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Strange Familiars Author Keshe Chow x Main Chapter · Main Chapter

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, my book butterflies, and welcome to this week's episode of the main chapter podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: My name's Brianna, and if you haven't already, please be sure to like and subscribe so we can continue growing and spreading our love of books with the entire world.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just got done interviewing Keisha Chao, who just came out with her new romantic book, Stranger Millions, Happy Belief.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's academic rivals to lovers, a story that takes place in a magical secondary school.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: When the linen hairs were who are at the top of their class have to join forces, when magic starts going around, and they need to figure out what's going on.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This interview does contain some spoilers.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the cliffhanger, plot points, get some teases for the next book.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely encourage reading the book before listening.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I devour this book.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I stayed up till 4 a.m.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: the other night reading it, and I'm still sleep deprived because of it, but it was totally worth it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about other fun main chapter topics, representation, bookish things.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and get started with the interview.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you saw on my threads, I think you even responded that I stayed up till 4 a.m.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: the other night reading your book.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a while since I've actually kind of gotten lost in a book and pulled an all-nighter like that.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I even didn't go to sleep till like five because my brain was just wired thinking about it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I really, really enjoyed it.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand that you are a veterinarian, and of course, this takes place in a magical veterinary school.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: When you were world-building, how did you choose what characters to include and also the limitations of magic since it doesn't fix every case?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess in terms of the characters, they actually uh a lot of them came fully formed.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was really interesting.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: This book really flowed.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, I mean, obviously on Threads, there's been like a lot of discussion lately about strange familiars and all of the diverse cast of characters that I included.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, some people would be like, well, it was like a strategic um decision to include like all of this diversity and have all these side characters and have the main character be um, you know, a British-born Chinese, uh, whereas I'm an Australian-born, well, not Australian-born Chinese, but I'm Australian Chinese.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess for me, it was very organic to have this class of characters.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like they pretty much just like strolled in almost fully formed.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was because like I live a life where I am surrounded by diverse friends, like a lot of my friends are very diverse.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it really wasn't wasn't really planned.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, the side characters that came in, uh, so you know, characters like Connell and Penn, they just sort of like came to me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and obviously Gwendolyn is very the main character, is very much like me.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: She's very much a self-insert, someone who's probably um, you know, better in a lot of ways, but otherwise is is very much me.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then Harrisford is um very much her opposite.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very natural to sort of create um a character that was her love interest that was opposite to her in so many ways, because that just builds in inherent conflict in terms of you know their motivations and goals and stakes, because obviously they're both working towards the same goal, but they have very differing reasons for why they both want that same thing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I thought the characters were so well developed.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have questions later on the line about Halloween and all of them.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: The cats and all the animals as well are kind of like side characters themselves.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Did you pull from your experience, like in your profession, when developing them?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I have cats myself.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have a cat and I um my well, Percy was actually based on um one of my cats who passed away a few years ago.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh he also came very naturally to me because I sort of imagined, you know, like what my cat would say to me or what my cat would have said to me if he could speak.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, he would probably roast me, but he would have loved me, but you know, he would he would definitely roast me because he was uh he was, you know, a very genteel uh um upper crust sort of cat, even though he came from not a very good background, he was astray, a rescue stray, but he would have uh definitely still felt very superior to me despite his origins.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I guess a lot of a lot of it just sort of flowed very naturally because the world was very uh built up in my head.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess to your previous question about um about the, I think you asked about the magic system and things like that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I guess when I was creating this world, I wanted it to feel grounded, I wanted it to feel lived in, like we could literally just if magic existed, this is what it would be like.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like we could just drop into this world and this is what it would be like.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was kind of like, well, if magic did exist, how like how would we function with it?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, um, that's where all of the, you know, the corporate um aspects come into it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I figured if we had a world with magic, there's like no way in today's day and age where someone would not have commodified that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would definitely have been like there would be regulations and there would be, you know, commercial, uh like you know, but basically it would have been commercialized.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also um in terms of the limitations of it, uh obviously there is financial limitations, so people have to buy magic and and you know it's not a free-for-all.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of, I sort of like created it a little bit like energy.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So for instance, um, you know, you can you can have electricity, you can buy it, you can pay for it like you would um, you know, like for like you know, you pay your bills, your electricity bills, but then if you buy like a solar panel or something like that, you can channel it from the environment, which is like having a familiar.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you buy a familiar and it's like having your own sort of source of energy.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I guess uh the reason I wanted to do that is because I think it creates a really interesting conflict for the characters when magic is just not a free-for-all.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just can't have it on tap whenever you want, wherever you want, and it just solves all of life's problems.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was a really interesting conundrum to have it be where, you know, there were limits to it because it was something that someone had put a price on.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love how you compared it to energy.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's such a good analogy and really what differentiates it from other fantasy romantic books.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we look at Harry Potter or Avatar or Fourth Wing, like people have access to magic, it's just like how they control it in the power, but no one's ever really commodified it, or at least the books I've seen commodified it before.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that really helped it stand out to me.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is first also your first adult romanticy, from what I understand.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: What was the biggest challenge going from YA to romanticy?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think with regards to YA to romanticy, I don't really think there's like defined um changes in terms of the writing style and things.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, romantic often is still very fast-paced.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's very um often is written in present tense.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, there's a lot of comparisons that are made between uh adult romanticy and young adult romanticy.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think the focus is a little bit different because I think young adult um is often very inward focused.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um in terms of young adult fiction, you know, teenagers are going through like a lot of firsts, like they're going through like their first loves, their first experiences of everything.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think often they're sort of trying to work out who they are.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: They sort of don't have like a fully formed sense of identity.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So everything is very introspective, like they're sort of trying to figure out their own identity and um and who they actually are.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas once I think we start to shift into adult, I think we're starting to sort of like open up to the world, like we sort of have a stronger identity, although not always fully formed.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think in your 20s, you're still sort of like trying to feel out like who you actually are, but also how you fit into that wider world because you're starting to sort of like go out into university, you're starting to think about your first jobs and you're starting to think about the world as a whole and how you actually sort of like move into those greater sort of like spaces rather than just being in sort of like your own little insular community.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's sort of like the bigger, the biggest change is that it was sort of like widening the world.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And with Gwen and Harris Ward, we see that they're kind of trying to figure out their lives post-grad.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: They have a sense of who they are, but they essentially have their a whole adulthood ahead of them.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the main trope, at least in this book, is academic rivals to lovers, which I absolutely loved.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Did you pull any inspiration from others' stories or characters when you were developing theirs?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think again, it sort of came very naturally.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So not really.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think um recently, like not too long before I started writing this book, I was reading the Emily Wilde series, and they were obviously academic rivals.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: They were older, and I also read um India Holton's work, um, and and she writes a lot of sort of academic rival characters as well.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just love it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just eat it up every time.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think because you know, they're obviously always like very smart people, but like kind of idiots when it comes to being in love.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love that sort of like that dichotomy between like they're so smart, but then like they're just so stupid when it comes to like their own feelings and emotions, which is like, you know, I mean, I think we can all relate to that to an extent.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna be so, so like smart in so many ways and so like ordered and so like so together in so many parts of our lives.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: But then when it comes to like our personal feelings and like emotions and relationships, we're just messy, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very, very relatable.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so I just love that.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it just builds in sort of like so much juicy conflict because um often they are working towards the same thing.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that with regards particularly to Gwen and Harrison, I think um, you know, their conflict and also what they have to lose um by getting together kind of like is completely at odds with one another because obviously for both of them, if they get together, and I think this is very common for academic rivals, if they do get together, then one of them basically they're also hurting the person that they care about.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like they almost fight their feelings for one another because it's like I don't want to beat you and become like, you know, get the top spot that you also want because I like I care about you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if I beat you, then I'm hurting you.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like it's easy just to like shut that side of my feelings off and pretend that I don't like you.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: The stakes were so high for both of them that you could see why they both wanted it for their own reasons.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was interesting, all the authors you mentioned, I'll have to check them out.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up reading a lot of like fanfiction, I was very much into Harry Potter like fanfiction.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if anyone's told you, but when I was reading at least the first couple of chapters, I was like, it feels like Germani vibes a little bit, even though I know it wasn't.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like my younger, like 12, 13-year-old self, who was like reading those stories on Wattpad, was absolutely loving kind of this build-up to them finally getting together.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: But really talking about Gwen, a big part of her character, she has a lot of these insecurities where she doesn't feel like she's desirable or worthy.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: What was your approach to kind of writing these traits in her personality?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I think, like I said, Gwendolyn is very much based on me.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think this is my post-personal book.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you read, if you read this book, you'll probably get a lot of insights into into my character.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I have a lot of insecurities.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I suffer from imposter syndrome, um, but at the same time, I have like extreme empathy, you know, very loyal, like, you know, very driven.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she's probably a better student than I ever was.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was not, I was not that good, I was not that studious at university.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she is also probably braver than I would be in a lot of situations.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like if I was faced with like life-threatening situations, I'd probably be like out of it, like running away screaming.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but other than that, I think there's a lot from her life that mirrors my own.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm also um from an immigrant family.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um my family was working class, like, you know, they sacrificed a lot for my education.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was a scholarship student that went to a private school when I was going through high school, so I always felt like that that feeling of being a bit out of place.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, I think like, you know, it was very natural to build those insecurities into her character.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, I hope it's relatable.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people probably feel as though, um, you know, like, oh, you know, get all get it together.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I'm like now a full-grown adult and I still suffer from insecurities all the time every day.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, I hope some people will feel seen by this book because I I feel like a lot of us struggle with that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I also struggle with imposter syndrome and some of the insecurities she mentioned.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So she definitely resonated with me.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about kind of her experience of being a British-born Chinese, and I love talking about representation and diversity here on main chapter, being a woman of color, finding books that showcase minorities, whether it's black women, brown women, Asian women.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is so, so hard.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does it mean to you representing Asian love stories in the romance genre?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so important because probably like you, you probably also grew up reading books that just had people that did not look like you.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I grew up reading books and never saw anyone like me, not as a main character, like um same with movies, TV shows.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes you would see yourself like people like you as a side character.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that'd be very tokenized, you know, for Asians specifically, it was always like the nerdy best friend, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of like grow up feeling like you're a bit lesser than, you know, you're never the one that is chosen.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and similarly for black girls, you know, you probably grow up feeling like you're never the one that is chosen, you're never the one that's fought over, you're never the one that is like the you know, the object of the love triangle where there's two guys like fighting over you.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be so difficult growing up when you are grappling with these feelings of insecurity and trying to find yourself and you're trying to build your self-esteem.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for this new generation we're coming into where there's a lot more fiction coming out now, um, romance and fantasy and romanticy, where there are women of color being the main character and being the one that are chosen by these hot men or hot women and you know, hot non-binary characters, I think is just so healing, you know, so healing for another generation of um girls of color that are growing up and seeing themselves represented in the pages.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is just so beautiful.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it is so important.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've made it a goal for myself to like specifically find more diverse and representative stories this year.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so happy that I fell upon your book.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely one of my favorites so so far.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked, of course, we've talked a lot about Gwen, but of course, I want to talk about Harris Ward.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was really intrigued by this dynamic with his father where he's kind of grieving this relationship that never existed and is never going to happen.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very much a contrast to Gwen's relationship with her parents where they are present and she has like she communicates with them.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: What was it like kind of doing these different dynamics and specifically in regards to his character as well?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I think um, you know, on a very superficial level, I think it's kind of like the showing that having all that money and privilege doesn't necessarily bring new fulfillment.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think, you know, it on the surface it can be like, well, he has everything, you know, he has all this, all this money and he's sort of had to cruise through life.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: But really, like, you know, the arrogance and all of this sort of like, you know, the image that he projects is really just like this protective shell because he's lost so much in terms of um his mother, and he's you know, lost this, you know, hypothetical relationship with his father that he always craved and never got.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, he sort of hardened himself to um to like, you know, forming genuine relationships with anyone.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's so hard for him to open up to Gwendolyn when he starts to develop feelings for her.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that was sort of like the core of it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I mean, I think like we all kind of struggle a little bit with um, you know, with like parental issues and with father issues.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of that is sort of like exploring that a little bit.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I would love to have um, you know, like the type of relationship that Gremolyn has.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, to a certain extent, I do.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's always been like rocky stages, and and so it was like sort of, you know, I explored my own life in both of those characters.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, this is an extremely personal book.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I thought that I I would I don't know if it's gonna come up anymore in book two, but I really did enjoy seeing those parent interactions.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if um his father's gonna come out of that coma at all, or if he's if they're just gonna, he's gonna stay there.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but either way, it's very, very important with their characters.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And another very important part is also this wealth gap that we've talked about.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of themes of kind of like the shortfalls of capitalism in terms of the exploitation of labor and lack of equity in creating a book that was about a magical veterinary school, what inspired also you to include these kind of like economic themes?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think like um, you know, it would have been really like easy just to make it like very crazy and just have like magical cats and dragons.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um to be honest, it's going back to our very beginning of the conversation where I sort of was thinking, well, if magic did exist in our world, what would it look like?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, it would really like we live in such a capitalist world, like it would it would look like this, basically.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would basically be um that like there would be a wealth gap and there would be people who have more access to magic and find life basically easier, and people who struggled to get it and had to ration it and had to sort of like scrimp and save to be able to afford it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it would also be the case where, like, because it was so useful, we would have become so reliant on it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we would have sort of like moved into a situation where everyday life was just so embedded because that is like how we live now.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we are so dependent on our phones, we're so dependent on our energy sources.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even recently, with some of the interruptions to um oil, uh, you know, it has like it just the ripple effects, you know, like um I think recently, uh a few years ago, we had um, you know, some of our supermarket workers strike in Australia, a grocery store workers strike, and the interruptions to our food supply just like really sort of um, you know, highlighted how vulnerable our our supply chains are because just this like one little part of this like big chain um just made everything fall down and everything was like out of stock, like there were shortages everywhere.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think like we live in such a complex world where everything is just so reliant on everything else, and it's just like this house of cards, and um, and but at the same time, it's also so reliant on money, and um, and so I think I wanted to build that in because I wanted this world to feel really real, like I wanted it to like leap off the page and and where you like you felt like you could live in this world basically.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I felt like it was kind of like definitely a magical mirror to our modern world because as you mentioned, just being like shortages and strikes, even here in the US, if like we've had lots of strikes with teachers and grocery store workers and also TSA agents, and every time something happens, there's absolute chaos, especially for people and the working and middle class.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it always seems that those who have more money, they're not as affected as much.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really interesting to see that kind of in a magical context as well, which kind of makes me want to bring up the MLO.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's this classic case of the media turning around this organization to make it seem bad when it actually is fighting for a greater cause, and it kind of leads me to a spoiler with the ending that Harrisbord's mom is the leader of the MLO.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I know by the time this interview comes out, the book is gonna be very fresh, just two pages out uh two days out.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: But is there anything you can tease about kind of what we'll see with the MLO in the future?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I guess I'm just trying to think because like I'm actually very, very immersed in like writing my next book.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to remember what I wrote in the sequel because that like it's written in first draft, but like I I have to go back and edit it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean, like uh so Harrison's mother mother does come back into the story.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously they do work together to try to um sort of like figure out how to um to like bring down Mage Corp because they're the they're the villains of the story.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in the end, um, you know, what we thought was just sort of like simple energy surges actually turns out to be something way bigger and way more sinister.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they're sort of like working against the clock of something that is um kind of really, really bad and as a direct result of like corporate greed, basically.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like what I can tease about.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll I'll take that, I'll take that tease.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of that ending, I was not seeing it coming at all.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: That pudding was literally Harris Ford's mom.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It maybe it went over my head a little bit, but are we gonna go more into how that transformation actually happened in book two of her being a human and coming back as a lizard?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was there like some type of magical smell?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, I'm still like editing that book.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I I can probably like expand on it depending on what word count my publisher allows me to have.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's always like the big limitation is that you know, like you get to a certain word count and they're like, okay, like stop, like stop.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's like paper costs involved in printing now.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have to stop write, you have to stop writing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean she does she does like come back into the book.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's probably like not like hugely significant because obviously um at the end of book one, Harrisford is ex feeling extremely betrayed by the whole thing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: He feels like betrayed by everyone in his life, um, except for Gwendolyn.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so he's just basically like you're you're out of my life, like you're you're done, you're dead to me.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, but she does come back into it and plays a role.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, I mean, I guess like in this world, like magic, there is power to it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as like there's enough, like um, you know, the MLO obviously like has their own channels and access to things um because Danny is part of the MLO, he has access to like a lot of like black market spells and things like that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they have their ways, they have their ways, they have their ways that maybe aren't quite so like you know, legitimate.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Black market magic, of course.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, I was definitely of all the things I was suspecting, I was not suspecting putting to be to be involved at all.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now Gwendolyn's taking care of her, so that should be interesting.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think um, yeah, if you go back and reread it, like I was careful to make her relationship to Harrison feel a little bit maternal, like she is very protective over him and and she's very caring.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, like I think if you were if you were a mother that had to go into hiding and um and then you had to do something, like I think that would be something you would do as a mum.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mum, and so I would be like, I would 100% live my life as a lizard if that was the only way I could be close to my my kids, like you know, you know, like when I was reading, I was like, oh, she is very like maternal and protective.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just never thought like, oh, that's his mom, but then it all clicked when uh when it was explained more of her personality.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we also see at the end of the book that basically Gwen is now going to try to infiltrate Mage Corp with her post-grad job.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: She's given up the ministry job and she does it in the name of love.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some comfort that the private sector of money is still going to support her parents.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think there's any part of her that grieves this post-grad life that she initially imagined for herself?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is, and I think Gwendolyn, um, she's got a lot of complexity because I think in the first book, she does mention, you know, if money wasn't an issue, this neither of these things would be what I would do.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like she obviously, like the medicine for her is like the big love.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Well, I would actually just go and like do an internship and specialize in like internal medicine in a veterinary center and I've worked clinically.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of what her passion is, but she needed like a better paying job to um, you know, to survive.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I think with regards to her uh taking the mage corp job, I think obviously she does it to rescue Harrisford, um, but also she does it because she knows that there are bigger stakes at play.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like she knows that there's more going on than just like these little mini surges.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: She knows that there's conspiracy happening, and she knows that, you know, in in order for like the greater world to be okay, like someone has to do something because there's just so much cover-ups going on at a higher level.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, she's just there's many reasons why she does it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think, you know, if she had her way in an ideal world, she'd probably just go and like potter around and and do her little, like, you know, like nice little clinical veterinary work.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, unfortunately for her, she has she has other things going on that that motivate her.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's taking on a lot of responsibility, and I admire that for her because I feel like if it was me, I'd very much mind my business.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I would ever get to the point that she was at.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's what makes her such a fun character.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a few minutes left, and I wanted to do kind of some more fun, lighthearted questions.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Percy calls Gwen the hairless one a lot.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: He even goes to call like Halloween's the pretty one.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: He really trolls her all the time.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was wondering, could you break down this hairless one nickname a little bit more?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just because she only has hair on her head?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like he never fully explains like why, why he's kind of given her just this this random this random name.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's basically because she only has hair on her head and he is covered in hair all over his body.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for Percy, um, I mean he's a cat, you know.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think for him, like humans are pretty much like all one and the same.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are better than others.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, he knows Gwendolyn is kinder, she feeds him better, um, she lets him lie on her pillow, um, whereas like his ex-owners are assholes and he knows that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but pretty much like humans to him are humans.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and like, you know, cats are up here.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh obviously this is a podcast, so people can't see my actions, but cats are like way higher, more superior, and humans are like the bottom feeders that are just there to be his staff members, basically.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, I guess he just comes up with with nicknames for them because he's like, I don't really remember your name, your human given name.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for him, hairless one.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think like one of the early scenes is like watching her try to do her hair, and he's like, You have so little hair, why do you even bother?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you using that brush?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just use your tongue, like it's just so hairless one sort of like just came about, like again, organically, because of all those reasons.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so funny because it's like all the humans have similar amounts of hair, but she's just the hairless one.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I had um a dog, she passed away a few years ago, and I felt like she was very cat-coded.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like she acted more like a cat than a dog, and she would probably come up with some mean nickname for me, too.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate a Percy in that regard.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you also there's also some mentions of other franchises like Twilight and also Pride and Prejudice.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very hot take of if you like the 2005 version or the BBC version.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of argue about it in the book, but I was wondering, you personally, are you a 2005 girly or are you a BBC girly?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I should admit this.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm gonna be like um, you know, nailed to the stake.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I really love the 2005 version.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's like not, I know it's not as like like historically accurate um or accurate to the book.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the book, I've read it so many times.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just love it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think Kira Knightley and is it Matthew McFadden?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are the two actors, they just nailed that tension and the the like the hate to love like so well.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's so juicy.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just I love it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the cinematography is so beautiful, and I do love the BBC version.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have watched it, um, but it's just got a very different vibe.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I love I love adaptations that just really nailed the like the really heart and soul of um of a book and how I felt when I read it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen the BBC version yet.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: My college roommate was obsessed with the 2005 version.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it for the first time with her, and I could barely talk the entire movie because she'd be like, don't talk, this is a really important part.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I feel like I'm like kind of like grandfathered into like the 2005 version, but I should give the the BBC version of a chance.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: The BBC version is much longer, so it's a bigger commitment.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, the 2005 version, the amount of times I have like watched that rain scene and the like the initial confession is just it's criminal.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just sometimes I just put that on.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes when I'm writing a scene where like they're doing that sort of like little like bickering and like the you know, the hate, hateful love confession.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'll just put that on to set my mood.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the amount of times I see on TikTok, people like mention like the hand flex, how it's been trying to be like mimicked in other modern works, but it just it never comes across.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: It is just it is iconic.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the hand flex is definitely um one of my favorite books to perfect.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, Strange Familiars, it's gotten so much attention on social media.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I saw that it was kind of like a trending topic on Threads the other day, at least in my timeline, and it's all over my Instagram stories.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to you for a book so personal to be getting this much attention before it's even officially out?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, it is scary, to be honest, because there is a lot of a lot of personal things in there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me also, um like I feel as though if anyone like criticizes, say like Percy, I'm like, no, you can't criticize Percy because like again, like he's inspired by like my own cat.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, if anyone has anything negative to say about him, then like you know, you're you're dead to me.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like banned from reading my books.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, obviously, like the attention that I got on threads the other day wasn't for a very nice reason, it was for an awful reason.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the the um support from the community was really beautiful and overwhelming as well.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I sort of didn't um really even realize I was actually so what happened that day was I I saw um the review and and just sort of like vented to a couple of friends about it and then um went off to I had like this chronic pain flare.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I went off to my Cairo appointment, and then when I got out of my appointment, um one of my friends texted me and said, like, oh check threads because you know you're a trending topic.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, oh my gosh, what?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I went on and I was like, oh whoa, okay, like that that really escalated extremely fast.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so I didn't sort of like really expect it to get that much attention, and um, I'm not really used to that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, that was pretty intense.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it was really lovely to have all the support.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm a bit scared about like I think I've I've made a video on this as well because like um as part of the research for this, I did speak to some of my colleagues because I'm a cat vet, so I I sort of had to speak to some of my um horse vet colleagues and some of my exotics vet colleagues to um accurately write some of the you know the exotic creatures in this book.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um and yeah, and then they were like, oh, I'm so excited to read the book, and I was like, oh gosh, like you know, my colleagues reading it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: It sort of occurred to me suddenly that like I had all these veterinary colleagues that said they wanted to read.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I the thought of like veterinary colleagues reading my smuddy scenes is pretty, pretty scary.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um at the end of the day, we're all we're all just girls or romance enthusiasts, so I'm sure they will appreciate the scenes.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even realize that Strange Familiars was uh trending because of a negative reason.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was just seeing all the love and support for the book.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure that there will be lots of positive reactions when it is out um next week.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: But my last question for you is did you have any favorite scenes when you were writing between Gwendolyn and Harrisburg?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think the scene of um when she's in her flat in Manchester, that was probably my favorite scene between them to write.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just because it's really the first time that they start to truly open up to each other.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was so much before that where they're sort of dancing around their feelings and like kind of putting up walls and barriers and and just like being so suppressed and repressed.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I sort of got to that scene and I'm like, oh, finally I can start to like have them open up and be vulnerable and just start to have some confessions and and then obviously they have some physical stuff happen as well.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is just a relief.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a relief for me.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's really a relief for the reader as well.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally they're like, oh, okay, I'm gonna actually start to, you know, there's a bit of payoff after all that tension.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that was one of my favorite scenes, and I think it it also is just really um, you know, it's really emotional as well.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a really emotional scene to write.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I that was one of my favorite scenes, and I even saw that it's like kind of used in the art to promote your book.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad that it was really like it's I think it's gonna get a lot of attention and it's gonna be a lot of people's favorite part.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of lied.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I actually do have one more question.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know you teased a little bit that what we can expect for the book too, but do you have a timeline for book two coming out that people can look forward to?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so according to my publisher, um, they're planning to release it in a yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um that is hopefully on track.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh I think like currently it's cited for May 2027.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, those dates can always change depending on their scheduling um or you know things that happen with regards to the editing process.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, yeah, a year from now, hopefully we get back to see where they end up.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fingers crossed, I am very, very excited.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to follow Keisha channel on all her socials and keep an eye out for the second book in the Strange Familiars Universe.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And read Strange Familiars if you haven't already.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: You should have read it if you're watching this interview, but either way, thank you for being here.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm doing something a little different.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: I bring it on my two page and Katie.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: RKA3Ds are all over the place.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Katie is a hardcore mafia romance, a dark romance reader.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I refuse to touch it somewhere in the middle.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have a dark romance versus non-dark romance reader discussion.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be super fun, super entertaining.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you come back for it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great week, my book butterflies.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time.