Latest / Really Renée / Ep. 11 - Your Books Are Lying to You with Heartbeat Bookkeeping

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Ep. 11 - Your Books Are Lying to You with Heartbeat Bookkeeping · Really Renée

• Sam Struck: All right, so today I'm super excited. We're gonna be talking about finances, all the scary, stressful things as a business owner, as an interior designer that we don't go to school for and don't know. And today's guest is Brittany Matheny of Heartbeat Bookkeeping. And she is my bookkeeper. I love her dearly. I literally couldn't live my life without her at this point. So please welcome her to the show. And if you want to get connected, be sure to check the links below. People say we're dreaders. Welcome. This is Samantha from Really Renee. We're here today with Brittany from Heartbeat Bookkeeping. Today is a really special episode that we're just going to be talking about all things finance. Brittany's been somebody that's like worked with me for the last several years. She's ridden the highs, lows, the good, bad, everything in between. So today we're just gonna have a conversation around small business. Finance, different things that I could have, you know, changed, done differently over time. And just looking forward to chatting more about it with you. Welcome. Hi. Thank you for having me. Seriously. This is one episode when we were planning the podcast. I feel like finance is one of those things that people just have a really high level of discomfort with. I think, you know. Full transparency. I've told you this before. Like I came into business feeling somewhat financially illiterate. And I just like didn't have a lot of knowledge around finance. I got into this business because I love design. Yeah. And it was never one of those things that I'm like, yes, I know a ton about money and entrepreneurship. So I feel like maybe for those of us that have not been working with a bookkeeper, don't understand what you do. Maybe don't understand the difference between bookkeeping, CPA, all of those things. Yeah. Can you give me like a little bit of just like an intro around what you do, how you do it, and maybe what the differences are? for sure. I think that is a big thing, especially people who are creative. They don't want to deal with numb numbers. Are are kind of boring, especially to creative minds. Yes. and then in the financial world, there's a lot of levels that I think people don't realize. And you can have a bookkeeper, which is kind of where I land, which is kind of doing the day-to-day numbers, putting things in the right spot, giving you figures on a monthly basis, even a weekly basis if you want to know where your business is at. Also keeping up on like your AR and your AP. I find so many businesses, especially starting out in small and in a small community, want they they bill a client. But then they don't really follow up if that client paid. They don't really and then they start work even without the money. so that's kind of where I maybe land. And also doing payroll. So kind of like the nitty-gritty is where I'll be. Yeah. then you can get into like your tax advisors, like your CPAs and such, which can definitely help with that. And then also your CFOs, which will help with your financial planning, retirement planning, and all of that. I try to definitely keep up on all of the the new tax deductions and law so I can be helpful. And I so I try to dabble in the CPA world even though I don't file your taxes. Yes. And that's intentional. Totally. Yeah. I feel like you have done that for me several times where it's like, yes, you do the bookkeeping, you do the monthly reporting. You are so great about like keeping everything tidy and up to date. But then there are like random questions that I'll ask you about like How do I do this or how do I do that? And it maybe like dabbles into maybe light financial advising or planning or entry into CP the CPA world, things like that. But you also are very good about being like, I think, you know, this is as far as my knowledge goes. And then you need these things. And so for those of us that like are, you know, new in business, kind of starting out, essentially the recommendation I think, I mean, from you and then for in general is like bookkeeper. CPA and financial planner. You kind of need all three of those in a triangle to like look at your financial snapshot and like think about future planning, true or not true. True. No, I think I think it's very true. I think some some places you can get all in one. Yeah. But it's usually by different individuals within a big company. and I think it's also good to have some of it a little bit separate for just checks and balances. That way it's all not under one company that can fix their own mistakes and don't really know where if I make a mistake, a CPA is gonna call me out on it. So I feel like that's helpful and good for a business. and then like the CFO, I think that is can be really helpful, especially as your business grows. There is some things that you can do yourself and just keeping track of your numbers and then you know, reaching out to a retirement company. But yeah, I think having all three is really helpful. Maybe starting out with bookkeeper, then get your CPA and then get your CFO. One of the like first questions that comes to mind when we talk about bookkeeping, financial planning, and kind of that path as a small business, what would you say is like the point at which, and it's kind of a big question, broad question. It's what would you say is the point at which you would be like, All right, you need to separate out your personal your your personal money was your business if you're small business kind of getting more growth. And then second tier to that is like when would you consider bringing a bookkeeper into a business? A great question. And I would always say day one. Yeah. Day one. And because commingling personal and business is the biggest IRS red flag. Or I should say one of the bigger sure. red flags. And so starting out where that's separate, you get a separate bank account. It doesn't take long. Just go to your you go to your bank, get a separate checking account, get a business account, get a credit card if you can, and then link that to a bookkeeping software and then get a bookkeeper. and you can how I do my pricing is based on the need of that client. So you might start out and some clients I give reports quarterly because the workload's minimal, the transactions are minimal. And then you can work your way up with your bookkeeper as your business grows. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that there's always this like mindset that small business owners have, right? Of like, I don't know if I can afford that. I don't know if I should do that, that investment. But one of the things that I have always come back to is like if I am charging, you know, $175 an hour for my design services and bookkeeping is, you know, ranges obviously where you're from, but I think ours ends up being what between like eight hundred to a thousand every month in maintenance, but our revenue ends up like right now I think we're on track to a million this year. So if we're talking about a thousand dollars a month, a million dollars in revenue and how many hours it would take me to do that work versus you doing it or your team doing it, and knowing that my billable time is maximized by not doing that work. Yes. that's like the shift that I think some of us that are maybe, you know, a few steps behind maybe where this business is at right this second, need to like reframe. And I was there for sure. I was there. Like every when you're like starting out, you're like, $300 a month is like so much, you know. And like to your point, my partner's business, you manage his and it's quarterly because his volume is different, his needs are different. and then of course. we can talk about this in a little bit, but like we do procurement. So if your design business is mostly just design services, your needs are probably less. Yes. In which case that cost may be less too. And so I just think bookkeeping is one of those things that like we kind of as small businesses, we like fumble in in it and think that we can manage, but then we get to a point where we're like, shit, maybe we should have done some planning and organization earlier because Had we had somebody looking at this that understands finances more than I do, we could have looked at how we could leverage our revenue or change things around to like maximize our take home. a hundred percent. And when you have a bookkeeper, they can produce you financial reports that banks will recognize, like if you ever needed to get a loan. Or even when you go to file your taxes, you can use those reports that just make your life so much easier and make you more official as a business, even when you're small. Yeah. And I feel like that's empowering for small business owners to have those documents that are official. Yeah. And a bookkeeper can give those to you at any moment. Sure. And then also just knowing where your spend is, even when you're starting out, I feel like is really important. There's always startup costs. So it's it might not look pretty starting out, but I feel like knowing where you spent your money, like how much did I spend in advertising or how many software subscriptions do I have? Like starting out is huge, especially when you're small. So I think day one is really important to get a bookkeeper and like don't commingle funds. Yes. Okay. So then how would you recommend somebody find a bookkeeper? Cause I feel like I like Googled a lot of different bookkeepers. And frankly, it's like designers. There's like different levels of professionalism and Quality and understanding. So like short, quick and dirty, what's the best way to find a bookkeeper that you feel like will align with you and help you? I think even though it's a professional service, I think a recommendation from another design service that you align with, I think is recommendations huge. I feel like from somebody you trust. Yeah. And like if they find a bookkeeper that they that they love, they usually hold on to for quite a few years in yeah. And so I think asking around is probably like word of mouth is huge. There is always Google and there's like social media. You can always check out their social media accounts to see if that kind of aligns with your vibe and kind of get a good feel. if if that is important to you for it to be somebody that you don't not only just get numbers from, but that you enjoy talking with. Yeah. Okay. So then how important when somebody's looking at finding a bookkeeper. How important is it that that person is located in your state versus virtual? Cause I think there's a lot of options and opportunity. There's some, you know, companies that are like, we do virtual bookkeeping. Yeah. do you have opinions on that? Yeah. Thoughts on that? so I think it depends on the type of business. Yeah. I think some businesses really could, even though I'm for the most part a remote bookkeeper for most people, they really need an in-house one. Yeah. And hiring me to help with their in-house work is hard. Yeah. Hard. so I think you need to look at your needs. If it's truly just everything can be done online, then I don't think they have to be in your state. It is helpful when it comes to certain tax guidelines, especially in Oregon with state income tax, especially if you're in Portland and you have like Portland, City Portland tax, Mulano County tax, all of that stuff. Yeah. Not that your bookkeeper is filing your taxes, but it's good that they know about that and that should be filed, especially if you're doing payroll too. Yeah. so I do think having one local is important to an extent. but not it doesn't have to be. I think it has to especially if all of your work is done online. And let's say you have a lot of employees that work all over the country and your whole business is pretty much remote. Yeah. Then that's I think that's totally fine. That's totally. Is there certain businesses that really do need an in-house bookkeeper? A hundred percent. And then there are some businesses where it can be a hybrid. Where you just like you stop by once a week or maybe once a month and just like check in. And I feel like that is also helpful too. So looking at what your business needs will determine what kind of bookkeeper you. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, pretty much you and I are mostly virtual. but there's a level of comfort that I guess I feel with knowing that you're like local, you're here, you understand Oregon. and I'm sure somebody outside of the state could do that, but I don't know, something about me wanting it to somebody to be familiar with our state and like random yeah things make me feel better about it. So no and I can see that especially with creative businesses. I think you like tangible things. Yeah. And having a bookkeeper who is somewhat tangible, I feel like it makes you feel good. It makes me feel good. I I love I think I think that's a big misconception with bookkeeping. I mean and there's stereotypes exist for a reason, but all of the financial world is kind of cold. Yeah. but I think you I really love I love numbers, but I really love people more. And so I do love when I can connect with clients. So some of my favorite clients are my local ones because I can go in and visit with them in person. Totally. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Then I guess as a side, this is like a good segue into this idea of AI and like bookkeeping with AI then. Like, what is your thoughts? I have thoughts on AI, obviously. for anyone that's like followed me long enough, they know that I have like a love relationship with Claude. but, you know, Claude code on my computer was like, connect me to your QuickBooks and I can do your bookkeeping. And I was like, no, that just like doesn't feel like it's my vibe. So talk about a little bit where the industry's at with AI, where that conversation's going, what your thoughts are around it. I'm just curious. Yeah. I think I think AI is a valuable, really valuable tool. but I am cautious with it. I do find you have to make sure that they don't share your data. especially personally if I'm using it for any kind of financial reasons. Yeah. So you need to go in your settings because it automatically will want to share your data. So you need to make sure that's not pay for a subscription. Don't just do the free one. You need to pay for a professional. And then you can also when you have that professional subscription, you can change how long it will think on something. And so I want I want it if I ask it a question. I want it to think on it for like 30 seconds. And it gives me a five second response. I don't believe it. and then I also, so I pretty much pull my own reports, I write my own emails, but then I might use AI to help format things. Yeah. Maybe check my math. and also if I have it check a certain law or guideline, I always tell what website to check. Yeah. Check irs.gov. Like don't just do this broad search of cause it'll go back years that maybe And bring up something that's not applicable anymore. Sure. So I those are how I use it. I would never connect it to any kind of accounting software. and maybe at some point it would. Yeah. I would, but right now I wouldn't. I don't trust it. But I will give it data to help me produce a fancy report. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at with it right now. And I always tell it to check its math. And I've had it be wrong multiple times. I'm like, you're wrong. Yeah. And then I do change. how long you'll think on something to like a pro level because I want it to think on it before I feel like I could confidently use this data to make financial decisions. Totally. Yeah. No, I hear you on that. I just don't think I'm I would ever, even like as a pretty early and significant adopter of AI in our business and our strategies, I would never have it do my like books and feel good about it. I just I really want to know that like A human is looking at it, understands the finances. I don't know. There's just I I don't ever see myself like letting that go. So yeah, I could see it as like a a tool that we're all using, but I don't see it ever being like, I'm gonna have it do all of this now. So I don't know. Yeah, that's just kind of a random thing. Yeah, I still like AI I use to organize my thoughts. Yeah. But I don't let it give me my thoughts. I've done sense. Yeah. that's great. okay. Well, let's segue a little bit into like nuts and bolts around business and general strategies. I'm curious about the kind of like the mistakes or things that you see happen from a books perspective that you see business owners make that you would like if it were your business, you'd be like, I need to do this. So we talked about this a little bit earlier. And one of the examples I gave was like you rid the rode the wave of like downturn for me for a couple of years. And so one of the things that I think you could easily see up front was that I needed to lay off my team earlier than I did. I put money into the business, back into the business because I just like really didn't want to have to make that decision. And I knew it was there. But personally I needed to reconcile like what a layoff felt like, what that looked like. And so for me it was like It was the emotional thing I just needed to do and I was willing to put the money in to like let me get to that point. so I'm curious if there are other like things that you see that maybe us as business owners get like jaded or clouded or emotionally invested in things that you're like, shit, like they really should be doing this, this and this. What are those things typically that you see? Yeah, I think not knowing I think most Some business owners don't even know what their net income is. Yeah. They don't even know that they're running a giant loss. Sure. For years. And before I get too much into this, there is something that I did really admire when we went through that. Cause I remember sending you reports one time and being like, Sam, I don't know how long we can do this. Like, 'cause it will and you saying, Brittany, the lights are still on and that's good enough for me this year. Yeah. And I thought I was like, Good for her. Good for her. And now look at you. Yeah like so I remember really admiring that perspective. And I do think as business owners, you have to be able to ride that wave and have that perspective. Sure. but do I think you could have stopped the bleeding maybe a little sooner? Yes. Yes. but I did love your perspective. I think that was really healthy and human. Thank you. and so yes, not knowing what your business is making. What is your net income? Yeah. Some don't even know they're running at a loss. Like in a big loss. And then they don't even know where that's going. Is it in is it in payroll? Is it in product? Are they not charging enough for their markups? Yep. is it in advertising or or is it in something that maybe is explained and you're like, that won't be there next month. It's okay. We're just gonna get through it. Yeah. also not looking at so you look at your business net income, that's not your cash flow. So for instance, like your what you take as an owner draw to survive. That doesn't go on your profit and loss. That's not a business expense. Right. also if you're paying off loans or like that that whole payment is not a business expense. Only the interest is. Right. So you think like, I have this giant loan. I I should be able to write off those couple thousand dollars. No, you don't. So you're gonna get taxed on a net income that is higher, but then you have no money because you're spending so much on debt. Right. So just kind of knowing where your cash flow is and making sure that you have that in order to support your liabilities and your equity is huge. Right. I think is really huge and something that most people don't look at both set numbers. another big mistake would be commingling. And not that you can't take owner draws and it you then spend it on whatever you wanted, but don't charge your card for you know, it happens for sure. Sure. We all make the accidental slip a hundred percent. And that's okay. but just do it more officially. Yeah. Yeah. And co-mingling. And then also payroll is a big hiccup, I think, for a lot of companies. Yeah. Maybe not small, you know, usually you don't have payroll maybe starting out, but that's another one that can be really dicey. Sure. Yeah. No, I r I remember asking you, like, Hey, can I write off my like purses? And can I like write off my hair? Like, I'm like, off all my nails. So I will ask you so many things and then you're always so sweet and you're like, Well, I don't think we should, but you could try, you know, or whatever. And so I always appreciate how honest you are about things and like your willingness to be like, Well, this is yeah, you shouldn't commingle these things, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. So Well yeah and the government doesn't make it easy. sure. Like everything is gray. I think that's why I love numbers because they're black and white. I love bookkeeping, it's black and white. I can make that reconcile. I know where everything's going. Taxes, super great, really great. And then you can read twelve pages on something and you're like, I still don't really know right the answer to. So on those like certain things where it's like, Yes, you want to maximize your write offs. Every business does. Yeah. No business wants to pay taxes, but yet you want to be profitable. So finding that balance is really hard. Right. and then there are certain things you can ride off. Like if you're doing, you know, a design shoot or something, yes, those expenses you can write off. But if you go get your nails done on a regular basis that aren't just for the shoot, then we probably shouldn't ride that off. Yes. That kind of stuff. So it is it is great and it is hard, that's for sure. Yeah. Hey, so if you're finding this content helpful or informative. I would so appreciate if you could consider subscribing to us and leaving a comment or a review just so that we can reach more people, reach more designers, and help elevate the design community. Thanks for tuning in. So then I guess in terms of like numbers, and when you talk about, you know, business owners that don't know what their net income is or things like that, when we talk about which numbers are the most important for business owners to pay attention to, like, Is it revenue? Is it net income? What are the things that when we get the information from our bookkeeper, we need to be like looking at and paying attention to? Yeah. I think net income is probably the number one. That's the amount you're gonna get taxed on. Okay. and if you think about like that net income, like thirty percent is maybe what I'm gonna sp like what it's gonna I'm gonna have to pay in taxes. Yeah, it's kind of high, but and not taking into consideration your personal things that might Sure. also your gross revenue is fun. Like how much money you brought in. That always looks really nice. Yes. And it's neat to see that increase over the years and like hit a million dollar mark. That's huge. Yeah. so the obviously where the money is landing. And then cost of goods is always good and your gross profit is good. that should be your gross profit margin, that percentage is really important. It does kind of depend on your industry, but it is good to know how much your business is making and how much is kind of walking out the door with yeah with that project, you might say. and then your expenses. So kind of looking at it all is pretty important. so you'd know where your spend is. But I would say like number one is like your net income is kind of what is gonna impact you the most. Right. Yeah, I agree. I'm just trying to think about like when you send reports to me and I'm like looking at the monthly, you do such a good breakdown of like You know, this is your net income, this was the revenue. And then you also kind of provide a snapshot of like here was your biggest overhead expenses and the percentage of what that took up. And I always feel like those things are so helpful because when we are setting goals and targets as a business, I approach it with like a lens for me, my goal is to always try to make our overhead through design services and then whatever we're selling in procurement. that essentially becomes like the profit for the month. So you know, when we sit together and we do monthly like goals and goal setting, then it helps determine like we need X amount of available hours as a team in order to cover this. So getting that like monthly overhead report and understanding like what is the costs that we're running right now. and then, you know, being able to like look at that and leverage that to be able to plan ahead, I think is like the goal for everyone. 100%. And to make sure your spend is in the right spot for your business. Right. Like if a like if you are a local design business, but your travel expenses are through the roof, you might be like, Well, what are you consulting over there? You know, like while you're here or making sure that like I mean, number one on the l for most service businesses is obviously contractors and payroll, making sure that the people on your team are worth it because they're costing you fifty percent of your gross or of your revenue. Right, so they're worth it. And then also like your cost of goods making sure that that is aligned with how much you're charging for the product. Right. Yes. We talked about this in another episode about procurement. Like I really do try to to as a standard make sure and maybe maybe you can help me solve this because I always get confused between margin and markup. I know it theoretically, like the markup is what you put on the item you're selling. But that margin is different and and those two things like in my blonde brain cannot reconcile at times. all that to say we try to make twenty five percent at least I think that would be margin, yes. Yes. On on anything we're procuring. Because if we don't, then it's not profitable for us. So I mean it has to at a minimum be in that zone for us to be like, it's worth it to sell. So we talk a little bit more on another episode about like ways to increase that profitability from a sales perspective because there's strategies around that, right? Using different vendors or like making sure that you don't give your trade discount to everyone, et cetera, et cetera. But tell me, tell me about like give us a little like quick, I don't know, education on margin versus markup and like the importance of those two things. Yeah. Well, I think one is like obviously the markup you're gonna charge your client for. And then the margin is kind of like how much money you're making on it, what that percentage is. And so I think both need to be somewhat aligned, but when you are considering your margin and your markup for both, you need to know how much, not just how much that product costs to do, but how much did it cost to like store the product. Right. How much time did you spend on ordering that product? How much time is it gonna be spent going there? So it's going to be a lot more than just like, that product. cost me $500, I'm gonna mark it up by 20%. Right. It's like, no, there's a lot more that goes into the cost of you getting that product to the client and making sure you're recovering the the costs on that and making some money on it. Right, right. Yeah. So how do you recommend, you know, people like me or designers or I guess anyone in a small business start to like have that awareness, right? Because you're not here every day to like track my hours on how long it takes to like order something and whatnot. So what what would you recommend or what are the pointers you'd give to us to be like, okay, here's how you get real data on that and here's how we can work together to like make sure that this is a good thing for you. Yeah. So obviously looking at your financial reports and the figures there will be huge. And then also getting the data from you, like how many hours did it take for you to do that? Who do you pay to deliver that? Is that here? Am I do I have that expense? Yeah. Or is that lumped into this? So just getting everything that is related to that product. And then also I think a huge part of it is do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy buying the product for the client and making sure they get it? Yeah. Or do you and storing it? Do you have a warehouse here? Or do you hate it? Or is product getting broken or that kind of stuff? Yeah. And so knowing. If if this is something you really enjoy of your business, yeah then then it's worth it. Then okay. Well, how do we make it worth it? If it makes you hate it, then like let's just get rid of it because it's not worth the mental capacity. But it is obviously gathering the data, looking and then looking at what your business runs, like how much it costs your business to run. Right. with your overhead costs, and then seeing how much of that you want paid by this item. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that that makes sense. I just think sometimes it's overwhelming to like think about how you can get that information and track it. Like we probably don't even track at this moment like how much time it takes. I have rough ideas on that. but I don't have like a report for that. You know what I mean? So I think there's always ways to like dial in and become more efficient with that. So actually on a side note, we created an agent on our computer set like watches our screens and tracks what we're doing. So it actually does all of our time tracking for us. We're not like entering time manually as much anymore. nice. So I actually have like a little agent that does that. And then I go in and like edit it before I tell you like time's ready to be invoice. So I mean I could totally re rewrite the agent to be able to like track procurement time probably and like get it to track when we're just doing order submittals and kind of get some information off there. So now you're getting my wheels turning on that front. But and I think that's huge because then you're not just tracking like how much it took me to be on that project, which is huge and which you are so great at, but also like how much did it for each step of the way, how much did it take? Yeah. I think that's true. And I I mean as a side too, we tried to do procurement with you guys handling it. And I think this is like a good for you know, the interior design firms that are like struggling with getting into for procurement or the logistics around it or the nuts and bolts. you know, we've tried it a bunch of different ways. I've had, you know, I had Sarah in our office before who did our bookkeeping and procurement, but she was in-house and she was here. and then then we switched over to external bookkeeping. And so and then at the time we also I think when we hired you, we also had Emily who was doing our procurement. And so procurement was just handled in-house and it was a position that was like a hybrid between office manager and procurement manager. And then our dear Emily moved away. And so, and then we scaled down. So then, you know, in terms of ebb and flow, we got to the point where it was like, we don't need a full time person. But then as business picked back up, then it was like, Okay, now I don't have time for all of this. And so and Surop is like ninety nine percent just design only. And so we tried having you guys do procurement. And it was just like so I did not realize how cumbersome it is. And I do it all the time, but I like didn't realize how difficult it would be to manage that externally because you know, we've got 300 vendors that we're like logging into, getting pricing. And it just I don't think I think it's really good that we tried it. Yeah. But I also think it I think learning through that was like that. position needs to be in-house. So when we talk about finances and like what you can have bookkeepers do, because you you can do it. You technically could do the procurement. You do accounts payables and receivables, which are tied significantly to the payments going to our vendors and things like that. but in terms of like the actual proposals that get to a client and need to be paid on, We just found from an efficiency standpoint, it's probably better to do that in-house. So we're like back at the point of needing to bring somebody on and be like, you gotta come in here. Yeah. and then to just also see that through once that person in-house kind of gets familiar with the proposal, the items in the proposal, then it becomes like a net a natural flow into the actual ordering and then receiving it here. So then they like They've seen the item, they have a picture of it, they know where it's coming from. They're tracking the item here to our warehouse. They're, you know, getting it here, checking it in, and then marking that it's, you know, arrived, whatever. So from a efficiency standpoint, I feel like that model probably what is best, but it was fun to like try it and be like, this isn't working. So and I think we both are like, I don't know, we've just been on this journey for so long that we both could easily be like. We like fumbled for around for a bit and then we were like, this is not working for you or me. And like this is hard. And so I just think that it's you have to be curious as a business owner. You have to stay curious, you have to see, and you are somebody that's like your whole team is essentially amazing at just like problem solving and being willing to like be of service to businesses. And so this is like the caveat to everyone that has a small business of just like. It's okay to learn, it's okay to try things and it's okay to like readjust and try. There might be other design firms out there that like bookkeeping can handle their procurement and whatnot because maybe they're like a lower volume and it's like not so cumbersome. But, you know, you saw ours where it was like hundreds of items on a project and it's like, no, this needs to be, you know, a person. Yeah. Well, and you also deliver a a proposal that is very high end. I mean you have a picture of every knob and I like on the proposal. Yeah. So I was even just finding the pictures, I was like, my goodness, how do I and making sure it looks pretty so you are at a a level that I w admire. But it that was hard to do not in how like yeah. And then to make sure I had the dimensions right on certain tile and logging into the vendor and then looking at okay, every not that you don't have like a standard markup or but Sometimes it's different. No, there's not. I mean to be honest, there's not. Because the markups are all different based on the vendor discounts. Yeah. So yeah, there's not really. It's so there was a lot of moving parts to that. And you did so good about like bringing like sending it all to me. But it was a lot to go through. And I feel like it the not that is something that I think needs to be in-house, especially for someone like you who does Provide such a high level of detail to every order. Right. Yeah. And I think ours, you know, the relationship between designer and procurement at that point is pretty tethered because if somebody's in house in our office, then that person can just they don't need to be a designer, but they they certainly need to be able to like ask the designer questions about those items. And so that role and that like part of our business thrived when we just had like a dedicated person. So I am very excited about being at the place where we can like bring somebody back in house for that because I'm like, okay, well, we've like rode the storms for a couple of years, which by the way, our like downturn, I feel like happened as a result of the election cycle. And I think everyone should just know that as a business owner, that is normal to have election cycle downturns. But I think in our industry because conversations like rapidly shifted around tariffs, construction costs, mortgages, there was more uncertainty in an unsettled market than there typically has been. I feel like in our little insulated pocket, we haven't really had like that significant of a downturn. But then this one like paused the whole market. It wasn't just us, it was like universally felt in the construction industry. So I think that's also part of why back to your point, I was able to be like the lights are on because it was like, this is not just me. This really is a situation and it sucks right now. And we have to like do the hard things to pare down and weather it. But I think it was if it was like a me problem, then it would have maybe felt different. But I also did the remodel of this office at the same time, which was just like shit, this is like a lot. I should maybe I shouldn't have done that or like this. But you know, hindsight's 2020 and all you can do is either like bold, which no judgment to anyone that gets in and it's just like, this is too much. I'm done. I actually think that there's a lot of bravery and courage in doing that. But also like I was so in it that I was like, I have to make this work. We're just gonna keep going until we can like get ourselves out. And so it's yeah, it's just been like I feel so grateful to be able to like sit on this journey with you and have you like see it, like come and and go and then like kind of reach a full circle moment of like, okay, we can weather it. And I do feel like I learned so much as a business owner during that journey of just like Yeah, what it means to lay off a team, what it means to pare down, scale down. I do think that I approached rehiring very differently now than I than I was, you know, back then. So it was all good, but it was like you were like the right hand person, not like who were there with me in it, because I don't really let people into the numbers of my business, like not even my partner knows like what's going on in my business. so it's, you know, it's a very vulnerable thing for somebody to sit in. And you always handle it with such like grace and humility that I I feel like a certain kinship in that relationship that I don't feel like anyone else in my business really gets because you see all the things. Yes. So yeah, I feel like a little naked in front of you sometimes. Like I'm like You're seeing all the things that feel so uncomfortable. But also it is such a like peace point to have somebody in your corner on your side that like can look at what's going on and be like, you're doing great. It's picking back up. And so you know, if you're an interior designer and you're like on the fence about bookkeepers and like what where to invest and spend, it's worth every penny. And it's just like so much peace of mind in terms of knowing like you don't have to know all the information and somebody that does know all the information can objectively look and tell you you're doing great. And that means a lot when you're just like swimming in a sea of trying to f navigate business. for sure. And I think it is a vulnerable spot to be in. But I I'm blown away by everybody's in a similar boat. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's no like they're very, very rare out there that are small businesses that like Don't have a loan or don't have this or don't have that or don't, you know what I mean, have to watch cash flow or stuff like that. Like we're all in the same boat together. So even though it might feel vulnerable or like you're naked or you're like, I'm worried about that, like I don't want people to see it, like there's nothing that is that somebody else isn't going through that we don't see every day. And so and no, and it's been a wonderful journey to go on with you, especially because you are so fun and resilient and positive, but also realistic. Totally. and ambitious. And I think that the I think those are wonderful qualities. Thank you. I think maybe like figuring out what time to use the ambitiousness is like the the timing of things. Yes. Yes. But I think it's a wonderful quality. Thank you. Well, I mean, I feel like we've touched on a lot of different things. I don't is there any other quick tips, tricks that you wanna like share before we wrap up that you think would be, I don't know, imparting your wisdom on the small business community. Yeah. I think always getting a bookkeeper that you really enjoy. Yeah. And that you trust and not just somebody that like just sends you a report or like it's good to track all the numbers and making sure that you're not double reporting your income or under reporting or like that you're capturing everything. Yeah. Like that's really important to be thorough and get everything. Making sure that your books are clean and nice and reconciled every month and that's so huge. and then also just having a human on your side. Yeah. I feel like is so important where that relationship is one that is that you can build trust on. Yeah. And but also have a professional level of that they're gonna do the right thing. Sure, totally. Cool. Well thank you so much for chatting with me. I hope that this was helpful to any of you that maybe feel stuck or overwhelmed by finance and small business. And we'll make sure we link you in your business. So if anyone needs help, obviously she's amazing. although please don't steal her from me, don't make her too busy. She's gonna she has to pick me. So I'm just saying. I would never leave. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us. I really appreciate it. And look forward to chatting again. Yes, well, thank you. We're dreamers. Don't care what other people say, we live it like a sleeping. We are dreamers.