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Victoria Woodhull – Unstoppable · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

0:05
Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension,
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Speaker 1: Vox Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from
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Speaker 1: their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
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Speaker 1: rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
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Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice. Many people are surprised to
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Speaker 1: learn that the first woman to run for US president
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Speaker 1: did so in eighteen seventy, two decades before women had
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Speaker 1: the right to vote. Victoria Woodhull was the first of
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Speaker 1: now more than one hundred women to do so. Some
0:53
Speaker 1: made their parties ticket, others did not get that far.
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Speaker 1: My guest this week on Vox Novus, Kate Danaher shares
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Speaker 1: victorious story in her historical novel Unstoppable, The Victoria Woodhull Story.
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Speaker 1: This is Kate Danaher's first novel. She holds a doctorate
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Speaker 1: in English literature from the University of Delaware and is
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Speaker 1: a former professor of English at Rosemont College, Pennsylvania. She's
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Speaker 1: an Irish storyteller, fiddler, and a founder and emeritus board
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Speaker 1: member of the Irish Heritage Theater in Philadelphia. Kate is
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Speaker 1: an award winning writer whose feature screenplays have received accolades
1:34
Speaker 1: in more than two dozen festivals and competitions. Her honors
1:38
Speaker 1: include both Best Period Drama and Outstanding Drama. Her website
1:43
Speaker 1: is Katedanaher dot com, and she joins me this week
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Speaker 1: to share her path and Victoria Woodhole's amazing story. Please
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Speaker 1: join me in welcoming to Vox Novis Kate Danaher.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, Kate, thank you, thank you for the invitation. Very excited.
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Speaker 1: Kate. Please share with our listeners your path and how
2:05
Speaker 1: it led to your love for books and writing.
2:09
Speaker 2: Oh, my path that led to love of books and writing.
2:13
Speaker 2: I guess my path was was a path down the
2:17
Speaker 2: Fairmount Park Cobbs Creek. It was it was just called
2:23
Speaker 2: Cobbs Creek Parkway, and I could ride my bicycle down
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Speaker 2: to this beautiful old library. And I used to love
2:30
Speaker 2: to do that. I could in Philadelphia, and I loved
2:35
Speaker 2: going in the library. I fell in love with Black
2:38
Speaker 2: Beauty and Nancy Drew. But it was always a wonderful
2:43
Speaker 2: thing to be able to do to I can still
2:45
Speaker 2: see myself riding my bike down that path. That's a
2:48
Speaker 2: long time ago. So I love books from from the
2:52
Speaker 2: get go, really, from I guess from the time I
2:55
Speaker 2: could get on a good bicycle. I don't remember my
3:00
Speaker 2: my mother reading me books or anything. The earliest memory
3:03
Speaker 2: I have is the bicycle, which you know, and back
3:05
Speaker 2: then you could do that, you know, you could go
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Speaker 2: off on your own, and it was really lovely.
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Speaker 1: And were there any books that inspired you early on?
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Speaker 2: Oh? Little Women was one of the first that I thought,
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Speaker 2: that's just wonderful, you know, besides black beauty I loved.
3:24
Speaker 2: I loved horses, you know, but I love Little Women.
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Speaker 2: And Nancy Drew And as I said, I loved her
3:31
Speaker 2: her spirit.
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Speaker 1: Do you know?
3:33
Speaker 2: She was always on the go, trying to figure things out.
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Speaker 2: It just gave me a sense of the vibrancy of life.
3:41
Speaker 2: Do you know that? It just I don't know. It's
3:45
Speaker 2: interesting that you're asking these I'm trying to find the answers.
3:48
Speaker 2: What what What did make me like that? I can
3:50
Speaker 2: still picture myself in my bedroom reading Little Women?
3:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, wonderful. Your bio says you're a fiddler and I
3:59
Speaker 1: I storyteller, an actor and an avid tennis player. Now
4:04
Speaker 1: most of us know three of these, but Irish storyteller
4:08
Speaker 1: may be new to many. What is an Irish storyteller
4:11
Speaker 1: also known in Gaelic as a shaaniky.
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Speaker 2: Yes, well, they used to travel from town to town.
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Speaker 2: That was an itinerant, an itinerant entertainer that went to
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Speaker 2: houses where people would gather, you know, two for meals
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Speaker 2: and stories and singing, and he would comm and if
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Speaker 2: you had a shanicky that would show up. It was
4:36
Speaker 2: really nice if you had one show up at your house,
4:38
Speaker 2: if they were in the village, they might come. But
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Speaker 2: you have in Ireland you have to be always prepared
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Speaker 2: at any gathering to tell a story or sing a song.
4:47
Speaker 2: You definitely do. A friend of mine told me they
4:50
Speaker 2: used to go around the room and hold a frying
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Speaker 2: pan over your head and say it's your turn. Now
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Speaker 2: you know, I never had that happen to me. But
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Speaker 2: it's a very vibrant culture. Love Ireland. My father was
5:01
Speaker 2: born there and I was at least there fifteen twenty times.
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Speaker 2: You know that I've been to Ireland because his sister
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Speaker 2: lived there. For a good bit of my adult life.
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Speaker 2: I used to go visit her. I also went to
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Speaker 2: school in Ireland. But how I got to be a
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Speaker 2: storyteller is this. My father said one day, Oh, there's
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Speaker 2: Irish actors coming to Philadelphia. There's going to be a
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Speaker 2: play Philadelphia. Here I come, It's called and I said,
5:33
Speaker 2: how wow, you know the actor? You know actors? And
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Speaker 2: he said no, I don't know them, but you don't
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Speaker 2: want them going back to Ireland, saying they received no
5:41
Speaker 2: hospitality in Philadelphia, do you? And I said, well, I
5:45
Speaker 2: guess not, and down he went invited them to dinner,
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Speaker 2: and of course it was a night of Shanicky's people
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Speaker 2: telling stories of my father and one of the main
5:55
Speaker 2: actors in the play became very good friends. And I
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Speaker 2: knew him when I went to school in Ireland because
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Speaker 2: I went to every one of his plays. He was
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Speaker 2: an actor with the Abbey Theater and years later when
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Speaker 2: he passed away, I was in Ireland with my husband
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Speaker 2: and his family and invited a lot of people to
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Speaker 2: dinner downtown to Dublin two. Because you have to visit everybody,
6:23
Speaker 2: you know when you go to Ireland. If you miss anybody,
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Speaker 2: you're in trouble. So I said, well, we'll just have
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Speaker 2: a dinner and everybody can come. And this man's wife came.
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Speaker 2: Her name was Maura Kelly. He was Amon Kelly. He's
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Speaker 2: known as Ireland's master storyteller. Well Maura anyway, walked in
6:42
Speaker 2: and she had his book under her arm, and she
6:44
Speaker 2: walked up to me before she even sat down, and
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Speaker 2: she said, here, now you tell these stories. I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no,
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Speaker 2: I could not do that. I didn't want to sound
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Speaker 2: like a fake Irish person or you know. He was
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Speaker 2: so delightful, he was so good his stories. And she
7:04
Speaker 2: said to me, yes, you can, you can do it,
7:08
Speaker 2: you know the old people. And I thought, well, that
7:12
Speaker 2: actually is true, but I still resisted. But a year
7:15
Speaker 2: later I finally tried, and I became a storyteller. I
7:18
Speaker 2: still do it. I love it. It's very It brings laughter
7:27
Speaker 2: to people, which is so healing. And I haven't done
7:32
Speaker 2: it in a while because when I started writing this book,
7:35
Speaker 2: I got tied up, you know, with writing, and I
7:37
Speaker 2: think I have got to get back to telling new
7:39
Speaker 2: stories live because it's good for me and for the audience.
7:45
Speaker 2: So I do have one book for next winter, you know,
7:48
Speaker 2: but I really should do it more. I used to
7:49
Speaker 2: do it a lot, So thanks for letting me go
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Speaker 2: on about that much.
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Speaker 1: No, that's a wonderful story.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Laughter it just really helps I think it, you know, physiologically,
8:02
Speaker 2: if they study that, just like they studied. I just
8:05
Speaker 2: was reading about and you mention it too. And I
8:09
Speaker 2: see that in your biography about touch and a person's
8:14
Speaker 2: touch can be physiologically healing, so that's interesting too. But
8:21
Speaker 2: so I'm interested in that and the always of healing
8:26
Speaker 2: the soul, you know.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes, telling those stories and bringing smiles to people's faces,
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Speaker 1: especially in the world that we live in today, is
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Speaker 1: a very very precious way, right.
8:36
Speaker 2: Yes, I know, I know. I'm so glad I made
8:40
Speaker 2: I said, I went there last year. Before I left,
8:42
Speaker 2: I said on my book, I'm coming back to the
8:45
Speaker 2: I live in the community in Florida, I said, put
8:47
Speaker 2: me down for Saint Patrick's week. I'm telling the stories wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
8:54
Speaker 2: they're always funny. His stories like about how do people,
8:59
Speaker 2: you know, what did they think the first umbrella they
9:01
Speaker 2: ever saw? Or do you know things like that they
9:03
Speaker 2: don't know what it is, And they're just old country
9:07
Speaker 2: stories and fun things that happen in the village. It's
9:10
Speaker 2: they are anyway.
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Speaker 1: And also you're also an award winning writer whose feature
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Speaker 1: screenplays have received accolades in more than two dozen festivals
9:21
Speaker 1: and competitions. Your honors included both Best Period drama and
9:26
Speaker 1: outstanding Drama. How does the screenwriting differ from the other
9:30
Speaker 1: forms of writing you've done?
9:32
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, see, I started with the screenwriting because well,
9:39
Speaker 2: I saw an article in a paper and I have
9:40
Speaker 2: a friend who was He's actually a great school friend.
9:44
Speaker 2: He was a his name was Steve Ravel and he
9:48
Speaker 2: was a you know, an Oscar nominee for his He
9:51
Speaker 2: was one of the screenwriters for Nixon, for the screenplay Nixon.
9:54
Speaker 2: And I told him about this article I saw in
9:56
Speaker 2: the paper and I said, that could be that'd be
9:58
Speaker 2: a good story. You should write it screenplay about that.
10:01
Speaker 2: He said to me, no, you can do it, you
10:02
Speaker 2: do it. I'm like, what, Well, anyway, I did start.
10:05
Speaker 2: I tried, I got a I got a writing partner.
10:07
Speaker 2: We did pretty well with that. He actually liked it,
10:09
Speaker 2: but we did never sell it. Then we wanted to
10:11
Speaker 2: do another project, and my screenwriter's partner says, oh, why
10:16
Speaker 2: don't you try, Why don't you write about Victoria Woodhull?
10:20
Speaker 2: And we're like, what, who's that? Well then we found
10:23
Speaker 2: out right, So anyway, but I spent years working on
10:29
Speaker 2: screenwriting with Victoria Woodhull. And it does differ greatly from
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Speaker 2: novel writing, which is which I which is what I've
10:37
Speaker 2: now done, written a novel about Victoria Woodhull, and then
10:41
Speaker 2: because I liked it much better. There's many reasons why
10:44
Speaker 2: I switched. I start from the from the screenplay to
10:47
Speaker 2: the novel, because even though I won awards, I still
10:51
Speaker 2: felt I had never captured her spirit. It didn't feel right.
10:57
Speaker 2: And even when I had a producer that said I
10:59
Speaker 2: want to option your script, I said, well, nah, And
11:03
Speaker 2: she said, what do you mean. I said, because that
11:06
Speaker 2: is not where it needs to be. It doesn't it
11:09
Speaker 2: doesn't capture her. I know that. Even though you know,
11:13
Speaker 2: even though these people say it's great, you know, I
11:15
Speaker 2: don't think so. So we started still reworking it. But
11:19
Speaker 2: here's the story of why I switched to to writing
11:24
Speaker 2: the novel instead. So we write it, and we were
11:27
Speaker 2: relying on We're relying on the most recent biographies. There
11:32
Speaker 2: was like three of them that came out, like from
11:34
Speaker 2: ninety four, ninety six, ninety eight, you know, in that
11:37
Speaker 2: period of time, and this is this is like two
11:41
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, this is years ten years later, right,
11:44
Speaker 2: But we thought, okay, those are good reliable biographies, and
11:49
Speaker 2: we used those. My partner and I to tell her story,
11:53
Speaker 2: and I worked on that off and on. My partner
11:56
Speaker 2: went on to other projects. When we didn't we didn't
11:58
Speaker 2: get any traction. We want them words together. Then I
12:01
Speaker 2: did it myself and I want a words myself. And
12:03
Speaker 2: then I got this producer. So this we're talking eight
12:07
Speaker 2: years into this. I'm really trying to crack the nut
12:09
Speaker 2: to get the story of Victoria Woodhull onto a screenplay.
12:13
Speaker 2: And we worked together, this producer and I. We polished
12:17
Speaker 2: it some more. Then we got somebody to look at it.
12:20
Speaker 2: This person was somebody I had met years before when
12:24
Speaker 2: I first started on Victoria Woodhull. I looked her up
12:26
Speaker 2: and she had a website and she sold T shirts
12:29
Speaker 2: and I bought one, and I thought she was a
12:32
Speaker 2: nice lady. I called this lady back. I said, you
12:35
Speaker 2: might not remember me, but I, you know whatever. She's like,
12:38
Speaker 2: oh yeah, And I said, would you read our screenplay?
12:41
Speaker 2: We want to be sure we're true to the spirit
12:43
Speaker 2: of Victoria Woodhull and she's like, what, I don't know.
12:47
Speaker 2: She hesitated, and I said, well, you know, really, we
12:51
Speaker 2: really are genuinely, you know, serious about this. Okay. She
12:57
Speaker 2: reads it and then she comes back to us. Okay,
12:59
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's some nice screenplay, except it's not true.
13:05
Speaker 2: And I said, what do you mean it's not true?
13:07
Speaker 2: She said, well, like, like what what's not true? Well, well, like,
13:13
Speaker 2: well you're let's start with your first scene. I said,
13:16
Speaker 2: that first scene, it says in that biography, it says
13:19
Speaker 2: according to her own account, Victoria's own account. I can
13:23
Speaker 2: see those words. She says, yeah, but that but that
13:27
Speaker 2: was somebody who said it was her own account. That
13:29
Speaker 2: wasn't really Victoria Woodhol's own account. And I'm like, okay,
13:34
Speaker 2: what else is wrong? Next? Well, the next scene, you know,
13:38
Speaker 2: there's really no evidence that she did that. In fact,
13:40
Speaker 2: I have evidence to the contrary. Oh my god. It
13:43
Speaker 2: was like everything was, you know, just blown out of
13:49
Speaker 2: the water. I'm like, all right, then I just started
13:53
Speaker 2: investigating why why is this stuff not true? That is
13:56
Speaker 2: a whole other story. People are very very sloppy and
14:00
Speaker 2: so called biographers, and they're supposed to be doing you know,
14:07
Speaker 2: detailed work if somebody's writing it, and some of them
14:11
Speaker 2: did a very good job on some things and then
14:13
Speaker 2: really not good on others. And I had to like
14:17
Speaker 2: face that reality that I'd spent eight years doing that,
14:19
Speaker 2: and it wasn't. And then I let four years dribble By,
14:24
Speaker 2: got very friendly with this person, by the way, did
14:27
Speaker 2: some research for her and started learning more about why
14:31
Speaker 2: everything was so wrong about Victoria Woodhall through the century,
14:36
Speaker 2: what myths had been created about her. I was my
14:40
Speaker 2: world was growing and my awareness was growing. And then
14:45
Speaker 2: when covid hit, I thought, here we go. I'm gonna
14:48
Speaker 2: turn it into a novel. Anyway, that's my long answer.
14:52
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you know, it's really interesting because my next
14:55
Speaker 1: question was why would you choose the historical novel format
15:00
Speaker 1: as opposed to something a little more in the vein
15:05
Speaker 1: of biography, for example. And I think you've just answered
15:08
Speaker 1: that question. But what was I about Victoria that attracted you?
15:11
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, the other thing is I Mary, the person
15:17
Speaker 2: I consulted with that told us everything was wrong, that
15:21
Speaker 2: it was all a series of whisper down the lane.
15:24
Speaker 2: One myth led to another, and they grew and grew
15:27
Speaker 2: and grew. She is writing a biography. She has researched
15:31
Speaker 2: for thirty years. Her name's Mary Sheer, and she has
15:37
Speaker 2: a website Victoria Dashwoodhall dot com. And there's another website,
15:41
Speaker 2: Victoria Rising. You can find all the serious history there.
15:46
Speaker 2: That's a wonderful place. So sorry, Now, what was your question.
15:50
Speaker 2: I've meant to tell you that before I got into
15:52
Speaker 2: the and.
15:53
Speaker 1: That's exactly That's exactly what I was asking. What was
15:56
Speaker 1: the inspiration about Victoria that made you write this book?
16:00
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, the first inspiration was was when my writing
16:04
Speaker 2: partner's wife said, want to write about Victoria Woodholm and
16:07
Speaker 2: we're both like, well, who the heck is that? See
16:10
Speaker 2: none of it.
16:10
Speaker 1: We didn't know her.
16:11
Speaker 2: So that my first inspiration. How come I didn't know
16:14
Speaker 2: about the first woman? She's the first woman that ever
16:16
Speaker 2: ran for president?
16:18
Speaker 1: You know.
16:18
Speaker 2: His wife says, well, how do we not know that?
16:20
Speaker 2: Why did we not know that? So then you want
16:22
Speaker 2: to ask, you want to answer that question, what is
16:25
Speaker 2: the reason? And then you start learning about her, and
16:29
Speaker 2: you still don't know the reason. You know why. It
16:32
Speaker 2: takes years to learn the reason why she why she
16:34
Speaker 2: was hidden. You know, it's not like nobody's going to
16:38
Speaker 2: answer that immediately. Although Mary sheer Well on her website
16:41
Speaker 2: you say why don't we know her? She's she has
16:42
Speaker 2: a little kinds of questions you can click on and
16:46
Speaker 2: find the answers to, but Yeah, that inspired me also
16:51
Speaker 2: that she had you know, she came from a struggling childhood.
16:54
Speaker 2: It wasn't easy. She you know, lived in a small town.
16:58
Speaker 2: It wasn't as some writers say today even today they
17:01
Speaker 2: write a scrub of a place. Now, it was actually
17:05
Speaker 2: a small town. It was a stagecoach stop. She was
17:09
Speaker 2: exposed to a lot of you know, information, people coming
17:12
Speaker 2: and going. She knew what was going on in the world,
17:15
Speaker 2: and she, you know, she grew up very alert and aware.
17:19
Speaker 2: I would say, she had to be of what the
17:22
Speaker 2: what life was like. And I wanted to explore how
17:25
Speaker 2: does a struggling girl, you know, her father had lost
17:30
Speaker 2: a lot uh In in his speculations. Was not the
17:35
Speaker 2: con man people said he was. He did not set
17:37
Speaker 2: his mill on fire just for the insurance money. People
17:40
Speaker 2: like to say that about him. They don't know, and
17:43
Speaker 2: you know, but they did struggle. How did she become
17:46
Speaker 2: the person she became to run to, you know, to
17:49
Speaker 2: go from there to run for US president. So I
17:53
Speaker 2: was just inspired by that, by that leap, you know,
17:58
Speaker 2: I wanted to fill in the gaps, you know, like
18:00
Speaker 2: what what what happened all along here? And it's been
18:04
Speaker 2: a most fascinating journey from the from the dispelling of
18:09
Speaker 2: all the multiple myths. You have to be careful. Let
18:12
Speaker 2: me tell your listeners, don't believe what you read on
18:15
Speaker 2: the internet, because it's all going to be simplified. It's
18:20
Speaker 2: oversimplified and exaggerated, misrepresented a lot of it. You have
18:24
Speaker 2: to be super careful. So I wanted to write this
18:28
Speaker 2: book because I thought, well, Mary's writing the biography. I
18:32
Speaker 2: wanted to write a book to recreate this this girl.
18:37
Speaker 2: Do you know what was she like? How did it?
18:39
Speaker 2: How did she grow and become the person she became
18:44
Speaker 2: that was able to do what she was able to do,
18:47
Speaker 2: and a lot of that we don't have information about
18:49
Speaker 2: her young life. So I would extrapolate from what she
18:52
Speaker 2: became and what she spoke about as an older adult,
19:01
Speaker 2: you know, what would have led her to those beliefs.
19:05
Speaker 2: You know, those were the gaps I wanted to fill in,
19:07
Speaker 2: and I wanted to make it into a into an
19:09
Speaker 2: experience like let's go along, Let's go along for a
19:15
Speaker 2: ride with Victorious. See what's her life like? What happens
19:18
Speaker 2: when she's married at fifteen, how does she feel? What
19:22
Speaker 2: does she think? And then when a year later, she
19:25
Speaker 2: gives birth to a severely disabled child. What is that like?
19:29
Speaker 2: What does she think and feel? I wanted to create
19:31
Speaker 2: that experience as part of a novel which also just
19:37
Speaker 2: hits the marks on putting in the things that actually
19:41
Speaker 2: did happen to her, you know, where all the places
19:46
Speaker 2: that she moved in life, and how she made her way,
19:50
Speaker 2: what she did and what she did in New York,
19:52
Speaker 2: and her work with the Suffrage Association, and her conflicts
19:54
Speaker 2: with the leading religious and political figures of the time.
20:00
Speaker 2: Those events all happened to her. And then in between
20:04
Speaker 2: I fill it out. I put some flesh on the bones.
20:07
Speaker 2: As they say, it's been fascinating. I just really love it,
20:11
Speaker 2: and I hope that people would love the novel to
20:14
Speaker 2: read Unstoppable and think what made her unstoppable and then
20:18
Speaker 2: you know, sort of experience with rather than just read
20:24
Speaker 2: an article and learn the facts, get the I want
20:26
Speaker 2: to get the feeling of her life. And so yeah,
20:30
Speaker 2: so that's what I did.
20:32
Speaker 1: My guest is Kate danaher her brand new book Unstoppable,
20:36
Speaker 1: The Victoria Woodhull Story. Kate, please share with our listeners
20:40
Speaker 1: where they can get your book and find out more
20:42
Speaker 1: about you and this amazing work.
20:44
Speaker 2: Oh thank you uh. My book is available on at
20:49
Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble book Book Bookshop dot org, Amazon dot
20:54
Speaker 2: com delinks her on my website, which is Kate Danaher
21:00
Speaker 2: dot com. My last name is. Lots of things on
21:04
Speaker 2: there for you to peek at. Little video to a
21:07
Speaker 2: little trailer that's fun to look at.
21:09
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more of Kate after these
21:11
Speaker 1: words on the Own Times radio network.
21:15
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Speaker 1: Back on Box Novus, My guest this week is Kate Donaher.
22:48
Speaker 1: We're talking about her book Unstoppable, The Victoria Woodhull Story. Kate,
22:55
Speaker 1: tell us more about Victoria. You say that she was
22:59
Speaker 1: ahead of her time?
23:01
Speaker 2: How so well she?
23:04
Speaker 4: Ah, she was.
23:07
Speaker 2: It's interesting that she was. In some ways, she was
23:14
Speaker 2: right in her time, but she was one of the
23:17
Speaker 2: of a group of people. There were lots of people
23:21
Speaker 2: that call themselves spiritualists at the time, and she she
23:26
Speaker 2: was one of them. But they weren't. They weren't a
23:29
Speaker 2: majority of people that you know, there were churches that
23:32
Speaker 2: still wanted people to uh pay to listen to what
23:36
Speaker 2: they said, abide by their their rules, listen to the
23:41
Speaker 2: dictates of the clergy. But uh, there's so many factors
23:45
Speaker 2: that go into you know, the what changes a country.
23:49
Speaker 2: And but spiritualism was developing. People wanted to they wanted
23:54
Speaker 2: to be more dependent on the individual communion with God,
24:02
Speaker 2: you know who, instead of you know, listening to the authorities.
24:08
Speaker 2: And so she was she was like that. She picked
24:12
Speaker 2: up the she picked up you know, the spirit uh
24:16
Speaker 2: that was flowing through at that time. And and a
24:18
Speaker 2: lot of people look down on all those people. They're
24:20
Speaker 2: gonna they want to be individuals. They're gonna they're gonna
24:25
Speaker 2: women want to be speakers. Women were able to become
24:31
Speaker 2: trance speakers. When Victoria was young and growing up, there
24:35
Speaker 2: were plenty of people like that doing that. But the
24:38
Speaker 2: people opposed them, they thought, oh, they're gonna upset, you know,
24:41
Speaker 2: they upset the cultural balance. Here. They're going out, they're
24:46
Speaker 2: not staying in their homes, and they're you know, taking
24:49
Speaker 2: care of the family. They're doing this, they're doing that,
24:53
Speaker 2: and you know, she just grew up in that world.
24:55
Speaker 2: She couldn't help but absorb it. So she was ahead
25:01
Speaker 2: of her time. However, in that she would not I
25:05
Speaker 2: mean a lot of people sort of toned down. She
25:08
Speaker 2: was like, no, we got to go for this. We
25:10
Speaker 2: gotta go for this. You've got to you know. She
25:13
Speaker 2: she met people like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton,
25:17
Speaker 2: and she said she she learns about what they're doing
25:21
Speaker 2: and how long they had been fighting for you know,
25:24
Speaker 2: two decades fighting to get more freedom for women and
25:28
Speaker 2: women's votes. And she's like, two decades, what's going on here?
25:34
Speaker 2: And they even felt Elizabeth Katie Stanton said we need
25:39
Speaker 2: you know, we need a new evangel at this time.
25:41
Speaker 2: We need someone to carry the torch. And she she
25:45
Speaker 2: just knew, I'm the I'll do it, I'll do it.
25:51
Speaker 2: And they were very, very excited when she joined. She
25:54
Speaker 2: brought a new life to the whole women's movement. She's like,
25:57
Speaker 2: this is this is enough? You know.
25:59
Speaker 1: And for our younger listeners listening who may not be
26:03
Speaker 1: familiar with talking about the suffragette.
26:05
Speaker 2: Movement, yes, yes, yes, and they call them suffragists back then,
26:09
Speaker 2: Actually that's one thing, I don't know why it changed
26:11
Speaker 2: from suffragists to suffragette, but that's something we can all google, right,
26:16
Speaker 2: But yes, Elizabeth Katie Stanton began the first Women's Rights
26:21
Speaker 2: Convention in eighteen forty eight. In fact, it's in Seneca Falls,
26:28
Speaker 2: New York, and I was just there about two weekends ago,
26:31
Speaker 2: and I've been invited to come back next year and
26:35
Speaker 2: to speak at the National Women's Hall of Fame to
26:38
Speaker 2: speak about Victoria Woodholl who has been inducted into the
26:41
Speaker 2: National Women's Hall of Fame. So I'm speaking of what
26:44
Speaker 2: they call Convention Days, which is in mid July. It
26:47
Speaker 2: celebrates the Elizabeth Katie Stanton and her four friends who
26:53
Speaker 2: started the first Women's Rights Convention, And so that's what
26:58
Speaker 2: I'll be doing. Then, Susan Biant and he actually, which
27:02
Speaker 2: people that's the name people are familiar with, did not
27:05
Speaker 2: know Elizabeth Katie Stanton at that time. She met her
27:08
Speaker 2: about three years later. But anyway, that's what that's what
27:13
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to doing. But Victoria was looking forward
27:18
Speaker 2: to like helping these people, and they were very excited
27:21
Speaker 2: that she did it. But she did eventually come to
27:26
Speaker 2: what would you say, like a break with them. Not
27:30
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Katie Stanton. She always agreed with what Victoria did.
27:33
Speaker 2: She thought she brought new life into the movement. She
27:36
Speaker 2: brought the spiritualists, she brought the labor reformers, she brought
27:39
Speaker 2: the workers because she was interested in all kinds of reform,
27:43
Speaker 2: economic and social freedom, not just the vote. But the
27:48
Speaker 2: problem became that Susan B. Anthony said, we cannot try
27:54
Speaker 2: for all that at once. If we do, we're going
27:57
Speaker 2: to lose the vote, you know. She she wanted to
28:02
Speaker 2: hold back. But in the meantime, before that break, Victoria
28:07
Speaker 2: did do something which was very and they were all
28:11
Speaker 2: thrilled about. And that's how they even found out about her.
28:14
Speaker 2: But she had met somebody and she got the idea.
28:17
Speaker 2: She'd gone to the first conference, and this person was
28:20
Speaker 2: talking about, we don't need a sixteenth Amendment, you know,
28:24
Speaker 2: we only need you know, we had the thirteenth, fourteenth
28:28
Speaker 2: fifteenth that gave African Americans and citizenship, gave them the
28:32
Speaker 2: right to vote all that. Women didn't have that yet,
28:37
Speaker 2: and they wanted a sixteenth Amendment to give women the
28:40
Speaker 2: right to vote. They were fighting for it, and Victoria
28:46
Speaker 2: heard somebody talking about, you don't need that. You've got it.
28:49
Speaker 2: Says it in the fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments, that they
28:53
Speaker 2: cannot deny the vote. You know that all citizens are
28:58
Speaker 2: are allowed to vote. Well, as I said to blacks
29:01
Speaker 2: were citizens, and it said all no, regardless of race
29:05
Speaker 2: or class. But then people would say no, no, no.
29:07
Speaker 2: In the second paragraph it says all male citizens. And
29:11
Speaker 2: she would argue with senators that you would meet in
29:13
Speaker 2: this one Senator Bingham, No, no, you're not a citizen,
29:17
Speaker 2: you know, like that. So she's like, yes, we are.
29:20
Speaker 2: So she took her argument to a congressional committee. She
29:24
Speaker 2: was the first person to speak before the House Judiciary Committee,
29:28
Speaker 2: and she delivered this thing about all we need is
29:31
Speaker 2: a declaratory Act and then we will have the right
29:34
Speaker 2: to vote. And everyone was excited about this because even
29:39
Speaker 2: Susan B. Anthony's like, this is the new situation. She
29:42
Speaker 2: went around and spoke for a year, this is a
29:44
Speaker 2: new situation. We're going to get a declaratory act, We're
29:46
Speaker 2: going to get the vote. And this is in eighteen
29:49
Speaker 2: seventy one. They did not get it, and this had
29:53
Speaker 2: to wait till nineteen twenty. You know, that's how hard
29:55
Speaker 2: it was. So in the meantime, but going forward in time,
30:00
Speaker 2: as Victoria then kept fighting for not only the vote,
30:03
Speaker 2: but economic social freedom, and the freedom for individual sovereignty
30:12
Speaker 2: and to love who you wanted, when you wanted, and
30:15
Speaker 2: you know, no government or law could could infringe upon
30:20
Speaker 2: that right. Well that was sounding a little radical, you
30:24
Speaker 2: know at the time, because that would say, well, that
30:28
Speaker 2: means you allow divorce, you know, And then they were worried,
30:32
Speaker 2: you know, that'll upset the balance of the family, that
30:35
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And she but she continued to fight
30:37
Speaker 2: for this and as I said, Susan said, we can't
30:40
Speaker 2: do it. We can't do it, and we're not going
30:42
Speaker 2: to make it, and they and they split and Victoria
30:44
Speaker 2: was kind of cut out of it by the time
30:46
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenty when they and they were writing the
30:49
Speaker 2: history of women's suffrage, they kind of just left her out.
30:52
Speaker 2: It was too complicated. The same reason why Ken Burns
31:00
Speaker 2: I heard that he left her out of his story
31:03
Speaker 2: of the Suffragists Ourselves Alone. I think it's called on
31:09
Speaker 2: TV his documentary, because she was just too complicated. Because
31:15
Speaker 2: what happened was when she asked for the individual right,
31:20
Speaker 2: you know, to love who you wanted when you wanted.
31:24
Speaker 2: Then you know, she got this these two words free love.
31:29
Speaker 2: She was a free lover attached to her. You know,
31:33
Speaker 2: that's a whole nother story. That's one of the first
31:35
Speaker 2: things people say about, Oh she was a free lover.
31:38
Speaker 2: She believed you should have the freedom to love what
31:40
Speaker 2: you want. She didn't mean it didn't mean licentiousness. Some
31:43
Speaker 2: people were living in communes and they were trying that
31:46
Speaker 2: out a very small minority of people, you know, and
31:49
Speaker 2: they think, oh, they're all they all just want to
31:51
Speaker 2: upset the apple cart. Victoria believed in monogamy. She believed
31:55
Speaker 2: in loyalty and love. That was her you know, your
31:58
Speaker 2: relationship should be built on love. But she wasn't afraid
32:02
Speaker 2: to say it. And this is where she was ahead
32:03
Speaker 2: of her time because she would say things like, if
32:07
Speaker 2: you marry for money or you know, social status you
32:14
Speaker 2: are you are prostituting yourself.
32:18
Speaker 1: You see.
32:19
Speaker 2: So those kind of those kind of things were very.
32:22
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, it's interesting because we think of the
32:26
Speaker 1: expression free love associated with the sixties, Yes.
32:30
Speaker 2: You think of the sixties. To her, it was totally different.
32:33
Speaker 2: But people people like to say, oh, she was a
32:35
Speaker 2: free lover. She wanted. She wanted to love who. But
32:38
Speaker 2: you know, she wanted to love who she wanted. But
32:41
Speaker 2: when people said to her one time, are you a
32:43
Speaker 2: free lover? She said, yes, I am, and I have
32:45
Speaker 2: the right to love who I want, when I want,
32:47
Speaker 2: and neither you nor any government or law has any
32:50
Speaker 2: right to interfere. You see, she defined it right then
32:53
Speaker 2: and there. Of course, to her free lovement much more
32:56
Speaker 2: than that, but that was her answer. And then right
32:58
Speaker 2: away they say, oh, well, you know, she just wants
33:00
Speaker 2: to go and have sex all the time anytime she wants.
33:03
Speaker 1: You know, And that's what That's not what it was about.
33:06
Speaker 2: That's not what it was about at all.
33:07
Speaker 1: You know.
33:08
Speaker 2: Somebody yesterday said, I looked up He said to me,
33:12
Speaker 2: I was over at the playing tennis. Oh, I looked
33:16
Speaker 2: up your book. You know, your publisher does you no
33:19
Speaker 2: good saying she was a free lover. I'm saying, I
33:22
Speaker 2: don't think my publisher said that. Well, you must have
33:25
Speaker 2: said it. I said, no, it must be something you wrote.
33:27
Speaker 2: Then I said, no, I didn't say that, because I'm
33:29
Speaker 2: not going to say that until you read the book
33:31
Speaker 2: and understand what she meant by free love. Like I'm
33:34
Speaker 2: not just going to put those two words out there
33:36
Speaker 2: because that's what everybody wants to jump on. So why
33:38
Speaker 2: would I do that to myself? Well, I read it,
33:40
Speaker 2: I said, you must have been reading that, you know.
33:42
Speaker 2: It wasn't on my website. It wasn't on my publishers,
33:46
Speaker 2: you know. And then I said to him, let me
33:48
Speaker 2: ask you this. Do you believe that a woman has
33:51
Speaker 2: the right to divorce if she's in an abusive situation
33:55
Speaker 2: with her you know, with her husband? Well, well yeah,
33:58
Speaker 2: and I said, oh no, I said, said, you're a
34:00
Speaker 2: free lover.
34:01
Speaker 1: There you go, because because the free love that she
34:04
Speaker 1: was fighting for was the right to marry who you chose,
34:07
Speaker 1: the right to the force in a situation as you
34:09
Speaker 1: just described, and not to be compelled by family or
34:13
Speaker 1: anyone to marry someone you don't want to.
34:15
Speaker 2: Marry you don't want to, yes, And also not to
34:18
Speaker 2: have sexual relations in situations where it was not advisable.
34:25
Speaker 2: You know, she was she was very very strong on that.
34:28
Speaker 2: She did feel that her but she didn't know and
34:31
Speaker 2: explains in this book like that she you know, she
34:34
Speaker 2: she really thought that that her her child was deformed
34:38
Speaker 2: because she had cause. She says this in one of
34:41
Speaker 2: her speeches. I surrendered her maternal functions to a drunken man. Yes,
34:47
Speaker 2: so she was very careful about you know, don't just
34:51
Speaker 2: be careful the situations for uh, for relations should be
34:58
Speaker 2: based on love, not on lust or not on any
35:01
Speaker 2: kind of drunkenness. They should be they should be pure
35:04
Speaker 2: and loving, loving engagements, that's all, you know.
35:09
Speaker 1: And a couple a couple of other things that put
35:11
Speaker 1: her ahead of her time. She and her sister Tennessee
35:15
Speaker 1: Claflin were the first women to run a Wall Street
35:18
Speaker 1: brokerage house.
35:19
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that was exciting. Yeah. The day they I
35:23
Speaker 2: have this in the book too, the day they showed up.
35:26
Speaker 2: But they went. They knew how to get attention, that's
35:29
Speaker 2: for sure. So some people accused them of you know, sensationalism,
35:33
Speaker 2: but they said, you know, let's do it. They arrived
35:36
Speaker 2: in a carriage with white horses, you know, and they
35:39
Speaker 2: were they always dressed alike, but they had the gold
35:41
Speaker 2: pens behind the ear. They went into the office. They
35:43
Speaker 2: were like thousands showed up that day to see this.
35:46
Speaker 2: You know, you would think, oh, women couldn't do that,
35:48
Speaker 2: but they did it so boldly. They stepped out so
35:51
Speaker 2: boldly that everybody's like, I got to see this, you know,
35:54
Speaker 2: and there were police, like I think they had one
35:56
Speaker 2: hundred police, you know, keeping the crowds back and and
36:00
Speaker 2: on the on the day of the opening, you know,
36:03
Speaker 2: so they did.
36:05
Speaker 1: And you also, we talked about that. I didn't talk
36:08
Speaker 1: about this yet, but they were the first among the
36:10
Speaker 1: first women to found a newspaper in the United States,
36:13
Speaker 1: Woodhull and Clafland's Weekly, which began publication in eighteen seventy.
36:18
Speaker 1: How did they fare in that endeavor?
36:20
Speaker 2: They fared pretty well. They you know, they had advertising
36:25
Speaker 2: and people were interested, and they said that this was
36:27
Speaker 2: going to be you know, onward and upward and bringing
36:32
Speaker 2: new information to you know, to to the new world,
36:36
Speaker 2: and you know, and they did pretty well until one
36:46
Speaker 2: issue that they decided to publish and they published some
36:51
Speaker 2: information that they knew about a preacher and he didn't
36:56
Speaker 2: like He didn't like that, and so they found a way.
37:00
Speaker 2: There was also an article published about some you might
37:07
Speaker 2: almost go as far as saying trafficking young women, but anyway,
37:13
Speaker 2: a rape of a young girl at a French ball,
37:17
Speaker 2: and Tennessee told the story of that and she used
37:22
Speaker 2: the words they're actually biblical that he she talked about
37:26
Speaker 2: the trophy of virginity and she put that in the
37:30
Speaker 2: paper and they used that to arrest them for obscenity.
37:35
Speaker 2: So yeah, in eighteen seventy two they called it the
37:40
Speaker 2: scandal issue. Those papers were flying off the street. Usually
37:44
Speaker 2: a paper costs, but you know, a dime people were paying.
37:46
Speaker 2: The last people were somebody said forty dollars for a paper.
37:50
Speaker 2: I'll take it. They wanted that paper. So they were
37:53
Speaker 2: arrested and went to and put in jail, and they
37:56
Speaker 2: were in jail for a month over this, and then
38:01
Speaker 2: they got out got arrested again. That's my next volume,
38:06
Speaker 2: which is called Shattered, which covers the next four years.
38:10
Speaker 2: My first volume covered from like twenty years from the
38:13
Speaker 2: time she was like say, you know, thirteen to thirty three.
38:17
Speaker 2: This next volume is just four years, and it's about
38:20
Speaker 2: being hounded by the people that want to continue to
38:24
Speaker 2: try to bring her down. They knew she knew too
38:27
Speaker 2: much and they wanted they didn't want her to talk
38:29
Speaker 2: to try to silence her. It's not very similar to
38:31
Speaker 2: what the problems we have today trying to be you know,
38:35
Speaker 2: being silenced and how many times she's arrested. I have
38:38
Speaker 2: like a total of maybe ten eleven times. I have to,
38:41
Speaker 2: you know, look at my my notes there to see that.
38:45
Speaker 2: But so this is the second volume is you know,
38:48
Speaker 2: the dark Night of the soul. But then the third
38:50
Speaker 2: volume will be Victorious. She comes out of it and
38:55
Speaker 2: you know, manages. But it's exciting. I already wrote the
38:58
Speaker 2: first paragraph the second volume.
39:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, my guest is Kate danaher her book Unstoppable, the
39:07
Speaker 1: Victoria Woodhull Story. We'll be back with more after these
39:11
Speaker 1: words on the Own Times Radio network.
39:15
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41:42
Speaker 1: Back on Vox Novus. My guest this week, Kate Dan
41:45
Speaker 1: to her her new book, Unstoppable, The Victoria Woodhull Story. Kate,
41:52
Speaker 1: do you think that Victoria could get elected today and
41:57
Speaker 1: certainly not put in prison on election day?
42:00
Speaker 2: I know, can you believe? Yeah, they said that they
42:03
Speaker 2: wanted to do that, put her in jail on election day,
42:05
Speaker 2: just to show her. Yes, I think she could because
42:09
Speaker 2: what she's saying is not at all. Back back when
42:13
Speaker 2: she was talking, they'd say, oh, she wants this and
42:16
Speaker 2: that and all such other radicalisms. Well, she was only
42:19
Speaker 2: asking for you know, education for children, public education, free
42:24
Speaker 2: public education, labor reform, land redistribution, which might sound radical,
42:30
Speaker 2: but actually back then there were the government was in
42:33
Speaker 2: the railroad. People were taking up you know, big chunks
42:36
Speaker 2: of land for themselves and their railroads and not always
42:40
Speaker 2: taking care of the homesteaders that wanted to go out
42:42
Speaker 2: and buy themselves a few acres and things like that.
42:45
Speaker 2: So and she wanted more freedom for women, more opportunities
42:52
Speaker 2: for women. They shouldn't they shouldn't be forced to turn
42:55
Speaker 2: to prostitution or anything like that to survive. There should
43:00
Speaker 2: you know, So today she would sound very normal. She
43:04
Speaker 2: wouldn't even be very she wouldn't be like horrible. She'd
43:08
Speaker 2: be like what we'd consider a sort of center, you know,
43:13
Speaker 2: because she was not that radical. I mean, she didn't
43:16
Speaker 2: even like the idea of birth control. She thought, you know,
43:20
Speaker 2: everything should be She liked the whole idea of natural
43:23
Speaker 2: should have been a good Catholic, you know, in terms
43:25
Speaker 2: of the birth control idea, do it abstinence and and
43:29
Speaker 2: and timing, and yeah she was. She was didn't like
43:33
Speaker 2: you know, uh, artificial means of birth control. So she
43:38
Speaker 2: she's not that and she certainly wouldn't wouldn't like abortion.
43:42
Speaker 2: And you know, she wanted to avoid all that. We
43:44
Speaker 2: need to change all that so that women even don't
43:46
Speaker 2: even have to think about that, that they have control
43:49
Speaker 2: of their own their own bodies.
43:51
Speaker 1: So you believe her, you believe she was misunderstood.
43:53
Speaker 2: Then, Oh yeah, yes, mm hmm. I mean people were afraid.
43:58
Speaker 2: Are you get you know, you understand and you can
44:00
Speaker 2: understand what the fears would be. You know that, well,
44:04
Speaker 2: it's going to upset the upset the the family dynamic
44:09
Speaker 2: and men lose power. So you know they don't they
44:12
Speaker 2: don't want that to happen. Uh, it would be you know,
44:17
Speaker 2: I mean today they're even saying, oh, we women should
44:19
Speaker 2: go back. Some are saying go back into the kitchen.
44:22
Speaker 2: They don't need to vote. Their husbands can vote for them,
44:24
Speaker 2: do you know. So loosening divorce laws, that's one thing,
44:28
Speaker 2: and women's rights is overturning gender roles. So that that
44:33
Speaker 2: was a fear that people had. And then the big
44:35
Speaker 2: fear was of course the free love because it meant
44:39
Speaker 2: you know, they thought that that that she meant sexual
44:41
Speaker 2: license rather than what she you know, she what she meant,
44:45
Speaker 2: which was just not to be trapped in abusive marriages didn't.
44:49
Speaker 1: Absolutely what's your favorite what's your favorite part of her story?
44:53
Speaker 2: My favorite part of her story? Oh, oh my goodness,
44:58
Speaker 2: let's see. My favorite part of her story was I
45:06
Speaker 2: don't know, god, I loved every part of her story.
45:11
Speaker 1: You know, perhaps her courage at a time when a
45:13
Speaker 1: woman would have to be truly courageous to do what
45:15
Speaker 1: she did.
45:16
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, yeah, she just went up there and
45:20
Speaker 2: she said, oh well, she said, she did use this language.
45:24
Speaker 2: People would say maybe she was a little extreme, because
45:27
Speaker 2: but she, this woman who was many years her senior,
45:32
Speaker 2: Abbie Kelly Foster, who was also fighting for women's rights
45:38
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years before Victoria was, said we cannot be
45:41
Speaker 2: merely mouthed when it comes to these men. We have
45:43
Speaker 2: to use strong language. And so after a year of her,
45:48
Speaker 2: you know, waiting and waiting nothing, you know, the government's
45:52
Speaker 2: not coming through. They could easily have said declaratory act,
45:55
Speaker 2: you know, no, no, but they didn't. And she she
46:00
Speaker 2: about had it, you know, and she said, and she
46:03
Speaker 2: did have this what somebody called her great Secession speech.
46:07
Speaker 2: A friend of hers called it that I'm calling this year,
46:09
Speaker 2: and that's been known as that where she said, if
46:11
Speaker 2: we don't get what we're asking for, I'll give you
46:14
Speaker 2: one year. If we don't get it, then you can
46:18
Speaker 2: count on this. We mean, you know, we are going
46:21
Speaker 2: to revolt, and we mean secession, we mean revolution, you know.
46:27
Speaker 2: So she used those words, but really she meant that
46:30
Speaker 2: she I don't think we're going to take up arms
46:32
Speaker 2: and actually secede from the union. But you know, it
46:36
Speaker 2: was her strong language. But she was very you know, disappointed,
46:43
Speaker 2: and she did say that she said this to Grant. Well,
46:49
Speaker 2: I don't know she actually said it to Grant. She
46:51
Speaker 2: did meet Grant, but she did. She did make it
46:53
Speaker 2: clear that she was going to she was going to
46:57
Speaker 2: Sue basically to say the election this is funny because
47:02
Speaker 2: of it's not really funny, it's kind of sad, but
47:05
Speaker 2: like just the same thing, we have election fraud. She
47:08
Speaker 2: was going to say, there was election fraud basically because
47:11
Speaker 2: half of the country has is disenfranchised and we deserve
47:17
Speaker 2: the vote and we didn't get the vote. So uh
47:20
Speaker 2: this I have a scene where she's that was the
47:24
Speaker 2: funny where she says to Grant, just be prepared. You know,
47:27
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna chot. I'm gonna say your election
47:29
Speaker 2: when you win, your election is is is illegitimate? And
47:35
Speaker 2: he kind of laughs, and the scene I have yasas,
47:37
Speaker 2: oh yes, but Victoria and then this part, according to
47:41
Speaker 2: her notes which her daughter kept, Grant said to her, Victoria,
47:47
Speaker 2: someday you will occupy this chair.
47:49
Speaker 3: Wow.
47:50
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's in her notes.
47:52
Speaker 1: So wow, I didn't I didn't.
47:54
Speaker 2: Know that, wonder Yeah yeah yeah.
47:56
Speaker 1: So how many other how many other women have run
48:00
Speaker 1: for president since eighteen seventy two?
48:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh that have tried? One count is like
48:07
Speaker 2: over one hundred that have actually tried to run. Now
48:10
Speaker 2: you have to count, like these are wonderful women that
48:13
Speaker 2: have tried, like you know, Amy Klovichar and Elizabeth Warren
48:17
Speaker 2: and Kameron, Hillary and you know, all the people that
48:22
Speaker 2: I can remember that debate, you know, back then there
48:24
Speaker 2: were so many women up there talking. I remember Mary
48:28
Speaker 2: and Williamson even you know, trying to you know, trying.
48:34
Speaker 2: So a lot a lot have tried. But it's interesting
48:37
Speaker 2: that we I don't know if it's our country or
48:41
Speaker 2: what why they can't. I don't know.
48:44
Speaker 1: Is there a commonality that they all share with Victoria?
48:50
Speaker 2: Well, I guess they would like to have a women's
48:52
Speaker 2: a woman's voice in the you know, because they see
48:56
Speaker 2: it as a different kind of voice and a different
48:58
Speaker 2: kind of steadiness. I'd say that they that they probably want,
49:02
Speaker 2: you know, I'd have to look through all those hundred names,
49:05
Speaker 2: you know, and see. But they did follow certainly the
49:08
Speaker 2: early ones followed in, you know, in her footsteps, wanting,
49:13
Speaker 2: wanting that freedom.
49:14
Speaker 1: We're going to fight.
49:15
Speaker 2: We don't have it, we have to get it. You
49:16
Speaker 2: have Belva Lockwood back then, and Victoria was at a
49:20
Speaker 2: dinner with bell the Lockwood and you know, it's talking.
49:23
Speaker 2: So they they carried on. And as I mentioned this,
49:27
Speaker 2: Abby Kelly Foster, she said, you young people, you have
49:29
Speaker 2: to carry it on. They were, they were really passing
49:32
Speaker 2: the torch. You Victoria, you Velva, you have to do this.
49:36
Speaker 2: So each I think that each one has kind of
49:38
Speaker 2: passed the torch like the Olympic, you know. So, and
49:44
Speaker 2: it still is. Well, I'm glad that they finally got
49:47
Speaker 2: the boat because yeah, it's actually called quo warranto. It's
49:51
Speaker 2: a you could she was going to file that, which is,
49:54
Speaker 2: you know, by what right do you hold this office?
49:56
Speaker 2: You didn't include half the country?
49:58
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you think do you think that the US
50:02
Speaker 1: will elect a woman as president one day? Soon?
50:05
Speaker 9: Oh?
50:07
Speaker 2: I would like to see it. I don't know. It
50:13
Speaker 2: seems like we drag our feet on that. You look around,
50:16
Speaker 2: you've got all you know, in Britain and India and
50:18
Speaker 2: all kinds of women leaders. I would like to believe it,
50:25
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I'm a little you know, I'm
50:28
Speaker 2: feeling very.
50:33
Speaker 1: Curious what you and I are of the same generation. Basically,
50:37
Speaker 1: I think within our lifetime that remains we will see
50:41
Speaker 1: this happen.
50:42
Speaker 2: Oh that would be good. I would like to believe
50:44
Speaker 2: that too, I really would. We're so close, you know,
50:47
Speaker 2: so close to it, because you know, they're running. And
50:51
Speaker 2: if we can just get a hold of talking about
50:53
Speaker 2: misinformation that was thrown out about Victoria, this misinformation all
50:57
Speaker 2: over people jumping on I you know, on soundbites and
51:02
Speaker 2: drawing conclusions without the evidence. You know, Oh this, oh that,
51:08
Speaker 2: Oh Hillary and her emails, and you know, let's you know,
51:12
Speaker 2: look more deep, let's look at the issues. What do
51:14
Speaker 2: we want here? What do we want out of our leaders?
51:17
Speaker 2: And look more deeply and see more clearly. Oh there's
51:22
Speaker 2: the Irish saying, you know, look within and see behind,
51:26
Speaker 2: know the heart and read the mind. You know.
51:29
Speaker 1: So, with all of the current efforts to disempower women
51:34
Speaker 1: by the current administration in Congress, do you think that
51:37
Speaker 1: Victoria's life and example can inspire a new movement? Oh?
51:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think just if women would read this and
51:46
Speaker 2: men too, because I've had men male readers and they
51:49
Speaker 2: really like it because it's it's all set. I trickle
51:53
Speaker 2: it with when I say, I sprinkle it with history,
51:55
Speaker 2: but or I weave history in everything that happens to
51:59
Speaker 2: Victoria happening during a time when this happened, or oh
52:03
Speaker 2: yesterday was was the Gettysburg address? Or this or that?
52:07
Speaker 2: All that is woven in, so you see her acting
52:11
Speaker 2: within her time period, you know. And what was your question?
52:15
Speaker 2: Here we go, I'm like.
52:16
Speaker 1: That's inspiring the new movement?
52:18
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, men and women, I think yes,
52:22
Speaker 2: it could. If you look at that that she she
52:24
Speaker 2: she worked and she believed it. I think it definitely
52:27
Speaker 2: can inspire people. She inspires me, you know, to do
52:32
Speaker 2: to speak up and you know, make my voice heard
52:36
Speaker 2: as much as I can in ways that I can.
52:38
Speaker 2: I think she did it so I can do it,
52:40
Speaker 2: and I should do it because our issues are the
52:43
Speaker 2: issues that she's you know that she faced there still
52:46
Speaker 2: with us, you know, I really do. And I think
52:49
Speaker 2: that somebody asked me once, what do you think she
52:52
Speaker 2: would say to you if she saw you today? And
52:55
Speaker 2: I said, I think she'd say thank you.
52:56
Speaker 1: Kate here you go, what would you like read? What
53:00
Speaker 1: would you like your readers to take away from Unstoppable
53:03
Speaker 1: The Victoria Woodhull story.
53:05
Speaker 2: I would like them to take away a really good
53:08
Speaker 2: experience that they enjoyed learning about her life. And so
53:12
Speaker 2: far with my reviews, people seem to say that I
53:15
Speaker 2: see that, and I'm thinking, thank God, because it's hard
53:17
Speaker 2: to get perspective on your own work. But people say
53:20
Speaker 2: it was an enjoyable read and an easy read, even
53:23
Speaker 2: though it's a little bit on you know, longish book.
53:25
Speaker 1: It's not.
53:26
Speaker 2: It's just over four hundred, but it's it's not a
53:31
Speaker 2: small print, and it's not dense. There's a lot of
53:33
Speaker 2: white space and sections are small, so it's easy read.
53:36
Speaker 2: You could do ten pages a night and say, oh, yeah,
53:39
Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to like, oh the end
53:41
Speaker 2: of the chapter. I just want to get to it.
53:42
Speaker 2: So I think that they would take away a joyful experience.
53:47
Speaker 2: And I say joyful because even though she struggles, she
53:52
Speaker 2: continues to work and to fight for it. Even though
53:58
Speaker 2: she's got all kinds of family issues, political issues, you know,
54:03
Speaker 2: people that let her down, she's still she's still in Unstoppable,
54:09
Speaker 2: She's still going on. I love I love the ending.
54:12
Speaker 2: I love it what she did and that's all true,
54:14
Speaker 2: what she did in her last speech. It's really exciting.
54:18
Speaker 1: My guest, Kate Danaher her new book, Unstoppable, The Victoria
54:23
Speaker 1: Woodhall Story. Kate, one more time, please share with our
54:26
Speaker 1: listeners where they can get your book and find out
54:28
Speaker 1: more about you and your wonderful work.
54:30
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. Yes. My my website is Kate danaher
54:36
Speaker 2: dot com and on there you can go. You can
54:39
Speaker 2: you can find where to buy the books, and my
54:42
Speaker 2: son in law is putting up a tab where you
54:46
Speaker 2: can read and review. Right now, I have where you
54:49
Speaker 2: can read the book, where you can buy it, but
54:52
Speaker 2: I'm going to put in where you can review it
54:53
Speaker 2: because I want to ask you this all. Anybody who
54:56
Speaker 2: picks this book up, and I hope you tell all
54:58
Speaker 2: your friends about it, please leave a review. Because I'm
55:02
Speaker 2: a debut author and in my latter years of life,
55:06
Speaker 2: I hope I have some more years because I have
55:09
Speaker 2: the two more volumes to write. But do need reviews
55:12
Speaker 2: to get awareness of Victoria's story, because if I only
55:16
Speaker 2: have a few people say well, maybe it's not good.
55:18
Speaker 2: But if a lot of people are reading it, then
55:20
Speaker 2: they'll say, oh, it looks like other people are reading this,
55:22
Speaker 2: I should read it. And then that brings awareness to
55:24
Speaker 2: Victoria's story. She was the first woman to run for president.
55:28
Speaker 2: She deserves a truer story to be told, and I
55:31
Speaker 2: do have. I should plug myself here advance praise from
55:35
Speaker 2: a Polster Prize finalist and Victoria Woodhall biography that says
55:40
Speaker 2: that this is the true Victoria. You know, after a century,
55:45
Speaker 2: it is and she is a revelation and an inspiration.
55:48
Speaker 2: So that's said by a Victoria Woodhole biographer, and I'm
55:51
Speaker 2: very happy about that. And I'm also very happy that
55:54
Speaker 2: I'm that I've been invited to speak at the National
55:59
Speaker 2: Women's Hall of Fame next year because people recognize that
56:02
Speaker 2: her story needs to be heard. So please visit. Oh
56:05
Speaker 2: and look up that there's a nice, a nice little
56:07
Speaker 2: trailer like one minute video on Kate danaher dot com.
56:11
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
56:15
Speaker 2: Have a wonderful day everyone.
56:17
Speaker 1: Kate, thank you so much for joining us and being
56:19
Speaker 1: an inspiration to all of our listeners. I'm Victor the
56:22
Speaker 1: Voice Furman. Have a wonderful week.