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Patrick Clancy Threatens Legal Action Against Conspiracy Theorists · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So imagine a jury is completely deadlocked on whether a
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: mother was in her right mind when she killed her
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: three young children. Right.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: The legal system just totally hits a wall.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Exactly. But then you jump over to like TikTok or
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Instagram and a million strangers have already convicted someone.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they convicted the one person completely cleared by
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the police, which is the grieving father.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: It's just wild. Welcome to the Deep Dive. I'm so
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: glad you're here with us today because, well... We are
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: tackling something incredibly heavy, but it's fundamentally necessary to understand
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: if you spend any time at all on the Internet.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: It really is a terrifying phenomenon, and it's kind of
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: becoming the default setting for how we process high-profile tragedy
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: in the digital age.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're exploring the real-world collision of this devastating family tragedy,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the court of law, and the totally unchecked, unregulated court
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: of public opinion.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're basically moving from a society that consumes
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: news To a society that crowdsources vigilantism.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Which is such a dark way to put it, but
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: it's true. We're pulling our source material today from some
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: deeply sobering reporting out of CBS Boston. And this is
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: dated September 2026. Right. The reporting covers the immediate aftermath
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: of the Lindsay Clancy trial. And specifically, we're zeroing in
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: on this blistering, unprecedented legal threat issued by her ex-husband,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Patrick Clancy.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: And that threat was directed straight at online conspiracy theorists.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So our mission for this deep dive is to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: deconstruct this entire timeline. We need to look at the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: legal vacuum that birthed these Internet rumors, analyze the actual
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: grinding mechanics of defamation law in a Web 3.0 world.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and ultimately bring it back to the profound human cost
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: on the survivors.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Because when you strip away the hashtags and the trending
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: audio and the algorithmic engagement, you're left with real people
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: trying to survive the absolute worst moments of their human existence.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's unpack this. The jury's silence essentially created
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a vacuum.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a massive one.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And if there's one thing the internet algorithm loves, it's
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: filling a vacuum with the most inflammatory content possible. But
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to understand why the internet reacted the way it did,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: We have to start with the tragedy itself, right?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Right. And the legal stalemate that followed.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: So let's ground ourselves in the facts of what happened
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: in Duxbury, Massachusetts in January of 2023. Lindsay Clancy, through
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: her defense attorney, admitted to taking the lives of her
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: three young children inside their home. Cora, Dawson and Callan.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: It's just an unimaginable tragedy.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: It really is. However, she pleaded not guilty to first
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: degree murder.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And that specific plea-like, admitting the physical act but denying
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the criminal culpability, is the central pillar of this entire
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: legal saga.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Right, because the trial, which just ended in a mistrial
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: last week due to a deadlocked jury, wasn't a whodunit.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It was entirely focused on her state of mind.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: The legal standard in Massachusetts and, well, in many jurisdictions,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: hinges on criminal responsibility.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So meaning, was she aware of what she was doing? Yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Was Lindsay Clancy criminally responsible, or was she suffering from
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: a mental disease or defect so severe that she lacked
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  Speaker 2: the substantial capacity to either appreciate the wrongfulness of her
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  Speaker 2: conduct or conform her conduct to the requirements of the law?
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  Speaker 1: I want to pause you right there, actually, because the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: reporting notes, the defense focused heavily on perinatal mental health challenges.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: They did, yes.
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  Speaker 1: Specifically postpartum psychosis and postpartum depression. And I feel like...
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Those terms get thrown around in the media a lot,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: often used interchangeably, which seems incredibly dangerous.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's extremely dangerous. They are fundamentally different conditions.
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  Speaker 1: So can you give us like an explain it like
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: five breakdown on the medical and psychiatric difference here? Like
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: what does that actually mean to be in a state
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of postpartum psychosis?
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  Speaker 2: It's a crucial distinction. So let's break it down mechanically.
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  Speaker 2: Postpartum depression is classified as a severe mood disorder.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: It's characterized by intense feelings of sadness, lethargy, anxiety, and
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  Speaker 2: exhaustion that can really interfere with a mother's ability to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: care for herself or her baby.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: That's the one that's pretty common, right?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's relatively common, affecting roughly one in seven new mothers.
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  Speaker 2: The brain's chemistry is altered, usually due to the massive
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: hormonal crash of estrogen and progesterone after childbirth. Combined with,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: you know, severe sleep deprivation.
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  Speaker 1: So it's a mood disorder. It affects how you feel
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  Speaker 1: and your energy levels, but you're still rooted in reality.
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  Speaker 2: Precisely. Postpartum psychosis, on the other hand, is a psychiatric emergency.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: It is exceptionally rare, affecting maybe one or two out
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  Speaker 2: of every thousand deliveries. And it is not just a
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  Speaker 2: mood disorder. It is a complete break from reality.
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  Speaker 1: A complete break. So what does that actually look like
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  Speaker 1: for the person experiencing it?
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  Speaker 2: The mechanics of psychosis involve hallucinations, so seeing or hearing
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  Speaker 2: things that aren't there, and severe delusions, which are fixed,
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  Speaker 2: false beliefs that just cannot be changed by logic or evidence.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: That's terrifying. It is.
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  Speaker 2: In a state of postpartum psychosis, a mother might genuinely believe,
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  Speaker 2: due to a severe chemical misfiring in the brain, that
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  Speaker 2: her baby is demonic or that the only way to
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  Speaker 2: save her children from a worse fate is to end
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  Speaker 2: their lives.
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  Speaker 1: That is horrifying. The brain is literally feeding the person
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  Speaker 1: a completely false reality. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: The cognitive processing centers are entirely hijacked. So when the
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  Speaker 2: defense in the Clancy trial mounts a case based on this,
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  Speaker 2: they aren't arguing that she was just stressed or sad.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: They are arguing that a catastrophic biological psychiatric event literally
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: erased her ability to understand reality, meaning that The legal
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: prerequisites for murder malice of forethought and intent could not
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  Speaker 2: legally exist.
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  Speaker 1: And that incredibly complex, nuanced psychiatric reality was just handed
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  Speaker 1: over to a jury.
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  Speaker 2: A jury of everyday people. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And they just couldn't reach a consensus. Yeah. Like the
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  Speaker 1: CBS Boston reporting highlights an interview with an anonymous juror
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: who bluntly stated there was so much doubt.
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  Speaker 2: Which is exactly why we ended up with a mistrial.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: They were hopelessly deadlocked.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to visualize this for a listener. Think
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of a high profile trial. Like a massive, intricate puzzle
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: being assembled in the public square. Everyone is watching. But
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: then the trial ends and the centerpiece of the puzzle,
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  Speaker 1: the definitive legal why, is just missing. It's like leaving
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: a locked box in the middle of a crowded room.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: That's a really good analogy.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Because human nature abhors a vacuum. If the official justice
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: system can't or won't open the box and show us
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  Speaker 1: what's inside, the Internet will just invent a narrative about
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: what's in there.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: That's a powerful way to frame it. I mean, the
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  Speaker 2: human brain is essentially a pattern recognition machine.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: We want things to make sense.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly. We are biologically wired to seek causality. When an
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: event happens that violates our core understanding of the world,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: like a mother harming her own children, it creates massive
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: cognitive dissonance.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Right, because it just goes against every instinct we have
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  Speaker 1: about parenting and protection.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: We desperately need a concrete, understandable explanation to make the
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: world feel safe again. We want a recognizable villain. The
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: ambiguity of a deadlocked jury is terrifying to the public
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  Speaker 2: because it implies that sometimes unimaginable tragedy has no easily
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: definable villain.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Which is the perfect pivot to what happened next. Because
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  Speaker 1: if the brain hates ambiguity, social media algorithms absolutely despise it.
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  Speaker 2: But totally. Social media is built to deliver certainty.
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  Speaker 1: Usually wrapped in outrage, right? So we leave the physical,
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  Speaker 1: heavily structured, rule-bound environment of the Plymouth Superior Court... And
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: we enter the digital tribunal.
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  Speaker 2: The Wild West.
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  Speaker 1: Literally the Wild West of TikTok, Instagram, and Reddit. Over
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  Speaker 1: the summer of 2026, as the trial media peaked, we
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: saw this explosion of completely baseless theories. And the target
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  Speaker 1: of these theories, Patrick Clancy.
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  Speaker 2: The father who had just lost his entire family.
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  Speaker 1: It's so messed up. The specific claims being propagated were
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  Speaker 1: just abhorrent. Influencers and amateur sleuths were positing that Patrick
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: was secretly the mastermind. that he orchestrated the tragedy, or
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that he manipulated Lindsay into it.
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  Speaker 2: And we have to ask ourselves, how does a baseless
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: rumor evolve into a viral consensus?
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  Speaker 1: Break that down for me. How does the algorithm actually
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: reward this behavior? Why does a fake conspiracy theory get
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: a million views while a nuanced breakdown of the legal
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  Speaker 1: proceedings gets buried?
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  Speaker 2: It comes down to the mechanics of the attention economy.
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  Speaker 2: It's all about the metrics that govern the For You
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  Speaker 2: page or the Explore feed.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: These platforms utilize machine learning models optimized for two primary things,
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  Speaker 2: watch time and engagement.
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  Speaker 1: And engagement meaning what exactly?
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  Speaker 2: Engagement means likes, shares, and crucially, comments. Now imagine a
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: creator posts a highly nuanced, respectful video explaining the Brawner
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  Speaker 2: rule of criminal responsibility.
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  Speaker 1: Right, a legal breakdown.
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  Speaker 2: A user might watch it, think, oh, that's interesting, and
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: scroll on. Maybe they give it two seconds of watch time.
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  Speaker 2: No comment.
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  Speaker 1: Right. It's educational, but it's passive.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Now, imagine another creator sits in a dark room with
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  Speaker 2: a ring light, puts a red filter on the screen,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: plays a low-frequency thumping bass track, and whispers, the police
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  Speaker 2: are lying to you about the Duxbury case. I found
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  Speaker 2: something in the husband's background.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, even you just saying that, I want to
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  Speaker 1: know what they supposedly found. It's a cliffhanger. Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. The human brain's threat detection system is activated. You
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  Speaker 2: stop scrolling. Watch time goes up.
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  Speaker 1: Because you have to know the secret.
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  Speaker 2: You watch to the end to hear the quote-unquote secret evidence,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: which boosts the completion rate metric. And that is a
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: massive signal to the algorithm that this content is sticky.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Sticky meaning people stay on the app.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. Then the comments section turns into an absolute war zone.
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  Speaker 2: Half the people are arguing with the creator, calling them
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  Speaker 2: a liar. The other half are agreeing and adding their
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  Speaker 2: own wild theories.
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  Speaker 1: But the algorithm doesn't care if they're arguing, does it?
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  Speaker 2: Not at all. To the algorithm, the system doesn't know
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  Speaker 2: the difference between a comet saying you're a genius and
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  Speaker 2: a comet saying you're a monster.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: It just sees high comet density and high watch time.
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  Speaker 2: So it mathematically concludes... This piece of content keeps users
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  Speaker 2: on the app. Push it to 10,000 more feeds.
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  Speaker 1: It's basically a machine built to monetize outrage. We've seen
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  Speaker 1: this happen before, haven't we? This is the first time
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  Speaker 1: the internet decided to play detective with disastrous real-world consequences.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Not at all. If you want a historical parallel, look
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: at the aftermath of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that was a disaster.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: It was. On Reddit, thousands of amateur sleuths analyzed photos
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  Speaker 2: and collectively decided that a missing Brown University student named
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Sunil Tripathi was the bomber.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I remember that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: It became a viral consensus. His family, who were desperately
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: looking for their missing son, were suddenly besieged by death
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: threats and media vans.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: And he had nothing to do with it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Sunil was entirely innocent. He had tragically taken his own
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: life before the bombings even occurred.
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  Speaker 1: It's just so heartbreaking.
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  Speaker 2: Or look at the Gabby Petito case. where the entire
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: true crime community turned a tragic domestic homicide into a
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: gamified daily episodic reality show hunting for clues in the
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  Speaker 2: background of Instagram photos.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Use the word gamified, and I really want to drill
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: down into that. Are you saying these online audiences actually
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: view themselves as active participants in the justice system?
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. The architecture of the internet has shifted us from
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: passive consumers of media to active participants. Well, in a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: traditional true crime documentary, you sit on your couch and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: let the narrative wash over you. On TikTok, the creator
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: is speaking directly into the lens, asking for your theories
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: in the comments.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: They're literally asking you to join in.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they encourage you to go frame by frame on evidence.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: It creates a parasocial illusion of agency.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Wow, an illusion of agency.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: The audience feels like they are part of a decentralized
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: detective agency, fundamentally detaching themselves from the reality that these
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: are real human beings bleeding in the real world.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Which brings us to the most staggering irony of this
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: entire situation. The CBS reporting is crystal clear on this point.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: There was zero evidence of Patrick Clancy's involvement presented in court.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Not a shred.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing at all.
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  Speaker 1: He wasn't some shadow he says are hiding behind a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: legal team. He was the very first witness called to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the stand by the prosecution.
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  Speaker 2: He subjected himself to the most rigorous truth finding mechanism
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: we have, which is a sworn oath and cross examination
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: in a court of law.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Right. And I really want you listening right now to
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: sit with that for a second. Think about your own
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: digital habits. How many times have you scrolled past a
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: video with dramatic text overlays, eerie music, and a confident narrator,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and just implicitly trusted the premise?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: It happens so fast you don't even realize you're doing it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: It's terrifyingly easy to consume this stuff as cheap entertainment
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and forget that when you hit share, you are participating
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: in the destruction of a real person's life.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Because the packaging is everything. When you package a raw,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: bleeding tragedy in the exact same aesthetic format as a
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: fictional Netflix thriller, the audience's brain categorizes the real people
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: as fictional characters.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And fictional characters don't have feelings.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They don't suffer. You can villainize a character without consequence.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Or at least that is the illusion the Internet provides.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about shattering that illusion because Patrick Clancy's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: legal team is not taking this lying down.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: No, they're not.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: We're moving into the counterattack phase. And this is where
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the legal rubber meets the digital road. How does a
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: single private citizen, a grieving father, fight back against an invisible,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: decentralized swarm of Internet users?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: He brings in heavy legal artillery.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Exactly. The CBS report details a statement released by Patrick's attorney,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Howard Cooper, on the Tuesday following the mistrial. Let's really
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: analyze the text of this statement.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: It's a fascinating document, mostly because it completely strips away
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the usual measured cautious language of defense attorneys.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: It really is. Cooper states, enough is enough. This spread
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: of blatant and baseless falsehoods must stop. He categorizes the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: behavior as a relentless, escalating, and destructive defamation campaign.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: He's not pulling any punches.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: He points out that the situation has reached a fever
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: pitch and refers to the theories as vile claims. The
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: diction here is incredibly aggressive. He isn't just saying my
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: client is innocent. He's defining the actions of the internet
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: as a hostile, destructive force.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And he grounds that aggression in tangible harm. The statement
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: explicitly details that this campaign has resulted in real-life threats
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: to Patrick's reputation, his livelihood, and his physical safety.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So it's not just people saying mean things online. It's
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: actual danger.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And this is a critical legal maneuver. He is
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: establishing damages. This is no longer a public relations issue
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: about hurt feelings. It is a preamble to civil litigation
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: demonstrating actionable harm.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Caroline Polisi. A legal analyst for CBS News was quoted
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in the reporting calling this statement essentially a very public
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: cease and desist letter.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Which is exactly what it functions as.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: She views it as a clear warning shot that Patrick
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Clancy is preparing to sue these creators. But here is
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: where I want to push back on you and play
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: devil's advocate for a moment.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Go for it.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: This is the Internet. It's supposed to be the modern
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: town square. We have the First Amendment in the United States.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Doesn't the First Amendment protect my right to be wrong
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: on the Internet?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It absolutely protects your right to be wrong.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So how do you legally separate a genuine, albeit deeply stupid,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: opinion from actionable defamation?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: That is the million-dollar question in modern Internet law, and
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: it's a fantastic pushback. Let's unpack the mechanics of defamation.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: The First Amendment protects a massive amount of speech, including opinions, hyperbole,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: and even insulting language. If a TikToker says, I watched
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Patrick's testimony and I think he's a total jerk, that
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: is an opinion.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: It is entirely protected. You cannot prove or disprove jerkness objectively.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so insults are protected. I can go online and
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: say someone is a jerk or annoying.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, you can. Defamation, however, requires specific elements. First, there
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: must be a false statement of fact.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: A statement of fact. Got it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Second, it must be published to a third party. And yes,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: meaning posting online totally counts as publishing.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Obviously.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Third, it must cause injury to the person's reputation. And fourth,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: it must be unprivileged. The key hinge point is false
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: statement of fact.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So saying he's a jerk is an opinion, but saying
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: he did something specific. Right.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: If an influencer goes online and explicitly states Patrick Clancy
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: poisoned his wife's food to make her psychotic or Patrick
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Clancy paid off the police to hide his involvement, they
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: are not stating an opinion.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: They are asserting a factual reality that can be objectively disproven.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: But what about the public figure defense? I know that
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: if you are a politician or a celebrity, it's much
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: harder to sue for defamation because you have to prove
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: actual malice.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Does Patrick Clancy count as a public figure now just
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: because his tragedy was in the news? Like, he didn't
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: ask for this.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: That's a highly sophisticated legal nuance. In defamation law, following
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the landmark New York Times v. Sullivan case... A public
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: figure must indeed prove actual malice.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Remind me what actual malice means in this context.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: It means the person spreading the lie either knew it
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: was explicitly false or acted with reckless disregard for the truth.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a very high bar.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Very high. For a private citizen, the standard is usually
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: much lower, which is simple negligence. Now, is Patrick Clancy
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a public figure?
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's famous now, but for the worst reason ever.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Most legal scholars would argue he is, at most, an involuntary,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: limited-purpose public figure.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Involuntary, limited-purpose public figure. Okay.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Right. He didn't seek out fame. He was thrust into
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the spotlight by a crime. But even if a judge
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: ruled he had to meet the higher actual malice standard,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Cooper's legal threat is laying the groundwork for that exact standard.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Wait, how so? How does a press release lay the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: groundwork for malice?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Because once Howard Cooper publicly releases a statement categorically denying
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the claims and pointing to the court record, any creator
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: who continues to post those conspiracy theories can no longer
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: claim ignorance.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Cooper has put them on notice. Continuing to spread the
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: lies after being publicly corrected edges very close to that
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: reckless disregard for the truth standard required for actual malice.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: That is brilliant. It's essentially a trap.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: A very well-designed legal trap.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: The statement itself becomes the evidence of malice for future posts.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: But I have another logistical hurdle for you because this
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: one always confuses me.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Let's say Patrick wants to sue TikTok user. I don't know.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: True Crime Sleuth 99. That user has a cartoon avatar
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and no real name attached to their profile.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Very common.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It's an anonymous mob. How do you serve a lawsuit
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: to an avatar? I mean, you can't mail a subpoena
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to a username.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: It's difficult, but it is far from impossible. The Internet
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: feels anonymous, but it leaves a massive paper trail.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Like digital footprints.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like trying to dust for digital fingerprints in
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: a room where everyone is wearing masks. The masks make
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: it hard, but they still leave traces. Patrick's team would
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: file what's known as a John Doe lawsuit against the
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: unknown defendants.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: OK, so you sue a placeholder name.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Once the lawsuit is filed, the judge grants them
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: subpoena power.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Meaning they can legally force companies to hand over data.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They serve a subpoena to TikTok or Instagram or Google.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: demanding the IP addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses associated
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: with those specific accounts.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And once they have the IP address?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Once they have the IP address, they can subpoena the
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: internet service provider, so like Comcast or Verizon. And the
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: ISP then matches that IP address to a physical home
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: address and a billing name.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: The anonymity of the internet is a very thin veil
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: if someone with enough money and legal motivation decides to
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: pierce it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So Cooper saying law enforcement has been notified is really
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: a threat.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Cooper's statement noting that law enforcement has been notified is
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: basically telling these creators your digital mask will not protect
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: you from the physical justice system.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: It's an aggressive, necessary defense. And what makes this legal
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: posturing even more fascinating is the reaction from the other
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: side of the courtroom aisle.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: The whiplash is intense.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: It really is. Let's shift our focus from Patrick's legal
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: team to Lindsay Clancy's defense team, specifically her high-profile attorney,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Kevin Reddington.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: The CBS reporting outlines this bizarre paradox in his behavior
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: over a span of just a few days. So follow
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: this timeline. On Friday, the judge officially declares a mistrial.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Shortly after, WBZ-TV reporter Christina Rex catches up with Reddington
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: outside and asks him about the swirling Internet conspiracy theories
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: regarding Patrick. And Reddington's initial response is almost an endorsement.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Which is so strange to hear from a lawyer.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: He literally says, you know, regarding the people on the Internet,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I certainly don't dismiss them. It's amazing what
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: people on TikTok and on Instagram. It's amazing how they're
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: able to ferret out facts and they do investigations.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Which, on its face, is a deeply cynical but tactically
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: common move for a defense attorney.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But why? Why? Why would a seasoned lawyer praise random
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: people on TikTok making up rumors about a victim?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Because a defense attorney's primary job is to introduce reasonable
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: doubt into the minds of the jury. And where does
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the jury pool come from?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: The public.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: The public. If the internet is churning out hundreds of
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: alternative theories, muddying the waters, and creating a narrative that
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the police investigation was flawed, that ambient noise benefits the defense.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see. It creates an atmosphere of uncertainty.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Praising the sleuths is a way of validating the chaos.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: It's outsourcing doubt creation to the algorithm.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Precisely. It's a very calculated PR move.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: But then we fast forward to the following Tuesday. Patrick's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: lawyer releases that blistering statement we just analyzed, threatening legal
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: action against the sleuths.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Reporter Christina Rex goes back to Reddington for a comment
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: on the new statement. And Reddington completely, unequivocally pivots.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: A total 180.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: He abandons the Internet sleuths and mounts a fierce public
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: defense of the prosecution's star witness, Patrick Clancy.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: He says, quote, the guy's been through hell and back.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And he didn't just offer a generic platitude either. Reddington
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: actively dismantled the Internet's narrative by detailing the immense harrowing
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: support Patrick provided to Lindsay leading up to the tragedy.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: He was very specific.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: According to the reporting, Reddington literally listed it out. He
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: talked about Patrick dealing with the doctor's. meticulously managing her
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: complex medication schedules.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Right, which is a full-time job in itself when dealing
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: with severe psychiatric issues.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: He described Patrick being awake at night with her when
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the insomnia hit. He listed the physical locations Patrick took
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: her in desperate attempts to get psychiatric help. He mentioned
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: various doctor's offices, McLean Hospital, Rhode Island Hospital.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: He was trying everything.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: He talked about Patrick sitting with her while calling suicide hotlines.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Reddington explicitly stated, He still stands by her by way
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of his testimony and concluded, I think it's just horrible
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: what he's been going through.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: If we zoom out and look at the bigger picture here,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: this pivot from Reddington is profound.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Why does it matter so much?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Because in our adversarial legal system, the defense and the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: prosecution are designed to be mortal enemies in the courtroom. Right.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: They aren't supposed to agree.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Reddington's entire professional objective was to defend the woman who
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: took Patrick's children. For Reddington to step in front of
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the microphones and actively shield the opposing side's key witness
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: from public abuse speaks volumes.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It tells you that the reality of what Patrick went
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: through is so objectively undeniable that even the man paid
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to oppose him in court couldn't stomach the Internet's lies.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Reddington has seen discovery. He has read every page
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: of Lindsay's medical records.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: He knows what really happened behind closed doors.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: He knows the exact timeline of every frantic phone call
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Patrick made trying to get his wife help before the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: system failed them. Reddington knows the truth. So when the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: internet mob started attacking Patrick, Reddington recognized that the gamification
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: had gone too far.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: It's a massive reality check.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: When opposing counsel validates your suffering, it proves just how
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: completely divorced from reality the Internet conspiracies truly are.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: A reality check. It's exactly what it is. And that
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: brings us to the core of this entire deep dive.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: We have to strip away the legal maneuvering, the constitutional
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: debates about defamation, and the algorithmic mechanics, and look at
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the raw human element.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: The part that actually matters.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The CBS reporting contains a detail that completely grounds
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: this story in reality. And it comes from that anonymous
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: juror we mentioned earlier.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: The juror who admitted they were deadlocked.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yes. The reporter asked the juror directly about the Internet theories.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: The juror confirmed they had seen the same TikToks and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Instagram posts that the rest of the world saw.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: The ones accusing Patrick or claiming he manipulated Lindsay.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly those. And the juror's response completely bypassed logic
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and went straight to a visceral emotional truth that the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Internet sleuths were entirely insulated from. The juror talked about
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the 911 call.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: The audio of Patrick finding his family.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The juror said, I will never be the same
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: after that 911 call. They described hearing a, quote, visceral
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: blood-curdling scream from Patrick. The juror added, I don't think
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I could name a single actor or actress that could
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: have performed that the way he did.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: That phrase, I will never be the same after that,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: is the textbook definition of secondary trauma.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Secondary trauma.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Or vicarious trauma. Jurors in violent crime trials are essentially
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: conscripted by the state to absorb the darkest, most traumatic
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: evidence imaginable.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine sitting in that room.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: They sit in a room and are forced to listen
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to the unfiltered audio of a man's soul breaking. It
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: physically alters your nervous system.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: It's an incredible contrast, isn't it?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I want you listening right now to picture this juxtaposition.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: On one side, you have an influencer.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: They're sitting in a comfortable climate-controlled room. They have a
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: ring light on. They are sipping an iced coffee, adjusting
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: their microphone, and casually making up a story about a
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: murder to get a few thousand likes and maybe some
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: ad revenue.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: It's treated like a performance.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: On the other side, you have a normal citizen, a juror,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: who is just trying to do their civic duty, who
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: is now fundamentally psychologically altered, traumatized, just by hearing a
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: recording of the reality that the influencer is treating as
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: a fun game.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: The dissonance between the screen and the courtroom is sickening.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: It really is. It reveals the ultimate cruelty of the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: true crime industrial complex.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It flattens real human agony into consumable content. The juror
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: understands the gravity of the tragedy because they were forced
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: to bear witness to its reality.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: While the Internet theorists remain intentionally blind to the reality
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: so they can keep playing the game.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: And while the Internet plays games, Patrick Clancy is forced
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to navigate a life after the unthinkable. The reporting provides
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: an update on his current status. He and Lindsay are
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: officially divorced. He has since remarried.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Which is a huge step forward for him.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: But his focus, according to his legal representation, remains fiercely
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: on preserving the memory of his children, Cora, Dawson, and Callan.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And perhaps most remarkably, despite everything, the reporting notes he
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: is actively focused on supporting other women who are facing
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: perinatal mental health challenges.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Which is an astonishing testament to his resilience and his character.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And again, it completely shatters the villainous caricature that the
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: algorithm tried to construct. He is channeling unimaginable grief into
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: systemic advocacy for the exact medical crisis that destroyed his family.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So with the mistrial declared and civil lawsuits looming, where
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: do all these unresolved threads go from here? The legal
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: story is far from a neat conclusion.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: The immediate future of the criminal case rests entirely in
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: the hands of Plymouth District Attorney Tim Cruz.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Because the mistrial just means they didn't get a verdict
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: this time.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Right. The mistrial simply means the first attempt failed. The
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: DA must now make a heavily scrutinized calculation. Do they
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: retry Lindsay Clancy?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Do they put everyone through that again?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Do they put Patrick and the surviving family members through
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: the trauma of another trial knowing another jury might deadlock
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: on the exact same complex psychiatric evidence? Or do they
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: attempt to negotiate a plea deal?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And do we know what they're leaning towards?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: As of this reporting, no decision has been announced.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And what about Lindsay's status right now? She isn't walking free, obviously.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. She has been in state custody, specifically
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: held at Tootsbury Hospital.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Which is a psychiatric facility, right? Yes.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: It's a facility north of Boston equipped to handle psychiatric
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: care for state wards. And she's been there since February
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of 2023. Her attorney, Reddington, visited her immediately following the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: mistrial declaration.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Did he say how she's doing?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: He was pretty candid with reporters, stating she is sad,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: she's scared, she's upset, and she's not in a real
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: good place. She remains in a state of legal and
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: psychiatric limbo.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Reddington and legal limbo, there is a bizarre
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: detail tucked into the related links of this CBS Boston
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: report that we really have to discuss.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, this part is fascinating.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: It feels almost surreal, but it highlights just how desperate
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: and complex this case has become. Kevin Reddington has publicly stated,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: He is asking President Trump to pardon Lindsay Clancy.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: It's an incredibly provocative maneuver, and it requires a deep
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: dive into jurisdictional law to understand why it's so strained and, frankly,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: why it's highly likely to be purely political theater.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: OK, let's go down that rabbit hole. Why is asking
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the president for a pardon in a Massachusetts murder trial strange?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Doesn't the president have absolute pardon power?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Well, the president has absolute pardon power, but only over
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: federal crimes. If you look at Article 2, Section 2
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: of the U.S. Constitution, it explicitly limits the president's power
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: to Offenses against the United States, meaning federal law.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So state crimes don't count.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Murdering your children in a home in Duxbury, Massachusetts,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: is a violation of state law. It is prosecuted by
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the local district attorney under the authority of the Commonwealth
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: of Massachusetts.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So the president can't just step in.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: The president of the United States has absolutely zero constitutional
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: authority to pardon a state-level crime. Only the governor of Massachusetts,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: working with the state's parole board or governor's council, can
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: issue a state pardon.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So if the president legally cannot do it, why would
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a defense attorney as experienced as Kevin Reddington publicly ask
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: for it? Does he not know the law?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: He absolutely knows the law. This is where legal strategy
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: merges with media manipulation. Reddington is playing a multidimensional game.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: By invoking a high-profile political figure like President Trump Reddington
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: is guaranteeing that the case remains in the national news cycle.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Because anything with a president's name attached gets clicks.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly. He is attempting to bypass the state-level bureaucracy and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: appeal directly to a specific segment of the national public
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: to reframe the narrative.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: So it's basically a PR stunt disguised as a legal filing.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Essentially, yes. It's a way of signaling to the local
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: DA and to the governor that the defense views this
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: not as a standard criminal act, but as a systemic
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: failure regarding maternal mental health. that requires extraordinary extrajudicial intervention.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It's a loud message.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: It's a desperate attempt to force a conversation about clemency
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: by using the loudest megaphone available, even if the megaphone
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: itself has no legal jurisdiction.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It just adds another layer of chaos to an already
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: exhausting ordeal. The only concrete date we have moving forward
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: is a status hearing scheduled for September 29th.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: And that might be the moment we learn if there
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: will be a retrial or if a plea is being negotiated.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: But until then, the families are just stuck in the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: waiting room of the justice system.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: If we pull all of these disparate threads together, the
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: psychiatric complexities of the tragedy, the deadlocked jury, the algorithms
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: rewarding baseless conspiracies, the legal threats of defamation, and the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: desperate political theater of pardons, what we are really looking
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: at is a profoundly broken mirror.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: The tragedy of the Clancy family became a mirror. Refleshing
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: the absolute darkest, most structurally flawed aspects of modern Internet culture.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: It is a culture where the fundamental presumption of innocence,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: which is the absolute bedrock of our physical legal system,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: is routinely disfarted because outrage generates higher ad revenue.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for you, the person
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: listening to this right now? It means we have to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: fundamentally reevaluate our relationship with the content we consume.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: We often talk about information being power. But in the
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: true prime ecosystem, information, especially unverified information, is a weapon.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: A very dangerous one.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Accountability doesn't just happen in a courtroom with a judge
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in a black robe. Accountability is required in how you scroll.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: It's required in what you choose to like, what you
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: choose to comment on, and what you choose to share.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: We have a moral obligation to not allow our boredom
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: to become the engine that destroys the lives of grieving people.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And stepping back even further, this entire ordeal forces us
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to confront a deeply uncomfortable philosophical reality about how we
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: view justice.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Say more about that. What do you mean?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Well, if the justice system ultimately concludes, whether through a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: second trial, a plea deal or medical consensus, that a
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: human being was genuinely, chemically too mentally ill to be
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: held criminally responsible for an unspeakable horror... How does society
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: recalibrate its demand for a villain?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Because we always want a bad guy.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: We are so conditioned by movies and books to expect
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: an evil mastermind. When the truth is just a catastrophic
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: biological failure and there is no mastermind to point a
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: finger at, how do we as a society cope with
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the terrifying reality that sometimes massive tragedies just happen and
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: there is simply no one left to blame?