Latest / Project Horizons / Imagineering Interview: Jim Sarno | Epcot Stories
Transcript
- Mike: All right. So we're joined today by former Walt Disney Imagineer, and SMRT-1's best friend, Jim Sarno, to talk to us today on our first episode of the WDW Connection Show. ⁓ And Jim some wonderful connections to CommuniCore, The Land, Journey into Imagination, and many other great masterpieces working at Wed's Model Shop. And he's just all around nice guy. And so, Jim, we're thrilled to have you on our first show of the WDW Connection Show Jim: Thank you. Mike: And as we talked about before, it's an honor to have you speak with us today. Jim just telling us about your journey growing up in Southern California near Disneyland. That must have incredibly exciting, seeing that place and going to Disney as a kid and then your journey to ⁓ being an Imagineer. Jim: Well, first trip there I was five years old. like everybody you fall in love with when you get there. ⁓ I for me it was a little special because my ears now or my head's grown into my ears but when I was a kid I had ears that stuck out and of course my nickname was Dumbo. So for me to go to Disneyland was like, Dumbo will be there. ⁓ And when I got there, I realized they all had big ears and everybody loved them. So as we left with my balloon in hand, I said to my parents, I know this is what I want to do when I get older. So it was kind of a no brainer. I was teased at school, but at Disneyland, I fit right in. So I loved art and I was doing art all through my childhood and went to a local junior college. I was a psych major and an art major. I got my AA and I started to realize this was all in New York. What I wanted to do was toy design for kids. So the local state college, Cal State Northridge, allowed me to put my own curriculum together. And they said, it together and we'll see if we want to approve it. So they put me in the child development department under toy design. And so I got my four year degree. And then I said, well, it's still all in New York. ⁓ in California and I want to stay here. So I started thinking of studios ⁓ there was Sesame Street and Disney, of course. And said, OK, this is what I'm going to do. I'm gonna try and get into Disney. So you don't start out there, some people do, but for me it was a road through Sid and Marty Croft and it was in Burbank they were doing the Donnie Marie Osmond show, ⁓ &R Puffin stuff and all kinds of kids shows. So I worked there and my boss was Ken Forsey. he worked on Haunted and ⁓ Country Bear Jamboree. So ⁓ was the man who created Teddy Ruxman, who you can see me here And he was boss all people. ⁓ And of course, as we talked, he was working on Teddy Ruxman. And he said, Jim, if this thing ever happens, you're coming with me. Well, I thought, what an honor. Well, in the meantime, he had to lay me off he knew the people at Disney and he got me an interview over there. And was Bob Sewell. I was trying to think of his name earlier, but he was in charge of the model shop before Maggie Elliott was in charge. He interviewed me, wanted me to come on, but they were waiting for the contract to be signed with Tokyo Disney. I said, okay, well, I'm going to move to Hawaii. And in the meantime, here's my number. And if it happens, call me and I'll come right back. It didn't happen. ⁓ year later, I came back and I looking for a job and I ended up at Hanna Barbera. And there I was doing the costumes for all the characters to be in Marine land. We also did the Muppets for a Sesame Street Live. And one day in the local newspaper, they said hiring to make body parts Mapo. ⁓ know, it wasn't known, but I did have experience with Hanna-Barbera making body parts. So I went for the interview and got the job and it was in MAPO working in fiberglass if you've ever done that with surfboards or anything boats every little fibers your arm ⁓ full of it was horrible but ⁓ you it a job in disney ⁓ and my father had taught me, if you want to get in somewhere, if you have to sweep floors, do it. Well, to me, this was sweeping floors. Until one day I wandered over to the model shop during lunch and ⁓ I was like a kid going to There the model of Epcot and I was so excited and thought, boy, this is where I belong. And in my interview, Rick Golding who eventually got me over there he said, Jim don't you belong in the model shop? And I thought well I didn't see an ad for the model shop so I took this and I said every day he would ask me how are you doing? How are you doing? And I would say fine until this one day I said if he asked me today I'm gonna tell him the truth. So I said well Rick I love my job and I went over to the model shop. She wants to hire me. This was Maggie Elliott. But she said, I can't because you're in the union. He says, come to my office. We went upstairs. We talked about it. He called her. They talked. And he says, on Monday, you report to the model shop. And he says, but don't tell anybody. So I go down and while I was in maypo I fed like Fred Flintstone, know, it was clock in clock out it was very union I couldn't tell my buddies that I'd made that on Monday you're not gonna see me so Monday morning I to the model shop. it was exactly where I was supposed to be and the thing Maggie did was she set up an appointment with Rolly Crump and Walt Peregoy. So I said to her, why are you putting me in with these big shots? She says, well, you said you could do this, so I want to see how you do. I walk in, and of course, Rolly Crump, Walt Peregoy, the nicest guys ever. And they're talking to me about this fountain that Walt had designed. And they said, we want you to build the model of it, and then the full size. I thought, this is huge. And of course, I went to Maggie, I said, I can't believe what you've put me into. She says, let's see how you do. And that was it. I started carving the fountain. as I was doing it, I'm trying to think if I did it in the model or just the full size. I said, you know, they're never going to say that I sculpted this. So hid my name in six feet across, one of the panels, the last name, Sarno. ⁓ I went to the opening, I heard the guide person ⁓ to the new, the people that would be the tour guides, we know the artist's name is in here, but we don't know what it is. I thought I could run over and tell them. I said, no, I'm gonna keep it my secret. And so it stayed. Mike: Imagineers didn't necessarily get the credit that they deserved. Maggie Elliott said, you know, let's see what you can do. ⁓ And it looks like saw what you can do. and you were with the wigs we see you as a big wig as well. And so that's just an incredible story. at the time you didn't mention it to Walt Paragoy or Raleigh. ⁓ Jim: you I didn't tell him. know, Walt rightfully had quite an ego and he was a true artist a lot of people couldn't work with him, but he and I hit it off and we did really well. There was a story the day that John Hensch and Marty Scalar came to look at the model to approve it, to be built, to ship to Florida. And said, we would like all of it, but we don't like the top. And looked at me and they said, can you do something by tomorrow? And I thought, tomorrow? I took this horrible green foam back home and I got in the shower, pulled the curtain and started to carve the top. And the next day ⁓ I up with this top and they said, perfect, let's go with it. So things like that happened all the time. The imagination pavilion, ⁓ and ⁓ I those things where you go through a carousel ⁓ and then ⁓ there's arches butterflies ⁓ ⁓ plants and trees. Walt would give me an I would design it and then build it out of plexiglass, ⁓ not fiberglass, but plexiglass and white paper and then we color-lit it with colored gels. So it was all designed in white and then they lit it when it was full size. And ⁓ they had the fountain ready to go, we shipped it to Florida and Maggie said, well, Jim, the fountain is going ⁓ ⁓ you'll be giving instructions how to do it. I said, well, ⁓ should be going there. And she said, well, we can't do that. It's in a few days and we have no flights to get you there. I said, well, I've been on this from the beginning and I really think I should be there. So she said to me, tomorrow morning you report at Burbank airport to the mouse. didn't even know what that was. My sister dropped me off and we see the little private jet with Mickey Mouse on the tail. And when I got in there, it was like a living room, a little bit dated, but very comfortable. I remember bringing a cart of food around and then after we were done, they would have a Sunday cart. ⁓ Would you like a split hot fudge Sunday? I went for everything. I even sat at Walt's desk. and wrote postcards. You won't believe where I'm writing this from. So was like many of the fans, I was like a little kid in the candy store. I think there were 13 of us on the flight. So we landed the tarmac and they have 13 cars lined up. Sally, you're the red car, Jim, you're the blue car. And they gave you your keys, you got in and drove off of the airport. And then they put us up at Fort Wilderness. I guess everybody was at a different place. I was thrilled to be there because they had the canals that you could get in a canoe and ride to Epcot and go to your site. So I was thrilled. I'd put my hard hat on, my drawings, all the parts of the fountain were shipped there. And then it was my job to instruct how this was put together and how it would work. So of course, the fish panel that had Sarno I put right in front so that when you're on the top of the escalators, you look down right at it. Mike: That's great. project planning is so important in of this. And you were so proactive in making sure that was I wish it was still there. cause I would make a special trip there just to go the Sarno name engraved in that fountain. and this part of the ⁓ design. And it was an amazing structure. Jim: you Mike: And it's. Jim: I'll have to send you a close up of that picture because I definitely got that. Mike: Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Please. That would be great. No, thank you so much. Thank you. you know, I've talked to a lot of people about, some of these things that are in Disney world and parks and really Disney parks worldwide, something like a fountain, And it means so much to people that have been there that grew up with it and saw these. Jim: Yeah. Mike: structures for every year they went to match a product with a face ⁓ is wonderful. you know, mean, spoken with many these things mean much ⁓ to the Jim: since the success with Rolly Walt and I, the next thing they gave me was redesigned the Dumbo ride. Now, how ironic was with me having that Dumbo name, but all miniature. And then I went on from there to do the Tinkerbell toy shop. and just design how it looked inside. And then they said, need you to design the perch where Tinkerbell lands ⁓ the Matterhorn. Well, I said, OK. And they said, we want you to hide it in the Thunder Mountain area. So I pictured kind of a wood structure that would hold a water tank and just a place for her land. They gave me the whole script of what happened when Tinkerbell got up there. and what they told her to make a successful flight that the fans are out there screaming for you and then she would take off and land into a mattress on the stand that I created for her. It was pretty fun, but there was like a page script on what you talk to Tinkerbell about. So all these magic things that happened. I don't know they did the same at Disney World. ⁓ But we had what we called the Gold Coast at Wed. And that was the front of the studios ⁓ where all the shots were. All the big names, Marc Davis, ⁓ Ward Kimball, and of these guys came back to build Walt's last dream. So we were in the hallways with them, talking to them. And they all knew the model shop people because as they designed, they needed somebody to build their imagination. So this guy grabs me and he said, Jim, we need this robot really fast. And I said, OK. And on a napkin from the cafeteria, he sketched out SMRT-1 And it was just a simple felt pen on a napkin. And I know I have that napkin somewhere, but I haven't found it. and you see Smart One up here. At one of the retro WDW, who called Scuba Jim, ⁓ he had designed a of SMRT-1 and gave this to me. It's not the one I made, but it's one he made. And he actually made one that moved and talked. And I said, you don't have to do that. If you give me a model, I'd be thrilled. So this is the one he made for me. But ⁓ was kind of an overnight project. ⁓ I took the napkin. I went to the local hardware store. I bought knobs for a dresser and spheres made of plexiglass. And the next day I took it to the band saw, cut it all up, ⁓ stuck together. And they said, that's exactly what we wanted. Mike: amazing skills are showing. you're giving them what they want. who was the Imagineer who ⁓ wrote ⁓ on the napkin? Jim: You know, I thought for years it was Colin Campbell, and I heard later that it was not him, and I was looking up the name before and I could not find the name of the guy. Mike: Okay. smart one ⁓ an incredible achievement. to that in CommuniCorps, I mean, me as a kid on this, you know, telephone with a wire, you can talk to a computer what was showcased, know, called a showcase to the world, really. I mean, what was in CommuniCorps at that time. Jim: Yeah? Yeah, you could talk to a computer. Mike: was things you never saw before. Futurecom, the age of information, song about smart telephone. I this is early ⁓ 1980s. ⁓ yeah, and to have them, ⁓ everybody having one today Jim: I know none of us thought that was coming. Mike: and now it's like so commonplace. ⁓ I love that. That was great. ⁓ Jim: There was design your own roller coaster. That was fun. I mean, there were so many things that were innovative Mike: does the actual robot still exist somewhere? Is it in storage? Do you? That's Jim: It does exist. somebody bought it on eBay, I don't know who it was, but I found it was a computer company that wanted to buy him and they are in Florida contacted them. They were almost going to let me come to see him. And then something, it was very mysterious. I said I just want to see him and I never did. But I think he lives in Orlando. I'm thrilled that Jim made this for Mike: That's great. I see him lighting up back there too. That's incredible. so staying on Epcot, the fountain installation, flew out to Orlando ⁓ on the mouse, were based Fort Well, ⁓ there's the Bonnet Creek Waterway from Fort Jim: Yep. Yep. Mike: I was looking at a map and did you get there? ⁓ Jim: I think the waterway ⁓ ⁓ was able to canoe to Epcot and ⁓ don't know where I got off ⁓ walked to work and then canoe back. But we've looked it up ⁓ the guys from Retro tried to find it and they said, we found an old map and we see the waterway that you took to get there. So it existed, but then changed. then when I came back, I had been at the Tohunga building ⁓ sculpting this and then they brought me into the model shop where I had started. at wed and they put me right next to Harriet Burns. When she passed away, her daughter wrote a book and all of us wrote stories. I think I have right here. Stories ⁓ of ⁓ our time with in model shop. And she and I ⁓ just hit it off. We were good friends and she'd been in the model shop since the beginning. So she had about everyone and everything and she knew everybody. Mark Davis would come over to talk to her. Leota Tombs. know, She was her good friend. And Gibson, he was the sculptor everything. Harriet was married, Blaine was married, and they were just good friends. Well, later in life, Harriet's husband passed away, Blaine's wife passed away, and the two of them became a couple. these friendships ⁓ amazing. mean, ⁓ were the youngest people I ever met. They were twice my age and they were so much fun. Walt Disney himself loved her. whenever he would come in the shop, they would have a code. They'd say, yellow shoes is coming. Because I guess he wore some yellow shoes golf or something. ⁓ And the respect they all had for And had a bird ⁓ that Walt Disney had given her, a mina bird. ⁓ And he gave her the cage and wanted her to ⁓ see this bird to design the tiki So every time he came in, they were afraid because the mina bird was copying their jokes ⁓ and their humor, which was a little color. So ⁓ they were worried every time he came What is Joker going to say to Walt Disney? I guess they always slid by. But that cage was always on her desk and when Joker died, she took one of the Tiki birds, sprayed it black and stuffed it in the cage. So when I went to her home after she passed, in her studio was the cage and it just got me because that was always on her desk. So the family gave me the cage with the stuffed Minah bird in it. They said, Jim, we saw how you felt when you saw that. And ⁓ she make fun of me collecting all the things that they would give us. there were parts and pieces. And when people would go to and they would redo something or they had something from the model, like this little lantern. You see that? And she used to tell me stories that she was making stained glass for the boat crews for the little houses. And Walt Disney would come over and her show him how she was making these things. And she had these and she'd give them to me. She says, I don't want all this stuff, Jim. You take it. One time took the paddle wheels the There's three cottages. don't know if it's Wind in the Willows or some. some that Disney used. ⁓ they were redoing it all in fiberglass. ⁓ they brought the original pieces back to Harriet. And she was so polite and kind and she thanked them. And when they left, she goes, Jim, what do I want with this? I that's original Disneyland. That's very exciting. Nobody else has this. She goes, you take it home. I don't want it. ⁓ I went to her house ⁓ to take of things after she passed, she had so stuff and it was all collected and I laughed and thought, Harriet, you made fun of me, but you were collecting it all the time too. ⁓ Mike: Harriet was a collector as well. It's one of those things where you're in that Disney world, there's so much stuff it's just so nice to. Jim: so much stuff. Mike: those memories Jim: Walt Paragoy, who I don't know how many drawings he did in a day, but was prolific. And ⁓ he gave me ⁓ so many of his drawings, many of I too, because at end of his life, he living off of his own art. But some of it was Disney stuff. And then many pieces were his own art. And I just know as close as I was to him, I had to have a collection of his work. Mike: when I think of murals in Walt Paragoy, I think of Epcot Center. I feel like murals of anything are always engraved in our brain. And it's something that we remember. like that wavy design so unique to either imagination or the land Jim: Yeah. Walt Disney appreciated his style because he did the backgrounds for 101 Dalmatians. He worked Sleeping Beauty. He did so many things that were unique to him. And he was very frustrated because here he was a true artist working in a commercial capacity that was pretty frustrating for him. But till the day he passed away, he was always doing his own art. a story when Diane Disney opened the family museum up in San Francisco so Pam ⁓ Burns Claire who is Harriet's daughter Invited me the opening so I went there and sat right next to Diane Disney and We're watching the film and I can't believe this story And I had the book that she just wrote about her time with her dad. And she wrote to Jim, I envy you. Diane Disney. I said, Diane, why do you envy me? She goes, every time my dad brought me to the studio, I wanted to sit next to Harriet Burns and work on the models. And she said, and you got to do it, and I didn't. you were Walt daughter and you envy me. But what she was saying was I envied what you got to So she was, even though she was his daughter, he wasn't going to let her be there the shop, but he himself loved going and working with Harriet because she was so much fun. And she knew so much about how to build models. Mike: we can probably talk for hours and hours and hours about Harriet Burns, and maybe we'll have the chance to do that. favorite stories with Harriet Burns? Jim: there's so many favorites but my favorite was going to her house in Montecito She and bones her husband had just built a home. In fact, they had let me stay there before they even lived in it ⁓ And ⁓ that's kind she was but she invited me over she says Jim I got a new ⁓ Grand I want you to come over. I'm gonna play it for you So I'm sitting on the couch and my mother was a piano player. So I really enjoyed piano and Harriet sits down and she is just all over the keyboard and it is like Carnegie Hall. I mean, she could have been a professional piano player and she comes over while the music's going with a tray of appetizers. Jim, would you like anything? And the piano still playing. I said, Harriet, and she just cracked up. She bought a player piano and she wanted to play this trick on me where she was going to serve the appetizers while a piano still played. But that's she was, you know, so fun and did anything to make you laugh. So that was the time we both just rolled because it was pretty funny. Walt Paragoy my other good friend. And here these two people are, I think I was 27. They were in their fifties. we had the best time ever. ⁓ there was a story ⁓ of Fred Jerger the right hand man to Walt for building Disneyland, ⁓ and he was very private ⁓ and he had a home in which is probably five, 10 from the studios. And he invited Walt to come for lunch to see this room that he had built where Walt Paragoy's paintings were the wall. And he had them lit and he had his whole collection in there. He wanted to show Walt what he had done because they were very good friends. So Walt says, Jim, I want you to go with me. I said, but did you check with Fred? He goes, yeah, he said you can come. So I told my boss, Maggie Elliott, I've been invited to Fred Jerters for lunch. She goes, ever goes to Fred's house. ⁓ have to go and stay as long as you want. So I bought a couple bottles of champagne, met them there ⁓ about a memorable, like I just sat there like, why am I here? How did I end up here? And it must have gone on for two, three hours. We drank all the champagne. I came back and Maggie says, you have to come in and tell me ⁓ about your visit. So I did and that. ⁓ That's one of those times where like, how did this happen? Let alone Harriet Burns and the mouse and all that happened. was just incredible timing and doing my best. Mike: from the stories you're and your experience, you were so fortunate have all this work out getting in the model shop. It's a dream come true. going to Disneyland as a kid, and then eventually working at Disney in the mall shop where you wanted to be and meeting Harriet Burns, Gibson, ⁓ Raleigh amazing people that. were very close with Walt and I can see why you have so many amazing stories, Jim. ⁓ Jim: Well, I'll tell you, day at Walt's house, ⁓ see this book. Have you seen this, ⁓ People? So it's on his shelf ⁓ he's in it. And I said, Walt, do you know what that means to be in that encyclopedia of who's who at Disney? And he make much of it, but I was very impressed. And a little thought in the back of my head was, wow. to be in that book, that would be something else. And then a friend of mine, Julie Swenson, who's good friends with Didier Gez, who does these books, told him about these stories I have. he added me in this volume. And couldn't believe it. He gave me a whole chapter. ⁓ And at this. To see your name with your birth date and not your death date. Mike: Amazing. Amazing. Jim: being in the right place at right time or knowing the right people or whatever it is, ⁓ life just came together and gave me more things ⁓ that I was shocked. Like how this happen? Mike: been around Walt Paragoy a lot What was he like? I mean, when you hung out with him socially, Jim: Yeah. took his work very, very Now, he I had a lot of good laughs because we joke with each other, but he was a very ⁓ dedicated artist who took his work ⁓ so serious that he was easily if somebody didn't like something or they wanted something changed, he couldn't believe they would change. he was passionate about his work Mike: Walt, being that perfectionist and people who were around Walt Disney, what Paragoy probably had that same mindset of like, this is your work, stand by it. and you'll make it perfect. And he saw it as perfect and we've seen his work pretty darn perfect. Jim: Yes. amazing. and they are ⁓ extremely dedicated. their families suffer a bit because they're so engrossed their work that the family just has to find a way to be part of them. So, ⁓ you know, even I left the Teddy Ruxpin story, was because Ken called me and said, I hear you're not working there anymore, come and work with me. So I sculpted the characters and he wanted me to take over the model shop and it didn't work out. We had a few words. on, I saw him at a party and we talked it out. We forgave each other. All was good. and then now there's still reunions and parties and I'm still doing work. I've gotten glass. I know if you've heard of glass fusing, but it's pieces like this. ⁓ So I'm a good time. And then I lived up in Monterey for quite a while, but I've moved to Santa Barbara and ⁓ two my model shop friends, Alex Scribner and Rody, both live here. So we've gotten together a few times and I think, well, here we go again. We're back together after 40 years and Joe and I are becoming good friends and Alec and I always have been and it just keeps going on. on Pandora the flight of the dragons, ⁓ I told him, said, Joe, that one is a new experience where I've felt that kind of feeling ever. And came up with that. you know, a little kid who goes to Disneyland then dreams of what many, many people dream of doing. And then still now, years later, having these friends ⁓ that are so creative, I couldn't ask a better life. Mike: great experience and experiences in your life that you can talk and be part of that world. remarkable. Jim: there was story when I was given the fountain to Blaine a little upset and he was a very even keeled person. But came to Maggie and he said, why do you have a sculpture piece going on in the model shop with Jim? He says, that should be in my department. And I was terrified thinking, ⁓ my God, they want me to go to the sculpture. And he said, you know what, Jim, you can stay here in the model shop, but I would like to come and help you do this. he would stand there with me and show me how to sculpt the clay, loan tools. ⁓ He gave me a couple of his tools. And when I saw him years later, I had him sign them to me. I mean, ⁓ again, ⁓ a place to be. And while was there, I remember ⁓ if anybody asked me to do anything, ⁓ of course I can do that. then you just did it. Because you just don't say no. And that's ⁓ that's a ⁓ idea for living, you know, just always go for it. Mike: Absolutely, Yep. did you also know George McGinnis as well? Jim: McGuinness? Well, when asked me about the smart one? ⁓ Mike: because he was he involved with smart one as well because he did horizons space mountain he's one who wrote on the napkin smart one and said here do this, sculpt that. ⁓ Jim: Yeah. They didn't even have the name. He just had a ⁓ Sharpie and he did these ovals that's what got us started. ⁓ I him Robbie the Robot and they named him Smart One later. but you asking something about George McGinnis if I had any interaction with him, I guess. ⁓ Mike: Yeah, because he always comes to mind when I think of Horizons and Space Mountain and obviously Epcot Center. Jim: Thank you for bringing his name up. I think there were times when I was there that I said, boy, ⁓ how many wish they were in this position. ⁓ And I was so blessed and fortunate to be where I was. And it keeps going on. Mike: Did ever ⁓ have the ⁓ to meet Walt Disney and Roy Disney No. Jim: No, never do. I mean, you see pictures of him signing books and things, but my sister had found a tattered book in a thrift shop and it had Walt Disney's signature on it crayon. And I said, I said, Jane, you've got to sell me that book. You know, I worked there. She goes, no, no, no. I said, well, I challenge you. I'm going to find something. So I was living in Burbank. I went to this estate sale and it was Grace Harlow. And I saw these books and they said, I said, how much are these books? They said 25 cents. saw a little Jiminy Cricket on the back of the cover. I pulled it out, ⁓ it up. It was an envelope to Grace Harlow, Victory Air Power from World War II. was a Christmas card. And then I turned the page and there was Walt Disney's signature. And I took it to the studio and the guy at the time who was in the archives, Dave, I said, Dave, what do you think of this? He goes, that's the real thing. He said a lot of people signed his name, but you got Walt Disney's signature in there. 25 cents. But before I brought it to him and he actually typed up a letter and signed it for me to authenticize that it was Walt Disney's signature. ⁓ when I spoke at Harriet Burns' funeral, ⁓ Marty Scalar was speaking and he said to me, Jim, says, I like your voice. He said, you done any voiceover? I said, no. He says, I want you to contact this guy. I think we could use you as the voice in the park. went a few times, it never happened. But the guy said to me, says, hey, if Marty Scalar sent you, we need to hear you. And so I did a demo and all that, but it didn't happen. Mike: these stories are incredible. career is incredible. And I know only have ⁓ a few minutes left, ⁓ I ⁓ just ask you one more question, what your, and even past or what your all time favorite attraction? Jim: Well, there's, you know, the favorite as a child was Peter Pan. I love that. But I would have to say present day is Pandora. Because to an experience that your body has never felt before, that's pretty And my buddy designed the whole thing. So I would have to say that's it. And I've been to a few of the parks. and they're all magical. You go in there and if you can just suspend your imagination and let yourself be there, it's pretty incredible. I wish it wasn't as expensive as it is because it really, doesn't allow people to go like they used to go. Mike: it was an incredible time And I actually went to Disneyland, you're gonna be surprised to hear this, I first went last year to Disneyland my first there, I just walked down Street and I was just like, Walt walked street ⁓ and Sardo walked down this street. ⁓ And yeah, yeah. And so I ⁓ just started thinking about all the that... ⁓ Jim: I know. And Harriet has a window on that street. Mike: have walked down this street. it's like, it's a main street that has a lot of history. you was ⁓ amazing time and I cannot wait to get back. ⁓ Jim: Yeah, and been part of it. Well, when you do, let me know. I can drive out there. It's not that far. Mike: ⁓ absolutely, Jim, absolutely. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. ⁓ Jim: It's pretty wonderful and you know as grand as all the other parks are there's something about the original where Walt how it's all going to be. It's pretty wonderful. ⁓ Mike: Exactly. Exactly. Well, Jim, I don't want to take up any more of your time. absolutely incredible. And you always have a seat here at WDW Connection. And so you're always welcome back any time you want to have another discussion about more of your stories and experiences. So you let me know and we'll definitely be in touch. just thanks for sharing all of your amazing stories. Jim: Thank you. Great. Thank you. it. So we'll be in touch. ⁓ Mike: Absolutely, Jim. a magical day. There we go. All ⁓ Jim: I will. Thank you very much, Bye