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Harborhawk Retrospective Episode #1 · Harborhawk Retrospective

0:14
Speaker 1: Hey there everyone, and welcome into the first ever episode
0:18
Speaker 1: of the Harborhawk Retrospective. I'm your host Daniel Bottolino, and
0:22
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to get this thing going. Over the course
0:25
Speaker 1: of the pod, we're going to take a look at
0:27
Speaker 1: the historic Cape Cod Baseball League. We'll look at the history,
0:30
Speaker 1: the current state, and what lies ahead for what really
0:33
Speaker 1: is an American institution. And we'll be doing it through
0:37
Speaker 1: the lens of one team in the league, being the
0:40
Speaker 1: Hyannis Harbor Hawks. And look, we'll focus on that for
0:44
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. Not only because I've worked for
0:47
Speaker 1: the team for the past three years, and I grew
0:49
Speaker 1: up 10 minutes away from McKeon Park, the home of
0:52
Speaker 1: the Hawks. I have a very personal connection to the organization,
0:56
Speaker 1: but also because it allows us to look at the league.
0:59
Speaker 2: In my opinion, through a more intimate lens.
1:02
Speaker 1: It'll allow us to get into specifics rather than just
1:04
Speaker 1: tackling broad topics. And our conversations will be more in-depth
1:10
Speaker 1: and we will be able to have a more open
1:12
Speaker 1: and honest dialogue with our guests. Speaking of guests, each episode,
1:18
Speaker 1: I will be joined by one current or former member
1:20
Speaker 1: of the organization. It might be a player, it might
1:23
Speaker 1: be a coach, it might be a front office person, whatever.
1:26
Speaker 2: Anything, one that is.
1:27
Speaker 1: Tied to the Harbor Hawks And we will be discussing
1:31
Speaker 1: anything and everything related to the league. And when I
1:34
Speaker 1: was thinking about who I wanted for this first episode,
1:36
Speaker 1: it wasn't honestly much of a thought. I mean, I
1:39
Speaker 1: figured there was no better person to have on than
1:42
Speaker 1: the current Harbor Hawks general manager, Nick Johnson. I've known
1:45
Speaker 1: Nick for the past three summers now, and I've developed
1:48
Speaker 1: a very solid relationship with Nick. He's a guy who
1:53
Speaker 1: kind of has had two different stints with the organization,
1:56
Speaker 1: and he'll talk about it some more. But You know,
1:58
Speaker 1: he joined the team in 2010 as a summer intern
2:02
Speaker 1: after growing up visiting the Cape on vacation. And he
2:08
Speaker 1: worked there while attending Syracuse University as a summer intern.
2:11
Speaker 1: And he worked in a variety of roles for the
2:13
Speaker 1: next four years, even after he graduated. Before going on
2:19
Speaker 1: and living his life for the next eight years, he
2:21
Speaker 1: watched Cayennes from a distance. He worked full-time in television
2:24
Speaker 1: production and development. And he always kind of kept an
2:27
Speaker 1: eye on the Cape. He Um, you'll hear him say
2:30
Speaker 1: a little funny anecdote that he had about, you know,
2:33
Speaker 1: taking over the team.
2:34
Speaker 2: When he's much older.
2:36
Speaker 1: Um, but he watched from a distance, but his love
2:40
Speaker 1: for the Hawks, I mean, he'll tell you, it never
2:42
Speaker 1: went away. And after watching from afar, he was given
2:46
Speaker 1: the opportunity to return to the Cape as a general
2:50
Speaker 1: manager of the Highlands Harbor Hawks in 2022. And by
2:55
Speaker 1: the way, he wasn't taking on some really good team either.
2:58
Speaker 1: He took on the team in 2022 after 2019, the
3:03
Speaker 1: team's legendary manager who led them to their most recent
3:06
Speaker 1: championship appearance in 2015 and spent 11 summers with the team,
3:10
Speaker 1: Chad Gassman, stepped aside as manager.
3:13
Speaker 2: He had known Chad. He had worked with Chad.
3:15
Speaker 1: And on top of that, the team was coming off
3:18
Speaker 1: one of the worst two season stretches in not only
3:21
Speaker 1: team history, but league history. Over the course of 2019
3:25
Speaker 1: and 2021, 2020 season was cancelled because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
3:31
Speaker 1: The team had just 17 wins compared to 60 losses.
3:36
Speaker 1: That's really bad. To put that in perspective, the next
3:40
Speaker 1: closest team in wins over that two-year stretch had 38,
3:44
Speaker 1: over double the amount. It's really tough to be consistently
3:49
Speaker 1: good or bad in this league. He'll tell you, There's
3:52
Speaker 1: basically a new roster every year. So for a team
3:54
Speaker 1: to be that bad two years in a row, it's
3:58
Speaker 1: honestly impressive. Johnson came in and he basically, with the
4:03
Speaker 1: snap of his fingers, changed everything. They improved by 14
4:08
Speaker 1: wins in 2022. They got a first-round victory in the playoffs.
4:13
Speaker 1: And he has a star-studded roster that has already produced
4:15
Speaker 1: four major leaders just four years later. That doesn't happen
4:19
Speaker 1: in baseball. The next season, 25 wins, another playoff series victory,
4:22
Speaker 1: as well as two more major leaguers, already just three
4:26
Speaker 1: years later, and several more that will be coming in
4:30
Speaker 1: the coming years. Top 100 prospects, Mike Sirota and Jamie Arnold,
4:33
Speaker 1: just to name a few. In 2024, my first season
4:36
Speaker 1: with the team, he brought home their first division title
4:39
Speaker 1: since 2015, and he did it again this past season
4:43
Speaker 1: in 2026, a season in which Johnson saw the team
4:46
Speaker 1: win their 100th game with him as general manager. He
4:49
Speaker 1: has done it in unique ways that he'll discuss. He's
4:54
Speaker 1: done it from a unique perspective, and he's done it
4:59
Speaker 1: in a way that a lot of other teams have
5:02
Speaker 1: learned from. In our conversation, we dove into a multitude
5:05
Speaker 1: of topics, both his career as general manager of the
5:08
Speaker 1: Highlands Harbor Hawks and the league in general. We'll hear
5:11
Speaker 1: his perspective on the current state of the league, what
5:13
Speaker 1: the future holds, And how he's been one of the
5:15
Speaker 1: most really progressive and aggressive leaders of the new analytical
5:18
Speaker 1: movement in baseball. And adopting that to a league that
5:23
Speaker 1: really prides itself on old school baseball. So, without further ado,
5:29
Speaker 1: let's hear it from the man himself. Here's Nick Johnson,
5:31
Speaker 1: right here on the Harbor Rock Retrospective. Welcome back into
5:38
Speaker 1: the Harborhawk Retrospective. I'm joined now by Harborhawk General Manager
5:42
Speaker 1: Nick Johnson. Nick, first of all, thanks for joining me today.
5:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, man. Thanks for having me.
5:48
Speaker 1: In 2022, when you did return, how did that come about?
5:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a cool story.
5:54
Speaker 4: So, like you said, I interned here with Hyannis from 2010.
5:59
Speaker 4: I would say 2014, like kind of quasi-year, I filmed
6:04
Speaker 4: a documentary with the team, but For those seasons I
6:07
Speaker 4: was around the team, I'm from Los Angeles. My mom's
6:11
Speaker 4: from Springfield, Mass. So I would come out here when
6:13
Speaker 4: I was younger. We have a small lake house in
6:16
Speaker 4: Western Mass. And we would take a week-long vacation, of course,
6:18
Speaker 4: one of the nights, two of the nights, have to
6:19
Speaker 4: go to a Cape League game. I didn't really have
6:21
Speaker 4: a hyenas connection per se. But when I was– it
6:25
Speaker 4: was our senior year in college. My best friend and
6:27
Speaker 4: I were like, man, if we could squeeze one more
6:29
Speaker 4: year before going into the workforce, one more summer, that
6:31
Speaker 4: would be awesome.
6:33
Speaker 3: I want to go to Cape.
6:34
Speaker 2: I want to caddy.
6:35
Speaker 3: And my buddy was like, that sounds great. And so
6:37
Speaker 3: he went and talked to his parents. They're like, dude, no.
6:39
Speaker 4: You have to do something that benefits your major. And
6:42
Speaker 4: he had gone to Syracuse. He was an English major.
6:44
Speaker 4: He wanted to go into sports writing. So he started
6:47
Speaker 4: applying to teams in May, which, as you know, is
6:50
Speaker 4: usually way too late. But Hyannis had an opening. And
6:54
Speaker 4: he became their writer, which parlayed the next year in
6:59
Speaker 4: him broadcasting. And when he got the broadcasting job, he
7:04
Speaker 4: had a partner. Um, and that kid got a professional
7:08
Speaker 4: job a couple of weeks before the season. Uh, and
7:10
Speaker 4: that's when he came to me and he said, dude,
7:12
Speaker 4: I would love to do this with you. Um, I
7:14
Speaker 4: was like, man, I have no broadcasting experience. He's like, well, dude,
7:16
Speaker 4: we know baseball. Well, we, we know each other. Well,
7:19
Speaker 4: you can do color. So it kind of started this, uh, this,
7:23
Speaker 4: this three-year job where I worked as a broadcaster with,
7:28
Speaker 4: with zero intention of going into that industry, but I
7:30
Speaker 4: liked it. Um, The league during that time, my big
7:34
Speaker 4: interest was kind of understanding how you built a team.
7:38
Speaker 3: I didn't know a lot about that.
7:39
Speaker 4: I think when you come as a fan, you just
7:41
Speaker 4: see the players and the kids have gone to the
7:43
Speaker 4: big leagues and you're enjoying it. But I kind of
7:45
Speaker 4: got curious as to why there were like perennial winners
7:48
Speaker 4: and losers in a league where you have almost 100
7:50
Speaker 4: percent turnover year to year. So there really shouldn't be,
7:54
Speaker 4: you know, hey, this team is funded really well or
7:57
Speaker 4: this team has more scholarships. Like you're all on a
7:59
Speaker 4: pretty even playing field. So I went to the coach
8:02
Speaker 4: and I asked him and it's a guy named Chad Gassman.
8:05
Speaker 4: And Chad basically was like, if you have any interest
8:08
Speaker 4: in that, you know, kind of helping me find players
8:11
Speaker 4: and whatever.
8:11
Speaker 3: Yeah.
8:13
Speaker 4: I'll let you send some emails out or I'll let
8:14
Speaker 4: you build a spreadsheet with some names. And, you know,
8:18
Speaker 4: we started from there. And the first year we did
8:21
Speaker 4: that was 2013. And we went on and we won
8:24
Speaker 4: the division and kind of segued in some new schools,
8:29
Speaker 4: the team that I worked with before. And it was,
8:31
Speaker 4: honestly addicting, um, kind of getting, when you got that
8:35
Speaker 4: email back from like an Arkansas, I can remember distinctly,
8:38
Speaker 4: we had a kid named Brian Anderson who ended up
8:40
Speaker 4: going on to be a big leaguer.
8:41
Speaker 3: Um, that year.
8:42
Speaker 4: Um, and two other college teammates are really good, but
8:45
Speaker 4: you know, guys that teams that hadn't really reached out
8:47
Speaker 4: to us or answer the call. And it, I don't know,
8:50
Speaker 4: like as a sports fan and also, I think there's
8:52
Speaker 4: an element of sales to it kind of pitching why
8:54
Speaker 4: you should come here, you know, and, and, and kind
8:56
Speaker 4: of everything connecting was, um, I don't know, I got
8:58
Speaker 4: a rush from it. I really understood why people really
9:00
Speaker 4: like doing this. Unfortunately, I had nothing.
9:04
Speaker 2: In my U.S.
9:05
Speaker 4: History major to kind of go into a sports field.
9:10
Speaker 3: If you will.
9:12
Speaker 4: So 2014, like you said, 2010 I graduate, but I
9:15
Speaker 4: would come back during the summer because I would work
9:17
Speaker 4: remotely in television. And like I said, did documentary as
9:21
Speaker 4: it pertained to like what I was doing at home.
9:24
Speaker 3: Never really thought I'd work with the league again.
9:25
Speaker 4: My buddy and I always joked like, Hey, maybe if
9:27
Speaker 4: we really do well, we'll buy that house on Cape together.
9:29
Speaker 4: And we're like in our sixties, you know, run this thing. Um,
9:33
Speaker 4: kind of flash forward to 2021. I moved to Cape, uh,
9:38
Speaker 4: with my then wife and we're like, you know, I
9:41
Speaker 4: was like, Hey, I want to bring into the field
9:43
Speaker 4: where I, I, you know, interned and all that. And
9:45
Speaker 4: I went there and there are a couple of board
9:47
Speaker 4: members left, not a lot of people. Um, it was
9:50
Speaker 4: kind of like one of those things serendipitous, if you will,
9:52
Speaker 4: like right place, right time. I was told that there
9:58
Speaker 4: was some discussion. Well, they needed new board members. Asked
10:01
Speaker 4: if I was around, kind of want to join the board.
10:03
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, maybe. I was like, I kind of
10:06
Speaker 3: would want a role, you know, just be on the board. Like,
10:09
Speaker 3: I don't know.
10:09
Speaker 4: It didn't really seem that appealing to me at the time. But,
10:12
Speaker 4: you know, I saw some people, met some people. They
10:15
Speaker 4: were coming off an eight-win season, I think. It was
10:18
Speaker 4: a the first year after COVID and the COVID year
10:23
Speaker 4: was canceled. The year prior to that was eight or
10:24
Speaker 4: nine wins as well, which is fascinatingly horrible to do
10:29
Speaker 4: that back-to-back years.
10:30
Speaker 3: But in October, I got a call. Dan Johnson called.
10:35
Speaker 4: Me who was going to be the GM that year,
10:40
Speaker 4: or he had called me and said, Hey, we just
10:42
Speaker 4: fired the general manager here. I'm going to step into
10:44
Speaker 4: the general manager role for a year. And then likely
10:47
Speaker 4: become president of the team after a year of mentorship.
10:51
Speaker 4: I would love if you became the assistant GM and
10:53
Speaker 4: you could learn from me in that year. And then
10:55
Speaker 4: next year we'll become president and GM if the board
10:58
Speaker 4: elects us.
10:59
Speaker 3: So I was like, Oh, that, that, that is something
11:01
Speaker 3: I'm interested in.
11:02
Speaker 4: So like a week goes by and the president at
11:06
Speaker 4: the time, Brad Pfeiffer was diagnosed with a brain tumor,
11:09
Speaker 4: a brain cancer and had to step away, unfortunately. And
11:13
Speaker 4: so Dan said, kind of got thrust into the interim
11:16
Speaker 4: president role. And I got thrust into the interim GM
11:20
Speaker 4: role literally within a week. Hadn't been around the organization
11:23
Speaker 4: in a decade, really, or eight or nine years, whatever
11:26
Speaker 4: it was.
11:27
Speaker 3: And within like a week, I'm told I'm GM. Now
11:31
Speaker 3: we have a coach vacancy.
11:32
Speaker 4: And because we have no coach and I'm talking to
11:35
Speaker 4: the board, I said, would you guys have an issue
11:38
Speaker 4: if I built the roster? My basic thinking was if
11:42
Speaker 4: these coaches are going to be coming and going, we
11:44
Speaker 4: might have some semblance of continuity if I stayed. I
11:47
Speaker 4: also felt that really in my research when working with
11:50
Speaker 4: Chad was the one thing that I thought differentiated winners
11:53
Speaker 4: from losers was just giving a damn, to be honest,
11:56
Speaker 4: like putting in the time to do the research network
11:59
Speaker 4: with coaches. And if you have your GM doing that,
12:02
Speaker 4: and then from you, you have assistant GMs, you have
12:04
Speaker 4: interns under you, you can really build a big net
12:06
Speaker 4: and like really focus on roster construction. So it's like
12:11
Speaker 4: a long winded way of how I got there. Um,
12:13
Speaker 4: and that first year, um, I knew nobody, there was
12:16
Speaker 4: not one school I could reach out to and be like, Hey,
12:18
Speaker 4: remember me? Like it was from scratch. So basically, uh,
12:22
Speaker 4: there was a guy named Zach chase who I had
12:24
Speaker 4: worked with here. He doesn't broadcasting. He became the assistant
12:27
Speaker 4: GM with me. And we looked at basically, all right,
12:31
Speaker 4: let's do the last 20 years of Cape results, right?
12:33
Speaker 3: Who was winning? Who was losing?
12:34
Speaker 2: Okay. That's easy enough.
12:35
Speaker 3: We got the records, call the records.
12:36
Speaker 4: You see like to it basically at 20 years out,
12:39
Speaker 4: 10 years out, five years out and now consistent winner.
12:42
Speaker 4: Pretty much Mike Roberts, their head coach, former UNC head coach,
12:46
Speaker 4: was at the helm there, which was actually helpful for
12:48
Speaker 4: us because we could see, is there something he's doing
12:51
Speaker 4: that is very.
12:53
Speaker 3: Distinguishable year after year? And there was.
12:55
Speaker 4: He got kids who ran. It didn't strike out very often.
12:59
Speaker 4: That was kind of the recipe. And so knowing we
13:02
Speaker 4: weren't going to get really the blue chip caliber players
13:04
Speaker 4: because we didn't have relationships with either agents.
13:06
Speaker 3: At that time, I didn't even know the agents were
13:08
Speaker 3: going to be a part of all this.
13:09
Speaker 4: And then baseball teams, the collegiate teams, We went super
13:13
Speaker 4: hard after mid-major kids. And that was kind of the recipe. Like,
13:16
Speaker 4: find kids who didn't strike out. Find kids who ran
13:18
Speaker 4: and played defense well. And pray that it works out.
13:22
Speaker 4: Because I had not watched the college game in so long.
13:25
Speaker 4: And like I said, we had gone from a 9-win team,
13:27
Speaker 4: an 8-win team. And then we won. We were, I think,
13:31
Speaker 4: like a game or two away from winning the division.
13:32
Speaker 4: I know with like three or four out, we had
13:34
Speaker 4: the lead and choked. But just as fate kind of
13:38
Speaker 4: would have it, we would play to it. in that
13:41
Speaker 4: first round of the playoffs and eliminate them in a
13:43
Speaker 4: pretty awesome series. And for the franchise and for the
13:47
Speaker 4: fan base, that was a big deal because that's a
13:48
Speaker 4: local rivalry we had in one at Lowell park. And
13:52
Speaker 4: I think they said five years, which is crazy. So
13:55
Speaker 4: it was great because the methodology had worked. We, you know,
13:58
Speaker 4: we were able to tinker with it as the years
13:59
Speaker 4: go on and just completed my fifth year. We've won
14:03
Speaker 4: the division twice in those five years. I think our
14:06
Speaker 4: only we're third in the league and wins and, outside
14:10
Speaker 4: of um yd and born and it's like within two
14:13
Speaker 4: or three so um it's it's been it's been a
14:16
Speaker 4: really fun experience and there's things we've done well there's
14:19
Speaker 4: things we haven't done well but i think it's kind
14:21
Speaker 4: of an interesting case study on that you don't need
14:23
Speaker 4: to be like a degree in baseball if you will
14:26
Speaker 4: or play at the mlb level or collegiately to make
14:29
Speaker 4: a winner here.
14:30
Speaker 1: For sure i think it also you know this is
14:32
Speaker 1: another point i'm gonna get into but you know with these.
14:36
Speaker 2: Look the league you know, the big names, right?
14:38
Speaker 1: These big schools aren't sending guys, you know, here as
14:42
Speaker 1: often to the Cape as often now. And when they do,
14:45
Speaker 1: you know, they're guys that are staying for a couple
14:47
Speaker 1: of weeks and Team USA is getting them. I mean,
14:48
Speaker 1: the 25 team, you know, the big names from that team,
14:52
Speaker 1: you know, Bailey at FSU, you know, Lackey at Georgia Tech,
14:55
Speaker 1: Rembrandt at Auburn, like those guys all left after, you know,
14:58
Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks. And so I think your
15:01
Speaker 1: kind of method of, you know, the analytics and the
15:03
Speaker 1: finding the mid-major guys, it kind of, it's, it was
15:06
Speaker 1: kind of a few years ahead of its time a
15:08
Speaker 1: little bit and it kind of lines up for what
15:11
Speaker 1: is kind of happening with the league a little bit.
15:15
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:15
Speaker 4: I mean, I just think it's, it's like more pattern recognition, right? Like,
15:19
Speaker 4: so like anything you do, or if you have a hobby,
15:22
Speaker 4: you know, when you're like into trading cards or whatever,
15:24
Speaker 4: you start looking at like, Hey, Hey, there's a market
15:27
Speaker 4: emerging for this, or I'm not going to pursue these
15:29
Speaker 4: because I know it'll be priced out and I can't
15:31
Speaker 4: get a much return on this. So I'm going to
15:33
Speaker 4: start trying to get kids that, You're going to roll
15:36
Speaker 4: the dice a little bit, and if they hit, that
15:39
Speaker 4: card will be worth a lot of money.
15:40
Speaker 3: But it's not as much of a sure thing. So
15:41
Speaker 3: I think it's the same thing here. You've got to
15:43
Speaker 3: look at stuff. There's a lot of people who love
15:45
Speaker 3: to complain about the way college athletics are, and it's
15:49
Speaker 3: not great. And I think hopefully in the next couple
15:52
Speaker 3: of years they figure it out. But what's new now
15:57
Speaker 3: is just basically the transferring, whereas even five years ago
16:01
Speaker 3: we had one or two kids who transferred. Now, I
16:03
Speaker 3: think last year we had like eight or nine.
16:05
Speaker 4: So when like originally the going to the mid-major stuff
16:09
Speaker 4: was a great idea because you're like, all right, like
16:12
Speaker 4: these kids need to be seen. They'll covet the experience more.
16:15
Speaker 4: They don't play in front of big crowds all the time. Well,
16:18
Speaker 4: now it's like, are they so good that you know
16:20
Speaker 4: this is a no-brainer they're going to transfer? And then
16:23
Speaker 4: if they transfer, a lot of times these new schools
16:26
Speaker 4: are six figures with these like premier top 50 transfer kids.
16:30
Speaker 3: Now you're an asset.
16:32
Speaker 4: And it's like these coaches are all fighting for their
16:34
Speaker 4: jobs year in, year out. So they're like, do I
16:37
Speaker 4: put my best asset to go out and risk injury?
16:40
Speaker 4: And there's a reasonable debate. I understand both sides of
16:43
Speaker 4: that coin. But when you're building a team, that's really
16:47
Speaker 4: hard to evaluate. And you can spin in circles being like, well,
16:51
Speaker 4: he's going to go, he's going to go. And there's
16:53
Speaker 4: not only Portal, like you said, is he going to
16:55
Speaker 4: make USA? So what we decided a couple of years
16:59
Speaker 4: ago was like, we'll just go crazy.
17:02
Speaker 3: Let's just build depth.
17:04
Speaker 4: So what we just did is we just basically started
17:05
Speaker 4: to reach out to schools saying like, Hey, we should
17:09
Speaker 4: be able to take your guy. But if he doesn't
17:12
Speaker 4: go to USA and he doesn't transfer and everyone is
17:15
Speaker 4: available for some weird reason, there's no injuries.
17:18
Speaker 3: We may have to cut your guy.
17:20
Speaker 4: And so I think, again, it just comes back to
17:21
Speaker 4: being like really transparent, really open with schools, let them
17:24
Speaker 4: know where they stand.
17:25
Speaker 3: Hey, if that doesn't work for you, then maybe you
17:26
Speaker 3: shouldn't sign here.
17:27
Speaker 4: But I think it's just more preparation, like knowing a
17:30
Speaker 4: good mid-major kid, Likely will transfer. You might still get
17:33
Speaker 4: him for the first half. You might get him for
17:35
Speaker 4: the whole year. Like you mentioned, Kane Capley stayed the
17:37
Speaker 4: whole year. You know, Schaffner stayed the whole year. Like
17:40
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily a kill switch. It just really depends
17:44
Speaker 4: on the player and the team they're going to and
17:46
Speaker 4: the agent, to be honest. But I think it's just, yeah,
17:48
Speaker 4: it's planning ahead. I get kind of dumbfounded every year.
17:51
Speaker 4: And it's not just our league, like other leagues where
17:54
Speaker 4: like people are like, oh, I had such a good roster.
17:56
Speaker 4: I don't like, I don't know what happened. It was like, well,
18:00
Speaker 4: by June, like, all those amazing names you knew were
18:03
Speaker 4: going to USA. Like when all those kids hit the portal,
18:06
Speaker 4: like you knew they probably aren't here at the end
18:07
Speaker 4: of the year and people get caught kind of flat footed.
18:10
Speaker 4: And believe me, it's a lot of kids will tell
18:13
Speaker 4: you what you want to hear and then we'll leave regardless.
18:16
Speaker 4: So I'm not trying to say like, we're doing something
18:18
Speaker 4: crazy that everyone isn't doing or we're seeing things they're
18:20
Speaker 4: not seeing, but you know, it's just like, you just
18:23
Speaker 4: got to constantly just have depth and prepare. And even
18:26
Speaker 4: with all that, you know, you're still going to be
18:29
Speaker 4: flat footed. But I mean, this year we, we pivoted
18:32
Speaker 4: to a new kind of model, which is like, Hey,
18:33
Speaker 4: if you transfer, like we're, we're not going to keep you,
18:38
Speaker 4: you know, all, all year. So we started sending that
18:41
Speaker 4: text in like February. We still had eight kids who transferred.
18:47
Speaker 4: And once they let us know, we kind of like,
18:48
Speaker 4: all right, well, here's your two weeks, you know, notice
18:51
Speaker 4: if you will. And we, and, with that like we
18:55
Speaker 4: ended up only having 48 kids this year which we
18:58
Speaker 4: had 69 the year before yeah so kind of just
19:01
Speaker 4: like we were like reinforcing this message all year like
19:03
Speaker 4: if you're not going to play all year not the
19:04
Speaker 4: place for you and i think it did weed out
19:06
Speaker 4: like kids that just weren't into it and we always
19:09
Speaker 4: knew the beginning of the first half where we were
19:10
Speaker 4: not going to be where other teams works they're going
19:12
Speaker 4: to bring in a ton of draft guys they're only
19:13
Speaker 4: going to be here for three weeks we always felt
19:15
Speaker 4: like the second half we.
19:16
Speaker 3: Would really launch and that's really what happened i think we.
19:19
Speaker 4: Won 10 out of the last 13 or something crazy
19:22
Speaker 4: like that but that's kind of where we, we, we thought.
19:24
Speaker 2: We would be.
19:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:26
Speaker 2: Amazing.
19:26
Speaker 1: What kind of do you see as the state of
19:28
Speaker 1: the league now and kind of with this evolving college landscape,
19:32
Speaker 1: how it kind of affects the league in the future? Yeah.
19:35
Speaker 4: I think there's like some doom and gloom articles that like,
19:39
Speaker 4: especially this year, uh, like over slot wrote something, Joe Doyle. Um,
19:45
Speaker 4: and Joe's a smart kid. Um, I, I disagree with
19:48
Speaker 4: a lot of it. Um, i think it when you
19:51
Speaker 4: look up and down at the rosters of other leagues
19:54
Speaker 4: and you're recruiting you know once the year ends you
19:56
Speaker 4: kind of look at who did well in the other
19:57
Speaker 4: summers um there's just not a lot of name recognition
20:01
Speaker 4: there's not a lot of even outside of like what
20:04
Speaker 4: we call like the bigger three up here, like for
20:06
Speaker 4: me and my team, which is like coastal, coastal Plains, Northwoods,
20:11
Speaker 4: any CBL, it's kind of like, you know, California collegiate league.
20:15
Speaker 4: That's kind of like our, like, all right. Like though,
20:18
Speaker 4: you know, and again, can there be good players anywhere?
20:20
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:20
Speaker 4: I'm not, I'm not saying that's not true, but it's
20:23
Speaker 4: just night and day, the, the, the talent and the
20:26
Speaker 4: turnover is annoying. But with that, there's so many, players
20:29
Speaker 4: in the league that like the drafts are crazy you're
20:32
Speaker 4: seeing so much so many of the kids draft um
20:35
Speaker 4: i think there's an unbelievable desire for baseball like you
20:38
Speaker 4: said attendance numbers are are going up year in a
20:42
Speaker 4: year out um you know i think uh the level
20:46
Speaker 4: of play um is still really high um and i
20:51
Speaker 4: i just think the call the everything is evolving constantly
20:56
Speaker 4: and i.
20:57
Speaker 3: Think uh, what's old is new.
21:01
Speaker 4: And I think you'll kind of see this weird thing
21:03
Speaker 4: in the next couple of years where it's all of
21:05
Speaker 4: a sudden going to be like, wait, you've been training
21:07
Speaker 4: all summer.
21:08
Speaker 3: You should play all summer.
21:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:10
Speaker 4: It's kind of like this rediscovery of summer leagues where
21:12
Speaker 4: it's like training is bad. Like if you train too much,
21:15
Speaker 4: you won't get live reps, you'll overwork out and you
21:18
Speaker 4: need that bat. So I kind of think there's just
21:20
Speaker 4: like any fad. It's like, Hey, you got to don't
21:23
Speaker 4: eat carbs. And you're here like, no, you got to
21:25
Speaker 4: eat the right carbs. And then you know, all that
21:27
Speaker 4: stuff like goes in a cycle. And I kind of
21:28
Speaker 4: think we're just in that. And I think we're already
21:30
Speaker 4: coming kind of towards the other end of that, which
21:32
Speaker 4: is like, if, if you can only transfer one time,
21:34
Speaker 4: which I think they just voted on that, you know,
21:36
Speaker 4: stuff like that is going to let, you know, if
21:38
Speaker 4: the kid has already transferred into your program, they don't
21:40
Speaker 4: need to wear the portal anymore. So there may be
21:42
Speaker 4: more app to send them out.
21:43
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
21:44
Speaker 4: So, yeah, I just think changes like that will happen.
21:48
Speaker 4: I just think that at a certain point, kids will
21:50
Speaker 4: learn sitting at home, like doesn't make you better. Like,
21:54
Speaker 4: To a certain extent, training can make you better, but
21:56
Speaker 4: you still need to hit a breaking ball. You still
21:58
Speaker 4: need to throw a strike in a game. If you
22:01
Speaker 4: hit 100 and pull down a thread, that's awesome. Can
22:04
Speaker 4: you throw a strike in a game? That's still an issue.
22:08
Speaker 4: I don't think there's ever going to be a place
22:09
Speaker 4: where the Cape League can't get great players. I just
22:13
Speaker 4: think right now we're going through what everyone's going through,
22:15
Speaker 4: which is this NIL era.
22:20
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me. This was awesome.
22:21
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it.
22:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, Dan. We'll talk soon.
22:28
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. I want to thank again, Nick,
22:30
Speaker 1: for joining us. I think the league, there's no denying
22:34
Speaker 1: the league's at a weird point in its history. And
22:37
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even say bad, right? The games have always
22:39
Speaker 1: been free to attend and rely on donations for funds
22:42
Speaker 1: and volunteers and interns to keep the organizations going. College
22:46
Speaker 1: baseball has also changed a lot. especially post-pandemic, in a
22:50
Speaker 1: lot of good ways. It was very underground. It was
22:53
Speaker 1: a very underground sport for many, many years.
22:58
Speaker 2: I mean, it was... You weren't even going to get.
23:01
Speaker 1: You weren't going to see it on national television for
23:05
Speaker 1: years and years and years until you got to the
23:07
Speaker 1: College World Series, the very end of it.
23:10
Speaker 2: Now you're seeing.
23:13
Speaker 1: Regular season games on ESPN and Fox Sports and, you know, the...
23:18
Speaker 1: streaming services have given more of an opportunity to see it.
23:21
Speaker 1: Teams are starting to really invest in baseball more as
23:24
Speaker 1: kind of that third sport, main sport in their athletics
23:28
Speaker 1: programs behind men's basketball and football. And NIL is really
23:34
Speaker 1: starting to play a big part in it. So back,
23:37
Speaker 1: you know, there was for many, many years with the
23:41
Speaker 1: Cape League, the appeal was these guys that are going
23:44
Speaker 1: to be future big leaguers, they, you're going to get
23:48
Speaker 1: to see them really before anyone else sees them.
23:50
Speaker 2: Their games at school aren't packed. They're not on TV.
23:54
Speaker 1: They're not household names to baseball fans. They're still not huge,
24:00
Speaker 1: big household names. But the top guys among baseball fans
24:05
Speaker 1: nowadays are pretty dang well known before they get drafted.
24:11
Speaker 1: And not only that, they're making good money. I mean,
24:14
Speaker 1: I know I mean he mentioned it. Guys are making
24:17
Speaker 1: six figures now. They go into the transfer portal and
24:22
Speaker 1: these big SEC schools or ACC schools are paying them
24:27
Speaker 1: really good money, not football or basketball money, but they're
24:29
Speaker 1: paying them six figures worth of money.
24:34
Speaker 2: And now you're asking them, these guys who are getting.
24:36
Speaker 1: Paid six figures, to go down to this place in
24:41
Speaker 1: Massachusetts– And live with a host family and share a
24:45
Speaker 1: bedroom with some dude that they didn't know before they
24:48
Speaker 1: came down here. And, you know, risk injury or whatever.
24:55
Speaker 1: And then have their teams risk them getting poached by
24:58
Speaker 1: another coach who comes down to watch them. It's become,
25:03
Speaker 1: at times, a little bit more risky, I think. For
25:09
Speaker 1: players to come. So the reality is that players, the
25:13
Speaker 1: talent has gone down a little bit. Again, Nick said it.
25:18
Speaker 1: There's still big names that will come down and play.
25:22
Speaker 1: They might come down and not play the whole season.
25:24
Speaker 1: And they're going to spend a bunch of different time
25:27
Speaker 1: on the Cape. You know, this guy will come down
25:31
Speaker 1: in June. This guy will come down until the 4th
25:36
Speaker 1: of July. This guy will come down for the postseason. But,
25:39
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at, guys are still getting
25:41
Speaker 1: drafted at a really, really high rate. They, I know
25:47
Speaker 1: from the Harbor Hawks, we, I mean, the 25 team,
25:51
Speaker 1: which wasn't that great of a baseball team, by the way,
25:54
Speaker 1: had three first round draft picks on it, right? And
25:58
Speaker 1: by the way, you know, Hunter Dietz came down and
26:00
Speaker 1: had like an eight ERA here and went in the
26:02
Speaker 1: first round. He wasn't one of our main dudes either,
26:07
Speaker 1: you know? You still see Travis Bazzani in 23 playing
26:12
Speaker 1: his whole season down on the Cape before getting drafted
26:16
Speaker 1: number one overall in 24. You see Brock Cholowski, the
26:23
Speaker 1: first overall pick, played 17 games after his freshman year
26:26
Speaker 1: in 24. The pitching maybe isn't as good, but there
26:29
Speaker 1: is still a ton of talent on Cape. And attendance
26:32
Speaker 1: records and numbers are still way up. And it's just
26:37
Speaker 1: a little bit more messy and teams are just having
26:40
Speaker 1: to get a little bit more creative.
26:43
Speaker 2: Um, you know, players.
26:47
Speaker 1: Have agents now, which wasn't before that way before teams
26:50
Speaker 1: aren't communicating with the players.
26:52
Speaker 2: They're negotiating with agents.
26:54
Speaker 1: Um, in the recent book that came out this summer, uh,
26:58
Speaker 1: Cape Cod baseball league from college charts, the big league
27:00
Speaker 1: futures by Mike Richard and Bill Nolan. Um, they highlight
27:05
Speaker 1: the difficulties of working with modern players. They say, quote,
27:08
Speaker 1: beyond the movement induced by the portal, there is the
27:12
Speaker 1: equally problematic situation of players, especially arriving on Cape with
27:16
Speaker 1: strict pitch counts or English limits dictated by their coaches.
27:19
Speaker 1: And it goes on to say, you know, how this
27:21
Speaker 1: causes concern that the top tier of pitching will no
27:24
Speaker 1: longer appear on Cape and with less talent means less interest.
27:29
Speaker 1: And yes, that's partially true. Guys don't, you know, teams have,
27:33
Speaker 1: Your first week's starters are probably only making three starts.
27:37
Speaker 1: Guys aren't pitching 40-plus innings anymore. But you're also getting
27:40
Speaker 1: to see a unique look at different guys. You have
27:42
Speaker 1: guys pop. I mean, Jamie Arnold, who we previously mentioned,
27:46
Speaker 1: was a first-round pick. He popped and became famous in
27:50
Speaker 1: the baseball world because of what he did on Cape.
27:54
Speaker 1: It gives– I think you can make a case– I
27:58
Speaker 1: won't say this wholeheartedly, but you can make a case
28:01
Speaker 1: that he creates a better– environment because you're getting that
28:05
Speaker 1: mix of the star power and the SEC guy and
28:10
Speaker 1: but also you're getting the unheralded mid-major guy that hasn't
28:15
Speaker 1: been on TV that hasn't done that isn't super well
28:21
Speaker 1: known but comes out shows out like a Jake Shafter
28:25
Speaker 1: like a Kane Keppley who we both highlighted goes through
28:28
Speaker 1: a big school and next thing you know they're a
28:29
Speaker 1: first or second round pick I think that is something
28:33
Speaker 1: that wasn't happening nearly as much in prior years on
28:37
Speaker 1: the Cape. So I think the league's not nearly as
28:44
Speaker 1: bad of a place, and just like Nick, as many
28:48
Speaker 1: people think it is, but there's a lot more discussion
28:50
Speaker 1: to be.
28:50
Speaker 2: Had, both internally and externally.
28:53
Speaker 1: And externally, we will try to continue trying to answer
28:56
Speaker 1: the questions of what really is going on in the Cape,
28:58
Speaker 1: What makes the Cape so special and what makes the
29:01
Speaker 1: Cape Cod Baseball League so special? We will try to
29:04
Speaker 1: answer that question throughout the rest of the series. And
29:06
Speaker 1: that's what we call a teaser in the biz. As
29:09
Speaker 1: that will wrap things up for the first episode of
29:11
Speaker 1: the Harborhawk Retrospective. Thank you, Nick Johnson, for being on
29:14
Speaker 1: the show. Thank you to Bill Nolan and Mick Richard
29:16
Speaker 1: for the information from their book, Cape Cod Baseball League
29:19
Speaker 1: from College Stars to Big League Futures. Go check that out.
29:22
Speaker 1: Credit to ccblstats.com and league statistician Chris Thomas for all
29:26
Speaker 1: the roster information. And thank you for the one and
29:28
Speaker 1: only baseball reference for all statistical information. In episode two,
29:33
Speaker 1: we will talk with Harbor Hawks manager Mitch Kerker, as
29:35
Speaker 1: well as discuss the solutions for issues laid out today.
29:38
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for that. But until then, I'm Daniel Baglino.
29:41
Speaker 2: Have a good one, everybody.