Latest / Pod Save America / Trump Unloads on No Kings

Transcript

Trump Unloads on No Kings · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's presenting sponsor is SimpliSafe Home Security. It's really feeling
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: like the 1970s these days. Inflation, an unpopular war, and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: an insecure little criminal in the White House. Yeah, I've
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: been thinking about the Watergate break-in a lot lately. Republicans
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: just aren't doing it like that anymore. No ingenuity. Do
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you guys think Watergate could have been prevented with SimpliSafe's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: proactive protection that stops crimes before they even start?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I actually think it could have been. Yeah?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I think they got something here.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, even without SimpliSafe, those guys got caught.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: They did get caught.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: You know? And it unraveled the whole thing.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe the whole thing would have happened faster, simply safe.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: If only Nixon knew, he could have just gone, witch hunt.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: The whole thing would have evaporated. Now you set up
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: simply safe and no Watergate at your house.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Not so far. Not so far. No creep coming at me.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I did have Oliver Northover.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's just for tea.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, gotcha.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. Who knows? Simply safe smart cameras detect-
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Now he's alive.
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: Good.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Simply safe smart cameras detect threats while they're still outside
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: your home and alert real security agents. This is the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: game changer. The agents take action while the intruder is
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: still outside. They confront the intruder, letting them know they're
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: being watched on camera by robots and that police are
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: on their way and even sounding a loud siren and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: triggering a spotlight if needed. This is how you stop
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a crime before it starts. That's real security. Other systems
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: have cameras that let you talk to intruders, but they
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: require you to see the alert yourself. SimpliSafe's monitoring agents
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: have your back and talk to intruders even if they
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: aren't there. They talk to potential intruders.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: You!
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: You look like you're walking weird. Yeah, for sure. You
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: stay away from this house.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I see that look on your face. That's what they do.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: There are no long-term contracts or hidden fees. You can
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: cancel any time. Name best home security systems by U.S.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: News & World Report for five years running. 60-day money-back
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: guarantee so you can try it and see the difference
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: for yourself. Right now, our listeners can save 50% on
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com slash crooked. That's simplisafe.com
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: slash crooked. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: And John, this just in, SimpliSafe has gotten a new award.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Best copy of the day. Best copy of the day.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Simply safe. That was great.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: The Watergate really did it.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: MSNBC presents season two of The Blueprint, hosted by Jen Psaki.
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: Each week, she talks to leading Democrats about how they
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: plan to win again, including Texas Congressman Greg Kassar, who
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: chairs the Progressive Caucus, Congresswoman Sarah McBride of Delaware, the
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: first openly trans person elected to Congress, and more who
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: are helping to shape the future of the party. The
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: Blueprint with Jen Psaki, Season 2. Listen now wherever you
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: get your podcasts.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: On today's show, we got Pete Hegseth and J.D. Vance
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: celebrating the Marines by having them detonate artillery shells over
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: California freeways. Donald Trump showing us he's not a king
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: by musing about more domestic troop deployments and political prosecutions.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: All while the President of Peace struggles to get a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: handle on Gaza, Ukraine, and a growing military conflict he's
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: now started in the Caribbean. Then later, you'll hear Tommy's
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: exclusive interview with Graham Plattner. who's running for Senate in
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Maine and has had quite a week.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: He's had a week. There's been a lot of reporting
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: on Reddit posts he made over the years, some of
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: them pretty controversial. So we walked through a lot of those.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: We talked about his time in the Marine Corps and
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: in the Army and deployed overseas and what it did
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: to him, how it made him feel about the country,
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: and a lot more. So check it out. Check it out.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: But first, organizers say that nearly 7 million people turned
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: out to protest at more than 2,700 No Kings events
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: all across the country, which would be two million more
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: people than the last protests in June and one of
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the largest single-day demonstrations in American history. The protests were
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: almost entirely peaceful, quite joyful, and patriotic, with very few arrests.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: All this despite the White House and Republican leaders referring
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to the event as a hate-America rally and maligning the
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Americans who showed up as Hamas-loving terrorists and Soros-funded Antifa radicals.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Not entirely wrong, but.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was just us.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: LAUGHTER This bizarre line of attack continued on Monday when
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Speaker Mike Johnson and other senior House members held a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: press conference with photos of just four protest signs that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: supposedly proved their point. Here's what they said along with
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Johnson's answer to a pretty shitty question. Congratulations, they didn't
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: burn any buildings down.
• 4:40
  Speaker 7: That's a big achievement for the left.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: We got to see on display what that hate America
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: rally we've been talking about was really all about.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: The Marxists, the radicals, and the Islamists the Democratic Party
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: promoted this weekend.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: What does it say that the president of the United
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: States over the weekend released a video of him pooping
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: on the American people?
• 5:00
  Speaker 7: The president uses social media to make a point. You
• 5:03
  Speaker 7: can argue he's probably the most effective person who's ever
• 5:06
  Speaker 7: used social media for that. He is using satire to
• 5:12
  Speaker 7: make a point.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: For those of you unfamiliar with the video that the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: reporter was referring to, please enjoy. Now, uh, If you're
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: just listening to the audio of this pod, the president
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: posted a video of himself wearing a crown while flying
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a fighter jet labeled King Trump that sprayed what certainly
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: looks like shit all over the Americans who turned out
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: to exercise their right to assemble. Guys, thoughts on the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: protest and the poop video? You can sort of take
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: them one at a time. I did see that the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: New York Times described Trump as, quote, flying a jet
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: that dumps brown liquid on demonstrators.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Ah.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And I think that's actually the only accurate thing you
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: could say because it is AI. It's not clear where
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: the brown liquid came from in the fighter jet that
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Trump was flying. It would have been loaded up in advance,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a payload as it were. I just remember we worked
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: in the White House and I remember a president put
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: his feet on the desk. When that was a scandal,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: We went from brown suit to brown liquid.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in brown town. Yeah, yeah. Right, it goes.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Coming next.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: It goes brown suit, brown poop, and then the brown shirts.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: That's a real bummer. Just shitting all over Americans.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Did you see Kenny Loggins ask for it to be
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: taken down because it's an unauthorized use of danger zone?
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: As he should. Song still bangs.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: As he should. There was also the shit hit an
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: American flag, too. That was in one of the scenes.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Which is interesting because Trump said that you can't burn
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the American flag and he's going to throw you in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: jail for a year. But I guess he is the king,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: so he can poop on the American flag.
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: If it bounces off Harry Sisson's head and lands on
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: a flag.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: That was Gen Z influencer Harry Sisson.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Very nice, smart guy. Talks about politics, so the president
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: poops on him. A 23-year-old.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: He bore the brunt of the shit.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Look, it's all very stupid.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: But man, there really is this double standard where If
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: a Democrat says anything remotely critical of a subset of
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the population, these people lose their fucking minds and it
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: is completely acceptable talking about the deplorables i'm talking about
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: deplorables well that was hillary clinton doing it but anybody
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: you know you know when and she can't do anything
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: right but the uh but like you can't like anything
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: but meanwhile these guys they love making fun of people
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: from the cities they love shitting.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: On you know urban america.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: And they and literally now and it's just there and
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: you know they they clutch their pearls at anything by
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: the way they like they they that they defend anything
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: these people say in a group chat, but then if
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Graham Platner says something, it's because Democrats are, you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: will accept anything. There's just like the double standard on
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: what Republicans are allowed to say about their fellow Americans
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: versus what Democrats are allowed to say is like unending.
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I just like that Johnson could only find four fucking
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: lame photos for his press conference. Like I thought to
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: myself that when the protests were overwhelmingly peaceful, patriotic, joyful,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That they would just, I didn't think that they would
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, sorry, we were wrong. I thought they
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: would just move on to something else. But to double
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: down on it is crazy.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: They're so stupid. I mean, if you'd been to any
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: protests since, what, 2017, you knew exactly what it was
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: going to be. It was a bunch of people out
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: there having a good time, funny signs, people honking, goofy
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: costumes sometimes. And, like, I took my kids, you know, like,
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: we made it about 20 minutes because it was basically
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: nap time and it was hot. Uh, and they were like,
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: where am I? Why is everyone honking? But it was fun.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: And like, obviously that was going to be the case.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: And the most patriotic thing you can do in this
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: country is criticize your country and fight to make it better.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: And that's what everyone is doing. And speaker Johnson knows that.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: And he's just playing along with the Trump show. Love it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, you, I think you went downtown. We were, we
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: were in Hollywood with the kids. I feel like that
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: was a bit, that was the big one.
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that downtown is where it went the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: last time, a similar vibe this time. It does feel like,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and I think this does feel like what the No
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: King protest is, which it is the kind of like
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: umbrella for all the different protest movements and groups that
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: we've seen because there were, you know, anti-ice protests. There
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: were the No Kings people. There were people out there
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: for Prop 50. There were like lefty groups. There, you know,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: there's everybody handing out their pamphlets. Which I try not
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to grab because what am I doing with a pamphlet?
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Nothing.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely nothing. You know, like- Just give them your email address,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: It's funny though, because like you think of like, what
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: should Johnson say? Like not the right thing to do,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not worried about. Like what what should he be saying?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: And he should say like, if they were really trying
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to like minimize it, it wouldn't be to describe a
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: hate America rally. Then it's a big controversy and you
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: show the protest and you show what he says. People
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: can judge with their eyeballs. Uh, you would, if you
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: would say something like, uh, I'm glad they're expressing their rights.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I think what they're doing is a bit overblown, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: they have the right to protest as anybody else. And
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I wish them luck when they're done. We'll be onto
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the next thing.
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Like there's like a way you could handle it, try
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: to minimize it politically, which they're unwilling to do in
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: part because I really think like that's the bubble that
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: they're in. Like, you know, these these guys are now
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: in a little like bubble of their own, like like
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: turning each other up and spinning each other up about this.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And they're not getting good advice or good feedback.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Or good information. He did say at one point he's
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: like the irony of the whole thing is, you know,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: they were able to protest because he's not a king.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Like if he really was a king, they wouldn't be
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: able to protest. This was like, how literal are you?
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Once you get past the, uh, AI videos of shitting
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: on people and the hate America stuff, you get some Republicans, uh, and,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and some not Republicans on, on Twitter and social media
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: elsewhere saying like one, is he really a king? Is
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: he acting like a king? Because he won a, he
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: won a free and fair election. And aren't they just
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: pissed the Republicans president and they just want a Democrat
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: president instead. And then the other critique was, what was
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the point of that? What were they trying to do?
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: What would you say to people who said, what was
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the point of that?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just because someone was duly elected doesn't mean they
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: can't do an autocratic takeover faster than you could imagine or.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Slower than you could imagine. Seen that a few different
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: places throughout history. The fact that we are- And currently.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Would you suggest we wait to protest until we're not allowed?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: What's the sense in that? The whole point is to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: do it while you still can't. I wish you, I
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: like- I hope you're right, right? Like, I hope you
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: actually sincerely now have convinced yourself that this is all overblown.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: But the challenge of like dealing with a government like
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: this is your worries feel too early and then they
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: feel too late. Well, I'd rather do this too early,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: even if.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: You are right.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I do think it was, the point of it was
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people in the country who don't
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: like what's happening and are probably a little scared, you
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: see that other people came out and you're like, wait,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not alone. There's a whole bunch of people who
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: have the courage to come out and protest and It
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: went okay.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: We did it.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: It gets people excited. It also sends a message to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Trump that he's, because they can say whatever they want.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: They see the pictures. They see the numbers. They know
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: what it means. And so I think it's really important
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to have that show of protest.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: He barely won the popular vote this time, but now
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: his approval is underwater. A lot of people who disapprove
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: of what he's doing were out there on the streets.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: And it's sending a message to him and also sending
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: a message to the midterm.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: It's also like, this is not a, it's hard to
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: get our minds wrapped around. This is not just like
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: election to election anymore. This is like a now, you know,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: in facing an authoritarian takeover of the country, it's going
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: to take like a long movement that spans many elections
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and maybe many years, to be honest. And I think
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: getting the the muscle going of getting out into the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: streets and protesting when we need to is really important.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I also would say, by the way, it doesn't
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: take right now in America very much courage to go
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: out there on the street. It's completely safe for everybody
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to protest. We don't live in authoritarian regime. But people
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: needed to know that. I think that's why it was
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: good to do it because people are like, okay, phew,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you're right.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: No, totally agree. But there are acute and very serious
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: threats and warning signs about how dark this could get.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: For a lot of people, they already live in an
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: authoritarian state. If you're an undocumented person, you already live there.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Different people are having a different experience of this and
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: it's effective. If you're James Comey, you're in it, right?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Like it doesn't happen everywhere all at once. I do
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: think when people say like, what was this all for?
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: What is the point of that? First of all, it's
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: a show of this incredible amount of people that all
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: feel the same way that are part of this big movement.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: But I would say when you see that there are
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: seven to eight or whatever millions of people that are
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: willing to come out this way, very organically organized, it
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: does tell you that there's a big amount of enthusiasm
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: and energy that isn't being directed. that isn't being used
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: effectively in the days in between. There are ways this
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: big group of people can be mobilized to do more
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: than just stand up and make their voices heard during
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: a protest. There are ways we need to be activated
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to make us a political force that corporations or institutions, colleges,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: media companies, others are more nervous about or more worried about.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I do think that's the next phase.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: J.D.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Vance and Pete Hegseth spent No King's Day a few
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: hours south of here at Camp Pendleton to celebrate the
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: 250th anniversary of the Marine Corps. For some reason, they
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: decided that the celebration should include firing live artillery shells
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: over Interstate 5, one of the biggest freeways in California.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Our pal Governor Newsom had strongly objected for safety reasons
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: and decided to close a 17-mile stretch of the 5
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: during the ceremony. The vice president's office had responded to
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that by accusing Newsom of wanting people to think the
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: exercise is a dangerous show of force when it was
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: really just routine training, a statement that did not age
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: all that well. after a 155-millimeter shell exploded over the freeway,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: sending pieces of shrapnel flying onto California Highway Patrol vehicles
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: that were part of, wait for it, J.D. Vance's motorcade. Tommy,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you have any idea what the hell they were thinking?
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: I don't get this. It's like an M-777 howitzer fires
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: a 100-pound shell that can go 19 miles. Why are
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: we doing this over the highway? What's the point? Like,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: I know it's the 250th anniversary of the Marine Corps.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: It did feel like Vance was trying to send a
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: message being like, this is real America. By the way,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: we got the big guns. We got the big weapons.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Go have your little protest, but we're going to, we're
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: going to do adult shit over here with the things
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: that can kill you. And it's just like, it feels
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: like one of those stories where if roles were reversed
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: and a Democrat did this, Fox news would bury that
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: politician with this story because it's so shockingly reckless. They
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: were so shockingly arrogant about it. And then they were
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: so catastrophically wrong. If Newsom had not closed the highway,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: someone could have been killed.
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Shrapnel falling from a howitzer shell on your car at 60,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: 70 miles an hour could kill you.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Couldn't you have done some fireworks? Some, you know, shot
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: some blanks in the air?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Plenty of ways to celebrate our troops without firing live
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: artillery over an American freeway.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: My view on this is that if you're going to
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: fire missiles, you better destroy the five.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, or quit fucking around.
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: The, the, uh, the other part of that, I went
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and looked and this is the 250th anniversary, which is,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: which is a year long. They're marking it over the
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: course of year. And you can go look up all
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: their official events that they're doing across the country, which
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: did include events on the West coast. This is not
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: on that schedule, that plan series of events. There's all
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: kinds of things. There's fleet week, there's events like everywhere. Uh,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: this wasn't on it. Like, I don't know when they
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: added this 250th anniversary.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Um, event, but times talk to a, like a current, um,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Marine Corps, uh, official and also like a former, both
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: went on background and they were like highly irregular. Don't
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: know why this happened. Uh, the California highway patrol officials
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: were like extremely dangerous.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Didn't know why this, like the, the, the highway patrol
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: was like, this is a very concerning, why are we
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: doing this? And by the way, like it kind of
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: is part of this, like the, what Vance actually said
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: in his speech is kind of not gotten the attention
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: it otherwise would have because they, um, bombed a major thoroughfare,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: but the, uh, but, uh, he gives a very, you know, he,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: he like some of it is just a sort of
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the probe Marines patriotic talk. He Vance was a Marine
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: and like kind of had a lot of inside jokes
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: with everybody, which I'm sure he was excited to do.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: Uh, uh, but he does also.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Get up there and give a partisan speech about blaming
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Democrats for the shutdown and all the rest. And like
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that they are using the military for partisan purposes in
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: a way that previous presidents would never have done and
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: previous administrations wouldn't have done. and as far as we
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: can tell, they don't get any benefit out. That's what
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: they were doing with this.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Fake shit on Harry Sisson's head, real shit on the Five.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's bad, bad out there. This podcast is
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform designed
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to elevate your online presence and drive your success. Squarespace
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: provides all the tools you need to promote and get
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: paid for your services online. in one platform. Create a
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: professional website to showcase your offerings and attract clients. Whether
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you offer consultations, events, or other experiences, Squarespace can help
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you grow your business. Squarespace offers a complete library of
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: professionally designed and award-winning website templates with options for every
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: use and category. No matter where you start, your website
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: is flexible to what you need with intuitive drag and
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: drop editing, beautiful styling options, unrivaled visual design effects, on-brand
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: AI content, and more ways to list what you offer,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: no experience required. Every dream needs a domain. what I
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: always say. Squarespace Domains makes it easy to find the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: best name for your business at one fair, all-inclusive price,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: no hidden fees or add-ons required. Every Squarespace domain comes
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: with advanced privacy and security tools included to ensure your
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: domain remains online and protected. Plus, Squarespace provides everything you
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: need to bring more of your dream to life, whether
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that means building a website or adding a professional email service.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Don't wait to claim your name. Invest in your dream
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: domain today. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash crooked
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to save 10% off your first purchase of a website
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: or a domain. That's squarespace.com slash crooked. It seems like
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Trump isn't done militarizing California. Here he is on Fox
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: News this weekend talking about his plans for San Francisco
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and a few other comments that may not help him
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: beat the King allegations.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: I think they want us in San Francisco. San Francisco
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: was truly one of the great cities of the world.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: And then 15 years ago.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: It went wrong.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: It went woke.
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: But we're going to go to San Francisco. And we're
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: going to make it great. I can use the Insurrection Act.
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: 50% of the presidents almost have used that. I'm the
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: chief law enforcement officer of the United States.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: You know that, right?
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: A lot of people say, oh, he's the president. He
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: should know I'm the chief law enforcement. I'm allowed to
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: be involved in it. I didn't know it was happening,
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: but I see John Bolton just got indicted. That's a
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: good thing. He's a bad guy. I don't know what
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: he did, but he's a bad guy. Stupid kind of
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: a guy.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Actually, you know?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: First of all, it's not 50% of presidents. Half the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: presidents tonight invoked the Insurrection Act.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that one jumped out at me, too.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: That was not true.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: 15 years ago, San Francisco went woke? I'm sorry, sir.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Was it a conservative bastion in the 1960s?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? He's also not the chief
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: law enforcement officer. That is the attorney general. But I
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: guess because she is just a stooge for him, then
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: maybe he thinks he is.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: So, fine.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: But let's start at the end there with the John
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Bolton indictment, which we haven't had a chance to talk about.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Bolton has a special place on Trump's enemies list after
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Bolton published a book about his time serving as Trump's
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: national security advisor. Wasn't favorably. But this indictment lays out
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a case that seems a bit more serious than the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: charges against Comey and Tish James. According to reporting by CNN,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: when he was briefed on the case, FBI Director Kash
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Patel said helpfully, why isn't this motherfucker in jail yet?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: What do you guys make of this one, Bolton one?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: So that call from Patel was, I felt like, revealing
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: of why this one is very fraught, right? And it
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: is a bit different than the Tish James one and
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the James Comey one and others that they've been trying
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: In those cases, you had prosecutors resign or get fired
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: rather than bring charges they couldn't support. In this case,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: you had an investigation that was going on for years
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: during the Biden administration into the ways in which Bolton
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: was holding on to classified information for a book. But
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: at the same time, DOJ didn't pursue charges during the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Biden administration. Trump administration comes in, they look at it,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and then Patel's like, what the fuck's going on here?
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: We got him, right?
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: We got one of Trump's enemies. That's so exciting. So
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Bolton is saying it's a political prosecution. Seems like there's
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of truth to that, especially because there's reporting
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that some of the career prosecutors felt pressure to get
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: to an indictment more quickly. On the other hand, it
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: seems like there is a much more legitimate case here
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: than there is in those other examples of someone collecting
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: classified information. And so, you know, I talked about this
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: with Leah Lipman for Pots of America YouTube last week,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and this is really unprecedented. A president brazenly saying, let's
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: prosecute my enemies. there are going to be cases where
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: they're going after people in illegitimate ways. But what happens
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: when there is real evidence against someone and you don't
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: know whether that case would have been brought, but for
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's a political enemy. And I just
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: think that is, that is the danger of having a
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: president who's describing themselves as the chief law enforcement officer
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: and directing his underlings to prosecute political enemies.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: What do you think, Tommy? This whole thing is so weird.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, I got this one so wrong if the
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: underlying facts are true, and there's a lot of reasons
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: we shouldn't trust DOJ or Kash Patel and the FBI guys.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: But like, I assumed like John, look, for those that
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: don't know, John Bolton's like an old school warmonger. He's
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: like a Bush era warmonger, a rock war guy. I
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: assumed he had terrible policies, but that he would be
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: like scrupulous when it came to the rules and not,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: you know, bringing home classified information, not putting classified information
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: in unclassified servers or in his Gmail or whatever. But
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: it sounds like he did that all day, every day
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: when he was national security advisor for Donald Trump. The
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: New York Times wrote the following. After sending one 24-page
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: document about his time as the National Security Advisor, Mr.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: Bolton followed up with a message that read, none of
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: which we talked about, three exclamation points. One of the
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: recipients wrote back, shh, these were emails or I assume signal,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: like some sort of messaging app messages with his wife
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: and daughter.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Did he not think to use the invisible ink on iMessage?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, so it's like shockingly- Because you can't, that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: goes away. Yeah, and like, to your point, Levitt.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Like he was sending himself these notes- Presumably to help
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: himself write this book that was uncritical of Trump which
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Trump tried to block the publication of and there was
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: a big court fight and ultimately was published It seemed
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: like this had been adjudicated and that the FBI had
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: looked at all this stuff The Trump administration came back.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: They raided his house in August They found these notes
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: and printed copies of his diaries and all the shit
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: and on top of that it sounds like the Iranians
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: hacked his email and got all this stuff and then
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: started sending him threatening emails where they were suggesting that
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: they would leak the fact that they had all this
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: classified information as a form of blackmail. And so he
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: informed the FBI about the hack, but not about the
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: sensitive information within the hack, which is a little sketchy.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know. So it's all really weird. He seems
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: like he's royally fucked. He seems like he made some
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: serious mistakes. I still think it's a political prosecution, but
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: it's quite surprising.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Tehran one, Bolton zero.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Right.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: But then you think like, well, this is what makes
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: it so strange. It's like, cause they're all, these are
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: like the sort of the damning moment of like, shh,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I sent this stuff.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But he's a smart guy. He also took all this information,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: turned it into a book, which he gave to the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: administration to do a not to a nonpartisan career.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: That went through the review, not all the notes.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: No, of course.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: But, but, but like the, the problem, right. And this
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: is why it seems there's, there's some reason to believe
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: why the Biden administration didn't pursue this is a lot
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: of people take notes that they deem unclassified, that they
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: take out with them. I'm not saying what Bolton did
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: wasn't crazy, but that they take these notes. If you
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: went through the records for any of the book, the
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: materials people are collecting for books, would you find classified information?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: The answer is almost certainly yes, because every time someone
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: goes and grabs a box from Mike Pence's house or
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden's house, there's some classified material or there's stuff
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that isn't necessarily part of a classified memo or brief,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: but that is classified because of the information contained within it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And that is a dangerous thing to pursue. So like
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: you're left, like I, if we, if John Bolton is
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: being politically prosecuted for a crime he did commit, like
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be dismissed by the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: courts because he's being targeted, especially because of his criticism
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: of Trump.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, zooming out on the whole thing, what matters
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: is that you, that the government applies the law equally
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to everyone in the country, regardless of political party or
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: friendship or with the president, or if you're the, if
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you've criticized the president, right. And Biden's Justice Department. Did
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: they charge Donald Trump?
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Did they charge the president's son? Also, yes. That would
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: be an example of, okay, some people may have committed
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: some crimes, but it doesn't matter who they are. We're
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: going to charge them anyway. And if that was the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: kind of administration, then we would all be like, okay,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: here's the indictment. Let's see what happens with John Bolton,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the trial, and who knows. But you can't do that now.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Equal treatment under the law would argue that Pete Hegseth
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: should be getting prosecuted right now for putting a bunch
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: of targets we were about to bomb in Yemen into
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: a signal chat with his wife and his personal lawyer, right?
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Like clearly there is no fairness in the treatment of
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: these two individuals. That said, I'm just blown away that
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: John Bolton would put this all in email.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: It's nuts.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: And there's like, and it's like the, what you're like
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: guarding against and when you classify something as damage to
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: national security, the fact that the Iranians all places of
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: all countries hacked his email and got access to all
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: this stuff.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So bad they're gonna find out that donald trump's an
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: idiot but like we can't that's our information that's a secret.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't handle classified information like you like you did
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: tommy but just having been in the white house and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: what they told us about classified information and security clearances
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: every time there is a classified info scandal mishandling trump
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: biden uh hillary clinton Pete Hegseth. I'm always just like, what?
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Don't bring documents home. Also, if Donald Trump gets reelected,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: burn your documents, John Bolton.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: What were you thinking?
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: What were you doing?
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: What were you keeping this information?
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: The other, yeah.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Remember when Sandy Berger was sneaking stuff out with stuff
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in his socks?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like the people with like the higher
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the clearance.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: The dumber they are. Yeah.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Or they're like, they're just the most, the more reckless
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: they are with their classified information.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: Rhodes had a good line on this, which is like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: A lot of these senior national security people think that
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: they are like the key witness to history and they
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: must get it right for the books. And it's like,
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: you can see that in John Bolton. Every media appearance
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: is like that tone. Also, he's called his book The
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: Room Where It Happened. After Hamilton.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's wonderful.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: That's our cringe.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, meanwhile, Trump just commuted George Santos's sentence speaking of
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: cringe after speaking to him personally. Santos is now free
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and back on Cameo. where I assume he'll be recording
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a Lessons Learned series.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: And OnlyFans.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And OnlyFans, for some lucky viewers.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: That was a joke, but... Maybe it's a joke.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Preview.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's a joke. Who knows?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Who knows? Unfortunately, there won't be any mercy shown to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the people who were victims of Santos' fraud, because Trump
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: said he won't have to pay the hundreds of thousands
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: of dollars in restitution.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: That he owes.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: That seems fair, right?
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Look, it's also... The amount of work and effort that
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the Department of Justice puts into like putting together the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: case they got. He pled guilty. He admitted to his crimes.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: He wasn't like convicted by a jury. He admitted it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: This is why you can be angry about the Bolton prosecution.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: You know, like whether or not the facts line up
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and he actually did it right. Like this, like he
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: commuted George Santos's for what?
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: For nothing. Did he serve a lot of time?
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: No.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: It's a seven year sentence. It's like three months.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: Was he prosecuted for defrauding a disabled U.S. Navy veteran's
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: dying service dogs, GoFundMe, or was that just an allegation?
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I looked, I'm not, I believe that the, that what
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: he pleaded to was only the campaign finance related crimes.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: The living off of the money and the defrauding people
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: and also don't, he did a lot of recurring payments. Like,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: These aren't like, the money in restitution wasn't for like
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: fancy people. It's for, a lot of that money is
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: for people that were charged for these recurring donations that
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: they hadn't agreed to.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Navy veteran did say, in one of the
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: stories that he was sick to his stomach when he
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: saw that this was about to happen.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, George Smith is actually a bad guy. It sucks
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: that he's become this media darling. He's doing Fox and Friends,
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: and he's seen as funny, being rehabilitated. The guy sucks.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: If you commit a crime and you kiss Donald Trump's ass,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: good chance that you get off. If you say something
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: bad about Donald Trump and you did or did not
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: commit a crime, you're eligible for prosecution under this government.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: That's where it stands. On San Francisco, Trump's been talking
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: about this for a while, though I'm not so sure
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: that they want us their part. Unless you count Salesforce
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: founder and CEO Mark Benioff, who told the New York
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Times from aboard his private jet, that he'd welcome federalized
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: troops and that he fully supports Trump. This is a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: man who donated millions of dollars to Democrats, one of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the big Democratic donors in years past. A few days later,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the Times reported, based on internal documents that they'd seen,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Benioff is trying to get ICE to use Salesforce technology
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to meet its hiring goals. Try ZipRecruiter, ICE. The day
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: after that, Benioff apologized for asking Trump to send troops
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And said he realized they weren't necessary after all.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: Amazing.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Peak 2025. Let's just talk about Benioff for a second.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: What do you think the apology was about? That's what
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I want to know. Did you mistakenly think that there
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: should be federal troops in San Francisco? Or did you
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: just mistakenly say it and your PR people got upset?
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Well, so in that Times interview, the very end of
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the story, I'm just going to quote it. At the
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: end of the interview, he, Benioff, turned to a public
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: relations executive. He could be heard asking why her mouth
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: was wide open and if he had said anything he
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have. What about the political questions he asked?
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Too spicy?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: So I think that gets where the thing began to.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Too spicy. Too spicy.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: That's so good.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: A little spicy. A little picante.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it seems like.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: Something like.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: There's a story about downtown Los Angeles. There's a street
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: on downtown Los Angeles where... A bunch of fruit vendors
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: that have fruit they haven't sold, but they don't want
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: to pay the commercial dumping fee, they just pour it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: on the ground. They just go, they open their trucks,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: they dump it on the ground. It's a huge problem
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: because it piles up over the week. The trash comes
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: once a week. Big rats. Big rats downtown.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I imagine a lot of flies too, Chris.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And so this becomes a political.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Problem, right?
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And you have like the mayor has to get involved
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and the city council has to get involved and they're
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: calling sanitation and they're calling the police and they're doing patrols.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: This just happened a couple weeks ago. But it was
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: getting worse and worse for a long time. So you
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: get the press in there. You get a controversy. You
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: get people to care about it. Where are the cops?
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Where's sanitation? Who's responsible for this? Because it's politics, right?
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: This is a new problem. You're going to have to
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: be punitive. You're going to have to be reparative. You're
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: going to figure out what to do, right? But like
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: all of these guys that like are on their private jets,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: like they don't want to do politics, right? They don't
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: want to persuade people in San Francisco that they need
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: more policing or that they need to change policies or
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: they've been too lenient on whatever, on drug abuse or
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: on street homelessness, right? They just want Donald Trump, big daddy,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: to come in and solve it. But what happens when
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Benioff goes out there and says this? Well, he hears
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: about it from maybe his own staff. He hears about
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: it from politicians he works with, right? Because he's a
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: local leader and his company works closely with.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: The government, right?
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: What happens is politics erupts all around him. And then
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, politics prevails. And he's like, oh, no, no, no,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want Donald Trump to come in and solve
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: all my problems because I talk to the people that
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: are actually part of making this decision.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And also, there's no evidence at all that any of
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: these National Guard deployments have solved any problem anywhere. In fact,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: San Francisco has a relatively new mayor in Daniel Lurie
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: who has been doing a great job and actually sort of,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: you know, handling their crime problem. And again, if it
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: flares up, maybe you want the local police to sort
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: of help crack down as opposed to National Guard troops who,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: when they went to D.C. and other places, were literally
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: just cleaning up trash and taking pictures with tourists.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure Mark Benioff lives in Hawaii.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's why he didn't realize that San Francisco has
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: started turning itself around. I mean, all the rich people
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in San Francisco live in an area called Billionaire's Row,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: which is a beautiful place in like Pack Heights where
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you can see the Golden Gate Bridge.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: And they're all mad about- These are your former neighbors.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: These are my former neighbors. I lived in an eight-story
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: building in a one-bedroom apartment. But yes, I was close
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: to them. I was east of them. But they're all
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: mad about downtown because there's a serious homeless problem and
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: there's like really horrible open-air drug use, et cetera. But
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: the National Guard going to solve that? Are they going
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: to be policing fentanyl use in the tenderloin? Like, I
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: don't think that's the way this is going to go down. Really,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: he's just like picking cities now and sending them. And
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: then he's doing the whole Insurrection Act thing. So it's like,
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, the Ninth Circuit ruled on Monday
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: that Trump can deploy the National Guard to Portland over
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: the governor's objections. You got a different ruling in the
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Seventh Circuit about Chicago. So that's going to the Supreme Court.
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: But I think the Trump people are thinking, like, whatever
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: the Supreme Court rules, we think they're going to rule
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: for us. But even if they rule against us, then
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: we'll just use the Insurrection Act. And we'll get them
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: there anyway. So either way, they're getting troops in the cities.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: What will they be doing there? What will they be helping?
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: There's just no plan.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: There's nothing realistic about what they would actually do to
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: help solve anyone's problems. It's just, I think, a show
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: of force to fucking scare people.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: Snatching nitrous balloons in Dolores Park. Probably arresting some tech
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: guys for talking about their equity loudly at the bar.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, that should be a crime. This is what
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: we need to deploy National Guard to cities for if
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: there's a Democratic president someday. So no word yet on
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: whether ICE is going to shell out for Salesforce, but
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: we do know that they are spending a ton on
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: new tech. The Washington Post reported on Friday that the
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: agency is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on technology upgrades,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: including an iris scanning app. That would be your eye.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: New surveillance drones. and software that allows them to hack
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: into people's phones or track their location without a warrant.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: Lovely.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Remember that Trump's bill earmarked $ 170 billion for border and
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: immigration operations. So they got a lot of money to
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: play with here. $ 172 million of which they're apparently using
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to buy two brand new Gulfstream jets for Kristi Noem.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Noem said on Monday that the planes are, quote, necessary
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: for the mission of the Coast Guard, which I guess
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: is to, like, transport her ass around.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: On private planes.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: That's a boat thing.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: That's a boat.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Hey, come on. That can't be right. That's a boat thing.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Which is under DHS for some reason. I think the
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: worst part.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Because of 9-11.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: So I think the worst part about the story is
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: that as I was reading through it a couple of times,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: like DHS and ICE refused to even say when asked
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: by members of Congress or reporters that they won't hack
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: into the phones of American citizens without a warrant. Like,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Which leads you to wonder, how are any of us
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to know that our government isn't spying on everything
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: that we say?
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: And they could be. I mean, this is the scariest
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: part of them designating Antifa as a terrorist organization because
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: it allows you to unlock all these authorities to spy
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: on people and do things that are just extra, that
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: are not constitutional. And, you know, I think there was
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: a point in time when spying was a time and
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: labor intensive thing. You like wiretap a house. You have
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: to record everything the person's saying. someone transcribe it, you'd
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: like piece it together. Now it's all bulk collection and
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: it's all searched with AI.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: And it's very- Thank you, Sam Alton, again.
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, again, thank you, tech. And it's just very scary
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: to think what, you know, DHS with certain authorities and
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: certain technologies and a big Palantir contract could do. Like
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: we could all be swept up in this stuff.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also like so many of these actions that
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration is taking, like pretty quickly get challenged
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: in court. And this is like, who, who's going to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: challenge it in court if we don't know that they're
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: spying on us? Like, I don't know what, like, I
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: know Congress is trying, but you get some Democrats asked, like,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: hopefully maybe you get people like your Rand Pauls and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: your Thomas Massys that are concerned about this. But like,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: what the fuck?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: In the examples where like, they've grabbed somebody during an
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: ICE protest and they said, this person assaulted a police
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: officer and was impeding an investigation. And so we've charged
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: them with a felony. And then or we're planning to
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: charge them with a fine. That's why we grabbed them.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: That's why they've been in jail for three days or
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: whatever it may be. And then they just quietly drop it, right?
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Because they can't back up the evidence. So they scare people,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: make people feel afraid to be at these protests. And
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: then when they have to present the evidence to a judge,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: it all falls apart. Like what happens when they start
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: unleashing this kind of technology on a massive scale? and
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: sweeping a bunch of people up? Does it ultimately hold
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: up at some point? Human beings have to become involved
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: and make an argument in front of a judge for now.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: But in the meantime, a lot of people are going
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: to be scared. A lot of people get swept up
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: on it if they kind of take it to its
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: logical conclusion. I remember when in my previous relationship, Ronan
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: was a journalist and he was dealing with companies like
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Black Cube and others that were developing these technologies to
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: hack into people's phones. And I remember him talking about
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: how dangerous it would be If this became used by
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: law enforcement in the United States, that foreign autocratic governments
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: were already using it, what happens if it comes here?
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: And I remember feeling like, boy, that's far-fetched.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Well, and apparently the Biden administration had a contract with
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: this company that can hack into your phone without you knowing.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And when it came to light and there were like
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: civil libertarian concerns about it, they like canceled the contract
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: back in like 21 or 22. And of course, the
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Trump administration probably came to office and was like, what?
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: You canceled the contract?
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: This is amazing. We want this.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You want this in the hands of Kristi Noem and
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Tom Homan.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: This proliferation of basically spyware for hire is one of
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: the scary things that's happened in the last decade. There's
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: this great group in Toronto called the Citizen Lab where
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: they just, you know, try to help people who have
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: been attacked. But like basically it's a bunch of the
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: industry is really prevalent in Israel and it's a bunch
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: of ex-Massad, ex-unit 8200s, intel people who then go into
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: private service and basically recreate the tools available to state
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: actors and sell them to the worst regimes on the planet.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: And they use them. They claim it's been the name
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: of terrorism, but they go after journalists, dissidents, critics, Jamal Khashoggi, right?
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: Like that's what's happening out there. But the scary piece
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: of this for us Americans is that DHS has been
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: fully politicized. Corey Lewandowski, Trump's on-again, off-again campaign manager, is
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: reportedly the shadow secretary of Homeland Security, maybe also dating
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: Kristi Noem. All these professionals and career people who would
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: say no are getting pushed out. Lawyers are getting pushed out.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Inspectors General are getting pushed out. All the people that
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: would put the brakes on things that are unconstitutional or
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: illegal are no longer in the building in a lot
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: of cases. And like, God help us if.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: You know, Mark Benioff and a lot of the Silicon
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Valley geniuses, you know, where that could be really useful
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: is coming up with a technology to block this kind
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of spyware for people. That would be a useful thing
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: for America.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Now you sound like the Antichrist.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's an off button.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Me and Greta.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I think you just, you turn your phone off. I
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: think that's a good place to start.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thrown in the river. That's fine. Pate
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: of America is brought to you by Rocket Money. Fall
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: holiday expenses like Halloween costumes, decorations, and weekend trips may
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: seem small, but they can quickly drain your wallet. Rocket
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Money lets you know what's safe to spend on those
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: seasonal splurges. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Their dashboard lays out your total financial picture, including bill
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: due dates and paydays, in a way that's easy to digest.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: past spending. If you've got a goal you'd like to
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: save for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts to find
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the best time each month to put extra money aside,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: over budget, and even when you're doing a good job.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Rocket Money has saved users over $ 2. 5 billion, including over
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: $ 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: save up to $ 740 a year when they use all
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: slash crooked today. That's rocketmoney.com slash crooked. rocketmoney.com slash crooked.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: The peace president is also very busy bringing peace to
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: our southern neighbors, whether they like it or not. He
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: recently ordered the 6th and 7th known military strikes on
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: boats in the Caribbean Sea, allegedly carrying drugs. The strikes
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: occurred last Thursday and Friday, although we only found out
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: about the 7th strike after Pete Hegseth tweeted about it
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: on Sunday. Trump announced on Saturday that two survivors of
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Thursday's strike are being repatriated back to their home countries,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Ecuador and Colombia, for, quote, detention and prosecution. On Saturday,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Colombian President Gustavo Petro posted on Twitter that an attack
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: in September had killed an innocent Colombian fisherman in Colombian
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: waters and accused Trump of murder. Trump then accused Petro
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: of being a, quote, illegal drug dealer with a fresh
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: mouth toward America. A fresh mouth. He said he would
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: cut off aid to Colombia, subject them to new tariffs
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: and seem to threaten an invasion. Meanwhile, huge amounts of
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: American military personnel and equipment are massing in the Caribbean
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: as Trump continues to hint at some kind of offensive
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: against mainland Venezuela. Tommy, what's the situation down there right now?
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Is this saber rattling? Is this actual prep for war?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Like what the fuck are they all thinking?
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: I'm really, really scared about what's happening with respect to Venezuela.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: I saw a paper from CSIS the other day that
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: said more than 10% of all deployed US naval assets
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: are currently located in the Southern Command area of responsibility.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: So remember, we've all been talking for like a decade
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: that China was the real threat and dealing with them
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: in the Pacific, that was the threat we had to counter.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: But 10% of naval assets are in the Caribbean for Venezuela.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: That's pretty disconcerting. And just think about the policy that
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: We just talked about, um, what the, the bombing of
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: these boats that are allegedly narco traffickers. So the people
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: on these boats are so dangerous and such a threat
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: to the United States that the U S military can
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: kill them without a trial, without charging them with anything.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: So extrajudicial murder. But when we capture them, we return
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: them to the countries they came from. We don't bring
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: them to the United States to prosecute them. That doesn't,
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: that doesn't suggest a, uh, an administration that is, um,
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: Confident in the legality of what it's doing.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard of a legal justification yet for this,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: except for Marco Rubio saying, well, we've designated Tren de
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Aragua as terrorist organization. But like the U.S. government designates
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: a foreign organization as a terrorist organization that does not
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: then give you the right to kill them. It's suddenly
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a war. It does give you a right to freeze
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: finances and gives you some other tools, but that doesn't
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: give you the right to do extrajudicial killings.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Well, their justification is that because they've described the drug
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: cartels as terrorist non-state actors, the members of those cartels
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: are unlawful combatants, which they can kill at any time,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I guess anywhere on earth.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Which they also can't do because Congress did not authorize
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: that action. The reason that Al Qaeda fell under that
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: is because Congress authorized the action.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think they should be doing it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying. It's even crazier.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: It's not justified. But forget not being able to prosecute them.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't these people have information that you want? You claim
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: that these are the most dangerous people on earth, that
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: risk of killing 25,000. This one boat could kill 25,000 Americans.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: You don't want to ask a couple questions?
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: What do you report to?
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: I think the broader challenge is like, first of all,
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: they're making up this policy rationale because fentanyl is not
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: produced in Venezuela. It is chemicals from China. They get
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: shipped to Mexico. They get turned into fentanyl there. They
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: come to the United States. That's how it goes. That's
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: how it works. Everyone knows that. Cocaine is a problem
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: in Southern Colombia. Yeah, but like, yeah, like 60% of
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: cocaine I think is produced in Colombia. A lot of
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: it goes through Ecuador, maybe 10 to 13% of global.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Cocaine supply goes through Venezuela.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: According to the State Department. A lot of demand in Mar-a-Lago.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: A lot of demand in Mar-a-Lago. What this is, is
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: an ideological desire to take out Nicolas Maduro, the president
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: of Venezuela. And like, let's just be clear, he's a
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: bad guy. He's a left-wing autocrat. He lost the last
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: election and then he stole it. Like, I'm not a
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Maduro fan. But again, you have 10% of naval assets
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: deployed to the Caribbean. You've got the president having the CIA,
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: he signed off on the CIA taking covert action in
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: Venezuela to do we don't really know what. You've got
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: the military practicing operations 90 miles off the coast of Venezuela,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: and all of Venezuela, the government, the people are preparing
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: for war. They think there's going to be an invasion.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: And if that happens, Venezuela's a big-ass place. It's the
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: size of France and Germany combined. They have pretty real deal,
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: pretty modern Russian air defense systems along the coastline. Like,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: Everything about this is so insane to me. But these
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: guys like Trump is like every like 10 flashing red
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: lights right now that he wants a conflict with Venezuela.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know who else wasn't a good guy
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: who didn't have a lot of fans in America? Saddam Hussein.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Was that a good idea? For Kim Jong-un.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: To take him out?
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: Vladimir Putin.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Also, are we drawing Colombia into this too now? Because
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: he's a lefty president that they don't like?
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Well, Petro was mean to Trump when he was at
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: the UN. He said something about Palestinian rights. So we
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: kicked him out of the country. And now I guess
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: we're threatening them.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also worry that one lesson Trump takes away
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: from Iraq and other conflicts is as long as there
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: are no American- boots on the ground, you can really
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: get away with whatever. The American people don't see it
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: as a war unless there are American troops on the ground.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: And so he thinks that he can escalate and escalate.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden we're in some kind
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: of a bombing campaign against Venezuela and we're getting deeper
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: and deeper into this conflict, but he doesn't worry about
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: the political ramifications of it because he is afraid of
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: putting troops on the ground.
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I think the boots on the ground, he probably knows
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: would be crazy. I don't think airstrikes is off the table.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I think it's probably pretty likely. I mean, he keeps threatening, like,
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: now we're going to take out the land crossings, which
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: means bombing Venezuela proper. I've talked to people who worked
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: in the first Trump term who said, like, it really
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: seemed like he wanted to take out Maduro then. And
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: when he says, like, we should have taken the oil,
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: he sincerely believes that. And Venezuela's got a ton of
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: oil reserves. And I think they think that they could
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: take out Maduro, maybe install some more, you know, US-friendly
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: dictator in there, and then things will be better. But
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: I think that's insane. I think it's very likely that
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: if you take out Maduro, there will be power struggles
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: and civil war and the migration crisis that makes the
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: one we've seen to date from Venezuela look pretty tame.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure we'll welcome everyone who comes from Venezuela
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: and potentially Colombia, right?
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, letting the CIA stretch some old muscles.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Right. I know.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: A South American coup?
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: John Bolton would be like, I fucked this up. This
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: is what I'm made for. Should have stuck around, I know.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: No longer in the room where it happened.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Not every country in Latin America is at odds with
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration. One place where the relationship is going swimmingly,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, is Bukele's El Salvador.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: On Sunday, the Washington Post revealed that in order to
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: gain access to Seacott, the Salvadoran torture dungeon, where the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: administration ultimately sent hundreds of migrants, including Kilmer Abrego Garcia
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: and Andre Ramiro, Marco Rubio promised Bukele that the Justice
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Department would, per the Post headline, betray U.S. informants. Tommy,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: you and Ben covered this story on Pod Save the World.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: You've talked about it here before, too. But like any
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: new details from the Washington Post Rubio story that you
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: think are worth mentioning?
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think the very, very quick backstory
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: is in 2019, Trump set up this effort called Joint
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: Task Force Vulcan, which is this law enforcement initiative that
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: was designed to to take down MS-13. As part of that,
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: they arrested a bunch of people from El Salvador, brought
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: them to the U.S., and were prosecuting them. Fast forward
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: to Trump 2.0, and they cut this deal with Nayib Bukele,
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: who calls himself the world's coolest dictator, who's the president
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: of El Salvador, where the U.S. gets the ability to
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: send these men, Venezuelan men mostly, to this transnational gulag
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: called Sukkot. And in exchange, Bukele wanted back some of
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: these guys we arrested, the U.S. arrested as part of
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: a joint task force Vulcan from the United States. And
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: it all speaks to the fact that Bukele's government cut
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: deals with the gangs to reduce crime. Basically, he cut
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: deals with these gangs. Some of his people cut deals
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: with where they said, kill who you want to kill,
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: but just hide the bodies better. So it's not a
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: public thing. So it's not a political issue. And the
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: gangs did in political favors. And what we learned in
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: this post report was that Rubio personally assured Bukele that
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: the US would hand over MS-13 leaders even ones that
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: we'd cut deals with to get information. So like immunity
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: for information or some sort of like treatment for information.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: So Rubio just like undercut people that agreed to work
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: with the United States.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: And this is not just about like, oh, we should
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: have been nicer to the gang members who cut deals
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: with us and were informants. Donald Trump has reliably informed
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: us for two administrations now that MS-13 is incredibly dangerous.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: and that we've got a, and they're, they're walking among
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: us and they're, you know, they're murdering Americans. And so
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: we've got to crack down on MS-13. So what do
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: we do? We have a justice department and FBI trying
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to build cases against MS-13, try to flip MS-13 members
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: so that they can give them information that would help them,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of capture other MS-13 members. And instead
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: we make a deal with a government that has let
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: MS-13 members roam free and kill people quietly in their
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: country and just sort of ruin the cases that all
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: of the law enforcement officials in the United States spent
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: years building against MS-13 with these informants.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: For what?
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So we could send them to the gulag where they
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: then were sent back to Venezuela after that? Like this
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: was for nothing. So they could just have like snuff films.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: of people being tortured and scare everyone about the, about Seacott.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Like there was no benefit to any of this.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: There was a 60 Minutes did a story about this
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: over the weekend of what it was like being inside
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: the Department of Justice while this was all unfolding. And
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: you had this incredible amount of pressure to get these
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: planes into the air, which included lying at the, if
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: not just misleading a judge about what was happening inside.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: in real time, all because it was so urgent to
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: get these planes off the ground as quickly.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: Planes of Venezuelan men.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Planes of Venezuelan men to El Salvador off the ground
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: as quickly as possible. And it all came to what?
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Just nothing.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Nothing. It just speaks to like, look, so what we
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: just talked about was Trump threatening to invade or, you know,
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: sanction leftist leaders in Latin America and his right-wing buddies,
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: Bukele and uh, Javier Malay in Argentina, people go to
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: CPAC and kiss his ass and are willing to do
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: his bidding on immigration. They get favors, they get, uh,
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: you know, gang members who could turn on them, return
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: to them. They get 20 to $ 40 billion bailouts if
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: you're an Argentinian.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: So it's a league of autocrats.
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: Completely personalized foreign policy.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: The illusion of order and control. Um, and in reality,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: it's just a corruption racket and fuck everyone else. You
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: don't really, you don't get real protection. You just get, uh,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: you know, Trump and Bukele and everyone's having the illusion
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: that they are tough on crime.
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, and look, Bukele did like reduce the homicide rate,
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: but he did it by like indiscriminately throwing thousands of
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: thousands of people in jail without charge, many of whom
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: did absolutely nothing wrong. And they're just rotting in hell now. Yeah.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: And apparently also letting gangs just kill people, but quietly
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: so that we don't have to report it.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: And letting gang leaders walk free if they help him politically.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about one word Trump has so far failed
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: to resolve. The Friday meeting between Trump and Ukrainian President
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Vladimir Zelensky was apparently not as, quote, cordial as Trump claimed.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: The Financial Times called the meeting volatile. The Washington Post
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: tense and CNN acrimonious. But every outlet confirmed that Trump
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: pressured Zelensky to give up a critical region, the Donbass,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: to end the war as quickly as possible. Coincidence of
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: all coincidences, just a day earlier, Trump had spoken with
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Russia's Vladimir Putin, who again demanded part of the Ukrainian territory.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: So in about a month, Trump went from saying that
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Ukraine is, quote, in a position to fight and win
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: all of Ukraine back in its original form and pondering
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: whether to contribute U.S. Tomahawk missiles to telling reporters on
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Monday that while Ukraine could win the war, he doesn't
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: think they will. Tommy, Trump is taking both sides of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: this one a lot, but it's pretty clear he's more
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: easily swayed by Putin than by Zelensky, or at the
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: very least, the last person he talks to. What do
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: you think that's about? Is it more he loves the autocrats,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: or is there something else going on where he's just.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know, man. The more times this happens, my
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: head goes to straight up 2017, it's Mueller time conspiracies
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: because there's just no making sense of this. Oh, right, yeah. Yeah.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: My mind goes to he's an idiot who I know
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: he's a feral genius at marketing and communication, but he's
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: an idiot when it comes to the last person I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: talk to I'm persuaded by and Putin's going to butter
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: me up and say this to me and so I
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: buy the talking points and then I'm going to be
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: pissed at Zelensky.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: But like he just had the Alaska summit in August. Um,
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: I think going into the Alaska summit, Steve Wyckoff, his
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: like Swiss army knife golf buddy turned diplomat had met
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: with Putin and came away with a totally inaccurate impression
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: of Putin's policies. Like he thought he, Putin was ready
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: to make a bunch of concessions that didn't happen. So
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: then they go to the meeting in Alaska and Putin
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: gives on nothing. apparently spent like two hours lecturing Trump
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: about like, you know, 17th century Ukrainian history and all
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: the bullshit Putin does all the time. And Trump nearly
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: walked out of that meeting and then canceled the lunch
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: and left early. And like to save face, had to
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: pretend that things went okay, but it was disastrous and
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: he was angry. And that was why he started sort
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: of talking up the Ukrainian side afterwards and like saying like,
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: oh yes, we could support a security guarantee if it
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: comes from Europe and we could be a part of
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: that in some sense, or at least sell them weapons.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: And then he set up a bunch of fake, like
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: in two weeks deadlines, like I'll let you know in
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: two weeks if Putin's tapping me along or not or
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: whatever it was. And so like nothing happened, nothing happened.
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: And then in the lead up to this meeting, there
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: was all this conversation about giving Ukraine Tomahawk missiles. And
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: Trump played along with that only to just let one
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: phone call completely change his mind. Like, I don't, I
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: just don't get it.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if, I mean, Putin probably knows that
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: that meeting in Alaska did not go well, or at
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: least his advisors do. And maybe they or he came
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: up with a new strategy to deal with Trump. It's
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: like next time instead of lecturing him about the history
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: of Ukraine, maybe you just say, hey, I want this
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: war over too. And I just want a little land
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: that we won fair and square. And then I want
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: to give them the rest. And I don't know. I
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: think Trump is easily, easily persuaded.
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: He's easily persuaded. He's also sent out there. He's also
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: directed and not, not in a certain nefarious way. He's
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: directed by his staff about what he's meant to be
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: doing in this moment.
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: What was it? You can make sense of a lot
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: of what's happened since he's become president a second time.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: If you take out this strange, uh, uh, aberration of
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: him suddenly becoming, uh, basically, uh, a neoconservative for like what,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: like two weeks?
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: On Iran.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: No, on Ukraine when he goes and he says, actually,
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: I think Ukraine could win and we're going to get
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: behind them, right? Like you can take that out. And
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: then he would have been like, you know, like he's valueless.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: He doesn't care that Putin is the invader. He accepts
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: the Putin language on like what happened here and that
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: he accepts that this is some sort of longstanding conflict
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: that could only be resolved by both sides making concession because,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: oh my God, they hate each other. And this is,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be the one to end it. There
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: was just this strange moment where he suddenly sounded correct
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: and said the right things according to all the kind
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: of foreign policy establishment types. And you have to wonder, like,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: did someone say, hey, you know, we're trying to get
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: something in these negotiations right now. Can you go out
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: there and, you know, signal that you'd be willing to
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: be harder on Russia? And he only has two set.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: He only goes on, you know, he doesn't have he's
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: not a subtle man, but you can't make sense of
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: it because he's not a sensible person.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the eighth war Trump claims to have resolved briefly
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: roared back to life on Sunday. Israel cut off aid
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: to Gaza for the day and launched a series of
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: deadly airstrikes after saying two of their soldiers were killed.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Although Hamas denied involvement, both sides accused the other of
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: violating the ceasefire. But as of this recording, both also
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: maintained their commitment to the deal, with aid reportedly flowing
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: again on Monday. Vice President J.D. Vance is also expected
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: in Israel on Tuesday after Trump's co-Peace Prize winners, Steve
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Witkoff and Jared Kushner, spoke with Netanyahu in Israel on Monday.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: What's your sense of the fragility or strength of the deal, Tommy?
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's a big deal?
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: It's hard to say. Look, I think my fear is
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: that Trump will primarily view success as being getting the
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: hostages back, and that's all he'll care about. And so
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: if once a week the Israelis breach the deal, bomb
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: some targets in Gaza, restrict aid, refuse to open the
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: Rafah crossing, he might just not care about that. And again,
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: this is what's been so frustrating about the coverage of
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: this deal generally. I give him credit for doing a ceasefire,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: getting a ceasefire and a hostage release. Nothing about this
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: is a permanent issue. you know, rethinking of governance in Gaza, nothing,
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: none of this about Palestinian determination. Um, there is nothing
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: about the next generation of leaders for the Palestinian people. Um,
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: it was just this little narrow thing, which is a
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: big and important piece of it. But Gaza reconstruction is
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: going to be a generational project. It hasn't even, the
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: war is not really ended. The war is not over
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: and figuring out how that next part can begin, uh,
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: is going to require like Hamas disarming, some sort of
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: stability force, like all these other steps. And it's just,
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: it's kind of bumping along.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: You know, it certainly hasn't been a 3000 year peace
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: as he claimed it would be. It wasn't even what,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: like maybe three days. And so it's like, is it
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: a ceasefire at this point? It's kind of a secession
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: of hostilities you hope holds. But it's like Trump's ego
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: then gets wrapped up in the fact that he considers
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: himself a peacemaker and he looks at any ways in
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: which that's violated as like an ego wound to him.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: So when, when there are the videos of Hamas killing
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: people inside of Gaza, he def defends it in a
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: deeply strange way.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: They go there.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Those are criminals.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: So don't worry about that.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, until he realizes it's getting to the point where
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: it's reflecting poorly on him. And then he says, Oh,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: we're going to actually eradicate Hamas if they, uh, break
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: the ceasefire. And so like he, like everybody dealing with
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Trump knows that it's about, it's about how it looks
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: to him about him.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: And, and so like, then Yahoo will, will suck up
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: to him and figure out a way to try to
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: make him think it's Hamas's fault if it falls apart.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: By the way, they're like, you know, like Israel's claiming
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: that Hamas is breaking the ceasefire. Israel, Hamas is going
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: to claim Israel's breaking the ceasefire. Meanwhile, like it's not
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: a peace deal because it's just a, a brief ceasefire
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: because the, the fundamental conflict in the region remains. And
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: by the way, in the West bank, things are getting
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: worse in real time as well.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you, What Trump wants more than
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: anything else is for this conflict to just go away.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: He doesn't care about peace. He cares about, like you said,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the perception of peace. Like that's all he cares about.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: And honestly, that's the same with Ukraine. He just wants
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: the war over. He doesn't care if the Ukrainians are screwed.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: He just wants the fucking hostilities to end, or at
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: least he can say that he helped end them. This
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: is all he really wants.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: He wants a Nobel Prize. He wants to be called
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: the peacemaker. He wants us to all buy his line about,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: you know, stopping eight wars, even though it's all made up.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: And it's like, who's going to make deals with the
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: United States or let the United States broker deals when
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Trump's word is, you know, worth shit? Because, like, he
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: only wants to get through the next news cycle and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: get a few good headlines.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: Like, no one. All right.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: When we come back from the break, you'll hear Tommy's
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: conversation with Maine Senate candidate Graham Plattner. But two quick
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: reminders before we do that. Alex Wagner's great new series,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Runaway Country, goes live this Thursday, October 23rd. This show
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: is all about talking to the regular Americans who are
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: actually being affected by the Trump Insanity. It's excellent. Very
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: excited for everyone to hear it. Make sure you subscribe
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Also,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: love its special series, Bravo America, about how reality TV
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: drives our culture and our politics. Drops every Tuesday in
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: the Love It or Leave It feed. Who'd you get
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: this week?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I talked to Parvati Shallow, one of the great Survivor
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: players of all time. She was raised on a hippie commune,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: becomes one of the most renowned villains of reality television,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: in part because... She was a smart woman, which was enraging.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: But she talks about what it's like to be seen
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: as a villain. She talks about what it was like
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: to be a woman in reality TV as reality TV
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: and our culture started being more honest about the way
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: women were being treated on and off screen. It was
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: like a fascinating conversation, which is out right now.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Check it out on the Love It or Leave It
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: feed or on YouTube. Pod Save America is brought to
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: you by ZipRecruiter. The holidays are upon us and businesses
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: are hiring for seasonal roles. Everything from haunted corn maze
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: workers to lead elves and real bearded Santas to snowplow drivers.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: That means that people with certain skills, experience, or even
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: a special license are in high demand and not easy
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: to find. Whether you're hiring for one of these roles
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: or any other role, the best way to find the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: perfect match for your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Crooked.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to find top talent so
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: you don't waste time or money. You can find out
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: right away how many job seekers in your area are
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: qualified for your role. With ZipRecruiter's advanced resume database, you
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: can instantly unlock top candidates' contact info. No wonder ZipRecruiter's
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: the number one rated hiring site based on G2. We've
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: used ZipRecruiter here at Cricket, and boy, has it helped.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: Really helps us find great people.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Get a lot of resumes. Sorting through resumes is... Yeah,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: that's right. And that's why you need ZipRecruiter. It can
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: help you just bring the best resumes to the top.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: and then does some work for you, and your life's easier.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your role, seasonal
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: or otherwise. Four out of five employers who post on
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Right now,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Crooked. Again,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Crooked. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: My guest today is a veteran oyster farmer and Maine
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Senate candidate, Graham Platner.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Graham, great to see you.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Tommy. Thanks for having me here.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Thank you for doing the show and thank you for
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: bearing with 15 minutes of Amazon web service, Amazon related
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: tech problems at the jump here. It's been very fun.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jeff Bezos.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: I want to cover a bunch of stuff with you.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: But first I just wanted to ask you about this
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: kind of flurry of news reports about Reddit posts you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: made between 2009 and 2021. There's an Axios headline this
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: past week that described the the week for you guys
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: is a Bernie back main Senate candidate melts down. So
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: maybe by the end of the conversation, we can fact
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: check that headline too. And you tell me if, if
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: that's how you feel, um, the, the, yeah, Axios, you know, they, they, uh,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: summon it all up for you, uh, primary in June.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: So the first Reddit post I wanted to ask you about, um,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: is from 2013. So someone wrote on Reddit, what is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: one question you've always wanted to ask someone of another race?
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: You responded. Why don't black people tip? I work as
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: a bartender. And it always amazes me how solid the
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: stereotype is every now and again, a black patron will
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: leave a 15 to 20% tip, but usually it is
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: between zero and 5%. There's got to be a reason
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: behind it. What is it? How did you feel rereading
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: that post? And what's your response to people who hear
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: that and think that is like textbook racism and it's offensive?
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, one, I was legitimately asking the question. I mean,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: that was the point of the thread was to ask
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: the question. Amusingly enough, I remember this time when I
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: had first started bartending and then I had a conversation
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: with a friend of mine who was black, who was
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: a bartender, who did a great job of walking me
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: through structural injustice and the fact of feelings of lack
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: of agency. There were a whole bunch of reasons. And
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: after that, I was like, oh, yeah, that makes absolutely
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: perfect sense. It was certainly not meant as a malicious thing.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: I was asking the question because that was kind of
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: the point of the thread, actually.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: So you're, so you're saying that this is not something
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: that you were shit posting about. This was not something
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: that you felt it wasn't meant to be a commentary.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: It was, it was a question you were sincerely asking
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: on a Reddit thread because you thought there might be
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: some sort of like cultural explanation or something. Is that
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: what you're saying?
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I, like there was a, I grew up
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: in Maine. I had never bartended before. I was living
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: in Washington, DC. Um, and I, I mean, I honestly, I've,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: I reread a lot of the comments for obvious reasons.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: Many of them I'm like, Oh God, that one, I
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: must say, like, I mean, I was legitimately curious. Um,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: and it was not, uh, certainly not meant in any
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: malicious way. Um, and I got an answer soon afterwards
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: in reality from an actual person, but.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: Got it. Okay. So another one that's gotten a lot
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: of attention is there were posts from 2013 where it
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: seemed like you were playing down the challenges faced by
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: members of the military who were trying to report sexual
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: assault allegations. The first post was, in today's current climate,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: when every whisper of a misplaced hand brings down a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: feature-length film, anyone who actually thinks the military is purposely
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: covering up rape to save a career of some goddamn
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: captain is clearly both an idiot and junior enough in
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: rancor or life experience to think it matters. And then
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: there was another post where you suggested that the way
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: to avoid getting sexually assaulted was not to get blacked
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: out drunk. Again, what do you say to someone who
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: hears those comments and feels like it's minimizing a very
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: serious issue? Problem, if not suggesting that the victims are
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: the ones to blame for sexual assault.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they would be correct in that. I mean,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was talking about. At this point,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: I had just gotten out of the infantry. It's important.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: My time in the service was in the infantry. At
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: that point, it was an all-male branch. I had only
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: recently separated, and my frame of reference was that world.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: And that was not a world in which, frankly, I
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: had— I had very little interaction with women in the service.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: Very soon after, actually, this timeframe, when I started going
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: to college, I became very close friends with a number
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: of vets, female vets at George Washington, and all of
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: them had a story. And I very quickly changed my tune.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: I think you'll find even not that much later in
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: my Reddit history, me acknowledging that. That was a moment
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: in time in which I had not yet... been exposed
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: to to things. And I had a opinion or I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: had thoughts that were colored by my experience in the service,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: but my experience in the service was quite, was frankly limited. Um,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: and I'm, I mean, that's when I reread those, I,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: I see me not knowing what.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: The Concern with the comments you made, I think, is
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: a political one, right? Like, as you know better than anyone,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: Maine is a really important Senate race. And Democrats are
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: worried that if you're the nominee, like Susan Collins or
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: the many super PACs that support Republicans, will spend $ 50 million,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: $ 100 million on negative ads featuring a bunch of these
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: Reddit posts. There's ones where you call yourself a communist.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: There's ones where you call police officers bastards. There's one
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: where you say that rural white Americans actually are racist
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: and stupid. What do you say to that? And how
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: do you combat that?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, first, I mean, those were definitely, that
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: was me trying to get a rise out of people
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: on the internet. Those are not reflective of my, those
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: weren't even reflective of my opinions back then. I would
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: say that it is a little rich hearing about this
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: right now when just last week there was a pro
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: Susan Collins ad run with Janet Mills in it saying
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: nice things about her. Like it is a, And I also,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: quite frankly, think that as I go around the state
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: of Maine and talk to people, which we've been doing,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, the past month has been me on the
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: road going all over the place. As I interact with
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: people directly, as I hold town halls, as I get
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: myself out there more, people are going to recognize that
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: this is not at all the person that they've come
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: to know and come to interact with in reality. So,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, they're going to call me a communist.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: They always call us communists. They're going to call us socialists.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: They're going to call us wacko lefties. They called Hillary
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: Clinton a communist. In many ways, we're not getting away
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: from it. I also think that a lot of that's
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: kind of run its road. And the way that you
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: combat it is the way that you combat, frankly, a
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: lot of this negative nonsense online, is you just interact
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: with people in reality. In a state like Maine, with
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: 500 to 600,000 voters, And we have a year before
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: the election. We can do that. We can really go
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: out and spend a lot of time interacting with people.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: And that's, I mean, that's exactly what we're doing.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So I was talking to a couple of people
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: who oppose your candidacy or working for other organizations or candidates.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: And they said to me, like, look, these Reddit posts,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: some of them are from that long ago. There are
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: more posts that are out there that we know about
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: that have not been written about yet. And kind of
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: the suggestion is, what else do we know about this guy?
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: The argument is you're unvetted. It's too risky to nominate you.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: What would you say to Democrats who share that anxiety?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: There is nothing that I can remotely think of that
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: is out there that is any worse or really any
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: different than what has come out. I mean, I post
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: on the internet for a long time when I was
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: in a point in my life where I was looking
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: for a lot of, I would say, community, looking for
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: an outlet. I had an immense amount of disillusionment. an
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: immense amount of anger. I use the internet as a
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: place to find an outlet for that, which I think
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: is fairly normal. But there is... I mean, if that
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: is their concern, then they can go find more stuff.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: But I mean, I've honestly racked my brain about what...
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: I've not lived a very... I mean, I haven't lived
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: a boring life, but I haven't lived a very complicated one.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: I've never been close to money and power. I've never...
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: had the opportunity to like screw people over in an
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: awful way. I mean, I was in the service. I
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: certainly struggled afterwards, but even then, I mean, my struggles
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: were my own. They didn't impact other people. They just
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: impacted my life negatively. And the time that I was
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: active on the internet was the exact same time that
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: I was active on the internet. And it's That is
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: that part of my life. It's no surprise to me
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: that I was no longer active after 2021 because that's
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: frankly when my life kind of began to get good.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: For those who are worried about me not being vetted,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: there is just nothing that I, besides like stupid internet comments, besides,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I've never robbed anybody. I've never beaten anybody.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: The only violence I've ever used is frankly violence that
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: the United States government asked me to go conduct. There is...
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: very little. And I certainly was never close to money
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: and power, which I think is also, things are pretty
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: simple when you live a simple life.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I do. I really want to ask you about
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: your time in the US military, your thoughts on bigger
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: picture things. But I did want to just sort of
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: ask you about all the shitty stuff that's getting thrown
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: your way. Because I know it's, you know, it's been
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: an intense week of sort of, it's clearly like some
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: sort of opposition research switch was flipped, right? There's been
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: a lot of incoming. And I've heard a couple more
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: sort of strands of attack. So For one, you know,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: you made this video. It's about five minutes long. It's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: on Twitter and other platforms explaining the Reddit posts and
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: talking about how when you got out of the military,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: you had kind of like crude humor and crass language
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: that was the hallmark of the infantry when you were
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: in the Marine Corps. The NRSC interpreted those comments as
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: you blaming your fellow servicemen for the Reddit posts. So
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: that was sort of one strain of, I guess, attack
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: on the attacks. Uh, second, I've heard that there's a
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: whisper campaign questioning whether you should be getting disability benefits for, uh,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: your bad back or your bad knee, because you also
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: released a campaign video where you're swinging a kettlebell.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: And then by the way, uh, that's what the kettlebell
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: is for the bad back. Like, I mean, I've done
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: years and years of physical therapy and maintaining a strong
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: core is legitimately what keeps my herniated discs from putting
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: me into crippling pain. Like it's a, I mean, it's,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: it's amusing to me. It's not amusing. It's infuriating actually
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: to have people like question my, my disability rating question.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, the reason that I'm doing well is because
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: of the help I got that that's the point. That's
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: the purpose of therapy. That's the purpose of support. Like
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: to look at someone and say, oh my God, look,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: they're living a good life because after we provided them
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: support and continue to give support for them to live
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: that good life, they're living it is absurd. Like what's
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: the pitch here? We're supposed to like strip benefits from
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: disabled veterans? That we're supposed to like look at people
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: with multiple combat tours with banged up bodies and struggles
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: from trauma? We're supposed to look at that and say
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: that you're not supposed to get help. I mean, this
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: is something that actually deeply angers me. It took me
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: a long time before I was okay with asking for help.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: Because coming out of the infantry when I did, and
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: you can ask any infantryman that came out of the
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: wars the time I did, this was not a thing
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: that we did. There was a taboo around it. There
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: was shame around it. There's this idea that if you did,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: you were gonna no longer be able to get a job,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: that you'd be ostracized by society. And the fact that
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: I got through all of that, and when I go
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: to serve again, when I go to run for office
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: in my state, my own party comes after me saying
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: that I am not deserving of the life that I've
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: been able to build with help from the VA because
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: of my military service. That gets me pretty pissed. Yeah.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: The suggestion seems to be you shouldn't get better.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: That's right. Or the idea is that by getting better,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: you're then how just better and you're no longer in
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: need of the things that got you better. That isn't
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: how any of this works. It's not how physical therapy works.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: It's not how normal therapy works. It is all for
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: me to run. and do this and put myself out
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: here as essentially a very regular person. My wife and
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: I do not live an extravagant life. We have not
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: lived a life of power and wealth. We've lived a
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: very simple one. And this to us feels like a
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: way of giving back and doing something good for the
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: state of Maine and for the world in some ways.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: And by doing that, I get attacked by Democrats about
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: being a disabled veteran, what does that even send as
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: a message to other guys who might be, or men
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: and women who are disabled veterans who might want to
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: get involved? This is brutal. Like getting your life ripped
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: apart and having people go after your military service and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: go after your struggles afterwards as some like political football,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: it doesn't feel good. And I don't think anybody's going
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: to look at that and be like, oh, I wish
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: that would happen to me. And I mean, if the
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: goal here is to keep disabled veterans from running for office,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: then they should keep it up. But that seems like
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: a pretty ridiculous goal at a time where the Democratic
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: Party seems to be hemorrhaging demographics of all kinds. You'd
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: think you'd want to make it more inclusive, not the opposite.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would argue, too, that, you know, there's someone
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: who's I've never served in the military. I've worked in
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: politics for a while now. I have noticed that I
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: feel like veterans get held to a higher standard than
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: almost anyone else when people are looking at their record, right?
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: It's like, John, did John Kerry throw his medals or not?
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: It's like, well, you know, he served in Vietnam and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: got two purple hearts and, you know, right. Yeah. Tim wall,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: similar thing. It's like, well, you know, he was in
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: for 20 years. Let's pick apart his record anyway. Um,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: thank you for addressing that though. And then, you know, finally,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: like this one, I, I is probably equally as offensive,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: but you know, this other person I was talking to said,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: he said, this person said you're being called a blue
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: falcon on internet forums, which I'd never heard that term before.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: But I think the suggestion was maybe you were blaming
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: your service or your PTSD for the Reddit comments rather
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: than taking responsibility. And I just wonder what your thoughts
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: were on that line of attack.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: Of course not. That's not what I mean. That's literally
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: not what I said. I do think explaining the fact
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: that I struggled with alienation, isolation, and the effects of
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: PTSD after my military service. And that's why I was
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: on the internet, frankly, getting in fights with people and shitposting.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: I'm not trying to blame anything else, but I do
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: think it warrants explanation. It was a dark time in
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: my life, man. I'm just going to be straight up.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: I was not doing good for a couple of years there.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: And it took me a long time, even after I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: moved back to Maine, even after I started to settle in,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: it took me a long time to really begin feeling
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: settled again. And like I said, it's no surprise to
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: me that I stopped really using the internet around 2021
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: because that's when I'd settled in. I got back from Afghanistan.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: My last trip was in 2018. So I get back
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: from Afghanistan summer of 2018 for my last time over,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: fully disillusioned, fully convinced that the whole thing was utterly pointless.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: And that got me really, really cynical for a number
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: of years. And it took about a year and a half,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: two years for me to settle back into, frankly, society.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: And I'm lucky. I'm immensely lucky that I come from
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: a small town, that I moved back to a small town,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: that I'm very connected with my neighbors, my community, and
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: my family. I got to meet my wife. I mean,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: life got good.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: Is that what pulled you out of that sort of
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: Place of despair.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: But also, I mean, there was a time there where
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: I was really down on this whole project. I was
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: really down on like, because I just, I saw everything
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: as a complete waste. Like I got very nihilistic. I
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: got very critical. And then you like settle in and
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: you reconnect with human beings in the real world, not
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: on the internet, but like in the actual world. And
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: you build a community and you find yourself connected with folks.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: And that entirely rebuilt my faith. It rebuilt my faith
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: in America. It rebuilt my faith in our ability to
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: be what we say we want to be. It rebuilt
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: my faith in people. And I got that because I
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: got to move back to the place that I was
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: from and because I got the support that I got
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: from the VA to put me in, frankly, a much
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: better place, both materially and mentally. And I got support
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: and help. That's what got me through it. And that's
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: what allowed me to reconnect And that's what gives me, frankly,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: the immense amount of hope that I have to undertake
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: this project. I'm not doing this from a place of
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: cynicism or a place of ego. I'm doing this because
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: I honestly think we need to do something different. We
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: need to try a different kind of politics. What we
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: are doing right now is clearly not working. There is
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: so much resentment. There's so much hate. And coming from
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: a tiny town where a lot of my neighbors and
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: I do not agree on politics and yet we're all friends.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: We all know each other. Everybody still supports each other.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: They're like, for me, I see in that the way
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: forward and that, that colors my politics and it colors
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: how I'm running. And to, yeah, to, to have people
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: like look at this whole experience that I've gone through
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: in my life and want to throw it in my
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: face and to, To know that it's coming from the
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: same political establishment that frankly made me go fight in
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: these wars in the first place is like doubly infuriating.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: It's like you made me go, like I volunteered to
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: go do this stuff. You sent us off. You took
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: advantage of us. You took advantage of our patriotism. You
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: took advantage of our willingness to sacrifice ourselves, of our
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: willingness to take part in this stuff. And we come
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: back and struggle. And for years, struggle without help. And
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: then finally get help, finally rebuild a good life, finally
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: find like a place of real community and depth and,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: and a connection to this world. And then to have
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: that exact same apparatus, take that whole experience and try
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: to weaponize it. It's, uh, it's disgusting, man. It, it,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: it actually legitimately infuriates me.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: I can understand it there. The Obviously, like people's votes
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: and quotes and, you know, life experience is going to
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: be part of a political campaign. But the oppo research
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: world gets pretty fucking disgusting at points. And I think
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: you're kind of hinting at that. Speaking of which, in
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: kind of a non-traditional campaign move, your team actually shared
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: some opposition research on you with me. It's a video from,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: I believe, a decade ago. Let's just watch an excerpt
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: and then we should talk about it. First of all,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: what we're watching there was Graham wearing just his boxer briefs.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: Marine Corps silkies. Those are Marine Corps running shorts.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: Pardon me. Silkies. First of all, great song choice. Tell
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 4: us what's happening there, where you are. There's probably some
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: listeners who are very confused. And the reason we are
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: showing this video is because at the very end, you
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: can see a tattoo on your chest. And I've been
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: told that some of your political opponents are telling reporters
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: that that tattoo has a Nazi affiliation. And I would
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: like to know, is that accurate? Are you a secret Nazi?
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: I am not a secret Nazi. Actually, if you read
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: through my Reddit comments, I think you can pretty much
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: figure out where I stand on Nazism and anti-Semitism and
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: racism in general. I would say a lifelong opponent. The
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: video is from my brother's marriage to his wife, to
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: my sister-in-law, who I was serenading. I told them that
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: my wedding gift to them would be my embarrassment. And
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: so I performed a lip-sync version of Miley Cyrus' Wrecking
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: Ball to my sister-in-law on the day of her wedding
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: to my brother. And now, of course, that embarrassment, which
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: was mostly just held internally in the family, as we
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: always watch that video at family events and laughed, is
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: now shared with the world. So I feel like I'm
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: just going to give them a wedding gift for the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: rest of my life, which is great. I love them.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: By the way, the reason of this video is Saturday
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: was their 10th wedding anniversary.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, congrats.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: And my sister-in-law was, uh, showing everybody the video.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: And, uh, and I was like, oh yeah, there it is.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: There's me being, being embarrassed. But what we also, yes.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: So in 2007, I was a machine gun section leader with, uh,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: Kilo company, Thurbitai and 8th Marines. We were on the
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: 2-2 Mew. And it was my third deployment. My previous
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: two had been to Fallujah and then Ramadi, 2006. And
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: we went ashore and split Croatia, myself and a few
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: of the other machine gun squad leaders. And we got
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: very inebriated. And we did what Marines on Liberty do,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: and we decided to go get a tattoo. And we
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: went to a tattoo parlor and split Croatia. And we
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: chose a terrifying-looking skull and crossbones off the wall because...
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: We were Marines and, you know, skulls and crossbones are
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: a pretty standard military thing. And we got those tattoos.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: And then we all moved on with our lives. And
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: I actually joined the Army after that, where I got,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: you know, I had to go to MEPS. I got screened.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: Later on, I got a security clearance and a full
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: screen when I went to work for the State Department
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: as a contractor doing security for the ambassador to Afghanistan
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: in 2018. And I've also just lived my entire life
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: like a regular person with a skull and crossbones on
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: their chest, which by that I mean taking my shirt off,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: performing Miley Cyrus songs in front of my extended family
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: and to my sister-in-law and just taking my shirt off
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: at the beach.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: Right, presumably going to the beach, yeah.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I went to college. I went to the gym.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: I did all the things. And at no point in
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: this entire experience... of my life did anybody ever once say, hey,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: you're a Nazi. It never came up until we got
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: wind that in the opposition research, somebody was shopping the
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: idea that I was a secret Nazi with a hidden
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 3: Nazi tattoo. And I can honestly say that if I
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: was trying to hide it, I've not been doing a
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: very good job for the past 18 years.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah. You're a self-described communist, but also a Nazi.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: I will say the fact that I've managed to go
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: from communist to Nazi in the space of four days,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: according to the people who are trying to, whatever, do
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: this to me, I find to be quite a spectacular
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: turn of events, but you know.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: Well, like Miley, you've got range.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 4: So like you came into this, you're just like, you're
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 4: a normal guy. You want to make the country a
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: better place. Did you know this shit was going to happen? Like,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: did you go to your staff before and being like, look,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: I was a Reddit shit poster for a long time.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: There's some things that are going to come out. Let's
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 4: delete this old account. Like, let's get ready for this.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: Or has this just been a gut punch of like
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: stuff you've forgotten you'd written coming back at you?
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: I'm an elder millennial. I am well aware that everything
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: I wrote on the internet exists. I know what the
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: way back machine. I mean, the idea that like I
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: went through years on the internet and now think that
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: like there's some way to make that go away is absurd. Um,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: so no, I mean, and I, you look, I knew
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: they were going to throw, I knew that they were
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: going to throw the book at me, right? Like I
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: knew that we are up against the machine. We were
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: told not to run this race. I was specifically like,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: we were sent messages saying we were not supposed to
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: do this. We had to wait our turn. We didn't
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: have permission. And that if we did it, they were
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: going to try to just destroy my life. And that
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: is what they're trying to do. Um, I will say
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: the Nazi part did not, did not see that coming. Sorry. Um, that,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: that one, that one's, uh, out of right field, I guess. Um,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: but the, uh, yeah, I mean, I mean, I was, yeah,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: early on, like, look, I, I posted on Reddit for years.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: I'm sure I said some dumb stuff. It was also
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: a dark time in my life. I also used to
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: like get drunk and post on Reddit. Cause that was
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: fun when I was angry and alone. Uh, and pretty
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: sure that accounts for most of my bad behavior. Again, not,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: not trying to make excuses. It was me. I did it.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: And the things that I said that I do, I mean,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: there are things that I said, there are words that
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: I use that I'm utterly horrified by and I'm not
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: blaming anybody else, but, uh, but the idea that like that,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: that a person cannot like evolve and grow from years ago, uh,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: is I think pretty laughable to the average human being,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: especially at this day and age, everybody's posted something stupid
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: on the internet.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I look out for what it's worth. I
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 4: also appreciate that you wanted to come on here and
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: talk about this stuff and just have a shitty, uncomfortable
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: conversation because how else are you going to move through this?
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: The thing that people hate about this, I mean, like
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: regular thing that I've hated about politics for a long
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: time is that people are not real, right? Like it's,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 3: there's this whole thing. There's a show that gets put
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: on it's this, it's, it feels so devoid of emotion.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: It feels sort of devoid of depth. It's always driven
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: me insane. And like we, I knew some of this
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: stuff was going to come. I knew that I was
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: going to have conversations like this at some point. And
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: I think the way to deal with this stuff is
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: you take responsibility for it. You offer explanation. You also,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: you also show how it, isn't you anymore at all?
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: And I think, frankly, I mean, I'm very proud of
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: the person I am today. I'm very proud of my politics.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: I'm very proud of the work I've done in my
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: community for years. I'm very proud of the relationships I've built.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: I'm proud of my marriage. I'm proud of all of
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: these things. And I don't get any of this without
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: having gone through all of that. I don't I don't
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: think that we need to come up with bigger structural
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: solutions to our problems without getting disillusioned. I needed to
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: get disillusioned before I thought that maybe the thing that
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: we have now is not the answer. And then I
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: needed to get really disillusioned. And then I had to
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: rebuild some faith. I had to rebuild hope in my community,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: which came from actual Like work, work. And therapy. I mean,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: if there's one thing I can say, I went to
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: therapy for years. I still go to therapy. Super helpful.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: It's great. More people should do it. Makes you a
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: better person. Makes you all around happier. Gives you a
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: lot more tools to engage with thoughts and feelings that
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: you otherwise don't have tools for. So it's a, like,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not embarrassed by any of this stuff. I'm embarrassed
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: by things that I said, but I'm not embarrassed by
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: my life. And I'm more than happy to talk about
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: it openly.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 4: And I appreciate that. Last question on internet comments. You
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: never posted on the website nude Africa, right?
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: I did not.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: I avoided that one. Thank God. But oh boy, I
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: remember that story.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: Mr. Mark Robinson, we miss you.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: Are you a soldier? I think so.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 4: Wow, you have a good memory. So you enlisted in
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: the Marine Corps. You deployed to Iraq in 2005. You
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: got back. You later enlisted in the Army. And then
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: you did this additional tour of duty in Afghanistan. Can
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: you just like, can you tell us about what were
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 4: those deployments like for you? What did they teach you
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: about yourself and about the United States? Like take us
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: through that, that journey.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. My, I joined up in 04, I was 19 and, uh,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: I joined the infantry. I, I wanted to fight. Um,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: I'd wanted to be a soldier since the day I,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, as long as I can remember, I wanted
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: to be a soldier. I, I joined the Marine Corps
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: because the Marine Corps had the reputation as being the
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: Marine Corps. I mean, if you want to fight, then
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: you join the infantry. Everybody knows Marine Corps combat infantry.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: That's where the action is. And I did not get disappointed.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: I joined in February of 2004, and I was on
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: my first deployment in January of 2005 outside of Fallujah.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 3: We operated there. From Abu Ghraib prison, I was, we
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: just used it as a patrol base. I wasn't involved.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: This was after. Abu Ghraib prison area, Nasr-e-Wa-Salam, Al-Karma, pretty
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: much the area to the east of Fallujah proper. We
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: were there for seven to eight months, came back, was
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: home for five months, and we redeployed to Ramadi. in
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: uh i believe it was february of 2006 february or
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: march and then i spent eight months in ramadi and
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: that was that was the that was the most intense
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: of my deployments hands down ramadi 2006 was.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah notoriously horrifying time there right yeah.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah and i i was a kilo company the the
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: company i was with we were tasked with the defense
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: of the government center which was the It was the
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: capital building of Al-Anbar province. So essentially anybody that had
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: a grievance with the occupation came on down to the
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: GovCenter and expressed your unhappiness, generally with RPGs or mortar
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: rounds or direct fire. So it was an intense deployment.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: It was very violent. It was an immensely violent city
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 3: at the time. Al-Qaeda in Iraq had really consolidated itself
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: within the city at that point. So there was just
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 3: an immense amount of Violence against us, a much amount
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: of violence that we were committing. The civilians in the
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: city suffered immensely from, frankly, just being in the middle
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: of all of it. It was hard. It was a very,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 3: very hard deployment. I don't think you'll find anybody who
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: fought in Ramadi in 2006 who will say otherwise. Got
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 3: back from that deployment. At this point, I was a corporal.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: I'd served as the machine gun section leader and I
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: had the opportunity to either get out of the Marine
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: Corps or extend for a few months and redeploy with
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: my unit. And so myself and frankly, a bunch of
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: the guys with two deployments under their belts who are
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: all in leadership roles at this point, we pretty much
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: all extended so we could stick around for that next deployment,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: which we thought was going to Afghanistan. And then it
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: wound up being the 22MU. which meant that we primarily
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: bounced around the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean, did some
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: anti-piracy operations off Somalia, went ashore in Kuwait, did some
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: training in support of, and some stuff in support of OIF. Mostly, though,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: it was going to Liberty Ports, which means you pull
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: into a port and Marines and sailors get to go
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: ashore and have an evening ashore and get to drink
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: and party, which is fun when you are 22, 23
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: years old and.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: At that point, suffering from an immense amount of trauma.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: So there was a lot of heavy drinking back then.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, the infantry is always historically a heavy drinking place,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: but going ashore and partying pretty hard, getting tattoos, that
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: was kind of the bulk of it. Got home from
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: that deployment, got out of the Marine Corps. I'd been
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: accepted to college, George Washington University in D.C., Started at GW,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 3: promptly realized that I was not ready for that. It
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 3: was 2008. The war was still on. Buddies were still deploying.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 3: I really felt like I was kind of not pulling
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: my weight. So I wound up going to reenlist in
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 3: the Marine Corps. But I have sleeve tattoos, forearm tattoos.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 3: And the Marine Corps changed the rules. 2007, they changed
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: the MAR admins. Yeah, so no more sleeve tattoos, even
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: though I got them all in, they're literally Marine Corps tattoos.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: Eagle Glove and Anchor is my, it's 0331, my MOS.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 4: What a stupid fucking role.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: Okay. Well, if any Marines are watching this who are
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: in the Round the Tide. I was in, they're all
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: nodding along because they know how stupid. It's like it
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 3: drove everybody insane. Needless to say, I couldn't reenlist into
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: the Marine Corps because of my sleeve tattoos. Went to
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: the Army. Army doesn't care about tattoos showing on your forearms.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 3: And so I joined the Army as an 11 Bravo
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: and infantry as well. and went to a long range
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: surveillance company and became a reconnaissance and surveillance team leader.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: And then deployed to Afghanistan in 2010, 2011, in support
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: of a rifle company from Iowa. And I served as
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: a rifle team leader and a rifle squad leader in
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: Northeast Afghanistan. Got back from that deployment in 2011 and
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: got out of the army in 2012.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: And so, I mean, you served in both of the
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: post 9-11 wars. I mean, was your.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 4: The takeaway was the same in each theater, just sort
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: of like disillusionment with the mission, the cause, the purpose.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: So when I got, when I was, when I got
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 3: back from my, when I got out of the Marine Corps,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: the big issue was that I had felt we were
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 3: doing things wrong. I, I, I believed in coin. I
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: believed in counterinsurgency doctrine. I really thought that there was
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: this kind of like intellectual way of fighting the war
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: where we were going to connect with civilians. We were
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: going to build relationships. build this whole thing and that
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: we were going to, and I, and when I went
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: to college, that was kind of my idea. I was like, okay,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to like engage with these more intellectual concepts.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: This is going to give me a better foundation. I'm
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 3: going to go back into the military with this, this foundation.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: So we do this right. Um, when I went to
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: Afghanistan in, in 10 and 11, and at this point
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 3: I'm going back because I think that we've learned the lessons.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: I'm hearing all the words from, from the general Petraeus
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: and general Mattis have written the counterinsurgency manual. And it's
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: all right. I'm reading it all. I'm like, oh yeah,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: this is what we're doing. And then I went to
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: Afghanistan and we were doing the exact same bullshit. We
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: called it different things. We used different words. It was
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: the same bullshit. It was just metrics. It was like,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: how much money did we spend? How many people did
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: we kill? How many buildings did we build even if
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: they're now empty and nobody's using them? It was like,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 3: nobody ever asked like, how much better off are the
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: Afghans in this part of Afghanistan than when you got here?
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: Nobody was ever interested in that question. It was just
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: all these metrics. And I was just, I, I, I
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: left that. I left in 2011. I, my mom, I
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: got home from that deployment and I was like, we
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: need to leave this place yesterday. Like we are going
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: to lose this war. This was a 2011. Yeah. Um,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: I'm like, there was no, there's nobody knows what we're doing.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: There's no plan. I mean, it's just a, it's a,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: it's a joke. And that was when I began to
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: get in my criticism. I began to get incredibly critical
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: of U S foreign policy. I began to see it
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: as everything I had taken part in felt like it
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: had zero value. Uh, you know, 2014 rolls around or
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: 15 and then like Fallujah Ramadi fall to ISIS.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: And I was like, all right. Like what was like, I'm,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, what was the point of any of this?
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: This was like the most, like, and I took part
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 3: in this, some of these deployments were just immensely violent. And,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: you know, I, I watched friends die. I watched friends
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: get seriously injured. We killed people. I mean, like it
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: was a very, these were, I mean, I wasn't, I
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: wasn't JD Vance, you know, like we, I wasn't like
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: writing up, I wasn't writing up like a report on
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: Camp Volusia. Like we were fighting the war and, and,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: I still struggle with this because I still have an
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: immense amount of pride in my military service.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: And I'm still very, and in many ways it was
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: like one of the things I was best at. And
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: I'm very proud of that. At the same time, I
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: don't know what, I don't know what happened in Ramadi
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: in 2006 that made life better for the people of Sullivan, Maine.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody's ever going to be able
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 3: to convince me that there was anything.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: I think you're struggling with something that like everyone who
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: worked on these conflicts struggled with. Look, I think there's
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: an argument the war in Afghanistan should have ended after
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 4: Osama bin Laden was killed, right? There's all these windows
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 4: when I think we should have ended that war. I
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 4: think everyone who talks about these wars struggles with what
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 4: you're struggling with now, which is like, how do you
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 4: honor the service and sacrifice and patriotism of the people
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: who went overseas and fought and did something incredibly brave
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 4: and noble and with the end results, which are apparent
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: to all of us, which is the Taliban currently running
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: Afghanistan and ISIS coming back and Iraq and all the
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 4: challenges that we don't need to relitigate.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 3: I will just say this too. I went back in 18. Yeah.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you about that because you went back.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 4: So you get out of the army, you go to
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 4: school for a while in DC, you go back to
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: Afghanistan to work as a security contractor for the State
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: Department in Kabul. I think it was with a company
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: called Constellus.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Constellus. Constellus essentially bought up all of the old
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 3: security companies that used to provide these services. So it
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: used to be, back in the day, there was like
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: Triple Canopy, Blackwater, SOC, SMG. They were like a bunch of,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: they all vied for the same contracts. Over time, amusingly,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: just like everything else, ownership got consolidated. By 2018, Constellus
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: had pretty much bought up everything. Um, so they were,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: they were, they like, I worked for a company. My
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 3: first contract was a company called IDS international development solutions.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: And then within like a month or two of being
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 3: in Kabul, that promptly turned into triple canopy, but it
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: was all Constellas. It was the exact same company. They
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: just kind of like change the, you know, it's all,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, this, and this was when my disillusionment became, I,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 3: I went from being disillusioned to just being nihilistic because
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: there I am. In Afghanistan, seven years, seven years after
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: the last time I was there. But now I'm on
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: the ambassador security detail. And now I'm like seeing things
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: from the higher level. I mean, last time I was there,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: I was an infantry sergeant, right? And now I'm here
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: like interacting with the NATO leadership, US military leadership, the
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 3: diplomatic leadership, the UN leadership. Nothing had changed. Seven years,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 3: nothing had changed. No new ideas. They reframed things. They
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: had new projects. Everybody had a new project that they
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 3: were doing. All bullshit. And the only thing that was
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 3: happening was we were expending an immense amount of taxpayer
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: money on all of these projects, including the contract I
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: was on. I look back, it all seemed like a
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 3: big jobs program, frankly. Just a way of moving taxpayer
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: dollars into the pockets of all these security and defense companies.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: Because nothing I was seeing made any sense. It wasn't
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: moving us any closer. I don't even think anybody knew
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: what they were trying to move closer to. I lasted
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 3: about six months. I quit that job. I quit in
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: July of 2018. I was there for six months and
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: I was like, this is the dumbest goddamn thing. I cannot...
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: I was.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 3: I could not be engaged with the system anymore. I
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: was fully checked out. And then I went back to Maine, uh, full,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: like I bought a boat, I got into oyster farming
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: and I essentially never looked back until now, quite frankly.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: I guess my only question was how, what, you know,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 4: after like these really, uh, demoralizing, uh, tours that the
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 4: final one in Afghanistan, what made you think like, okay,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 4: one last shot, maybe as a security contractor, like that
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 4: might be the right thing for me.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: Uh, I was utterly lost and had no idea what
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: to do with my life.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 3: Like the one thing that I was good at that
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: I knew I was good at the one skillset I
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: knew I had was being a soldier carrying guns in
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 3: war zones for the United States. That was like the
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: last time I'd been good at anything that I, you know,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: that I felt I'd been good at something. The last
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: time I'd felt confidence in myself and my skills was
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: doing that. I'd spent the intervening years going to college
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: and having a lot of untreated PTSD, having a lot of,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: and the struggles that coincide with that. I was lost
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: and I went looking for answers in the one place
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 3: I thought I could find them. And then very promptly
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, well, that's just clearly not going to
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 3: do it. And then that was when I decided that
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: I probably had to start looking in totally different places. Like, say,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: becoming an oyster farmer in my hometown, which was never
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: on my list of things to do with my life.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: But also neither was running for U.S. Senate. So things
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 3: go in weird directions.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 4: Things get weird. Two more questions for you because I've
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 4: kept you for like nearly an hour now. Is there
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 4: an oyster farming season? Are you out there all year round?
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So in my part of Maine, it's fairly seasonal.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 3: We start in April and we usually finish up the
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 3: season by January 1st. You have to be freezing your
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: ass off. Yeah, it's cold. Wintertime's cold. That's what clothes
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 3: are for. And then January through April is fixing all
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: the equipment that broke during this. I mean, it's farming.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: You have a harvest season, a growing season, and then
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: you have your off season in which you prepare all
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: the gear and all the stuff. I mean, it's the ocean.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: The ocean is destroying everything constantly. Boats, their natural habitat
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: is at the bottom of the sea. So we have
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: to constantly coax them along to stay up with us.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: Outboard engines. I mean, there's always stuff to work on
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 3: in the winter. So wintertime is very project kind of focused.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: And then April through January is when we're kind of
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: in like either. I mean, it's very I'm not going
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: to get into details. It'll take hours. But the but
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of kind of ups and downs
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: to how how the oyster season works. But it's it's
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: it's saved my life. It absolutely is like being able
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: to become connected with with like the sea, making a
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 3: living on the ocean by myself. I mean, I spent
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 3: so many of those early years on the boat alone,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: which frankly was like just everything I needed. And if
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: I hadn't done that, I, I, I would, I would not,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 3: I would not be where I am without question. It was,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 3: it's a, and it's growing food. I love, I love farming.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: It's like, it's such a beautiful thing.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 4: So it sounds cool and it sounds fun. I'm just
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 4: a huge wimp and being on a boat in Maine
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 4: in January sounds challenging, but you're clearly tougher.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 5: Than I am.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 3: Well, it feeds my inner infantryman that still enjoys a
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: little bit of suffering.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you embrace the suck. Big picture, final question. What
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 4: is broken with the Democratic Party today, and how are
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 4: you different, and how do you want to fix it?
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 3: First and foremost, I think the Democratic Party is no
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: longer representative of Democrats. I've spent the past month going
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: all over the state of Maine, holding town halls, and
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: I don't meet a single Democrat in real life who
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 3: thinks that raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: healthcare is a bad idea. I haven't met a single
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 3: Democrat who thinks that we shouldn't be thinking about big
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: structural changes in the way of FDR. Democrats across the
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 3: party believe in the party of working people. They believe
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: in it being a party that represents justice, a party
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: that represents decency, and making this whole society work for
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 3: everybody in it. That is what Democrats believe everywhere I go.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: And I firmly believe that if the Democratic Party was
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: run by the majority of the people in it, it
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be that party. I think the real problem is
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: at the highest echelons in leadership, it is not that party.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: In the higher echelons, it is a party that is
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 3: very concerned about the donor class. It is very concerned
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: about its relationships with fundraising and money. It is very
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: concerned with holding on to personal power and not expanding
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 3: power and, frankly, empowering people to build power through organizing,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 3: which is something we're really focused on on my campaign.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 3: I just think it is entirely... The people driving the
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 3: decision-making at the highest level, they do not understand the
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: moment in history they are in. They do not understand
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: that there is a deep, deep need from the electorate,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 3: from the American people for real answers, big heroic structural change.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 3: The kind of stuff that gave us social security, the
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: kind of stuff that gave us Medicare and Medicaid, That's
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 3: what people want because the crises that we are facing,
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 3: they are huge. We are not talking about stuff that
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: can be fixed with a block grant here or a
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 3: tax credit there. We need to be thinking big again.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: And so many people in this country want that. And
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 3: they understand that they are living in a system that
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 3: has been built to screw them. And it's been built
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: by these same people. It's the same people that sent
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 3: me to Iraq. It's the same people that sent me
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: back to Afghanistan. The same people that over and over
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: and over again do not show up to fight for big,
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 3: courageous change for American working people. That's what people want
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 3: out of the Democratic Party. That's why I am a Democrat.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: It's why I'm running as a Democrat. I believe in
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: that kind of Democratic Party. And that's what we're trying
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 3: to build. Yet the leadership of the party sees that
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 3: across the country sees candidates Across the country that represent
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 3: that in its only response is to crush them its
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: only response is to try to bury people rip their
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: lives apart call them communists and Nazis within four days
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: of each other just try to like embarrass people I
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 3: guess and We're not going to get working people into politics.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: We're not going to get a politics that represents everyday Americans,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 3: all of whom have lived complicated lives, all of whom
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: who have lived lives that are based around evolving as people.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 3: We're not getting that. We're not going to get that
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: if this is what the party does. And we have
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 3: to beat them. That's the only, I mean, for me,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 3: that's the only option. We have to build power and
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: we have to beat them. And That's why I like
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 3: all of this stuff. There's nothing these people can take
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: from me that I actually treasure in my life. They
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: can't take the town of Sullivan, Maine. I can't take
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: my boats. My oyster farm is still there. My friends
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 3: are still there. My neighbors are still there. My wife, my, my,
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 3: my family, that's the stuff that I take seriously. All
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: this other stuff, you can like rip my life apart,
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: call me whatever names you want, insinuate whatever you want.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 3: But I'm not in this for myself. I'm in this
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: because we need to do something totally different. And if
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 3: the sacrifice that's required is getting dragged through the mud,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: then so be it. And I'm staying in this thing
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 3: because of that.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 4: Well, Grant Plattner, thank you so much for doing the show.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 4: I really appreciate your time and for being willing to
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 4: talk about all this stuff and hope to see you
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 4: again soon.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: Thanks, man. I really appreciate it.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Thanks to Graham Platner for
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: coming on. Dan and I will be back with a
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: new pod on Friday. Talk to you then. If you
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash friends to
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also, please
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save America
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: is a Cricket Media production. Our producers are David Toledo,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: Emma Illich-Frank, and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team,
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellevive,
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.