Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2489 - Ryan Bingham

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Joe Rogan Experience _2489 - Ryan Bingham · NO FILTER

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.
• 0:08
  What's happening, man?
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Good to.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: See you. Yeah, you too, man. Hold on to that microphone, sir.
• 0:17
  All right. You were fucking great at that McConaughey thing
• 0:22
  last year. I really enjoyed that. That was my first
• 0:24
  time seeing you perform live. It was really cool. Thank you, man.
• 0:27
  It was very cool. You're so relaxed up there, man.
• 0:30
  So it was like you brought everybody into a nice...
• 0:33
  like comfortable chill vibe it.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Was cool i'm glad you guys felt felt that way
• 0:38
  sometimes it's uh it takes me a minute to get
• 0:41
  into the groove you know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah but it felt like that you know it felt
• 0:44
  like you were in it like it brought us brought
• 0:46
  the whole crowd into it too that that event that
• 0:48
  he does the two events the one the singer songwriter
• 0:52
  one and then the other one with the auction and
• 0:53
  everything they're so cool such good events.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah they're good people too you know that's uh i
• 0:59
  uh I've really grown to just appreciate the community around
• 1:02
  here in Austin and the Hill Country area and all
• 1:04
  of that stuff.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I definitely.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't have the career, I don't think, if it wouldn't
• 1:09
  have been for the community around here, just supporting songwriters
• 1:12
  and music in the way that they do. It's pretty incredible.
• 1:15
  When they get behind anything, it just feels so good
• 1:18
  to see that many people come together and have that support.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: It's a really good place, man. Austin is a really
• 1:25
  good community. It really is. It's a very positive place.
• 1:28
  In a lot of ways. Yeah. I mean, nothing's perfect.
• 1:31
  There's no perfect places, but it's really good. Yeah. I
• 1:34
  like it so much better than when I was living
• 1:36
  in California. It just feels like real people.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I miss it, man. I mean, I'm in the process
• 1:43
  of moving back to Texas as well.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Where are you at right now?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Outside of Dallas, Texas, out by Tyler.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I've been in Topanga Canyon in L.A.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: For years. Oh, Jesus.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You know, so I've been in the middle of it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Doing that Hollywood thing.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Every time I get across the state line, it's just
• 1:59
  like that weight comes off. And you're just like, oh, man,
• 2:02
  I'm home, you know. So, yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Dude, you had the coolest fucking character on Yellowstone. It
• 2:08
  must be so fun to play.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: It was so much fun, man. I laughed. I always
• 2:14
  talk about it. I felt like I had, like, one
• 2:15
  of the easiest jobs there, you know. It's because my.
• 2:18
  The character was kind of a smaller role. You know,
• 2:20
  most of the time I'd work like one or two
• 2:22
  days a week. And then the rest of the time
• 2:24
  I'd just be like fly fishing and get lost in
• 2:26
  the mountains and just disappear out there. Yeah, it was awesome.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: God, Montana's awesome. That show made so many people move
• 2:32
  out there, though. I know.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: You're going to take your license plate off your car
• 2:36
  before you go.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Right. You better not have a California plate. Better not.
• 2:40
  They will fucking write things on your hood.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Run you off the road.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they get upset. It's very interesting. They're very proud
• 2:46
  to be from Montana, and they want to keep it
• 2:49
  to themselves. Like, let it go, motherfucker. We're all Americans,
• 2:52
  all right? If you got a good spot, you should
• 2:54
  be happy that people from California figure it out. Don't
• 2:57
  be a dick. Like, you're American, bitch. It's not the
• 3:01
  United States of Montana. Shut the fuck up.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of anywhere, right?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Not that much here. Here's pretty inviting. I've never had
• 3:10
  that experience here. Not really.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Texas is a pretty friendly place.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And there's so many different walks of life that have
• 3:18
  been here for so long. I think up there in
• 3:21
  Montana and stuff, man, if you were tough enough to
• 3:23
  survive those winters and stake a claim up there back
• 3:26
  in the day, you had to fight for it, and
• 3:27
  they're still fighting for it now.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: That does make sense. I mean, and that's also one
• 3:31
  of the things that's highlighted by the whole series, all
• 3:34
  the different Yellowstone series, the older ones with Harrison Ford.
• 3:39
  They really do explain in a lot. I mean, it's
• 3:41
  kind of... a cool chunk of history to see like
• 3:45
  how this all got started, how the kind of people
• 3:47
  that had to survive out there when, you know, all
• 3:51
  you had is a fireplace.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That's it. You got a fireplace.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I love all those mountain men stories, you know, Jim
• 3:57
  Bridger and all that stuff. It's just like, man. And
• 4:00
  there is something, you get up there in those mountains,
• 4:02
  it gets into your bones, it gets into your blood
• 4:06
  and it's a, it's a different thing, man. It's a
• 4:09
  spiritual place.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: It is. And it's also, it's like, the most potent
• 4:14
  art like it's it's nature's art and you don't think
• 4:18
  of it as art but god it's so beautiful it's
• 4:22
  like stunt like sometimes when you're up there you just
• 4:24
  have to stop and look like god this is gorgeous.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: And it's overwhelming if you it has a.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It gives you a feeling there's like it's a almost
• 4:33
  like a drug that hits you because of the beauty
• 4:36
  of it all like you take it in with the
• 4:37
  blue sky you see the clouds and the mountain and
• 4:40
  maybe there's a lake below you in the canyon you're
• 4:42
  like God, this is gorgeous. It's like you feel it
• 4:46
  in your DNA, man. It's like your body knows like
• 4:51
  this is a fertile, beautiful place that's filled with life.
• 4:55
  And this should excite you. So all your natural human
• 4:58
  reward instincts are all like this is the place I
• 5:01
  should be. Like look at the sky. Look at the lake.
• 5:05
  Look at the mountains. This is fertile. This is like life-giving. Yeah.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, several years ago. um I went to a guide
• 5:12
  school up there like a hunting guide school and uh
• 5:17
  it was a whole pack squad part of it I
• 5:19
  grew up cowboying and ranching but I've never really been
• 5:21
  up there in those mountains like that and I'm my
• 5:24
  dad would always fantasize about that we'd talk you know
• 5:26
  one day we're gonna go on like a pack trip
• 5:28
  up in Montana and you know we'd watch all those
• 5:30
  movies like Lonesome Dove and all of that stuff so
• 5:32
  it was always just kind of a daydream and um
• 5:36
  Years ago, I was just kind of overwhelmed with music
• 5:38
  stuff and all that and didn't know what I was
• 5:40
  going to do. And I ended up, I just wanted
• 5:42
  to go up there for a trip, you know, maybe
• 5:43
  go on a pack trip. And I started looking up
• 5:46
  places and I found this place called Royal Tyne Outfitters.
• 5:50
  And they're like, yeah, you know, we come up and
• 5:51
  you can take you on a pack trip. But we
• 5:54
  also have like this six-week school, you know, that you
• 5:57
  can train to be a guide. It's all mule pack
• 6:01
  and all kinds of stuff, you know. And so I
• 6:03
  was like, man, I'm going to sign up for that,
• 6:04
  you know. And it was... Life-changing. There was only six
• 6:07
  of us in the class. And, you know, spent weeks
• 6:11
  back in the back country packing mules and horses.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: We'd just tie a rope between two trees with a
• 6:17
  tarp for sleeping at night and always post up a
• 6:19
  couple of guys to watch over the horses at night.
• 6:22
  And I remember one morning I woke up, and it
• 6:24
  was in June, you know, but we were way back
• 6:26
  in there. And I woke up and the snow was
• 6:28
  coming down. And I just kind of raised my head
• 6:31
  up and I was looking out at the horses and
• 6:33
  the snow was just falling down on their backs. And
• 6:36
  there was that moment in me, I was like, I
• 6:38
  don't know if I'm ever going back. I was like,
• 6:42
  this is right where I need to be. It was
• 6:46
  tough to come back to civilization after that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I think we're doing something with ourselves, to ourselves, with
• 6:54
  civilization that we can't really fully appreciate because we're wrapped
• 6:59
  in it. And it's not until you get to nature
• 7:01
  where all that weight just gets lifted off of you
• 7:03
  and you feel more normal. And you're like, oh, this
• 7:07
  is where people are supposed to be.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, no phones. There's no nothing, no distractions.
• 7:12
  And it's just like all your senses heightened, your eyesight,
• 7:16
  your hearing, your sense of smell, like all of that stuff. And,
• 7:21
  you know, I remember going into it. You know, I
• 7:22
  didn't know what to expect, really. I've done some camping
• 7:25
  and things like that and grew up ranching and all that.
• 7:28
  But this was a way different deal. And I remember
• 7:30
  I just had this, like, backpack full of gear, you know.
• 7:33
  And by the time I got out of there, I
• 7:36
  just felt like all I needed was a pair of
• 7:37
  scissors and some way to start some fire, and that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Was about it. Yeah, I follow this one dude. God,
• 7:47
  I'm trying to remember his name. Clay... Let me pull
• 7:51
  it up, because I really enjoy his videos. But this dude,
• 7:57
  he lives... I believe he lives in Alaska, but he
• 8:00
  does a lot of trips in America, like all over America,
• 8:03
  in the lower 48, and he... goes and, like, lives
• 8:08
  by himself in some kind of harsh environment. Like, he's
• 8:12
  done it in the swamps. Clay A's. That's it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Does he, like, take his kid out there?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I believe he has. He's taken his dog. But a
• 8:22
  lot of times he just goes entirely by himself. And
• 8:27
  they're very, very interesting. Like, he starts his own fire.
• 8:30
  He'll figure out how to get food. He figures out
• 8:33
  how to purify water. He's taken salt water and made
• 8:36
  his own thing that kind of distills it into fresh
• 8:39
  water and removes the salt, like, very slowly by using
• 8:43
  a piece of bamboo and fire and boiling the water
• 8:47
  in the bamboo so that, like, the water evaporates and
• 8:50
  then drips down and it doesn't have salt in it, apparently.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that stuff.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, just to have those skills, just to know
• 8:56
  how to do it, like, whether you'll ever need it
• 8:58
  or not just to know how to do that. It's
• 9:00
  just so cool. I remember, um, in that, that guide school,
• 9:04
  there's a lot of different parts to it, which was
• 9:06
  so cool. It was like, we did a whole week
• 9:08
  of like back country, um, like wilderness first aid, you know,
• 9:12
  he had got, had a paramedic come in and teach
• 9:14
  us all this stuff. And then it was a whole
• 9:16
  week of just like leather work. There was a whole
• 9:18
  week of shoe and horses. There was a fly fishing
• 9:21
  and entomology and all these, this kind of little skills.
• 9:24
  But one thing that really stuck with me was, uh,
• 9:28
  a fire building kind of drill when we started. It
• 9:31
  was kind of right when we first got there, and
• 9:32
  it was pretty wet, and it had been snowing, and
• 9:35
  there's only six of us, you know, and we're guys
• 9:37
  from kind of all over the country. And I grew
• 9:39
  up in New Mexico and West Texas where it's pretty dry,
• 9:42
  you know, and you kind of build a fire. You
• 9:44
  can kind of just take some little small twigs and
• 9:46
  get a little fire going, you know. So he goes,
• 9:49
  all right, you've got two minutes to build a fire,
• 9:51
  and you need to have, you know, like a flame
• 9:52
  to be three or four feet high. And, man, I'm
• 9:55
  running around grabbing, little sticks and twigs and we have
• 9:58
  a lighter too. I'm just struggling. It's just smoking. I
• 10:02
  look over and there's a kid from Alaska in the
• 10:05
  class and he just runs over to this big dead
• 10:08
  pine tree and just breaks off the biggest branch of
• 10:13
  dead pine needles and takes his lighter and just within
• 10:17
  like five seconds has this massive fire going on. I
• 10:20
  was like, okay, that's how you do that, you know?
• 10:23
  And it was so, just the littlest things, you know,
• 10:25
  to have that knowledge, you know? And part of it was,
• 10:28
  you know, he was explaining to us, the instructor, he's like, yeah,
• 10:30
  you know, if you're out here with your guide and
• 10:32
  somebody that's hunting, maybe he's an elderly guy or somebody
• 10:35
  gets hurt and, you get caught back in the mountains
• 10:37
  and it's snowing. It's like, you better get a fire
• 10:39
  going and keep them warm.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Real quick, you know?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: So it was always a, you know, a reason and
• 10:43
  a purpose behind it, which was really cool. And, um,
• 10:46
  I'll never, those are some, some of the things I'll,
• 10:48
  I'll never forget.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Did they teach how to start fires with like a
• 10:52
  piece of metal and like flint? Like, you know, what
• 10:55
  is that? A striking rod? Yeah, we did some.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Flint stuff and with, um, like the pitch wood from
• 11:00
  some of the old pine trees, you know, you can
• 11:02
  find that pitch wood. And, uh, we did some, Bow
• 11:05
  and wood drills, not a whole lot.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: That fucking shit is hard. That's hard.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So hard.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I did that in the Boy Scouts, and it took
• 11:13
  like hours to start a fire. You have to fucking
• 11:16
  keep sawing. And if you're doing it with your hand,
• 11:19
  you're going to blow your hands out. You better get
• 11:21
  a bow.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Get your technique down. You've got to.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Have the stick on the top and the stick that
• 11:27
  goes all the way to the base thing, and you
• 11:28
  cut a little hole in the base thing. So that, like,
• 11:31
  all the little embers can fall into your kindling, and
• 11:34
  you got to saw the shit out of that fucker.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And imagine trying to do that, you know, in the snow,
• 11:38
  or it's wet.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, man, that's just incredible.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Very, very unlikely. You know what's really good for kindling? Fritos.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Those chips?
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: All the oil that's in it?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: It's kind of shocking. Yeah. We were in Alaska, and
• 11:53
  it was raining all the time, and there was one
• 11:55
  day where it stopped. I was with my friend Steve
• 11:57
  Rinella took me up there. Okay, yeah. My friend Brian Cowan.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Ryan Callahan, all these guys. So we went up there,
• 12:04
  and when we got one day, like a 10-hour stretch
• 12:08
  where it was not raining, we're like, we got to
• 12:10
  start a fucking fire. Because it was raining every day
• 12:13
  for like five days in a row. And we couldn't
• 12:16
  find any deer. It was a nightmare. It was tough hunting. Yeah.
• 12:19
  So this one day, and we were trying to figure
• 12:22
  out things to light on fire because everything's soaking wet.
• 12:25
  And so we got some pieces of wood from, like,
• 12:28
  underneath the bottom of trees and shit and dead trees
• 12:32
  that were covered by other things that were kind of,
• 12:34
  sort of, a little bit dry. And we used Fritos.
• 12:37
  And Fritos, when you light them, man, it's crazy how
• 12:41
  much oil is in those things. Yeah. They just... And
• 12:44
  they stay lit for a long time, like a candle.
• 12:47
  And so we started like piling little things. And when
• 12:49
  we got that fire, I was like the happiest I've
• 12:51
  ever been in my life.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Soaking wet. Once you get that kind of cold too,
• 12:57
  it's just like, there's almost, you know, nothing to get
• 12:59
  you warm.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that bad cold wise. It was like in
• 13:02
  the fifties or sixties.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: It was just the wetness. The wetness was impossible to
• 13:07
  get away from. I thought once you get in your tent,
• 13:09
  you'd be dry. You get in your sleeping bag, you'd
• 13:12
  be dry. But, I had to take a piss in
• 13:13
  the middle of the night, and I had to turn
• 13:14
  on my headlamp in the tent. And what I did,
• 13:16
  it was all just mist everywhere. It was moisture. And
• 13:21
  I was like, oh, my God, I'm never going to
• 13:23
  be dry. I had to just accept, like, there's no
• 13:25
  drying here.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: How long were you guys back in there?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: About six days. We had to leave. We were supposed
• 13:31
  to be there for seven, but we had to leave
• 13:33
  on the sixth day because a storm was coming in.
• 13:34
  I was like, I could get stuck. Because you can
• 13:36
  get stuck up there. We were on, I guess, Prince Edwards.
• 13:39
  Is that what the island is? Yeah, you get stuck
• 13:43
  up there. And I was like, I got to get
• 13:44
  back home. I got to work.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Did y'all get to fly in like on a little
• 13:46
  bush plane?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: On a puddle jumper.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we landed in the pond. So they had certain
• 13:50
  windows to get you in and out of there, huh?
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you could drink right out of the pond.
• 13:55
  Like the pond was all rainwater and it was too
• 13:57
  high for beavers. So you didn't have to worry about
• 14:00
  giardia or anything in the water. You could just drink
• 14:02
  right out of the pond. Like this is crazy. Yeah,
• 14:04
  it's the best.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I've never been. I've been to Alaska only like in
• 14:07
  the winter on a skiing thing. But I've always wanted
• 14:09
  to go up there to hunt and fish and The.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: People are extraordinary. Those are rugged people.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Like, when I did a gig with my friend Ari
• 14:18
  in Anchorage, and one of the things, and it was
• 14:20
  weird because you get there, it's 11 p.m., it's bright out. Like,
• 14:23
  this is weird. One of the things that we talked
• 14:25
  about after was, like, those people were fucking cool. Like,
• 14:28
  there's something about living up there, like. Where you could
• 14:32
  die going outside like a good six months out of
• 14:35
  the year. There's fucking bears everywhere. If you look sideways
• 14:41
  at a moose, it'll stomp you to death in a
• 14:43
  fucking Walmart parking lot.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You better have your shit together.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: You better have your shit together. There's bald eagles everywhere.
• 14:50
  The salmon are as big as your thigh.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: The people there, they work together. They're very friendly, but
• 15:00
  they're very rugged. But they're also like they realize you
• 15:04
  need each other. Like there's a sense of like community
• 15:07
  and coolness. Yeah. You need each other. If your fucking
• 15:10
  car breaks down on the side of the road, you
• 15:12
  could die. Like someone's not going to let you die.
• 15:14
  They're going to pull over. In California, they're like someone
• 15:17
  will get them. They just keep driving. So you just
• 15:20
  lose this sense of community.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not calling. That's who you're calling for help
• 15:24
  in times of need is your neighbor. Exactly. I mean,
• 15:26
  even if, like, the bridge washes out, it's like here
• 15:29
  comes your neighbor with the backhoe and the tractor and, like,
• 15:31
  you just do it yourselves.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And that makes a cool friendship when your friend helps
• 15:36
  you out or when you help your friend out.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: That's what I miss about living in Texas, too. You know,
• 15:40
  it's just, like, some of the small things or whatever
• 15:43
  that you, like, Even up at my place in Topanga,
• 15:47
  you know, you want to build some fence or whatever.
• 15:49
  I do. I feel lucky. I've got a couple of
• 15:51
  really good friends up there and neighbors that, you know,
• 15:53
  love to come, you know, work with their hands and
• 15:56
  get their hands dirty and we'll build stuff. And like, man,
• 15:58
  in Texas, you want to like weld something or you
• 16:01
  need something with a tractor, some heavy equipment thing, you know,
• 16:04
  like you're not getting that done in California. Right. It's
• 16:07
  going to cost you a fortune to, you know, get
• 16:09
  someone with it. skid steer up to your house to
• 16:12
  help you move some dirt around you know but here
• 16:13
  in Texas it's like oh man just call Frank down
• 16:16
  the road he's got.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: One there's people that have a long tradition of doing
• 16:22
  stuff you know it's like.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: It's a real place I grew up like that too
• 16:29
  you know people cutting hay and stuff like that especially
• 16:31
  when you're young like man we would go stack hay
• 16:34
  for everybody around you know it's like that was the
• 16:37
  summer job you know it's like let's just go.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: That makes a strong person. People that throw hay around,
• 16:44
  those are strong mother, like that term, like farmer strength,
• 16:48
  that shit's real.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You better say I was always a little guy too.
• 16:51
  So I had to use some, learn how to use
• 16:52
  leverage real quick. Roll those bells up on your knee.
• 16:55
  I think one of the last times I did that,
• 16:57
  I remember is, uh, I was going to school in Stephenville,
• 17:00
  Texas and had a good friend over in Glen Rose
• 17:03
  and it was the middle of July. And And he's
• 17:05
  an older man and asked us to come help him
• 17:07
  stack hay in his barn. And we're stacking it in
• 17:10
  the barn. And it's just like you're inside the barn.
• 17:13
  It's just hot. It could have been 110 degrees in there.
• 17:16
  We're talking hundreds of bales of hay. And it was
• 17:18
  just all we could do. And, of course, we're hungover.
• 17:20
  We're in college. We're stacking hay. And I was like,
• 17:24
  I think this is my last hay hauling job right now.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those jobs. Those are good for letting you know
• 17:30
  that this is not the life you want. Yeah. Like,
• 17:32
  get a good, rugged manual labor job. It'll knock some
• 17:35
  fucking sense into you.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That's why I got the guitar, man. I learned pretty
• 17:38
  quick that the guitar felt a lot better in my
• 17:40
  hands than that shovel did. Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I know that feeling. I spent one summer doing insulation
• 17:47
  in an attic. It was all that fiberglass insulation. I
• 17:51
  had it in all my skin.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: In your nose, in your eyes.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're sweating because it's hot. It's the summer, so
• 17:57
  it's getting into your pores. And you're always itchy. You
• 18:01
  feel like it's on you all the time. Also, it's
• 18:03
  got to be terrible to be breathing that shit in. Oh,
• 18:06
  the worst, yeah. And I don't even think we were
• 18:09
  using equipment. I don't think we used any safety equipment.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Heck no, you didn't have a mask on or anything.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I don't believe so. I think we just installed it,
• 18:16
  just unrolled that shit, stuffed it into the... Into the rafters.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Using paint with lead in it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: And back then, the gasoline had lead, too.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So drinking out of the water hose.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, yeah. I think it makes a resilient person
• 18:33
  to drink out of water hoses. Heck, yeah.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You get tough or die.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You get extra minerals from the fucking copper on the faucet. Yeah,
• 18:45
  those jobs are really important for a young person to
• 18:48
  figure out what they don't want to do. It teaches
• 18:51
  you work ethic, teaches you like, hey, you can get
• 18:55
  some satisfaction out of a hard day's work and a
• 18:58
  hard week. You did it. You put it in. You
• 19:00
  feel good about yourself. You know it was difficult to do,
• 19:03
  but don't keep doing that. Yeah. Figure out a way
• 19:07
  out of this. Yeah. You got to understand it. You
• 19:10
  understand it. You got to feel for it. You know
• 19:13
  what hard labor is, but don't ruin your life.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel real grateful. My granddad was always a
• 19:20
  real hard worker, and even when I was 12 and 13,
• 19:23
  you know, in the summers, I spent a lot of
• 19:25
  time living with him, and he always had a job
• 19:28
  lined up for me. You know, it's like, hey, you're
• 19:30
  going to go over here, and we're going to mow
• 19:32
  so-and-so's lawn this morning, and we're going to go over here,
• 19:34
  and we're going to. send you out to Ken's and
• 19:36
  you're going to build some fence this weekend. And I
• 19:40
  always enjoyed it, though. I enjoyed those guys. I was
• 19:42
  around and, you know, I'd work all day and then
• 19:45
  we'd sit around and they'd drink beer in the afternoon
• 19:48
  and tell me stories. And, you know, even now, like,
• 19:52
  I'm on my own place, you know. It's like I
• 19:53
  don't want to be building somebody else's fence, but I'm
• 19:56
  glad I know how to build my own, you know,
• 19:58
  or things like that and have those skills. I still
• 20:00
  love working around the house and doing little projects and
• 20:03
  things like that. I meet a lot of younger guys
• 20:05
  and kids that sometimes I– I guess I have an
• 20:10
  expectation that they know how to do that kind of stuff,
• 20:12
  you know? Right. They want to come over to the
• 20:14
  house and help us in projects and stuff. And I'm like, oh, yeah, cool.
• 20:18
  We'll just, you know, I already dug those holes and
• 20:21
  set up a string line and we'll set these posts.
• 20:23
  And they're like, okay. And then after about a half hour,
• 20:26
  I look over and they're just kind of looking at
• 20:27
  the ground. I'm like, what are we doing here? You know,
• 20:31
  they're like, I don't have a clue what you want
• 20:33
  me to do.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious. That's hilarious.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: But... Yeah, it's wild. It's changed, man. Kids ain't out
• 20:43
  there mowing lawns no more, that's for sure.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: No. Well, there's something about that kind of work, like
• 20:48
  putting in fences and all the stuff that you see
• 20:52
  the Cowboys doing on Yellowstone and then hanging out together
• 20:56
  afterwards that's so viscerally appealing to people. There's something about
• 21:02
  watching that life. You would say it's like a simple,
• 21:06
  difficult life. Maybe, I don't know what it is, but
• 21:09
  whatever it is, it's like, it's so appealing. Like, so
• 21:13
  many people wanted to be cowboys after they watched your show.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's something that goes to, like you were
• 21:18
  talking about that guy living off the land and stuff
• 21:20
  like that. It's just something that's been ingrained in us
• 21:25
  over thousands of years of survival. And we all have
• 21:29
  that in us still today. And we just unfortunately lose
• 21:32
  in touch with it because we're not doing it as much.
• 21:34
  And so when you get the opportunity to Even just
• 21:37
  go plant a garden or something like that. I think
• 21:39
  that's in us, you know, and it wakes up something
• 21:43
  within that's just been a little bit dormant for a while,
• 21:46
  you know.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think that's exactly what it is.
• 21:50
  I think it is like it's in our memory, like
• 21:53
  the memory of our genes that this is like a
• 21:55
  pleasing life. This is a satisfying life.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: It's like that mama bear energy, you know. Kids come.
• 22:00
  It's just like, oh, it's like, oh, man, you know. Yeah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's it's there you know and it's just like
• 22:09
  i realized that having kids it's just like oh man
• 22:11
  it wakes something up within you that's always been there
• 22:14
  right that you were born to have you know that
• 22:17
  survival instinct and all of those things and i still
• 22:22
  that's what i still love about it like i even
• 22:24
  at home being on the road and being in big
• 22:26
  cities all the time and you're just surrounded with Information
• 22:29
  and screens, man, as soon as I get home or
• 22:32
  get outside or get into nature, it just wakes that
• 22:35
  stuff back up in me, and I feel like it
• 22:37
  puts that spark back in my eye, you know?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I try to stay in tune with that as much
• 22:43
  as I can.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Well, it's clearly so appealing to people that don't experience it.
• 22:47
  I mean, how many people that are watching shows like
• 22:50
  Yellowstone never go into those areas? But they watch it,
• 22:53
  they're like, aww. Yeah. I want to live like that.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: We see the, like, prices of horses just skyrocketing.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Like, buying old ranchers for, like, five grand. I'm sure.
• 23:03
  It's like 50,000 bucks for a trail horse, you know,
• 23:07
  which is cool. You know, I hope people are enjoying
• 23:10
  that and getting something out of it. You know, I still,
• 23:14
  I mean, I'm not running a bunch of cows these days,
• 23:16
  but I keep a few horses around, and especially for
• 23:18
  the kids, you know, and whether they want anything to
• 23:20
  do with them or not, like, We enjoy so much
• 23:23
  in the afternoons to go out and feed them some
• 23:24
  carrots or brushing their tails and just being around that energy.
• 23:28
  My youngest little boy, he's just got some kind of
• 23:31
  mojo with animals, you know. And I've got this old mule,
• 23:35
  and her name's Honey, and she's got these big ears,
• 23:37
  and she's massive, you know. And I remember when he
• 23:39
  was like three or four, I'd be looking around for
• 23:42
  him in the backyard, and I'd look out in the pasture,
• 23:45
  and he'd be out there with that mule, and she'd
• 23:46
  have her head down, and he's just out there petting
• 23:49
  her ears, you know.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Aww.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: And just like his connection with those animals. And then,
• 23:54
  you know, getting kids up to the house or, or
• 23:57
  from the city that aren't around those animals, their first
• 23:59
  time around horses or maybe even dogs and stuff like that.
• 24:02
  And you can see they're, they're so anxious or, you know,
• 24:06
  not maybe so scared, but it's just nervous, you know,
• 24:08
  this is big animals and stuff. And within like 20
• 24:11
  minutes of just sitting them on their back or petting them.
• 24:13
  And then you see them relax and you see that
• 24:16
  energy kind of slow down and, uh, I just, I
• 24:19
  love that. You know, I think it's so magical to watch.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another relationship that's like primal, the relationship between
• 24:25
  people and horses. They do that with addicts. They do
• 24:29
  equine therapy where they just have like people that are,
• 24:32
  they have like heavy anxiety and depression. They have them
• 24:35
  hang out with horses.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I think even me, I still do. I mean, I
• 24:40
  get depressed and stuff like that every now and then
• 24:42
  and I love being around them. I can walk out
• 24:43
  to the barn and just being around them and.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Laying on their backs.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: And it's just like, ah, yeah, all right, here we go.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Just touching their head makes you feel better. Like, hey,
• 24:53
  how are you, honey? What's happening?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: They look at me. I get eye contact with them.
• 25:00
  I think it's an ancient thing.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, they helped us survive. And we took care
• 25:06
  of them. It's like this ancient relationship. And then when
• 25:09
  you're around them, that connection immediately rebonds, reestablishes. I think
• 25:15
  it's in our DNA. I mean, just think about how
• 25:17
  many generations of humans had to survive on horseback before
• 25:21
  anybody invented anything else. It's like if you wanted to
• 25:24
  travel faster than you could run, it had to be
• 25:26
  a fucking horse. So that was probably thousands and thousands
• 25:29
  and thousands of years just cooked into our DNA. And
• 25:33
  when you're around them, it's like, oh, my friend. This
• 25:35
  is my friend.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It's waking it back up.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: It's there, yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: It's weird that that stuff is in you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: That nature stuff is in you. I mean, that's why
• 25:43
  we like watching shows like this Clay Guy.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I love that, too. I love that Steve Rinella show,
• 25:50
  that Meat Eater. I like watching that with my kids.
• 25:53
  Aren't you friends with Remy Warren?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, real good friends.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: He ended up being my neighbor when I was in
• 25:57
  Montana working on Yellowstone.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's crazy.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: You know, what I really liked up there was where
• 26:04
  they filmed the show. You know, it was kind of
• 26:07
  way out there, southwestern Montana. And a lot of folks
• 26:10
  that were working on the show would go back to
• 26:11
  Missoula or in the cities. But I was like, man,
• 26:13
  I want to go get as far away out there
• 26:15
  as I can. And so I kind of went down
• 26:17
  this West Fork area that's on the right on the
• 26:21
  edge of the most massive wilderness areas out there. It
• 26:23
  goes into Idaho. And the road I was on, you know,
• 26:27
  is paved dirt, then it dead ended and it turned
• 26:30
  into a dirt road. And then I got this cabin
• 26:32
  that was just way back up and there was no wifi,
• 26:34
  no nothing, you know, and I just, um, just disappeared
• 26:38
  out there. And, um, and ended up meeting some folks
• 26:42
  and Remy was just right down the road, uh, going
• 26:45
  towards Sula. And so I got the chance to just
• 26:47
  go over there and hang out with him and go
• 26:48
  stomp around the mountains with him. It's such a cool dude.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: It's like... Remy's the best. Just.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You know, like you're talking about going to Alaska. You know,
• 26:55
  I love going into those places. But, like, you want
• 26:56
  somebody like that with you when you go.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he knows how to get around. Yeah. And he
• 27:03
  used to have a great show. Well, first of all,
• 27:06
  he had Solo Hunter where he'd go and film everything himself,
• 27:10
  which is so much more difficult than just hunting. Yeah.
• 27:14
  He would carry tripods with him and shit and set
• 27:16
  it up and make sure the camera's on the animal
• 27:19
  before he would shoot it and then film himself.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Filming himself moving up to there, set up different cameras
• 27:24
  that could show him executing the shot. I'm like, God,
• 27:27
  that's so complicated.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: He's a beast, man. Just trying to keep up with him,
• 27:31
  you know, just walking around the mountains with that guy.
• 27:34
  I'm like, oh, man, wait up. I'm coming.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they get that mountain cardio.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like a mountain goat.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, he hunts probably 200 plus days a year.
• 27:45
  And on top of that, he does a lot of guiding.
• 27:47
  And when he's doing guiding, he's like always in the mountains,
• 27:50
  always hiking. It's like you just get conditioned to it.
• 27:53
  He's fit.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I went to Hawaii with him and did an axis
• 27:56
  hunt over there. Cool. One of the coolest things I
• 27:58
  ever did. And I got this buck and. We would
• 28:03
  load him up in the truck and all that, and
• 28:05
  he was like, man, I'll meet you guys back at camp.
• 28:08
  It was dark already, and I know during the day
• 28:11
  we were hunting, it was just steep mountains up and down.
• 28:14
  I said, you're just going to meet us back? He's like, yeah,
• 28:16
  I'll meet you back. He just put on his backpack
• 28:18
  and just took off running, and we drove down this
• 28:21
  mountain road to go back. He beat us there by
• 28:23
  like a half an hour. That was his workout, though.
• 28:26
  He's like, yeah, it's part of my workout. I'll meet
• 28:28
  you guys back there. I was like, oh, you're an animal.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: That's funny. Axis deer in Hawaii is very interesting because
• 28:36
  they were given to King Kamehameha in like, I don't
• 28:41
  remember what year it was. I don't know what year
• 28:44
  they got introduced there, but they're everywhere now. I've gone
• 28:47
  to Lanai a bunch of times.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: That's where we went.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Bow hunting.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wild. There are thousands of them everywhere.
• 28:53
  And you're trying to sneak up on a group of 10,
• 28:55
  and then you don't even realize there's like 100 right
• 28:58
  here laying down. that you didn't even see, and then
• 29:00
  they'd get up and spook the rest and stand, well,
• 29:02
  you know, you've been there.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, it was in the 1800s. A gift to Kim
• 29:08
  Kamehameha from India. And there's 30,000 of them in Lanai
• 29:15
  and only 3,000 people. I mean, it's crazy. It's the
• 29:18
  only place where you can go hunting, bow hunting, and
• 29:21
  you stay at the Four Seasons. Right?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I think Remy said he got kicked out of there, though, because...
• 29:28
  He was hunting so much, and all that red clay
• 29:31
  there on your boots and stuff. He said, so the
• 29:33
  whole hotel was just like red clay everywhere. The fridge
• 29:36
  is just full of meat, you know, like blood dripping out.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: They kicked him out of there?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know if they kicked him out. Oh,
• 29:42
  that's hilarious. He's like, well, maybe we ought to go
• 29:43
  find somewhere else to stay, you know.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Well, just take off your boots before you come inside.
• 29:47
  That's all it is. But yeah, it's that weird red clay.
• 29:50
  And it all used to be part of the Dole
• 29:53
  Pineapple Plantation. So when you're around there, one of the
• 29:57
  things you notice is like there's layers of dirt, but
• 29:59
  then there's like almost looks like plastic bag underneath it,
• 30:02
  like a like a hefty bag from all the farming. Yeah.
• 30:05
  So I guess they had a layer of like that
• 30:09
  kind of whatever the fuck a hefty bag is made
• 30:12
  out of, whatever that plastic is. And then the dirt
• 30:14
  was on top of that somehow. And then the pineapples
• 30:16
  would grow up through it.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I used to keep moisture and stuff like that in
• 30:20
  the ground.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would imagine. But it's disconcerting because it doesn't
• 30:24
  feel like nature. It feels weird. It does. It's like
• 30:26
  this is weird. There's plastic everywhere on the ground.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then you get in the mountains and like
• 30:30
  those old World War II turrets and stuff that are
• 30:32
  up there. Oh, yeah. Do you come across any of
• 30:34
  that stuff? I mean, it's just like.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: First of all, like hunting axis deer in Lanai and
• 30:39
  like you get up on the top and you're surrounded
• 30:41
  by the ocean. I mean, what a trip, you know.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Just seeing that and then. coming across all those old
• 30:46
  relics and just all the history there it's just something
• 30:49
  to take into and uh we are laughing because obviously
• 30:52
  they're trying to like control the population of the axis
• 30:55
  deer there and i think somebody somebody mentioned like man
• 30:59
  just get a couple of bangle tigers out here exactly
• 31:04
  that'll thin out the population let's.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Thin out the population of people too unfortunately yeah the
• 31:08
  thing about them is that they did evolve around tigers
• 31:10
  that's why they're so fast like They'll jump a string
• 31:14
  faster than any animal I've ever seen in my life.
• 31:16
  I have a video of me shooting at an axis
• 31:18
  deer at 80 yards, and we have a slow-mo of
• 31:22
  the arrow. So as the arrow's coming, it's a perfect
• 31:26
  shot within 10 yards of him. He hears it, and phew,
• 31:32
  and he's gone. It's the craziest thing. Like, you look
• 31:36
  at it, you're like, how the fuck did he move
• 31:38
  that fast? This thing's going at least from the actual, like,
• 31:43
  leaving the bow, it's going 275 feet per second. Yeah.
• 31:47
  And he can get out of there within 10 yards.
• 31:50
  Within 10 yards, he's hearing it coming, and he's like,
• 31:52
  see ya.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: And nowhere near him. Like, he was a foot in
• 31:57
  front of, it was the arrow landed a foot behind
• 31:59
  his ass. Jeez. That's how fast they move. Yeah.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: How long did you go there for a while or
• 32:05
  just kind of like a few time trips?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: We found that the best time to hunt is actually
• 32:10
  in the afternoon because in the afternoon it's really windy.
• 32:14
  And when it's really windy, it covers your sound a
• 32:16
  little bit. Okay. The morning's rough.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: The morning's rough. Like the morning, I got a couple
• 32:22
  of them in the morning, couple of times morning hunting
• 32:24
  I got a deer, but it's a lot of blown stalks.
• 32:28
  You got to walk super slow. You've got to be
• 32:31
  real cautious. And, again, there's a lot of high brush,
• 32:34
  and you don't know where the fuck they're hiding.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: You've got to kind of find a pinch point.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you jump one, and then the rest of them
• 32:40
  sound off. The way they bark and all of that
• 32:42
  is pretty crazy, too.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird noise. What you've got
• 32:45
  to kind of do is, like, find where they're going
• 32:47
  to be and just wait. Because they travel so much.
• 32:50
  They do so much moving. You think, I'm just going
• 32:52
  to go, you know, still hunt and spot and stalk,
• 32:56
  and I'll find one. You're almost better off just staying put.
• 32:59
  Just stay and put and wait for them because they're
• 33:01
  moving all over the place. There's so fucking many of them.
• 33:04
  It's crazy. But it's amazing how unsuccessful people are bow
• 33:09
  hunting them. Rifle, it's a done deal. If you want meat,
• 33:14
  and it's the best meat in the world. For the
• 33:17
  people that live there, it's incredible. I mean, they have
• 33:20
  access to the best meat in the world. 100% they're
• 33:22
  going to get a deer. But if you have a bow.
• 33:27
  We went there and then– so I went with Remy.
• 33:30
  I went with John Dudley, Cam Haynes, and Adam Greentree.
• 33:35
  They're like all seasoned bow hunters. Everybody got a deer
• 33:39
  and we made a podcast about it. We had a
• 33:41
  good old time. They had 150 people go over the
• 33:45
  next year and one was successful with a bow. Yeah.
• 33:49
  That's crazy.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Take your chances, yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: That's how hard it is. Yeah. Because it's like these
• 33:54
  fuckers are– they're– Dialed in man, and they move a lot.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Of people chasing them to know the game right 365
• 34:01
  days a year they get hunted There's no season and
• 34:03
  then they have snipers that are after him at night
• 34:06
  Because you know they use it for meat for the
• 34:08
  restaurants and meat for people and and they just have
• 34:11
  to control the population There's so many of them and
• 34:14
  no predators. Yeah, and still can't thin them out, right?
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I know it's crazy I think they got a good
• 34:19
  head start. They eradicated him from the Big Island Oh,
• 34:22
  did they?
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Somebody tried to reintroduce them, or introduce, I should say,
• 34:26
  to the Big Island, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 34:28
  We know where this is going. He's going to destroy
• 34:31
  people's crops and destroy people's gardens.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Take over.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: And they already have plenty of wild pigs on the
• 34:37
  Big Island, so they just whacked them all, unfortunately.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like the pigs here in Texas, right? Crazy.
• 34:42
  They've gone... wild I don't you know growing up here
• 34:45
  when I was younger I'd never remember them being like
• 34:47
  how they are now they don't.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Stop they have three or four litters a year and
• 34:52
  each litter has I think they can have as many
• 34:55
  as six piglets it's crazy they just and they can
• 34:58
  get pregnant six months old at six months old they
• 35:01
  can get pregnant they're ready to rock and they're just
• 35:03
  spitting out.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Pigs and just tearing tearing shit up yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: We have a lease out here for Huntingland me and
• 35:11
  some of my friends and the amount of pigs is disturbing.
• 35:16
  It's like, you hear them everywhere. You hear them in
• 35:18
  the bushes. They're all over the fucking place. It's like
• 35:21
  most of Texas, probably that's not like city has wild
• 35:26
  pigs in it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: It's just like taking over, man.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And it's all came over on boats. Yeah. That's how
• 35:33
  it all got here.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's important to men.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Guys from Europe, they brought boats and in the boats,
• 35:41
  some of them brought pigs. And then they let them loose.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, man. Tearing stuff up. Yeah, I don't ever
• 35:48
  remember them being as bad as they were in the
• 35:50
  last 15 years or so.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: It's actually bad in California, too. And California has them
• 35:55
  from William Randolph Hearst.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Didn't they eradicate them off the Channel Islands out there?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I think so. I think the islands... And they had
• 36:04
  mule deer on some of the islands out there, too, right? Yeah,
• 36:07
  I think so. I forget which island had mule deer.
• 36:10
  But apparently they had like a... like you could go
• 36:14
  hunt on one of.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: These islands yeah i think you think you might still
• 36:17
  be able to like on catalina or a couple but
• 36:20
  maybe do they really santa cruz they did because i
• 36:23
  know my uh my buddy matt he did it like
• 36:26
  maybe the last year the year before but i think
• 36:28
  they're trying to put a stop to it and you
• 36:30
  know and kind of stop it that was those channel
• 36:32
  islands are pretty interesting i remember first moving out there
• 36:35
  even just going out there 15 years ago and um
• 36:39
  seeing the islands out there you know and I'd ask
• 36:41
  people all around I was like man what's the deal
• 36:43
  with these islands out there and half the people that
• 36:45
  I would talk to would be like what are you
• 36:46
  talking about islands and I'm like that island right out
• 36:50
  there they're like oh I thought that was Long Beach
• 36:53
  you know I'm like really I was like have you
• 36:55
  looked at a map you know I love maps so
• 36:59
  I started you know doing some research and figuring out
• 37:02
  all about it and they're really cool and over the
• 37:04
  years I've met some really cool guys go out there
• 37:07
  a lot spearfish and Just to go out there to them.
• 37:10
  And besides Catalina, like Santa Cruz and San Miguel, they're
• 37:14
  all nature preserves and protected. So it's like going back
• 37:17
  in time when you get out there. And I love
• 37:21
  it out there. It's such a cool spot.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Are they trying to eradicate deer from Catalina? I think
• 37:28
  I've read something about that. Let's see if that's true.
• 37:31
  I think they're trying to remove the deer because they
• 37:34
  said the deer were non-native to the island.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what they did with the hogs,
• 37:41
  and I don't know. There's like a specific island fox
• 37:43
  out there.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here it is. As of early 2026, California officials
• 37:48
  have approved a controversial plan to fully eradicate the non-native
• 37:52
  mule deer population on Santa Catalina Island to restore the ecosystem.
• 37:57
  Around 2,000 deer introduced in the 1930s for hunting will
• 38:01
  be removed by ground-based hunters to protect native biodiversity. Come on.
• 38:09
  That sounds crazy. How about just let people hunt them?
• 38:12
  What the fuck's wrong with you? So the issue is
• 38:15
  Catalina Island Conservancy considers the mule deer an invasive species
• 38:20
  that disrupts the ecosystem as they consume native plants and
• 38:23
  seedlings while spreading fire-prone invasive grasses. Really? I just always
• 38:33
  worry about conservancies and their their judgments on things like that,
• 38:38
  because there's a lot of, they want to eradicate all
• 38:41
  the pigs from Texas or the, uh, from, uh, California rather.
• 38:45
  They think of them as non-native and they want them
• 38:48
  out too, but you're not going to, they want to
• 38:51
  eradicate D uh, there's like elk in California that are
• 38:55
  Yellowstone elk that were brought there in like the 1950s
• 38:58
  that they're, they want to eradicate.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Like the Tule elk?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: No, they're actually, they're actually Rocky mountain elk.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But they're, There were a larger breed of Rocky
• 39:09
  Mountain elk that they call yellow, apparently.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Like in the Sierras or down along the coast and stuff?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Tachpe.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Tachpe, yeah.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Up in that area on those mountains. Big fucking elk,
• 39:20
  like 400-inch elk. Like a couple of those elk out
• 39:23
  there that are in the front, that's what they're from.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Those are massive. Yeah, that's from Tohono Ranch. Oh yeah,
• 39:30
  that's like going up over the grapevine.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: That's where you got those?
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Wow, I had no idea that they were that big
• 39:37
  out there.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It's the biggest private ranch in California. It's like 270,000 acres.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I've heard of the ranch, but I didn't know that
• 39:45
  they had elk like that up there.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the rare places. Gorgeous fucking places. But
• 39:50
  they also go up– it's kind of funny. They go
• 39:52
  up to– there's a golfing community higher up in Tatchpee.
• 39:58
  And the elk just hang out on the golf course.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Just tearing it up.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Giant elk, like 400-inch elk, just chilling, hanging out together
• 40:07
  on the golf course. And dudes are playing golf. that's
• 40:10
  while they're lying down next to them like 20 yards
• 40:13
  away it's crazy.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I've seen i saw someone time i was driving up
• 40:17
  the coast i think i was going up to san
• 40:18
  francisco to play a gig and uh maybe they're the
• 40:22
  tule elk i'm not sure what they were but i
• 40:24
  was along the coast there and i looked over in
• 40:25
  the field and there was like 30 head of them
• 40:27
  just laying down over there i'm like oh man i
• 40:30
  didn't even know there were elk down here it's just
• 40:33
  i love seeing uh Wildlife that in unexpected places, you know.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They recently just found a.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Wolf in Los Angeles.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: They're unexpected for me anyway. Oh, really? Yeah. See if
• 40:44
  you can find the story about that wolf that they
• 40:46
  just discovered in Los Angeles.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: There's a mama bear, black bear with three cubs running
• 40:52
  around in Topanga.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. There's a lot of those.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of lions running around.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of bears. I've seen them in Pasadena
• 41:01
  and people's pools.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: I knew there was a bunch out in Pasadena and Glendale.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Wolf detected in Los Angeles County for the first time
• 41:09
  in more than a century. Crazy. Isn't that nuts? Those
• 41:16
  guys can fucking travel. I had a lady on who
• 41:20
  was a wolf biologist and she was talking about like
• 41:23
  the You know, they'd collar some of these wolves, and
• 41:26
  they would track them. They would go 500 miles. Yeah. Like,
• 41:30
  it's kind of insane.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah. That's incredible.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Well, that's how they learned about them. It's really the
• 41:35
  only way to tell is to, like, put a collar
• 41:37
  on them and track them by GPS.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: And, you know, they mean they're extraordinary animals.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Where were they originating from in Montana, Wyoming, and where
• 41:48
  were they going, the ones that they were tracking?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I think the ones that they were tracking were the
• 41:52
  part of the group that was brought in. you know,
• 41:54
  in the 1990s. You know, so there was that pack
• 41:58
  and the subsequent packs that came after that. There were
• 42:01
  all the reintroduced wolves. And so they would, you know,
• 42:04
  dart and call or some of them. And when they
• 42:06
  would do that, they would just track their motion. They're like, Jesus.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: They're covering some ground.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: They're covering some ground. They're covering some ground. It's interesting, too,
• 42:16
  that they actually make mountain lions kill more deer.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: They're competing with them.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the mountain lions kill a deer, and then
• 42:24
  the wolves will steal it.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: So they'll come up on the mountain lion, and they'll
• 42:28
  surround them, and the mountain lion will go, fuck this,
• 42:30
  I'm out of here, and he'll just go kill another deer.
• 42:32
  So he doesn't even get a chance to eat his
• 42:34
  deer because the wolves keep stealing his deer.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: They keep tracking the lions, probably just following them around.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: They're smart, man.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Let them do the dirty work, yeah.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: They do. They let them do the dirty work, and
• 42:42
  then they steal their food. Work smarter, not harder, huh?
• 42:45
  What does it say? The wolf that they found?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is from February when they first spotted it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: So the Wolf was born in 2023, Plumas County's– where's
• 42:54
  Plumas County? It's traveled more than 370 miles. Wow. Including
• 42:59
  crossing State Route 59 near Tachipi. There you go. They
• 43:04
  had one up in Tachipi too that a buddy of
• 43:06
  mine– it was actually closer to the city that's down there.
• 43:12
  What is that fucking city?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Bakersfield?
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Bakersfield.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. Wildlife officials now estimate at least 60 wolves
• 43:19
  live in the state. Wow.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: One crossed over in 2011.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Wow. From California, from Oregon. So they find them in
• 43:29
  the Tachipi Mountains. Interesting. Biologists told newspapers that she could
• 43:35
  encounter a mate in the nearby region, such as Tachipi Mountains,
• 43:39
  potentially forming a new pack or continue to roam. What
• 43:42
  was that picture you just had of the elk? Yeah,
• 43:43
  that's that golf course. Look at that. Giant fucking elk
• 43:48
  chilling on the golf course.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: On the flag.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look how beautiful that is. God, it's so pretty
• 43:54
  out there. massive elk oak tree country.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Club perfect sanctuary for them right oh yeah man.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: And it's just it adds to the coolness of playing
• 44:04
  golf i mean you're playing golf around giant beautiful.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Animals i bet those greens keepers love them though right
• 44:11
  they probably fuck up all.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Kinds of things out there yeah it's uh the wolf
• 44:16
  thing is interesting because they they just brought them back
• 44:18
  to aspin And they did a really stupid thing. They
• 44:22
  brought them into an area where it has a lot
• 44:24
  of livestock. And they brought them in from a place
• 44:28
  in Oregon where these wolves had all been captured because
• 44:32
  they were killing agriculture. So what did they do? They
• 44:35
  captured them and they... Dropped them off in Colorado where
• 44:38
  they started killing cows again. In the national park. They
• 44:41
  just do it. Well, it's on people's, my friend's ranch.
• 44:44
  One of them, they dropped three wolves off on my
• 44:46
  friend's ranch.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: That's tough, man. I've heard that even with the bears
• 44:49
  and stuff. You get some problem bears or whatever, and
• 44:52
  then they go drop them out where the farmers and
• 44:54
  ranches are living. It's like, man, how's that going to work?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the people in charge of these things and
• 45:00
  making these decisions. They don't understand what they're doing. They're
• 45:03
  monkeying around with wildlife. nature, biology, and you don't know
• 45:07
  what you're doing. Yeah. You have no idea. Also, like,
• 45:11
  how the fuck are you in good conscience to take
• 45:13
  a wolf that's used to killing cows and put them
• 45:16
  around other people's cows?
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's already programmed, man. The dinner bell's ringing.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: It knows exactly how to do it. It knows it's easy.
• 45:23
  They're all fenced in. They taste delicious. Why would it stop?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Or why would it, yeah, why would it go chase...
• 45:31
  Chase the tougher prey, right?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: So now these poor ranchers have to have people monitoring
• 45:35
  their cows 24-7. They have to have cowboys up all
• 45:39
  night that are wandering around and on horseback and just
• 45:43
  looking for wolves. I mean, it's a disaster. It's tough.
• 45:46
  They've killed dozens of cows.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: And these are folks that, you know, have been, like,
• 45:51
  surviving on this land for generations and dealing with that and,
• 45:55
  you know— have a history with managing that stuff, you know,
• 45:59
  it would probably be the folks I'd want to ask.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: How to handle it, you know?
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Well, they would certainly tell you don't let the wolves in.
• 46:06
  And if you do, kill them, you know. But now
• 46:09
  it's gotten to the point where I think they're going
• 46:11
  to have to do something about them.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Well, they put a hunting limit on them, you think?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Honestly, that would probably do something. But really what you
• 46:22
  should do is hire someone to recapture them. And don't
• 46:26
  drop them off there. Don't drop them off in fucking Aspen,
• 46:29
  you idiot. Because they're going to eat people's poodles, too.
• 46:33
  They don't give a shit. If they run out of cows,
• 46:35
  if somehow or another the ranchers scare them away from
• 46:37
  the cows and they make it into the town of Aspen,
• 46:40
  you don't think they're going to eat your golden retriever?
• 46:42
  They're going to eat all kinds of dogs. They eat
• 46:44
  dogs in Alaska all the time. Yeah.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear a lot like the lions and stuff, man.
• 46:50
  They're coming after your kids.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: There's been that Malibu Creek Park. I've heard... couple of
• 46:56
  incidents there you know hits like man they're they're gonna
• 46:59
  go eat something.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Especially when they're old yeah when they get old you
• 47:04
  know they can't catch a deer anymore and they're hungry
• 47:07
  and they haven't eaten in a few days and then
• 47:09
  they see a kid hanging around a little too close
• 47:11
  to the outside of the woods.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: I got a big one that comes right by my
• 47:14
  house i got a little game trail cameras set up
• 47:16
  and i got a little fountain right in the front
• 47:18
  it doesn't come around when i'm there because we got
• 47:20
  the dogs you know a lot but uh Whenever I'm
• 47:23
  out of town for weeks at a time, I'll come back,
• 47:24
  and that sucker's just laying on my front porch. Whoa.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Just massive.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: And then the other day, a friend of mine was
• 47:31
  taking the trash out, and it was around lunchtime, and
• 47:35
  it jumped over the fence into the driveway and had
• 47:38
  a dead rabbit in its mouth just looking at her.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: And she's like, holy shit. They're there.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: So every time I'm even walking around by myself or
• 47:46
  with the dogs, you're just like, man, this sucker could
• 47:48
  just be in a tree looking at me right now.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just living with monsters. Yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Whew. They're there.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: California spent more than $ 100 million trying to make a
• 48:00
  bridge over, I forget which freeway it is. I think
• 48:05
  it's the 101. Is it the 101? I think you're right.
• 48:08
  So they spent over $ 100 million and it's still not done. Oh,
• 48:11
  my gosh. For a bridge. A bridge for the mountain lions. Like,
• 48:15
  you fucking dorks.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Ugh.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: It's like this idea of, like, it's going to be
• 48:21
  a bridge, but it's going to have dirt and grass
• 48:23
  on it, so it'll encourage them to walk across so
• 48:25
  they don't have to go over the highway and die.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: It's a bit nicer than the roads we're driving on.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, $ 110 million is crazy, and it's still not
• 48:35
  even done. Like, it's so crazy. So that's what it,
• 48:41
  early 2026.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: It's like going up to Ventura, right?
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: So they want to have this. this big dirt mound
• 48:49
  and this bridge so the animals can get across the
• 48:52
  highway but it's just like it's so goofy and they
• 48:56
  never want people to do anything about the population of
• 48:59
  mountain lions regardless of how out of control they are
• 49:02
  they don't do anything about it they have to hire
• 49:04
  people the state has to hire people to go and
• 49:06
  get the bad mountain lions the ones that are problems
• 49:09
  and when they capture them one of the things they
• 49:10
  find out is they actually kill them right so one
• 49:13
  of the things they find out when they examine their
• 49:15
  diet it's like 50% pets.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: 50% dogs and cats. That's what your mountain lions are eating.
• 49:22
  That's crazy.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: And they spend money, like a lot of money, going
• 49:28
  after these mountain lions. And instead, they could make money
• 49:32
  by letting people hunt these mountain lions and giving them
• 49:35
  tags and control the numbers. And that place, Tohono Ranch,
• 49:40
  one of my buddies works there, and they have a
• 49:42
  trail camera set up on a pond, and they found
• 49:45
  16 different cats that were drinking out of that pond.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: That's insane.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, when I first started going out there, too,
• 49:54
  the coyotes, you know, and even around like in Hollywood
• 49:57
  and stuff. Man, I swear I just saw a coyote
• 50:00
  running down the street with a pair of sunglasses on
• 50:02
  and a gold chain, eating better than any of us.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: When I went there in 94, that was the first
• 50:09
  time I ever saw a coyote. I couldn't believe it.
• 50:12
  You know they have those furnished apartments, the Oakwood furnished apartments?
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, not really.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: It's like temporary. For people that don't have a house
• 50:21
  yet and you've got to move to California quick, they
• 50:23
  have this place called Oakwoods. You go in there, it's
• 50:25
  already got a couch, it's already got a TV, it's
• 50:27
  already got a bed. You're like, okay.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Like an Airbnb type of thing?
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, almost like you just move in. I was driving
• 50:33
  up to the... entrance to the place and i see
• 50:36
  these little dogs on the street i was like what
• 50:38
  the fuck is going on he's done.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: That ain't no dog i was like oh.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: My god they're coyotes like this is weird and so
• 50:48
  this is like 94 i had never seen a fucking
• 50:51
  coyote and never even heard of a coyote being out
• 50:54
  just wandering in the street i just couldn't believe it
• 50:56
  that they just wander around on the concrete.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Man it's they're everywhere I feel like I've seen more
• 51:02
  there than anywhere you see them more in town than
• 51:04
  you do anywhere.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Else yeah well they have large populations of them in
• 51:09
  downtown where they know where they den up they den
• 51:11
  up in certain warehouse buildings okay.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Like abandoned buildings and under bridges and freeways and stuff
• 51:18
  yeah they live there they probably keep the rat population
• 51:21
  nature will take back over one day won't it.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly yeah I think they probably keep the rat population
• 51:27
  in check though yeah if you think about it.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah i keep a lot of other things in check
• 51:32
  too right cats.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Well there's a terrible video from woodland hills a few
• 51:38
  years back where a guy uh was unloading his car
• 51:41
  and his toddler was out there in in the grass.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I saw that and.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: He grabbed his toddler trying to run away with his kid.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah i saw that man i you know i'm always
• 51:52
  watching around for stuff and with my, our kiddos or
• 51:56
  just people around the neighborhood and stuff, you gotta remind,
• 51:58
  remind yourself, you know, they're, they're there and they're not
• 52:00
  scared of you, you know, they're not afraid. I remember the,
• 52:04
  one of the first times, um, I went up to
• 52:06
  Ojai just north of, uh, LA there, you know, and
• 52:08
  I just wanted to go up there and go hike
• 52:10
  around and check out the area. And, uh, those, uh,
• 52:14
  an archery shop up there and had this old guy
• 52:16
  kind of looked like Charlie Daniels, just big overalls, big
• 52:19
  old beard, you know, and I walked in there and
• 52:21
  just to, check out the shop and also just ask
• 52:24
  him about, you know, some areas to go stomp around. And,
• 52:27
  and I had a, uh, uh, Australian shepherd dog at
• 52:30
  the time. And, uh, just ask him where, you know,
• 52:33
  good places to go stomp around. And he said, yeah,
• 52:35
  you know, you go up there. He goes, but I
• 52:36
  wouldn't take your dog with you. I was like, really? Why?
• 52:39
  And he's like, man, those lions are real deal up here.
• 52:42
  You know? And he's like, you, he goes, you won't
• 52:44
  see them, you know, until they're on you. Yeah. And
• 52:48
  I just, you know, I knew that, They're lying to
• 52:50
  stuff like that. But hearing it from that guy, you know,
• 52:52
  maybe he's trying to scare me a little bit. But,
• 52:54
  you know, it's a real deal.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: It's real. It's real, and they try to downplay it.
• 53:01
  Because all the wildlife lovers, all the greenies, they don't
• 53:06
  want you, like, sounding the alarm and killing them. But
• 53:10
  their goal is to have zero hunting. Their goal is
• 53:14
  to have all the animals just balance each other out.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I think it'll happen. You can't. Not with humans in
• 53:20
  the mix. No.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: The humans have interrupted that whole idea, right? So if
• 53:24
  you've got a city and then you've got wild giant predators,
• 53:28
  like 170-pound cats that are killing dogs, and they're like,
• 53:33
  you've got to control them.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Can't manage one without managing the other, right?
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: And so the first thing they did to stop people
• 53:41
  from doing it is they banned hunting with dogs. So
• 53:44
  if you've been hunting with dogs, guess what? You basically,
• 53:46
  you're killing most of the hunting. Because the reality of
• 53:49
  mountain lions is you can't find them. They're really hard
• 53:51
  to find. Really hard to catch. Really hard to find.
• 53:54
  And the best way to control their population is to
• 53:57
  tree them. And you get dogs to tree. Because that
• 54:00
  way you know if it's a tom or if it's
• 54:02
  a female. You know if it's mature. You know what
• 54:04
  size it is. You have a really accurate estimation. You
• 54:08
  can look up at it. Oh, that's a mature tom.
• 54:10
  That's what we're looking to kill. And then you can
• 54:13
  control their population. Same with bears.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see what it is and decide if it needs
• 54:18
  to go or if it needs to stay, right?
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: But they do little things to stop the effective hunting first.
• 54:27
  So California, you can still hunt for black bears, but
• 54:30
  you can't use dogs anymore. So as soon as they
• 54:32
  stopped the use of dogs, the amount of black bears
• 54:35
  they harvested went way down. So the amount of bears
• 54:37
  in the population went way up.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they've, I mean, I know they've
• 54:41
  been around in Pasadena a lot, but I don't think
• 54:43
  there's been one in Topanga for a while. I mean,
• 54:45
  I've been up there, shoot, almost 15 years and hadn't
• 54:48
  heard of one. This is the first time that one's
• 54:50
  kind of made it over into that area that I
• 54:53
  know of anyway, maybe up, you know, around the Malibu
• 54:57
  Creek and those state parks.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: In Topanga, there's probably people feeding them. Oh, 100%.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I've got berries for you, my friend. Giving them weed.
• 55:10
  Some berries.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: The bang is great, but it always catches me out
• 55:15
  if a fire catches.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. We got hit hard last year, as you know,
• 55:20
  the Palisades stuff. And, man, I didn't. That was kind
• 55:24
  of it for me, too. I was like, I'm out.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I've evacuated out of there several times over the years.
• 55:30
  But I've got horses up there now and stuff like that.
• 55:34
  And luckily I had like a. I always keep a
• 55:37
  big truck and a trailer just in case and. I've
• 55:40
  got some friends down in Burbank that have some stables,
• 55:42
  you know, that I'll have like as a backup plan.
• 55:45
  But this was just a different deal. As the crow flies,
• 55:48
  I could see the smoke from the Palisades, you know,
• 55:50
  it's like a mile away. And we were actually working
• 55:53
  in our arena there and smoke came up and I
• 55:57
  was like, shoot, let's just go. Every time I see
• 55:59
  the smoke, like I don't wait. I'm just like, we'll
• 56:00
  be the first ones out and beat the mad rush
• 56:04
  of everybody that's going to decide to try to stay
• 56:06
  and loaded up the, the trailer and the truck and
• 56:09
  the camper and the dogs and all that stuff. And
• 56:12
  I was like, let's go. And my wife and I
• 56:14
  went down to Burbank and I remember we were driving
• 56:17
  through the night and the wind was just howling like
• 56:21
  I've never seen before. And power lines are snapping and
• 56:24
  it's just like trees are coming down and it just
• 56:27
  felt like the end of the world, you know? And
• 56:30
  we get to Burbank and we pull back in these
• 56:32
  stables and there's a kind of a big cinder block
• 56:35
  wall And I just got as close to that as
• 56:38
  I could because it was blocking the wind, you know,
• 56:40
  from hitting us. And the next morning I woke up
• 56:43
  and I was just, my throat was sore and hurting.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: I could hardly breathe.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: And I opened the camper door and the Altadena fire
• 56:49
  had started and.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: It was right there.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And so it was just a mountain of black smoke
• 56:54
  coming over the top of us there. And so I
• 56:57
  was like, let's go and let's get out of here.
• 56:58
  Let's like head north. And I had some friends in
• 57:00
  Moore Park, you know, up in that area going towards
• 57:03
  Ventura that had horses. trying to find some places to
• 57:06
  go with some horses. And they're like, yeah, come on
• 57:09
  up here. So we went up there, stayed there a night,
• 57:11
  and then they cut all the power off up in
• 57:13
  that area because the winds were snapping power lines and
• 57:15
  they were worried about fires. And, you know, after doing
• 57:19
  that a few nights, I was like, let's just head
• 57:21
  east and go to Texas. There's always so many friends
• 57:27
  you can, like, show up with five horses and a
• 57:29
  bunch of dogs, you know, like, hey, we're going to stay.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: For a while, you know. Especially in California.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like, let's just get out of here and
• 57:37
  head it back. And you didn't know when we were
• 57:38
  going to make it back, and they closed indefinitely or whatever.
• 57:42
  I was just like, man, I'm over it.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I got evacuated a bunch of times when I lived there,
• 57:46
  but the last one was 2018. And when the last one,
• 57:51
  we got out early. I came home from the comedy store,
• 57:54
  and we saw fire coming over the top of this hill.
• 57:57
  And it was probably like 1 o'clock in the morning,
• 57:59
  and me and my wife were sitting there. I go—
• 58:01
  What do you think? And she's like, let's get the
• 58:03
  fuck out of here. Like, let's get the fuck out
• 58:05
  of here. Let's just grab some shit and maybe it'll
• 58:07
  come this way. Maybe it won't. So it didn't burn
• 58:10
  the house down, but my neighbors, the front three neighbors
• 58:14
  all lost their house. And my next door neighbor, his
• 58:17
  roof caught on fire. But my friend who refused to leave,
• 58:21
  he stayed in the neighborhood and protected his house and
• 58:24
  guided firefighters. He brought the firefighters to that house and
• 58:28
  showed them. that had just started on this guy's roof,
• 58:30
  and they hosed it down. They stopped it in its tracks,
• 58:32
  but it was pretty fucking bad.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: It's wild because you know it's going to burn. I mean,
• 58:36
  it's not a matter of if. It's just a win.
• 58:40
  I mean, canyons have been burning like that for thousands
• 58:43
  of years, and even the Chumash were setting them on
• 58:45
  fire on purpose to get ahead of it, right, and
• 58:47
  control and all of that stuff. Now there's just so
• 58:50
  many houses and communities back up in there. It's a
• 58:54
  tough thing, but when they hit, man, it's just... they're
• 58:59
  rolling through how fast they come through. And those Santa
• 59:01
  Ana winds are blowing like that.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: And it's just very surreal in person. You can watch
• 59:06
  it on the news and you kind of get a
• 59:08
  feeling of it, but when you're there and you're driving
• 59:10
  down the 101 and you look at the side of
• 59:12
  the highway and you see like these hills in the
• 59:14
  distance that are just covered in fire, hundreds of yards
• 59:18
  of fields of fire just making their way over the
• 59:22
  top of this hill and burning houses.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: We saw it when the Palisades thing would start. From
• 59:30
  our house, there's kind of a little mountain that comes
• 59:32
  up on the back and I hiked up there and
• 59:34
  was watching it and you could see the smoke and
• 59:36
  then you could like start seeing little flickers of the flames.
• 59:40
  And then it was just like somebody dumped gasoline on
• 59:43
  this thing. And I mean, the flame shot up hundreds
• 59:48
  of feet into the air. And my wife was on
• 59:51
  the balcony, you know, the house and I'm kind of
• 59:53
  up on this little mountain. I'm looking over, looking in
• 59:55
  her eyes. I'm like, start packing up. I'll go hook
• 1:00:00
  up the horse trailer. I'll be up and say, let's
• 1:00:01
  load up and just. And, you know, the wind was blowing, like,
• 1:00:07
  offshore then, you know, so the fire's, like, on the coast,
• 1:00:10
  you know? And just depending on how that wind is blowing,
• 1:00:14
  you know, at the beginning it was blowing offshore, and
• 1:00:17
  then within a half an hour it just shot up
• 1:00:20
  the coastline and just ripped up through Malibu and burned
• 1:00:23
  all that coast. Like, that's the stuff that you always
• 1:00:26
  thought was the safest.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Right. You know?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the next day the wind shifts, coming
• 1:00:31
  back on shore, and it blows it back towards... Burbank
• 1:00:34
  you know going back up like the fourth up that
• 1:00:37
  way and then the winds are shifting again and then
• 1:00:39
  coming back across you know so I was amazed at
• 1:00:44
  the I've seen some of the fires that I've been
• 1:00:46
  through seeing the firefighters up there those guys are incredible
• 1:00:49
  man those helicopter pilots uh the airplane pilots seeing those
• 1:00:53
  tankers fly through there I mean it's just incredible what
• 1:00:57
  those guys can do I mean if it hadn't I
• 1:00:58
  mean they saved that whole canyon Yeah. Topanga at least.
• 1:01:03
  It's like, man, there's so much brush in there that
• 1:01:06
  probably needs to burn. It's been accumulating over years, you know,
• 1:01:09
  and cutting those fire breaks and seeing them drop the
• 1:01:13
  retardant on the ridge lines and stuff and watching the wind.
• 1:01:16
  It's just like, man, hats off to those guys.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, think about the amount of damage that was
• 1:01:23
  done in that fire and how much more would have
• 1:01:25
  been done if it wasn't for the firefighters. That's how
• 1:01:27
  crazy it is. Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And I met one of the helicopter pilots.
• 1:01:34
  I was on a flight somewhere and we just happened
• 1:01:37
  to be sitting next to each other and we were
• 1:01:38
  talking about it and just, you know, learning from him,
• 1:01:42
  you know, about, you know, the thermals that come up
• 1:01:44
  from underneath and trying to hold those helicopters and, you know,
• 1:01:49
  in formation and all of that stuff and how heavy
• 1:01:51
  they are when they're full. Right. And then as soon
• 1:01:53
  as you release all that water, whatever's in them that,
• 1:01:56
  you know, all of a sudden that, the power that
• 1:01:58
  they got, you know, throttles, full throttle, you know, when
• 1:02:00
  they're loaded down and then they drop all that water
• 1:02:03
  and then, you know, trying to get back.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: A hold of it. Oh, I never even thought of that. Yeah,
• 1:02:08
  it must have been an enormous difference.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Then you got 90 mile an hour winds blowing and,
• 1:02:12
  you know, and I could see them from the house,
• 1:02:15
  you know, there'd be like two or three helicopters that
• 1:02:17
  would come in, start dropping water and then they would
• 1:02:20
  move out and then the tank, the planes would come
• 1:02:22
  in and then helicopters back in. And you had the
• 1:02:26
  guys on the ground, you know, trying to contain it
• 1:02:29
  as well. Just the coordinated effort between them, you know.
• 1:02:33
  I can imagine the conversations there.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, man. It's so crazy that they didn't have
• 1:02:38
  the reservoirs ready. Oh, dude, it's so sad. I had
• 1:02:42
  Spencer Pratt on. You know, he's running for mayor now.
• 1:02:45
  He was explaining it, like how bad it was. Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  How do you fuck that up that bad?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: It's devastating to hear that it's like you know that
• 1:02:54
  that stuff's coming.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Everyone should not be prepared for that.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: It's just unacceptable. Complete incompetence. Yeah. Just complete, total incompetence,
• 1:03:03
  and yet they still are there.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Like, you're definitely not good at the job, and yet
• 1:03:12
  you don't take any personal responsibility and blame everybody else.
• 1:03:17
  The problem, it's just fucking, it's a problem that happens
• 1:03:22
  every few years. You're going to get fires, period. The
• 1:03:26
  fact that you don't have a full reservoir is crazy.
• 1:03:29
  It's crazy. You should dump all your resources into fixing
• 1:03:32
  that fucking reservoir stat.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Get that shit filled up. I feel like the residents
• 1:03:36
  are more prepared than anybody, you know, because I think
• 1:03:39
  they just got to where you can't depend on it,
• 1:03:42
  you know. I mean, I know our neighbors and stuff
• 1:03:45
  have a pretty good program in place. We'll all get
• 1:03:48
  together and talk about, you know, who's got fire hoses
• 1:03:51
  and swimming pools with access to water and where, you know,
• 1:03:54
  evacuation plans are. You know, there's some folks that have horses,
• 1:03:58
  but they don't even have a horse trailer up there. And,
• 1:04:00
  you know, I'm like, OK, I'll come get yours, too,
• 1:04:02
  or whatever, you know, you know, we.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Need to do.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: And you kind of just have to have that mentality,
• 1:04:07
  I think, you know.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's you know what really freaking me
• 1:04:13
  out about like the Palisades is what is in the
• 1:04:17
  ground now? You know, how much toxic shit got melted
• 1:04:22
  into that ground? Because think about how many people have
• 1:04:25
  electric cars now.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Well, all those old houses, too. You know what I'm
• 1:04:29
  talking about? Right. The materials that they're made out of,
• 1:04:31
  asbestos or lead.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Plastic.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: The stuff in the air that was, even if you
• 1:04:37
  were several miles away from the actual fires, the wind
• 1:04:40
  and blowing all the ashes and the smoke and all
• 1:04:42
  that stuff over it. And I remember going back up
• 1:04:45
  in there, you know, weeks and just trying to get
• 1:04:48
  stuff out of the house or whatever when they'd let
• 1:04:50
  us back up. And you could still, it would just
• 1:04:52
  make your throat hurt, you know, breathing that air and stuff.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Right. It's bad stuff. It's not just wood fire. Yeah. No. No.
• 1:04:59
  Like chemicals. Yeah. Wood fire is hard enough, but the chemicals,
• 1:05:03
  burnt TVs and computers and hard drives and electronics and refrigerators.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Treated lumber. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: All that shit's going to get in your groundwater. Like
• 1:05:16
  it's on the surface. It's going to rain. It's going
• 1:05:19
  to seep through. Like what happens to the water? Is
• 1:05:21
  anybody checking the water out there? You know, you got
• 1:05:25
  to imagine.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I doubt it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Especially like Topanga. I bet a lot of folks have wells,
• 1:05:30
  don't you think?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: I think there's some. You know, it's definitely all like
• 1:05:33
  on septic up there too, you know. I mean, all
• 1:05:36
  of the building code stuff's pretty crazy up there. I
• 1:05:40
  don't know.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: It's a mess. I would just worry about even breathing
• 1:05:44
  the air that has the dust of all that shit
• 1:05:46
  in it. Like, I probably wouldn't want to live there anymore.
• 1:05:51
  If I was in a place where all the houses
• 1:05:53
  burnt to the ground and I knew there was toxic
• 1:05:54
  shit in the ground, I'd be like, hey, let's get
• 1:05:57
  the fuck out of here and sell our house to China. Oh, man.
• 1:06:02
  Because that's the other thing Spencer said. They're the ones
• 1:06:05
  who are the number one land buyers. It's China.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Is it going to be a golf course resort
• 1:06:11
  up there before we know it?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Yeah. Or affordable housing.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: One or the other.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know either. I don't know.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: But it's just I really wonder what the long-term damage
• 1:06:24
  of all those chemicals in the ground is. It has
• 1:06:26
  to be pretty high.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: It's got to be. You know, I don't know. You know,
• 1:06:30
  I was talking to some friends of mine out the
• 1:06:31
  other day that have grown up there, lived out there
• 1:06:33
  their whole lives. And, you know, going over to the
• 1:06:35
  Channel Islands, you know, they've got those oil– platforms out
• 1:06:38
  there in the water and there's been oil spills obviously
• 1:06:41
  throughout there through history and um but also like when
• 1:06:45
  you're surfing and stuff like that there's oil that's been
• 1:06:47
  on top of the ground it's just like so surface
• 1:06:49
  level it's been there for millions of years you know
• 1:06:51
  and so i don't know you know it's like i'm
• 1:06:55
  sure all the toxic stuff that happens how long does
• 1:06:58
  it take for it to dilute you know there's not
• 1:07:00
  much rain or the wind or like what you know
• 1:07:03
  i'm not an expert on it but i I feel
• 1:07:06
  like Mother Nature takes pretty good care of herself. We're
• 1:07:10
  the ones in.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Trouble, right? Right. Mother Nature will sort it out over time,
• 1:07:14
  but I just don't know how good it's going to
• 1:07:16
  be for the people that live there.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: It can't be the long term.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: I have a buddy that has a house out there,
• 1:07:21
  and he lost his house and it burnt down, and
• 1:07:23
  I asked him about it. He said, I think what
• 1:07:24
  they're going to do is take all the dirt out
• 1:07:26
  of their backyard and then replace the dirt. And I'm like, okay. Okay.
• 1:07:32
  I don't know if that's enough. Because what about his dirt?
• 1:07:35
  What about your neighbor's dirt? What about all the toxic
• 1:07:37
  shit that's in his dirt that's going to get down
• 1:07:39
  into your ground as soon as it rains? And also
• 1:07:43
  the air.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Along with all the Roundup and everything else that's coming down.
• 1:07:48
  It's sad, man. It's sad. That's just kind of the
• 1:07:54
  state of it. It's like it's. It seems like just
• 1:07:57
  it's so far of a mess that even the folks
• 1:07:59
  that do have answers that do want to fix stuff,
• 1:08:01
  it just kind of becomes impossible for any solution. You know,
• 1:08:05
  it's like all the red tape and all the hoops
• 1:08:08
  and things and all the permits or whatever. Like you
• 1:08:11
  can't even, you know. The road's blocked. Okay. Well, before
• 1:08:15
  we could even get somebody out here with a tractor
• 1:08:17
  to move the rocks, you got to call 10 other
• 1:08:19
  people to get it approved. And in the process, and
• 1:08:21
  then it's not, and it's like, that's the part I'm
• 1:08:23
  just like, man, I wish I could just call Frank
• 1:08:25
  down the street.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: With his bulldozer.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: We'll just go, we'll just go and move.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: This right now, you know?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: And it's like, you know?
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Well, government has increased so much in California and they
• 1:08:35
  just want more regulations so they could justify more government.
• 1:08:39
  And so they just regulate themselves to a place where
• 1:08:41
  people just want to leave. They just go, look, I
• 1:08:43
  can't fucking do this anymore. Let me get out of here.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: And it's expensive, man. It's so expensive to live there.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, it's beautiful. It's such a great place. They fucked
• 1:08:52
  it up so hard. It's paradise. It's paradise.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: The mountains within like two, three hours, you can be
• 1:08:58
  in the Sierras.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: The beach? Or the mountains. You can go skiing and
• 1:09:03
  then swim in the ocean on the same day. It's gorgeous. Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: Beautiful places I've ever been.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Yosemite.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, get out of town.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Incredible weather.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Kern River. Yeah. Man, it's beautiful.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: But they got ruined.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: They got ruined with progressive politics and bureaucracy that just
• 1:09:23
  ramped up all the control they have over people to
• 1:09:26
  the point where you can't even buy flavored zins. They
• 1:09:31
  banned blackjack. You can't have blackjack anymore. They just stopped
• 1:09:35
  blackjack in the casinos. They stopped flavored zins. They just
• 1:09:40
  regulated into oblivion. They're all these people that want to
• 1:09:44
  be the mommy of the world. And tell you what
• 1:09:48
  to do. Like, fuck off. Yeah. Like, fuck off with
• 1:09:52
  all your goddamn rules. You're just making your government bigger
• 1:09:56
  so you can justify all these fucking rules. And you
• 1:10:00
  need the rules for the government to sustain itself. So
• 1:10:03
  you just keep adding more rules and adding more government.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: We were reading about it the other day. Like, what
• 1:10:08
  was the number that California's government went up by like
• 1:10:11
  24% and their population went up by like 1%?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know, and now we're running out of places
• 1:10:19
  to go.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I forget what the actual numbers were that we found,
• 1:10:22
  but it's... Yeah.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: I'm always looking for hideouts, you know, to kind of
• 1:10:26
  get away from. It's like, man, you find a spot
• 1:10:29
  to go to, you kind of don't want to tell
• 1:10:30
  nobody about it.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I know, right? That's what I hear about West Texas.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I think that's what's hard about Montana. When I first
• 1:10:36
  started going up there years ago, I mean, it was
• 1:10:39
  just such a... And it still is. It's a paradise.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: It's just, you know.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: And I think that's probably what a lot of people
• 1:10:46
  are upset about. I lived up there. It's like, man,
• 1:10:48
  the seeker got out a little bit, and I can
• 1:10:50
  understand that.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: I get it. I get it from that perspective. They
• 1:10:53
  got to let that go.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Where's the next place, you know?
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: The thing about Montana, though, or like Wyoming, another example,
• 1:10:59
  is that winter will thin the herd.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: It's like West Texas. That's funny. Same kind of thing, like,
• 1:11:06
  you know, Marfa and that area. You know, I grew
• 1:11:09
  up all out there going to junior rodeos and all
• 1:11:11
  kinds of stuff, and it was just ranches, you know,
• 1:11:13
  and you know, local diners and stuff like that. And,
• 1:11:16
  you know, I hear people going out there and buying
• 1:11:20
  houses and, you know, all that stuff. And then they
• 1:11:22
  go out there for like a week and they realize
• 1:11:23
  that the only thing open at night is the Dairy Queen.
• 1:11:26
  And they're heading back to New York pretty quick, you know.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: You're right about Montana. Those winters will thin them out.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: The winter gets you. The winter's rough. It's cold. We were,
• 1:11:39
  the first time I ever went hunting was with Rinella.
• 1:11:41
  That's where I got that mule deer that's on the
• 1:11:42
  table right there. and it was 9 degrees in October,
• 1:11:48
  and we're camping. And so we're sleeping on the ground
• 1:11:50
  at 9 degrees. I'm like, bro, how did these fucking people?
• 1:11:54
  And you also, you go by these old homesteads. So
• 1:11:58
  they were giving land out there for people. You can
• 1:12:01
  get a chunk of land, just start farming on it,
• 1:12:04
  and the government was encouraging people to move there. But
• 1:12:07
  it's all this, like, muddy ground. Like, the ground is, like, mucky. Like,
• 1:12:13
  when you hike in it, after, you know, a while,
• 1:12:16
  your boots are so heavy. Just clay, huh? Because they're
• 1:12:19
  just thick with this clay. Yeah. Just muck all over
• 1:12:22
  your boots. And so it's not fertile. It's not good. Like,
• 1:12:25
  in the Missouri breaks, like that area, it's not good
• 1:12:28
  for growing things. So you find these abandoned homesteads. It's
• 1:12:32
  really eerie.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: And you just think, like, this family that came out
• 1:12:36
  here in, like, the 1800s, and they tried to set
• 1:12:39
  up shop. Mm-hmm. Maybe got killed by Indians.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: All the way. I think about my family. I've got
• 1:12:46
  stories of them settling in New Mexico and coming out
• 1:12:51
  on a covered wagon with maybe a steer and a pig.
• 1:12:55
  And they're like, yeah, here's a bunch of acres, and
• 1:12:57
  you've got to prove it up. Dig a hole in
• 1:13:00
  the ground is what they're living in, a dugout. Dig
• 1:13:03
  a hole in the ground, that's where you're living, and
• 1:13:05
  you try to build a ranch out of it. I
• 1:13:07
  always laugh when I talk to them. family or my
• 1:13:10
  grandparents I was like why did y'all stop here you
• 1:13:14
  just like you were so beat down you're like oh
• 1:13:17
  this is the driest flattest place you know but we're
• 1:13:21
  here the most roughest you know I was like it's
• 1:13:23
  only maybe another thousand miles out to California or just
• 1:13:27
  keep going they're like nope this is it we're done
• 1:13:29
  you know.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah I guess people didn't know what they were gonna
• 1:13:33
  find if they kept going either like you want to
• 1:13:35
  keep going for like another.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Month Oh, yeah, just miles and miles of more desert
• 1:13:40
  and no water.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, how long would that wagon trail take?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Weeks. Even just like Missouri, Texas, and now to— even like
• 1:13:51
  just going through west Texas to get to southeast New
• 1:13:54
  Mexico and all that. That's just rough country, and the
• 1:13:58
  people have always been tough out there.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: To survive out there.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: And you're a sitting duck. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: You're a sitting duck. You're slow moving with a wagon
• 1:14:06
  pulling the horn. You got all your shit in the
• 1:14:07
  wagon and they just looking at you from the hills. Yeah.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Wasn't glamorous.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I know my, you know, my granddad was pretty tough
• 1:14:18
  old guy and is real a cowboy as you'd ever
• 1:14:21
  want to know or meet, you know, but he wasn't
• 1:14:25
  really one to ever brag or, you know, talk or
• 1:14:27
  fantasize or romanticize about the cowboy stuff, you know, because it,
• 1:14:31
  It wasn't romantic then. It was survival, and it was rough,
• 1:14:36
  and it was work, and you had no running water.
• 1:14:39
  I remember him having a conversation with this guy, and
• 1:14:43
  he was like a tech guy. He invented all this
• 1:14:46
  website shit or whatever, and he was asking my granddad,
• 1:14:49
  he said, what's the most important invention of your lifetime?
• 1:14:52
  And I think he was expecting my granddad to say
• 1:14:55
  the computer or the internet, and my granddad said refrigeration.
• 1:15:00
  was the most important invention, you know? When he was
• 1:15:03
  growing up, he was like, they had no way to
• 1:15:05
  keep their food cold, you know, other than like a
• 1:15:07
  root cellar, you kept it underground, you know? So it
• 1:15:11
  was just a perspective, you know, I think everybody was
• 1:15:13
  surprised to hear it. Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I think people are so accustomed to electricity and
• 1:15:17
  so accustomed to things like refrigeration.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just like running water. Yeah.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when there was no refrigeration, you
• 1:15:25
  had to eat what you had. You know, like that day,
• 1:15:28
  and then the next day you had to get something else.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: And unless you knew a place that was an ice house,
• 1:15:36
  you know, that would get a giant chunk of ice
• 1:15:39
  and you could have an ice box and stick it
• 1:15:41
  in there and cool things. Like, you're fucked.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You're on your own.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you had to learn how to dry meat.
• 1:15:49
  That was a lot of it. Make pemmican, dry meat,
• 1:15:52
  make things that'll survive and last forever. And, you know,
• 1:15:58
  that's also how market hunting almost wiped out all the
• 1:16:01
  deer in this country because people needed fresh meat every day.
• 1:16:05
  So they were just shooting everything that existed.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: And then finally they started looking around and going, hey,
• 1:16:11
  we lost all the elk. There's no more deer left. Like,
• 1:16:14
  let's make some fucking regulations on this shit. And they
• 1:16:17
  stopped market hunting.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: I did not know that.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's interesting. Beginning of the 1800s by, you know,
• 1:16:25
  the time, I guess... When did they start doing regulations
• 1:16:30
  in terms of hunting regulations in this country? Because obviously
• 1:16:34
  they wiped out almost entirely the American bison. They were
• 1:16:39
  almost gone completely. And, you know, a lot of that
• 1:16:41
  was just for tongues.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: No, man, that's crazy.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would send them back east. They would pickle
• 1:16:47
  their tongues.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Didn't Steve Rinella have a show on? My buddy was
• 1:16:51
  telling me.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: He's got a great book, too.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet. It's really interesting. He's talking
• 1:16:54
  about the history of the bison and hunting and all
• 1:16:56
  of that, yeah.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think his book is called American Buffalo, but
• 1:16:59
  it's really good. First hunting regulations appeared in colonial laws
• 1:17:05
  in the 1600s, mainly as seasonal closed seasons for certain
• 1:17:09
  game like deer. In terms of nationwide U.S. law, the
• 1:17:13
  first major federal game protection statute was the Lacey Act
• 1:17:16
  of 1900, which targeted commercial and market hunting and interstate
• 1:17:21
  trade in illegally taken wildlife. Yeah, there was elk in
• 1:17:26
  every state. And we wiped them out. And there was
• 1:17:29
  deer in every state. But now there's more deer than
• 1:17:32
  there ever has been before, which is interesting. Congress passed
• 1:17:36
  the Lacey Act when modern regulations start. So the 1900s,
• 1:17:42
  most states had game and fish commissions, hunting seasons, bag
• 1:17:46
  limits and license requirements, all reinforced by federal laws like
• 1:17:50
  the Lacey Act and later migratory bird protections. Well, it's
• 1:17:56
  amazing that they did that. We have an amazing system, too.
• 1:17:59
  Like the fact that the United States has so much
• 1:18:02
  public land. You know, there's so many different places where
• 1:18:05
  people can go and they can hike. They can whitewater raft.
• 1:18:09
  They can fish. They can hunt. They can camp. I mean,
• 1:18:12
  we're unlike any country when it comes to that. It's
• 1:18:15
  like the amount of land that we have that's available
• 1:18:19
  to Americans, that it's public for everybody, is fucking incredible.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, being up in Montana, New Mexico is
• 1:18:26
  like that, too, in California. But up in Montana, you know,
• 1:18:29
  staying in that wilderness area, like that little cabin that
• 1:18:32
  I stayed in, you know, probably didn't have much land
• 1:18:35
  with the cabin. But, man, there's thousands and thousands of
• 1:18:39
  acres of wilderness public land with dirt roads everywhere. And, man,
• 1:18:43
  I would, you know, on those days off that I had,
• 1:18:46
  I would just drive back in there for miles. man,
• 1:18:50
  and just see the most beautiful country, you know, and,
• 1:18:53
  and I'd haul my horse back in the way of
• 1:18:55
  the trail heads and just go explore stuff, you know,
• 1:18:57
  and you had to go over one ridge into the
• 1:19:01
  next and there's a waterfall and there's, and there's another drainage.
• 1:19:04
  And it's just like, You know, and this is the
• 1:19:06
  wilderness area, too. This isn't even a national park. You know,
• 1:19:09
  it's like, man, this is as beautiful country as I've
• 1:19:13
  ever seen anywhere.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Did you run into any grizzlies?
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: I never did. You know, I was always on my
• 1:19:18
  toes about it. And I'd talk, you know, knowing Remy
• 1:19:21
  up there, he knew that area really well. So I'd
• 1:19:23
  kind of ask him spots to go check out and
• 1:19:26
  about bears and stuff. And he said, man, there weren't
• 1:19:28
  too many grizzlies back in there, but you never know,
• 1:19:30
  you know, especially coming over from Idaho and stuff like that.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: I never did. I've run into some black bears, never
• 1:19:37
  in any wolves and all that, but I don't know,
• 1:19:42
  maybe being horseback too.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: A lot of those places I never did, but I
• 1:19:47
  definitely had my eyes open.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another animal that they want to list again
• 1:19:53
  and make them available for hunting, particularly in Montana and Wyoming.
• 1:19:58
  They just have a lot of grizzlies. They have a lot,
• 1:20:01
  and people don't want They think of it as trophy
• 1:20:04
  hunting or whatever it is.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: It's tough, man. But, man, you live, like you say,
• 1:20:08
  like those folks that live back up in there. You know,
• 1:20:11
  all they have is their neighbors and people to depend on,
• 1:20:14
  you know. And it's like, man, you get mauled by
• 1:20:16
  a bear taking your trash out. Crazy. Or something like that.
• 1:20:18
  That's what your experience is with them. And, you know,
• 1:20:23
  everybody wants to keep them as pets until they're in
• 1:20:25
  the backyard with you.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They don't play by the rules. They don't play
• 1:20:30
  by the rules and they're 900 pounds. Good luck. That
• 1:20:34
  900-pound giant fucking wild animal that eats everything it can.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even like that lion hanging around my house. It's like, man, cool,
• 1:20:42
  you're fine, but why don't you go on down the road,
• 1:20:43
  you know?
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: I don't need you in my backyard.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: The thing is that you can't do anything about it either.
• 1:20:50
  In Texas, you could just shoot them.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we don't have that problem.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it should be.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: Like, you shouldn't have wild monsters living in your yard.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: No. And you should have the right to decide that
• 1:21:04
  for yourself.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Not only that, they're going to be fine.
• 1:21:07
  There's still going to be plenty of them. Yeah.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: But it'll probably be a more healthy number if they
• 1:21:11
  get whacked whenever they eat someone's dog.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And have a healthy respect for coming in your
• 1:21:16
  backyard or coming after your animals or your kids.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They should understand that. But just like we're so goofy.
• 1:21:24
  We make laws to protect them that don't protect us. Like,
• 1:21:30
  help me out. Like, do you love animals more than people? Like,
• 1:21:34
  I love animals, but I'm on team people. Yeah.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Everybody else is cool, but team people first. Yeah.
• 1:21:42
  You know, oh, we got monsters in our neighborhood? No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:21:46
  We got to kill the monsters so the kids can
• 1:21:48
  play outside. You don't have to worry about them getting eaten. Yeah,
• 1:21:51
  me too.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, growing up. ranching or farming or whatever i
• 1:21:55
  mean that's your job is to take care of animals
• 1:21:57
  you know yes animal husbandry it's it's that's your job
• 1:22:01
  i mean to take care and provide for these animals
• 1:22:05
  to provide food for your family you know and um
• 1:22:08
  and the wildlife that's around it you know it's like
• 1:22:11
  and to take care of the land and the dirt
• 1:22:13
  and the water and the grasses and all of that
• 1:22:16
  stuff has to be supporting each other to make it
• 1:22:19
  all work you know And at the end of the day,
• 1:22:22
  I just feel like we've just lost touch with that.
• 1:22:25
  It's cities.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: It's urban environments. It's unnatural environments that have given people
• 1:22:30
  this delusional idea of what our relationship is with nature. And,
• 1:22:35
  you know, people just think food comes from a restaurant.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: And, you know, the ground is for streets. And you
• 1:22:42
  drive around. Sidewalks. Yeah. Just pave it all. It's all
• 1:22:45
  just this delusional perspective that comes from that sort of
• 1:22:49
  urban existence. And I just think that's why people that
• 1:22:52
  live in the country and live in, you know, environments
• 1:22:56
  like Alaska where you're confronted by nature, they're like more
• 1:23:00
  interesting people. They're more robust. They're cooler. Were you saying
• 1:23:05
  out there earlier that you rode bulls? Mm-hmm.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Dude. How many times?
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: Shoot, I started when I was a kid, you know,
• 1:23:15
  riding steers when I was like 10 in the junior
• 1:23:17
  rodeos and then.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: You were 10 years old and someone let you ride
• 1:23:21
  a fucking steer?
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: That's so crazy.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: It was like Little League Baseball, you know, when I
• 1:23:26
  grew up.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: So a steer is a bull that doesn't have its nuts. Yeah.
• 1:23:33
  And so how much less do they kick when they
• 1:23:35
  don't have their nuts?
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're pretty docile. Is this you? Oh, you found
• 1:23:39
  the video.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: How old are you here?
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: This is, I was like 17. This is in Monterey, Mexico, actually.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: Wow. Why in Mexico? Look at you, dog. Damn, that's crazy. Damn, dude,
• 1:23:56
  you're good. And you got off without getting stomped, too.
• 1:24:00
  Is it just knowing when to release?
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to know when to get off, that's
• 1:24:05
  for sure.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: And right there, you're like, that's a wrap.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of bucked me off there. He kind
• 1:24:11
  of had me over to the side there, you know,
• 1:24:12
  but that's a good time to check out. There's like
• 1:24:15
  that gray zone, you know. Either that or you hang
• 1:24:18
  on and you end up underneath them.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: You started out when you were 10 years old, though.
• 1:24:21
  How wild are your parents? Like, yeah, that's a good age.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they, you know, they ranched and grew up
• 1:24:27
  out there, and my uncle rode bulls professionally.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kind of how I got into it, too.
• 1:24:34
  I looked up to him a lot and see pictures
• 1:24:37
  of him riding bulls, and then it was just around,
• 1:24:39
  and I was like, I want to go try that,
• 1:24:41
  you know, and then I just got the bug for it, like,
• 1:24:44
  super young. I was like, just, ate up with it
• 1:24:47
  just wow.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: From 10 years old that's nuts yeah and so how
• 1:24:52
  do you teach someone how to fall off of a
• 1:24:54
  bull without getting stomped when they're.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: 10 well when you're riding those little steers you know
• 1:24:58
  a lot of time they cut bulls and turn them
• 1:25:01
  to steers because it makes them a lot more docile
• 1:25:03
  steers are you know typically like 600 pounds 600 700
• 1:25:08
  pounds you know compared to 1500 pound bull that's aggressive
• 1:25:12
  and you know back that wide and horns like that
• 1:25:15
  you know They're like little steer, you know. I remember
• 1:25:18
  my dad or uncle would get in the chute with
• 1:25:20
  me and hold their horns, you know. And, like, they
• 1:25:23
  just kind of run out there and jump and kick
• 1:25:25
  and fall off on the side. Yeah, not too bad.
• 1:25:28
  And then you kind of graduate up into, like, the
• 1:25:31
  junior bulls and then the bigger bulls and then the
• 1:25:35
  harder they buck, you know. So there's kind of different
• 1:25:38
  levels you can progress as you go. But it was
• 1:25:42
  a lot different deal back then when I was riding.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: Really before the PBR started, you know, there was no helmets.
• 1:25:47
  There was no vests. There was, like, none of that stuff.
• 1:25:49
  It was just old school rodeo, you know. But at
• 1:25:53
  the same time, I say that, but, you know, it's
• 1:25:58
  evolved in such a sport now. Like, the bulls are
• 1:26:00
  just so much ranker now than they were back then,
• 1:26:02
  you know. It's like now they're breeding them like racehorses
• 1:26:05
  and the genetics where every one of those bulls, you know, bucks,
• 1:26:09
  you know, and like, you got to go to get
• 1:26:11
  on three or four of them in the night, you know,
• 1:26:13
  back when I was doing it, we'd go to the,
• 1:26:15
  they were still kind of full rodeos with all the
• 1:26:17
  other events. And, you know, out of 15 or 20 bulls,
• 1:26:20
  there might be one or two in there that were
• 1:26:22
  like bad to get on. They would hurt you, you know, the,
• 1:26:25
  the rest of them were, were pretty rideable, you know,
• 1:26:27
  just to say so. And, you know, we're smoking cigarettes
• 1:26:31
  and drinking beer back behind the sheets. So, you know,
• 1:26:33
  that kind of a thing, you know, we, we, We
• 1:26:35
  weren't training and doing yoga. I like how these guys
• 1:26:41
  are today. I loved it. I had so much fun,
• 1:26:44
  and I loved the road part of it. Get in
• 1:26:47
  the truck with your best buds and go down the
• 1:26:50
  road on the weekends, and there's always a band playing.
• 1:26:53
  It was so much fun. I loved the culture of it.
• 1:26:57
  It was just good times.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: How many times do you think you've rode bulls?
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: I rode until I was about 23.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: From 10 to 23. Wow.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: That was all I ever wanted to do. Really?
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: I wanted to just ride bulls. Yeah. And, uh, you know,
• 1:27:14
  I rode in high school, rode junior rodeos, rode bulls
• 1:27:16
  at high school. And then I went to Tarleton state
• 1:27:19
  and Stephenville and, uh, rode bulls for Tarleton. And then
• 1:27:23
  I got my pro card for a couple of years.
• 1:27:26
  And that was when like the PBR was like starting
• 1:27:28
  up and all of that.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: And, um, Wow.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: It got intense. I just saw a picture of you
• 1:27:35
  backwards on one.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: What, Jamie? There's one picture I just lost.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: He was backwards on it. Oh, yeah. I was probably
• 1:27:40
  getting dusted. Oh, no, that's not me.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: That's not backwards.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: That guy is riding backwards.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: That's on purpose.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: That seems like a ridiculous choice.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: He pulled it off if he did.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: What a terrible choice.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: It was cool, though. I loved it, man. I loved it.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: How do you go from that to anything else? Like,
• 1:28:08
  how do you stop riding bulls and eventually become an
• 1:28:12
  actor and a singer?
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: It was all very much kind of a natural progression,
• 1:28:17
  you know. Really? Since I was a kid at the
• 1:28:18
  junior rodeos, there was always a dance afterward and a
• 1:28:21
  band playing, you know. And it was very much a family,
• 1:28:24
  community deal, you know. Like, you go to these towns,
• 1:28:27
  and the rodeo was going on, and then the dance
• 1:28:28
  was going on. street dance and food and music and
• 1:28:35
  growing up listening to bands play, especially in Texas. You know,
• 1:28:37
  you got all the guys like Gary P. Nunn. I
• 1:28:39
  remember he always played the dance halls and you get
• 1:28:43
  Robert O'Keen and some of the, you know, growing up
• 1:28:45
  hearing those bands. And, um, I moved to Laredo, Texas
• 1:28:50
  when I was like 16 or 17 when my dad
• 1:28:52
  and my mother had bought me a guitar and, uh,
• 1:28:56
  didn't know how to play it much. And, uh, walked
• 1:28:59
  into this place my dad was living at and he
• 1:29:01
  was playing dominoes with these guys and this guy saw
• 1:29:04
  my guitar and he's like, yeah, you know how to
• 1:29:06
  play that thing?
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: I said, no.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: And he said, well, let me see it. And he
• 1:29:09
  picked it up and he played this killer, like, mariachi
• 1:29:11
  song called La Malagueña. And I was just fascinated with it.
• 1:29:15
  I was just like, wow, I can't believe he made
• 1:29:17
  that guitar sound like that, you know? I've been dragging
• 1:29:20
  that thing around for a couple years. I don't even
• 1:29:21
  know how to tune it up. And he's like, you
• 1:29:24
  want to learn how to play this guitar? I said, yeah.
• 1:29:26
  He said, let me show you this song. He taught
• 1:29:28
  me the Malagaña. It had a couple little parts, you know,
• 1:29:31
  a finger-picking part, a strumming part, and it really kind
• 1:29:35
  of gave me that foundation, you know, just kind of
• 1:29:38
  those few little tools. And then I went up to
• 1:29:40
  Stephenville to ride bulls at Tarleton after that, and a
• 1:29:44
  couple of other friends that I'd met there that rodeoed
• 1:29:46
  could play the guitar a little bit, and they had
• 1:29:48
  bands that played every weekend in the town. There was
• 1:29:51
  a little bar there called City Limits where all these
• 1:29:53
  bands would come play, like Jason Bolin and the cross-Canadian
• 1:29:56
  ragweed guys and Pat Green and Robert Earl Keene, like
• 1:30:01
  all the Texas guys would come play, you know. So
• 1:30:02
  I was like, I went from being on the border
• 1:30:05
  to kind of just mostly like the Carrillos and Tejano
• 1:30:08
  bands that I would see, which was really cool. But
• 1:30:10
  when I got up there, I was like, oh, man,
• 1:30:11
  there's all these like cool kind of song, you know,
• 1:30:14
  guys writing their original music and songs and playing in bands.
• 1:30:18
  And we'd go watch them all the time. And as
• 1:30:22
  I was still rodeoing, the only song I knew was that,
• 1:30:26
  Mahla Gang the tune so I was like I gotta
• 1:30:28
  come up with some new stuff is all I know
• 1:30:29
  how to play you know so I went and got
• 1:30:31
  a book of chords to teach myself some new chords
• 1:30:34
  on the guitar and just learn one or two at
• 1:30:36
  a time and I'd start making up songs about our
• 1:30:38
  adventures on the weekends you know a lot of it
• 1:30:41
  was just sitting in the back of the truck and
• 1:30:43
  being in places where you didn't have radio signal or
• 1:30:45
  you know nothing to really listen to you're tired of
• 1:30:48
  listening to the same old stuff and I'd make up
• 1:30:50
  songs and then whatever town we would get to my
• 1:30:53
  buddies be like man play that song you were singing
• 1:30:55
  in the back seat you know and and so that's
• 1:30:57
  how the whole songwriting thing started and then um i
• 1:31:01
  ended up getting a job working for a guy named
• 1:31:03
  mac altizer he had a rodeo company called bag company
• 1:31:06
  rodeo in del rio and i'd ridden bulls at some
• 1:31:10
  of his rodeos and knew him my uncle knew him
• 1:31:13
  you know over the years and so i was kind
• 1:31:14
  of familiar with with uh that whole thing and uh
• 1:31:18
  Started working for him on the ranch and helping with
• 1:31:21
  some of the rodeo stuff and still riding bulls. And
• 1:31:24
  he found out that I could play the guitar and
• 1:31:26
  sing a few songs. And he always had a party
• 1:31:29
  at the rodeo. He was kind of notorious and famous
• 1:31:31
  for having, like, just awesome parties. And he's like, man,
• 1:31:33
  all right, Bingham, get your guitar. You're going to play, like,
• 1:31:36
  the after party. You know, and pulled a flatbed trailer
• 1:31:38
  up there for the hospitality tent for all the contestants
• 1:31:41
  after the rodeo. And those are, like, the first. He
• 1:31:44
  really encouraged me to, like, start playing for people and
• 1:31:47
  doing that. and then it would just spill over into
• 1:31:49
  the bars afterwards after the rodeo and everybody would end
• 1:31:51
  up going to the bar. And I was like, Bingham,
• 1:31:54
  bring your guitar with you. And, uh, I started getting
• 1:31:57
  gigs in the bars. The bars would ask me to,
• 1:31:59
  if I wanted to come back and play. And just
• 1:32:01
  after like, I feel like a few years of that,
• 1:32:04
  it was just like, you know, I was kind of
• 1:32:07
  a weekend warrior riding bulls. I was definitely not going
• 1:32:09
  to making a living doing it. Always had to have
• 1:32:12
  a day job during the week, you know, either working
• 1:32:14
  on the ranch or doing something. And, uh, I started
• 1:32:18
  getting to where I could go to these bars and
• 1:32:19
  make like a hundred bucks in tips, you know, within
• 1:32:22
  a couple of hours and get free beer and free food.
• 1:32:25
  And I was like, man, this is almost as much
• 1:32:27
  as I made all day digging holes with the shovel.
• 1:32:30
  It didn't take me long to figure out that that
• 1:32:33
  was pretty cool. And I was just like, I'm going
• 1:32:36
  to stick with it.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: What an organic sort of a journey, you know, like
• 1:32:41
  a natural progression.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I didn't have high expectations, you know, but
• 1:32:46
  I just like, And I was talking about kind of
• 1:32:49
  community in this Austin area and in Texas in general.
• 1:32:52
  It's just like, man, people were so supportive then. I'm
• 1:32:54
  just like, if you had a song to play it,
• 1:32:56
  people love live music. They're like, yeah, get up and play,
• 1:32:58
  you know, like Mac with the rodeo company and all
• 1:33:02
  the guys that worked there, Dave Jennings and Casey and Smyrna.
• 1:33:06
  There's a whole crew of the bad company crew from
• 1:33:08
  those days. And they always had kind of the bad
• 1:33:10
  company house band too, where everybody would get up and
• 1:33:12
  try to play a song. And it's just like, man,
• 1:33:14
  we don't, care if it's any good or not, just
• 1:33:16
  get up there and play. We're all, we're all in
• 1:33:18
  it together. And there were so many like places that
• 1:33:20
  were like that, that I don't think if I was
• 1:33:22
  in that environment, I probably would have never pursued it.
• 1:33:25
  You know, I said so many people, you know, supporting
• 1:33:28
  you and encouraging you to try it. And it took
• 1:33:30
  me a long time, you know, to, uh, work stuff
• 1:33:34
  out and learn. Cause I didn't have any really formal music,
• 1:33:37
  musical background or lessons or training. I had to really
• 1:33:40
  just learned it on the road and playing in bars and,
• 1:33:43
  from other.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: Musicians, you know. Really?
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: So no lessons at all? No. Just kind of figuring
• 1:33:48
  it out along the way? Yeah.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: Well, they got, you know, the guy taught me the
• 1:33:52
  La Malagana there, but then after that it was just,
• 1:33:55
  you know, anybody else who had a guitar and might
• 1:33:58
  know a song, you know, I'm like, oh, what chord,
• 1:33:59
  how do you play that chord? You know, like, oh,
• 1:34:01
  you play it like this, you know.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. So how many years were you doing that
• 1:34:09
  before you got Yellowstone?
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh, for a while. I mean, I think my,
• 1:34:16
  you know, I was 22 or something like that in Stephenville.
• 1:34:22
  You know, Ryan Bull was starting to play songs, trying
• 1:34:24
  to play gigs. After, you know, ended up moving down
• 1:34:31
  here to New Braunfels in the Austin area playing music
• 1:34:34
  for a while and then ended up going out to
• 1:34:36
  Los Angeles and playing and then hit the road with
• 1:34:38
  a band for, I think I had four or five
• 1:34:42
  albums or so. You know, out, you know, I've been
• 1:34:44
  touring for five or six years. I think, how old
• 1:34:48
  was I, like, when Yellowstone started? Like, 36, 37. So, yeah,
• 1:34:55
  I'd been playing, doing the music stuff for a long time.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: And so how did the Yellowstone, how'd you go from
• 1:35:01
  music to Yellowstone? Like, how'd you even, did you do
• 1:35:04
  any acting before that?
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: No, I'd been one of, I'd done a film with
• 1:35:08
  Jeff Bridges years ago called Crazy Heart and wrote some
• 1:35:11
  songs for that movie. And that was really my own thing.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: That was a good movie.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. You know, I w I was
• 1:35:18
  just like, uh, Jeff Bridges plays a musician in the
• 1:35:22
  show and I, and we're like the backup band at
• 1:35:24
  the bowling alley for one of the scenes, you know,
• 1:35:27
  which was really cool. Um, and then, uh, written some
• 1:35:31
  songs for some other films and some TV shows since then.
• 1:35:34
  And I, uh, met a guy named John Linson out in, uh,
• 1:35:38
  in Los Angeles, a producer and his him and, His dad,
• 1:35:41
  Art Lentz, and they did like Sons of Anarchy, a
• 1:35:44
  bunch of shows and a bunch of great movies. And
• 1:35:48
  he introduced me to Taylor. And Taylor was, I think
• 1:35:52
  it was that movie Wind River, his first movie. I'd
• 1:35:54
  met Taylor and just kind of talk about music and stuff.
• 1:35:58
  And he wanted me to write a song for Wind River.
• 1:36:00
  And I'd given it a shot a couple times, never
• 1:36:03
  really had anything that fit for what he wanted. But
• 1:36:05
  he ended up using a song that I'd already written.
• 1:36:08
  And we just kind of kept in touch. And then
• 1:36:10
  when the Yellowstone thing came up, he got in touch
• 1:36:13
  again about writing some songs for the show. And then
• 1:36:16
  he learned that I used to do all the rodeo stuff,
• 1:36:18
  I think, and grew up ranching. And he's like, well, shoot,
• 1:36:20
  you can do a lot of this stuff. I've got
• 1:36:22
  to find a way to get you in the show,
• 1:36:24
  you know. And it literally went from the conversation. He
• 1:36:28
  was like, well, I don't know what I'm going to
• 1:36:29
  do with you, but I'll find something to do with you,
• 1:36:32
  you know. And he literally said, he's like, you know,
• 1:36:34
  if you do good, I'll, you know, you guys, if
• 1:36:36
  you suck, I'll kill you off. If you do good,
• 1:36:39
  I'll keep you on. Something like that, you know, and
• 1:36:42
  I'm like, yeah, good.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: So you have no formal acting, like, training or anything?
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: That's what's amazing, dude. No. You're really good.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, I appreciate that, you know. I get to kind
• 1:36:54
  of play a cowboy and be a little bit of myself.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's, that role's got some complexity to it.
• 1:37:01
  It's not just a cowboy. It's like, you've got some
• 1:37:04
  complicated scenes, you know, some emotional scenes, some deep scenes,
• 1:37:08
  and you're really good, man.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: That's impressive.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I enjoyed it, you know, I hadn't
• 1:37:14
  done much acting at all, and I gotta give a
• 1:37:18
  lot of credit to the actors that are on the show, too,
• 1:37:20
  you know, those folks that have really studied it and
• 1:37:23
  paid their dues learning that craft, you know, they really
• 1:37:27
  create the environment, you know, especially for me not knowing
• 1:37:31
  much about it, you know, and just kind of being
• 1:37:32
  a part of the scene, like, they're so good that
• 1:37:35
  they make you react in a certain way.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: You know, they, they know how to get it out
• 1:37:39
  of you.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: You know, Cole and Luke and all those folks, you know,
• 1:37:44
  they're like, they, they know how to set up the
• 1:37:46
  scene and they know what they're doing. So they already
• 1:37:47
  kind of have the whole thing set up. And so
• 1:37:50
  when I walk into a scene and they say they're
• 1:37:53
  lying to me, it's just like, Oh, okay. Yeah.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: I got to answer. Right.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: I like, I'm just like, kind of like naturally answering that,
• 1:38:00
  you know? Right. Right.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like, If you work with a really good actor,
• 1:38:04
  sometimes you forget they're acting. You're like, oh, yeah, we're acting.
• 1:38:09
  You seem like this is really happening. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: For me, I think it was moments where I thought
• 1:38:14
  it was really happening.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: How long did it take before you got comfortable doing
• 1:38:18
  that on camera? Still not. Really?
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, still not, yeah.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: Well, you play it off good. Well, thanks.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: You know. I think some of it comes from the
• 1:38:27
  riding bulls. You know, you learn how to channel that
• 1:38:29
  anxiety or fear into just like, oh, okay, it's go time.
• 1:38:32
  Let's just kind of pull it together and channel that,
• 1:38:36
  you know.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: If you could ride a bull, I think you could
• 1:38:39
  kind of do basically anything.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: Man, you know, that's one thing my uncle taught me
• 1:38:44
  when I was young. You know, he was really quick
• 1:38:46
  to be like, man, it doesn't matter how strong you are.
• 1:38:49
  You know, it's not about, it's all mental, it's all
• 1:38:51
  in your mind, and it's all, it's not I think
• 1:38:55
  I can, it's I know I can and I will.
• 1:38:58
  You know, and he goes, if you don't believe that
• 1:39:01
  every time you go put your rope on one of those,
• 1:39:03
  on their backs, he's like, it ain't gonna happen. You know,
• 1:39:06
  he says, it's not being cocky, it's just being confident,
• 1:39:10
  you know, and believing in yourself and having that power
• 1:39:15
  of mind over matter, you know.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you could do that, acting's easy.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: And take that into anything in life.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I do.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: I definitely have moments where, you know, I'm like, whew, okay,
• 1:39:27
  take a deep breath.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: It's go time. Let's go, you know.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: Well, especially having more than a decade of doing that
• 1:39:34
  with bulls. Mm-hmm. Like, that's so uncontrollable. Like, it is
• 1:39:40
  like you're at the mercy of fate and how this
• 1:39:44
  plays out.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: And you have this enormous beast, and you've chosen— to
• 1:39:49
  scare the shit out of yourself, get on top of
• 1:39:51
  this thing and try to ride it.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: You chose it to join the dance.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: If you can do that, if you can do that
• 1:39:57
  and be successful at that, I kind of think you
• 1:39:59
  could do anything. I think that, I mean, I wouldn't
• 1:40:02
  want my kid to do it at 10, but fuck,
• 1:40:04
  it's probably, if they could survive. Pretty valuable.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: I laugh. I really picked two of the easiest professions,
• 1:40:10
  you know, like riding bulls and playing music.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: Right, two that have the least amount of success ratio.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: Impossible tasks.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, did you ever get any serious injuries?
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I was fortunate, like, not serious. There was
• 1:40:29
  one of the worst I ever got. I knocked all
• 1:40:31
  these teeth out, and I got jerked down one night
• 1:40:33
  in Weatherford. Yeah. took my lip off and my teeth
• 1:40:36
  went through down here and these are all fake up
• 1:40:39
  here and then my lip was just hanging right there
• 1:40:42
  what was why it didn't knock me out which was
• 1:40:43
  wild though i got on this bull and uh i
• 1:40:47
  remember it was in weatherford texas and uh it's got
• 1:40:51
  a butler arena there and he had this um little
• 1:40:55
  angus bull there didn't have horns on him little muley
• 1:40:58
  and uh usually you can go up to the guys
• 1:41:00
  that own the bulls and a lot of the bulls
• 1:41:01
  have patterns you know that they that they'll do over
• 1:41:04
  and over, you know, so you can kind of talk
• 1:41:05
  to the stock contractor or the guys that own them
• 1:41:07
  and be like, hey, you know, what's this bull generally do?
• 1:41:10
  And he's like, ah, most of the time they'll take
• 1:41:12
  two jumps out and they spin to the left or
• 1:41:13
  they take two jumps and they go to the right or, oh,
• 1:41:15
  they just, you know, they'll jump kick around and make
• 1:41:18
  a circle. And he goes, man, he goes, I don't know.
• 1:41:20
  He's like, the last two times I bucked, he hadn't
• 1:41:23
  been ridden. He usually jumps out there and just spins
• 1:41:25
  right in the gate. And he said, nobody's really ridden
• 1:41:27
  him past three or four seconds. So he goes, I
• 1:41:29
  don't know what he's going to do after that. And
• 1:41:31
  sure enough, That's what happened. I got on him and
• 1:41:34
  he jumped out and just got it on right there
• 1:41:37
  in the gate, just spinning right there. And I rode
• 1:41:39
  him through it like three or four rounds. And after
• 1:41:42
  I rode him, like, I think the bully didn't know
• 1:41:44
  what to do next. He got a little frustrated and
• 1:41:46
  he just stopped and just stopped dead still and just
• 1:41:50
  blowing and just, you know, just mad. And you never
• 1:41:54
  really want to jump off of them when they're still
• 1:41:56
  like that. Cause you just, you'll fall right beside.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: Them, you know?
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: So you want them to have a little momentum. So
• 1:42:01
  when you, you know, you're checking out, they can, you
• 1:42:03
  can get away from them.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: And so I spurred him a little bit to get
• 1:42:07
  him to jump. So when he jumped, I could jump off.
• 1:42:10
  But when I spurred him, it just jumped off straight
• 1:42:13
  up off the ground, like a cat off all fours.
• 1:42:16
  And when he came crack and when he jumped up
• 1:42:18
  like that, I, you know, kind of rocked me back
• 1:42:20
  on back like that. My hand's still tied in the rope.
• 1:42:23
  And then when he came down, he just brought all
• 1:42:25
  that jerk me down with the fours. And I came
• 1:42:27
  forward and he threw his head back and I just
• 1:42:29
  head butted him. And I, And when he did, my
• 1:42:34
  hand was still caught in the rope, and then he
• 1:42:36
  took off running around and just drug me around and
• 1:42:38
  just stomped the crap out of me, you know, for
• 1:42:41
  a bit. And I finally got loose, and I remember
• 1:42:44
  running over to the fence, and I just kind of
• 1:42:47
  had my arms on the fence, and I could see
• 1:42:49
  all the blood just kind of pouring down all over me.
• 1:42:51
  And one of the bullfighters ran up, and he looks
• 1:42:54
  at me and goes, Oh, buddy. He's like, whoo.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: So they have to stitch your lip back on?
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the shock was just, I didn't feel anything.
• 1:43:06
  I was just in shock. I was like, oh, man.
• 1:43:09
  I remember my girlfriend was there from high school and
• 1:43:11
  my buddy, and we drove to the little, they're like,
• 1:43:15
  you want us to call an ambulance? I was like, no,
• 1:43:16
  I don't have health insurance. I'm going to call an ambulance.
• 1:43:21
  Got in my buddy's car, and we drove her over
• 1:43:22
  to the emergency room in Weatherford, and I go in,
• 1:43:26
  and the nurse, she's just like, oh, man. She's like,
• 1:43:28
  we can't do anything for you here. you're going to
• 1:43:30
  have to go to like Dallas to like trauma. You know,
• 1:43:33
  you have to get like an oral surgeon to put
• 1:43:34
  you back together. And she goes, you want me to,
• 1:43:38
  you know, get you an ambulance there? And I was like, no,
• 1:43:41
  I think we can make it. You know, she's like,
• 1:43:43
  she gave me some pain pills. She goes, don't take
• 1:43:45
  these now. She goes, hold on to these. And then
• 1:43:47
  when you get to Dallas, then take them because you're
• 1:43:50
  probably going to have to wait, you know, before they can,
• 1:43:52
  because it's three or four in the morning. where they
• 1:43:55
  can get somebody in there to see us and sure
• 1:43:57
  enough we got to Dallas and I'm just sitting there
• 1:43:59
  in the weight room and I had a rag and
• 1:44:01
  I was just holding my mouth together and the shock
• 1:44:05
  wore off man and then it's you know I was
• 1:44:08
  starting to feel it took those pain meds and then
• 1:44:12
  doctor came in and held me back and gave me
• 1:44:14
  a big shot in the roof of my mouth tried
• 1:44:17
  to numb everything and just I think it took them
• 1:44:19
  longer to clean it all up you know pull all
• 1:44:21
  the hair and dirt out of there and sew me
• 1:44:23
  up and Oh, it was an ordeal, you know, for sure.
• 1:44:27
  For months after that, you know, getting the dental work
• 1:44:30
  done and all that crap.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: So how was the lip hanging off?
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: It bit it. It would have came all the way off.
• 1:44:38
  It was just hanging on right here by the side,
• 1:44:40
  so it was just hanging down.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: And so they just had to stitch the lower part
• 1:44:43
  to the upper part and put it all together again?
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just all across, right through the middle. If I shave,
• 1:44:48
  I got a big scar that kind of goes down there.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: And then they went through down here. So I got
• 1:44:53
  some stitches down there, and then most of the stitches
• 1:44:55
  were all in my gums and all of that.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: So they had to put like posts and implants and
• 1:45:00
  all that stuff? Wow. Yeah. That shit takes forever, huh?
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: Kind of knocked the front four out, and then it
• 1:45:06
  just dominoed the rest of them.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: Riding bulls with no health insurance is wild. That's crazy, man.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just life back then for me. I
• 1:45:23
  think going into the music stuff was like, I don't know.
• 1:45:28
  I just wasn't really scared about it or even the
• 1:45:31
  expectations of making it. I mean, to me, at the time,
• 1:45:33
  I had a truck and a camper on it, and
• 1:45:36
  I was like, man, I got no bills. I got
• 1:45:39
  no responsibilities. I'm just like, go make $ 100 a night
• 1:45:42
  playing music in a bar. I was like, this is
• 1:45:44
  the dream.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: I made it. Yeah. Well, I think when you've done
• 1:45:50
  something super, super difficult, everything else seems easier. And if
• 1:45:56
  you've done what you did with riding bulls for that long,
• 1:45:59
  like the music business is like, that's the worst that
• 1:46:02
  could happen. Yeah.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: Even the travel part, you know, like, you know, in
• 1:46:05
  the early days of playing, when I really decided I
• 1:46:08
  was going to try to make a run and play,
• 1:46:10
  you know, and it was like, oh, well, we got
• 1:46:12
  to get in the van and go drive around and
• 1:46:15
  play in bars, you know? And I was like, we've
• 1:46:17
  been doing that rodeoing for years, you know, where you
• 1:46:19
  sleep in the back of the truck or whatever. And
• 1:46:21
  it was fun for us.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: We loved it. Yeah.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: So the idea of like starving on the road, playing
• 1:46:26
  in a band, playing music, I was like, let's go.
• 1:46:28
  And getting a guaranteed paycheck every.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: Night, you know.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: The gratitude you must have.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: The riding bulls. I mean, half the time, you know,
• 1:46:39
  you walked away with nothing.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: And you're risking your life.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: A busted lip. Yeah. And no health insurance. And you're
• 1:46:46
  risking your life. And there's not a bunch of people
• 1:46:48
  that love you.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a great base to start out from.
• 1:46:55
  You know? I mean, it sounds like it's almost like
• 1:46:59
  the universe engineered this path for you to go down. Like,
• 1:47:02
  if you wanted to pick a path that would bring
• 1:47:05
  you to where you are right now, it is the
• 1:47:07
  perfect set of circumstances.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: I'll I, I, I look at it all the time,
• 1:47:12
  you know, just from an outside perspective, I guess, and
• 1:47:15
  just like, wow, how in the world did all this
• 1:47:17
  come together? And just a lot of luck and perseverance
• 1:47:22
  or whatever. And I, I wouldn't say I haven't worked
• 1:47:24
  hard at it, you know, I feel like I have
• 1:47:26
  and all that, but there's a lot of luck out
• 1:47:28
  there and a lot of good people too, you know,
• 1:47:30
  a lot of good people helped me out along the
• 1:47:32
  way and gave me gas money and, gave me a
• 1:47:35
  place to sleep or place to eat and helped us
• 1:47:38
  get other gigs. I mean, I remember going from one
• 1:47:41
  town to the next and not having gas money to
• 1:47:44
  get to the next and having no plan other than like,
• 1:47:46
  let's just head west or head east. And, you know,
• 1:47:50
  you'd go play at a bar and sure enough, there'd
• 1:47:52
  be somebody there that were like, oh man, y'all should
• 1:47:54
  come back to my house. We'll have bonfire and play
• 1:47:57
  some songs. And he's like, oh, my brother's got a
• 1:47:58
  bar in Phoenix. And he's like, call them on your
• 1:48:01
  way out. You know, we'd go there and And we'd
• 1:48:04
  always like chop firewood or wash dishes or wouldn't mow
• 1:48:07
  your lawn or wash your car on the way to
• 1:48:09
  like to get gas money and keep on going, you know.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: So that was just kind of how it always felt
• 1:48:15
  like I learned early. If you were willing to help yourself,
• 1:48:18
  you know, people would help you all day long.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: I think luck is a factor, but it's only a
• 1:48:26
  factor if you've already had all those other experiences. Like,
• 1:48:30
  think about it. If you hadn't ridden bulls, you hadn't
• 1:48:32
  gone through all the ranching, all the hard labor, all
• 1:48:35
  the different things, Then, like, you probably wouldn't have capitalized
• 1:48:40
  on that luck the same way.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: Your character wouldn't be the same.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like part of who you are is
• 1:48:49
  the character that you've developed from what you've done.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: It kind of conditioned me to do it in a
• 1:48:54
  big way.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: And it seems like it's your life. It's almost like
• 1:48:57
  it's engineered for this to happen the way it happened,
• 1:49:00
  which is kind of crazy.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: It's been cool, man. I feel it.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: Very storybook.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah. Very, like, movie. Yeah. Like a plot
• 1:49:09
  in a movie. Guy who's a cowboy, bull rider, starts
• 1:49:12
  singing songs. People are like, hey, you should probably do
• 1:49:15
  this for a living. And then someone's like, hey, man,
• 1:49:17
  you should be on TV. You know? And the next
• 1:49:20
  thing you know, you're on one of the biggest hits
• 1:49:22
  in the world.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's that song, you know, one day
• 1:49:25
  they're going to put me in the movie.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: It's a bucko.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, how am I living this thing right now,
• 1:49:30
  you know? It's like, I know I meet people all
• 1:49:32
  the time. They're like, oh, they're like... They can't really
• 1:49:36
  believe where I'm from or whatever. They just think it's
• 1:49:39
  some made-up story. I'm like, all right, man.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems like a story that someone would make
• 1:49:46
  up if they wanted to pretend to be a cowboy. Yeah.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of people have.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: I bet, right?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: I bet. Yeah. And a lot of people still do.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Isn't that funny?
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh-huh.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: That's funny. That's like stolen valor almost. Yeah. You know
• 1:50:00
  what I mean?
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: I think like in all kinds of stuff, you know,
• 1:50:02
  professions or whatever, you know, people pretend to be the.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: What it is. Oh, yeah. Would you mind if I
• 1:50:08
  went to the restroom real quick? Oh, no, no, no, no.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: Not at all. I totally understand.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: I want to keep talking about... I don't want to
• 1:50:13
  stop this.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: Let's pause, take a leak. We'll be right back, folks.
• 1:50:17
  And we're back. Yeah, it's kind of funny that people
• 1:50:21
  would want to fake the life that you've lived, but
• 1:50:24
  that is... such a romantic story. Like, it's such a
• 1:50:29
  movie that it makes sense that people want to fake it.
• 1:50:32
  It's got to be weird walking around, like, having lived
• 1:50:35
  a life that people would want to fake and pretend
• 1:50:38
  that they lived.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: It is sometimes, you know, and it's like, you know,
• 1:50:44
  I remember when I really started for, you know, playing
• 1:50:48
  music and stuff. I mean, I wore a cowboy hat
• 1:50:49
  all the time. I rode bulls and, you know, it
• 1:50:52
  was nice. very much my identity. Cowboy stuff wasn't really
• 1:50:57
  cool then. I feel like in the early 2000s and
• 1:51:01
  all of that, there wasn't a big Americana scene or
• 1:51:06
  any of that kind of stuff. Definitely going to New
• 1:51:10
  York or going to Los Angeles and touring around, I'd
• 1:51:14
  be the only one wearing a cowboy hat. I think
• 1:51:19
  the first time, one time I was in L.A., we
• 1:51:21
  were out on the Santa Monica Pier And there was
• 1:51:24
  a guy that had like the one-man band thing, you know,
• 1:51:27
  out there. And there's all these tourists on the pier.
• 1:51:29
  And I'm just like out there checking out the scenery
• 1:51:31
  and just minding my own business. And this guy gets
• 1:51:34
  on the microphone and he just points over at me
• 1:51:36
  and goes, oh, Brokeback Mountain. And everybody on the pier
• 1:51:42
  turned around and looked at me. They're just pointing at
• 1:51:43
  me and laughing at me.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like, ah.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, so I was like, that was the
• 1:51:47
  association with the cowboy hat at the time, you know.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious. Yeah, they changed cowboys for a while.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: Now it's a whole new ball game.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: You know. Throw a whole new monkey wrench into that legend.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: But, you know, now playing and, man, I'm so stoked
• 1:52:06
  to see all these new bands out there and, like,
• 1:52:09
  so many young folks playing actual instruments, you know. I
• 1:52:11
  felt like for a long time they were so good.
• 1:52:13
  electronic and DJs and all that stuff, you know.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a giant country comeback that's going on right now,
• 1:52:20
  kind of nationwide. I'm sure you love Open the Gates,
• 1:52:23
  the Zach Bryan song. Yeah. That's such a great bull
• 1:52:26
  riding song.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: Man, they got some great tunes, man. Yeah.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: That's a great bull riding song. But there's so many
• 1:52:33
  great musicians out there now and also have lived, like,
• 1:52:37
  different but very... Like, Charlie Crockett. Yeah. What a fascinating
• 1:52:41
  dude that guy is. Like, just... kind of performing on
• 1:52:44
  the streets and, you know, just being kind of a
• 1:52:48
  vagabond traveling around and then finally catches and people are like, damn,
• 1:52:52
  this music is fucking great, man.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like wearing it on their sleeves, you know, and
• 1:52:57
  having the confidence to, I think people have always been,
• 1:53:01
  I think there has been plenty of folks out there,
• 1:53:03
  you know, writing from the heart and so to speak
• 1:53:06
  and all that and, you know, having a certain integrity
• 1:53:09
  to the things that they're saying and wanting, you know,
• 1:53:13
  the truth in their speaking into their songs and things
• 1:53:15
  like that. And now there's just a, there's a lot
• 1:53:17
  more of a platform to support them, you know, and
• 1:53:20
  like people like, Oh wow, there's a, there's a bunch
• 1:53:22
  of this stuff out there, you know.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: There's also an appreciation for it because I think we're
• 1:53:26
  all fearful that people like you won't exist in the future.
• 1:53:32
  Cause it seems like a guy like you, you know,
• 1:53:34
  bull riding, living on a ranch, like singing songs in bars, like,
• 1:53:39
  That almost is like a thing of the past. Oh,
• 1:53:41
  very much. But it's so romantic to people that when
• 1:53:45
  we meet a guy like you in real life, you're like, oh,
• 1:53:48
  keep him around. You want to make sure that people
• 1:53:52
  like you still exist. It's a very exciting thing for
• 1:53:56
  people to have a person who's lived an authentically interesting life.
• 1:54:01
  And authentically interesting. out-of-the-box life. It's not a normal life. Like,
• 1:54:07
  if you meet a million people, the odds of you
• 1:54:10
  meeting one guy who used to bull ride and then
• 1:54:13
  started singing in bars with his friends and was happy
• 1:54:17
  living on the road and now all of a sudden
• 1:54:18
  he's on a fucking gigantic television show. It's not even
• 1:54:23
  one in a million.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: It's pretty, it's strange because sometimes I, you know, I
• 1:54:28
  meet people and I, you know, I'm like, oh yeah,
• 1:54:31
  I grew up just like you, you know, and then
• 1:54:32
  I realize like, I don't think I did. I kind
• 1:54:38
  of had to think about it myself.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: No, you definitely didn't. You rode a bull when you
• 1:54:42
  were fucking 10, dude. Most people when they're 10, they're
• 1:54:44
  playing with GI Joes. They're not riding bulls. That's a
• 1:54:48
  very unusual setup for the rest of your life. I
• 1:54:52
  think if you do some things difficult when you're really young,
• 1:54:56
  you get accustomed to fear. You get accustomed to anxiety
• 1:54:59
  and nerves. The thing that I mean, that is like
• 1:55:05
  the mark of a man. Like a man is his
• 1:55:08
  ability to be in a very high stress situation and
• 1:55:11
  keep his shit together. And to have gone through a
• 1:55:14
  lot of that when you're very young, like riding a
• 1:55:17
  bull at 10 is crazy. To have gone through that
• 1:55:20
  when you're very young, it just develops the kind of
• 1:55:23
  character that allows you to kind of do anything in life.
• 1:55:26
  And I think most men see that and they wish
• 1:55:30
  they were like that.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: I remember a moment. You know, it was really when
• 1:55:35
  I was, you know, riding steers, and then I made
• 1:55:38
  that transition to the big bulls, you know. And it
• 1:55:41
  wasn't like, oh, here's just like this little steer, and
• 1:55:43
  then there's an in-between, and then there's the big. It
• 1:55:45
  was like this little steer and then this big bull.
• 1:55:49
  It was a junior rodeo in Odessa, Texas, and it
• 1:55:52
  was my first year to ride junior bulls. And I
• 1:55:55
  entered the bull ride, and my uncle was there with me,
• 1:55:59
  and they started running the bulls up into the chutes.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: And they were big.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: They were like backs that wide and horns sticking outside
• 1:56:06
  of the chutes, you know? And, uh, they were big,
• 1:56:08
  but they didn't, they didn't buck that hard. You know,
• 1:56:10
  they just kind of jumped, kicked down, but they were
• 1:56:12
  still big, you know? And like, I remember like scared
• 1:56:15
  and like in tears, you know, kind of, I was scared. And, uh,
• 1:56:19
  my uncle, you know, was super cool about it. He
• 1:56:22
  wasn't like, you have to do this or you have to,
• 1:56:24
  he's like, man, whatever you want to do, you know,
• 1:56:25
  you want to pack it up. We'll, we'll get out
• 1:56:27
  of here right now. It's like, this is either for
• 1:56:29
  you or it's not for you, you know? And, uh,
• 1:56:33
  I remember just him telling me, you want to take
• 1:56:35
  like 20, 30 minutes and just kind of think about
• 1:56:38
  it and whatever you want to do, we'll, we'll make happen,
• 1:56:40
  you know? And I did, I kind of walked around
• 1:56:43
  there for a bit and, um, I just had this
• 1:56:47
  some kind of like, I knew I would regret it
• 1:56:49
  if I didn't do it, didn't try it. You know,
• 1:56:52
  there was something in me where like, man, cause I
• 1:56:54
  slept it. I dreamt about it. You know, I just,
• 1:56:56
  I loved it. And, uh, I was like, nah, I'm
• 1:56:58
  going to do this, you know? And I put my
• 1:57:00
  rope on him and, had all the sport there that
• 1:57:02
  I needed in that moment. And they opened the gate
• 1:57:05
  and this big old high horn bullion, he just turned
• 1:57:08
  and kind of jumped out there real docile. And I
• 1:57:11
  think I rode him two or three jumps and fell off.
• 1:57:14
  And it was just like, I'm.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: The king of the world.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm a bull rider now, you know,
• 1:57:21
  I'm not just the steer rider kid, you know, I
• 1:57:23
  kind of made that level. And I remember after that,
• 1:57:26
  I just, uh, man, I just craved it. Like just,
• 1:57:31
  The higher they jump, the faster they spin, the better.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: I like it. Really?
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, just, yeah. Dirty rank. Just run them in there.
• 1:57:39
  Let's go. And when I was little, I mean, even
• 1:57:42
  when I was, like, 14 or 15, you know, the
• 1:57:44
  guys were starting to breed the bulls for, like, the PBR. Like,
• 1:57:47
  they full-on started these, like, breeding programs, you know. Used to,
• 1:57:50
  you could go to a practice pen and, you know,
• 1:57:53
  be an old farmer that had two or three old
• 1:57:55
  bulls that you could get on and practice, and they'd
• 1:57:57
  just jump around and just, you know, Nothing else was
• 1:58:00
  really gonna hurt you bad, you know? And then they
• 1:58:02
  started breeding these young bulls. Man, you'd go to the
• 1:58:05
  practice pen, there'd be 10 or 15 of these like
• 1:58:07
  yearlings that bucked and they needed somebody to get on
• 1:58:11
  them you know like test pilot and I was the
• 1:58:13
  test pilot there was a guy named Bradley uh Raspberry
• 1:58:17
  I believe uh kind of out in Brownwood I remember
• 1:58:19
  going to his house and uh I could ride. I
• 1:58:23
  was pretty sticky. I could ride a lot better when
• 1:58:25
  I was younger than I was when I got older.
• 1:58:28
  For some reason, I just had that no fear or
• 1:58:31
  whatever that was. I'd get on 10 or 15 a day.
• 1:58:35
  They just kept running them in there, man. They'd be
• 1:58:37
  trying to flip over in the chute. They're young, green
• 1:58:41
  bulls that were half wild. They're just trying to figure
• 1:58:45
  out which ones bucked and which ones didn't. They'd get
• 1:58:48
  rid of the ones that didn't buck and keep the
• 1:58:49
  ones that did. Man, I'd just be like, The wilder
• 1:58:53
  they got in the shoot, like, the more aggressive I got. Like,
• 1:58:57
  I just, like, was like, oh, okay, that's what we're
• 1:58:59
  going to do?
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: Come on, let's go.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: Let's do this, you know? I don't know, I was nuts,
• 1:59:05
  you know?
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: God, that's so crazy. That's such a crazy way to
• 1:59:09
  live your life. You know, wild bulls, when you say wild,
• 1:59:12
  like the ones that are out there in the wild,
• 1:59:14
  they're some of the most dangerous animals that you could
• 1:59:16
  ever encounter. Like, they call them scrub bulls. Like, my buddy... Adam,
• 1:59:22
  he lives in Australia, or he's moving to America, but
• 1:59:25
  when he lived in Australia, he said that they would
• 1:59:29
  encounter these scrub bulls, which is like wild domestic bulls
• 1:59:33
  that got out and started breeding, and then many generations later,
• 1:59:37
  they're now completely wild.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: They're like deer out there.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they will run after you.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: I knew these three guys from Australia, or several Australian
• 1:59:46
  guys that came over, lived in Stephenville. A lot of
• 1:59:48
  these cowboys have moved to Stephenville because it was so
• 1:59:50
  central and it was kind of cowboy capital there and
• 1:59:53
  uh his name was lance kelly had some brothers and
• 1:59:56
  they were from up there north queensland somewhere and one
• 2:00:00
  summer he went back to work and then when he
• 2:00:01
  came back he wanted he'd tell me about where he
• 2:00:04
  was from all the time you know i'm i was
• 2:00:06
  young curious i was always fascinated like wow you're from
• 2:00:08
  australia you know i've only seen movies you know like
• 2:00:11
  uh uh what's the oh gosh crocodile dundee no man
• 2:00:17
  from down uh uh man from snowy river now which
• 2:00:20
  was a anyway Um, but I was fascinated with Australia
• 2:00:24
  and him and his brothers. And so he went home
• 2:00:26
  and he, he videotaped, uh, uh, a VHS, you know,
• 2:00:29
  he didn't have phones back then, but it was like
• 2:00:31
  the old cam VHS tape recorder. And he'd videotape, uh,
• 2:00:36
  duct taped it around his body while he was walking
• 2:00:39
  around working on the ranch. And he'd have his four
• 2:00:41
  wheeler and they're chasing these wild cattle and rounding them up,
• 2:00:44
  him and his brother, brothers. And, he would just like
• 2:00:47
  chase them on a four-wheeler as long as you know
• 2:00:50
  to keep them running until they got so tired they
• 2:00:51
  couldn't go anymore and then he had this piece of
• 2:00:53
  pipe on there he could run up behind them and
• 2:00:54
  kind of knock them down and then he'd jump off
• 2:00:57
  and tie their legs together and they would catch a
• 2:00:59
  bunch of them like that and then his brother would
• 2:01:02
  come by you know later with a truck and a
• 2:01:04
  winch and winch them up into the trailer and they
• 2:01:06
  would catch all these wild cows like that and to
• 2:01:09
  be able to see that footage and stuff and Have
• 2:01:11
  him tell me how they were doing it and show me.
• 2:01:13
  And I was like, oh, that's the coolest thing in
• 2:01:15
  the world. When can I go?
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: Australia is such a crazy place, man. I mean, it's
• 2:01:23
  bigger than the United States or the size of the
• 2:01:27
  United States roughly. And it has less people than Los Angeles.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: And everything will.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: Kill you over there.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: Everything will kill you. Every snake, spider.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: Every snake, crocodile.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: They have saltwater crocodiles and giant fucking great white sharks.
• 2:01:42
  And hearty people, man. Yeah. Hearty motherfuckers come from that place.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like Texas and a lot of folks in
• 2:01:49
  Australia are a bit kindred spirits.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think so, too. My buddy James McCann was
• 2:01:54
  on the podcast yesterday. He's a comic out of Australia.
• 2:01:57
  And he's from there and he spends time here. He
• 2:02:00
  was living here for a while, but he had to
• 2:02:02
  move back because he had another kid. But now he's
• 2:02:05
  coming back and forth and trying to figure, he's really talented.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: He's trying to figure out.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: Coming to Austin? Yeah. He was living in Austin for
• 2:02:10
  a couple of years and living in America for a
• 2:02:13
  couple of years, living in Austin for about a year. But,
• 2:02:15
  you know, his wife's about to have another kid and
• 2:02:18
  they just decided to go back to Australia where she's
• 2:02:20
  got support. But man, he fucking misses it. He was here.
• 2:02:24
  He's like, mate, I miss it so much.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: I miss it so much. Like, I don't think there's
• 2:02:29
  any place like this place. It's pretty awesome. But Australia,
• 2:02:34
  it's like, It's the same kind of thing. It's like
• 2:02:36
  it's a rugged place. And the kind of people that
• 2:02:38
  live there, they're fun. They're fun, kind of got a
• 2:02:43
  super fucked up oppressive government, unfortunately.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's a lot about what you say, too.
• 2:02:47
  You know, when you survive certain things in your life and,
• 2:02:51
  you know, it puts things in perspective of what you're
• 2:02:55
  taking seriously. Or what's an emergency? Right, right. Oh, is this.
• 2:03:03
  Life or death or is it not? And to be
• 2:03:06
  able to laugh at stuff. I love comedians. It's just like, man,
• 2:03:11
  to be able to just joke and cut stuff about
• 2:03:14
  the most serious things or whatever it is. It's like, God,
• 2:03:16
  we need that so much.
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: It's an important service. It doesn't seem like it is
• 2:03:20
  to people because it seems stupid. Like, oh, you're just
• 2:03:22
  telling jokes. For me, when I go and watch a
• 2:03:26
  good comedy show, I feel better. It's medicine. And I
• 2:03:30
  think it also puts life into perspective. With a sense
• 2:03:33
  of humor, you can kind of look at things through
• 2:03:35
  a different lens and go, yeah, we're probably going to
• 2:03:38
  be all right.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: I get a feeling like, you know, I think a
• 2:03:41
  lot of folks have this idea that songwriters, especially, you know,
• 2:03:45
  have a bunch of sad songs or whatever to go
• 2:03:47
  to that deep place and you live through stuff that
• 2:03:50
  you write about. But, man, I find in comics, man,
• 2:03:52
  I feel like there's some of the heaviest stuff in
• 2:03:55
  the world that those folks have experienced to be able
• 2:03:59
  to you know, come up and tell these kinds of
• 2:04:02
  jokes and stories and the educational part of it with it.
• 2:04:05
  You know, it's so much, I don't know, for me,
• 2:04:07
  it seems like so much more than just a joke.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: It is with some, I mean, some people just do jokes.
• 2:04:13
  It really depends on your style. But I mean, if
• 2:04:15
  you go back to like Richard Pryor, his whole thing
• 2:04:17
  was like explaining life and telling stories. Yeah. but with
• 2:04:21
  an amazing sense of humor. And then you would leave that,
• 2:04:24
  and everybody feels more united. They feel better. It's what
• 2:04:29
  everybody was thinking. It was everybody's thinking, afraid to say,
• 2:04:34
  and also he would look at things from a very
• 2:04:36
  wise perspective that was also hilarious. So you walked out
• 2:04:40
  of there feeling better. You felt like you were better.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: It felt like it was bringing some hope.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's hope in humor.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: For sure. But there's hope in music, too. Yeah. You know,
• 2:04:52
  I don't have any musical talent at all, but I
• 2:04:54
  always think of music as almost like a drug. Because music,
• 2:04:59
  when a good song hits, you're like, fuck. Like, if
• 2:05:01
  you're in the car... And a good tune comes on,
• 2:05:04
  like especially back when I used to listen to the radio,
• 2:05:06
  you know, and like you didn't expect what was coming on.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: You can't rewind it.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All of a sudden it's Radar Love by Golden Earring. Oh, yeah.
• 2:05:13
  Fuck yeah. Let's go. Like you feel different. It like
• 2:05:18
  changes your mood. You hear like Freebird. Like, you're flipping
• 2:05:23
  through the channels and the fucking guitar solo for Freebird
• 2:05:26
  comes on. You're like, yes! You feel better. Like, it
• 2:05:30
  excites all these parts of your senses, your consciousness, your feelings.
• 2:05:36
  It's a drug. I mean, it's an amazing thing.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: It's always been real therapeutic for me at the very beginning.
• 2:05:41
  Like I said, I didn't have high expectations, but I
• 2:05:45
  knew when I kind of wrote some of the first
• 2:05:47
  songs that I wrote and I, like, got some of
• 2:05:49
  that stuff off my chest, like, it changed me, you know?
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: It like, it became a tool that all of a
• 2:05:57
  sudden I had access to this thing that like was
• 2:06:01
  helping me heal in a way. Like I could get,
• 2:06:02
  I could get stuff off my chest. Like the things that, uh,
• 2:06:06
  I was uncomfortable talking about in conversation with folks. Like
• 2:06:09
  I could put them into a song and like sing
• 2:06:11
  them to the wall. And I was just like getting
• 2:06:14
  that stuff out. Like there wasn't anybody in the room.
• 2:06:16
  I was just like, you know, but I was getting
• 2:06:19
  this stuff out, out of me, you know?
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: And it's also a way for people to hear it
• 2:06:23
  where it's not annoying. You know what I mean? Like
• 2:06:25
  if you just tell some sad story about your life,
• 2:06:27
  people are like, oh, geez. You're like, here we go.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: Cry me a river, kid. Everybody's got a story.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: But if you have a sad story in a song,
• 2:06:37
  it's like fucking, it's beautiful. Like I love a good
• 2:06:41
  sad song. You know, a song that has like real
• 2:06:45
  emotion in it, whether it's a real story or whether,
• 2:06:48
  like one of my favorite, Colter Wall songs is Kate McKinnon. Yeah.
• 2:06:53
  Jamie turned me on to that song. He said it
• 2:06:55
  to me.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: Colter's a gem.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: He was fucking 21 when he made that song, which
• 2:07:00
  is crazy. Yeah. You listen to that song, it sounds
• 2:07:03
  like a 58-year-old man who's been smoking cigarettes his whole life. Yeah.
• 2:07:08
  And that dude is interesting, too, because he still works
• 2:07:11
  on a ranch. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: He's a great guy. He's one of my favorites of
• 2:07:15
  the younger guys that have come up and been doing this.
• 2:07:17
  He's just... Same way when I first heard those first songs,
• 2:07:21
  I was like, who the fuck is this?
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: Then I saw like a picture of him. I'm like,
• 2:07:27
  oh man, he's a kid, you know?
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: Just a fabulous songwriter.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: Raven is a wicked bird. You hear that, you're like,
• 2:07:36
  what is this? Yeah. Who is this guy? I couldn't
• 2:07:42
  believe he was 21. I'm like, that makes zero sense.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He's got it though, man. And there's a Bunch
• 2:07:49
  of them out there now that I'm hearing too, they're
• 2:07:51
  just like, I'm like, man, how cool. How cool. I'm
• 2:07:54
  so glad that they're getting a shot at it or
• 2:07:57
  just getting the support. I don't know if it's saying
• 2:07:59
  getting a shot at it, but it's like getting the
• 2:08:01
  love and support that they deserve for the, it's good music, man.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. It's great music. And there's a thing
• 2:08:07
  now with the internet where it's so easy to share something,
• 2:08:10
  you know, like someone's got a good song and it's
• 2:08:12
  on YouTube or Spotify and then you just send a
• 2:08:15
  link to your buddy. Yeah. You go, bro, check this out. Like,
• 2:08:18
  I've got to say like half the songs I find
• 2:08:20
  out about, my friends just send me. And then all
• 2:08:23
  of a sudden I'm like, oh, shit, yeah. And then
• 2:08:25
  I'll add it to my playlist. It's easy to share
• 2:08:29
  things now where you don't have to go to the
• 2:08:31
  record store and pick up the record. Now it's just
• 2:08:35
  like within seconds of you getting it in your phone,
• 2:08:39
  you're listening to it.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: And it's easier to record the stuff too. It's like
• 2:08:42
  you don't need to. Half a million bucks in a
• 2:08:45
  studio and all that stuff. It's like, man, half the
• 2:08:47
  stuff you can record on your phone.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: Well, look at Oliver Anthony.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: One fucking song.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: One song and the first show he ever does is
• 2:08:56
  like 18,000 people. That is the first show that dude
• 2:09:01
  ever performed at.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: I feel for him. I would never have been able
• 2:09:05
  to do that when I started. I was not prepared
• 2:09:08
  for anything. I don't know. Maybe they're not, but that's
• 2:09:12
  a lot to carry.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: He settled in pretty easy. He figured it out. He's
• 2:09:17
  a smart cat.
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: He's a really smart dude and he settled in really easy.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: I guess they have to, you know, I mean, I
• 2:09:23
  always think like, you know, gosh, it's changed so much
• 2:09:26
  since I started out, you know, I mean, we didn't
• 2:09:29
  even have like, you know, if you wanted to learn
• 2:09:31
  how to play a song, you kind of had to
• 2:09:32
  go listen to the record and just try to figure
• 2:09:34
  it out, you know, and rewind it. And now there's like, Oh,
• 2:09:37
  here's a guy that'll just show you every note and
• 2:09:39
  this and that.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: There's a guy on YouTube that'll show you exactly how
• 2:09:42
  to do it.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: And that took me years to figure out, you know, and, um, And,
• 2:09:46
  you know, maybe that is like today, you know, these guys,
• 2:09:50
  they're learning how to do it at such a quicker rate.
• 2:09:53
  And they know how to handle the crowds and do
• 2:09:55
  all the stuff. And it's just like, boom, there you go.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: Well, that's with everything today. You know, I think that's
• 2:10:01
  also why, like, I mean, in martial arts and like UFC,
• 2:10:05
  there's a reason why the guys are so much better today.
• 2:10:08
  And it's because they get to see everything that everybody's
• 2:10:10
  ever done. And then they practice it and improve upon it.
• 2:10:12
  And they get it at an early age. You can
• 2:10:15
  essentially just on your phone watch every fight that's ever
• 2:10:18
  taken place ever in human history that's been recorded.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: I did that on the road a few years ago.
• 2:10:23
  I mean, I've always been a pretty rudimentary guitar player.
• 2:10:27
  You know, I can't solo all over the place and
• 2:10:30
  all of that stuff. I think it was like 2019.
• 2:10:34
  I put it out on a record and I was
• 2:10:35
  going on a tour. And my friend Charlie Sexton produced
• 2:10:38
  the album. He's a wonderful guitar player.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: Charlie Sexton, the guy from the 80s, Beat So Lonely?
• 2:10:44
  From Austin, yeah. That guy?
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: Played with Dylan, played Archangel.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: He was like really young when Beat So Lonely came out, right? Oh, man.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, legend. And I remember calling him, though. I was like, man,
• 2:10:55
  I really want to get better at the guitar, you know?
• 2:10:58
  And he's like, well, just listen to all the stuff
• 2:11:00
  that you really like. He's like, don't try to play
• 2:11:02
  it all note for note. He's like, just keep listening
• 2:11:04
  to it, and you'll start eventually finding those places and
• 2:11:08
  develop your style. But it was, when I got on
• 2:11:11
  the road as well, man, I had access on YouTube
• 2:11:15
  to all of my favorite musicians and guitar players, and
• 2:11:18
  I just kind of made a point of sitting down.
• 2:11:19
  And I even found this guy that was just breaking
• 2:11:21
  down and giving simple blues guitar lessons for kids. I
• 2:11:25
  was like, man, this is great. Never done anything like this.
• 2:11:27
  And just, like, went through. I went back, you know.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: I got to memorize all the notes on the fretboard.
• 2:11:32
  And I needed, you know, and it was just, it
• 2:11:34
  was so, I had so much fun doing it. And,
• 2:11:37
  you know, and also give confidence to get up and
• 2:11:39
  jam with other musicians and play and kind of know
• 2:11:42
  what key you're in, what you're doing. And, you know,
• 2:11:46
  I went years, you know, without having any kind of
• 2:11:48
  lessons or training. And then I just, like, went then.
• 2:11:51
  three weeks of being on tour and watching YouTube videos
• 2:11:54
  of it just stepped it up so much. They're like,
• 2:11:58
  how'd you learn how to do it? About 20 years
• 2:12:00
  later in my career, I decided to learn how to
• 2:12:01
  play the guitar on YouTube. It is amazing.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the positive part of the Internet. If
• 2:12:08
  you can avoid the negative parts, there's a lot of
• 2:12:09
  great positive stuff on the Internet, and the access to
• 2:12:12
  stuff like that is amazing.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: If we all could just avoid the negative of everything, right? Right.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't have
• 2:12:21
  good lives and they do have a lot of extra
• 2:12:23
  time because they're not really investing in their own life.
• 2:12:25
  So they just spread a negativity online. Yeah. And it's
• 2:12:29
  just human nature. Wild, wild world.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: It's a wild world, but it's also a wildly positive world, too.
• 2:12:36
  Just what you just said about the guitar stuff or
• 2:12:38
  with the Oliver Anthony stuff. Yeah. This guy standing there
• 2:12:42
  with a guitar in front of a field with no
• 2:12:46
  production value at all. but has a song that he's
• 2:12:48
  singing from the heart. Like how many, how many views
• 2:12:51
  does that shit have on YouTube? It's gotta be like
• 2:12:56
  a hundred million views or something nuts. I mean, that
• 2:12:59
  song was fucking gigantic. Yeah. Richmond North.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: I remember my wife playing it for me for the
• 2:13:05
  first time. And I was just like, what the, I
• 2:13:07
  was like, what is that? And she's like, Oh man,
• 2:13:08
  check this out. You know, I was like, That's so
• 2:13:11
  fucking rad.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a chance to see him perform live, too,
• 2:13:15
  with his band. They're fucking fantastic. He's completely settled into
• 2:13:18
  being famous now. He's cool with it. He's still the
• 2:13:22
  same dude. I met him real early on, and I
• 2:13:25
  actually talked to him on the phone. How many was
• 2:13:27
  the guy? 236 million. Holy shit. Wow.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: When you say he settled it, I didn't know. Was
• 2:13:37
  he having a hard time with it?
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: He was freaking out in the beginning. And I contacted
• 2:13:41
  him early on, and he said, hey, can I ask
• 2:13:44
  you some advice? And we talked on the phone. I said, yeah, sure.
• 2:13:48
  So I called him up, and he was just telling
• 2:13:49
  me that he was getting hit up by all these
• 2:13:51
  different people that were trying to give him money to
• 2:13:52
  sign a contract. And then I go, hey, hey, hey,
• 2:13:55
  don't sign nothing. I go, you don't need nobody. You
• 2:13:59
  don't need to be locked up in any contracts with nobody.
• 2:14:02
  And he was like, they're all telling me I got
• 2:14:03
  to strike while the iron's hot. I'm like, fuck them.
• 2:14:06
  I go, you got talent, dude. Talent is the number
• 2:14:09
  one thing. You already have that. You're going to be fine.
• 2:14:13
  You just keep making songs like that. You can't fucking lose.
• 2:14:16
  But what you don't want to do. Is be tied
• 2:14:19
  with some legal contract to some assholes just sucking you
• 2:14:22
  like a vampire. Yeah. And they're going to be stuck
• 2:14:24
  with you for years. And then you're going to have
• 2:14:26
  to go to court to get out of that shit. Exactly. Yeah.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: You have the opportunity, like you said, you just, man,
• 2:14:32
  you're writing good songs, you're doing good stuff and you
• 2:14:34
  have a way to give it to the people.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: But he's getting an offer for like $ 7 million to
• 2:14:39
  sign this. I'm like, don't do it. I know it
• 2:14:41
  sounds like, but that $ 7 million, they're giving you that
• 2:14:44
  because they're going to make 14. There's not a chance
• 2:14:47
  in hell. And you don't need them. You don't need them.
• 2:14:49
  You should get all the money. You should get it all.
• 2:14:51
  You shouldn't give any money to anybody else. You don't
• 2:14:54
  need it. You can make your own records. You can
• 2:14:56
  put it all together yourself. You don't need nobody.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: I guess you always got to remember they're going to
• 2:15:01
  buy for one, sell for two. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: There's no way they're going to give you that money
• 2:15:06
  unless they're going to make a lot more. And then
• 2:15:08
  you're going to get stuck with them. Don't do it.
• 2:15:10
  And he's like, they're all telling me I got to
• 2:15:11
  do it now. Because if I miss this opportunity, I'm like,
• 2:15:14
  you ain't missing shit.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: You ain't missing it. There's not a chance you're going
• 2:15:18
  to miss it.
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: Especially when you're that young.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And good.
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: And just fucking good.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: Who knows what they're going to be writing in the
• 2:15:25
  next 10 years.
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you heard that song, Woman Scorned?
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: I haven't, no. Is that one of his new ones? Woo!
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: He wrote that one after a breakup, and it's just woo! Woo!
• 2:15:36
  You hear that, fucker? It just gets you right in
• 2:15:38
  the bone marrow.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fantastic. It's so good. But it's just like,
• 2:15:45
  you know, it's a beautiful story. And I love a
• 2:15:48
  story like that. He was selling heavy equipment. He was
• 2:15:53
  a salesman, just like fucking machinery and shit. And then
• 2:15:58
  writing songs, and he gets fed up one day, and
• 2:16:00
  he puts this song, let's make a video of this
• 2:16:02
  fucking song. And then all of a sudden, boom.
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: Man, people ask me all the time. They're like, man,
• 2:16:07
  who do you think is the best young songwriter out there,
• 2:16:10
  musician or guitar player? I'm like, man, I don't know.
• 2:16:14
  It's probably some 16-year-old kid in the garage that nobody's
• 2:16:17
  heard of. That's probably the best guy out there.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: And he's ready to jump off.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He's going to hit you with some song that
• 2:16:23
  just crushes you.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're out there. But that's the thing that I
• 2:16:29
  was saying about guys like you, that people look at
• 2:16:31
  guys like you and it's such a romantic story. They
• 2:16:34
  worry that there's not going to be any more of you.
• 2:16:38
  You know what I mean? Like this weird digital world
• 2:16:41
  and AI and just the strange fucking life that we're
• 2:16:47
  all living right now that are not, I don't want
• 2:16:50
  to say simple cause it's not simple, but it's unencumbered
• 2:16:54
  by all the bullshit of the, the world that we
• 2:16:57
  think is fake and unfortunate. Yeah. Like to, to have
• 2:17:00
  this pure life and this wild romantic story, When people
• 2:17:05
  meet a guy like you, they're like, oh, man, there
• 2:17:07
  probably ain't going to be many more of them. I
• 2:17:09
  don't know, man.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at this guy, you know. Yeah. I
• 2:17:13
  feel so fortunate, too. Like, when I did come to Austin, like,
• 2:17:17
  in my, you know, mid-20s, you know, I met guys
• 2:17:20
  like Joe Ely and Terry Allen and Guy Clark and, like,
• 2:17:26
  these little Steve Earle, legendary kind of guys that I
• 2:17:28
  looked up to. And I remember being young then and
• 2:17:30
  being like, oh, man, you know, these are the last
• 2:17:34
  guys left, you know. And so, you know, I don't know.
• 2:17:38
  There's so many of these young folks out there that
• 2:17:41
  are doing it that I think.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: Crave it.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: And that's what they're interested in. They want to play
• 2:17:47
  that music. You know, they want to feel that stuff.
• 2:17:50
  so i'm optimistic about it but i can i can
• 2:17:54
  it definitely is a different world out there these days
• 2:17:56
  and i you know even for myself you know just
• 2:18:00
  going with the flow and like well where are we
• 2:18:02
  going tomorrow you know how's this like i have no
• 2:18:04
  idea how so much of this social media stuff is
• 2:18:06
  working or what you know and how you put out
• 2:18:09
  an album or songs. And it was like, don't worry
• 2:18:12
  about all that jazz. It's like, just keep writing.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: Just keep writing, keep making it and just be undeniable.
• 2:18:19
  And at the end of the day, if all of
• 2:18:21
  that stuff disappears, you're like, you know, you can always
• 2:18:24
  go sit on the sidewalk and put your tip jar
• 2:18:28
  out there and play a song for people who are
• 2:18:29
  walking down the street. And I guarantee you, there's going
• 2:18:31
  to be somebody that's going to stop and appreciate it. Yeah.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what got Charlie Crockett started.
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've had plenty of gigs where like, you know,
• 2:18:38
  you go into some bar and, you know, my wife
• 2:18:41
  always says, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.
• 2:18:44
  You go into some bar and they kind of, you
• 2:18:47
  can tell they don't really want, you know, they're not
• 2:18:49
  excited about you playing or whatever. Like, yeah, shit, I'll
• 2:18:51
  just go. I'll go park in the parking lot across
• 2:18:54
  the street and sit on the tailgate of my truck
• 2:18:55
  and play. We'll have a party over there, you know? Yeah.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: That is the crazy thing about music.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: You can just kind of set up anywhere.
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: You don't need all that stuff. You know what I'm
• 2:19:04
  talking about? Just signing contracts and deals and all that.
• 2:19:07
  It's like, man, just like, you got that guitar in
• 2:19:08
  your hand, you got your song, you know? Hold on
• 2:19:12
  to it. Yeah. And protect it, you know? That's what's,
• 2:19:15
  it's something that's special to you. I think when I
• 2:19:18
  talk about the therapy of songwriting, that's what's I hold
• 2:19:22
  on and protect that ruthlessly. I'm not just giving that away.
• 2:19:27
  That part of it's way more important than selling an
• 2:19:33
  album or a concert ticket or going on the road
• 2:19:37
  touring and all that. What I get out of music
• 2:19:39
  is when I'm sitting at home in a room all
• 2:19:41
  by myself and letting that stuff pour out of me
• 2:19:45
  and I'm just singing it to the wall. That's what's
• 2:19:49
  saved my life.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: It ain't any of the rest of it.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that you articulate it that way, too, because
• 2:19:55
  I think there's young, aspiring songwriters and singers out there
• 2:20:00
  that are listening to this right now that are feeling this,
• 2:20:02
  and they just can't wait to get to a pad
• 2:20:04
  right now and start writing, pick up their guitar and
• 2:20:06
  start writing. Because it's like stories like yours and the
• 2:20:09
  way you express it, it inspires people to get excited
• 2:20:14
  about it, inspires people to really dig in.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: I hope so. You know, I definitely had folks that
• 2:20:21
  mentored me like that and, you know, steered me in
• 2:20:24
  the right direction in a lot of ways. Terry Allen,
• 2:20:27
  the guy, definitely. I'm just like, man, just keep writing. Keep,
• 2:20:31
  you know, whatever it, whatever it's making you want to
• 2:20:34
  do that in the first place, you know, like that,
• 2:20:36
  like hold on to that, you know, and protect it.
• 2:20:39
  And the rest will always be around and always come
• 2:20:42
  and it'll change and a good song will survive and
• 2:20:46
  find its way. That song you just played me, like
• 2:20:50
  you said, 200 million people in it. They'll find its way.
• 2:20:55
  They'll find its way into people's hearts.
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And like I said, it's important for people like
• 2:21:02
  you to tell your story. It really is.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: It's fuel for people. Thanks. Thank you for being here.
• 2:21:09
  I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.
• 2:21:11
  I really enjoyed it. And tell everybody they want to
• 2:21:15
  find you performing anywhere, where they can catch you. You
• 2:21:18
  got a website that shows where you're going to be at?
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 1: All over the interwebs. Yeah, it's all out there.
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: Do you have your own personal website? I do.
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: It's probably just ryanbingham.com or binghammusic.com, something like that.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: All the dates are up there. Do you use social
• 2:21:34
  media at all?
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're on all this stuff.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: Do you pay attention to it, or do you have
• 2:21:38
  somebody who does it for you? Both.
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: We both, yeah. Mostly on Instagram, I pay attention to
• 2:21:43
  that one and check in and stuff like that. There's
• 2:21:46
  so much of it these days, I can't keep up.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: With all of it. It'll rob your time.
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm trying to go get away where all that
• 2:21:55
  stuff's turned off. That's where I'm going to find me.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: Beautiful. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Bye, everybody.