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Widow Erika Kirk Breaks Silence @ Death Penalty Ruling in Charlie Kirk Murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: What the Charlie Kirk family has endured is excruciating after
0:11
Speaker 2: his assassination by, reportedly, Tyler Robinson. In the last days,
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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's wife, now widow Erica Kirk, breaks her silence
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Speaker 2: after a death penalty ruling by a judge. The case
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Speaker 2: now headed to trial. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:36
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. It's true,
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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica, breaks her silence after a judge
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Speaker 2: orders Tyler Robinson, the man accused of assassinating Kirk, to
0:49
Speaker 2: stand trial for murder. Erica Kirk spoke of her family's, quote,
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Speaker 2: year of unimaginable grief. Just let those words sink in.
1:03
Speaker 2: A year of unimaginable grief. Erica Kirk comes face-to-face with
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Speaker 2: her husband, Charlie Kirk's alleged assassin, at a high-stakes hearing.
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Speaker 2: The grieving widow sitting through days of proceedings beside Charlie
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Speaker 2: Kirk's parents as prosecutors laid out their strongest evidence against Erica.
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Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson. This is what we know of the facts.
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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, the 31-year-old head of Turning Point USA, is
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Speaker 3: shot dead during a speaking event at Utah Valley University
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Speaker 3: in Orem. The shooting took place about 20 minutes into
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Speaker 3: his speech. Bystanders said Kirk was.
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Speaker 1: Hit in the.
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Speaker 3: A UVU alert confirmed, quote, a single shot was fired
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Speaker 3: on campus toward a visiting speaker. Police are investigating now.
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Speaker 3: Video from the scene showed students running as the shots
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Speaker 3: rang out and Kirk being rushed away by his security team.
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Speaker 3: Utah Governor Spencer Cox posted on X, quote, those responsible
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Speaker 3: will be held fully accountable. Violence has no place in
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Speaker 3: our public life. Americans of every political persuasion must unite
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Speaker 3: in condemning this act. Our prayers are with Charlie, his family,
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Speaker 3: and all those affected. Utah Senator Mike Lee wrote, quote,
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Speaker 3: Please join me in praying for Charlie Kirk and the
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Speaker 3: students gathered there. Vice President Vance added on X, quote,
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Speaker 3: Say a prayer for Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy
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Speaker 3: and a young father. FBI Director Kash Patel said, quote,
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Speaker 3: We are closely monitoring reports of the tragic shooting involving
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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. Our thoughts are with Charlie,
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Speaker 3: his loved ones and everyone involved. Agents will be on
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Speaker 3: the scene quickly and the FBI stands in full support
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Speaker 3: of the ongoing response. Kirk himself had posted online only
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Speaker 3: moments before the attack, quote, we are so back. Utah
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Speaker 3: Valley University is fired up and ready for the first
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Speaker 3: stop on the American comeback tour. Charlie Kirk rose to
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Speaker 3: national prominence after co-founding Turning Point USA in 2012. He
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Speaker 3: has since built the group into a major conservative force
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Speaker 3: on campuses, created several offshoots, including Turning Point Action and
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Speaker 3: Turning Point Faith, and he hosts the Charlie Kirk Show.
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Speaker 3: He has been a strong supporter of President Trump and
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Speaker 3: has often spoken out on issues like critical race theory
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Speaker 3: and government mandates. On Wednesday, he was speaking under a
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Speaker 3: tent at the university courtyard as part of his American
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Speaker 3: comeback tour. Shots were fired from the top of a
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Speaker 3: nearby building about 200 yards away. The campus went into
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Speaker 3: lockdown while police and federal agents swarmed the scene. Earlier
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Speaker 3: reports stated a shooter was arrested, but that has been
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Speaker 3: corrected by UVU to state that there is no suspect
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Speaker 3: in custody.
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Speaker 1: With a high degree of certainty, we have him.
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Speaker 4: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
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Speaker 1: We got him. A massive manhunt.
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Speaker 5: The suspect was taken into custody at 10 p.m.
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Speaker 6: Local time.
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Speaker 2: The assassin who gunned down a loving father.
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Speaker 1: Of two, a husband.
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Speaker 3: The suspect was apprehended in a historic time period.
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Speaker 1: We're in custody, okay? In custody.
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Speaker 2: The assassin who guns down a father of two.
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Speaker 7: He is observed on video in a plain maroon T-shirt,
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Speaker 7: light-colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo, and
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Speaker 7: light-colored shoes. Arriving on UVU campus in a gray Dodge
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Speaker 7: Challenger at approximately 8.29 a.m., Tyler Robinson had become more
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Speaker 7: political in recent years. A second unfired casing read, Oh, Bella, ciao, Bella, ciao, Bella, ciao, ciao, ciao.
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Speaker 7: And a third unfired casing read, If you read this,
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Speaker 7: you are gay.
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Speaker 2: His wife, and two little children who will grow up
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Speaker 2: without daddy.
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Speaker 7: This is a very sad day for, again, for our country.
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Speaker 8: And I do know this is going to be a
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Speaker 8: federal case, and there's many of us believe that Charlie
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Speaker 8: was targeted because of his political ideology.
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Speaker 9: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: What's going to happen to this guy?
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Speaker 3: Well, I hope he was going to be found guilty,
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Speaker 3: I would imagine, and I hope he gets the death penalty.
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Speaker 10: Tyler James Robinson. Count one, aggravated murder.
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Speaker 9: Count two, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury.
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Speaker 10: I am filing a.
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Speaker 9: Notice of intent to seek the death penalty.
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Speaker 10: The defendant is believed to have targeted Charlie.
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Speaker 9: Kirk based on Charlie Kirk's political expression and did so
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Speaker 9: knowing the children were present and would witness the homicide.
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Speaker 2: Death penalty is the death penalty is the death penalty.
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Speaker 1: They loaded him.
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Speaker 2: Up that's right with so many alternative counts it will
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Speaker 2: be hard for a jury to find him not guilty
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Speaker 2: listen i.
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Speaker 9: Am filing the criminal information charging tyler james robinson age
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Speaker 9: 22 with the following crimes Count one, aggravated murder, a
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Speaker 9: capital offense, for intentionally or knowingly causing the death of
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Speaker 9: Charlie Kirk under circumstances that created a great.
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Speaker 10: Risk of death to others.
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Speaker 9: Count two, felony discharge of a firearm. causing serious bodily injury,
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Speaker 9: a first-degree felony.
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Speaker 1: Legal term, they ain't playing.
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Speaker 2: Joining me in all-star panel to make sense of what
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Speaker 2: we are learning in the courtroom, straight out to Randolph
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Speaker 2: Rice joining us, former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney,
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Speaker 2: joining us at Rice Law. Randolph Rice, charging in the alternative.
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Speaker 2: I've done it a million times. If I got a
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Speaker 2: case and the grand jury had not indicted in the alternative,
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Speaker 2: I would either A, send it back to the grand
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Speaker 2: jury and represent it myself to get those alternative counts,
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Speaker 2: or have the judge charge the jury with the alternative counts.
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Speaker 1: What I mean by.
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Speaker 2: That is you shoot Jackie. You plan to shoot Jackie.
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Speaker 2: It's malice of forethought. It's premeditated murder.
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Speaker 1: Murder one. So I charge you. with murder one, but
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Speaker 1: I'm worried.
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Speaker 2: So then I charged you with voluntary manslaughter, murder two,
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Speaker 2: involuntary manslaughter, if I'm desperate. In other words, there is
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Speaker 2: no way you are walking out of that courtroom, if
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Speaker 2: I have anything to do with it, without a conviction.
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Speaker 1: They loaded him up. Explain in a nutshell, Rice, nutshell.
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Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, you did a great job of explaining that
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Speaker 11: because if you don't get that top count, that most
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Speaker 11: serious count, you've got the backups. But the problem here is,
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Speaker 11: and there is a problem, is that I think that
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Speaker 11: they may be reaching on this aggravated murder. Now, they
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Speaker 11: may be using this as leverage to force him or
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Speaker 11: try to get him to take a plea. But the
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Speaker 11: aggravating circumstances at this point, I think, are very, very simple.
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Speaker 1: Head blowing off.
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Speaker 4: Are you.
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Speaker 1: They're reaching. Are you serious? This guy, according to the state, this.
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Speaker 2: Guy stakes out the place, and I believe they're going
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Speaker 2: to end up with video showing that was not his
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Speaker 2: first trip to the top of that roof.
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Speaker 1: He stakes it out.
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Speaker 2: He plans it in advance, even a wardrobe change. A
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Speaker 2: lot of forethought goes into this. He targets someone because of.
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Speaker 1: Their freedom of speech.
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Speaker 2: I don't care if you agree with Kirk or disagree
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Speaker 2: with Kirk.
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Speaker 1: I really couldn't care less. Doesn't matter.
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Speaker 2: He targeted him for his freedom of speech.
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Speaker 1: And that is a major, major.
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Speaker 2: Aggravating circumstances akin to shooting a judge or shooting a
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Speaker 2: political figure like the president or the vice president. or
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Speaker 2: shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop. You go after
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Speaker 2: them because of what they represent that you don't like.
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Speaker 1: And you actually, you know what?
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Speaker 2: You really know how to kick it off wrong, don't you?
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Speaker 2: I bet you're super downer at a party. You come
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Speaker 2: in to Crime Stories and blurt out the state is reaching...
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Speaker 2: What could be more aggravating?
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Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, the problem is that they're trying to rely
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Speaker 11: on the fact that there were children present or that
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Speaker 11: the crime could have hurt somebody else. And again, that
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Speaker 11: seems to be a bit.
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Speaker 8: Of a stretch for them.
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Speaker 1: Show him a picture. Show him the crowd. There, there
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Speaker 1: you go. Look, look at that.
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Speaker 2: He shot from a little under 200 yards away, and
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Speaker 2: you're saying nobody else was in danger, Rice?
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Speaker 9: What?
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Speaker 1: Look at your monitor.
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Speaker 11: Nobody else is in danger in this situation, at least from, again,
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Speaker 11: I'm arguing the defense here. And I think that the
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Speaker 11: state has a good argument, but in the defense's argument,
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Speaker 11: they're going to say this was a single bullet that
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Speaker 11: had a single target that ultimately killed Charlie Kirk. And
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Speaker 11: it didn't endanger the other people in the crowd. And
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Speaker 11: that's where there may be a problem for the prosecutor's
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Speaker 11: office in trying to seek the charge that seeks the
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Speaker 11: death penalty.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: So Randolph, you come in, you plop down in the studio.
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Speaker 2: And you first say the state is reaching. They can't
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Speaker 2: prove it. Did I not hear you just say the
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Speaker 2: state has a good argument? So which one is it?
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Speaker 2: Does the state have a good argument? I say they do.
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Speaker 2: Or are they overreaching? You know, that's a very sad
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Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense
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Speaker 2: attorney that doesn't say in a murder case you're overreaching?
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Speaker 9: Oh, no.
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Speaker 11: Every single case, every defense attorney says that you're overreaching.
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Speaker 11: I do it in all the cases that I defend
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Speaker 11: because that's their job. Their job is to challenge the
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Speaker 11: prosecution to say, Did you try to get too much here?
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Speaker 11: And again, this is a tactic that the prosecution is
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Speaker 11: using to try to get the defendant to take a
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Speaker 11: plea saying, hey, look.
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Speaker 1: Did you actually say the P word, plea? You think
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Speaker 1: there's going to be a plea?
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Speaker 2: You think they're going to pull a Koberger with the
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Speaker 2: whole world watching them? You don't think they're going to
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Speaker 2: take this to trial and seek the death penalty, whether
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Speaker 2: they get it or not?
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Speaker 11: I thought Koberger was going to go to trial, and
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Speaker 11: look what happened there. I think that this is something
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Speaker 11: they're trying to push him into is to take a plea.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what?
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Speaker 2: That's the first thing you've said so far to me,
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Speaker 2: Randolph Rice, that makes any sense. But actually, now that
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Speaker 2: I think about it, you're absolutely correct.
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Speaker 1: The number of counts.
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Speaker 2: could be a tactic to make the defendant plead guilty
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Speaker 2: because there seems to be no way out with all
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Speaker 2: these alternative counts. I don't see it happening, though. I
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Speaker 2: don't see a plea going down in this case. But again,
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Speaker 2: you're right. We didn't see one coming in Koberger either.
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Speaker 2: But put him up one more time. Randolph, guys, let
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Speaker 2: me remind you, Rice is a former very successful felony prosecutor.
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Speaker 2: He's won a lot of cases. Now he is a
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Speaker 2: criminal defense attorney, civil attorney. So, Randolph, the aggravating circumstance
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Speaker 2: you mentioned was just that other people were in danger.
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Speaker 1: It's not like you shoot Jackie in the studio and
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Speaker 1: it's just the two of you.
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Speaker 2: This is a shooting with a throng of people, thousands
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Speaker 2: of people. If that bullet had gone the wrong way,
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Speaker 2: if there had been a gust of wind, who knows?
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Speaker 2: But they included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred.
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Speaker 1: In the presence of children.
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Speaker 9: Now.
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Speaker 1: That is aggravating. A violent felony that occurs in the
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Speaker 1: presence of children. How are you going to get out
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Speaker 1: of that, Randolph Rice?
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Speaker 11: Bring a child in there that actually saw the murder.
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Speaker 11: They're going to have to prove that in court that
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Speaker 11: a child actually saw it, was affected by it, and
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Speaker 11: therefore that's the aggravating circumstance.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if they've got that right now.
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Speaker 11: You know, it just might be tough for.
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Speaker 4: Them on that count.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you're right. That's an element of proof. They will
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Speaker 2: have to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,
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Speaker 2: a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally
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Speaker 2: in court.
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Speaker 1: Now, what that was, was an arraignment. An arraignment where
13:01
Speaker 1: the defendant is.
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Speaker 2: Brought in because he cannot show any bars.
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Speaker 1: Over 72 hours without being.
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Speaker 2: Told what you're charged with. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: I believe this is going to be the trial judge
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Speaker 1: from here on out.
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Speaker 2: But we're also learning not just the charges, but how
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Speaker 2: the murder went down.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 9: At approximately 11.51 a.m., the suspect entered campus from the north.
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Speaker 10: He is seen.
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Speaker 9: Wearing a black shirt with an American flag in the center,
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Speaker 9: a dark baseball cap, and large sunglasses.
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Speaker 10: Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his.
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Speaker 9: Head down and rarely raises his head enough to get
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Speaker 9: a clear image of his face. As he proceeds across
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Speaker 9: the campus, he is seen walking with an unusual gait.
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Speaker 10: The suspect walks with very little bending in.
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Speaker 9: His right leg, consistent with a rifle being hidden in
13:56
Speaker 9: his pants.
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Speaker 2: Joining us now, Hermania Rodriguez. She's the chief U.S. reporter,
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Speaker 2: Daily Mail. Hermania, thank you for being with us. So
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Speaker 2: that explains, hey, let's see that TMZ video we have
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Speaker 2: of him walking, because I can see what the prosecution
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Speaker 2: is talking about, especially if they play this in promo.
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Speaker 1: Hermania, explain what they're talking about.
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Speaker 9: Right.
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Speaker 12: So officials gave us more insight about the hours before
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Speaker 12: this shooting last week. As we can see on the screen,
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Speaker 12: the suspect was seen arriving on campus about four hours
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Speaker 12: before the shooting. And there he is limping. Now, this
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Speaker 12: made the public wonder why this person was limping.
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Speaker 1: Do they have a limp?
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Speaker 12: Yesterday, we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle
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Speaker 12: that he used in one of his shootings. pant legs,
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Speaker 12: and that's why he's limping the way we see him
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Speaker 12: on screen.
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Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?
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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough joining us, director of Cold Case Foundation, former
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Speaker 2: homicide detective, star of The Interview Room on YouTube, who
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Speaker 2: has gone to this scene, to the home, to the
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Speaker 2: shooting scene, through the neighborhood.
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Speaker 1: You know, that's pretty bold.
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Speaker 2: Has he not heard of ring doorbell cams?
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Speaker 1: Because they catch him going door to door to door
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Speaker 1: to door.
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Speaker 2: They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him walking through
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Speaker 2: the neighborhood. And don't tell me, McDonough, he didn't case
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Speaker 2: this out like, where am I going to park?
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Speaker 1: How am I going to get away?
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Speaker 2: This has been at least, at least days in the making.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Nancy.
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Speaker 10: And what I've learned.
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Speaker 8: is he did have that vehicle up there and it
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Speaker 8: was parked about a mile away from the crime scene.
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Speaker 8: And he walked in to the crime scene to case
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Speaker 8: it out initially before the situation went down. And then later,
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Speaker 8: I've also learned that he turned his phone off for
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Speaker 8: a short period of time. and then turned it back
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Speaker 8: on after the homicide.
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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, speaking of walking through the neighborhood to his vehicle,
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Speaker 2: where did he park his muscle car?
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Speaker 8: The muscle car, Nancy, was parked approximately a mile away
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Speaker 8: at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
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Speaker 2: of a hit new podcast series, Body Bags with Joe
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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, really?
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Speaker 2: Did he pull a Koberger slash Morphew where they both
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Speaker 2: think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their phone off?
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Speaker 1: It's like my teen children. They're 17, believe it or not.
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Speaker 1: The phone is constantly on, even right down to 0.1%. Okay.
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Speaker 1: They will not turn it off even when they charge it.
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Speaker 2: See, that is a pattern or practice. So when you
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Speaker 2: just coincidentally turn your phone off. At the time of
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Speaker 2: the incident, I mean, think about it, Joe Scott. If
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Speaker 2: it weren't for the murder, the M.O., modus operandi method
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Speaker 2: of operation, would be laughable. Because you see the pings
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Speaker 2: leading up to a certain spot, and then, poof, the
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Speaker 2: phone goes off, the murder occurs, then, poof, the phone
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Speaker 2: goes back on, and you see the return back.
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Speaker 1: To your home nest, right?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, you're right. And welcome to the real world here
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Speaker 6: because these phones are the modern crime scene. Because it
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Speaker 6: seems like every case that we cover, you know, I
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Speaker 6: think most famously to this point, Koberger's case, you go
17:31
Speaker 6: to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken a lot,
17:34
Speaker 6: spoken about quite a bit in that particular case. We
17:38
Speaker 6: have established patterns. Why are you going to turn it
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Speaker 6: off at this particular time? And look, the case is
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Speaker 6: not proven simply based on that, but it's another element
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Speaker 6: that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.
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Speaker 1: This video from our friends over at The Independent. Speaking
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Speaker 1: of the rifle, listen.
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Speaker 9: The rifle, ammunition rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.
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Speaker 9: DNA consistent with defendant was found on the trigger, other
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Speaker 9: parts of the rifle, the fired cartridge casing, two of
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Speaker 9: the three unfired cartridges, and the towel.
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Speaker 10: Law enforcement was unable to immediately.
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Speaker 9: Locate the shooter, so they published photos of.
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Speaker 10: The shooter from the UVU.
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Speaker 9: Surveillance cameras and asked for the public's help to identify him.
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Speaker 10: Meanwhile, law enforcement.
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Speaker 9: Continue to try to identify the shooter through other means.
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Speaker 1: Joining us, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst out of the L.A. jurisdiction.
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Speaker 2: She is the author of Deal Breaker. You can see
18:43
Speaker 2: her now on Peacock. And she's at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Before you
18:49
Speaker 2: launch into the whole furry connection, I want to hear
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Speaker 2: your thoughts on a guy that comes from a loving home,
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Speaker 2: Very loving. We've heard, wow, he was afraid to tell
19:03
Speaker 2: his parents. He was dating another guy that was transitioning.
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Speaker 2: The family knew. I'm going to tell you about that
19:10
Speaker 2: in just a moment. So he comes from a very
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Speaker 2: loving home.
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Speaker 1: He was smart.
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Speaker 8: Dr.
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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top 1% of,
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Speaker 2: I believe it was his ACT exam, almost $ 40, 000 of
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Speaker 2: scholarship there. goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college,
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Speaker 2: comes out, pursues.
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Speaker 1: Oh, listen to this. $ 32, 000.
19:35
Speaker 13: This scholarship is available for four years or eight semesters.
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Speaker 1: I mean, they're supportive. They love him. My bottom line
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Speaker 1: here is what went wrong?
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Speaker 10: And I'm.
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Speaker 2: Not talking about his relationship with a guy.
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Speaker 1: That's irrelevant. Doesn't matter. Some people say right. Some people
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Speaker 1: say wrong. Don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is.
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Speaker 2: How do you go from a loving home where the
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Speaker 2: parents like you're the apple of their eye to becoming.
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Speaker 1: A psycho shooter.
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Speaker 4: Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we
20:14
Speaker 4: call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the $ 32, 000 scholarship, but
20:19
Speaker 4: then he drops out of college and studies to become
20:23
Speaker 4: an electrician. And what that tells me, if you were
20:26
Speaker 4: my patient, is that he cannot tolerate being with his peers.
20:30
Speaker 4: He doesn't feel intact or good enough about himself. He
20:35
Speaker 4: doesn't have a strong ego. So the risk factor for shooters,
20:39
Speaker 4: is that they often feel insulted by society. They feel
20:43
Speaker 4: that they are in a one-down position, that everybody's bullying them,
20:47
Speaker 4: everybody's acting like they're better than them, and they hold
20:50
Speaker 4: on to every little grudge until they have some kind
20:54
Speaker 4: of a profound loss in their life. And in this case,
20:57
Speaker 4: it may have been dropping out of college, and they
21:00
Speaker 4: become even angrier. And when they decide to shoot... They
21:04
Speaker 4: don't just walk through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on
21:07
Speaker 4: the top of a building. Have you noticed that about
21:09
Speaker 4: school shooters? I mean, one we covered many years ago
21:12
Speaker 4: was a guy who stood at the top of a
21:14
Speaker 4: staircase after having locked all the doors so the.
21:18
Speaker 14: Students couldn't get out.
21:19
Speaker 4: We call it like the fish in a barrel kind
21:22
Speaker 4: of MO of the shooting. So that's the reversing of
21:25
Speaker 4: the feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.
21:29
Speaker 4: He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets over.
21:33
Speaker 14: Children and families' heads.
21:35
Speaker 4: Talking about getting an erection, which is inscribed on the bullet, and.
21:40
Speaker 14: Feeling powerful for the first.
21:41
Speaker 1: Time in his life.
21:42
Speaker 4: So he's trying to reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless,
21:46
Speaker 4: and at the bottom of society.
21:47
Speaker 13: To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah State University.
21:51
Speaker 13: The value of this scholarship is approximately $ 32, 000. This scholarship
21:56
Speaker 13: is available for four years or eight semesters.
22:02
Speaker 9: He is seen wearing a black shirt with an American
22:04
Speaker 9: flag in the center, a dark baseball.
22:07
Speaker 10: Cap, and large sunglasses.
22:09
Speaker 1: He arrived on campus in different.
22:11
Speaker 15: Clothing, changed into what we see in those surveillance images,
22:15
Speaker 15: then changed back into the other outfit.
22:18
Speaker 1: He shoots, and then he's off the building.
22:20
Speaker 10: He is seen walking with an unusual gaze.
22:23
Speaker 1: Then we see him limping as he's walking through. He
22:26
Speaker 1: had a conscious objective.
22:28
Speaker 2: Formal charges read in open court, but I'm more interested.
22:32
Speaker 1: Those charges, in my mind, were predictable.
22:35
Speaker 2: Although the state did get creative in the aggravating circumstances
22:40
Speaker 2: that they charged. It's not just murder. It's aggravated murder.
22:45
Speaker 2: Murder with, quote, aggravating circumstances. And the significance of that,
22:49
Speaker 2: in order to seek the death penalty, you have to
22:52
Speaker 2: include murder. aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,
22:59
Speaker 2: there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice,
23:03
Speaker 2: joining us, veteran trial lawyer, they vary, but in every
23:07
Speaker 2: jurisdiction across our country, you have to have aggravating circumstances
23:11
Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty. In Coburger, it was mass murder.
23:14
Speaker 2: More than one body, it's mass murder.
23:18
Speaker 1: Here, explain the.
23:20
Speaker 2: Significance of them having Putting in the indictment, in the charges,
23:25
Speaker 2: the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved just like
23:28
Speaker 2: every element of the crime.
23:30
Speaker 6: Nancy, you're exactly right.
23:31
Speaker 11: You've got to prove every single element because what happens
23:34
Speaker 11: is the jurors are going to get a jury instruction
23:37
Speaker 11: at some point in time and it's going to have
23:39
Speaker 11: all these different elements and it's going to say, unless
23:42
Speaker 11: you find beyond a reasonable doubt that every single element
23:45
Speaker 11: has been met, then you can't find him guilty of
23:48
Speaker 11: that charge. And so there is the issue with Does
23:51
Speaker 11: the state meet these aggravating circumstances that gets them to
23:55
Speaker 11: the conviction that gets them to the death penalty?
23:58
Speaker 1: So, for instance, in every.
24:01
Speaker 2: prosecution, and we'll just go with murder since that's what
24:04
Speaker 2: we're talking about tonight. You have to prove who is
24:08
Speaker 2: the victim, that the indictment has the victim correct. You
24:10
Speaker 2: have to prove the jurisdiction. You have to prove malice aforethought.
24:15
Speaker 2: Even if it's malice that lasts for a moment, the
24:19
Speaker 2: twinkling of an instant, the blink of an eye qualifies
24:23
Speaker 2: as malice.
24:25
Speaker 1: To prove intent.
24:27
Speaker 2: But when you seek the death penalty, you have to
24:30
Speaker 2: include these aggravating circumstances and.
24:32
Speaker 1: Then they become an element of proof.
24:34
Speaker 2: You have to prove them each element beyond a reasonable doubt.
24:40
Speaker 2: Like you said earlier correctly, they may have to bring
24:43
Speaker 2: in a child to prove a child was in harm's way.
24:49
Speaker 2: So we'll see how the state's going to prove it.
24:57
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wife, now widow, Erica Kirk states,
25:08
Speaker 2: Today's decision, which comes nearly a year since Charlie was
25:11
Speaker 2: taken from us, marks an important step in our family's
25:15
Speaker 2: pursuit of justice for him. Her emotional statement, comes after
25:22
Speaker 2: Utah Judge Tony Graff ruled. Tyler Robinson will face trial
25:28
Speaker 2: for Charlie Kirk's assassination, with the death penalty still on
25:33
Speaker 2: the table. Erica states, Every step in this process carries
25:39
Speaker 2: the weight of all that Charlie's murder has taken from
25:42
Speaker 2: his family, especially his children, who will grow up without
25:47
Speaker 2: their father. That just feels like a kick to the teeth.
25:55
Speaker 2: Children growing up without their dad.
25:59
Speaker 1: Why?
26:00
Speaker 2: Because Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Assassinated, shot in front of
26:06
Speaker 2: thousands of people. Shot dead by a sniper. The state
26:12
Speaker 2: says that sniper is Tyler Robinson, and this is why.
26:15
Speaker 10: On September 11, 2025, the day after the shooting.
26:20
Speaker 9: Robinson's mother saw the photo of the shooter in the
26:23
Speaker 9: news and thought the shooter looked like her son. Robinson's
26:28
Speaker 9: mother called her son and asked him where he was.
26:36
Speaker 9: He said he was at home sick. And then he
26:39
Speaker 9: had also been at home, homesick on September 10th.
26:42
Speaker 2: Hold on just a moment. Hermonio Rodriguez joining us, Daily Mail.
26:47
Speaker 2: He said he was homesick? What, did he add the
26:49
Speaker 2: dog ate my homework?
26:51
Speaker 1: Homesick? That's weak.
26:52
Speaker 12: These were details that, I mean, were really harrowing if
26:55
Speaker 12: you imagine what these parents went through. As we just
26:58
Speaker 12: saw officials saying, apparently the day after the shooting, this
27:02
Speaker 12: mother was looks at the images released by the FBI
27:06
Speaker 12: as they were hunting this person down. She thinks it
27:08
Speaker 12: looks like her son calls him. He says he's at
27:11
Speaker 12: home sick for the second day in a row.
27:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what? Just got Morgan. What about it?
27:17
Speaker 2: If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball
27:20
Speaker 2: hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know
27:23
Speaker 2: it's them.
27:24
Speaker 6: Of course you would. Yeah, all of us would. There's
27:26
Speaker 6: no way that you're not going to recognize your child.
27:29
Speaker 6: I think the big thing here you know, probably for
27:33
Speaker 6: this mother, and this is more of a Dr. Bethany issue,
27:36
Speaker 6: but what do you do with that information? You know,
27:40
Speaker 6: how does it, because you've been with him his entire life. So,
27:44
Speaker 6: you know, again, she's going to call him up. She
27:46
Speaker 6: wants to confirm it. You know, do I believe my
27:48
Speaker 6: lying eyes? And it turns out that Her eyes were
27:51
Speaker 6: not lying in this case, Nancy.
27:53
Speaker 1: You know what? You're right.
27:54
Speaker 10: Dr.
27:54
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, how will this affect the parents going forward,
27:59
Speaker 2: knowing they turned their son in?
28:03
Speaker 4: You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on
28:05
Speaker 4: the break and that sound where he has $ 32, 000 scholarship.
28:10
Speaker 14: Do you notice that his affect is very flat? He
28:13
Speaker 14: doesn't seem excited.
28:15
Speaker 1: Yes, I did. So it's the mother that goes, woo, and.
28:18
Speaker 4: Then he kind of mimics the woo in a less
28:21
Speaker 4: sharp tone or less elevated tone. So I'm going to
28:24
Speaker 4: guess that this mother has a long history of trying
28:28
Speaker 4: to pump her son up to act normal in society.
28:33
Speaker 4: So when she sees this image of him, I don't
28:35
Speaker 4: think it's as much of a shock as.
28:37
Speaker 14: You and I might think.
28:39
Speaker 1: I would guess, you know how.
28:40
Speaker 4: Parents know their children, that they've always known something is
28:43
Speaker 4: wrong and they're always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
28:48
Speaker 14: She sees the image. It's confirmed. She calls dad.
28:52
Speaker 1: Reality meets internal fearfulness.
28:56
Speaker 4: And now she's the one who has to turn him in.
28:58
Speaker 4: Maternal guilt, Nancy. She's going to feel maternal guilt, not
29:02
Speaker 4: only that she turned him in, but that she gave
29:05
Speaker 4: birth to somebody who could have done this and she'll
29:07
Speaker 4: blame herself.
29:09
Speaker 14: For having raised him in the wrong way, although we.
29:11
Speaker 4: Know these kinds of disorders are very biologically based.
29:16
Speaker 14: It is not the parent's fault.
29:17
Speaker 2: Okay, I understood about 50% of what you said. Okay,
29:23
Speaker 2: I think what you said is the mother has likely
29:28
Speaker 2: spent her whole life trying to present to the world
29:32
Speaker 2: and to herself that her son is normal. And I
29:34
Speaker 2: don't mean that he's mentally insane because he clearly knew
29:37
Speaker 2: what he did was wrong. He planned it. He concealed it.
29:40
Speaker 2: Then he covered it up afterwards. That's evidence of guilty conscience.
29:43
Speaker 2: He knew it was wrong. But mom compensating, saying.
29:47
Speaker 1: Look, he won a scholarship. He's so smart. Look, this,
29:51
Speaker 1: he is a Boy Scout. Look, he sings in the choir.
29:54
Speaker 1: He's awesome. He cuts the grass. I love him. He's wonderful.
29:58
Speaker 2: All the while knowing something is off, that's a lifetime
30:03
Speaker 2: of compensating, Dr.
30:04
Speaker 1: Bethany.
30:05
Speaker 4: Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And obviously,
30:09
Speaker 4: I haven't met this guy. I don't know if he's
30:11
Speaker 4: a sociopath.
30:12
Speaker 1: But let's see.
30:13
Speaker 14: Theoretically, if he was, the mother would likely have noticed
30:17
Speaker 14: many things.
30:18
Speaker 1: Look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.
30:21
Speaker 1: I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows.
30:25
Speaker 1: And I always wonder, I.
30:26
Speaker 2: Look at people with like a six bedroom home worth
30:29
Speaker 2: over half a million dollars.
30:30
Speaker 1: They're all going to college. They have great jobs. What's
30:33
Speaker 1: not to be happy about? I I don't get it, Dr. Bethany.
30:38
Speaker 1: Maybe I've set the standard too low. But, you know,
30:40
Speaker 1: I got a family. I've got a home. I've got
30:43
Speaker 1: a job. For right now, we're all healthy. I'm on
30:47
Speaker 1: top of the world. I don't get it, Bethany.
30:51
Speaker 4: But we know that this guy was supremely unhappy. He
30:55
Speaker 4: was so unhappy. he couldn't even follow through with a scholarship.
30:59
Speaker 4: So unhappy that he can't even smile when he gets
31:03
Speaker 4: the scholarship. Nancy, this has nothing to do with his
31:06
Speaker 4: upbringing or his family. I can say that fairly.
31:08
Speaker 14: Confidently, even without knowing them.
31:10
Speaker 4: This type of disorder is what we call psycho-biological, meaning to.
31:16
Speaker 14: Break it down, there's something wrong with his brain.
31:19
Speaker 1: If you did a brain.
31:19
Speaker 14: Scan, you would probably see that there's a There's.
31:23
Speaker 4: A quieting in the part of the brain that's responsible
31:26
Speaker 4: for empathy.
31:27
Speaker 14: You might even see like a.
31:29
Speaker 4: Co-worker syndrome of bullying other people and wanting to be
31:33
Speaker 4: in a one-up position.
31:35
Speaker 1: No, no, no.
31:36
Speaker 2: I'm not going to let you go down the Aaron
31:39
Speaker 2: Hernandez route where they claim, the defense claims he murdered
31:44
Speaker 2: so many people because there was something wrong with his
31:47
Speaker 2: brain when he functioned. completely normally and excelled, was a multimillionaire,
31:54
Speaker 2: blew it.
31:56
Speaker 1: No, no, no. But Nancy, this.
32:00
Speaker 4: Guy was not functioning normally. He was on top of
32:03
Speaker 4: that building, sweating, depositing all this DNA. In the text,
32:08
Speaker 4: we read that he wants to take the secret with him.
32:12
Speaker 1: Till old age.
32:13
Speaker 14: So he actually thinks He's going to get away with this.
32:18
Speaker 4: That is something seriously wrong with him.
32:21
Speaker 1: Please get her back in the middle of the road
32:23
Speaker 1: and out of the weeds.
32:24
Speaker 2: All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room
32:27
Speaker 2: and they're not going to get caught.
32:29
Speaker 1: They all think that.
32:30
Speaker 8: Sure.
32:30
Speaker 1: That's not special.
32:32
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's why it's been proven the death penalty doesn't
32:34
Speaker 11: work because it's not a deterrent for people to not
32:37
Speaker 11: commit crimes because they don't think about, oh, I'm never
32:40
Speaker 11: going to get caught, so therefore I don't have to
32:41
Speaker 11: worry about getting shot at a firing squad.
32:44
Speaker 8: Mr.
32:44
Speaker 5: Robinson, I also wish to inform you of your rights
32:47
Speaker 5: against self-incrimination. Anything that you say in court today could
32:52
Speaker 5: be used against you, and we want to protect your
32:54
Speaker 5: constitutional rights.
32:57
Speaker 15: Mr.
32:57
Speaker 5: Robinson, at this time, you will remain in custody without bail.
33:02
Speaker 9: Robinson's mother expressed concern to her husband that the suspect
33:06
Speaker 9: shooter looked like Robinson. Robinson's father agreed. Robinson's mother explained
33:13
Speaker 9: that over the last year or so, Robinson had become
33:17
Speaker 9: more political and had started to lean more to the left.
33:22
Speaker 2: As if somehow being left wing means that you're going
33:26
Speaker 2: to gun somebody down at long range. I think the
33:31
Speaker 2: significance of the mom saying that. the alleged shooter had
33:36
Speaker 2: become more political and left-leaning was, it was a departure
33:40
Speaker 2: from the family values and what he had been his
33:43
Speaker 2: whole life up until that point. Now, we heard last
33:46
Speaker 2: night that a relative of the roommate blames the roommate
33:54
Speaker 2: for radicalizing the defendant. But the reality is, is it
34:00
Speaker 2: doesn't matter who persuaded him It doesn't matter. He did
34:06
Speaker 2: this shooting of his own volition. Many people have wondered,
34:10
Speaker 2: did his parents know of his relationship with his male roommate?
34:15
Speaker 1: Yes, they did. Listen.
34:17
Speaker 9: She stated that Robinson began to date his roommate, a
34:21
Speaker 9: biological male who was transitioning genders. This resulted in several
34:27
Speaker 9: discussions with family members.
34:30
Speaker 10: But especially between Robinson and his father. who have very
34:34
Speaker 10: different political views.
34:36
Speaker 9: In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie
34:40
Speaker 9: Kirk would be holding an event at UVU, which Robinson
34:46
Speaker 9: said was a stupid venue for the event. Robinson accused
34:52
Speaker 9: Kirk of spreading hate.
34:54
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how.
34:58
Speaker 2: A murder of a loving father of two, a husband,
35:02
Speaker 2: has turned into an argument about furries and trans. Sydney
35:09
Speaker 2: Sumner joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter.
35:12
Speaker 1: None of that matters. It doesn't matter.
35:16
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,
35:19
Speaker 2: if he was bi, if he was trans. None of
35:21
Speaker 2: that bears on the elements of proving a murder case.
35:25
Speaker 2: How did that take center stage, Sid?
35:28
Speaker 15: Well, some interesting bullet engravings. And we're learning now. Robinson
35:39
Speaker 15: was a furry, was part of one of these counterculture groups,
35:44
Speaker 15: but it seems like now, based on his text to
35:49
Speaker 15: his boyfriend, that Robinson was just making a giant joke.
35:55
Speaker 15: So his references to the furry group, Notices Bulge, UWU, uwu,
36:03
Speaker 15: It was just a joke, and it didn't mean anything.
36:06
Speaker 15: So that's why this took such a big part of this,
36:10
Speaker 15: was we thought that he was making some kind of
36:13
Speaker 15: statement with these bullet inscriptions.
36:15
Speaker 2: Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just
36:18
Speaker 2: a joke, Sydney Sumner?
36:19
Speaker 1: According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate.
36:22
Speaker 2: Sydney, the engravings that you are suggesting are just a
36:26
Speaker 2: joke were on the bullets.
36:30
Speaker 1: Used to murder... An innocent person. So I don't know
36:36
Speaker 1: who's claiming, you know, that's a joke.
36:39
Speaker 15: Listen.
36:40
Speaker 16: Remember how I was engraving bullets? The messages are mostly.
36:45
Speaker 1: A big meme.
36:46
Speaker 16: If I see notices bulge UWU on Fox News, I
36:51
Speaker 16: might have a stroke.
36:53
Speaker 14: All right.
36:53
Speaker 16: I'm going to have to leave it. That really sucks.
36:57
Speaker 16: Judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun does just fine.
37:01
Speaker 2: I don't know.
37:02
Speaker 16: I think that was a $ 2, 000 scope.
37:06
Speaker 14: Delete this exchange.
37:07
Speaker 2: So this is an exchange that the alleged shooter, the
37:12
Speaker 2: Kirk shooter, is having with the romantic partner as the
37:17
Speaker 2: roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving
37:23
Speaker 2: the bullets? Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Number one, what
37:27
Speaker 2: psycho engraves the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigi Mangione.
37:31
Speaker 2: But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was
37:36
Speaker 2: there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.
37:40
Speaker 1: Hello, accomplice, co-defendant.
37:42
Speaker 17: The problem, Nancy, they need that roommate in their case
37:46
Speaker 17: because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk killer,
37:51
Speaker 17: the Kirk shooter to those text messages.
37:53
Speaker 11: They need to keep that roommate, that love interest happy.
37:57
Speaker 11: They need to keep them close because that's going to
37:59
Speaker 11: be probably one of their first witnesses. So I hear
38:03
Speaker 11: what you're saying.
38:04
Speaker 1: Randolph, the two are not mutually exclusive.
38:09
Speaker 2: You can get his testimony and charge him as an
38:12
Speaker 2: accomplice to murder at the same time.
38:14
Speaker 1: In fact, let me guess, does your wife do all
38:18
Speaker 1: the cooking in the home?
38:20
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer? I would let
38:22
Speaker 2: the roommate have a few months behind bars to see
38:26
Speaker 2: if that jogs his recollection. So he can be a
38:31
Speaker 2: co-defendant and a witness at the same time.
38:35
Speaker 1: What about that thought? He can.
38:38
Speaker 11: But remember, you've got to put this in front of
38:40
Speaker 11: a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because
38:43
Speaker 11: if under your scenario, if you put him in jail
38:45
Speaker 11: and all of a sudden the defense attorney says, hey,
38:48
Speaker 11: you've been sitting in jail, the prosecutor put you there.
38:50
Speaker 11: So you feel like you're forced to tell this story.
38:52
Speaker 11: That doesn't look good in front of the jury.
38:56
Speaker 1: No, no, no.
38:58
Speaker 2: You can argue that till you're blue in the face,
39:02
Speaker 2: Randolph Rice. The fact that he would be arrested as
39:05
Speaker 2: a co-defendant, and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven
39:10
Speaker 2: guilty in a court of law. That said, of course
39:14
Speaker 2: a co-defendant goes to jail. That's not unique. That said,
39:19
Speaker 2: what do you make of that text? My original question
39:22
Speaker 2: before you went off with your pity party about the
39:24
Speaker 2: the roommate going to jail that shows me that he
39:28
Speaker 2: was there the roommate was there and would recall the
39:32
Speaker 2: defendant engraving bullets and don't you imagine you go hi
39:38
Speaker 2: tyler robinson why are you engraving bullets I would.
39:42
Speaker 1: So are you telling me now he had no idea
39:45
Speaker 1: what was happening?
39:45
Speaker 11: No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge
39:48
Speaker 11: of what was going on. And I think that there's
39:49
Speaker 11: a potential that the roommate gets charged. And you're exactly
39:52
Speaker 11: right on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.
39:55
Speaker 11: But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think
39:57
Speaker 11: you certainly have that ability to charge them with knowing
40:00
Speaker 11: what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes, can you
40:03
Speaker 11: charge them what happened after? And the text messages, that
40:07
Speaker 11: becomes another sort of sticky situation.
40:09
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,
40:12
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, to actually engrave a bullet. It sounds like
40:17
Speaker 2: trying to thread three needles at once. How do you
40:19
Speaker 2: engrave a bullet?
40:21
Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of ways of.
40:22
Speaker 8: Doing it, Nancy. You can use a handheld engraver. But
40:27
Speaker 8: let's also take a hard look at the messaging here.
40:31
Speaker 2: You just happen to have a handheld engraver in your
40:35
Speaker 2: tool pocket.
40:37
Speaker 1: Who would have a handheld engraver? You know what? Step
40:41
Speaker 1: back and punt. You have anything else for me?
40:43
Speaker 8: Yeah, you can buy that really simple at Home Depot,
40:48
Speaker 8: but also recognize that he says mostly engraving. the FN
40:53
Speaker 8: messages were mostly a big mean, i.e. there's another messaging
40:58
Speaker 8: in the showcasing or the cartridges.
41:01
Speaker 10: That were recovered.
41:03
Speaker 8: They only recovered, well, they didn't find any showcasing on
41:08
Speaker 8: the on the roof. So that means, A, it was
41:10
Speaker 8: either left in the bolt of the weapon and then
41:14
Speaker 8: the three in the magazine. So the fact that he
41:18
Speaker 8: was engraving a message on those cartridges tells us there's
41:24
Speaker 8: a bigger story.
41:31
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
41:37
Speaker 2: Erica Kirk goes on to state, we are grateful to
41:41
Speaker 2: all who have continued to pray for us, support us,
41:44
Speaker 2: and stand with us through a year of unimaginable grief.
41:51
Speaker 2: Erica was inside that Provo courtroom along with Charlie Kirk's parents,
41:56
Speaker 2: Robert and Catherine, as the heart-stopping decision was handed down.
42:03
Speaker 2: Erica reportedly buried her face in her hands as the
42:06
Speaker 2: court whether still images showing the shooting would be displayed.
42:15
Speaker 2: Tears streaming down her face as her lawyer addressed the
42:18
Speaker 2: court and said Charlie had dedicated his life to building community.
42:24
Speaker 2: Whether you agree with Kirk's beliefs or not, the cold-blooded
42:29
Speaker 2: assassination in front of thousands of people cannot go unpunished.
42:37
Speaker 2: This is what we know. If you don't happen to
42:40
Speaker 2: be one of those people that have a home hand engraver,
42:44
Speaker 2: then how would you do it with a knife?
42:48
Speaker 1: How do you do that? And it's got to be
42:49
Speaker 1: legible because these were easily read.
42:52
Speaker 6: Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact
42:54
Speaker 6: from this struck me from the beginning, you know, because
42:57
Speaker 6: we've had a couple, if you remember the Minneapolis shooting
43:01
Speaker 6: at mass, A few weeks ago, that individual wrote these
43:04
Speaker 6: kind of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that
43:09
Speaker 6: was with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,
43:12
Speaker 6: you have to get something that is, you know, I
43:15
Speaker 6: think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the morgue, we use
43:18
Speaker 6: what are referred to as diamond engravers to mark the
43:22
Speaker 6: bases of bullets. And this works on a metallic surface
43:26
Speaker 6: as well. You have electrical engravers. I don't know if
43:29
Speaker 6: he went that far. And the problem is.
43:31
Speaker 1: Oh, wait, wait. I was about to mock you about
43:33
Speaker 1: the diamond engraver. But wait a minute. Didn't he work as.
43:37
Speaker 2: An electrician or as an electrician's welder?
43:41
Speaker 10: Yeah.
43:41
Speaker 1: So he may have that tool. He very well might.
43:44
Speaker 6: Or he could have some semblance of that. That would
43:47
Speaker 6: be what you have to have is a metallic body
43:50
Speaker 6: that will mark on brass. Because this is brass. It's
43:53
Speaker 6: one of the softest metals that's out there. And people
43:57
Speaker 6: do engrave. You know, soldiers have been doing it for
43:59
Speaker 6: years and years. I wonder where you got this idea from.
44:02
Speaker 6: But you know what I'm more interested in, Nancy? Not
44:05
Speaker 6: just the engraving. I'm fascinated by the fact that this guy,
44:10
Speaker 6: according to the presser, not only left engravings to mark
44:14
Speaker 6: these rounds, but he also left his DNA on specific
44:18
Speaker 6: components within the weapon. even the trigger, Nancy, this guy's
44:23
Speaker 6: leaving signatures everywhere.
44:25
Speaker 2: When you say within the weapon, you're right. Where did
44:29
Speaker 2: authorities find DNA?
44:31
Speaker 1: And they found a lot of it.
44:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the
44:35
Speaker 6: trigger housing. And I say housing actually on the surface
44:40
Speaker 6: of the trigger. So that's probably going to be touch
44:42
Speaker 6: DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, This weapon has
44:46
Speaker 6: what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like
44:49
Speaker 6: the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have
44:52
Speaker 6: to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to
44:54
Speaker 6: take your thumb and press these rounds into that indwelling magazine.
45:01
Speaker 6: So any of those surfaces around there where you're trying
45:04
Speaker 6: to leverage this thing, even on the surface of the bolt,
45:07
Speaker 6: the handle of the bolt, any of these areas, you
45:10
Speaker 6: can deposit DNA there. And let's face it, he had
45:14
Speaker 6: this thing wrapped in a towel. He's got this thing
45:16
Speaker 6: in kind of a pristine condition he's left it in. So,
45:20
Speaker 6: you know, they had a field day when they got
45:21
Speaker 6: their hands on this thing in the lab.
45:23
Speaker 9: Police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological male who was involved
45:30
Speaker 9: in a romantic relationship with Robinson. The roommate told police
45:35
Speaker 9: that the roommate received.
45:36
Speaker 10: Messages from Mom and.
45:37
Speaker 9: Son about the shooting, and he did provide those messages
45:42
Speaker 9: to police.
45:44
Speaker 16: I can get close to it, but there's a squad
45:46
Speaker 16: car parked right by it. I think they already swept
45:49
Speaker 16: that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm
45:51
Speaker 16: wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon
45:54
Speaker 16: as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my
45:56
Speaker 16: old man would do if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle.
46:00
Speaker 16: I don't even know if it had a serial number,
46:03
Speaker 16: but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about prints.
46:07
Speaker 16: I had to leave it in a bush where I
46:09
Speaker 16: changed outfits. Didn't have the ability or time to bring
46:13
Speaker 16: it with. I might have to abandon it and hope
46:16
Speaker 16: they don't find Prince. How the f * * *
46:19
Speaker 16: will I explain losing it to my old man?
46:21
Speaker 1: I think he needs to get his priorities straight.
46:24
Speaker 2: He's worried about his dad being mad he lost the
46:27
Speaker 2: grandpa's gun.
46:31
Speaker 1: What about the death penalty? What is he thinking, Dr.
46:36
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall? And did you notice?
46:39
Speaker 2: This is a recreate of all of the texts the
46:43
Speaker 2: alleged shooter sends to the roommate.
46:45
Speaker 1: If you notice, roommate's not answering. He's like, what?
46:50
Speaker 2: But the guy's worried about losing grandpa's gun?
46:53
Speaker 4: Nancy, I'd love to talk about the idea that he
46:56
Speaker 4: thinks that what's on the bullets are a meme. A
47:00
Speaker 4: meme is a joke.
47:01
Speaker 14: So he's already minimizing... the.
47:04
Speaker 4: Severity of the alleged crime. A meme is something that
47:07
Speaker 4: goes viral and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy
47:12
Speaker 4: of being famous, like being some kind.
47:15
Speaker 1: Of a hero.
47:16
Speaker 4: The reference to the bulge, I take all of this seriously.
47:20
Speaker 4: None of it is a joke.
47:21
Speaker 14: The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.
47:27
Speaker 4: If he were my patient, I would ask him, what
47:30
Speaker 4: is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet
47:36
Speaker 4: over a crowd of family and children? Is it that
47:40
Speaker 4: sadism is exciting?
47:41
Speaker 14: Having power over people is exciting?
47:43
Speaker 1: I'd want to.
47:44
Speaker 4: Try to get to the root of that to understand
47:47
Speaker 4: this guy's mind.
47:48
Speaker 1: You know what?
47:49
Speaker 2: There's so much happening in this case. Remember the old
47:52
Speaker 2: guy at the get-go that claims he was responsible for
47:56
Speaker 2: the shooting?
47:57
Speaker 1: I did it, I did it, raising both hands.
47:59
Speaker 2: Now saying that he was just trying to give the
48:02
Speaker 2: real shooter a chance to get away? Okay, listen to
48:06
Speaker 2: what happens. The alleged cheater says about that.
48:09
Speaker 1: I thought they caught the person?
48:11
Speaker 2: Why?
48:11
Speaker 9: Yeah.
48:28
Speaker 16: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be
48:30
Speaker 16: negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,
48:34
Speaker 16: I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
48:37
Speaker 16: retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
48:39
Speaker 16: seen anything about them finding it.
48:41
Speaker 3: How long have you been planning this?
48:43
Speaker 1: A bit over a week, I believe. So much for
48:45
Speaker 1: the insanity defense.
48:46
Speaker 2: He had this thing planned out cold. But my point is,
48:51
Speaker 2: George Zinn, the one that threw investigators off at the beginning,
48:55
Speaker 2: claiming he did it, he was arrested. Now everybody's trashing
48:59
Speaker 2: the FBI director for arresting him. He said he did it. Well,
49:03
Speaker 2: there's a sad sack right there. Okay, bombshell, Hermania Rodriguez.
49:08
Speaker 2: He has, George Zanis, caught a few charges himself, hasn't he?
49:12
Speaker 12: Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.
49:15
Speaker 12: As you said, right after the shooting, this man was filmed.
49:18
Speaker 1: Saying, I shot him. I shot him.
49:20
Speaker 12: Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to
49:24
Speaker 12: give the actual shooter time.
49:26
Speaker 1: Time to get away.
49:27
Speaker 12: We have learned that he is someone who has previously
49:30
Speaker 12: caused trouble in the area and he's now charged with
49:33
Speaker 12: child pornography.
49:34
Speaker 2: That just trilled off your tongue. Did you just say
49:37
Speaker 2: child pornography?
49:39
Speaker 9: Correct.
49:40
Speaker 12: After he was taken into custody, right after this shooting,
49:45
Speaker 12: days later, he has been charged with this crime.
49:47
Speaker 2: So Mr.
49:48
Speaker 5: Robinson, you have a right to an attorney. If you
49:51
Speaker 5: cannot afford one, the court can appoint an attorney to
49:54
Speaker 5: represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of financial status
49:59
Speaker 5: and find that you are indigent. I'm provisionally appointing a
50:03
Speaker 5: Rule 8 qualified attorney to represent you on your case, Mr.
50:08
Speaker 10: Robinson.
50:09
Speaker 5: Along with their filing of their appearance of counsel, the
50:12
Speaker 5: assigned attorneys must file declarations with the court that outline
50:16
Speaker 5: their qualifications under Rule 8 and Rule 8C, I'm sorry,
50:21
Speaker 5: under Rule 8B and Rule 8C for a council appointment
50:25
Speaker 5: in a case where death may be a sentencing option.
50:29
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.