on a like a kind of almost philosophical level, you have to just kind of accept that people change.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_08: Like over the course of your marriage, your spouse will not be the same.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_08: And so I mean, at some point you have to accept that, and you can't be so resistant, I think, to the fact of the other person changing.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_08: Because if that's the way you're gonna approach life, I think you're gonna uh push the person, the other person over the edge to like almost fight for the change instead of being open to it.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, like if you had a dream and Lou like pushed back on it, you're probably gonna fight for it a little more than like hear her side of it of like, okay, yeah, if we got chickens, they'd poop on the driveway and they'd be all this work and they'd probably cluck at night and disrupt our sleep.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_08: Like that's maybe where she's coming from because she doesn't want chickens.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, she sees the downsides.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_08: So you would probably be more open to that if she wasn't like, no way, we're not getting chickens, there's no way in the channel.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_09: Well, she didn't.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_09: It's funny because she didn't want bees, and so she said, Oh great, you're gonna be spending all your time with the bees, and I just and so it's funny because hey, where's David?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, he's out with his bees, hanging out with the bees.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_09: Because I will go out there and sit and just kind of watch them go in and out.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_09: It is it is so satisfying to me for some reason.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_09: I think it's it it stimulates my ADD receptors or whatever it is.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_09: But it's so satisfying to sit and just watch them go in and out, and then every once in a while one of them adds pollen on its legs.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_09: I'm like, yeah, that's right.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_09: But they don't take up my time any more than anything else.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_09: I just want to set up a chair next to your chair and just watch real watching the bees with a satisfied live.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_09: I should get a live cam out here.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_09: This is this is this is amazing stuff.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_09: But no, so so with the bees, it's we had an initial conversation about it, and I'm saying that because she poo-pooed the bee idea.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_09: Um but I I just went and did it anyways, and it hasn't turned out like she thought it was gonna turn out.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_09: It's like I don't I don't spend any extra time out there with them.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_09: So I I definitely think that the importance of having a mature conversation about whatever the the topic is, yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_09: Like but I think it the the issue is like when a couple find one another that have spiritual compatibility, like they go to the same church, they have the same spiritual beliefs, and then over time that changes.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_09: That's like a big that's a really hard thing versus yeah, I don't like vanilla ice cream as much as I did when we first got married.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_08: Or I want to take up a new hobby.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, how hard is it for couples when somebody wants to take up a new hobby and it might take up time?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_08: Like that's a huge thing, but then when you talk about more fundamental issues of your worldview, your spirituality, your job changing, um, your sexual orientation changing, it's it's a radical change for the other person to adapt to.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_09: And and that's where I think that um if you don't I don't think there's any great solution for that.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_09: I think the best solution actually is having.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_09: Conversations about it because if you don't have the conversations about it, then the person's gonna do it in secret, and then all of a sudden one day they quit their job.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_08: So I want to talk about what that conversation looks like, and I think it looks like being honest about how their changes affect you, but not being mad that they're changing.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_08: Because I think it gets to what we were what I was saying before is at some level you have to accept that people change.
• 44:31
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• 45:32
  SPEAKER_08: Like I can't, it's unreasonable.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_08: There's a word you like.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_08: It's unreasonable to expect your spouse to always be the same person throughout the entire course of your relationship or marriage.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, don't you think that's true?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I think it's reason so I think it's reasonable to um expect your spouse to be be of good character, to not be a liar, to not steal.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_09: I think there's character issues that I think are reasonable to expect.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_09: I think maybe tell me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're talking about is interests.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_09: Um because if what if I marry somebody because they have good they have a good work ethic, and then they one day they wake up and they just have a horrible work ethic, which I don't think that would happen.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_09: That's a care I I think that's like a character issue.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_09: So what what would you do with that?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_09: Well, that's where I think, is this a relationship thing, mental health thing, or a physical thing?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_09: Because I I would tend to think that it's it's potentially more of a mental health thing, because character, like character is ingrained in people, and I don't think that I wouldn't expect that to change over time.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_09: Would you?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_08: Does character change over time?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, are we talking about personality?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_09: Integrity.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_09: Let's say it's integrity, you know, always being honest about things.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_09: That's a character issue.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna say that can change, but I think that no amount of conversation, like if we're married and I and you say to me, hey David, I've been thinking about lying more.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_09: You know, I'm gonna say, what are you talking about?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_09: I don't lie enough these days.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_09: What are you talking about?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_09: I really need to avoid lying.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_09: But if you say, David, I I'm showing a big interest in uh drones, I think I'm gonna join this drone club.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_09: That I think is reasonable to expect.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_09: Um I don't know.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, maybe it's something we need to, you know, think about more.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I mean, the there I I think the popular opinion in among psychologists is that personality doesn't change.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_08: So you so personality traits are stable over time.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_08: That's I think that's the status quo.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_08: We'll just say the status quo.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_08: So I think, but I I mean to me that doesn't that doesn't explain everything because I do think there are matters of character, and there are matters of kind of like your moral sensibility, your worldview sensibility, your interests, like those can shape you and can shape your personality.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_09: So let's focus on that.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_09: So then how does what should a person do?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_09: Like, how do how do you address that?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_08: Let me okay, let me give you an example.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_08: I think when I was in my late teens, early twenties, I was like extroverted to the nth degree.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_08: I don't think anybody was more extroverted than me.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_08: Because I came out of this shell of like my childhood, which was like a very introverted environment, and I wasn't an introvert.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_08: So when I was able to kind of get out of my home and be around people and be social, I was like pendulum swing to the other end of extroverted.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_08: And I think now in like my 30s, I'm not nearly as extroverted as I was.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_08: Like the the the Dan at 20 is not the Dan at 30.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_08: Like you will you'll joke with me all the time about how I don't want to connect.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_08: And there's a part of me like I genuinely don't want to connect.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_08: I'm gonna like burn it here first today.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_08: Honesty.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_08: I would I would rather like work on a writing project than hanging out with some some people in my mind.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_08: Um and I mean part that's situational, like work is now more prevalent in my life than school and two young children.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_08: Two young children, married, opening up my private practice more.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_08: So I mean that's situational, but there's also like I think a fundamental part of me that is different from the 20-year-old self, where I just don't, I'm not as excited to connect with people.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_08: So is that personality?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_08: I think so.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, extroversion is a personality trait.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so then the psychologists are wrong.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_09: Personality can change.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_08: But I think so.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_08: This is where they would say is I think that trait is modified.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_08: I'm not, I'm not, I have not shifted from intro extrovert to introvert.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_08: I think my extroversion has just modified.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_09: So then if you were married at 20, if you got married and you were an introvert.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_09: Right, and then all of a sudden Yeah, that's a huge change.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_09: So how would uh how do you think that should be addressed?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_08: With man, so I I think the the I'm gonna go with my three-step plan.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_08: You know, you can you can tell me if you don't think it will work or not, but discuss the changes, accept the person, and rediscover them in in a new way.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_08: Because this gets a actually, so David and I were having a conversation off the air beforehand about John Gottman.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_08: I'm sure we've talked about him on head shrinking multiple times.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_08: But one of his um markers for a successful marriage um is do partners uh actively engage in the other person's world?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_08: And so I think this is what partners have to do when the other person changes, is you have to re-figure them out, and so it sucks to do.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_08: I don't want to do it, I'm I don't want to do that with my wife.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_08: I like my wife as she is.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_08: Please don't change.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_08: But if you did, I I think I'm invested enough in in my wife to try to figure the new part of her out.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_09: But I think so.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_09: What goes with your plan though is that, and and it's why I brought up the three different types of um three areas where people could change, is that in relationships it's not gonna be simple like mental health, where mental health could be one day you're fine, and the next day you have a psychotic break.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_09: Right?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_09: That's not how change typically works in a relationship, where one day you're not a hiking buff, and then the next day you just want to hike non-stop to the exclusion of everything else.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_09: There's a buildup to it.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_08: I'm thinking that that video we saw that we kind of criticized with the it was an engaged couple, and then the guy had like a severe uh brain aneurysm and was like debilitated, and and like cognitively, like his brain function was gone, he was physically incapacitated, and she married him anyways.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_08: And that is such a rare case, though, right?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_08: That that that's because the act because that is an example of the common course of action is to leave.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I think that's what most people do.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_08: If your spouse changes, you leave.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and and so this is where I think David and I would come at a different approach, is saying maybe that's not the best uh response.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_08: Because research shows leaving?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_08: Leaving, yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I wouldn't say maybe, I would say that is not the best response.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_08: But I but I think it's it's the common response.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, yeah.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_09: If your spouse changes in a big way, I'm out.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_09: Well, another common response is I'm gonna find someone else that is more compatible.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_09: Like I have a couple I'm working with right now, that I'm gonna find someone else that's more compatible, but stay married.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_09: So that's how affairs happen, right?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_09: Um, where at some point maybe you should have just gone with this more compatible person because then you don't have to deal with all the fallout of the affair.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_09: But I'm not advocating affairs, but yeah, I I think people often will leave.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_08: Well, and I because partly if your spouse changes, that means you have to change.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_09: And I deserve to be happy, and that's not gonna make me happy, so I'm going to.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_08: False expectations too.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_08: I think the false expectation is I deserve to be happy from my relationship, and my spouse will never change.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_08: The person I married is the person I'm gonna marry.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_09: Should never change, or should never change.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_08: Or shouldn't change.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_08: And I think those false expectations set you up for disaster.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_08: And then the other piece is if your child ch uh spouse changes or your partner changes, that means you need to change too.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_09: In order to stay.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_09: Which change is hard, but it's it's a good it can be a good thing.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_09: But the the thing that I would want to impress to people is that like in relationships, the relationship um circle or sphere, it's not gonna if you're not talking with your spouse, you're gonna be shocked when you when your spouse makes that sudden announcement that they're leaving you because you guys have nothing in common.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_09: Hopefully, you would have recognized that several years before that, you know, yeah comment happened from your spouse.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_09: Um so that's where I think it's important to have conversations that are difficult about things that maybe you don't always see eye to eye on.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_09: Parenting is another one where one spouse thinks that spanking is okay and the other spouse thinks that spanking is not okay.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_09: Or one spouse says, Well, we should give an allowance, and another spouse says, No, we shouldn't give an allowance.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_09: And then if you don't have a conversation about it, then secretly the one the one partner is slipping money to the kid, and the the kid's out you know, buying weed with it or doing inappropriate things with the money, and then it just creates dysfunction in relationships.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_09: And so I think the important thing is to when a conversation about change comes up is to actually have the conversation.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_09: Um which means you have to be observant.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_08: Because there's kind of a secret love test there.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_08: Like, I'm changing.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_08: Are you gonna notice?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_08: Are you paying attention?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_08: Because if you're not, then that means you don't love me.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_08: And so it it's it's incumbent upon the other partner to be observant.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_08: Like there, I'm into Hannibal, you know, Hannibal.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, I saw your Facebook.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_08: Oh man, I love this show so much.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_08: I saw a first couple episodes, it seemed interesting.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_08: It's it's mind-blowingly good.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_08: And um, so there's uh our our our unofficial sponsor of this show segment is Hannibal.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_08: Hannibal.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_08: You do good work, and um, there's a couple in the show where one uh the wife has cancer and the like the police chief cop guy, he's so busy with work he doesn't know notice her changing.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_08: She's like getting depressed and withdrawing and isolating because she has cancer, okay, and he's not noticing at all, and so she has an affair almost as like a punishment thing to him, but then he notices like she's been quiet and withdrawn and discovers it.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_08: But but I thought that was a really good example of he's not being observant of the changes in his spouse, the subtle changes, yeah, and then if you're not observing them, you're kind of failing the secret love test to some degree.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_08: So you have to be observant of subtle changes because otherwise you'll be hit in the face with big changes.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_08: Hey, so um let's wrap this up.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_08: So where can we con where can people contact you?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_08: Well, you you can go on my uh website, danielbaits.co.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_08: Um.co.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_08: C O.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_08: That's got everything on it.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_08: My books, blog, contact information.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_08: Do you want to give a number?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_09: Where people can contact you if they need to.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, yeah, I've also opened up a new counseling office in East Vancouver.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_08: So you can call me at 360-870-1433 if if you want to set up counseling services.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_09: All right.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_09: Well, thanks for listening.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_09: Hopefully that's been helpful.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_09: If you have any questions, feel free to drop us an email at headshrinkinc at gmail.com.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_09: Take care.
• 58:19
  unknown: Thank you, I feel like we can do this.
• 58:23
  unknown: Thank you, I feel like you feel it.
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