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SMNTY Classics: First Lady Edith Wilson · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. And today we are bringing back a Monday
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: mini we did on First Lady Edith Wilson and the history,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the interpretation that maybe she kind of was president for
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: a while. While her husband was incapacitated. Incapacitated. Yeah. Yeah,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: because we're in early voting. We're in voting times. And
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, but this story just came back
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to me of those things that maybe you look back
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: on and you're like, oh, I did not realize that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that's what was going on at that time. Well, please
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I've Never Told You, a production
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today we are talking about First
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm just going to go ahead
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: and say was not an ally, so I'm going to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: put that out there. But I was really interested in
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this story. The first time I heard about it was
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: on Drunk History. I'd never heard about it before. And
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it was on my mind after the recent election inauguration.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: And watching 9 to 5 actually pushed it to the
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: top of my mind. Because 9 to 5, you've got
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: women who are kind of making all the decisions while
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: the boss is incapacitated. So, yeah. We're just going to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: do a quick history. But there has been a lot
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: written about this. So if you want to learn more. you,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of resources, and I'm going to mention one
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: of them in this. Today, yeah, we're talking about First
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes called the first acting
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  Speaker 1: woman president. It's really complicated, but it is interesting. So
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: let's get into it. Edith was born in Virginia in 1872.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: From a young age, she seemed eager for power. Her
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: paternal grandmother described her as quote, bespectacled tyrant ruling from
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: a rocking chair throne. Well, there you go. I know.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: That's a title to have. Bespectacled, even.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: That is a title to have. But she taught Edith
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: how to read and write. Some French, even. She also
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: taught Edith the Lost Cause myth, which is essentially the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Civil War was something other than enslavement, which is not true.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: But she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her maternal grandmother
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: up in her story a lot. She even claimed, Edith
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: later claimed, she was a direct descendant of the original
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So she's saying her ancestors raped people. Yeah. Okay.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: But I think at the time, it didn't have that. Oh, okay.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: My bad.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: No, you're right, but... Edith met and married President Woodrow
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Wilson in 1915, a second marriage for the both of them.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Edith was a widow and had inherited her husband's D.C.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: jewelry shop. And records indicate that she was the first
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: woman in the area to get a driver's license, so...
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: All of these things, the job, the money, the license,
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  Speaker 1: the fact she didn't have kids, afforded her a level
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of independence that a lot of women didn't have access
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: to at the time. And it was extremely important to her.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: To the point she actually turned down President Wilson's proposal
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: at first. She was worried about losing her freedom and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: being subordinate as first lady. The president eventually won her
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: over by sharing policy documents with which I'm almost confident
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: was illegal.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Can
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: we just say men are the worst?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: All right, keep going. Yes. All right, so their union
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: did raise some eyebrows at the time and was somewhat
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: of a political controversy because he married her about six
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: months after the death of his previous wife. His aides
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: even came up with a plot to keep her away
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  Speaker 1: from him. Uh, they got engaged somewhat secretly and she
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: was much more politically involved than, uh, Wilson's previous wife
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: had been, uh, even trying to sever his relations with
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: those that had attempted to keep them apart. Uh, she
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: also did away with a lot of the first lady
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: duties that she wasn't interested in, uh, using the 1917
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: declaration of war. So no more hosting of events like
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the Easter egg roll. Um, From what I read, she
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was really into the image of the American housewife, though,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: which I find interesting because she canceled a lot of
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: these events, but she was into the image of it.
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  Speaker 1: So she wore thrift store clothing. She sounds like she
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was very performative or like she wanted to project this
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: image that she did believe in. I think she did
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: believe in it, but she wanted to make sure you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: did know she believed in it.
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  Speaker 2: Right, so she wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: You need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: you're not as smart as me.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Right, that's what I think, yeah. She made sure that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: at the White House they observed rationing and doing things
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: like Meatless Mondays and Wheatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers, volunteered,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: named vessels, thousands by one source. decoded military messages, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: just to mention, kind of like I said at the top,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every president's legacy
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: is very complex. It was progressive in some ways, but
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Edith was having undue influence on his policy, that he
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: supported suffrage despite the anti-suffrage viewpoints of his wife. In 1919,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, uh, in part from
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: all the stress of world war one. He also had
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: like a history of health conditions similar. Um, and his failure,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: he was really, uh, stressed about his failure to convince
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the U S to join the UN's precursor, the league
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of nations. So after the war, he was really like,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: we should, we should join a, an organization that's about peace.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: And then it failed and he was really stressed and
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: he had a stroke. Um, With the help of some aides,
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  Speaker 1: Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: his condition for months, claiming that he was suffering from, quote,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: nervous exhaustion. This was before women could vote. A reminder,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: she kept this up for a year and five months
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She restricted who
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: got to see him. And she informed people when he
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: had decided on important issues. For months, she essentially assumed
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: the role as president. The author of a biography on
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and Complex Legacy
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Boggs Roberts, has said
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: that without a doubt, some of the decisions she made herself,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: whether because she could not ask him or chose not to,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: She most likely approved of cabinet member appointments and issued vetoes. So,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: as you might imagine, she was controversial amongst the staff. They,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I would say very rightfully, didn't like that she was
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: keeping them away from him. And she was almost certainly
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: keeping stuff from her husband, too. We don't know for sure, but...
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: She said later that it was, like, about his health.
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  Speaker 1: But anyway, anyway. She was called Presidentrist, Secret President, Gatekeeper, Extraordinary.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Oof. I mean, she's getting these titles. From birth to now, like,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: she's receiving these titles. She was her. And I'm now
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: seeing a lot of these plots, like, must be based
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: on her. Like, a lot of these, like, presidential plot movies. Okay.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: All right. She... For all the bad things she does,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: all the lies she spills. The girl is doing her thing.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Go ahead.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Again, I want to read this book because she's such
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a fascinating, like, I don't want any women to have rights,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm be damned.
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  Speaker 2: But I will be the one that runs this country.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Don't you worry about me.
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  Speaker 1: All right. So we don't know. There's a lot we
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: don't know about this because we don't know for sure.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: She kept it secret if this was being done out
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: of a desire to chase power or because she didn't
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: want to upset him, Wilson, and worsen his condition. Both, maybe.
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  Speaker 1: She allegedly said that she believed resigning office would have
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: killed him. It's also likely that she was doing what
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: he would have done in terms of the decisions because
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: she knew him really well. So it's not like she
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: came into power and did something he wouldn't have done.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: She claimed she merely chose what was important enough for
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  Speaker 1: her husband to see and that she delayed a lot
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  Speaker 1: of it until he'd recovered. And you can look at
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that happened in that period and make
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: your own judgment. Also, legally, he should have resigned. We're
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: not a legal podcast. We've said it a million times.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: But legally, technically, he should have resigned and let his
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: vice president take over his duties. Apparently, neither Woodrow or
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Edith liked the vice president. Members of both main political
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency in But
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: he refused, not wanting to set a precedent, which feels
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: so strange now. Different podcast, but.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That sounds like Pence a little bit.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. President Wilson died in 1924. Edith stayed in
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies. A
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people say she really shaped what that position
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: looks like in our modern day. I would, we should
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: come back and do a deeper dive into that. But
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a different, the juxtaposition is so fascinating.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just sounds like she knew how to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: play the game.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And she just needed the... It's kind of what we
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: see in most people. People who are truly powerful know
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: that they do not need to be the face.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: They just need to pull the strings. Yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: And she really did. She really, like, behind every great
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: man is a woman. She was like, yep.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I am that great man. Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: So it's a really interesting story. I would love to
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: check out the book again. Clearly, she wasn't an ally,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: so not saying anything like that.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: just for her.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just for her.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I think she would be called a narcissist.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I know we throw that word around a lot,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: but this kind of level of, like, I know what's best,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm myself. No one else should have that same right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That definitely felt like her whole deal was that,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I know what's up. and I'm going to run this,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to let anyone else interfere. But yeah,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: if I left out anything or got anything incorrect, I
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: would love to hear from people. And if there's anything
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that you would like us to expand upon, from here,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at stephaniamomstuff
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: at iheartmedia.com or hello at Stuff Mom Never Told You.
• 12:57
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• 12:59
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• 13:02
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• 13:04
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• 13:06
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• 13:09
  Speaker 1: our executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 13:11
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• 13:13
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