Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / A Royal Bloodline, A Rebellious Spirit: How Asma Khan Changed the Culinary World

Transcript

A Royal Bloodline, A Rebellious Spirit: How Asma Khan Changed the Culinary World · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: And who says?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: So?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to question everything. I'm coming to you from La although
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I have been bouncing around this country when I tell you,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I have spent way too much time in middle seats
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: on airplanes the last.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Week and a half.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a quick overview because it's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Women's month, right and so I always say this is
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: like my super Bowl, It's like the whole It's the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: best month of the year. I get to have so
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: much fun in meat like really really awesome women. So
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a quick overview, and then I'm
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: gonna jump into today's episode because you're definitely gonna want
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to hear from our guest and not from me. So
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I flew to New York to host an event for
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Dagney Dover. And if you've been a Day One Question
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Everything listener, then if you've been listening since Pretty Smart Days,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: then you'll remember Dagney Dover. There's three founders, Dipa, Jesse,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and Melissa, and they make truly my favorite travel bag.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: It's all out of like what's it called, like that
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: scuba material, so it looks so good, it fits so much,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and it never gets dirty. Anyways, I'm obsessed with their
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: products and the three of them are amazing. So I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: flew to New York and hosted a night with them
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: called Women Working the Voice of Female Power. And on
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the panel we're Sammy Sage from Betch's Ali Love from
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Today's Show and from Peloton, and then Hennaedoba who's a
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: journalist and it's like a true seeker of truth. And
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: there were so many women there. Oh my god, there
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: were like one hundred people. We were not expecting that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: many people to come. We all gathered and soho at
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the Dagni Dover store and it was just a really
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: fun night. But I have to tell you it was
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the first time I've ever experienced this. So many people
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that listened to the podcast came in person, and some
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: people even brought their question everything card games with them
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and I just have never experienced that before, and I
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: like it took everything in me not to cry. It
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: was so cool because I feel like I know some
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: of you guys, because you'll DM me or even email me,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: and I get to put a face to some people
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: who are listening, but I don't get to know everybody,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: and so like, meeting you in person is just freaking best,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and it's always like just the coolest women.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: So that was awesome.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And then I flew to Austin for south By Southwest
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and got to do another really really amazing panel. If
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: you've been following me on Instagram, you might have seen
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: that I launched a card game called Shot Callers with
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: twenty one Seeds, which is an amazing tequila brand, and
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I actually am interviewing the founders later this month, so
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: you'll hear more about their story. But you guys know,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I don't really drink that much, so it's like the
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: only alcohol that I really like. Actually, Hello Sunshine has
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the sparkling wine that I really like too, but in
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: terms of tequila, it's infused and the cucumber Hollopanio makes me,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: it's just so good. Anyways, we launched a card game
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: with them called Shot Callers. It's basically like fifty two
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: questions for girls who call the shots, and it's so fun.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: It's pink and gold and just like really fun questions.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And so I did a dinner to launch it a
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago with twenty one Seeds, and then I
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: flew to Austin to interview one of the founders, Kat Hauntis,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: And also it became like a panel for CpG female founders,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and so I got to interview Alison Ellsworth, who's the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: founder of Poppy, and Jen Bachelor, who founded Kenuphorix. And
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you why this is so cool.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: First of all, CpG stands for consumer package Goods, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: the CpG world is incredibly male populated. And I've been
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: saying male populated, not male dominated, because when women come in,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: they dominate. But it's very male populated, and so it's
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: hard for it can be hard for women to break in.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: And these three women didn't just break in, They literally
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: shifted the entire industry and other brands are trying to
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: keep up with them now. So they shifted this entire industry,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and I think they did so not just for all founders.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I mean they did, but specifically female founders, because now
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: distributors take female founders more seriously and in large part
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: because of them. So they're not just founders like industry shifting,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: culture shifting founders.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: But they're also all moms.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not a mom yet, but I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: remember that when I started journalism, I would tell people
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I was a writer slash producer slash on camera talent.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And one day my mom looked at me and she goes,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I'm a producer too, And I was like, Mom, you
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: sell mortgages.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: What have you produced?
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And she looked at me and she got serious, and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: she goes, Danielle, I produce this family every single day.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I'm the CEO, the CMO, and the COO. And it
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: was in that moment that I realized that women have
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: been running the show for so long. Women have always
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: been working in and outside of the house, and it's
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: just that recently, probably over the last twenty and specifically
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: like ten and even the last five years, women are
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: taking center stage and the world is paying attention. So
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it just felt like a special panel to be a
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: part of not to mention the founders are all really
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: smart and like sweet kind people. And then there was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: like a dinner that night to celebrate, and we had
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: some poppy sweatshirts which were keeping us all warm because
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: apparently it gets cold and Austin at night. And also
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the card games were on the table as they kind
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: of looked like kosers, so they were under everybody's drinks,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: which was really cute. Then I had some meetings at
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: south By, saw some old friends, and last night got
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: on a plane back to LA explained to me why
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I was in a middle seat for.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Both legs of those flights.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: It was so it was so brutal.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: It just gets hot, you know. Anyways, not important.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I'm unpacking, doing laundry, catching up on work, repacking, and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: then heading to Miami to host the World Happiness Organizations
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Summit for the year, which is going to be so fun.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I'll report back on that next week.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: So I just wanted to give you a little update.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And as always, know that the one on one zooms
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: are like the fifteen twenty minute calls, are extended to you,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: So if you want to screenshot a review or send
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the episode to two or three friends and screenshot it
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and either DM me or email me if I don't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: see it, and we'll enter you in the week's raffles.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: So thank you for being here.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And I got such sweet notes from you about the rebrand,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: so thanks for being excited about it with me. I
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: really feel like over the next month or two we're
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: going to roll out some new format stuff and some
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: new things.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: So I'm really excited to do it with you, guys.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get in to today's episode.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: You weren't supposed to make it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: They doubted you, underestimated you, maybe they dismissed you outright,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: but what they didn't see. The thing they never see
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: is what you were made. You worked harder, smarter, and
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: more relentlessly than anyone expected, because failing is not an option.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: That is the underdog mentality. It's what happens when the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: odds are stacked against you, and the only way forward
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: is to rise anyway. Maya Angelo wrote still I Rise
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight, in a world where women, particularly
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: black women, were still fighting to be heard. Their power,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: their presence, their ambition were seen as threats, and yet
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: they rose. The poem became an anthem of resilience and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: defiance and taking up space despite everything meant to keep
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: you small.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: You may write me down in history with your bitter,
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: twisted line. You may trod me in the very dirt,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: but still like dust all raight. Does my fastiness upset you?
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Why are you beset with gloom just because I walked it?
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: If I have oil wells pumping in my living room
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: just like moons, and like suns, with a certainty of tides,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: just like hope springing high? Still like that? Did you
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: want to see me broken? Bowed head and lowered eyes,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: shoulders falling down like teardrops. We can buy my soul,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: so crime, that's my assassiness upset? You don't take it
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: so hard just because I laugh as if I have
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: gold mines digging in my own backyard. You can shoot
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: me with your words, You can cut me with your line,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: You can kill me with your hatefulness.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: But just like life, all.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Hm, I love that pump, And every time I
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm underestimated, I listen to that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Have you ever like an underdog like you? Will rise?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Our guest today knows that feeling so well. Ozma Khan
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: was born an unwonted second daughter in India, a role
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: often seen as a burden. In her culture, second daughters
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: are frequently overlooked and dismissed, even forgotten by their own families.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: But Ozma she refused to let that stigma define her.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: She became the first woman in her family to attend college.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, she left India for Cambridge to
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: be with her husband without knowing how to cook. Okay,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: she couldn't even boil an egg, but the aromas and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the spices and the comforts of India kept calling her back.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: She turned her kitchen into her classroom, teaching herself to
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: cook the dishes of her childhood, and with time, she
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: didn't just learn them, she mastered them.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And she did all of this.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: While earning her PhD in Constitutional law from King's College
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: in London, raising her chin children, and then ultimately hosting
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: these supper clubs in her home. Okay, she was hosting
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: these clubs without her husband even knowing. And the women
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: who gathered in her kitchen they were nannies and housewives
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: that she met at her kids' school, Southeast Asian women
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: that ultimately became the chefs of her award winning restaurant,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: their jealing express why.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Didn't your tribe. The tribe doesn't have to look like you.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: The tribe was a person who backs.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So Ozma saw the toxic, male populated and definitely even
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: male dominated culture of professional kitchens and thought, no, I
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: know women who can do this better.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Women who didn't.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Have culinary degrees, but they cooked from memory, from instinct,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: from generations of unspoken knowledge.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Women like Ozma hold.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: The ladder and get the others up, because this will
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: make a difference.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Her approach wasn't just radical, it was deeply personal, and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the world started paying attention. She became the first British
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: chef featured on Chef's Table. She's been named one of
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Time magazine's one hundred most Influential People. She's spoken at
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the Ued, and just recently she was invited to cook
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: for the King and Queen of England.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: If you don't believe in yourself, no one else will.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: But Osma doesn't just cook food right like she tells stories,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: she exposes the politics of the plate. She challenges the cutthroat,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: hierarchical culture of restaurant kitchens, where screaming is seen as
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: leadership and exhaustion is worn as a badge of honor.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: In her kitchen, there's no combat zones, okay, no raised voices. Instead,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: there's intuition and tradition and respect.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: When I walked in in that docned room, I stood
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: there and I wet because I knew this is my space.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I own this spacesporrowful By suddenly fucked.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I had feel She built our dealing express from thing
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: without investors, without restaurant experience, just a belief in herself
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and the women she surrounded herself with.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: You will never get over child with ma and being
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: will make fet inadequate. I am deeply God. And it's
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: not that I never fear these scars will never hear.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I am what I am despite the scars. I carry
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the scars as a badge of problem that I will
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: regain the scars.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: At its core, this episode isn't just about food. It's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: about power. The big question we're circling is who gets
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: to rise, who gets to be heard? And then when
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: they do, who do they bring with them? What happens
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: when an underdog decides to rewrite the rules. Decides to
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: rewrite the rules, Here's question everything with Ozma Khan let's.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Begin, Osma. Welcome to pretty Smart.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: So you were born into a royal Indian bloodline, and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you know, growing up in America, I don't have a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: lot of insight into what that means. Could you set
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the stage for me? What was your upbringing, like, what
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: was your house like? What does it mean to be
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: born into a royal Indian bloodline?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Well, actually not that much because after India got independence,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: all the royal families lost their privileges, including royal title
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: and the privy purse, which was, you know, the kind
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: of private income. So it really is about, you know, heritage,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the food, the stories, and awareness of who you are.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But I had a pretty kind of ordinary upbringing. But
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: of course every summer we went back to the palace
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and the fortress, and then you were very aware of
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, you were slightly different from
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: some of your other friends and school. But that really
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: was just something that you were aware of. And I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: didn't speak a lot about my heritage. I think I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: might have been a bit embarrassed. I just kind of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: had a very kind of ordinary life. But I did
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: keep my middle name, which was my kind of family name.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: As some people would recognize that, but otherwise I kind
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: of pretty much tried to stay low on the radar.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: But the awareness of the bloodline was something that gave
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: me a sense of purpose. I did understand that I
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: came from a bloodline of warriors, that people in my
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: family had done significant thing for the community, and my
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: father always instilled in me this sense of duty. So
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the royal heritage and bloodline really was, you know, in
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: this sense that you were responsible for others, that you
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: were privileged by birth and you needed to do things
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: for others. So that's where really it kind of played in,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: but not in my day to day life. So you know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't dress up as a princess and have people,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: you know, looking after me. I wish they did, but no,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: it was pretty ordinary life.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm curious because I didn't understand the context of this,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: but I read that your mother cried when you were born.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: Can you explain that to me?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I cried when both my boys were born.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I think this is what my mother hood does to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: you when you finally deliver. You see this, But I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: think that there was a lot of pressure on my
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: mother to deliver a boy. She was one of five daughters.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: My grandmother, who was always upset when girls were born,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: she carried this to her grave, the sense of failure
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: that she hadn't delivered a boy, and she instilled this
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in all her girls, that you have to have a boy.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And I think that I came after three or four
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: girls were born in the family, so I think my
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: mother did feel that she'd let the side down, but
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I think that was on the day after that. I
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: have never felt from my parents any sense of discrimination,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and I think that my mother she loved me equal
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: to my brother and my sister. But that sense of
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: disappointment very fleetingly that my mother expressed was something very
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: strongly communicated to me by the rest of the family. Definitely,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the rest of the family made me feel unwanted, dismissed,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: and I think it was not helpful that I was
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: not attractive. I think if I was pretty, if I
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: was fair, if I was slim, they may have been
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: happier having me around. But having none of the qualities
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that they thought attractive, I was pretty much sidelined and
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: not considered someone important in the extended family. But my
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: imunate family loved me a lot, and my brother and
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: sister were amazing. They are the ones that made me
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: what I am, but definitely not the extended family.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Well, you shared with me that your sister was conventionally
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: attractive and she would call you warrior princess. What does
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: that name mean to you? In hindsight?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: In hindsight now I realized that it was a game changer.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: It changed my entire outlook because when and this is
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: something I'm discussing, not because I want someone to think, oh,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: you know, poor thing, she went through this. It's happening today.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: It's happening in your house. It's happening in your workplace,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: it's happening in your family in schools. When somebody is
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: picked on because of the way they look or because
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: of some kind of other physical attribute, it destroys the
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: inner confidence. I was saved by my sister, by my
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: mother who made me feel invincible. And when my sister
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: would call me the warrior princess, and she told me
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: the world would shake when you walk, you're going to
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: be someone incredible. This was my sister who everybody adored,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: who everybody loved. She was so beautiful, and you know,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: people would talk about everything from her head to her
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: clothes to her shoes. She had the most beautiful feet,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: and so at that level of adoration was given to
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: my sister, but she adored me, and that is so powerful.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I understood at a very young age that when women
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: back women, it's so powerful. Today Dardling express really is
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: symbolizes what happened in my life that women who have
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: always been sidelined, never given center stage, I have understood
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: their eye backed them. They I found in them that
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: incredible fire to leap over all the hurdles, to deal
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: with pain, and to understand they break their chains. And
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's what my sister's comments did to me
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: at age three or four. I didn't fully understand. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: just felt so proud when she's told me I was
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: a warrior princess. As a little girl, it made me
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: feel that everything was going to be okay, that one
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: day I will be something, one day I will be powerful.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And I didn't understand what fame meant. I didn't understand
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: what everything else meant, but I felt like I would
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: count among the great and the good because I was
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the warrior princess.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Do you have any scars from that time, Ozma, because
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I see you sitting here and you're just You're deeply powerful.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: You're a powerful person. I'm wondering if you have any
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: scars from being sidelined as a kid.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I have lots of scars. I am deeply scarred, and
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it's not that I never feel it. These cars will
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: never heal. I am what I am despite the scars.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: But I think what is so important for all of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: us who go through similar experiences. You may not heal,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: but you need to move on, and the biggest thing
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: you need to do is forgive, forgive those that damage
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to you, because otherwise they are still victorious. I have
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: forgiven everybody who mocked me, who laughed at me, who
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: ridiculed me, who made me feel so unwanted. I forgive
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: them all because I think that I cannot move on.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So it's not that the scars will ever heal, but
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: there are other things that happen in your life that
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: allows you to forgive those scars. I carry the scars
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: as a badge of honor that I overcame the scars.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I see them. You may not see them. I actually
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: not many people ask me this question, so thank you
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: for asking me. Don't ever feel that you need to overcome.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: You will get you will never get over childhood trauma
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: and pain of make to feel inadequate. You will get by,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: and you will move on. That's why it's so important
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: to speak about this, how damaging it is. It can
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: stop someone from fulfilling so many things that they could do.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: If I had allowed all these comments to hurt me
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: so much, that didn't dare with dream, that didn't take
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the risk, that didn't stand on the edge of the mountain,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: imagine I was flying and jump so I could open
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a restaurant, open something that no one's done before, with
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: an old female kitchen. That at the age of forty five,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: when the lawyers and everybody around me, the bankers laughed
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: at me and said, want to lovely hobby, I didn't
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: see this as a hobby. I saw this as my profession.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I saw myself in places that no one else saw me.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: This is the scar a small but this is also
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the warrior princess.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's powerful to recognize both. I heard an editor,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: like a book editor one time, say that you have
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to share from the scar, not the wound, and that's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: one of the marks of a great story.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: That's much of what you're doing. I want to talk
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: about dar dealing, but we have to kind of go
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: backwards to get there. You were the first woman in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: your family to attend university and you became a lawyer
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: thirty something years ago. Is such a different world than
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: it is today. When you first went out on your own,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: your dad would write you letters. And I have a
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: really close relationship with my dad. This really touched me
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: because I have FaceTime. You didn't have that. So what
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: did these letters say? What was he writing to you?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I loved the letters that my father wrote in his
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: very slanted handwriting, which is hard to read. So much
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: of what he wrote I was reading what he didn't write.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I would see him describing things that he knows I
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: would do with him. So he would describe what he
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: could see from the window, that the birds had come,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that at dusk something had happened, that this was a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: song that he could hear, that the trees were now
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: full of fruits. And I knew he was missing me
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: by telling me about these just a sentence that the
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: tree is now full of fruits. Or at night there
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: was a stream outside my window, which was it was
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: the lady of the night. So it's the only bloom
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: at night, beautiful little flowers with fragrance, And he's to say,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I often go to stand by the window to smile
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the fragrance. I know he was in my room because
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: he missed me. It was just so beautiful. It wasn't
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: like I miss you, or that I wish you were
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: here to see this or whatever. He just told me
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: these things in beautiful lines with gaps in them. He
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: would write to me about just what he was seeing
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: around me, little incidents. You know that some neighbor ran
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: away with another neighbor, a little bit of gossip and
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: scandal as well. You know that somebody, you know, a cat,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: had kittens, things that he knew I was interested in.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So it was just literally kind of you know, what
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: was happening around him. He didn't write about emotions. He
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: didn't need to. I could see the emotions in between.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: But it was just lovely letters, just making me feel like.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: I was home on chef's table. You talked about him.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: You said that he used to say to you that
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it was really just random chance that you were born
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: into a higher cast family rather than a poor one,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and it was your responsibility to uplift other people. That
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: deep social responsibility you have seems like it came from him.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, my father is really I call him, you know,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: my mentor my guide, you know what we call in
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: my culture. You know, the kind of person who who
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: from the very beginning guided me on on what is
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the purpose of life? And it was so critical that
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: he made me understand responsibility towards others, your role in society.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: So when things were tough and people were not nice
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to me and I fell over the hurdles that life
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: put in front of me, I always was able to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: pick myself up because I knew I had a mission.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: My father had told me that my responsibility was to
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: lift other people up. And it's such an important it is,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: you know, the anchor to my life. So I could
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: withstand everything that was happening around me in the tough
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: days as a child, and then later on in life
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: as well, being separated from him, you know, being sent
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: off to England and all this kind of harshness of winter.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I could face all of this because I always felt
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I have a task to do. This is such a powerful,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: you know force that inside you, you know that there
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: is something more to your story. There's another chapter in
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: your life. Irrespective of what is happening around you, there
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: is something greater waiting for you to do and so important.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: When you feel helpless and you're in dark, in a
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: dark space, you understand that, you know. I always talk
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: about how my father would always tell me that, you know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Dave will always follow night and as a child has
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: to go to the roof of the palace and he's
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: to wait for the first day of light and tell
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: me that is life, that in the darkness, you are
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: that light that then will bring light to everything. And
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: it's very it can of you carry this within you.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: It's not that you're conscious all the time of what
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: you're doing in your life. But when you're very young
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: and someone tells you something so profound, it is a gift.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: It is a gift that you have forever. And my
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: father's time with me, the things he said me is
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: what has kept me going all these years.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: It almost sounds like he spoke in proverbs to you.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Yes it is. It is one hundred percent. And you know,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I think that I'm just so lucky that he is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: my father, that he has been able to and and
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and when I speak, I think that I am the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: shadow of what he is. But I hope that you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: sometimes when I'm trying to speak to people, I'm trying
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: to communicate things. I hope that you know somebody takes
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: this in the way that my father spoke to me,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: and I could and absorb all of this and somehow
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: carried it inside me as a badge to heal myself,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: to fight and do things.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: That's so beautiful.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: So at forty five, you decide that you are going
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: to open Durjealing Express, a restaurant after having never been
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry in London, which is one of
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: the largest culinary cities in the entire world.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I need to know where you dreamt this up. Were
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you in the shower, were you in a car? Where
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: did this idea come from.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: It's very easy now to say, oh, this was always
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: my dream. It was absolutely not my dream. It was
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: not my dream because I began in my house. I
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: wanted to do something with food, but I didn't see
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: where the space would come from. I didn't know anyone
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: in the industry. It was when the landlord of my
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: first restaurant was eating at a pop up I was
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: cooking temporarily in a kitchen, and he told me, you know,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: your story doesn't end this way. You've got to go
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: and see the space. I have this, you know sight,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: go and have a look. It's when I walked in,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I heard people eating the food. I felt overwhelmed with
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the sense that this was my space. It was a
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: silly strange I went out of an obligation on you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: he said, a nice man. He's telling me to go
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and look at the restaurant. Or when I walked in
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: in that darkened room, I felt I actually could actually
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: smell the aroma of my cooking, which is bizarre. And
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I stood there and I wept because I knew this
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: is my space. I owned this space. And I walked
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: through that and suddenly I felt I don't know whether
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: it was powerful, but I suddenly felt I had no fear.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I felt I owned everything, that I could do anything,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: which is crazy, because I went literally to that space
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: feeling like, oh my god, I'm just doing a guy
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: a favor. I don't want to open a restaurant. I
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: came out, I went back to him and said I
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: want that space. And I didn't even speak to anyone.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I did call my dad. I did call my dad
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and say that, and my father was like, just go
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: for it, just go for it. I called my parents,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: But that was just crazy. I just felt suddenly that
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: you know, you feel the tracks of the train change,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: you know when you're riding a car as well. You know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: suddenly there was a path in front of me, and
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: the path had come to me. It wasn't that I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: was going on the path. It's a crazy feeling. I
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: felt that just suddenly I was on a path, and
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I was determined then to succeed.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So you told me earlier that bankers laughed you out
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: of the bank basically when you asked for funding for this.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: How did you fund the restaurant?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was very tough. I then all this kind
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of hard maths happened, and I was trying to figure
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: out how I could finance it. And here again it
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: was a woman who came in and backed me. A
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. I mean we just met over food,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: a New Yorker of Chinese descent. She is so American.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's like when people see us together, they
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: kind of figure out, I'm trying to figure out, how
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: are your such close friends. I met her over a
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: meal and I and she told me that I worked
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: for a bank, and I didn't think she looked word
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: for a bank because she was wearing bright pink. Everything
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: hair was dyed pink, and she had this Hello Kitty,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: three little suitcases of Hello Kitty. I was thinking, who
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: is she? She's some kind of suitcase designer. She just
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: she was wearing pink socks and pink shoes. And I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: was like, no way she know me. Come to come
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to my office. I went there and I saw in
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the middle of the whole open office there was a
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: desk full of jars of candy and balloons and that
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: was Winci Wong. And I was like, oh my god,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: she's unafraid. And see you always I always say, find
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: your tribe. Your tribe doesn't have to look like you,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: unlike what is in in the world, but tribes look
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the same. The tribe is a person who backs you.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And she sat down and she helped me understand I
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: could get alone. And she helped me, you know, trying
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: to kind of get all this understand that, you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: as possible to go to a bank. And then you know,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I connected up with the bank people. Then I put
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: in the application, but her thing was, you know, why
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: don't you try the bank. There After that, once I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: got some assurance from the bank, I spoke to a financer,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, someone like a benchure capitalist, and
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: they had promised me the money. The day before they
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: gave the money to me, they called me and said
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: we've changed the contract. We want much more control and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: we want to be equal partners. And I felt so
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: disrespected and I said, no, I'm not going to do
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: it this and I said, you know, we're not giving
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: you the money. And I sat on the floor and
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I wept. And my husband, who till then thought this
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: was like a crazy, stupid idea, and he told me,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? You know, how are
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: you going to He walked past me a few times
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and said, you know this is not the Warrior Princess.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: And I said, today I'm defeated. He came back and said,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you're not defeated. I have broken all the children's trust fund,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: it's all my life savings. I give you one hundred
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: and eighty five thousand pounds. Take it. And he said,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: if you make it, you make it fit, don't you
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: don't he says the Warrior princess doesn't get defeated this way,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: which is crazy considering he was like so appalled that
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I wanted to open a restaurant. He was an academic.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: He felt, I would, you know, make a difference being
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: a lawyer. And you know, he was right at that time.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: He told me, if you're interested in lifting up women,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: stay as a lawyer. What are you going to do
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: with food? And he was right at that time. It
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: made sense what he said, but he was somehow he
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: took a leap of faith. He was never supportive about
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: this whole food idea. The money down and said, go
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to it again. He's in my tribe. He's a man
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: and academic who never you know, wanted to support me.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I had to do the supper clubs behind his back.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I liked to him. You know, for years I was
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: feeding people in his house when he was traveling, and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: he had already found out about that by then. So
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it's crazy that you need to all kinds
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: of people. Help will come from everywhere. You need to
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: open your heart and you need to, you know, embrace
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: those who you think are on your tribe or on
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: your side. And that's how I got the money for
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: the restaurant. It was very hard work convincing them to
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: give it to me. In the end, I had to
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: pitch for it. I struggled. I was expected to explain
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: the entire business plan, which you know I can cook.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I couldn't understand numbers. I had memorized it, but when
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: I went I kind of forgot everything. So I just
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: decided to feed them, and I gave them lunch, and
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I kept hoping because they got in, they got so distracted,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: except for one person who kept insisting in asking me questions.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Everybody else got divert and saying what's in this food?
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It's so nice because I knew once they're eating, then
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I'm on the strong side. This is this is my strength.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: If I stand there looking at powerpoints and then trying
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: to explain numbers, that is me at my weakest. Why
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: should I go into battle on my weak foot. I
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: need to go in on my strength. My strength was food.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: I went in. I fed them. There was hot samosas.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: We set off the firearm, We did everything. We really
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: shook that whole building. And when I was leaving, I
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: told all the girls. I taken all my women in
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: to make hot samosas. In an office. You know, be brave,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: you know, you should do the things, do unconventional things.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: You need to shake things up, and that's what I did.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: That person would give me a hard time, one of
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the financial directors. He was still standing when I left.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I told the girls, he's not sitting because we're gonna
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: get it. And yeah, and we got the least for
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: them as well, you know, for the landlord. At that time.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: You know, this is pre Netflix and pre everything. I
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: was just someone who came in with passion, you know,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: kind of with five you know, women in their late fifties,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: grandmom's cooking. You know. I guess the food was good,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: but they probably saw in my eyes the fire of
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: someone who was unafraid. And I told them I will
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: bring you honor. I will bring you money. And then
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I did tell the guy who was giving me a
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: hard time, I will haunt you in your dreams if
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: you don't give it to me. I said, I will
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: come back in your dreams and you will always think
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: what if I had taken the chance and given the
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: restaurant to her. He stopped asking the questions after that.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I had to shut him down. He was asking me
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: really difficult financial questions. And I did tell him, but
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: you know, when Netflix happened, everything he would come up.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I should see him across the restaurant looking at me.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: He always put his thumbs up and he left. Yeah,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: so I threatened to haunt him in his dreams. Yeah,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you're going to do everything.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: You know, that's hilarious.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Need to be convinced. People may be convinced. You know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: try everything, Try everything, because you get one shot at
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: life every day. You and I live one day less.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: If you are afraid of what society thinks, you're afraid
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: of how you're gonna look, if you're afraid about no
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: one else has done this before. Why I had never
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: seen anyone like me in a restaurant Today, I am
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: that legacy that another forty five year old woman of
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: any color can walk into a room and say my
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: name I even when I'm dead, I have sown the
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: seeds of a revote we Why should you categorize us
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: as having passed our creative at our most powerful that
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: only you know women in their twenties and thirties are
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: considered to be creative. At forty, I was invincible, but
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: no one else saw that. Didn't understand I've fallen so
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: many many times. I was so scarred, but in me
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: was a fire that would wipe out everything in front
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: of me, all the barriers, And that's how I got
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the restaurant.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: You were a warrior, princess.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm really moved that your husband reminded you of
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: who you were and who you are. I think when
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: we're on our worst days, we do need somebody who
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: looks into our eyes and can shake us and say,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: you know, remember who you are Asthma Khan, remember who
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: you are Danielle Robey. It's really important. It's hard to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: do on your own.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And the thing is that you know things like what
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you do. I know, the kind of work you do
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: so important, so important because when you send out these
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: positive messages through your podcast other stuff that you do,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: you don't know who you're reaching to, but in your voice,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: someone suddenly finds that courage. In that darkness, your voice
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: brings that light. And I'm so happy to be on
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: your podcast because it makes me proud to know that
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I am associated you know with your podcast, that you
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: have an audience that I hope I can continue this
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: what you're doing because it's exciting. I think that women
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: need to gather around, We need to be a collective.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: We need to back each other up and go to
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: those that are making a difference and add your voice
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: so that does it becomes so strong, it's so important.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Well, you've built your entire business around backing women up.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Your kitchen is run by an all women team of
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: quote unquote housewives, and they've been with you since your
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: supper club that you created in your home that you mentioned.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: But I heard that this was actually not deliberate. How
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: did your team come together?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could kind of make up this whole story
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: saying a little bit. It was not They were you know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I live opposite the school where my kids went. These
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: many of them were nannies in the school. They you know, visibly,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I could see there were South Asians and they were
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: mainly looking after French families and they were living nineties.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: So I invited them to my house on a Sunday
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: because I would see them walking around the streets because
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: they had nowhere to go. Sunday was their day off,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: but where would they go. I started inviting them to
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: my house. Then they started coming a little earlier to
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: pick up the kids from school. You know, come in
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: and have tea, and we solely built this relationship. In
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the beginning, they were hesitant because they knew who I
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: was because of my royal heritage, so they were like
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: not willing to sit on the chair. They were very awkward.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: But very soon all these barriers broke down over cups
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: of tea and samosa and listening to Bollywood music. We
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: broke all these barriers and we were all the same,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: on the same level. And so when I did the
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: supper clubs, I invited them not to cook because they
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: don't know how to cook the food I cook. Some
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of them, you know, never even eat in this kind
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: of food. I called them to take away the leftovers,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: the extra. But they were so excited to be part
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: of project that they would come in because it was
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: weekends and it was their day off. They would come
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: to help chop the onions, wash the pots. They suddenly
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: felt they had gone home because this is how we
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: cook at home. Yeah, I'm sure, yes, sure in your
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: family as well. You know, when you have a festival
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: or a big occasion, all the kind of aunts and
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: the moms and they all get together and they're cooking,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: and so they just suddenly felt from their single, isolated
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: existence where they're all without their families, they're living with strangers,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: they're taking care of other people's children, and this is
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: their life. Suddenly they were in a kitchen full of women,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: the aromas of food, the joy and the excitement. This
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: is how we started. We started that way. And I
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: also knew that I could not hire men because in
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: the Indian food scene, most of the men who are
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: cooking in the west, even in India, in five star hotels,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and I've all learned in culinary school we are deeply patriarchal.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Boys are never in the kitchen. Women cook intuitively. They
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: cook like their mothers. They cook by watching and by
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: using all their senses, including you know, the sound of
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the spice cracking, for the aroma of the onions as
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: it's caramelizing. You don't have to explain all of this
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: because they were in the kitchen when it happened. We
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: measured with our eyes and our hands. We don't use
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: way scales, and none no gizmo machines, you know, we
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: don't use Soviet and you know, having all kinds of
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: complicated food processors, we don't know. Yeah, you feel it
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: because we are just home cooks. It's by touch, by feel,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: by watching, and also through kind of listening to instructions
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: that I'm giving someone else, Like you know, take out
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: the potatoes. They instinctively know, oh, we've got to get
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: this ready now, because that is ready now to go.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: No one is giving instructions. That's why my mind is
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: blown when I go to the kitchen and see people
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: shouting and wish f and what I how come you
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: guys don't know what the hell is happening?
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: What you know?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Why are you giving shouting instructions as if you know
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: it's some military brigade, this brigade system that has been
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: replicated into kitchens, of commands being given from one rank
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: to another. I don't know. I would go mad if
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I had to work like that. I can't. You know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you should be laughing, you should be smiling. It's a
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: joy to cook. It's such a privilege and an honor
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: to cook for other people, to feed them, to nourish them.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Why are you screaming at each other?
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I don't understand asma I've heard you call that sort
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: of a combat sport. Like these, particularly white male chefs
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: operate in a specific way because that's how they were taught.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: And there is a lot of yelling.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And you know, I read probably every article there is
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: about Darjealing Express and they all say it's known, of
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: course for the authentic Indian food, but also for its
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: quote warm and cheerful atmosphere. And you have this great
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: line about singing versus screaming.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if things get tough, sing because it
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: lifts you up. And then suddenly everyone's in the same
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: rhythm and we're all breathing in the same way. See,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: if you sing a song, we're all breathing in the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: same way because you know, you pull your breath up
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: for the for the high notes, and you're everyone is
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: then calm because we're all singing the same song. Some
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: of them don't know the words, but they know the rhythm,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and in that rhythm there is a beat. And then
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: suddenly everything comes to everyone's cooking. And the aggression that
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: you have in kitchens I think is driven a lot
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: by male chefs wanting to, you know, eradicate the feminine
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: energy that there is in food. Because when you talk
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to them and you ask, you know, in all the interviews,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: who's the best best chef, they'll say, my mom, my grandmam.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: How come no one looks like that in your kitchen?
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And you know in in England all the dinner ladies
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: are all older women. So it's school. You know, it's
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: not dinner, it's like, you know, lunch. But food in
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: schools is by women. When you go back home, it's women.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And then suddenly, because it's a professional, you become this
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: crazy monster psychopath who's shouting at everybody, who is so
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: physically aggressive. They've made into a combat spot, as I've said,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: but also they've made it so masculine, testosterone driven, so
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: you do find I mean, I'm not going to name them,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: but a lot of female head chefs also take on
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: this persona of aggression, of testosterone driven kind of anger
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: and you know, being bullying and physical, kind of being tough.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: When has food become this kind of physical you know, sport. Yes,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: that's not what food is. First of all, is a
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: privilege to eat. There's enough hunger in the world today
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: and the fact that you are cooking should be a
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: place of joy, not of anger. But when you see
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: kitchens where there's so much anger, people might be impressed
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: by that food. But I don't think it's not a
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: shingyo soul.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I am so struck by what you said about these
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: prestigious kitchens don't reflect what our homes look like. How
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: come women aren't cooking in these kitchens everybody?
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: If you ask.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Them what meal they want when they're really hungry or tired,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: or want to celebrate something, they all say, I would
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: just want a home cooked meal. And I think that's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: part of the magic of what your restaurant is giving people.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: All of the South Asian immigrant women you've hired are
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: in their fifties and sixties. You say they're the backbone
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of your kitchen. What do you think younger chefs could
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: learn from how you've structured your business to accommodate people
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: with families. I know you've made specific choices about how
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: staff can meet both their personal and professional obligations.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think that a lot of kitchens have this
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: crazy shift pattern of double shifts. Come early in the morning,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: you take a break, and then you work on at dinner.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Many restaurants have different menus for lunch and dinner, and
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: this kind of fourteen r shift or a twelve hour
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: shift excludes a lot of women who have family, but
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: also excludes empathetic men, normal men who have other interests
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: in life. And that's why this kind of almost is
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: like they all become psychopaths working in this kind of
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: crazy environment where they have no work life balance. And
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: it is true that if you on hospitality, it's hard
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: for you to get Friday night off Saturday night off.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: I understand that, but doesn't have to be that way.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: You can work out different shift patterns that it fits in.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: And for younger women who are looking at hospitality, you
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: are our future leaders. You will change the whole of
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: hospitality because one day you will become powerful. So I
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: know it you feel powerless coming in at a lower rank,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: but if you leave, it is a brain brain. We
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: don't have anyone to fight the corner for the next
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: generation of women. I feel their breath. I know they're
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: coming behind me, and I am staying here to fight
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: for them. If you can just stay on and find
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: people who you can connect with who will support you.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: This doesn't necessarily have to be women. It can be
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: men too. It can be anybody who can give you hope,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: give you anchor. And for all of us who are
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: more powerful and more secure, we have a moral duty
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: so through speaking to you, I do a lot of
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: mentoring in my real life. In the restaurant, I speak up.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I hope to go into a firm or to do
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: some other medium where I want to inspire people to
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: understand that when you are at the top, don't throw
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: away the ladder, hold them ladder and get the others
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: up because this will make a difference. So if you
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: are young at this point, you are in an incredible position.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: You will change everything. Don't abandon hope, find the courage,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: find friends, but do not take injustice. I hear a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: lot of women coming and saying when we complain to
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: even our female head chef or to the female owner,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: they said, oh, you know, this is how it is.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: You're going to suck it up. No, you do not
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: have to suck it up. You fight, but you do
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: not give up on the profession. Do not stay silent.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: You need to be in a position where you are
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: able to fight that corner and one day you will
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: become so powerful that you can become that leader for
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: other people. So, really, for the young chefs, I fully
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: understand this is not easy. Yeah, but you are doing
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: this not just for yourself. Imagine that You're doing it
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: for all these even girls not born as yet, think
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: of them. You're going to live. You're clearing their path.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Please stay, please fight, Please be brave.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Have you seen the ripple effects of your work?
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have, and this helps me continue. It's not
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: easy what I'm doing. I'm trying to run a business.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: I write books, I do other stuff. I have personally
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: seen women going on to open restaurants who I mentored
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: and who actually would come in on a Sunday and
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: play restaurant restaurant in my restaurant, and they went on
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: to open restaurants. I've seen women who who write to
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: me from around the world saying, you know, I decided
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: that I was not going to take this nonsense. I
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: decided to push back. You know, I complained, I you know,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: I left my job and I found somewhere else that
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't have to be, you know, allow anyone to
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: touch me against my consent. Yes, I am so privileged
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: that I've seen it in my lifetime, and I've seen
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: women coming and talking to me. I try to go
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: out and I reach out to women, and you know,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: so this is also why I'm speaking to you, because
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I know that you know there are there people who
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: are listening to me who are also in that crossroad
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: that you know, do I bail out? Do I stay?
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: And do I fight? You know, sometimes you think it's
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: not worth it, you know, and I just want to
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: be able to reach out to people, and I know
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: that you know, it can be hard. It can be
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: also quite a lonely battle, especially female founders. When you're
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: a sole female founder, it's a very lonely place. You're
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: never at rest, you can never put your burden down.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I struggle physically, emotionally, mentally, I find hard
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: to continue. Then I imagine those women and I imagine
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: them walking into a room and owning it, and I
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: lift myself up thinking that. So for younger women who
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: are having difficult times, imagine yourself powerful. Imagine yourself as
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: the leader. Imagine yourself as the warrior princess.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: That friend who always has the best cocktails at her place.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Now that friend is you thanks to twenty one Seeds
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Infuse tequila. Twenty one Seeds is blanco tequila that's infused
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: with the juice of real fruit, making it incredibly smooth.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: With all that effortless flavor, how could it not make
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: a deliciously easy spicy marg paloma or tequila sprits. But
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: don't just take my word for it. Try one of
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: their three flavors for yourself. Okay, Cucumber, hallapeno, grapefruit, hibiscus
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: or Valencia orange. Try twenty one Seeds Infuse tequila at
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: twenty one seeds dot com. Enjoy responsibly twenty one Seeds Diagio.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: New York, New York.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: You've spoken about age pretty deliberately. I notice when we
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: talk that you mention what age you were when you
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: started law, when you open the restaurant, and how you
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: felt at those ages. You started a business later in life,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: after starting a family, after going through years of school.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Do you think that starting a business later in life
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: was beneficial to your career at all?
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not saying one size fits Aul, But for me,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: being older, having been defeated and fallen over enough hurdles,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I understood that I have the strength to get up
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: and fight. So I think that it helped me to
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: start late in life. But it wasn't just me. It
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: was a collective of women. This is not just my success.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: I've had some incredible support system that allowed me to
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: be what I am. But I have said this before.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: It came at the price of me probably not being
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: the best mother, not being the best wife, and I
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: accept that, and I hope later, as I grow older,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: my children will forgive me. I was never there for
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Saturday nights. I wasn't there in their difficult times. I
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: tried to be there. So whether you start early or
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: you start late, for women's always about spinning lots of plates,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: and some plates will fall. You have to forgive yourself.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: You've got to move on. So it did help me
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: that I had already perfected the art of cooking, that
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I had gone through law school, which taught me the
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: biggest lesson of the power of advocacy, to speak up,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: because I know that change happened when someone said I'm
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: not getting off my bus. My bus seat segregation ended,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: the women who threw themselves in front of horses, the
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: suffragette women in the United Kingdom. They never lived to
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: see all of us getting the right to vote. But
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: you read enough about history, and you read enough about
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: changes in law that happened from the grassroot, you know
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: you change happens, and then you know that if you
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: speak up, you can be part of that change. You
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: can be part of history. And that is what being
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: older helped me, because I had read enough, I'd seen enough.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I'd also seen how fit alas can lead to success,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: how not to give up. So yes, it helped me osthma.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Would you make the same decisions if you were to
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: do it all over again?
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would. I would some things that I wish
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I knew earlier. I would have taken greater care of
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: my health. My knees are in bad condition. But except
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: for those bits where I should have looked after my
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: health better instead of being so driven and focused on
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: just the business. I would do this all over again, definitely.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I heard you wear a very particular robe that was
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: made for you. What's the significance of it?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: I knew that I was going for the gala the
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Times Times one hundred most influential people. I wore this
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: utter up, which is this ancient kind of block print
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: of nuts. You know, it really is kind of made
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: with herbs and crushed stones, and I wore this. This
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: is designed by some deep coast love and a kind
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: of India's kind of iconic. He does really glam stuff,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: but for me, he made this where I told him
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I want to walk on the robes representing every woman
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: who never got a chance to go on stage. And
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: he made them in different panels, and all the what
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: he was telling me, the scars where the joints are
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: of the different fabric he embroidered with gold thread, and
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I just loved that because in that shimmering gold thread,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: all the scars were hidden, the scars that I'd made
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: in so many women. And I walked in that robe
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: and I was so emotional. This was not about me.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: It was about every woman who battled, who may have lost,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: but I was celebrating her and I in those panels
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: were all the tears and all the scars. But it
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: was victory for us, all because I was recognized as
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: a pioneer for the work I've done. And they are
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: pioneers too. They may not have been able to wear
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: the robe and walk, but for me, they were part
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: of my journey.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: Ozma.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: It was so exciting to read in articles as I
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: was preparing for this, all of the prestige that Darjeeling
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Express has. You were featured in the Michelin Guide. Of course,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: you were featured on Chef's Table, and I think that
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: we talk a lot about the big decisions that people
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: make on their way to success, because those are the
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: ones that are written in articles, those are the ones
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: that we know about. I'm really curious about a small
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: decision that you've made that you think has had the
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: biggest impact on your career.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question, Thank you. I think going
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: in when I had no money, had no experience of
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: running a restaurant, but jumping into that it is it
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: was a small decision. I could have come back and said,
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: you know, thank you very much, but it's not for me.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I then stepped up and said, let's discuss this. I
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: want to open the restaurant. It was a crazy thing
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: because literally I had no money, I had no experience.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do anything about restaurants. Running
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: a supper club and running a restaurant very different. So
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: when I did run to open the restaurant, I really suffered.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: You know, our service was terrible, food was great, it
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: was was shit, you know, it just we didn't know
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: how to do it. So the thing is that it
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: was so outside my comfort zone. But the fact that
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: I was willing to continue a conversation, maybe I wouldn't
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: have got the restaurant. But if I was going to
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: be doing a lot of overthinking at that time, I
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: didn't overthink. I just ran on emotion. That I eventually
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: get the restaurant was fine. But I think that that
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: little decision that you know, this is crazy. I have
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: no money, I have no experience, but god, I was
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: just on fire thinking what if I can do it.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: I think that step you will not always get everything
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: you want to get in life. If you don't believe
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: in yourself, no one else will. And you're always the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: first to undermine ourselves and lack confidence and think, oh,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen, and think what will everybody else think?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: And someone has done it that way, don't look at
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: anyone else. You will do it your way. And I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: think that that decision that I went forward was that
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: probably the decision that has greatest impact, because I think
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: that if I had not had a restaurant, I may
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: not have been able to get to where I am
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: right now. And the restaurant is a very important part
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: of my story.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: You talk about undermining how do you manage the people
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: that underestimated you.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I manage them by ignoring them.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: You don't manage them at all like that.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: I don't interact with them. What could I do? They
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: told me I was fat, They told me I was dark,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I was ugly, and that no one will marry me
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: and that nothing good would happen in my life for me.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: What do you?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: How can you have a conversation with these people? They
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: just mean They were mean to me, and the laughter
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: and the kind of side comments about the way I dressed,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: that I was didn't look nice. I didn't have a conversation.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it didn't hurt. It hurt a lot.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: It hurt a lot. And since my success after Chef's
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: stable Load, I've also lost a lot of friends and
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: that hurts too.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Can you say more about that?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I've never spoken about this. Yeah, I've not changed. And
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: the people who I'm very close to are all my
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: school friends, for whom I things have unchanged. But people
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I met in the beginning of the food journey, and then,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: of course, you know, the trajectory, My trajectory changed. I
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: accept that. Yes, it kind of bent into another space. Yeah,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I do so. I do feel I don't have friends
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: who I had a while at a while, but it's okay.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I also made other friends who are who've been great
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and you learned this, You learn this through life that
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: you know not everyone is your well wisher and not
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: everyone is going to be with you as your journey
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: becomes something spectacular and different.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: But you know what's hard about that osthma is I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: think you've at least I've felt this way. And I'm
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: asking you more about this because I've actually experienced this
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: for the first time recently. But some of the people
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: that I think I need to let go of I
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: thought were my well wishers.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: And that's why it hurts.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, And the reason why when you asked me this
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: question I thought I'm going to bring this up as
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: well is because almost we feel ashamed to say it.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: It's as if it's our feeling that yes, we are
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: losing the friends who were think it's not please, it's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: not our feeling. And I want women to especially it
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: happens to women someone It doesn't happen to men A lot.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Happens to women a lot where it's very toxic because
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: you know it's barbed and its comments and it's it's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: tough because you don't want people to stand and say, oh,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: you're great and you're brilliant. And well done. I mean,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: it's nice if they do, but you know you don't.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: You just want to have a normal friendship, normal life,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: normally as it was before. As suddenly that it no
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: longer is normal, something has happened in it. And when
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: you pick up those undertones, that's when you get up
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: from the table and leave. When honor is not there
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: and respect is not there, there is no point in
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: staying and hanging onto a relationship. It's not easy. I agree,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: you want to be included, you want to be part
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: of that group, but you do not need to be
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: there if you're disrespected, if not respected openly, but if
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: you feel somehow rejected, or feel somehow undermined and there
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: are comments that make you feel uncomfortable, walk away. M hmm.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: It's as if you know, there's that quote.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: People are in your life for a reason, a season
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: or a lifetime, and it hurts when you thought that
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: some of the lifetime people end up just being a
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: season or a reason.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I think that, and embrace those and
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: hold them close. Those who are there for a lifetime.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: I think that there there are so many amazing people
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: around who step up, who are generous, and who want
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: to who want you to do well, and focus on them.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Don't focus on those that make you feel worse. Because
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: things are tough as it is, we already have a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: lot of drama going on which you can't control. You
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: can control who you are friends are. You don't need
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: to be with this flock of birds. You know. If
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: the flock of birds are being not so nice to you,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: don't hang around with them. It's I know it's easy
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: for me to say, but try it. Actually it feels
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: good walk away from toxic relationships.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I have a few rapid fire requests for you. Okay,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: what's one thing every woman should try once?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Being outside your comfort zone? If it is means, like
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how to swim, I really
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: want to learn how to swim. Do something that you
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: are so scared of doing that is holding you back.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Definitely do that one tool to build your confidence, right.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's such a powerful thing. Write down your
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: thoughts and then read them out to yourself. It really
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: does help. It helps you because you know when you
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: speak your thoughts out, because you're reading it out, it
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: kind of makes you feel I think it's really healing.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I do it. It's worth trying it.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: What's going to be carved on your hypothetical tombstone.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: I think it will have to be here lies the
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: warrior princess who was unafraid.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, that makes me want to cry. Who
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: is unafraid? A dream that you have tucked away at
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the moment.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: My dream is to have a farm. I want to
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: be able to watch in through a glasshouse. I want
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: to watch sunrise and sunset. I want to live surrounded
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: by trees. I don't think it's going to ever happen.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: I live in the middle of love and in India.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, not somewhere where you can do
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: this easily, But that is my dream. I want a
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: mountain house. I want to be able to be surrounded
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: by animals, and I want to have lots of cats.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Asthma, you've made all your dreams come true. I think
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: you can make this one happen.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I hope I can.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: What does it mean to live a life well lived?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: I think to be able to look at yourself in
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the mirror and look at yourself and feel that you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: were not unaffair to anyone. For me, that is the
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: best way to live a life. To know that you
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: didn't damage anyone. You didn't deliberately hurt and undermine somebody,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: You didn't damage the inner confidence. I think that for
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: me is the best kind of life. When you live
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: your own life. You pull people up, but you don't
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: drag people down.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, you are such a great public speaker. What is
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: a great tip for public speaking?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I think when you're speaking in public, don't take yourself
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: so seriously. Do not worry about the occasion of the stage.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Go and tell your story. Imagine that you're going there
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: to tell a story. I think that that's really important.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: The more you make it into this oh you know,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: I am going in and there are like one hundred
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: people standing there waiting, you know, I'm on the stage,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: And the moment you start getting getting into the kind
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: of these basics, you know, oh my god, I'm being
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: filmed or someone's watching me. No, don't worry about it.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: Go and speak, speak without fear, be open hearted. And
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I think that that's really important. I know it's not easy.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: You of course, when you walk on stage, you can
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: see how many eyes are looking at you, but you've
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: got to just block it all out and just imagine
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: that you're in this open space and speak.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: What is a book that you've read that has changed
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: your life, something you think everybody should read.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I think it has to be Collijia Brown's Prophet. I
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: read that at a very young age, and I still
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: read the Prophet because I think that I've always loved
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: you know when you know it when words are written
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: in rhyme, And I think that that's still a book
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: that I find very inspirational.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I do a card game that I'm going to bring
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: you when I see you at Shinaway. But the question
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I pulled for you is what's something you wish people
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: could see about you that they don't see at first glance.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: This is a difficult question. What they don't see is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: really the scars. Yeah, the fact that I have my
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: path was full of thorns. I'm still carrying them. It
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: looks like, you know, oh she's say, you know, she's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: got everything going and everything's working out. It has been brutal,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: it's been painful, and it hurts. It hurts emotionally and
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: it hurts physically. I struggle. I struggle just to sometimes
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: keep going on. When you see me and you hear
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: me speak, or you meet me in real life, you
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: don't see this person who is actually very scarred and
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: physically damaged as well by everything that's happened. I tried
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: to speak about it, but I don't think people actually
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: pick out how hard it has been. It's been very hard,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: and one day in my farm, I will finally put
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: my head down and rest. Yeah, right now, it's really
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: tough asthma.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I can't pretend to know about the pain and the
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: scars that you've been through, because probably only you can
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: understand it. But I can recognize it because I from
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: interviewing people. One of the things I've known and learned
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: is that people that have so much light have equal
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: parts darkness too. It's like a Murphy's law or whatever
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: it's called, and so I know that to be true.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: The last question I have for you is what is
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: the smartest decision you've ever made.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: I think the smartest decision I have made is to
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: go by my instincts when I hired people, because I
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: understood one thing that you can teach people's skills, but
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: you cannot teach them resilience and grit and belief in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: what they do. Yeah, so it's really hard because you
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: know they're really bad at their job, and you think
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: this is like, why didn't I take an experienced person
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: who knows what to do? But that is one thing
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: that I'm really glad that I've gone for the gutten
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: stags of picking up people who just I saw something
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: in them. I didn't see their cars, but I know
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: they're carrying them. And I think that's the one thing
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: that I'm grateful. I always go for that thing that
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I picked people to be on my team who have
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: who are warriors.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I actually have one more question asthma, Yes, what's been
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: the most fun part of all of this for you?
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: Can I be really no, I'm going to say it
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: because that's the first thing I thought of was meeting
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Paul Rudd. Oh my god, that was the nicest thing
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: about everything. He's so wonderful. But you know when I
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: was when I went to the Times magazine gala that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: morning in New York, he sent me breakfast. Ah, I
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: was just so wonderful, and he organized breakfast. He was
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: so one. He said, huge amounts of bagels with different
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: kinds of dips, and he said, you got You're in
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: New York and you've got it. This is my favorite place.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Paul Rudd, I hope that I listen to this.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: That is amazing and not what I thought you were
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: gonna say. Were you a fan? Did you watch his movies?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Or you just thought he was so kind when you met.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: No, No, I was a fan. I was tongue tied.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: And the craziest thing is I walked to him and said,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I said, I hope you don't mind. I want to
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: take a picture with you. He told me, no, I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: want to take a picture with you. I'm your friend.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: I almost died. I'm so happy I didn't Boody pass out.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: That is the best answer ever. Thank you for that.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: I don't even know why I said it. Oh my god,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: I mean anyway, it's true. It's true. It's the truth. Yeah,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: he's so cool.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: I love when people surprise you by being even better
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: than you wanted them to be, right, because so often
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: it's the opposite.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: But the other thing is that you know, I have
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: no filters. I just run on emotion, and I just
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: think that you should be true to what you are
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: when you ask a question. That's the only thing I
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: could think of the sport run. So yeah, that's the answer.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for sharing your time with me. I
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: can't wait to give you a big hug in person.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: See us in a dickhead. Thank you so much.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: To have a good day. I'll see you next week