Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1999's Deterrence

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1999's Deterrence · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
• 0:05
  movie talk show Reach Week. One of us takes a movie off our
• 0:07
  shelf, presents it to the other four.
• 0:08
  Discussion. This week coming off of Phil's
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  Shelf 1990 Nines Deterrence, written and directed by Rod
• 0:17
  Lurie. Correct.
• 0:20
  I don't know much about Rod. You're really missing out man.
• 0:25
  Our Philip, why is this movie on your?
• 0:26
  Shelf, It's a movie that I first rented from Rogers in in the
• 0:33
  year 2000. They appreciate the Shadow.
• 0:35
  Yeah. Yeah, they need the attention
• 0:37
  from the year 2000. OK, On video cassette, Kevin
• 0:41
  Pollock, whom I was a really big fan of in The Usual Suspects, I
• 0:43
  thought was hilarious. It was good in that.
• 0:44
  And a few good men and was a name.
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  And then Timothy Hutton, who might love obviously beautiful
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  girls. I was like, what's this?
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  And a political movie, which I was into.
• 0:52
  Yeah, OK. And I loved the movie, and I was
• 0:56
  curious, given the state of the world.
• 1:00
  Yes, I thought it might be an interesting discussion as it
• 1:05
  relates to the world we're living in.
• 1:06
  Today I picked up on that. Oh wow.
• 1:08
  Couple similarities. Paying attention for the most
• 1:11
  part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, but certainly some different players and some
• 1:15
  different things, but the same song and dance.
• 1:17
  And not just now, but throughout this years.
• 1:20
  Yeah, for sure. Rinse and repeat.
• 1:22
  Sadly, yeah. Have you had a history with this
• 1:25
  movie at? All surprisingly not, because in
• 1:27
  99 I was going to the theatre even more than I was in 95.
• 1:34
  Wow. That's a lot.
• 1:35
  A couple times a week. OK.
• 1:37
  So I jumped on to IMDb to see if there was any critic reviews to
• 1:44
  see if this actually ever was in theatres.
• 1:46
  How would I have missed it? A Pollock.
• 1:48
  I love a Pollock. Prefer a Jackson Pollock course
• 1:51
  more expensive. The Painter I.
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  Think we could do Pollock 2002 movies?
• 1:56
  Yeah, no thanks. It did get some Meadow score.
• 2:00
  What the values are doesn't matter.
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  Makes no. Difference but for.
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  Those who may not be aware of this movie and wanna know what
• 2:05
  it's about, let me tell you since I'm here anyways.
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  OK, Full faithful. Faithful.
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  The president of the United States must deal with an
• 2:13
  international military crisis while confined to a Colorado
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  diner during a freak snowstorm. It had to be up to freak
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  snowstorm. We're dealing with Colorado here
• 2:24
  now. I don't live there.
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  I'm not a weatherman. Phil.
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  That's I I'm pretty sure that's wouldn't be freaked out a
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  snowstorm in Colorado. No, Maybe it's the time of year.
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  Perhaps. Who's to say?
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  Well. These days, again, wouldn't
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  surprise. Me.
• 2:41
  That's right. That's right.
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  But there you go. How do you feel about it that?
• 2:44
  Summarizes it pretty well, and I think that's fairly compelling.
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  Yeah, get you into I. Think if you're telling
• 2:49
  somebody, you know, watch this movie.
• 2:50
  It's about a global catastrophe. Yeah, at the brink of nuclear
• 2:57
  gamesmanship. Like a breaking point and you're
• 2:59
  in. And when you're trapped, yeah, I
• 3:01
  mean, I think that's a compelling piece of information
• 3:03
  now, whether this movie succeeds in building that tension.
• 3:07
  That's why we're here. Exactly.
• 3:08
  That's right through the bullshit.
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  But I think just as a log line, I see why someone might say,
• 3:13
  yeah, I'd see that movie and the way I knew that this movie and I
• 3:17
  couldn't place the specific moment.
• 3:19
  There are a couple in this movie that I kind of felt like maybe
• 3:21
  this was it. But at the very least, I'll
• 3:24
  identify that when I watched this movie, I was lying in my
• 3:29
  bed at home. OK, King size queen.
• 3:31
  Just a double, doesn't matter. It's a waterbed as as OHS and I
• 3:35
  was leaning on my right arm watching it on my television as
• 3:40
  the movie progressed. How I knew that the movie was
• 3:44
  working. I sat up.
• 3:46
  Yeah. And I leaned.
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  Forward Ohhhhh I thought maybe you were on the same arm for so
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  long that it got numb and you didn't realize you're how
• 3:54
  uncomfortable you've been for the last while.
• 3:55
  No, I've done that. OK, sure, that makes some sense.
• 3:58
  They both were like laziness. This one I just meant to say
• 4:02
  like whatever was happening in the movie was enough to go from
• 4:05
  what I would call maybe a passive viewing experience, sure
• 4:08
  you're in it to a far more engaged like I am locked in.
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  Did you salute? No, OK, good.
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  And so that aspect of the movie, what I remembered was that
• 4:18
  feeling of being really captivated and intrigued.
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  So I happily bought the DVD when it came out and that's how it
• 4:27
  sits on my. Shelf.
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  I guess we'll find out as we get on if those feelings have
• 4:31
  remained. If you stood up this time, had
• 4:35
  your back straight, or you were laying down with a bag full of
• 4:38
  chips all over you. I don't do that.
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  I don't do that. No, Oreos not.
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  Chips No, I don't eat Oreos. No sugar at night I Polish off a
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  whole bag of BBQ chips the other night lady was gone for the.
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  Weekend and we know the boundaries are.
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  She's actually just as bad as me with chips.
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  She's got a chip problem. She's like, no, no, that's not
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  due. But once that bag opens, fair
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  game. I say, honey, are you done with
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  that yet? And she gets all offended.
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  Get back from your. Hands.
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  Yeah, from my cold, dead hands. He'll take these chips.
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  It's not even her favorite flavor.
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  I got it for me. Got her flavor.
• 5:12
  I don't think, Miss Vicky, some garbage.
• 5:14
  I'm not buying that. You wanna go get it, Get off
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  your ass. Get out there.
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  Yeah, that's fair. So we clearly both love chips
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  and me and my wife both hate war.
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  Not a fan. What is it good for?
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  Absolutely nothing. Say it again.
• 5:29
  Thanks that the Seinfeld, I appreciate it.
• 5:31
  That's up Bruce Springsteen. It's actually.
• 5:33
  Not it's. It's a song from the 60s.
• 5:35
  No, it's the Seinfeld episode season 2.
• 5:37
  Yeah, Bruce Springsteen on his latest tour.
• 5:39
  Open the boss. Speech, yes.
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  And it culminates in him saying, you know, we're choosing peace
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  over or the whole band kicks in, lights go up.
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  It's great. Now as a boss, do you think he's
• 5:51
  a better manager or a better leader?
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  I think he's probably both because he's the.
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  Best. He's the best.
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  Yeah, You heard it here, folks. Bruce is the best, not Bruce
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  Willis. No, no, no lower management.
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  Strongly doubt that now we have an opening sequence if you
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  noticed. I did.
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  I watched the. Movie colour free Yes yes black
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  and. White Lyndon Johnson.
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  That's who that was, yes. LJ LBJ LBJ That's.
• 6:18
  Right, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Good looking guy.
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  Yeah, he was the vice President Kennedy.
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  OK. So, yeah, he's sort of basically
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  making the argument that war unfortunately sends young people
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  to kill people they've never met, they don't even know well
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  enough to hate. It's creating this sort of
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  culture. It's our kids that are dying.
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  Let's choose peace. This is message now.
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  Funnily enough, he's involved on some level the Vietnam War, the
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  early beginning pieces of that, and Cambodia and the Bay of Pay,
• 6:48
  Like he's involved in some of that as the vice president, but
• 6:50
  as an introduction of the philosophy of war.
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  And then we get into the title sequence, which obviously goes
• 6:58
  on from there. But right away, is there a, I
• 7:01
  mean, obviously he didn't know who he was, but is there
• 7:03
  anything about that speech that either resonates in the moment
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  or that you kind of reflected on throughout the movie as being
• 7:11
  resonant? I more or less lumped the
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  beginning with the rest of the presidents.
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  The title sequence, you're saying?
• 7:18
  Yeah, the whole yeah, the black and white stuff.
• 7:20
  OK, sure. That's yeah.
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  But it continued a little bit longer, which actually confused
• 7:24
  me to what year we were in. Sure, like our year 1960. 5
• 7:28
  opening a diner after that, right?
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  Like there's definitely some elements of like, is this a 50s
• 7:32
  diner? 60s Diner.
• 7:33
  Yeah, I don't know when the Denver Nuggets like when the NBA
• 7:36
  was born. I don't know if it's a 60s thing
• 7:38
  or couldn't. Yeah, no, it's invented by
• 7:41
  Canadians. Yeah, of course, that's all we
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  know. But then Buddy Mantel had a cell
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  phone of sorts. But then like, is this a CB
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  radio? I wasn't sure.
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  Could be. But anyway, so the black and
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  white confused me, but the faces did not confuse me.
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  I recognized almost all of them. OK, Clinton, Nixon, Truman.
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  Huge. Using that show.
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  FDR. Of course. Clinton's a favorite of mine.
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  Yeah. Like Bill did some great things.
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  I would argue George Bush, Junior, senior, senior.
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  It looks similar, sure, but the message amongst them all seemed
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  to be pretty consistent that they don't want to do it.
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  We're going to have to, though. Yeah, we're prepared to in the
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  event that. We're not starting anything here
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  and I really struggled to go into that with an open mind with
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  what's happening today. Like, I don't believe anything,
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  especially from that part of the world.
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  OK, South of us, sure. My thought process is you
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  probably started this even if you didn't start this.
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  Yeah, well, in this instance they absolutely did start.
• 8:43
  This Yeah, in this movie. No, I mean in the in real life.
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  Yeah, In real life, you chose to start this.
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  Exactly. That's so apparent now.
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  But I think it's more apparent because of the media, Internet,
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  all these things. I asked myself, was it always
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  this way? And we just didn't have the
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  means to communicate that to the average Joe like me.
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  And I goes back as World War 2 like, well, no way they were
• 9:06
  forced to go into that one. And I've watched a lot of World
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  wars. The Pearl Harbor movie.
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  Exactly. Yeah.
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  Michael Bay knows. Yeah, exactly.
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  But I would say beyond World War 2, I question it all.
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  I question their intent, I question who actually started
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  it, and I question their Intel, as it were, like what they're
• 9:27
  telling us, Is that really what's going on over?
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  There. Well, there's obviously been
• 9:31
  some holes to poke in that world.
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  And yeah. In 2003, you know, with the Iraq
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  war post September 11th, they've got weapons of mass destruction.
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  We know it. It's.
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  Do they today? It totally.
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  And they're, you know, the great liberators are going to do their
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  things. In Cambodia was that same thing,
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  you know, which kicks off the Vietnam War and the dominoes of
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  communism coming to your front door.
• 9:53
  The. Pearl Harbor, but Reagan, it's a
• 9:55
  lot of strong harboring. That's a lot of Saber rattling.
• 9:58
  It's a lot of tough talk. We're the biggest military.
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  We're going to do this. And you got Eisenhower was
• 10:03
  saying, you know, tear down the military complex.
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  We cannot let it define us. We must let peacekeeping
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  missions and diplomacy reign. It's as if the US is the dad at
• 10:17
  lunch trying to tell you the way to run your life.
• 10:20
  Hmm. It's their rules and you either
• 10:22
  play by them or not. And invariably you get somebody
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  or some country or some dictator or some president or Prime
• 10:29
  Minister, whomever to finally say you don't get to dictate the
• 10:33
  terms of my life, my country, my constituencies, and you're going
• 10:37
  to get some. Pushback.
• 10:38
  Yeah, for sure. And that's how Foreign Affairs
• 10:43
  has really worked in many of the ways over the years is we're
• 10:46
  going to extract what we want from you, we're going to install
• 10:49
  a new leader that we like, and we're going to take what we can.
• 10:53
  Yeah, they've tried that on many, many, many, many times.
• 10:55
  It seems kind of a go too. Sure, and sometimes it works and
• 10:58
  sometimes it doesn't, but it doesn't ingratiate yourselves
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  across the world. And this movie came out in 99
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  and at time of relative peace and prosperity.
• 11:07
  Things were going well for me, going to theatre all the time,
• 11:10
  not fear in the world. Did you have a plan though?
• 11:13
  I knew what I was going to see. I don't know what seats is gonna
• 11:16
  have, sure, but. I had a plan.
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  So that is a year before September 11th, a couple years
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  before the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and and and.
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  Right there, forever. It keeps going on and on and on,
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  and it was coming about eight years or so, maybe a little
• 11:34
  longer after the last Kuwaiti invasion from Iraq. 90. 191.
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  Ish. That's the one I sort of
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  remembered because my old house where we used to live and I knew
• 11:44
  I moved when I was 1415. So that's right in there.
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  And remember, that's the first time where I was at an age where
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  I felt a little concerned about war in general, because World
• 11:57
  War 2 was in the history books for me.
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  Yeah, some great movies, of course, but we're past that.
• 12:01
  We're better now. We figured it all out, and this
• 12:04
  was happening now. I'm like, oh, we're not done.
• 12:07
  But it was such an easy, quote, UN quote, war, right?
• 12:10
  They came in, they took care of Iraq, Kuwait liberated and all
• 12:13
  that stuff. Stormin Norman took care of
• 12:17
  business. Operation Desert Storm.
• 12:18
  You get all these like fancy names.
• 12:20
  You get a logo. Add a ring to.
• 12:21
  It and you get the media like you're saying right now, it's
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  populating it, it's got a little Chiron and it's doing its thing.
• 12:26
  Ever since Vietnam, right when we saw it and we were soldiers.
• 12:29
  That's right there. Right there.
• 12:30
  Yeah. Right after they're done.
• 12:33
  Like it's like a sports game. You just win the Super Bowl.
• 12:36
  How did it feel? Let this band enjoy the moments
• 12:40
  and they were doing the same thing to Mel Gibson's character
• 12:42
  and I'm like, wow, how real was that?
• 12:44
  Totally. And they lost the Vietnam War,
• 12:46
  so like, it's even. More determined that yeah, it's
• 12:48
  the verdict still out. So I just thought in terms of
• 12:51
  setting a tone for the movie, yes, what I liked about it was
• 12:55
  it's taking these really big global idea, stretching it out
• 12:59
  over literally 40 years, 50 years, even 60 years of
• 13:03
  presidents and speeches about peace and war and so forth, and
• 13:07
  then having it blend. And I'm sure you caught it.
• 13:10
  There's a moment where it goes from the presence we know to
• 13:15
  either a press secretary or a chairman general, whomever says
• 13:20
  to China, you think that we're just going to push over or fall
• 13:24
  over, Try me. They're talking about in 2007,
• 13:27
  this will not happen. So we finally figure out, to
• 13:30
  your point, what year we're in. Yeah.
• 13:33
  And the lay of the land, it's seven years in the future from
• 13:36
  when the movies made. And I thought that was a pretty
• 13:39
  seamless transition from a history lesson to present day
• 13:43
  go, but still in the black and white.
• 13:45
  Yeah, that's the confusing. Part.
• 13:46
  That's what it. Would have been a timer like oh,
• 13:48
  now we're. In exactly even like I'm calling
• 13:50
  it CNN, but it was IBS I think. Yes, yeah.
• 13:52
  You should know. That I don't have pretty good
• 13:55
  there another problems, Obviously I figured it out.
• 13:59
  Yes, of course, just looking at the clothes.
• 14:01
  That's when I figured it out. OK, We're pretty much nowish.
• 14:05
  Yeah. Future.
• 14:06
  Yeah, we're future, but not far. Yeah.
• 14:08
  Like the distant, distant future.
• 14:10
  What was interesting about that, just if you caught it, and we're
• 14:12
  not going to spend too much time on him because I hate to mention
• 14:14
  it, but the Democratic primary. Was fought.
• 14:18
  Between Ericsson and Trump, there it is. 3rd watch, third
• 14:24
  watch, observing more. And I thought that was like a
• 14:27
  Simpsons thing, right? Yeah, obviously means nothing in
• 14:30
  the context of 2000. Again, obviously not a Republic.
• 14:32
  Everything's a choice 100. Percent, but he's the guy that's
• 14:35
  ubiquitous in the culture, so it's not surprising that name
• 14:38
  might. He's joked with running, but
• 14:40
  they roll the dice. I will put him in there.
• 14:42
  That's right. The fact that he was a Democrat
• 14:43
  just made me chuckle. The challenge of this movie,
• 14:45
  then we'll talk about throughout the film.
• 14:46
  Like you mentioned, we have all the presidents, 40 years of
• 14:49
  history making this feel really big.
• 14:53
  And I do like the opening credits.
• 14:54
  I love the. Yeah, that and we have the world
• 14:57
  like we have the globe, which helps make this feel big.
• 15:01
  Totally. And I'm going into this movie
• 15:03
  not having a clue. I don't even know what the word
• 15:05
  deterrence means. OK, syllable.
• 15:08
  I kept thinking about Deliverance, which, again, I
• 15:11
  don't know what that movie is about.
• 15:13
  People have talked about it. Yeah.
• 15:14
  You like that one? Seems like a taboo subject, but
• 15:17
  it's just like one word starts with D, ends with an E.
• 15:20
  I know it's similarities in the ballpark for sure.
• 15:22
  Yeah, That's Ned Beatty and Burt Reynolds, Jon Voight, ohe Ronnie
• 15:26
  Cox. Is on your.
• 15:27
  Shelf. It is on my shelf.
• 15:28
  Yeah, of course, if it's coming off, it's a tough watch and some
• 15:31
  John Badham movie or or John Borham Burnham.
• 15:34
  So have no idea what I'm watching.
• 15:36
  Here are you getting into it? Is the question.
• 15:39
  I'm not out. You know, these these could be a
• 15:41
  hit and miss these types of films like looking at it now, we
• 15:45
  did American president, we did Dave very different movies.
• 15:48
  But obviously you're the main character is the president.
• 15:51
  So this comes from a different angle completely, and telling a
• 15:55
  story in such a different and interesting way.
• 15:59
  I was curious to see if it would keep my attention for the full
• 16:02
  movie. Yeah.
• 16:02
  And, well, that's the goal. What I found interesting is the
• 16:06
  setup that this movie has because we end up discovering as
• 16:10
  we watch it that the whole movie takes place in this diner with
• 16:14
  the same seven or eight people. But then also cutting to news
• 16:18
  reports. Yeah, the weather in Aztec,
• 16:21
  Colorado, very good. The terrible snowstorms we can't
• 16:25
  see. We've got a blindness of .5
• 16:27
  kilometers or miles. It's not good.
• 16:29
  Gotta find the next nearest place.
• 16:31
  I thought the setup is executed perfectly.
• 16:35
  As a person that is sitting across the couch from somebody
• 16:39
  who needs often the specifics to get into it, I wonder.
• 16:44
  Laid out for me. Yeah, but I thought this movie
• 16:46
  did a very good job of that early on, which is to establish
• 16:50
  the stakes we're dealing with, or at least conceptually.
• 16:52
  We don't yet know what his plot is, but we spend this much time
• 16:55
  talking about war. Obviously there's things
• 16:57
  something something to do with it, right.
• 16:59
  And then the weather and we have to get over to the diner.
• 17:01
  So it doesn't feel like it's contrived to me that he's in the
• 17:06
  room. I think they actually do a
• 17:08
  pretty good job of this part of the movie, the whole concept of
• 17:11
  everything happening in this diner.
• 17:12
  For some people, not me, Phillip could be a tough one to digest.
• 17:16
  Sure. I think because even the things
• 17:19
  that may not make sense, they are able to make it make sense
• 17:23
  and that's all you can really ask for.
• 17:25
  So nothing stood out of me like bullshit because they're just
• 17:28
  explaining things like, OK, satellite phones, OK, I get it.
• 17:31
  Sure. And you're talking to this guy.
• 17:32
  You're talking to that guy. There's one thing that I do off
• 17:38
  the shelf not coming on, but I'll reveal a little bit later.
• 17:41
  It was like, wait a minute. But other than that, I was
• 17:45
  pretty impressed with that ability to tell this story in
• 17:49
  that setting and very cost effective for a budget point of
• 17:53
  view. Totally.
• 17:54
  And you have Pollock as your lead now.
• 17:57
  Dicey, you're not. Sure.
• 17:59
  Yeah, I think we both agree. Solid guy, but he's always
• 18:02
  enjoyable. But he's always the other guy.
• 18:04
  We have the same conversation about Jeff Goldblum.
• 18:06
  Can he be the lead? Sure.
• 18:08
  And he was number. Well, you know, I don't know.
• 18:11
  It was looking back, I thought we were a little bit harsh on
• 18:13
  it. Actually.
• 18:14
  I think he can lead. I changed my tune on that.
• 18:16
  One Oh my God, I know no conviction whatsoever.
• 18:19
  No backbone, back on the fence. That we just get comfortable,
• 18:23
  cozy. Up It's a thick fence, lots of
• 18:25
  room. I was able to get this lazy boy
• 18:27
  on top of this fence and I'm doing quite well.
• 18:29
  There cushion it was reclines now got a fence that reclines.
• 18:32
  Well, you know what? In this movie, there's a lot of
• 18:35
  times in it that I was on, I don't want to say on the fence,
• 18:37
  but I had mixed feelings about this movie.
• 18:40
  Do I like it? Do I not like it ends.
• 18:43
  I came to somewhat of a conclusion.
• 18:44
  You know, some what's all we can ask for, really.
• 18:46
  Yeah. What I think is that the point
• 18:48
  of the movie, or at least the themes of the movie ask you to
• 18:50
  make those kinds of determinations.
• 18:52
  And so if you're torn at times about what is or isn't a good
• 18:57
  idea or a positive or whatever else, and how do I feel about
• 18:59
  these decisions that are being made, I think that is
• 19:02
  intentional. So that is OK.
• 19:04
  And I think it's important. Now I wonder, just before we
• 19:06
  leave the subject, can we make a promise right now that at the
• 19:11
  end of the episode we will talk about ranking all of the
• 19:16
  presidents in the montage? Will write this and then ignore
• 19:20
  it maybe. Later.
• 19:21
  Oh yeah, we can definitely ignore it because I don't want
• 19:23
  to pick and choose. No, no, but I'll tell.
• 19:25
  You right now, Clinton's my. Favorite.
• 19:27
  He's my boy. He's my boy.
• 19:29
  JFK's up there, too. Gone before his time can say
• 19:32
  about that. Which should come off your
• 19:34
  shelf. Hopefully I can't wait.
• 19:36
  I got a beautiful 4K shout factory 3 disc set.
• 19:40
  Now we're talking talk My language directors cut Yum Yum.
• 19:46
  But to finish to finish off the thought, here I am on board.
• 19:50
  OK, great. So everything that's happening,
• 19:52
  I've accepted the terms of the movie.
• 19:55
  Wonderful doesn't mean necessarily going to love it
• 19:57
  doesn't matter like it, but. If you don't accept it, if you
• 20:00
  don't accept that this guy, president of the United States,
• 20:03
  can end up diner in the middle of Colorado, it's.
• 20:06
  Over. Then you're going to be
• 20:08
  wrestling with that for the next 100 and, you know, 20. 5
• 20:12
  minutes. Don't bother at that point.
• 20:13
  Yeah, you're not doing it. That's right.
• 20:15
  But I think the movie justifies its positions and shows itself
• 20:18
  well enough to make it engaging and like, yeah, this makes
• 20:21
  sense. One thing.
• 20:22
  Felt that might be challenging for this movie is exposition
• 20:27
  when you're in such a combined space with a confined number of
• 20:31
  characters and we already know it's going to be dialogue heavy.
• 20:34
  Yes because of that. Exactly.
• 20:36
  So do we really want Pollock explaining everything?
• 20:40
  Spend the half movie there. Fortunately, like many diners
• 20:43
  and cafes in 2007, they had a 24 inch TV.
• 20:49
  Other days, weren't they? Gosh, it was so.
• 20:52
  Really, no. It's miserable.
• 20:54
  And we were able to get some of those things through the
• 20:57
  newscast that comes up regularly, even at the very
• 21:00
  beginning. But now it's in colour and we
• 21:03
  get again IBS is the CNN. Broadcaster.
• 21:06
  Yeah, or Fox. I don't know which one it leans
• 21:08
  to, if it's the right or the left.
• 21:09
  I don't know which ones which I play.
• 21:11
  Centre when you're dealing with right up the middle.
• 21:16
  So I think that helps the movie tell its story along the way,
• 21:19
  having that extra voice. Correct.
• 21:21
  What I think is most interesting though, is they established that
• 21:24
  Pollock was never elected, and that comes into play throughout
• 21:26
  the whole movie. He's obviously Jewish, which
• 21:29
  obviously will come back later. But more importantly, he's a
• 21:32
  vice president that was appointed by the president after
• 21:36
  the first vice president that was elected got kicked out for
• 21:40
  scandal, and the president himself, who was elected died.
• 21:44
  That sounds about right. Yeah.
• 21:45
  The accountability piece, like Dave, a little bit, sure.
• 21:49
  The accountability piece comes in handy and it comes in.
• 21:51
  It's important later, and I think it's really well executed
• 21:55
  here. And it's all plausible because
• 21:58
  Speaking of Nixon, right, his first vice president, Spiro
• 22:02
  Agnew, was thrown out for scandal.
• 22:04
  So I brought Gerald Ford in. And then, when Nixon resigned,
• 22:08
  Gerald Ford became the president.
• 22:10
  That was the last time I believe.
• 22:11
  Exactly. But so there is a precedent.
• 22:13
  So again, it's not so far fetched.
• 22:15
  Doesn't feel tacked on. Doesn't.
• 22:16
  Feel it's in the law book so can happen.
• 22:20
  Exactly. The more you make the stuff
• 22:22
  around what happens real, then you can be a little bit more
• 22:25
  fanciful with what does happen. And that's the same thing with
• 22:29
  establishing reality. Tom Savini in the Friday the
• 22:31
  13th movies, he talks about how the best kills come when you
• 22:35
  establish the acts in the tree trunk shows that it's sharp,
• 22:40
  it's powerful, it's in there and it's real.
• 22:43
  And then when the guy picks it up later and he grabs it out of
• 22:46
  the trunk and stabs the guy in the head, we know that part
• 22:49
  isn't real because that person isn't but doesn't die.
• 22:53
  But we've made the connection that that's real.
• 22:55
  So we'll allow the fantasy of, well, that acts just chop down a
• 22:59
  tree. Now it can obviously chop down a
• 23:01
  person. Guy was a genius.
• 23:02
  Really is still. Is best series I've watched a
• 23:04
  long time. Yeah, we're getting to a couple
• 23:06
  more later, buddy. Much later.
• 23:08
  It's summer time, yeah. Maybe I'll.
• 23:10
  Maybe I'll. Well, you taste.
• 23:12
  Yeah. Get us through the summer.
• 23:14
  That's right, I'm OK with summer camp.
• 23:16
  But so I really like that the whole setup allows for that
• 23:19
  opportunity. And no one should have a
• 23:21
  question about reality. And for a person like yourself
• 23:23
  who struggles with that reality, I struggle with reality.
• 23:26
  And for me too, when watching it originally, I was like I am into
• 23:29
  whatever is happening at this point.
• 23:39
  Let's introduce the uses and mees.
• 23:41
  The regular Joes. The non politicians.
• 23:44
  That's right, this diner is owned and operated by Harvey.
• 23:49
  Harvey the man. Yep, my grandfather's.
• 23:52
  Name. Cool, good name.
• 23:53
  I like it. We have Ralphie played by.
• 23:58
  Sean Astin, Mikey himself. Was his name in Lord of the?
• 24:01
  Rings. No, no.
• 24:03
  Goonies. Goonies.
• 24:05
  Yeah, it was in Goonies. So he's firing on all cylinders
• 24:08
  99. He's kind of a guy that was
• 24:10
  disappeared. From the world.
• 24:12
  Good kid, though. And then we have, I want to say
• 24:14
  Mickey Mantel, but it might not be Mickey because it sounds a
• 24:16
  lot like Mickey Mantle. True, because he was in Eight
• 24:19
  Men Out. Well, yeah, playing chess with.
• 24:23
  You tell me because you you know.
• 24:24
  This one, I forget her name, I didn't look it up, but she
• 24:26
  played Tom Cruise's ex-wife in. Minority Report.
• 24:30
  Oh, really? Yeah.
• 24:32
  Catherine Morris. Sounds good to me, honestly, I I
• 24:36
  look that one up. I knew her face.
• 24:38
  But listen, I'll admit it. I'll admit it.
• 24:41
  But you didn't remember it. You looked it up and then you
• 24:43
  forgot. It and she was involved in cold
• 24:45
  case the TV show as being the lead series that was her show
• 24:51
  which I've. Did it ever get hot?
• 24:53
  Uh, no, I some cases did get warm.
• 24:56
  They did warm up. I actually haven't seen it.
• 24:58
  Yeah, it's a TV show. If you really wanna lose
• 25:02
  yourself, in case you're looking at like 8-9, ten seasons.
• 25:04
  Yeah, like a monk. Yeah, I honestly couldn't get
• 25:08
  into that. Yeah, you tried.
• 25:09
  I tried. It didn't.
• 25:09
  It didn't quite take. I didn't give it its full
• 25:11
  chance. But nonetheless, that's her.
• 25:14
  OK, Great. And Katie?
• 25:16
  Yeah. Is that Quebec, French Quebec
• 25:21
  actress maybe. But there's a scene later like,
• 25:23
  I don't know what that is. I liked it.
• 25:26
  Sure, I bet you. Did when she's talking to the
• 25:28
  president, that doesn't sound like Quebec French, but that's
• 25:31
  not important. What is?
• 25:32
  Because I said. It yeah, it's obviously not
• 25:34
  worthy. According to IMDb, she's from
• 25:36
  France. OK, let's not get back.
• 25:39
  That's a big difference, believe you me.
• 25:41
  I think that rounds it out. Don't miss anybody there.
• 25:43
  I think that's everybody small crew.
• 25:45
  Everyone else will obviously touch on because.
• 25:48
  There's Yeah. When you bring in your Secret
• 25:49
  Service, none of these people have real names or faces.
• 25:51
  But the Secret Service is there, the guy with the nuclear
• 25:54
  football who's always right around the corner, it seems,
• 25:56
  from the president. There's a documentary film crew,
• 25:59
  which, again, ties in Ohio. Yeah, Yeah.
• 26:01
  But there are two kind of Co leads, if you will.
• 26:03
  Timothy Hutton is the chief of staff.
• 26:04
  Marshall. Yes, Cola Marsh, if you're on
• 26:06
  that. Level and Sheryl Lee Ralph, who
• 26:11
  plays GAIL, Secretary of State. She's the NSA national security
• 26:15
  advisor. Too many abbreviations to keep
• 26:17
  track. Of So those are your three main
• 26:19
  players and they're the main actors.
• 26:21
  I mean, ultimately there's the names that you might or faces
• 26:23
  that you might recognize. Dexter.
• 26:25
  Yeah, Gales and Dexter. Dexter is the Secret Service
• 26:29
  guy. OK, come on, his Dexter.
• 26:32
  Haven't seen that show. No, he's not in that show.
• 26:34
  Is he in that? Show no.
• 26:35
  Dexter is the guy's name in this movie, The Secret Service?
• 26:39
  His name in the movie is Dexter. Fantastic.
• 26:41
  Yeah. I think it's important.
• 26:43
  It. Is they're just Secret Service
• 26:44
  to you? Yeah, they're all the same.
• 26:46
  Just the face. This guy plays a big.
• 26:49
  Role in the credit where it's due interpreter.
• 26:52
  Yeah, he knows tones. It's important and if I was to
• 26:57
  pick a conversation with one of the regs for me would be the one
• 27:01
  with Pollock talking to. A.
• 27:04
  Tailor, tailor that his name in this.
• 27:06
  Yeah, very good. After some chess tips and
• 27:10
  tricks, they talk about old age security.
• 27:13
  Yeah, that's the thing. Obviously here in Canada as
• 27:15
  well, you were certain age to receive.
• 27:17
  I'm almost there, actually. And they talk about the origins
• 27:21
  of why is 65. Yeah.
• 27:24
  And like, I don't know if that's true.
• 27:25
  It wouldn't surprise me, but that's pretty much when you die,
• 27:29
  so. Yeah, it's like a cheating
• 27:31
  system, right? You're like, Oh yeah, you can
• 27:33
  get it at 65 because you're going to live maybe a couple
• 27:35
  years after. That, yeah, now that is
• 27:37
  equivalent, like he says, to 102, moving it up to 73.
• 27:41
  That's reasonable. Yeah, right.
• 27:43
  That's a person that's 40 or might not seem quite so
• 27:46
  reasonable, but the guy that 60s or 70 even is.
• 27:49
  I'll take it. I don't think anybody's maybe
• 27:51
  actually would extend it, but I do think that the story is
• 27:54
  interesting. And if it is that arbitrary,
• 27:56
  it's funny to me that you would just look at the actual varials
• 27:59
  and go with it. 100 years ago or whatever it was, and now you're
• 28:02
  stuck with it because no one wants to change it because
• 28:04
  again, you'll be disenfranchising.
• 28:06
  Hey everybody that's been racing towards 65 to retire, you got 7
• 28:11
  more years and people would lose their minds.
• 28:14
  The American political system has a really hard time changing
• 28:17
  certain things to be beneficial, not beneficial but to make more
• 28:22
  sense in today like when it's not just them though.
• 28:25
  That's everything that's true, but you talk about like gun laws
• 28:28
  and stuff like that. You want to keep your guns,
• 28:30
  guys. I'm not trying to take that away
• 28:31
  from you. No, but with the invention of
• 28:34
  automatic guns and everything back then, if you walk into an
• 28:38
  office and to shoot people up, you must get exactly there's a
• 28:42
  commercial for that gun control and like that that's update that
• 28:46
  and that we have a hard time even with Internet rules and
• 28:49
  laws like we're just getting to the point was, well, maybe we
• 28:53
  should regulate a little bit so kids aren't killing themselves
• 28:56
  because of social media. You think they're always like
• 28:59
  10-15, sometimes 100 years behind making these small little
• 29:02
  changes to the Constitution because they're all worried
• 29:05
  about we can't know. No, it's got to say exactly the
• 29:07
  same until it benefits them. Otherwise frustrating.
• 29:11
  I bet you're so prone and able to change that I'm sure it's
• 29:15
  frustrating to watch somebody else slow down.
• 29:17
  With the times, buddy. After all that set up, it's 15
• 29:20
  minutes into the movie approximately.
• 29:22
  I feel like we've got a lot of information in that 15, but we
• 29:25
  need a reason why we're watching the movie.
• 29:27
  That's correct. I was starting to wonder.
• 29:29
  Not in a bad way, sure. OK, it's.
• 29:31
  Probably the story, yeah. What are we doing here in the
• 29:33
  diner in Aztec Colorado? And I think they do a pretty
• 29:36
  good job of establishing that what is happening in the Middle
• 29:40
  East is Iraq has invaded Kuwait again.
• 29:43
  Time of year. And that the American
• 29:46
  peacekeeping force has been overrun and likely killed.
• 29:49
  Yeah, about 300 or so. Yeah, was the number.
• 29:52
  That's right. And immediately they're going to
• 29:55
  sanction Iraq and it's going to be a thing.
• 29:57
  But they talk about how there's different sections of the world.
• 30:01
  They're already obligated towards different militaries.
• 30:05
  You know, in China, outside, you know, the Koreans, they're sort
• 30:08
  of dealing with that. So they try and look at the big
• 30:11
  picture and see what's on the table.
• 30:13
  But I thought it's a fascinating reality of these actions
• 30:19
  happening and how fast you have to react to them, sometimes
• 30:24
  without the information, all of it.
• 30:27
  And I thought this was pretty effective again right away.
• 30:31
  Get the hooks in you. Generally speaking, you mean you
• 30:33
  might question how they don't know this first.
• 30:38
  But I think with the setup of the circumstances, the year that
• 30:41
  we're living in, I was like, no, that can happen.
• 30:43
  IBS can have that information before the president.
• 30:46
  They're all focused on the primaries.
• 30:49
  They have a lot on their plate. Exactly.
• 30:51
  So I can see how they might be one or two steps and they do get
• 30:54
  a job of explaining it where they ask questions.
• 30:57
  How did we not know about this? What's going on here?
• 30:59
  The satellite? So these are the questions I
• 31:01
  want to hear and they give me an answer that's satisfactory to
• 31:04
  me. You're going to keep me rolling
• 31:06
  with the punches. Totally.
• 31:08
  That movie is against successful in that aspect of it.
• 31:11
  Because I think for somebody who's already out because of the
• 31:14
  setup, This is why there's no point in watching it further,
• 31:17
  because you're just Michael. This is just stupid, right?
• 31:19
  Yeah, for sure. And I also think that it's
• 31:21
  interesting they don't really dive into this as much as I
• 31:23
  would have liked. But I like that Marshall, as the
• 31:27
  chief of staff, is talking about the political upside if you get
• 31:31
  to be strong on foreign affairs. He talks about how he was
• 31:34
  selected specifically. Pollock does.
• 31:36
  He knows global affairs. He knows what's up.
• 31:39
  That's his jam, right, Right. And so, but Marshall is starts
• 31:41
  talking about how there's a possibility these American
• 31:45
  soldiers that died can be used politically to bolster our
• 31:49
  credibility, as it were, in the polls and so forth.
• 31:52
  That's the nature of the. Game.
• 31:53
  But it's revealed that basically Iraq has tactical, chemical and
• 31:57
  biological weapons are ready to go.
• 31:59
  That's what they're saying. And they could reach Israel,
• 32:03
  Greece and Turkey in about an hour and a half.
• 32:05
  Turkey. Exactly.
• 32:06
  This isn't 99 movies, so we can forgive it for saying Turkey
• 32:10
  Turducken. So that is your setup and then
• 32:16
  his reaction is get the cabinet on their cell phones on
• 32:19
  everything you can. No, not the cell phones, buddy.
• 32:22
  Yeah, gotta be secure here. That's right.
• 32:24
  Can't do on speakerphone. Yes.
• 32:26
  The whole movie takes place on speakerphone for the record,
• 32:29
  but. You know, but through a
• 32:30
  satellite. Exactly.
• 32:31
  Rigged, bounced around sneakers. You know, you got 7 different
• 32:33
  satellite breaks, you're good. But yeah, they have the guards
• 32:37
  at the phone booth because now that's going to be a secure line
• 32:39
  and they're going to talk about looking for a map because the
• 32:43
  president now has to respond, respond.
• 32:47
  So they try nothing. I like how.
• 32:48
  IBS is assuming the White House knows and they're working on it.
• 32:54
  They're literally just finding out now.
• 32:56
  It's like their default answer. Sure, like we know before them,
• 32:58
  but we want to help save a little bit face because they
• 33:02
  need to have a relationship too. Yep, with each other.
• 33:04
  It's very subtle, but it's there.
• 33:05
  What did you think of that address the big speech.
• 33:08
  It's the end of act one and it's 30 minutes into a basically a 90
• 33:11
  minute movie. So we have established the
• 33:13
  characters. We now had your inciting
• 33:15
  incident. And the last sort of button on
• 33:17
  it to me is this speech. Yeah.
• 33:19
  It's a big one, yeah. It even takes Hutton back a
• 33:22
  little bit. Marshall.
• 33:23
  Pollock knows what he's going to do.
• 33:24
  They're offering their suggestions, but he's not
• 33:26
  particularly engaging in it. Yeah, they're saying you gotta
• 33:28
  be presidential. You gonna talk about the
• 33:30
  primary, you talk about the future.
• 33:31
  You know this and that. What you would expect?
• 33:33
  Yeah, sure stuff. But he, I would say, steps it up
• 33:37
  A notch, brings it a little bit further than one would
• 33:39
  anticipate. Now I'm not sure when this idea
• 33:45
  forms inside of him, if it was two years ago, a week ago, 10
• 33:51
  minutes ago, he just waiting for the opportunity, but I don't
• 33:54
  know that aspect of it. But he makes a pretty big with
• 33:59
  his speech is impactful. He drops a bomb, metaphorically
• 34:03
  speaking, on TV, saying that he will respond with a nuclear
• 34:09
  bomb. Yeah, on Baghdad, Yes, And
• 34:11
  you're giving an hour and 20 minutes.
• 34:14
  Yeah, but the duration of the. Movie.
• 34:15
  Exactly. Basically, yeah, to get
• 34:18
  evacuate. Which is not enough time by the
• 34:20
  way. No, I don't know if you know.
• 34:22
  Evacuation people on there, it's everyone's going to lose their
• 34:24
  minds, yeah. So that's not very nice.
• 34:27
  Yeah, they don't seem to care. But this is the thing where they
• 34:29
  talk about how they can't conventionally go in because
• 34:32
  they've got their troops spread out in those three or four
• 34:34
  different places in the world. They can't go in one way, they
• 34:37
  have to go in the other. At least is how it's being
• 34:38
  presented. Even though other means are
• 34:41
  presented throughout the movie, we can get back to the White
• 34:44
  House and we can reset exactly. And we can realign things and we
• 34:50
  can do things a bit more conventionally.
• 34:52
  The Admiral or general or both like well, we can do it other
• 34:56
  ways, but it seems like his mind.
• 34:58
  Immediately made-up made-up and that's and there is 100% and
• 35:03
  that is the thing with this movie and you know, we joked
• 35:06
  about or talked about in the American president about a
• 35:08
  proportional response and is this that and I would suggest
• 35:13
  everyone around him thinks no and you're in a situation where
• 35:18
  he's not conferring with Congress.
• 35:19
  He's not using any of the sort of lines of command.
• 35:22
  Exactly. He is the single voice in the
• 35:25
  matter, which comes in later too, well, before it's time.
• 35:28
  Yeah. And I think that's ultimately a
• 35:29
  lot of the stuff that we're wrestling with right now.
• 35:31
  So I found it interesting in these kind of parallels where
• 35:35
  just somebody, one person can decide these catastrophic,
• 35:40
  impactful things like dropping a bomb and wiping out a
• 35:44
  civilization. Yeah, that was like, Oh my gosh,
• 35:48
  this is Trump flipped. Like favorite movie?
• 35:49
  Yeah. So anyway, I just thought that
• 35:51
  was an interesting connection point and I thought riveting
• 35:55
  television if I weren't living it.
• 35:58
  I think that's the problem I have with the movie, and it's
• 36:00
  not really a fault with the movie, it's just how it makes me
• 36:04
  feel, you know? I like issues with glory days be
• 36:07
  visiting that life like oh, well, I don't like that.
• 36:10
  I'm not enjoying this because I didn't enjoy that part of my
• 36:13
  life. This.
• 36:14
  I thought about American president, which is hard not to
• 36:16
  at least a little bit. And I thought about Michael
• 36:19
  Douglas really struggling with the fact that he had to kill 1
• 36:24
  janitor. And I love that scene.
• 36:26
  We both loved the movie. It was fantastic experience.
• 36:29
  But if you remember, there's a part of maybe just me or maybe
• 36:33
  us that's like, oh, I wish that was real.
• 36:36
  And I know it's not. And I'm sad about that.
• 36:38
  Oh, that that somebody had the heart to think about the people.
• 36:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:42
  The least presidential thing. Yeah.
• 36:44
  And what this movie made me feel a little bit was helplessness.
• 36:50
  When you have these decision makers, the Prime Minister is
• 36:55
  the president's any leader, they are making these types of
• 36:59
  decisions and there's nothing we can do about.
• 37:01
  It except vote every. Except for vote which.
• 37:05
  That's only 37% of us do so. But I can't vote in the
• 37:10
  American. Election, sure.
• 37:11
  The ripple of that 100% you're. Right, because his decisions,
• 37:14
  I'm not going to name who of course, kills people, takes
• 37:17
  lives. It could be something what we
• 37:19
  think is a very small decision has big ripple effects.
• 37:22
  Totally. And I don't like that feeling of
• 37:25
  watching this in action, seeing these people saying, well, I'm
• 37:29
  going to do this and I'm giving you the reasons.
• 37:31
  And I'm right to do it, yeah. I'm like, oh and then these poor
• 37:35
  people who have nothing to do with anything living their lives
• 37:38
  and this one American will get you killed because of his ego
• 37:43
  because it's a Dick measuring contest like the stupidest
• 37:46
  reasons in the world and you're dead.
• 37:49
  That's what I don't like about this movie.
• 37:52
  And again, it's not a reflection on the storytelling, on the
• 37:55
  characters, the actors. I think that's all pretty solid,
• 37:58
  but I'm like, oh, I don't feel great about that.
• 38:02
  Sure. Yeah.
• 38:03
  Well, I think regardless of the present day allusions, I think
• 38:09
  that that question is something that I wrestled with 26 years
• 38:13
  ago and watching it is the ripple effect of what he decides
• 38:17
  in this little vacuum and how we're supposed to feel about it.
• 38:20
  We'll get to that sort of as it goes on, but.
• 38:22
  It wasn't even elected. Yeah, well, these are the
• 38:24
  crunchy moments of the movie, right?
• 38:26
  Is it? Is it not OK?
• 38:28
  Sorry, crunchy like lettuce on a exactly the cheeseburger.
• 38:32
  You know Ralph. Some crunchy here.
• 38:44
  What I also think is important to know and information for us
• 38:48
  as an audience, what are the options once they maybe hit the
• 38:53
  button and launch the nuclear because we're on a very tight
• 38:58
  window of evacuation or allowing the bad guy.
• 39:02
  Sure, yeah, his name to agree to terms.
• 39:05
  Yeah. And they assume that they can
• 39:08
  just shut it off and it doesn't detonate.
• 39:12
  But there's 2 problems with that.
• 39:14
  I don't know if you picked up on it.
• 39:16
  No one. They shut her down and it just
• 39:18
  drops, doesn't explode. But then you're giving the enemy
• 39:22
  a nuclear warhead. Yeah.
• 39:24
  Which is not a good idea. Not a good idea.
• 39:26
  Or you detonate it somewhere else, but you get something
• 39:30
  called nuclear rain. Radiation of some kind.
• 39:34
  Yeah, you don't want that. So they determine those aren't
• 39:37
  good options. So it raises the stakes a little
• 39:40
  bit. It's like once this thing.
• 39:41
  Launches. Once you commit, you're fully.
• 39:43
  In, you're fully committed. Pollock seems to suggest in his
• 39:47
  rationale that he is betting that Hussein will not let the
• 39:54
  city of Baghdad fall. I think that's literally what he
• 39:56
  says. And he's speaking to NSA GAIL
• 39:59
  and she says this isn't a gamble.
• 40:01
  Like this isn't something trivial.
• 40:04
  And that goes back to a little bit of we're dealing with in the
• 40:06
  world today, which is the triviality of it all, including
• 40:09
  stuff during Desert Storm in the 90s.
• 40:11
  Right now it's video games right now.
• 40:12
  There's a video to watch it now. There's crystal clear images
• 40:17
  coming from the war zone. You know that wasn't the case in
• 40:19
  70s with Vietnam and certainly before.
• 40:21
  Yeah, problem is you know if it's real or not, but otherwise.
• 40:24
  Then you did because then you did for sure.
• 40:25
  It wasn't a but now it's hard to know it so much so it's it's a
• 40:29
  fascinating world and how heavy in the stakes seem to be here.
• 40:34
  And it seems that Pollock isn't OK.
• 40:36
  Yeah, they keep trying to get a read on him and it's ultimately
• 40:39
  just saying I'm certain that. This is the deal.
• 40:41
  I'm doing it. And the reaction to that?
• 40:43
  Hussein and Iraq wants to get on the phone.
• 40:46
  Get on the horn the. Hell's going on now?
• 40:48
  You've established a number of times.
• 40:50
  You're taking Arabic lessons. I am three times a week.
• 40:52
  So did you understand anything that was being?
• 40:55
  Said not a clue. B.
• 40:58
  Could you translate anything that was said?
• 41:00
  Could you read it? Could.
• 41:02
  You had they actually used it because all we're getting as an
• 41:05
  audience is the English version. So I wasn't even given the
• 41:08
  opportunity to show off what I've learned.
• 41:11
  I can read Arabic and I can say those words.
• 41:15
  OK. I can speak Arabic to you.
• 41:17
  Yeah. Some letters, let me tell you,
• 41:19
  are pretty tough. Yeah.
• 41:21
  Do they certain movements in your throat and your tongue?
• 41:24
  And I struggle with about two specific ones.
• 41:27
  That would have been your strong suit I.
• 41:28
  Thought, well, you think about my Klingon.
• 41:30
  With your tongue and your throat.
• 41:31
  Especially in high school. But my Klingon, you think, would
• 41:33
  help me? Yeah, you kind of have that
• 41:35
  basis. But it's slightly different.
• 41:39
  OK, slightly different than Klingon.
• 41:43
  Uh, but I don't know what I'm saying.
• 41:45
  I haven't learned what the words mean outside of a couple.
• 41:48
  Like common ones, not swear ones.
• 41:50
  Like you would learn or no probably.
• 41:52
  Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's fair.
• 41:55
  I thought this scene was excellent.
• 41:57
  I thought Dexter. Dexter the man.
• 41:59
  Yeah, He steps up. The Secret Service guy, how he's
• 42:02
  relaying that information, not only the language but the tone,
• 42:06
  I thought was, it's a small thing, but I really sold the
• 42:09
  scene for. Me, it feels real.
• 42:11
  It feels like this is happening in real time.
• 42:12
  It feels like he's listening in real time and he feels like he's
• 42:15
  translating in real. Time.
• 42:16
  Wait. Nope.
• 42:16
  Nope. He's left the phone.
• 42:17
  Yeah, he's not there. Hold on.
• 42:19
  Bollocks. Have this big ranch.
• 42:20
  Yeah. Now he's not even.
• 42:22
  Listening. Yeah, it's perfect because the
• 42:25
  president assumes, I believe, that his voice and rhetoric is
• 42:31
  the most important part of the conversation because he's got
• 42:34
  the weapon and what that kind of pissing contest like you're
• 42:39
  saying or the Dick measuring or. Whatever, take your pick.
• 42:41
  It is effectively these two leaders 1 upping one another to
• 42:46
  the point where one just says hang up the phone, fuck you.
• 42:49
  He says he will not negotiate with the Jew.
• 42:51
  Yeah, well, that's a bigger issue, and we can get into that.
• 42:53
  Yeah. But just the mere fact that you
• 42:55
  would hang up on the president in the midst of all of this is
• 43:00
  audacious and I think makes for compelling watching.
• 43:04
  And the president's response as a Jewish person, I'm sure feels
• 43:10
  ill at ease or makes the whole situation an extra layer of
• 43:15
  discomfort because it isn't just the US versus the Middle East
• 43:19
  which has been going. On forever, it turns a regular
• 43:21
  war into a holy war. I think that's something I know,
• 43:24
  but to articulate it that way, I never really thought about two
• 43:28
  different types of wars. Things are always intermingled,
• 43:31
  sure, but I don't know it's. Just, well, in this instance,
• 43:34
  they even say later, how do you know when to stop, right?
• 43:38
  If you're fighting for God, then when do you stop?
• 43:41
  When God tells you to stop, which is never going to happen.
• 43:44
  No, I mean, God does talk to you.
• 43:46
  We've seen frailty, that's true. Always, always the positive
• 43:49
  message. That's Bill Paxton.
• 43:51
  So I thought that was an interesting kind of conceit for
• 43:53
  this conversation, the ability to say we're getting in over our
• 43:56
  heads. This is Marshall and GAIL both
• 43:59
  approaching him and saying like, you're getting us into something
• 44:03
  bigger and deeper than we are. Ready for Yeah, you're writing a
• 44:07
  check that I'm not sure we can cash.
• 44:10
  That's right. And you throw in the factor that
• 44:12
  he's not elected and a Jewish person.
• 44:15
  And atheist, apparently. Yeah, well, that that comes out
• 44:18
  as part of his oath of office. You know you have to forget.
• 44:21
  About it, Is that a real thing? The official rule is you're
• 44:24
  separating church and state. And so yes, technically it's
• 44:27
  it's a rule. Because I thought the president
• 44:28
  was always at the front row at church, like he's the Christian
• 44:31
  guy, like that was a thing. It can be.
• 44:34
  I remember something when we watched Contact where they
• 44:37
  wouldn't back Jodie Foster's character because she was an
• 44:41
  atheist. Like she didn't believe that's
• 44:43
  right. So she didn't get the spot on
• 44:45
  the spaceship and they gave it to somebody else, and that was a
• 44:49
  big conflict. That's what I remember from that
• 44:51
  movie. So I just wasn't sure if he was
• 44:53
  just blowing smoke up Katie's. What's the saying?
• 44:58
  Of her chimney. Or if that was a real thing,
• 45:00
  like he was he being sarcastic or?
• 45:02
  Yeah, I don't know. I mean I.
• 45:02
  Think you actually take an oath of being an atheist?
• 45:05
  Yeah, I think you just don't take an oath, I think is the
• 45:07
  thing here, in theory, a Muslim who thinks that the promised
• 45:11
  land is after death and this is all just a waste of time until
• 45:14
  we get to the promised land of virgins in paradise and you
• 45:19
  know, where you meet all of your family and all that.
• 45:21
  Looking forward to it. Exactly, but it means that the
• 45:24
  decisions you're making today are only reflective of that,
• 45:27
  rather than the present theoretically.
• 45:28
  I do like Katie's response is like, well then you're not
• 45:31
  responsible to anybody. That is one of the cruxes of the
• 45:34
  movie for sure. I thought it was great Canadian
• 45:37
  girl. This is the point in the movie
• 45:38
  where like, what accent is that? Yeah, but I love.
• 45:41
  It yeah, I thought that this section, that particular line,
• 45:44
  there's a couple in this movie that I thought really ground the
• 45:47
  movie. Then I think even though the
• 45:50
  line is subtle, or I should say that actually the line is
• 45:53
  specific, very specific, they don't really make a meal out of
• 45:56
  it. The movie isn't that question,
• 45:58
  but setting it up and stating it in that manner I think allows a
• 46:02
  little resonance for the movie to really hammer at home some of
• 46:07
  the ideologies in the movie, and I think that's important.
• 46:10
  It's never, ever. Too on the nose with anything
• 46:13
  even like, his character himself.
• 46:15
  Like, what kind of person is this President Emerson like?
• 46:19
  Is he off his rocker? Harvey thinks so.
• 46:22
  Yeah. I don't think you get, like a
• 46:24
  psychiatrist to say it, but this president is insane.
• 46:28
  I'm like, I never got that. Yeah.
• 46:31
  But his decisions could lend to that.
• 46:34
  I think he would tell you that it's all rationed and reasoned,
• 46:38
  and I think he could convey that.
• 46:40
  And even when he did the speech, he said, well, peace is
• 46:44
  subjective. Like I'm offering here a
• 46:47
  solution doesn't sound very peaceful, but it could be
• 46:51
  construed as that in a way. Yeah, the idea is, yeah, like
• 46:53
  you, you're the short term pain for the long term gain, right.
• 46:57
  Which is to say, sure, it's bloody in its glory and it's
• 47:00
  gruesome today. But if what I do today means
• 47:03
  they'll never be another war in the history of our lives.
• 47:05
  And that's a are you prepared to sacrifice whomever is the
• 47:10
  casualties involved? And that I think that's the
• 47:12
  biggest question of this movie. Yeah.
• 47:14
  And I don't know that the movie fully answers that question, but
• 47:17
  that is what these scenes are, I think, trying to.
• 47:21
  To ask, we'll answer it at the end of Qualified.
• 47:24
  That's right. One thing I learned about that
• 47:27
  actually is in marriage, making decisions that are better the
• 47:31
  long term. They might suck for me right
• 47:34
  now, I might lose this, but in the long run it's better.
• 47:37
  Sure. Cause she's happy.
• 47:40
  Yeah, important thing. Some might argue that it's like,
• 47:42
  have the fight today so that you don't just bottle it up and
• 47:46
  swallow it for 10 years, Bill resentment and then it's like
• 47:49
  this huge catastrophe. Yeah, you can go that way too.
• 47:52
  Right. And I'm not saying right or
• 47:53
  wrong or you or me, but I've certainly been in situations
• 47:56
  where had we nipped this in the bud at the beginning, then we
• 48:01
  would have been in a far better place 10 years, 15 years in when
• 48:04
  you're like, wait a minute. It's a good.
• 48:06
  Point I've hated you for 15 years.
• 48:07
  I never told you I hated you. So now you don't even know that
• 48:10
  I hate, but I can't or whatever, right?
• 48:12
  Are you pissed me off, That thing the other time you said
• 48:14
  you can't take it back. I think there are some things
• 48:17
  that you don't have to the extremities, but everything in
• 48:20
  between you can work on and massage.
• 48:22
  But if you're just swallow it and then bring it up 15 years
• 48:26
  later and like, remember that time you told me to shut the
• 48:28
  fuck up at the carnival? You know, it's like, wow,
• 48:31
  remember that? You remember that I didn't even
• 48:32
  know, right? You're like, yeah, because
• 48:34
  quietly I've hated you every. Day since it's been festering.
• 48:36
  Yeah. Brain tumor.
• 48:37
  Now, so I think that that he goes to his wife to find out are
• 48:42
  you with me? Now if he does this, do you
• 48:44
  think they can come back from that if she doesn't agree?
• 48:46
  Because I get the impression. She doesn't seem to be on board,
• 48:50
  Yeah. Her voice was sexy.
• 48:53
  Liked it. You know who that was?
• 48:56
  Check the credits. Yeah, and it's an.
• 48:59
  Interesting Missus Seinfeld, this is Ochmanek Helen.
• 49:04
  No, it was. Not, but I I like that
• 49:07
  conversation. What the sense did you get from
• 49:09
  him? Did you think she swayed him at?
• 49:12
  All no, what I got from it in particular, his seemingly
• 49:15
  wrestling with the decision with her, he's allowing some level of
• 49:19
  vulnerability because if you listen to him on the phone, if
• 49:22
  you listen to him when talking to GAIL, much different.
• 49:26
  So when he goes to being and he talks about I need you with me,
• 49:30
  don't say that. And his voice is quivering a
• 49:32
  little bit from the emotion of it.
• 49:34
  I thought it was interesting in the movie.
• 49:36
  I think just drops the ball on this particular front.
• 49:38
  Doesn't she compare him to Hitler?
• 49:40
  I'm not your. Ava Braun.
• 49:42
  Ava Braun, Yeah. So the relationship I think, is
• 49:46
  toast for sure. But I think him wrestling with
• 49:48
  it is a scene of the movie that we don't spend enough time on,
• 49:51
  OK? Because it feels like he's
• 49:53
  emotionally wrought in this moment.
• 49:55
  And it actually may trigger what happens after if he's that
• 49:58
  stressed or put out by it. Had she said, honey anything?
• 50:01
  Had she just been more supportive?
• 50:04
  Right, it was a bit of a. Just a bit of a job, obviously,
• 50:08
  you know, realistically, but I think he's looking for that and
• 50:11
  the fact that he doesn't get it might actually exacerbate his
• 50:14
  frustration cause he's looking for someone who's with me and no
• 50:17
  one is, well, screw you all do it, I'm going anyway.
• 50:20
  Even hotter. Yeah, that sounds like a human
• 50:22
  reaction. I think so, right?
• 50:24
  It's a male human. I think it's the same thing.
• 50:26
  We talked about those other countries.
• 50:27
  You gonna bully me and push me around and talk down to me and
• 50:30
  make me feel less? Then I'm going to revolt.
• 50:32
  I'm gonna rise up as best I can. For you, and who cares who
• 50:35
  hurts? Coming U on my favorite scene in
• 50:47
  the movie. It's basically the end of Act 2.
• 50:50
  We can agree on that. Back at a pool table with a
• 50:53
  president and a chief of staff, I thought you might appreciate
• 50:56
  that as a fan of the American president.
• 50:58
  Yeah, big shoes to fill though, Martin.
• 51:00
  Sheen, but they're ultimately looking for the same thing.
• 51:02
  Are you with me? And why aren't you?
• 51:04
  AJ is trying to convince Shepherd of one thing and the
• 51:08
  wrestling between the two, and here we have Pollock and Hutton
• 51:11
  having somewhat similar and he's again looking for validation.
• 51:17
  You're not with me, aren't you? He doesn't get validation, but
• 51:19
  he gets one really good story. Yeah.
• 51:22
  Oppenheimer. Yeah.
• 51:24
  That's what I'm. Seeing Alamos, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 51:26
  for sure. Know what year it was, there's a
• 51:28
  bunch of tests they. Did, yeah.
• 51:29
  It's the testing of the atomic bomb that they end up dropping
• 51:32
  on Hiroshima. And they went well.
• 51:33
  Contests for Tesco, sure, but he's. 1000 mile crater in the
• 51:39
  middle of the desert, evaporating a tower.
• 51:42
  And the way he describes that, very detailed and he talks about
• 51:45
  the steel building, tower tower, and that just basically
• 51:51
  evaporate. Yeah, evaporated.
• 51:53
  And that's not easy to do evaporation.
• 51:55
  You've tried. Well, I did vape for a bit.
• 51:58
  It wasn't quite the same thing. That speech resonated with me.
• 52:02
  So if I'm on the other side of things like, Oh yeah, that's a
• 52:05
  big deal, Yeah. And that's just a mosquito bite
• 52:08
  of what you're about to do. Yeah.
• 52:10
  That landed with. Me.
• 52:12
  The second-half of this speech, I think is the one that
• 52:14
  resonates deeper to me, certainly, and I think to the
• 52:16
  movie, which is identifying Baghdad as where the Garden of
• 52:22
  Eden was. That's right.
• 52:23
  And what I found interesting about that is you're speaking to
• 52:29
  a Jewish person about a circumstance with Muslim people
• 52:33
  using a Christian metaphor, basis theology or.
• 52:38
  Right, Yeah. So I think it's interesting that
• 52:40
  he uses that context to explain that the Garden of Eden was in
• 52:45
  Iraq, and he pressures the president to and says what
• 52:51
  you're doing is your ending civilization in the same place
• 52:56
  that civilization began. For some people.
• 52:59
  Sure, but to him, and that is the crux of the movie for me, I
• 53:03
  don't believe in God at all, and I think it's all a bunch of
• 53:06
  craziness. So the idea that line can have
• 53:10
  any resonance on me, let alone anybody else, I think says
• 53:15
  something about not only the story that's got us here an hour
• 53:19
  in. And the reality of that, true or
• 53:23
  not, again, doesn't make a difference to me.
• 53:25
  The idea of that in the movie is presenting it as that.
• 53:29
  I think it is a really powerful way to end and ratchet up that
• 53:33
  last gasp of will you listen to this?
• 53:37
  If you're not gonna listen to this, I don't think you're gonna
• 53:39
  listen to anything. This is.
• 53:40
  This like the big play to me, like think about the
• 53:42
  consequences here. And it's a line I thought about
• 53:45
  since I saw the movie. It's resonated that long.
• 53:47
  I'm just surprised that you actually took the podcast host
• 53:51
  oath. Don't believe we don't want to
• 53:54
  bring that into this. Sure, it's been tough for me.
• 53:57
  I respect that. So this to say, that's my
• 54:01
  favorite line of the movie. Really powerful way to end what
• 54:04
  ultimately is the second act and move us forward into really
• 54:08
  decision time because the next wave of action in the movie
• 54:13
  really starts to amp things U. Yeah, we get Hafez Omari on the
• 54:18
  telly and it starts out as if they're backing down, but it
• 54:23
  humbles them to say we are going to pull out our missiles.
• 54:26
  They have them scattered in certain areas.
• 54:30
  I don't map. They point them out.
• 54:31
  Yeah, I don't have the logistics of it.
• 54:33
  But the point is they are targeting New York.
• 54:36
  Australia came up. Israel.
• 54:39
  Israel. Yeah, that's a big one.
• 54:40
  Other NATO states, US cannot allow Israel to get touched.
• 54:43
  We know that. Sure.
• 54:45
  And that takes this whole conflict to pretty high level
• 54:50
  when you're dealing with. 2/3 of the global powers.
• 54:53
  Yeah, when New York could be wiped out, Washington DC came
• 54:58
  up. Makes this decision a lot more
• 55:02
  difficult I would think. Yeah, What's funny to me about
• 55:06
  that? Not funny.
• 55:06
  But the reality is that once again, Marshall, having just
• 55:10
  made that speech, immediately starts talking about the
• 55:13
  political upside we can sacrifice.
• 55:16
  So Israel and Turkish lies. Not the American ones.
• 55:20
  That's politics for you right there.
• 55:22
  If you're still doing this, I gotta be on your side, right?
• 55:24
  Yep, that's that'll get in line. And this prompts a phone call.
• 55:29
  See if we can work things out. Yeah, sure.
• 55:31
  Ceasefire. Yeah, Hussein's back on the
• 55:33
  line. I don't know if they had to dial
• 55:35
  9 to get out it connected. And I think, my friend, this is
• 55:40
  a really reasonable offer. OK, Even more reasonable than
• 55:44
  last week in Mad Max 2. Mr. Humongous, I'll give you a
• 55:48
  passage. I'll give you all these things.
• 55:49
  We just want a little gasoline. Yeah, what's the big deal?
• 55:53
  We'll release all these hostages.
• 55:56
  Everyone's a winner. It's not unlike what these guys
• 55:59
  are offering, actually pretty close.
• 56:00
  We're going to freeze gas prices.
• 56:02
  Yeah, Barrels. They offer a lot to deescalate
• 56:06
  this. The only thing they're unwilling
• 56:08
  to do is remove the troops. Whatever they're doing in
• 56:10
  Kuwait. The original yes issue.
• 56:12
  Yep. And just like that, Emerson's
• 56:16
  like no deal and hangs up. Well, not just hangs up.
• 56:20
  There's a whole sequence of slams, the receiver down the the
• 56:24
  Iraqi president is on and on and on.
• 56:27
  We have the power. We have the power.
• 56:28
  We have the power which, as we're establishing in modern
• 56:32
  times, it turns out the Strait of Hormuz, whomever controls
• 56:37
  that, has the power to disrupt an entire global economy.
• 56:41
  Seemingly that's an issue. Yeah, let's make some more
• 56:44
  passages. It's really shocking that that
• 56:46
  level of power can still be harnessed in such a small piece,
• 56:49
  and how effective and how much the global economy is still
• 56:53
  based on oil and gas, considering conflicts in this
• 56:57
  part of the world have existed for a millennia, not just
• 57:01
  between the US, between themselves.
• 57:02
  There's just so much conflict in that area.
• 57:04
  And it's so narrow. Yes, it's crazy.
• 57:08
  Pollack at the end delivers his I have the match and slams the
• 57:12
  phone down. Kind of a mixed metaphor of the
• 57:16
  power of the match doesn't seem. To it's a little heavy for me.
• 57:19
  But they're saying we control the oil, which means we control
• 57:21
  you. So if you say I have the match
• 57:22
  means I'm gonna blow up your fucking.
• 57:24
  Oil, I get it. I just, it's for me.
• 57:26
  It didn't sit with that. Yeah, I moved on from it pretty
• 57:30
  quick. It didn't leave a real bad taste
• 57:32
  in my mouth. But however, can't win them all
• 57:37
  right? Not movie is not perfect, is not
• 57:39
  perfect. Sure, as many on IMDb would say
• 57:41
  it is probably. That's right, Ralphie has a
• 57:43
  perfect plan. Though Ralphie decides this is
• 57:46
  the time. This guy should run for office.
• 57:49
  So he probably did. Really.
• 57:51
  In 2015, it turns out. A version of this guy.
• 57:54
  Krispy Kreme then, Motherfuckers.
• 57:57
  This is the only instance where it felt a little contrived.
• 58:01
  He's yelling and screaming, OK, here we go.
• 58:04
  He's going to talk to the president.
• 58:06
  But you know, Ashton delivers a lot of racist stuff.
• 58:10
  Yeah. Did you take notes?
• 58:13
  Sketchy gonna make it chocolate You're the beginning but I
• 58:16
  didn't want. To I appreciate that.
• 58:18
  That's right. These terms, yeah.
• 58:20
  But you're none of those. I don't have a code word for
• 58:23
  stand up guy. Appreciate that.
• 58:24
  I hate this scene because of the same.
• 58:27
  It is a little contrived. It is also very 2000s.
• 58:30
  It strikes me as very kind of browy in a way that is just
• 58:34
  uncomfortable. Probably.
• 58:35
  Accurate though. But sadly, kind of accurate.
• 58:37
  Still is, maybe I don't. Know to a certain section of the
• 58:40
  world probably yeah you coming up with euphemisms and ways to.
• 58:43
  I mean, these are the people who are voting for.
• 58:46
  I guess particular people, to be honest, Ralphie is probably the
• 58:49
  secretary of defence right now. Like a guy like that is probably
• 58:52
  in this space. Hmm.
• 58:54
  Yeah, sadly. And while we didn't necessarily
• 58:57
  elect him, we elected the people that appointed him.
• 58:59
  And that's a problem that we not, we didn't do anything
• 59:02
  Canadians. We had nothing to do with it.
• 59:04
  Emerson didn't love his choice of words.
• 59:07
  No. Turned out pretty good for
• 59:08
  Ralphie. It's pretty funny line and makes
• 59:10
  a good sense to me. Yeah, much like the people who
• 59:13
  save the world in Armageddon, Ralphie doesn't have to pay tax
• 59:17
  ever again. That's true.
• 59:18
  It's worth everything. I guess if you could just save
• 59:20
  taxes, you only spent a while since you've paid some taxes,
• 59:23
  that's. True, I live with an accountant
• 59:25
  and my taxes aren't done. Yeah.
• 59:26
  What's up with that? I know she's not tax account,
• 59:28
  she knows how to do it. It's tough to do in a tax income
• 59:30
  tax when you don't have any income.
• 59:32
  True, should be really quick. But he only paid 3000.
• 59:34
  Yeah that's nothing. I feel like we were paying like
• 59:37
  almost 3000 a month in taxes. You have my taxes are like,
• 59:41
  yeah. Crazy.
• 59:42
  Yeah, tough. Break but I'm actually like the
• 59:44
  most pro tax person I've ever met.
• 59:46
  I believe fully in paying taxes. Good, you should.
• 59:49
  I mean, if you're using it to build better roads, yeah, Yeah.
• 59:52
  I mean, it's not like we have any potholes.
• 59:54
  Well, I. Think you don't drive can go a
• 59:56
  lot of different places like potholes are pretty.
• 59:58
  Low on my scale, you know, But yeah, now even though he
• 1:00:01
  declined the deal, they still have to deal with the issue of
• 1:00:05
  the reality still happening, right?
• 1:00:07
  Yeah. That the potential retaliation
• 1:00:09
  if you're a missile, goes into our airspace, the plane that has
• 1:00:13
  the. That's what I meant.
• 1:00:15
  You didn't let me finish. Finish that Will.
• 1:00:20
  Initiate their attack 23. Missiles.
• 1:00:24
  And for some people, it's important to where these came
• 1:00:27
  from. Yeah, not for everybody.
• 1:00:29
  And this is where I think the movie starts to lose me.
• 1:00:31
  OHK, more so this time than in the other.
• 1:00:34
  I think when I first saw it, I was totally engaged the way I
• 1:00:36
  loved all of it and my memories of it were very positive.
• 1:00:39
  Third act is third actor with a little bit, a little.
• 1:00:41
  And it starts here, which is they make a big point.
• 1:00:44
  Don't do anything offensive. Where did you get the missiles?
• 1:00:48
  They got them from you. And there's all of this backroom
• 1:00:51
  stuff when the decision is made to send the B2 to Iraq like
• 1:00:56
  we're committing. One of the best bees.
• 1:00:59
  Second best bee? Really.
• 1:01:00
  They don't use one anymore. Yeah, didn't take.
• 1:01:02
  Then Emerson asked the chief of staff and the NSA to go outside.
• 1:01:07
  I figured smoke break, Sure I have.
• 1:01:09
  No reason at this point to wonder why that happened.
• 1:01:11
  And as I said when I watched the movie The first time, it made no
• 1:01:13
  like, oh wait. But what happens really, to
• 1:01:16
  distract from the fact that they're outside of the diner is
• 1:01:19
  Harve. Oh, loses it a little bit.
• 1:01:21
  Well, you know, he tries to talk to the president earlier and
• 1:01:25
  he's cut off. I thought at some point he was
• 1:01:28
  going to be the man of reason, actually.
• 1:01:29
  OK, ironically enough. But but Ralphie was the one that
• 1:01:33
  got time on the night. He did get time on the mic.
• 1:01:35
  He's Sean Astin. Yeah, he's Mikey, so it's his
• 1:01:38
  time. So yeah, they went in a
• 1:01:39
  different direction than I expected.
• 1:01:42
  I didn't see this coming at all. No out of the loop.
• 1:01:45
  I thought the blue. I had no idea it was coming.
• 1:01:47
  Either shot well, I think certainly fits in the movie.
• 1:01:50
  I buy it. My only question was, and you
• 1:01:52
  may have already answered it, is where did the suitcase guy come
• 1:01:55
  from originally? Travels with them always,
• 1:01:57
  always. OK, that's what I wasn't sure
• 1:01:59
  about because there was no situation coming in, no?
• 1:02:01
  So why would this suitcase guy be traveling with him during
• 1:02:04
  primaries? You don't know if you're the
• 1:02:06
  president. You always.
• 1:02:07
  Gotta buy? I suppose so.
• 1:02:09
  Football. If that's the way it is, then
• 1:02:11
  that's fine. I mean, they acknowledge who he
• 1:02:12
  is, really, and they put him there.
• 1:02:14
  But yeah, he's there for that reason.
• 1:02:15
  OK. And it helps the movie.
• 1:02:17
  Yeah. Doesn't help him out.
• 1:02:19
  No, no. Didn't work out.
• 1:02:21
  Doesn't make it. That's called a question.
• 1:02:22
  Some of the. This is not a big diner.
• 1:02:25
  That's a pretty big gun Secret Service suite.
• 1:02:28
  It's a bit of a let down. I'm not here to nitpick.
• 1:02:30
  No, but. There's a lot of things going
• 1:02:32
  on, so. Yeah, sure.
• 1:02:34
  Yeah, I can see how you pull up. It just seems odd.
• 1:02:36
  But again, I don't mind the scene.
• 1:02:37
  I think it's fine. But now because he's dead, they
• 1:02:40
  need the code. Anyway, Bosco, I think it's the
• 1:02:43
  code, right? Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  And he gets it from, I want to say, a reluctant Admiral or
• 1:02:50
  general. General, I think probably that's
• 1:02:53
  what one of them. But yeah, he resigns.
• 1:02:56
  Yeah, he's like, I'll give it to you, but I don't want any part
• 1:02:58
  of. This.
• 1:02:58
  What do you think about that decision?
• 1:02:59
  I love it. It's like I'm doing it because I
• 1:03:01
  have to. That's it.
• 1:03:02
  But I'm pointing out that I'm not.
• 1:03:04
  I'm not comfortable with it, I don't appreciate it and I don't
• 1:03:07
  condone it. I'm done.
• 1:03:09
  But is there a world where he should have just not given the?
• 1:03:12
  Code, yeah, if it were like illegal, right?
• 1:03:15
  You can say things like as a military person, if you tell me
• 1:03:18
  to murder, you know, shoot this guy, right?
• 1:03:21
  I can refuse that order. But I think there's a pretty
• 1:03:24
  long line of things that are like, I don't have the say in
• 1:03:27
  this. Yeah, and I get that, but at
• 1:03:29
  what point, and this is a big thing with the movie, is where
• 1:03:32
  morals supersede law or the rules.
• 1:03:37
  And that's a pretty common issue over decades and years and
• 1:03:40
  centuries in military. You following orders, you have
• 1:03:44
  that. That's driven into you.
• 1:03:46
  For the command. For a reason, and this is the
• 1:03:48
  reason why they do. That unit core God country, if
• 1:03:51
  you recall from A few good men. There you go, right?
• 1:03:53
  And this is where I'm like, well, I don't agree with it, but
• 1:03:57
  it's just me. It's a little guy.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah, had you been in the military or cadets growing up,
• 1:04:02
  you might. Would have washed out a wall.
• 1:04:05
  For sure, but that's the code that they live by.
• 1:04:07
  That's Jessup in A few good minutes.
• 1:04:09
  The same, right? And I believe that you would do
• 1:04:13
  this. I believe you would give the
• 1:04:15
  code as part of your duty and you would resign as part of your
• 1:04:19
  morality. I just don't know if that that's
• 1:04:21
  the order. Yeah, I just don't know if
• 1:04:23
  resigning is enough from reality.
• 1:04:24
  Like, I don't know. I would sleep at night saying,
• 1:04:26
  well, I did the moral thing and resigned.
• 1:04:28
  Yeah. Those people are dead.
• 1:04:29
  Don't give a shit that you were resigned.
• 1:04:31
  Who cares? You retired.
• 1:04:33
  That doesn't do anything. Had you not give him the code,
• 1:04:36
  that means something, yes. So I think that's BS, Sure.
• 1:04:39
  But I do believe that he would give the code, yes.
• 1:04:41
  Yeah. I'm just speaking for myself.
• 1:04:43
  So it fits the film for sure. It's believable.
• 1:04:55
  What I like, and it's a bit of a slow burn, but I like that the
• 1:04:58
  diners attitude. You had Ralphie on his side,
• 1:05:01
  right? Go, go.
• 1:05:02
  I don't care. Then he flips the switch is now
• 1:05:04
  he's against it. Oh, this is all before I found
• 1:05:06
  out that he doesn't believe in God.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah, it just takes 1 little thing and look, No, no, no, no.
• 1:05:10
  Sure, like a nitpick in a movie that will derail the entire
• 1:05:12
  appreciation of the movie. He represents that.
• 1:05:14
  Yeah, yeah, 1 little scene. He's a human nitpick, but.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah, but I'd be getting completely plausible.
• 1:05:23
  I mean, this is reality, much like we're living it.
• 1:05:26
  And let's stop with the American stuff.
• 1:05:28
  Even if you look at Canadian politics, we have party
• 1:05:32
  defectors. You were voted in as a
• 1:05:33
  conservative or crossers, and now I'm gonna cross the floor
• 1:05:36
  and become a liberal. Well, I voted for you to do a
• 1:05:39
  certain thing that you're not doing.
• 1:05:41
  Why did I bother voting for you? So I'll do that.
• 1:05:44
  That's the word. I voted for this person because
• 1:05:46
  they said they would do anything and they never do what they say
• 1:05:48
  they're going to do anyway. So what's?
• 1:05:50
  The well, that's in cynical view of politics.
• 1:05:51
  I think they absolutely do some of the things.
• 1:05:54
  I'm still waiting for those potholes to get fixed.
• 1:05:56
  Yeah, sure. That's not federal.
• 1:05:57
  Though I emailed the wrong guy. That's your problem, Marty.
• 1:06:00
  About that? Damn.
• 1:06:01
  It so the fact that the residents with oh shit I thought
• 1:06:05
  I voted for one thing and I'm getting something else is
• 1:06:07
  something we all have dealt with at some point or another.
• 1:06:10
  What I think is interesting is, much like World War 2, is nobody
• 1:06:14
  seems to notice or care until it comes back on them.
• 1:06:18
  Until it affects you, that's specifically, and everyone's
• 1:06:22
  guilty of that. 100%. Of it, some more than others,
• 1:06:25
  but yeah, for. Sure.
• 1:06:25
  And it's not about civilizations, not about race,
• 1:06:28
  it's not about gender, it's not about anything.
• 1:06:29
  I said it before, when you are the insider, it's very easy to
• 1:06:34
  point and laugh at the outsider. But under almost every
• 1:06:38
  circumstance, at some point, if you've continued down that line,
• 1:06:41
  you become the. Outsider, you're inside.
• 1:06:43
  Now you're outside. Chilly.
• 1:06:45
  And that's what happens to me in this diner is that Ralphie's on
• 1:06:48
  team one until, wait a minute, now you're coming at me.
• 1:06:52
  They say, you know, you were never elected and you made a
• 1:06:53
  choice based on your ego. And then Pollocks, like, trust
• 1:06:56
  me, trust me, it's OK, OK. And bombs are flying.
• 1:07:00
  It's happening. So I feel.
• 1:07:01
  Bad for that couple. They're just trying to get hold
• 1:07:03
  of kid. Yeah, Dexter doesn't want.
• 1:07:05
  Anything He wants that phone. Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  Does not want him to have that phone.
• 1:07:08
  That's right. But I get it.
• 1:07:09
  Depends on which way the winds blowing too.
• 1:07:11
  Like how you feel about a certain person.
• 1:07:13
  Like. Well, now it's blowing this way.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah. I do wanna go back to something
• 1:07:16
  I'd mentioned just before that about the Admiral.
• 1:07:19
  Sorry, General. Because now we have the pilots.
• 1:07:23
  Yes. Cold feet.
• 1:07:25
  Yeah. Not feeling it.
• 1:07:26
  They're the ones dropping the bomb, Generals.
• 1:07:29
  Given the code, which I bet you the pilots wish he hadn't.
• 1:07:32
  That's right. Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  But now they have to hit that big red button and you can hear
• 1:07:39
  their voice. The president says something
• 1:07:41
  they've heard before. It's not you dropping the bomb.
• 1:07:44
  It's me. If I'm the pilot, I'm going to
• 1:07:47
  turn around. You could feel or hear in their
• 1:07:49
  voice the wrestling and the dialogue itself.
• 1:07:52
  They say as much and I like that, they said.
• 1:07:54
  That's an argument I've heard before, which is to say that
• 1:07:57
  doesn't make them feel any better.
• 1:07:58
  Still going to do it. Though Yep, they did.
• 1:08:00
  They did. So that's it.
• 1:08:02
  It confirms the B12 is entered Iraq.
• 1:08:05
  The B2. Sorry.
• 1:08:05
  Yeah, 12 shot is what I had this.
• 1:08:07
  Morning. It's good.
• 1:08:09
  The B2 is crossed. The rocky Airspace 23 missiles
• 1:08:13
  are launched and we have confirmed the detonation in
• 1:08:18
  Baghdad. Was there any point in this
• 1:08:20
  movie where you thought the president was going to change
• 1:08:22
  his mind? I thought, yes, the first time.
• 1:08:27
  And then honestly, in my memory, I got the ending mix up.
• 1:08:32
  I thought that everything didn't detonate.
• 1:08:35
  All of this build up and nothing blew up.
• 1:08:37
  OK, Not even Baghdad. Yeah.
• 1:08:39
  And that's part of why in my head I didn't like the ending
• 1:08:42
  because I thought, oh, they copped out.
• 1:08:44
  And then watching it this time, I have different issues with the
• 1:08:46
  ending. Oh, interesting.
• 1:08:49
  They didn't come out. They did not.
• 1:08:51
  At least on that side of. That we are now Privy to what I
• 1:08:55
  think was the conversation outside.
• 1:08:57
  Yeah, letting them know that the missiles from Iraq are all a
• 1:09:01
  bunch of Duts, for a lack of better term.
• 1:09:04
  I don't know the scientifical term.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah. And there might hit someone in
• 1:09:07
  the head, Yeah. Could be some damage.
• 1:09:10
  Some damage, yeah, but significantly less now.
• 1:09:13
  He's known this for at least. As soon as he found out that the
• 1:09:16
  missiles that were dropped or that were being shot.
• 1:09:19
  For France post 96. So that was the point where he
• 1:09:23
  knew. He's in safe.
• 1:09:24
  Territory good to go this have this conversation.
• 1:09:27
  Yeah, ratcheted up even more and.
• 1:09:28
  More. Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  OK, Alright, that makes sense. I love that conversation with
• 1:09:31
  the French Prime Minister. I don't know, phone voices in
• 1:09:34
  this movie. Bang.
• 1:09:35
  On Yeah, it's a good deal, you know, he says fear is the
• 1:09:39
  nation's can't. Just speaking to the nation
• 1:09:40
  again, talks about how they sabotage the bombs and this is
• 1:09:45
  what the world is right now, which is we are the mightiest
• 1:09:48
  military in the world and we can show it and I just proved it.
• 1:09:53
  So like they say right the very beginning, try me.
• 1:09:56
  Do not think you can pick a fight with the US because we
• 1:09:59
  will destroy. You We have the worst education,
• 1:10:01
  but we have a big military. Yeah, that's where the money
• 1:10:04
  goes. And then decides to retire.
• 1:10:06
  He's not going to run for. President, I didn't like that.
• 1:10:08
  I don't know. To me, it undercuts everything,
• 1:10:11
  the whole movie, like you're the leader, stick by it and that's
• 1:10:14
  it. And so it's a different cop out.
• 1:10:16
  Isn't my point the worst cop out?
• 1:10:18
  Yeah, the fact that they dropped the bomb makes for more
• 1:10:21
  interesting storytelling, but I think the movie doesn't seem to
• 1:10:25
  have the sort of strength of its convictions.
• 1:10:27
  It's a wrestling to drop it, or not enough of a wrestling to
• 1:10:30
  drop it. The consequences are
• 1:10:33
  nonexistent. That's the issue, that now that
• 1:10:35
  you're saying this, there's no consequences for him.
• 1:10:37
  There's no consequence to the US, at least in the moment,
• 1:10:40
  because all those bombs didn't go off.
• 1:10:41
  I'm just going to retire. What are you going to?
• 1:10:43
  Do and I'm out someone else's problem to clean up and the
• 1:10:47
  country is going to I think you may have alluded to it earlier,
• 1:10:49
  the country is going to pay for this 24 ever.
• 1:10:53
  Yeah, the whole idea was this is the bombed end all, like the war
• 1:10:57
  end all wars. But really all you're doing is
• 1:11:00
  instead of having small attacks, small attacks, small attacks,
• 1:11:03
  small attack, you have this giant huge big attack.
• 1:11:05
  You don't have a big attack for maybe 10-15 years, but it's
• 1:11:09
  going to be big and it's going to be on.
• 1:11:11
  You or it's going to be small, but it'll be consistent and
• 1:11:14
  throughout. Because what ends up happening
• 1:11:16
  is you've destroyed Iraq. Baghdad, sure.
• 1:11:18
  But who are Iraq's allies in the Middle East?
• 1:11:21
  They're all over the. World and if they hate the USA
• 1:11:24
  ending civilization where civilization began.
• 1:11:26
  I don't think any country. Would right, who wants to be in
• 1:11:29
  support of that? And so now you're gonna end up
• 1:11:31
  potentially with a situation where a some level of a world
• 1:11:35
  global revolt. Against one country.
• 1:11:37
  Against one country that may not be able to destroy them with a
• 1:11:41
  big attack, but you've now just ruined your entire credibility
• 1:11:45
  around the world, not unlike what we're dealing with now.
• 1:11:48
  They're having a hard time getting people to come to follow
• 1:11:51
  along. Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  This use of might and power is positioned in the movie as a bit
• 1:11:56
  of a success. And I think ultimately that's
• 1:12:00
  the wrong message. If the intention of the movie is
• 1:12:02
  to say rah, rah, we did it. I don't know that the intention
• 1:12:07
  is there necessarily. Don't know, I don't think it.
• 1:12:09
  I really don't know what the. Whole.
• 1:12:11
  But he feels smug when he leaves.
• 1:12:12
  Yeah, he's got his cigar. He smokes it.
• 1:12:15
  Yeah. He's insane.
• 1:12:15
  Like, mission accomplished. I did a thing.
• 1:12:18
  I don't know that that is a positive.
• 1:12:20
  It's 100% not a positive. But I think the movie wants us.
• 1:12:23
  To think that's the question and I don't have that answer either.
• 1:12:26
  What was the purpose of this writer, this director?
• 1:12:30
  This is a rah rah rah and we won the America.
• 1:12:32
  We did something big. We we run the show here or are
• 1:12:37
  we supposed to get the undercurrent of this president
• 1:12:41
  was a sociopath? Sure it was a terrible person,
• 1:12:45
  let his ego get the best of them and we all pay you the price and
• 1:12:49
  made terrible decisions in order to for what gain right?
• 1:12:51
  Does that conveyed? Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:12:54
  So in the end, I think it derails a little bit because
• 1:12:56
  it's a little too easy with the we knew that the bombs weren't
• 1:13:00
  going to go off, so we were able to destroy civilization
• 1:13:02
  consequence free. That's something that I think
• 1:13:05
  has changed in 25 years because when I first watched it, I don't
• 1:13:08
  know that I was ever. I've been never a raw, raw.
• 1:13:11
  This was great, but particularly the you got one over on them
• 1:13:16
  probably sat a little bit better than than now because again
• 1:13:21
  we're dealing with a pre 911. Worlds it's part of.
• 1:13:24
  That same festering distrust and mistrust of the US in that world
• 1:13:29
  in that time frame that triggered the events of
• 1:13:32
  September 11th to begin with. I think it's tough for a movie
• 1:13:36
  to wrap up under any circumstances in that set when
• 1:13:41
  you're contained to that diner. I don't know if you're trying to
• 1:13:46
  get a message through what a better ending would.
• 1:13:48
  Be so, yeah. I mean, they say China backs
• 1:13:51
  down and the Koreans are OK. So like, mission accomplished,
• 1:13:54
  theoretically OK, but it's just a matter of time, which
• 1:13:57
  ultimately, as we established at the beginning, for 60 years, all
• 1:14:01
  those presidents, I hate war. I don't want it.
• 1:14:04
  That's a bad right. And we just keep going down.
• 1:14:06
  Same mistakes over and over, over.
• 1:14:08
  And to think this over different mistakes, but yeah, it's
• 1:14:10
  mistakes nonetheless. But to think this is because
• 1:14:12
  it's so much bigger that it would be different, I think is a
• 1:14:15
  little short. Right, Exactly.
• 1:14:16
  Yeah, the nuclear deterrence is not necessarily we did it, you
• 1:14:20
  don't. Yeah, which seems to be the
• 1:14:22
  movies message. Yeah.
• 1:14:23
  Well, I mean, it's titled deterrence.
• 1:14:24
  That's right. So that's what it's about.
• 1:14:26
  Deterrence was our shield didn't take.
• 1:14:29
  So not to go on your shelf. David, talk to me about that and
• 1:14:31
  maybe set us up for what's next week.
• 1:14:33
  Yeah, definitely not going on my shelf.
• 1:14:35
  I didn't mind watching it. It's just a movie that doesn't
• 1:14:37
  appeal to me. I don't do it.
• 1:14:40
  We'll do it. I think it's successful and
• 1:14:43
  telling the story in the confines of the diner, though.
• 1:14:46
  So we talked in Great Wall. I asked you was this movie
• 1:14:49
  successful as a light popcorn action movie and you were wrong
• 1:14:54
  because you said it didn't. But it did.
• 1:14:56
  OK, I'll have to check my note. But I would say that this does
• 1:14:59
  succeed in doing that, but I don't want to watch it again.
• 1:15:04
  And I did. Well, I mean, I did, yeah, sure.
• 1:15:06
  And I thought the performances were good.
• 1:15:08
  I thought the storytelling, generally speaking, was good.
• 1:15:13
  It's just not a feeling I want to have.
• 1:15:14
  Sure. And I don't always need a feel
• 1:15:16
  good movie, right? I think you do, but history's
• 1:15:21
  proven. American president.
• 1:15:22
  I really enjoyed it, but there was still a part of me is like,
• 1:15:26
  I don't, but it did so many. It was funny.
• 1:15:29
  It was clever, incredibly likeable.
• 1:15:32
  Michael Douglas Pollock is good in this.
• 1:15:36
  He's a terrible person. I don't like him.
• 1:15:37
  There's no hero. The only hero was Harvey.
• 1:15:40
  And he took it. OK, Wow.
• 1:15:42
  Just can't say hero but again, I don't mind watching it but I
• 1:15:47
  don't have a reason to watch it again.
• 1:15:49
  OK, for you I'm assuming it's. Yeah, it'll stay on the shelf,
• 1:15:53
  but it'll be a long time before I watch it.
• 1:15:55
  I really like the movie. I like Generally speaking and
• 1:15:57
  even the ending. While I don't love it, I really
• 1:16:00
  like what gets us there and I think the performances are
• 1:16:03
  better than average and I think the writing is pretty solid.
• 1:16:06
  Some of the characterizations, sure, a little early 2000s, but
• 1:16:09
  generally speaking I think it's a pretty solid movie.
• 1:16:11
  That you would watch. It's pretty watchable and I
• 1:16:13
  would do it again, yeah, but I wouldn't watch it like soon.
• 1:16:16
  What are we talking five years? Yeah, maybe.
• 1:16:19
  It's a movie I've probably seen maybe 10 times over the last 20
• 1:16:23
  years. So it's not something that is
• 1:16:24
  that's that often. But when I watch it, I really
• 1:16:27
  like it. So I tend to watch it a couple
• 1:16:29
  times and at the video store was something I would have on often
• 1:16:31
  as well. Yeah, well, you're a big Pollock
• 1:16:33
  fan. Yeah, I'm Tim Hutton more often
• 1:16:36
  than not, but beautiful girls. I think he was in.
• 1:16:38
  Yes, that's right. Yeah, in the dark half.
• 1:16:40
  Yeah, the temp. Speaking of Hutton, this is what
• 1:16:43
  I got for next week. OK, a movie that he's not in.
• 1:16:45
  Ohe interesting, nice approach. We are going to get out of a
• 1:16:49
  diner, but we're still going to be hanging out in a pretty small
• 1:16:53
  town. OK.
• 1:16:56
  And that's I'm in. I know exactly what it is folks.
• 1:16:59
  You better listen next week. Things are going to happen for
• 1:17:03
  a. Small town thing.
• 1:17:04
  And it's not exactly a feel good movie necessarily, but Jake
• 1:17:10
  Gyllenhaal's in it. There it is.
• 1:17:12
  And that's something. That already makes me feel good.
• 1:17:16
  And we'll find out how much I. Really like Jake.
• 1:17:18
  Fantastic. We like you listening to us.
• 1:17:20
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• 1:17:23
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• 1:17:25
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• 1:17:28
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• 1:17:31
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• 1:17:43
  great. There you go.
• 1:17:44
  Goodnight.