Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Balancing a full time career with your business. With Ade Tokan

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Balancing a full time career with your business. With Ade Tokan · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Is knowing that you don't have to do this journey alone.
• 0:02
  And what I mean by that is that there's so much resource out there, you know, like a podcast, different podcasts online as well.
• 0:08
  Too much resource out there.
• 0:09
  When you come in a wedding professional, people that have come before you that have actually spoken about their journey and I wish I tapped into that a lot earlier.
• 0:56
  I'm Becca Poundney, wedding business marketing expert, strategist, speaker and author.
• 1:02
  Over the last decade, I've combined my love of marketing with my knowledge of the wedding industry to help thousands of wedding pros and venues just like you learn new skills, strategize, get re energized and grow their businesses.
• 1:14
  Because after all, that's how you stay top of your game.
• 1:17
  Whether you're brand new into this industry or been here forever.
• 1:20
  I want to help.
• 1:21
  So grab a cup of tea or a cocktail, sit back and enjoy a brand new episode of my award winning podcast, Wedding Pros who are Ready to grow.
• 1:29
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 1:35
  Today I'm chatting with RJ Token, wedding MC and celebrant.
• 1:38
  Based in London but working worldwide alongside his business.
• 1:41
  Ade is still working full time as a management consultant.
• 1:44
  So he knows what it's like to juggle it all.
• 1:47
  Today I'm going to find out more about his journey and get real about what it's like to run a business alongside a full time job.
• 1:53
  Ade, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:55
  Hi Becca.
• 1:55
  Hello.
• 1:56
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:57
  It's an absolute pleasure.
• 1:58
  Thank you for being here.
• 2:00
  Now I want to find out for my listeners a little bit more about you.
• 2:04
  So I like to take people back before you were in the wedding industry.
• 2:07
  Talk us through briefly your career history and at what point when weddings entered the picture.
• 2:13
  Yeah, okay.
• 2:15
  I think I might go all the way back to like university because I think that's where the foundations actually secondary school, where the foundation actually came from.
• 2:22
  So I went to boarding school for secondary school and I created this thing called the Boarding House production.
• 2:28
  So essentially at the end of every year, all the boarding house students will present to a show for the day.
• 2:33
  Students.
• 2:34
  And then I was a host essentially for those, for those sort of events.
• 2:37
  And we did that three times while I was there.
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  So carried on for a bit when I left and then going into university I just hosted like the society dinners, my friends graduation dinners and then and you know, 21st birthdays and all that sort of stuff then.
• 2:53
  So those are the foundation blocks I was building there.
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  But I didn't think of anything.
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  I didn't even charge, I just did it because I just loved, you know, being holding a mic and entertaining people really.
• 3:03
  And then obviously I went in after investing into a full time job as a management consultant, I ran a nightclub about five years before COVID So I've always been involved, I've always loved entertainment essentially.
• 3:13
  And then one glorious day during COVID one of my friends had a, it was 30 at the time and then he had a garden sip and paint party.
• 3:20
  And then some of our other friends were there, were getting married in Athens and they are, what do you think about just facing our wedding?
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  And I was like, oh, are you sure?
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  Because his wife was a big West End actor.
• 3:30
  She's done Tina, she's done six, done all the big western shows.
• 3:33
  Like are you sure?
• 3:33
  Ask your wife first because you know, she's a big entertainer, I don't want to ruin it for her.
• 3:36
  She was like, yeah, we trust you can do it, blah blah, blah.
• 3:38
  And then, you know, got it to Athens, did my first wedding MC there.
• 3:44
  And then after that people asked for my, for my business card and my, my, my details.
• 3:47
  I was like, what?
• 3:48
  I was like, I'm just here to have fun.
• 3:49
  And then luckily for me in Athens and the venue, another, there was another wedding across the road or in the same vicinity.
• 3:55
  And I brought the DJ with me.
• 3:57
  So he knew the MC there.
• 3:58
  He was like, yeah, you know, there's MC there.
• 3:59
  They pay, they pay this amount.
• 4:00
  I was like, oh, they pay for this.
• 4:02
  I was like, wow.
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  And then I just started asking all my friends, you know, can I, can I see your wedding?
• 4:08
  And this is like it's been five years ago in September, November this year.
• 4:11
  So, so I'll be having like a mini celebration just to reflect on how far I've come.
• 4:16
  So that's my come up story into, into the wedding industry.
• 4:20
  It was an accidental entry really into this industry.
• 4:23
  You never thought, one day I'm going to start this MC business.
• 4:26
  You accidentally ended up at a wedding in Athens which most people would dream about being booked at.
• 4:31
  And that was your first one.
• 4:32
  Yeah, yeah.
• 4:33
  It was just, it was just by chance because again, because like I'm Nigerian British, so in a Nigerian house, not to be stereotypical, but you can't really say you're going to become an MC while you're going to university
• 4:44
  or at a young age or.
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  And it's a crazy thing to think about because in the Nigerian community weddings are a big deal.
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  We do some of the biggest weddings in the world and such a big economy, and you need supplies to serve that economy.
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  But parents are not thinking about that.
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  They don't want their kids to become MCs or even videographers or photographers.
• 5:00
  It's not something you talk about, African household.
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  So it's nothing I haven't thought about or thought it could be a career or something that I do.
• 5:06
  But I love it so much.
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  It just comes off me naturally.
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  And I've just been, you know, been such a great position.
• 5:13
  I know you said it's a lot.
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  This is the best industry to be in because you celebrate people.
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  And, you know, I'm glad I found it by accident.
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  And I thank the couple every single time they actually find it.
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  They're actually my neighbors.
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  They don't look far from me.
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  So anytime I see them, I'm like, thank you, guys.
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  And they're like, listen up.
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  Like, you don't know what you've done for me.
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  When you find your purpose that you love just makes it makes life a lot easier and better.
• 5:29
  Yeah, absolutely.
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  And what's amazing as well is that, you know, sometimes we do the thing we love for free, like you said, even if it's at school or, you know, for friends.
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  And we.
• 5:38
  We kind of don't realize that we can get paid to do something that we love.
• 5:41
  So that must have been a big moment for you.
• 5:43
  So talk me through your first paid wedding.
• 5:45
  So my first paid win?
• 5:46
  That's a good question.
• 5:47
  So that was.
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  So this wedding I spoke about was in September, five years ago.
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  My first paid wedding was in November.
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  So once I figured out that this could be a paid gig, and I believe the MC at the time got £750, if I remember correctly.
• 6:01
  And then obviously I looked at my network.
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  Who's a planner?
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  I knew a friend, she was a planner.
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  I told her, I really want to do this.
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  I don't know what to do.
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  Give me some advice.
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  You have to just kind of figure to make it, show some stuff online.
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  And I was like, just get me involved.
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  And then she just messaged me one day saying, I have something for you.
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  I was like, where?
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  It's like Chelmsford, but £50.
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  I'm like, I'll do it.
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  I'll do it.
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  I'll just.
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  Just.
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  I just want to be in the room.
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  I don't mean the room.
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  I was like, yeah.
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  When they did my first wedding, I had a.
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  I had some clips from there.
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  It wasn't, you know, wasn't the kind of ones I do now.
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  You know, I'm not trying to down anyone's wedding, but, you know, it's all the kind of wedding I do now.
• 6:34
  So I got the clips there and then sent to another friend, you know, I knew that their cousin was getting married.
• 6:38
  I do this, you know, and then just goes on and on and on like.
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  So my first one is just by a lot of a planner who just was a friend who took a chance on me.
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  And, you know, I'm very thankful for that opportunity.
• 6:48
  And my fifth anniversary, I'm going to actually give a shout out to everyone who actually supported because this industry is tough, especially when you start out because wedding.
• 6:58
  Again, let's just break it down.
• 6:59
  Weddings are like the biggest investment or the biggest day for most people's lives is a big.
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  I mean, when I got married, the best day of my life, you know, hands down.
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  And everyone I love was around me, you know, and you don't get that anytime.
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  So it's high.
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  Is high.
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  It's high pressure, high risk.
• 7:13
  You don't want to try out somebody that is new, they've never done before.
• 7:17
  So I do get it.
• 7:18
  But at the same time, you need to find, well, getting in the room and putting what you've got, what you can do, and then hopefully leveraging that to get the next one.
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  And I've just been doing that all the way through.
• 7:27
  Leveraging that to get the next one, to get the next one, to get the next one.
• 7:29
  And what you do is unique.
• 7:31
  So I think we need to talk about that because we've chatted offline before about what you do.
• 7:36
  It's very different.
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  And I think sometimes people hear MC and they think, I don't really understand what that means and why would I have that at my wedding?
• 7:44
  So just walk us through what wedding looks like when you're involved.
• 7:48
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:50
  So yeah, when we have emcees, they think just making announcements or they think toastmaster, you know, the two typical things they think about.
• 7:58
  But it's way more than that.
• 7:59
  And you know, I'm fortunate because my wife, she's a.
• 8:02
  She's a writer for theater, so she has a few plays and I actually produce some of the plays for her.
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  So I've seen the, the impact of like light and sound stage and all that sort of stuff, how it affects how people receive entertainment.
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  So I, I approach things from how are the guests going to receive entertainment?
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  So I don't only like, come and announce the program.
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  I actually developed a program with, with.
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  With the bride and groom.
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  And it scales up from like small Budgets to big budgets.
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  So talking about.
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  So like for example, a big budget.
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  When I did in Villa Babbiano in.
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  In Lake Como, they had a big budget.
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  So they.
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  We designed everything from the lights, the sound.
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  I was not.
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  Not by myself.
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  I brought a team together.
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  The light, the sound, the entertainment.
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  So, for example, we played a game called table karaoke.
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  And essentially we did like an X Factor kind of style where the bride, the groom, the best man, and chief bridesmaid were the judges, essentially.
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  And we had six tables competing against each other.
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  And we knew that in terms of want to compete, so we created.
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  We had lights on every single table.
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  So when the table sang their song, all the lights would dim around the room.
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  And then it was only on them, focusing on them.
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  And there was a live band as well playing with them as well.
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  So it was just like you were in a X factor, big bridge, got talent kind of show.
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  That's kind of stuff I do.
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  So my aim is to turn your wedding into a game show.
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  And it can be from any budget you have.
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  So smaller budgets.
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  For example.
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  What I do is I call it the wedding game show.
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  And we do three rounds of competition for smaller weddings.
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  So every table is a team.
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  Every.
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  Every.
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  Every table has a team leader, a team name, and a team winning song.
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  And they're three rounds of competition.
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  So the first one could be like a quiz about the couple, how old you and couple digital quiz.
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  So everyone locks in their number.
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  I'm sorry, locks in their names, locks in the players there.
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  And then they all compete against each other.
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  Lives on a digital platform.
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  Second competition is the couples who send 20 of the favorite songs to the DJ.
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  And I put on two tapes against each other.
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  There's a buzzer in the middle.
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  DJ starts playing the song.
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  Then you hit the buzzer.
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  So he has to finish the lyrics, gets the song, and gets the artist's name and get a point each time.
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  So that's another round of games.
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  Then the third round is one of my favorites.
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  And I then ask all the teams to say five things about the couple.
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  They all say different things.
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  Oh, they're lovely.
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  They get to say it as well.
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  And it's also a good way for guests to talk, to say something about the couple because they might get to have a speech.
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  And I tell them to turn three of those things into a rap, a song or poem and perform it for the couple.
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  And they pick top three and then score up the whole.
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  The whole tally, tally, chart.
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  And then the top team wins, like a gimmicky Medal with the couple's logo on it.
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  And it's just something very, very nice and usually wear all through the after party and get that bragging right for the evening.
• 10:19
  So that's kind of vibe I do as an empty.
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  So I design the, the actual wedding reception to be like a game show.
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  And also think about how will the guests receive the entertainment.
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  Not only just taking the program and just making the announcement, actually designed it based on what the couple like and what the guests are like as well.
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  And what's the benefit to the couples?
• 10:39
  Like, why would they want you there on your day?
• 10:41
  Because they might be thinking, right, you know, standard wedding supplier, I need my photographer, I need my florist, I need my cake maker.
• 10:47
  They may not be thinking, I need someone to come and run a game show at my wedding.
• 10:50
  So, like, talk us through why you think more couples should be doing this kind of thing.
• 10:55
  Like, what benefit does it bring?
• 10:57
  What do you bring to the table?
• 10:59
  Yeah, that's a very good question.
• 11:00
  So if we think about it, just breaking it down a little bit.
• 11:05
  So there are a lot of weddings are expensive for both couples and their guests, especially those people that do destination weddings.
• 11:11
  You know, people are flying out, booking a hotel, spending money on different things to be at your wedding.
• 11:17
  So as a couple, you take away the photographer, you take away the pictures, rather the video and, you know, the memories as well for your guests, the only thing they really take about is the experience.
• 11:27
  That's the only thing they really take when they go back home.
• 11:30
  And, you know, guest experience is a big thing because people spend a lot of money.
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  So this is a great way to get them, you know, engaged and entertained.
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  And also what I do as well, because a lot of guests don't know each other already.
• 11:41
  Or once you're playing games at the table during reception or maybe during the welcome parts.
• 11:45
  Because I do work on parties as well.
• 11:46
  You know, some people call it rehearsal dinners.
• 11:49
  I do that as well.
• 11:50
  Once we get them engaging and interacting it whole, it helps to build the after party later on anyway, so you're getting guests who now kind of know each other.
• 11:58
  They already have a team name they're going by throughout the whole night.
• 12:01
  There's already banter, there's very people interacting, people are more relaxed and they can actually enjoy the rest of the evening properly.
• 12:07
  So a lot of times, you know, DJs benefit from the experience of me getting involved from the beginning and creating that interactive entertainment throughout the reception.
• 12:17
  And also for the pictures and the videos, you get better quality pictures and videos, because I do a lot of weddings where I have videographs of photographs that don't typically have this kind of my style of empty, like,
• 12:28
  oh, my gosh, I've never seen anything like this.
• 12:29
  You know, we have so much videos.
• 12:31
  There's so much going on.
• 12:32
  And that's what they want from a content creator, from a videographer, photographer.
• 12:36
  They want to.
• 12:36
  They want those candid moments that people are interacting with, that, you know, those smiles, those interactions they don't get when you don't have that kind of entertainment.
• 12:43
  So to summarize, it's all about the guest experience.
• 12:45
  If you're thinking about your guest experience, bring me, get me involved.
• 12:48
  And also not to sell myself too much.
• 12:51
  I'm cheaper than a live band and, you know, or some of these entertainment.
• 12:54
  I'm one man, but I can make the room feel.
• 12:57
  I get everyone involved.
• 12:58
  I make the guest the entertainment.
• 12:59
  And that's the best way to get everyone involved.
• 13:00
  So cheaper than the typical big entertainment anyway.
• 13:04
  And we're living in what I call the experience era, right?
• 13:07
  Experience is really important, not only for the couple, but for the guests.
• 13:10
  And we've all been at weddings which have had a really poor guest experience where you're kind of hanging around, stood around, awkwardly sitting with people at a table that you don't really know.
• 13:19
  And actually, these little ways of being creative and what you do is very unique.
• 13:24
  You're right.
• 13:25
  It can completely transform the experience, even on a small scale.
• 13:27
  I went to a wedding years ago where my friend just decided to do a quiz that she just did herself about the bride and groom on the tables.
• 13:35
  And even that, which was a tiny little thing, got us all excited on the table because we all wanted to win, right?
• 13:40
  We were competitive.
• 13:41
  We want to fill in this quiz and we want to hand it in because we want to get the prize of whatever it was, a bottle of wine.
• 13:46
  And, you know, it's.
• 13:48
  It does shift everything.
• 13:49
  And I think often the couple are thinking so much about their experience, but actually there is 50, 100, 150, 200 or more people.
• 13:59
  And their experience is also what's going to make that day memorable.
• 14:02
  Absolutely, Absolutely.
• 14:03
  Absolutely that.
• 14:04
  Now you've had a lot of press coverage because this is a very unique experience.
• 14:08
  And when I was looking through your list of credits for press, you've got press that most people would dream about and are probably never going to have.
• 14:14
  The things that.
• 14:15
  So some places that you've been saying you've been in Vogue weddings, you've been in the New York Times you've been in more places than that that you would.
• 14:22
  You were just telling me about.
• 14:24
  But you also got mentioned at WED Pros Live.
• 14:26
  Now, you weren't at WED Pros Live, but one of my speakers, Megan Ealy, was on stage and she is one of the top wedding PR people in the world.
• 14:35
  And she actually used your business as an example in her presentation, which just shows the kind of coverage what you're doing is getting.
• 14:42
  But people are gonna be asking, well, how.
• 14:44
  How did he get these opportunities?
• 14:45
  Because we only dream about being in Vogue weddings.
• 14:47
  That doesn't.
• 14:49
  So how did those opportunities come about?
• 14:51
  Yeah, to be honest, I'll say some of it is a bit of luck and some of it is a bit of like being intentional as well.
• 14:58
  So I was fortunate to know what I brought to the table.
• 15:04
  I knew the kind of clients I wanted to have from when I started off.
• 15:09
  I knew where I wanted to be.
• 15:10
  So I was willing to play the game and just get some stuff under my belt.
• 15:15
  But then strategically approaching the right people or the right planners and you know, trying to get in the room where it happens, essentially.
• 15:23
  So a lot of things, I do have very high end and luxury weddings and so naturally they would be featured on a lot of these platforms.
• 15:31
  And then people pick up my name and seeing a bit of consistency of me being, being in those, in those spaces, then that's, that was the lucky part because, you know, I was getting those right weddings through and
• 15:41
  also I was delivering something unique as well.
• 15:43
  And you know, not a lot of people can do what I do.
• 15:46
  So and I was bringing my background from, you know, being running a nightclub.
• 15:50
  So I turned into a party, my wife being in theater bring all those elements of lighting, sound, you know, my stage.
• 15:56
  So one thing I do as well, I know check out the floor plan.
• 15:59
  And then my wife told me that, you know, where you, where you're positioned on stage matters as well, how guests receive you.
• 16:04
  So I do all those planning all those behind the scenes so I could see those fruits come in and you know, people can actually see the difference in how I deliver.
• 16:10
  So that was like the lucky side of things then the strategic side of things.
• 16:12
  But then I realized that, you know what, I have a lot I'm doing.
• 16:16
  More people need to hear about this outside, you know, my immediate circle, which is a big circle.
• 16:20
  But I wanted to.
• 16:21
  There are those ways around the world.
• 16:22
  I can do this anywhere in the world, essentially.
• 16:23
  So I approached Megan, as you, as you mentioned, a few people actually I checked for wedding PR agents.
• 16:31
  And then.
• 16:32
  And then she came up and other other wedding PR agents came up as well.
• 16:35
  And I approached about, I think four or five.
• 16:38
  And she was the only one that understood.
• 16:39
  She didn't fully understand what I did, which was excited about it.
• 16:43
  She was like, people need to hear about this.
• 16:44
  And I just really appreciated that all the other PR ages didn't really get it, and they were not willing to really engage me that way.
• 16:52
  And luckily for me, again, a bit of luck here.
• 16:54
  So the first consultation I had with her, just to understand my business, understand what I'm trying to do and what she can do for me.
• 17:00
  New York Times had approached her and said that they're looking for.
• 17:04
  To write something to write about game shows, 10 weddings, game shows.
• 17:07
  Like, oh, my gosh, this is for you.
• 17:09
  You need to pitch this to them.
• 17:10
  This is my first meeting with her.
• 17:12
  And then I was like, wow, she's really working for money here.
• 17:14
  And then.
• 17:15
  And then I just wrote the pitch to New York Times, and they absolutely loved it.
• 17:19
  They loved it.
• 17:19
  So they featured a.
• 17:20
  I did a Korean wedding in New York.
• 17:22
  Lucky was New York as well.
• 17:23
  So they interviewed the couple and spoke about the experience, interviewed me, and I just like, wow, this is.
• 17:28
  This, is, this, is this absolutely crazy.
• 17:31
  Then it got featured, I think I wrote in December, got it came out in, like, late January or February.
• 17:35
  And then it just blew up completely.
• 17:37
  You know, friends and family calling me, oh, my gosh, I knew your plan.
• 17:41
  And then, you know, and then just.
• 17:42
  It just happens that way.
• 17:43
  So a bit of luck and then a bit of strategy as well.
• 17:45
  Because again, and it's for any wedding pro.
• 17:48
  Listen here.
• 17:48
  You know, whatever you would ever do, whatever you do, find the unique side of things in there or create that uniqueness for the bride and groom or for the couple.
• 17:56
  And then, you know, find a way of selling that to anywhere, anyone else that could actually put you on a platform.
• 18:01
  Because again, like you said before we spoke, you know, there are different stories everywhere.
• 18:05
  This is how you craft that story and make it unique and make it interest for someone else to listen to.
• 18:10
  So that's my.
• 18:10
  That's my.
• 18:11
  That's my journey into being on different.
• 18:13
  Platforms, I think as well.
• 18:14
  I always find it really fascinating thing to think about this intersection between luck and strategy, because often other people will look at you and go, yeah, you just got lucky.
• 18:24
  But there's always people who get lucky always put themselves out there as well.
• 18:28
  So there.
• 18:29
  It's not entirely luck.
• 18:30
  There is strategy behind it.
• 18:31
  You know, you.
• 18:32
  You were proactively looking to work with people in the wedding industry.
• 18:35
  You're proactively networking, you're proactively putting yourself in the right rooms and in the right spaces and talking to the right people and all of those things combine.
• 18:43
  It's not that you just sat home one day and the New York Times just luckily happened to come across you and ring you.
• 18:48
  And I think often, often people look at it and think, yeah, it's just luck.
• 18:52
  But actually, I think any lucky person quite often has a huge amount of effort and strategy and things they've tried that haven't worked.
• 19:00
  Right.
• 19:01
  You know, we, we can knock on all the doors and yes, one might open, but there might be 15 that didn't open.
• 19:06
  But it's worth carrying on knocking.
• 19:08
  All you need is one.
• 19:09
  And you know, I keep saying, you know, say to people, let's keep shooting that ball, to just keep shooting and then you're going to miss something, that someone's going to get to the goal and then just build from
• 19:17
  there.
• 19:17
  So you're absolutely right.
• 19:18
  You have to just keep trying different things.
• 19:19
  Even now, I'm still, I'm hustling like, I don't have any weddings next year.
• 19:23
  I'm doing 50 weddings this year and I'm hustling like it's not.
• 19:27
  I want to keep going because in this industry as well, new people come in, the new stuff, the new trend comes in and you get phased out.
• 19:33
  You have to be relevant and you have to keep coming up with new ideas.
• 19:36
  I have not a team, but I have people like consult my wedding games.
• 19:39
  Like, what is the next wedding game?
• 19:40
  I should be, you know, I had this consultation now what is the next I'm bringing out next year.
• 19:45
  You have to stay on top of the game every single time because this industry is brutal.
• 19:48
  You can be booked up one year and in two years time no one knows who you are again because a new set of people are coming in, a new generation is coming in.
• 19:54
  So you have to be on top of your game every single time.
• 19:57
  So, yeah, yeah, it's absolutely constant.
• 19:59
  And that's one of the unique things about our industry is that we're constantly having to find new clients.
• 20:03
  We don't, we don't tend to have repeat bookings.
• 20:05
  And also people are always looking for the next trend.
• 20:07
  As you say, they want something that's different, that's bigger, that's better than their friend, than their, they don't all want a wedding that looks the same.
• 20:13
  They want to think that they're, they're Doing the next best thing.
• 20:16
  So obviously you have got a unique offering.
• 20:19
  So I would love to know practically I think you said you got 50 weddings or something like that this year.
• 20:23
  Where are they coming from?
• 20:25
  Break it down for us.
• 20:26
  Where do your inquiries come from?
• 20:27
  Is it word of mouth?
• 20:28
  Is it planners?
• 20:29
  Is it social media?
• 20:30
  Is it lots of different places?
• 20:31
  Yeah.
• 20:32
  So my first, my first three years was just me, was me pushing my pushing, pushing out there and talking to like friends because I was in the age where people were getting married.
• 20:42
  So that was.
• 20:43
  I was again a bit of luck there, a bit of strategy going there, just doing it.
• 20:46
  Whatever price they gave me, you know I'm going to be a guest anyway.
• 20:49
  You know just, just, just give me an opportunity.
• 20:51
  Then I think some planners because planners again planners are.
• 20:54
  And I speak to a lot of em, different people, a lot of wedding pro that approach me and I always tell them like forget about the planners because for a planner, a person going to try something she never
• 21:04
  tried before because it's her business and it's a reputation on the line.
• 21:08
  So focus on the couples, get the couples loving what you do, whatever that may be.
• 21:12
  Then the plans will follow after that.
• 21:14
  So in my fourth year then I saw a second planners booking me now.
• 21:17
  So I have privilege with a lot of planners, you know, across the world and they, you know, they book me there.
• 21:22
  And then a lot of it is still referrals from people that again the wedding industry that your next client is always in that room most of the time, whether it be a birthday or another wedding or whatever it
• 21:32
  might be.
• 21:33
  So the next client.
• 21:34
  So people always watching essentially so referrals.
• 21:36
  And because I get featured a lot as well, a lot of my weddings kind of go viral so that my name's always listed in the, in the list of the suppliers.
• 21:44
  So I get, you know, through that I'm trying to work on is TikTok.
• 21:48
  I know, I know TikTok is something I'm lacking and I'm still lacking even though I've gotten some help from our great content creator.
• 21:56
  So I'm working on that to develop you know my, my, my, my, my strategy there and also have a, have a place there as well.
• 22:04
  So it's a mixture of those of those different platforms or the different outreach.
• 22:09
  Yeah.
• 22:09
  And it's great to hear your work on TikTok as well because exactly as we were talking about your offerings having to evolve, our marketing is always having to evolve as well.
• 22:15
  And we do know that TikTok.
• 22:17
  Well I personally think TikTok's a great place for what you do because it is something so unique and if you're going viral on other platforms, there's absolutely no reason you can't go viral on TikTok as well.
• 22:27
  So I'm excited to see that part of your journey and to see whether or not you can get that off the ground.
• 22:32
  And I, I will be watching to see what happens there.
• 22:35
  Pressure?
• 22:36
  No, no pressure, but I will be watching absolutely.
• 22:39
  Now, it sounds then like you're incredibly successful, you've got a really busy business, you've just told me that you've got 50 weddings this year, but somehow you're still also working, I believe, full time.
• 22:52
  Is it full time as a management consultant?
• 22:55
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:56
  So let's just break that down because people listening are probably going to be blown away by that because if we'd have just spoken about the bit we talked about, they might have just thought that's what you do full
• 23:06
  time.
• 23:06
  But actually it's not.
• 23:07
  You are full time in another job.
• 23:09
  So how on earth are you managing to structure your calendar so that you can make both things work and work well?
• 23:16
  Yeah, so I think, I think I'll go another.
• 23:19
  I'll go back again.
• 23:20
  So.
• 23:21
  Growing up, my mom has always taught me that, you know, I always have multiple streams of income.
• 23:24
  She always drove that in, you know, my head that, you know, is I was most proceed from income and, you know, try to diversify your skill set.
• 23:30
  So right from, right from a young age, so I want to say I was 17, so I've always had income coming in as a, as a, as a young, as a young man.
• 23:38
  So I've always had that mentality of hard work and, you know, try to find different ways to make money in case one gets shut down or for whatever reason.
• 23:48
  So as I mentioned, I used to run a nightclub.
• 23:50
  I was still running a nightclub while I was, while I was working my nine to five and they found out at work and I didn't really like that, but then I had to take them to the club and
• 23:57
  I hosted them during one Christmas.
• 23:58
  So they kind of bought into the idea that wasn't affecting my work.
• 24:03
  But this mc, no one knows about it at work, so what if they find out?
• 24:06
  It's not really a big deal.
• 24:07
  So why do I do it?
• 24:08
  I think again, breaking it down is as an emcee, I don't start my work at around 6, 7 most of the time.
• 24:16
  So it's always in the evenings and then.
• 24:18
  And I do a lot of pre consultation that's done in evenings as well during the week.
• 24:21
  So it's quite flexible at the moment.
• 24:23
  So it doesn't affect my nine to five.
• 24:25
  So that's why I still do, you know, do both of those things.
• 24:29
  However, I do believe that I'm comfortable as well.
• 24:33
  If I'm being very honest.
• 24:34
  I'm comfortable and I don't want to.
• 24:36
  I'm scared to take the leap of faith and just quitting my 9 to 5 because I feel like if I do, if I do quit, two things could happen.
• 24:44
  I could obviously see more opportunities and obviously get more opportunities or work on, work on stuff like my tick tock during my 9 to 5 or I could just, I could not make any more money and then I'm
• 24:58
  in a worse of position.
• 24:59
  But I do believe deep down if I took the leap of faith and again it's all about the mindset and I think I'm always honest with myself.
• 25:04
  I just think like I'm comfortable because my 9 to 5 I work remotely most of the time.
• 25:08
  I could travel abroad to work abroad as well.
• 25:10
  So I'm comfortable.
• 25:11
  I don't want to take that leap of faith to find it out.
• 25:15
  So my plan is at some point maybe do like a sabbatical.
• 25:19
  I'm due for sabbatical, my company now.
• 25:20
  I've been there for over eight years, maybe for one year or six months and try it out and just test the waters a little bit or maybe go part time as well as another option.
• 25:28
  And another option is doing condensed hours, that's a new thing.
• 25:31
  And in the UK where you can work four days a week or whatever and you spread your hours over that.
• 25:36
  So that's the reason why I do it because it's, it's comfortable.
• 25:39
  It's not and it's safe.
• 25:41
  But I feel like I want to go to the next level because again, 50 weddings, they're 165 days in a year.
• 25:47
  That's still whatever percentage that is, that's, that's the wedding's happening every day across the world.
• 25:51
  And I'm not only UK based, I'm literally global.
• 25:54
  I'm everywhere.
• 25:55
  You know, I get requests from, from Japan to Cape Town to America.
• 25:59
  So I'm global.
• 26:00
  So I need to at some point and I know what we've spoken about us having a session together, one to one session discussing that as well, end of the year.
• 26:07
  So I'm looking forward to doing as well and figuring out a strategy to make it work and also ease some of my anxieties as well.
• 26:14
  And I think that's it.
• 26:15
  Like part of it is mindset, but part of it is it's okay to want to be comfortable.
• 26:19
  I've talked to people on this podcast before where actually for some people they would prefer to keep their job, even part time alongside the other job.
• 26:26
  And that's a choice that we make.
• 26:27
  And I think sometimes we have this feeling it has to be one or the other.
• 26:31
  And actually, you know, we start a business for a reason and we can either decide to go all in on that and take a risk.
• 26:38
  And you know, we know that at some point, you know, growth only happens when we make uncomfortable decisions.
• 26:43
  But equally, there's absolutely no judgment for anyone who wants a comfortable life and to do it on the side.
• 26:48
  And I love that you make it work.
• 26:50
  You manage to give your all to both.
• 26:52
  Hopefully your company aren't going to hear this podcast and make the decision for you when they realize, I mean, how they cannot know when you've been featured in the New York Times.
• 27:00
  Only going to take one person to share a link round and then they're going to be making you host the game show at the next Christmas party.
• 27:05
  Exactly.
• 27:06
  My wife would tease me, she says that the day the company Googles my name, that's the end of it.
• 27:12
  Absolutely a big deal.
• 27:13
  Just be like, I just don't want people to just know my business.
• 27:16
  But it wouldn't be a massive deal.
• 27:17
  And there are benefits of, you know, doing both actually, because like, you can take more risks in terms of like.
• 27:22
  Because I.
• 27:23
  Because again, I love this industry so much and there's so much about this industry and there's so much scope to do stuff in his industry outside of mc.
• 27:31
  And so I have a podcast I run.
• 27:33
  It's expensive to run a podcast, you know, and I do, I do a, I do in the studio.
• 27:37
  So I'm learning from you.
• 27:38
  I can't do it.
• 27:38
  You can actually do it online.
• 27:39
  Like this.
• 27:39
  I do in the studio.
• 27:40
  Cost a lot of money editing, so I can try those things out.
• 27:43
  You know, I've thought about an idea of something called the Wedding, the Wedding game.
• 27:46
  The Wedding.
• 27:47
  The Wedding road show.
• 27:47
  It's essentially like almost like a two hour, three hour show for couples.
• 27:51
  Rather than going to the typical trade fair or something like an entertainment around, like a talk show, I think about Jimmy Kimmel or that kind of vibe, whether it's a band, you know, that kind of game show for
• 28:01
  them to come and learn about weddings and you know, plan their wedding.
• 28:03
  So this stuff cost a lot, cost a Bit of money.
• 28:05
  So having a 9 to 5 allows me to explore those things risk free a little bit.
• 28:11
  So there's a sort of benefit as well.
• 28:13
  And also there's a lot of transferable skills from being in a 9 to 5.
• 28:16
  Like, you know, I'm a management consultant so I do a lot of like, huge programs, most been impounded, multi million pound programs across the uk.
• 28:24
  So I'm very, very organized and I'm, I'm very good at, you know, planning things as well.
• 28:29
  So that, that comes into my, my consultation when I'm planning the wedding from an entertainment perspective.
• 28:34
  And also obviously I spoke about my nightlife experience, my wife's theatres, theatrical experience as well.
• 28:38
  So I bring those things into the wedding industry because again, as we said earlier, it's all about what's, what are you bringing that these couples can actually enjoy and share with their guests.
• 28:50
  Because it's almost like a competition with all your friends.
• 28:52
  It's not a competition, but you don't want to do like you say, you don't have the same wedding as your.
• 28:55
  Same wedding as your friend.
• 28:56
  You want something a little bit different.
• 28:57
  So those are some of the benefits you know.
• 28:59
  You know, you get from doing both at the same time.
• 29:02
  But also when you're doing two things, your time becomes even more precious.
• 29:05
  I talk about this sometimes even just with having my children and you know, if I work, I'm giving up time with my children, therefore my time is precious.
• 29:12
  So you do have to become more strategic about the things you say yes to and the things you say no to.
• 29:16
  So when it comes to inquiries, when it comes to weddings, people wanting to book you, you know, you talked earlier about the, the wedding coming in at £150.
• 29:24
  Presumably at this point you have to be more strategic about what you say yes or no to because your time is limited.
• 29:30
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 29:32
  And you know, I'm thankful I'm in that position right now where I can like say no.
• 29:37
  And you know, I know I had a, I had an inquiry and you know, the lady was so lovely because I'm a big softie.
• 29:43
  Once you told me, you know, I've seen you here, I've seen you here and I was like, oh, I really want to do this, but I'm like, it's not right for me, you know, it's not, it's not, it's
• 29:50
  not the right, you know, so it's not the right job for me.
• 29:54
  So I, I had to say, I had to say, I had to say no.
• 29:56
  Unfortunately, another example is where.
• 29:58
  So, so the bride's mom who reached out to me, she had seen me in, in Puglia and to me in Cancun over the years and she really wanted me to be the MC at her daughter's wedding happening next
• 30:09
  year.
• 30:09
  And she was doing it at a venue that I don't like to work out because they have a sound limiter and that just ruins the experience for me.
• 30:14
  And it's a very, very strict sound limited.
• 30:16
  Like when it's time limited, I'll cut off everything.
• 30:18
  And it's just difficult because, you know, I, I'm not, I bring a lot of energy into the room.
• 30:23
  So obviously she had spoken so kindly about my work, how she respected it and I just couldn't say no because she is like she, she built her and I was the first supplier she reached out to.
• 30:34
  And I just felt like I have to do this for this lady.
• 30:36
  She was so lovely on the phone.
• 30:38
  So, so, so those two examples there where.
• 30:40
  But most of the times I get to choose where I want to work because obviously I have to protect my time as well.
• 30:45
  And also I also carve out time to rest as well.
• 30:48
  That's very, very important to me to rest because again, there's a lot of strain on my physically on my body, on my voice and everything.
• 30:56
  So I have to pace it out.
• 30:57
  I remember I did one wedding in Braga in Portugal.
• 31:01
  And so the next day, because I flew out the next day and so a lot of the guests were on the same flight as me.
• 31:06
  They were asking, oh, because I was so quiet.
• 31:08
  They were like, were you the same guy with energy yesterday?
• 31:10
  I was like, yeah, I've given it all.
• 31:12
  I have nothing left in me.
• 31:13
  So it takes a toll on my body as well.
• 31:15
  So I try to space it out and also try to create time to rest as well.
• 31:18
  But luckily it is industry, obviously.
• 31:20
  January's quiet time, February is quiet time when I don't have bookings in Cape Town, because in Cape Town that's their busy wedding season.
• 31:28
  So I try to not take gigs where possible, but I love going to Cape Town, so I always say yes most of the time.
• 31:34
  But I'm trying to always space it out.
• 31:36
  So yeah, my time is precious and also creating time to rest is very, very important to me.
• 31:40
  So I don't burn out as well.
• 31:41
  Yeah, well, that was my next question actually was how you actually do that.
• 31:45
  Because I think when you are juggling a full time job and a full time business, taking that personal time, carving it out.
• 31:50
  So do you have Any structure for that?
• 31:52
  Is it you set aside time per week, per month, is it as and when?
• 31:55
  So I don't mean just resting your voice, I mean just like resting, doing, doing things that just happen in life.
• 32:01
  You know, going to a friend's birthday, spending time with a partner.
• 32:03
  Like when do you do all of that?
• 32:05
  Yeah, I want to give a shout out to my partner, to my, to my wife.
• 32:08
  She's, she's very, very supportive.
• 32:09
  Like she's.
• 32:11
  Because, you know, I always make a joke, I make a drink to planners.
• 32:13
  I'm going to start charging cuddle tax because I don't get to be with that when I'm away.
• 32:19
  And on destination weddings and you know, it's, she's very, very supportive and you know, supporting me in different ways like, you know, make sure my pack of the things, my bag, make sure that, you know, there's a meal
• 32:28
  when I come back.
• 32:28
  And most little things, you know, really goes a very long way.
• 32:30
  So shout out to Ophelia, my partner, she listens to this podcast on that.
• 32:34
  So she's very, very supported.
• 32:35
  But that really helps as well have that partner that supports you.
• 32:38
  And then just planning like for my friends, like for friends or family events.
• 32:42
  They tell me that everyone knows I'm very busy, so they kind of tell me in advance.
• 32:45
  And once I block it out, I block it out.
• 32:47
  For example, my godson's birthday, I think it's going to be 15 this year on the 31st of August, we're going paintball and my cousin has told me well in advance.
• 32:54
  So I blocked that out and I wouldn't take any bookings on that day.
• 32:58
  So I want to be there with them to celebrate with them.
• 33:00
  So I tried to block those things out early in advance.
• 33:03
  Lucky for us, my wife and I, we travel a lot, but we travel around events or around my wedding.
• 33:09
  So for example, last year I had a wedding in Cape Town in Kenya and in Ghana.
• 33:14
  So we made those into holidays essentially.
• 33:16
  So it's a bit of a perk because like we get discounted holidays indirectly because of our opportunity, because our opportunity of me being there.
• 33:25
  In fact, the Kenya wedding, a couple knew I got married, so the deal was that they were going to put us in the same result.
• 33:32
  So they booked our whole resort for there wedding or four day wedding and they were going to put us in the same result as everyone else and to pay for my flight and my wife's flight to be there.
• 33:40
  And essentially so I didn't charge a fee because they knew because it's our honeymoon as well, and it gives us extended days as well.
• 33:46
  So those sort of stuff are some of the perks that we do.
• 33:48
  So we try to plan holidays in advance and I plug those in and then for family, personal friends things, I try to put them in my diary as soon as possible, as early as possible, and also with work
• 34:00
  as well.
• 34:01
  I'm very, very organized and I don't really get.
• 34:05
  I don't really feel the pressure or get stressed.
• 34:06
  I don't allow myself to get stressed about stuff.
• 34:08
  So I feel like whatever happens, it's going to that anyway.
• 34:11
  And, you know, I have a good team around me and I empower a lot of people because I'm a senior manager.
• 34:15
  So I empower a lot of people under me to do a lot of work.
• 34:18
  I hope they don't hear that.
• 34:20
  So they do a lot of the work and I support them.
• 34:23
  And so that's why I delegate a lot where I can and use my time efficiently.
• 34:27
  And I have a policy.
• 34:30
  If I don't hear from you, I guess you're okay.
• 34:32
  If you need me, you know where I am.
• 34:34
  I don't mic manage people.
• 34:35
  That's just stressful.
• 34:35
  So I try to use my time efficiently as much as possible, but plan in advance for holidays and plan in advance for family events as much as possible.
• 34:43
  Sometimes not possible, you know, sometimes not possible, unfortunately.
• 34:46
  Good example, my wife's birthday is tomorrow, but I have an opportunity to emcee at the Natural History Museum.
• 34:52
  And again, this is another thing.
• 34:53
  She's so supportive and she's like, yeah, you know, something you wanted to do for a long time, go for it and we'll celebrate another day.
• 34:59
  So I'm going to host a birthday there and it's a huge, it's a huge venue, beautiful venue.
• 35:05
  I've always wanted to work there so somebody can take off my bucket list.
• 35:08
  So I think having a partner that supports you and also planning in advance helps massively to make this work as well.
• 35:15
  And yeah, just creating and using the system or the structure you have within, whether at work or whatever, to work to your advantage, there are many little loopholes you can play with where you can.
• 35:24
  And you know, in my case, I empower a lot of people under me and they get good reviews, good, good, good appraisals.
• 35:29
  And then, you know, they look, they look good from their own land managers, so.
• 35:32
  So yeah, that's what I do.
• 35:33
  What about client boundary setting then?
• 35:35
  Do your clients know that you have another job?
• 35:37
  Do they not know?
• 35:38
  Do they expect that they can contact you day in, day out.
• 35:41
  How do you set your, your boundaries with them?
• 35:43
  Yeah, because I guess because I'm not a planner, so they don't, they don't speak to me as often as they would speak to a planner.
• 35:49
  And with my clients I'm very proactive.
• 35:51
  So I'm actually one chasing them to get things done.
• 35:55
  Most of the times like they forget about their own wedding.
• 35:57
  So I'm one chasing and trying to, and again, I think I've done it so that way I'm on top of things.
• 36:02
  So I have a calendar, a calendar just for weddings that shows only my weddings and it's kind of color coded as well.
• 36:09
  So it shows my weddings and my wife's activities, theater activities in there.
• 36:13
  So it's color coded there.
• 36:14
  So I know when things are coming and I know when to set up those meetings to, to, to engage.
• 36:18
  So typically I like to be clients 3 to 3 to 2 for their wedding and then we then design once they've decided everything they're doing, but then design the entertainment.
• 36:26
  And some for some clients, when I actually plan the entertainment as well because I do a bit of entertainment consultant, I, I do that a bit earlier and, and I get involved there.
• 36:34
  So but for me, clients can, can reach out to me anytime.
• 36:38
  I've never had an issue where the camera, oh, you're doing too much.
• 36:40
  You need to, you need to, you need to slow down.
• 36:41
  Maybe when I get to that stage I might do that.
• 36:44
  But right now a lot of my clients reach out to me, but I'm the one chasing them to get things, to get things done.
• 36:49
  And they do most of them, most of them.
• 36:50
  I think they don't have a nine to five.
• 36:52
  I think.
• 36:52
  Yeah, I think there's some of them, some, some of them do because of my, some of my flights I have to take a bit later in the day so I can work during the day and take it after
• 36:59
  work hours.
• 37:00
  So they knew, they do know.
• 37:02
  And it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's never an issue or they never feel like, oh, I'm not giving them enough time.
• 37:08
  I guess it was a plan.
• 37:08
  It'll be a little bit different, but for me it's absolutely fine.
• 37:11
  I never had that issue before.
• 37:12
  Sounds like it's all working beautifully.
• 37:14
  So what are you taking from your day job you then bring into your business?
• 37:18
  Because it sounds like you're very organized, you've got lots of structures.
• 37:22
  So what do you think are some of the main kind of things that you've learned in your day job that you've learned in, in business that you then put into your, Your solo projects.
• 37:30
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:31
  So I think, I think from my, for my, from my day job is a planning.
• 37:36
  I'm very, very good at planning, planning things.
• 37:38
  And you know, the way I also deliver, I work, I have loads of clients, you know, and they spend loads of money to have me in the client, in the offices.
• 37:45
  So do I deliver my, my packages, my products are in a very, very clean and crisp manner.
• 37:51
  And I can plan things meticulously as well.
• 37:55
  So I bring that then from my wife's theater company that she runs.
• 37:59
  I support her with so a lot of the creativity there.
• 38:03
  They're so creative.
• 38:04
  People are creative in this world.
• 38:05
  It's so amazing.
• 38:06
  And a lot of the ideas I have for games or whatever can come from there as well.
• 38:09
  And using lights and sound and all the special effective little things that even, like when I brought in the digital quiz, it changed the game completely because after every question you find out, everyone finds out together if you
• 38:21
  get it right.
• 38:21
  So you have to be like, oh.
• 38:22
  And then it's just changed the experience.
• 38:24
  So bringing that theater, you know, sound light into that, Bring that into the MC or the wedding space.
• 38:30
  And then obviously from when I used to run a nightclub, I used to run parties every weekend.
• 38:36
  So I understood what it took to get the party going.
• 38:39
  You know, stuff like even the lighting changes the experience for people to start dancing if it's too bright.
• 38:44
  People are a bit shy, they're a bit more conscious.
• 38:46
  People don't realize that sometimes even sound.
• 38:48
  So another thing I always ask copies are where's the.
• 38:50
  Where the speaker is going to be?
• 38:51
  Because if it's near the elderly people, they're going to want it reduced.
• 38:54
  And that brings the sound for everyone else that's further away from the, from the speaker.
• 38:57
  So those little things you learn from, you know, doing, you know, other, other experiences outside, outside of the wedding industry, you can bring that in.
• 39:06
  So, yeah, so I leverage as much as I can.
• 39:08
  And then also obviously in mc, flipping and flipping it the other side.
• 39:12
  MCN is all about sticking on your feet.
• 39:14
  Sometimes something, anything can go wrong at any time.
• 39:16
  You just have to just, just react quickly.
• 39:17
  I bring that into the, into my work as well.
• 39:19
  Something goes wrong, someone throws me a curveball in a meeting, I'm like, I'll take that and I'll come back to you in a second.
• 39:25
  You know, you know what to say.
• 39:26
  Not sounding like you don't know what's going on.
• 39:27
  So it works both way, leveraging both sides and, and there's always the opportunity to do that.
• 39:32
  Once you're doing multiple things and finding the sweet spot that can actually a thread that can go around all the things you're doing.
• 39:38
  And I think it's important to talk about because, you know, sometimes people feel ashamed that they have this other job that's going on at the side.
• 39:44
  And actually I think sometimes it can be a superpower.
• 39:46
  Sometimes like you said it, it can give you the.
• 39:48
  To be able to take more risks because you, you're financially, it's less risky.
• 39:54
  But also you can bring in that knowledge, that experience the stuff you're learning day to day into your business.
• 39:59
  And sometimes it can make it even better rather than seeing it as something that you've got to get rid of as quickly as possible.
• 40:04
  I think sometimes there's this kind of belief that, you know, you've got to just get rid of the day job and you're only successful once you have done that.
• 40:11
  But actually, you know, there's all sorts of pictures of what a business can look like and there is no right or wrong, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg moment as to when to stop one,
• 40:21
  when to go full time in the other.
• 40:22
  And you quite clearly are kind of getting closer and closer to that point.
• 40:27
  And I think some people will just blindly jump and take the risk.
• 40:30
  Some people will take a lot longer.
• 40:31
  What do you think are some of the practical markers you would want to see in your own business or in another person's business to know as the time to make a change or maybe to drop your hours?
• 40:42
  Yeah, I think the biggest thing is pipeline.
• 40:46
  And when an industry where the pipeline is one year in advance.
• 40:50
  So this was the first year where I had 30 weddings before January.
• 40:56
  So that was a huge.
• 40:57
  Whoa.
• 40:58
  Whoa.
• 40:58
  Okay, this is interesting.
• 40:59
  And obviously I've gone another 20 as the year progress, but now I'm going to get a few more late commas.
• 41:04
  So that is a big signal.
• 41:05
  Now this is the first time I've thought about, oh, I'd like to do this full time.
• 41:08
  And then I obviously reached out to you and said, let's create a strategy.
• 41:11
  So I think the only answer is a pipeline.
• 41:14
  And looking at that pipeline and seeing how can I bolster that pipeline to be bigger.
• 41:18
  So whether it be getting introduced to new planners, going into new communities, which I'm trying to do because obviously I predominantly cover black UK and American communities.
• 41:30
  So I'm trying to get into new communities and sharing this idea to new communities.
• 41:33
  So once I can do those things, increase my pipeline for the future year, then I think I'll be in a good position.
• 41:38
  But I do know that deep down if I, if I quit today, I'll be okay.
• 41:41
  I know that deep down inside, I know that for a fact.
• 41:45
  But, but it's just, it's just as comfortable and I'm being comfortable.
• 41:49
  So I'm hoping once I speak to the end of the year, you're going to just shake me up and say get out or curate a nice strategy for me and then we can actually get out.
• 41:57
  But like you said, there's no harm in doing both if it works.
• 42:01
  And currently we don't have any kids.
• 42:03
  So I can make that, I can do both right now.
• 42:06
  But I guess if I had kids, I wouldn't be able to do all of this together at the same time.
• 42:09
  So think about your situation and do what works for you and then don't jump if you don't have to.
• 42:15
  And if you are going to jump, think about, understand your business, understand your market, speak to Becca if you need to and create a strategy and then work towards that strategy and step out.
• 42:25
  And then you don't have to step out all in one go.
• 42:27
  There are so many, we're lucky in the uk label order quite good here.
• 42:30
  So you can do part time, you can do condensed hours, you can do sabbatical.
• 42:33
  There's so many different variations to make it, to make it work.
• 42:36
  The one thing that does encourage me is that a lot of people I started with in this industry, they're all doing it full time now.
• 42:40
  So it's like, oh, wow.
• 42:41
  But they're, but they have videographers and photographers.
• 42:43
  So I'm like, oh, wow.
• 42:44
  That's really, that's really, that's really encouraging to know that, you know, it's, it's possible to actually, you know, do this.
• 42:50
  And I think I watched one of your podcasts.
• 42:52
  I think it was Lee's name.
• 42:53
  Lee.
• 42:54
  Lee Russell.
• 42:56
  Yeah, the dj.
• 42:57
  It spoke about how, you know, people ask him about, you know, do you, is this, when are you gonna get a real, a real job?
• 43:02
  You know, so that's another thing that goes in my mind that is this really a real job?
• 43:05
  But I need to.
• 43:05
  Is a mindset, like it is a real job and it's respected and I'm celebrating people and making their days extra special.
• 43:11
  So that might be some issues people face as well.
• 43:12
  I thought I'll just mention that because especially in, in a African household, you know, he's an mc.
• 43:17
  But funny enough, my family's so supportive.
• 43:19
  They, they love it.
• 43:20
  They, they absolutely, absolutely love it, you know, so, and they're, they're very supportive about, you know, what I do.
• 43:25
  So there isn't that stigma.
• 43:27
  Obviously doesn't have a real job, so.
• 43:28
  And then most of them forget.
• 43:30
  I don't do it full time.
• 43:30
  So everyone's like pushing me, you know, you need to do this full time now at some point.
• 43:34
  So I'm, I'm getting there.
• 43:36
  I'm getting there closer and I'm hoping, you know, and I'm pressuring you right now, when we speak at end of the year, we have a good strategy to, to get out if possible.
• 43:44
  No, no pressure on me at all, but I'm feeling all of the pressure.
• 43:48
  But the pipeline thing's an interesting one, isn't it?
• 43:50
  Because I think in some ways seeing a good pipeline is absolutely a sign, but also it can be another comfort blanket.
• 43:57
  And we also know sometimes that the way that consumers is booking changes.
• 44:03
  I caused a lot of stress to people in the industry recently because some people are booking later than ever before.
• 44:07
  So where in previous years they could go into a year 90% booked, they're now going into a year 80, 70, 60, 50% booked, ending the year in exactly the same place as they always have been.
• 44:17
  But because consumer culture is changing, I always think that we can learn a lot from the trade industry.
• 44:22
  This, it blows my mind because I think some of it is.
• 44:24
  So much of it is in our heads.
• 44:26
  But, you know, the trade industry, plumbers, wallpaper people, plasterers, like, they don't know where their next job's coming from in two weeks time.
• 44:34
  And yet they seems to be busy.
• 44:36
  And it blows my mind.
• 44:37
  I think I don't know how they sleep at night because I'm like you.
• 44:40
  I want the comfort blanket.
• 44:41
  I know the, I want to know the Runway.
• 44:42
  I want to know who's coming.
• 44:44
  But you know that the, the work comes, they get the work, but their pipeline is, is almost zero.
• 44:50
  They just don't have it.
• 44:51
  And it, and I think so much of it in business is in our head.
• 44:56
  And you know, I have a friend who's a plasterer and I, I had this conversation with him once and I said, I don't know how you do it.
• 45:01
  And he said, well, the work will always come.
• 45:02
  And if it's getting quiet, I go out there and find it.
• 45:05
  And I thought that's, that's the mindse.
• 45:08
  All have to have as a business owner whether we have got a big pipeline or not.
• 45:11
  Actually if the work's not coming we've got to go out there and find it.
• 45:15
  It's not just going to drop into our lap.
• 45:17
  And also I think there's this kind of false belief that once we jump into going full time we're jumping off a cliff.
• 45:23
  But ultimately we can always go back and get another job if we want to.
• 45:26
  Yeah, yeah.
• 45:27
  No, I just love that statement you made about the trade industry and I never thought about it that way.
• 45:33
  And my cousin, he's a roofer and it's actually that easy.
• 45:36
  He would go out and look for the work like he has nothing coming up and then in two weeks time he's super busy.
• 45:42
  And I don't know why in our industry we don't think that way.
• 45:45
  Maybe because I don't say, well not glamorous, I don't know what's the right word to say.
• 45:49
  I don't know what it is.
• 45:49
  We just don't hustle like they do.
• 45:51
  Because my cousin has nothing in two weeks he's out there looking for work and he will find work every single time.
• 45:57
  And that's actually a good way to actually look at it.
• 45:59
  And no, that's actually very powerful.
• 46:01
  I don't thought of it that way.
• 46:02
  So.
• 46:03
  Okay, another reason to jump.
• 46:05
  Okay, now if there are people listening and they're, they're kind of in a similar boat to you or maybe even a bit earlier on in their business than you and they think, you know what, I've listened to this
• 46:16
  episode, I'm not quite ready to jump yet.
• 46:19
  What advice would you give them to continue in both roles effectively and not to kind of I guess beat themselves up about the fact that they're not ready to quit their job and it's okay to have the day
• 46:30
  job?
• 46:30
  Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah.
• 46:32
  I think the most important thing think is developing your craft.
• 46:35
  I think that is so important that whatever industry, whatever, whatever you do, video, pictures, content, develop your craft and also aim to be the best at what you do.
• 46:45
  Like I, I, I aim to be the best at what I do.
• 46:47
  Like the hours I practice, I, you know, it's all part of me now.
• 46:52
  It's just like a lifestyle now MC in so I always try to be the best and I'm always watching what's the new thing coming up and try to adapt.
• 46:59
  So like I said about game, the games I'm trying to think about for next year I'm working with teams to understand how can we make people's weddings better?
• 47:06
  Be passionate about what you do and develop your craft.
• 47:08
  I remember when I started MC and just taking us sidetracking here, I used to follow, I had a lot of DJ friends, so I used to follow all of my DJ friends to weddings to watch other MCs.
• 47:16
  So I just watched to find my voice, to find my style.
• 47:19
  Tried a few things out, didn't work out.
• 47:20
  Then I found my style.
• 47:21
  So I think just finding your unique factor and then developing that it could be the way you shoot, the way you edit, whatever it is, just find it and honing on that while you can.
• 47:31
  Because again, as we said, being in a 9 to 5 user, that safety net to try out new things and buy either new products or new gadgets or whatever you need to do.
• 47:38
  So I think working on your craft.
• 47:40
  The second thing is networking.
• 47:41
  You have to know, we just spoke about it with the trades, trade trade guys.
• 47:43
  They're doing on a different level.
• 47:45
  You have to hustle, you have to hustle, you have to network, you have to meet people, you have to go to events, you have to connect with people.
• 47:52
  Like I do this thing now, if I plan a, if a planner adds me on, on Instagram, I message you them, say hi, hello, thank you for following me on Instagram.
• 47:59
  Let's have a chat.
• 48:00
  15 minute coffee chat.
• 48:01
  I'm doing it.
• 48:01
  Sometimes they air me, they don't respond.
• 48:03
  That's absolutely fine.
• 48:03
  Some, some do you win some, you win, you win some, you lose some.
• 48:06
  That's how life is.
• 48:06
  You have to keep networking, keep networking, keep networking and, you know, just staying ahead of the trends and seeing what's going on because it's a, it's a beautiful industry we're in.
• 48:14
  I keep saying this, absolutely fantastic.
• 48:17
  People don't understand.
• 48:18
  I get paid to party.
• 48:19
  Like, it's just, it's crazy.
• 48:22
  Crazy.
• 48:22
  It's absolutely crazy.
• 48:23
  Get paid to partner.
• 48:23
  And then you see people happy.
• 48:26
  You know, it's a great industry.
• 48:27
  So I think those two things, you know, working on your craft, being the best at what you do, and also networking and finding new people.
• 48:34
  Because not everyone knows who you are, not everyone knows who you are.
• 48:37
  You need to get yourself out there and keep networking every single week and finding new people to talk to about what you do.
• 48:42
  I think improving your craft is such an important one as well.
• 48:45
  And I think often people forget that, especially when they're five, ten years into a business.
• 48:48
  So at the start of a business, people want to learn, they want to grow, they want to do the new things and then they get good and then they get booked and they sort of get a bit complacent.
• 48:56
  And I always think complacency is going to be the quickest thing to kill a business because someone else is going to come up new and excited and enthusiastic behind you and they are gunning to take your place.
• 49:06
  I mean, I do it myself.
• 49:07
  I think I'm a pretty good speaker on the wedding circuit.
• 49:10
  But I am always going to watch the best speakers and learning from them and thinking, right, how could I make this 1% better?
• 49:16
  What are they doing?
• 49:17
  Why are they scoring better?
• 49:19
  Why, why have they got more people in their room?
• 49:21
  And I think we all have to have that outlook.
• 49:23
  Even if you're got an amazing photographer, videographer, dj, MC speaker, whatever it is, there's always someone that's doing it better than you.
• 49:30
  And if there's not, they're coming any moment.
• 49:32
  And so you've gotta, you've gotta stay ahead of your game.
• 49:35
  So what are you practically doing to stay ahead in your own business?
• 49:39
  So with the MC industry it's interesting because reasons.
• 49:44
  I'll tell a quick story.
• 49:46
  So there's a huge photographer called Jose Villa, he's big globally.
• 49:53
  And then I was wondering why is he, why so special about it?
• 49:55
  So I went to just a bit of research and you know, he's been featured on Forbes as best photographer of the year, featured on Vogue.
• 50:01
  And then I said to myself, what are the awards for MCs like the big global awards for MC.
• 50:06
  So I can actually go and actually look at what they do and see how I can be better.
• 50:10
  There was none, you know, there was none out there.
• 50:12
  And I was like, man, I wish we were recognized for what we do and how we actually change the environment.
• 50:20
  So I don't want to say, I don't want to look up to that would be fair to say.
• 50:23
  So I'm kind of like, I want to stay, I'm trying to stay, be the best at what I can do and find new ways to entertain guests during the wedding event.
• 50:35
  So like I said, what I do is I speak a lot.
• 50:37
  I know people that, a lot of people that do like game shows or game nights, that's what they call them, game nights.
• 50:41
  I try to see, speak to them.
• 50:42
  I speak to about top three guys who do game nights and then I see what are the games they're playing and see if I can actually bring it into wedding.
• 50:49
  It was appropriate for that sort of setting.
• 50:51
  So I try to stay ahead and find out new Things, because once you do something, another entity can copy, which is not a big deal.
• 50:58
  We all copy each other.
• 50:59
  Copy as much as you can, but you need to find that you're the one bringing in the new ideas.
• 51:03
  Because people go to a lot of weddings and they want to see new things.
• 51:06
  So I'm trying to bring in new ideas.
• 51:07
  So when I speak to couples and they tell me what they want to do and I think, no, no, let's do it this way.
• 51:10
  And then they smile like, oh, we've never seen them before, I'm like, yes, that is a good sign.
• 51:13
  So to answer your question, I always stay ahead of the game by looking for resources outside of the wedding industry as well.
• 51:19
  Well, so people are doing game nights.
• 51:20
  My wife's.
• 51:21
  I keep going back to my wife's theater work.
• 51:23
  I learn a lot from them.
• 51:25
  They're so creative, how they do things, even how I posture myself, how I stand, you know, that sort of stuff.
• 51:31
  So I'm always trying to learn things outside of the industry and then bringing that back into the industry.
• 51:35
  That's what I try to do.
• 51:36
  And there's another string that we can add to your bow there.
• 51:38
  Maybe you can start the MC Awards and award yourself the first one so that you can at least.
• 51:45
  At least you can get off the mark.
• 51:46
  But seriously, you know, sometimes when things don't exist, we have to be the one to change the game or to bring it in or to become the leader.
• 51:53
  And I think people don't realize it's difficult to be the leader, because to be the leader, it's easy to copy.
• 51:58
  It's easy for everyone to look at someone else's concept and to say the same thing.
• 52:02
  But to be the one that's coming up with the creativity or putting your own spin on it and staying ahead is difficult.
• 52:08
  It's a craft in itself.
• 52:10
  But actually, when you can master it, then that's where you'll see success.
• 52:13
  So, yeah, we'll expect to see some MC Awards coming out, out of your business sometime soon.
• 52:17
  Another pressure.
• 52:20
  It's been such a great conversation.
• 52:22
  I've loved hearing about your juggle, about your next steps, and I think if you do take the leap to come full time, you'll have to come back on the podcast and talk about how it's gone.
• 52:31
  So maybe we'll have to put a date in the diary for this time next year.
• 52:34
  But I always end my podcast with the same question.
• 52:36
  So I'm going to pose that to you now.
• 52:38
  And it's this.
• 52:39
  What's the One thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your business.
• 52:42
  Business.
• 52:42
  Yeah, that's a very good question.
• 52:44
  I think for me is knowing that you don't have to do this journey alone.
• 52:48
  And what I mean by that is that there's so much resource out there, you know, like your podcast, different podcasts online as well.
• 52:53
  Too much resource out there.
• 52:54
  When you come in a wedding, professional people that have come before you that have actually spoken about their journey.
• 52:59
  And I wish I tapped into that a lot earlier because now I spend a lot of my time watching podcasts about weddings, about all different, all different things around weddings, and then just trying to put my knowledge about,
• 53:09
  you know, seeing what's going on there.
• 53:10
  And you never know.
• 53:11
  Anything could spark an idea.
• 53:11
  It might not be anything MC related.
• 53:13
  We just hear people's journeys, whether it be a content creator, photographer, videographer, you know, there's so much out there and just have to just find the resources and tap in as quickly as possible and not wait till you're
• 53:24
  successful or whatever that means to you.
• 53:26
  So from day one, if you're coming to wedding for you have one year experience, tap into a podcast, just one podcast a week or, you know, if you can do more, just learn and embed yourself in the resources
• 53:37
  available and also attending events as well.
• 53:38
  Well, that's something I need to start doing as I don't do that as much.
• 53:41
  So, yeah, you don't have to do journey alone, you know, because a lot of your friends might not be doing this journey with you.
• 53:46
  So find people online you can look up to or learn from and then learn that way.
• 53:50
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:51
  There's so many great resources out there.
• 53:53
  There's so many great people that can help you with all sorts of various different aspects of your business.
• 53:57
  And I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to work it out themselves.
• 54:01
  And actually sometimes you can, you can cut a lot of that time by learning from someone who's walked that road before you or gives you a piece of advice that just changes everything.
• 54:08
  And again, you, you know, not even just in the industry.
• 54:11
  I am a big advocate for looking at other different areas of the world.
• 54:15
  Like you're talking about theatre, looking at what other people are doing in other industries, listening to podcasts from different cultures, listening to podcasts from different industries, and seeing how you can bring it all together, because that is where
• 54:26
  you find that unique creativity.
• 54:29
  Ade, it's been an absolute pleasure to chat to you.
• 54:31
  I really hope that sometime, somewhere I get to experience one of your game shows soon because I am very competitive and I know that I would absolutely love it and also be trying to win it and walk away
• 54:42
  with the novelty medal.
• 54:43
  So hopefully somewhere we can make that happen.
• 54:46
  If people want to find out more about you, about your business, about what you offer for wedding and events and, or maybe even if they're a planner and they want to have a coffee with you, where are the
• 54:54
  best places to get in touch with you?
• 54:57
  So best place, Instagram right now.
• 54:58
  TikTok is not, it's not, it's not doing that great.
• 55:00
  We're working on that.
• 55:01
  So my, my username on Instagram is Mr._ I F E K T I V E.
• 55:08
  So that will be obviously in the, the credits or in the, in the notes you're going to put on there.
• 55:12
  So you can reach out to me there.
• 55:13
  So I respond very quickly.
• 55:14
  So please reach out.
• 55:16
  I love talking to wedding pros.
• 55:17
  I actually love it.
• 55:18
  Like people are starting out.
• 55:19
  I always give, I always say I would give.
• 55:21
  I can give you 15 minutes.
• 55:21
  I always give 50 minutes to people to talk to them because, you know, we all started that journey and when I started, no one helped me.
• 55:27
  So please reached out.
• 55:27
  We reach out to me and then I'm more than happy to have a conversation or about anything.
• 55:31
  I love it.
• 55:32
  And I can attest to the fact he will get back to you quickly on Instagram.
• 55:35
  So yeah, do reach out.
• 55:36
  I will make sure I all of the links about you and what you do in the show notes and maybe we should share that New York Times article in the show notes as well so people can have a
• 55:45
  look and see it for themselves.
• 55:47
  It's been such a pleasure chatting to you.
• 55:48
  Thank you so much for your time and I'm going to hold you to that.
• 55:51
  Maybe this time next year you'll have to come back and talk to us about what's changed in your business and whether or not you've gone full time or whether you're doing the same things.
• 55:59
  Such a great conversation with Ade.
• 56:01
  I really enjoyed chatting to him.
• 56:02
  What a unique offering for a wedding.
• 56:04
  It sounds like it's so much fun and I, I can see how he's changing the game for MCS and making them step up and having to do more than just announce the bride and groom or the couple into
• 56:14
  the wedding.
• 56:15
  If you want to find out more about what he's doing, go and check out that article.
• 56:18
  Go and check him out on Instagram.
• 56:20
  Connect with him over there.
• 56:21
  And I hope you've been inspired.
• 56:23
  By today's conversation.
• 56:24
  I'll see you all next time.