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When Your Child Has No School Friends [R] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I hate school, don't want to do it anymore. I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: don't like it. I've got no friends, no one's nice
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to me. Doesn't make sense. I want to stay home.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: School anxiety, school refusal or emotion based school avoidance. So
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: many families are struggling with it. The numbers are rising
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: as they have been for the last couple of years.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Today on the Happy Families podcast, what to Do when
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: your child doesn't want to go to School? Hello and welcome.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We're so glad to have you. Along with the Happy
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Families podcast Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Colson, and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the pod we answer your tricky questions.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: They don't come much trickier than this one. If you'd
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: like to submit a tricky question, we've got a super
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: simple system at Happyfamilies dot com dot Au. Just scroll
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: down to podcasts, click the record button and start talking.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: You can send us a voice memo, or you do
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: is open up the voice record app on your phone,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: talk to that and then send it to podcasts with
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: an s Podcasts at Happyfamilies dot com dot Au. Kylie,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: here's today's message.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I'm using AI as I'd like to remain anonymous and
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: not have my voice on the podcast. Our eleven years
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: old is so anxious about going to school as she
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  Speaker 2: has no friends. She's cried so many times the last
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: two weeks over having to attend school and is flat
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: out refusing to go. She doesn't do any extra curricular activities,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: hate sports. We've tried multiple things, and she doesn't last
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: past a few lessons if she doesn't find someone she
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: measures with, or if she doesn't like the coach or teacher.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: We also don't have the spare funds at the moment,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: even if she wanted to do anything. We aren't religious,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: so any sort of youth group is out too. Her
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: social anxiety is through therth. She refuses to do any
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: new activities, so this makes it hard to introduce her
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: to new things. I'm just at such a loss as
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: to how to help her, short of intensive therapy, which
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: again we can't afford. Anyway in which I feel we
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: can help her involve spending stupid amounts of money. How
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: do you get your child help when funds are minimal
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: or none.
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  Speaker 3: This is so tricky for parents across the country. Across
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: the world. We struggle seeing our kids challenged, and we
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: struggle seeing them in a hard place, so hard, and
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: the friendship challenges that our children experience especially tug at
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: the heart strings because I think all of us, at
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: some point in our lives have experienced that feeling of loneliness,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: that feeling of being isolated or excluded, and we don't
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: want our kids to experience that.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Data shows that loneliness is increasing, and you know who's
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: most affected by it, our youngest people. Like it's the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: most hyper connect hyper connected time in the history of
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the world, and yet so many kids are feeling so
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: so lonely. We've been there, We've experienced the whole school refusal,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: school avoidance, emotion based school avoidance is the technical term
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: for it. It's so hard. There's another element to this
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in addition to the heartbreak, and that is having a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: lack of resources and thinking, if we had some more money,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: maybe we could try this, Maybe we could take them there,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: maybe we could have this assessment done. Maybe we could.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And because of the cost of living challenges that so
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: many people, almost everybody struggling with right now, it just
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: adds another layer of complexity and a layer of feeling helpless,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: feeling like you're out of control. So for our anonymous
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: listener who has sent this through, we feel your pain.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: We have some suggestions and some ideas that could be helpful. Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: I've got a couple of things. I know you've got
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: a couple of things. Why don't you kick it off first,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and then I'll add some ideas around that.
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  Speaker 3: I think the harsh reality for all of us, whether
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  Speaker 3: we are eleven, twenty two or in our fifties, friends
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: don't usually land in our lap. No, they actually require
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  Speaker 3: a whole heap of intention and time.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should highlight here we don't know what
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: has happened in this family, Like there might be a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: lot of time, effort, and intention going into building friendships
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  Speaker 1: and it's just not working. We don't know, but they
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  Speaker 1: do take work. You can't just have a friendship land
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  Speaker 1: in your lap.
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  Speaker 3: And research which support that it takes more than two
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  Speaker 3: hundred hours of intentional time. It's not we're hanging out
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  Speaker 3: in class together, or we're in a group with fifteen
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  Speaker 3: other kids. It's two hundred hours of personal interaction with
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  Speaker 3: somebody before you would consider them a close friend.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like you've taken my job as the doctor.
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  Speaker 1: You're talking about the science. The research that you're referring
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  Speaker 1: to is something that you and I have talked about
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  Speaker 1: a number of times. Because adult friendships are tricky as well.
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  Speaker 1: And there was a there's a university professor at the
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: University of Kansas. His name's Jeffrey Hall, and he published
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: a report a couple of years ago now that showed
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  Speaker 1: that it takes roughly fifty hours of time together to
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  Speaker 1: move from being a mere acquaintance to a casual friend.
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  Speaker 1: Fifty hours to say, oh, yeah, we're friends. But it
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  Speaker 1: takes to go from that basic friend status to being
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  Speaker 1: a genuine close friend, like you said, two hundred hours.
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  Speaker 1: And that's not two hundred hours of sitting next to
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  Speaker 1: summoning class. That's two hundred hours of intentional activity and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: side by side time time face to face, side by side,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: going camping, or you're spending time on the weekend having
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a picnic or playing in the park or whatever. Like
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  Speaker 1: it's genuine time together building your relationship, not just being
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: near each other.
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  Speaker 3: So when you look at the friendships that are flourishing
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  Speaker 3: in the school playground, I would suggest nine times out
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  Speaker 3: of ten those friendships exist outside of the playground. Well,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: they're being fostered by families who are coming together on
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the weekends after school for play dates, and they're actually
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  Speaker 3: spending intentional time together outside of the flurry and activity
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: of the school, classroom and playground. So I know that
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: it sounds like this all lands in mum's lap. It
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: kind of does. That's the sucky thing about this.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: It actually does, especially if you've have a child who's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: really struggling to make it work without that parental invention.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: It's just too hard. You've got to get kids into
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  Speaker 1: your backyard or into your living room or at the
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  Speaker 1: park down the street with some parents supervising and being
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: around while the kids play.
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  Speaker 3: But the amazing part of this acknowledgment is it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: cost a cent. It doesn't cost a cent to be
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  Speaker 3: intentional about making opportunities for your children to have experiences
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  Speaker 3: with other kids.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get really concrete about it. What specific things
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: can parents do in that situation. You've done this a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: lot more than me. What have you done?
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  Speaker 3: So? I would suggest that your child has a handful
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  Speaker 3: of kids that they would love to be friends with
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  Speaker 3: they usually.
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  Speaker 1: Do, and that they may have some level of acquaintance.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: But if they can't give you any clarity talking to
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  Speaker 3: the classroom teacher about the children that she spends time
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  Speaker 3: with in the classroom or the children that they feel
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  Speaker 3: she's more suited towards. Because sometimes we're inclined to want
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: to go to the popular kids because they're larger than
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  Speaker 3: life and that's where we see the party at. But
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  Speaker 3: the reality is they're not our people. We don't fit
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: into that space. But there are other kids over here
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  Speaker 3: that we've missed because there's so much flurry over here.
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  Speaker 1: I want to put an exclamation mark on what you've
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  Speaker 1: just said there. We do need to get to the break.
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  Speaker 1: But this is so important. Having watched our six daughters
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  Speaker 1: go through various iterations of school over the last twenty
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  Speaker 1: years or thereabouts, there are so many kids who's sit
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  Speaker 1: in class and who are at a practical level. They're
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: almost invisible because they're not the popular kids, and they're
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  Speaker 1: also not the unpopular kids. They're just kids who are
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  Speaker 1: in class who people almost don't notice. They're everywhere. There
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  Speaker 1: are so many of them. This little girl may be
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  Speaker 1: one of those kids. Finding another one or two kids
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  Speaker 1: like that could be the answer, because they don't need
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  Speaker 1: heaps of friends, no, just one.
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  Speaker 3: And so once you've got an idea of the children
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  Speaker 3: that your child would be best suited with, then the
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  Speaker 3: next step is reaching out to the parents. So it
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  Speaker 3: may be just as easy as sending a little note
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  Speaker 3: off to the teacher with some invites for a couple
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  Speaker 3: of friends and inviting them over for afternoon tea.
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  Speaker 1: Or do what we've done and say here's our email address,
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  Speaker 1: here's our phone number. Can you just give this out
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  Speaker 1: to all the parents, because there's obviously privacy laws and
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  Speaker 1: we can't ask for theirs, And you literally just include
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  Speaker 1: a note and say, I've got a girl in the
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  Speaker 1: class who really would like to be friend with your kids.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: We thought we might do a little play date. Would
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: you be up for it? If your child would be
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  Speaker 1: happy to do it, can we please play?
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  Speaker 3: And one of the other things that I really love doing,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: especially in the holidays, creating a little craft day or
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  Speaker 3: something the kids really enjoyed having a handful of friends
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  Speaker 3: over and doing some kind of structured activity. Because for
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  Speaker 3: new kids coming together, they actually need some structure around
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  Speaker 3: their friendship.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be the whole time, but if
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  Speaker 1: they get together and do an hour of craft and
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  Speaker 1: then they have another hour of playtime, it ticks every box.
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  Speaker 3: So we've done lots of different things over the years.
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  Speaker 3: We've had little cooking classes where the kids have been
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  Speaker 3: able to bake some cookies and then decorate them once
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  Speaker 3: they've cooled down, which gives them time in between to
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  Speaker 3: have some play date. We've done painting days. We've just
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: had a pool, you know, hangout and they've played a
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  Speaker 3: whole heap of games in the pool. And we've also
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  Speaker 3: done Easter days or you know, things like that where
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: you can actually kind of theme it and yeah, tie.
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  Speaker 1: A calendary calendar date or something like that after the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: break a handful of other ideas that my work. If
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: those things aren't quite resonating for you on the Happy
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Families podcast, Okay, Kylie, my response to this is a
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: little bit different to yours. You've taken the approach, let's
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: see if we can build friendships. Maybe we've tried before,
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  Speaker 1: but if we go with these angles, we might be
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: able to get some kids over or spend some time
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  Speaker 1: at the local park, but we can get the kids
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  Speaker 1: face to face, side by side, doing activities, building the relationship,
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  Speaker 1: maybe something could work. My approach is slightly different. The
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: first thing that I'm going to suggest is to the
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: degree that you can, recognizing that funds are limited, I
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: think that it's worth going in getting things checked out medically.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: When a child is struggling that much, it's worth just
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: checking is there anything going on with neurodivergent challenges? Is
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: there anything happening from a psychological point of view that
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: we're not aware of? Getting in to see the GP
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and just exploring that initially can give you some direction.
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  Speaker 1: The second thing that I want to emphasize is just
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  Speaker 1: how how important this thing called school belonging is and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: working with the school on it. What do I mean
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  Speaker 1: by this, Well, there are two relationships that really matter
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: at school. The first one and I've talked about this
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: in the podcast quite a lot as school has commenced
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: this year, but I'm going to emphasize it again real quick.
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  Speaker 1: The first one is there one kid at school who
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  Speaker 1: when your child enters the school gates sees them and says, hey,
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  Speaker 1: come sit with us. That's what it means to belong
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  Speaker 1: And working with the teacher with that specific goal in mind,
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  Speaker 1: or the school guidance counselor or the school chaplain, whatever,
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  Speaker 1: that welfare person is, that wellbeing person is in the
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  Speaker 1: school working with them to identify one child who is
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: open to taking on the responsibility and finding the joy
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: in seeing your child and saying, hey, come sit with us.
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  Speaker 1: Children who have that are happy to be at school.
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  Speaker 1: They look forward to being at school because they know
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that they're being noticed, they know that they belong. But
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  Speaker 1: they also need one other thing in terms of relationship,
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  Speaker 1: and that is an adult who notices them, who calls
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: them by name, and who was able to have a
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: quick chat with them about something that's going on in
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: their life. It might be something in the classroom. It
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: could be the cross country the other day? How'd you go?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: It might be Hey, I heard that this thing's happening,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and I know you're interested in it. Are you're going
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: to try out for? It doesn't really matter so long
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: as there's an adult, usually the school teacher, who says, hey, Kylie,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it's so good to see ye. Hey, what happened the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: other day with that audition you were trying out for?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Or how did you go the other day at the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: swimming carnival? I know that was something that you were
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: really really hoping to do well in I didn't get
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to see your races. That interaction with an adult combined
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: with a child who says, hey, come sit with us.
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  Speaker 1: What a difference that makes. So I'd be working with
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the school directly and asking what can we do to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: support my child to build these two relationships. The last
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: thing I'm going to mention is the importance of third spaces.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So you've got home, you've got school, and this is
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: where that whole question of money comes in. We've tried
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: extra correcter activities, but she won't do them. We've tried
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: extracurrecter activities. I can't even say the word anymore, but
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: we don't have any money anymore. In our experience, our children,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: when they do extracurricular activities, they don't tend to say, oh,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I've got friends and I want to spend more like
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: two hundred hours with them. They just do that activity
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and that's often all there is. So finding a third space,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: which is usually going to be the neighborhood, or maybe
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the park down the road, or if you live near
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the beach, it could be that finding a place where
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the kids can hang out with other kids and enjoy
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: each other. The third space is so valuable.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: You mentioned a couple of weeks ago about a guy
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: that you had been listening to in your feed who
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: suggested that when his kids came home from school, he
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: wasn't concerned about whether or not they spent time with
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: other peers. He actually wanted to foster relationships with other adults,
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: people that they could glean from and learn from. They
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: could have mature conversations.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Where mentors and models.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so in this situation, maybe there's a grandparent,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: maybe there's an auntie that maybe there's a friend down
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: the road who has a little bit of extra time
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: on their hands that they could spend with your daughter
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: as well. I know that sometimes that seems a little
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: bit left field, But for me growing up, the people
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: that I loved spending time with most were the people
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: who lit up when they saw me walk into the room.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I want to because you had some friends, but not
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: heaps of friends, But you used to spend a whole
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: lot of time with Donna, who lived two doors down,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and you spend a whole lot of time with Jill,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: who was the mum of one of your friends, And
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: they were really your best friends. Right, that's who you
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: look forward to hanging out with after school, and.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Because like I said, they lit up when when our
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: kids were a little bit younger, they had a piano teacher, Carol,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: and as soon as she walked in to the room,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: no matter what we were doing, her whole face like
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: she's her whole face Sean into my house and she
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: just elevated us because we felt like we were literally
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: the most important people in her world in that moment.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of a lot of content, a lot
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: of answers that we've given here, building friendships, bringing adults
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: in as friends, creating space as third spaces for kids
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to develop those relationships, checking out additional needs, looking at school, belonging,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and the one that we haven't mentioned, it's just more
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: time with family so valuable because that's the relationship that
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: matters more than any other. It is a tricky question.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: We definitely can't be comprehensive in the time that we've gotten.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: We will have to wrap it up there because we've
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: gone well over time. But we hope that that's been
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a useful suggestion for people who are struggling with school
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: refusal around relationship issues. If you'd like to submit a
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: tricky question, please send us a voice memo to podcasts
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au, or visit us
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au to submit your
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: questions there. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Roland from Bridge Media. More information and more resources are
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: available at happy families dot com dot au