Latest / Leaders In Payments / Robert Bueninck, CEO of Unzer | Episode 452

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Robert Bueninck, CEO of Unzer | Episode 452 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast, where we talk to C-level leaders from across the payments landscape.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Greg Myers, and today's special guest is Robert Boonick, the CEO of Unzer.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, Robert, thank you for being here and welcome to the show.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So before we dive into your career and about the company, can you give us a quick snapshot of your personal background, maybe where you grew up, where you call home today, a few things like that?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure things.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm uh what you call a Dutch Kiwi, grew up in Amsterdam, Netherlands, lived around many different places in the world.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Lately, I lived seven years in a place called Berlin, and since about nine months, I live in Luxembourg.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So can you walk us through your professional journey and how you got to Unser?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I basically started my own business from university onwards, did a few different ventures.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Where at the end I joined a company called Klarna, which I think now is also well known in the US.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: When I joined, I think we were roughly 300 people at the time, so still very, very early.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: They just launched outside of the Nordics here in Europe.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've stayed with them for about nine years, ended up running the Benelux Plus France region for them.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Then I moved to Germany to head up what is called Dach, which is Germany, Austria, Switzerland, which is a geographical region here that is often used.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Built it out to that point being more than half of the business from a PL perspective.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And time to let the birds leave its nest and uh run a business myself fully, not just uh as a regional head.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And got asked by a company by a big PE firm called KKR, which is probably also well known, to head up this venture called called UNSER.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what I've been doing now for the last four and a half, running to five years.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, tell us what UNSER does.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So UNSAR is uh payments and beyond business.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: So what we do is we provide a full ecosystem of wherever a merchant wants to sell and commercialize its enterprise.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we can help them with payments.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that means point of sale, e-commerce.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: We have our own binoculator product as well that we sell wide label, and we also sell the software.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we do full cashier software suite for for small medium enterprises where they can also run their little business with.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: We really focus on small to mid-market.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we really try to empower also small businesses to compete in a world that is more and more digital and where we're on and offline borders have been faded away, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So in the US is a great example where this has already gone quite far, especially having the software and the payments coming in one suite, especially in in Europe, especially middle Europe, Germany, that is still uh quite early on the journey, and then we see a real important role for UNTER to play there.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And are there certain verticals that you mostly are in or any small business?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: In essence, any small business, but mostly physical retail.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And with the software suite, we've really focused on three verticals, which is uh gastronomy, restaurants, which is uh beauty, so barbershops, hairdressers, these types of businesses, and also what we call apparel, which is really the suite where where this on and offline combination um really really is important and sets food, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where we work with small local businesses but also regional chains.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So uh exciting stuff for us.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the biggest challenge that your company is solving for your customers right now?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think with within the region here, it's really this this digital transformation.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: You see that that the big, big global, but also trans-European enterprises, they've invested in this for a long time, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they have created experiences for consumers where on an offline you start a journey online, you finish it offline, and vice versa.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that of course is a challenge for smaller retailers to solve for because they don't have the budgets, they don't have the connectivity, and that's really what we try and solve for them, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: To be able to give them all the tools to provide an experience which consumers want and allows them to also compete with the big players.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and how do you go to market?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have like a sales team feet on the street or through partner channels?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: How do you go to market?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: All of it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we have we have different products that we bring to market, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really we sell them as a bundle, but also separately.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Today Unser has about 750 employees, we have about 150 salespeople.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we have, you know, we sell our point of sale still door to door as well as through online marketing.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we have both models.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Key account is a classical Key Account team, right?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where it goes through through fares, calling, and a lot of engagement through partners as well.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Where we even have a partnership with local retail banks that send us leads also for the software suite.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really encompasses the full ways of wherever our merchants can be found, uh, we try to uh to reach them.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and what would you say differentiates you from your competitors?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have a broad range of competitors on the individual products.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: We have different competitors.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: What we what makes us unique is that we can provide the full ecosystem, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: That really we're a one-stop shop where wherever a merchant wants to start his journey, they can they can work with us.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And to simplify it in companies that would be well known is we we really focus on the mid-market where a lot of the business still sits with legacy here in the region.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we start where where sum-up stops and we stop where agenda starts.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we really sit in that that mid-market where we can deliver a lot of value, but also you profits are still there to be made from a pricing point.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like most companies start with retail and move to e-commerce, or is it kind of a combination of the two?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's really a combination of the two.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really a shift you've seen, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Where a lot of physical retail, of course, started having web shops, but now you also see it with restaurants, certainly post-COVID, that you have QR code payments being part of what's normally offered, which is of course, in itself, a mix between an online transaction through the QR code and the phone, talking to the cashier solution physically in the restaurant, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a classical example where even in a small restaurant online have merged.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: But what you also see, of course, is that a lot of online retailers are looking into having some physical stores, uh, either through pop-up stores in the beginning, but also as a sort of an experience center.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you see that that these two worlds are uh yeah, more and more one.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk a little bit about the future.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, where do you see the biggest growth opportunity in your segment of payments?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, within our markets, like I said, they're still early on the transition phase of having the software and the and the payments being a combined offering, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's we see a lot of opportunity there.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen a growth rate now year over year of more than 100% within this uh this business segment of us.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we really foresee that to to continue to grow, which is massive opportunity.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, yeah, you also see, of course, that that APMs continue to grow.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we also see a lot of opportunity for our bina-pulator offering, which is uh in terms of acceptance rates and loss rates, really amazingly performing in the market.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what does the success look like for your company, say, over the next three to five years?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Next three to five years.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think first we'll we'll have all our products in all our markets.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: We'll make Germany digital, as I like to joke to my German colleagues.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's nice as a Dutchman to joke a bit about the Germans being behind.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, I think when we really filled in that mission and really have um grown quite big in our core markets, uh, I think we can move on and uh and deliver our products to the rest of Europe.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So in the US, seems like every vertical has a software that businesses use to operate within that vertical, and then payments is kind of bolted onto it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is that similar there or is it a different model altogether?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of one question.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second part would be like, what does the software do that you have?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, here it's inventory control, it's automating workflows, things like that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a similar kind of setup there or is it different?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is very much a similar setup.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think you have a you have a lot of niche software players that really solve for very niche product lines.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is quite the same.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: What is quite new is this bundling of it in a combined offering.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it is still quite normal that you you buy your payments from one vendor, you then buy your software from another vendor, and then you need to connect it to the US payment landscape, it is a bit easier in the way that it's very card dominant, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Which scales quite easily.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Within Europe, there's a lot of local payment methods that you really require to have to be successful locally.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they have a much wider range of APMs that that also take market share.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's a quite complex market to operate in.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: That also means that the barrier of entry is quite high for these combined offerings, and this is also why this maturity hasn't really developed yet, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: So this is uh this is why there's still this this big market opportunity lake for us, which we're taking in.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of the software, we have a suite which delivers for for small to medium retailers when it gets to a certain complexity, then we we know what we're good at, and then we partner with the software vendors that take them from there, essentially.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's a limit to what you can do to perfection, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we that's why we we keep our target quite contained and uh and focused.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say are the biggest trends that are reshaping the payments industry?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, of course, I now need to say um agente commerce and uh stable coin.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Those are really the buzzwords, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And for everybody that's been in in payments uh know that every year has its new buzzwords, and many of them come out and and really become massive, and and some end up being disappointing.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna pass my judgment whether these two follow in the first or the second category.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think both, of course, clearly have a big role to play in the future.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: But often it's also the little things that mature and and really bring a massive wave of differentiation, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh something like the bundling is is a clear one.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I think also you start seeing that from a regulatory perspective, the macro movings from a geopolitical perspective do change things, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: In Europe, there's a lot of political push now slowly to have a European payment scheme that is very independent from outside vendors.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that will, I think, lead to quite some changes in time.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bit of a lack of trust on uh Chinese terminals, and there's a bit of a lack of trust on uh US payment providers also following email from the International Court of Justice being blocked, etc.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's early days, but I'm I'm pretty sure there's a lot of noise coming from that perspective.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you hear much from your small businesses about agentic commerce?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's a reality for them in the next couple of years?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: They ask us for advice, they ask us where we see it going.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think our role to play is really to help our merchants sell whatever channel that is relevant for them, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for us as a business, it's we're we're we're really focused on being one of the first ones out uh to be able to provide this to our merchants when it comes to market.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and at the same time also provide them with advice on how they're best equipped in order to play a role in these new channels.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But it's still very early days, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Especially for small and medium retailers.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's more that they they want to know what to do with it rather than they ask for very concrete solutions.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think there's much difference in in what we hear uh, you know, here in the US as far as that goes.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's still trying to figure out what does it really mean and you know, not sure who even has solutions yet, but everyone seems to think it's coming, so seems to be similar there.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that has always intrigued me about Europe is sort of the account-to-account payments, because we don't really have that in the US at the retail level like we do for billers, you know, your power bill and your electricity and water and those kind of things are often account-to-account.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as ever walking into a restaurant or walking into a retail store or, you know, really paying online, we don't necessarily have that in the U.S.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So curious your thoughts on that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: How much of that do you see?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see that increasing over the years?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just your thoughts there.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: The level of maturity really, really differs per market.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think moving into a retail store, unless it functions like a peer-to-peer payment, that is still not that mature.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the use cases are not that big yet.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: But from an online perspective, some of Europe's markets, take the Netherlands or Belgium or now also even Sweden and Switzerland, it takes the majority of the checkout, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: In the Netherlands, about 80% of all online transactions are essentially an account-to-account transaction.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Merchants love it because it's very safe for them, it's super cheap, and they get their funds straight away.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: From a consumer perspective, they like it because it's easy and convenient and they know about it, but they don't have the buyer protection as easy, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if they return their goods and they need to wait some time for them to get their money back.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: So this is also one of the reasons why um buy now pay later plays such a big role.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because it of course gives the ultimate buyer protection.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: You uh you don't pay for it yet if you don't receive the goods, right?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's now there's some initiatives coming out of the European Parliament which wants to create a pan-European account-to-account payment method or payment reels.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because now there's a lot of local initiatives, but per country it's different and it's not really connected yet.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where you you'll probably see a shift.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Pricing is also very different for market.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple final questions.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you could go back in time and give yourself some advice at the start of your career, what would that be?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you look at some of the bad decisions I made versus the good decisions I made, the bad ones were usually when my gut told me something, but my rationale took over and my rationale convinced me to do the other thing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's a bit counterintuitive in in the in a world where everything needs to be data-driven decisions, but sometimes it's you gotta follow your gut if you trust it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be uh definitely one thing I would tell myself.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: What's the one thing in payments that you know maybe people who are listening today, what do you think they should really be thinking about like right now, today when it comes to payments?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think the beautiful thing of payments is always that there's a lot of change, there's a lot of hype, there's a lot of talk about this industry will be wiped out tomorrow and that will be completely different.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And but at the end, there's some very core consistent lines that you need to think of where it is does it really solve something for the consumer?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Does it really make it easier for the consumer?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end, the toughest thing to change is habit, and a lot of payment initiatives forget that people don't change habit overnight, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Unless it really, really incrementally makes something better.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that is where a lot of the initiative fails and why we're all not paying with Google Glasses as we wink.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's really about does it solve something or not?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if it does, then it can go quickly.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes uh the solution is overdone for what it's solving for.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: So before we wrap up, any final thoughts, anything you want to leave the audience with related to the company, to you know, your career?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Any final comments?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, just follow your bean payments and follow Unser.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of interesting things going on.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Robert, thank you so much for your time today.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's very valuable, so I really appreciate you being on the show.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, Greg.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And until the next story.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you visit our website at leadersinpayments.com, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes.
• 15:22
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