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From The Desk - When Political Anger Turns To Violence · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: A Poche Production. Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Adam Shand, and this is my Friday
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: feature from the desk. This week, the alleged attack on
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: independent federal MP Helen Haynes has captured the nation's attention
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and confronted us with questions that reach well beyond politics.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: How do we protect the people we elect? How do
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: we preserve our ability to approach them? And what responsibility
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: do we all carry for the anger and threatening language
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  Speaker 1: that have become familiar features of social media?
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  Speaker 2: Let's go to our top story this morning. The man
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  Speaker 2: accused of repeatedly mowing down Victorian MP Helen Haynes has
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  Speaker 2: been charged overnight.
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  Speaker 1: Detectives are still trying to work out exactly why Ms
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  Speaker 1: Haynes was targeted. First though, is Helen herself. Her husband
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Phil confirmed on Wednesday that surgeons had amputated both her legs.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: following the incident outside her Wangaratta electorate office on Monday.
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  Speaker 1: He said she was alive and stable and that her
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  Speaker 1: heart and mind were in good shape. Behind those words
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  Speaker 1: is a family trying to absorb a devastating change in
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  Speaker 1: their lives. Our thoughts are with Helen and her family.
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  Speaker 1: Before we turn Helen into a symbol of anything, we
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  Speaker 1: should remember the person and the people who love her.
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  Speaker 1: Brendan Nugent, the 43-year-old man accused of driving into her,
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  Speaker 1: has appeared in court charged with offences including intentionally causing
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: serious injury, dangerous driving causing serious injury and causing harm
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  Speaker 1: to a Commonwealth public official. He didn't apply for bail
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and has been remanded in custody. Those allegations must now
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  Speaker 1: proceed through the courts. We must also be careful about motive.
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  Speaker 1: We do not yet have an established explanation for what happened.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We can't simply examine someone's social media posts, select the
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  Speaker 1: ones that suit our politics and declare the case solved.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, motive is not even critical to the prosecution.
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  Speaker 1: It's secondary to what his intention might have been. If
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  Speaker 1: police have evidence that it was his intention to murder Helen,
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  Speaker 1: then Nugent may yet face attempted murder charges. Motive will
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of course be important to the public, but it's not
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: at the forefront of investigators' minds. I think it's worth
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: discussing the society in which this has happened. An attack
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  Speaker 1: like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. This does not
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  Speaker 1: mean we can draw a proven line from a particular
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: comment to this alleged crime. It means we should examine
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  Speaker 1: the environment around public life, the threats, the dehumanising language
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: and the growing willingness to treat political opponents as people
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  Speaker 1: who deserve whatever happens to them. I hear this in
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  Speaker 1: some of the comments to my Facebook posts this week.
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  Speaker 1: that Helen is facing karma. What a disgraceful thing to say.
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  Speaker 1: There's a distinction between investigating an individual's alleged actions and asking,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: what are we allowing to become normal? We need to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: do both. One of the strengths of our Australian democracy
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  Speaker 1: is that our elected representatives live amongst us. You can
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  Speaker 1: encounter your local member in a supermarket, at a school event,
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  Speaker 1: at the footy, or walking down the street. You can
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: approach them. You can ask them questions. You can tell
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: them when they've got something wrong. That access matters, especially
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: outside the capital cities where people expect their representatives to
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  Speaker 1: be part of the community. Now we face the prospect
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  Speaker 1: of more barriers, more security and more distance. These are
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: practical questions that deserve urgent attention. Are electorate officers properly
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: assessed for threats? Do staff know what to do when
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: someone becomes threatening? Can police identify patterns across repeated incidents?
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  Speaker 1: Are representatives and their employees getting the protection their circumstances require?
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  Speaker 1: Those decisions should be informed by evidence and professional assessment.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: But security measures alone cannot settle this. There's no point
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  Speaker 1: in making every electorate office harder to enter and leaving
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  Speaker 1: untouched the hostility directed at the people inside. Earlier this week,
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  Speaker 1: Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke said incidents of threatening or
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  Speaker 1: harassing behaviour towards Australian lawmakers had risen to 1,067 in
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  Speaker 1: the past year, up from 951. That describes a problem
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  Speaker 1: extending far beyond one electorate or one political allegiance. And
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  Speaker 1: it brings me to social media.
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  Speaker 2: I run a.
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  Speaker 1: Facebook page where we discuss crime, punishment, policing, and the
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  Speaker 1: failures of institutions. These subjects provoke strong feelings, and they should.
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  Speaker 1: People who've suffered injustice have every reason to be angry.
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  Speaker 1: Families failed by the courts or by government deserve to
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  Speaker 1: be heard. I've spent much of my working life listening
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  Speaker 1: to those comments and complaints. Anger can be a powerful
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  Speaker 1: demand for accountability. But there is a point at which
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  Speaker 1: a discussion stops being about accountability and becomes an invitation
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  Speaker 1: to harm someone. I've tried to keep vile incitements to
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  Speaker 1: violence from creeping into the comments on my own posts.
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  Speaker 1: That requires attention because a discussion can change character very quickly.
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  Speaker 1: Someone makes an accusation, another person escalates it. Then comes
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  Speaker 1: the suggestion that the person being discussed deserves a beating
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  Speaker 1: or worse. I've seen this more times than I care
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  Speaker 1: to remember, frankly. Soon people are competing to produce the
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  Speaker 1: most vicious response. and the person at the centre of
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  Speaker 1: it disappears beneath the insults.
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  Speaker 2: I have a.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Responsibility for the discussions that I host. And I should
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  Speaker 1: make a confession here. When someone leaves a vile comment
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  Speaker 1: on my page, I generally don't respond. I'm much more
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  Speaker 1: likely to quietly hide it. I see no value in
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  Speaker 1: giving their rage another audience or feeding it with an argument.
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  Speaker 1: My hope is that taking the comment out of the
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  Speaker 1: wider discussion helps defuse the situation. Personally, these comments tend
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  Speaker 1: to bounce off me, but I recognise that other people
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  Speaker 1: experience abuse very differently, and my ability to shrug it
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  Speaker 1: off doesn't make it acceptable. I want people to challenge me,
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  Speaker 1: to question my conclusions, and tell me when I've got
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: something wrong. That's part of the job. But I also
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  Speaker 1: have a responsibility to keep the discussion from becoming a
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  Speaker 1: place where threats and cruelty are encouraged. That applies... even
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  Speaker 1: when the target is someone I've criticised, especially then. You
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  Speaker 1: can't set a standard against threats and quietly suspend it
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  Speaker 1: when you dislike the person receiving them. Nor should anyone
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  Speaker 1: mistake that standard for a demand that Australians become meek
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  Speaker 1: or deferential. Politicians exercise power over our lives. They should
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  Speaker 1: face scrutiny. They're paid for it. Their claims should be tested.
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  Speaker 1: Their failures should be examined. They should expect satire, protest,
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  Speaker 1: difficult interviews and determined opposition. We can do all of
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  Speaker 1: that while recognising their right to go home safely. The
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  Speaker 1: same responsibility extends to political leaders, commentators and media organisations.
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  Speaker 1: We should consider the words we choose and the claims
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  Speaker 1: we amplify. If we make a serious allegation, we should
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  Speaker 1: have evidence. If we get something wrong, we should quickly
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  Speaker 1: correct it. And when threatening language comes from the people
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  Speaker 1: on our side of an argument, we should always challenge it. Otherwise,
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  Speaker 1: calls for decency become another political weapon, something we demand
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  Speaker 1: from opponents while excusing ourselves. Social media companies also have
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  Speaker 1: questions to answer about how they handle credible threats, repeated harassment,
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  Speaker 1: and reports from people being targeted. A reporting button is
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  Speaker 1: of limited value if a person can't get a meaningful response.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of box ticking in this situation. You hit
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  Speaker 1: the report button and nothing happens generally. Tell me I'm wrong.
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  Speaker 1: There's also been reporting about the accused man's health. His
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  Speaker 1: lawyer told the court he had a neurological condition and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: raised mental health concerns. Those matters require proper assessment. They
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  Speaker 1: don't give the public an explanation of the alleged offence.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: We should resist diagnosing a stranger from a screen. We
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  Speaker 1: should also resist using mental illness as a shorthand for violence.
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  Speaker 1: The legal process must establish what can be said about
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  Speaker 1: this individual case. Our responsibility for our own conduct does
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  Speaker 1: not have to wait for that process to finish. Before posting,
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  Speaker 1: we can ask ourselves a few straightforward questions. Is this true?
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  Speaker 1: Am I making an argument or encouraging people to hate someone?
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  Speaker 1: Would I accept those words being directed at someone that
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  Speaker 1: I love? And if a threat appears in a discussion
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  Speaker 1: we control, are we prepared to act? Helen Haynes and
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  Speaker 1: her family now face the consequences of a devastating event.
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  Speaker 1: Our first thoughts should remain with them and with the
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: people caring for her. The national attention this week should
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  Speaker 1: also lead to something lasting. Better protection where it's needed.
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  Speaker 1: Serious treatment of threats. and a willingness to take responsibility
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  Speaker 1: for the conversations we create. A functioning democracy depends on
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  Speaker 1: people being able to disagree, sometimes fiercely, and still coexist.
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  Speaker 2: As a community.
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  Speaker 1: We should be able to argue with our elected representatives
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  Speaker 1: without making them fear for their lives. And we should
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  Speaker 1: be able to express anger without giving violence an audience
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  Speaker 1: that cheers it on. I'm Adam Shan from The Desk.
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  Speaker 1: You can join the conversation on Facebook, but be careful
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  Speaker 1: what you bring into the public square because others might
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  Speaker 1: take it home. Thanks for listening.
• 10:56
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• 10:59
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• 11:02
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• 11:05
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