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Discovering Bitcoin with Isaiah Jackson · Discovering Bitcoin

0:01
Yeah, I see the world through an entirely different lens.
0:06
It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you
0:09
hope. Take like we're squandering our
0:12
energy, our life force. So Bitcoin is changing that.
0:16
For me, it's like it's healing energy.
0:20
It gives you a kind of office then feeling right.
0:27
Well. Deep and deep and deep in the
0:30
immortal words of the doors, the time to hesitate us through
0:37
discovering. Isaiah, what's going on?
1:02
Man too. Much brother, glad to be here.
1:05
Glad to be speaking with you. It's a pleasure.
1:08
I'm going to be honest. I think when I was first, what's
1:11
the word, discovering Bitcoin, I you were one of the first
1:16
profiles that I started to follow back in the day.
1:20
She had a real refreshing take with respect to Bitcoin being
1:24
for everybody or anyone. And it was, I don't know, it was
1:31
like a, a, a sense of OK, all right, well, like I'm, I'm
1:36
directionally correct. I don't have to be like a, a, an
1:39
engineer or computer whiz or a tech note or anything like that,
1:44
which is good. So yeah, let's let's keep going.
1:50
And with that, I do want to say you saying that I'm glad that
1:54
you brought that up because my first few years, everybody
1:57
thought you had to be some tech genius sitting in your, you
2:00
know, mom's basement with the hoodie on hacking away, you
2:03
know, sort of the Hollywood depiction.
2:04
So yes, I just definitely want to get that message out that
2:07
Bitcoin is for everyone. And I'm glad that they reached
2:09
somebody like you. And here we are.
2:11
Yeah, man, exactly. It's it's funny how this this
2:14
game works, huh? No, it was.
2:16
It was. And like, obviously back in the
2:19
day there was a lot more funnier memes.
2:21
And I think people are a little bit more humorous and jovial on
2:26
Bitcoin Twitter than they are nowadays, which is it is what it
2:31
is. But you had some great takes,
2:34
man, and still do. And I think, you know, Yeah.
2:38
Anyway, Bitcoin for. Oh, man, I've completely Bitcoin
2:42
and Black America. That was the book.
2:46
Yeah. I picked up a copy of that, read
2:48
through that. It's funny.
2:49
It's a funny book. And obviously I'm Australian and
2:54
I'm a white Australian. So I was like, what's the
2:56
relevance here? But it kind of just amplified
2:59
your your tweets basically. And.
3:06
Appreciate that support, man, because you know, my my
3:09
community is is black Americans, but I feel like anybody could
3:12
take the the ethos of that book and apply it to their own
3:17
communities. Whether that's brace, religion,
3:19
class, age doesn't matter. Bitcoin's for everyone.
3:23
Just take it and apply it to what you need.
3:24
And then I appreciate that support for the away from
3:27
Australia. Well, that's, that's the
3:29
message, isn't it? A lot of people do fail to like
3:34
to, to grok Bitcoin because they think it's not for them.
3:37
They think it's not like it's, it's for as we've already
3:41
discussed, you know, tech notes and things like this or, you
3:44
know, wealthier people or people that are smarter than them or
3:48
whatever the fuck is. And that's just not the case at
3:52
all. It is, it's a tool for
3:55
empowerment. And I was reading, actually you
3:59
did an interview with Mint Layer recently and there was a line on
4:04
there about how you said that it goes beyond price.
4:08
Like we're obviously talking about price a lot nowadays with
4:11
ETFs and treasury companies and all that sort of stuff.
4:15
But ultimately at base, you know, it's, it's kind of about
4:20
agency and economic justice as you put it.
4:24
And that's I think a really key message that we should probably
4:30
bring back somewhat, you know, obviously the price and allows
4:35
for that agency and increases the bandwidth for you to direct
4:39
your time, attention and energy to things you want.
4:45
But it goes beyond that than just having a little bit of
4:49
extra coin in your in your back pocket.
4:51
It's, you know, the powers that be beholden effectively.
4:58
Let me just say this now, if you're listening, you in my
5:02
opinion, become a real Bitcoiner when you can say fuck the price
5:06
because the price to me, and I've been saying this for years
5:10
is we don't we don't have a Bitcoin marketing team.
5:14
The price is the marketing, but marketing is fleeting.
5:17
Meaning if there was no Bitcoin price played, if there was no
5:21
news on it, the fundamentals of Bitcoin still haven't changed at
5:25
all. So once you get to a point in,
5:27
in your mindset where you understand, I'm able to keep my
5:31
wealth, I'm able to keep my private property and it all of
5:34
Bitcoin is, is just, it is showing you how terrible Fiat
5:39
money really is. What you're seeing really isn't
5:42
the price of Bitcoin go up. You're just seeing the value of,
5:46
of Fiat failing as it continues to fail.
5:49
Bitcoin's price will increase in Fiat.
5:52
However, when you are constantly discussing price and constantly
5:55
talking about the ETFs and investment technical analysis,
5:59
you know that those are people's fields and Bitcoin wasn't
6:01
created in the vacuum. So those things do exist, but it
6:04
is a change of mindset when you can say, hey, I have a chance to
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own a percentage of a supply of a permissionless immutable
6:14
currency that can be used for payments to store value for
6:17
anything that you want. And nobody can take it away from
6:20
me. That is so empowering as I saw a
6:23
tweet recently where a guy was like, he wasn't really into
6:25
crypto, but he was like the fact that you can keep your wealth in
6:28
your head. It's, it's, it's such an
6:32
advancement and an innovation that most people really can't
6:35
wrap their heads around it until you explain it to them.
6:37
So that is, that is what I'm trying to get back to.
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And I'm kind of pushing this thing now with, you know, make
6:42
Bitcoin cool again. Like you said, the old days of
6:45
memes were funny. Bitcoins were more, you know,
6:48
cyberpunk were more against the state, not joining it.
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So to say I'm trying to get back to that ethos because I've been
6:54
around since 2013 and early on everybody was, you know, I guess
6:58
the state, you know, it kind of to bridge a gap.
7:00
We're trying to create a, a completely different monetary
7:03
system. But again, it wasn't created in
7:05
the vacuum. So I do understand the price
7:06
call and how people view it, but I also want people to understand
7:10
that you, you don't understand how empowered it is to know that
7:13
I actually own this world for the first time in human history.
7:16
No government can take it from you and it it can't be, you
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know, burned to the ground like a house.
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It can't be destroyed like different assets that people
7:26
have or, or confiscated. This is the first time ever in
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human history. It's so exciting.
7:31
I wish more people understood that and it, it might be more
7:34
exciting than, you know, the depressing.
7:36
Oh my God, my bags are down 10%. Oh my God, it's down 30.
7:40
Who gives a shit man? Like we're talking about long
7:43
term low time preference. Being able to see your wealth
7:47
grow long term is is special and I just want to keep that, keep
7:50
that ethos going in Bitcoin, even though it's not so many of
7:52
us still pushing it. I'm never going to stop.
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That's the focus. I love it.
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How did you discover Bitcoin? Well, let me take you back to
8:01
the olden days. I feel, I feel I tell people all
8:08
the time that the coin is $24.00 and the regular financial
8:12
markets are 8. So when you talk about your age
8:14
in Bitcoin, you just come to about 3 because that's how it
8:17
feels. But back in 2000, let me let me
8:21
start a little bit before when I very first started it because
8:24
there's a little bit of background.
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When I was in college, this is between 2006 and 2011, YouTube
8:31
had just started and I used to go to the stacks in my library
8:36
and often times just look at YouTube videos as deep in
8:40
learning about the financial markets because I was in
8:43
college, which is the broken time of your life.
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I was in college during the housing crash of 2007, 2008.
8:49
So when that happened initially I didn't understand what
8:53
happened. I said I was basically like, how
8:55
do we not have money? Like how do we, how did all the
8:57
prices double, triple? How is the US Mint not able to
9:01
make coins? What is Fiat currency?
9:04
Why is it constantly inflated? What is inflation?
9:07
I was just constantly going down that rabbit hole, you know, I
9:10
would just take a couple beers to the, to the library, go up to
9:13
the 9th floor where nobody can find me and, and sit there for
9:16
hours looking at videos. And one of the things I came
9:19
across was guy was discussing a few different books and when he
9:25
talked about how Fiat currency, how it was created, how the
9:30
Federal Reserve was created, those types of things intrigued
9:34
me. So I was already on the path of
9:35
trying to figure out what Fiat currency was.
9:38
However, I'm a solution based person.
9:40
I didn't see a solution. I just kind of saw what it was.
9:44
And you know, that I at that point, I'm 1920 years old.
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I'm like, OK, well, this is the world we live in.
9:50
I have to find a way outside of that.
9:52
Fast forward to 2013, I'm just out of college.
9:56
I'm, you know, trying to find my way.
9:58
At the time I was teaching computer engineering class in
10:01
high school. And, you know, I was, I was
10:03
basically making just enough money to go back to work.
10:06
For those who, who may not know, I worked in North Carolina,
10:09
which is like the second lowest paying for teachers.
10:12
So basically I was just working to go back to work.
10:15
It, it was just, it seemed like a cycle that wouldn't end.
10:18
And yeah, I know. And, and just to break it down
10:22
even further, put it like this. My bills were 2800 a month.
10:25
I was making 29. So it was basically like, I'm
10:28
just going to work to come, come back to work, hamster.
10:30
Has to be. As the hamster will exactly.
10:33
I was like, I I just have to find a way out of this and and
10:37
look would have it. I'll set the same for you.
10:39
At the time, I had two roommates, 2 two friends from
10:42
college and we're I come home from work another day.
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We always used to sit on our balcony and just kind of discuss
10:50
how shitty our jobs were because, you know, 2324 year
10:53
olds just starting a job. We're like, you know, get this,
10:55
this job sucks. You know, you're at the shit end
10:58
of the stick. And set the scene for you came
11:01
Impala's plan, which is my favorite group of all time.
11:03
We're sitting there drinking some beers, you know, smoking a
11:06
little weed, just kind of trying to distress from the day.
11:10
And we always were talking about ways to make more money.
11:13
And it was always, you know, dumb stuff like, oh, let's have
11:16
a yard sale or get a second job, you know, whatever.
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And one day my roommate Nick, shout out to Nick, he comes in
11:25
and and at this time, he's currently working at Charles
11:28
Schwab, surprisingly. And the year is 2013.
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He was working at Charles Schwab and apparently they had a
11:33
meeting at his job discussing this weird, crazy invention
11:38
called Bitcoin. And my, and my major was in
11:43
computer science and I was sort of the computer guy.
11:47
My other roommate, he was in construction engineering and he
11:49
was in banking. I was a computer science guy.
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So when he brought it up, he said, I have no clue what
11:54
Bitcoin is. I don't know what the fuck they
11:55
were talking about. I don't know what this is.
11:58
It seems weird. It seems fake.
12:00
But if Charles Schwab is discussing it, he was like, it
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must be something. So he was like, Isaiah, you
12:05
probably know more than me. You can probably look more into
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it. And my other roommate, Brad, as
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he says that, he says, you know, I saw this guy named Max Keiser.
12:16
He's always yelling about Bitcoin.
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I saw him say it before, but I never looked into it.
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And and, and funny enough, Max Keiser is now my mentor and him
12:25
and his wife Stacey, I thought with him all the time.
12:27
So he mentioned Max Keiser and at the time he's on hearty
12:32
Report, which is, you know, the very popular news channel.
12:35
And he's like, yeah, this guy Max is always screaming about
12:37
Bitcoin. He's saying always, you know,
12:39
you should get something, you're going to lose all your money fee
12:40
out his trash. But I never really listened to
12:42
it because I don't feel like, you know, I don't I don't know
12:45
enough about taking computers to get into Bitcoin.
12:47
Seems like the techie again, that's what most people thought
12:50
it was the techie hacker type thing where you you have to be
12:54
you have to get on tour and you got to have playing and routing
12:56
and you got to have all these different things and when he
12:59
presented it to me I went did probably four or five hours of
13:03
research I didn't get any sleep that night because once I went
13:05
down to arrival hall I watched about 5 or 6 Max guys of videos
13:09
I saw an article about the Winklevoss twins who run Gemini
13:14
currently. They were saying that the value
13:17
proposition of Bitcoin would make it 100,000 someday with I
13:20
was like, that's crazy. Bitcoin won't be 100,000.
13:23
And at the time, Bitcoin was about $200.
13:27
As we sit here today, Bitcoin has already went past 100,000 up
13:30
to, you know, about 1:20. So, you know, looking back 12
13:33
years ago, I was like, that's impossible.
13:34
Like we're not going to get to that point in my lifetime.
13:36
You know, this little basically plaything that you can send
13:41
money online, cool, but nobody's going to take it serious.
13:43
But after reading the white paper, and let me just put this
13:46
in here, if you were talking Bitcoin with somebody, ask if
13:49
they read the white paper first. It'll save you a lot of time
13:53
because the white paper. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
13:58
But I know people have family members who want to debate it
14:01
and go back and forth. And it's like, hey, hey, read
14:03
the white paper first. Because once you see the
14:05
elegance of the design, the the innovation in that paper, the
14:09
best 9 pages I've ever read, you start to see the fact that hold
14:14
up there is a solution to what I've been looking at in college.
14:16
I've been reading these books, I've, I've seen these articles,
14:20
I think people discuss what Fiat currency is.
14:22
I've seen how Bitcoin or I, I'm seeing now how Bitcoin can
14:25
change that. What exactly can I do to get
14:27
involved? And the way I discovered
14:29
Bitcoin, Nick brought it up, Brad put me on Max Keiser.
14:33
And from that point, October 2013, I was like, OK, well, how
14:36
can I get Bitcoin? You know, it's, it wasn't many
14:39
exchanges. The only exchange back then that
14:41
I knew of was Mount Gox. For those who don't know Mount
14:44
Gox, they shut down shortly after that.
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But you know, I had enough. I guess you could say intuition
14:51
because Mount Gox's price was always a hundred, $200 more than
14:54
every other exchange. And I was like, something's not
14:56
right here. I'm not at the time, I'm like,
14:58
I'm not a huge genius, but that doesn't seem right, you know, if
15:02
something's going on there. Of course, I was right about
15:04
that. So I didn't buy from Mount Gox,
15:06
but I did find a software called Bis BISQ.
15:10
So Bis software, which is still around now, they have an option
15:13
for you, for you to meet peer-to-peer.
15:16
And what I did was I went to the coffee shop on Hillsborough
15:19
Street. I get the name of the coffee
15:21
shop, but I me and my roommate Brad used to go there all the
15:23
time. Went to this coffee shop, met a
15:25
random guy who again, it seemed like a drug deal.
15:31
You know, back back in those days, you weren't sure if they
15:33
were trying to get you or if they were trying to, you know,
15:35
whatever. So I meet a guy at the at the
15:39
coffee shop. Regular cool got cool dude and
15:42
he's like you know, you do you really believe in this Bitcoin
15:44
stuff? He's like I, I have a few and I
15:46
was using this site called Silk Road.
15:48
This is the first time I heard of Silk Road because I was using
15:50
a site named Silk Road. I was really just buying weed
15:53
and and buying you know clothing and stuff like that.
15:56
But it just doesn't seem like it's just a little fake Internet
15:58
currency. And I was like, I think it's
15:59
more than that but I'll take a chance.
16:01
So my first time getting Bitcoin, I bought 2 bitcoins for
16:05
$400.00 and at the time my savings account was $438.
16:11
So I spent 400 of that on 2 bitcoins.
16:13
And the reason I did it? Yeah, exactly.
16:15
And, and this was my reasoning at the time and still even sort
16:18
of today, the only people who were very adamant about Bitcoin
16:22
almost as soon as they heard about it were people who were
16:25
too rich to care. Meaning, hey, I can drop a few
16:28
1000 on this, who cares? Or people like myself who were
16:30
too poor to care. I was like, what's the worst
16:32
that could happen? I'm still be poor.
16:33
I all right, whatever it's, it's worth a shot.
16:37
You know, like, who cares? Because again, like I said, the
16:40
people who are in the middle, the middle class people who have
16:43
the bills, who have the kids, who have the, the, the
16:47
responsibilities, they're a little bit, you know, less
16:51
likely to take it on, take on something new.
16:53
They're like, look, I just want to pay these bills, take care of
16:55
my kids, pay my mortgage and, and you know, go golfing and go
16:58
vacationing once a year. Like I'm good.
17:00
I don't want anything new. But I was in a position where I
17:03
was already broke. I was first out of college,
17:05
didn't have anything to lose and all the energy in the world,
17:08
2423 years old and I'm like, let's, you know, let's do this.
17:11
So I bought my first two bitcoins there and when I when I
17:15
got them from him, he gave me flash drive, put it in the
17:18
computer, 2 bitcoins on my Bitcoin wallet from bitcoin.org.
17:22
Old school. I know.
17:23
And you know, it was crazy because again, the person I
17:26
bought it from really didn't know what they had.
17:29
I'm pretty sure he had hundreds, maybe thousands of Bitcoin.
17:32
I don't know where that guy is now, but he was like, yeah, I
17:35
got plenty of Bitcoin. I just, I just don't, people
17:37
don't really want to buy it. I just use it to buy things
17:40
because that's what Bitcoin was originally, peer-to-peer cash.
17:42
So that's my initial, my so to say, initial block of
17:49
information and how I got into Bitcoin.
17:52
So it was a lot different in 2013.
17:54
I put it there, but that's how it started.
17:57
That was that's the genesis, the genesis block.
18:00
That's I mean, so yeah, there's there's a bit to unpack there.
18:07
I mean, the framing first start of that kind of bell curve that
18:12
you kind of alluded to, you know, you're the two rich on one
18:15
side, too poor on the other. And so you're you're more
18:18
incentivized effectively to yeah, cool.
18:21
Well, what's the worst that can happen?
18:23
And everyone else is just mid curving it.
18:25
And that that's, I mean, gosh, actually that's a really great
18:29
framing. We have, we have the best move.
18:34
We have the best meme ever. That meme is so true.
18:37
The meme of, you know, on one side is the poor idiots, Another
18:40
side is the Super rich people, and then in the middle is the
18:44
actual stupid people. Yeah.
18:45
Yeah, yeah, because they're overthinking everything and,
18:48
and, and trying to figure out. I mean, you mentioned reading
18:51
the white paper. I remember I first I forced
18:54
myself to read the white paper because like I'm, you know, I'm,
18:58
I, I can, I can work my way around a computer and I can
19:01
persist, particularly if, if I want to get something sorted,
19:06
you know, like, I don't know, I've, I've around a little bit,
19:11
but I am not like intuitive, you know, that sort of thing.
19:16
And I remember reading the white paper and, and having no clue
19:19
what the hell it meant, except for the fact that it said
19:21
electronic cash, you know, peer-to-peer version of
19:25
electronic cash. I was like, well, OK, let's see
19:28
if it's a jive with everything else that people are talking
19:32
about it. And there was actually the
19:34
conclusion as well, which stood out to me as well.
19:36
The, the notion of creating a, a transaction without relying on
19:40
trust, which I, which I appreciated, but that in no way,
19:45
shape or form can I hold my hand in my heart and say that I got
19:50
exactly what the hell they were talking about in chapter 2 or,
19:54
you know, proof of work, any of that thing like that.
19:57
That took learning from others and thinking over it and getting
20:02
obsessed. As you said, like that first
20:03
night, you just go down the rabbit hole and you're just
20:06
watching all these videos. I'm surprised as well.
20:09
I saw Max Kaiser back in the day doing the same thing and it
20:14
turned me off a little bit because I was like, oh, just
20:17
like, chill. It's it's like, calm down this.
20:19
Is crazy game. Every conversation I have with
20:25
every conversation I have with Max, I always tell him, you
20:28
know, when I first discovered you, I thought you was literally
20:30
bat shit crazy. And he was like, well, that that
20:33
was the goal. He was like, if a crazy person
20:34
screams something long enough, you start thinking, all right,
20:36
let me, let me see what this dude is going on about because
20:39
he didn't need Bitcoin. I mean, he was he had already
20:41
created the first digital securities on Wall Street back
20:44
in the 80s or 90s. Like he was pretty good money
20:47
wise, but he really didn't need Bitcoin.
20:49
That's why I kind of was like, all right, this, this dude
20:51
doesn't need Bitcoin. He's pretty doing pretty well,
20:54
but he's yelling about the future of finance, the Bitcoin,
20:56
everything else. Let me check it out.
20:58
But I think more people were on your side.
21:00
They were like, all right, that's kind of turned me off.
21:02
Let's do this. It's crazy.
21:05
Hey, it's a tactic that worked and cut through the people that
21:09
that needed it then and I was just mid caving it, you know,
21:13
hand on my heart. That's fine.
21:17
When you when you were like, did you did any of your college
21:21
buddies, your roommates, were they going down that similar
21:25
path as well? And were you, were you thinking
21:29
along the lines of store value? Because, you know, obviously Max
21:33
was saying it's going to go to 100K or it was the Winklevoss
21:36
rather. So were you immediately grokking
21:40
it as that sort of store value? But then when you were buying
21:44
it, you were buying it from a dude that was treating it as,
21:46
you know, a medium of exchange. And so were you kind of just, I
21:52
mean, I don't know, you just must have been reconciling both
21:55
of those or something? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
21:58
And I'll tell you how I thought about it was, you know, Bitcoin,
22:02
you know, money itself, it starts as a collectible, goes to
22:05
the store value, then a medium of exchange and then unit of
22:08
account, which at the time I didn't know that.
22:11
But after reading hours and hours and hours of posts on
22:16
Bitcoin forums and bitcointalk.org, the OG forum
22:20
space, people smarter than myself, they were saying that
22:23
yes, Bitcoins looked at as collectible, you can use it, but
22:26
you don't really have to if you don't want to.
22:28
And they said at a certain point I would see different posts
22:31
where they're saying at a certain point people are going
22:33
to look at it as a storage of value as the value of Bitcoin
22:36
increases long term. And I don't really remember
22:41
exactly what post it was that that showed me the store value
22:44
aspect, but it was a guy that was basically saying he was
22:48
like, yes, it could be a store value, but don't think that is
22:50
the only use case of Bitcoin. The store value comes naturally
22:55
whenever you can look every four years, every eight years, you're
22:57
like, yes, my Fiat value of Bitcoin is increased.
23:01
Sure. However, as far as peer-to-peer
23:04
working outside of the system, the sort of cypher, cypherpunk
23:07
ethos that that was sort of a parallel thinking that I had,
23:10
I'm like, hey, yes, I can use it outside the system.
23:12
I don't have to report to anybody.
23:14
I don't have to tell anybody anything.
23:16
It was so cool that I would just pay for food with Bitcoin for
23:19
now. At that time, you could get gift
23:21
cards with Bitcoin and use it. Certainly.
23:22
I was like, man, this is so cool.
23:23
I don't ever have to use a bank if I if I don't have to, if I
23:26
don't want to and store value the the marketing behind store
23:31
value. I would say where people like
23:32
store value, never say a Bitcoin hold it.
23:34
That is necessary because that is the foundation of why people
23:38
would want to get Bitcoin or any money system.
23:41
They have to feel like my savings mean something, which is
23:44
the same reason why people are constantly talking about Bitcoin
23:46
being backed by gold and you know the wood Bretton Woods and
23:51
Bretton Woods 2 point O and you know 1971 when we got off the
23:55
gold standard. People don't understand that for
23:57
money to be trusted for us to have consensus amongst each
24:01
other, then there has to be a either store value in place as
24:06
as the backing so to say for people to trust it or
24:11
essentially what you have is what we have now yeah it's just
24:13
coupon you have IO us. There is nothing saying that you
24:17
can go and turn your cash into gold like we have before.
24:20
So with Bitcoin, what I started realizing was well, Bitcoin
24:23
doesn't necessarily need backing.
24:25
It is the backing. It is the foundation.
24:28
So in in essence, that's why people I remember 2015 sixteen
24:32
people started calling it digital gold.
24:34
People started saying this, you know, store value, which is
24:36
fine. However, don't forget the steps
24:39
that are coming and I think with the introduction of things like
24:43
peer-to-peer Bitcoin payments on Square, even though it's
24:46
centralized service, good friends with Jack Dorsey on Cash
24:49
App that introduced 4 million people to Bitcoin payment.
24:53
Those types of things will start happening after the next 10
24:56
years. You'll start to see that as the
24:58
volatility in Bitcoin goes down. But it's really just, it's
25:01
really just the mindset that people have.
25:04
Are you trying to get outside of the system or are you trying to
25:06
get rich inside the same system that you have?
25:08
That's your choice because again, Bitcoin is for everybody
25:11
for you to do whatever you want with it.
25:13
But in my opinion, Bitcoin has peer-to-peer outside of the
25:16
system, works much better and allows people to operate without
25:21
a third party having to breathe down your neck and KYC you to
25:25
death because good gracious, I mean, everything is KYC now.
25:28
I mean, you can't can't do anything without them having to
25:30
to know. So I still believe in that
25:32
ethos. And, and long term, once we get
25:35
to, you know, payment reels and all of those things are built,
25:38
at a certain point, people will be able to take the Bitcoin they
25:41
have, pay their employees or pay themselves, pay for their real
25:45
estate, their mortgages, things like that, It'll become a lot
25:49
easier for people to understand it.
25:51
So it's just a work in progress. As I, as I like to say, Bitcoin
25:55
is, is only 16 years old. If you remember when you were 16
25:58
years old, that that's a tough age.
26:00
You're going through a lot of changes.
26:01
Your body's changing. You don't know, you know,
26:03
chemistry is different. You got a little beard.
26:05
You don't know what's going on, stopping the girls trying to get
26:09
out of high school. You don't know what you're going
26:10
to do with your life. That's where I think Bitcoin is
26:12
now. Like we're in this growing phase
26:14
where you're not really sure where it's going to go.
26:16
You just know that it's definitely going to increase in
26:18
value over time. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the
26:22
move. And just as the meme goes, man,
26:25
focus on your craft. It's yeah, lower your time
26:29
preference, focus on your craft and just get on.
26:32
I just want to bring you back real quick to when you were sort
26:37
of like pre Bitcoin, but you were going down that path of oh,
26:41
like something's up in the banking system.
26:43
The money is kind of getting screwed here.
26:46
What's this notion? What is the concept of sound
26:49
money? And I presume, you know, or I
26:53
infer what you've, what you're saying, you, you kind of was
26:56
going down the creature from Jekyll Island rabbit hole and
27:01
maybe, I don't know, touching on Bretton Woods, Nixon shark,
27:04
things like this. And most people that went down
27:08
those holes, those rabbit holes and learnt that information,
27:11
that history, say pre Bitcoin, that kind of state, you just get
27:16
into a cul-de-sac of like, all right, well, I guess I'll just
27:20
buy some gold and silver and hope for the best.
27:25
But you know, or, or even just holding any form of libertarian
27:30
ethos, ethics and you kind of can't bring it into the real
27:37
world. It just remains it like it's a
27:40
real thing. Like praxeology is the real
27:43
thing, Libertarian ideals, the golden rule, it's a real thing.
27:47
Civilizations were effectively built up on that on those two
27:50
things like without even consciously being aware of them.
27:55
But because of the insidious nature of effectively the state,
28:00
the logic of its violence, etcetera, it's so difficult to
28:04
over overcome that. And like with any kind of, you
28:10
know, if if we're talking about energy exchange, which is, you
28:13
know, kind of what money can represent, yeah, you just get
28:18
stuck in reading these, these this history and then being
28:22
like, OK, well, the path is either AI know that information,
28:27
but I just try and crack on as best I can or BI turn into a
28:30
crazy person telling everyone that the world's fucked.
28:35
But then you got Bitcoin and you're like, oh shit, now I can
28:38
actually practically enforce the golden rule, you know, the non
28:43
aggression principle and all of these other things at a state
28:46
level, like that's you can scale it all the way up.
28:50
It's nuts. And, and I want to say if I ever
28:56
had an advantage in Bitcoin, I would say that I discovered it.
28:59
I discovered the solution right after I found the problem.
29:02
So some people, like you said, they knew the problem, they knew
29:06
what what the issues were, but there was no, no type of
29:08
solution to it outside of, like you said, buy some gold and
29:11
silver and hope for the best. But I could only imagine the
29:15
mindset of, yeah, I know this, this issue exists and but
29:18
there's real essentially nothing I can do about it.
29:21
So whenever I talk to people about Bitcoin, I always start
29:24
off with the why, what it is I was created.
29:28
That can come later. But when you start with the why,
29:30
I think that puts people in the mindset that, yeah, this is
29:33
something, this is an issue that has been getting worked on or
29:36
has been discussed for a long time.
29:39
I mean, we can go back to Henry Ford in the early 1900s was
29:44
saying that there's going to be an energy currency at some point
29:49
that is going to be able to be transacted in value because
29:52
everything is based off energy. Energy is a real currency.
29:55
Fast forward 100 years. Elon Musk just finished the
29:58
interview where he said those exact words.
30:00
Energy is the real currency. Bitcoin is energy.
30:03
And when you see things like that, that kind of takes away
30:07
the quote UN quote crazy person feeling, You know, because when
30:10
you, when you have Titans of industry like Henry Ford and 100
30:14
years later, Elon Musk is saying the same thing.
30:16
You're like, well, I'm not really a crazy person.
30:19
I'm actually on the same level as them as far as thinking,
30:23
because once you understand what money is and how money operates
30:27
and you see there's a solution for it, you're actually crazy
30:30
not to have Bitcoin. That's what I always tell you.
30:32
I flip it on them in that way like, well, it's actually kind
30:35
of crazy for you to, to know these things and still say,
30:37
well, well, I'm just going to flip through life and, and hope
30:40
for the best. Unfortunately, those numbers
30:43
outweigh the people who actually understand the why of Bitcoin,
30:48
but that that will change it at some point.
30:51
I always say the the real flipping will happen when most
30:55
people prefer Bitcoin when they're like, no, I'm not
30:58
dealing this PR current. It's it's slowly you can see
31:01
that the crack coming. I believe just just based on
31:05
market cycles and and where we're headed, you're going to
31:07
see a lot of disclosure of certain things.
31:09
You're going to see the everything bubble.
31:12
And I don't think we're going to have a housing bubble.
31:13
We're going to have housing, credit, everything bubble.
31:17
I think you're starting to see the crack where people are going
31:20
to their grocery store. They may not understand
31:21
inflation, but my eggs used to be $3, now seven.
31:25
OK, something's wrong here. I'm just for example.
31:29
Supply chains, man, it's still supply chains.
31:31
It's it's supply, yeah. Supply chains, man, We just.
31:35
Dumped a bunch. Of milk during COVID all over
31:37
the ground. But with supply chains, man.
31:39
And supply chains. It's not the fucking money.
31:43
Exactly. And and another thing I'm, I'm
31:45
definitely adamant about is teaching Bitcoin to kids college
31:48
level and, and below because they have no trust in the
31:52
system. That's what I love to hear
31:54
talking to a 21 year old like, hey, do you think you're going
31:57
to be able to buy a house by the time you're 30?
31:59
And they're like, fuck no, that is impossible.
32:01
It's already half a million. It'll be $1,000,000 for a
32:03
starter home by the time I can get it.
32:05
What's what's, what's something I can do to mitigate that
32:08
inflation or to go against it. And the younger generation is
32:11
much more acceptant. They were born in the Internet.
32:13
They they've seen Bitcoin, they've seen all the other
32:16
cryptocurrency. And if he's what they've seen
32:18
all of this stuff in their younger years.
32:21
So they're able to take the Y and say, OK, well, this makes
32:24
sense. Where can we take this?
32:26
So the next generation, I think will be a little bit different
32:28
than the current one as millennial.
32:31
And if people are older, we saw what it used to be and you know,
32:34
changing to something new is different.
32:36
But if this is all they've had as kids, I'm so excited because
32:39
I'm like, this is all they know. They, they know how to send
32:43
payments. They know about digital wallets,
32:45
whether it was Bitcoin or not, what is Robux, Roblox, sorry, or
32:50
Fortnite book. They understand the digital
32:52
aspect of it. So I'm very encouraged that long
32:55
term, these kids that I'm teaching, I'm like, they're
32:58
going to wipe the floor mostly because they already understand
33:00
it at such a young age and they have all the time and energy to
33:03
build the tools that are going to take us over the bridge to
33:06
21st century economy, though. I love, love hearing about that.
33:09
And just the fact that, you know, a little bit of crazy is
33:13
good. The reason I fell in love with
33:16
Bitcoiners is because everyone I met was a little bit off and not
33:20
in a bad way. It was like, I don't know, the
33:22
meme of, you know, people are the artistic or people are, you
33:26
know, just weird sort of, but that was always cool to me is
33:30
like, you're different. Everybody being the same is, is
33:33
crap. Like I, I, I hate that.
33:35
I hate the fact when people, the cogs in the machine, everybody's
33:37
wearing the same clothes, everybody speaks the same,
33:40
they're on the same social media, they use the same, you
33:42
know, the same stuff. It's like, Nah, Nah.
33:44
I like meeting some of the weird guys that you know, I my
33:48
favorite characters in movies was always the Super conspiracy
33:51
dude with disheveled hair and didn't shower for three days,
33:54
but he had all the information in his little van or whatnot.
33:58
That dude was always the smartest dude every movie.
34:00
Weird is the superpower man for sure.
34:03
Yeah, exactly. Lean in.
34:05
Keep Bitcoin weird, that's what I would say.
34:09
Yeah, the the whole like notion of kids coming up and grokking
34:13
it straight off the bat. And you know, that fuel
34:17
despondency, I mean, it, it, it could potentially go one of two
34:21
ways. You know, individually, you
34:26
know, you might just completely get despondent and turn into an
34:29
existentialist or a nihilist. And, and that's no good.
34:33
But notionally, if you got a mentor or a person that can show
34:37
you a different path and then you already intuitively grok all
34:42
that stuff. And I think one of the roles of
34:45
certainly of millennials is that we need to because we, we, we've
34:51
seen what it could be. You know, I feel like I grew up
34:56
in the era of just the right amount of tech, like just the
35:00
right amount of technology in my life to make it slightly more,
35:04
perhaps entertaining, easier, etcetera, etcetera.
35:09
But now it's just like pervasive and all-encompassing and it's
35:12
distracting and it's a giant. It can be, you know, if you
35:17
don't have that mindset to use it as a tool, the learning
35:20
knowledge, making life slightly easier.
35:22
Yeah, it can be a really dark, a dark thing.
35:27
But the notion is that we've kind of seen a world before all
35:30
of this before the Internet really took off, certainly
35:33
before Bitcoin really took off. One would say it's probably not
35:38
even taken off yet. But the point is that we can
35:42
then maybe show them that the younger cohort like, OK, we've
35:49
got all this cool shit now, but let's go back.
35:52
Like let's embed some of the older values or ethics or just
35:57
just the way of being in life where, you know, quality family
36:01
time, all of these sorts of things that are just they kind
36:04
of make a civilization. I guess is is where I'm trying
36:08
to get AT. And not to say that the 90s, I
36:11
think I do. I do actually have a thought
36:13
that I think back in the 90s was like peak civilization.
36:16
We kind of began to lose it around 2005 maybe.
36:20
I don't know. Yeah, if I can ask how, how old
36:24
are you? I ain't saying shit about fuck.
36:31
It's all good. But I'm I'm with you there
36:32
because this is, this is one of the not debates, but discussions
36:36
that I've had with people. I said as deep as I am in
36:38
technology, I have regress, so to say, from using it as much
36:43
simply because I want to get back to that 90s world where you
36:47
had the option to use technology, but it wasn't
36:51
necessary. So to say, for example, I
36:54
remember like for you, you said around 2005.
36:57
I, I would say after 911 happened in America, I think
37:00
America started going down after 2001.
37:04
So we're kind of in the same, same area, but I, I just
37:06
remember around that age when I was in high school, you could,
37:11
we had a computer at the house, but it wasn't all-encompassing.
37:14
I wasn't staring at it for 12 hours.
37:16
In fact, if you were not outside riding bikes, skateboarding,
37:20
playing basketball, playing, you know, with your friends, going
37:22
to the mall, if you weren't doing that, you really were not
37:25
a part of the type. Nowadays, it's flipped.
37:28
If you're not online and you're not the, the faces I get when I
37:31
tell people I don't use certain social media, it's, it's
37:34
hilarious because I'm like, who cares in real life?
37:36
I'm outside. I do real life stuff.
37:39
Who cares if I don't use Instagram?
37:40
Who cares if I haven't had Facebook in eight years?
37:42
Like I just got rid of a lot of stuff.
37:44
Also, I, I invested in a farm. Just sort of getting back to
37:48
that ethos where I'm like, look, I want to grow my own food.
37:51
I want to live in the real world.
37:52
I want to touch grass. I want to be around my family.
37:55
I don't want technology to run my life.
37:57
I see the benefit, obviously. I mean, I use AI every day and
38:00
I'm like, Jesus Christ, this. I can do the work with 10 people
38:04
within an hour. However, I also know that AI can
38:07
be very dangerous because it's, it's taking all the information
38:11
is going to make the younger, a lot of the younger generation
38:13
dumb if they don't actually read and touch books.
38:16
I've also started collecting DVDs, CDs, physical book.
38:22
I've, I've just started doing that because I was like, that
38:24
was the perfect time where it's like, OK, I have the option to
38:27
use this technology, but I also have encyclopedias where I can
38:30
thumb my fingers through it and read what people were writing in
38:33
the 1920s, nineteen 30s, nineteen, you know, without
38:36
there being this global surveillance state that
38:39
basically, I mean, it's, it's 1984.
38:41
No intermediaries man, you can just read the book.
38:44
Yeah, no, it's, I want to read it.
38:46
Yeah, exactly, 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm seeing stuff that I remember
38:49
distinctly learning. And then one day they just was
38:51
like, no, just that. That's not right.
38:54
The memory hole different. Yeah, it's a memory hole.
38:57
Yeah, I I mean, when I was a kid, Pluto existed and then on
39:00
just one day they were like, no, that's not a planet.
39:03
What the fuck? I was like just certain stuff
39:06
like that where I'm like it has a.
39:09
Lot to answer for man. I used to look up to that dude
39:12
but I don't know. I think he's mid Kevin.
39:16
They just, they come off as smart when in actuality they're
39:19
just smarter than the people they're talking to.
39:21
Not not exactly intellectual, so to say, but you're right.
39:25
I, I think there was a time we got to see, in my opinion, the
39:27
greatest time period where you had technology if you wanted it,
39:31
but you also lived in the real world.
39:33
One of the funniest things I've noticed while I was talking to a
39:36
friend that works remote, I was like, you know, there was a time
39:39
where everybody had to go to work.
39:42
You know, there was no remote work.
39:43
There was, you know, stay at home moms and maybe cleaning
39:46
ladies, but everybody got up and went to work.
39:49
So, you know, you have to see people.
39:51
We had lunch. It was much more vibrant.
39:53
Everybody was outside. I just remember, you know, a lot
39:56
of streets at night, people were outside talking to each other,
39:59
having conversations because nobody wanted to sit us out on
40:01
the computer. Nobody was on the phone.
40:03
Nobody was, you know, as you said, distracting them because I
40:06
think there's more distraction than it is helping a lot of
40:09
people. So, yeah, I'm, I'm with you
40:10
there. I've taken the steps to try and
40:12
get that balance and, you know, keep that, keep that ethos going
40:16
forward. Quick break just to say if
40:18
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Thank you for listening and thank you for your.
40:57
Support How has discovering Bitcoin changed you?
41:07
I would say everything about my existence has pretty much
41:11
changed after you go down to bit with my rabbit hole because the
41:15
key, the key element I would say is I don't trust anymore.
41:21
I verify and I would say for everything, I mean science,
41:25
history, everything, no matter what comes out of somebody's
41:28
mouth or what somebody says or what somebody is is trying to
41:31
propose, I trust no one. I verify everything.
41:34
And with Bitcoin, that is the basic mechanism of why it works
41:40
and why decentralization is great, a trustless system, so to
41:43
say, and you can verify it on your own.
41:46
So I think that's how it's changed me the most.
41:50
Long term, I would say Bitcoin has changed me to where I'm much
41:55
more adamant about generational wealth, about keeping your
41:58
wealth, about private property rights.
42:01
I would say Bitcoin termed me way more libertarian.
42:04
I didn't know what libertarian was at all until I was probably
42:09
2526, but it took me down arrival whole of you know, what
42:12
is freedom? What is the ability to do for
42:14
self? What are the things you need to
42:16
do in order to get to that point?
42:19
It actually makes you realize, OK, well, if I want to be truly
42:22
independent, I need to learn to be educated on a bunch of
42:25
things. I need to learn about my farm.
42:27
I need to learn about soil, crop, how to grow food and how
42:30
to keep up with seasons. And I need to learn to text that
42:34
so that I can optimize what I'm doing.
42:36
I have to know about history. I have to know about cycles and
42:39
market cycles financially. So it, it basically made me an
42:44
autodidact as well, a self learning, willing to teach
42:47
myself before I would rely on somebody else.
42:50
And when you're a kid, they sort of look at that as rebellious.
42:55
I was seen as very rebellious when I was younger, but what it
42:57
actually was was me. It was my inside trying to come
43:00
out like, no, why can't I learn? Why can't I know this?
43:03
There's nothing any human being can can do or say to me that I
43:07
don't think I can at some point do myself.
43:10
So I think that's how it changed me.
43:11
For me, more libertarian I trust, I don't verify and I've
43:14
turned into autodidactic. If if you have that tendency to
43:18
be an autodidact from the get go, whether or not you, you
43:23
know, like I mean, you know, you, you were teaching yourself
43:27
up on that 9th floor the history of money, banking, etcetera,
43:32
uncovering a problem effectively.
43:34
And then you thankfully figured out the solution to, you know,
43:39
timing wise being what it is, obviously, which we discussed.
43:44
But there's that there's that notion that you already had that
43:47
in you, that you were an autodidact, that you were
43:49
willing to go out into the world and experience it and bring back
43:55
new knowledge without being coerced, compelled.
43:59
You had an impulse in you effectively for learning,
44:02
education, understanding. And you know, that's sets a lot
44:07
of Bitcoiners apart. I think in that particularly
44:13
sort of like this earlier, this earlier cohort, you know,
44:16
within, you know, the last decade or so.
44:19
I think like we, we have this notion of being early.
44:22
And I think everyone that's discovered Bitcoin at the moment
44:26
is a part of that camp. But Bitcoin is, is like a I've
44:34
mentioned this on the part before, but it kind of amplifies
44:38
who you are as a person in terms of not, not it itself.
44:44
The protocol doesn't do that. But you engaging with it and
44:47
interacting with it, it, it has an amplification effect that is
44:54
completely neutral. But once you engage in it as an
44:59
individual, it kind of takes your best personality traits or
45:03
all of your personality traits really, maybe.
45:06
And you know, yeah, it turns them up.
45:08
And and as you said, like you've pivoted to having this this farm
45:12
and it's like, well, it's not just enough to have a bit of
45:16
land. Like it's got to produce.
45:18
And you can't just produce infinitely.
45:22
It has to have energy put back into the soil.
45:26
Like you got to regenerate that soil.
45:27
You got to put life back into it.
45:31
Otherwise you're just taking, taking, taking.
45:34
But you got to think about all of these things and how it
45:36
works. And if you aren't internally,
45:39
like if you don't have that impulse to pursue that, you're
45:42
going to just exhaust effectively all your resources,
45:47
whatever they'd be, whether they're soil, mental health,
45:51
like what money, bank account, etcetera.
45:56
And yeah, like it's, it's wild that that bitcoins kind of from
45:59
what you've just had anyway, it sounds like it's, it's, it's
46:02
taking all of the things that you are as an individual and
46:06
it's kind of like just cranked him up a bit since discovering.
46:09
It's cool. Volume.
46:12
Yeah, yeah, just to just to add on to that, just you don't get
46:17
something for nothing. And I think that's a very simple
46:20
concept, but it's very hard for people to acknowledge simply
46:24
because our current system has basically built on on nothing.
46:29
Getting something for nothing. Why do you gain?
46:33
Why is the why is the value of your house more and you haven't
46:36
fixed the door not 20. You know what I mean?
46:38
Like, why, why is you get these? Why is used to be popular?
46:43
Why is it? Why is getting loans the way to
46:45
build all these things are something for nothing.
46:48
And when you start to realize, like I said, the farm has taught
46:51
me a lot as well. If I don't put anything into
46:54
that farm or if I don't have anybody working and putting into
46:57
the soil and and constantly feeding it, you, you end up with
47:00
nothing. You're going to be hungry all
47:01
once. So something for nothing is the
47:05
ethos of where most people view money system.
47:09
But when you start realizing, no, there has to be work within
47:12
in order to produce a supply and when that supply is scarce, of
47:16
course, we already know what happens with the demand long
47:19
term. So yeah, you, you hit the nail
47:21
on the head. Just amplify what was already in
47:23
me. And also getting older now being
47:25
able to be a thought leader and teacher, sort of putting that
47:29
seed into other kids as well that may not have that because
47:32
they may not, you know, think to themselves, I need to be a self
47:35
learner or autodive that they may think to themselves, I'll
47:37
just go to school, teacher tells me I write it down and give me a
47:40
good grade, whatever. But I think that that putting
47:43
that into the next generation and even my colleagues who are
47:47
around my age, I think that that is very important for the
47:50
future. Yeah.
47:52
Amen. Amen.
47:54
What do you wish more people knew about Bitcoin?
47:58
I wish we knew the history and quote UN quote scary times of
48:02
Bitcoin and if they knew, you know, when I first started Silk
48:07
Road, the Ross Albert got out to him good friends with him and
48:10
his mom Lynn. When he when Silk Road went
48:14
down, Mount Gox went down Silk Road 2 point O went down.
48:18
There were hundreds of articles saying Bitcoin is dead.
48:20
This is all pre 2015 and we were in a four year bear market and
48:24
everybody was scared and everybody thought it was fake
48:26
and they were like price coming back or is it you still use it?
48:30
There was actually inflation bug in Bitcoin very early on.
48:34
There was there was a lot of things in the Bitcoin history
48:36
that way scarier than oh, BlackRock is dumping it.
48:42
Who gives a shit about BlackRock.
48:43
Who cares about ETF? Motherfucker, We didn't know if
48:47
Bitcoin was going to survive. Like we had no clue if this
48:51
project, this little crazy project.
48:52
That we got 30 bucks left right? Like I've just put my life
48:57
savings in this fucking life. Savings in it and, and, and that
49:00
was to me, those were scary, actual scary.
49:03
Now everything that people say is all the price going down.
49:06
Oh, some random dude said he doesn't like it.
49:09
Oh, Peter Schiff is talking shit again.
49:10
None of this is scary. This is all just par for the
49:12
course of where we're going. But if more people, and I know
49:15
there's some Bitcoin historians like my God, Pete Rizzo and some
49:19
others, my guy who owns the Bitcoin Museum, which that'll
49:23
that'll be opening soon, they're like prove Bitcoin story.
49:26
And if we can get that to people so that they can have more
49:29
confidence and understand that the scary times are gone.
49:32
If Bitcoin was going to be dead forever, it would already, it
49:35
could have been gone after the Mount gospel still grow.
49:39
But because it progressed and pushed all those times, I think
49:42
now you have much more confidence to think, well,
49:44
Bitcoin's not going anywhere. So let me just make a plan to
49:47
make sure that I have this. I think that would help
49:49
tremendously for most people getting into this space.
49:52
It is sort of like, you know, I think in today's time, you can
49:55
order food, you can get Netflix, you can get Hulu, you can get
49:59
everything delivered to your door.
50:00
It's easy. And people still have the
50:02
highest levels of the anxiety of all time.
50:04
Why? Because our grandparents and
50:06
great grandparents literally didn't know if they were going
50:09
to eat tomorrow, they might get shipped off to war.
50:11
They might die from some some crazy typhus or some crazy
50:14
disease. People who didn't have proper
50:16
dentist and healthcare. You might have, you might birth
50:20
12 kids, four of them die. That's the scary time.
50:23
Why do y'all have so much anxiety today?
50:26
And it's so easy. Everything is literally given to
50:28
you for the Press of a button. So I think the same thing is in
50:31
Bitcoin. People are so Oh my God, what's
50:33
happening to my Bitcoin? I'm like here your times are
50:35
gone man. And once we once we get more
50:37
people to understand that, I think people have much more
50:39
confidence and we'll be able to go from there.
50:42
Yeah, we'll give thanks to your forefathers for going through
50:46
that. Yeah, that's bang on, man, 100%.
50:49
There's there's very little reason for anxiety.
50:52
And I mean, you know, like it's, I get it.
50:55
But also, no, I don't. Let's go ahead and do work.
50:59
Get get shit done. What does Bitcoin mean to you?
51:09
Bitcoin means a change in the way we think about money
51:14
forever, meaning we can't go backward.
51:18
Now that that the Bitcoin has is the network effects of Bitcoin
51:22
have progressed. We can't ever go backwards.
51:24
So we can never think of Bitcoin as a or think of money as it has
51:29
to be a centralized system that's dead forever. 1000 years
51:33
from now, Bitcoin is still around.
51:35
You know, that'll be inherent in most people like, Oh yeah, we
51:38
should have been been had a decentralized financial system.
51:41
However, I think that what it's doing right now is changing the
51:44
fact that money will never be the same.
51:47
There will never be people who can present a centralized money
51:50
source without pushback because we've seen the alternative and
51:53
it's much better. So I think that's that's
51:55
ultimately what Bitcoin has changed.
51:58
What is that? Isaiah, thank you so much man,
52:02
for spending some scarce time finding our energy, telling us
52:06
the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
52:07
It's been an honour and a pleasure to have you on man.
52:11
Always glad to to discuss it with anybody in the Bitcoin
52:14
world. Man, I appreciate you for having
52:16
me on.