Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Kae Wagner and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Kae Wagner and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
• 0:19
  Connections. The show where relationships don't
• 0:22
  just expand your network, they expand your influence.
• 0:26
  I'm your host, Michael Foreman. And today we're
• 0:29
  talking about a shift many professionals want,
• 0:32
  but don't always understand. Moving from being
• 0:35
  present in a room to being someone actually remembered
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  after a room empties. My guest... has walked
• 0:44
  the path from professional to author to leader.
• 0:47
  And along that journey, something interesting
• 0:50
  happens. A book doesn't just share ideas, it
• 0:54
  changes conversations. It changes how people
• 0:58
  approach you, what they ask you, and the kinds
• 1:01
  of opportunities that start finding you. We're
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  diving into how storytelling builds trust, how
• 1:08
  relationships fuel business growth and why leadership
• 1:12
  is often formed through conversations long before
• 1:15
  it's recognized by title. If you want your connections
• 1:21
  to carry more meaning and your voice to carry
• 1:24
  more influence, you're in the right place. So
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  I'd like to welcome to my podcast, Kay. Kay,
• 1:31
  I've been really waiting for this podcast because
• 1:34
  I'm very interested in what you have to say.
• 1:37
  But why don't you give us just the click notes
• 1:39
  of how you got where you are today? Thank you,
• 1:43
  Michael. It's a privilege and an honor to be
• 1:45
  here with you today. And first of all, I want
• 1:47
  to thank you for your service. My honor. How
• 1:51
  I got here today. Yes, we're going to do the
• 1:54
  Cliff Notes, the short version. I've been in
• 1:56
  business for quite some time. And all that time,
• 2:00
  I've been a writer. I've actually been a writer
• 2:02
  since I was a kid. In my business, North Star
• 2:07
  Marketing, I very early on became keenly aware
• 2:10
  of the value of a book. And we'll get into that
• 2:13
  story, but I'll tell you about two books that
• 2:16
  I wrote early on that literally made me millions,
• 2:19
  not in the way that you might suspect or expect,
• 2:22
  but in a very powerful way that I think your
• 2:25
  audience will appreciate and may learn a few
• 2:28
  tips from. But I'm an entrepreneur at heart,
• 2:32
  always looking for the opportunity to grow the
• 2:35
  business, to grow through personal and professional
• 2:38
  development. And really, I'm also a teacher at
• 2:42
  heart. I love helping people learn. I love to
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  help people move into the next phase, to the
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  next level of what is really their next growth
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  phase, if you will. Those are the things that
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  make my heart hum, the things that make me happy.
• 3:00
  Sounds wonderful. That really does sound great.
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  All right, so let's get into it. How does becoming
• 3:07
  an author change the way people approach you?
• 3:10
  And how should you intentionally use that shift
• 3:14
  in your networking? That is such a great question,
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  Michael. And the shift is incredible. So when
• 3:23
  I was early on in my business in North Star Marketing,
• 3:27
  And because I've always been a writer, I decided
• 3:30
  it was a great idea to write a book. And my subject
• 3:33
  matter has always been marketing. I'm a quote
• 3:35
  -unquote marketing expert for authors now and
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  also for business owners and C -suite executives.
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  But my first book came to me when I realized
• 3:49
  that the CEOs and the top level executives that
• 3:53
  I was working with, the clients that our agency
• 3:56
  had, did not really understand marketing. They
• 3:59
  knew it was something out there related to getting
• 4:03
  their products in the market. But what they really
• 4:05
  wanted was to get the sale. Could we just get
• 4:08
  the sale? I don't know what this marketing stuff
• 4:10
  is. Could we just get to the sale? So one day
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  I realized I was working with a CEO, very large
• 4:18
  food company. And he said to me, he said, so
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  what is it with this marketing stuff anyway?
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  And I'm like, OK, so you don't really get marketing.
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  No, I don't know. So that day after my staff
• 4:32
  left, I was at the office and I thought, I think
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  I see a pattern here. I see something that's
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  common in the marketplace. It's a problem. CEOs.
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  Top level executives don't understand marketing.
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  They understand sales because that has a dollar
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  sign at the beginning of the word, but they don't
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  understand the role marketing and branding play.
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  So I set about to educate my clients. And that
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  day after my staff left was quiet. I sat down
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  and I wrote out the 10 power principles of marketing.
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  And those power principles of marketing then
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  became something that I taught to every client
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  that we worked with. And those clients then shared
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  them with other CEOs with other small business
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  owners with other influencers. And then I began
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  getting speaking engagements and was on the stage.
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  And then, duh, it was time for the book. So I
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  did it backwards. I didn't do the book. I did
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  the book after. But I took time. And every Friday
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  for three months, every Friday morning for three
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  months, for three, about three or four hours,
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  I sat down and I worked on the book. So I got
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  the first book out, The Power Principles of Marketing.
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  I self -published it. That was before, just shortly
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  before KDP. So I self -published it the hard
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  way. And I have a picture of me and my staff
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  putting books in boxes to send to our list, to
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  mail to our list of CEOs and business owners.
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  That book got a lot of attention. And the subsequent
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  book, which was titled The CEO's Little Black
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  Book on Branding, got a lot of attention. It
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  got an International Design Award. And the speaking
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  engagements, the book, were like a golden ticket.
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  And I would speak to a group of business owners.
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  And about three weeks later, a month later, I
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  get a phone call from the VP of marketing saying,
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  CEO heard you speak, wants us to work with you.
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  And then we signed up marketing projects and
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  campaigns. relationships and it was amazing that's
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  how it all begins that's that's how it all begins
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  and you did it actually you say you did it in
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  reverse order but actually that's the way that
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  it should happen i'm a professional speaker and
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  everybody thinks oh you write a book first that'll
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  get you to credibility and then you can go on
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  stages when actually No, it's not. The book really
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  doesn't. I use my first book, The Networking
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  Book, almost like a business card. And I don't
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  even, I don't charge for it unless they buy it
• 7:39
  on Amazon. But you did it the right way. So don't
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  think you did it in reverse order. You did it
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  pretty well. Okay. Thank you. By default. I close
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  them as I seize them. Okay. So during your author's
• 7:56
  journey. What relationship proved most valuable
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  to your growth? And what did that connection
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  matter more than others? Say the first part of
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  that question again. During your author's journey.
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  Okay, during my author's journey. What relationship
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  proved most valuable to your growth? And why
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  did that connection matter more than others?
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  So my author's journey started early. It started
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  with the two books that I just described. They
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  were nonfiction books. And I think the relationship
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  that mattered the most in that phase, in that
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  time, was through the CEO peer group. I was in
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  a CEO peer group at that time, and the leader
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  of our CEO peer group was connected around the
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  country. through their network. So that was the
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  Vistage group, if you're familiar with them.
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  And it was that relationship with him and his
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  belief in me and in the work and the content
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  that I was delivering, the persona that I have
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  on stage, the ability to have a presence on stage,
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  and as you said at the beginning, to be memorable
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  after. But his belief in me, I think, was probably
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  the most important thing. Because when you start,
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  when you have material that is not tested, when
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  you're in a speaking format and you're testing
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  different things, sometimes it's hard. Sometimes
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  you fall flat on your face and you always need
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  someone to pick you up. And he was often the
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  guy who picked me up. Everybody needs that one
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  person that they can always turn to, but is always
• 9:47
  there, hook, line and sinker, without even thinking
• 9:50
  they're there. So you're very fortunate that
• 9:54
  you have that person. Many professionals want
• 9:57
  visibility. What's the difference between attention
• 10:01
  and influence and when you're building relationships?
• 10:08
  So interesting question, attention and influence.
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  Now, if you're familiar with Dr. Robert Cialdini,
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  he is the godfather of influence. And he has
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  the seven rules of persuasion and influence.
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  And so there's a science behind influence. There's
• 10:28
  a science behind how you go about creating presence,
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  charisma, reciprocity, all the laws of influence
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  that are like physical laws of gravity, right?
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  They are real. They're ethereal, but they're
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  real. They actually work. They impact relationships
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  and connections and networks. Attention is what
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  is given. Influence is what you design and actually
• 11:00
  create. So like Dr. Cialdini's work, if you study
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  the science, And all influencers, whether they
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  call themselves influencers or are influencers
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  because they earned the right to be, because
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  of their work, their expertise, their experience,
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  would do well to study those laws because the
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  laws that Dr. Cialdini discovered and then packaged
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  will guide people. And I would say... Michael
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  to especially to younger parts of your audience
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  that these laws of influence are timeless they
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  bring wisdom that is lasting and so to be able
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  to understand them and then implement them is
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  a valuable extremely valuable way to up your
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  influence not in a manipulation but in an understanding
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  of the way that the laws work. Very interesting.
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  Very interesting. As your business grew, how
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  did you decide which relationships to invest
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  in more time? Let me try that again because I
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  misread that completely. As your business grew,
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  how did you decide which relationships to invest
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  more time in and which ones to release? Wow.
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  That is a loaded question. Yeah, it is. And I
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  have to say, Michael, especially loaded question
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  for me because I was a single mother of two,
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  divorced. had a new business that was growing
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  like fire, wildfire, and I had some really tough,
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  hard decisions to make related to I was speaking,
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  I was on the road, I had clients, I was on the
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  road, I was flying, I was doing crazy things
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  like that. All things that are great things to
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  grow a business, but as a mother, create some
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  real considerations. So one of my criteria at
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  that time as things were growing was that I would
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  not be away overnight unless I absolutely had
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  to. And so in some ways that may have been detrimental
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  in terms of I was very careful about the conferences
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  that I would go to if I wasn't speaking there.
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  I was very careful about. Those kinds of opportunities
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  that might have opened doors or might have created
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  a broader network. My consideration was my kids,
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  right? My kids and the business and balancing
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  that tension, if you will, was not easy. It was
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  a difficult time. I made some difficult decisions,
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  but I learned the 10 -10 -10 rule. You want to
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  know what the 10 -10 -10 rule is? Sure. So making
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  decisions, I look at who is most impacted by
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  this decision and what would that impact be like
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  on them in 10 days, in 10 months, and in 10 years.
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  So sometimes when I had to say no to a client
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  because of a consideration for my family, my
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  kids, I knew that in 10 days, the client wouldn't
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  care. In 10 months, the client wouldn't care.
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  And in 10 years, certainly the client would never
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  even remember it. And so that became a really
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  good guiding point for me, was to keep that longer
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  -term perspective about where the impact of my
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  decisions really landed. Yeah, I went through
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  almost the same thing. But when I became a professional
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  speaker, I started going on stages and everything
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  else. I did that later in life. I did it after
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  my kids were already married off. So that kind
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  of opened up that time for me. But I still am
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  cognizant of the time because my wife is still
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  home. You know, so I'm not going to go off for
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  every other week or every other day because.
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  I want to spend time with my wife. So I make
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  that same type of decision judging how much time
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  I spend away. I do. Okay. What networking habits
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  separate leaders who attract opportunities from
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  those who constantly chase them? Yes. So this
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  is really interesting in the age of Zoom, right?
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  What I am teaching authors now who are on their
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  author journey is I'm teaching them about visibility.
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  You need visibility to be successful. You need
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  visibility for attracting clients and sales.
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  You need visibility for AI to build a digital
• 16:30
  footprint for you so that you're found, right?
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  Because if you're not visible, you're not viable.
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  But here's what I also know to be true. The next
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  step after visibility is proximity. And proximity
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  is the most powerful. Now you are on stage as
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  a professional speaker. You have proximity to
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  an audience. When we are on Zoom, the Virtual
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  proximity is of an entirely different sort. It
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  has an entirely different nature to it. You don't
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  rub elbows with someone at the back of the room
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  or down the hall. You don't have that opportunity
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  to wait in line to speak to somebody. You have
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  a completely different set of rules, shall we
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  say. Some of the basics are all the same, of
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  course. But what I'm really studying and working
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  with authors now is how do you begin to create
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  proximity in the virtual age and in the age of
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  AI? And proximity becomes so important in the
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  age of AI because there is so much fakery and
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  proximity. brings us together we are rubbing
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  elbows we are getting to know people in a different
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  way in a way that engages vulnerability and authenticity
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  getting to know each other at a deeper level
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  and so it's a very interesting construct to think
• 18:17
  about how do i get to know you michael when you
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  are a square on the screen And I am in an abstract
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  place. And yet we have probably many things to
• 18:32
  talk about and to connect on and also to share,
• 18:35
  to have a connection, to be part of a network,
• 18:38
  to be able to help each other further your work,
• 18:43
  my work. And yet we are two squares on a screen.
• 18:49
  Absolutely. You brought AI into it, and that's
• 18:54
  all part of Zoom, because AI does the minutia,
• 18:59
  the small work, everything else. One thing it
• 19:02
  can't replace or can't perform is the emotion
• 19:05
  behind each person. So as you said, I'm talking
• 19:11
  to a screen. I'm not talking to a room. And I
• 19:15
  can't pick up your vibe. I can't pick up the
• 19:19
  vibe of the room. And that's a huge thing because
• 19:22
  I have to feel that because that's what keeps
• 19:25
  me. That's what gets me pumped and everything
• 19:29
  else. So I pick up the vibe of the room, but
• 19:31
  I don't have any of that. I have you as a small
• 19:35
  square on a Zoom call. And I have to remember,
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  A, you're still a person. behind the square.
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  So I have to figure out how can I make up for
• 19:48
  some of that? But AI can't do that because it's
• 19:54
  void of all emotion. So I can't use it. So it's
• 19:58
  all up to me. It's all up to the person. And
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  that's one thing that AI will never replace the
• 20:04
  person. Make them really close to it because
• 20:07
  they look pretty good, but they can't replace
• 20:10
  us. Okay. And to that point, Michael, what we
• 20:15
  need to do is we need to be really cognizant
• 20:18
  of our energy. Like when we are in the square,
• 20:22
  right? We need to have this energy and presence
• 20:25
  that's bigger than the square. We need to use
• 20:28
  all of our voice. We need to use everything that
• 20:33
  we can't because we're in the square, not on
• 20:36
  the stage. Absolutely. Right behind you. Okay.
• 20:41
  What role does storytelling play in helping people
• 20:45
  trust you faster when they first meet you? Storytelling
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  is the most important skill. A professional,
• 20:59
  an executive, an owner, a CEO can learn storytelling.
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  because storytelling is as old as the caveman.
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  The caveman did it with grunts and signals and
• 21:13
  all of that, little hieroglyphics in the cave
• 21:16
  wall. But storytelling is as old as man. It goes
• 21:21
  back to Adam and Eve, if you will. And storytelling
• 21:24
  connects in a different part of our brain, and
• 21:28
  it triggers emotion, and emotion stays with us,
• 21:33
  right? how I felt about you and your speaking
• 21:36
  is more important and goes deeper than the words
• 21:42
  that you said. Now, there will be words that
• 21:45
  you say that I will remember because you are
• 21:48
  a professional and you have crafted them that
• 21:50
  way. But it's the emotion that's going to carry
• 21:54
  the connection after that. And so storytelling
• 21:59
  is the emotional thread that we share. Storytelling
• 22:03
  is memorable. It's engaging. It transports us.
• 22:07
  If I were to say to your audience, okay, I want
• 22:11
  to tell you a story. Sit back and relax. The
• 22:14
  brain would be washed with this moment of receptivity,
• 22:20
  a moment when the heart opens and the brain is
• 22:23
  open to hearing. And that act alone allows things
• 22:29
  to imprint. And so storytelling becomes an art.
• 22:35
  It becomes a science. It becomes the way that
• 22:38
  an owner, a CEO, an author gets to the heart
• 22:43
  and connects the heart and the brain, the heart
• 22:47
  and the head. Storytelling to me is a skill and
• 22:52
  a talent, right? You have to practice, practice
• 22:56
  performing because if you go out there and you
• 23:00
  tell a story. and you're monotone, and you just,
• 23:03
  you're not going to get your point across. You
• 23:05
  have to add a little life to it. When I, some
• 23:08
  of my clients, when I tell them to, okay, what's
• 23:12
  your 30 second elevator pitch? They'll say, oh
• 23:14
  my God, I have it. It's perfect. I say, good.
• 23:17
  Now let's shrink it down to 10 seconds. And they
• 23:20
  freak out. They freak out. What are you talking
• 23:22
  about? Look, just trust me. So we get it down
• 23:25
  to 10 seconds. I said, okay, it's perfect. Now
• 23:27
  throw it out. That's the part where they really
• 23:32
  love you. Right. And they go, what are you talking
• 23:34
  about? I said, look, if you're going to a chamber
• 23:37
  of commerce or a networking meeting or something
• 23:39
  like that, and you have 30 seconds to say what
• 23:43
  you are, what you do, is that enough time for
• 23:46
  you to truly say what you are and what you do?
• 23:49
  No. Give your name, give your company's name,
• 23:52
  whatever, and give them a feeling that some of
• 23:56
  your clients had. Right. So if you just say,
• 24:02
  look, I'm Michael Foreman, I'm a professional
• 24:03
  speaker, I'm an executive business coach, and
• 24:07
  I help people make money and they feel wonderful
• 24:09
  about it. All of a sudden, all the eyes are going
• 24:13
  to be on me. And how did you do it? See me after.
• 24:17
  And that's really it. I don't go into everything
• 24:20
  that I do. So it's all how you do it. But the
• 24:23
  storytelling is so very important. It is a skill
• 24:26
  and a talent. And you have to nudge it every
• 24:31
  once in a while. Yes. Okay. For someone early
• 24:37
  in their career, what is one relationship they
• 24:41
  should intentionally seek that most people overlook?
• 24:45
  One relationship they should seek. It's not the
• 24:52
  smartest guy in the room that you want to buddy
• 24:57
  up to. It's really the guy, the male or female,
• 25:04
  man or woman, who is the go -to guy. Like we
• 25:10
  have all of our org charts, right? We have all
• 25:14
  of the titles. But who's the real go -to guy?
• 25:19
  That's the guy you want to know. The person who
• 25:23
  has this seemingly endless list of contacts,
• 25:28
  of people they know, of, oh yeah, I know somebody
• 25:31
  you should talk to. That's the guy you want to
• 25:34
  know. And also, that's the guy you want to become.
• 25:39
  The person who is connected for purpose. The
• 25:43
  person who shares connections, who gives way
• 25:47
  more than they get. but who knows who to ask
• 25:51
  and how to ask for themselves and for someone
• 25:55
  else. Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better
• 25:59
  myself. You were spot on with that exact description.
• 26:04
  So let me just bring this podcast full circle.
• 26:07
  And if a listener wants to build both leadership
• 26:11
  presence and meaningful connections in the next
• 26:14
  90 days, what one networking behavior. would
• 26:19
  create the biggest change? Other than having
• 26:22
  you really help them craft their elevator speech,
• 26:26
  I'd say that might be the first one. No, for
• 26:31
  authors, more so than people who want to be on
• 26:35
  stages, but for authors, I would say, learn to
• 26:40
  be bold in your promotional mindset. This is
• 26:44
  true for all people. Be bold in promoting yourself
• 26:49
  and knowing what your success is based on, what
• 26:55
  your expertise is based on. And beyond that,
• 26:58
  what you are distinctive at. Let me tell you
• 27:00
  a story, Michael. It's a real short one. Okay.
• 27:03
  So I have a friend. Years ago, she was going
• 27:06
  to an interview for being an attendant, an airline
• 27:10
  attendant. And so there's this mass call. Right.
• 27:13
  And all these people are waiting around. They
• 27:15
  call them in individually. So she knows that
• 27:17
  she has to be distinctive. Right. She has to
• 27:19
  stand out, stand up and stand out. So she goes
• 27:23
  in the room, they go through the interview. And
• 27:25
  at the end, they're like, so what's unusual about
• 27:28
  you? And she's thinking to herself, oh, my gosh,
• 27:31
  should I do this? Really? And so she says, I'm
• 27:34
  probably the only person here who knows how to
• 27:37
  yodel. And they laughed and they said, would
• 27:40
  you yodel for us? And she did. And they're like,
• 27:44
  okay, you are hired. You showed courage. You
• 27:47
  showed humor. You were brave. You are hired.
• 27:50
  You have the characteristics that we want. Yesterday,
• 27:55
  literally, I had the son of a colleague who was
• 27:59
  looking for a job get on Zoom with me. He said,
• 28:02
  I know I have a problem. I speak in a monotone.
• 28:05
  He said, I don't know what to do about it. I
• 28:07
  don't know what to say to these people. I'm trying
• 28:09
  to get a job and I just want to get a job. So
• 28:12
  we talked about a lot of things. I gave him tips.
• 28:14
  And at the end, I told him the Yodel story. And
• 28:18
  I said to him, at the end of every interview,
• 28:20
  they're going to say to you, so do you have any
• 28:23
  more questions? And what I want you to do is
• 28:27
  to say no. you've answered all my questions but
• 28:30
  here's one thing you should know about me that
• 28:33
  we didn't talk about and then i want you to do
• 28:37
  your yodel whatever your yodel is whatever you
• 28:41
  have that's distinctive you do that So that you're
• 28:45
  memorable. So that they remember you. He's the
• 28:48
  guy who did the X. That's what we all want. That's
• 28:52
  what every author needs. That's what every speaker
• 28:54
  needs. He's the guy. She's the woman who X. Something
• 28:59
  distinctive. And it may be as crazy as yodeling,
• 29:03
  right? But it's distinctive. Learn that. Use
• 29:08
  that. Perfect that. That was great advice. That
• 29:13
  was great advice because everybody wants to stick
• 29:16
  out. Nobody wants to be part of the ocean. They
• 29:19
  want to be part of the wave. So it's absolutely
• 29:22
  right. Kay, this was fantastic. You're a great
• 29:25
  podcast guest. Listen, if somebody wanted to
• 29:30
  contact you, to be mentored by you, to be coached
• 29:35
  by you, or to get your services, what's the best
• 29:38
  way for them to do it? The best way for everyone
• 29:42
  to get into our world, into my world, is to go
• 29:46
  to www .boldauthorsnetwork .com. We hold promo
• 29:52
  hour, which is all about marketing, every Monday
• 29:55
  from 4 to 5 p .m. Eastern. It's a free hour where
• 29:59
  people come and we talk about all things marketing.
• 30:02
  We focus in this hour. on authors and marketing
• 30:08
  in the author world for the author's journey
• 30:10
  so that people, i .e. authors, who hate marketing
• 30:15
  learn to love it. Great. That is wonderful. Listen,
• 30:21
  this conversation reminds us that leadership
• 30:24
  is rarely announced. It's recognized. And it's
• 30:30
  usually recognized through consistent conversations,
• 30:33
  genuine relationships, and the trust you build
• 30:36
  over time. If something you heard today sparked
• 30:40
  an idea, act on it this week. Reach out to someone,
• 30:44
  share a story, or share a conversation that moves
• 30:48
  a relationship forward. Influence grows through
• 30:51
  small, intentional moments. And if you found
• 30:54
  value in this episode, Make sure you like, follow
• 30:57
  and subscribe to Networking Unleashed, building
• 31:00
  profitable connections so you continue getting
• 31:02
  practical insight on networking and communication.
• 31:06
  Share this episode with someone ready to step
• 31:08
  into a stronger. professional presence. If you
• 31:12
  want help strengthening your communication, leadership
• 31:15
  presence, or the way you build relationships,
• 31:18
  visit michelaforman .com to learn how I work
• 31:21
  with professionals, teams, and organizations.
• 31:24
  So until next time, show up consistently, speak
• 31:28
  with purpose, and build connections that make
• 31:31
  people remember you. Kay, again, thank you for
• 31:34
  coming on my podcast. Thank you, Michael. It
• 31:37
  was a pleasure. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go
• 31:44
  anywhere. Let's hear from our sponsors. Henry
• 31:47
  Kaplan, Century 21. When it comes to making the
• 31:50
  biggest financial decision of your life, leave
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  it in the hands of a proven professional, Henry
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  Kaplan. Henry is a global real estate agent with
• 32:00
  Century 21, celebrating his 41st year in business.
• 32:04
  No matter where you're moving, Henry has the
• 32:07
  right connections for you. You can contact Henry
• 32:10
  at 561 -427 -4888. A huge thank you to our guests
• 32:17
  for sharing such insights today. And of course,
• 32:21
  a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners,
• 32:24
  for tuning in and spending your time with us.
• 32:27
  If you're interested in my digital courses, being
• 32:30
  coached or having me come and talk to your company,
• 32:33
  just go to Michael and fill out the request form.
• 32:37
  Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
• 32:41
  It's about being present. So take what you've
• 32:44
  learned today, get out there and make some meaningful
• 32:47
  connections. If you've enjoyed this episode,
• 32:50
  please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a
• 32:53
  review and share it with someone who could use
• 32:55
  a little networking inspiration. Let's keep the
• 32:58
  conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
• 33:02
  Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website, foreman
• 33:06
  .com slash podcasts.