Latest / Surviving Narcissistic Abuse with Jill Wise / The Female Narcissist's Obsession with Destroying Other Women

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The Female Narcissist's Obsession with Destroying Other Women · Surviving Narcissistic Abuse with Jill Wise

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for joining me on my podcast all about surviving narcissistic abuse.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are going to talk about something that I know many women listening to this podcast have experienced, and that is what happens when a female narcissist decides that you are her competition, her threat, or even worse, her enemy.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most confusing things about this experience is that many times you didn't actually do anything to her.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: You may have supported her, you may have loved her, you may have trusted her, you may have considered her one of your closest friends.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: She may have been your sister, your mother, your coworker, your neighbor, your sister-in-law, your boss, or someone you genuinely believed cared about you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And all the while, unbeknownst to you, this woman may have been quietly comparing herself to you, competing with you, collecting information about you, resenting you, and waiting for an opportunity to use everything she learned against you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is one of the most psychologically disturbing aspects of dealing with a female narcissist.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because the relationship you thought you were participating in and the relationship she was participating in may have been two completely different things.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You thought you had a friend, but unfortunately, she thought she had competition.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You thought you were sharing your life with someone you trusted.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: She may have been gathering information.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: You thought she was celebrating your accomplishments.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was comparing them to her own.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: You thought she was listening to your problems because she cared about you.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: She may have been filing away your vulnerabilities for later use.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: You thought the compliments were genuine.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: You thought the support was genuine.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You thought the concern was genuine.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when the mask finally comes off, when the relationship changes, when the attacks begin, when you discover the lies, the gossip, the betrayal, the sabotage, or the smear campaign, you are left standing there trying to understand what in the hell happened.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You replay the relationship, you replay the conversations, you go back through every interaction trying to identify the exact moment where everything changed.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And many times the most painful realization is that perhaps it didn't suddenly change at all.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps the competition, the resentment, and the envy had been there much longer than you ever realized.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: You simply didn't know what was happening beneath the surface.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But before we get too far into this, I want to make something very clear.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is not about women being naturally jealous or competitive, catty or incapable of having healthy relationships with other women.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is not what I'm saying.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy women can admire other women.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy women can experience occasional jealousy without trying to destroy someone.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy women can feel insecure and recognize that insecurity belongs to them.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: They can look at another woman who is beautiful, successful, intelligent, happily married, financially secure, talented, confident, or well liked and say, I wish I had some of what she has without deciding that woman needs to be punished for having it.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: They can feel threatened and examine why.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: They can experience envy and use it as information about something they want to work toward in their own lives.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: The difference with a female narcissist is that envy can become pathological.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Another woman's happiness does not simply remind her of something she wants.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It can feel like an attack on her identity.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Another woman's success can feel like her failure.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Another woman's beauty can feel like her humiliation.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Another woman receiving attention can feel like something has been stolen from her.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And once you understand that, you begin to understand why these relationships can become so incredibly destructive.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when dealing with female narcissists, if not the biggest mistake when dealing with a narcissist in general, is assuming that the narcissist thinks the way they do.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this all the time because it is so important.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people tend to project their own conscience, empathy, and intentions onto other people.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you would never pretend to love someone while secretly trying to destroy them, it may never occur to you that someone else would.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you would never collect personal information from a friend and later use it against her, you don't expect someone else to do it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you would never smile in someone's face and then spend hours tearing her apart behind her back, you assume that the person smiling at you is genuine.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you would never intentionally sabotage another woman's marriage, friendships, career, or reputation, you don't immediately recognize that someone else may be capable of doing exactly that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately that assumption can make kind, empathetic, trusting people incredibly vulnerable to female narcissists or any other kind of predatory person.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the female narcissist can be very relational in the way that she operates.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: She may not immediately come into your life screaming, raging, threatening, or obviously abusing you.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Many times she comes into your life appearing intensely interested in you.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: She asks questions.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to know everything.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: She may compliment you excessively.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: She may tell you how much she admires you.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: She may say she has never met anyone like you.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: She may create an incredibly intense friendship very quickly.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to know about your childhood, your marriage, your fears, your insecurities, your family, your finances, your relationships, your mistakes, your dreams, your vulnerabilities.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: She may call constantly, text constantly, want to spend all of her time with you.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: She may tell you things like you're the sister I never had, or I've never been able to talk to anyone the way I can talk to you.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And because you believe you are building intimacy, you open up, you tell her things, you trust her.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But intimacy requires mutual vulnerability.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Information gathering does not.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a distinction many survivors only recognize in hindsight.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: You may eventually realize that while she knew everything about you, you actually knew very little about her.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps you knew only the carefully constructed version she wanted you to know, which could have been completely fabricated and manufactured.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: She controlled the information, she controlled the image, she controlled the narrative.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, you were showing up authentically, believing that authenticity was being reciprocated.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this creates an enormous power imbalance because she now has access to your emotional world while you have access only to the false identity she has chosen to present.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where the relationship can become particularly dangerous because the female narcissist may not simply be learning about you because she loves you.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: She may be studying you.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning what makes you happy.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning what makes you insecure.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning who matters to you.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning where your relationships are vulnerable.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning what you are ashamed of.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: She is learning what you are afraid of losing.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And none of this necessarily feels threatening at the time because she may appear incredibly supportive.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: She may validate you.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: She may tell you that you can trust her.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: She may even become one of the people you turn to when something goes wrong.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that is exactly why the betrayal, when it comes, can be so psychologically devastating.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because the person who eventually attacks you may be the same person you once trusted to comfort you.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I really want people to understand why pathological envy is so central to this dynamic.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because narcissistic envy is not simply wanting what another person has, it is often a deep, painful, intolerable reaction to another person possessing something that threatens the narcissist's sense of superiority.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that something can be almost anything.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: It can be physical beauty, it can be intelligence, it can be money, it can be a career, it can be a happy marriage, it could be a close relationship with your children, it could be your personality, your confidence, your authenticity, your kindness, your popularity, your sense of humor, your home, your body, your education, your friendships, your peace, your happiness.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it can simply be the fact that other people genuinely like you.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where things become so confusing for the target.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because you may not even value the things she envies about you.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You may be insecure about yourself.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: You may be struggling privately.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: You may not feel beautiful.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: You may not feel successful.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: You may not believe you have anything worth envying.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you may be looking at her and thinking she has far more than you do.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: She may have more money, a better career, a larger home, more attention, more status, and yet she is still obsessed with something you possess because narcissistic envy is not rational.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is not based upon an objective evaluation of who has the better life.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is based upon whatever wound your existence triggers inside of her.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when this woman begins targeting you, competing with you, copying you, undermining you, or trying to destroy you, you cannot understand why.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: You keep thinking, what did I do?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You analyzed your behavior.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: You wonder if you offended her.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You wonder if you were insensitive.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: You wonder if you accidentally hurt her feelings.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the answer is nothing.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: You existed.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You possessed something that triggered something in her.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: You walked into a room and received attention she believed belonged to her.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Someone complimented you.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Someone chose you.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Someone loved you.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Someone respected you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: You succeeded at something.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: You survived something.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were happy without her permission.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: You established a boundary.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You stopped admiring her.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: You saw through her.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps you simply became a living reminder of something she desperately wants to believe about herself but cannot genuinely feel inside.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when that happens, admiration can turn into resentment very quickly.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think one of the most important things to understand about female narcissists is that admiration and envy can exist simultaneously.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: She may genuinely admire something about you.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: She may genuinely want to be close to you because of it.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: She may enjoy the social benefits of being associated with you.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: She may enjoy having access to your relationships, your knowledge, your contacts, your resources, or your emotional support.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, the very qualities that attracted her to you can eventually become the qualities she resents the most.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this creates a very disturbing progression that many survivors recognize only after the relationship ends.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: First, she idealizes you, then she studies you, then she imitates you, then she competes with you, then she resents you.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually she may attempt to devalue you, try and take what belongs to you, or even completely destroy you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the target often has no idea this progression is taking place.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: You are still operating under the assumption that this is a friendship.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: You are still showing up with love.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: You are still supporting her.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You are still sharing your life.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, she may be keeping score.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is something many women have experienced without understanding what was happening.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: A woman enters your life and seems almost fascinated by you.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: She compliments your clothes, your hair, your home, your personality, your relationships, your career.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to spend time with you.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to know where you shop.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to know what products you use.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: She becomes interested in your hobbies, your interests, your friends, your language, your mannerisms, your ideas.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And initially it can feel very flattering.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then something begins to change.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: You notice she starts copying you.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not talking about normal influence between friends.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Friends introduce each other to things all the time.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about something that begins to feel unsettling.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: She buys the same things.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: She starts using your phrases.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: She develops your interests.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: She inserts herself into your social circle.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: She may begin telling your stories as though they happened to her.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: She may copy aspects of your appearance, your business ideas, your content, your personality.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then in one of the strangest parts of the entire dynamic, she may begin acting as though you copied her, as if you're the one trying to take over her identity.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've experienced this, you know how bizarre it feels.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You begin questioning whether you are imagining it because the behavior seems so strange.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: How can someone copy you and then accuse you of copying them?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: How can someone take your ideas and then become angry that you are still using them?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: How can someone insert herself into your friendships and then behave as though you are the outsider?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is where projection and narcissistic entitlement can become incredibly confusing because narcissists often lack a stable internal identity.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: They construct themselves externally, they observe other people, they identify characteristics that receive attention, admiration, love, or validation, and they attempt to incorporate those characteristics into the false self.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is that copying you doesn't eliminate the envy.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: In many cases it intensifies it because you are still the original source of the thing she is trying to replicate.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: She may be able to buy the same clothes, she may be able to imitate your mannerisms, she may be able to use your ideas, she may even be able to temporarily convince other people that she possesses the qualities she has copied from you.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: But somewhere inside she still knows where those things came from.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that can and usually will make you even more threatening to her.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So now the relationship begins to shift from imitation to competition.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Except you may not realize there is a competition.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the most exhausting things about dealing with a pathologically competitive woman.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: You are participating in a contest you never agreed to enter.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You share good news, and instead of simply celebrating with you, she immediately tells you something better that happened to her.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: You mention an accomplishment and she minimizes it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You receive a compliment and she finds a way to redirect attention to herself.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: You buy something and she needs to buy something more expensive.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: You lose weight and suddenly she is obsessed with becoming thinner.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: You begin dating someone and she starts criticizing him, trying to get his attention or flirting with him.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: You get married and she finds a way to undermine the relationship.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: You succeed professionally and suddenly she is questioning whether you really deserve it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: You receive attention on social media and she begins monitoring your numbers.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You make new friends and she inserts herself into the group.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You are happy and somehow she finds a way to introduce conflict.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Literally everything becomes a comparison.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Everything becomes a scoreboard.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the most disturbing part is that you may still believe you're dealing with a friend.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you continue sharing your life with her.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her what you are ha when you are happy.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her when you are hurting.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her when your marriage is struggling.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her about problems with your children.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her about your fears.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her about your mistakes you've made.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: You tell her about things you are ashamed of.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you believe those disclosures are safe because that is what healthy people do in close relationships.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when their relationship eventually deteriorates, you discover that nothing was safe.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Every vulnerability becomes ammunition, every mistake becomes evidence, every private conversation becomes public information, every insecurity becomes a target.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly the person you trusted the most knows exactly where to hurt you because you gave her the map.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot stress enough how devastating this betrayal can be.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because the injury is not simply that someone said something unkind about you.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: The injury is realizing the emotional intimacy you believed existed may have been weaponized.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You begin questioning the entire relationship.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was any of it real?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did she ever love me?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did she ever care about me?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Was she always competing with me?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Was she secretly enjoying my pain?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Was she waiting for me to fail?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Was every kind thing she did part of some larger manipulation?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, those questions do not always have satisfying answers.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where survivors can become almost obsessed with trying to figure out what was real.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: They go back through years of memories, they reread text messages, they look at old photographs, they replay conversations, they remember vacations, birthdays, weddings, holidays, and moments they thought were meaningful.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And now every memory feels contaminated because they no longer know what the other person was actually thinking or feeling at the time.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that, my friends, that is a very specific and devastating.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Devastating type of grief.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're not only grieving the loss of the relationship, you are grieving the possibility that the relationship you thought you had may never have existed in the way you believed it did.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to validate how painful that is.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because people on the outside may say, just move on, she was just a bad friend.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not that simple when someone has been deeply integrated into your life, when she knows your family, when she knows your children, when she knows your history, when you have spent years sharing experiences with her, when you believed she was someone who would be in your life forever.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Discovering that someone like that has betrayed you can create an enormous amount of psychological damage.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think one thing becomes clear over time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not weaponize vulnerability.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not use your most painful experiences to humiliate you.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not take information entrusted to them privately and distribute it strategically when they become angry with you.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And healthy people do not need to destroy your reputation in order to preserve their own.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this brings me to another behavior that is incredibly common with female narcissists.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the backhanded compliment.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think almost every woman listening to this knows exactly what I'm talking about.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: You look so good for your age.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had the confidence to wear something like that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're so lucky your husband doesn't care about your weight.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I could never leave my ki children as much as you do for work, but good but good for you.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: You've done so well considering everything you've been through.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're actually really pretty when you make an effort.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the real kicker.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you react, she has an immediate escape route.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was complimenting you.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're just too sensitive.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You always take things the wrong way.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was just joking.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And lo and behold, now she has made you look like the problem.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what makes covert aggression so psychologically crazy making and destabilizing.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: There is always plausible deniability.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: The insult is delivered inside a package that can be defended as humor, concern, advice, honesty, or kindness.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And because you cannot easily prove the intent behind it, you begin questioning yourself.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I am too sensitive.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she didn't mean it that way.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm imagining things.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm jealous of her.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm the narcissist.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is exactly one of the reasons these dynamics continue for so long.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because each individual incident may seem too small to justify ending the relationship.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: One comment, one strange look, one moment where she failed to celebrate you, one piece of gossip, one betrayal that was explained away, one time she flirted with your partner, one time she embarrassed you publicly.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: One time she told someone something you ask her to keep private.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: But when you put all of those incidents together, a very different picture begins to emerge.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: The subtle criticism, the competition, the copying, the gossip, the strange shifts in energy when something good happens to you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: The satisfaction you occasionally see when something goes wrong.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: The way she disappears when you need genuine support, but suddenly becomes intensely interested when your life becomes falling begins falling apart.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: The way she seems uncomfortable with your happiness, but energized by your pain.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about that because I think that is one of the most disturbing realizations survivors have.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the female narcissist does not simply envy what you have.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: She experiences relief when you lose it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Think about that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Your marriage begins to struggle and suddenly she becomes more attentive.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: You lose your job and she wants every detail.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You gain weight and she seems strangely pleased.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have a falling out with a friend and she inserts herself immediately.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Something goes wrong in your life, and suddenly the woman who seemed distant becomes interested again.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you can actually feel the difference.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can feel that she is more comfortable with you when you are struggling.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: She becomes warmer, more supportive, more available.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And because you are hurting, you may interpret that as evidence that she truly loves you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then your life improves.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You solve the problem.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You become happy again.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: You succeed.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly the tension returns.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because your pain may temporarily regulate her envy.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: If she has been comparing herself to you, your suffering restores the hierarchy she needs.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: You are no longer threatening because you are struggling.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: She can feel superior again.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: She can rescue you, advise you, pity you, feel needed by you.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those roles can provide narcissistic supply.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: But once you become strong again, once you no longer need her, once you are happy, once you are receiving attention, once you are moving forward, the envy returns.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds cruel, it is cruel, but I think survivors need to understand what they may be dealing with.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because many women waste years trying to earn genuine love from someone who experiences their happiness as a threat.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you cannot fix that by becoming smaller.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot fix it by hiding your accomplishments.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot fix it by reassuring her.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot fix it by proving that you are not competing with her because you were never the one creating the competition.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, many targets begin shrinking themselves anyway.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: They stop sharing good news, they downplay their accomplishments, they minimize their happiness, they become careful about what they share, what they wear.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: They become careful about what they say.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: They stop mentioning compliments they receive.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: They stop talking about their relationship.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: They learn to scan the narcissist's mood before deciding how much of themselves is safe to reveal.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And little by little they begin disappearing inside the relationship.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I want people to understand how serious that is.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you have to become less successful, less beautiful, less confident, less joyful, less visible, less authentic, or less yourself in order for another person to tolerate you.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is not a relationship.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: That is a psychological captivity.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this happens in families far more often than people realize.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: It can happen between sisters, between a narcissistic mother and a daughter, between sisters-in-law, between cousins, or in my and my sister's case.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: This can unfortunately happen when your father marries one of these repulsive people.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And because society tells us that family relationships are supposed to be permanent, survivors can spend decades trying to maintain relationships that are slowly destroying them.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: You may have a sister who has competed with you since childhood.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Every accomplishment becomes a threat.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Every relationship becomes competition.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Every family event becomes an opportunity to undermine you.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And because she is your sister, everyone expects you to tolerate it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's just how she is.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know she's always been jealous.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Be the bigger person.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't ruin the family.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or as my mom used to always tell me, please let it go, Jill, for me.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't handle the stress.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to forgive and forget.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say something about that.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Being the bigger person does not mean volunteering to be abused.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Keeping the peace does not mean sacrificing your mental health so everyone else can remain comfortable.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And family does not give someone an unlimited permission to destroy you.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing can happen with narcissistic mothers and daughters.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: A daughter reaches adolescence and begins developing into her own person.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: She becomes beautiful, intelligent, talented, independent.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of the mother celebrating her, the mother becomes threatened by her.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: She competes with her daughter, criticizes her appearance, sabotages her confidence, flirts with her boyfriends, I've seen that a lot too, minimizes her accomplishments.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the daughter grows up believing there is something fundamentally wrong with her, because the person who was supposed to love her the most could not tolerate seeing her shine.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And those wounds can follow women for decades.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because when the first woman who teaches you what love is also teaches you that being visible makes you a target, you may spend the rest of your life trying to disappear.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: You may become uncomfortable with compliments.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: You may sabotage your own success.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: You may feel guilty when you are happy.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: You may choose relationships where people are cruel to you because that treatment feels familiar.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I think understanding female narcissistic abuse is so important.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: The damage is not simply interpersonal.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: It can shape the way women see themselves.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because the female narcissist may resent you for things you cannot eliminate.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: She may envy your character, your empathy, um, your relationship with your children, your ability to form genuine friendships, your capacity to love, your resilience, your authenticity, your integrity.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: These are things she cannot simply purchase, imitate, or steal.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So instead, she may attempt to destroy the way other people see you.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where smear campaigns begin.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the most horrifying experiences a survivor can go through is discovering that someone has been quietly constructing an entirely false narrative about them behind their back.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know it was a horrifying experience for me.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And female narcissists can be incredibly skilled at this because usually they are very covert and mask the true intentions behind the smear campaign they have launched against you.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: They don't begin by announcing I hate this woman and I want to destroy her because obviously that would expose them.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, they plant seeds.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really worried about her.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: She hasn't been herself lately.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I love her, but she can be very difficult.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've tried everything to help her.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honestly afraid for her.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't understand why she treats people this way.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Notice how carefully this works?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: She is not attacking you.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: She disguises her smear campaign and true motivations behind presenting the information as being concerned.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: She is not gossiping.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: She is confiding.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: She is not destroying your reputation.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: She is trying to understand.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And while you are living your life completely unaware, she is slowly changing the way other people see you.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: She may do this for months or even years before you realize it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one of the reasons smear campaigns can be so effective.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: The narcissist has a head start.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You are not even aware that you need to defend yourself.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You are still inviting her into your home, still telling her your secrets, still defending her when other people question her behavior, still believing she loves you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, she may be carefully positioning herself as the victim of a conflict that has not even happened yet.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then when the relationship finally explodes, the audience has already been prepared.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: She has already laid the foundation.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when you finally become angry, emotional, defensive, or desperate, people think, wow, she was right about her.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the most calculated aspects of narcissistic abuse.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: They provoke the reaction and then use the reaction as evidence of the accusation.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And female narcissists often accomplish this through triangulation.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's her specialty.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: They tell different people different versions of events, they share selective information, they remove context, they exaggerate, they omit their own behavior, they position themselves as the victim.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because they are often highly socially aware, they know exactly what version of the story to tell each person.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: To one person, you are jealous, to another, you're unstable.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: To another, you're selfish.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: To another, you are abusive.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: To another, you are obsessed with her.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And to another you're an alcoholic or a drug addict.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And before long, you are defending yourself against accusations you did not even know existed.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where flying monkeys enter the picture.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Flying monkeys are people who are recruited, knowingly or unknowingly, to participate in the narcissist's abuse.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is another dynamic that can be especially devastating with female narcissists because relational aggression often depends upon social networks.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: She needs an audience.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: She needs validation.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: She needs people to carry information back and forth.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: She needs people to confront you on her behalf.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: She needs people to monitor your life.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps most importantly, she needs other people to confirm the narrative that she has created.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So she recruits.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: She may recruit mutual friends, family members, coworkers, your children, your partner, even people you barely know.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes one of the most painful realizations is discovering how easily certain people were willing to participate.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: People you loved, people you trusted, people you thought knew your character.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now they are repeating things about you they never ask you about.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: They are judging you based upon one side of the story.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are reporting information about your life back to the narcissist.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this creates another layer of betrayal because now you are not simply grieving the narcissist, you are grieving an entire social system that allowed the abuse to happen.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think survivors need to give themselves permission to grieve that because losing one relationship is painful enough.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Losing multiple relationships because one person systematically poisoned them against you can be absolutely devastating.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then what usually happens is you begin questioning everyone.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who can I trust?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Who's talking to her?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who believes her?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who is pretending to support me and reporting everything I say?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And this can create profound hypervigilance.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: It certainly did in my life.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: You stop trusting people, you stop sharing, you isolate, you become suspicious, and unfortunately, isolation is exactly what the narcissist wanted.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is why rebuilding after a smear campaign can take so much time.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: You are not simply rebuilding your reputation, you are rebuilding your ability to feel safe in relationships.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And survivors often become desperate to clear their name.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: You start explaining, you start showing evidence, you start contacting people, you start correcting lies, you start trying to tell your side of the story, and unfortunately, that desperation can sometimes make things worse.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because the narcissist appears calm.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: She has had months or even years to prepare her narrative.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have just discovered that your reality has been blown apart.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you're emotional.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you're angry, of course you're upset and distressed, but outsiders may not understand that.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: They see one person calmly telling a story and another person frantically trying to defend herself.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And once again, confidence gets mistaken for credibility.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I tell survivors that one of the hardest parts of healing is accepting that you may not be able to correct every lie.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know how painful that is.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know how unfair that is when someone has attacked your character, your relationships, your parenting, your career, or your reputation.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Every instinct inside of you wants to fight back, and understandably so.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: You want people to know the truth.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: You want justice.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: You want the narcissist exposed.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: You want someone to finally say, I see what she did.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that happens, but a lot of times it doesn't.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: But if your healing depends upon everyone understanding the truth, you will remain emotionally connected to the narcissist for years after the relationship ends.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because she is still controlling your attention.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: She is still controlling your emotions.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: She is still controlling what you do with your time.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why disengagement becomes so important.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not because what happened doesn't matter, not because the lies are acceptable, and not because you are surrendering, but because there comes a point where protecting your peace becomes more important than correcting the opinion of every person willing to believe a lie about you.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about what happens when you confront a female narcissist because I think many survivors believe that confrontation will finally solve the problem.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: You discover the lies, you have the evidence, you know what she did, so you confront her.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And because you are thinking like a healthy person, you expect some version of accountability.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she will deny it initially, but surely when she sees the proof, she will admit it.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Surely she will apologize.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Surely she will understand how much she hurts you.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: But instead, something completely different happens.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: She denies, she minimizes, she attacks, she cries, she accuses you of abusing her.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: She changes the subject.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: She brings up something you did 10 years ago.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: She tells everyone that you're attacking her.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly you are defending yourself again.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is why confronting a narcissist can be so upsetting, confusing, and almost without exception, a complete and utter waste of your time and energy.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: You enter the conversation.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to address one behavior, you leave the conversation defending your entire character.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes confrontation actually escalates the abuse because you now have revealed that you see through her.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: You have threatened the false self.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have removed her ability to manipulate you privately.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if she cannot control you, she may become even more determined to control the way other people see you.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is also why going no contact can sometimes temporarily escalate the behavior.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think survivors need to know this because they often believe no contact will immediately create peace.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it does, but sometimes the narcissist experiences your withdrawal as an enormous narcissistic injury.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: You are no longer responding, you are no longer defending, you are no longer providing information, you are no longer available for manipulation, and she may intensify her efforts to provoke a reaction.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: She may contact other people, create emergencies, spread new rumors, monitor your social media, send messages through flying monkeys, appear in places she knows you'll be, anything to get you to re-engage.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where survivors have to remember why they created the boundary in the first place.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because every reaction gives the narcissist information, every defense gives her material, every emotional response confirms that she still has power over you.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I know how difficult it is to remain silent when someone is lying about you.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, I do.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've been faced with that dilemma many times.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: But what I had to learn, and I think all survivors need to learn, is silence is not weakness.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Disengement is not defeat, and refusing to participate in chaos does not mean the narcissist won.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is become unavailable for the game.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about another incredibly painful aspect of this dynamic, which is what happens when the female narcissist targets your relationships.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because many of these women are not satisfied with simply disliking you, they want isolation, they want you disconnected from the people who you love.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: And again, there is a reason for this.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Strong relationships protect people from abuse.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you have friends who validate your reality, family members who support you, a partner who loves you, children who trust you, coworkers who respect you, or a community that knows your character, you are much harder to control.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So those relationships become targets.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: The narcissist may flirt with your partner.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: She may create conflict between you and your spouse.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: She may turn siblings against each other.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: She may poison children against a parent.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: She may create divisions inside families that last for decades.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: She may interfere in friendships.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: She may contact your employer.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: She may align herself with people she previously claimed to hate simply because they are now useful in hurting you.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have experienced this, you know how deeply violating it feels.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because suddenly nothing in your life feels safe.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Your relationships are being invaded, your private information is being distributed, your history is being rewritten, and you may feel as though you are watching someone systematically dismantle your life while claiming to be the victim.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is one of the reasons survivors can become so traumatized by female narcissists.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: The abuse is not always contained inside one relationship.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: It spreads, it becomes relational, social, familial, and professional many times.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time the survivor understands what is happening, the damage may already be extensive.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then comes the question almost every survivor asks, why me?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why did she choose me?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why did she become obsessed with destroying me?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't she just leave me alone?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the answer is often much more complicated than survivors realize.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you were targeted because you had something she envied.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you were targeted because you saw through her.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you were targeted because you stopped complying.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you established boundaries.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you challenged the false self.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's because you healed.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you simply knew too much.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was the situation in my case.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the most dangerous positions you can occupy in the life of a narcissist is being someone who has seen behind the mask.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know the stories don't add up.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know the public image does not match the private behavior.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what she has said about people she now claims to love.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what she has done.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know who she really is.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: And your existence becomes threatening because you are carrying information that contradicts the false identity she is trying to maintain.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: So now you need to be discredited.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: If she cannot control what you know, she will attempt to control whether anyone believes you.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why smear campaigns can become so aggressive after a relationship ends.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: The narcissist is not simply angry that you left.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: She may be terrified of what you know.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: So she races to tell the story first.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: She needs to define you before you define your experience.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: She needs to convince people that you are unstable, dishonest, jealous, vindictive, abusive, or obsessed.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because then if you ever tell the truth, people have already been instructed not to believe you.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot stress enough how psychologically devastating this can be.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because survivors often begin questioning themselves.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I am the problem.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I did do something wrong.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I caused this.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe if I had handled things differently, she wouldn't hate me.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I want you to stop.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because healthy people do not attempt to destroy other people for establishing boundaries.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not launch smear campaigns because a friendship ends.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not sabotage families because someone disagrees with them.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy people do not dedicate months or years of their lives to punish someone who no longer wants a relationship with them.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think survivors need to hear that.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: You are not the problem.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is not deserved.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: You are dealing with a deeply disturbed individual.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Normal people do not do this to other people.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most damaging effects of narcissistic abuse is the way it conditions you to assume responsibility for someone else's pathology.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: You spend so much time asking what you did wrong that you stop asking why another person believes disagreements, boundaries, or ending a relationship justifies destruction?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the question you should be asking.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this person need to destroy me because I stopped complying?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this person need to humiliate me because I succeeded?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this person need to isolate me because I established boundaries?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this person need everyone else to hate me simply because I chose to walk away?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those are not normal responses to conflict.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: They are indicators of something much, much deeper.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this brings us to perhaps the most important part of today's episode.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do when you realize you are being targeted by a female narcissist?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing I would say is stop giving her information.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot stress this enough.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Information is currency to manipulative people.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: The less she knows about your life, your relationships, your plans, your fears, your finances, your vulnerabilities, and your future, the less material she has to work with.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this can be difficult for people who are naturally open.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times having to adjust how you interact with people can feel awkward or inauthentic, especially in the beginning.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: You may feel rude, you may feel dishonest, you may feel as though you are hiding.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: But privacy is not dishonesty, boundaries are not cruelty, and you are not required to give someone access to your inner world simply because they demand it.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is to stop trying to prove that you are not competition because you cannot reassure someone out of pathological envy.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can make yourself smaller, you can praise her, you can hide your accomplishments, you can pretend you are unhappy, you can give and give and give, and it will never fill the internal void driving the behavior.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot love someone into developing a stable identity.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot sacrifice enough to cure envy.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: The third thing is to pay attention to patterns instead of isolated incidents.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I wish more survivors understood.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Narcissistic abuse is often difficult to recognize because people evaluate each event separately.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: She made one strange comment, she told one lie, she betrayed one confidence, she flirted with one partner, she ruined one event, she created one conflict.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens when you step back?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when you look at the entire relationship?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: What patterns emerge?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel after spending time with her?
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel supported or do you feel drained?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel safe or do you feel watched?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel celebrated or do you feel diminished?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel free to be yourself or are you constantly managing her reactions?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Patterns tell the truth that individual incidents can hide.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I would add something else here.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Believe repeated behavior.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think survivors can become trapped for years because they continue prioritizing words over patterns.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: She says she loves you, but she repeatedly hurts you.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: She says she wants what's best for you, but she repeatedly sabotages you.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: She says she supports you, but she repeatedly disappears when you succeed and appears when you fail.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: She says she's sorry, but the behavior never changes.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, you have to stop allowing words to erase evidence.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where rebuilding self-trust becomes so important.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because after dealing with a female narcissist, many survivors no longer trust their own perceptions.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: You saw the red flags, but you explained them away.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: You felt uncomfortable, but you told yourself you were being judgmental.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: You noticed the jealousy, but you convinced yourself you were imagining it.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: You caught the lies, but you accepted the explanations.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're angry with yourself.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: How did I not see this?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I trust her?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I tell her so much?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I keep giving her chances?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to understand something.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: You were making decisions based upon the information you had at the time.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: You did not know what you know now.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: And being deceived is not the same thing as being stupid.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Trusting someone is not a character flaw.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Loving someone is not weakness.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: The responsibility for deception belongs to the person who deceived you.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: But healing does require learning from what happened.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: It requires becoming more discerning.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not paranoid, not closed off, not incapable of trusting anyone again.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Discerning.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: There is a difference.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Discernment means you allow trust to develop over time.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: You pay attention to consistency.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: You notice how someone responds to your success.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: You notice how they speak about you to other people.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: You notice whether they respect confidentiality.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: You notice whether their words match their behavior.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: You notice how you feel in their presence and you stop overriding yourself simply because you are afraid of appearing unkind.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is one of the most important lessons survivors can learn.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to wait until you have courtroom-level evidence that someone is harmful before creating distance.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to pay attention to discomfort.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to notice patterns.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to decide that a relationship is not healthy for you even if you cannot explain every detail.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, I think survivors have to accept something incredibly painful.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: You may never understand why she did this to you.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: You may never receive an apology.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: You may never see accountability.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: You may never watch everyone discover the truth.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you may never receive justice in the way you deserve.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you can still heal.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: And healing often begins when you stop trying to solve the narcissist and begin returning your attention to yourself.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because think about how much of your life this person may have consumed.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: How many conversations have you replayed?
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: How many lies have you tried to correct?
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: How many nights have you spent awake wondering what she's saying about you?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: How many hours have you spent trying to understand why someone you loved wanted to hurt you?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: How much of yourself have you abandoned trying to survive her?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, you have to come home to yourself.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds simple, but it isn't.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because when someone has attacked your identity, your relationships, your reputation, and your reality, rebuilding yourself takes time.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: You may have to relearn how to trust people.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: You may have to relearn how to trust yourself.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: You may have to grieve friendships, family members, relationships, opportunities, and years of your life.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: And grief does not move in a straight line.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you feel strong, some days you will feel furious.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: And some days you'll miss the person you thought she was.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you will want justice.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you will want revenge.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you will simply want to understand.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that is part of processing what happened.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know how difficult it can be to rebuild yourself after prolonged narcissistic abuse.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know how confusing it is when you have been betrayed by someone you trusted, when relationships have been damaged, when your reality has been questioned, and when you feel like you have lost pieces of yourself trying to survive something that you never saw coming.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you can begin again.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not by becoming the person you were before the abuse, but by becoming someone who knows herself more deeply, someone who recognizes red flags, someone who trusts her instincts, someone who understands that access to her life is a privilege, someone who no longer confuses intensity with intimacy, someone who no longer hands her vulnerabilities to people who have not earned her trust, someone who understands that peace is worth protecting, and someone who finally realizes that she never needed to defeat the narcissist, she simply needed to stop allowing the narcissist to defeat her.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: So in closing, if you have ever been targeted by a female narcissist, if you have ever discovered that a woman you trusted was secretly competing with you, copying you, gossiping about you, undermining you, sabotaging your relationships, recruiting other people against you, or attempting to destroy your reputation.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to understand something very clearly.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: You may have spent years asking what you did to deserve it, and perhaps the answer is that you did nothing.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you simply possessed something she could not tolerate.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you saw through her.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you stopped complying.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you established boundaries.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you became happy.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you succeeded.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you healed.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps you simply refused to continue making yourself smaller so that someone else could feel bigger.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if that is what happened, I want you to stop carrying responsibility for a war you never started.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to destroy yourself proving that you are a good person.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to convince everyone to believe you.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to participate in every battle you are invited into.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you do not have to remain emotionally connected to someone simply because they are still obsessed with hurting you.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Your job is not to fix her.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Your job is not to understand every distorted thought in her mind.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Your job is not to prove your worth.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Your job is to protect yourself, to rebuild, to heal, to reconnect with the people who genuinely love you, to create boundaries around your life, to become selective about who receives access to you, and perhaps most importantly, to stop allowing someone else's envy to become the measure of your value.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because another woman's inability to celebrate you does not mean you are unworthy of celebration.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Her need to diminish you does not make you small.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: Her lies do not become truth simply because she repeats them.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Her smear campaign does not define your character, and her hatred does not determine who you are.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode resonated with you and you're trying to make sense of your own experiences with narcissistic abuse, pathological envy, smear campaigns, trauma bonds, or complex PTSD, I do work with clients privately, and I also have additional resources available to support your healing journey.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can find information about my private coaching, recovery course, and private community on my website at www.jillwise.com, which is linked in the description.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, thank you so much for spending this time with me.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: Please know that wherever you are in your healing journey, you are not alone.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Keep going, keep trusting yourself, keep protecting your peace, and little by little, day by day, you will find your way back to yourself.