Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Androids of Tara (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Androids of Tara (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blump. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:38
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blump.
• 0:40
  Pen knife, The Doctor Who Commentary podcast.
• 0:43
  Hello, James. Hello.
• 0:46
  We're having a delightful evening today talking about the
• 0:48
  address of Tara. How could it not be an absolute
• 0:52
  delight? Now, we sort of touched upon
• 0:54
  this in Episode 1, but we didn't really talk about it in any
• 0:57
  great depth. What do you think about the Keys
• 0:59
  to Time itself as an idea? I don't know how to respond to
• 1:08
  that really. I think it it just does what it
• 1:11
  needs to do, which is it's a quest.
• 1:13
  The more I mean the key, the keys to time is just the
• 1:17
  Macguffin that with the keys to time you get the the white
• 1:22
  guardian, the black guardian. That's the that's the real kind
• 1:25
  of challenge for, for anyone who thinks Doctor Who is serious
• 1:29
  sci-fi, because of course that is pure fantasy.
• 1:33
  Do we want the Doctor universe to have kind of these, these
• 1:36
  guardian characters? I think we do.
• 1:39
  And I, if we can, if we can buy that there are these higher
• 1:43
  level characters who are who are on a on a different plane and
• 1:46
  have, you know, even, you know, a, a strata above Time Lords.
• 1:50
  Even then, of course, it makes sense that we can have a, a, a
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  key that's going to briefly stop time and start it.
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  I mean, why? Why wouldn't they?
• 1:58
  And because they're on a higher strata, why wouldn't they
• 2:00
  scatter it in six pieces across the universe?
• 2:02
  It doesn't take, it doesn't bother me in the slightest and I
• 2:05
  don't think it ever used to bother Doctor Who fans either.
• 2:08
  Well, I remember Graham Williams saying in an interview that he
• 2:11
  wanted to give the Doctor a purpose that he didn't think
• 2:14
  they're sort of freewheeling around the universe.
• 2:16
  Could, you know, could go on for much longer.
• 2:19
  And so he's got a mission in this.
• 2:21
  And I've heard Rob Sheeran give the wonderful reading that God
• 2:25
  has given Doctor Who a mission for season 16, which is a, which
• 2:29
  is a really fun idea. But I just think on pure terms
• 2:34
  of giving the kids something to look out for in each story.
• 2:39
  Oh my God, what's going to be the kids time segment this week?
• 2:42
  And then making the answers so imaginative.
• 2:45
  A planet, a person, OK, a necklace, a statue, the Jethric.
• 2:51
  I don't know, it's quite stimulating, I think, for kids,
• 2:54
  you know. Oh.
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  Yeah, and, and Doctor Who is for kids, whether you think it's
• 3:00
  equally for adults or or not, you know, that's where people
• 3:03
  disagree. But it is definitely always for
• 3:05
  kids. So I'd love it.
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  I, I, I think this is the kind of structure that more Doctor
• 3:15
  Who series could have aspired to.
• 3:18
  Is it any less sophisticated really than some of the the
• 3:22
  umbrellas we've had over over New Who series?
• 3:25
  No. And I think actually with the
• 3:27
  Susan Twist thing in this season for like what?
• 3:30
  What is Susan Twist going to turn out to be this week?
• 3:33
  One week she's the lady in the canteen, one week she's the
• 3:36
  hospital robot, one week she's the hiker.
• 3:39
  You know, all leading up to something.
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  And do you think the the answers we get in the Armageddon factor
• 3:46
  are quite satisfying? The Armageddon Factor is is one
• 3:56
  of the weakest stories in the season and it it it doesn't
• 4:00
  quite deliver. I think the conclusion that you
• 4:04
  might want it to, but I think the fact that the the segment is
• 4:06
  a person makes up for that. I like the fact that they, you
• 4:11
  know, rig up that fake key to time.
• 4:14
  Oh, that's good. That's right.
• 4:16
  The. Fella in the time loop just as
• 4:17
  he's about to press the button and nuke everything.
• 4:20
  Also that scene that Douglas Adams out of hand in where Tom
• 4:24
  Baker pretends he's turned evil briefly.
• 4:27
  I mean, there's, it's, it's just a single scene tying up the
• 4:31
  whole season, which you could see as a bit of an anticlimax,
• 4:33
  but actually they, you know, and then Valentine Dial turns up.
• 4:37
  It's I, I had to say, I think the scene itself doesn't
• 4:40
  disappoint in the moment because it's so well played.
• 4:44
  But as we, as we said with this story, it's, you know, the, the,
• 4:48
  the, the key to time is a gimmick fundamentally, and it
• 4:52
  doesn't have to be the, you know, the, the central thing.
• 4:57
  I don't, you know, I, I don't think that the Armageddon factor
• 5:00
  that is a failure by any stretch.
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  And it ties up the season. There's a dance like better
• 5:06
  than, you know, the invasion of time as a, as a season finale.
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  So you know. I think, I think it can be used
• 5:12
  in really creative ways as well. Why in Power of Crow is the
• 5:15
  reason why crow is as big as he is, isn't it?
• 5:18
  Yeah, you want your big monster? Fine, we'll use the umbrella
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  theme. Well, OK, let's head into a
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  story that has absolutely nothing to do with The Key to
• 5:27
  Time whatsoever, but is a pure delight to watch The Androids of
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  Tara episode 3 if you would like to count us in.
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  Yeah, we're going to start it in 321 go.
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  So we left off in the throne room Romana or possibly an
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  Android version of Romana or possibly Princess Trella walked
• 5:52
  in during the she. Was wearing a costume closer to
• 5:55
  Princess Trella, wasn't she? I think as a viewer you might
• 5:58
  have thought, is that have they got the Princess out of the
• 5:59
  cellar? What have they done here?
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  And in an act of shocking violence, the Doctor leaps out
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  from the throne and smashes her over the head.
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  And it is shocking because Tom Baker, when he suddenly lashes
• 6:09
  out, is scary and violent. It's a good cliffhanger, isn't
• 6:15
  it? I think it's great.
• 6:16
  Well, I think it's great that you cut to the reaction shots,
• 6:18
  because then it's all left to your imagination.
• 6:21
  So it's two out of two for the cliffhanger so far.
• 6:23
  Yeah, 03 is the best of all though I reenacted 3 when I was
• 6:27
  at. Because he's got Romana.
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  Look, Doctor. Doctor.
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  Oh, it's wonderful. In fact.
• 6:38
  He really thumps her, doesn't he?
• 6:39
  And look and you see the reactions.
• 6:42
  Something happened when Mary Tam came into Doctor Who.
• 6:45
  I think Tom Baker realised, because he'd been quite mean,
• 6:49
  hadn't he, to Louise Jameson. I think he realised he sort of
• 6:53
  met his match with Mary Tam, so he.
• 6:55
  Plays with her. Rather than against her.
• 6:58
  I think Louise Jameson probably tried really hard as well.
• 7:03
  And I suspect there's a kind of a slightly nasty streak in Tom
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  Baker then, you know, actually needing people to stand up to
• 7:13
  him because that's because that's the breakthrough moment,
• 7:16
  isn't it, in Bang Rock where Louise Jameson actually stood up
• 7:19
  to him that that created a, a, you know, a considerable Thor in
• 7:23
  the relations. And if you look at kind of
• 7:26
  behind the scenes footage from the last couple of stories in,
• 7:28
  in season 15, they're, they're going on really well.
• 7:31
  So there's a, there's a, you know, a sadness there that
• 7:34
  actually they could have been much, much closer.
• 7:37
  When she tells that story, though, about her standing up to
• 7:40
  him in Horror of Fame Rock, she says what he said.
• 7:43
  And he just sat there and he went, You're all right, love.
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  And that's all he got. That's all he gave her.
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  And I thought even that is quite patronizing.
• 7:51
  Quite cold, isn't it? But Mary Tama I just she.
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  She knows her mind. And she knows she's only going
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  to be doing a year. Of this.
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  And she don't need this for her career.
• 8:02
  Do you think she knows that from the from from the start?
• 8:05
  I think she, well, she says in an interview she realised very
• 8:08
  quickly that this was a certain type of role and she was
• 8:12
  promised a Co lead and you know, to be as important.
• 8:16
  Then suddenly she's hanging off cliffs and things like this and
• 8:20
  she wanted out fairly quickly, I think.
• 8:23
  She's so good. I mean, she, she has the kind of
• 8:26
  Diana rigged quality. If they'd given her a bit more
• 8:29
  kind of if they'd given her more of the fight scenes, probably
• 8:32
  with a different doctor, she could have done that.
• 8:34
  You know, with, with a, with a doctor, she could have been the
• 8:38
  action, she could have done the action stuff.
• 8:39
  She, you know, and a Doctor Who would have maybe been more
• 8:42
  deferential to what she could bring to the party.
• 8:44
  But you know with Tom Baker, you're always going to be second
• 8:46
  fiddle, aren't you? Well, I just think as well, like
• 8:50
  another. I hate to go on about people's
• 8:52
  looks, but she just brings so much class to the screen.
• 8:55
  Oh yeah. It feels like.
• 8:58
  You know the production. Is a cut.
• 8:59
  Above just because she's there. Yeah, class is the word.
• 9:05
  You know, in the Rebus operation, when she's going
• 9:07
  around in that plucked chicken dress, looking every inch, you
• 9:12
  know, the snow Princess. Yeah, she gets a, she gets a run
• 9:17
  of good costumes, doesn't she? I kind of think she could
• 9:21
  probably wear anything. She's wearing that farmer's cap
• 9:23
  in Stones of Blood and still looks classy.
• 9:27
  You think she could do the the Lala Ward school uniform?
• 9:31
  Yeah, of course she could. Although Lala Ward does say,
• 9:36
  doesn't she, that when she came in that they were trying to give
• 9:39
  her Mary. Mary.
• 9:40
  Tans well, you can see that in the creature from the pit, can't
• 9:44
  you? That's.
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  She's like, no, no, no, I'm not sexy like Mark Mary Tam, you
• 9:48
  know, let's do something a bit more quirky.
• 9:50
  They find their way, though, also suddenly Count.
• 9:55
  Grendel's improvising now. Isn't he one another and?
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  Love it. Yeah.
• 10:00
  Well, and it's another plan. So the plot that the summer
• 10:02
  house scene is, is another of the kind of set piece scenes
• 10:05
  from Prisoner of Zender. So they're, they're doing the
• 10:08
  main beats, but in a, you know, again in a different way with
• 10:11
  the with the Android twist. Doctors there trying to keep his
• 10:16
  his puppet king going. So why I yeah, why why anyone
• 10:24
  watching this would think by this stage that it was small
• 10:26
  stakes when when it's actually building up one thing on top of
• 10:29
  another. You know, the the both parties
• 10:32
  are, are in a kind of a desperate measures situation.
• 10:38
  Romana's a prisoner. The you know, the situation, the
• 10:41
  Android is breaking down the situation with the king.
• 10:43
  And you know, Count Grendel has gone rogue.
• 10:47
  It's it builds the stakes every every episode.
• 10:50
  I think I know what it is, though.
• 10:51
  I think it's because Count Grendel is essentially a comedy
• 10:56
  villain, right? A pantomime villain.
• 10:58
  Do you think he's a comedy villain?
• 11:00
  I think he's very funny. Not quite the same thing,
• 11:04
  though. I would say that, you know,
• 11:07
  compare Grendel to Anthony Ailey's Master.
• 11:11
  I tell you which one's the panto villain?
• 11:14
  It's the one wiping out half the universe.
• 11:17
  Cal Grendel. I think Peter Jeffrey absolutely
• 11:20
  believes in Cal Grendel as a character, and I I think there's
• 11:23
  just the subtlest hint of something really masochistic
• 11:27
  about him. But I also think as well, it's
• 11:30
  like you take out the monsters, you know, and then suddenly
• 11:34
  people just think this is, this isn't quite, this isn't
• 11:39
  impressive. I know, yeah, I know.
• 11:41
  I I But I think they're just wrong.
• 11:44
  Those people are all wrong. I'm glad we cleared that out.
• 11:49
  But it's, but there is some, do you know what I mean?
• 11:51
  There's something about kind of the way he is in the dungeons.
• 11:55
  There's, there's, there's some, it's very subtle.
• 11:57
  It's very underpaid because of course it is, because this the
• 11:59
  children's programme. But he's sort of doing what Alan
• 12:01
  Rickman does in, in Prince of Thieves, just this slightly
• 12:05
  creepy undertone of something a bit sexual there as well.
• 12:09
  The way he looks at Madame Lamia, the way he looks at
• 12:11
  Romana, the way he cups women's faces.
• 12:14
  He's he's a threatening figure. And I'm perfectly convinced.
• 12:19
  You know, he always thinks he's the most important person in the
• 12:22
  room all the time. Oh, look, here's Till, Master.
• 12:26
  My name is Till. I don't tell.
• 12:30
  Look at it. There was a wonderful bit a
• 12:33
  minute ago where he says the Prince and then the Android
• 12:36
  goes. King, OH.
• 12:37
  Sorry, Your Majesty, goes. Doctor steps in, he goes.
• 12:40
  It's not a Deck, really. Oh, I forgot he was an Android.
• 12:45
  There's a lot of quick wit like that in this.
• 12:47
  Yeah, the way that the this, this is very clever use of this
• 12:51
  set as well. Like like I was saying in in
• 12:54
  episode 1, the way he brings depth to these interiors by
• 12:58
  bringing people into the foreground.
• 13:00
  But you can see Zadak there kind of listening, and then this
• 13:04
  conversation is just separated by curtain.
• 13:08
  I swear they reused a lot of this for creature from the pit.
• 13:11
  You know, for Lady Odastras. And the way the, yeah, the way
• 13:19
  the Android Prince is interacting with them as well.
• 13:21
  The the Android King rather. I like how they keep Tron in
• 13:27
  Vague or the Doctor as well. At the end of the episode, it's
• 13:31
  the best when he goes off with Karl Grendel.
• 13:34
  The cows just offered me the throne.
• 13:36
  You speak treason. Oh, is this when we're going to?
• 13:45
  The Summer House. We're going to the summer house
• 13:47
  now. Yeah, it's an obvious trap.
• 13:48
  They know it's a trap because of course it's a trap, because
• 13:50
  that's the convention. Come out.
• 13:52
  James, you have my word. As a as a grog, you will not be
• 13:57
  harmed. You know what I mean?
• 13:59
  It's very shrewd taking the structure of something like this
• 14:03
  and putting it into the four episode structure as well.
• 14:05
  It just it works for the 2525 minute episode structure
• 14:10
  perfectly because every episode has got a thing going on in it.
• 14:14
  There's like a set piece, isn't? There it just gives it an
• 14:17
  automatic kind of shape. What else can he do is his only
• 14:22
  chance of. Rescuing you.
• 14:24
  But I also think that David Fisher makes it look easy, but I
• 14:29
  but it's much harder than than that to, you know, to take a a
• 14:32
  classic structure and to make it work this effortlessly.
• 14:35
  It's very interesting and Fisher went through 3 script editors,
• 14:38
  didn't he had Anthony Reid this season, Douglas Adams next
• 14:41
  season and then Christopher H Bidmeade come the leisure hive
• 14:46
  and totally I think they are all quite different.
• 14:51
  I think Anthony Reid brings a consistency to these scripts.
• 14:55
  That is it's, it's really, I mean, Anthony Reed was very
• 14:59
  experienced. He'd been a producer.
• 15:01
  He knew what was needed. I think he probably is one of
• 15:04
  the reasons why these episodes look so good, because he's got a
• 15:08
  producer's eye for what's achievable in in a script.
• 15:12
  That's a wonderful quote he gives because he's interviewed
• 15:14
  quite a bit where he says, you know, he got a phone call
• 15:18
  saying, and he was a producer. I think at this point, oh, we
• 15:21
  want you to come and be a script editor.
• 15:24
  He's like, no, why on earth would I be a script editor?
• 15:26
  You know, I'm producing now and they go, we want you to do
• 15:29
  Doctor Who. And his immediate response was,
• 15:31
  ah, well, that's a bit different.
• 15:34
  And he was there to do it. That was a good a good double
• 15:40
  shot, wasn't it? It's like I said though, none of
• 15:43
  them are showy. I'm not showy.
• 15:45
  A lot of the time when when we do this in Doctor Who, they try
• 15:48
  and show off or they're trying to overcomplicate the shots and
• 15:51
  then they don't work. But the thing that they have
• 15:54
  perfected is moving where the split is in the middle of a
• 15:58
  scene. So, you know, you wouldn't,
• 16:03
  you're in Baton Island now, but where is it used to be kind of
• 16:06
  locked off and it was literally half of the screen or 1/4 of
• 16:09
  the, you know, whatever bit and that you had to stay within your
• 16:11
  half. They can move it around now.
• 16:12
  There are those scenes in Underworld where they come out
• 16:15
  from behind a, a cable and then they walk in front of it.
• 16:19
  It, it may look pretty shonky, but actually someone is, is
• 16:23
  keying out the right bit for just the right length of time
• 16:26
  and then bringing it out so that they can walk in front of the
• 16:29
  thing. It's, you know, a lot of work.
• 16:30
  So. For of this, there's a scene in
• 16:34
  Princess Trella's cell with her Romana where she's showing her
• 16:38
  how to sew. I defy you to find the line
• 16:41
  because I was looking so hot and I was like, I can't see where
• 16:44
  the joint is and the doctor walks into the room and they
• 16:48
  both. React and they both react.
• 16:49
  Beautifully done. Yeah, really, really well done.
• 16:55
  I say, oh gosh, if this is the episode where she gets out and
• 16:58
  gets on the horse, isn't it? And goes go.
• 17:00
  Charge her and start. Yes.
• 17:03
  Yeah, I've done that in this castle as well.
• 17:05
  There wasn't a horse, but I presented.
• 17:09
  Oh, I love all of this in the summer house.
• 17:11
  The Summer House. When he comes out the door and
• 17:13
  goes liar. That shuts the door.
• 17:16
  And the explosions are all going off around them.
• 17:19
  Oh, it's just great I can. This is the absolute perfect
• 17:23
  example, James, of you've had a bad day and you want to come
• 17:28
  home and you just want to watch a really fun Doctor Who story.
• 17:31
  This is not. This is something I would put on
• 17:33
  at the end of a bad day. Oh yeah, I can think of very few
• 17:37
  Doctor Who stories that are this.
• 17:40
  Delta as well. Just sort of, yeah, Delta, we're
• 17:43
  doing all of them, aren't we? Yeah, what's the next fun one
• 17:48
  we're going to do? Well, you've been.
• 17:53
  You've been gently leading me towards Jodie Whittaker
• 17:59
  actually. Well, OK, so if we're going to
• 18:02
  do either the Daleks that that's another one that I think I would
• 18:05
  put on at the end of a long day. Wonderful.
• 18:08
  Funny for the Daleks, but very different from Delta and this.
• 18:12
  Yes, yeah, less of a less of a walk in the park, whereas Delta
• 18:15
  and this you, you, you feel like the picnicking and the and the
• 18:20
  and the fishing are part of the point of it.
• 18:22
  And yet Delta and Android Zatara are kind of written off as
• 18:26
  fluff. But you're right, so much work
• 18:28
  has to go into making this as fun as it is.
• 18:33
  Love that Romana has a bit of agency there as well.
• 18:35
  She knows she organised her own escape.
• 18:39
  Gives the Prince something to do well.
• 18:41
  She gets to play. Comedy.
• 18:42
  When she's on a horse, you know she's.
• 18:44
  Wonderful in those bits. Oh no, we lose Madam Labia now,
• 18:48
  don't we? I mean this is.
• 18:51
  What should I do without you? Find another pest this is.
• 18:54
  You know he's. Androids.
• 18:55
  He's difficult to hate because he is so charming, but that's a
• 19:00
  that's a brutal thing. Have they given him a false
• 19:03
  nose? No, Peter Jeffrey does have a
• 19:06
  pretty big nose. Oh.
• 19:07
  OK, Have they given him that spot though?
• 19:10
  Next to his nose, I mean, he looks very watery.
• 19:13
  He looks like a. I'm going to have to Google
• 19:17
  Peter Jeffries nose now aren't I?
• 19:20
  That could be in the chapter after the arc.
• 19:22
  Command writers hat we can do a chapter on them tar and noses.
• 19:26
  See, you can now where she goes here the gift shop, you can get
• 19:30
  the other side. There, it's a tiny, tiny
• 19:33
  courtyard. So expensive, that gift shop, I
• 19:35
  couldn't believe how much the things were in there.
• 19:38
  Oh, it's just a door at the moment.
• 19:42
  I can I can confirm that Peter Jeffrey has a a pretty.
• 19:46
  An enormous. Nose hooter.
• 19:48
  OK, thank you for that. That's the sort of facts that
• 19:51
  people come to this podcast for. See how this I'm here.
• 19:58
  She could she. Could ride a horse before,
• 20:00
  couldn't she? She had that.
• 20:01
  This is 1 of this is what happens when you get posh totty
• 20:03
  on their Doctor Who. They know how to ride a horse,
• 20:05
  don't they? No.
• 20:06
  Charger stop. Go on Ramona, and this is what
• 20:16
  you get a lot of location work as well, you know.
• 20:20
  And Dudley's ass is absolute peak now it's.
• 20:27
  Like I'm watching Black Beauty. This plan was never going to
• 20:31
  work, was it? No, but I like that.
• 20:35
  Again, it's a bit like the the the Android on the throne being
• 20:38
  a bit obviously an Android. The whole thing is just badly
• 20:40
  thought out because they're because they're running out of.
• 20:44
  Him behind the door is so well timed though, isn't it?
• 20:47
  Hello. Yes.
• 20:49
  Yes, I thought I'd come early. It's really well played this as
• 20:57
  well. It's a good plan.
• 20:58
  I think Tom Baker is appreciating the script.
• 21:02
  You can't always tell, but I but I just think he's he he he's at
• 21:06
  his best when he he's got great lines to work with.
• 21:11
  And that's why a lot of people say he's sort of off the leash,
• 21:15
  isn't he in 16 and 17? I think in 17 he's he's bored of
• 21:19
  the scripts and he's finding his own stuff to do.
• 21:20
  Whereas here it seems to me that he's taking these crafted lines
• 21:24
  and finding interesting ways of delivering them.
• 21:26
  So it's not just his, it's on Baker witticism.
• 21:29
  It's he's found a really funny way of saying that, that line.
• 21:33
  But as well, I think it it is also dependent on how well we
• 21:37
  get some with the director. And we know he loved Michael
• 21:40
  Hayes. So he he probably and how you
• 21:42
  said I would give him a lot of leverage to add bits in and he
• 21:47
  he liked being created. But also you it's when he gets
• 21:50
  on well with the guest actors as well.
• 21:52
  And I think, you know, look at this cast.
• 21:54
  They're all having a ball, aren't they?
• 21:56
  It's it's just like with Beatrice Layman in Stones of
• 21:59
  Blood, yes. Oh, he, yes, he he clearly
• 22:04
  adores sharing any kind of doctor screen time with.
• 22:07
  Her. May I ask you a personal
• 22:09
  question? Are you from outer space?
• 22:12
  No, I'm more from what you. Call in a time.
• 22:15
  I love how rubbish the Android is.
• 22:18
  The Ramana Android just won't do as she's told.
• 22:21
  That enormous beam coming out of her stomach.
• 22:26
  That's it. Mary Tam just sort of flail
• 22:27
  about a bit, attack the pavilion.
• 22:34
  So the one person who dies in this story is is Lamia.
• 22:37
  Yeah, it's almost a shame that anyone dies, right?
• 22:40
  Yeah. I but I, I, I like, I like that
• 22:47
  it, it, it, it gives, I mean, you know, she's a villain, but
• 22:50
  it's, it's such a poignant death because she's such a sad
• 22:54
  character, really. Don't you love the way that
• 22:57
  Christopher Jeffrey throws his head about so dramatically and
• 22:59
  his hair always follows and. His nose follows as well.
• 23:04
  Yeah, wow. All right.
• 23:09
  And I like that. No, he plays it there again,
• 23:12
  It's it's, it's a, it's a moment of subtlety in a not very subtle
• 23:15
  performance. But he plays the anger at Limey,
• 23:19
  his death really nicely as well. But, you know, maybe he didn't
• 23:23
  detest her as much as he is been suggesting that he does to her
• 23:28
  face. Did you read the target novel at
• 23:30
  this one? No, I never did.
• 23:32
  There's a new one, isn't it, that David Fisher?
• 23:34
  Wrote. That's right.
• 23:35
  Yes. Well, yes.
• 23:36
  No, I haven't read it either. I think I'm going to be doing it
• 23:39
  with Fraser on the book club at some point.
• 23:40
  I'll be interested to see how he writes those characters.
• 23:45
  Who? Who wrote the original?
• 23:46
  Terrell Sticks. It's a Dicks.
• 23:48
  Yeah, Fisher was not pleased. So we had a crack himself.
• 23:53
  Liar. And this is the second time
• 23:58
  where, say, Canine's nose blaster gets him out of a sticky
• 24:01
  situation. Yep Yep, I do like a sparky
• 24:05
  explosion as well. It's not always appropriate.
• 24:07
  I just wish the explosion matched where the laser beam was
• 24:10
  so, but I think you'll find that look that there you go, the the
• 24:13
  fire is ahead of the beam there. Yeah, that, but when you when
• 24:23
  you know what they had to go through to kind of put one of
• 24:26
  the, you know, put any beam on AI think also you've got Tom
• 24:31
  Baker really selling it and the fact that he punches out at the
• 24:33
  end, you can say I. Think Tom Baker is what sells
• 24:36
  canine though the fact. That you believe.
• 24:39
  That relationship with that tin dog is because he, I was about
• 24:45
  to say personified, but he he treats it like a dog.
• 24:49
  Here we go. Man for himself, canine.
• 24:51
  Oh, I. Love it when Doctor Who's
• 24:52
  running around in woods, you know, Here comes Ramana.
• 24:59
  Full on sort of swashbuckle now, aren't we?
• 25:01
  It really is. And again, this is, you know,
• 25:03
  the, the, the shape of Episode 3.
• 25:06
  It's a great. One for himself, canine.
• 25:08
  You imagine canine going across that grass.
• 25:10
  Come on. Oh.
• 25:13
  He goes after the woman and swishes his Cape, and then Kayla
• 25:18
  knocks about four of them out. I love it.
• 25:22
  Just look at that and his reaction is, there we go, There
• 25:26
  we go. I think I might start using that
• 25:29
  reaction in life. Oh, it's slapping my head in
• 25:32
  disgust. Arsene, this is great.
• 25:35
  So you feel like, you know, they've got everything under
• 25:38
  control we've got. Ramana.
• 25:44
  Their sort of plans are all going count.
• 25:46
  Grendel comes in as an evil decoy A.
• 25:56
  Message for you from the real King.
• 26:00
  Sorry, I'm just forgotten that we were commentating.
• 26:02
  I'm just enjoying the the program.
• 26:04
  I'm sort of watching it as well. We need to do some less
• 26:07
  entertaining ones that I can I can talk over more.
• 26:09
  It's Count Grendel, he goes. I'll kill.
• 26:12
  That traitor. Oh, that's it, they go.
• 26:17
  Go out in the backroom. Yeah, and I like this.
• 26:20
  They don't trust him under a flag of truce, but they've got
• 26:23
  to. They've got to welcome him
• 26:24
  because he's got a flag. Of truce.
• 26:26
  That's the rules. And then the Doctor pops his
• 26:30
  head out and he goes, oh, Doctor, there you are.
• 26:34
  There's just a a weird geniality about all of it isn't?
• 26:37
  It I love it. I love the, I love the yeah, the
• 26:40
  gentleman villain thing. And I love that his costumes are
• 26:43
  very slightly ridiculous. That helmet is absurd.
• 26:47
  And it's the thing I love about period robbers, James, is that
• 26:50
  sort of faux politeness. Even when they're angry.
• 26:53
  They have to kind of be. Polite with each other.
• 26:55
  Do you remember that bit in Pride and Prejudice where
• 26:57
  Elizabeth Bennett goes, Mr. Darcy, and says, you know, there
• 27:02
  has no circumstances in which I would?
• 27:04
  Ever marry you and even though she's.
• 27:06
  Basically saying fuck. Off.
• 27:08
  She's so polite. Very polite, and of course Tom
• 27:11
  Baker just fits straight into that world.
• 27:15
  That's sort of the character he's playing most of the time
• 27:17
  anyway. He's full boggle wide now.
• 27:21
  What have you become? Go on, Kingmaker.
• 27:23
  Extraordinary. Now this is, this is also
• 27:31
  Prisoner of Zenderesk, because the, the the rakish secondary
• 27:36
  villain that I mentioned does try to do a deal.
• 27:41
  It's, it's the, it's the thing where everyone knows everything.
• 27:45
  You know, they all know that it's not the real king, but no
• 27:49
  one quite knows how far they trust each other.
• 27:52
  And there are people who are going to change sides.
• 27:54
  So the fact that Grendel comes over here, you know, OK, we
• 27:57
  can't have the old king, but maybe you could be the king.
• 27:59
  That's it's ridiculous, but it, it, it fits the, the passion of
• 28:06
  this, of this story beautifully. I think that Count Grendel has
• 28:11
  about 15 plans before breakfast because he's just been foiled
• 28:15
  and two minutes later he's here with another new plan.
• 28:21
  Oh wow, look at that. He threw the spear in the
• 28:23
  Android. They jumped straight over the.
• 28:25
  Balance and and it's a good jump cut as well because they have
• 28:28
  got Neville Jason sitting, sitting in that position right
• 28:33
  in the shop right before it's very nicely done.
• 28:36
  Oh, poor Ramon, I captured again.
• 28:40
  Well, of course they've all got to be in the castle for the
• 28:41
  wedding to work in the last episode.
• 28:44
  I mean, it's a Doctor Who story that ends with a wedding that's
• 28:47
  quite rare. It's yeah, it's not Mary Tams
• 28:52
  strongest moment getting recaptured that easily, is it?
• 28:55
  Well, no, but we didn't really see much of it just there on the
• 28:58
  back of a horse. It is true.
• 29:00
  Shouldn't have gone out into the back room.
• 29:03
  I'll hire us a couple of horses, James, and when we go up to
• 29:05
  Leeds Castle we'll play out the whole thing.
• 29:08
  All right, well. That was a delight again.
• 29:11
  Now, not only is there a wedding in the last episode, there's a
• 29:15
  fabulous storming of the castle, a sword fight.
• 29:18
  I mean, it's all going on in the climax of the Andrews of Tara.
• 29:22
  Yep, Yep. And and and just to go back to
• 29:26
  the the source material that those are all think that Mote is
• 29:29
  taken from prisoner of sender. The, the underground passage,
• 29:33
  the, the, the, the secret way in and the, and the storming of the
• 29:38
  castle is all you know. And, and actually one of the
• 29:42
  things that Zender has got going for it as source material is
• 29:45
  that it is a very small group of people trying to kind of do this
• 29:47
  secretive thing. They don't have huge armies.
• 29:50
  It's, it's a, it's a tiny band of people.
• 29:52
  So in a sense, it's the the perfect source material for a
• 29:56
  series that can only afford an army of two to storm the castle.
• 30:00
  I wonder David Fisher look to that for inspiration.
• 30:04
  Well, I can't bear to wait a second more.
• 30:07
  Should we go and see how this thing ends I.
• 30:08
  Think we should see how this thing ends?
• 30:11
  Let's do it.