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From Digital Marketing to Shark Tank: Doug Bard's Wave Tape Story · Better Together

• Shawn Sundsvold: Welcome back to the Better Together Podcast. I am Sean Sunswold, along with Kelly Sunsvold, my co-host. Today's guest spent years in the room where digital advertising was being invented, working ad tech in Manhattan back when Yahoo was still a search engine, before turning his attention to something a lot less digital: the end of a roll of packing tape. Douglas Bard's father is a retired aerospace engineer who spent decades inventing things in his garage. A vacuum-release trash. trash bag system, a universal drink holder, a Christmas tree stand, all with Doug as his marketing-minded co-inventor and business partner. Most of those ideas got close to the finish line and then stalled out. But when his dad came to him with a fix for a problem everyone had, like losing the end of a piece of tape, they finally found the one that stuck. It took nearly three years to get the patent issued, and along the way, tariffs wiped out the manufacturing partner who was supposed to carry the product to market And Doug had to rebuild the entire supply chain himself while keeping his full-time job. Now he's building wave tape from the ground up, manufacturing, branding, social media, retail relationships, all of it, one role at a time. So Doug, welcome to the show. Doug Bard: Thank you very much for having me. Excited to be here. Excited to chat today for sure. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, this is gonna be a fun conversation and you know for people who are just meeting you in our audience, you know, you spent years in the digital marketing and advertising space and now you're what you like to call the tape dude, right? So how'd you end up Doug Bard: That is correct. Shawn Sundsvold: going from double click in Manhattan to packing tape? Doug Bard: it's a it's a great question, but I do have an answer. So you'd mentioned my my father, you know, in the intro. And so I just kind of grew up like he as an aerospace engineer, he obviously likes to build things, but he always seemed to like when things actually broke. People get upset when things break. He loved it because it came up, it gave him an opportunity to come up with a new way to kind of fix things in a in a different manner. So I guess it was kind of ingrained in me from a age. And then as I, you know, kind of I don't want to say gave up the hopes and dreams of being a rock star touring the world and got a a corporate job, you know, which which was still pretty cool working, you know, when the internet first popped in the late 90s and early two thousands, you know, I still kind of dreamed of not really I guess, working for anybody else. And so along the way, you know, a couple of things happened. You mentioned the the spill prevention device. Well, that was that patent was the result of me actually spilling my coffee on my laptop. And so that was the first one where I really We like to say my moment of devastation was my father's moment of inspiration. And that was the first one where I was co-inventor on the on the patent. So that really kind of got my, you know, my eyebrows up and my you know my my hunger for like being an entrepreneur going. But you you learn a lot along the way. So you get these ideas and you learn very quickly not to invent and develop ideas in a vacuum because everything can seem really great to yourself and the outside world could think differently. So We we worked on several. We worked on that. We still have a couple of other patents, a device around people that have walkers. So with my father being an engineer, you also learn or I learned, I should say, that engineers might be incredibly brilliant in one way and and not another way. So I decided to try to put to good use the money that they spent on college and and help him with the marketing of these devices. So we again, as you mentioned, we had a couple of really close calls, you know, companies that were interested in the the various devices, but When something hasn't become a sales success right, you know, right out of the gate, you're you're much less likely to get acquired or somebody to take you on board. And so flash forward to the to the wave tape, it started out as you know, my dad coming to me as he always did with, I got a I got something new here. I'm like, here we go. And this one was like, well, and he started out the sentence with, well, I was in the bathroom. I'm like, here we go. All right. So it started out with actually toilet paper. And I said, Dad, I don't know about that. And we quickly realized, because he he's older now, he's in his 80s, he couldn't find the end of the roll of toilet paper. So we quickly realized that, like, while that could very well be a need and and is a need, the the one for packing tape is the greatest need. It's a problem that everybody can relate to. and when you look into it a little bit deeper from a sustainability and environmental perspective, so much tape is wasted every year because people scratch and peel at the end of the packing tape. They can't find the end. They waste. Tons and tons of of tape. So that kind of led to the first iteration was something we called end in sight tape. the end is easy to find, just look for the break in the line. But we did that one in in black and red. And so we actually did a little bit of kind of a soft launch market research, and people said it looked like hazmat tape. And we figured probably not a good idea to sell a product that was look like hazmat. So we kind of backed off of that. But here's where I became the tape dude. So we called it end in sight tape. It's red and black. They're saying it's hazmat. And they're saying also the line within the tape itself. So you've got the colored strip, and within that strip, there is a line that traverses the the the the ends or the sides of each of the colored strip. So they said that your your wavelength needs to be changed because at two points during the roll of tape, which is generally 60 yards, it overlaps perfectly, which takes away the utility of the tape, because the way it works is when you tear the tape, you create a mismatch from layer to layer. So with the old end in sight, you tear it and sometimes you wind up with a perfectly overlapping piece. You couldn't tell where the end is. What's the point? So they said we had to change the wavelength and we were told it looked like hazmat. And so I'm like, wavelength, wave waves, wait find the break, tape, dude. Voila. The brand just kind of like came from there. And that all that all just kind of came together pretty quickly. Like you hear songwriters talk about their best songs, this kind of came together pretty quickly. And so that that's how the wave tape really got started. And we we had a a a a little bit of a launch with a really cool partner, great people, but right around a lot of things happened at that point in time. Our partners got hit with the tariffs right around when I actually auditioned auditioned for Shark Tank. And Shark Tank loved us and loved the whole father and son story, loved that whole thing. But we made it to the last round before they take took people out to LA. So that kind of we got the no there, and then the tariffs at our partners. And I'm literally sitting there, you know, I got my full-time job, family, kids, wife, life, mortgage, whatever. I'm like, this is after all the inventions that we've worked on, we know this is the one that people need. Like this this addresses a need, however little it might be. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna run with this. I'm gonna ride the wave, so to speak. So yeah. That was a really long answer, I'm sorry. Kelly: No, it's okay. we're huge fans of Shark Tank and it it sounds like were you actually on the recording or did you j you said you just made it to the the place before Doug Bard: Yep. Kelly: you go out to LA? Okay. Yeah. Doug Bard: Yep. So we went out. So actually there's actually one other very important thing that happened during that time. I I can't believe I failed to mention that. So January of twenty-five, I go out to the Vegas auditions, right? I didn't tell my family that I could have done auditions here in New York. I'm like, let me go to Vegas and do the audition out there. It's like the inaugural one that they do at at the Consumer Electronics Show. So I go out there, we get the call back, they do like this video interview, and then you start going through the process with them. And then you have to do an audit. Audition video. People go to my YouTube channel. We've posted the audition video, which we couldn't do back then because they want to keep it all secret. So there was back and forth. And I guess we were like one of our casting producers' top choices according to them. and then in the end we were not selected to go out to LA and film. So there was that. So the other thing that happened, so that was January. We were going through that process. We also exhibited at the National Hardware Show in the Invention Group, which was An amazing experience, and that also kind of helped to validate the market and the market need. People loved us. so we met some great people there. It's really, I mean, you guys probably see this as part of your your podcast. It's so inspiring to be around people, like-minded people, right? So we're in the inventor section. There was a guy who invented this primer which had a metallic substance in it, which wasn't lead, but basically, you do this paint primer and you never really have to drill a hole or bang a hole in your wallet again. You just Hang your stuff up with his things on the back of the pictures. You could hang it anywhere. There was that. There was a natural WD 40, so it wasn't, you know, toxic. Just all these great ideas. A guy that has these bucket grips. He's he's become a family friend now. He's like a brother, Adam. So to be around all that was so inspiring. We had Kelly: I love that. Doug Bard: a full booth. and the cool thing about that was I told, I said, I said, Dad, we're gonna go do the show. And he's like, All right, we'll go. And then my brother lives in Kelly: Yeah. Doug Bard: San Diego, and he's like, you guys are gonna be in Vegas, you know. It's my brother. I'm like, yeah. He's well, maybe I'll come out. I look over at my ma and she's like kind of got that like sad puppy dog face. I'm like, Ma, you're coming too. Got everybody the gear, full family, you know, booth pitching, just my my mom literally looked at me one point and said, This is a dream come true. Because it was one of my father's crazy ideas, actually brought to life. People are valid. I mean, they're in their 80s and we were pitching eight hours a day, you know, from morning to night, and then going out. I'm like, how do they do it? I'm tired because they were just. Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Doug Bard: So amped on it. So really beautiful experience in that sense. we had some folks who kind of toured around, hey, we we might want to buy you. but then the whole the whole what you call tariff thing happened. So that went down. So all that kind of happened, all that's going through my head, which is already hectic enough. And I just said there's no way I'm stopping this thing. So so here we are. Kelly: Yeah. Doug Bard: Yeah. Kelly: so you're an entrepreneur like through and through. you know, there's there's you're not just growing a business, you're growing a product and you're inventing a product, which is super cool. So I mean, it sounds like you spent the early part of your career helping other brands bring their products to the market. So How is this different or even harder than trying to bring your own to market? Doug Bard: I mean, you you know, the I think the the the brands that do really well create some kind of connection, right? There's a connection to the brand. That's what I've that's what I've learned, that's what I've been taught. That's it's all like so so I actually sat there and you know, it's like there it's always easier to sell like one of my jobs in digital advertising was for the World Fishing Network. Nobody really heard it, it was a small cable channel, but I could sell the heck out of it because I know how passionate the angler audience is, right? So that so I know when you're when you believe and there are other things that I've sold that were you know I wasn't as passionate about. So I always felt like anything that I did, I I needed to find some way to kind of make that connection. There's definitely, I don't know, maybe it's the universe, maybe it's serendipity. I don't know what you call it, but for for packing tape to become the wave tape, and then for me to become the tape dude and to do all that, like like that's kind of a dream come true. I mean, it is packing tape, but You know, there are all these other aspects to it which kind of reveal themselves as you become closer and closer to the brand. So I, you know, there are other things that I've sold over the years. I worked for after Double Click, I went to work for CBS Sports Line, right? And so this again is the beginning of the internet. And back then, CBS Sports Line, the big the the the big event for CBS sports was the the March and still is the March Madness Tournament, right? It's huge. So I was super passionate about that and I could I because of the audience, I could sell that to, you know, the the brands. Anytime you you kind of feel it, it's almost you don't really need the stats and all the, you know, the demographics, this, that, the other thing. It's just like, hey, this makes sense and let me tell you why. So for me, the packing tape, the wave tape makes total sense because it's kind of cool. It looks cool. It's a great name, but it's also doing some other things. It's it's helping people kind of not get frustrated over something stupid, like finding the end of a You know, and then there's you're also kind of helping to waste less tape, right? I so I surf today, right? I surf as many days as I as I can during the year. And I I don't make a big deal about it, but as I come off the beach every day, I grab what what I can fit into one hand of garbage and I just throw it away. Just because it's these little no but I'm not checking about I'm not tell I'm telling you guys because we're on a podcast, but it's just like if you can help in just little ways, if everybody helped in a little way. So I'm really excited about that aspect of it, you know. In a in an ideal world, with the the the tape would be made from, you know, some kind of mushroom based, you know, whatever that that's the polyureth. Instead of polyurethane, it'd be mushroom and the adhesive would be some kind of what's that stuff, molasses. And the anchor, you know, like I see that as being possible with all the technology out there, but it's a matter of where these big companies really want to put their, you know, it's become pretty cool to be sustainable lately. So I'm glad about that, right? So. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm i it's curious too, like as a consumer product, right? you know, not when There's a lot of service based, you know, people out there. There's, you know, consumer products like what you're doing. You know, and you've built this business inventing consumer products with your dad and you know and and doing it for years at this point. And, you know, when we talked initially and, you know, you you kind of said you want, you know, a lot of them stalled out, right? before they got to the kind of that finish line point. What is what's really different about wave tape versus just it versus it just being closer to the finish line of like a product that gets on the shelves. Doug Bard: Well, this one addresses a true need in the marketplace, right? Like I think that's you know, the the the stop of spill, the universal drink holder and spill prevention advice. We thought we were addressing a need. It's not like a real need a need that's like omnipresent. I think the the the walker stand, if you're talking about medical equipment, like that helps people with walkers, that that addresses a true need as well. But you're talking about a much much more complex item, a much more complex sale. You're talking about health care, you're talking about insurance. So With wave tape, to me, it's like there's there's the rule of threes, right? So this and this is what we're focusing on right now. It's got a in three seconds, from three feet away, can a three-year-old understand what that thing is, right? Like that's kind of what we're focusing on. So it's it's pretty simple. Most people, if you're in the packing tape, if you need packing tape, if you're buying packing tape, most people understand like the pain of not being able to find the end. It's like you almost get really down on yourself because of something so ridiculous. And it's just, but the I I have a role right here. Like honestly, I can flip this around for like a good, I don't know, two, three minutes and just not find the end. And when I do, maybe scrape, you know, with wave tape, literally bang, bang, you know, and it's just right there. So it's something and it's you know, it's not solving a medical problem, which is why we keep the brand kind of light and happy, right? Like our this is exactly why this is the tag. Life can be hard. Your packing tape should be easy, right? There are much more difficult things in life. We know this. We're not. But we also do really cool kind of we we try to be the the company's not profitable yet, but we do all sorts of philanthropic things, whether it's like, you know, supporting a local food bank or we did a cold plunge for an organization that helps, you know, people coming out of abusive relationships. obviously any kind of you know I I belong to the Surfrider Foundation. There's a group called Surfers Healing, they help individuals with that that have you know maybe that are on the spectrum go surfing. They go all around the world doing this. It's so like we always give, even though we're not profitable, just 'cause we just want to do that along the way. That's just well, even even if we don't become everything that we hope we will, we've still done some good along the way. So Did I answer the question? Sometimes they go on tangents, so Shawn Sundsvold: Totally. No, you did great. Thank you. I love Kelly: You you Shawn Sundsvold: it. Kelly: you totally did. You totally did. Doug Bard: Yeah. Kelly: So Doug Bard: That pr no. Kelly: Sean. Shawn Sundsvold: Did you lose yourself in the notes? Kelly: No, you didn't give me a note. Shawn Sundsvold: I did, actually. I highlighted it. Kelly: New Shawn Sundsvold: Go find the green highlight. Doug Bard: This is the cool thing about the audio recording, right? Kelly: I I'm supposed to hunt I'm Shawn Sundsvold: Scroll down. Kelly: supposed Shawn Sundsvold: Just scroll down on the the document. Kelly: How was I supposed to find that? All right. All right. Shawn Sundsvold: I lost your little marker too, so Doug Bard: How married I can relate, that's all I can say. Shawn Sundsvold: Ha ha ha. Kelly: So obviously, like we're married, we work together, Sean and I do. you know, and we've various times during our our gold bear media experience. We've, you know, we've hired some some of our children to do things they're adults now. so working with family for you is really ingrained because you've worked with your dad, you've worked alongside your dad. There's Doug Bard: Yeah. Kelly: a sense of loyalty and obligation before it became even a passion for you. So at what point did you shift, did that shift for you? And was there a moment it felt like a risk instead of a given? Doug Bard: so it's always been there. I think, you know, as a younger person, a lot of people can relate to like being kind of, you know, just a a maturation process, right? As when I was younger, I just all I wanted to do was all about me, right? When he had the the trash receptacle that helped freed stuck bags, I had a roommate up in Boston and you know, we had discovered that people didn't really understand what that product did. He made this this display. I got it into Walmart, but I wasn't really interested in pursuing that. I wanted to help him out of that sense of loyalty, but it just really didn't, you know, kind of get me going. it was with Stoppersville that that happened for me, you know, like I just but there's also this element where, you know, I'm very fortunate in family and friends. I I love both my parents, but there's something there where like my dad's an aerospace engineer. He's done these amazing things and you know my own perception of myself, I think I'm a decent human being, but You know, like I could never kind of live up to that billing. And he would he never said anything contrary of anything that probably, you know, puffed me up too much in ways I don't know, okay, sure, you know. so it was just like I wanted to be able to kind of prove to myself, maybe prove to him and prove to listen, I like I said, I'm lucky in family and friends, but don't think a lot of my friends aren't busting my chops or like, yo, that's that spill thing looks like a lunar landing model. So what do you You know, and he's like, you know, I'm I'm going all out on these things. So there's been a lot of like, you know, chop busting along the way. So there's, there's kind of like maybe it's a a trident of like kind of proving, I gotta prove to myself. Like I've gotten it this far. Like I gotta see this thing through, you know. my wife and kids. So like when I did not get Shark Tank, like the kids were going into school telling people about Shark Tank, like, my dad's gonna be on Shark Tank. I'm like, I am not, I'm trying out for it. You know, so that was actually like I felt like a really valuable experience. I wanted them to know that I didn't make it on and that's okay. What do you see daddy up in the corner crying at at night by myself at two AM? Sure, but no no. I I didn't stop was the point. You have to keep going and going and going. So to myself, to a lot of my friends who you know, who have been supportive, they're always supportive, but there's always like and then of course, you know, for my parents. They're like they've struggled a lot. They're in their eighties. I w I wanna knock this one through the uprights and they're already proud of me and they make that very well known. and I do a lot to help them and take care of them. But it's just it's kind of that trident, if you will. So yeah. So I it's and it never I don't know if it was a a like a kind of a seismic shift at one point. It just kind of moving that direction. You're right. You get your own your own family. You look at life differently. You're you stop staying out till till bars at five AM with your crazy friends, that kind of stuff. You're like, okay. yeah. So that's that's just it's been a a migration of sorts, you know. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. What I'm curious to just to know 'cause I I obviously, you know, we love Shark Tank, a lot of people do. What was Doug Bard: Mm. Shawn Sundsvold: that application and process like to even get to the point that you got to? Doug Bard: It's a it's a great question and I and I when I look back on it, I think if I had to guess, I think this is why it's really interesting. This this is why I don't think we made the show. They loved us, they absolutely loved us and couldn't stop saying it. The business wasn't that clean at that point because of the other partnership that I had. So we had these partners who were manufacturing, mark they were doing a lot of the marketing and stuff, and so I have an LLC. So answering a lot of the questions for the application process, what does that business look like? I don't think it was, you know, it wasn't as clean of a thing, you know. I could I could be completely wrong, but it definitely wasn't as clean. So there, you know, multiple applications, myself, my dad, the business, asking about, you know, any kind of sales revenue. And again, you know, sales revenue versus revenue coming into my company, that was more of a licensing agreement that we'd set up with them. So, so it was pretty kind of arduous. We put together an awesome An awesome audition video. We thought it was great. Like we had some fun with it. it's pretty, it's pretty funny. So we thought we had that pretty much nailed. There's a girl around here who's been so helpful. She does really beautifully produced kind of social media and stuff. And so like I everybody knows now, you don't necessarily need to something that's pr that that produced. But she helped us with that. So we had to do I went out there, did the in person audition with the applications, kind of short application. When they called us back, did that, and then there was a Deeper applications, how to do that, then the audition video. And I don't remember much after that. It was like, okay, we're gonna find out, we're gonna find out. And that was the next stage would have been going out there, you know, to LA. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Doug Bard: So but yeah, a great experience. The casting folks, they're they're super cool people. Like they're on my LinkedIn all the time, you know. but it's just it's funny because I remember when that first came out, like when I look at my old prototypes. Like the the stop a spell, that's two thousand and four. So what's that, twenty-two years? When I was prototyping back then, nobody had three D printers. I had to go to a place an hour and a half away up in Jersey to meet these guys and like they're sending me back these CAD files, which don't even work on my crappy computer. You know, I'm like, and everybody's like, What you I'm like laser centering. What and now everybody's like, do, do, do, do, do. I'm just like, so there's that element where like I've been at it for a long time. And I used to beat myself up for not like really following through on things as a younger guy. Like started playing guitar, Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Doug Bard: stopped, still play, but never really got, you know, technically good, all that stuff. But now when I think about it, I've been working on, you know, inventions for this. I'm like, I'm following through. I don't you don't call 20 plus years doing this stuff following through. I don't know what it is. Definitely not a straight line. I mean, you Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Doug Bard: want to talk about zigzags, eddies, reverses, jumps, hoops. Yeah, but still at it. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit, you know, right now you you have a full-time job, right? And then for wave Doug Bard: Yeah. Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: tape, I think we ran the list earlier, but I wanna make sure I I I've got it all. You're doing the branding, the social media, you did the Shopify site, you're having all the retail conversations, you're basically wearing every single hat for the business right now, right? Doug Bard: Correct. Yep. Shawn Sundsvold: So what has been the hardest part of keeping up with all of that? Doug Bard: Yeah, I mean, so what's interesting about our brand and product is, you know, like, you know, I've I've tried I tested a couple of things and I know just from internet advertising, especially when you got a price point like ours, trying to you know, your ad spend to to revenue is like it's it's a very hard you know, again, like I've got all these other responsibilities. I'm self it's self funded, right? So I'm self funding this thing. So I have to be really kind of you know, kind of vigilant about the the spend and stuff. So I I did you know kind of sign on a an AI social media platform, right? Like so I wanted like because to be more prolific because you know the algorithms like when you give it more and they reward you for that and this, that, and the other thing. So the challenge with what I found out, and I've actually posted some of these, is the AI does, you know, all these large language models, it still doesn't know what to make of the wave tape. So I have, if you go on my Instagram, you'll find that it's taken this right here. It's turned it into a lampshade. It turned it into, if you and I'm a I'm a more of a grateful dead guy than I am a fish fan, but it turned it into a legitimate sample in a jar. I kid you not. So it's like showing the wave tip. Next thing you know, it's a jar with a sample. I'm like, what is AI do? So I actually had and then I had to pull that back because you know I didn't want to just I'm not just I don't want to spam the people, right? So I I actually before I went away in the travels this summer, because I went to, you Indonesia. Hawaii, Italy. So I'm like, I gotta stop that because I don't, you know. and we're on Amazon, so I just I just I'm gonna get back to it. It's actually on my list. I just got back from well when you guys were in Asbury. I was I came back from Hawaii that week and I had to go out to Minnesota last week for a customer. Then was my son's birthday. Literally, August 15th is the first day I felt like I could breathe since June 25th. So and that although This is a pretty cool story. In the middle of, I think it's the Indian Ocean. So off of Northern Sumatra, the west side of Northern Sumatra, and then the west side of Neus, which is the island off of northern Sumatra, you know, all the hours are messed up. We're just surfing all day. And the only I did not I shut down my normal job completely. So I'm up all hours. I look on my laptop. There's an there's an email from because I reached out again, I'm a sales guy, reached out to Gorilla Tape, Gorilla Group Glue, because they're now in the packing tape market. So this is weeks ago. I'm in the middle of the jungle and it's like, hey, we're kind of interested in talking to you guys. Like, so now here I am in the middle of the jungle, leveraging, you know, a little bit of like, you know, chat GPT, you know, leveraging things to to produce something in the middle of like this island jungle ocean that which is pretty cool. Chalk one up for technology. So yeah, that definitely was a tangent, but Kelly: Yeah. No, like seriously, I mean the summer, like gearing up and being entrepreneur, inventor, I mean, it's a lot. Doug Bard: Yeah. Kelly: so kind of walk us through like what's the next 12 months actually look like for wave tape for yep. Doug Bard: Yep. So there's some other really cool like platforms out there. Like we did a Gromit. If you guys ever heard of the Gromit, they took us on and so they launched kind of novel products and they've got like an audience of a couple million people and they have a product of the week each week. So we did pretty well there. So we launched on there, had some great sales directly through our Shopify. Their whole thing is they just, you know, it's like a Rev share type deal. So I went back to them because right now We just did a a back to school discount on Amazon. We're gonna I'm gonna do a back to school promotion on on on TikTok and our Shopify and Instagram. they also have a cool little thing called Meet the Makers. So they've got those things going on. I need to bring back up my AI platform and just tighten the bolts a little bit and see if I can't because I have a lot of really good content for my my my travels. and then I've actually that whole gorilla thing, gorilla tape. They're out in Cincinnati, so I hope to actually go see them. And then Alien Tape also expressed interest in us. And they're kind of like, to me, they're a perfect partner for us because they basically took tape, something a unique tape. They they won the as seen on TV marketplace. and then they got retail distribution, which is really that's that's the killer piece, right? So we're a perfect fit for them. Whether they wanted to take their brand, which would be black and yellow, that's another. Key piece about the patent, it is not tied to the color. So we have a lot of runway to do cool things. So they could do a black and yellow. It's like aliens, you know, wave tape. It's the end is so easy to find. It's alien. You know, stuff like that they could easily do. We're gonna do a a red and green run for Christmas, right? So ride that holiday wave of packaging ease. There's a good one. So all these things are on my to do list, which is you know, 50 pages long, but it's always kind of re reprioritizing, right? It's like There, put this one here, you guys know. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Doug Bard: I mean, it's hustle, hustle, hustle, right? So, yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: That's the life of an entrepreneur reshuffling priorities to figure out how to move your business forward, right? So as we're as we're wrapping Doug Bard: That's it. Shawn Sundsvold: up, I wanted to do something and a kinda ask you question. And you mentioned it earlier that you took some travels this summer and and Doug Bard: Hmm. Shawn Sundsvold: some of it was really around surfing, right? And you know, I I so I was curious, Doug Bard: Hmm. Hundred percent. Shawn Sundsvold: as much as as big of a surfer as you are, where are some of the best places in the world that you have served? Doug Bard: well I would say the place that we just got back from. So it's myself. We went three years ago, and it's myself and a couple of other actually kind of a a couple entrepreneurs from but more local businesses here in in in Brielle, New Jersey. So we went three years to go, three years ago to it's Indonesia. it's a chain of islands off of there's northern Sumatra and on the west side of northern Sumatra, there's Neus. And off of the west side of Neus, there's a group of atolls, islands, whatever you want to call them. There's the There's the Banyaks, there's the Telos, and then there is the Hanakos. And so we went to the Hanakos three years ago. And so the thing about those islands, they have exposure to like the kind of the southern hemisphere. and so you have there's a an area down there called the Roaring Forties, so you get all these crazy storms. And when you have that many islands within like a a a boat shot of each other, you know, you can catch the swell from maybe whatever directions it it's coming from, and then the winds as well. So that's definitely top-notch. But I've served I've surfed Australia. I surfed Hawaii last year for the first time, Mexico, Central America, all over the the country. So it's it's a blessing because it really does. I surfed this morning. it metaphysically and not to get too like crazy, but you know, it helps me mentally and physically, and and that makes me better entrepreneur, father, human being overall. Some of the ideas I've come up with while I'm surfing, that's 'Cause everything clears out so good when you're if you're having a good session. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Doug Bard: And that doesn't necessarily mean catching the best waves, but you've got you got what you went out there for for me. And that's just like, you know, you're not really think you're not worried about like the future. You're not lamenting the past. You're just kind of there. And these things will pop in when you're kind of unburdened. So that's why it's been a big blessing in that sense. So we'll keep on surfing as much as possible. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Doug Bard: Yeah. Kelly: All right. Well, thank you so much, Doug, for Doug Bard: Matter lost you guys on. Kelly: being on our podcast and to share and to share your Doug Bard: Thank you guys. Kelly: yeah, it's it's been a great conversation. You've got a very unique product, one that I have found like I want to look for it because I also have a hard time with packing tape. so definitely, but Doug Bard: Thank you. Kelly: how do people find you? How do people find you in your product? Doug Bard: So you can we're currently on Amazon. You can go to Amazon. We're there. Just look up, you know, the wave tape, packing tape. so if you just do packing tape, you're gonna see all the big guys. So just put punch in wave tape. we also have our own Shopify site, so you can go to wavetape.com if you wanna see some of our funny content. Instagram is probably the best place. Some of it goes over to Facebook too. And we're we've brought up TikTok as well. so but yeah, those are the those are the places really the Shopify site. which is the wavetape.com and Amazon are the main sales channels. But you can we're on TikTok shop too. So however, yeah, just spread the good word because you're not only you're not only getting a cool product which is going to save you a hassle, but we really are, we really do love the kind of sustainability aspect. You're going to waste less. And we think that matters a lot. So yeah. Kelly: Mm. For sure, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Doug. Appreciate your time.