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Owning Nothing — Not Even Your Thoughts · Spiritual Sense: Practical wisdom to quiet an overthinking mind and recharge your soul

• 0:00
  Speaker A: So today we're diving into negative thoughts, bad habits. If you've ever had stuff coming up again and again and again, you're thinking, I don't want to think this thing. Why is it in my mind? I don't want to do this thing. Why does it keep coming up? We're going to help you liberate yourself from that with some very simple methods that work extremely well if you practice them. So we all have thoughts, we all have things arising in our mind. Some of them are very nice thoughts that make us feel good and are based on reality. And some of them are very shocking things or unpleasant things or negative thoughts about people or worries. And all this stuff. And if it just goes on and on, it can drive us mad or at least make us very disturbed. So in this session we're going to discuss something that can help bring some space between you thinking about this stuff, getting caught up in it and letting it go. And that is an extremely powerful method that really works. So, Shreen, why don't you tell us all about this?
• 1:12
  Speaker B: I take a few minutes and I watch my thoughts. Like I. Like there's a white screen and the thoughts are coming on the white screen. And then I let them come and then I let them pass. Like I'm watching, like, clouds come and go, right? And then that's the first step where I'm watching the thoughts. Like I'm creating the screen and the thoughts are coming on the screen and they're doing this thing. And then the second step is I stay a little detached and I realize I'm not those thoughts. I'm a pure, peaceful soul. Those thoughts are separate from me. I don't need to identify with these thoughts. I can let them come, let them go. And the moment I identify the stress and the anxiety and I'm not worthy stuff comes. But if I'm staying detached and letting them come and go, then I feel different, that I really am a pure, peaceful soul. I'm the awareness watching the thought. I'm not the thought.
• 2:29
  Speaker A: It's very, very deep, deep practice. So normally what happens is we think thoughts and on some level they're just kind of rambling away, rattling away by themselves. And then on some level we think, well, they must be true because they're there and because a lot of them are not very powerful, useful thoughts. There can be a negative feeling about all this stuff. And this is why we can feel very disturbed or we can do stupid things, because if there's enough thoughts, oh, you don't do this. Or do this, or I need this, or I want this, whatever. It just goes on and on. We're basically being run around by these thoughts. Whereas if we can stop and either look at them like a screen or look at them like clouds in the sky and just go, I am noticing that I'm thinking this thought. I'm noticing that this is there. This image or this idea or whatever it is I just saw sit there and go, that's interesting. Just. Just that. That awareness. I'm noticing that this is here. I think even using that term, I'm noticing that I'm thinking this. I'm noticing that I'm feeling this thing. I'm noticing that this image has appeared in my head. Just. Just the noticing itself makes us aware that we're the one who is different noticing it. And then all of a sudden, it doesn't seem such a big deal anymore. But that it does take a bit of practice, doesn't it, to actually take the time and have the courage to sit there and kind of watch it. So the useful thing is using that word. I am noticing that I'm thinking this thought. I'm noticing that I'm seeing this thing. I'm noticing that this is happening. Because that pulls us, pushes us back and pushes that forward. And it's like, oh, all right. That's just stuff moving along. It. It's not me. It's just stuff. And it really works. It really works. I. I've been personally having some negative thoughts about certain projects I'm working on. You know what? Something. This won't work. And this won't work. And I was getting a bit caught up in it. And then I started going, I'm noticing that I'm thinking it's not going to work. I'm noticing that I'm worried about this happening. And just doing that again and again made me feel completely relaxed. And I'm like, oh, it's just a thought that I'm noticing about something I think is going to happen. I don't know if it's going to happen or not. It just kind of disappears, dissipates, and it removes all the emotional pressure out of it. And then I feel fine. And then I can actually take action from a relaxed place rather than from a place of stress.
• 5:49
  Speaker B: It feels very much like just the act of noticing, right? Then you realize you're actually separate from the thought.
• 6:02
  Speaker A: Right.
• 6:03
  Speaker B: Just the act of noticing itself makes you detached.
• 6:09
  Speaker A: It's true. And it normally changes fairly quickly when we start noticing even the feelings. It could be thoughts it could be feelings. I'm noticing that I'm feeling stressed, or I notice that I'm feeling anxious, or I'm noticing that I'm feeling excited or peaceful or whatever you think, oh, okay, who is noticing it? There must be something else separate from the thing. Who's noticing it? And then who is that? We are the spiritual being back here behind it, and we're perfectly fine, so what's there to worry about, really? But when we're in it, then. Then we become all of those things. We become that. So first thing is to notice, just to say to yourself, I'm noticing that I'm having this thought. I'm noticing that I'm feeling this feeling. I'm noticing that this is recurring in my head. And then we breathe into it and we come into that awareness, and it doesn't seem like a big deal. And. And then the next thing to. To. To really turn down the. The pressure and turn down the noise of all this is to recognize that it doesn't belong to me. Anything that is negative psychologically. Anytime we think we own anything, we get attached to it, and it's harder to let it go. So, like, for example, if you go on vacation and, you know, you're staying in someone's house or someplace very, very temporary, temporarily, and like, let's say they don't. They have like, you know, a crystal, or they have a bedside table, and they have, you know, all this stuff in a house, right? You'll see it and you're kind of like, all right, that's nice, or, I don't like this, or whatever. And it's not a big deal because, you know you're going to leave the next day. But if it's. If someone gives you something or if you buy something, then you're like, well, this is mine. Now is mine. And then we start having all kinds of opinions about it and wanting to keep it safe and worrying about it and thinking about it when. If it's someone else's, we just don't care, and we don't. We're not bothered about things. And so when we think I own these thoughts, or I am. These old habits, or I want all these things and they belong to me, it's really, really hard to let them go. You want to talk about that, Shireen? This ownership thing?
• 8:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I was thinking about that. The illusion, the Maya, of ownership, especially about very subtle things like thoughts or even habits and attitudes and belief systems. Somehow you not only feel like, okay, now you have to defend it. Right. And then you take support from it. Right. Let's say like you were talking about a crystal. If I feel the crystal is someone else's, then I'll just see it. And so it's beautiful and it's gone. But if I feel the crystal is mine, then I'm taking support from that ownership also. And so all of these things happen. So really I feel these negative thought patterns, right? So self sabotaging, negative habits. They are misdirected property and most everything, right? Like that's the one thing, right? They're misdirected property because it's not your property. You are a beautiful, pure, peaceful soul. And that is outside of you. That's not you. That's like the mud covering the diamond. So that's not you. But also the reason I think it's me is because I'm taking support from it. And so they're both things have to happen. You have to realize that that's not me, that's not my property. It's not me. But also I can't take support from it. I'm taking support from mud. There's something really beautiful. There's a higher thing here, and I'm taking support from something. So something lower. Maya works very like Maya. The illusion, the spiritual illusion, Right. Works in very mysterious ways. When we don't look at these things very carefully, we think, oh, we are just under compulsion by all of this. We are not compulsion. You're a powerful soul. You're just giving away your power. That's all you're doing. Everyone is a powerful soul. If you give away your power, then it won't be there. And you give away your power like this. You give away your power by saying, it belongs to me. I am this. Right? Let's say I'm anxious. I am anxious, right? Versus saying I'm noticing anxiety and that anxiety, not only I'm noticing anxiety, but that anxiety is not me. That's. That's outside of me. That's, you know, I'm a pure, beautiful soul. So there has to be faith in being a pure, beautiful soul. There has to be faith that anxiety is not me. It's outside of me. And there has to be not the compulsion that every time something happens, I revert to anxiety. Like, it's like Maya has put a stronghold on you. And by doing, by you saying mine, right? You're giving away the power.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. The word mine is very dangerous if it's applied to the wrong things. My bad habits, my anxiety, my stress, you know, my whatever it we can't release things that belong to us very easily. But if it's just something that's happening, then we can say, okay, fine. You know, just like if you go on a road trip, let's say, right, and you drive through a town and there's some. Let's say there's a police car and there's some other car the police pulled over. You just drive. You might be curious, but you just drive past. And then maybe there's like a strange looking post office and a. Like a Mexican restaurant or whatever, you just drive past and you're just like, all right, fine. But as soon as you say my stuff and my this and my that, and then you start, let me just pull over here and see, make sure it's okay. And look at it. Get caught up in all these things. And that's what happens in our mind. We start. It just comes up in our head. And then we think, this is mine, this is mine, this is mine. What am I going to do about it? And start getting really obsessed about all these things when they're just moving past. Everything's moving past. The irony, of course, is nothing belongs to us. This, this is the deepest thing. There are certain things actually that do belong to us, which we can talk about. Eternal things like love, the. We're spiritual beings that have love and bliss and peace, joy, that actually do belong to us. And then there's everything else which doesn't actually belong to us, even our body. Of course we're responsible for it, but we're not going to have this forever. There will come a point where this is no longer here. So this is just temporary, just like everything else is temporary. And we might think, this is my house, my car, my this, my that, my bank account, my everything. But even that is just temporarily here. Just like if we're passing through a town in a road trip. It's very temporary. You might be there for a few minutes or a few seconds, but this, this whole thing of life is really the same thing, just on a slightly larger scale. But we're still just passing through it all. And then we have our thoughts which are happening like this, passing through. And we're the ones who are the eternal witness, the kind of eternal sky that has everything happening on it. And so if we say nothing belongs to me except I'm a soul, God belongs to me, and my original feelings belong to me, then we can be very relaxed, can't we?
• 14:42
  Speaker B: That's the paradox, isn't it? You know what the paradox is? That we Think we are getting power by something belonging to us, right? If I think, oh, this house belongs to me, then I feel powerful. But actually I'm just trapping myself because in reality it doesn't, right? I'm temporary caretaker for a few years, and then fifty years, hundred years, someone else is going to come live here. Anything, right? Anything. Like you look at it, right? Like you look at billionaires, you look at really powerful people. No one's going to live forever. Everyone has to die. They're not taking whatever they think they have. Position, power, money, houses, cars. They're not taking with them. Do you know anyone who's taken that with them?
• 15:44
  Speaker A: No. It's. It's a grand illusion, isn't it, that we own things and that we have things, when in fact we don't really own or have anything. Because anyone could die at any moment. And as soon as they do, it's all finished immediately. So what we do have is our presence and our witnessing, awareness and our experiencingness, the capacity to experience things. That's what we actually have, but that's it. And the more detached we are from everything, the more we can actually enjoy it and be light about it, but the more attached we are, that everything becomes very restrictive and suppressive and such a big deal and very disturbing. And I think that's why monks, traditionally monks and nuns didn't own anything because they were trying to practice physically not having attachment to things because they actually literally didn't own them. Whereas we're trying to practice having the same attitude as that while we actually do own things, which is a little bit more difficult in some ways, but it's the same. But it's an unlimited renunciation or unlimited freedom rather than limit it. So these are very, very deep things. So it applies to our mind, it applies to our habits, it applies to our things that we're just watching things pass by. I'm noticing that this thing is here. I'm noticing this thought is here. I'm noticing this habit is here. And. And then as we step back and come into the awareness of our original self, then we come into a sense of deep peace. And a lot of the problems that we thought we had either disappear or we have clarity on what to do about it with a sense of ease. And it takes the. The sting, this pressure out of it.
• 17:55
  Speaker B: You know, a couple of years ago, I was in our headquarters, our retreat center in Mount Abu, and they. There were two people were doing rangoli. You know what rangoli is? Rangoli is kind of like a sand painting.
• 18:15
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker B: And they stayed up night, the whole night doing. It was a beautiful elaborate sand painting. Right. It's not sand, it's color, but it's powder color. Right. It's not permanent. I mean, they must have spent at least 36 hours doing that, right? Beautiful, beautiful rangoli. And I watched them do it. And then a couple of days later, the rain came and that thing went. Right. And so. And I was watching them to see how they are going to react to the rain coming and that just disappearing. And they were fine. And I was thinking, that is liberation. That is liberation. And they didn't even make an attempt to put something. You know, for them, just the act of creating the rangoli was enough. Like, you know, they didn't put an attempt to put like a hot tornado or canopy over it. Nothing.
• 19:34
  Speaker A: Put some glass on the top and make it stuck down, you know.
• 19:39
  Speaker B: No, nothing, nothing. 36 hours they worked and they detached. Then the rains came a few days later and they were fine with it.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I've seen the. The Buddhists do this as well, don't they? And they might spend weeks on these ridiculous mandala things, you know, and then they just wipe it as soon as it's finished. They just clean it straight away. They don't even keep it, and they just get the brush out. So you. You can imagine that's what we're dealing with. It's. We have. We have the right to experience life. We have the right to be here, but we haven't got the right to own anything at all, because we don't own it. We have a right to.
• 20:27
  Speaker B: In reality, we don't really. In reality, we really don't own it. No, it does not belong to us. And so, I mean, temporary caretakers even of the body. Temporary caretakers, yes.
• 20:44
  Speaker A: Like, here we are, we're recording on. Zoom, right on a screen. Here's a laptop. You have a laptop. Cameras, microphones, they are just here temporarily. We have a right to use them. But they could all break. They could be stolen. We could leave. I mean, this is all just happens to be here right now. And that's just how it is with everything. So this idea that we own things and then we start getting caught up in it all is what makes us trapped and unhappy and miserable and stressed out.
• 21:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. People think it's power owning things. No, it's just trapping you.
• 21:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Speaker B: And you know what's the most ridiculous thing is not only people are trapped. Like, I look at people, right? Like different cages people have, and they're looking at other people in cages and thinking, oh, my God, my cage is so much better than their cage. It's the absurdity of modern life. We have really lost the plot line.
• 21:54
  Speaker A: I feel it's really off. Everything's so off these days in America. The idea is that any problem you have, there's a product to solve it. In America.
• 22:07
  Speaker B: Oh, because they want to sell you.
• 22:09
  Speaker A: Something, there's another product. You just need this one last thing and you'll be all right if you go. Like. Sometimes when I'm in, like, hotels or something, I turn the TV on because I don't have a tv and the adverts are just, just. It's like when I'm watching the adverts, I'm like, this is like some serious mental hospital type. Like the, The. The idea behind the ad is so off, but because it's been going on for such a long time, no one really notices how bizarre it is, you know, because you can kind of get used to things and.
• 22:42
  Speaker B: And there's a whole system, though. There's a whole system. People who create the ads get paid, then people. You know, it's not like anyone is evil.
• 22:53
  Speaker A: No, it's not.
• 22:54
  Speaker B: It's just not like the people, like. Not like the corporations who are selling. Selling the product is evil. No, they just misdirected. They think they're getting money and paying bills and then people who are buying it. There's like the whole system.
• 23:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, everyone's innocent.
• 23:09
  Speaker B: Feels really like. I feel like I'm in a circus.
• 23:12
  Speaker A: Like, it's bizarre. It's bizarre. There's always a product, you know, like, when I came to America, I thought it was quite funny because in England, England's still cause capitalist consumerist culture like most of the world is. And there's of course, benefit to that because I'd rather have more options and be suppressed with a different government. But nonetheless, this is a. I know, right?
• 23:34
  Speaker B: I was talking to someone yesterday from Cuba.
• 23:36
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Speaker B: And they were saying how bad it is in Cuba right now.
• 23:41
  Speaker A: Exactly. So capitalism and consumerism has way more benefits than downsides compared to these communist countries. And, you know, and anyone who has any sense can see that. But there are loads of downsides and so pick your poison, in a way. But we're not. This isn't a political podcast, so we're not going to get into any of the details. But the idea in England is the same as it is in America. It's just that it's not as many options. Right. So in England, you might have like a Mars bar and a Twix, like candy bars and like different kinds of.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Shoes and you have own bar.
• 24:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Speaker B: Why do you need anything else?
• 24:22
  Speaker A: Why would you need anything except a non bar, which is my chocolate company. Go and buy some on bars and. But in America, you can't get much on bars, sadly at this point, so. Oh, God, how do we manage? How do we get through the day? How do. I mean, I'm all right because I have loads of them, but I don't know how anyone else is getting.
• 24:41
  Speaker B: No, but you can't have them till you send to me.
• 24:43
  Speaker A: I can't? No, I can't. I'm only allowed to have on bars after I do work these days. But anyway, in England, apart from Ombar, which is a separate topic overall, I remember coming to America, right? And I was like, you go to the store and there's like. In England you might have like six different types of. Types of washing powder or something like this, which is still loads of different kinds. In America, you come there and there's 25 different kinds and you're just like, what the hell? Like. And then you go to this, this store and it's like you have one kind of shoes for this one thing, a different kind of shoes for this other thing. Different, different. So you can't just have like one pair of shoes that are used for different things. You have to have this one for this reason, this one for this reason, this one for this reason, and two versions of that one for this reason. And that's just perfectly normal in America. You know, I remember thinking, like, what is going on here? So it's fun and I kind of find it amusing, but the downside is that we end up owning loads and loads of stuff and thinking that the solution to all our problems is another pair of shoes or another product or a better washing. It's not a better washing powder. You need more shoes.
• 25:55
  Speaker B: No, not shoes.
• 25:57
  Speaker A: No need. Well, you can always buy more shoes. Buy more shoes, buy some cups, get a new dishwasher and. And another app. That's what you need. We need another app and everything will be just fine. Right, so that's what. That's. The only thing missing is another app, actually. And I'm considering doing an app with someone who watches the podcast. And maybe that is the solution to everything. You just need this one app and it'll be all right. But. But nonetheless, the real power is being detached to detach from everything. And the. The evidence of this is God is the most powerful of all Beings. And God is the one who's the most attached from everything. Because if God became attached to everything, I'm not quite sure what would happen to the whole universe, actually. So just. It's because of being so detached that there's such freedom. So detachment leads to a feeling of freedom, and freedom leads to a feeling of joy and happiness and lightness and capacity to enjoy and do things. Whereas attachment and being trapped and owning leads to a sense of, you know, controlling and scarcity and worries and inhibitions, fear. So we. We have kind of a difficult path in the sense that we're aiming to be totally detached while we have everything. So this is an interesting place to be. And I've attempted to get rid of loads of stuff and it didn't work out very well. So that doesn't seem to be the method either.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: I did too. I did too. There was a time in my life I lived with hundred things. Hundred things, right.
• 27:56
  Speaker A: You actually counted it.
• 27:58
  Speaker B: I counted 100.
• 28:00
  Speaker A: Wow. Let's go. I'm gonna give you a round of applause because I tried to do 108 things a bunch of times and I failed miserably every single time. And I became neurotic counting them. Hang on a minute. No, no. Is that 108? Does that count? If there's a multiple versions of the same thing, does that count as one?
• 28:16
  Speaker B: Like a pen, Right? Yeah, like multiple versions of a pen. Now, it became so ridiculous, but especially because I live in a center.
• 28:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker B: So I can't count the chairs. Right. That. That does not belong to me. I'm talking about personal things. But anyway, it gets so thin. And I'm thinking, why am I picking this up as a religion? Forget it. Right. Of course. Try to stay simple and all of that, but not be so neurotic about counting. Do I have 100 and if I have two pens, does that count as two?
• 28:48
  Speaker A: You're thinking that as well, were you? That's what I was thinking. I was like, then that counts. Probably counts as one, because it's the same thing. And I was thinking, what about my book? Surely they're sort of, you know, because just look at the books here. There's probably 108 books just. Just in this one bookshelf. And there's another bookshelf there and another one over there. So. But yeah, so it doesn't work. So getting rid of everything isn't solving the problem either. So it has to be a spiritual solution, otherwise that becomes its own.
• 29:17
  Speaker B: It has to be a separation from you and things that's all a mental separation.
• 29:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. Minimalism is not the solution. Although I try and be minimalist anyway.
• 29:32
  Speaker B: Except when it comes to books.
• 29:33
  Speaker A: Apart from books. Books don't count. They're all one thing. Look. See? They're all called academy.
• 29:38
  Speaker B: Okay. Some other things also don't count. Like chocolate doesn't count.
• 29:41
  Speaker A: Chocolate doesn't count. Books don't count. Exactly.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: And like lenses and all of those don't count.
• 29:50
  Speaker A: None of that counts. Yeah. I can buy as many lenses.
• 29:53
  Speaker B: Okay, then what counts?
• 29:54
  Speaker A: Nothing counts. It doesn't matter.
• 29:57
  Speaker B: I thought you had a minimalist life.
• 30:00
  Speaker A: Everything's fine. Yeah, no, I just. Every few months I do massive space clearing and I do get rid of bags worth of stuff. But. And it does feel good. But the. But that's not solving the actual issue. The issue is I am. I don't own anything at all. So that's the easiest thing to do is that I own absolutely nothing. And I'm just watching it all happen. That's. That's really the only thing that's going to work because otherwise it's just limited.
• 30:32
  Speaker B: To including my thoughts and including my habits. They're not mine.
• 30:38
  Speaker A: No.
• 30:39
  Speaker B: That's where we started. My thoughts are not mine. My habits are not mine. If you feel that's really a stretch. Right. We just want you to try it. Just try it. You're not going to lose anything. Just try it and see how liberated you'll feel.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you don't have to put anything in trust or give it to your friends or anything like that. Nothing has to change at all. You're just having an attitude that you don't own anything. So there it is. Have fun, try it out and let us know how it goes. What would you feel like if you didn't own anything in your heart? You realize this is all temporary and you're just the infinite witness watching everything from a state of peace. Ah. So let's have a blessing.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: Sincerity.
• 31:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, great.
• 31:45
  Speaker B: This is God's blessing for you. Sincerity. Your deep rooted habit of witnessing life unfold has given you an understanding of what matters most. Judgment now comes slowly to you, replaced by thoughtful responses. Your sincerity makes you a lighthouse of wisdom.
• 32:12
  Speaker A: Yay. Blessings. Blessings. Blessings. Enjoy having nothing and see what happens. Thank youk, Shireen.
• 32:20
  Speaker B: Om Shanthi.