Latest / Drawn of History / Joe Rogan Experience _1240 - Forrest Galante(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _1240 - Forrest Galante(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right here we go five four three two one
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: yes how are you man what's going on.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Joe i'm stoked man i'm really good really glad to.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Be here i'm stoked too yeah nice to meet you
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: um dude you were on naked and afraid sure was
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: ridiculous is that.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Sure was uh dude it's so it's so ridiculous like
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: to say ridiculous is such an understatement.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Because they oftentimes will have an actual survival expert or
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a wildlife expert or someone who knows how to live
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: in the woods. Sure. And that was the idea with you,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to get a wildlife expert? Definitely.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm kind of a combo. I've practiced primitive
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: survival for many years in a means to get closer
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: to wildlife. I just got back from the Amazon, and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: we had to feed ourselves every day. We had to
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: build shelter, blah, blah, blah. And I don't do it
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: for fun. I do it as a means to be
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: out further and stay longer kind of thing.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: But it's gotta be a little bit of a conscious effort, right?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Like to, to have fun, like fishing for your food and,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: you know, putting up shelter and stuff. I mean, it's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: gotta be like kind of cool to live like that
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: for a little bit.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: It's a, it's human nature, you know, like we, we
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: intrinsically want to hunt things and fish things and build
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a shelter and survive. And so it's totally fun. I
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: think it's like to your core, it's fun.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? You just feel it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Like, you know, that you're doing something that's like primal
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: human nature. Yeah.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: The Amazon fishing clips that you have on your Instagram page.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Like you just throw a cast out there
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and you were catching a big fish like instantly. Bonkers.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Like I fished a lot of places. I'm really into
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: fishing and spearfishing and every Joe, I'm not kidding. Every
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: single cast was a fish, a peacock bass or a piranha,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: every cast. And where we were in the Amazon, super remote,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: like not a lot of people go there. I'm sure
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: those fish have never, ever seen a lure, never seen
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: a hook before. And, uh, It wasn't like sport fishing.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It was like, okay, let's go catch 10 fish. In
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: other words, take 10 casts and we have enough food.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And that was it. And it was amazing. Does it
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: make you think of what the ocean must have been
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: like before people fucked it up? Of course. I mean,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: of course.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: As a biologist, that's like all I can think about.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Because I was in Hawaii recently and we did some snorkeling.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And when you're swimming around with the goggles on looking
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: down at the ocean, one of the things that's kind
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of shocking is how few fish there are. I know.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Like you think this should be like teeming with life.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: You're over these reefs and you see like three or
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: four fish or five fish or something like that. It's
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: so weird.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are these pockets left in the world
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: that are completely untouched. And it's like, as soon as
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: you get into one, you can see it. You're like,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: this is what it used to be like everywhere. And
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it's like humans haven't had an impact. I don't, you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I don't want to disparage anyone in Hawaii, but I
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: don't think there's anywhere in Hawaii like that because it's
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: all so accessible.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And it's just, you know, I've, I've been fortunate enough
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: to see a couple of these pockets and they're just
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: booming with stuff. And it's like, this is what it
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: could be. Yeah.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's like what it must be
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to just be in the Amazon itself as well. Right.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: In the jungle, not just the rivers and the lakes
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: or whatever's out there, but the actual jungle itself.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: It's, It was incredible. The jungle there. So we were
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in Columbia and Amazon and like talk about untouched by people.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: There's been this kind of ongoing going conflict in Columbia
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: for many, many years. So we're, we were the first
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Westerners to go there in over 60 years. So the
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: village we flew into, they'd literally never seen white people before.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And then we went 200 kilometers from that.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: So, like, middle of nowhere. Did they want to touch you? Yeah, hair.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Because their hair was very dark and very different. And, like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not particularly fair, but just to touch, like, the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: hair and see the blue eyes and stuff, they were
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: just loving it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Were they friendly?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Super friendly. Like, the culture was very stoic. Like, there
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: wasn't a lot of smiling or crying. You know, there wasn't, like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of emotional exchange. But straight away they came
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and greeted us, like, shook hands, you know, said hello.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: It was really cool.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Wow. Now, how do you set something like that up?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Do you have like a liaison that acts as a
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: go-between between you and the tribes?
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we did in this case have one guy
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: who communicated. I speak Spanglish, I guess, and they all
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: speak Spanish from back in the day. So we set
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: it all up. It's part of the wildlife stuff that
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I do. We literally flew a DC-3, a World War
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: II cargo plane, into this cocaine dealer's airstrip.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: What?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: That's how we got there. I mean, like, mind-blowing stuff.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Current cocaine dealer or former? Former. Former, yeah. Well, you know, TBD.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: It's still Colombia, right? Exactly.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that one was really cool, really remote.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: How crazy is it that they learned Spanish from people
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: who came over on boats from Spain and it just stuck?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts?
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: And took over the whole, like, region. Yeah, the whole world.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And here's this tribe in the middle of the Amazon
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: that has this language from another continent.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Well, and Brazil, right? From Portugal. Right. It's really incredible
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: when you stop and think about it. I mean, it's incredible,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: but it's also part of it's a little sad. Like,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you have loved to have heard what their original
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: language was? Oh, absolutely. What it sounded like? Well, they did.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So, it's funny because when they didn't want us to
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: understand what they were talking about, they would switch to
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: their native Indian language. So, they still had... They were bilingual.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: A community of 25 people that have never left and
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: they're bilingual.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Wow. It's amazing. Now... Their native language is what? What
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: It's an Amazonian Indian dialect. I honestly don't even... They
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: might have said the name.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: But I don't recall. What is the name of their tribe?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Also, I'm not even sure. They're so isolated, they're unaware
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: of what country they live in. They don't even know
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that they're in Colombia.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Really? Really.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: To them, they're Amazonian. They're not Colombian, Ecuadorian, Brazilian. They're Amazonian.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Whoa. Yeah. So, they just stay? Like, where they are,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: they stay.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: And the village we were in is literally, I think
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: it's over 200 kilometers from the next village of 15
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: or so people. And they don't have fuel. They don't
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: have motors. You know, they're just in this pocket. And
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: they just substance live.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: And they're all barefoot, right? Yeah. Do they have those
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: crazy splayed out feet?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Big feet, you know, they're not very big people. They're
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: like small Indian people, but really big kind of useful feet.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And the way that, you know, they could run up
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and down trees and climb stuff. I mean, it was unbelievable.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Like so much more athletic than you could imagine.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I can imagine, right? They've been doing that their whole life.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Their whole lives. Yeah. Now, when I say splayed out feet,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about is that people that walk barefoot
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: in the jungle for long periods of time with their
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: whole life, their toes spread out and their feet almost
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: look like a hand. Oh, no way.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I did not, like, pay enough attention. That might have
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: been the case, but I didn't notice it. You just
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: weren't looking at their feet?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, it is kind of a weird thing to
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: stare at dudes' feet. Yeah, for sure. But, yeah, Steve Rinella,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: who's a good friend of mine, told me about that.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: He was in Guyana, and it was the same thing,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and they actually got some pictures and videos of these
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: people's feet. But look at these guys up there.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Whoa. Oh, no, I didn't notice anything like that.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the, that's, how do you say that? Horani? Horani? Horani?
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Sounds right. Horani, you think? Horani. Horani Indian splayed feet. So,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: it's very strange. Like, it's kind of the opposite of
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: what happens to women when they jam their feet into
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: those little pointy shoes. Right. Where they get the toes
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: kind of smoosh onto each other. The ballet feet. Yeah,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: it's horrible. Instead of that, they're all like crazy spread out.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: What in the fuck is going on there?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: The top is hands, I think.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the top is hands. But the bottom is like
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: wood feet.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: But that's got to be like what our feet are
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: supposed to be.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Probably, right? Right.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Thick ass toes that actually have muscles in them that move.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: That you can use like a tool, like your hand.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and these guys just can climb up trees
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: with them. So, they grip the side of the tree
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: with their feet like a hand.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I didn't notice, like I say, the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: feet just like that specifically. But the way they could, like,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: everything's covered in mud down there, right? It's all wet.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: It rains every day. And they could run up and
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: down these tree trunks, like, to get up and down
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the village. And here's me and my crew with our
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: awkward cameras and stuff. And we're slipping and sliding and
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: falling over. And, like, they're literally like, what's wrong with
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: these people? Why can't they walk? We must have looked
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: like infants to them.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Right. And you guys probably have like boots on and shit.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: They get muddy and fucked up. Oh, totally.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We're wearing, you know, muck boots and my one
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: buddy's got waders on and, you know, we think we're
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: all hard and cool because we got all this gear
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: and they're just like running around in shorts barefoot.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It is so fascinating when you see people that don't
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: have contact with the outside world like– I'm sure you're
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: aware of that recent story. The missionary was killed by
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: the people in North Sentinel Island. Absolutely. Which is one
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of the weirdest places because they've branched off from Africa 60,000
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: years ago or something like that. Right. When you're around
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: these people, what do they do if they get injured?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So, funny you ask that because we kind of had
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: that same question, right? And they don't leave. They stay
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: in the village. They have a shaman at the village
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: who blessed us with a crazy green powder, and that's
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: a whole other story. But they have a shaman, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he is their doctor. However, he has no access to
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: any Western medicine. So, it's only his learned knowledge handed
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: down through generations plus jungle powders and whatnot. And.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And that's it.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: So we actually, we spent today, because we had a
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: medic with us, doing like kind of village help, if
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you will. Everybody had ringworm. Everybody had respiratory infections. There
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: were a lot of lady problems in the village that
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: our medic had to deal with. I mean, there was
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of health issues, and you don't even realize it.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to write something down before I forget. I'm sorry.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It's totally unrelated. No, all good. There's a doctor named
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Peter Hotez that's coming on the podcast, and I have to...
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Follow up on him. When you start talking about the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: people in the jungle, he's an actual doctor who specializes
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: in infectious diseases in jungle and tropical climates. And he's like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: everyone's infected with something. Everyone.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Everyone. He'd have a heyday down there.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. It's probably been. Yeah. So when these
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: people have ringworm and all these different infections, do they
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: treat it? Do they have like some natural... cure or
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: some shit.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of a 50-50 like a lot
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of it they don't treat because it's just part of
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: everyday life like when I say everybody had ringworm I
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: meant everybody everybody had it. So I don't think there
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: was any kind of treatment or cure. It was just
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: kind of part of it, part of them, but other things,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the, the, the witch doctor or the shaman
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: was trying to treat. Um, and then we kind of
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: went in and we had like medication for ringworm. So
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: we dewormed everybody and with the shaman's blessing. And he
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: was like super excited to have Western medicine in the village.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: And, Would you use like Lamisil or something like that?
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you. I think it was, it wasn't topical.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I think it was like a Vermox, like a pill
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that you take that kills the, kills the worms.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: The weird thing about that is like, don't you, you
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: leave and then they're going to get it again.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Right? I mean, there's only so much you can do, right?
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Totally.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: That we were having the same dilemma and it was like,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: do we interfere because we're from the outside world?
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Do we help?
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And we talked to the shaman through our translator and
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: he said, please help, please help. So we gave, including him,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: everybody this dewormer, but you know, they'll just come back. Yeah.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And also they probably don't understand the consequences of taking
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: some antibiotic that's going to do some weird shit to
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: your whole biome. Right. Right.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And these are all the stuff too. It's such a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: moral dilemma. You're there and you're like, I want to help.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Do I, is it helpful? Is it hindering? Our medic
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: was like, it's undeniably going to help. You know, they,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: they need this. And so we went for it, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it seemed to help. Everybody felt fine, but we were
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: only there a couple more days before we left. So
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: who knows?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Wow. Now, when you're talking about ringworm, are these guys
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: covered in it? Do they have big patches of it?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: What's it like?
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Feet and legs had big patches of it, yeah.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And if you don't know, that's the same shit that's
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: athlete's foot. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, ringworm and
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: athlete's foot are the same kind of funk. Oh, huh.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: That's why people tell you to pee on your feet.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I thought that was just for fun.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: It could be for fun. It depends on what you're into.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: But I think that's the idea behind it is that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: somehow or another you're killing the bad bacteria when you
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: piss on your feet and you have athlete's foot. That
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: might be horseshit. With me, you always have to check. Yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: definitely give that a little look-see. But it's a real
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: common thing with jiu-jitsu. Gotcha. Just all the mats. Yeah,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: it's real common. Guys get it. People really fuck up
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: where they put bleach on it and a bunch of
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: different things to try to kill it, and it winds
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: up getting worse. It also fucks up all the natural
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: skin flora. Jock itch, athlete's foot, and ringworm are all
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: types of fungal skin infections known collectively as tinea. They're
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: caused by fungi called dermatrophytes. That live on the skin, hair,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: and nails and thrive in warm, moist areas, the jungle.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So it seems like they're just going to get it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: That's just what it sounds like. You know, but still
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: trying to help.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: What do they do for it?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't see them treating that at all. And when
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: we pointed it out, they were like, yeah, yeah, we
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: know about it. You know, they were more concerned with
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: things that were like dire. Like there was an infant,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: maybe not infant, maybe three years old. And he was
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: hacking up a lung. And he was asthmatic, according to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: our medic. So our medic gave them, like, an asthma medication.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And he just said, you know, if he has an
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: attack where he can't breathe, give him this. And, like,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: you know, to be super real with you, when we
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: walked away, our medic was like, I doubt he'll live
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to see adulthood.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Yeah. And were you giving him inhalers? Did
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: you give him?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure, to be honest, what it was that
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: he left with him.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And what about, like, injuries? What if they break a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: leg or something like that? What do they do? I
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: don't think anything. Yeah. Was anybody, I mean, you got
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to think these people are climbing trees.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: They must constantly fall, get bitten by stuff. There's tons
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of venomous snakes out there.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: It's wet. It's muddy. It's slippery.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: They're building stuff out of very rudimentary tools. I mean, it's,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: it's nuts. They have to get injured.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting that we have this understanding of medicine
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and doctors and hospitals, but that's probably pretty fucking recent. Oh,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Of course, yeah. I'll tell you a story, Joe.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I was in Myanmar late last year, and we're down
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: there filming this thing, and this kid, like 22-year-old crab fisherman,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: gets bitten by a crocodile. Crock grabs him by the arm,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: grabs him by the thigh, and death rolls. So it
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: breaks the arm in like, I don't know, 15 places.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Compound fracture, the real deal. I can show you pictures
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of it. It'll blow your mind. And we hear about this,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and we're minutes away. It's kind of one of the
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: similar situations where the first Westerners would be there in
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: a long time, We go bombing over at high speed
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: and we get there and the mom is like off
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: mourning the death of her child, but her child is
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: sitting there still alive. Like they have written him off.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And mom is literally mourning the death of her child.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: And he's lying there conscious, but like in total shock. Fortunately,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: just because of the situation, we had a speedboat, everything else.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: We bandaged him up, you know, tried to keep his
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: arm stable and his leg stable, put him in our speedboat.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: And it was six hours by speedboat to a village
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: that had a, or to a hospital, really. And so
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: he got there and his life was saved. But I asked,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: we asked the people in the village, what.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Were you going to do?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: And they're like, there's nothing we can do.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: So he was just going to bleed out or go septic,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and that was the end of it.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Ooh, what a fucking rough way to go. Right? Ooh.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: How did he get away from the crocodile? I don't know.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I think he was just hitting it or hammering on it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: He was crab fishing in the water, and it came
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: up and grabbed him, rolled a few times, and at
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: some point he escaped. How he even got back in
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: the boat and made it back to the village, I
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: have no idea, because his leg was shattered. His arm
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: was shattered.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: It was brutal. And it was a canoe.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like he had a little motor or a
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: wheel to drive. He canoed back.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: One of the most disturbing stories I ever read was, um,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: these guys were kayaking in an African river and the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: guy in front of them got grabbed by a crocodile
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and that it went under and like it like plunged
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like a bobber as the crocodile pulled him out of
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the kayak. Yeah. I'm like, fuck. It's awful.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Imagine being the guy behind him and watching that shit.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Just watching. Yeah. And knowing that you're pretty much helpless.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Did you see any Jaguars or anything?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Uh, I've never seen a Jaguar. I've seen a lot
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of lions. I'm from Africa. I don't know if you
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: knew that, but so I've seen a lot of lions
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: growing up. My family did safaris. Um, and then I've seen,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: you know, mountain lions here in California, leopards, stuff like that.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I've never seen a wild Jaguar.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Really? Even when you were in the Amazon? I think
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: they're really elusive.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I know there's areas that are hot spots. All of
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: the locals were very nervous and kind of knew about them. Like,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you know, I went out for bushwalks at night and stuff,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and I'd just go me and one guy with a camera,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: and they were like, oh, be careful, like, peligroso, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: very dangerous, don't do it.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: But... Peligroso means very dangerous? Peligroso. Peligroso. Danger, yeah. Oh, cool.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: And so we'd just go and, you know, I'm not
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: trying to act like we were tougher than them or anything.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: We would love to have seen one, but they were
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: very aware of them. So they were there. We just
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: didn't happen to run into one.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Sort of like mountain lions. Exactly.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Like they say that mountain lions are like if you
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: live in a place that has them, you know, Wyoming
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: or Colorado or something like that, they know where you are. Right. Right. You,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they might be around you all the time and you
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: might rarely see them. Exactly. Maybe driving home and see
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: one skittering into the, into the bush.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: There was a nuts video. I think it was from
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the LA area. Did you ever see it where the
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: security cams picked up this mountain lion that was walking
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: through this like very residential neighborhood and you'd see like
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: people would walk by and then 30 seconds later, he'd
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: like dip out of the shadows and then dip back in.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And then the next set of people would walk by
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and nobody had any clue he was there.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: It's crazy that a giant predator can move around like that. Right. Yeah.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So when you're there, like, What would you have done
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: if someone got bit by a venomous snake or a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: spider or something like that? Did you guys have any anti-venom?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Were you prepared for something like that?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's my department, right? Like, as the wildlife guy,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: that's kind of my department is make sure nobody gets bitten,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: make sure nothing like that happens. And we handled very
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: many venomous snakes and caught anacondas and all kinds of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: great stuff. We did have, like... My main camera guy's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: name's Mitch. He got absolutely lit up by these wasps
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: one night. And we all were. We got like 12,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: 14 stings each. But I look back in the canoe
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: at one point and his eyes are just super swollen.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: He's bright red. He's sweating. I'm like, Mitch, you okay?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: He's like, uh-uh.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: His throat started to close up. He was having an
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: allergic reaction. So we had to hit him with antihistamines.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm not actually sure if the medic administered the
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: EpiPen or not. But he was like, we're in the
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: middle of the jungle. We're six hours from a village
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: that's then a full day's travel distance. By a charter
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: plane from a hospital. I mean, middle of fucking nowhere.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And his throat's closing up. And that's why we take
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a medic with us. Thankfully, we had this emergency medic.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: He administered the antihistamines, and Mitch was okay. But these
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: things do happen.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Do you ever, like, while you're on these crazy adventures,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: do you ever out there going, this is the last one? No.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: No way, man. I love it. I live for it. Wow.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: How long have you been doing this?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, like for TV, for Animal Planet, three years,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I guess. But to go on X, the reason I
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: got into that and doing it for TV is because
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I've been doing it like my whole life. I grew
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: up in Zimbabwe. My mom was a bush pilot. So
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: when we weren't on safari, she was like flying us
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: these remote places in the middle of bush and we
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: were going out on safari. And like, as long as
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I can remember, this has been what I do.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Now, when you go on safari, are you in those
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: open Jeeps? Walking safaris. What?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Dude what are you doing.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Uh we take a 458 an elephant gun okay put
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: it on your shoulder that helps walking safari.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: God damn man only during the day right obviously cannot
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: move at night and what do you do when you're confronted.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I mean i've had some pretty close calls uh my
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: wife jess who's here with me i saved her from
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: a hippo oh yeah we've had some pretty close calls.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Fuck man one of the scariest pictures I ever saw
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: was this guy, this African guy running down the street
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and a hippo was chasing him. And you look at
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the size of the hippo and you're like, good Christ,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that thing is huge.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Joe, they are the scariest animals on earth. Like, interacting
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: with a hippopotamus they're so erratic they're so unpredictable if
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: they feel threatened at all i mean they're just this.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Video is fucking bananas oh yeah this is this guy's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: on a motorboat and the hippo is swimming after him
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: like a torpedo.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: So this is where i'm from this is zimbabwe really yeah.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So is this common that they swim that fast.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: They can move i mean this is that this is
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: uncommon to have one chase the boat and come that
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: close but.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Uh fucking big it is man yeah So when you've
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: had these close encounters, what do you do? You shoot
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: at the air? You shoot at the ground? Scare them away?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Fortunately, I've never had to put an animal down, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I know people that have.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: That's the picture. Look at that. That's it. That's the one.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: What in the fuck? How fast is that big bastard run?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: You'd have to look up the exact speed, but definitely
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: at top speed, definitely faster than human, but they don't
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: have the maneuverability. You know, you can kind of duck
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: and dodge behind trees.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: So just don't run a straight line. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Fuck that. 19 miles an hour. Yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: What does a person run? A rhino runs 31. Jesus Christ. Jesus.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: A fucking cheetah can run 75 miles an hour? Uh-huh.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I thought it was like 50. Uh-uh. Fuck. Yeah. 75?
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: A crocodile is almost as fast as the fucking hippo.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're quick. Oh, my God. 18 miles an hour
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: for a croc. Fuck that.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Top speed for a sprinter is around 21, 22 maybe.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: But that's not sustained.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's also a sprinter.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: A sprinter.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Not a doughy white guy like us. Fuck. Jesus Christ.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So you just, if you're chased by a hippo, is
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: there a move that you do? Do you just have
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: to go left and right? Zigzag.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Maneuverability.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So like when we got chased, we got behind a
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: termite mound and then it kept going straight.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: You're hiding behind termites. Yeah.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Nothing says safety like termites.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, dude. That's so crazy. Fuck man. Is
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: that the, so that's the scariest thing in Africa in
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: terms of like interacting with human beings.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You know what the scariest thing in Africa is?
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Mosquitoes.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Of course, right?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: All stuff you can see, all the big wildlife, you
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: can kind of feel it out and you put yourself
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: in the bad situations. Mosquitoes, there's nothing you can do
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my buddy Justin Wren, he runs Fight for the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Forgotten Charity. They build wells for the pygmies. He's been bitten.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: He's gotten malaria three times. One time he got it
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: like he didn't even get bit again the malaria just
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: returned so it must be in some way systemic.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I think i believe it is i don't i don't
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: never had it knock on wood my grandfather had it
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: but i know that it's it it wrecks you for
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: life like it can come back you can get it
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: again yeah it stays with.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: You i think that's his situation and he's a professional
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: athlete he's actually a fighter for bellator he's one of
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: their uh heavyweight contenders.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Damn yeah has he said that it's affected his performance No, I.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Don't think it has. I think he's been okay with it.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: You know, he received treatment, but it's definitely wrecked him
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: on three separate occasions where he was, you know, basically
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: on death's door. Right, right. And one of them was
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: when he was flying back. Damn. You know, and he's
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: just sweating and just rotting out in the inside. Oof. Awful.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So you want to ask what scares me?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I would, I'll take a hippo, a snake,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: a croc, a leopard, anything over that. Yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Malaria is terrifying. They say malaria has killed more people
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: than anything ever. Really?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Malaria has killed half the people that have ever died.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. That's insane. Just make sure that's right.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: That might be bullshit too. It sounds good. I think
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: it's real. I think, I think, I think we actually
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: have Googled this before. The malaria has literally killed 50%
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of all the people that have ever died. That's insane. Yeah,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: it's nuts. I mean, people are worried about so many
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: different things. You should be worried about mosquitoes. Well, apparently
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: they're trying to genetically engineer mosquitoes to be devoid of malaria.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: And they hybridize, right? So my understanding is the way
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: that it's done is They genetically engineered the males to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: reproduce with the females, which are the malaria carriers. And
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: then the offspring of that generation can no longer carry malaria.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. Okay. Malaria killed half the people who've ever lived.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: That is bonkers. It's a myth. It's a myth.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: It would have had to kill.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: It says like five and a half million people on
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: average per year, every year for all of human history.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: And that's not.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I think it kills half a million a year. I
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: think the real numbers like half.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: It says it would have to be five and a half.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So it's just one of those things that
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: people say. I like it. I should probably shut the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: fuck up. But what else is new? So how many
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: people have they killed?
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: A lot.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. We'll go with a lot. So are there other diseases?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, is that like typhoid and shit? Isn't there
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: like a fucking case of typhoid in California now? Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: we've got some weird situations in this country with measles
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: returning and polio returning. Ebola came in. Yeah. What the hell?
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Typhus outbreaks expands in L.A. and Long Beach.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Jesus. Cool. Thanks for having me down here, Joe. Congratulations.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Did you notice my hand was sweaty when we shot?
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: They're different.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: It's different?
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: It's similar but different. It's not typhoid. It's typhus. It's
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: a flea-borne disease that can be treated with antibiotics or something.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm terrified of Lyme disease, too. Have you had lime? No,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: but I have a gang of friends that have had it,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and it wrecks them.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Well, you spend a ton of time hiking around and.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Stuff out here, yeah. Well, California doesn't have much lime,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: but East Coast, it's horrific.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: It's like everybody that spends time outdoors in the Northeast
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: seems to get it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know what you can do about that.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: There was a vaccine that they were doing for a while,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: but one of my friends, her dad actually got Lyme
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: disease from the vaccine. Huh. Like, he didn't have it,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: got vaccinated, and wound up catching it from the vaccine.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And I think they were like, okay, fuck this vaccine. Sorry.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Because they had it for a while, I believe.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Jeez.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's no fun.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So, when you were a kid, you were doing this. Like,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you've been involved. So, this is like the family business? Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Sort of.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: My family business, it was my mom's business, actually, was
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: safari businesses. So, like you say, sit in a Land Rover,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: see the animals kind of thing. And they did a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: little bit of tourist walking safaris, but then I grew
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: up on a farm in the outskirts of Harare, Zimbabwe.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And then whenever I wasn't in school, I was on
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the farm, running around barefoot, catching snakes, fishing, yada, yada.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And then when my mom wasn't booked up, she had
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: this little bush plane that she used for safaris, and
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: we'd just adventure all over Africa.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Wow. So, it was a great childhood. That sounds amazing,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: but fucking terrifying.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like one of those things where it's
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: what you're used to, right? I found moving to the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: States at age 14 and, like, trying to find my, like,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: place in the world and being this weird little private
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: school kid from Africa way more terrifying than going to
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: meet a tribe in the middle of the bush.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Really? For sure. Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Why? Um.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Like, I'll give you examples. Like, I always carry a
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: pocket knife on me, right? My first day here in
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the States, I go to school, pull my pocket. I'm
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: sitting in my, like, uniform because I went to a
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: very proper English boarding school. Pull out my pocket knife,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: start cutting my apple. Fifteen minutes later, I'm in handcuffs.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, what did I do?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: What did I do?
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I literally had no idea what I had done wrong.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: It was because I had a knife at school. Everybody
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I had ever been to school with had a knife
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: to cut their apple. Like it was the standard thing.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So here I am with like police and, you know,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: guns and badges. And they're throwing me in handcuffs and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: taking me out of the school on day one in America.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is the scariest thing I've ever seen.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even learn until later that day that
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: it was because I had a pocket knife. And at
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: no point did I think having a pocket knife was
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: a bad thing.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So they didn't tell you?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: No, they just grabbed me. There was, like, this whole thing. Like,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: the knife went flying. I was chained up. And I
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: was like, what's going on? What's going on?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And they're like, you're in big trouble. And I was like, why?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: And, you know, it was like little culture shock things
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: like that that to me were, like, something I'd done
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: every day my whole life. And now I'm, like, getting
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: thrown in juvie for it kind of thing.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: When you think back about that, do you think that's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: just the consequences of being in a large population? For sure. Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, we.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Like I say, I went to school every day with
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: a knife. There was no violence issues. There was nothing
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: like that. But then you come here where, you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: there's stabbings and stuff like that. And it's because, you know,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I lived in a tiny country with a tiny population.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Do you think that it's possible that, I mean, it's stupid,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: but there's no way. you could live like that over here.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way you can have kids with
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a bunch of knives. No, I don't think so. Not
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: with this culture.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think so at all. I think that would
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: be terrible. And I get it now as an adult.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Nobody talked to you about it before you left the house? No.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: My mom didn't know.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: She's from Africa. You know, she's like, here are your things.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Here's your knife, son. Cool, I'll put it in my pocket.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Make sure you sharpen it before you go to school. Totally, man. Wow.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: So you were doing these, always doing these walking safaris?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: You started out doing the driving ones and then eventually
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you started doing the walking ones?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: My family business did walking safaris. They didn't do hunting.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: It was all photographic. And we were in the Zambezi Valley.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So Zambezi River is one of the biggest rivers in
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the world. So we do these walking safaris and then
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: we did canoe safaris as well, which is why I
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: have so many hippo and croc stories because we'd be
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: canoeing down the Zambezi River and then taking photographs and
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: seeing wildlife that way.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Wow. What a crazy way to grow up, man. It
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: was awesome. Your relationship to wildlife is just so different
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: than the average person in this country. For sure. It's
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: very intimate. Like I.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have, like regardless of being a
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: scientist by trade, I feel like I have a very
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: intimate understanding of animals because I grew up completely surrounded
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: by them.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Now, what other countries have you explored?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I'm over 60 countries now.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Damn. Yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: So a lot, all for wildlife work, whether it's for
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the show that I do or for biology contracts before
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I did the show or just because, like, for instance,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: when I got done with college, I was like, I
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: had a little tiny little business starting college, sold it
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and was like, I'm going to travel the world and
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: try and photograph these animals. And I went to 28
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: countries looking for wildlife.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Did you have something to do with looking for the
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Tasmanian tiger? Yeah. Yeah, I did. What do you think?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I think of all the extinct animals that have gone
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: extinct at the hand of man, given the range, I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: don't know if you know this, but the Tasmanian tiger
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: at one point ranged from Papua New Guinea all the
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: way down to Tasmania. So not just the island of Tasmania,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: but thousands, tens of thousands of miles. I think given
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: the range, the frequency of sightings, the amount of untouched
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: habitat in Australia and Tasmania and Papua New Guinea, where
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: they just found a new dog species, by the way.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: They did?
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Highland dog in New Guinea, maybe a year
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: ago now. Incredible looking animal.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Like, absolutely.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Could there be a very small remnant population of thylacine,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Tasmanian tiger, hiding out in an isolated pocket of habitat?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I totally think it's possible. And these sightings, are they
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: coming from credible sources or?
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: So, I did one expedition. I've done two expeditions looking
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: for thylacine. And one of them, I was literally talking
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: to the man who is the head park ranger for
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: like the entire North Queensland. So, he's a scientist by trade,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a biologist by degree. And he says, I saw four
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: You know, so this isn't like some crackpot drunk who's like, yeah,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: they're here. You know, this is a guy who is
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: like myself, a scientist, a biologist, and spends his life
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: in the bush. He knows every animal in that area.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And he goes, I saw four of them.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: So, like, how do you not, like, I get goosebumps
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: talking about it because how do you not, like, take
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: that as credible?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: No, that's about as credible as it gets. Whoa, look
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: at that cool looking dog. There it is. What a
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: freaky looking, the world's rarest and most ancient dog has
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: been rediscovered in the wild. So, this New Guinea Highland
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: dog was thought to be extinct. Is that the idea?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Wow. So, this thylacine, this area is where they are.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Has there been a concerted effort to find these things?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Sort of.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's, it's one of those things where like,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I would say the thylacine is like the icon of
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: animals coming back from extinction for Australia, right? It's kind
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: of like everybody knows about in Australia, they all care
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: about it, but where these efforts are is like outside
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of Sydney or, you know what I mean? It's, it's
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: close to home. So there hasn't been a lot of
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: expeditions really deep in to look for them. And that's
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: what I did. So there's so much belief that the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: animal is still out there that the, uh, Shoot, it's
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: the university in Cairns. I'm blanking on the name of
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: it right now. The university itself put money towards funding
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: to find it. So when you have a credible institution
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like a university going, here's money, go and find this thing.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: You've got to think, and I'm not a big conspiracy theorist,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: but you've got to think they have some intel that says, look,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: we're not wasting our money to look for something that's
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: not there. We've heard something. We've seen something. We caught
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: something on a trail camera. Let's prove it. And so
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I actually teamed up with... They caught something on a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: trail camera. Hard to say. But what they did do
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: is fund this expedition. So myself and the university, who's
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: still ongoing with the research, went and looked in this
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: area in North Queensland where I went.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: And how far deep did you go in? 1,200 miles. 1,200 miles. Yep.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Took 14 hours driving and then hiking from there.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Whoa.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. 14 hours on dirt roads. Because this is the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: area where they've incited the most numerous.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: This is where that sighting that I was talking about
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: came from, from the biologist, as well as I think
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: four other sightings. The community up there is a place
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: called Portland Roads. You could look it up. I think
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: it's 12 people and live totally, not like the Amazon
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: off the grid, but off the grid. You know, it's
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: all like solar energy and build it yourself. There's no
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: power lines, blah, blah, blah. So, it's just this small
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: group of kind of like people in the middle of
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: nowhere and almost everybody in that community has seen them. So,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: that's where we based it out of and then went
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: deep from there.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Almost everyone in the community? Mm-hmm. And no one's took
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: a photograph that they have cameras?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Everybody's, you know, everybody's got a cell phone kind of thing,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: but it's like, it's always the same story where it's like, yeah,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: it was there. It was late at night. By the
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: time I reached in my pocket, it had gone off.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Except for the biologist I was telling you about who
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: said it ran around with his dogs.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: He's out camping and he's like, oh, there's this red
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: eye shine and my dog goes nuts and runs over there.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And then there's four thylacine jumping around with my dog,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: like for like 15 minutes. And he's like, I'm trying
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: to get a picture. And, you know, that's, it's like
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: 300 yards away. It's in the dark and without the
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: flashlight and the phone and like.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Fuck.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's basically a hundred percent of this thing's alive.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, as a scientist, you can never put that number,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: but to me, yes. That's why I've done two expeditions
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: and I plan on doing more. I feel it's out there.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Like it's a gut feeling.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: That it's there.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Did you ever see that, there was a Willem Dafoe movie? Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: The Hunter?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: The Hunter, that's right. And he goes and shoots the
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: last one.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: Bastard.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: It was a weird movie.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It was a weird movie.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: It didn't really work, right? The movie was off. It
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: was very strange.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And there was like a scientific reason he had to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: find it or kill it or, I don't know, it
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: was weird.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Someone was paying him, wasn't it? Didn't someone hire him
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: to do it?
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: But wasn't there a, like, he was a bounty hunter
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: for the animal because it had some weird genome or,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I don't remember.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I don't remember either.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: It was weird.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's how they died off, right? People hunting them?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Put a bounty on them. That's how bad it was.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: When settlers came to Tasmania, which was the last stronghold
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: for them, they were killing sheep and sheep farmers things.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And the government was like, get rid of them. You know,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: put a bounty on them.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And what year was this?
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: You'd have to cross check. It's been a while since
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I've read up on that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: But the last ones died off in like the early 1900s, right?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: That's right. In a zoo. Yeah. they're all freaky looking animal.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: There is one set of footage from it ever from
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: the one in the hobart zoo and it's you look
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: at it's an insane looking creature it's yeah just nuts.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: You got that try to play the video it's not playing.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Oh it's not playing um yeah it's a freaky animal
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even look real it looks like a like
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a cross between a tiger and a dog or something.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And it's and it's kangaroo by venetics it's a marsupial
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: so it's got a pouch and it's just so weird
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: stripes and That's a.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Strange thing about Australia and that whole area. It's like,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: what's this marsupial thing, and why didn't that catch on
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: anywhere else? Dude, look at him. There's that freaky thing.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: And wait till you see, there's a shot where he
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: kind of turns his face and does like a yawn,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: and you'll see he can open his jaw the way
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: like a snake does to almost 180 degrees. I mean,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: it's bizarre.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to swallow. Well, coyotes are kind of like that too.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Not quite so extreme, but when you see a coyote yawning,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: you're like, what the fuck? Look at that. Oh, that's
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: so crazy.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Isn't that insane?
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a crocodile almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: a strange animal, man.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with him. I'm totally fascinated by him.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope you get a photo of these fuckers.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Me too, man. So in that area, did you guys
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: set up trail cams?
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: We did 200 trail cameras.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the university that we partnered with, who
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: didn't go as remote as we did, but they're still
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: doing a big area, I think they have 10,000.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: 10,000 trail cameras.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Something crazy. Maybe it's a thousand.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: It's a huge number. So what do you do with those?
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: How does that work?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So you do like a grid pattern, right? So you
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: know how a trail camera works.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Motion's activated, blah, blah, blah. So they just, they literally,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: here's the mountains, here's whatever. And they set out all
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: these like undergrads and they're like, place one every 300
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: meters pointing, you know, in this direction, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And they just do a grid and they do that
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: for a month, two months, whatever it is, collect them
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: all and then move to the next grid and then
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: move to the next grid and just blanket the area.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And I think I could be wrong on this, but
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I think the search that they're doing, that university is
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: going to be the most comprehensive trail camera survey ever conducted.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: And so as far as you know, they don't have
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: a photo of one yet. As far as we know,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: but think of it this way. And again, I'm not
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: a big conspiracy guy, but if you're.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: If you're at a university, it might be when it's
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: like my, that's probably as close as they have.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of these could be, but there's a
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: new one that just came out.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: See, to me, that's a mangy Fox. That's not a thylacine. No?
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Look at the base of the tail is very thin.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: It's carrying in an upward curve instead of straight. Like
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: if you look at a kangaroo's tail, it's very flat.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of fox problems in Australia where they're introduced.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Could be wrong.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: You know, as a scientist, I try not to get
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: too excited when I see something that I'm like, this
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: is it.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: It's hard to tell because of the way the grass
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: makes it look like he's got stripes on his back
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: like a tiger. Wow. A trail cam has captured an
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: image that has excited Tasmanian tiger hunters to the possibility
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the animal may roam freely across Australia. Wow. How big
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: is that thing?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: They're like coyote-sized. Very similar to a coyote in size.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So... Don't you think though that if they had definitive
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: footage that they would release it to try to get
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: more funding?
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Dude, the problem is footage isn't definitive anymore. Like two years,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: last year, I got a photo of a leopard in Zanzibar.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: The first time in 25 years, the animal was declared extinct.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And we caught a video, not even a photo, a
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: video of a Zanzibar leopard and took it up the chain.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: And they're like, unless we have genetic proof, the animal
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: remains extinct. So I think, you know, It's so.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Hard to say.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: And Willem Dafoe. Yeah, yeah. Come on, Will.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think, you know, if the university had something,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: they're trying to get enough data to really present a
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: case as opposed to, like, you know, throwing up a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: flag over something, one individual thing.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Is there a concern that a bunch of amateur wildlife
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: hunters would go there? What is this, Jamie? There it is.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: That's my leopard. Oh, that's the leopard.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. Did you, have you seen that photo or
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the footage rather of the jaguar that they found in Arizona? Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: That's really interesting too, right?
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Amazing.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: They're starting to make their way up from Mexico.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: It's such a weird region that, because here's this huge
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Sonoran desert that you think none of these tropical animals
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: can make it across. And for whatever reason, Southern Arizona
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: gets jaguars and Kota Mundi and peccary and all these.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Like tropical animals. Yeah. What, what the hell? I don't
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: know the answer.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: What the hell's going on that all these rainforest creatures
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: are making it through this thousand mile stretch of desert
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: and into Southern Arizona?
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Probably bored. Could be. Looking for cool, cool places to visit. Yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe they, I mean, maybe it's just like
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: a natural instinct to roam and expand your territory. There
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: he is. Yeah. Look at that thing. That's amazing. That's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: an incredible animal. So beautiful. And it's huge. Huge. They're
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: 200 plus pounds, right? It's a big fucking aggressive cat.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: What's bigger, a jaguar or a leopard? Leopard, right? A leopard, yeah. Yeah,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and that's even bigger. But it's such a beautiful animal too.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And apparently they were all over North America. Jaguars? At
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: one point in time. Yeah, like that area, like Texas
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and Arizona. During the Pleistocene? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I didn't
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: even know that. But when did they, I mean, they
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: were pushed- out of i feel like that might not
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: be true though i feel like they were they were
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: more numerous in like arizona and like the southwest.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Makes sense i mean you know we had so much
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: megafauna here back in the day um there would have
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: been a lot of prey for them.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Now because of the fact that you spend so much
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: time in the wild and you know and that you
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: have this uh interest in these uh what would you
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: call it, cryptozoology animals?
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not a crypto guy, so just to be clear,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: and nothing against crypto guys, but I don't do Loch
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Ness or Bigfoot or anything. I'm a true wildlife biologist,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: so I only focus on wildlife. So not to interrupt you,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: but I'm just very, very structured in the sense that
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I really only look for animals that we have an
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: understanding of.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Well, yeah, the Bigfoot one is the most compelling,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: but also probably the most bullshit animal.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I think there's a mix there. I think people believe
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: that they've seen certain things. Do I think that there
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: could have been large primates that we attribute to Bigfoot?
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Whether they're still here or not, whether people have ever
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: seen them, I'm so not well read on that.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting, though, that if there was one, it
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: would probably be the most spectacular find ever?
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, we have chimps and bonobos. We have all these
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: things that are real.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Well, because there's so much like lore and culture associated
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: with it now, right? And not just like our Western culture,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: but like cave paintings of big hairy creatures and like everything.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, it would be like this mind-blowing discovery.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Have you ever went and looked for the Bondo ape?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: No, I know what it is, but no, never gone
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: and looked for it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: They're sure that's a real thing.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've got skulls and hair samples and photographs and video.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And for people who don't know what we're talking about,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: it's a gigantic chimpanzee. Right. Like a six-foot-tall chimpanzee, which
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: is just fucking nuts. And it does walk erect, right? Sometimes, yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: There's a camera trap photo. There's a guy named Dr. Carl. No,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: he's not a doctor. I think his name is Carl Harmon.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Carl something? Carl Harmon. Harmon, is that? Amon. Amon?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: A-M-L-A-N.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Carl Amon. And he's a Swiss wildlife photographer? Anyway, he
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: set up a bunch of camera traps, and he got
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: one of them walking. He got one. Amazing. It's freaky.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: And there's some photos of these gentlemen that shot one
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: near an airstrip. Huh. And it's fucking huge. You don't
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: know how big the men are. Right. They might be
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: small and it's in front of them. But it is
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: without a doubt like one of the biggest chimpanzees you've
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: ever seen in your life. It's insane.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: They have a crest on their head. Their skull has
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: a crest like a gorilla. Huh. Yeah, it has like
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the bone of the skull. It kind of fuses up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Do you have a picture of that? I'd love to
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: see it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with the anatomy of them.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because I think for the longest time,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: they didn't think they were real. It's a part of
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: that Michael Crichton book, Congo. Okay. Remember, there was a
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: really terrible movie. I know the book as well. Look
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: at the size of that fucker.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's insane.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's one of them.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And that doesn't look like forced perspective.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: It looks like they're right in front of them.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And that's one from the early 1900s, I believe, where
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: these guys shot one and they were like, what is this?
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: This is just giant champ. Go see if you can
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: find the one of the, there, right above is the
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: one where it's walking right there.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's the camera trap. Wow. The thing walking. And
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: he's erect. Yeah. He's erect and he's You know, these
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: people that one of the sightings, they saw one walk
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: by a truck, like walk across a road. They said
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: it was the same height as the truck. That's insane.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: So they have like, you know, like a Toyota Helix
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: or something like that. And it's literally the height, like
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: a six foot tall man, but a giant chimp.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, to go back to the
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Bigfoot thing, you can totally see where we get that from, right?
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: You look at this huge primate that's the size of
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: a human being. And your brain instantly goes, it's mythological.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure that they didn't have photos of
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: this thing until the 20th century, like the late 20th century.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: No kidding. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, it's a trip, man.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: They nest on the ground like gorillas. Like a gorilla. Yeah. Wow.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: And the locals have two different names for chimps. They
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: call them tree beaters and lion killers. And the tree
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: beaters are the ones that are up in the trees,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: the smaller chimps.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And the lion killers are these big ones. That live
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, and apparently there's some either video
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: footage or there was some eyewitness account of one of
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: them eating a leopard. No way. So it was a
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: dead leopard that they were eating, whether or not they
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: killed it or they found it. but they were eating
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: this fucking thing.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Regardless, like to be a primate at the top of
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: the food chain, eating a big cat.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's nuts. It's nuts. Would you ever think
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: of going there and trying to find those things? Fuck yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: They're deep in there. Great. Yeah. I think they're in
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: a place called Beely, Beely in the Congo. That's where
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: they think they are. They've, isolated a population of them there. Really?
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: My mom just got back from the Congo and she
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: still does like her own adventure stuff. And she was saying,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: it's just like, she's been all over as well. She's like,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: it's mind blowing. Like there's so much remoteness and unstudied
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: area that there could be all kinds of things.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: God damn, man. Now, what, what kind of medication do
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: you have to take if you're going to go there?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Because you have to take some anti-malarial stuff, right? Dude,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I'm a pin cushion.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Like I've had so many shots and pills and You know, like, preventative, obviously.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I actually don't do malaria medication. I just cover up
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: because it messes with your brain. I don't know if
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you know that. Like, they say the modern ones aren't bad,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: but the malarone, like, you have hallucinations at night. You
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: have crazy sweats, like, especially if you're in hot sun. So,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I would rather be more focused, especially if I'm working
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: with reptiles or stuff like that that can, you know,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: envenomate me. So, I try to stay away from it
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: and just cover up.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Wow. Is there a specific type of clothing that's like
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: anti-mosquito repellent clothing or anything like that?
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I just do long sleeves and some bug spray.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: And do you do a mask as well?
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: No.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: No? That's silliness.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I look silly. It does look silly.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: No, I just do, you know, good old DEET.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: God, that stuff's got to be bad for you too, though, no?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: It melts you.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Like, if you get it on, like, say, these things,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: it will melt the paint off of the headphones. It's
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: so strong. It's probably worse than the Malarons.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Have you ever used a thermoset? What is it called? Um, fucking,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: is it called a thermoset? I think that's what it's called. Um, it's, um,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: it's a device that heats up. It's got like an
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: element inside of it and like a little bit, a
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: little canister of, uh, gasoline. And you put these sheets.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: And it releases this very fine mist that you can
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: kind of smell, and mosquitoes fucking hate it. No way. Yeah,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: we used it in Alberta. Huh. Alberta has very aggressive
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: mosquitoes when they're out.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: When they're out, they're out. It's like clouds of them, right? Yeah,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: because they're only alive for like three months. Right. It's
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: like Alaska. You ever been to Alaska?
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: It's the worst mosquitoes I've ever seen.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Crazy, right? They can like pick you up. Yeah, they're
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: like their size of pigeons and they're fucking everywhere. Totally.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I went fishing with my friend Ari and we pulled
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: up the car and we got out of the car
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: and we opened the car door and within seconds, a
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: swarm of mosquitoes was inside the car. It's insane. And
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: we were screaming like, what the fuck? This is crazy.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: It's like something out of a Stephen King movie. Like
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: there's clouds and they, I, yeah. That's why you asked
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: me what I'm scared of.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: It's that.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Fucking clouds of mosquitoes, man.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Well, we're very fortunate we don't have malaria here in
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: the United States. Yep.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Because if it made its way over here somehow... You know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I wear this fabric you're talking about, Thermosel, called HEX. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: H-E-C-S.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: H-E-C-S, HEX, exactly. And I wear it for a lot
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: of reasons because I definitely feel it helps me get
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: closer to wildlife, but I've noticed mosquitoes do not like it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: So that's one of my cover-ups.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Explain what a HEX suit is for people that don't
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: know what we're talking about. Sure. So it's this.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: interwoven carbon grid that actually holds the body's electrical energy
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: and capacity, like the door of microwave oven, like a
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Faraday cage.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: And so you, you naturally emit electrical energy. And then
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: when you wear this clothing, it's got this conductive carbon grid.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: And when you touch the ground or something, it grounds
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: it and releases all the energy. So birds migrate using, yeah,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: there you go.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Now, has it been proven that this stuff actually were,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it has been proven that it has an
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: effect on the electrical energy that you release, but has
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: it been proven that the animals can actually recognize that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: electrical energy with certain animals? Yes.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: So we know that electro reception is certain wildlife is
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: capable of it. Birds use it to migrate. Sea turtles
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: use magnetic poles to migrate. Um, they just discovered, I
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: believe 2014 that lobsters antenna have electrical detective sensors. Um,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: electro reception is the word. Um, so it's proven on
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: some things, not everything, you know, our understanding of animal
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: behavior and animal adaptability is constantly growing. So it's passive.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I wear it because it's a passive technology. It's like,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to wear a shirt anyway. Why not wear
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: one that might or might not help? So I feel
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it helps.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: My friend, John Dudley is a bow hunter. Yep. Pretty
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: famous bow hunter. I know John. Yeah. Okay. And he,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: he swears by it. Yeah.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: He wears them constantly. He's like, it makes a big difference.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I think so. You know, like I'm, I'm not hunting.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get close to stuff and interact
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: with it or find something, but I feel it makes
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: a difference. You notice a difference personally, especially with birds. Um,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I've noticed a huge difference. I've noticed a huge difference
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: in the water. Some mammals I've noticed a difference. Um,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I, I like John, I feel like it's,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: it helps me get closer and you know, it keeps,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: keeps the energy down.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Like you're emitting all this energy, you see this bear
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is, your heart spikes, your adrenaline goes
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: and it, it keeps that in capacity. So I think,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: We sense that. I think certain creatures sense that, and
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I like to keep that out of the equation.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Right. I guess it would be that there is something
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: coming off of your body, and it probably would be
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: an advantage for animals to be able to recognize that
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: just because we can't quantify it and put it on
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: a scale or weigh it or something like that. There's
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: probably something going on. Predator prey, right?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Like if you're a lion and I'm an antelope and
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: my adrenaline spikes and my heart's going and, you know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you're going to come for me, right? But if that's
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: out of the equation, the energy stays reduced.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the weirder videos, some of the
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: weirder videos that I've seen, I should say, is people
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: that are interacting with predators, like people that have like
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: coyotes come right up to them while they're wearing those things. Yep.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: And turkeys as well.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Totally. Like I said, birds, because birds have that in
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: their brain. They have I'm going to quote it wrong,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: but they have something that they can detect electrical signals
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: of what helps them migrate around the world. So for sure,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: I think it makes a difference.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: So what else do you use? You use the hex suit.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Ton of different tools, man. I mean, I customize stuff,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: you know, like in the Amazon, we were looking for
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: caiman and type of crocodile. So I built like a
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: beefed up dog catcher that I use to try and
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: lasso them. I have a snake hook on me at
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: all times.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: A snake hook? Yeah. What's a snake hook?
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: So it's just this like, it's like a golf club
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: with a hook on the end. So I can work
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: with venomous snakes without it reaching back and grabbing me.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: It doesn't restrain them. It actually like their body sits
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: in it. I do a lot of reptile stuff. So
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: always have a snake hook on me. I mean, the
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: list goes on. A ton of trail cameras. I use
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of thermal imaging stuff, especially looking for wolves
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: or something like that. Wolves are active at night. It's
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: really hard to get a shot of them. Put a
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: thermal bird in the air, and you can see these
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: animals running through valleys.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: It's cool stuff. You'd love it. Well, I'm fascinated by wolves.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I think wolves, to me, are probably the most interesting
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: animal in the wild. Cannids, man.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Wild dogs of all kind are unbelievable. They're so at
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: the top of their respective food chain.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of coyotes around here and basically
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: they're little wolves, the little sneaky wolves, but real wolves
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: like wolves in Yellowstone and wolves in the Northwest area
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: of the United States. They have got to be some
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: of the most majestic animals. Oh, they're fantastic. Because they
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: operate together.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Always.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Yep. As these packs. Yep. You know, so there's some
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: sort of weird kind of communication and.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: And what's amazing is like the social dynamic, like within
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: the pack, you know, the hierarchy and then on a hunt,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: like you go left, I go right, but without any
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: verbal communication and then coming together and making a kill.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's mind blowing stuff. You know, you talk
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: about not understanding wildlife. We don't understand how they do that. Right.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Right. We don't understand what kind of communications going on.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's some sort of like telepathic or
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: is it just a facial and recognizing cues and patterns
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: that they've established before? If they see an animal, they
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: know to flank it.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: I definitely believe it's that. Like, I definitely believe there
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: is an intrinsic understanding of you go left, I go right.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: You know, facial recognition. You know, your expression tells me
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: to do something.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: You're dominant. I'm passive.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: You know, learning that way. But I also think there's
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: something more than that. Whether it's telepathic, whether it's a
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: low frequency sound that is not audible to us, I
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: have no idea. But I do think it's more than
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: just visual cues.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: That's where apparently the myth of the werewolf comes from
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: is that wolves are so smart. They think that wolf
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: and a person were like combined together. I, I don't
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: believe that per se, but I can see how that
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: came up. You know what I mean?
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: It's totally, they're so smart. African wild dogs are the same.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Like they, they hunt in these huge packs. They go
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: over these massive areas and then they'll push a single
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: animal into one area to make the kill.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: And they're not big animals.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: They're again, like a coyote size, but, And they'll take down,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: you know, a kudu or some huge antelope. I mean,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: it's incredible.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Well, African wild dogs are so cool looking, too, with
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: those black spots and the yellow and all the... Stunning.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: They just, they look angry. They look freaky looking, you know?
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I think they're my favorite of the... Like, you love wolves.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I love African wild dogs. I just think they're so
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: beautiful and majestic and unusual. And they're just such a
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: cool animal.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all of
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: them come from the United States. I think all of
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: them originally came from North America. Canids? Yeah, all canids
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: came from North America. I think that's Coyote America, the
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: gentleman who's been on the podcast before. What is his name?
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Is escaping me right now. But he wrote about it,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: about all the various– was it Jackals?
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: Dan Flores.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Dan Flores. That's it. That is a fascinating book.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to write it down. I'd love to
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: read it.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: It's great. And I did a podcast with him years
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: ago that's excellent too. And he has all sorts of
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: crazy insight as to Native American, North American animals that
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: went somewhere else like horses. Like horses were native to
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: North America, but they weren't here when the European settlers came.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: They went extinct. They had been taken. There were other places.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Like apparently wild horses from Europe all originated from North America.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: And were taken over and then brought back.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Somehow or another. Wow. And then went extinct here. And
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: then were reintroduced with the European settlers. Huh. That's interesting. Crazy, yeah.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing like with what I do looking
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: for extinct animals or proof that they're still out there
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: is like, There are so many stories like that. I
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: didn't know that one in specific. America is very well
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: covered with eyeballs. But what's to say there isn't some
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: remnant small population somewhere in the middle of nowhere that
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: nobody has found these horses that have been untouched by
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: human beings for millennia? And that's what I do. That's
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: what drives me, right? Find this pocket. Find this animal
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: that's been hiding out undetected for thousands of years. Yeah.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: So what other animals are you looking for? A lot.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Like we're talking about primates. I'm going to Borneo to
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: look for an animal called the Miller's grizzled langur.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: It's a type of monkey. I just got back.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I was looking for an extinct caiman in the Amazon.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: An extinct caiman? Yeah. What's the difference between that and
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: the caimans that you see?
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Just a different species. You know, just like there's many
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: types of crocodile, there's many types of caiman. You know,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: you have saltwater crocodiles, now crocodiles, same thing with caiman. Um,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: and I was looking for one with a very weird
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: morphological variant. It looks very, very different to any other.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Um, what's what's different about it.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: It's got a very elongated snout. Um, if you've ever
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: seen a gharial, if you know what that is type
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: of crocodile with this long, crazy nose, it's like the
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: alligator family, the Cayman family version of that, this really
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: long skinny face, super light, super yellow coloration, just very different.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Last time one was seen was 52 years ago. And
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: then they had one in a zoo that died in
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: the eighties and nobody's found one since. So just really cool.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, the list goes on. You know, last
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: year I did leopards and I did wolves in Newfoundland
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: and a bunch of really interesting stuff.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: So it's fun, man. You'd love it.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: You should come with.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to animal planning. I'm scared. I'm such a pussy.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: What about giant sloths? What are your feelings on those?
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: So I've had probably three years of research into this,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: into giant sloths, because Manapuguri, I believe is how it's said.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: It's the South American name for giant sloths. I don't
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: want to give away too much info before I get
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: to do a chance at looking for it. But after
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: all the research I've compiled, there is, in my opinion,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: one location on Earth. It's in high Peru where nobody goes.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: It's a bowl of mountains, impenetrable. The only way in
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: is a helicopter in the center. To me, that bowl
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: is going to be like a primordial Eden. All of
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: the cultures surrounding it have Old stories of giant sloths.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: They all have different names for it, but they all
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: have these stories of these giant sloths, right? They were
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: all hunted to extinction. However, they've handed down these traditions,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: but nobody except for, you know, a tiny handful of
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: like far out tribal people have ever really got into
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: this impenetrable bowl. And I think if they're anywhere, they're
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Wow. I saw a documentary once about this scientist that
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: was essentially risking his reputation trying to find a giant
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: sloth somewhere, maybe in the Amazon, somewhere.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Probably Peruvian Amazon. That's where I'm thinking too.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: And he kept talking to people that had seen it
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: and he never could get a hold of it, but
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: he had been there for years. Isn't that crazy though? Like, why? Yeah.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: If you're a little.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Amazonian villager, you don't read, you don't have TV, there's
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: no reason to make up scientific, you know, science fiction.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Why say you've seen it?
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Because you like to fuck with white people. Could be.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Could be. Like get that dude with his stringy hair. Yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I've seen that thing. Oh, dinosaurs?
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: Fuck yeah.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Come on, I'll take you. Five days in, you're exhausted,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: covered with mosquito bites. He's like, any day now. We're
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: almost there. Just over the next hill. He's just going
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: to wait for you to fucking rot out. That would
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: be a mean man. That's a mean guy. That's a
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: mean guy. Leave you on a log. All right, buddy.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Pat you on the back. This is the last spot
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: And I'll be taking this.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll take your binoculars. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: no reason for them to lie, but that doesn't, that's
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: like the thing that people say about everything. Why would
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: someone lie? Well, I don't know. People lie for a
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: bunch of weird reasons. People do it. People are crazy.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: They make shit up. True.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's like you have
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: to take an eyewitness report of an extinct creature or
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: a crypto creature with a grain of salt, but you
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: still have to take it.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: You still have to bank it and consider it. And so,
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the way I go. I always talk
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: to people, but then I come up with, I do
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: the biology, right? I track, I put the cameras out,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I bait, I scent, I do all of that stuff
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: to try and get evidence of my own, because just
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: going with eyewitness reports is, like you say, it's nothing.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Is there ever been any eyewitness reports that are just
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: too ridiculous? Oh, for sure. Like what? Oh, man, loads.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, talk about the thylacine, for instance. There
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: was a guy that we met there who's like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: there's thylacine everywhere. They run around with the black cats.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: And we're like, what?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, there's Black Panthers too. They like hang
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: out together.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Black Panthers in Australia? Exactly.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I made the same face you did. So I'm like, okay,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: tell me more. And he's like, yeah, you know, they
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: like to hang out over there. They're behind the trash heap.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: They jump around with Black Panthers.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're just fucking with you.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, that's the thing. I'm like, you're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: either crazy or you're completely fucking with me. And I'm
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: not sure which one it is because your eyes are
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: telling me crazy.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, how many different pockets in the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: world are there like that basin that you said you
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: got to get helicoptered into? There's a few. There's a few.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd be surprised because, you know, we're here.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: We're in a city.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: We're so used to our modern conveniences. But there are
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: totally untouched pieces of the world still.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Well, do you know David Cho, the artist? I don't.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: He went to the Congo. I think it was the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Congo to look for a dinosaur. No way. It was
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: a really early vice piece back when vice was first
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: starting out. And David is one of the more eccentric
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: people that I know. He's a multimillionaire, made a shitload
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: of money gambling, and also he made a shitload of
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: money because he, was it Facebook? Yeah, he painted Facebook.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? Like the wall? Yeah, the inside.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: They hired him to paint, like do these murals, and
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: they gave him stock. And that stock wound up being
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And so now he's
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: just this. freaky, super talented artist who is just doing
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: weird shit. And one of the things they did was like,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Hey man, you want to go look for a dinosaur?
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: He's like, fuck yeah, I'll go. Absolutely. Why wouldn't you?
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: But there's this video of him. I want to say
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: he was like 25 at the time too. I think
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: he was pretty young. Yeah. Look at him there.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: So he's in the jungle in search of a fucking
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: dinosaur because, and it was one of those things where the,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the locals were saying, Hey, there's a, there's a dinosaur
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: in the Congo, right? Which, Doesn't totally make sense, but.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: But who knows, right? Why not investigate it kind of thing?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, how big of an area would there have
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: to be for there to be a species that we
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: are not aware of? Like, how big of an area? Oh,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a generic question because we discover, you'd
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: have to look up the numbers, but it's like 2,000
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: new species a year. But little stuff? But mostly little stuff.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: There's an animal discovered, most recently there's an animal called
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the saula. It's an animal that I'm actually working on
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: later this year. And it is a, an antelope. Like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: they call it the Asian unicorn. Cause for generations, people
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: have been talking about this Asian unicorn and Western world's like, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: And then finally somebody went down there into the Laotian
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: mountains and, and was like, here's a skull and here's
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: a skin. And they're like, holy shit, this is a
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: real thing. And this is like in a pop, not populated,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: but there's plenty of people living there.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: This isn't like, this isn't like the middle of nowhere.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: This is where there's villages and tribes and people. And
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: they're like, here's this animal, here's a skin, here's a skull.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: And since then, I think one trail camera has, the
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: photo has ever surfaced. Like nobody's ever successfully documented it
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: because it's just this incredibly elusive animal. Like, whether it
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: has super sensory organs, you know, hearing, sight, smell, whatever
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: it is, or it's just super low density in population.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Nobody really knows. But this animal, this huge, like, antelope
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: has been around forever. People, little tribal people have been
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: talking about it in, like, a mythological way, the same
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: way they would talk about dinosaurs in the Congo. And
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: the Western world's going, sure, buddy, whatever you say. And
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: then somebody finally goes down there, does an expedition, just
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: like David did, and goes, oh, it turns out it's here.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: What is it about animals where we're so fascinated by
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: the ones that might not be real or that might
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: be hidden? Like, what is it about them? I mean,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: people love to study giraffes and things that are absolutely real,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: but they also have an even more compelling need to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: search for things that are not quite sure if they
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: exist or not. I don't know, man.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's like, it's human nature to want to
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: know more, right? Like we, of course, like not everybody,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: you see a giraffe, you're like, it's real, I know it,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: banked it, right? Some people go to the extreme, they
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: study every aspect of it. But as a general populace,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like once we know something's there, we want
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: to know what the next thing is. Yeah. I mean, we,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: what do you think? Like what, why, why is it
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: that we're so fascinated with it?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. I think it's probably a
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: side effect of our compulsion for innovation. Like, human beings
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: are constantly trying to find out new secrets and find out,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like, find out new discoveries and invent new
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: things and explore new worlds.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is just something that's been a part
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: of human nature forever, this desire to improve. Right. And
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: to go further, find the next best spot. Sure. Find
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the new thing. You know, and then I think that
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: also works with animals. I think we have this desire
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: to find animals that we didn't know are real or
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: weren't sure are real.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Well, knowledge is the foundation of that, right? To go
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: to a new planet, we have to have the knowledge
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: of how to get there, right? To go to a
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: new habitat, we have to know what's there. And I
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: think maybe that's kind of that deep-rooted desire is like
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: we need to know about this thing in order to
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: understand if we can innovate off of it.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. What did you think when they found
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: that Flores man? In Indonesia? It's amazing.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm not an anthropologist, so, you know, that's not quite.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Has that been 100%... Is that 100% agreed upon?
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I've only seen kind of headlines. I'd have to defer
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: to you guys.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: I think there was one... There was some scientist that
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: was disputing, but essentially they were talking about a three-foot-tall,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: hobbit-like man kind of thing. Cave-dwelling little person. Existed alongside
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: human beings as recently as like 14,000 years ago. Right, right.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Which is like, what?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's completely believable. I mean, the Khoisan people
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: in the Saharan desert are tiny.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: How big? Like four feet. And until the.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: You might have to double-check this, but I believe until
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: the 70s, people used to go and hunt them.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was earlier. It was 60s or 50s.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: But you could go and hunt this primitive-sized human being as, like,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: a hunt, like an old Englishman with his big mustache
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: and his musket would go hunt these people.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: And now we have an understanding that, you know, they're people. Like,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: you can't fucking go and hunt them. But, like, what's
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: to say there weren't tribes like that all over the
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: world that other people used to hunt that drove to extinction?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Ooh. Jesus Christ. Right. Say the name of it again. So, Jamie,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: you got it? Khoisan.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Khoisan, yeah.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Let me see what these people look like.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, they're beautiful. Like, you'll see what you think.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: But they're very small. They're desert dwellers. You know, there's
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: not a lot of resources in the desert, so you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: don't get huge. So, they're perfectly adapted to the desert life.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: They really used to hunt them?
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: And they look just like people? I mean, you'll have.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to find a good picture.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: But they're still around. Like these aren't an extinct race.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: They're still there.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you ever seen the gods must be crazy?
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: It's like those people, those were kind of taller Khoisan,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: but those are Bushmen.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Wow. So who are these people that used to hunt these?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Like I say, I kid you not, it was like
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: the old English explorer would go and conquer Africa and
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: hunt these people like they were an animal, you know?
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Fuck. Crazy, right? And this was until the 1970s?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: That might not be right. That sounds too recent, doesn't it?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: God damn, that sounds horrific.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you might need to check that. But it was
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: not as long ago as you'd think.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: It was like very recently they were still under hunting.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: And they're people.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Yeah, so that's probably what happened to a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: lot of the non-homo sapien human type people. I would
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: think so.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: And even if it's not like for sport, it's for
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: competition or resources or, you know what, any reason.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: And that's human nature.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Conquer. Yeah, fuck, man. That is so dark. Right? They
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: would go and hunt small people with a rifle. Yep.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: You know, are there photos of people like posing with
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: the dead ones? Um, again, I'm not an anthropologist. I'm
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: not sure. Yeah. It's brutal. Yeah. So what other pockets
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: of the world are like mostly unexplored or could perhaps
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: contain some of these animals?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: South America, for sure. Central Africa, for sure. There's some
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: very remote parts of like Russian Arctic, Norwegian Arctic. There's
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: areas in Asia that are still unexplored, believe it or not,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: regardless of their populace.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: There really are.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Deep, deep China. There's some very unexplored areas. Northern Myanmar,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: ecological hotspot. Nobody goes there. Very impenetrable.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: I read something about some part of the world where
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: they thought pterodactyls might still exist.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: There's so many of those things. I don't know that
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: one specifically. there's especially doing what I do I hear
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: them all the time right oh you gotta go look
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: for bigfoots or pterodactyls or whatever mammoths it's could there
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: be a large reptile that perhaps flies sure it's possible
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: is there a pterodactyl as we know it I highly
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: highly doubt.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: It but a large reptile that can fly would be
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: a fucking trip they were around. Right. So do you
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: think it would be something that we don't know about? Yeah, basically.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: I think there's enough pieces of this world that are
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: unexplored that there are still megafauna to be discovered. Not
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: a lot, not a lot by any means. And I
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: might get ridiculed as I go back to my scientific
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: community for saying this, but my belief is there are
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: these isolated pockets where small populations of megafauna still exist
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: that we don't know about.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Whoa. Yeah. Well, South America is, I mean, how much
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: of South America is actually populated?
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you look at the size of the Amazon
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: jungle or something, and it's, sure, there's communities and stuff,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: but not that much. I mean, Australia, you know, if
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: you're not on the coast, there's nothing.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: You know, there's all these huge chunks. Papua New Guinea,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: same thing. Nobody goes up into the highlands there. They
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: just found a dog there, as you saw. I mean,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: there's crazy stuff.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Now, what do you think about these guys that are
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: talking about bringing animals back? Like, as a scientist. Sure.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: De-extinction is... It's a weird word. It is. It is.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: It's a weird word. Reintroduction? Is that a better word? No.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: They call it de-extinction. Is that what they call it?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: That's what they call it. Yeah. De-extinction is.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: To me, it's fascinating, especially if it's something like, say,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: the passenger pigeon, right? We used to have billions of
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: them in the United States. Wiped them out, and now
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: they're saying, you know, we can take the closest living relative,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: isolate some genes, and make a new passenger pigeon. Is
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: that worth it, because it's something we wiped out in
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: the last hundred years? Yes, I feel like that's, we
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: should heal the ecosystem by putting that back, right? That
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: being said, we still need to learn from our mistakes.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Like we need to take into account what we did
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: and why we did it. And like, do I think
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: there should be a Jurassic Park and a bunch of
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: mammoths and T-Rexes?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. That's a waste.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: Whether we can or cannot do it, to me, that's
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: a waste of scientific resources that could go towards conserving
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: things that are on the brink.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Now, when you say like heal or mend the environment
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: or the ecosystem, when you would bring back something like
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a pasture pigeon, isn't like 90% of everything that ever
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: existed extinct?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: So does the ecosystem adjust and evolve? And would reintroducing
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: something like a passenger pigeon, would it kind of fuck
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: things up that exists now where new animals have taken
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: a different position on the hierarchy?
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: It's too short an evolutionary time. So we are in
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: what's called the sixth mass extinction event, right? There's been
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: five others before us. The one we're in now, it's
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: happening at 80% greater rate than it's ever happened before. So,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: we are wiping out things more quickly than the world
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: can adapt. So, you know, you go into an environment
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: and you take out all the apex predators, the prey explodes.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: The prey explodes, the grass gets eaten down, everything collapses. Now,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: if you left that environment over time, over evolutionary time,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: it would adapt, right? Maybe say all of the predators
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: got a disease and they died out over 300 generations.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: During that time, something would evolve within the environment to
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: adapt the prey so that it didn't wipe out the environment.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: That's just kind of the nature's balance. But when you
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: go in there and do it in 10 years or
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: five years, it throws off the equilibrium. So, when you
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: In theory, when you reintroduce something that's been, and it's
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: not theory, it's science. They've shown this even right here
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: in the California Channel Islands. When you put something back
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: that's missing from the ecosystem, it's like you're putting a
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle back, right? And then you can
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: allow it to do its thing over evolutionary time.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: What did they do in the Channel Islands?
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: So I was actually a big part of that and
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: I loved the project. So the California Channel Islands were
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: settled by agriculture. There were sheeps, goats, pigs, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: There was everything brought over there, right? And so not Catalina,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: but think about the Northern Channel Islands. Um, what happened
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: was when all these animals were brought in, all the
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: farmers were there, then golden eagles started coming over. Golden
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: eagles came over to eat the pigs and everything else.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: They flew across the ocean? Yep.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Flew across the channel, started preying on pigs and everything else.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: There was an animal on the channel islands called the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: channel fox, very gorgeous, cute, cuddly little fox. You can
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: see them if you go to Santa Cruz Island. There's
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: loads of them now, thanks to the work that scientists
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: have done. Anyway, they were like, okay, the fox is
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: being– there it is. Isn't he gorgeous?
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Look, a little cutie face.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: So the fox is being wiped out through habitat destruction
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: through all these undulates that have been brought in. So
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: scientists got together and said– What undulates?
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Like cows?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, domestic animals. Cows, sheep, goats, et cetera. So scientists
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: came in and said, you know, the habitat's getting destroyed.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: And that's just the keystone. There were several species that
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: were on the decline. The livestock is wiping out the habitat.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: The foxes are declining. What do we do? Well, obvious answer,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: let's remove all the livestock. So, we removed all the livestock, right?
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: Through helicopters, there was a lot of pigs that were
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: causing damage, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: We removed it all.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Then, the golden eagles started preying on the foxes because
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: their main habitat was gone. So, now the foxes are
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: under even more pressure. So, then we removed the golden eagles.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: This is a very abridged version of what happened. But
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: now we've got... The golden eagles also pushed out the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: bald eagle, which are fish eaters, which lived on the island.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: So now after loads of years of removing golden eagles,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: like relocating them, removing all of the livestock, now you
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: have a healthy population of Channel Island foxes.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: The bald eagles are back.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: They're eating fish. The whole ecosystem is back in balance.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Had it been left the way it was, what you
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: would have found at the California Channel Islands over, say,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: 20 or 30 more years, 40 or 50 more years,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: no foxes, no bald eagles, a ton of golden eagles,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: and a ton of pigs, and likely over time, Pigs
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: would have exploded to the point that they Easter Islanded themselves, right?
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: They ate up all the resources, destroyed all the habitat.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Population collapsed. Golden eagles collapsed. Nothing left on the island.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by Easter Island themselves?
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: So you're familiar with Easter Island in South America?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: I know what those statues are and all that stuff,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: but I'm not familiar with what happened to the island.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: So that island was an ancient civilization that was the Mecca.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: It had everything. Offland.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: It had big trees, tons of food, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: People settled there. And they said, this place is incredible.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: It's paradisiacal. And then they started cutting down the trees
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: to fish. They started eating all the mammals. And what
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: actually happened is because they were so remote, the middle
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: of the ocean, nowhere near South America, nowhere near anywhere else,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: they cut down the last tree. there were no more
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: canoes there was no more food on the island and
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: the population collapsed the island was barren it was void
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: of trees void of life void of anything and they
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: they didn't have the canoes or anything to leave anymore
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: because they cut down the last tree to build build
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: a boat or make firewood and everybody there died oh
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: shit so that that's what happens when you use up
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: every last resource.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: God so.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Wow when did this happen I couldn't tell you.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: Because I thought it was like a mystery to what
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: happened to the population of Easter Island. So they're pretty sure.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: That this happened. That's the scientifically accepted understanding.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: And did they get this from fossils? They get this
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: from bones? So they've sort of pieced it together?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: Yep. They take isotope samples and measure carbon data and
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: yada yada. I think the heads are still a pretty
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: big mystery. Why? I think certain people believe that the
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: heads were... like, you know, calling to the gods to
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: help save things because they were going so badly, yada, yada.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: But I believe the heads are still a pretty big mystery,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: but the actual anthropology, the population, the collapse is known
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: to be due to running out of resources.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: How long did it go for? Couldn't tell you. Do
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: they have an idea of how long the population lasted?
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's all published, yeah.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know off the top of my head, but
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: it was a thriving population that, you know, flew too
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: close to the sun, as they say.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: Because of Easter Island's small size, only 63 square miles,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: it quickly became overpopulated and its resources were rapidly depleted.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: When Europeans arrived on Easter Island between the late 1700s
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: and the early 1800s, it was reported that the Moai
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: were knocked down and the island seemed to... Did I
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: say that right? Moai? You don't know? Knocked down and
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: the island seemed to have been a recent war site.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Lack of supplies. Yeah.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: See the next one there?
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Constant warfare between the tribes, lack of supplies and resources, disease,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: invasive species, and the opening of the island to foreign
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: slave trade eventually led to Easter Island's collapse by the 1860s. Wow.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: So it didn't take long. 1700s to the 1860s. That
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: was a wrap. Wow. It was annexed by Chile. And
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: so they've never tried to repopulate the island with trees
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: or anything else, and they just kind of leave it alone?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I believe so.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: I know you can go there and visit it and
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: see the heads, and I think there are some things
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: there now, but it's barren.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: There are no trees. There's no, you know, it's all
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: been depleted. It's so crazy when they introduce animals to
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: an island and it winds up fucking everything up, like
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: Galapagos Island. I'm sure you're familiar with the Judas goats.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Judas goats? Are those the ones in the Galapagos?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: Do you know how they do that?
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: How they eradicate goats? It's really interesting. Not from the helicopters? Yeah, well,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: this is how they do it. They cast, goats like
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: to hang out together, right? But sometimes it's hard to
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: locate them. Sure. So they put a radio collar on
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: one goat. They castrate it and then they let it loose.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: And they gun down all the goats around it and
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: let that goat go find the rest of the goats.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: No way. He goes and finds the rest of the
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: goats and they gun down those goats because they have
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: the radio collar. Yeah, so these, what is this, Jamie?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: It's a picture of a Judas goat, I guess.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: He's just white.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's what, hey.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe how sad is that single goats life he's like
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: new friends what the fuck yeah helicopters so i'm actually
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: heading there on uh monday the glove goes yeah they
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: make you take your shoes off right scrub to make
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: sure that you don't have weird seeds in the bottom
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: of your shoes i have to stop eating seeds quarantine
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: for 48 hours when we arrive.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Stop eating seeds so you don't shit it out. Exactly. Wow.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Quarantine for 48 hours.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Wow. Why is there so much concern about this one area?
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's the dawn of evolution. You know, it's
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: where Darwin came up with the theory of evolution due
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: to the finches. It's it has been destroyed in some
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: aspects and it's been, uh, the habitat has been fixed
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: in a lot of places. There's been great conservation efforts and, Personally,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: I love what they're doing because they're trying to keep
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: it pristine. You know, I think it's fantastic that there's
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: a quarantine. I think it's great that I'm not supposed
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: to eat seeds for two weeks before going there. And
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: it's to keep it as perfect as it is. Now,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: the island that I'm going to with my small team has, like,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: nobody ever stepped foot on it. It's an active volcano.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: It erupts every year. It's this crazy, harsh environment. We
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: have to have a new pair of boots every day
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: because it melts and shreds your boots just walking on it.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Whoa. Yeah.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: It's been described as hell on earth, so I'm stoked. Wow.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: Now what kind of protective gear do you have to
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: wear other than your boots?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: Just long sleeve clothing.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, how hot does it get?
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: It's so the guy was telling me it's like 45
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: degrees Celsius.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: So that's, it's well over a hundred.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, and that's, you know, we gotta be
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: careful about water and hiking and there's just, there's a
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: lot of elements, but that's the thing is I'm looking
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: for an animal nobody's seen in a very long amount
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: of time. So you gotta go to these places.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: Nobody's going. Wow. That's incredible. You know, it's interesting the
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: idea of invasive species too, right? Because like Hawaii is
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: a good example. Hawaii, there's been talk of getting rid
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: of pigs. Yep. And a lot of the natives are like, well,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: slow down because if we hunt them, we eat them. Right.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: And if they're invasive, then what are we? Right. Totally.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: Because the pigs were here right around the same time
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: the people were there and we've existed together. They need
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: each other. Yeah. And it's culture.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: You know, at that point, it's Polynesian culture to eat
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: a fire roasted pig and hunt your pig. And so
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: it's a delicate balance. Like Hawaii is a perfect example.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: There's monkeys that were introduced that destroyed the birds and, uh,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: there's turtles, there's frogs, there's all kinds of things that
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: have been brought in there, but none of those are
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: culturally significant. Whereas the pig, as you're saying is a
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: huge cultural significance. So where is the balance?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Um, Well, one of the best examples of that would
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: be like Lanai because Lanai has this insane population of
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: axis deer. We go and bow hunt them there every year.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: They're delicious and they're plentiful. And it's one of the
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: most really ethical hunts because you have to hunt them.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're so overpopulated. There's 20,000 of them on
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: an island with 3,000 people. Yep. And have you ever been?
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: Tilini I have, yeah. I was diving there, spearfishing there.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Do you see all the axis deer?
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: Everywhere. It's bananas. It's crazy.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: And they're so beautiful with their spots and yeah, they're
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: amazing animals. And you know, I'm all for it. Like,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: hunting is a tool for conservation?
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, but it's just bizarre that they did that.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: They decided to let deer loose on an island with
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: nothing to eat the deer but people. Right. And then
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: when this was done, it was like King Kamehameha, which is,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: what year was that? I couldn't say. A long time ago, yeah.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: Long time ago. So, back then they I mean, I
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: don't even know if they had guns. I mean, how
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: were they hunting these things back then? Bows and spears,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: I presume. Probably, right? And they brought them over from Asia, right?
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: Yep. They're from Asia.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: Same thing with New Zealand, right? There's axis deer. There's goats.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: There's all kinds of things. Or not axis, but red deer.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: There's all kinds of things down there. Yeah.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: And same thing.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: They're all brought in for sport.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. New Zealand's a weird one, right? So is Australia.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: They brought a lot of stuff over there from Europe.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: But New Zealand specifically, they were trying to make it
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: like a hunter's paradise, right?
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: And I think it is, right?
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: Tell me if I'm wrong. No, it is. But it's
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: a weird one because it's mostly high fence.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Dude, you're going to love this. So, on to my
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: extinct animal thing. They took moose into New Zealand. They
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: took like 10 of them. Small population. Believe that they've
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: been hunted out. You know, they shot the last one, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: There's one guy, crazy looking dude, long hair, long beard,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: like nuts looking guy. And he's been on the hunt,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: not hunt, hunt, but like trying to prove that the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: New Zealand moose is still there. He's found antler sheds.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: He's found bedding sites. Some guy even got a picture
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: of one standing on a rock and you know, moose
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: to me, it's 100% of moose. And so they're in theory,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: somewhere down the South Island, there's one or two or
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: three of these super elusive moose that have been in
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: New Zealand for like 50 years.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: Whoa. Wow. Well, New Zealand is so fucking rugged. Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: There's a friend of mine has been there. My friend,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Adam Greentree, he's been there. He lives in Australia and
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: he goes there to hunt tar. And, you know, they
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: live in the- On the steep. The steepest, craggiest shale
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: where the rock's real slippery and it's just like cold
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: as shit and really high altitude and You've seen them before, right? Yeah,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: I have. They look like a science fiction animal.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: As me and the guys I work with like to say,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: stranger than fiction. You look at it and you're like,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: that's not a real creature.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Like some kid drew that. Yeah. Like a big old shaggy,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: weird looking thing. This is the.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: Area where they think they are in New Zealand.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: The moose? Yeah.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: Did you see that picture of the one on the
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: rock sticking out?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Tell me that's not a moose. That's a moose.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: That's the last one that was last picture taken.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: 1952.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: There's a recent one, though. There's one from like two
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: or three years ago. And I looked at it. I'm like,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: that's a moose. Like, I don't know who's saying it's not,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: but it's a moose. Wow.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. From 1952. Mm hmm.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's 100% a moose. Right. But again, how weird
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: is it that there's animals that you know are there
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: and then there's animals like, we must find this. So
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: they spend incredible amounts of time and all these resources.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Is that it? That's one. Oh, yeah, that's 100% a moose.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: That's a freaking moose. That's no doubt about it. See?
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. God damn it, people.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't even make sense that anybody would argue that. Right.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty clear picture.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: But that's not proof because they need genetic material.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: They need fur. They need something. What do they think
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: that is? A cloud? A cloud? Exactly. A rubber moose
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: that someone stuck there to goof on people.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: Are they like arguing that somebody could have computer generated it?
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: Just to fool people. All those, you know, all those.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: And I appreciate it, right? As a scientist, I appreciate
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: the fact that you have to have proof.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: But it does get to the point of ridiculousness.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's certainly possible. Yeah. I mean, it's certainly
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: possible that they've, I mean, especially when you're looking at
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: that insanely dense terrain.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: But so there are some efforts right now to try
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: to de-extinct some animals. There are. Thank you. Yeah. Give
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: me that new word. And like, what is currently going
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: on right now?
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: They're calling it the dawn of de-extinction. And it's a
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: lot of very, very intelligent genetic scientists that are trying
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: to isolate specific genes that are specific to the animals
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: that have been extinct and and putting them into extant animals,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: animals that are still here, to basically make this Frankenstein animal,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: because it'll never be the animal that's gone, right? It
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: will look like it, it'll behave like it, it'll think
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: like it, etc. But it will never actually be the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: animal that we've lost, at least not yet. We haven't,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: we don't have that technology. Right now, what we can
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: do is isolate a genome, put it into an existing
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: animal that gives birth to an animal that Looks and
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: acts very much like the extinct animal.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: But it's some degree different because it's like part, like
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: a mammoth, for instance.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: They would have to take some DNA from a mammoth. Right.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: That they would somehow or another get and introduce it
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: to an embryo of an elephant.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: And then the elephant would give birth to a very hairy,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: very large tusk like these isolated genetic codes elephant. And
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: it would look like a mammoth. It would act like
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: a mammoth. But the reality is it's a shaggy elephant
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: with big tusks.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: Right. So if you did like 23andMe on it. it
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: would show oh it's mostly elephant but it's a little
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: bit of a mammoth.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah I mean if you think of a double helix
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: like a DNA strand right you have these little bars
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: in the middle of it so what they do is
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: this is a very crude way to explain it but
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: they pull out a bar from an elephant and they
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: put in a bar from a mammoth and then eventually
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: you get this mammoth.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: And so this would be with like gene editing tools
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: like CRISPR or something on those lines exactly wow and
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: so how far away are they from doing this.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's been successfully done a couple of times.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: Yep. They've given birth to a couple animals that are very,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: very close to the extinct animal. Most of the time,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: there's problems, right? It's infertile. It has lung issues, whatever
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: it is. There's a couple different cases. I'm not a geneticist.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: I'm a wildlife biologist, so I don't really understand it.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: But they've done it. They have successfully reproduced things that
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: are gone, basically cloned things, and then the animal hasn't
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: made it to adulthood.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: Man, that seems really, really like playing God, doesn't it?
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: It is. It is absolutely like playing God. So I
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, are people doing it just because
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: they can? Is it one of those things? Or is
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: there like a real valid scientific reason for trying to
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: reintroduce these animals or de-extinct them?
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Well, the valid reason is to conserve the ecosystem, right?
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: Like we talked about. But I think it goes back
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: to what we were saying half an hour ago, which
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: is it's just that quest for knowledge that can we
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: do it? The innovation, right? Can we play God? Can
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: we fix it? Can we take this thing that's gone
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: and say, no, it's not. Like we have the tools
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: to make it not gone.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was some article that I read where they
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: were talking about reintroducing the mammoth to Siberia and that
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: there would be some ecological benefit to reintroducing the mammoth
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: because of the way they forage for food.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: They would have some sort of an effect on global warming. Sure.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: Do you know about that?
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that specifically.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: See if you can find that, Jamie. Reintroducing the mammoth
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: to Siberia to benefit the environment.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: Look whether that's accurate or not until you put mammoths
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: on the ground how do we actually know it's a
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: great theory and that's what science is right it's coming
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: up with hypotheses and then trying to prove them. And
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: it sounds cool. Like, do I want to see a
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: mammoth walking around Siberia?
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: Fuck yeah.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: But does that mean it's actually good for the world?
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Hard to say. Could bringing back mammoths help stop climate change?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Scientists say creating hybrids of extinct bees could fix the
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Arctic tundra and stop greenhouse gas emissions. I don't understand that.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: I find it hard to believe, to be honest.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just some scientist's clever way of sneaking it
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: in because he wants to play God. Like, yeah, we're
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: going to fix everything. Yeah. Fucking use coal. Who gives
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: a shit? Yeah. We got mammoths.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: We got mammoths.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: Just give me the funding. Give me the funding.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: Exactly, man.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: Trying to make mammoths.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: That's sadly very real.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Well, is it really? Oh, yeah.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, if you're a scientist, right?
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: You, Joe Rogan, is a scientist. how are you going
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: to make your career? Are you going to make your
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: career by raising money through being like, yeah, sure. Like
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I'll study cricket legs. Or are you going to be like, look,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: give me the money to stop global warming by bringing
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: back fucking mammoths. Like, you know, like why you can
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: make the outrageous claim if you think it's going.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: To fund your research.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: That's how you make your bones. Right.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: And that's, that's one of the sad realities of some,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: certainly not all science.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Well, mammoths too are so iconic. It's such a freaky
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: animal to study.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: You know, we had them here, California channel islands.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Pygmy mammoths. Yeah. How long ago was that?
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, I want to say pre ice age, not actually sure,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: but I mean, still, can you imagine like, you know,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: you're out fishing at Catalina and you look up and
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: there's a pygmy mammoth on the cliff.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: There's a, there's so many mammoth tusks in Alaska in particular.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: There's a, there's a, an Instagram page. We can, I'll
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: send it to you, Jamie. Um, there's a, a page
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: where they go and look for them. And they basically
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: use like a high pressure hose and blow them out
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: of the side of a hill.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Is it like in ice or is it in like earth?
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: It's in earth. Yeah. Okay. The Boneyard Alaska is the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Instagram page. If you go to the Boneyard Alaska, you'll
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: see what I'm talking about. It's fucking incredible. I mean,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: they keep pulling these They're using these hoses and cleaning
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: off this dirt, and they're pulling these intact tusks. That's insane.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: But there must have been so many of them that died.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: And they're preserved. I mean, whether it's mudslides or whatever,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: and they get preserved under these things.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: There's this one pocket where they're all concentrated.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently they find quite a bit of them. That's nuts. Yeah.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: You need one of those in the studio.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: A mammoth tusk? Yeah, man. Yeah, I guess, but it
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: seems like you shouldn't have it. Right. It's like one
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: of those things that seems like... It's like ivory. Yeah.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: You don't want it in some rich asshole's house. Totally.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: What is that? Skull? Skull. Oh, short-faced bear skull. Holy fuck, man.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: That's a cool animal. That's a cool animal. Yeah, we've
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: drooled over those fucking things many times on the podcast.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: See right there? You see those tusks? Oh, yeah. Bottom left. Yeah,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: bottom left right there. Those are some tusks that they
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: pulled out.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: That's nuts.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a ton of them, man. I mean,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: these guys... These guys are constantly doing this and pulling
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: these things out.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you, you're hiking through there, right?
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: You're on a hike or a hunt or whatever. You
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: stub your toe on one.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: What do you do?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: You dig it out and put it on your pack?
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: You leave it? Take a picture? What do you do?
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the rules are. Like if you're
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: in certain places and you find an arrowhead, you're supposed
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: to leave it.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: But rules aside, like ethically, what do you do?
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: Well, it depends on how far away you are, right? Sure.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: Because that's a lot of weight. That's fair.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: That's fair, yeah.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: I would say mark a pin on a GPS and
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: come back.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Because it's like it's something you want, right? As a
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: human being, it's a treasure. Like you found this incredible thing.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: But ethically, you probably shouldn't touch it.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: You know, what do you do? Well, these guys obviously
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: know what they're doing. Right. But for me, I would say,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at that one.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. It is huge. Did they wrap it up
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: with tape? Is that what they did there? It looks
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: like all.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: Those metal bands.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: To keep it from falling apart maybe as they pull
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: it out of the water or the dirt rather. If
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of my best me, the best me
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: would mark a pin and then alert some scientists and
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: tell them where it is and leave it the fuck alone.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: Don't be a greedy dick.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: My worst me.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: I dig that bitch out and put it on my
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: pack and not tell anybody and bring it back home.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: I just don't know what the law is. Sure. And
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: even beyond the law, like here's this gentleman right here
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: is pulling this out. Even if you don't know what
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: the law is, what's right?
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: That's the question, right?
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: What's right? What's the right thing to do? There might
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: not be a good law yet. Right. But there might be,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, there clearly is a finite number of these things.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Of course, there has to be. And they're prehistoric.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: Now, let me pose this to you. So, I know
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: a guy, he's a treasure hunter by trade. Very cool
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: old guy, Australian guy, lived in Perth.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: And.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: For years, he's like, I know where this certain Spanish
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: ship went down. Long story short, he finds it, right?
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: Digs up one single gold coin. He's like, it's here.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: I know it's here.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: He's a big spear fisherman, adventure guy. Goes, spends tens
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: He's not a rich man.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Spends tens of thousands of dollars, gets all this excavator equipment,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: goes to this very remote area of northwestern Australia, pulls
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: up something like $ 10 million worth of treasure, takes it home,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: legally declares it all, tells the government, gets all confiscated.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: They give him three or four pieces. You can see
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: his treasure in the museum in Perth. Here's this guy
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: who would have retired, been a wealthy man, you know,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: had his whole life taken care of because of this
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: thing he was obsessed with and then found, and then
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: got the tools on his own dime to go and
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: get it, declares it, and has it confiscated.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: Dude. Well, that's weird because you find stuff in the
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: ocean and they take it and people become billionaires, right?
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: They find Russian or Roman ships filled with gold coins and.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, this was considered historically valuable, so
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: it was taken for the museum, right?
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: And he got, yeah, a few coins and no money.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: I got to look up the guy's name. I know
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: a similar story. It's happened in America.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: The guy that went to hunt it got investors.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: And when he got the gold, he just kept it.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: When the investors asked for the money— He shorted him?
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: He said, I don't know what you're talking about. I
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 4: lost it. Or I don't know where I put it.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: Or I don't know where it is. So I think
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: he's currently in jail under contempt of court.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, jeez.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: Being asked, where is it? And he said, I don't know.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: He's taking lie detector tests. People think his kids have
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 4: it or something like that, but they.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: Have no idea where it is.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: It's a crazy story. Well, that's a weird one too,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: because like, what are you going to do with it? Right.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: Like if people are staring at you, they're like constantly look,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: where is it? Where is it? You're like, I don't
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: have it. They're going to keep looking. Like how much
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: is it worth? Millions.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 4: I think each coin might be worth a million. You
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 4: might have something like 20 to 30 of them. It's
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: like a lot of money.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: It's insane. Well, you got to bring it to someone
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: who's going to give you a piece. You know, you
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: got to bring it to someone, but then you're going
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: to get caught. Where'd you get the 5 million bucks?
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: Then what? Exactly. Oh, found it. Yeah. Yeah. What do
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: you do? Well, it's interesting when things are historical, right?
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: You don't know, like, does it belong to a museum?
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Does it belong to the person who finds it? Right. Like,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: what are the rules, and are we making these rules
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: up as we go along? Yeah.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 3: It's worth $ 20 million. I found a story. It's still
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: in jail right now.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Wow. Jailed treasure hunter ordered to pay nearly $ 20 million.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: Tommy Thompson.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Tommy Thompson's the kind of guy. Yeah. That sounds like
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy. Yeah. What is that island? There's
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: one island that has like this crazy hole in the
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: ground that was made by pirates, like Captain Cook or
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: someone like that. There's a television show about it. You
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? The Curse of Oak Island. Yes.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: That's the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: It's up in Canada, right? Oak Island's in Canada.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: And they have some crazy hole in the ground that
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how to get into, but
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: there's all these weird little traps. Yep, that's exactly right.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: What do they think's in there?
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: Some astronomically valuable treasure, right? And I believe the island's
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: changed hands like seven or eight times because people trying
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: to find it have gone broke, digging it up, excavating it,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: exploring it, and there's booby traps and all this crazy stuff.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some sort of a method that they've devised
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: where if you go deep enough, it just fills up
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: with water. So you can never get to the actual
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: treasure itself. Right. So the people who put the treasure
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: there might have fucked themselves. Totally. We're assuming they're so
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: smart that they buried the treasure in a way that
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: nobody could ever get it out. But they might have
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: just buried it in a way that they couldn't even
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: get it out.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: I think that's the case. I think it's one of
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: those like, oh, we're going to keep it here and
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: then they couldn't get it.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, who knows?
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, what a crazy story.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So do they know who did it? I'm not sure.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: See if you can find something on that. Oak Island.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: So that television show is, it's just like, they're just
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: like going, well, now what? Right?
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: I think they're just digging and trying.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: So you can't suck all the water out, right? Because
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: it's getting water from the ocean.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: Well, it's subsea level. So yeah, it just, you know.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Constantly filling up. Right. So unless you go down there
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: with a submarine.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: I think they put divers in it. They've had metal detectors.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: I don't really know. I'm not super familiar with the show.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: I just know someone that was there. And yeah, I
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: think it's this pretty serious ongoing thing.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: Buried treasure, right? Remember when you were a kid, there
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: was X marks the spot, the maps. The coolest. Yeah.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 3: The coolest.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 4: The so-called Knight's Templar Cross is one of the most
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 4: exciting treasures found there.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: Really? They found it? So-called.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: It says, upon first glance, it resembles a Knight's Templar Cross.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: Do they have a picture of this thing?
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 3: I think that's in the show right here. Hmm.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Hmm. So, yeah, when they find these, if they, in
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: the open ocean, when they find these things, it's whoever
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: finds it gets to keep it, right? I think so.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: If it's in international waters. I believe so. So, when
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: they have like these ancient Roman ships.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: But you still have to bring it back into port
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: and declare it.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: What makes it historically valuable? Like, I think there's, it's
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: I feel.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: like there's a lot of loopholes where you can get
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: screwed out of your find.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man. Yeah. That's a weird one.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Who owns that? Right. Who knows?
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just interesting to me that there
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: were so many ships that went down that you can
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: find these things in the ocean still. And they're filled
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: with gold, these Roman ships.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: And people retire off of it and, you know, spend
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: their whole career and lose every dime they have trying
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: to find one.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do they coordinate? Do they read, like,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: old logs or something like that and try to figure
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: out which way the people went? I have no idea.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: Man. So what other, like... crazy trips do you want
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: to do that you haven't done yet? Oh, there's a lot, man.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, the one that I've had on my bucket
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: list since I was a, so there's a couple, one
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: is there's one, really one place on earth left where
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: there's true cannibals and it's Papua New Guinea. And, um,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: unlike the missionary that went in, you know, with an agenda,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: I would just love to actually see these, these cannibalistic tribes.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to do that.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: Nobody has successfully, unless it's happened very recently, and I'm
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: aware of successfully done source to see of the Congo river.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: From guerrilla warfare, from crazy waterfalls, disease, that's an expedition
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: I'd like to try. And then when it comes to wildlife,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, the list is infinite. There's so many of
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: these animals that I'm desperate to try and find.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Those sound like very dangerous trips. Like visiting cannibals?
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know how to say
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: this without sounding arrogant, but that's what sounds exciting to me.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: You know, is giving that shot that other, taking that
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: shot that other people aren't taking.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: So have people visited these cannibals and come out of
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: there before? Yep.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: There was a Nat Geo photographer who got some incredible photos.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: They're called the Carraway tribe.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: And he went in there, took him a while for
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: them to kind of assimilate and get comfortable. And then
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: he got these photos that are just mind blowing.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Now, how often do they practice cannibalism? It is a,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: it's not a daily thing.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: It is a spiritual thing where they actually eat the,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: eat the other tribes food. deceased after a war or
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: an intertribal conflict as a way to like ward off
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: bad spirits so it's not like a daily thing it's
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: not like they're going out hunting each other it's more
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: like when these things occur they they have to eat
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: a certain killer a certain body to keep evil spirits
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: at bay.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: Do they get that version of mad cow's disease that
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: cannibals get was it jacob's kreutzfeld.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: I know what you're talking about i'm not sure i
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: think it's probably infrequent enough that they're not getting it
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: because like in the in the south pacific they got
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: that all the time but they were eating each other
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: like All the time.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you get it from nerves, right? And
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: nerve tissue or brains. Yeah. That's where they're getting it from.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: It's essentially mad cow disease. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Is this
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: guy hanging out with them there?
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: It starts off with sounding. He's eating something. I don't
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: think he's eating people with them.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: He's going to eat a fucking person.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: That's not a person.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: That's a pig or something. Yeah.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think they'd show that.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, look at the tribe. I mean, they just
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: look amazing.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just so incredible that there's still people
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: that live the way they lived many, many, many thousands
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: of years ago. And they essentially just get their resources
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: from the land, from the area they live. And they're
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: just rocking it old school.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: And then for me, like the cultural significance is huge,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: but what's the biological area like?
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: Nobody's going in there. How much biological study has been done?
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: The answer is none.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: And these people have large pop, like, look at that lady.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Isn't she amazing? Wow. Yeah. Um, have you, uh, read, um, Sapiens? Sapiens? No,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: Uh, evolutionary book about human history.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Noah Yuval Haradi. I think that's the name of his,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: he's amazing. Writing it down. Yeah. It's a, it's a
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: great book, but one of the things that they talk
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: about in the book was these nomadic tribes that would, yeah,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: that's it. Uh, Yuval Noah Haradi. I fucked up his name.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: They would talk about these nomadic tribes that would kill
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: the old ladies, like kill the people that were burdens
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: and like just shows like them. No, just kill them.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: Just talking about like when people became a problem, they
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: would just kill them. And this was normal, but they
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: got along together. Great. Everybody was like laughing and smiling.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: Everybody's really friendly. But as soon as someone seemed to
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: be a problem, they'd fucking club them from behind.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: And, It's like, this is going to sound just awful,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: but doesn't that make sense?
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: It kind of does. It sucks, but it kind of does. Right.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: Like you're a burden on the community or on the society.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: You know, there's no fucking old folks home out there.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: Like that's, it's crazy. Like to us in our culture,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: that's absurd. But as a culture removed from the rest
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: of the world, makes sense. Like you're a burden, you know,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: you've had a good life. It's time to move on.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: And they're nomadic. That's the other thing. It's like, they
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: have to keep moving. So if someone stops and like,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: there's one guy, he was sick. And so they left
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: him on a tree and he became covered with buzzard
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: shit because the vultures would just sit over him and
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: wait for him to die. but he eventually recovered and
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: he caught up with the rest of the tribe. And
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: for the rest of the, they called them something like
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: buzzard shit or something like that. That was their, their
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: nickname for him. Yeah.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: Imagine being that guy. Imagine sitting under a tree, looking
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: up at vultures, being like, it's moments till I die
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: and they're going to drop down and eat me.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: At least they're polite enough to wait for you to die.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: It's true. They don't just, the guy probably couldn't have
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: fought him off. That was a hyena.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. Hyenas. They're the trippiest of all the, the,
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: animals that the matriarchal society of them where the females
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: have the fake dicks. They're amazing. How bizarre. So weird.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Crazy faces, crazy biology and anatomy.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: You know, that fellow form that cat like, but doesn't
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: belong to any family.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: Like super weird. Love them. They have a giant fake dick.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: The females have a giant fake dick they give birth to.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: They do. Birth out of rather. Yep.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: They have unbelievable biting power too, right? Yep.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: The strongest mammalian jaw pressure on earth.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: What a weird looking animal too. Don't like, even the
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: way it walks.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Shouldered and you know, like totally looks like a villain.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like it's upper body is like higher than
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: its lower body. It's very strange. Very. What is it
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: like when you encounter those in the wild? Are they sketchy?
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: Very cowardly. Very wary at all times. Like I've encountered
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: them a lot. And as, as when you're in Africa,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: if they're taller, if you're taller than it, it generally
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: won't attack you. So people get like super scared of hyenas.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: When I was a little boy, I learned if you're
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: running in the bush and you see a hyena, stand
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: up and put your arms up like that.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: They say that about cats too, right? Like mountain lions.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: Look at that motherfucker.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 4: Jesus.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: Look at that thing, man.
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: So cool.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: You don't like him, huh?
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, I sure.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: It's very cool.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: It's not at my house.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: It's so creepy looking. Yeah. I love when they circle
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: lions too. When they get enough of them together and
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: they start circling and snapping at the lion's legs. Strength
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: in numbers. Yeah.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: There's a documentary on this one male lion who would
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: kill all these hyenas and he was like the enforcer
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: for the tribe. No way. You see how the hyenas
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: would come in and fuck with the female lions and
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: then this giant male would come out of nowhere and
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: there's video of it. video of him smashing these hyenas,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: just grabbing them with his giant head, shaking them, snapping
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: them and tossing them in the air and then chasing
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: after another one and killing them too.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: Unreal.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: No, I haven't seen that.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Relentless Enemies? You ever seen that documentary? Netflix? No, no, no.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: It might be on Netflix.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: Dude, I've got so much homework to do.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: Relentless Enemies is a documentary about a very rare pack
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: of lions that That branched, the river changed its course
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: and left them stranded on an island with water buffalo. Okay.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: So they developed like a much larger frame and they're
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: like far larger than regular lions. Like the female lions
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: in this pack are as big as male lions anywhere else.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: They're enormous. They don't even look real. Is this relentless? Yeah,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: it's from 2006. Oh, it's not very old. There's also
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: a book. Oh, okay. But what's really cool is that
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: they've evolved to take down these enormous buffalo. Sure. So
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: the cats, when you look at them, they look like
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: a lot. That looks normal there. But it's all relative, right?
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: That looks like a normal one. But some of them
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: look so muscular. Yeah. They almost look fake.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: Oof.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's getting his. Oh, wow. She's got the calf.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: She's getting the calf.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Cape buffalo are terrifying too.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: By the way. Fuck yeah.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: She's like, let that go. Fuck it. But there's, you know,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: very few things that they can eat on this one island.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: So they've developed this ability to just have larger frames
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: and they're much more muscular. And apparently there's, what's really
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: interesting is there's this pack that's really big, but then
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: there's another pack that lives on the island that's normal sized. Huh. Yeah.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: So they must be eating the smaller prey species.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: Don't know man i'm too stupid but it's the.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: Same thing so the size of that fucker look at
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: that look at the musculature in the hind quarters.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah i mean she's built like a male she's built
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: like a large male lion i mean that is on
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: steroids yeah that's a big female yeah.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: Amazing the same thing that happened in newfoundland canada with
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: the wolves you love wolves so there was this island
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: newfoundland and um there's wolves gray wolves were isolated there
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: for a long long time and they all they were
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: eating were moose and caribou. So they just got huge
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: and they were bright white because it was a snow
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: covered Island, like 80% of the year. And there were
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: just these massive white wolves, all jacked, all shredded, chasing
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: around moose and caribou.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: Wow. It's just the way nature allows animals to adapt
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: to their environment. is just unbelievably interesting.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: It's what I live for, honestly. It's so fascinating. The
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: ecological niches that each animal like fulfills and the roles
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: that they play within each other, it's all perfectly balanced.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: And to see it and understand it, like it's fantastic
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: to see the individual, but to understand the big picture
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: of the environment and the roles that are filled, as
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: you say, it's like It's mind-blowing.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a documentary on the Congo from the BBC from,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: I want to say, like the early 2000s, maybe even
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: late 90s. And it goes into that, into detail about
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: how all these animals have adapted. And like duikers, there's
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: duikers in the Congo that swim underwater for as much
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: as 100 yards. No way. And they eat fish. Some
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: of them eat fish.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: A fish-eating antelope that swims.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: A fish-eating antelope that swims. Nuts. Yeah. And then all
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: these animals that got trapped as this area, these grasslands,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: turned into rainforest. These animals that were essentially like grasslands animals,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: like antelopes and stuff, are stuck in the fucking jungle,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: the swampy jungle. And you see like these big packs
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: of like antelope running through this swampy jungle area where
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: they just don't look like they belong there. They look
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: like they belong in fields.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: And that's how speciation occurs, right? So that daika over
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: a millennia develops fangs to catch those fish and a
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: crocodile-like face and webbed hooves or, you know, I don't know.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: I'm making shit up. But the point is that's how
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: you get these crazy new species. And here in the
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: middle of Congo in this tiny little pocket is this
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: animal that nobody's ever seen before kind of thing. And that,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: like to me, that's what it's all about. Go to
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: the Congo. Find that thing.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: Is it there? What is it? That's why someone like
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: me is so incredibly thankful that there's someone like you
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: out there. Because I don't want to go there. I
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: don't want to go there, but I want to look
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: at your Instagram page. I guarantee you'd love it. I'm
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: sure I would love it. I'm 100% sure. I'm 100%
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: sure you're right. I'm also 100% sure I'm not going.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: But I'm happy that you go. Thank you. I'm so
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: fascinated by animals and just animal life and adaptation. I
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: think it's one of the more interesting things about this planet. Definitely.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: Is these weird organisms that are trying to figure out
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: their way to survival. And we're just one of them.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: And they're adapting and moving and changing. And we're always
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: finding new ones. I found a fucking snake. I posted
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: it up on Twitter like a week or so ago.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: A snake that has a tail that looks like a
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: fake spider. Have you seen that fucking thing?
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Do you know the species of it?
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: I know the species if you said the name.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's from Iran. And it's a rattlesnake. Scaled viper? Yeah.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: Scaled pit viper? Is that it? Yeah, it's a viper,
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: not a rattlesnake.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 3: Horned viper.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: Horned viper. Have you seen that thing? I know what
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: they are, yeah. Incredible. It looks like a spider. Right.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: And it tricks birds into coming down and trying to
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: snatch the spider. Here we go. The Iranian spider viper.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: Spider-tailed viper. Like, look at its tail. That is crazy.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking at that in a video, and
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: it looks like a bug. Right. And so this thing
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: moves its tail, and it perfectly blends into the rock
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: around it. Like, look at that. Unbelievable. I mean, that
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: amount of camouflage and adaptation. Like, how does that happen?
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. Like, look at this. It's boom. Oh, got you, bitch. Dunzo.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: And the bird's like, what was that that almost got me? Yeah,
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: it's insane. What an adaptation. I mean, like, you see
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: the anglerfish. That's a very bizarre adaptation as well.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: Same thing, just out of the head.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's unbelievable.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that creatures can create that without,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not like they're doing it knowingly.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Some handful of snakes at one time started waggling their
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: tail and realizing that birds came in. Yes. Right? And
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: then over generational time, this tail evolved little spikes and
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: little things, and all of a sudden you have this
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: whole population of animals that look like that.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: Like, that's insane. I mean, what is it? How the
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: fuck does that happen? I mean, how does something grow
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: something like that? A lure. Right. Grows a lure off
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: of its head. And it's like, hey, look, it's something
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: for you. You know you want to eat it. Look
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: at that one. Oh, my God. That's got a worm.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, that thing literally has like a fishing worm,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: like a bass worm. I mean, it's so amazing, all
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: of this adaptation and all of these. Look at that
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: fucking monster with a light growing. I mean, it's got
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: a flashlight on its head. Right. But it's just so
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: amazing how much adaptation there is and how all these
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: things sort of work together, right? Like there's the bacteria
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: and the fungi and the plant life and the animal
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: life and the predators and the prey. And it all
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: sort of works together. And when something doesn't work, it
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: just sort of drops off. And then the system sort
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: of resets itself in a new order.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, to me, there is no... You're saying it's
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: one of the most fascinating things. To me, there is
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: nothing more fascinating. Like, I'm, you know, I'm obsessed with it.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: I live for it because I find it so interesting.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Now, when you study these things, and do you ever
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: try to think, like, how the fuck that happened? Like,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: if you see that spider-tailed snake, is there anyone that has, like,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: an idea, like, that this was... you know, this was
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: just a lucky break that this one snake had a
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: freaky tail and then he got to fuck a lot.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: Because he ate a lot of birds. That's the idea, man.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: You just, I swear to God, you just summed it up.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: Like that is the idea. One or two or three
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: snakes kind of got this adaptation and, Just a random...
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Random genetic sequencing that led to maybe a white blotch
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: on the tail.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Something unique. Doesn't it not seem like that, though? It
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: seems like they fashioned it.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: But over time. They did, but over millennia, right? Over
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: the one... What happened was, say there's two snakes with
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: a white spot on their tail. Then they have a
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: baby and it has a little bit of deformation, right?
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: A little thing sticking out. Then that snake all of
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: a sudden catches more birds than the rest of the snakes.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: That snake now reproduces offspring and its offspring that has
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit bigger of a spike catches more birds.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: And so those become the prized animals to reproduce with,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: to continue the gene pool. And so that's what happens.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: It keeps evolving. It's like a peacock, right?
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: It's got this crazy big tail that it's attracting mates with.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: It's not useful to the bird. You know, that's entirely
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: made for showmanship, for peacocking, if you will.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: And over generational time, it gets bigger and crazier and
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: more elaborate and more colorful. And the females literally flock
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: to them. And that's the animal that continues on.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: I really wish there was a way, and maybe there
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: will be sometime in the future, where they're going to
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: be able to show you with some sort of supercomputer sequencing.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: Where they'll be able to look at the DNA of
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: this thing and say, oh, this is the exact progression. Right.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: This is what it started off with and this is
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: what it became.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: This is how some sketchy looking forest chicken became a peacock. Totally.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: You know, this is how some freaky snake became... perfectly
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: adapted to its environment i mean that thing looks exactly
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: like the rock that it sits on.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: It's perfect yeah since it is incredible like i would
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: i'm like you i'd love to know who patient zero
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: is you know who's the who's the first one.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah because stupid people like me look at that and
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: they go okay well that's got to be a plan
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: there's got to be something there's a higher power this
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: is something that like is looking after these things and
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: making them making them evolve this way right right it's
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: i mean it's it's super interesting what about uh like
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: cephalopods like octopus and cuttlefish and the way they adapt
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: to their environment that's even freakier right because they do
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: it instantaneously and have you ever heard the theory that
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: octopus are from out of space yeah we talked about
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: that with brian cox the other day.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah i'm not i'm not super well read on it
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: but like it looks like a damn alien.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was very incredulous. But, you know, he's obviously
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: smarter than both of us. Right.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: So he gets to be.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like me looking at that going, man, it
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Of course it doesn't make sense. I'm stupid. Right.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: But he's, you know, when we're looking at this, but
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: this is apparently like peer-reviewed published paper about the possibility
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: of octopus being reintroduced. And I think it has something
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: to do with the way RNA and DNA is on them, right?
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: I don't understand it well, but yes. It's like the
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: thought that the population came from out of space because
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: the DNA sequencing suggests something that makes it extraterrestrial adaptability.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was super skeptical because he was saying that
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: they're essentially so close to everything else here that it
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. But the other theory was it might
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: be just this is the path of life. Right. And
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: the reason why it's so close to us is that
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: this is the way all life, even if it's extraterrestrial,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: gets established.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: I don't believe octopus are from out of space, but
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: I love the theory. I love the idea of it.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: It looks like it's from out of space. You know,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: it's just wacky.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Well, it's such a cool thought. Yeah. You know, that
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: these things came from out of space. Well, that's also
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: a thought about psilocybin mushrooms from the weirder people that
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: they came on asteroids and their spores. I've heard that. Yeah.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: And they've, I don't know if you know this, but
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: they've proven that certain, I don't know about psilocybins, but
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: certain mushroom spores are impenetrable to the vacuum of space.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They can survive. Yeah. Yeah, that's bananas.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: I pick a lot of mushrooms, not psilocybin, but a
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: lot of porcini, a lot of chanterelles. I do a
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: lot of foraging. It's really fun.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: Are you aware of Paul Stamets? No, I don't know
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: that name. Oh, he's amazing, man. One of my favorite
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: podcasts ever. He's a mycologist and a fucking trip in
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: every sense of the word. A super genius mycologist who
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: has The craziest story about being in high school. And
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: what did he say? He took 20 grams of mushrooms
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: and climbed a tree during a lightning storm. Like something fucking,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: something where you hear him tell the story and your
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: hands start sweating. No way. 20 grams or 10 grams
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: or 20 grams, like something fucking bananas.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: Something that would kill a moose. Yeah.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it wouldn't kill it, but it would definitely make
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: it think it's not a moose anymore. Right. And it
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: essentially changed his life, stopped him from stuttering. He used
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: to stutter and he did this and he stopped stuttering.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: No way. Yeah.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: I've heard about guys that microdose with mushrooms, with psilocybin
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: and it it heightens their focus and cures their autism
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: and you know there's i'm not very well read on
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: that but there's a whole idea that microdosing with these
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: chemicals that are naturally produced can actually have very positive
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: effects yeah.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: There's quite a few people who do that it's really
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: common yeah yeah i've talked to a lot of people
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: that do that they microdose with that and they also
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: microdose with lsd There's a lot of that going on. Yeah,
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of Silicon Valley people are microdosing with LSD.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: It's funny because the one person that I know that's
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: done the microdosing with mushrooms from Silicon Valley.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people grind them up into pill form. And in fact,
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of fighters are doing that now. Really? It's
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: really strange. Yeah.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: So what would that... Why would that help you like
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: as a fighter? It's not a mental focus thing. It's
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: a physical thing at that point, right? Well, it gets
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: you into the flow state.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: Interesting. And so like with fighters, the real thing is...
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: it's not just your skill, but it's your ability to
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: execute that skill under pressure. So there's an overwhelming amount
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: of anxiety. There's extreme consequences to getting hit or going wrong,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: getting knocked out. The losing a fight is absolutely devastating.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: It's devastating emotionally. It's devastating physically. It's devastating psychologically. It
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: changes your perception of who you are and how you
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: fit into the world. And that sometimes, and I shouldn't
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: say sometimes, oftentimes impedes performance. Sure. Kind of come back
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: from it kind of thing. Well, it's not just that.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: The consequences of it possibly go wrong make you hesitate.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: And the stress of it all is very constricting. It's
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: very difficult to operate under that stress. Sure. The mushrooms,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: for some people, alleviate that stress and put you in
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: this elevated state where they say, and I've never fought
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: on mushrooms, but they say that when you're on mushrooms,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: you actually can see what a guy's going to do
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: before he does it. Interesting. Yeah, you have a sense
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: of what they're going to do that's a much more
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: heightened sense. than you would if you were just in
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: a normal sober state.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: So are you picking, do you think you're picking that
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: up through like biological cues? Like you could see the
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: muscles twitching in the arm before the punch comes or
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: like what, how do you think that?
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: It's a good question. I haven't done it. I don't know.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I've never sparred on mushrooms.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like a good idea.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: But it's really common. They say it is a good idea.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: The guys who do it love it. Yeah. Interesting. And
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: guys have like, you know, had some really extreme positive results. Huh. Yeah.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: That's fascinating. I never thought as an athletic performer that–
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: athletic enhancement, that would be a thing.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's not just the– I mean, I don't think
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: it makes you move faster or hit stronger or hit harder.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: But I think what it does is it puts you
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: in the zone. Interesting. Like, there's states that you get
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: into where you just– you can't do no wrong. And
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: they're usually very elusive. They come and they go. You know,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: you get them like– do you ever play pool? A
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: little bit. I mean– But you know how sometimes you
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: play pool for a few hours and then you just
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: feel like you can't miss. You just have this feeling
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: of where everything's going to go. Even if you're not
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: very good, sometimes those will come for like two, three
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: shots in the zone. And that elusive state of like,
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: and then sometimes you're like, wow, I can't believe I'm
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: in the zone. Then it goes away.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: Maintaining that flow state.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: But do you think it takes emotions out of it? Like,
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 2: is that why you're in that state? Like, if you're
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: not emotionally attached to that shot or that punch, maybe
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: you can execute it better.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: It's possible. I mean, there's a lot of speculation of
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: what's going on and what's causing this elevated state of consciousness.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just start microdosing on mushrooms and going out
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: to chase snakes around.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Maybe you would be like more in tune with
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: the environment. Or maybe I'd get bitten and die. That's
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: true too. Maybe like, hello, little snake. I'm your friend.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: He's like, fuck you, you are.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: So I'm not like a big drug guy by any means,
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: but I think you'll love this story. On this Amazon
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: trip I told you about, we land in this airstrip
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: in this plane. We meet, we get into this village
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, cool. Boats have made it here. It
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: took the boats five days. We're going to head up river, right?
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: And our like translators, like, you can't do that yet.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: Like, what do you mean?
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: Like, we've spent months planning this. He's like, you have
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: to have the shaman's blessing to go up river. And
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, what does that mean? He's like, come
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: to the Maloka, which is the like spiritual house. So,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: we go to the spiritual house, we sit around, we
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: talk and we talk and we talk. And it's like
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: hours of not like asking him to go, but just
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: like almost like idle conversation where he's almost like interviewing us. Like, well,
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? Where are you going? Where are
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: you from? And he doesn't really understand any of this, right?
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: He's like, he's living in this community. Long story short,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: he goes, okay, you can go, but you have to
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 2: take this blessing. And we're like, sure, whatever you need
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: for us to go. So, he pulls out the snail shell.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: I could show you a picture of it. It's a
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: snail shell with a monkey bone in the top and
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: a tube worm to close it. And in the snail
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: shell is this green powder. And he's like, this is
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: what you need for the blessing. So, he goes around
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: the circle and through a monkey bone pipe, he blows
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: this green stuff in your nose.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: Is that called a kuhe? Not by that.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: Word that we heard. I couldn't tell. The name of
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: the pipe?
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: No, no, the stuff they blow up your nose. Is
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: it DMT? It's coca leaf.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: Mixed with a bunch of a root and tobacco, I believe,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: like all together. And anyway, so he goes, there's five
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: of us in my crew. He goes around the circle
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: and he hits three guys and they all go, whoa,
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: my brain feels like I've got chlorine on the head,
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: He blows it into your nose. Yeah, so it gets
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: really close.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: He's got this long tubular monkey bone pipe and he goes,
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: and it just blows it up into your nose. And...
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: Hits three of my guys, and I'm watching a little
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: bit nervous because, like, I'm very, like, standoffish on drugs. Like,
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: I know things affect me very strangely. Anyway, hits three
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: of my guys. They go, woof, you know, eyes watering,
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: and they're like, wow, it's actually a great feeling. Gets
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: to my turn.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: In the nose.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I feel like I've got acid
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: on my brain, like chlorine in my head. I break
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: into this sweat. My eyes explode, and I'm like wobbling
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: like this. And 30 seconds later, I'm just curled over
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: in the fetal position, just projectile vomiting. Cannot hold it together.
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: And Lorenzo, the tribal shaman, goes, good.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: And we're like, why is this good? And he's like,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: he had a bad spirit in him. If he had
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: gone up the river, he would have been killed. He's
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: just got the bad spirit out. This is why I
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: had to bless you. Now you can go. And I
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: was the only one that had hit like that out
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: of our five-person crew. Everybody else was like, oh, my
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: brain's sore, whatever. I was literally fetal position, feverish, puking, crazy.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: And I've never done any drugs, like hard drugs. Like,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: it's just not my thing. And this thing just hit
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: me like a ton of bricks.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: After he said that, did you think... I mean, you're
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: a scientist. You're a very smart guy. But was there
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: a part of you that was like, man, is this
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: guy right? Yes.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: That's what's so crazy. Because I'm a fucking scientist. I
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: don't want to believe that. I don't want to believe
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: fucking jungle medicine made me not die. But this guy,
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: here I am. Nobody else fucking affected. I'm sitting in
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: the fetal position, puking my brains out, and the guy's going, good,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 2: now you'll be safe. And the whole fucking trip, I've
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: got that in the back of my mind going, maybe
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: the whole reason nothing's going wrong is because I just
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: had green.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Fucking powder blowed up my nose. Whoa. Yeah. Super weird.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: And nothing has ever affected me like that. I mean,
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: curled up, puking, shivering.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: Were you trying to make logical sense out of this?
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: Was there ever a thought where you're like, maybe in
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: this extreme environment that's so utterly different than any other
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: place in the world that these rules work? are different. Absolutely.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sitting there going, going into it.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like, cool.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do the stupid powder if it means I
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: can go on my expedition.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm not like embracing it. I'm just like going
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: through the motion to get my job done as a scientist.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: And then I had this experience and I'm not saying
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: I was enlightened or awoken or anything like that. But
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden I attributed my success and my
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: safety in small part to this Green fucking powder blown
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: up my nose by a shaman through a monkey bone.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, even if that's not true,
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: if you think it's true and then you wind up
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: being okay and you have confidence that you're going to
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: be okay, and maybe you have less anxiety and make
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: better critical decisions because you think that everything's going to
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: work out. Exactly. Exactly. Totally.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: Because I was super focused on my mission.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: We were very, very successful in what we set out
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 3: And I....
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like because I had that crazy experience and
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: here's this old little jungle Indian going, now you're, now
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: you're going to be okay. I didn't have any anxiety
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: going into the situation. And before that I had no
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: thought of it ever playing a part.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: Well, like the mind fuck of the placebo effect, right? Totally.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: We know that that's real. So there's a, some sort
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: of a physical effect by believing that something works. Right.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: But is there a physical, is there a change in
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: the way you interface with reality that If you believe
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: that you've experienced some sort of spiritual enrichening and that
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: some sort of a, some bad spirit has been released
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: from your body. Is that possible? I think so.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: I think it changes your own reality because of your
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: perception of the outside world.
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: That is a freaky thing for a scientist to say, right? Right.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: And this is like, I am a hardcore academic. I've
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: never considered spirituality, religion, anything. And I had this just
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: fucking 10 days ago, this crazy experience that has like
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: changed my mindset on crazy jungle medicine and drugs and
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: catching animals, everything because this one guy blew crap up
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: my nose and I puked everywhere.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: Wow. Now, has this made you want to experiment with
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: other plant medicines? No.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: The only reason I did that is because it was
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: a necessity to do what I was doing. It was
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: coming from an expert, if you will, but a person
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: who saw it as a necessity to do what I
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: was doing, and I was under his guidance. To go
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: out and, you know, pick a mushroom and try it
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: and have an experience is, I don't see the benefit
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: in that. But when someone who lives in that community
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: embraces that wild jungle, says, this is my home and
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 2: this is how you do it, I will absolutely do it.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: So, you do it like out of respect. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: What if they wanted you out of respect? There's a
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: bunch of those different snuffs that they pump up their nose.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: And one of them is, I think it's some form
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: of 5-methoxydimethyltryptamine, which is that stuff that comes off of toads. Oh, gotcha. Yeah.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: And it has a bunch of other stuff in it too.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: And they do the same thing. I think that one's
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: called a Kuhe. Okay. I've read it, so I don't
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: know if I'm saying that right. That must be a hallucinogenic, right?
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: They blow it up your nose and you see Jesus.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, if it was the same situation where
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: he's telling me you got to do this to go
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: to work, do your job, whatever.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I do it out of respect. Yeah. Wouldn't you? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: I think you kind of have to. Totally. You'd be
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: an asshole. I mean, I think, you know, when you're
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: in the world of these people and they've survived in
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: this world for eons and this is their environment and like,
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: you kind of, kind of have to let go and
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: give into this. Absolutely. Yeah. You have to embrace it. Man,
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: did you live a fucking cool life? It's weird. It's
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: really cool. Thanks. Really cool. Well, thank you for coming here, man,
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: and sharing this stuff with us. And thanks for doing
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: what you do. It's fucking awesome. I love it.
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: It's been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed it.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, too.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Joe.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: Got my hands sweaty thinking about all this shit. Tell
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: people how to get a hold of you on Instagram
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: and Twitter and all that jazz.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: Yep. My name, Forrest Galante, F-O-R-R-E-S-T, Galante. I'm on all
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: the social media platforms.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: Is it Forrest.Galante?
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: On Instagram, yes. On the others, there's no dot.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: Look me up.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: Love chatting to people. And thank you again.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, man. It was really fun. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Joe.