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Why Small Things Trigger Big Meltdowns: How Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria Hijacks ADHD Kids · Raising ADHD: Real Talk For Parents & Educators

0:00
Apryl: So maybe you've had this experience where you tell your child no or um you know put away the screen or something like that, something that feels very small to you, and suddenly it's like the whole world collapses.
0:13
Apryl: Tears, anger, you don't believe me, or you never let me play the iPad, and they just total meltdown, and you stand there stunned, wondering how something so small could turn into such a big explosion.
0:29
Apryl: You are not imagining it.
0:30
Apryl: This actually has a name, and I didn't even it's it's been very recently that I actually learned about this, like within the last few years, and it's called Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria or RSD.
0:46
Apryl: And for kids with ADHD, it can shape their entire world.
0:52
Apryl: Welcome to Raising ADHD, the podcast for parents and teachers raising ADHD kids.
0:59
Apryl: If you've ever felt frustrated, overwhelmed, or just unsure what to do next, you're not alone.
1:04
Apryl: I'm April Bradford, a former teacher and ADHD mom, and alongside my husband, Dr.
1:10
Apryl: Brian Bradford, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, we're here to give you the clarity, strategies, and support you've been looking for.
1:18
Apryl: Every week we break down the misconceptions, answer your biggest questions, and share real tools you can use right away at home and in the classroom.
1:27
Apryl: So if you're ready to feel more confident and less overwhelmed, you're in the right place.
1:32
Apryl: Hey there, welcome back to Racing ADHD.
1:35
Apryl: If you're new here, welcome.
1:37
Apryl: We're so happy to have you.
1:38
Apryl: And if you're returning, hey friend, welcome back.
1:41
Apryl: My name is April Bradford, and here with me is my husband, Dr.
1:45
Apryl: Brian Bradford.
1:47
Brian: Hey, April.
1:48
Apryl: Hello.
1:49
Apryl: Okay, so today we are pack unpacking one of the most understood parts of ADHD.
1:55
Apryl: And I do feel like it's more misunderstood, sorry.
1:59
Apryl: Yes, misunderstood.
2:01
Apryl: And I do feel like it's more of a recent thing that we are hearing more about.
2:08
Apryl: Um, and it's the like I mentioned, RSD, rejection sensitivity, dysphoria, and it's why these kids feel rejection so intensely, and what's actually happening in their brains and how you can help them recover and build resilience.
2:25
Apryl: That's the key, is we really want them to learn to build resilience because this is an issue that they're struggling with.
2:32
Apryl: So, how can we help them?
2:33
Apryl: So, that is what we are diving into today.
2:37
Apryl: So, let's start with what we're really talking about.
2:43
Apryl: RSD isn't just taking things personally, it is a full body emotional response.
2:51
Apryl: And you've probably seen this in your kid when they have these meltdowns.
2:55
Apryl: It is a full, it's a thing.
2:59
Apryl: Um, and so you know, like for them, even though to us it's like, what the heck?
3:04
Apryl: That was just a small thing, it is a very big deal for them.
3:07
Apryl: It's deep, sharp pain that hits when they feel criticized, excluded, or feel like they've failed, even though again, like it could be something very small, and it really wasn't a failure or wasn't intentionally being criticized.
3:22
Apryl: So, Brian, tell us about this.
3:25
Brian: So, I mean, kind of going to the word, so dysphoric, you can think of this as almost like the opposite of euphoric.
3:31
Apryl: Okay.
3:31
Brian: Like euphoric, dysphoric, it's unbearable emotion.
3:36
Brian: And so for kids with ADHD, you can picture this as their brain seeing rejection as danger.
3:44
Brian: Like this is something I've gotta I've gotta fight back at all costs.
3:47
Brian: It's triggering the amygdala, which is your your brain's emotion system, and it's flooding the body with these stress hormones before the the rational part or the logical part even gets a chance to to react.
4:01
Brian: So it's very quick.
4:03
Brian: I need to I need to freak out and fight this.
4:06
Apryl: Yeah.
4:06
Apryl: So and the amygdala is the brain's emotional alarm system.
4:10
Apryl: Like, so they're literally their bodies having like their brains having alarms going off, like, oh my gosh, what's happening here?
4:17
Apryl: So it's not them just being overly dramatic.
4:21
Apryl: It truly is neurological for them, and their brains are wired to feel more, and we already know that they are less capable of regulating, especially in these rejection moments.
4:34
Brian: Right.
4:34
Brian: And so, so these kids with ADHD, kind of to nerd out a little bit, they've got lower activity in the anterior cingulate cortex.
4:43
Apryl: Okay, wait, what is that?
4:44
Brian: So this is a part of your brain, and this is the part that helps manage emotional pain.
4:49
Apryl: Okay.
4:49
Brian: And so when rejection happens, they're feeling this almost like a physical pain.
4:55
Brian: And so you can imagine I fell and hurt my knee.
4:59
Brian: It's the same thing.
5:00
Brian: Like I've I'm having rejection happen and I need to to have that same emotional response.
5:06
Apryl: So even if it's not like true rejection, like falling to falling and hurting your knee isn't no one rejected you, nothing happened, but they're internalizing that and feeling like it feels like they failed because they fell or something like that.
5:20
Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:20
Brian: Yeah, and instead of being able to process this like logically, it's it's an it's an emotional process.
5:27
Apryl: That's so funny and interesting because like our daughter today, we went to go on a bike ride, walk, bike ride with her on her bike, and she fell over, literally didn't really get hurt, but just fell over, and it was like meltdown.
5:48
Apryl: We should have stayed home.
5:49
Apryl: I hate this, blah blah blah.
5:51
Apryl: And I'm like, oh my gosh.
5:52
Apryl: Like, it wasn't that big a deal.
5:55
Brian: Yeah, yeah, and I mean some of this you can look at it like, oh, all teenagers are traumatic, blah blah la.
6:00
Brian: But it it it's in a different way.
6:03
Brian: It's the stimulus is pretty mild and the and it's totally blown out of proportion.
6:08
Brian: Worse than like, oh, my boyfriend broke up with me, whatever.
6:11
Brian: Like you'll see your teens do this, and it's like, okay, yeah, but you can kind of sense like inside they're feeling this is the end of the world.
6:18
Brian: Now, this is we need to go to bed right now.
6:20
Brian: In the grand scheme of things, they lost five minutes of wake time, but in their brain, it's just like it's the end of the world.
6:29
Apryl: Yeah, so little things feel very big to them.
6:32
Brian: Yeah, and so when we're looking in the clinic to diagnose people, when we see people having this out of proportion like blow-ups, it automatically puts ADHD on our differential as a possibility.
6:47
Brian: And then we do we do further dive to see if they're actually meeting the criteria for ADHD.
6:52
Brian: Some of this, like ADHD symptoms that go undetected, like the inattention where the person themselves are feeling it and may not know that it's abnormal.
7:02
Brian: But if they're not hyperactive or or other not having other signs, this could be one of those other kind of hidden signs of like, no, my child, you know, they're C D student, whatever, and they get really emotional sometimes.
7:16
Apryl: Then that becomes a red flag for you.
7:18
Brian: That could be a red flag, yep.
7:19
Apryl: Okay.
7:20
Apryl: So then this can happen in those smallest moments, like a teacher correcting them.
7:25
Apryl: Not even like that, just like something that they do regularly, like, oh hey, check number three, like that kind of thing.
7:33
Apryl: Or a friend not waving back.
7:35
Apryl: Maybe the friend didn't even see them.
7:37
Apryl: A parent saying, Not right now.
7:39
Apryl: These little things, even though it's just little things, they feel 10 times harder.
7:45
Apryl: Every no feels 10 times harder for these kids.
7:48
Apryl: So let's look at what this looks like in every day.
7:54
Apryl: And you might start hearing some of these.
7:56
Apryl: Like, I wish I would have known this as a teacher because there are kids that I did not realize because I knew the typical symptoms of ADHD, right?
8:06
Apryl: And I had kids in my classroom with these symptoms that if I would have known this now, I would have looked at it differently for sure.
8:14
Apryl: So explosive anger after criticism, that is um a way that you can what RSD looks like.
8:23
Apryl: Intense sadness or shame, so those meltdowns, quitting activities after small mistakes, suddenly withdrawing and saying things like, nobody likes me, or I'm just dumb.
8:36
Apryl: These things are this is how RSD shows up.
8:43
Brian: Right.
8:43
Brian: And so kind of like the walking on egg shows thing.
8:46
Brian: But one thing that's unique about this is it's hard to predict what's gonna cause that meltdown.
8:52
Brian: And for people on the outside, it's almost confusing because it's like, wait, why are you upset?
8:58
Brian: Like, well, you don't understand that I waved at Jimmy and they didn't wave back, and now this was my best friend forever, and they now they don't like me.
9:07
Brian: Wait, could they have just maybe missed you and they weren't looking exactly at you?
9:11
Brian: Could have been.
9:12
Brian: Like that's the logical thing of like I need way, way, way more data before I freak out that I've lost my best friend.
9:18
Brian: But for these kids, it's like, wait, they didn't l wave at me.
9:22
Brian: I need to start like going to automatic defense mode.
9:26
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
9:26
Apryl: And oh, I don't like Jimmy.
9:28
Apryl: Well, why don't you like Jimmy?
9:29
Apryl: Well he didn't wave at me.
9:31
Brian: Right.
9:32
Brian: That's not yeah, almost like almost illogical.
9:36
Apryl: Yeah.
9:36
Brian: Quitting after small mistakes, that's that's one of those big ones of like I start a new hobby, things are going amazing, and then all of a sudden I got second place, I'm done.
9:47
Brian: I'm done with this.
9:48
Brian: Like I picture myself getting first, I got second, it's over.
9:51
Brian: I lost the baseball game, I don't even like baseball anymore.
9:54
Apryl: Yeah.
9:55
Apryl: And even in the classroom, you know, like teachers can see it as kids giving up.
10:02
Apryl: Like they get the math problem wrong, or they read the word wrong, especially, you know, if they're like answering a question, you know, they dare raise their hand, answer a question out loud, and then they get it wrong, you will see the RSD show up in these situations.
10:21
Apryl: And and so, and then they shut down or withdraw because they're feeling rejected.
10:28
Apryl: And so one thing to know is this is not manipulation, it's protection.
10:35
Apryl: So them withdrawing, them shutting down, they're protecting themselves from this rejection.
10:43
Brian: Yep, yeah.
10:44
Brian: And they know that that felt bad the first time, so now I don't want to do it.
10:47
Brian: I raise my hand to to give an answer 10 times in a row, but then all of a sudden I got it wrong, and I'm it's it's over.
10:54
Apryl: Yeah, I'm not gonna raise my hand again.
10:55
Apryl: Yep.
10:56
Brian: Right.
10:56
Brian: So they're defense mechanisms.
10:58
Brian: You need to be this is like a defense mechanism.
11:00
Brian: Not necessarily the most mature, the most beneficial, but still a defense mechanism.
11:04
Brian: So the child's brain is just saying, I can't handle more pain, I don't want to experience that again, I need to protect myself.
11:11
Brian: And so if the kid lashes out and he's showing anger and things like that, anger feels better than heartbreak.
11:18
Brian: People who are angry and can still be successful, people who have heartbreak, they failed somehow.
11:24
Apryl: Yes, and I think this goes back to um two episodes ago with the peer relationships, because I'm just thinking about some of the students that I had in the past.
11:35
Apryl: One was a really like super sweet kid, but like just would fly off the handle very quickly.
11:42
Apryl: And it's because, you know, he hadn't this is by third grade, the kids have already like kind of created a barrier between them and him because he did get angry.
11:54
Apryl: But it's like he's getting angrier and angrier the older he gets because it's a protection mechanism from feeling rejected by his peers.
12:03
Apryl: And so we just have to know like it's this is such a key thing to look for.
12:09
Apryl: Um and no watch, you know, like they may lash out or they may shut down.
12:16
Apryl: And because not trying is way easier than failing.
12:21
Apryl: Like it's like, oh, well, if I just don't try, I don't fail.
12:24
Brian: Right.
12:24
Brian: It's way, it's way easier to it feels safer.
12:27
Apryl: It's so much safer for them.
12:28
Apryl: Yeah.
12:28
Apryl: So it's really heartbreaking because what they really want is connection and their brain's protection mode is pushing that away.
12:37
Brian: Yeah, so to go one step deeper.
12:39
Brian: So rejection sensitivity, and kind of like we said, this is more of a new thing that people are talking about now.
12:45
Brian: Yeah, the ideas go back to like the late 90s, but still after ADHD came about, uh, didn't really get popular till like the 2000s and didn't honestly get like really popular until now.
12:56
Brian: So you're not gonna find this in the DSM, you're not gonna find this under the like typical ADHD diagnosis uh criteria.
13:05
Brian: But if you think about this, this is making a lot of sense because ADHD brains, they're already more emotionally reactive, and we know that the dopamine pathways are altered already, hence the reason we're giving stimulants to increase dopamine in different pathways.
13:18
Brian: And these are the ones that regulate emotion, they regulate attention, and the same like if you take caffeine or do something else that's stimulating your emotions are gonna be heightened as well.
13:30
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
13:31
Apryl: So when a child with ADHD gets rejected or even thinks they might be, that's key.
13:37
Apryl: It doesn't even have to be.
13:39
Brian: Right.
13:39
Brian: A lot of these are they're their own perception.
13:41
Brian: You don't actually have to experience rejection, you just have to think you're experiencing rejection.
13:46
Brian: Misinterpretations happen all the time.
13:49
Brian: Just like the like I waved to the kid and he didn't wave back.
13:52
Brian: That would that was a misinterpretation.
13:54
Brian: The kid didn't see you.
13:56
unknown: Yeah.
13:56
Brian: Or or something, you know, something.
13:57
Brian: The kid's hands were full.
13:58
Brian: Like there's something going on there, there's a reason not, and you and your brain interpreted it as this kid doesn't like me now.
14:04
Apryl: Yes.
14:04
Apryl: And it's it's so interesting because it's such a cycle because we know that kids with ADHD have a harder time uh like reading emotional cues and you know, just those social cues and things like that.
14:19
Apryl: And now we have RSD to layer that on top of this.
14:23
Apryl: It's like this vicious cycle.
14:26
Apryl: It's kind of sad and crazy all at the same time.
14:29
Brian: Yep.
14:29
Apryl: Yeah.
14:31
Brian: Right.
14:31
Brian: And so emotional regulation is already one of these things that are a little bit delayed in in our brain's maturation.
14:39
Brian: Uh I mean, toddlers are are obviously still figuring out their emotions.
14:44
Brian: That's they're crying, they're they're upset, they they have big emotion swings, and it takes years and years and years for these emotions to get more and more regulated.
14:53
Brian: But ADHD brains are already developing a little slower, and so all these things are farther behind.
14:59
Brian: So when your teenager has a meltdown, you need to be this almost like your you know elementary school kid is having a meltdown.
15:05
Apryl: Yeah.
15:06
Apryl: Um, and I don't know if we've mentioned this before, but the ADHD brain is about two years behind their peers in like emotional development.
15:18
Apryl: So when you think of that, think of that child and then bump off two years.
15:23
Apryl: Be like, okay, if they're 12, well, how would I treat a 10-year-old?
15:28
Brian: Right.
15:28
Brian: But the school doesn't work that way.
15:29
Brian: Like school dances happen at you know, 16, whatever, and this is like a 14-year-old trying to experience this, and now they're asking girls on dates, and it feels really awkward to be rejected.
15:41
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
15:42
Apryl: So again, another, another layer that just makes this even deeper.
15:46
unknown: Yeah.
15:47
Apryl: It's so hard.
15:48
Apryl: It's very interesting.
15:49
Apryl: I just started reading the book The Whole Brain Child, and it's talking about the two hemispheres of the brain, you know, the right and the left, or the left is logical, right is emotional, and how um kids get dysregulated because they they either respond with emotional, which babies, toddlers, they have no like their logical side of their brain isn't developed really at all.
16:19
Apryl: So they do respond with emotion, right?
16:23
Apryl: They have the meltdowns and things.
16:24
Apryl: But then as they get older, the logical brain, you can you can see when the logical brain starts to develop and like kind of come online, because then they start to, you know, I say this in quotes, use their words and talk a little bit more and be able to explain a little bit more.
16:43
Apryl: But it's this book teaches like 12 ways to get their brains so that when they respond, that they're using both sides of the brain, logical and emotional, so they come together and can make really good responses.
17:00
Apryl: So again, I haven't finished it, but it's very interesting how well it ties in with RSD.
17:08
Apryl: So, with that said, I would recommend the book, The Whole Brain Child.
17:13
Apryl: And so, what can parents do?
17:15
Apryl: Read that book, number one.
17:17
Apryl: And we don't want to bubble wrap our kids and just, you know, after every disappointment, like we have to teach them to be resilient and we have to give them tools.
17:27
Apryl: So what's something we can do, Brian?
17:31
Brian: So, I mean, first step has got to be recognition.
17:35
Brian: So, recognizing what RSD is and when your child is starting to do this, and recognizing why they're doing this, and then this isn't them necessarily just trying to manipulate me, but more to protect themselves from this pain.
17:50
Brian: And so when it's late at night and it's like it's time to go to bed, and your child has like, oh crap, like big meltdown, I need to, you know, do the whole bit.
17:59
Brian: This isn't because they're trying to necessarily get an extra few minutes, although it could be you gotta watch out for that.
18:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:04
Brian: But it could be, man, I had this, these thoughts in my head that I was gonna get this down, and now it just turned out that it's not going to happen.
18:13
Brian: And I'm dealing with the emotions of this.
18:15
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
18:16
Apryl: Like I thought that I was gonna get a play for five minutes, and now mom's making me go to bed, and that's rejection.
18:22
Apryl: So being able to first recognize that and naming it.
18:27
Apryl: So saying it out loud, like, oh, it feels really hard when it's time to go to bed and you still wanted to play with your toys.
18:36
Apryl: And and even with your, I mean, that's obviously for little kids, but even your older kids, I think it's actually even more helpful for our teenage kids to see, like, yeah, it sucks when your friend doesn't sit by you at lunch and goes and sits at a different table.
18:58
Apryl: Like, name that, like, show that emotion and be like, yeah, I get it.
19:03
Apryl: Like that that hurts, that's painful.
19:06
Apryl: Um, and when you're doing that, you're teaching them language for what's happening inside.
19:13
Apryl: So you can, you know, make that emotion more like put words to that emotion.
19:19
Brian: Right.
19:19
Brian: And them understanding what's going on also helps being, you know, helps protective or helps helps protect themselves because then they're like, oh, I'm having this emotion because of this, and it's not because I'm a bad person.
19:31
Apryl: Yes.
19:32
Apryl: Yeah, well, and I think that's one of the biggest things is because we know that kids with ADHD struggle with self-esteem and things, and it is they get so hard on themselves in these rejection moments, so it's very beneficial.
19:46
Apryl: That's a really good point.
19:47
Brian: Right.
19:48
Brian: So next is co-regulation.
19:51
Brian: So recognition first, then co-regulation.
19:54
Brian: And I feel like this is especially important because a lot of you parents are also gonna have ADHD.
19:59
Brian: I mean, it's just such a genetic disorder that you say you parents, do you mean us parents?
20:04
Brian: Y'all parents.
20:06
Brian: And us parents.
20:07
Apryl: Yes.
20:08
Brian: Yes.
20:08
Brian: So us parents, we there's a I mean, there's a very good chance we have ADHD.
20:13
Brian: And if not, we at least have you know our own emotions and things like that.
20:18
Brian: So when these things happen, don't start a fight.
20:21
Brian: Don't be like, oh yeah, I'm about to win this fight.
20:24
Brian: This is your time to be calm and be like and ground yourself and then start going about it rather than I need to be reactive.
20:32
Apryl: And this can also be so, for example, our daughter the other day, she came home from school.
20:39
Apryl: Um, she had speech therapy right after school.
20:43
Apryl: It was one of those nights where sleep was really difficult, so she was already tired.
20:48
Apryl: And after speech, she just melted down, like just crying and crying.
20:54
Apryl: And I was like, What the heck is going on?
20:57
Apryl: And she's like, I didn't get a special pencil at school today.
21:01
Apryl: I was like, what are you talking about?
21:02
Apryl: And she's like, We took a test and I didn't do good on it, and I didn't get a pencil, and my teacher said I'm gonna have to learn how to read again, and so I'm like, So immediately, you know, when your child is sad and in pain and the mama bear comes out, you know, it's like, oh that teacher just gonna, you know, like all of a sudden it's like, well, why didn't she get a pencil?
21:28
Apryl: Blah blah blah, you know, because she's so upset about it.
21:32
Apryl: And so this is a time to also don't take action right then, step back and regulate yourself for a minute, because there's probably a lot more to that story than what you're hearing right there in the meltdown moment.
21:52
Brian: There's definitely more to that story.
21:53
Brian: There's no way the teacher went up and was like, you're gonna have to learn to read again.
21:56
Apryl: Yeah, no.
21:57
Apryl: And I did email the teacher, you know, at this point because I was out of concern for, oh, if she didn't do well, like, is there something at home that we can be working on?
22:08
Apryl: I wasn't like, you blah, blah, blah, blah.
22:12
Apryl: Like I was like, hey, Audile was really upset about this test and her score on the test.
22:17
Apryl: Can you tell me what happened?
22:20
Apryl: Is there something that we can be working on at home?
22:22
Apryl: You know?
22:23
Apryl: And the teacher's like, she just finished really fast, and that's not typical of her.
22:27
Apryl: So I was like, oh, okay.
22:29
Brian: Because there's a pencil involved.
22:30
Brian: Faster I get this, the faster I get the pencil.
22:33
Apryl: That's probably what it was.
22:34
Apryl: I didn't even think about that.
22:36
Brian: I want to hit a home run.
22:37
Brian: I swung before the ball even got to me.
22:38
Apryl: Yeah.
22:39
Apryl: Well, and like I'm like, she was really tired because she didn't sleep well, you know.
22:43
Apryl: It was a few days before Halloween, just the whole thing.
22:46
Apryl: So I was like, okay, well, at least I know now that it like usually she does well on this.
22:52
Apryl: It was just this one incidence.
22:53
Apryl: But again, I wasn't like yelling at the teacher.
22:56
Apryl: I was really just asking, like, hey, can you further explain?
23:00
Apryl: Because I can't get out of her what the heck is happening, and she's having this emotional meltdown.
23:05
Apryl: But then the rest of the night she was fine, you know, it was just like that.
23:09
Brian: Yeah.
23:09
Brian: This is also a good example of being out of proportion.
23:13
Brian: I mean, it's a pencil.
23:14
Brian: We have a a drawer full of Oh my gosh, we have drawers.
23:18
Brian: Whatever you need to write, but it was, you know, just this this pencil, and I I wanted it, and that was it.
23:24
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
23:25
Apryl: Yep.
23:25
Apryl: So yeah, co-rad regulating yourself, like getting yourself regulated first so that you can be that emotional anchor.
23:34
Apryl: Like that was I was like, okay, I have to call like I mean, I didn't get super upset because I've been learning all of this stuff, you know, like trying.
23:43
Apryl: Um, and so but trying to regulate her, because the more upset you get, the more upset they get.
23:49
Apryl: Okay, so Brian, what's the next step after the co-regulation?
23:54
Brian: Right.
23:54
Brian: So over time, what we really want to do is build resilience.
23:59
Brian: And one way the the therapists do this is what is called controlled failure.
24:04
Brian: And you can view this as like small, safe experiences of disappointment followed by recovery.
24:10
Brian: And then this can be pretty broad, but this can be anything from like, you know what, let's sit down and play a game.
24:16
Brian: Only it's something like chess or something where there's a decent chance they're actually gonna lose.
24:22
Brian: And then you process, okay, what what's going on?
24:25
Brian: Like what how are you feeling?
24:28
Brian: Like afterwards, you know what I mean?
24:29
Brian: And if that's like big time upset, it's like, you know, is this really the end of the world?
24:35
Brian: You know what I mean?
24:36
Brian: That kind of thing.
24:37
Apryl: That's such a good one because how many times do us as parents let our kids win the game?
24:42
Apryl: Yeah, exactly.
24:42
Apryl: We want our kids to feel good and exactly, or we know, you know, like once they get a little older, it's like, no, like you're old enough to handle the loss, so then we win, but then all of a sudden they have this major meltdown.
24:56
Apryl: Then next time we're like, no, we'll just let them win because that wasn't worth it, right?
24:59
Apryl: This was supposed to be a fun time.
25:01
Apryl: But that's a really good idea and really great, like that's a safe place to practice failure.
25:06
Apryl: Like it's not really affecting anything, they just lost a game.
25:11
Brian: Yeah, there's no outcome, it it does not matter.
25:14
Brian: Uh, this is another one, this is kind of a little deeper, but uh for social resilience during role play, intentionally misinterpret their statements or give like constructive feedback just so that they have like a minor rejection of like when they're like, Oh, I want to go do this, and you're like, Oh, are you saying you want to go do something just slightly different?
25:37
Brian: Like, oh, I really want to go on a hike.
25:40
Brian: Oh, really?
25:41
Brian: You just you want to go walk, like walk at the park?
25:43
Brian: No, no, I I said I want to go hike.
25:45
Brian: Oh, I thought you said walk at the park.
25:47
Brian: Wait, why would you say, you know, just something to cause like a little bit of that that frustration and them to realize like it's it's not a big deal, and now you know I can either move on or adapt to this.
25:59
Apryl: Yeah, how do you work through that situation?
26:01
Brian: How do we work through that?
26:02
Brian: And the the constructive feedback so often we want to be like, you know, good job, good job, good job.
26:06
Brian: But okay, it's okay, it's sometimes okay to be like, hey, good job.
26:10
Brian: I liked how you do this.
26:11
Brian: Uh if we were doing this again, like swinging a little faster or shooting a little further would be maybe your next steps and what you could do to work on getting better.
26:20
Brian: And then it's like, oh shoot, I I didn't do it perfect, but but it's not a big deal.
26:25
Brian: Like, you know.
26:27
Apryl: Yeah.
26:27
Apryl: Do you remember that reel that you and I just recently watched of the dad helping, he was like three years old helping the kids.
26:33
Brian: He was whacking the balls.
26:34
Brian: Yeah.
26:34
Brian: Just swinging that bat like that.
26:37
Apryl: And it was a therapist responding to how this dad was teaching this little boy how to hit, like, hit in baseball.
26:44
Apryl: And um the dad was so good at that of the here's the positive.
26:50
Apryl: Like, look, you did really good.
26:52
Apryl: You brought the bat around fast, but did you notice where did the ball go?
26:55
Apryl: You know, and he showed him, like, okay, when you swing too fast, the ball's gonna go over here.
27:00
Apryl: So then the dad goes and pitches it again, and he's like, Oh, so he, you know, he taught him that mini lesson of like, oh, the ball goes over here when you swing too fast.
27:09
Apryl: But then when the boy hit it again, the dad asks, Oh, what did you notice?
27:13
Apryl: What it what happened there?
27:14
Apryl: And because the ball went to the same place.
27:16
Apryl: And he's like, Oh, I hit the ball too fast.
27:19
Apryl: Like little things like that that we can teach, I think, really help with the resilience too.
27:25
Brian: Yeah, exactly.
27:26
Brian: That was actually a cool reel.
27:27
Apryl: Yeah, it was so yeah, I think this is really, really good and really great ways.
27:32
Apryl: I mean, even teenagers like playing it game night sometimes.
27:37
Apryl: I mean, it makes me think back to you and your friends playing, was it Halo?
27:44
Brian: Yeah.
27:45
Brian: Yeah, we had some Halo nights.
27:47
Apryl: And one friend getting very upset because Brian was just being funny and just going through and you know.
27:54
Brian: I mean, this guy was terrible, and all he wanted to do was drive the vehicle around and one of us would shoot him.
28:00
Brian: And You would.
28:01
Apryl: You would.
28:03
Brian: I said one of us.
28:04
Brian: I'm one of us.
28:05
Brian: Anyway, couldn't resist.
28:09
Apryl: I think this friend had some undiagnosed ADHD probably and some uh rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria going on right there, because then the anger triggered and then he like started beating up.
28:24
Brian: I mean it was all the it was all the things to trigger.
28:28
Apryl: Yes.
28:28
Apryl: So, but you know, like play video games with your kids and you know do things like that in this like controlled environment.
28:38
Apryl: I mean, don't like constantly do it like Brian did to the point of just being absolutely irritating.
28:43
Brian: But yeah, I mean I'm sure I was being obnoxious.
28:46
Brian: Yeah.
28:46
Brian: So with teens you can actually do another thing, and that's planning tasks.
28:51
Brian: Especially tasks that are maybe a little bit beyond what they're able to do.
28:55
Brian: Like, hey, this weekend you need to start organizing your room.
28:59
Brian: You need to get this, this, and this done.
29:01
Brian: And you can plan it just a little bit further than you think they're actually able to do.
29:05
Brian: And then when they inevitably don't get it all the way done, or it's you know, halfway done, then processing that with them and be like, okay, what was going on, and how are you feeling now that you didn't get it done?
29:18
Brian: And what can you do to to get the next steps done?
29:21
Brian: Or mow the yard or whatever.
29:23
Brian: I mean, just just something, but you wanna you want to push them.
29:26
Brian: You don't want to go mow the yard, poof, I mow the yard, it's done.
29:29
Apryl: Yeah.
29:30
Apryl: I like that.
29:31
Apryl: Another thing too is like um preparing our kids for situations that we know are coming up and talking to them.
29:40
Apryl: So, for example, like going back to the high school dance and I know middle school dances, at least where you and I grew up, it was during the school day and people just got asked to dance.
29:52
Apryl: You didn't like ask someone to the dance and go with a specific date.
29:56
Brian: So there's no preparation before the dance started.
29:59
Apryl: Yeah, no, no.
29:59
Apryl: No, it's just everyone showed like literally it was during the last period of the day.
30:04
Apryl: But like planning for those tricky situations, like, hey, what are you gonna do if you know so and so doesn't ask you to dance?
30:13
Apryl: Like, how are we gonna respond to that and talk through those situations that you know are going to be tricky and come up with a game plan before that happens, and so then they can um practice their recovery moves in a safe space at home so then they can, you know, start preparing for that.
30:37
Brian: Right, especially because so many of our kids, even our teens, are setting themselves up for things that they, you know, have like a low, low likelihood of success, and then you can just say, so what are you gonna do when this new million-dollar business that you're planning on?
30:54
Apryl: Million dollar business.
30:55
Apryl: I think the dance is more realistic.
30:57
Brian: Yeah.
30:58
Brian: But I mean, well, all right, yeah, not the business, but whatever it is that when the kid's like, here's my plan, I'm you know, about to turn my car into a drag drag race car or something like this.
31:09
Apryl: Oh yeah, Brian was gonna do that.
31:11
Brian: Is this is this realistic?
31:13
Brian: Like, can you really do this?
31:14
Apryl: Or yeah, but but planning those tricky situations where you know rejection is likely to happen, or the baseball game.
31:22
Apryl: Like if your kid struggles with baseball and because our kids we know are highly emotional, and so like crying comes easier.
31:30
Apryl: Um, I was just attending a webinar with um now I can't remember their names, but they're one the ones who wrote ADHD is awesome, and then they just came out with a kid's book, Pen.
31:42
Apryl: I can't remember his last name.
31:43
Apryl: Anyway, but he's like, I would cry easily, and the kids would make fun of me at school.
31:49
Apryl: And so, you know, like baseball.
31:51
Apryl: I remember a kid that I went to school with, basketball, if he like lost or the ball didn't get tossed, thrown to him, like he would start crying and we would make fun of him, right?
32:01
Apryl: So if you know like your kid struggles, okay, if you strike out at the baseball game, what are we gonna do?
32:10
Apryl: Like making plans like that can be very helpful.
32:13
Brian: So, all right, last thing that can also help therapy.
32:16
Brian: CBT, DBT, uh, this is the cognitive behavioral therapy.
32:21
Brian: I think we've talked about this already.
32:23
Brian: DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy, which which when I'm saying using this for ADHD, I'm mostly saying like using some of the the emotional regulation skills that are taught in DBT.
32:34
Brian: But just like you can use medication to help with some of the ADHD symptoms, the therapy can also come in and teach you skills and strategies to help to help regulate these emotions.
32:46
Apryl: And are these um types of therapies helpful for every age?
32:52
Brian: Yeah, I mean, uh yeah, for the most part.
32:55
Brian: Uh and and therapy just in general can be helpful for pretty much every age.
33:00
Brian: You've got to you've gotta find the therapist that you're able to get along with and be able to really connect with your child and with you if you're gonna do your own therapy.
33:10
Brian: But connecting with your therapist and then yeah, learning the skills through these therapies.
33:16
Apryl: Seems like play therapy would probably be helpful for the younger kids too, because that's where a lot of their rejection is happening for the most part.
33:25
Brian: Yeah, yeah.
33:25
Brian: Especially like the the parent-child interaction training, which we talked about a couple episodes ago.
33:30
Brian: That parent-child interaction training can really help with emotional regulation in the really young kids.
33:36
Apryl: Cool.
33:37
Apryl: I like it.
33:38
Apryl: Okay, so um, those are the steps to help start building resilience in your kids with who struggle with RSD.
33:48
Apryl: So let's talk really quick some tips for teachers and caregivers.
33:52
Apryl: Um, if you're seeing this in the classroom.
33:55
Apryl: So when a student overreact overreacts to correction, remember RSD is perceived rejection.
34:06
Apryl: So your correction, even though like to you and to most students, that's not that big of a deal.
34:13
Apryl: But to this, these students, it is they're perceiving this as rejection.
34:20
Apryl: And so a neutral tone can make the difference between a calm response and a complete meltdown or collapse withdrawal from this child.
34:32
Apryl: So keep your response just very neutral.
34:36
Brian: Right.
34:37
Brian: And when you do this, so so when the initial event happens, we look at it and it's like, oh, we need a small correction to get them back on course.
34:44
Brian: But for the child, they say, Oh, I just did something terrible.
34:48
Brian: I'm having rejection, like people don't like me, like your your world's ending.
34:54
Brian: And so when you come up to tell them, hey, here's something, what they're hearing is here's ways that you failed.
35:01
Brian: They're not, they're not hearing like, hey, here's how to get back on course.
35:06
Apryl: Yeah.
35:06
Apryl: And again, like the I just wish that I would have known this stuff as a teacher because like I can think of you know, times when it's like, I think of math because that's like a very commonplace, you know, to make very simple errors, not that big of a deal.
35:21
Apryl: It's just like, hey, you added wrong here, you subtracted wrong here.
35:24
Apryl: And, you know, like we did a lot of whiteboard practice in my classroom, and I'd go around and you know, like, oh, hey, you know, fix this here or whatever.
35:33
Apryl: And I know some of my students would like put their head down and shut down, and my lack of knowledge made me think, like, oh, they're just giving up.
35:44
Apryl: And really, had I known what was going on, I could have, you know, responded in a different way.
35:52
Apryl: And definitely always, especially with these kiddos, because I think for a lot of kids, you know, it's like, oh, you know, I don't know, we can say things to certain kids and they're just gonna like fix the issue or whatever.
36:06
Apryl: But with these kids, making sure that doing this feedback in private over public is going to be a big difference too, because not only are they feeling rejected when it's done in public, now they're being rejected by all their peers too.
36:23
Apryl: Like it's just like a whole thing here.
36:27
Apryl: So make sure to do this in private, you know, just go up to their desk quietly and like, hey, look at number two, like check this right here.
36:37
Apryl: Um, and then always, always, always, which we've said this so many times, um, balance that correction with genuine positive reinforcement.
36:47
Apryl: And even if you can look at, you know, like, hey, number one looks really good.
36:51
Apryl: You did this great.
36:52
Apryl: Let's look at number two really quick.
36:53
Apryl: It looks like right here in your tens column, you may have added that wrong.
36:57
Apryl: Look at that again, right?
36:58
Apryl: And so giving some positive feedback can help with this rejection too.
37:05
Brian: Yep, yep.
37:06
Brian: And making sure that this is like, hey, we're we're making a correction so that you can do things slightly differently in the in the future.
37:14
Brian: Not having this be, hey, you did wrong, because it's so easy for them to flip that of being like you're telling me this because I'm a bad person.
37:23
Apryl: Yeah.
37:24
Brian: Yeah, that's logically that won't make sense in your head, but in their head that's the way it's going to be interpreted.
37:29
Apryl: Yeah, that's where that's what this rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria tends to turn to in their brains is I am a bad person.
37:38
Brian: Yeah, quickly quickly goes that way.
37:40
Apryl: Yes.
37:40
Apryl: I added wrong, I'm a bad person, which to us on the outside it doesn't even make sense, but that's what they're thinking.
37:47
Apryl: So keep that in mind.
37:48
Apryl: And going back with the positive, you know, reinforcement too.
37:53
Apryl: Anytime you can notice things, especially when you see like a place where meltdown could happen, and maybe they didn't melt down, like being able to say, like, hey, I love how you handled that, and just building those connections with the kids and or your kid, you know, this is teachers, but even as a parent, the more front loading we do with the positive connections, uh then when we get in these situations, it's just going to help so much more.
38:33
Brian: Yeah.
38:33
Brian: Yeah.
38:34
Brian: And the goal isn't really to remove all rejection.
38:36
Brian: The goal is to build resilience to this rejection.
38:39
Apryl: Exactly.
38:39
Brian: You can't remove rejection because they're gonna get it day after day.
38:43
Brian: They're we are all experiencing rejection our whole lives.
38:45
Brian: We just have the resilience to deal with it.
38:47
Apryl: Exactly.
38:47
Apryl: And that's what that's the goal here is to help them, like we said, be able to name it, name what's happening on the inside, you know, give it words of what they're feeling, then being able to help to co-regulate with them.
39:02
Brian: And then learning through other through other techniques, whether that's therapy or like that controlled failure we talked about.
39:08
Apryl: Yes.
39:08
Apryl: So that's that's the ways that we can help them.
39:11
Apryl: But in that moment, in that moment, the giving it a name, co-regulation, and then that's that's right in that moment, and then those little small controlled failures and planning for those tricky situations that might bring up some of these rejection situations, having doing that, building resilience, that's the way to help um our kiddos with RSD.
39:41
Apryl: So if you've ever felt helpless watching your child just melt down and crumble under their, you know, big feelings, please know that you are not alone and you're not failing.
39:55
Apryl: This is very typical.
39:58
Apryl: It's neurological.
39:59
Apryl: This is in their brain, it's very real for them, and you're not doing anything wrong.
40:04
Apryl: It's not you as a parent, it's literally wired in their brain.
40:09
Brian: Right.
40:09
Brian: A good portion of this is just recognizing it.
40:11
Brian: When you name it, when you're able to say you're experiencing this because of this rejection sensitivity, it's that much easier to recover from it, and it's that much easier for you to be able to assess this when it's I I know my child's feeling, and it's not they're just mad at me.
40:31
Apryl: Yeah.
40:32
Brian: Uh yeah, that's the beginnings to regulating it and to recovering from it.
40:35
Brian: And if you if you can do that, you can rewrite their story.
40:39
Brian: You can you can change their future outcomes.
40:42
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
40:42
Apryl: And here's the thing too, is you're not gonna get it perfect every time.
40:46
Apryl: Like sometimes in those meltdown moments, like it's hard to co-regulate.
40:50
Apryl: Cause like you don't get it.
40:53
Apryl: Like, logically, you're like, what the heck is going on here?
40:56
Apryl: Or I want you in bed, like go get in bed, right?
40:59
Apryl: So it's okay, you're not gonna get it perfect every time, but the more we recognize it, put names to it, help our kids regulate and recover from that rejection, the more resilient they're going to become.
41:14
Apryl: And here's the cool thing about our ADHD kiddos is these are the kids who grow up to be deeply empathetic adults.
41:25
Apryl: They're the ones who notice others' pain, who love fiercely, and who bring creativity and compassion into every room they walk into.
41:35
Brian: Yep.
41:35
Brian: Yeah, and we've often heard like the ADHD superpower and like these things of like how great ADHD can be.
41:42
Brian: So ADHD can have some advantages and it can have some disadvantages, and you need to recognize and work with these in order for those advantages to actually turn out.
41:53
Brian: If you want to be the, we were just talking like the entrepreneurs that just are like making business after business explode.
42:00
Brian: Oftentimes they're ADHD.
42:02
Brian: Yeah.
42:02
Brian: They're like high energy, I'm going all day long, and I make it work and I move on, I make it work, I move on.
42:08
Brian: ADHD brains can do this, but you've got to be able to regulate and you've got to be able to recognize when is ADHD working against me and how can I how can I correct for that?
42:19
Apryl: Mm-hmm.
42:19
Apryl: Yes.
42:20
Apryl: So and so this is one of the ones that is not a superpower, right?
42:24
Apryl: So this is one of the ones that can hold our kids back, though.
42:29
Apryl: Um, you know, to put themselves out there, all the things, and we want them to be able to, you know, apply for a job, apply for or go out for the football team or whatever it is.
42:41
Apryl: So helping them build resilience to be able to feel rejection, it's gonna help them to be able to use the superpowers that come with ADHD.
42:51
Brian: Yeah, and when you even with this, like when you're able to get those big emotions and turn them into something positive and you're able to to fight for your cause or whatever else, it can be an advantage.
43:02
Brian: It's just when you when you get it and it leads to shutdown, it's not an advantage.
43:07
Apryl: Yeah.
43:07
Brian: Then it's then you're you're just you're quitting because it hurts so bad.
43:12
Apryl: Yeah.
43:12
Apryl: Next time your kid or teenager melts down, just stop and and remember this episode for a minute and go, okay, we've got to stop and co-regulate.
43:23
Apryl: We're gonna put words to this and we're gonna recover from this, and it's gonna be better next time.
43:28
Apryl: So if this episode hit close to home, please share it with another ADHD parent who needs to hear it today.
43:37
Apryl: And you're not alone.
43:39
Brian: It's that easy.
43:40
Brian: You're not alone in this, or there's a whole ADHD community behind it.
43:44
Brian: You're not alone.
43:46
Apryl: This week coming up is the Hall of Play Summit.
43:48
Apryl: Um, and I am teaching a class on travel tips with kids with ADHD.
43:56
Apryl: These are tips that'll help all kids, though.
43:59
Apryl: Um, these are the tips I as I was putting my presentation together, I realized we have driven coast to coast multiple times, like north, south, east, west multiple times on road trips with our kids with ADHD.
44:12
Apryl: And I love road trips, which tells you a lot with the kids with ADHD.
44:17
Apryl: We've flown uh, you know, across the Atlantic with a kid with ADHD and did really well.
44:25
Apryl: So I'm teaching all the tips, giving away, you know, exactly what we use to make our travel simple and easy.
44:32
Apryl: So you can get your ticket at Hall of Play, H O L I P L A Y, just like holiday, Holloplaysummit.com.
44:40
Apryl: That's happening this week.
44:41
Apryl: So go get your ticket now.
44:42
Apryl: It's a free ticket.
44:43
Apryl: All right, we'll see you next week.
44:45
Apryl: Same time, same place.
44:47
Brian: See ya.
44:47
Brian: Thanks so much for joining us for today's conversation on raising ADHD.
44:51
Brian: Remember, raising ADHD kids doesn't have to feel overwhelming.
44:55
Brian: Small shifts can make a big difference.
44:57
Brian: If you found this episode helpful, it would mean the world if you would hit subscribe, if you would leave a review, or if you shared it with another parent or teacher who needs this support.
45:06
Brian: And don't forget to join us next week for more real talk, practical tips, and encouragement.
45:11
Brian: Until then, you've got this and we've got your back.