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How to Stay Calm When Your Kids Aren’t (The Skill No One Teaches You) · That Mom

• Maria Woods: you Welcome to That Mom, the podcast where we explore finding more joy and more meaning in the beautiful chaos of motherhood. I'm your host Maria, and I'm so glad you're here. If you ever wanted to feel more calm and confident in your parenting, who hasn't? Today's guest, Mel Pierce is a parenting coach and she has practical strategies as well as mindset shifts to help us do just that. Welcome Mel to That Mom. ⁓ great. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. And I love falling upon your work because you basically say parenting isn't instinctual or mothering isn't always instinctual. That's an interesting take. Can you tell me more about this? Yes, that actually comes from my own experience. So I had a mom who was just a, I say born like natural. She was like the baby whisperer. And so I thought I just expected that for myself. And then I had my son and I was not anything like that. And it was so different than anything I expected. And I think we all have visions of how parenting should be, but kids don't come with a manual and we just expect that we're going to know what to do. But we don't. Yeah. And so there's just that. those expectations that we have of how things are going to be and then how they are in reality are usually so different. I think that's huge and just something important for people to notice because I think for me, when I became a mom, I did think it was going to be very instinctual, but it also was harder to solve the problems than I thought. Like I was okay holding the baby and bathing the baby, but I was like, how do I get them to sleep? How can I? kind of research this or solve this problem. And it really wasn't something to be solved, I think. But in the moment, I was trying so hard to solve this problem. Yeah, that happens to all of us. And we think it is a problem to be solved. often we'll look and here's the thing. There are so many different solutions as well, because every child is different. So what works for one may not work for the next. Yeah. And I do... I hate to say this, but I remember thinking I was so much more nervous with my first child by my second child. When I have my second, I remember the thought, well, I didn't kill the first one. The first one lived. Cause I'll make it through this one too. Cause it just that that first child and not knowing what to do was so hard. Yeah. And a lot of moms are kind of guessing at what to do. And where do you think that comes from? Again, I think part of it is the what we think instinctually should work typically doesn't. then comes the guesswork of and also what works one time and may not work the next time. It's just like your child loves a certain snack until you buy a case of it. And then they don't like it anymore. Every time, every time, right? Murphy's law there. So I think that that just leads to a lot of guesswork because it's just not, it isn't consistent. Kids change, situations change. And also there are so many different things that come into play of even like, are they hungry now? Are they thirsty? Are they tired? Like all of those factors change the situation and how they're going to act. Yeah. So will you tell me a little bit about your personal journey and how you came to be a parenting coach? Sure. So I started as a, honestly, I was an entrepreneur. So I was running my own company and then had children and it was as they were growing. I one being an entrepreneur gave me flexibility, but there was also a lot of stress that went along with that. And so I was working full time. I also was trying to do all of the thinking because I have my own company. I could do all the things right and but it just led to my not doing anything really well if that makes sense. Yeah and so I originally had hired a coach for business to help me get more organized so I wasn't feeling so overwhelmed all the time so I could be a better leader and and do what I needed to do. And I didn't realize how that affected my parenting until actually my daughter made the comment that things were different at home. said, really? said, what's changed? She looked at me, she says, you did. So I realized that, you know, it did that coaching made a huge difference for me personally. And I found myself wanting to do what the coach was doing and not do what I was doing. And so when. COVID happened and I hit 50. I decided, you know what? It's time. And so I went back and I got my coaching certification. Originally I thought I would work with entrepreneurs because it's what I knew. I had grown businesses and that was the life that I knew. And then once someone I was working with asked if I could help teach these concepts to their kids and I lit up like it was nobody's business. And so it just was helping. Parents figure these things out. then also that led to a real deep dive on my end about so many more things. I knew what had worked for me personally and learning those emotional regulation skills, learning different things had helped me become a better parent. But then came the next piece of all the research around really understanding brain development in kids. And I understood it in adults, but how does that then translate to kids? and then finding ways to explain things and work with parents and come up with different solutions. And so it just kind of evolved over the years. Yeah, that's great. ⁓ So you said that you kind of started with regulation for parents. Let's talk about that. Is that the first step? Like if someone's feeling overwhelmed as a parent, would you start with regulation? Where do you start? So the reason why regulation is so important, I actually split this up. talked to parents when I meet them and I explained, said, there's two different skillsets. Let's go. There's two different things that we work on. one are going to be most parents come to me looking for strategies. My child is, you know, they won't get ready in the morning. We have bedtime battles. They won't eat. They won't, you know, they're giving me a hard time. It's all of these different things that fight with their siblings. They're strong willed. They don't listen. all of the different things and they want strategies to help deal with that. The problem is that if you don't have the skills, there's an underlying foundational skill set that goes with it. And that's your ability to remain effective in the moment. So when your child is melting down or being defiant and that's going on, if you are escalating along with them, all of those strategies are going to go right out the window. So you have to maintain that skill set, that underlying skill set for yourself. That emotional regulation is important because otherwise you're not going to be able to use the strategies. Yeah. I think that's so important because I'll be honest, I never really thought about emotional regulation until I became a mom because until I was tested by Like, you you're kind of, you can be triggered. Like all of a sudden you feel like you want to snap or you're very frustrated. And so for me, it kind of has taken going through that experience to say, a minute, like what is going on here? And it's true. I really thought I was the most calm, level-headed person until I became a parent. And then all of a sudden I'm like, wait, who is this raving lunatic that shows up? And that did, and I full transparency, I often tell parents now, because I do have a workshop I do, like how to ⁓ stop yelling, stay calm and stop yelling. But part of it is I'm a reformed yeller. I never thought that would be me. But I really started, I was triggered often. it just, I would escalate with my kids and then look back and be like, where did that, who is that person? Where did that come from? Can you tell me about this pattern? it like, do we learn it from maybe we grew up in a household where yelling is common? Is it, why are we triggered? Like why do parents yell at kids and how can we start to stop that? So it comes from, mean, obviously yes, what you're growing up and what you're exposed to matters, there is also a, like understanding this from the brain science helps. First of all, emotions are contagious. And so, and you know that when you walk into a room and someone, like there's been a fight, something going on, like you pick up on that energy. Yeah. And I know, I remember walking in the house at one point and having someone in the family say, well, we were all in a really good mood until you got home. ⁓ And so what happens is whoever is most connected to their emotions is going to have the biggest influence. And so we do when our, and when our kids are upset or there's something going on, they are really connected to those emotions. So we can get, we can just get sucked into that emotional vortex that they have going on so easily. so once that happens, right, we do, and they're in what I call the monkey brain, right? When they're there, if we, one, we can get sucked into it. Yeah. Two, if we have expectations that they're going to behave a certain way, they're going to do something, they should listen, they should cooperate. Like if we have those expectations and they're not meeting them, we get frustrated. We're set up for failure. Right. Yeah. And I can see too, like sometimes when your child is upset, me personally, I know it is upsetting because it's, you're feeling empathetic in some ways or they're frustrated. it's. I think it is a little challenging to not become frustrated alongside your child. Right. It is. And there is a, one of the things that I coach most often on is actually helping parents become OK with their child's negative emotions. And because it is, so many times we think they shouldn't experience frustration. They shouldn't be upset. They shouldn't be sad. They shouldn't feel a certain way. And we don't want that for them. And we can see that as our job to help protect them. so it, and I, the other thing I say is that's completely normal. So if you think about when they're a baby, when they have to cry to communicate with us, so that's how we learn when they're uncomfortable. Like we are trained from a very, from the moment they're born to react to those emotions, to take care of them, because that's how they let us know if they're hungry. if they need to be changed, if they're tired and they need to be soothed. So we are fixing for those things when they're an infant. So what happens, that becomes a problem though, as they grow and we're still trying to fix for those emotions. But those emotions are a natural part of life. And so one of the problems, and this is what I explained to parents, that our job isn't to protect them from feeling those feelings. Our job is to help them learn to navigate through them and learn what to do when they're feeling anxious or frustrated or sad. What tools do they have? What do they do? And also, that is a normal part of life. we don't want to not feel those things. You're not going to know happiness if you don't know sadness. You have to have that contrast. And the ability to kind of work through your own emotions. Right. OK. So it starts with. I think recognizing what's going on and being more aware of your own emotions. So first of all, part of that, yes. And also for you, when you see your child have a negative emotion and like, it's okay. They're allowed to be upset. Right. And this is one of the other things I have. They're allowed to not like the rules. Yes. I don't have to like the fact that they have to pick up their toys and come to dinner. Right. And so a lot of times we expect it's kind of like you ask your partner to take the garbage out and they do so, but grumbling, right. And then you're annoyed. Like we want people to do things with a song in their heart and a smile on their face. Right. That doesn't happen. can't always control that. Right. Yeah. Right. So sometimes, you know, just accepting that it's okay. They don't have to like it and that's okay. That little piece can, it can change so much for how you're showing up. Yeah, because your expectations, if they're not a mismatch with reality, it allows you to stay a little more calm. Yeah, a little more. I call it the land of neutral. The land of neutral. Yes, you talk about neutral parenting. And how does a neutral parent show up in a difficult situation? So I always explain to parents, said, listen, it is really difficult to show up as the perfectly calm, Zen parent all the time. OK, that's good to know. Right, yes. That is not feasible. When your child is screaming and yelling at you and telling you, you know, they hate you, like, for you to be that loving, kind, parent at that moment, that's not going to happen. Okay. Okay. Because I think there's some advice that kind of makes it seem like we should be able to do that. No. And no. So one, don't even set that expectation for yourself. Okay. Okay. Two, The alternative, you also don't want to become that raving lunatic that I talked about either, right? But there's a big space in between those two. And I call that space the land of neutral. So if you can just find that neutral space there, that's where you stay more effective. And you're not escalating with your child. You're not getting into your. own monkey brains, you're both going to clash, but you're able to maintain your neutrality so you can be effective in helping support your child through it and remember your strategies. Can you walk me through an example of someone, a parent escalating with a child and then a parent remaining neutral, like a specific example, just so it can be really tangible? Sure. So the, ⁓ had a A mom who was ⁓ telling me about a situation. They had been away for vacation and her three year old kept talking about how excited she was to go back to school. All excited to go back to school, all excited to go back to preschool, right? Until the morning that it was time to go back to preschool. And then she was having a meltdown in the bathroom. And the mom, course, is going through that. I can't believe that she was so excited. I don't know what's going wrong. I don't know what her problem. And the mom snapped. Right. And then of course she felt better afterwards. And, and so we talked about, was coaching her through some of this and I said, one, that's completely normal. Let's just talk about what your, was going through your brain at the moment and why you ended up escalating with her and, and what happened there. said, what if you had. had the thought, well, of course she doesn't want to go back to school. She's been on vacation with, and she's been with us this entire time for the past week. Of course she doesn't want to go back. Yeah. That's just kind of a neutral thought. You're recognizing what's happening, but you're not really attaching anything to it. I said, then at that point, you could be like, wow, you know what? All of a sudden, it's time to go back, and it's kind of sad, right? Yeah, allows you to approach it from a much different place than like, expectations aren't being met. Why is this happening? Yeah. So if you just come at that place, of course she is. And then you can talk to her about, well, you're really upset. And you can just ask, like, you seem really upset this morning. And then you pause and you wait. So many times we want to fill that space. Like we tend, we think we can talk our kids through their feelings. And if we keep talking and we're going to be able to fix it somehow. And I had, ⁓ I had another mom tell me, she's like, wow, I never realized how much I talk. So sometimes it's just that leading of, wow, you seem really upset this morning. And then you're just silent. Yeah. wait. Right? Yeah. I think that's probably hard for a lot of people, but it's a great. Piece of advice. Yes. Yes. That pause can be helpful. Yes. And then you also mentioned brain and brain development. And that's a piece that helped you and helps your clients talk to us about brain development in kids. So I always use animals to describe this. First of all, one, it gives parents a visual. So when something is going on, can actually, they can see the animal and kind of see what's going on. And two, it also gives them the language. So at some point they may actually be able to help describe to their child too using animals. It just makes it easy to understand. So I talk about the primal brain. I always put my hand back here. Okay. It's the brains of that survival brain, right? That is the monkey and the monkey is it's the downstairs brain. The monkey is that survival instinct. was fully that part of the brain is fully developed by age one. Wow. And so that's that piece of the bit because it's that urge to survive, but it's that fight, flight, freeze, right? That's what the monkey knows how to do. Now, the upstairs brain, right? That's the wise owl. The wise owl is the prefrontal cortex. And that's the part of our brain that is responsible for regulating our emotions, being able to control our impulses, being able, like the communication. problem solving, the logic, all of that happens up here. Now I use the downstairs and upstairs. That concept actually comes from Dr. Daniel Siegel and Dr. Tina Payne Bryson from The Whole Brain Child. And they give you a visual of imagine that you walk into a house. So it's a brand new house. The downstairs is all fully done. like decorated, the fixtures are in, painted, everything. You go over to the ups, go upstairs and the stairs are plywood and the opens are two by fours and rafters because that is your child's upstairs brain. The upstairs brain, that prefrontal cortex is completely under development. It's under construction through their young years. It goes through a complete remodel in their teens. It is not fully developed until they're ages like 24 to 27. So girls, it's 24, boys, it's 26 to 27. So that part we think, right. And that is that part of their brain that's impulse control, their ability to regulate their emotions. All of that happens up here. Right. It also that part of their brain, this part of the brain takes a tremendous amount of energy. So if you think about how a, when a child goes to school, like their ability to stay in line, to focus, like all of that is wise owl. And so it takes so much energy. So when they get home, they're exhausted. Yeah. Right. And they just can't hang on anymore. Yeah. So, and then in between, this is the amygdala. That's the emotional part. ⁓ that is, it processes, ⁓ the emotion that's where the emotions happen. I have a harder time explaining that to be honest with you, but it is quick thinking, and very responsive. So if you are walking up to the side of the road, your child's with you and your child goes to come out, but there's a car coming, your arm automatically goes back. That's the amygdala just kicking in. That's that immediate response. But what happens with the emotions when our kids experience a big emotion, when they experience anger or frustration, any of that happens, right? It triggers the amygdala. So the amygdala I call the barking puppy. So as soon as that amygdala gets triggered, the puppy starts barking. As soon as the puppy barks, the wise owl flies away. Okay. And we are left with the monkey and the monkey only knows how to fight, run away or shut down. So kind of what you're saying, if, if moms can understand that this brain development in children, we can better align our expectations to what's even possible in dealing with our kids in these more challenging moments. Yeah. Well, and a lot of times, especially parents will say to me, like, I don't understand this happened to like, and I, they just, they lost it. couldn't, they're not listening or anything. And so when I start explaining the what's happening and the fact that they got the barking puppy got triggered. And then at this point you were left with a monkey. Yeah. And so most parents, biggest mistake they make is thinking that they can talk to and work with the monkey. And so they're trying to reason, they're trying to justify, they're trying to explain. when your child is upset, your younger child, yep. You shouldn't try to explain. You shouldn't try to reason. No, no. OK. That's just going to enrage the monkey even more. Yes. Right? I have seen this firsthand. Yeah. So your first job when your child's upset is to calm the barking puppy. OK. And how do moms do that? Or dads, for that matter. Or dads. There's a couple different things. First of all is one, the one tool that at any point, like if you can get your child to breathe. At that point now a lot of times, right? They're going to get angry and they're going to be like, I don't want to do any of this, but we'll get into that in a minute. But if you can get them to breathe, the breath is the single most powerful tool that we have available to us in any single moment. And because if you think about, um, if you are anxious or you're in a life or death stressful situation, you're not taking deep breaths, right? And it's more, you're taking quick, shallow breaths. But when you take a deep breath, you are telling your nervous system, am safe. Because you wouldn't do that unless you were. Right. And so if you can get your child to take some deep breaths and actually ⁓ school adjustment counselors, occupational therapists, they have all I've talked to so many of them. They're like, if you can get parents to get the kids to do this, not only when they're upset, but just throughout the day, like just learn to have them. check in and take deep breaths every once in a while, it helps to actually keep that normal instead of escalating and having to bring it back down. Mm-hmm. Yeah. OK, so one, deep breaths are helpful. But the other thing is just recognizing when they feel, when kids feel heard and seen and understood. So even when I go back to that daughter, you know, the mom in the bathroom with a three-year-old and a three-year-old not wanting to get ready for school that morning, right? But just that, wow, you seem really upset this morning. Yeah, now she feels understood. Yeah, she feels seen. She feels understood. then she doesn't need to keep fighting against something. Right. And so that piece of feeling seen and understood. And then a lot of times I will have parents say, yeah, that doesn't work with my kid. And so in that case, the other thing I say is let it out. A lot of times we're like, shove it down, right? Just calm down. We want them to calm down. We want them to de-escalate. Emotions will move through our body in 90 seconds if we let them. Wow. So the key is, most of the time we don't. Most of the time we're not, we're one, we're thinking, if you think about yourself, you're thinking about that situation over and over again, which is keeping all of the emotions live. Okay. But if you can just let that emotion live without keeping the brain spiral going with it, then it will just move through you. But so sometimes with your kids, it's just as let it out. You know, you're really upset. Yeah, wow, you're really upset. Why don't you, you know what? Stomp your feet. Show me how angry you are. Shake your hands. So if you notice when animals in the wild, will, ⁓ if a zebra has been chased by a tiger and it gets away, it has cortisol and all of those chemicals running that it needed for that flight response. And so once the danger is passed, it has to go back to The sympathetic is the stress response. The parasympathetic nervous system is the rest and digest. It'll shake. Animals will shake to get back to the parasympathetic. So that's why I sell the parents. I'm like, them snuff their feet. Have them shake their hands. Shake their body. Show me. Let them move some of that emotion out. Yeah. I'm curious, talking through brain development and strategies with kids, how much of your work is based on the parent and how much is based on the child, so to speak? a lot of this ⁓ having to do with just how the parent shows up and their mindset? It depends on the parent. Some parents do come to me and we talk through the situations. Some parents, it really is heavy coaching on learning how to stay regulated themselves. Other parents really are, they're okay there, but their natural instincts are, like I said, to talk their child through it. Like they need more of the strategies. And so it just depends on each parent. and kind of what they're showing up with. Yeah. Are there any other... I love the kind of moving through the emotion and using physical movement to do that. Are there any other strategies that come up often in your work? So, there are a number. ⁓ The one tool that for parents, I call it that parent from neutral tool. Okay. And that first is honestly learning to... ⁓ called it parents from neutral is an AB and I say it's as easy as ABC. So I really wanted to come up with something that they could in the moment. Just be a B C not this huge convoluted thing. And so a is just plain ad space, which means you pause. So ideally you, you learn to pause yourself. Okay. B is breathe. That's that simple. Yeah. Yeah. And if you put your heart on your, your hand on your heart, your body naturally releases oxytocin. So if you can, at a lot of times, and I tell people all this, if I'm stressed, you'll see me walking around like this. Just take a deep breath. like, OK, I've got this. I'm talking myself through it. I'll put my hand on my heart and take a deep breath. And then C is choose a new thought. So typically, if I ask, if I have parents that say, We have such a hard time in the mornings. I'm like, okay, tell me exactly what you're thinking is this is going on. They'll have this litany. It's like, we're going to be late. Why do they always do this? They know the routine. Like they can tell me exactly what their thoughts are almost like verbatim. This is what they think every morning, but you can feel when you go through those thoughts, you can feel that tension rise in your body. And so as soon as you have those thoughts, your body's going to go back into this is how we respond. We get stressed, we respond and we respond, you know, and we escalate. So if that, if we're going to do ABC, it's like, okay, well, we're going to pause. We're going to take a deep breath and you're going to choose a new thought. And, and the recommendation is always pick that thought ahead of time because you are not going to remember and be able to grab it in the moment. Our bodies, our brains want to. program things right it uses less energy. It takes more energy to come up with new thought 80 % of the thoughts are thoughts we've had before yeah because new thoughts take more energy so you have to think about that thought that you want to have and so that morning when you're getting up it's like okay you know what we're fine we always make it out the door I'm fine and honestly even if we're late it's not the end of the world it's okay we can handle this the calmer I stay the more effective I am yeah. So that's your new thought. You're saying this other thought is not serving me. It's causing all these emotions to get stirred up about being late. So I'm just going to choose a different thought that we are going to make it on time. And even if we don't, everything's still going to be fine. Yeah. The world is not going to end. The world is not going to end. So that's your ABC tool. And so that's why I come back to neutral a lot. And here's the thing. You get to tell yourself whatever you want. Yeah. It's so that's important to remember. is. Yeah, it is. So you can tell yourself like they're just being defiant, right? They're being difficult, right? That's not going to help you in the moment. Yeah. And it's you know what? A lot of times it's true. Yes, they are being difficult. It would be so much easier if they were flexible. Yeah, but that thought doesn't help you remain effective in the moment. And so it's like, you know what? He can have a hard time. I don't have to have a hard time too. I can handle this. I even like that thought. Yeah, they can have a hard time, but I don't have to have a hard time. Yeah. Right. can. And the more calm I stayed, the more effective I am. Yeah. Right. Those things. It's like figuring out ahead of time, what is going to support you in that moment and then practicing those. Um, I've had some other conversations with guests about what it means to be a good mom. But do you have any ideas ⁓ in terms of what's out there about being a good mom or what's misunderstood about being a good mom? I think there's so much pressure. And honestly, everyone has different definitions. So some parents come to me and they think good mom means their child always feels good, they're well adjusted, like they're doing well. And so then the parents, again, try to make sure that they're making things perfect or trying to help their child avoid difficult situations, avoid negative feelings, right? And that's not helpful. No, in the long run, no. the long run, that's really not helpful. so part of that, you know, taking the pressure off yourself, I had one mom who said, you know, she was putting so much pressure on herself because she hadn't enjoyed being a parent for the past year. And I said to her, ⁓ okay. You know what? You have a toddler. That's completely normal. And she went, ⁓ wow. I was beating myself up and feeling so badly that I wasn't enjoying this. I'm like, no, this this stage sucks. This stage is hard. Let's just be real, especially if you have a strong willed Yes. It's really difficult. Yes. It's not enjoyable. So let's take that off the table. And that just made her feel so much better. Yeah. So the expectations we have to enjoy things at times, if we can just acknowledge that, you know what? There are times where parenting is hard. Yeah. It's hard. We shouldn't feel guilty for not enjoying every moment. Exactly. And when you acknowledge, like, yes, it's hard, and I'm still going to show up. I'm going to do this to the best of my ability. I'm not, like, perfection is, it's not even possible. Yeah. So I'm human. And I'm going to make mistakes. how I respond and acknowledge my mistakes, how I respond to them, how I do the repair, how I take responsibility, how I work to make sure I'm not making the exact same mistake over and over again, my child's going to learn from that. Yeah. You're being a role model. Yeah. Great. Does that make sense? It totally makes sense. Yeah. And I love that example because I think there's a lot of people probably, a lot of moms feel guilt about the way they're doing things or the way they feel. And you're taking that off the table. Yeah, I am. And usually I'm saying, stop looking at social media. Yes. That is not helpful. It's not helpful. No, no. And you know what? That's not even real. No, it's not helpful. It's not real. But there are lots of parenting ⁓ tips and tricks on social media now. ⁓ there are. There absolutely are. I'm talking about the when everyone else's life, you think their life looks perfect. Yeah, yeah. A comparison. Yeah. Yeah, that comparison isn't helpful. Yeah. And so you say that you're able to help parents, parent with more confidence. ⁓ How do you see that come through with your clients when they, what is it that they changed to get that confidence? So part of it is I help them realize actually what is going well. Okay. So part of the time is we have such a negativity bias. we always look for what's going wrong. Which is, honestly, I mean, we're wired that way. That's how our species survived. We had to watch out for danger and see what was coming up and prepare for it. And those that did were the ones that survived. OK. OK. Yeah. So that negative bias is there. The problem is it doesn't serve us very well. Right? And it doesn't. All we're seeing is what we're doing wrong. And so when we can take a step back, and I always explain, said it's the forget who it is, the gap in the gain theory. But we always look at the gap of everything we're doing wrong or how far we have to go. But not as often do we look at what we are doing well or how far we've come. Yeah. But when we look at those pieces, we're so much more motivated to keep going. Yeah. Right? And so when you figure out, one of the things I do is when I'm coaching with someone, We start by learning some of the concepts, but then in the following conversations, part of it is, let's talk about what went well. Let's break down what you did differently. What did work? Because when you focus on that, then you can repeat it. And a lot of times, we'll see something went really well up to a certain point and then fell apart. So then we think nothing went well. Right. Not acknowledging the piece that did actually go well. Right. But if you can see what did go well, what you did do well, All of a sudden, say you went for five days without yelling. That's huge. And then you yelled. Yes, you're going to feel awful. But let's acknowledge the fact that you went five days where you didn't. That's amazing. One mom telling me, her son said, you yell so much. She's like, I haven't yelled for 37 days. And she knew. She'd been working on it. So when you start to realize and you track those things, of what is going well, what I am doing right. Yes, there's still things I want to work on. There are always things that we're working on. But when you start to acknowledge and give yourself credit and kudos for the things you are doing well, then it just makes such a difference in how you feel and how you show up. And you do feel more confident. Yeah, I love that. So practical. ⁓ I have a couple more questions. One is about when moms feel really overwhelmed, I'm imagining moms or parents come to you when they're in this place and they're feeling overwhelmed. Where do they start to kind of sift through that feeling? So the first thing I usually do is help them recognize that overwhelm is one of the most useless emotions that we can feel. Because what happens is usually we feel overwhelmed when we need to get the most done, but feeling overwhelmed makes us get the least amount done. That overwhelm takes us to a place of of like shutting down or the thoughts we just, takes us forever to do something. We spin, we can't focus. It's just not helpful. Yeah. So part of, there are a number of things I do. First thing I recommend is actually in the morning, if you can, like if you're super overwhelmed, like do your best, try to get up even five minutes, 10 minutes before the kids, right? And don't get on your phone, get up, get yourself a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, sit down for a few minutes. Center yourself, right? And then ask some better questions. Like, how do I want to show up today? What's going to help me be the best mom, be the best myself today? Asking better questions, getting a little more intentional about how you want your day to unfold. That can be really helpful. And honestly, I talked about for me, just your hand on your heart, deep breaths. And then those thoughts of, it's OK, I always get everything done. Those little things that you can tell yourself that are going to help you get through it. Yeah. Those things. And then the other thing I recommend is the 15 minute rule. So a lot of times, it's like you don't know where to start. I'm like, pick one thing and set a timer for 15 minutes and just do that. Just do that and see how you do. I remember there was one day I had a room that was a disaster. And I did, I'm like, okay, fine. 15 minutes, that's all I have to do. I don't care how far I get. just, I'm like, I was done in six minutes and I, I was like, what? seemed like it was going to be like two hours. Right. Six minutes. Yeah. And it was so surprising. So sometimes it's just like, because in your head, like I can do anything for 15 minutes and then you find it doesn't take as long as nearly you thought it would. Yeah. Love that. really like the morning piece of advice because you don't need 30 minutes, 20 minutes. You're maybe saying five minutes. Yes. And I find myself when I take a moment to myself in the morning to just breathe, to just remember what's important to me and how I want the day to go. It does help you to frame that day and to find more of what you're looking for. Helps you to kind of filter for that and make sure when I wake up and it's like... I'm waking up with the kids because someone's calling me and I got to get breakfast and clothes and get ready for work. I mean, I think that's a hard way to wake up. Not that I love getting up super early, but I think that if you can make room for five, I think that's huge. is. And also recognizing, I explain this often when you are, your brain will look to give you evidence for your feelings. Yeah. Okay. So if you are feeling overwhelmed, your brain is going to filter to find more reasons that you should be overwhelmed. So I don't know if you have a lot going on. All of a sudden, your brain starts to tell you, oh, and we need to get the summer clothes out for the kids and put the winter clothes away and make sure we put the box away with the label it for the next kid of what the sizes are. And we have to clean this closet too. And we have to get this stuff in the garage packed up. And I've got to make reservations for this and the doctor's appointment for that. Have you ever noticed that your brain does that? Absolutely, yeah. Right? Because your brain is, you're overwhelmed. So your brain's like, well, let me give you all the other reasons that you should be overwhelmed too. Yeah. And so that's that piece of just taking a step back and knowing it's OK. Like, yes, this is, there are, and sometimes there are five things on my list I need to do. And it will get done. And it's OK. And but like intentionally working to kind of drag yourself out of it and support yourself through it. Yeah, because your brain like you mentioned the brain filter. Your brain will filter to to support whatever direction you want to go. Yeah. And so but the one thing that does help is your brain also will work to answer any questions that you ask. OK, so the questions, the quality of the questions you ask are so important. That's why I said like, OK. How do I want to show up today? What's going to make me most effective today? And then you're filtering for the positive that you're putting out there, filtering for those questions. Yeah. Instead of, why does this always happen to me? Why do the kids always do this on days like this? Up, up, up, up, up, right? Those are the questions we're typically asking. But if we can ask better quality questions and get more intentional about it, we can set up a completely different day for ourselves. Yeah. I love that. And I think, too, so five minutes early, that's doable. And I think on the days when those five minutes don't happen, first thing, you could still do it a little later, like once your kids are dropped off or once the bus gets them or once you have five minutes at work or in the car or whatever. I mean, I love first thing, but I think make it happen if it can't be first thing. ⁓ life's not perfect. No, it's not. And there were so many times where, you know, I'll have moms say if the kids have a bad morning, then they have a bad day. It's kind of like, well, why does it have to be that way? Yeah. What if you did a reset? And literally, it's like drop them off, take five minutes, just sit in the car, take some deep breaths. Like, you know what? It's OK. It's OK. They can have a bad morning. It doesn't mean the rest of my day has to go this way. Right. Like, how can I turn my day around from here? Yeah. How can I have a good day from here on out? Right? Yeah. And then also knowing that piece of, and then, like, how can I help shift things, like, as soon as I pick them up? Like, how in shift to set out the good tone for our afternoon. Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of your work really leads your clients to enjoy parenting more. Is that something that you find? Yes. And also, I don't know if it's enjoy parenting more. The one thing I like to say is being present to what's already there. I did, and I learned this from my own experience. My family once got me a gratitude journal. And it was for one year. I had to. And so each day I would write down like three things that I was grateful for that day. After a couple months, or it might have even been, I don't know how long it was in it. This was a number of years ago. I look back and I realize I wasn't grateful for the big things. Yes. I was grateful for the moment when my child helped clean the kitchen and I came down. I was so surprised. They had picked up. They'd done something unexpected. Sometimes it was just a hug. They came up and gave me a hug and said, I love you, mommy. Yeah. And, or I had the opportunity to, you know, just sit and cuddle and watch a show with them. And so I found that the moments were there. If I was, they were always there. I just wasn't always present to them. So so much of, especially, you know, I talk about having my own business and having things like so much of my brain was taken up with all the different things going on and all this and that here and there. And so when I got more present to what was going on, all of a sudden I enjoyed it more. Things didn't change. Nothing really changed. It was me being more present to the moments that were already there. Yeah. And by writing down what you're grateful for, it almost seems like you're filtering for more of those types of positive moments. Right. Yeah. I love a gratitude journal. ⁓ it's amazing. And so one of the other things, I had a mom. a full-time working mom who had three young boys and she wanted to have more of those moments. And I said to her, said, I know this is counterintuitive, but I want you to put them on your calendar and schedule them. And she looked at me, she's like, what? I said, listen, your brain is always going to tell you, you should be cleaning the closet and doing this and doing that and in laundry. And I mean, you work full-time, you've got three boys, it's always going to be there. But I said, if you have it on your calendar to take an hour and take the boys for just a walk in the park, and you have that schedule or do whatever, like it's just time with the boys, you get to do whatever you want to do. I said, then your brain isn't thinking that you need to be doing something else because it's on your calendar. I love that because it's so hard when, let's say after work, you're like, want to. be present and hang out with my kids, but also I need to make dinner and empty the lunch boxes and all the things. So I love that advice. So if you schedule it, you just feel a little more free to go ahead and enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. That's another little tip there. Yeah, that's huge. ⁓ Okay. Let's see. I had a question in terms of there's so many shoulds in parenting. Are there any shoulds that you strong feel strongly that mom should drop? The well first should okay. Should is just a shame sandwich. Yes. And if you tell yourself you should do something like I should do this, you're almost like you're making yourself feel badly because you already should have done it. Right? So first drop the word should just delete it. Yeah, just delete it. And the other thing that I say often is, know what? Just recognizing that When you tell yourself I have to like I have to do this I have to do that I'm like you don't have to do anything beyond breathe. Let's talk face it right? Yeah, you don't have to do anything beyond breathe I said you're not gonna you well, I have to take care of my kids I'm like technically you don't you're not gonna like it when social services shows up, but when you go recognize the I'm choosing Right? want to take care of my kids. take care of my kids. Like I'm choosing, I'm choosing to go get groceries. I'm choosing to make lunches tonight because you know what? It's going to make my life easier tomorrow morning. When we start recognizing that things are a choice and we are doing things like I'm choosing to do this because of, know, choosing to spend time right now with my child because I'm building that emotional bank account. And, or I'm choosing to get this done now so I have free time tomorrow. It's just when you start to recognize that things are a choice, does. It just feels so much better. It does. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you don't want to choose to do something, you could delegate it to someone else. Right. Exactly. Or delete it from your list or whatever it is. Yeah. And then the other piece also is just, again, when I come back to that getting comfortable with your child having negative emotions and just like, you know what? It's OK. It's OK for them to be angry. It's OK for them to be sad. it doesn't mean that my heart doesn't hurt for them. But these are all how we show up and how we support them through it is helpful. ⁓ Final big question is, what does joy and motherhood look like for you? So my kids are now 22 and 25. And one of the things that I started telling myself earlier was like, you know what? It just gets better and better. And I actually think I started to filter and set myself up for that. Like, each stage was so, like, it was amazing to watch them. Yes, some stages were hard. Don't get me wrong. Some stages were hard. But the. Looking back now, the things I remember, I mean, were one, not trying to do everything all the time, right? There were moments in it's like fitting in those moments of joy, but it wasn't something I explained it like at Christmas time, like going on the Polar Express, going to see Santa, going all the things that we did over the years. We didn't do them all every year. They happened over time. so recognizing those pieces of, know, when we had, we took time, we did things as a family, we would, that stood out, right? When you can have, or you can have fun as a family, whatever it may be. And it doesn't have to be something big. Sometimes it's just a family game night that ends up being hysterical, right? Right. And you remember it. You remember the story. You remember the thing that came up and being present. That's the other pieces though. Just being present to those moments as they. Mm-hmm. Right. And I will tell you, on being on the flip side of things, that you do, I mean, yes, you go back and you remember those things that you regret and you're like, ⁓ but I also try to counter those with, you know what, there's a lot of things I did right. There's a lot of things I did right. And the efforts that I put in early at this stage of the game, adult children are so much fun, so much fun. And, but I did have to change my own relationship with them when, you know, at a certain point I had to shift and I made the change and, I'm so grateful that I did. I'm so grateful I did that work and we have the relationship we do now, but, ⁓ just going back to, think joy is being present to the moments that are already there. Yeah, that's beautiful. So I know we can find you at MelPierceCoaching.com. that right? Actually, it's just MelPierce. Just MelPierce. MelPierce. Even easier. Well, not necessarily because Pierce is backwards. Pierce is P-E-I-R-C-E. So it's just MelPierce.com. Out there, can, if you click, there's a, if, honestly, I do consults with parents. If you have any questions and want to see what it would like to be, get to get support, you can just line up for a free parenting consult. and get that. also, ⁓ there's a way to join. There's a join button to get on my email list. I send out parenting. I call it Toolbox Tuesday. So I send out parenting tips every single Tuesday, just one quick easy one to help add to your parenting toolbox. And I send out my article. write weekly articles, ⁓ articles on different things that come up. ⁓ This spring has been strong-willed kids. Challenges that come with that. Great. I need to check out that one. Strategies to deal with it. So, ⁓ I do recommend, you know, just getting on my email list and then you'll see, as I come up with different workshops and different events going on, you'll get them in the, but you do get the toolbox Tuesday tip every week too. Great. Well, we'll link your website in the show notes so people can easily find it. Thank you. ⁓ is there anything else you want to say in closing? I think if anything, it's just that be the kinder you are to yourself, right? The kinder you're going to be overall. So when you are beating yourself up and seeing everything you're doing wrong, you get a filter and that's how you start to see everyone else too. So you'll see every thing that your partner does wrong, everything your kids do wrong. If that's the lens through which you see yourself, as soon as you start being more kind and you give yourself more space. And acknowledged the, and I remember one comment I used to make my family often when I was learning to change, you know what? I'm really sorry. I wish I hadn't done that. I did. I can't change it, but I promise you that I'm going to work to do better in the future. Like it gave myself that piece. And, and then I really did work to change. And, I did change over time, but the more space you give yourself, the more space you start to have for the other people in your life too. So it really does start with you. That's beautiful. Thank you, Mel. Oh, thank you, Maria. I appreciate you having me. This is Maria, and you've been listening to That Mom. Thank you for being here. If this episode resonated, share it with a mom who needs it too. And if you're ready for more, your next episode is waiting, because every conversation here is meant to empower you to live better.