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Tuna Fisheries and Forced Labor: A Deep Dive into Eco-Label Shortcomings · How To Protect The Ocean

0:00
I want you to picture this, you're in a restaurant, maybe a sushi restaurant, you've
0:03
gone out for sushi with some friends or a group of co-workers for lunch and
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you're ready to chow down, you're ready to just mow down all
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you can eat sushi. You get the tuna spicy roll, it's
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great, it's got a little bit of a kick. it's
0:17
tuna so you know it's good fish and you're eating it
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and eating it and eating it and you're eating it because you've done the responsible thing
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and looking at the restaurant making sure that it follows like the eco labels and
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to be sure that hey you know what this restaurant is buying certified
0:33
sustainable seafood right once you do that No
0:37
guilt, right? You're trying to do the best you can because you've been
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listening to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, and Andrew has said, follow Seafood
0:45
Watch, follow the Marine Stewardship Council, follow all these ecolabels because
0:48
they've done the work to do the best they can to make sure that
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the seafood that you're eating is the best. And if it isn't,
0:55
that you should avoid. It should tell you that you should avoid it or doesn't support it. And
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that's what we do. We trust in these type of
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ecolabels. But are these ecolabels perfect?
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No. And today we're going to talk about one of the major reasons why they're not perfect
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and why they need to do better. But we're also going to talk about,
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is this the end of these ecolabels? It's going to be a really interesting conversation.
1:18
Let's talk about it on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's
1:21
start the show. Hey
1:27
everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm
1:30
your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with
1:33
the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for
1:37
a better ocean by taking action. And
1:40
on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about tuna fish. We're gonna be talking about tuna
1:44
fisheries, as we did on Monday's episode, two episodes ago.
1:48
where we had the ISSF on the show. It's the International
1:51
Sustainable Seafood Foundation on the show. And
1:55
to talk to Vincent Restrepo, Dr. Restrepo
1:59
to talk about just the sort of the annual report on
2:02
tuna fisheries. We talked about how some busting some of the
2:06
myths of what it is to do to overfish or what dolphins
2:10
in seafood or in tuna fish and so forth. And
2:13
where that's actually concentrated. But we also talked about some
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of the shortcomings of the tuna fisheries and
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not being able to track everything in these regional fishering management
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areas, the RMFOs. And so we're going
2:29
to talk a little bit more about that because there was a new publication
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in Nature, the Ocean Sustainability section. And
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it was an article that was penned by Katrina
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Nakamura. Katrina talks about
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how the Marine Stewardship Council falls short of
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reporting on forced labor. This is fishery slavery. This
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is basically where people go on boats, they get coaxed to
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come on boats, they get paid for fishing boats, but
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then they never get off, or it takes a while before they get off and they're treated like
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crap. They're treated essentially like slaves. like modern
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day slaves. These are people who are not fed properly. They
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don't have access to clean water, just clean anything. It's
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horrible the way they're treated. A lot
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of times if they get sick, they're thrown overboard. And because tuna fisheries
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are so far offshore, It's
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really difficult to monitor them. And so when we talk about
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forced labor and the reporting that the Marine Stewardship Council requires,
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you know, we have to start holding them to a better standard
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than what is actually reported by
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Katrina in this article. So I'm gonna put the link to the article so
3:46
that you can check it out. I highly recommend it I've also looked at
3:49
sort of a summary that Oceana has published because they're advertising
3:53
this across social media that I've seen And they're they're
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letting people know that the MSC the eco label may not be what
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it seems to be Especially when it comes to forced label forced labor because
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of what they demand in terms of what they demand for reporting on
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forced labor So we're gonna talk about that all in good
4:10
time. We've
4:25
talked about jobs and we've talked about something that's really important
4:30
when we get jobs. You want to get a job at an eco-label,
4:33
you want to get a job in research, you want to get a
4:37
job working for a non-profit organization like Oceana. A
4:40
lot of times you'll see like program manager or policy
4:44
analyst or like different, you know, office jobs or
4:48
even field jobs or jobs that have a field component that require some
4:52
type of project management. And you don't get
4:56
project management courses always available to you at
5:00
your university. So you may not have done it in undergrad. You may not have even
5:03
done it in grad school. You may not even know what it's all about. You may already have the
5:06
skills, but you just don't understand what those skills are because you've
5:10
never really taken it and you may have just just incorporate them in your job anyway.
5:13
So some of you may get those jobs based on what you've experienced, but
5:17
others need a little help. And that's something like I do when I did
5:20
my communications course with Conservation Careers. They're offering a
5:24
program management, a project management course, so you can look
5:27
at what it actually takes to become a program manager.
5:32
and what it is for conservation. It's specific for conservation and
5:37
you have the chance to be able to take this course online. It's
5:41
asynchronous so you can just take it and watch the videos and do whatever you need. There's
5:45
somebody who's there to monitor all your tasks and all your reports and things like
5:48
that that you have to hand in for the course to help you get better at that.
5:51
There's a great group that you can use to
5:55
help you throughout that and while you're watching the videos, asking questions
5:58
and so forth and support your work that you're doing. through an
6:02
app called Circle, and it's fantastic. It's all
6:05
seamless, they put you on the app, you get to look at that app
6:08
whenever you want, you get to watch it on the go, whether you're at home, whether you're on the
6:11
go, it doesn't matter, you're in a car, you're on a bus, you can always
6:15
take this course and watch the material, and I just think it's great.
6:18
And right now, it's offered until September 27th, it's offered for 33% off.
6:23
All you have to do is just use the link in the show notes or
6:27
in the description if you're watching this on YouTube, or if you're on an app, it's in the show
6:30
notes, Just check it out, take a look at it, read what it's
6:33
all about, and then use the link to sign up
6:37
for the course. I do get a little piece of
6:40
the action, but also you get to help your
6:44
career. And yeah, that's essentially it.
6:47
So check that out, link in the show notes, and I will
6:51
be able to answer any questions that you
6:54
might have on this. Anyway, let's get back to the show because this
6:57
is something that's really important. Oceana has put out
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an article, a press release really, to
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talk about what's happening with tuna fishing. And
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we talked about tuna fishing on Monday, on the two episodes ago, and
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we talked about sort of where things are at based on the annual report. We never really
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talked about forced labor because forced labor is
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covered under the I guess the application status
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or the reporting for the MSC, which is the Marine
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Stewardship Council, which is an eco-label that basically certifies the
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tuna fishing label, the vessel, the distribution companies, the processing
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companies, and so forth, the whole supply chain as
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eco-friendly and as following all of the
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demands that are required to qualify under the
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MSC, under the Marine Stewardship Council. But there's a
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problem with forced labor. And it was highlighted by Katrina Nakamura,
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who put out this article that Oceana is
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publicizing, because it's something that is concerning
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when we look at it. And like I mentioned in the beginning in the intro, You
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know, you're at a restaurant or you're buying seafood. You
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look for the MSC label just like I do. And you're like, oh, this is
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a label, an Inco label that we can trust. This is something that we can see that
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is, you know, they're using proper, they're treating their employees properly,
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the fishers properly, the processors and everything like that throughout the supply chain
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properly. They're following human rights sessions, as
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everybody should be. They're making sure that the tuna is sustainable and
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following the rules of each RMFO and all that
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kind of stuff. But unfortunately for this situation, it
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doesn't look like it's easy to track or it's being tracked properly when
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it comes to forced labor. And that's really what
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it comes down to the problem. So the
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person who wrote it, Katrina Nakamura, who's a PhD, said,
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and I quote, in a matter of minutes, I was able to find multiple cases
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of forced labor on vessels that are part of the MSC, the
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Marine Stewardship Council Certified Fisheries, by comparing data
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from the vessel registries of all the tuna regional
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fisheries management organizations against highly publicized lists
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of implicated vessels. She goes on to say, if
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it was this easy for me to find this information, it's
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hard to believe that MSC could be unaware of
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this problem. There is an estimated 128,000 fishers
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that are trapped in forced labor aboard fishing vessels by
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businesses recruiting fishers for very low
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wages to work intensely in hazardous and remote conditions who
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then experience untended injuries, illness, unpaid and
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withheld wages, psychological or physical abuse.
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Nakamura analyzed data from 3,313 tuna vessels
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listed on the MSC's website and found that 74% of
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MSC certified sustainable tuna was untraceable to
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the vessel owners fishing or fishing employers. So
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being able to have the tuna that's coming through the
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supply chain, so the processors, the distributors, and everything like
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that, you couldn't match the vessels of where that's coming from and
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how much they're actually contributing to each one. And so the MSC
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standards rely on self-reported information by trade associations,
10:11
manufacturers, and distributors rather than the
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vessel owners or employers. And the MSC does not
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screen vessels or companies against publicized lists
10:21
of labor abuses, which is what Katrina did for
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this study. So these standards leave room for vessels associated with
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crimes such as human trafficking and forced labor to benefit and
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profit from the MSC eco-label. So in other words, they
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fly under this eco-label, everybody thinks it's fine, they self-report,
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or the vessels don't have to self-report because it's all the different trade
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associations, manufacturers, and distributors that are self-reporting, but
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the vessels, where the forced labor actually happens, does not
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have to self-report. That's a question in itself, like why do the vessels,
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why are the vessels not held accountable? The other thing is too, is
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like nobody looks at these vessels. Nobody goes aboard
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them, there's no fisheries observer, there's no human rights observers that seem to be
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part of this eco-label, you know, sort of requirements. And
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so this, again, is another problem where you're like, well, hold
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on a second, how do you know that this is a problem? What you're
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relying on is the self-reported information from people
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who are not even on the vessel. to say, hey, you know what? We
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haven't seen any indication or any evidence that there's been forced labor.
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It seems like it's a loophole to say, we don't care.
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We're not looking. We don't have to check. It's not saying that we have to check. There's no evidence
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that we have to provide. There are no conditions that we have to look at on
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the vessels. There's no auditors for each vessel. It
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seems like that is missing from the MSE label,
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legal label requirements, right? That's what seems to be missing. And
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so the MSC has recognized concerns about forced labor and human
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rights abuses occurring in tandem with illegal, unreported, and
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unregulated fishing in the tuna supply chain, but tells
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consumers that the best way for tuna buyers to significantly reduce exposure
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to the above risk is to choose MSC certified
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tuna. That's a quote directly from MSC. Now that's
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a little bit of a problem because even though you expect
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the ECO label to be able to be followed, It's not being followed because
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it's not properly reported. So Nakamura continues,
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she says, this is clearly bad advice considering MSC clients, including a
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company associated with the U.S. tuna ban for forced labor,
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whose self-declaration states, quote, no evidence
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of forced labor, end quote. The quote,
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this is Nekomura saying this, the MSC should have far more effective barrier
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for protecting vulnerable workers. They
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evidently choose not to do so. A more robust barrier would
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exclude all companies with any association to fisheries crimes
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and include a firm rule that vessel owners to be identified and
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screened against highly publicized lists of implicated vessels, such
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as the notice of sanction actions published
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on the Federal Register of the United States. It
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seems straightforward. It seems straightforward. So
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the question really comes down to, and I want to be very
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clear here, this episode is not to demonize
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the Marine Stewardship Council. They are taking on
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an amazingly huge task of making
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sure that a supply chain around the world for a number
13:30
of different fisheries, I think it's like 400 and some odd fisheries, are
13:34
sustainable and are following human rights, are
13:38
treating their employees properly, treating their contractors and the fishers properly.
13:43
It is not easy. The MSC is not a huge organization. However,
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it has taken on the task and the responsibility to ensure that
13:51
the consumers that are consuming the fisheries
13:55
and the fish are
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understanding that everything is good with the
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fisheries. With all things considered, everything should
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be good. There shouldn't be any forced labor. There
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should be sustainable treatment of the fish and the fisheries.
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We should know that they're following quotas and following the rules of the RFMOs. You
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know, this is pretty easy to do. Well,
14:25
it's pretty easy to think about, but it's not easy to do. Like, I fully
14:29
recognize this is not easy to do. However, it's
14:32
very difficult when, you know, MSC is certifying
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that there's no forced labor, when it's self-reported by people that are not even on the
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boat. That's really tough to swallow. It's a tough pill
14:42
to swallow. So according to the
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solutions here, to help mitigate labor violations at sea, Oceana
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is calling on world governments to apply for the Global Charter of
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Fisheries Transparency. The charter
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pinpoints the most essential policy priorities
15:01
needed to combat fisheries management, illegal fishing, and
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human rights abuses at sea, including collecting data on the conditions of
15:08
fishing vessel crews and publishing it while keeping
15:11
it personally identifiable information primary. it. That's
15:15
pretty easy. It looks like the system's already there. So
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my question is, how many countries are a part of this and why aren't countries signing up
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more and more? So in the United States, Oceania is campaigning
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for immediate action to address illegal fishing, seafood fraud, and human rights
15:30
abuses in the US seafood supply chain. This includes
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expanding the seafood import monitoring programs called SIMP
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to cover all seafood. Only 45% of the imported seafood is currently
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covered, and all production standards, including forced
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labor. That's the article. I've read a lot of it because
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I thought it was really important for you to know. I'll link to
15:51
it in the show notes and in the description on our YouTube video. This
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is very concerning. You know, like I said before, as
15:59
a consumer and as someone on the end user point,
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when you're trying to use these ecolabels, you know they're never going to be perfect.
16:08
But forced labor is a serious thing that's happening around
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the world and it's disrupting and harming
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the lives of a lot of individuals and families of
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vulnerable people. These are people who are trying to make money to
16:23
protect their kids, to protect their families, to ensure that their families can
16:27
thrive and survive. And
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they may never see their families again. They may never be able to send their money back
16:34
home again because of fishing vessels
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that are up to no good. A
16:41
lot of times, we talk about protecting the environment, protecting
16:45
fisheries, protecting the ocean. I mean, this is what this podcast is about. But
16:49
it has to be human-centric. We have to protect the humans that are using the
16:52
oceans. We have to protect the fishers as much as possible. while
16:56
protecting the ocean. This is why conservation is so complex.
17:00
It is so difficult to be able to do. You can't just
17:03
snap your fingers and say, hey, this is easy. We're going to be able to do
17:07
this. Just stop eating seafood. That's not going to happen around
17:10
the world. I wish it was that easy. It's
17:14
very complex. 60% of the population of our 8 billion population
17:19
on the planet lives along the coastline. And they
17:22
need to be fed. They need to eat. And a lot of the times they
17:26
look towards fishing and fish and seafood to be
17:29
able to eat. Now, there are ways to make it more sustainable and there are many
17:32
ways that we can reduce our impact on fisheries and on the
17:36
oceans. We just have to put them in place. And when there are ecolabels who
17:39
are trying to do the best that they can to get these done, like MSC, like
17:43
Seafood Watch, we have to make sure that they are being held to the
17:46
standard that they are professing. If
17:49
they're not being able to do that, we have to put them like, what Katrina is doing is
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not just identifying the problem, but demanding a solution, right?
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You can't claim that you are making sure that there's no forced labor
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in tuna fisheries when we know that there's forced labor in
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tuna fisheries. We've proven that. Katrina looked at those lists and
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said, hey, you know what? We have one list of the fishing vessels, but
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there are some fishing vessels that are on this list that have been accused of
18:16
forced labor. And they're under the MSC label.
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And they're saying, hey, you know what? We've self-identified, we self-proclaimed,
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there's no problem here. Nothing to see here, just look away.
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And nobody's looking, nobody's looking. They're just expecting them to
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work on the honor system. Well, people who do forced labor are not honorable
18:35
and they do not work on the honor system. And we need to make sure that the
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eco labels that say that they're gonna do something, that
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they need to do something. If not, we need to hold it to better standards.
18:46
or they need to take away that they can say that these ecolabels
18:50
stop forced labor. I would love for them to stop forced labor. It's not easy.
18:54
It's very difficult to do so. There's a lot of crime involved, crime
18:58
syndicates. It's very hard to track. We've talked about it before on this
19:01
podcast, but it'd be great if they could, you know, hold
19:05
them to the fire and say, let's do better, right?
19:09
These ecolabels do a lot of great things. but sometimes
19:12
there's some shortcomings and now we've seen it and this is a very serious
19:16
matter we're talking about forced labor talking about fisheries slaves
19:21
We can't have it. It's unacceptable. So they need to improve that
19:25
process. I did try to reach out to MSC, some
19:28
of my contacts, but it seems like I couldn't get ahold of them. And
19:32
I would love to hear from them at some point, and hopefully we'll hear a response from
19:36
them. But the fact that it's saying, hey, you're better off buying tuna
19:40
fish that are under this label, under the MSC label,
19:43
because we know we're doing our best to stop forced labor doesn't necessarily mean
19:48
that they're stopping forced labor. With that said, does it mean that other
19:53
fish and seafood that's within the MSC is
19:57
bad? Not necessarily, right? And
20:00
so you have to look at it from case by case basis. What I would suggest,
20:04
stop eating tuna altogether until we know more about this forced labor stuff.
20:09
But that's again, a difficult thing to do. I'm in the position where
20:12
I can do that. I'm not sure if everybody's in that position. But
20:16
if you don't need tuna in your diet, or you don't have tuna in your diet, it makes it
20:19
easy. But if you need tuna, it makes it harder. But
20:24
we need to make sure that these ecolabels, like
20:28
MSC, are held to the standard that they're professing that
20:31
they're keeping. So I'd love to hear your, you
20:35
know, I'd love to hear what you think about this. You know, I did cover an
20:39
episode just a couple days ago or a couple episodes ago where
20:42
we talked about tuna fishing. We talked about some of the problems that we have. We talked about how, you
20:45
know, some RFMOs are not able to
20:49
look at different RFMOs. We don't know if they're double dipping
20:53
and some of the vessels are double dipping. And it sounds like there's not a lot of quality
20:57
control on the vessels themselves. in terms of what they're doing on
21:00
the vessels. And so there's some problems. We know that there's
21:04
these problems. Now it's a matter of making sure that ecolabels like
21:07
MSC, who say they're looking after that, do better in looking after that. So
21:12
I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Have you heard anything different?
21:16
Have you heard of any response from MSC? I would love to
21:19
hear from you, because this is a community. This is the beginning. I'd like to start off
21:22
the conversation. You guys continue it. And I'd love to
21:25
hear from you on YouTube. You can drop a comment in the
21:29
comments section, of course. Also, you can do that on Spotify.
21:35
And of course, you can always hit me up on Instagram, at howtoprotecttheocean. That's
21:39
at howtoprotecttheocean. I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's
21:42
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to
21:45
you. Oh, by the way, I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. Talk