Latest / Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball / Episode 115: Interview with Vassar Head Coach Tad Skelley

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Episode 115: Interview with Vassar Head Coach Tad Skelley · Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:11
  Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kirakidis, joined by my wonderful co host, Keith Glasser. How we doing?
• 0:18
  Speaker C: Great. How are you?
• 0:19
  Speaker B: Got another wonderful guest on today. I'm going to kick it over to you for the introduction.
• 0:25
  Speaker C: Sure. Tonight we're joined by a longtime baseball guy, has traveled all over the country coaching baseball. Bunch of divisions, great baseball mind, and someone who I'm super excited to have on the podcast. Wish I could get the coach against him in the Liberty League, but I have since left. But tonight we're joined by the new Vassar head baseball coach, Tad Skelly. Tad, thanks for coming on the podcast, man.
• 0:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 0:57
  Speaker C: That's great. The Brew Crew. You know, we had the Liberty League reunited here. Andy, coach there. Now you're there. It's where we got this. We got the whole Liberty League going. And I would be remiss, and I don't mean to rub this in, but I am going to shout out my rpi, my former employer, they did knock down the Liberty League championship this past weekend, and I was super excited for those guys as I've watched from afar for the last three years, silently rooting for them to be really good. So I was excited to see those kids be able to knock down the championship this year.
• 1:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, you and Falk have. Have done a good job. It's a good team, and they're tough, and they're really offensive, and I think they have just enough on the mound to kind of get them through. So you guys have done a really good job.
• 1:42
  Speaker C: Appreciate that. You know, Falk got him the rest of the way, so I'm super happy for him. I'm happy for that program. It's. It was nice to see. But enough of the pleasantries. Before we get going, go ahead and give our listeners a quick rundown of how you got to be the head coach at Vassar.
• 2:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I played at Wheaton College in Massachusetts for four years and had a career I'm really proud of and a lot of team success and was actually offered an opportunity by Coach Podbelski to stay at Wheaton and coach, and I took a job in sales instead of doing that. And, you know, I think I. I was really concerned of, like, do I want to just stay at Wheaton to be with the guys, or do I. Do I really want to coach? So I. I followed my economics degree and figured out pretty quickly I made probably the wrong decision. So I actually took a Job in prep school, coaching and teaching at Cardigan Mountain School, which is in southwestern New Hampshire near Dartmouth. And loved the coaching. Felt like I needed a more competitive atmosphere to coach in. And was fortunate through my Wheaton connections to have Coach Podbelski connect me with Jesse Woods. Got connected with Jesse. Jesse was at the time the first assistant at Notre Dame, the University of Notre Dame, and now a job that's really prevalent in like the power of four conferences, is director of baseball operations. At the time that was kind of, that position was starting and they needed someone. Needed someone pretty quick. And I had made the decision to leave Cardigan and went out and had nine different SEC ACC camps that I was going to work and was going to live out of my car for the summer and travel down to those places and kind of do that and give it a go and see if I could do it, see if I could learn and meet people. And two weeks into that, Jesse called. The day after that, Mick Aoki, who was the head coach at Notre Dame at the time Mick called and was like, can you be here on Sunday? And this was Tuesday, I was in Ole Miss. So I was in Oxford, Mississippi, packed up, drove back to New Hampshire, where I'm originally from, and did a load of laundry and headed out to Notre Dame. Spent two years there. In my second year at Notre Dame, Jesse woods and Chuck Restano, who's now the head coach at Navy, did an unbelievable job recruiting. And we had one of the best recruiting classes I've ever seen that year that were freshmen, a bunch of kids that either are still playing or played in the big leagues. And we were the three seed in the ACC tournament. We were the two seed in the NCAA regional at Illinois that year. And we were at Illinois. Mick had me represent us at the head coaches meeting for the regional and I was the lone non head coach there. And Spencer Allen was there at that meeting and he was the associate head coach at Illinois. And I didn't know it at the time, but Spence had already accepted the head coaching job at Northwestern. I met Spence and again, really had no idea that he was going to Northwestern. But we met and connected and a couple of weeks later, Spence hired me at Northwestern and spent two and a half years there. Had an unbelievable, unbelievable experience. In my second year at Northwestern, we lost in the Big Ten championship. Was just a great experience for a program that, like, historically, you know, not a ton of success, very challenging place to just recruit with the academics and all that and. But they were starting to really invest in the program. So it was an exciting time to be there. And I got a call from Steve Sanders, who at the time was the director of amateur scouting with the Toronto Blue Jays, and he was a Northwestern alum. And he asked if I would have interest in doing something on the pro side and scouting. And I felt like that was the next step in my development was to go and scout and learn how to do that at the highest level possible, which is in pro baseball. So I took that opportunity and it was kind of a hybrid job. It was scouting through the amateur draft and then in player development after that. And I loved it. I loved so many parts of it. I felt like I was learning, I was being challenged, which is exactly what I wanted. We lived in Florida at the time. I had a one and a half year old, and I felt like I never saw her. And that was really hard for me and challenging. And so when Jesse woods, kind of full circle, when Jesse got the Colby job, he had a full time assistant job open. And we'd had some conversations, and it got to a point where he was like, come on, man, let's go. We're going to do this together. And I actually had an opportunity to go to with Jesse to Colby or to go to an Ivy League and as an assistant. And I chose to go with Jesse just because I felt like I was going to have a massive hand in recruiting. And Jesse was going to give me the opportunity to make decisions both good and bad. And I definitely made both. I was going to run the offense, and Jesse was going to give me an inside look at everything that we're doing in the program. And I felt like that was going to prepare me for what could be next. And Colby was also a place that had never made the conference tournament in the Nescac. And I knew it was going to be an unbelievable challenge. But Jesse and I used to always say, like, hey, if we can do it here, we can do it anywhere. And, you know, and there's probably some truth to that, some that isn't true, because I do think Colby had a lot going for it. But that was a great place, great school, great facilities, and a great opportunity for me to be able to do something with Jesse. And I just learned so much from him, you know, on a personal level, on a professional level, and was able to take that opportunity, take the head coaching job at Gordon College, which is a very different school, but similar idea in terms of just program history. And I felt like, okay, now I can take everything I've learned and go and use this and try to turn this program around. And my hope was to kind of always get to a place like Vassar. And I had hoped that, know, being a head coach at a place like Gordon would. Would ultimately lead me to that. I thought I'd be at Gordon longer and. But Vassar came open and, you know, earlier than I would have expected and, you know, and I jumped at the opportunity and to be able to come here and things lined up and worked out and the process was relatively quick, I felt like. And my wife and I knew that, like, this is where we wanted to be, so that that was my path.
• 9:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're like a lot of guys who, who we've had on, and I think it's a. It's a. It's a common thread. I think it's an interesting thread, and I think it's an important thread. You sought out things that were difficult, but you also had a chance to learn from some people that you had a ton of respect for and got a chance to figure out all the different pieces of the puzzle that go into it. And I can't speak to it personally, but Keith can. Like, being a head coach is a different. It's a different ball of wax. And when you get different mentors and you get someone like Jesse who says, hey, man, you're going to see under the hood. You're going to learn how all this works. We're going to do this together, and you get a chance to see how you can put all this stuff together. Like it prepares you for exactly where you are now. And I think it's. I think it's something that we circle back to quite a bit, to how important the people are and the people that you're around and the people that influence you and the things you learn from them. I know I was lucky, me and you have some. Some crossover with some guys that we're pretty close with that I worked for. And Keith talks about it all the time with some of the guys that he had a chance to work for. But you learn so much when you get yourself around some really good people. And it sounds like that's exactly what you were able to do. And, you know, now you got a chance to build that Vasser program up. And I know personally somebody who's coached there, you know, we were in a similar boat when I got there with John, that there just wasn't any success previously. And you got to kind of figure out, like, how do you get it there? And it's a fun challenge to take on and I'm excited to see you. You build that program up because it's a cool place. I always, always hope near and dear to my heart. Some of my favorite kids I've ever coached went there and. Yeah, you know, I'm excited to see mix it up in the Liberty League. So I was. I was pretty fired up when I found out that you're getting that job. I was like, ah, we're. It's in good hands. We're gonna. It's gonna be all right up there. So that's. That was good to see.
• 11:37
  Speaker A: No, I'm excited. It, like, it. It is. It's. It's a challenge, like I think any high academic school is, and, and there's a lot of crossover with that and, you know, but I. I do feel like I was lucky to learn from, you know, from, from, honestly, back in my playing days, from Coach Podbelski, but from, From. From Mick, Coach Aoki and, And. And Spence, Coach Allen at Northwestern, and, And Jesse, you know, and. And, like, I still learned from Jesse. Like, I. I hope we get to play. I don't know if. If he's ever going to want that because we're so close. But, but, like, I, you know, I mean, I talked to Jesse this morning, you know, and we sometimes recruit against each other, and, you know, we're probably saying a lot of similar things because I'm probably repeating a lot of the things that he said, because there are things that I believe in and that we do here, but I'm really, really lucky to have learned from some really good coaches. And, you know, you try to obviously apply it every day, and I know you guys obviously have been fortunate to have that, too, and, like, people that you coached against, like, I listened when you guys had Kevin Casey on, and I'm sure you've had all the cases on at this point, but, you know, like, John Casey, you know, and, like, I was. I felt very lucky to be in the opposite dugout of him. And, you know, like, just. I'm very different, you know, just. But, like, just watching and you just go, okay. Like, that's why they're good. Like, that's why they're in the position they're in every year. And maybe I can't do it that same way, but, man, like, there's something I can take from the way in which he operates and what he gets out of the kids that he coaches, you know, and I'm sure that all three of his boys are no different and they're doing the same thing, but stuff like that. Yeah.
• 13:31
  Speaker C: It's interesting in this game that. Especially on the coaching side of it, the. What you can learn from so many different people. Like, I had a similar experience to what you're talking about. We started going to Notre Dame, and I went to West Alabama. I was coaching in a tournament. I was in the Clark Griffith League, now defunct. We were in a tournament in, like, it's at the Point Stadium. I forget. It's like a legendary tournament. And they called me and they were like, hey, school starts on Monday. It was Friday night. I was like, okay. So we. We played Friday night. I drove home, did a load of laundry, packed my car, and drove to Alabama and got there on, like, Tuesday. But, you know, and I've said this before that, you know, I coached. Gary Rundles was the head coach there at West Alabama, and he was, like, the shortest tenured coach I worked for. And he had been coaching. He was a head guy. He was at the time. He had been a head guy for, like, 28 years, you know, and West Al just knocked down a championship, too, in the. In the Gulf South. So shout out. West out. You know, and then Rossi. Coach Rossi at Siena, who I still talk to weekly, you know, shoot. 54 year, 55 years or whatever. Like, God bless, you know, Carl. Carl was 35, you know, and I think, you know, those guys, they've forgotten more than we know about the game. And I think you can learn so much from them, and you can learn. You know, I think when you're. When you're a player, you don't see that side of things, right? Like, how many of your guys have, you know, maybe not so many nowadays, but, you know, the kids who go on to coaching, and then within, like, six months, they text you like, yo, this is far different than anything I ever thought that it was as a player. And you're like, yeah, it's a completely different animal. And, you know, it opens their eyes. And I think that, like, you know, when, you know, with playing at Wheaton and being surrounded by that coaching, I mean, those guys are, you know, they're so good, right? And, like, I just. I always thought, like, you could always learn something from somebody along the way. Sometimes it could be good, sometimes it could be bad, right? Like, I don't want to do that, you know, but there's. If you're. If you're smart enough about it, when you go through it on this side of things, like, you can really pick up on things that guys do and teams do that you might be able to work into what you do. Like, you're right. Like, we can't do what. What old man Case was doing. He did it for so long, and it's different. But that dude won a lot of baseball games, and he is so fun to be around, you know? Like, I would. I mean, we would go to show ball, and I would just sit next to him and ask him questions. Like, just like, for that reason, like, hey, man, you've won a lot of baseball games. Like, let's talk, you know, And I. One of my favorite stories, and we'll get into it here in a second. We were playing. It was 20, 21. Were playing that condensed season, and David had just taken over at Ithaca. And I'm standing in the third base box, and all of a sudden, old man Val is standing next to me. He's like, hey, what's going on? I'm like, hey, Coach. And we start talking, and I, like, literally a minute in, I was like, hey, the game is actually going on right now. He's like, oh, yeah. I was like, well, I'll come out early. Next to me. He's like, okay, yeah, yeah. I come out every inning. I went out early. And we just stood there and talked. And I was like, this. Like, this is just free. This is just free learning right here from it. I mean, val's won, like, 1800 games in college baseball. He's won national championships.
• 17:02
  Speaker A: We were last weekend. And. And he. I was like, who's the guy that's not in uniform, that's on the field?
• 17:12
  Speaker C: Was he picking leads?
• 17:13
  Speaker A: Like, still, like, he's act. You could tell, like, actively coaching, you know? And I was like, that's gotta be dad right there. Cause I didn't. You know, I didn't know that. My sister coaches field hockey at Ithaca. And so, like, I know Val now and more through that. And then obviously, you know, being here. But him. And I think. I think his. There's another guy.
• 17:36
  Speaker C: Baz.
• 17:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, who are. Like, we just have guys that aren't in uniform that are like, these. With tons of experience that. I mean, like, what world are we living in right now?
• 17:46
  Speaker C: Nope. They're there, and they're the best. Like, those dudes. Those dudes have seen so much.
• 17:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:51
  Speaker C: Recruiting standpoint. From a baseball standpoint. Like, I mean, shoot. He took over. I think Carl. Carl ended up coaching with him in the 80s.
• 18:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker C: And then Carl ended up getting the RPI job shortly thereafter. So, like, I mean. And that was back in the day where, like, you could play, like, 75 games. And there was no real rules or any of that stuff. But, like, the end of the day, Val. One, like 1800 games. That is a. That is an astronomical amount of games to think about winning at the college level.
• 18:22
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 18:23
  Speaker C: Like, I don't even think if you put all of, like, I don't even know if we have 1800 games between the four of us. Three of us. Andy, you're the math guy.
• 18:34
  Speaker B: I haven't. I haven't even been on the field for that many games. I mean, like, Coach Powlowski's. He's got. He's going to cross the 800 win mark at the Division 3 level, where you're limited to 40 regular season games. That is absolutely bonkers in that many baseball games.
• 18:55
  Speaker A: Is that where he's at?
• 18:57
  Speaker B: 795 right now? I just looked it up.
• 19:01
  Speaker C: Good for him.
• 19:03
  Speaker B: That might have been entering the year, actually.
• 19:05
  Speaker A: And he's been the only head coach there.
• 19:09
  Speaker C: Really.
• 19:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. Started the program.
• 19:12
  Speaker B: He's got a hell of a coaching tree, too.
• 19:14
  Speaker A: I know that's.
• 19:16
  Speaker C: That's surprising to me. So it's a young. I mean, I say this with all due respect. It is a younger program.
• 19:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker B: From 28 years. 20. I think it's his 28th year.
• 19:27
  Speaker A: Jesse was like, probably the, I don't know, fourth class that. That Coach Podbelski had because Jesse played there and. Yeah.
• 19:40
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 19:40
  Speaker C: I didn't realize that.
• 19:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And now that conference is a lot different than. Than it used to be.
• 19:48
  Speaker B: Whoever wins that, who won it this year.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: Salad?
• 19:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:52
  Speaker C: All right. For. For fact checking sake. Val won 1136 games. So it wasn't 1800, but still, 1136 games.
• 20:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:02
  Speaker C: Is an absurd amount of wins.
• 20:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker C: And 11 overall. Or, excuse me, 1136 at Ithaca. And overall, he had 1196. Almost 1200 games he won.
• 20:15
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 20:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. That's crazy. I may have watched that many summer ball games, but I didn't coach that.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: Because you're watching four games at once.
• 20:25
  Speaker B: Right. Standing at Diamond Nation, just doing a circle.
• 20:29
  Speaker C: Standing in the tower, watching.
• 20:31
  Speaker B: Finding. Finding that elevated spot at the New England baseball complex. So you can see all. You could see all three fields.
• 20:38
  Speaker A: Y.
• 20:38
  Speaker C: Or the old. The baseball heaven. You could stand in the tower way back in the day and you just wander around, which didn't exist when. We know. We all went through the recruiting process.
• 20:50
  Speaker B: No, definitely.
• 20:53
  Speaker C: How do you guys find players at Vassar? Let's get into this.
• 20:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it starts with the academic component, you know, and they're, you know, for us, there There has to be an academic fit. And, you know, even probably some of the other places I've been at, certainly the three other really high academic places, I would say more so here, I do think, and I've only been here for a year, but I wouldn't say conversations start and end there, but they really need to probably definitely start there. And just in an effort to not waste everyone's time. And then. And then, you know, I think from there it, like, it's, how do we, you know, player acquisition, like, how are we figuring out who these guys are? And it's people like you guys, right? And I don't know if you guys would consider yourself consultants or, you know, but people that are. That are helping advise in the recruiting process. And it's high school coaches, it's travel coaches, it's people in certain areas that we trust. And I had to rely on that so much last year with the 2025 class as my first recruiting class here, and I had to replace 13 guys at a school as academic as Vassar is. That was probably the greatest recruiting challenge I think I've had in my career. And not that I've done it for that long of a time, but it was unbelievably challenging and stressful and trying to figure out a new place and the way in which we do our reads with our admissions office and what we value and what we don't. And, you know, that was. That was challenging. And I had to rely on relationships because there's just no way that as much as we want to get out and see people. And, you know, I think when people, you know, not just Vassar, but any high academic school, you look at, like, the endowment and how big that is, and it's a, you know, it's a sexy number and all that. But, like, you know what? Our recruiting budget's not going to be that big. And that's a reality for. For a lot of us. And that's, you know, us and our peer schools, which would be, you know, most the Nescacs and, And. And others. And we have to get pretty creative. And, you know, sometimes, you know, we're. Yeah, we're going to utilize video, but obviously everybody does that. I want to feel like I can go see every kid that we're recruiting, but that's also not realistic, as much as I'd want to say that. Sometimes Last year I had to rely on guys that I trust, and sometimes it was, you know, again, a travel coach or someone in the position that you guys are in. And honestly, sometimes it was people like Jesse and who would say, hey, dude, I saw that kid, like, he's a really good player and this is what he can do. And the timing of when I got hired, I couldn't see the kid, but had been able to establish a really good relationship with he and the family. And they've been on campus and have kind of fallen in love with all that side of it, but unsure on the athletic side and, you know, so relationships. And that's like, that goes way back to me at Notre Dame. You know, Jesse and Chuck Restano used to always talk about that. Recruiting is relationships. Recruiting is relationships. If you want to be good at recruiting, you have to have good relationships with people. And then I think, like, for us, things that we value and, you know, I definitely probably used to say, hey, we're going to get the best available player and kind of leave it at that. And I, I don't think I would say that anymore. And I would say that after being here for a year, like, we, we need to get more athletic and, and we can. And I think, like, we can absolutely do that here, you know, And I think that there's just so much value the way that the game has, I don't know if, I mean, changed a little bit, but if we're athletic, we just present an opportunity to impact the game in just so many different ways. I think we can develop at a different rate through being athletic, being in the weight room, being committed to that. And I think that now, having seen for a year our strength and conditioning coaches and what they can do, that's the thing that, like, we're just going to prioritize over, over everything else, like in this league. And Keith, I know RPI is probably built a little bit, a little bit different. Like, those guys can really, really swing it and we want to be that way too. But like, we have to be able to bunt, we have to be able to run, we have to be able to hit and run. We have to be able to just execute situation and we have to be able to defend and play defense and we have to be able to win two to one baseball games. And sometimes, like, that's just. We're struggling to hit that day. And like, we get hit by a pitch because we're willing to, you know, be on the plate when we're struggling to hit whatever it is, right? And we'll find a way and then we can steal second base and then, you know, bunt them over and we hit a ground ball and we Score a run. And so I think, like, we. We. I do have a vision for us of being a team that, like, we're acquiring guys that are. Are built that way. And, you know, I love the big guys that can hit and swing it, but there is an element of, like, man, like, sometimes guys, if that's all they can do, like, you better be damn sure that that's what they do. And, like, they're going to do it. And, you know, I've seen a lot of times, too, where you think guys are going to do it and they come in and they're not that. And there's just nothing else that they, you know, there's not a lot of other ways where they can impact the game or impact the program. And, you know, and then. And then, like, the thing I tell to kids on the phone, it's important to us is we want winners. And I think, like, Vassar attracts high achievers academically, and we want high achievers on the baseball side. And I think, like, that's what winners are. Winners are guys that, like, want to be good, and it doesn't really matter what they're doing, whether they're picking something up that day and it's new to them. Like, they just want to win. And so I think that's definitely something in the recruiting process we try to figure out and try to establish is, like, how much of a high achiever are you? And we did it at Colby and we do it here. But if you're interested in Vassar, I know you're a really good student, and I know that's really important to you, and it has to be in order for you to come here. But I really want baseball to be really important to you because it's not an easy place to play it. Like, it's just not. And it's going to challenge you in so many other ways that you have to really want to compete and want to play baseball, I think, in order to be successful here. And I just think that's a small way that we can do it a little bit different here and, you know, and hopefully, hopefully do a good job recruiting that way.
• 28:28
  Speaker B: You hit on two things there that stuck out to me. The first one. The first one is the defensive component. And I think this gets overlooked a lot. Maybe not overlooked, but I don't know if it gets talked enough about in the recruiting process that how important it is to be able to defend. Right? You get to college, the margins are so thin. If you can really play defense, you're going to be in a lot of baseball games. Right. And obviously pitching is a component of that. But the position player who is athletic is generally going to have a higher defensive ceiling. Right. And we focus a lot of times and we. I use as a broad term, but oftentimes we focus on the exit velocity in the 60 time and how hard can you throw the ball across the infield and like, that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, can you catch the ball? Do you take good routes? Do you. Can you do more than just make the player supposed to make? Right. Because that's the thing that doesn't show up in field in percentages. Can you go and take a hit away from somebody? And that stuff moves the needle at any level of college baseball. And if you look, we're coming up on tournament time here, right, for Division 3. Everything's getting settled. I believe the brackets got selected today. Division two. We got what, two weeks left before Division one brackets come out. Every team who's going to play in those tournaments or go far in those tournaments, they are going to catch the baseball at a really, really high clip. And they're also going to be able to go take a hit, take hits away from guys. And I don't think it's as conducive to Twitter and social media to show defensive highlights. But you're not the first coach to bring it up. But you're the first one of the guys who's actually like, dove into. Like, we need dudes who can play defense.
• 30:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:18
  Speaker B: Because you're absolutely right that everybody loves a dude who can mash. But if you're having a bad day at the plate or you're going through a stretch where you're really struggling, is there other ways you can help us win a game? Yeah, and it's such an important thing. And it's one thing that we try to impress upon in the in on the podcast and guys that we work with is like, we got to be really good on the defensive side. Because at the end of the day, once you get there, if you can really defend, you're going to be able to find a way to get on the field. Because you can always create offense. You can't manufacture defense. Like, you can either kind of defend or you can't.
• 30:57
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 30:58
  Speaker B: So that. That stuck out. And then the other piece was in the academic world, it's. You want the kids that are baseball players who are really smart, not smart kids who play baseball. And that's what it takes to be really good, is that you need the combination of two, but you need the athlete who's an excellent student, not the excellent student who happens to like to play baseball. And that's what moves the needle. And I think that that gets flip flopped sometimes in the high academic space. And it's like, well, I'm a really good student. I could go play in the Nescac. You need to be a really good baseball player first, and then you also need to be a really good student. And I think it gets flip flopped sometimes, or at least in some of the conversations that we have, and understanding that the baseball talent has to be there first. But then the first question you're going to ask once you find out, like, hey, that kid's pretty good. Now it's going to be, hey, can you send me your transcript? I got to make sure you got your APs in line. I got to make sure that your test scores are going to be where they're going to need to be. And I think that that gets twisted a little bit.
• 32:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think it does. You know, and it's something that we're doing actively here and just, you know, I don't want to say different, but, like, it's. It's just an emphasis for us in the recruiting process. And, like, I'll always talk about my four years at Colby, and, like, I know Andy, like, we brought in two guys that, you know, you worked with or, you know, you know, with the supreme, and, like, that's who they were. Right? Like, they were baseball players that also were really, really academic, that, you know, put a high value and emphasis on their education and, you know, and that's just, like, that's what we're looking for. And I think sometimes kids, too, and when they. When I talk to them on the phone, like, they think that's what I want to hear is talking about school. And, like, yeah, right. Like, we need to know that it's important because, like, you're not going to be able to hang here if it's not, you know, and, like, admissions is there for the checks and balances anyway. Like, they're making the decisions. Like, you know, we have no, you know, they're making the decision and.
• 33:15
  Speaker C: But.
• 33:18
  Speaker A: But we are making the decision on the baseball piece. And you know, what I don't want to have happen is have guys come here that just, you know, for them, like, baseball is important, and, like, it helped me get here, which is great. Like, I like it. I want to be a part of it. Like, that can't happen because it's just not easy. We ask too much, you know, and. And with the academic rigor here, like, it's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. You have to really love it. And you know what else? Like, Keith knows this. We've never won a conference championship here. And like, I tell every kid that we talk, that I talk to on the phone, I talk about that because it's important to me. And, you know, it's important. Every kid in our 2025 class, they're well aware of that. They want to be a part of the first group to do that. And every 26 that we're talking to, it's the same thing. Like, you know, there have to be some shared values, but, like, again, like, that competitive component of baseball, like, you have to want to win. And, you know, as we continue to change that part of the culture here, like, that's how we're going to do that. It's how we did it. That's how we did it at Colby, and it's exactly how we're going to do it here. And then just stylistically, too, I think a little bit like you were referencing that the defense, you know, earlier, and, you know, I think we probably could have hit a little bit better this year. Our group, we made decisions to play in three different positions. The defense over what could maybe have given us a little bit better offense. And because I felt like our pitching was giving us a chance and we needed to complement the pitching with. With defense. And. And I think we have the opportunity to get a lot better, a lot better defensively and. But, you know, I played in a program that was built on pitching and defense, and I got to be a part of it for. For four years. And so I believe that's. That's how you do it. And the other piece is, like, what do guys always want to do? Position players when they get to college? They all want to go hit in the cage. Nobody's like, oh, I'm going to go take extra ground balls. You know, typically, there's not a lot of Nolan Arenados that just really love doing that. Everyone wants to go hit. So I think you can develop hitters a lot easier than defenders, in my opinion.
• 35:47
  Speaker C: Well, pitching and defense travels, too. Yeah, you know, I think it's like. But it's true. And I think that there's. There's so many people, and we talk about this a lot on here, and it's important, and I. I always like to beat the drum on it because I think that in Today's youth levels, we've gotten away from the defensive component of baseball. Like there's, generally speaking, there's three phases. Pitching, hitting, and defense. But if you're a position guy, you have to take care of two thirds of that portion of the game. And you can't write a lineup with nine dhs. Like, only one guy can hit in the game without putting a glove on his hand. So at some point you're going to have to defend. And it's, it's not sexy to put on Twitter your defensive stuff or you, you know, because there's no, there's no metrics to it. We've gotten a little metric heavy in our game, but there's no metrics to your, your defense. Like, it's easy to post. Like, I had 110 exit view. Like, awesome, dude. You can't hit a slider. So I don't know what to tell you there. But like, you can find yourself playing at an early age just solely because you can defend the baseball where, you know, you're a dude who can flat out pick it. Like you, you might find yourself playing the back third of games because you're a hell of a lot more trustworthy with the glove than maybe the guy who's starting. And then all of a sudden that turns into like a spot start. And then now you're playing better than the other guy. And it's not because you're hitting better, you know, it's because you can defend better. And I think that people like lose sight of the fact that you have to actually go defend in college. And that's. It's a huge component of the game. You know, you're going to play the college level. 50% of your games are one run games. Right. Like it's you. If you're just going to go make five errors, you're going to lose all the time. That's not good. And it drives us nuts as coaches to watch guys make errors.
• 37:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker C: Physical errors happen, mental errors, now, whatever. But like when you continually make them, you're probably going to find yourself sitting next to us on the bench and watching someone else do it. And the moral of my. My soapbox rant is that work on defense because you're right. I like guys aren't going to. How many guys like, you know, you've, you've know you've flipped culture and you know that you have a really good team when guys want to stay after to take ground balls.
• 38:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:22
  Speaker C: And work on stuff.
• 38:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:23
  Speaker B: Right.
• 38:24
  Speaker C: Like, it's not like hey, I'm going to stay after and take some extra swings. Like, that's not what is keeping you out of the lineup. Dude, your swings, okay? You literally cannot throw the ball across the diamond or it can't find its way into your glove. So that's why you're not in the lineup. Like, maybe take a little bit more, take some fungoes, maybe set the hack attack up and shoot some balls at you. Do something that shows me that you have some semblance of feel as to why you're not in the lineup.
• 38:50
  Speaker A: I would say, like, close to 100% of the conversations I have with players when, when, when they initiate it for playing time is, is like they never talk about defense. And, you know, and like, I'll even say, okay, like, hey, I hear you, right? Like, and you might be right. Who are the guys that, like, we're, we're referencing here, right? And it's typically guys that defensively, it's, it's not close, you know, or even they don't play the same position, right? And it's like, well, hey, man, we're. He's a catcher, you're an outfielder, right? Or like, that's our shortstop. You play, you play right field, you know, and it's. Yeah, but hey, you're asking us to do this offensively and like, I can do it better than him, right? And it's like, we got to play defense, you know, like, he's in the game because he can play defense and, you know, hopefully he can be somewhat competitive offensively, you know, for us, and we'll figure out how to get something there offensively. But, man, he's going to, he's going to give us a chance defensively. But it's just like, Keith, hearing you talk, I'm like, man, the amount of conversations I've had where the defense never gets brought up, never.
• 40:08
  Speaker C: Defense isn't brought up. And it's always the one. I had this conversation the other day. It was like, well, I was, I was two for, two for four, but I was safe on a ball, but the umpire called me out. I'm like, so you were out? And they were like, well, I was like, have you ever been like, out on a bang bang call and they call you safe? Like, do you go to the umpire and be like, hey, man, I was out there. He was like, no. I'm like, funny how it only goes one way, huh? Like, it. And I've had, like. And you've had those conversations at the college level. Like, well, you know, I would be 3 for 10 if the guy called me safe. Like, yeah, you'd be over 10 if you got out the other three times. Like it never goes the other way. And I've like, I always find that funny when you have those conversations of like it always goes in the way of like to make you look better. And we completely leave out the defensive aspect of things. And I just think that it's, it's so short sighted and I get it. Like it's, it's hard when you're a kid to kind of really look yourself in the mirror and understand that aspect of things. But like, you have to be able to do both. Like you have to be able to defend, you have to be able to hit and like you don't have to be the best at hitting. You as long as you're putting together competitive at bats, you're probably going to find yourself with some semblance of a shot. But like if you cannot defend, it's going to be really hard to a get recruited and be play because at some point you have to put a glove on. And it's just, it's a reality of what college baseball is. The guys that are generally going to find themselves out there are going to be the best defenders. And like, yeah, you can hide some guys and you could, you can live with it here and there, but like it's not like they're terrible defenders. We just view it through the lens of like as college coaches it's like we could probably be a little bit better in left, but you know, he hit.390 with 10 bolts, so we live with a couple of the bad reads that he makes in left field. But like it's, it's a reality. Like you're not going to find yourself playing shortstop if you're going to field 800. Like that's just a reality. Like you have to field at a high clip in order to legitimately find yourself on the field.
• 42:22
  Speaker B: I want to dig into something because you have a unique background having been in pro ball and not just pro ball as a coach, but you ran it from the scouting side. Right. And the reason I want to ask this question because I'm going back to the guy that you mentioned earlier, Tony Silva. Me and you had a ton of conversations about Tony, right? Oftentimes in this process on our side, we're so close to it. You know, I'd seen Tony take 40 of bats, right? And I was just confident in like, hey man, this kid can hit. Yeah, you saw the same thing that some Other guys didn't see. And Tony's ended up having a nice little career up at Colby.
• 43:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 43:06
  Speaker B: Really good platoon players. A sophomore. He's an everyday dude right now for Jesse, hitting over.300. But the reason I want to tie it into the, the, the pro scouting piece is what did you learn in that role that helps you dig a little bit deeper? And more importantly, one of the things that I've always respected about you in the evaluation process is that you always start with what a kid can do and don't focus on what a kid can't do. Because it would have been easy to poke holes in Tony. Yeah, the guy's not a great runner or I'm not exactly sure where we're going to play him. But you were fixated on like, that kid is going to hit. He comes from a really, really high end high school program where they win a lot. He knew how to play the game. How did, what did you learn there and how do you take it into your evaluation process for guys now?
• 43:59
  Speaker A: Man, I think, like you said it right there of like, what can he do? And, you know, he, Tony was a kid that when I saw him, like, I don't know if you remember the game and I don't remember who they were playing, but I think it might have been like Bucks county or something like that. And it was just like, it was an awesome, awesome travel game. Just like, just back and forth, just kind of like heavyweight punches. And he, you know, every time I saw him, it was against good arms. Played the game the right way. Like, he had, I would say, a more advanced level approach. Like, he had the ability to impact the baseball to all fields. And he played so many different positions and like, I didn't, like, I didn't know where he was going to play, you know, and once he got to Colby and I said that to Jesse, I was like, look, dude, like, I don't know where he plays defensively. I'll be perfectly honest with you. Like, it might be third, might be a little bit of second, it might be first, it might be left, like, you know, like, I don't know. But like, Tony's going to be in the lineup and because he's got to hit high level pitching and the kid is really, really competitive. And like, we can't, we can't teach a kid to be really, really competitive. And I just think he's gonna figure it out. He's gonna find a way to figure it out. Comes from a really good high school program and a really good Travel program and like, we can't. You can't teach that. I don't. I mean maybe you can. I, I can't teach that. I should probably say. And you know, in terms of the scouting, like, I definitely have been around guys and I was very lucky. Like when I, in 2018 was the year that I, I scouted and I basically had to try to see guys that we felt like were going to be top 10 rounders in the Southeast. So like I saw very good players and. But being around other guys that were at games, that's, that's what I felt like. You'd hear conversations and they're trying to figure out like, what is wrong with this kid? What's the one thing or what are the two or three things that is wrong with the kid. And there probably is like there is with all of us to a certain extent. But like, I would sit there and like, man, but this kid is like, this is like, this is a 70 grade tool that this kid has, you know, and I think sometimes like we do lose sight of the things that someone or you know, whoever it is we're evaluating can do really, really well if it's exceptionally well. And you know, those guys are player haters. Those, you know, those, those scouts and like, and that's okay. And they're probably great at picking apart that stuff. But you know, I've always felt like too man, if someone does something really, really, really well, like that's something that might be worth not taking a chance on. But like this is going to work because they're going to do this exceptionally well, you know. And I would argue like now I've probably transitioned more to like the speed game of it and like Tony's a really good player. I would take Tony and. But like, I think even more so now, you know, there's, there's programs that I think are like doing what we're trying to do and I don't know if we're going to get the kid that's like really that Fringe Division 1 and we're competing with some Nescaks like in the recruiting process that you know, are going to have some, some you know, fancier tools at their disposal and you know, the facility, that sort of thing. Like, you know, maybe we can have better relationships in the recruiting process and maybe there's something about the school that can differentiate us in a positive way. But you know, for us I feel like building through the middle of the field with I don't want guys necessarily look like me that are 5 foot, 7, 5, 8 in a good day. But guys that, like, can impact in a lot of different ways. And I used to think, truthfully, like, hey, you got to be good in the middle of the field. And, like, so you recruit good players in the middle, and then you build around those. Like, you go get third and first and left and right. And I would argue now, like, no, just continue to recruit the middle of the field. Like, just keep recruiting the middle of the field. And, like, those guys can go play everywhere else. And I always knew that. And. But I never did that. Like, we still always, like, you're going to recruit a third baseman, you're going to recruit a guy that can play the corner outfield. And I think, like, here is. Is trying not to do that as much as we can, and really trying to recruit everyone that plays in the middle of the field. So.
• 49:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, you're right about that game. It was Bucks County.
• 49:14
  Speaker A: Bucks County, Yeah.
• 49:16
  Speaker B: It was field three.
• 49:17
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 49:18
  Speaker B: New England baseball Complex in. The kid who was throwing for Bucks county is the number one at St. John's right now. Rodriguez.
• 49:27
  Speaker A: Yeah. And Tony went backside twice on that kid.
• 49:30
  Speaker B: And that kid had. He's got a banger breaking ball. Yeah, yeah, that was. But that was Tony in a nutshell. And it's paying off for Colby now because you. You didn't fixate on a couple of the deficiencies that he had, and you focused in on, like, this kid will hit anybody. He can play a couple different spots on the field, and he's ultra, ultra competitive.
• 49:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 49:55
  Speaker B: And there were other guys who went and saw Tony and found reasons to not like him. And I'm sure looking back on it, and this is. This happens with all kinds of kids. But I just thought that was interesting, and I was really curious about, like, the pro side, because it is different.
• 50:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 50:11
  Speaker B: Like, part of your job as a pro scout is to come back and go, this is what this guy doesn't do.
• 50:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 50:19
  Speaker B: But as I got older as a coach and got around some guys that I thought were really, really good at what they did, that was one of the things that I picked up on is, like, don't start with the things they can't do. Tell me what they can do, and then we'll figure out if those deficiencies are so bad that we can't work with them. Because to your point, you can miss out on guys who do things at an exceptional level because you nitpick on something they don't do really well. Right. And, like, Tony had a really advanced hit tool that was going to play probably wherever he ended up going. Like, I think that, I think that Tony would have been able to hold his own at a lot of different levels in college baseball.
• 51:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 51:03
  Speaker B: But no, it's an interesting, interesting take. And I agree with you about the middle of the field, like, because it goes back to being able to play defense.
• 51:12
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 51:12
  Speaker B: If you're athletic guys can move well, guys can throw well, you can put together a more complete lineup. And I also think that offensively athletic guys have a higher ceiling into your point. I think it's easier to develop guys from an offensive perspective, not just hitting. Right. Because I think that this is another layer to the college game that gets put to the side in a lot of these conversations that you're not playing hitting, you're playing offense. Right. So it's not just about. And I know we love home runs and we see all these highlights on television, all that kind of stuff. And in. I love home runs too. They're awesome. Big doubles. Fan love a good double. But how guys can manage at bats, how can they find ways to get on base? Do you have guys who understand what a productive out is and understanding that it's a. It's a lineup of nine guys that are trying to score runs, not a lineup of nine individuals that are trying to hit. And it's very different than in high school because usually you just lean on like you're three, four, five guys and somebody's going to smash a ball with somebody on base and we're going to win a game. But in college, you need guys who can move the line. You need guys who can take a 12 pitch at bat because that 12 pitch at bat in the second might be the reason you get a starter out in the fifth instead of the seventh. And understanding like the trickle down effect of having a good offensive team, not just a bunch of guys who swing the bat pretty well. So I think that that gets missed. And when you're trying to play like you play, you play to Wheaton.
• 52:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:46
  Speaker B: Where the details are really, really, really, really important.
• 52:49
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:50
  Speaker B: You give you more. I think you give yourself a little bit more room for error too, because similar to deep, like Keith was talking about with defense at the front end, guys who take good at bats, guys who can move the baseball, guys who can really run the bases. That stuff doesn't slump.
• 53:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I use the term all the time. Like we need to play offense, you know, and like even just like when we're hitting at practice, I'll say to guys, hey, we're going to play offense now and like, we're going through our BP rotation, but we're not just, we're not just sitting, we're not swinging, that's for sure. Like, you can go do that, you know, with your hitting guy back home, you know, you can go swing and. But we're also not just sitting in there hitting, you know, and, and like, I'm talking about it, we're going through our end of the year meetings now and, and you know, hey, how many times did we just have like feel good rounds or how many times are just gap rounds that we just like, you don't do that. You know, we're not doing that. We're trying to do things very intentionally of, like, how can we score runs? How does this group, with this personnel, how can we play offense to the best of our ability to score as many runs as we possibly can? And that might mean that our rounds are hit and run round, you know, a runner at third base with the infield in round, runner at third base with the infield background. You know, like, those are things that we're doing. And especially because. And this is a whole different, you know, this probably. I'm sure you guys could go down this for hours. But, you know, travel baseball has been exceptional for, for some things and in some things it has, like, hurt us and it's the baseball IQ end of things. And like, I think understanding, you know, what you're doing in the box, understanding what you should be doing situationally in the field, understanding how to pitch and not just throw. Like, you know, we're not doing a run and gun right now. No, like, we actually have. We got to pound his own and we got to be competitive with, with multiple pitches. And again, travel baseball has just elevated the, you know, the talent in all the different facilities that have popped up everywhere. And that's been exceptional and. But in some ways, like understanding how to play the game and back to like playing offense, like, those are things that like, I think we have to as college coaches scale way back and like dive into a lot more now because kids are coming in with, I just think a lower foundation of how to do that.
• 55:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, the. I get asked this a lot, talking to other coaches, high school coaches, travel ball coaches, guys, guys that we communicate with. And some of them will be like, hey, like, what did you work with? You know, what were your big pieces from a swing perspective at William and Mary? Like, nothing, man. Like, yeah, we made some tweaks to some guys because you're always Looking to tighten the screws. But 95% of my conversations with those guys were about approach, pitch mix, timing adjustments, pattern recognition. You know, you're talking in game stuff, understanding like hey, that guy's been through the lineup one time, he's thrown nine breaking balls. He's only thrown one of those breaking balls for a strike or he hasn't thrown a ball into a right handed hitter all day. So like giving them, that's where those were the conversations I had as a quote unquote hitting coach. Right. I wasn't a swing coach. And I would venture to guess that most guys who coach in college, they're not swing coaches, they're offensive coaches. A lot of it's conceptual. Most of its preparation, most of its mindset, you know, being able to understand situations and what a guy's going to try to do to you, like that's a shortcut to being a good hitter. Is that if you can narrow down the probabilities of what a guy is going to try to do to you or just understand pitch mix like hey, this dude can't throw a ball arm side for a strike.
• 57:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 57:15
  Speaker B: So we can eliminate a side of the plate and if he does okay, like we'll, we'll lean on that, that's okay. But I thought that that was where the biggest difference between a swing coach in these facilities and they have a place in this. Right. A more efficient, effective swing gives you a better chance in the batter's box. But if you don't have the other stuff to go with it, it doesn't matter how pretty that swing is. And when you get to college, it becomes less about my approach angle and my extension and am I getting, you know, the, the perfect V at contact and it's more about are we getting good swings off, are we making good pitch decisions? And then what is the information that allows us to do that more frequently? And that's college baseball in a nutshell. From an offensive side.
• 58:08
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 58:09
  Speaker B: And that's not even getting into moving runners, understanding situations, productive outs, running the bases, which I think is probably where travel ball. For me that's probably one of the biggest gaps is being a quality baserunner. Right. The good first to thirds, being able to score from second on a base hit. Dirt ball reads like stuff that in college really moves the needle because the margins often are so thin. Is do you have the instincts to go first a third on a ball that's hit to center field? Because you know that that right handed throwing outfielder is going away from his arm and he's not a great thrower anyways. Like, can we do that stuff or are we going to stop at second? Because nobody's going to yell at me if I don't, if I stop at second base. And that's, that's the stuff that I miss from a coaching perspective is being able to, to talk through those situations and yeah, put kids in practice situations where they can fail. Right. Keith talks about it all the time that like, that's the best place for kids to learn how to do things. And in college, at least where I was specifically at William and Mary, we tried to create an environment where our, our guys could play in high gear and we could coach them so that they knew this is what I was capable in a game setting and they weren't second guessing anything. You know, they knew they weren't going to get yelled at in practice for a decision as long as it looked like it was an aggressive decision. Yeah, we're going to learn from it in that practice environment. In college, it's so different than in high school where, you know, you probably just taking BP and guys are playing catch. Like, practice in college isn't about t work and front toss. It's about trying to get better at playing the game of baseball, not the individual components of it. There's my, there's my soapbox for the day, Keith.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker C: Right. Yeah. I mean, you're right. I, I think that it's, this game is, is tough.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker B: Right?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker C: Like it, it, it, it's, we see the game and this is not a, not a pat on our own backs. When you've seen the amount of games, now we haven't seen as many as Val as we talked about at the start of this, but when you've seen the amount of games that we've all seen, like, and you coach it and you choose this as your career to do this. Like, we see the game differently than just a random person who wants to watch baseball. Like, there's certain things that, like we're, we key in on that we like that tell you this is good, this is bad, whatever. Right. But the problem that I think where people get jammed up and where kids get jammed up is that it's, it's so situationally driven and it's, it's, it's such a higher concept of things that you have like that we think about when we talk about this, which is why we do this podcast to try to dumb it down as best we can. But like, you know, we were talking about it a couple weeks ago and it's very true. Like from a baserunity perspective, like it's something that gets lost at youth levels. I'm not blaming anybody. It's just, it's tough to do. But like if the just something simple for it to us of like yo, the right fielder is running to the line away from his throwing arm. He can't throw you out at third base. Like that's a free first to third right there. But that like trying to explain that to somebody who has no idea what really is going on. Like that doesn't seem to be all that simple. Like yeah, but it was like he was getting to it. Like, yeah, but his momentum's carrying him to the right field foul pole. He's going away from his throwing arm. So like he's right handed, he's running this way and running away from it. He can't turn around, turn, set his feet and throw you out at third base. Like that's not going to happen. And that like it's something like that to us that is very, very easy conceptually for us to kind of digest and understand that when you say to somebody like you said that to a 12 year youth coach, they're going to be like, wow, I've never thought of that. Like, yeah, it's not, it's not. Again, it's not to pat your own, our own backs. But like we just see this so differently and I think sometimes it's hard for kids when you know, you have to put them in situations in practice to get all, to get to some of those situations and coach them through it. Because we can sit here and talk to, we're blue in the face but like until you're doing it full speed and like a coach pitch inner squad, like yeah, we can throw some balls out on the fence and be like cut to 2. Like that doesn't do anything like. Sure. From like a, you know, conceptual like hey, this is where you need to be type thing. But like until you're actually doing. And there's so many things that come up like you know, and I always felt like it was a cop out answer. Like you know your short style. Because at RPI, right it's, it's. You've seen a tad. Like it's 300ft, it's like 297ft to right field with a double fence. But it's super short. Like we never really ran a double cut into right field to home because it's. Our right fielder can throw the ball to the infield and it's a 90 foot throw. Like we don't need a double cut into, into the right field corner for that reason. So then it's like, okay, what, like what does our shortstop do in this situation? Like, okay, situationally only here at home, like we're going to do this or so like it's. I think until you put those kids in those situations to get that, get those things out of them and get like, get them to understand that it's okay to fail in those situations, to fail forward, that you're like, that's when you can really start to get guys to conceptually start to be really good from a college baseball standpoint. And I just feel like there's so much that goes into it and like it's frustrating on as a former college baseball coach that like we don't have the support sometimes, especially at the lower levels of college baseball where you need more coaches, like, you know, and this isn't a shot at anybody, but like go look at Division 3 football rosters with the coaching staff. Like there's 47,000 coaches and it's like, hey, here's two baseball coaches. Good luck trying to teach all of this with two guys. Like it's, it's kind of absurd when you think about it. Like there's so much that goes into it. Like these guys get 15 coaches. I have me and our pitching guy. And sometimes it's a guy who's green, just fresh out of college, who, you know, you're trying to teach him how to coach while trying to teach your team. It gets to be a lot, you know, But I just think that there's so much that goes into it that like it can get, you know, it feels like you're drinking water out of a fire hose at times, especially when you're younger because you've never played the game at this speed, you've never played at this level. Like there's so many other things that go into it. Like, you know, hey, at this field we're going to double cut into the corner, but because it's 790ft away. But you know, at this other field we're not like, things just start to speed up on you and like learning how to, like putting them in those situations to learn how to slow the game down for themselves I think is one of the best things you can do. I mean, we used to, we would coach for Gener squad almost every day when I was at rpi. Like it was just something that I thought was valuable to put guys in spots because you know, the other Side, like, you talking about, like, getting to compete, man. Like, it's one of the biggest thing, like, finding that compete factor in guys. Like, there were times where, like, I'd bag stuff and just make up stupid competitions just to get guys to compete. Like, hey, man, we're gonna. We're not practicing much today. We're gonna do what we need to do, and then we're gonna make up some stupid competition game. And, like, then, like, you see who really wants it, and it's like, okay, here we go. But, like, that. That compete factor, I think, is something that, like, you need to find that. And if you want to go play in college, it's something that you need to absolutely, unequivocally have. Is that compete factor, like, because it's. It's. It doesn't get easier, and if you're. You're willing to compete and work for it, you're going to find yourself in a pretty good spot. But, you know, I still like to compete. It's horrific. It's the one. The. One of the many things I miss, but. Or a few things I should say that I miss. But that compete factor is. Is one of them. That's why I don't play, like, any adult sports. It wouldn't be good. I just play golf and then get mad at myself because I suck and then think that I should be, you know, playing on the tour.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker A: No, I. I think you're right, Keith. Like, I think that there's, you know, like, the tough part, too, is, although I think the NCAA has done more, given us more time in the fall, it's just. It's not. It's still not enough, and it's probably not close, you know, and I think, like, if. If we were evolving as, you know, in the ncaa, like, maybe the sport at the lower levels, we would probably adjust more, and I think it makes it hard. In Division 3 and Division 1, the touch points are just. They're just different. Like, they just. They just are. And. But I think for us, it's prioritizing. Okay, we get 24 days. Like, well, what's going to be the priority? And, you know, next year we're going to have 13 freshmen. So our priority is going to be competing and playing. And, like, of our 24 days, and we were talking about it today, either 16 or 18, we're going to be scrimmaging, like, you know, and maybe there's an argument that it should be 24. You know, I think being cautious of, like, arms is probably the biggest thing there, but you know, like, our guys are. Have been made fully aware that, like, they need to come back from an arm standpoint and they're going to be ready to go and we'll have them on a program so they can. But, like, we're going to compete and we have to. And, you know, and it's where we're at programmatically. But I think just in general, I'm. I'm assuming most everyone's going to be doing that anyway, but, like, next year, we're probably going to have four to six freshmen in the. In the lineup every day, and we're going to be old on the mound, which is great, but, like, we need to figure out exactly what we have, how we can develop that. And also, like, we need to get more competitive, and that's how you do it.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker C: Yeah, I had a soapbox moment, and I won't go on one again. But I couldn't agree more with the touch points at the Division 3 level for college athletics. Like, it drove me nuts that and, you know, like, look, make no bones about it, Vassar is a great school. RPI is a great school. It's tough, but, like, I know for a fact that there's probably two or three days during the week where I could actually hit or do defensive stuff with my guys for 45 minutes, just. Just to do it, not only from a skill set standpoint, but the other thing that I always. That bothered me at that level for that specifically is, like, you lose. I don't want to say you lose touch with your team because you don't, but you kind of do. You know what I mean? Like, if you. If you gave me, you know, two hours a week where I can check in on guys and make sure that everything's going well, school's going well, whatever. Whatever it is. But also, they came to rpi, they came to Vassar that. Wherever it is, because they want to compete and play baseball. Like, why withhold that from them under the guise of, like, well, it's too tough academically. Well, like, we're not prepping them at all for the spring, doing this in the fall, because the spring is a completely different ammo. Where we're going six days a week, we're traveling, we're playing 40 games. Like, it is a completely different ball game in the fall or in the spring. Like, let us prep them in the fall. Let us do two hours a week and work with them, make sure that everything's going right, that they're going to class, they're doing all These things. And it's not, you know, hey, man, we're gonna. For. On Tuesdays, we're gonna do an hour of defense, and on Thursdays, we're gonna do hitting for an hour. And it just gives me an opportunity to, A, get them better, B, they want to do it, because you know damn well your guys are doing it anyways on their own. Like, why not let me be there and help them get better at what they're doing? And I just. I always had a very big problem with that. And I. I hope someday somebody from the NCAA listens to this podcast because they have somebody who wants to go through the recruiting process and they hear me go on this rant and they'd be like, huh, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. Maybe we should do something like that again. Like, I'm not asking for what Division one has, but, like, you can't tell me that I can't find two hours a week to work with guys during the quote unquote, off season. But no, I'm. I'm glad you brought that up, because I think that that's something that, if I was the commissioner, that was something that I would change at the Division 3 level.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker A: Well, it's hard, too. Like, in the recruiting process, I feel like you tell the parents, like, hey, I'm gonna be your. I'm gonna be your eyes away from home. And, like, I'm gonna take care of your kid and I'm gonna make sure that they're okay, you know, and it's almost like, hey, the second semester, don't worry about it. Cause I'm gonna see him six days a week. I'm gonna be able to check in with him.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker B: But.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker A: But, oh, just like, you know, in that first semester, I can see him for a month and a half, but then, like, the NCAA doesn't really want me to see him, you know, And. And I think, like, I think that's a problem. But I also think that, like, we're in a day and age where, like, you know, mental health is real and, like, it's a priority. And I think the more touch points that you, you know, I think by large, college coaches and just coaches in general are positive influences. And, like, the more touch points you can have with kids, like, the more that you can positively impact their mental health. And it might not be baseball, right? Like, it might just be like, hey, how's that psychology class? I know it's kicking your butt right now. And, like, how are you doing? You know, are you. You know, are you still meeting with the professor, you know, and whatever it is. But being able to see them and, like, have a face to face is a heck of a lot different than a text message. Like, I could do a text message and be in California texting them in Poughkeepsie, you know, but, you know, that's my. That's my two cents. If we ever get it, if you guys ever. If NCAA ever listens to this, I'm.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker C: Gonna send it to him right now.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker B: I concur on both fronts 100%.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker B: I think that the only thing I'll add to that is kids come to a place like Basser to play baseball and get a great education. They shouldn't be limited in how much they can do either. Right. They're there to play baseball, like whether. And this isn't just bastard. This is any academic institution. They're going there because of you and the opportunity that you present from a baseball perspective in. In addition to the academic portion. Right?
• 1:13:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker B: You're an extension and coaches are an extension. Specifically at high academic Division 3 schools, or just Division 3 schools in general. They're an extension of the admissions department as far as I'm concerned. Right. I mean, think about the amount of guys that you go out and see, the guys that you have contact with, that you're bringing to Vassar actively, like, hey, I want you to be a part of what we got going on here. And look at all the cool stuff we got. We got a beautiful campus. It's an absolutely A plus academic situation. The, the alumni base and the community is going to help you when you get out of here and you're going to come here and you're going to learn some really, really valuable lessons being a part of this program, and hopefully you're going to help us get a championship. And I think that that gets on overlooked at times of how important the coach is to even get a kid to a place like that. And I think it would be good for everybody involved if there was some mechanisms put in place where some of that contact was allowed during that. That funky window. I think it'd be good for everybody.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker B: All right, last question for you.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker B: You've been doing this long time. You've done it at a bunch of different levels. What are some. A couple pieces of advice that you would give players and parents who are either currently going through the recruiting process or have aspirations of playing baseball in college.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would say as hard as it is to not rush, I do think we're. We're that's probably the hardest, maybe the hardest thing to do because, you know, we are in a little bit of a rush to, like, get the commitment, post up on social media and, you know, feel like, you know, I'm settled and I. I know where I'm going. I think, like, it always seems to work out and. And also, I think, like, ask the right questions. The right questions are, I think, the critical questions, you know, like, I don't mind when people, you know, I hope it comes from the kid. But regardless, you know, the family are asking critical questions of, you know, whatever is important to them. Like, hey, how do you feel? Like, hey, coach, you've seen me now, you know, three times, two times, whatever it is, one time. How do you feel like you're going to be able to develop me as a player and, you know, as a person and, you know, I know that, you know, for me in this case, like, Vassar is going to develop me, you know, academically and in those sorts of areas. I always kind of appreciate when people push back a little bit and, like, you know, dig deep a little bit with. With questions because to me, it tells me, like, hey, they're. They're thorough and, like, they. They want to know and they're serious about this. And I think, like, that's important. I. I believe for people to be confident and comfortable doing, you know, and. And I think, like, the kids should feel confident and comfortable doing that because at the end of the day, it's their future, you know, and it should be their decision and. And what they're most comfortable with. And I struggle at times when, like, I am. I am the conversation and, you know, and kids are just like, like, I have to guide the whole thing. And I'm like, man, like, this kid might be great for us, but, you know, based on this, I just don't think he's going to be. I'm not sure this is, like, the best. I'm not sure I'm the best fit for him, you know, and, you know, so I would just say that, like, when it. When it's right, it's right and you know it. But don't rush and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions and, like, the critical questions. I don't think, like, college coaches are going to get scared away by that.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker B: No, I think most coaches will tell you that they welcome those.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker B: Because it. I always thought of it this way, is that if a kid is willing to. To ask those questions, he's thought they mean something to him. Right. And it's not. And Keith. Keith always mentions this one, and it always makes me chuckle, like, well, do you guys travel south for the spring? Like, you can look at our schedule. Like, if you're going to ask questions, ask questions that have a little bit of substance. Right. How are you going to develop me? How do you see me fitting into the program? You know, what does the academic support look like? Like, how do we balance that? You know, I'm looking to be excellent in everything that I do. Is there a support system for me to make sure that I'm able to be an awesome baseball player, but that I can also pursue my degree in biology? Like, I think that those are the things that. It's always nice when it comes from the. The players, because, you know, you can tell that they're invested in it. So I think that's really good advice.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker B: All right. Well, Tad is. Man.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker A: Appreciate it, guys.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker B: Appreciate you coming on. Hopefully I'll run into you here in a couple weeks.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker B: Maybe catch you up in Boston.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. What are you. Where are you going to be? Do you. Do you guys have your summer schedules kind of planned out or.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker B: No, it's starting to come together as kids. Schedules are around, but I'll probably be up in Boston for the open would be my guess for sure. And then probably see me bouncing around Diamond Nation, but. But you'll hear from us. We got a handful of guys, as we discussed earlier, so we'll keep you up to speed on all those dudes.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker A: I appreciate it. And we're gonna do our best. Obviously, see those guys and keep doing what you guys are doing.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks again, man. Appreciate your time and we'll. We'll talk soon. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that, like button for us. Check us out on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I probably promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.