Latest / Karl and Crew / Following Jesus with Dr. Richard Blackaby & Standing Firm Against the Enemy with Dr. Mark Hitchcock

Transcript

Following Jesus with Dr. Richard Blackaby & Standing Firm Against the Enemy with Dr. Mark Hitchcock · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:06
  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
• 0:10
  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
• 0:16
  S1: the truth daily.
• 0:17
  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
• 0:21
  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul, there's no amount of gain
• 0:25
  S2: that would make it worth it.
• 0:26
  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
• 0:29
  S3: the life source, which is God.
• 0:32
  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
• 0:36
  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
• 0:39
  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 0:44
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 0:48
  S1: and crew.
• 0:49
  S2: Have you ever had an enemy?
• 0:52
  S3: Yeah.
• 0:53
  S2: Wow.
• 0:53
  S4: Good morning.
• 0:55
  S2: Good morning.
• 0:55
  S4: Welcome to the hour.
• 0:57
  S2: Have you ever had an enemy?
• 0:58
  S4: Oh, Oh, yeah.
• 1:00
  S2: What makes someone your enemy?
• 1:03
  S4: They don't want you to succeed in anything.
• 1:05
  S2: Okay.
• 1:05
  S3: Yeah. Uh, maybe. I don't know. It's okay. This is.
• 1:10
  S3: So I remember. This is my first enemy. I was
• 1:12
  S3: seven years old. Oh, okay. Uh, 6 or 7, I
• 1:15
  S3: don't remember, but when I was in first grade, uh,
• 1:18
  S3: I had a crush on a girl in my first
• 1:21
  S3: grade class. And there was another boy who was the
• 1:24
  S3: most popular boy in first grade. And, uh, there was
• 1:28
  S3: something we did in the class where. Where one boy
• 1:31
  S3: was gonna get to be the king, and one girl
• 1:33
  S3: was gonna get to be the queen. And the girl
• 1:35
  S3: I had a crush on was the queen. And me
• 1:38
  S3: and the other boy apparently tied for being king. Oh, wow.
• 1:42
  S3: And so. So it was like, I don't know, it
• 1:44
  S3: was some kind of weird celebration thing. And, and so,
• 1:47
  S3: but I was like in seventh or in first grade,
• 1:49
  S3: it was like the most annoying thing to me that
• 1:52
  S3: he also got to be the. I was like, no,
• 1:55
  S3: I was like, this is wrong. And I was like,
• 1:57
  S3: you're my rival forever now. And it's like, I mean,
• 2:01
  S3: about five minutes later, everything was fine. But still. Yeah,
• 2:04
  S3: that was my first my first little rival that I
• 2:07
  S3: had in life.
• 2:08
  S2: So you're you. He became an enemy because you were
• 2:12
  S2: in pursuit of the same person.
• 2:15
  S3: Yeah.
• 2:16
  S2: Okay. And only in your in your first grade mind.
• 2:20
  S3: Yeah. It was the most important thing in my in
• 2:22
  S3: my six.
• 2:23
  S2: Year old, while she's not caring about either one of you, but.
• 2:25
  S3: Not not one bit. Not one bit.
• 2:29
  S2: You know, we showed up for, um, my son plays
• 2:32
  S2: in a Friday night basketball league and we and we
• 2:34
  S2: showed up for a game. And, you know, the basketball community,
• 2:38
  S2: like most sports tends to be pretty small. So he sees,
• 2:42
  S2: you know, some kids that he knows. And he sees
• 2:44
  S2: one kid who's a, you know, a good friend of his.
• 2:47
  S2: And so he walks in and he, the kid doesn't
• 2:50
  S2: say hi to him. I thought, oh, okay. You know,
• 2:53
  S2: maybe he didn't see him. So then we go to,
• 2:58
  S2: you know, warm ups and then then the game starts.
• 3:01
  S2: And then turns out the kid who didn't say hi
• 3:04
  S2: to him is the kid on the other team. So
• 3:07
  S2: they're on separate teams for this game. Okay. And so
• 3:11
  S2: my son, who is ever the the people guy.
• 3:15
  S4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:16
  S2: You know, they're they're lining up and he goes up
• 3:19
  S2: to his buddy and he's like, hey man, what's up?
• 3:22
  S2: And the kids like probably with, you know, maybe some
• 3:26
  S2: colorful language. Don't talk to me. Wow. And so the
• 3:31
  S2: thing is, they're good, good friends.
• 3:33
  S3: Yeah.
• 3:34
  S2: Yeah. And so.
• 3:35
  S3: But it was only because they were on different teams.
• 3:37
  S2: But on this day, no, you can't we can't speak
• 3:40
  S2: to each other before the game.
• 3:42
  S3: That's very like Michael Jordan esque looking totally looking for
• 3:46
  S3: looking for just that one little thing.
• 3:48
  S2: Like this is on this day.
• 3:50
  S3: We're enemies.
• 3:51
  S2: We are enemies. After the game. DAP it up. All
• 3:55
  S2: is good.
• 3:56
  S3: That's so.
• 3:56
  S2: Funny. But before the game. Oh no, not when we're
• 3:59
  S2: playing against each other. Because this eighth grade Friday night
• 4:04
  S2: pickup basketball game.
• 4:06
  S3: Most important thing.
• 4:07
  S2: War. It's funny. The things that make someone an enemy
• 4:15
  S2: to us. Sometimes it's very situational. If you do a
• 4:19
  S2: lot of driving in a big city, you develop enemies
• 4:22
  S2: on the expressway.
• 4:23
  S3: I've got about a million that I've never. I've never
• 4:26
  S3: even seen their face before.
• 4:27
  S2: That guy who's trying to cut you off, or who
• 4:29
  S2: sped up on the side instead of doing the the.
• 4:33
  S3: Shoulder merge.
• 4:34
  S2: The shoulder driver, that person at the grocery store who
• 4:38
  S2: dares to look at you wrong.
• 4:40
  S4: He's got 13 items in a 12 item.
• 4:43
  S2: I mean, there's so many things that we talked a
• 4:46
  S2: lot about anger yesterday, but we develop these sort of grievances.
• 4:53
  S2: where people quickly become enemies, which can distract us from
• 4:58
  S2: the fact that really, people are not our enemy. It
• 5:06
  S2: goes deeper than that, right? We often get distracted from
• 5:10
  S2: the actual war because we're so worried about people more
• 5:14
  S2: coming up.
• 5:15
  S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl
• 5:19
  S1: and crew doctor Mark Hitchcock. It's got quite a background here,
• 5:24
  S1: doesn't he, Ali?
• 5:25
  S2: He does. Born and raised in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, he
• 5:28
  S2: serves as senior pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma.
• 5:32
  S2: He's authored over 30 books related to end time Bible
• 5:35
  S2: prophecy that have sold over a million copies.
• 5:39
  S5: Yeah. And he's with us right now. Good morning, doctor
• 5:42
  S5: Mark Hitchcock. Good to have you with us today.
• 5:45
  S6: Well good morning to you guys. Thank you for having me,
• 5:47
  S6: I appreciate it.
• 5:48
  S5: If you look at the very first gospel that was written,
• 5:51
  S5: the gospel of Mark, somewhere between 6066 A.D., you get
• 5:56
  S5: into this incredible narrative, the story about the gospel, and
• 5:59
  S5: it talks about John preparing the way, and then Jesus
• 6:02
  S5: himself coming and baptizing in the spirit, and then immediately whiplash.
• 6:07
  S5: We see the spirit. Verse 12 immediately drove him Jesus
• 6:11
  S5: into the wilderness, and he was in the wilderness 40
• 6:14
  S5: days being tempted by Satan, and he was with wild
• 6:17
  S5: animals in the angels were ministering to him. It's a
• 6:20
  S5: shorter version of what Matthew unpacks a little bit more of.
• 6:24
  S5: The war with demonic realm is real. Mark, let's just
• 6:28
  S5: start there. It's real, isn't it?
• 6:30
  S6: Well, no, it's certainly real. You know, Satan has mentioned
• 6:34
  S6: 19 and 19 of the 27 books of the New Testament. Um,
• 6:39
  S6: Jesus himself mentions Satan 25 times. And so Satan is real. Uh,
• 6:45
  S6: demons are real. They're not just some force. They're actually beings.
• 6:49
  S6: They're beings that exist spirit beings. And it's a real war.
• 6:53
  S6: It's fought on three fronts. We kind of usually just
• 6:56
  S6: think of the, you know, the spiritual battle against Satan
• 6:59
  S6: and his demonic host. But you're right. We have the flesh,
• 7:03
  S6: which is, I call it the traitor within lives inside
• 7:06
  S6: of us. It's the kind of the nature of the
• 7:08
  S6: fallen nature of the old, old man. And then we
• 7:11
  S6: have this world system around us. You know, we talk
• 7:13
  S6: about the world of politics or the world of sports. Well,
• 7:16
  S6: there's a a world system, and Satan uses the flesh
• 7:20
  S6: and he uses the world as well in this battle.
• 7:23
  S6: And basically what he's trying to do is he's trying
• 7:26
  S6: to keep lost people from putting their faith in Jesus.
• 7:29
  S6: And once we become a believer and he wants to
• 7:31
  S6: frustrate our life, he wants to defeat us so that
• 7:35
  S6: we can't be effective in our life and witness for
• 7:37
  S6: Jesus Christ.
• 7:38
  S2: Doctor Mark Hitchcock, our guest this morning. You know, I'm
• 7:41
  S2: curious about your background. You graduated from law school. You
• 7:43
  S2: worked for a judge at the Oklahoma Court of Criminal
• 7:46
  S2: Appeals for four years. How did you go from working
• 7:50
  S2: in that realm to this being your kind of specialty?
• 7:54
  S6: Well, when I was a lawyer and attorney, I was
• 7:57
  S6: teaching Bible classes and doing some different things, and it
• 7:59
  S6: just became clear that's what God wanted me to do
• 8:01
  S6: full time. I always joke with my wife, she married
• 8:04
  S6: a lawyer and ended up with a preacher. So I
• 8:06
  S6: kind of did the old bait and switch on her
• 8:08
  S6: a little bit. But, you know, I was down to
• 8:11
  S6: Dallas Seminary and never, never looked back since then and
• 8:15
  S6: got my master's degree down there, my master of theology,
• 8:18
  S6: and then went back and got my PhD and have
• 8:21
  S6: the privilege to teach there now as well. So I
• 8:23
  S6: pastored the church in Oklahoma and teach at Dallas Seminary,
• 8:26
  S6: but it was just a clear calling of God upon
• 8:29
  S6: my life. I've never doubted it or have any wavered
• 8:32
  S6: at all in that since that took place. So, um,
• 8:35
  S6: but it's been a great blessing. I've been at the
• 8:37
  S6: church I'm at now at Faith Bible Church for 34 years.
• 8:40
  S5: Tremendous. We're tackling the issue of demonization. What does that mean?
• 8:46
  S5: What authority do demons have? How do I fight this battle?
• 8:51
  S6: So the key thing in life is for us to
• 8:53
  S6: be submitting to the Lord. The focus of the life
• 8:56
  S6: of a believer is not to be fighting the devil,
• 8:58
  S6: but it's to be submitting to God. And if we
• 9:00
  S6: submit to God, then we can resist the devil. And
• 9:04
  S6: as far as you know, that Satan doesn't afflict the righteous.
• 9:07
  S6: When we look at job, I mean the very first
• 9:09
  S6: book probably written in the Bible, it says that job
• 9:12
  S6: was the most righteous man on the earth. And of course,
• 9:15
  S6: you know, Satan is unleashed upon him and, you know,
• 9:18
  S6: brings him as much misery as he ever has any
• 9:21
  S6: other person. So I would argue really many times, maybe
• 9:25
  S6: the more righteous you are, the more you are afflicted,
• 9:28
  S6: because Satan is going to go after people that have
• 9:31
  S6: more influence to try to bring them down. I think
• 9:33
  S6: a lot of Christians, really their own flesh in the
• 9:35
  S6: world is probably, you know, keeping them occupied pretty well
• 9:39
  S6: that aren't really following the Lord very much. And so
• 9:42
  S6: I think Satan and demons are looking for people that
• 9:44
  S6: are righteous, that are doing great things for God that
• 9:47
  S6: they can bring down. But it's very important to remember
• 9:50
  S6: that we are to resist the devil. That's what Jesus did.
• 9:52
  S6: You know he quoted the Bible three times. Three times
• 9:55
  S6: he says, it is written, it is written. It's written
• 9:57
  S6: by the way he quoted the book of Deuteronomy three
• 9:59
  S6: times as well. So but we're to submit ourselves to
• 10:03
  S6: God first, then we resist the devil. And the Bible
• 10:05
  S6: says that he will flee from us, and so we
• 10:08
  S6: resist him in the Lord and God's Word. And we
• 10:11
  S6: can have victory in this battle. But it all starts
• 10:13
  S6: with submitting ourselves daily to God. It's the positive before
• 10:16
  S6: the negative.
• 10:17
  S5: Clearly, Mark we find in Ephesians written to the church,
• 10:21
  S5: Paul saying, be angry and do not sin. Do not
• 10:24
  S5: let the sun go down on your anger and give
• 10:27
  S5: no opportunity to the devil. That term opportunity is really
• 10:32
  S5: foothold or toehold almost a mountain climbers term. What does
• 10:36
  S5: it mean to give Satan a toehold if you're born again?
• 10:41
  S5: A lot of people have questions about this. What do
• 10:43
  S5: you say, Mark?
• 10:44
  S6: Well, you know, when we when we sin in our lives,
• 10:46
  S6: we open up our lives to the enemy to get
• 10:49
  S6: a beachhead, you know, into our life. I think in
• 10:52
  S6: that passage in Ephesians, he's just said, talked about anger.
• 10:55
  S6: You know, don't be angry. Don't let the sun go
• 10:57
  S6: down on your wrath. Don't give the devil an opportunity.
• 11:00
  S6: I think in that context, it's anger. You know, a
• 11:02
  S6: lot of people, when they're if they're if they're living
• 11:04
  S6: an angry life, they're, you know, upset all the time,
• 11:08
  S6: you know, yelling, shouting, just filled with anger about all
• 11:11
  S6: kinds of things. There's a lot of a lot to
• 11:13
  S6: get angry about in our world today. And certainly there's
• 11:15
  S6: a righteous anger about sin and things that are happening
• 11:18
  S6: in our world. But it's very easy for even righteous
• 11:21
  S6: anger to, you know, to kind of bleed over into
• 11:23
  S6: become unrighteous anger at some point in time. So, you know,
• 11:26
  S6: an angry person, it's telling us in that passage is
• 11:29
  S6: giving kind of a portal to the enemy down into
• 11:32
  S6: their heart and their life for him to, to be
• 11:34
  S6: able to gain more control over their life. And once
• 11:37
  S6: you give, you know, an enemy, a beachhead or a
• 11:39
  S6: foothold in your life, then obviously they're going to going
• 11:42
  S6: to go out from there. I don't think anger is
• 11:44
  S6: the only sin that gives the enemy a foothold. I
• 11:47
  S6: think there are probably many other sins that do as well.
• 11:49
  S6: But in that context, that's what's being mentioned there. So,
• 11:52
  S6: you know, that's that's something for everybody to think about
• 11:54
  S6: who's listening. If you've got an anger problem, you're giving
• 11:57
  S6: the enemy a foothold into your life every day. And
• 11:59
  S6: that's a a sad and tragic thing to be happening
• 12:02
  S6: in your spiritual life.
• 12:03
  S5: Mark. I want to give some hope. I guess the
• 12:05
  S5: flip side to this is First John one nine. If
• 12:08
  S5: you confess your sins, he is right. He is faithful
• 12:10
  S5: and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
• 12:13
  S5: us of all unrighteousness. It seems to me that what
• 12:17
  S5: we find in Scripture over and over again is get
• 12:19
  S5: honest with God, get honest with yourself and that agreement
• 12:23
  S5: with God. Let's just take anger. I've got anger in
• 12:26
  S5: my life. I do not want to give a toe
• 12:29
  S5: hold to Satan. God, I admit this to you. I
• 12:33
  S5: agree with you, God, I repent of it. We don't
• 12:37
  S5: have to worry at that point, do we? If we
• 12:39
  S5: mean that sincerely, we are set free?
• 12:42
  S6: That's right. I mean, it's that simple. You're right. You
• 12:44
  S6: go to God and we agree with him. That's what
• 12:46
  S6: the word means to confess, to say the same thing.
• 12:49
  S6: So we say about our sin, the same thing God
• 12:51
  S6: says about our sin is wrong. Uh, that it's an
• 12:54
  S6: affront to God, that it separates us and our fellowship
• 12:57
  S6: with the Lord. And that when you do that, it
• 12:59
  S6: says he is faithful and he's just to forgive our
• 13:02
  S6: sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And that
• 13:05
  S6: when we do that, we can have a clean slate
• 13:07
  S6: with the Lord. Our fellowship with God is restored, and
• 13:09
  S6: we never lose our relationship with the Lord. As believers,
• 13:12
  S6: when we sin. But we can. We can break that
• 13:14
  S6: fellowship with him. That fellowship is restored and that we can.
• 13:18
  S6: We can go forward in life, in power, and in
• 13:21
  S6: the way that God wants us to. But yeah, we
• 13:23
  S6: have to be honest about our sin problems that we
• 13:25
  S6: have and that we have to avail ourselves of all
• 13:28
  S6: the resources God has given us. You mentioned Ephesians six.
• 13:31
  S6: God's given us a whole, a whole array of spiritual
• 13:34
  S6: resources to come against the enemy and not allow the
• 13:38
  S6: enemy to have power and control over our lives.
• 13:41
  S5: Amen. I love that, Mark. Uh. Let's go. After demonized,
• 13:45
  S5: the word has been wrongly interpreted as possession or even oppression.
• 13:50
  S5: It really doesn't mean either of those, Mark, does it?
• 13:53
  S6: No, it just means to be under the influence of,
• 13:56
  S6: you know, be under the influence of a demonic spirit.
• 13:59
  S6: But there is a there is an idea, obviously, of
• 14:01
  S6: demon possession. That's the term we use because, you know, Jesus,
• 14:05
  S6: somebody says that the demon is in a person and
• 14:07
  S6: Jesus will tell the demon to come out of the person.
• 14:10
  S6: So clearly it's residing inside the person. Um, so I
• 14:14
  S6: think it's, I mean, you know, it's just a term
• 14:15
  S6: that we use, I think demon possession. We need to
• 14:18
  S6: make sure we understand what it means. But I don't
• 14:21
  S6: think that it's an incorrect statement to use because clearly
• 14:24
  S6: the person's being possessed, they're being controlled, they're being indwelled
• 14:28
  S6: really by a demonic spirit, someone who's under full demonic
• 14:31
  S6: control in that way. But obviously, well, I don't think
• 14:35
  S6: a believer can be demon possessed in that sense, but
• 14:37
  S6: certainly demonic spirits are oppressing believers all the time, coming
• 14:41
  S6: against us, trying to thwart and frustrate our activities for
• 14:46
  S6: the Lord, trying to discourage us, um, disappoint us. We
• 14:50
  S6: talk to God, we pray to him. And that he's,
• 14:53
  S6: he's the one that we talk to in the spiritual realm.
• 14:56
  S5: I gotta tell you, we've got a resource for you.
• 14:59
  S5: Mark has written on this whole issue of demonic attack
• 15:02
  S5: and how to deal with it. Let's give that link.
• 15:04
  S2: Yeah. 101 Answers to Questions about Satan, demons, and Spiritual Warfare.
• 15:08
  S2: Just text faith to 800 555 7898. Text faith to
• 15:14
  S2: 805 557898.
• 15:18
  S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
• 15:21
  S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl
• 15:26
  S1: and crew on Moody Radio.
• 15:28
  S2: Pride can be the boasting. I'm the best. I'm at
• 15:33
  S2: the top of the heat. But pride sometimes demand its
• 15:37
  S2: own way, pushes its way to the front of the line.
• 15:42
  S2: I want to tell you a story that I am
• 15:44
  S2: not proud of. It was a moment that quickly brought
• 15:47
  S2: me a great deal of shame. So back story. For
• 15:54
  S2: about close to 15 years, my husband played professional basketball.
• 15:59
  S2: And so I would have been to more basketball games
• 16:04
  S2: than you could possibly count. Over the course.
• 16:09
  S3: I'm sure you have.
• 16:10
  S2: Over the course of his college career and then a
• 16:13
  S2: professional career. And so I share that only because it's
• 16:16
  S2: important to understand the story. So when you are the
• 16:19
  S2: wife of a basketball player, you're a family of a
• 16:21
  S2: professional athlete. You don't typically enter the arena the same
• 16:27
  S2: way that everybody else does.
• 16:28
  S3: Correct you the back end.
• 16:30
  S2: So there's usually there's a back entrance. There's a, you know,
• 16:33
  S2: there's a family door. You usually bypass a lot of the, the,
• 16:39
  S2: the lines.
• 16:40
  S3: Make sense. Makes sense.
• 16:41
  S2: Yeah. There's a seating area that's kind of set off to.
• 16:45
  S2: And this is true of pretty much every team he's
• 16:47
  S2: ever been on. Yeah. And so this particular game this
• 16:51
  S2: was in Europe by the way. This was when he
• 16:53
  S2: was playing in Europe. And so I was running late
• 16:57
  S2: or something prevented me from doing my normal pre-game routine.
• 17:03
  S2: And so that particular day I couldn't get into where
• 17:09
  S2: I needed to get into. And I was already running late.
• 17:12
  S2: So already not at my like best. Sure.
• 17:17
  S4: I get.
• 17:17
  S2: It. And so the only way for me to get
• 17:21
  S2: into the game, which was now getting pretty close to
• 17:23
  S2: start time and I'm running really late, was to go
• 17:26
  S2: into the main entrance.
• 17:28
  S3: Stand in line.
• 17:29
  S2: So here's the thing, guys. And I'm not I'm not
• 17:33
  S2: proud of this. So I get in that door and
• 17:38
  S2: I see this long line of people with their tickets
• 17:42
  S2: out and I'm thinking, I'm not waiting in this line. Well,
• 17:47
  S2: I know, I know. Don't give me, don't give me
• 17:51
  S2: a pass. Don't give me a pass.
• 17:53
  S4: I get it.
• 17:54
  S3: I'd give.
• 17:54
  S2: You. So I, you know, kind of very politely like,
• 17:57
  S2: excuse me, excuse me. Coming through. Don't mind.
• 18:00
  S3: Important person.
• 18:02
  S2: Not. No, no, I didn't say anything.
• 18:04
  S3: I know you didn't say anything.
• 18:06
  S2: But in my mind, I thought they're okay. They're coming
• 18:12
  S2: to see my husband play. Like I'm not waiting in line.
• 18:16
  S2: Like I, I, I shouldn't have to wait in line. Yeah.
• 18:19
  S2: And so I kind of like, I make my way
• 18:21
  S2: up to the front and I'm like, I'm, you know, I, I,
• 18:24
  S2: I need to get in, I need to get in
• 18:25
  S2: the game. I'm, I'm, and I, I wasn't rude to anybody.
• 18:31
  S3: Oh, sure.
• 18:32
  S2: I was as polite as one can be as you
• 18:36
  S2: cut the line and make everybody else wait as you
• 18:39
  S2: go to the front and go in because you're special. Oh,
• 18:45
  S2: it took about 30s after I got into the game
• 18:51
  S2: that I felt awful.
• 18:55
  S3: After it's all over.
• 18:57
  S2: I felt horrible because I thought, what did I just do? Uh, I,
• 19:06
  S2: I thought to myself, I never want to be one
• 19:10
  S2: of those people that thinks they're too important to wait
• 19:15
  S2: like everybody else to. And so was it the end
• 19:20
  S2: of the world? No, but it just it revealed something
• 19:27
  S2: in me that day.
• 19:28
  S3: Yeah, it's a small moment.
• 19:29
  S2: It was a small moment that.
• 19:31
  S4: I.
• 19:32
  S2: Still remember. And I'm telling you, this has probably been
• 19:35
  S2: 15 years.
• 19:36
  S3: Sure.
• 19:37
  S2: But I haven't forgotten it.
• 19:38
  S3: There are little things like that because.
• 19:41
  S2: There was something in me that felt like I shouldn't
• 19:44
  S2: have to wait like everybody else because of some position
• 19:49
  S2: that I felt like in that moment made me different. Yeah,
• 19:53
  S2: Pride's a funny thing because you can you can think
• 19:57
  S2: that you've got certain things handled.
• 20:01
  S3: Yeah. Or that you, you should have special treatment in
• 20:05
  S3: certain areas because of what you do or who you are.
• 20:07
  S2: No, you can think that you have that. You don't
• 20:10
  S2: struggle with pride.
• 20:11
  S3: Oh well yeah, that's very true.
• 20:13
  S2: That's a and it's easy to see in other people.
• 20:16
  S3: Yes.
• 20:17
  S2: And sometimes harder to see in yourself.
• 20:19
  S3: Well, we make excuses for ourselves.
• 20:21
  S2: Right. And so I'm sure you it's easy to look
• 20:24
  S2: at that person at your job who you think is
• 20:28
  S2: a a bragger, you know? Sure, it's easy to have
• 20:32
  S2: a conversation and hear people name drop and and you
• 20:35
  S2: kind of.
• 20:37
  S3: Uh, he's doing it again, right?
• 20:38
  S2: It's a very off putting quality when it's, when it's
• 20:41
  S2: when pride is loud in people.
• 20:43
  S3: Mhm.
• 20:43
  S2: The person who wants to tell you about the new
• 20:45
  S2: things that they have, and you know, how much money
• 20:49
  S2: that they make or the trips that they're taking. We
• 20:52
  S2: all know people like that.
• 20:55
  S3: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:56
  S2: But are you on the lookout for pride in the
• 20:58
  S2: ways that are maybe quieter?
• 21:01
  S3: Maybe you don't.
• 21:02
  S2: Boast and brag. Maybe you feel like I don't have
• 21:06
  S2: much to boast or brag about. But sometimes even just
• 21:09
  S2: an incredible focus on self, even your own challenges and problems.
• 21:15
  S2: There can even be pride in that.
• 21:17
  S3: Yeah, I my day is the hardest day out of
• 21:21
  S3: anybody I know. Yeah. You know, I, I work the most.
• 21:24
  S3: I'm the most tired. Yeah, those can absolutely be moments
• 21:27
  S3: of pride.
• 21:28
  S2: So I want to take you to a passage in Mark.
• 21:31
  S2: It's this is a similar story in a couple of
• 21:34
  S2: the Gospels, but this particular one in Mark nine, I'm
• 21:37
  S2: going to have Jonathan. I'm going to have you read
• 21:39
  S2: the verses first and then some interesting context that I
• 21:43
  S2: hadn't really noticed until I looked at it yesterday. Go ahead.
• 21:46
  S3: Okay. This is starting in verse 33 of Mark nine.
• 21:50
  S3: And they came to Capernaum, and when he, Jesus, was
• 21:53
  S3: in the house, he asked them, the disciples, what were
• 21:56
  S3: you discussing on the way? But they kept silent, for
• 22:00
  S3: on the way they had argued with one another about
• 22:02
  S3: who was the greatest. And he sat down and called
• 22:05
  S3: the 12. And he said to them, if anyone would
• 22:07
  S3: be first, he must be last of all and servant
• 22:12
  S3: of all. And he took a child and put him
• 22:14
  S3: in the midst of them. And taking him in his arms,
• 22:17
  S3: he said to them, whoever receives one such child in
• 22:20
  S3: my name receives me, and whoever receives me receives not me,
• 22:24
  S3: but him who sent me.
• 22:26
  S2: So this is hilarious to me for a couple reasons.
• 22:29
  S2: So I'm just really picture this. So they had been
• 22:33
  S2: doing ministry and there's a conversation that happens that clearly
• 22:38
  S2: Jesus knows everything.
• 22:39
  S3: Of course they didn't answer and he's.
• 22:41
  S2: Still asking because he's like, huh, I'm really curious. I
• 22:44
  S2: saw you guys were talking about something. What were you
• 22:46
  S2: talking about?
• 22:46
  S3: Seemed like a heated discussion.
• 22:48
  S2: So he just casually says, so what were you what
• 22:52
  S2: were you guys discussing? Yeah. And everybody gets real quiet.
• 22:56
  S4: Yeah. That's typical.
• 22:59
  S2: Do we really want to tell him what we were
• 23:01
  S2: talking about?
• 23:02
  S3: I plead the fifth.
• 23:03
  S2: And then they have to admit that what they were
• 23:06
  S2: discussing on the way was who's the greatest? We're we're
• 23:11
  S2: hanging with Jesus. We're disciples. We're kind of set apart
• 23:17
  S2: from other people. Yeah. And he quickly wants to show them.
• 23:21
  S2: If you think that this is about some pursuit of
• 23:23
  S2: fame and power and position, you have missed it all
• 23:26
  S2: the way. But if you back up, there's a couple
• 23:30
  S2: of things that I think are interesting leading up to this.
• 23:33
  S2: So Mark nine starts with in verse two, the Transfiguration,
• 23:38
  S2: where Jesus, he takes Peter, James and John, and they
• 23:42
  S2: go up to a mountaintop for a little bit, and
• 23:47
  S2: they experience those three disciples, experience something so incredible that
• 23:53
  S2: they can't even really speak about it.
• 23:55
  S3: Yeah. I mean, it's a it's an experience no one
• 23:58
  S3: else ever had or saw Jesus in that way a moment.
• 24:02
  S2: But certainly the other disciples would have known that.
• 24:05
  S3: Something happened up there.
• 24:06
  S2: They got to go up there on the mountain with
• 24:08
  S2: Jesus for a little bit.
• 24:09
  S3: I mean, you better you better think that the other
• 24:12
  S3: nine were like, why do they get to go? I'd
• 24:14
  S3: like to go.
• 24:16
  S2: And to add to that, as they come down from
• 24:20
  S2: the mountain, they come upon the disciples, the rest of
• 24:23
  S2: the disciples, who are in a bit of an argument
• 24:26
  S2: with the scribes. And so Jesus, as he's asking, trying to,
• 24:30
  S2: you know, again, he knows all, but he asks questions
• 24:33
  S2: to reveal things to everybody else. He's sorting out what's
• 24:37
  S2: going on, why there's an argument. There's people crowded around
• 24:40
  S2: and turns out there's a guy who speaks up who
• 24:43
  S2: has brought his son, who has a spirit, a demonic
• 24:47
  S2: spirit that he had asked the disciples to cast out.
• 24:53
  S2: And then it says in verse 18, he says, they
• 24:56
  S2: were not able.
• 24:59
  S3: Mhm.
• 25:00
  S2: And so Jesus, he rebukes this faithless generation. He says,
• 25:05
  S2: how long am I to be with you? How long
• 25:07
  S2: am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.
• 25:10
  S2: And then Jesus, of course, performs a the ultimate healing.
• 25:15
  S2: And the disciples later, Privately they ask, why could we
• 25:20
  S2: not cast it out? And he said to them, this
• 25:22
  S2: kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer. That's
• 25:27
  S2: what that's that conversation of who's the greatest comes on
• 25:32
  S2: the heels of that. And I have to wonder what
• 25:35
  S2: their kind of emotional state is like, as a couple
• 25:38
  S2: of them get to go up and have this incredible
• 25:41
  S2: supernatural experience with Jesus. The rest of them are publicly
• 25:47
  S2: unable to perform this miracle that had been asked of them,
• 25:52
  S2: that they, because of the power that Jesus had given
• 25:55
  S2: them in his name, they felt like we should have
• 25:58
  S2: been able to do that. So lots of emotions going
• 26:01
  S2: on here.
• 26:02
  S3: Absolutely. Yes.
• 26:03
  S2: There's the pride of feeling like we got to do
• 26:06
  S2: this cool thing with Jesus. There's a little bit of pride,
• 26:09
  S2: embarrassment of feeling like we kind of got put on
• 26:11
  S2: the spot.
• 26:12
  S3: And there's pride in that sometimes to where it's like,
• 26:14
  S3: I don't want anyone to see me have any type
• 26:18
  S3: of thing perceived failure. Yeah. Because it makes me look small.
• 26:22
  S2: So it's not hard to imagine what that conversation may
• 26:27
  S2: have been like as they're continuing on Pass Through Galilee
• 26:30
  S2: and ended up at Capernaum, where Jesus says, so what
• 26:33
  S2: were you guys talking about? They were probably wrestling with
• 26:38
  S2: who's the greatest? Like, who's the who's the top dog here? Like,
• 26:42
  S2: is it Peter, James, John who got to go up
• 26:43
  S2: on the mountain? Like, what about the rest of us?
• 26:45
  S2: Like we didn't get to go up there. This is I'm,
• 26:47
  S2: I'm doing a little bit of speculation here, but I
• 26:51
  S2: think it's I think it's good to read the read
• 26:54
  S2: the word and really picture what those conversations would have
• 26:57
  S2: been like.
• 26:59
  S3: Yeah, I think it's important because I mean, they're humans.
• 27:01
  S3: They're humans just like us. And so, uh, seeing kind
• 27:04
  S3: of the intricacies of that, it makes it all the
• 27:07
  S3: more relatable because you can trick yourself into thinking, well,
• 27:12
  S3: these guys, they're there, the 12 there following Jesus. What
• 27:15
  S3: would they have to argue about in terms of who's
• 27:18
  S3: the greatest? How would they not know this? But they're
• 27:21
  S3: humans just like us. And when you look at it
• 27:23
  S3: in that perspective, it makes it so much more understandable.
• 27:26
  S2: But Jesus wanted to make sure that they knew that
• 27:29
  S2: what they were pressing for was not the thing to
• 27:31
  S2: be pursued.
• 27:32
  S3: Exactly.
• 27:33
  S2: That greatness comes through servanthood. It's the upside down kingdom
• 27:36
  S2: principle that to be first is to be last. To
• 27:39
  S2: be the greatest is to serve. We know that Scripture
• 27:43
  S2: interprets Scripture, that God opposes the proud, that he gives
• 27:46
  S2: grace to the humble that when we humble ourselves under
• 27:49
  S2: his mighty hand, in due time he may exalt you.
• 27:52
  S2: Whoever exalts himself will be humbled. Whoever humbles himself will
• 27:55
  S2: be exalted. I'm pulling from a lot of different scripture
• 27:58
  S2: here because we're short on time, but I'll land here.
• 28:01
  S2: Psalm 1476 the Lord sustains the humble, but cast the
• 28:05
  S2: wicked to the ground. Pursue humility. If you're tempted today
• 28:11
  S2: or on any day to try to push your way
• 28:13
  S2: to the front of the line in quiet ways or
• 28:16
  S2: loud ways. Remember, the war against pride is won when
• 28:22
  S2: you get low. Get as low as you can. That's
• 28:26
  S2: where we find him.
• 28:27
  S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
• 28:30
  S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
• 28:34
  S1: curl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 28:37
  S2: Well, if you've listened to Carling crew for any length
• 28:40
  S2: of time, you know that a big thing that we
• 28:42
  S2: like to do is not assume that we're all operating
• 28:45
  S2: with the same definitions, right? We like to make the
• 28:48
  S2: gospel clear, because we don't assume that everybody knows what
• 28:51
  S2: it means to be saved or to follow Jesus. Correct?
• 28:56
  S3: Absolutely. There's there's so many different areas in which people
• 28:59
  S3: may have heard about Jesus. And truthfully, but unfortunately, there
• 29:04
  S3: may be some ways that people have talked about Jesus
• 29:06
  S3: that have been incorrect.
• 29:08
  S2: So what about following Jesus? Let's hone in on that discipleship.
• 29:13
  S2: It's following Jesus. It's a metaphor. Jonathan, you love a good.
• 29:17
  S3: I love a good metaphor.
• 29:18
  S2: But what gets lost in our metaphor? I want to
• 29:22
  S2: bring in a guest doctor, Richard Blackaby. He's the president
• 29:25
  S2: of Blackaby Ministries International. And he is the author of
• 29:29
  S2: a book out this week called Following Jesus God's Ancient
• 29:33
  S2: Path to Spiritual Maturity. Okay. So we talk a lot
• 29:37
  S2: about following Jesus with a lot of metaphors that help
• 29:40
  S2: us understand what would Jesus do? We walk like he walks.
• 29:45
  S2: What gets lost in all of our metaphors?
• 29:48
  S7: Well, I think primarily a relationship discipleship is not a program.
• 29:53
  S7: It's a relationship with a person. And a lot of
• 29:56
  S7: people when they're defining discipleship, of course, Jesus told his followers,
• 30:01
  S7: make disciples. And so the church has known that for
• 30:03
  S7: 2000 years. The challenge comes with, what does it mean
• 30:06
  S7: to make a disciple? How do you know if you've
• 30:09
  S7: actually discipled someone? And, and so that's why, as I
• 30:12
  S7: really looked at that, I came down to the simple
• 30:14
  S7: definition that a disciple is a follower of Jesus. Unfortunately,
• 30:19
  S7: a lot of people think a disciple is someone who
• 30:21
  S7: believes in Jesus, someone who goes to church, someone who
• 30:24
  S7: attends a Bible study, someone who has a mentor. The ultimate,
• 30:28
  S7: I mean, the essence of being a disciple is not
• 30:30
  S7: your program, not your activities, but the relationship you have
• 30:34
  S7: with Jesus.
• 30:35
  S2: So when you look at current discipleship trends, you alluded
• 30:39
  S2: to a couple of them, but I'm going to ask
• 30:41
  S2: you to dig a little deeper. What about our current
• 30:43
  S2: discipleship approach do you think is not working?
• 30:47
  S7: It's usually well-intended. We want to do what Jesus said,
• 30:50
  S7: make disciples. But like so many things in the Christian life,
• 30:53
  S7: we want to turn it into a program. And so
• 30:56
  S7: if you just come to the church for six weeks and,
• 30:58
  S7: and take this discipleship program, you'll be a graduate of
• 31:02
  S7: our discipleship, or you just start coming to our Sunday
• 31:05
  S7: school class every week, or just be a regular attender.
• 31:08
  S7: You know, we tend to measure people's spiritual maturity not
• 31:11
  S7: by how much like Jesus they are or not by
• 31:14
  S7: how fervently they're following Jesus, but their attendance. Do they?
• 31:19
  S7: If they're a regular attender, they must be mature. But
• 31:22
  S7: I think you and I both know people who've gone
• 31:24
  S7: to church for years that are still spiritually really immature. Uh,
• 31:28
  S7: there's lots of books out there on, on discipleship. That's
• 31:31
  S7: partly why I never wrote one before, but, but I
• 31:33
  S7: just really felt like we need to just be reminded
• 31:36
  S7: of a few things. And, and a lot of people
• 31:38
  S7: will say that discipleship is following Jesus. And then if you,
• 31:42
  S7: if you keep reading everything they describe for the rest
• 31:45
  S7: of the book is not following Jesus. It's a spiritual discipline.
• 31:49
  S7: And spiritual disciplines are great, but they're not identical to
• 31:52
  S7: following Jesus. You can read your Bible every day and
• 31:54
  S7: not be following Jesus. Uh. You could be saying a
• 31:57
  S7: prayer every day, not following Jesus. And some people say, well,
• 32:00
  S7: you just need to ask, what would Jesus do? Or
• 32:03
  S7: you need to ask yourself, what did Jesus do back in.
• 32:06
  S7: In the Gospels. And then you'll know what you should do.
• 32:09
  S7: And I would say, well, you don't have to ask,
• 32:10
  S7: what would Jesus do? You can ask him, Jesus, what
• 32:13
  S7: should I do? Because if you're following him, you don't
• 32:16
  S7: have to look back in the past. You don't have
• 32:18
  S7: to look 2000 years back to the Gospels to say, well,
• 32:21
  S7: what did he do when he was facing opposition? If
• 32:24
  S7: you're following Jesus. Just stay right with him and he'll
• 32:27
  S7: guide you right through how to handle opposition in your
• 32:30
  S7: own life as well.
• 32:31
  S2: I think what I hear you saying, and I've heard
• 32:33
  S2: Carl say this as well, that sometimes we emphasize giving
• 32:37
  S2: a lot of information, helping people to know more about Jesus,
• 32:42
  S2: to know more about their Bible, to know more, even
• 32:46
  S2: about spiritual disciplines which are all close. But why? Why
• 32:51
  S2: could that still make you miss Jesus?
• 32:54
  S7: Yeah. Well, you know, of course, in Jesus day, no
• 32:57
  S7: one studied their Bible more than the Pharisees did. They
• 33:00
  S7: they they memorized large portions of Scripture. And they went
• 33:04
  S7: around reading it all the time. But then Jesus condemned
• 33:08
  S7: them and said, do you think that in the scriptures
• 33:10
  S7: you have life, but you won't come to me? And
• 33:13
  S7: I'm the Son of God standing right in front of
• 33:15
  S7: you and you. But you'd rather study the scriptures than
• 33:18
  S7: have a relationship with Jesus. And I know this sounds
• 33:21
  S7: heretical because. But I mean, I, I have as high
• 33:24
  S7: a view of the Bible as you can have. But
• 33:27
  S7: Christ did not die on a cross so that you
• 33:29
  S7: could have a relationship with the Bible. The Bible is
• 33:32
  S7: not an ends. It's a means. The Bible is God's
• 33:36
  S7: word that God uses to bring you into a relationship
• 33:39
  S7: with him. But I know a lot of people that
• 33:41
  S7: treat Christianity like it's just an extended Bible study. You
• 33:44
  S7: just keep studying the Bible and you're you're in. But
• 33:47
  S7: I would say, but the Pharisees did that, and they
• 33:50
  S7: were out. They. Because they didn't have a relationship. And
• 33:53
  S7: as we've seen in the Scripture, even the even the
• 33:55
  S7: demons know the scriptures. It's the difference between a demon
• 34:00
  S7: and a disciple is. disciples follow Jesus and demons.
• 34:04
  S2: Don't you know this is where it can, I think,
• 34:06
  S2: probably get confusing for some people. Doctor Richard Blackaby with
• 34:10
  S2: us right now. I want to reintroduce you because they
• 34:12
  S2: hear what you're saying and it seems like, well, how
• 34:16
  S2: do I know Jesus if not through reading my Bible,
• 34:20
  S2: if not through the discipline of prayer, if not through
• 34:22
  S2: the communing with fellow believers, how do I. I understand
• 34:26
  S2: that the disciples walked with him personally, but what does
• 34:29
  S2: that look like in my day to day life? How
• 34:32
  S2: can you explain that to somebody who's listening? And it's
• 34:34
  S2: this is not making any sense at all.
• 34:36
  S7: For many people in Christian traditions, that's all we've ever
• 34:39
  S7: had is just practice these religious practices and disciplines and
• 34:44
  S7: all those things are good. Reading your Bible, praying, going
• 34:46
  S7: to church, having Christian friends, all of those are excellent,
• 34:49
  S7: but they all lead to a relationship. Spiritual disciplines aren't
• 34:53
  S7: the end. They simply create space in your life to
• 34:56
  S7: develop a relationship with Jesus. So when you pray, you're talking.
• 34:59
  S7: You're not you're not saying prayers. You're talking to God. Yeah.
• 35:03
  S7: When you read your Bible, you're not just doing a
• 35:05
  S7: Bible reading. You're you're listening to God speak through his
• 35:08
  S7: word to you and apply his word to your specific life.
• 35:11
  S7: And so the moment you become a Christian, the Holy
• 35:14
  S7: Spirit enters your life. And he's he's called a guide.
• 35:18
  S7: He's called a counselor. His job is to continue to
• 35:21
  S7: guide you in exactly the same way Jesus did with
• 35:24
  S7: his 12 disciples. You can't see the Holy Spirit. You
• 35:27
  S7: don't hear his voice audibly, but he doesn't have to
• 35:30
  S7: speak out loud. He's inside you. He speaks straight to
• 35:33
  S7: your heart. And what you've got to learn is how
• 35:35
  S7: to discern when the Spirit of God within you is
• 35:38
  S7: prompting you. When he prompts you to reach out to
• 35:42
  S7: a friend you haven't seen at church lately. When. When
• 35:44
  S7: he prompts you to go, welcome that visitor in the
• 35:47
  S7: church lobby that no one is greeting when the Spirit
• 35:50
  S7: of God begins to convict you, that the way you're
• 35:52
  S7: talking to your wife or your kid is not honoring
• 35:55
  S7: to him, that's the Spirit of God leading you to
• 35:58
  S7: make the right choices, to live your life in a
• 36:01
  S7: way that honors God. He'll guide you just like Jesus did.
• 36:04
  S7: But it's like any relationship. You've got to learn how
• 36:06
  S7: to discern his voice. And I'll tell you, I've talked
• 36:09
  S7: to lots of Christians who will say, God never speaks
• 36:11
  S7: to me. And then I'll. I'll talk to them for
• 36:14
  S7: five minutes, ask a few questions, and it becomes obvious.
• 36:18
  S7: God's been speaking to them all, all the time. They just.
• 36:21
  S7: It's like, oh, you mean that was God? I didn't
• 36:23
  S7: realize that voice, I was here. I thought that was
• 36:26
  S7: my wife. I thought that was just the preacher. I
• 36:28
  S7: had no idea that that was actually God trying to
• 36:30
  S7: guide me. But when you begin to recognize that boy,
• 36:33
  S7: you'll start to hear God's voice all the time.
• 36:35
  S2: That's a question that we get commonly here. And I'm
• 36:38
  S2: sure every every pastor, every ministry leader gets it. How
• 36:42
  S2: do I know if God's speaking to me? I mean,
• 36:45
  S2: these are just my own thoughts. Is it? You know,
• 36:48
  S2: this is a desire that I have, and I'm wanting
• 36:50
  S2: to hear from God if I'm supposed to take a
• 36:52
  S2: step forward here. How do I discern God's voice compared
• 36:57
  S2: to all of the other noise that's swirling around externally
• 37:01
  S2: and internally.
• 37:02
  S7: That's why you do want to be reading your Bible.
• 37:04
  S7: Because in the Bible, you see the way God thinks.
• 37:07
  S7: You see what God cares about. You see how God
• 37:10
  S7: deals with people. And so when the Spirit of God
• 37:13
  S7: begins to speak to you in the same way you
• 37:15
  S7: see in the scriptures, that ought to alert you all
• 37:18
  S7: through the Bible, God keeps speaking this way. Now I'm
• 37:21
  S7: sensing he's saying that to me as well. And of course,
• 37:23
  S7: it's also a safeguard. If you ever sense anything God's
• 37:27
  S7: telling you to do, like cheat on your wife, well,
• 37:30
  S7: you're going to check. Check that against the Bible and
• 37:33
  S7: you're going to find, oh, that God would never tell
• 37:35
  S7: you that. He's never going to violate his word by
• 37:38
  S7: what he says to you. And that's why you also
• 37:40
  S7: want to fellowship with other believers, because sometimes it isn't
• 37:44
  S7: always as clear as we'd like it to be. And
• 37:46
  S7: so you take what you're sensing, what you're hearing, run
• 37:49
  S7: it past godly friends. And there's just lots of ways
• 37:51
  S7: to have kind of a safeguard so you don't get
• 37:54
  S7: off the rails. That can happen for sure. But there's
• 37:57
  S7: lots of ways to protect yourself so that it doesn't happen.
• 38:01
  S7: If you'll just pay attention and and immerse yourself in
• 38:03
  S7: the word, and then just learn to trust that voice
• 38:06
  S7: when the spirit begins speaking to you as well.
• 38:08
  S2: Yeah. One of the things that you address in this book,
• 38:12
  S2: following Jesus is younger generations. I mean, every, every person
• 38:16
  S2: listening who has a young person in their life, whether
• 38:19
  S2: it's a, a child, a grandchild, a niece, or a nephew,
• 38:23
  S2: your desire is to pass the faith down to them.
• 38:27
  S2: And so many parents express with great anguish, my child
• 38:31
  S2: is far from God. They were raised in the church.
• 38:34
  S2: They went to Sunday school. They went to youth group,
• 38:36
  S2: and now they have totally abandoned everything that they've been raised,
• 38:41
  S2: were raised with. Speak to that a little bit.
• 38:43
  S7: Well, you know, as a parent, I've got three kids
• 38:45
  S7: and I understand that you desperately want every one of
• 38:48
  S7: them to become a Christian, to spend eternity in heaven
• 38:51
  S7: with you one day. Every parent wants that. Who's a Christian?
• 38:54
  S7: I say in the book is sometimes we're more concerned
• 38:57
  S7: about getting decisions than making disciples. We just want our
• 39:01
  S7: kids to pray the prayer. As long as they prayed
• 39:03
  S7: the prayer, then we know they're going to heaven. And
• 39:05
  S7: so then we drag them to church, hoping that that
• 39:07
  S7: will stick with them. The problem is that we're oftentimes
• 39:10
  S7: developing church attenders. We're not developing Jesus followers. And as
• 39:15
  S7: long as they go to church, we think they're good,
• 39:17
  S7: but they're not. They've never been taught to follow Jesus.
• 39:19
  S7: And you know, my dad, when I was a boy teenager,
• 39:23
  S7: I used to go to him all the time and say, dad,
• 39:25
  S7: what should I do? You know, should I go to
• 39:26
  S7: this school? Should I major in that? And my dad
• 39:29
  S7: would always say the same thing. He'd say, I think
• 39:30
  S7: you should ask God. I said, well, yeah, yeah, I'll
• 39:33
  S7: do that. But dad, I want to know what you think.
• 39:34
  S7: And he wouldn't tell me. He'd say, no, go to God.
• 39:37
  S7: And once you hear from him, then come tell me
• 39:39
  S7: what you heard. We can talk about that later. I
• 39:42
  S7: asked him, why did you always do that? Why did
• 39:44
  S7: you never give me your opinion? He said, because I
• 39:46
  S7: didn't want to teach you to be a follower of mine.
• 39:49
  S7: I wanted you to be a follower of Jesus. And
• 39:51
  S7: he said, Jesus is way smarter than me. He said,
• 39:54
  S7: I love you more than any man on the planet.
• 39:56
  S7: But he said, I would never want you to base
• 39:58
  S7: your life on your dad's opinion. He said, I don't
• 40:01
  S7: know the future. I don't know what God has purposes
• 40:04
  S7: for you. I want to teach you to go to God.
• 40:06
  S7: And he said, one day I won't be here anymore.
• 40:08
  S7: But if I've taught you every time you have a question,
• 40:11
  S7: call up dad. Well then one day dad won't be
• 40:13
  S7: able to answer the phone anymore. But he said, if
• 40:16
  S7: I teach you to always go to Jesus, he said,
• 40:18
  S7: you'll always have him. And so I've just thought as
• 40:20
  S7: a parent, you want more than just teach them to
• 40:23
  S7: go to church. If all they do is just develop
• 40:25
  S7: a habit of church attendance. Well, that's really easy to
• 40:28
  S7: fall away from. But you teach them to follow Jesus
• 40:31
  S7: and they'll be doing that the rest of their life.
• 40:33
  S2: Doctor Richard Blackaby love this conversation. The book is called
• 40:36
  S2: Following Jesus God's Ancient Path to Spiritual Maturity. Text experience.
• 40:42
  S2: We want to send you the link. Just text experience
• 40:45
  S2: to 805 557898. Experience to 805 557898.
• 40:54
  S1: You're listening to Curl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 40:57
  S2: It is October now. And so for some people they're
• 41:02
  S2: already thinking about Christmas.
• 41:07
  S8: Jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle. I've been thinking about it.
• 41:10
  S8: Jingle bells, jingle bells ring.
• 41:14
  S2: Anyone have a tree up yet?
• 41:15
  S8: And blowing.
• 41:16
  S9: Oh, that's a little early. A little.
• 41:18
  S2: Early. Early.
• 41:20
  S3: I'm. I'm a November 1st tree kind of guy.
• 41:23
  S2: I mean, that's.
• 41:23
  S8: Like.
• 41:24
  S2: Two and a half weeks away. I know.
• 41:26
  S3: I know. It's just two and a half weeks early.
• 41:29
  S2: Something exciting coming to a city near you. Have you
• 41:33
  S2: heard about the Tasha Layton Christmas all year long tour?
• 41:36
  S3: Yes.
• 41:37
  S2: This is going to be such a fantastic way to
• 41:39
  S2: kick off December. There's six different stops on this tour,
• 41:44
  S2: two in the Chicagoland area, also one in Michigan. Florida. Tennessee.
• 41:48
  S2: Cleveland area. And we have a special promotion that. This
• 41:53
  S2: is the first time we are mentioning it on Kaleen.
• 41:56
  S4: Yeah. Debut.
• 41:57
  S2: So this is going to be two VIP concert tickets.
• 42:00
  S2: Plus this is where it gets really fun. This is
• 42:04
  S2: it's Christmas all year long. So not in addition to
• 42:07
  S2: winning the VIP concert tickets. You're also going to get
• 42:10
  S2: 12 Christmas boxes sent to you throughout the year.
• 42:15
  S4: Oh very cool. All of 2027.
• 42:17
  S2: So all of 2027 you will get to keep the
• 42:19
  S2: Christmas fun going.
• 42:20
  S3: I love.
• 42:21
  S2: That. So this is going to be a really fun contest.
• 42:23
  S2: So you've got all of the details when you text
• 42:26
  S2: Christmas to 805 557898, just text that one word, Christmas
• 42:32
  S2: to 805 557898. This is a this is a unique one. I'm,
• 42:38
  S2: I love that our team came up with this.
• 42:39
  S4: I know very, very cool. And like you said, it's October.
• 42:42
  S4: But thinking Christmas plan ahead. Get ready for it. Do
• 42:45
  S4: it again. The text word. very simply Christmas, Christmas 805,
• 42:49
  S4: five five, 78, 98. But I love the part where
• 42:52
  S4: you get something every month for 2027.
• 42:55
  S2: I know. Keep the Christmas fun going. Christmas to 800 555, 78, 98.
• 43:01
  S1: Making herself laugh no matter who joins her. It's time for.
• 43:05
  S1: Allie thinks it's funny.
• 43:08
  S2: Well, we're back with some fresh jokes for you, as promised.
• 43:12
  S2: So many of you had texted in for them last week.
• 43:14
  S2: They missed you during share, and I felt bad because
• 43:18
  S2: I saw those texts coming in, but we were in
• 43:19
  S2: the middle of share, so you can't just pause the
• 43:23
  S2: whole thing and say, hey, you want to hear some jokes?
• 43:26
  S2: I don't know how management would feel about that. So
• 43:29
  S2: we postponed until this week. Just got back from a convention.
• 43:35
  S2: Chicago's a big convention city, you know.
• 43:37
  S3: Absolutely.
• 43:38
  S2: Yes. Lots of big convention centers. This one was, uh,
• 43:42
  S2: let's say this one was out in Rosemont Convention Center
• 43:46
  S2: in Rosemont, right by the famed O'Hare airport. Okay. It
• 43:51
  S2: was a ravioli convention.
• 43:53
  S3: Ooh.
• 43:53
  S2: Mhm. They got to sample different types of ravioli. Walk around,
• 43:57
  S2: meet another other ravioli.
• 44:00
  S3: Enthusiasts.
• 44:01
  S2: Enthusiasts? Yes, I was gonna say.
• 44:03
  S3: Aficionados.
• 44:03
  S2: But I think enthusiasts fits better.
• 44:06
  S4: You tell Jonathan.
• 44:07
  S2: Long day, though. Walking around this ravioli convention. I came
• 44:12
  S2: back and I said to myself. Boy, are these legs tired? Whoa.
• 44:20
  S3: Which is ironic because Chef Boyardee is like, that's like the,
• 44:24
  S3: the like basis of the, of the raviolis. It comes
• 44:27
  S3: in a can.
• 44:28
  S10: If there really was such a thing as ravioli convention,
• 44:31
  S10: I guarantee that Chef Boyardee.
• 44:33
  S3: Would not be.
• 44:34
  S4: There.
• 44:35
  S10: Yeah. Offensive to. True. True.
• 44:38
  S2: Ravioli lovers. Next up. You know you need to have
• 44:43
  S2: some foods on deck at all times.
• 44:46
  S3: Okay.
• 44:46
  S2: Eggs. Always.
• 44:48
  S9: Yeah.
• 44:49
  S3: It's got to be in your fridge.
• 44:50
  S2: Always a staple in our house. We go through a
• 44:52
  S2: lot of eggs.
• 44:53
  S3: Gallon of milk, bread.
• 44:54
  S2: Yeah, yeah, we go through a lot of milk. Mainly
• 44:57
  S2: just because I have a 14 year old son who
• 44:59
  S2: drinks about a half a gallon a day. What about cheese?
• 45:03
  S2: Do you always have cheese?
• 45:05
  S3: Yes. Lots of cheese.
• 45:06
  S2: Yes. What do you call emergency cheese? Cheese that you
• 45:09
  S2: always need to have on standby. Just in, you know.
• 45:14
  S3: Just in case.
• 45:14
  S2: Yeah, just in case.
• 45:16
  S3: I don't know.
• 45:16
  S2: Just in case or just in case. Oh.
• 45:22
  S4: Good, good.
• 45:23
  S3: I didn't even know I was walking into it.
• 45:25
  S2: Thank you John. And he walked right into that one, folks.
• 45:31
  S2: Text jokes to 805 557898. A couple funnies for your Wednesday.
• 45:37
  S2: Just text jokes to 805 557898.