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Katie Woolf spoke with Australian Education Union NT Branch President Jarvis Ryan · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Three sixty with Katie Wolf. Join the conversation with Katie Wolf.
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  Speaker 2: You are our eyes and ears in the Territory Mix
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  Speaker 2: one O four point nine. Well, if you've got young children,
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  Speaker 2: you'll know that NAPLAN testing has well gotten underway today.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, throughout our territory schools and nationwide. Well, years three,
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  Speaker 2: years five, years seven, and nine are going to be
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  Speaker 2: participating in the National Assessment Program Literacy and numeracy, and
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  Speaker 2: it does, I guess, give a snapshot of student achievement
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  Speaker 2: in reading, writing, language, conventions and numeracy. Now joining us
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  Speaker 2: on the line to talk further about this, Javis Ryan,
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory Education Union President. Good morning to you, Jarvis.
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  Speaker 1: Good to be with you, Katie.
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  Speaker 2: Javis, tell us a little bit more about this NAPLAN testing.
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  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, I know that years three, five, seven,
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  Speaker 2: and nine are going to be participating. How do our
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  Speaker 2: teachers feel about this testing?
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  Speaker 1: Last year, people may recall you to COVID nineteen, NAP
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  Speaker 1: plan didn't take place, and I don't recall a single
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  Speaker 1: person mentioning it. Certainly no one missed it. The issue
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  Speaker 1: is NAP Plan creates a lot of extra work for
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  Speaker 1: the teachers and staff, in schools on top of an
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  Speaker 1: already very very busy workload. And one of the consequences
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  Speaker 1: of moving to the online approach is we've now got
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  Speaker 1: a two week window whereby Napplan occurs. And it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: sound like much, but that's actually five percent of your
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  Speaker 1: learning years, two whole weeks of school that will be
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  Speaker 1: focused around getting that plan happening, juggling resources so kids
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  Speaker 1: have access to those computers and things, and that our
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  Speaker 1: view is as a union that actually eats into a
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  Speaker 1: lot of quality teaching and learning time.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting it's an interesting, I guess discussion
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  Speaker 2: to have from my perspective. I've got two kids that
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  Speaker 2: are actually kicking off in that nap plan testing to day,
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  Speaker 2: and I've tried to just not make much of a
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  Speaker 2: deal about it add all to them. I don't want
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  Speaker 2: them to feel like they're under any kind of pressure
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  Speaker 2: or anything because they're going through that testing. And I
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  Speaker 2: sort of said to them, you know, it's not so
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  Speaker 2: much a test for you. It's a test for the
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  Speaker 2: teachers and for the school to make sure everything's going well.
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  Speaker 2: But then when you think about it from that perspective,
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  Speaker 2: that must put a bit of pressure on the teachers
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  Speaker 2: and the school as well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the approach you've taken with your kids
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  Speaker 1: is the right one because part of the issue within
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  Speaker 1: that plan, why we don't really view it as authentic
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  Speaker 1: assessment for certainly for students, is it's a snapshot basic
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  Speaker 1: skills test point in time. It's not connected to what
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  Speaker 1: students are learning in the classroom. It's got a loose
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  Speaker 1: connection to the Australian curriculum, but that's not generally assessment
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  Speaker 1: is something that's deeply based in the outcome of learning
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  Speaker 1: that might take place over a ten week period. So
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  Speaker 1: that's the right approach. Sadly, you can go into a
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  Speaker 1: newsagent now and you'll see NAP plan prep books and
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  Speaker 1: not so much in the territory, but in other places,
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  Speaker 1: plan scores become a thing that drives admission into private schools,
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  Speaker 1: and these tests have sort of taken on a life
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  Speaker 1: of their own. And yes, at some level there can
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  Speaker 1: be pressure on individual teachers and on schools to lift
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  Speaker 1: their NAP plan results. And naplan results should be more
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  Speaker 1: like the end results of showing there's good teaching and
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  Speaker 1: learning in place to increase performance, rather than be an
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  Speaker 1: end in itself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, from your perspective, are any of the
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  Speaker 2: schools in the territory kind of putting additional pressure on
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  Speaker 2: teachers or putting additional pressure on staff to make sure
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  Speaker 2: that their schools perform well, but.
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  Speaker 1: Not explicitly, and I think the comments from the Minister
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  Speaker 1: have been measured in this regard. There certainly, I think
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  Speaker 1: has been some logistical pressure. I know I was talking
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  Speaker 1: with a in's all of a small remote school on Friday,
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  Speaker 1: and you know he spends most of his time on
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  Speaker 1: class and so the actually there's a bit of scraping
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  Speaker 1: around in some of these small schools just to make
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  Speaker 1: sure they have enough computers to go around for students,
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  Speaker 1: and there's so there are logistical challenges in making sure
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  Speaker 1: there is readiness. I know there's been quite a bit
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  Speaker 1: of testing because many of these schools don't have reliable
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  Speaker 1: internet connections, so they'll be doing what they call low
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  Speaker 1: bandwidth or no bandwidth options. So there is quite a
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  Speaker 1: lot of planning and preparation that goes in. I know,
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  Speaker 1: even in some of our large middle schools we're talking
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  Speaker 1: like dull And Middle School to take our biggest is
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  Speaker 1: they'll have hundreds of students sitting that plan. That is
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  Speaker 1: a big logistical exercise just to just to get students
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  Speaker 1: organized and make sure they have the devices available. And
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  Speaker 1: it does in some ways raise some equity issues to
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  Speaker 1: at ICT access, although I'm told see how it goes.
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  Speaker 1: I'm told that to make NAP plan online work, particularly
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  Speaker 1: in the Bush schools, there were some infrastructure upgrades that
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  Speaker 1: took place.
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  Speaker 2: So, Jarvis, what's your take, I mean, from the Union's perspective,
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  Speaker 2: is this something that we should continue to do. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: is it a good snapshot to find out how school
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  Speaker 2: is going or or is it something that you know
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  Speaker 2: that there is a bit of a waste of time.
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  Speaker 1: We think we think it's largely a waste of time. Certainly,
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  Speaker 1: when we surveyed our members last year, three and four
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  Speaker 1: of them said they didn't believe it was like an
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  Speaker 1: effective tool for measuring school performance. But nat Plane results,
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  Speaker 1: you know, as far as they tell us anything, tell
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  Speaker 1: us that student results or aptitudes learning outcomes still are
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  Speaker 1: largely very much tied to their family circumstances and their background.
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  Speaker 1: That's still the big barrier we have in Australia that
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  Speaker 1: we'd like an education system that helps kids at the
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  Speaker 1: bottom rise to the top, and those scores largely reflect
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  Speaker 1: well to do schools, their students will do well. Disadvantage
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  Speaker 1: schools will be the opposite of that, and that's I
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  Speaker 1: think Naplin doesn't really address any of those issues that
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  Speaker 1: may help highlight some of the disadvantage that many of
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  Speaker 1: our students face, and that's still the biggest barrier we
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  Speaker 1: have here in the Northern Territory. One thing that the
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  Speaker 1: data has shown, I think is that paying some tribute
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  Speaker 1: to the very hard work our teachers have done is
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  Speaker 1: VNT is coming from a low base, but some of
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  Speaker 1: the data shows what we call value adding. There's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of work on lifting hits up and we're doing
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  Speaker 1: a good job there in terms of helping our students
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  Speaker 1: improve and that's clearly something we need to see a
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  Speaker 1: lot more of.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is good to hear. Can I just ask
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  Speaker 2: you very quickly, Javis, one of the other issues that
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  Speaker 2: has been raised throughout the morning and over the last
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  Speaker 2: couple of weeks. Really we also ask the Police Minister
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  Speaker 2: about it this morning for a bit of an update
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  Speaker 2: on those police based constables. From your perspective as the
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  Speaker 2: Education Union here, is this something that's raised with you
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  Speaker 2: very often.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, it is. It's something our members feel very passionately
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  Speaker 1: about and has come up at our annual conference sort
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  Speaker 1: of every year for the last few years, and it's
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  Speaker 1: been a very successful program in its history in the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory. We're very happy to have it come back
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  Speaker 1: in late twenty nineteen. And then those police were pulled
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  Speaker 1: out for operational reasons, resourcing reasons during the COVID crisis.
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  Speaker 1: My understanding is the Department of Education now has an
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  Speaker 1: MoU with police that we'll see the return of at
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  Speaker 1: least fifteen school based constables in beginning in term three,
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  Speaker 1: and that is a big issue Catherine High School. Our
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  Speaker 1: members have directly petitioned us and the Minister requesting the
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  Speaker 1: return of school based officer to Minman College. They've been
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  Speaker 1: very vocal. So, yeah, it is one part of what
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  Speaker 1: we call, you know, one part of what we call
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  Speaker 1: an important solution in terms of the jigsaw puzzle of
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  Speaker 1: all these different things we need in place to help
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  Speaker 1: address some of the behavioral issues that we see at school.
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  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's the police officers' job to be
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  Speaker 1: in managing student behavior, but we've talked about for students
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  Speaker 1: who may be in trouble. Their first interactions with police
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  Speaker 1: may often be negative. This is about trying to turn
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  Speaker 1: some of those things around, build relationships and make it
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  Speaker 1: much more positive.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Jarvis Ryan are the president of the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 2: Education Union. Good to speak with you this morning. I
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  Speaker 2: really appreciate your time our pleasure.
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  Speaker 1: As always, thank thank you,