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The GOP Culture War on the Troops · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau I'm Dan
0:22
Speaker 1: Pfeiffer On today's show, Donald Trump sees winning the presidency
0:25
Speaker 1: as his best chance to stay out of jail Rupert
0:28
Speaker 1: Murdoch turns on Ron DeSantis. And other Republican presidential candidates
0:31
Speaker 1: are now paying voters for the chance to get on
0:34
Speaker 1: the debate stage. Then Dan talks with pro-choice Ohio's Kelly
0:38
Speaker 1: Copeland about the effort to enshrine abortion access into Ohio's Constitution.
0:44
Speaker 1: But first, Congress is back in session after another well-deserved break.
0:49
Speaker 1: And MAGA Republicans are doing their best to make Democrats
0:52
Speaker 1: point that they're a gang of culture war-obsessed weirdos who
0:56
Speaker 1: can't govern. The House is trying to pass a traditionally
0:59
Speaker 1: bipartisan defense bill that funds the military, but the Freedom
1:03
Speaker 1: Caucus is threatening to tank it unless they can stop
1:06
Speaker 1: the military from trying to recruit more diverse service members
1:10
Speaker 1: and from offering service members access to health care if
1:14
Speaker 1: they're trans or need an abortion. Meanwhile, over in the Senate,
1:18
Speaker 1: Alabama's Tommy Tuberville has been single-handedly holding up more than
1:22
Speaker 1: 250 military promotions today. in order to stop the Pentagon
1:26
Speaker 1: from providing troops abortion access. And he's also upset that
1:30
Speaker 1: the Pentagon is trying to get white nationalists out of
1:33
Speaker 1: the military, which led to a few additional questions for
1:38
Speaker 1: the senator. Here's how it all went.
1:40
Speaker 2: We are losing in the military so fast our readiness
1:43
Speaker 2: in terms of recruitment. And why? I can tell you why.
1:46
Speaker 2: Because the Democrats are attacking our military saying we need
1:50
Speaker 2: to get out the white extremists, the white nationalists, people
1:52
Speaker 2: that don't don't believe in our agenda as Joe Biden's agenda.
1:58
Speaker 3: You mentioned the Biden administration trying to prevent white nationalists
2:03
Speaker 3: from being in the military. Do you believe they should
2:07
Speaker 3: allow white nationalists in the military?
2:10
Speaker 2: Well, they call them that. I call them Americans.
2:13
Speaker 4: But just to be clear, you agree that white nationalists
2:17
Speaker 4: should not be serving in the U.S.
2:18
Speaker 3: Military.
2:19
Speaker 5: Is that what you're saying?
2:20
Speaker 6: If people think that a white nationalist is a racist,
2:23
Speaker 6: I agree with that.
2:25
Speaker 4: A white nationalist is someone who believes that the white
2:28
Speaker 4: race is superior.
2:29
Speaker 3: To other races.
2:30
Speaker 6: Well, that's some people's opinion. Listen, I'm totally against racism.
2:35
Speaker 6: If Democrats want to say that white nationalists are racist,
2:38
Speaker 6: I'm totally.
2:39
Speaker 2: Against that too.
2:39
Speaker 7: But that's not a democratic definition.
2:41
Speaker 4: The definition of a white nationalist is someone.
2:44
Speaker 2: Well.
2:44
Speaker 5: That's your definition. My definition is racism is bad.
2:48
Speaker 1: The definition is that the belief that.
2:50
Speaker 7: The right race is superior to.
2:51
Speaker 2: All other races. Racism is totally out of the question.
2:54
Speaker 7: So do you believe that white nationalists are racist?
2:56
Speaker 2: Yes, if that's what a race is, yes. Thank you.
3:00
Speaker 1: Look, I don't know how you define white nationalism. You know, the...
3:05
Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of people proud of being white.
3:08
Speaker 1: Proud of being white. Racism, that's bad. That's your definition.
3:11
Speaker 1: That's your definition. Yeah, that's you. Yeah, I don't know
3:13
Speaker 1: where you got your definition from, but everyone is allowed
3:15
Speaker 1: their own definition of everything now. I don't know if
3:17
Speaker 1: you can do your own research, make your own definitions.
3:20
Speaker 1: That's just, that's where we are. So that's who the
3:22
Speaker 1: people of Alabama chose to represent them in the Senate
3:26
Speaker 1: instead of Doug Jones, the Tommy Tuberville. Yesterday, Politico called
3:32
Speaker 1: Tuberville Joe Biden's new favorite foil on the stump, and
3:35
Speaker 1: wrote a piece about how the president keeps going after
3:37
Speaker 1: him over holding up these military promotions. The president at
3:41
Speaker 1: a press conference after the NATO summit today went after
3:44
Speaker 1: him again on these military promotions, saying that it is
3:46
Speaker 1: jeopardizing our military's readiness. Why do you think Biden keeps
3:50
Speaker 1: going after poor Tommy Tuberville?
3:53
Speaker 5: Two reasons. One, I do think Biden has a visceral
3:57
Speaker 5: reaction to a strain of particularly dumb cruelty embodied by
4:01
Speaker 5: Tommy Tuberville. It's why he reacts to Trump the way
4:02
Speaker 5: he does. There's something offensive about Tommy Tuberville, right? And
4:06
Speaker 5: then there's a more political argument here. When I was
4:11
Speaker 5: preparing for this pod, I thought back to a time many,
4:14
Speaker 5: many years ago when Ron Klain and I were both
4:18
Speaker 5: advising a politician, and that politician did something that was
4:20
Speaker 5: so incredibly stupid. And I had to call Ron, who
4:24
Speaker 5: had been chief of staff to the vice president in
4:26
Speaker 5: a big deal, and I had to call him and
4:27
Speaker 5: tell him what this politician that we were both advising did.
4:31
Speaker 5: And what Ron said to me goes, well, Dan, that
4:34
Speaker 5: would be an A-plus answer to the poli-sci essay question
4:37
Speaker 5: of how do you lose an election? And I sort
4:38
Speaker 5: of think that summarizes what Tommy Tuberville is doing with
4:43
Speaker 5: the military and the abortion stuff. He is holding up
4:46
Speaker 5: the promotions of the most and largely only trusted institution
4:51
Speaker 5: in America over abortion, the issue that cost the Republicans
4:54
Speaker 5: the Senate less than a year ago. Of course, Joe
4:56
Speaker 5: Biden should hammer him. Every Democrat should hammer him. It
4:59
Speaker 5: is a political, a massive political misstep from Tuberville that
5:03
Speaker 5: we should absolutely exploit.
5:06
Speaker 1: It also gets to sort of Biden's core message here, right?
5:10
Speaker 1: That like, He's the adult who cares about the entire
5:14
Speaker 1: country while the Republican Party has been taken over by
5:18
Speaker 1: extremists who want to, you know, take away our freedoms,
5:21
Speaker 1: cause chaos. And, you know, here's the proof point, a
5:25
Speaker 1: MAGA senator single-handedly weakening our military because he wants to
5:30
Speaker 1: ban abortions, but not white nationalists from the military. It's like,
5:36
Speaker 1: it's the perfect proof point to what Biden's, the contrast
5:39
Speaker 1: that Biden is trying to draw in this election. He's
5:42
Speaker 1: obviously had success in the past going after MAGA extremists
5:47
Speaker 1: and trying to say that MAGA Republicans have taken over
5:49
Speaker 1: the party. And it's also like he's developing a great
5:54
Speaker 1: argument this week, especially, where Biden's abroad, America's leading the
6:00
Speaker 1: world's democracies against a murderous Russian dictator. And at home,
6:05
Speaker 1: he's presiding over an economy with record low unemployment, wages
6:09
Speaker 1: are rising, inflation's falling. It's like the best of any
6:12
Speaker 1: country in the major economy in the world right now.
6:15
Speaker 1: Things are great. And here's a bunch of fucking jokers
6:18
Speaker 1: in Congress, Republicans, who want to jeopardize our military and
6:24
Speaker 1: our economy because they're obsessed with taking away people's freedoms,
6:28
Speaker 1: banning abortion, and standing up for white nationalists, I guess.
6:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like it is just the cherry on top
6:35
Speaker 5: of the ice cream sundae of stupidity that the senator
6:38
Speaker 5: doing this is also the one who can't stop supporting
6:41
Speaker 5: and endorsing white nationalists. It's just, it's perfect. It's absolutely perfect.
6:45
Speaker 1: And it is directly connected to his holdup of all
6:48
Speaker 1: this shit too, because he wrote an op-ed like a
6:50
Speaker 1: couple months ago about the defense bill, where it's not
6:54
Speaker 1: even like he was asked the question on that radio show.
6:56
Speaker 1: In the op-ed, he was like, he was complaining about
6:59
Speaker 1: how our military has to undergo anti-extremism training. And he
7:04
Speaker 1: thinks that's bad, right? So he's like, part of his
7:06
Speaker 1: problem with the defense budget is not just the ban
7:08
Speaker 1: on abortions, but the anti-extremism training that people are undergoing
7:14
Speaker 1: so that we don't have white nationalists in the military. Un-fucking-real.
7:18
Speaker 1: So I don't know what's going to happen about this.
7:19
Speaker 1: Tuberville was asked today, like, I guess Biden said, well,
7:23
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that there's Republican pressure on him from other
7:26
Speaker 1: Republicans to drop this hold. And Tuberville basically said, no,
7:31
Speaker 1: that's not going to work. Republican pressure is not going
7:33
Speaker 1: to change my mind. And then he was complaining that
7:36
Speaker 1: Biden hadn't reached out to him. that it's been hard
7:38
Speaker 1: to talk to Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin about this.
7:41
Speaker 1: And then Lloyd Austin apparently called Tuberville in Tuberville's office
7:44
Speaker 1: just now and was like, no, he's not available for
7:47
Speaker 1: a call this weekend.
7:50
Speaker 5: What do you think he's doing?
7:52
Speaker 1: I mean, who the fuck knows? I don't know where,
7:55
Speaker 1: like what happens here? These military promotions just don't go through?
7:59
Speaker 5: I mean, I assume there's going to be mounting pressure
8:03
Speaker 5: from Republican colleagues. It is always hard to be the
8:06
Speaker 5: one Republican, or the one Senator who has to go
8:10
Speaker 5: to lunch with the other people and be the one
8:12
Speaker 5: standing in the way of something, particularly something this unpopular.
8:15
Speaker 1: So you think the, uh, having to sit alone at
8:17
Speaker 1: the lunch table will finally, uh, finally move it forward?
8:20
Speaker 5: No, I think maybe he'll have to sit down. Maybe
8:22
Speaker 5: he'll have to like Ted Cruz will come talk to
8:23
Speaker 5: him or something. And that's the penalty. McConnell sits in
8:26
Speaker 5: with Cruz, Hawley.
8:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would do it. That would do it.
8:30
Speaker 3: All right.
8:30
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Kevin McCarthy's goon squad over in the house, uh,
8:33
Speaker 1: where the passage of the annual defense bill is being
8:35
Speaker 1: held up. by yet another revolt from the Freedom Caucus,
8:39
Speaker 1: a group so extreme that they have now kicked out
8:42
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Greene for being too establishment. How about that?
8:46
Speaker 5: What a world.
8:47
Speaker 1: What about that? They've got two issues, Freedom Caucus. One
8:50
Speaker 1: is the military has become too woke. And the second
8:54
Speaker 1: is the military, you know, we're doing too much to
8:56
Speaker 1: stop Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Let's take the first issue.
9:01
Speaker 1: It seems like McCarthy probably needs Democratic votes to pass
9:05
Speaker 1: this bill. since some of the yahoos in his caucus
9:08
Speaker 1: won't vote for the bill no matter what happens. So
9:10
Speaker 1: he's probably going to need Democratic votes, but he won't
9:13
Speaker 1: get Democratic votes if any of these anti-abortion, anti-trans, anti-diversity
9:18
Speaker 1: amendments pass. What do you think happens here?
9:22
Speaker 5: A couple of possibilities. One is that there is a
9:27
Speaker 5: majority that rejects, of all Democrats and some number of Republicans,
9:31
Speaker 5: it includes the 19th and Biden districts, some of the
9:33
Speaker 5: national security hawks, it just rejects amendments and they pass
9:38
Speaker 5: what is still a bad bill. Don't get me wrong,
9:39
Speaker 5: but it is a bill without this. Or, and probably
9:43
Speaker 5: more likely, what McCarthy does is the amendments happen, some
9:48
Speaker 5: of them pass, some of them don't, but then he
9:51
Speaker 5: is able to cobble together enough votes to pass the
9:54
Speaker 5: bill even with the amendments by saying to the Republicans,
9:59
Speaker 5: if we want to have any sort of say in
10:01
Speaker 5: the negotiation, we have to pass a bill. If we
10:04
Speaker 5: don't pass a bill, Biden and the Senate are going
10:06
Speaker 5: to cut a deal and they're going to jam it
10:07
Speaker 5: down our throat. And what he will do, because McCarthy
10:10
Speaker 5: likes to take all of his mistakes and then quadruple
10:13
Speaker 5: down on them, is he will tell people that he
10:15
Speaker 5: will insist that some of these things stay in the bill.
10:18
Speaker 5: And then they won't. And then he'll pay price again
10:21
Speaker 5: and have to then do this all over again a
10:23
Speaker 5: few months later.
10:25
Speaker 1: So the thought is that the Senate, that if you
10:27
Speaker 1: pass some of these amendments, which a majority of Democrats
10:31
Speaker 1: and Republicans are not going to accept in a final bill,
10:34
Speaker 1: but if the more moderate Republicans vote for them this
10:38
Speaker 1: time around, they'll get stripped out in the Senate?
10:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, or you will get to a conference committee, right?
10:44
Speaker 5: If there is no House bill, then the House and
10:46
Speaker 5: Senate are not going to sit down. The House has
10:48
Speaker 5: no seat at the table. in the negotiation if they
10:50
Speaker 5: can't pass a bill. And this is how McConnell essentially
10:52
Speaker 5: jammed through that very unpopular and stupid debt ceiling bill
10:55
Speaker 5: was that argument. I can see him trying that again.
10:57
Speaker 1: What do you think happens on Ukraine funding? This is
11:01
Speaker 1: now an issue that has split the Republican Party. MAGA
11:04
Speaker 1: types want to cut or eliminate support for Ukraine. Republican
11:08
Speaker 1: senators and the more hawkish House members do not. What
11:11
Speaker 1: goes on here?
11:12
Speaker 5: Well, there are a bunch of amendments, many of them
11:15
Speaker 5: put forward by establishment Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene to try
11:18
Speaker 5: to block funding for Ukraine in this bill. But this
11:21
Speaker 5: is not where Ukraine funding will be decided. It will
11:23
Speaker 5: be decided in the defense appropriations bill later this summer
11:29
Speaker 5: in September when they have to try to fund the government,
11:31
Speaker 5: which is– the way this defense bill is going doesn't
11:33
Speaker 5: suggest it's going to be a particularly easy process. What
11:37
Speaker 5: McCarthy has– pledged is that he would, when he did this,
11:41
Speaker 5: when he was running for speaker, is that he would
11:43
Speaker 5: not do a Ukraine-only funding bill. He would have to
11:46
Speaker 5: do it in the normal course of business. And I
11:48
Speaker 5: think he will probably take that as his victory. And
11:51
Speaker 5: there'll be some amount of Ukraine funding in the final
11:53
Speaker 5: defense bill. It just may not be as much as
11:56
Speaker 5: Biden and the Senate Democrats and the Senate Democrats and
11:58
Speaker 5: Republicans want. The politics in this are interesting because basically
12:02
Speaker 5: a year ago, Republicans and Democratic voters had essentially the
12:06
Speaker 5: same views about Ukraine. And in a recent Pew poll
12:10
Speaker 5: from last month, we're up to 44% of Republican voters
12:12
Speaker 5: who think we are spending too much money in Ukraine.
12:16
Speaker 5: And so there will be political pressure to not give
12:19
Speaker 5: Biden and the Hawks everything they want.
12:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was interesting that there's also a
12:24
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan Foundation poll this week, and it has 70%
12:29
Speaker 1: of Republican voters want Ukraine to win, but only half
12:33
Speaker 1: support sending aid anymore.
12:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean, a lot of people want things,
12:37
Speaker 5: but not as many people want to pay for them.
12:40
Speaker 1: It's also, you know, the two Republicans running for president
12:44
Speaker 1: that probably have the best chance of winning the nomination,
12:47
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and, I guess, Ron DeSantis.
12:50
Speaker 5: We'll get to that.
12:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Both want to cut back support for Ukraine,
12:54
Speaker 1: or at least have. Certainly Trump has said that, and
12:56
Speaker 1: DeSantis has kind of been all over the map, but
12:58
Speaker 1: at least has hinted at it. One other House Republican
13:03
Speaker 1: snafu before we move on. For the last few months,
13:06
Speaker 1: they've been telling us that they know of this secret
13:09
Speaker 1: whistleblower who has irrefutable evidence that the Biden family is corrupt. Hunter, Joe,
13:16
Speaker 1: the whole family. But this whistleblower, they told us, has
13:20
Speaker 1: gone missing. And who knows? You know, maybe he ended
13:23
Speaker 1: up on Joe Biden's kill list, right? Well, we found
13:26
Speaker 1: out this week that the whistleblower's name is Gal Luft.
13:30
Speaker 1: And the reason he went missing is because he fled
13:33
Speaker 1: Cyprus after being arrested. And was just charged here in
13:38
Speaker 1: the U.S. with arms trafficking as an unregistered agent of
13:43
Speaker 1: the Chinese government. Now, Dan, would you believe that Republican
13:49
Speaker 1: members of Congress reacted to this news by accusing the
13:52
Speaker 1: Biden Justice Department of trying to silence their brave whistleblower?
13:57
Speaker 1: And they still want this international fugitive to testify.
14:02
Speaker 5: John. Would you believe me if I told you that
14:06
Speaker 5: that same Republican Party is backing, as their nominee, someone
14:12
Speaker 5: who is charged with 37 felony counts under the Espionage Act?
14:19
Speaker 5: These people have not let an indictment get in the
14:22
Speaker 5: way of a good story yet. I don't think they're
14:23
Speaker 5: doing it with Gall Luft.
14:25
Speaker 1: Also, the same campaign, when Trump won the presidency last time,
14:33
Speaker 1: and was set up a transition team, Gal Luft was
14:36
Speaker 1: again paid by the Chinese government as an unregistered foreign
14:41
Speaker 1: agent to go to the Trump transition team and try
14:44
Speaker 1: to get them to embrace pro-China policies and white papers.
14:49
Speaker 1: So the very thing that they think that the Bidens
14:52
Speaker 1: are doing, that they have accused the Bidens of doing,
14:55
Speaker 1: Gal Luft actually did with the Trump campaign. And that's
15:00
Speaker 1: just one of many countries They've tried to influence the
15:04
Speaker 1: policies of the Trump administration through cash. Quite successfully. Quite successfully.
15:10
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that'll be the end of that. We
15:12
Speaker 1: won't hear about it anymore. And, you know, we'll just
15:16
Speaker 1: all move on. Speaking of criminal defendants with lots of indictments,
15:21
Speaker 1: let's talk about Trump. On Monday, his lawyers asked Judge
15:24
Speaker 1: Cannon to postpone his stealing nuclear secrets trial indefinitely. Their
15:29
Speaker 1: argument is that conducting a trial during the campaign will, quote,
15:33
Speaker 1: create extraordinary challenges in the jury selection process and limit
15:36
Speaker 1: the defendant's ability to secure a fair and impartial adjudication.
15:41
Speaker 1: Of course, if Trump wins the election, the trial won't
15:43
Speaker 1: happen because of the Department of Justice policy that a
15:46
Speaker 1: sitting president can't be indicted. Questions. Do you think Trump's
15:51
Speaker 1: argument has any merit here?
15:55
Speaker 5: You know, when you wrote this in the outline, I
15:57
Speaker 5: took it pretty seriously at first, and I did what
16:00
Speaker 5: I do when I try to do legal research.
16:01
Speaker 1: You went on Twitter and then listened to Strix Greeny?
16:15
Speaker 5: To pardon himself so he does not face the charge, yeah,
16:19
Speaker 5: of course, it doesn't have any merit. You can argue
16:22
Speaker 5: all day long about impartial jury and fair trial, and
16:26
Speaker 5: I think you could argue pretty persuasively that after the
16:29
Speaker 5: presidential election, it's not going to all of a sudden
16:31
Speaker 5: people are going to stop having strong opinions about Donald Trump,
16:32
Speaker 5: and you can easily find 12 people in America who
16:34
Speaker 5: don't have an opinion on him. This is a wholly
16:38
Speaker 5: unprecedented thing. And the overriding question is about the fact
16:43
Speaker 5: that the election will determine whether he faces justice or not.
16:47
Speaker 1: I mean, Trump's argument here is that running for president
16:53
Speaker 1: and being president are both get out of jail free cards.
16:57
Speaker 1: So in his legal team's view, as long as you
17:02
Speaker 1: are in the White House or trying to get there,
17:05
Speaker 1: You cannot stand trial for any crimes. So we should
17:09
Speaker 1: all just run for president and then we can commit
17:12
Speaker 1: all the crimes we want. Because if you're running or
17:15
Speaker 1: you're president, no accountability. You are above the law. That's
17:19
Speaker 1: the argument.
17:19
Speaker 5: He could lose and announce for the 2028 presidency on
17:23
Speaker 5: the first Wednesday in November.
17:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:25
Speaker 1: And then make the same argument. I'm sorry. I'm running
17:28
Speaker 1: in 2028. And so I can't be doing this. Try
17:31
Speaker 1: to get ready for the, I'm, I'm, the likely nominee.
17:34
Speaker 1: They put that in there. He's going to be the
17:35
Speaker 1: likely nominee. He's the leader in the nomination. And so,
17:39
Speaker 1: you know, you're right. He's got a lot of preparation
17:42
Speaker 1: to do for 2028. So can't stand trial between 2025
17:45
Speaker 1: and 2028 either.
17:47
Speaker 5: Look, someone who's known for rigorous preparation for debates, interviews,
17:51
Speaker 5: really hard working. I understand.
17:54
Speaker 1: So now what do we think Judge Cannon's going to
17:55
Speaker 1: do since she is a wacky Trump judge? who's already
18:02
Speaker 1: proven to us how wacky she is by delivering some
18:05
Speaker 1: rulings that were overturned by the very conservative 11th Circuit.
18:11
Speaker 5: I think she can give Trump what he wants in
18:12
Speaker 5: two ways. She could just grant his motion and delay
18:15
Speaker 5: the trial, or she can deny his motion and still
18:19
Speaker 5: give him what he wants. Because even before this motion,
18:21
Speaker 5: a lot of independent legal experts thought it was very
18:24
Speaker 5: likely this trial would happen after the election because of
18:26
Speaker 5: the tremendous logistical issues around having a trial involving such
18:31
Speaker 5: highly classified information. That is a long process. It's hard
18:35
Speaker 5: to get all the right, to get that. There's questions
18:37
Speaker 5: around document custody and who has clearance to look at
18:40
Speaker 5: the documents and who can hear the things said about them.
18:43
Speaker 5: And so she could, you know, she is savvy, deny
18:46
Speaker 5: his motion, get a few good tweets from some, some
18:49
Speaker 5: lawyer types and then still give him what he wants
18:51
Speaker 5: in the long run.
18:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you know, and, and, and to the
18:56
Speaker 1: question of like, what does Jack Smith do if she
18:58
Speaker 1: does grant his motion here? He does like, you know,
19:03
Speaker 1: I was reading the New York times on this and
19:04
Speaker 1: they said, um, obviously judges have wide latitudes to schedule, uh, trials. Typically,
19:10
Speaker 1: typically schedules are not able to be appealed, but it
19:15
Speaker 1: says given the extraordinary nature of Mr. Trump's case and
19:18
Speaker 1: the potential implications of a delay prosecutors under Mr. Smith could,
19:22
Speaker 1: in theory, try to come up with the rationale to
19:23
Speaker 1: challenge a scheduling decision made by judge Cannon and to
19:27
Speaker 1: the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, which
19:29
Speaker 1: is interesting. Or Jack Smith can just wait and just
19:35
Speaker 1: bring his January 6th chargers and try to go that route.
19:40
Speaker 5: Which faces a similar challenge, just different judge, I guess.
19:43
Speaker 1: I think that's the point. I think that's one of
19:45
Speaker 1: the points. There's some news that he is moving closer
19:49
Speaker 1: to the January 6th indictments. And there's reporting that Fannie
19:54
Speaker 1: Willis in Georgia is basically signaled that she's going to
19:58
Speaker 1: bring charges if she brings charges the second week of August.
20:01
Speaker 1: And the thinking is that Jack Smith wants to get
20:03
Speaker 1: in before that happens to bring the federal charges. And
20:07
Speaker 1: the lawyers at, uh, just security who called the, both
20:12
Speaker 1: the hush money payments and the, the classified documents case pretty,
20:17
Speaker 1: pretty accurately, um, wrote another sort of, um, uh, you know,
20:22
Speaker 1: prosecution memo, what the prosecution, what Jack Smith might actually
20:25
Speaker 1: write in the indictment about how Trump could get charged, uh,
20:29
Speaker 1: for January 6th today. And it looks like, um, you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: fake elector scheme, obstructing an official proceeding of Congress and potentially,
20:38
Speaker 1: an incitement.
20:40
Speaker 5: It's going to be a fun summer.
20:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. So stay tuned. So even though Trump is,
20:58
Speaker 1: you know, trying to win the election before one of
21:01
Speaker 1: these multiple indictments lands him in prison, still having a
21:04
Speaker 1: better week than his closest polling opponent, Ron DeSantis. The
21:08
Speaker 1: New York Times and Rolling Stone are reporting that the
21:11
Speaker 1: Murdoch media outlets are starting to turn on Tiny D
21:16
Speaker 1: and that Rupert Murdoch himself would now like Virginia Governor
21:20
Speaker 1: Glenn Youngkin to get in the race. A lot of
21:23
Speaker 1: DeSantis donors and supporters are also freaking out about his candidacy,
21:28
Speaker 1: with some saying that they're tweeting their concerns because that's
21:31
Speaker 1: the only way Ron DeSantis' super online campaign will hear them. Yeah.
21:37
Speaker 1: You think that's what DeSantis needs? You think he needs
21:38
Speaker 1: more advice from Twitter?
21:39
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just tweeted him. Absolutely. It's possible Ron DeSantis
21:44
Speaker 5: and his campaign are beyond help.
21:46
Speaker 1: We don't know, but maybe, yeah.
21:49
Speaker 5: We've been watching this now for seven months, I guess,
21:52
Speaker 5: since basically after the midterms as he has been either
21:56
Speaker 5: putatively running or explicitly running for president. And there has
21:59
Speaker 5: not been like one good moment in there the entire time.
22:02
Speaker 5: And I'm not sure what he brings to the table.
22:07
Speaker 5: Which is if you think about it, not every politician
22:09
Speaker 5: is great at everything, but they're all great at something.
22:13
Speaker 5: And so when you run for president, you can be
22:16
Speaker 5: like a great speaker in front of a crowd like
22:19
Speaker 5: Obama was. You can be incredibly compelling and charismatic and
22:23
Speaker 5: empathetic like in a small group like– Joe Biden is, right?
22:27
Speaker 5: Or Bill Clinton was. Or maybe you're a master at
22:30
Speaker 5: the media, like Trump was, as painful as that is
22:33
Speaker 5: to say. But like, Ron DeSantis is bad at all
22:35
Speaker 5: of those things. Like, really bad at them. Like, he's
22:38
Speaker 5: not a good speaker. He has no personality. Like, he
22:41
Speaker 5: actually repels people by speaking with them. That seems like
22:44
Speaker 5: a problem in a place like Iowa. And he steps
22:48
Speaker 5: on himself every time he does an interview, even with
22:51
Speaker 5: friendly outlets. So it's like, what is he? He's like
22:54
Speaker 5: a baseball player who can't, throw catcher back. Like what?
22:57
Speaker 5: I don't know what he does. I don't mean mean
23:00
Speaker 5: about candidates can get better for sure, but I just
23:02
Speaker 5: don't see a lot of signs of potential here.
23:05
Speaker 1: I mean, he is very good at signing his name to, uh,
23:08
Speaker 1: pieces of extremely conservative legislation from, uh, the Florida legislature that, uh, is,
23:15
Speaker 1: is filled with a big Republican majority. So he's pretty
23:17
Speaker 1: good at, he just signs his name on this and
23:19
Speaker 1: he's good at talking to, uh, very friendly propaganda outlets
23:22
Speaker 1: in Florida. Yeah.
23:24
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, basically your argument is he's an auto
23:26
Speaker 5: pen with less personality.
23:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. That's my argument. But you're right. Polls
23:30
Speaker 1: are showing that the more voters know about him, the
23:32
Speaker 1: less they like him, which is, it's never a good.
23:34
Speaker 5: Yeah.
23:34
Speaker 1: Usually, like, if you're doing poorly in the polls, your
23:37
Speaker 1: hope is, okay, well, for the people who do know
23:41
Speaker 1: who the candidate is, who say, yeah, I can identify
23:43
Speaker 1: that candidate. Oh, I like that candidate. Then you're like, okay,
23:47
Speaker 1: if only more people get to know our candidate, then
23:51
Speaker 1: they'll go up in the polls. but with Ron DeSantis,
23:53
Speaker 1: it's the opposite. And so that's not, that's not a
23:55
Speaker 1: good sign.
23:55
Speaker 5: Do you want to hear my hottest, most irresponsible take
23:57
Speaker 5: right now?
23:59
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I do.
24:00
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is the most likely Republican nominee. The second
24:05
Speaker 5: most likely Republican nominee is Glenn Youngkin.
24:08
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you were going to say, uh, Vivek Ramaswamy.
24:11
Speaker 5: No, but he's, he's spreading up that list pretty fast.
24:14
Speaker 1: Again, again, there is a, yeah, there we, we should
24:17
Speaker 1: have a side bet on whether he will finish ahead
24:18
Speaker 1: of Ron DeSantis somewhere. Um, You think Glenn Youngkin will
24:22
Speaker 1: get in the race?
24:23
Speaker 5: I'm not saying he– I think either Donald Trump wins,
24:25
Speaker 5: and if he doesn't win, it would be someone like
24:28
Speaker 5: Glenn Youngkin who has to beat him, someone who gets
24:30
Speaker 5: in late, who is the– can become the vehicle that
24:35
Speaker 5: Ron DeSantis was unable to be, or the vessel, I guess,
24:38
Speaker 5: for what Ron DeSantis has been unable to be, which
24:40
Speaker 5: is people who want someone– an electable version of Trump. Yeah.
24:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's just a problem with the whole
24:46
Speaker 1: vehicle vessel theory of this shit. You need a candidate.
24:49
Speaker 1: You need a candidate who has personality, charisma. And Glenn Youngkin,
24:54
Speaker 1: to me, just has the same problems as Ron DeSantis.
24:58
Speaker 1: He was never a captivating candidate.
25:01
Speaker 5: He is a more compelling candidate than Ron DeSantis. And
25:03
Speaker 5: I think he would wear better over a short period
25:05
Speaker 5: of time.
25:06
Speaker 1: If Chris Christie– I mean it's got a little like
25:08
Speaker 1: Rick Perry, Fred Thompson vibes too. That's the way these
25:12
Speaker 1: things– Getting in the race very, very late.
25:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
25:15
Speaker 5: There is not a great history of people getting in
25:17
Speaker 5: the race late and doing well, which speaks to how
25:21
Speaker 5: likely I think Donald Trump is to be the nominee.
25:22
Speaker 5: That is by far the overwhelming. But if you were
25:24
Speaker 5: like placing bets on odds, that's where I would put
25:27
Speaker 5: my money.
25:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:28
Speaker 5: For long odds.
25:29
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a Glenn Youngkin guy. I'm a Doug
25:32
Speaker 1: Burgum guy. You're a Glenn Youngkin guy.
25:34
Speaker 5: I've been thinking, and I was meant to pitch this
25:35
Speaker 5: in our internal meeting yesterday, that we should each adopt.
25:37
Speaker 1: A Republican candidate. Yeah, we should pick one. I said
25:40
Speaker 1: that to someone. We should do a draft.
25:43
Speaker 5: We don't even have to draft them. I think we
25:44
Speaker 5: can figure out amongst ourselves. You obviously want Burgum. No
25:46
Speaker 5: one's going to fight you for it.
25:48
Speaker 1: No, I want a team. I think we should do
25:50
Speaker 1: a full draft and just keep selecting all of them
25:53
Speaker 1: until we have a crew of two or three each.
25:56
Speaker 1: Do we take Trump out of it?
25:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, because that's not fun to have someone have Trump.
26:02
Speaker 5: I think the Trump part is going to be hard
26:03
Speaker 5: to explain. They have to be likely losers.
26:05
Speaker 1: But I think we also have to start with like,
26:08
Speaker 1: you know, Lovett gets Tim Scott because he's already made
26:10
Speaker 1: such a stink about him. And Tommy gets Nikki Haley
26:14
Speaker 1: because he seems like a fan.
26:18
Speaker 5: Sure, absolutely.
26:19
Speaker 1: I'm going to be fighting for Chris Christie, of course,
26:21
Speaker 1: and my boy Doug. What do you think about the
26:24
Speaker 1: Murdoch story? How much harder will it be And I
26:27
Speaker 1: realize it's already quite difficult for Ron DeSantis to win
26:31
Speaker 1: the primary without Fox on his side.
26:34
Speaker 5: Well, it's certainly possible to win the primary without Rupert
26:37
Speaker 5: Murdoch on your side, because Rupert Murdoch was a vehement
26:39
Speaker 5: opponent of Trump in 2016. But what was misunderstood in
26:44
Speaker 5: that recounting of history was that Roger Ailes was obviously
26:46
Speaker 5: a very big Trump guy. And while he was there,
26:49
Speaker 5: he was optimizing the network's programming, both for ratings and
26:53
Speaker 5: Trump at the same time. And now if Fox from
26:56
Speaker 5: top to bottom is anti-DeSantis, which they have a financial
27:03
Speaker 5: rationale for being because I don't think he has great
27:05
Speaker 5: television and Trump remains the ratings driver. It makes it harder, right?
27:09
Speaker 5: I don't think it's as powerful as it possibly can be,
27:11
Speaker 5: but I can't– like a– Ron DeSantis– in addition to
27:16
Speaker 5: needing more voters, he also needs to remain the choice
27:19
Speaker 5: of Republican elites for money and political support. And the
27:23
Speaker 5: Wall Street Journal and the New York Post and Fox
27:25
Speaker 5: News help with that. And with that, that's going to
27:26
Speaker 5: make things even harder for him without it.
27:29
Speaker 8: Yeah.
27:29
Speaker 1: And the other thing is they already tried to make
27:32
Speaker 1: DeSantis happen and it didn't work. So I don't know
27:34
Speaker 1: that they're going to want to go back to that well.
27:36
Speaker 1: The New York Post was was even more out front
27:39
Speaker 1: and sort of like boosting DeSantis for a while. Fox
27:42
Speaker 1: wasn't exactly boosting, but they were giving him some friendly
27:43
Speaker 1: interviews and now he's not really having any of those
27:45
Speaker 1: friendly interviews. So that's tough for him.
27:48
Speaker 5: Fox made him famous, right? I remember when you were
27:50
Speaker 5: doing The Wilderness and you talked to Sarah Longwell and
27:53
Speaker 5: you were talking about people who might run if Biden
27:56
Speaker 5: were to not run. This was taped before he announced
27:59
Speaker 5: he was running. And with Republicans, they would all say
28:01
Speaker 5: DeSantis because Fox had made DeSantis famous. So when you
28:03
Speaker 5: ask Democrats, they just They don't know anyone because there's
28:06
Speaker 5: no entity to do that. And so Fox created Ron DeSantis.
28:09
Speaker 5: And if they walk away, it does make it harder
28:12
Speaker 5: to keep up the political Ponzi scheme that is the
28:15
Speaker 5: DeSantis campaign.
28:16
Speaker 1: I guess. I'm interested in how DeSantis' interview with Tucker
28:21
Speaker 1: Carlson goes tomorrow on Friday. They're all going to be
28:25
Speaker 1: minus Trump at the Family Leadership Summit event in Iowa.
28:28
Speaker 1: And Tucker Carlson is going to sit down and interview DeSantis,
28:31
Speaker 1: Tim Scott, Mike Pence, Asa Hutchinson, Nikki Haley. and Vivek Ramaswamy.
28:36
Speaker 1: And once again, Trump just said, eh, fuck off, I'm
28:38
Speaker 1: not going. Probably the right move.
28:40
Speaker 5: The Republican presidential contenders are all doing an interview with
28:45
Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson at the same place, I believe, or at
28:47
Speaker 5: least on the same day where Governor Kim Reynolds is
28:49
Speaker 5: signing Iowa's six-week abortion ban. It's like a Democratic ad
28:53
Speaker 5: just made.
28:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're sitting down with the guy who just
28:56
Speaker 1: did an interview with Andrew Tate, who has been indicted
29:00
Speaker 1: on sex trafficking charges and rape. So that's where the Republican...
29:05
Speaker 1: And it's also, it's like the people doing this, like
29:07
Speaker 1: what is Asa Hutchinson doing? What is, what is, what
29:11
Speaker 1: is Nikki Haley doing? What are these fucking people, Tim Scott? They're,
29:14
Speaker 1: they're sitting down with Tucker Carlson at this thing. Come on.
29:17
Speaker 5: You know what that's called? This is what our friend
29:19
Speaker 5: Alyssa used to call, uh, what people would do in
29:21
Speaker 5: meetings sometimes. So just called proof of life. They're just
29:24
Speaker 5: reminding you that they still work there. Yeah.
29:29
Speaker 1: This is very proof of life.
29:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
29:31
Speaker 1: So some of these candidates, Republican candidates, are doing whatever
29:33
Speaker 1: they can just to qualify for the August 23rd debate.
29:36
Speaker 1: They have to hit certain polling thresholds and have at
29:39
Speaker 1: least 40,000 unique donors, including 200 contributions from 20 states.
29:46
Speaker 1: To get that done, my boy Doug, Doug Burgum, billionaire
29:49
Speaker 1: governor of North Dakota, is offering $ 20 gift cards to
29:54
Speaker 1: people who donate at least $ 1 to his campaign. Anti-woke
29:58
Speaker 1: crusader Vivek Ramaswamy, he's promising people a 10% cut of
30:03
Speaker 1: the money they bring to his campaign. So he's like
30:06
Speaker 1: deputizing people as like, if you sign up and you donate,
30:10
Speaker 1: then you're a fundraiser. And if you get other people
30:12
Speaker 1: to donate, then you take a 10% cut. So that's
30:14
Speaker 1: like a real Ponzi scheme. He's just like a multi-level
30:17
Speaker 1: marketing scheme that he's doing. And Francis Suarez is selling
30:23
Speaker 1: $ 1 Adios Biden bumper stickers. That seems fine. And then
30:27
Speaker 1: we just saw last night that Chris Christie, Tim Scott
30:30
Speaker 1: and Chris Christie both announced that they did hit the 40,000
30:32
Speaker 1: donor threshold. And Chris Christie did that just by, you know,
30:37
Speaker 1: tweeting at us libs to throw him some money so
30:39
Speaker 1: he could kick the shit out of Donald Trump on
30:41
Speaker 1: the debate stage, even though Donald Trump probably won't be
30:43
Speaker 1: appearing in that or maybe the second or maybe any
30:46
Speaker 1: of them. Oh, man. So first question about this. Have
30:50
Speaker 1: you received your gift card yet from Doug?
30:52
Speaker 5: I am not. the Doug guy on this podcast. There's
30:55
Speaker 5: one Doug head, and that is you.
30:56
Speaker 1: You don't have to be a Doug guy. You just
30:57
Speaker 1: have to want $ 19. Don't you want your free $ 19?
31:02
Speaker 5: It's going to be so funny when he doesn't reach
31:05
Speaker 5: the threshold, even though he's trying to pay people $ 20
31:08
Speaker 5: to give him $ 1.
31:09
Speaker 1: I mean, he's trying to pay them $ 19. Yeah. It's
31:13
Speaker 1: a $ 19 gift. Is that legal? Do we think that's legal?
31:17
Speaker 5: There's some open questions about whether that's a straw donor
31:20
Speaker 5: scheme where you give people money so they can give
31:22
Speaker 5: it back to you. But then- Also, no one cares
31:25
Speaker 5: about Doug Burgum to really run that question to ground.
31:28
Speaker 5: So I think it's going to be fine.
31:30
Speaker 1: We think Vivek's scheme, that's also, that's legal too.
31:33
Speaker 5: He actually got the FEC to sign off on it.
31:36
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
31:36
Speaker 5: Okay. And it's actually.
31:38
Speaker 1: Wait, first of all, first of all, the FEC signs
31:40
Speaker 1: off on things. I didn't know the FEC was working.
31:43
Speaker 5: Working. You can take ideas to them and get guidance
31:48
Speaker 5: on whether it adheres to their rules. And I mean,
31:51
Speaker 5: there are professional fundraising entities in life that take a
31:54
Speaker 5: cut through direct mail or online fundraising of what they raise.
31:58
Speaker 5: So doing the same thing for volunteer fundraiser, ostensibly usually
32:01
Speaker 5: volunteer fundraiser seems fine. It also seems rife with corruption, right?
32:05
Speaker 5: Where you straw donor these things and then take the cut.
32:07
Speaker 5: But Once again, at least up until he started rocketing
32:11
Speaker 5: up in the polls, no one cared enough to really
32:13
Speaker 5: dig into it with Vivek.
32:16
Speaker 1: I mean, it does seem very funny to me that
32:20
Speaker 1: they're going through all of these possibly illegal shenanigans to
32:24
Speaker 1: get on a debate stage when Donald Trump might not
32:28
Speaker 1: show up. But I guess that's just because... This is
32:31
Speaker 1: the only way for them to get attention is to
32:33
Speaker 1: be on this debate stage. So Trump or no Trump,
32:35
Speaker 1: it's like their best shot. What do you think?
32:37
Speaker 5: Well, if you don't make the debate stage, you're done.
32:39
Speaker 5: That's the end of your campaign. So this is just
32:41
Speaker 5: a gating issue to continue to lose to Trump later on.
32:45
Speaker 5: So if you want to continue to pretend to run
32:46
Speaker 5: for president like Asa Hutchinson and Will Hurd are doing,
32:50
Speaker 5: you have to get on that stage. And if you
32:51
Speaker 5: don't get on that stage, it's over.
32:52
Speaker 1: Forgot about Will Hurd.
32:55
Speaker 5: Honestly, I can't believe he popped in my mind right
32:57
Speaker 5: then at that moment. The last time I talked about
32:59
Speaker 5: him was the last time you and I.
33:00
Speaker 1: Talked about him. Well, someone should get him in the draft.
33:03
Speaker 1: All right. After the break, Dan talks to pro-choice activist
33:05
Speaker 1: Kelly Copeland about the fight to keep abortion legal in Ohio.
33:08
Speaker 1: But one quick housekeeping note before we go to break.
33:11
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, you can now listen to
33:13
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33:17
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33:20
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33:23
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33:26
Speaker 1: of you have asked us for ad-free episodes. So we
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33:32
Speaker 1: to an ad-free version of Pod Save America. Plus, you
33:35
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33:37
Speaker 1: of Crooked's latest limited series, Dreamtown, the story of Adelanto,
33:40
Speaker 1: before it releases. Again, when you sign up for Friends
33:43
Speaker 1: of the Pod, you can subscribe now by heading to crooked.com
33:46
Speaker 1: slash friends. We will be right back with Kelly Copeland.
33:49
Speaker 5: And for Pod Save America listeners who are looking for
33:51
Speaker 5: how to help in Ohio and how to help Kelly,
33:53
Speaker 5: you can go to votesafeamerica.com slash Ohio to donate and volunteer.
34:10
Speaker 5: A critical fight for abortion rights is playing out right
34:12
Speaker 5: now in Ohio. Here to talk about it is Executive
34:14
Speaker 5: Director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland. Kelly, thank you for
34:17
Speaker 5: coming on the pod.
34:18
Speaker 7: Thank you, Dan. I appreciate the opportunity.
34:20
Speaker 5: Let's just level set here. Let's start with what is
34:24
Speaker 5: the state of abortion access in Ohio right now? What
34:27
Speaker 5: are the laws you guys are trying to change?
34:30
Speaker 7: Right.
34:30
Speaker 4: So after the Dobbs decision, the six-week ban that had
34:34
Speaker 4: been passed in 2019 went into effect. and was in
34:39
Speaker 4: effect for about 82 days until we got a temporary
34:42
Speaker 4: injunction that stopped that law from being enforced until the
34:46
Speaker 4: lawsuit against it is completed. We've won the early rounds
34:50
Speaker 4: in the lawsuit, but we could lose at any time
34:53
Speaker 4: because our state Supreme Court has, just like the US
34:57
Speaker 4: Supreme Court, been captured by conservative ideologues. And so we
35:02
Speaker 4: knew that even though we have an implicit right to
35:06
Speaker 4: reproductive freedom, We were going to have to pass an
35:09
Speaker 4: explicit right so that these judicial activists on the Ohio
35:13
Speaker 4: Supreme Court don't have any loopholes to say that we
35:16
Speaker 4: don't have the right to bodily autonomy in Ohio because
35:19
Speaker 4: we do.
35:20
Speaker 7: So time is really of the essence.
35:23
Speaker 5: So you guys have submitted a large number of signatures,
35:27
Speaker 5: I think almost twice what is required. to get a
35:30
Speaker 5: referendum on the ballot in November. Talk to me about
35:33
Speaker 5: what is in that ballot, how it would change, in
35:36
Speaker 5: that referendum, how it would change things for people in
35:38
Speaker 5: Ohio and the status of your effort to get that
35:41
Speaker 5: actually on the ballot.
35:42
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you. It was so incredible, Dan. Over 700,000
35:49
Speaker 4: people signed this petition. And it's actually not a referendum,
35:54
Speaker 4: it's a constitutional amendment, which is so much stronger And
35:58
Speaker 4: we had people from all 88 counties sign. We only
36:02
Speaker 4: have to qualify in 44 of the counties in Ohio,
36:06
Speaker 4: but we had people from literally every corner of the
36:08
Speaker 4: state like pounding on the door saying, I want to sign,
36:11
Speaker 4: I want to sign. And when we delivered those boxes
36:16
Speaker 4: on July 5th, there were 442 boxes. And when I
36:21
Speaker 4: saw them being unloaded from the truck and all of
36:24
Speaker 4: those people who are standing with us, my heart almost
36:28
Speaker 4: exploded because I know that those boxes are filled with
36:33
Speaker 4: love and with hope and with determination that we can
36:38
Speaker 4: do this, that we can secure bodily autonomy for ourselves
36:42
Speaker 4: and for our friends, our families.
36:44
Speaker 7: Our daughters.
36:46
Speaker 4: And it was a really incredible moment for the movement
36:49
Speaker 4: in Ohio that's frankly been up against it. So now
36:53
Speaker 4: the Secretary of State has 20 days to look at
36:56
Speaker 4: all those signatures and make sure that we've met the,
37:00
Speaker 4: it's almost 414,000 threshold and all of the technical requirements.
37:06
Speaker 4: They have until August 4th to file a frivolous lawsuit,
37:09
Speaker 4: which I'm sure they will, to try to stop us.
37:12
Speaker 4: And of course we have the August 8th election, which
37:16
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll talk about. So it's a daunting path,
37:22
Speaker 4: but it's one that people are so committed to. And
37:24
Speaker 4: so many people are a part of that I have
37:26
Speaker 4: no doubt will be successful.
37:28
Speaker 5: I take it that you view the tremendous enthusiasm for
37:32
Speaker 5: signing the petition as a sign of the momentum and
37:38
Speaker 5: movement behind bodily autonomy in Ohio. Is that correct? That
37:42
Speaker 5: was an encouraging sign, I take it?
37:43
Speaker 7: Oh, my gosh. It's so encouraging.
37:46
Speaker 4: And, you know, last year for 82 days, we were
37:50
Speaker 4: under the six week abortion ban and the fear that
37:54
Speaker 4: that brought to everybody, not just people who were pregnant
37:59
Speaker 4: and needed abortion care, but people who were pregnant or
38:02
Speaker 4: thinking about getting pregnant and scared that they wouldn't be
38:05
Speaker 4: able to get the treatment that they wanted. This was
38:07
Speaker 4: something that deeply impacted the psyche of every Ohioan and
38:14
Speaker 4: I think has really created a resolve that we'll never
38:18
Speaker 4: let that happen to us again.
38:21
Speaker 5: Is there a timeline for when that case could resolve itself?
38:24
Speaker 5: Could that possibly happen before you vote November, or is
38:26
Speaker 5: it going to take longer than that?
38:28
Speaker 1: It could.
38:28
Speaker 7: It could happen at any time.
38:30
Speaker 4: And that's, I think, one of the scary things about
38:33
Speaker 4: it is that there could be a period of time
38:37
Speaker 4: before we get a chance to vote in this constitutional
38:41
Speaker 4: amendment on November 7th, where people could once again be
38:44
Speaker 4: denied access in Ohio. That said, during those 82 days,
38:50
Speaker 4: Because we knew because of the Supreme Court taking the case,
38:54
Speaker 4: we knew because of the leak what was likely to happen.
38:57
Speaker 4: And I was just so grateful and proud for my
39:00
Speaker 4: colleagues at the abortion funds and at the abortion clinics
39:04
Speaker 4: and the legal teams who created this incredible safety net
39:09
Speaker 4: to help people with the logistics and the finances and
39:13
Speaker 4: the legal advice on how to access abortion care, to
39:17
Speaker 4: get them out of state, to help them figure out
39:20
Speaker 4: this web. But even with that, we know that not
39:24
Speaker 4: everyone was able to make it out. And, you know,
39:27
Speaker 4: so if the worst happens before the election, I know
39:32
Speaker 4: that we'll redeploy that safety net and we'll do everything
39:35
Speaker 4: we can for everyone we can, but.
39:38
Speaker 7: It won't be enough. And that's why this constitutional amendment
39:41
Speaker 7: is so critical.
39:42
Speaker 5: Let's talk a little bit about what happens in August first,
39:44
Speaker 5: because nothing is as easy as it should be in
39:46
Speaker 5: American politics, particularly in states controlled by Republicans. The Republicans
39:49
Speaker 5: have put an initiative on the ballot in August that
39:53
Speaker 5: would do what? Explain what that is and how it
39:56
Speaker 5: relates to your efforts with your November constitutional amendment.
39:59
Speaker 7: Well, let me start.
40:00
Speaker 4: By saying they know that they're about to get their
40:04
Speaker 4: asses beat in November. So everything that they're doing is
40:09
Speaker 4: because they're trying desperately not to get completely obliterated in November. And,
40:16
Speaker 4: you know, so we have terrible gerrymandering here. You know,
40:19
Speaker 4: we have this manufactured anti-choice majority in the legislature, you know,
40:23
Speaker 4: and I think they've let that go to their heads.
40:26
Speaker 4: And just like on the federal level and so many
40:29
Speaker 4: other places, you know, they don't want to actually engage
40:32
Speaker 4: with voters.
40:33
Speaker 7: They know that they've lost the argument.
40:35
Speaker 4: So if you can't win the game, you change the rules.
40:38
Speaker 4: And that's what they're trying to do. Just a few
40:40
Speaker 4: months ago, this is absurd, Dan. A few months ago,
40:44
Speaker 4: they outlawed August special elections. And then they were like, no,
40:48
Speaker 4: but not for us.
40:49
Speaker 7: Like, that doesn't apply to us.
40:52
Speaker 8: And so they put this special election on for August 8th,
40:56
Speaker 8: a Tuesday in the, you know, when people are on vacation,
41:00
Speaker 8: when they're getting ready to go back to school.
41:03
Speaker 4: No one is prepared to vote in August.
41:05
Speaker 7: Early voting started this week. People are like, what? I'm
41:11
Speaker 7: voting this week. What are you talking about?
41:14
Speaker 4: And of course, they're doing that because they're trying to
41:16
Speaker 4: amend the Constitution before we can. And they're trying to say, well, hey,
41:20
Speaker 4: you've been able to pass Ohioans. You've been able to
41:23
Speaker 4: pass constitutional amendments with 50% plus one for 100 years,
41:27
Speaker 4: but no more.
41:29
Speaker 7: We know we can't win.
41:31
Speaker 4: So we're going to change it to 60%, which is
41:34
Speaker 4: suspiciously close to all of the polling that shows that.
41:37
Speaker 4: that at least 60% of Ohioans support this constitutional amendment. So,
41:43
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, it's so transparent how scared they are.
41:47
Speaker 4: But it's also, I mean, I'm laughing about it, but
41:49
Speaker 4: it's also extremely dangerous because they're adding all this other
41:54
Speaker 4: like minutia in there that instead of qualifying in 44 counties,
41:58
Speaker 4: you have to do 88 counties and just all of
42:01
Speaker 4: this stuff. And qualifying for a constitutional amendment is an
42:04
Speaker 4: intense thing. and very volunteer-heavy, very expensive, frankly, process.
42:11
Speaker 7: And if they.
42:12
Speaker 4: Pass this in August with, you know, what is there
42:15
Speaker 4: going to be, like 10%, 15% turnout? So 50% plus
42:20
Speaker 4: one of that tiny minority of Ohioan voters could determine
42:24
Speaker 4: whether or not anyone could get on the ballot again
42:26
Speaker 4: because it is going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible,
42:30
Speaker 4: for anyone to amend the Constitution, any citizen-led effort again.
42:35
Speaker 4: And they're doing all of that to stop us from
42:38
Speaker 4: passing reproductive freedom in the Constitution of Ohio.
42:43
Speaker 7: It's daunting, but it's also pathetic.
42:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's hard not to know the irony
42:50
Speaker 5: of changing the constitutional amendment process to 60% threshold. by
42:56
Speaker 5: amending the Constitution with a 50 plus 1% threshold, right?
43:03
Speaker 5: They really believed it. They should demand they need to
43:04
Speaker 5: get 60%. But let's talk about that. Let's talk about strategy-wise, right?
43:08
Speaker 5: So obviously this is very clearly in Ohio and the
43:12
Speaker 5: rest of the country, a pro-choice, pro-abortion access majority, right?
43:18
Speaker 5: An anti-DOBs, anti-six-week ban majority. Now, whether that's 60% or 58%,
43:26
Speaker 5: we don't know. How are you, what is your organizing
43:29
Speaker 5: and messaging strategy around turning this seemingly quasi on its
43:35
Speaker 5: face banal, you know, change in process into in and
43:39
Speaker 5: of itself a referendum on abortion access in Ohio?
43:42
Speaker 4: Well, you know, what's interesting about actually our opponents on this,
43:46
Speaker 4: they keep trying to pretend it's not about abortion.
43:49
Speaker 1: Of course.
43:50
Speaker 7: But then at their private.
43:51
Speaker 4: Fundraisers, like, Our attorney general, Frank LaRose, he's like, oh, yeah,
43:55
Speaker 4: it's all about abortion.
43:56
Speaker 7: So privately, they're saying that.
43:58
Speaker 4: But publicly, they're like, oh, no, it's to it's to
44:01
Speaker 4: protect our Constitution. And, you know, and I mean, and
44:05
Speaker 4: you've seen this before. If you can't win an argument,
44:08
Speaker 4: what do you do?
44:09
Speaker 7: You change the conversation. And that's what they're doing.
44:13
Speaker 4: So I think we're just staying really focused on the conversation.
44:16
Speaker 4: What's really going on here? The first election, August 8th,
44:20
Speaker 4: they want to take away your voice, your voice in
44:22
Speaker 4: your government again. And that direct access to the ballot
44:26
Speaker 4: is one of the only things Ohioans really have right
44:29
Speaker 4: now because we're still under these terrible gerrymandered districts. And
44:33
Speaker 4: the only way we're going to solve that, of course,
44:35
Speaker 4: is to change our Constitution again. So they don't want that. So,
44:39
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, this is about abortion primarily, but this
44:42
Speaker 4: is for them. This would this would really cement their
44:46
Speaker 4: ability to. rule the state of Ohio and not represent us,
44:49
Speaker 4: that they'll cement that kind of tyranny of the minority.
44:53
Speaker 4: And so I think we need to let people know that,
44:56
Speaker 4: that these politicians, they don't want you to have a
44:59
Speaker 4: voice in the government and they don't want you to
45:01
Speaker 4: have a voice in your own personal reproductive healthcare decisions.
45:04
Speaker 4: They just, and it's fascinating to me because they always
45:08
Speaker 4: say they're for small government, which is nonsense.
45:12
Speaker 7: They wanna be involved in everything.
45:13
Speaker 4: They wanna control everything.
45:17
Speaker 7: They're just full of it. I mean, and you know that.
45:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. Not exactly the freedom party, if you will. Yeah, yeah.
45:24
Speaker 5: So we have a lot of listeners in Ohio and
45:27
Speaker 5: around the country. How can they help you both in
45:30
Speaker 5: August and then in November when your Constitution Amendment is approved?
45:33
Speaker 7: There's so many things.
45:34
Speaker 4: I would say the first thing is visit our website, OhioansforReproductiveFreedom.org.
45:40
Speaker 4: You know, one of the most obvious things, even if
45:43
Speaker 4: you've only got $ 5, $ 5. you know, make a contribution
45:46
Speaker 4: to the campaign, we've already seen over $ 5 million in
45:51
Speaker 4: like stigmatizing and false ads that we have to combat.
45:56
Speaker 4: And so, you know, even $ 5 goes a long way,
45:59
Speaker 4: but you can also sign up to volunteer, to host
46:02
Speaker 4: a house party, to, you know, get information that you
46:05
Speaker 4: can share on social media, ways that you can talk
46:07
Speaker 4: about why this is important to you and your family.
46:11
Speaker 4: And even if you're not in Ohio, I swear to you, Dan,
46:14
Speaker 4: I feel like everyone has.
46:15
Speaker 7: An Ohio connection. Somebody's from here.
46:17
Speaker 4: You know, your in-laws live in Youngstown, like something. Ohio
46:23
Speaker 4: is one of those places where I feel like everyone
46:25
Speaker 4: has a connection. So, you know, if you're not in Ohio,
46:28
Speaker 4: but you have friends and family in Ohio, like let
46:31
Speaker 4: them know you have their back. Let them know how
46:34
Speaker 4: to get involved. Talk to them about the August election.
46:37
Speaker 4: Make sure they know about it. Make sure that they
46:39
Speaker 4: know to vote no in August on August 8th. And yes,
46:43
Speaker 4: in November. on November 7th. I mean, I think there's
46:47
Speaker 4: just so many ways that people can help. And, you know,
46:50
Speaker 4: one of the reasons that I was thrilled to be
46:52
Speaker 4: able to talk to you is to put out that
46:55
Speaker 4: call because we can win this, but we can't win
46:58
Speaker 4: it alone. It's going to really take all of us.
47:01
Speaker 5: Well, I can promise you we'll be beating the drum
47:03
Speaker 5: on this podcast. Kelly, good luck in August. Good luck
47:05
Speaker 5: in November. And we'll talk to you again soon.
47:08
Speaker 7: I dig that about you, Dan. Thank you.
47:11
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kelly. This is wonderful.
47:12
Speaker 7: Yeah, no problem.
47:18
Speaker 1: Okay, before we go, I was going to save this
47:21
Speaker 1: item for Terminally Online, which we'll be recording later, and
47:24
Speaker 1: I still might talk about it there. But there was
47:28
Speaker 1: a story sent around late last night that we have
47:30
Speaker 1: to cover on Pod Save America. And this is a
47:33
Speaker 1: story that I believe is Pulitzer-worthy, and it came from,
47:39
Speaker 1: of all places, the New York Post. Here's the lead.
47:43
Speaker 1: Page Six regrets to report that a press dinner to
47:45
Speaker 1: boost Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 's presidential campaign descended into
47:49
Speaker 1: a foul bout of screaming and polemic farting Tuesday night.
47:55
Speaker 1: The piece goes on to describe this Upper West Side
47:59
Speaker 1: press dinner where a guest asked Kennedy, who is, you know,
48:03
Speaker 1: environmental activist turned anti-vaccine activist, and they asked him about
48:07
Speaker 1: climate change. And now I will just read from the piece,
48:10
Speaker 1: which again is perfect. Quote, it seems that the mere
48:14
Speaker 1: inquiry was enough to set off apparently drunk gossip columnist
48:17
Speaker 1: turned flack Doug Deschert, the host of the event, who
48:21
Speaker 1: became enraged and screamed at the top of his lungs,
48:24
Speaker 1: the climate hoax. Meanwhile, octogenarian art critic Anthony Hayden Guest,
48:30
Speaker 1: who appeared to have been sleeping happily for most of
48:33
Speaker 1: the dinner, was roused by the abrupt rumpus. He suddenly
48:37
Speaker 1: opened his eyes and denounced his longtime pal, Deschert, calling
48:41
Speaker 1: him a, quote, miserable blob. Shut up, implored Hayden Guest.
48:45
Speaker 1: And here's where it gets really good. Here, it seems,
48:49
Speaker 1: Deschert sensed the need for a new rhetorical tack and
48:53
Speaker 1: let rip a loud, prolonged fart while yelling, as if
48:58
Speaker 1: to underscore his point, I'm farting. What do you think, Dan?
49:09
Speaker 1: What a great move. You're pissed at someone, you're having
49:12
Speaker 1: a fight about climate change, and you just fart in
49:14
Speaker 1: case anyone is Confused about what just happened or what
49:18
Speaker 1: they heard, you say, I'm farting.
49:20
Speaker 5: Someone's writing this down in their August debate strategy notebook
49:23
Speaker 5: right now. I texted this to you guys last night
49:27
Speaker 5: after I saw it in Crooked Slack because I didn't
49:29
Speaker 5: think who would really click on a page. Not only
49:31
Speaker 5: is it in the New York Post, it's the page
49:34
Speaker 5: six gossip column in the New York Post.
49:37
Speaker 1: Right, which again is known for its credibility always.
49:40
Speaker 5: Yes, and after I sent it to you, I read it,
49:42
Speaker 5: I sent it to you, and I thought to myself,
49:44
Speaker 5: I'm definitely the victim of a hoax here because there's
49:47
Speaker 5: no way this is real. But here we are.
49:49
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a deep fake.
49:51
Speaker 5: If it is, AI is one.
49:54
Speaker 1: Or maybe the writer just completely made up the story,
49:57
Speaker 1: in which case I think it's fine, and I don't
49:59
Speaker 1: ever want to be told that the story isn't true.
50:01
Speaker 1: I want to live the rest of my life believing
50:02
Speaker 1: that the story happened. The piece continues. This room, which
50:06
Speaker 1: included a handful of journalists as well as Kennedy's campaign manager,
50:09
Speaker 1: former representative Dennis Kucinich, of course the cooch was there,
50:13
Speaker 1: was stunned, seemingly unsure about whether Deschert was farting at
50:16
Speaker 1: Hayden Guest personally or at the very notion of global warming.
50:23
Speaker 1: When asked to comment about his outburst the next day,
50:26
Speaker 1: Deschert told us, quote, I apologize for using my flatulence
50:29
Speaker 1: as a medium of public commentary in your presence. He
50:33
Speaker 1: also asked us to refer to him either as a
50:35
Speaker 1: gallivanting boulevardier or a beer-fueled sex rocket i mean that's
50:41
Speaker 1: what i thought fueled this guy is great i want
50:44
Speaker 1: to have this guy on the pod.
50:46
Speaker 5: He seems like an offline guest to me personally.
50:48
Speaker 1: But no yeah beer-fueled sex rocket starting up a storm.
50:52
Speaker 5: That was the part when i read that i was
50:54
Speaker 5: like this can't possibly be real but as far as
50:58
Speaker 5: i'm concerned it's real.
51:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess successful press dinner for RFK Jr., huh?
51:05
Speaker 5: He got in the press. Got on this podcast.
51:08
Speaker 1: The piece says, finally, the candidate maintained a steady composure
51:12
Speaker 1: in the face of the crisis. In case you were
51:15
Speaker 1: wondering what RFK Jr. 's reaction was to all this,
51:19
Speaker 1: he just sat, probably wondered how he got there.
51:23
Speaker 5: Do you think it's at all tied to the fact
51:25
Speaker 5: that he hired Dennis Kucinich to be his campaign manager?
51:27
Speaker 1: Sure. You think he's proud? You think he's proud of
51:29
Speaker 1: this campaign? You think the Kennedy family's proud?
51:35
Speaker 5: Camelot.
51:38
Speaker 1: Wow. So that's it. It's just a lot of farting.
51:43
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say about it.
51:45
Speaker 5: Just read the piece before it gets taken down.
51:48
Speaker 1: Read the piece. I mean, I couldn't stop myself. I
51:51
Speaker 1: read most of it. I read all the good parts,
51:53
Speaker 1: just so you all know. All right. Well, that's all
51:54
Speaker 1: we have for today. Thanks to Kelly Copeland for joining us.
51:57
Speaker 1: Everyone have a fantastic weekend and we'll be back next week.
52:00
Speaker 5: Bye everyone.
52:02
Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
52:05
Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein
52:09
Speaker 1: and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
52:14
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52:16
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52:20
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52:24
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