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The Sean McDowell Show - Rob Liefeld Grilled by Students and Christian Apologists · KDAV Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What was the inspiration for creating the character Deadpool?
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: You know, the honest answer is paying the rent, but
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: you want a more creative answer.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Rob, how has Jesus changed everything about your life?
• 0:11
  Speaker 4: Well, so here's the deal. How does a Christian make
• 0:13
  Speaker 4: a character about Deadpool? I'm sure you get asked that.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What do you say?
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Well, so I'm going to go back to, have you
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: ever had a moment where you felt pressured to compromise
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: your decision?
• 0:21
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: He said to me, I'm a big editor here at Marvel,
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: and I just offered you a great gig. Who do
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: you think you are? And I said, I think I'm
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: the guy that's not going to join the show. In
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: two months, we have Avengers Doomsday.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I saw Ryan Reynolds walk by in that outfit.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: Is he in this new movie? Is it up in
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: two months?
• 0:43
  Speaker 6: Friends, I think they've closed the doors, so let me
• 0:45
  Speaker 6: go ahead and get started.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: If you don't know me, my name is Sean McDowell.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: I went here, I teach here full-time, but I also,
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: thank you very much, I also.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Collected comics in the 1980s and in the early 1990s.
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: And I had two favorite writers and two favorite artists.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: One by the name of Tom McFarlane created Venom, iconically
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: drew Spider-Man. Total outspoken atheist. Had a chance to interview him,
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: which was interesting. And Rob Liefeld, who's joining us this afternoon.
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: Three people clapped for me. They are here for you,
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: my man.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: Which is good.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Now, quick back story and we're going to bring him up.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Is I was at a church near here, I won't
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: mention it, and discovered a friend who's in a small
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: group goes, yeah.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I'm in a group with Rob Liefeld. I was like, wait,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: hang on.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: Like, the Rob Liefeld? I've got his comments going way back.
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: I'm like, he goes to church here.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: He's a Christian.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: It was like two years. I was sending you notes. Finally,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: your wife, Joy, came up to me. I probably was rude.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, Joy, I really want to interview your husband.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: What do I have to do?
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: I was probably a little over the top. When you
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: came over and we did that interview, that was one
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: of my all-time favorite interviews. My two boys came, got
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: a chance to meet you. We love you, and the
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: back of our mind has always been, like, I would
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: love to get Rob to Biola.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Now, in case you're just not familiar.
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: With exactly what he does, Scotty, tell them a little
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: bit more about his backdrop.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: What's up, guys? My name is Scotty McDowell. I am
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: a senior here at Biola.
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 2:24
  Speaker 7: So Rob Liefeld broke onto the comic book scene at
• 2:27
  Speaker 7: Marvel in the late 1980s, and by 1990, he was
• 2:31
  Speaker 7: drawing and writing The New Mutants and helping create one
• 2:34
  Speaker 7: of the most iconic characters in comic book history named Cable.
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: Then in 1991, everything exploded. In New Mutants number 98,
• 2:42
  Speaker 7: Rob introduced Deadpool. Just a few issues later, New Mutants
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: became X-Force, and in August of 1991, X-Force number one
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: hit stores and sold over 5 million copies. Then, in 1992,
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: he left Marvel alongside several other legendary creators and helped
• 3:00
  Speaker 7: launch Image Comics, a company built around giving creators something
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: they didn't have at Marvel.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Ownership of the characters they created.
• 3:07
  Speaker 7: In his first Image book, Youngblood became a massive success
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: and helped establish.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Image as a major force in the comic book industry.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: And look at the legacy that Image Comics has created.
• 3:17
  Speaker 7: Today, some of their titles include Spawn, The Walking Dead,
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: and everybody's favorite TV.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Show, Invincible.
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: And countless other iconic titles all came from the company
• 3:26
  Speaker 7: that Rob helped create.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: The characters Rob created, Deadpool, Cable and Domino.
• 3:30
  Speaker 7: Shatterstar, and X-Force, have gone beyond the comic book realm
• 3:34
  Speaker 7: to the pages to the big blockbuster movies such as
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: Deadpool 1, 2, and 3, and become known by millions
• 3:40
  Speaker 7: of people today.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: And now the most important.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Thing about Rob is that he is a follower of Christ.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: So, Brian, would you join me? Thank you.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Good to have you right in the middle. So we
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: have some questions for you.
• 4:01
  Speaker 8: Thanks, Robin.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: You guys, thanks for coming to this session. I really
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: appreciate it.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Great to see you. Now, we've got some questions for Rob.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: And then we're going to open it up for your
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: questions at the end. And I brought two comics that
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: my dad gave me in whatever, 1990, 91, whenever this
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: came out.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: I've kept them.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Rob signed them.
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: So we're going to give for the best question that
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: you ask at the end.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So, Rob, let me start with this question. We'll start
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: with the fun one. What was the inspiration for creating
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the character Deadpool?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: You know, the honest answer is paying the rent, but
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: you want a more creative answer. So the book that they,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I may all be non-conflict people, I'm going to bore
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: you for a minute, but the original X-Men, which they're now,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I guess, going to make a movie based on those characters.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: They were a failed title.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: That's not me spinning it. That's history that Stan Lee
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: would tell you. It was not selling.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: On par with Avengers or Fantastic Four or Spider-Man.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: And I can tell you as a kid, because I
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: started collecting comic books when I was seven years old.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: It was a rabid obsession with mine. They were at
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: 20 cents when I started.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: This is 1974.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, that sounds as old as it is.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: But I would ride my skateboard up to the 7-Eleven,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: the liquor store.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: I had this.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Mecca on this Four Corners just about three blocks from
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: my house.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: And I would pass it on the way home from
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: school and on the way to school.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: And there was a 7-Eleven, a liquor store, and a
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: grocery store named Stater Brothers that all had comic books. So, man,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I was like living the life. But I never bought
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the X-Men because they were super boring. And I'm going
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: to tell you why. I call them arm casters and
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: temple touchers.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: Professor Xavier, stop.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Stop.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: And then there's Cyclops. I'm going to touch my temple
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: and blast you. And then there's Jean Grey.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Stop. Stop.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Stop and then there's angel i'm gonna flap my wings
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that's all he does then there's beast who had big
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: feet and big hands so uh that's it and so
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: i'm like i'd rather have the avengers captain america has
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: a shield thor has a hammer iron man has a
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: you know killer suit of armor like everybody has weapons
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: hawkeye has bows and arrows that's the stuff that i
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: migrated towards They offered me the original X-Men. They were
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: in a book called X-Factor. It was selling very well.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I was wooed by, but Rob, you'll make so much
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: money in royalties. The royalties started kicking in in comic books.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: In the mid-80s. And a buddy that we all got
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: to know named.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Mark, he was drawing the major X-Men book, which had
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Wolverine and Nightcrawler and Colossus and all the cool characters
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: that you've seen brought to life on screen. And this
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: dude was living in a house in Malibu and driving Porsches.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: And Todd McFarlane, my buddy, would be like, Mark's.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: Killing it with the royalties.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And so it was like, everybody was talking, just like
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: in any business, what he's making, what he's making. And
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: when they said, Rob, we want you to do the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: new X-Men, the book that features the classic X-Men lineup.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: It's called X-Factor, and Rob, you'll make really good royalties. Well,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: so I'm 20 at that point. I've been doing comics
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: for two years. But I'm like, that's a stinker. I
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: will die on that book. I may make some money, but...
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: It's like you don't want to follow Magic Johnson as
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: point guard for the Lakers. You want to follow the
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: point guard that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Followed Magic Johnson. Because everyone is going to be like,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: he sucked. Oh, now we got somebody good. You don't
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: want to follow the superstars.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, the guy who had been doing
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: that book was really good. And I didn't think I
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: would be as good. And I didn't like the characters.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So here's the long-winded answer. So they said, but then
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: we have this book called New Mutants. And New Mutants
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: was so boring, so terrible, so out of touch, made
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: by old people.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: And I was a young person then. They were made
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: by me now. And so I said, I'll take that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: And they're like, well, Rob, we think we're going to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: cancel it. And I'm like, let me do whatever I
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: want with it. I will turn this into what it
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: needs to be.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: And they believed in me.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And I introduced this character, Cable. And suddenly, we're going
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: up 100,000 units. a month, which is unheard of, but
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I would, like, I'm working alone, isolated in my studio drawing,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: but I would do a signing once.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: A month at a comic store in Los Angeles or
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: Orange County.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And the lines were getting bigger, and all that meant
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: was that more people were getting excited about the book,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: and they were responding to the work that I was doing. So,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: after Cable's such a big deal, they finally let me
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: write the book as well as draw the book. They
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: had been letting me kind of really run over the writer,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: which was good, because it helped the book, But then
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: they finally removed the writer who was, I've got to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: censor myself, old. And so then, how do I follow
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: up Cable?
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: He's already taken over.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: They're making toys of Cable by this time. So people
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: always ask me, if you look at the cover that
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Deadpool is, can you guys hear me? The cover that
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Deadpool appears on, New Mutants 98, there's three characters. I'm
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: throwing it all against the wall. And two out of
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: three made that. Two of them went on to become
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: iconic characters, Deadpool and Domino. And then the other one, Gideon,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: biblical name, inspired because I was.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: A pastor's kid.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: I was grabbing all sorts of influence from Bible stuff.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: But I loved, as a kid, okay, I'm going to
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: take you a little.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Back and skip against an hour because you can see
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a long-winded dude.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: Scott is like, please shut up.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And so here's the deal. When I was the generation
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: that saw Star Wars for the first time, little nine-year-old
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Robbie Liefeld.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: Went to the movie theater and had never seen it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: This is how me and my friends watched Star Wars.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Oh my God! What is happening? Like, we couldn't believe it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Like, when that ship goes overhead and the special events,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: you could not believe that that movie was shot in 1976.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: It was released in 1977, but go to any movie
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: prior to that. George Lucas is a visionary. I met
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: him a couple weeks ago and I was garbling my words.
• 9:58
  Speaker 9: I mean, George is like, get this guy out of here.
• 10:02
  Speaker 9: I'm like, but you invited me. But the thing is,
• 10:07
  Speaker 9: in the sequel, they have Boba Fett. And they introduce
• 10:10
  Speaker 9: Boba Fett in a really super bad holiday special. But
• 10:13
  Speaker 9: the cartoon is rad.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: And Boba Fett is cool. And he's taking down everybody.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And it's the first time that little Robbie Liefeld had
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: heard of mercenaries, bounty hunters.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, that's cool. Well, this is my chance
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: to have a mercenary and.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: A bounty hunter.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: And if you look at New Mutants 98, Deadpool is
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: working for a guy who has given him a contract
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: to get Cable.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: And Deadpool is the bounty hunter.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: He's Boba Fett.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: The guy that hired him is named Tolliver. That's top
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: of the hut. And Cable is Han Solo. I'm totally
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: ripping off Star Wars.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: But Deadpool speaking of Todd McFarlane he was doing he
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: had the best selling Spider-Man book but what everyone in
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the industry was doing I was in.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: My car waiting to meet Scotty.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Today and I don't have any special status that I
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: put Ben Affleck on other than he's a really good
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: director as well as an actor and he's giving a
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: lot of promotional interviews for his new movie and he
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: was talking about his experience playing Batman and how he
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: felt like Zack Snyder's Vision was kind of compromised.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: By the studio that stepped in and meddled.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And then at the end of his statement, he goes,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but it really comes down to if we want to
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: honor Frank Miller.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, wait!
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: Frank Miller is.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: A comic book icon that inspired me and Todd in
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: every book.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: And so Frank had done this book called Dark.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Knight where he turned that into this super dark, crazy
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: tale in the future and it affected the industry.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Todd.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: wanted to.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Make Spider-Man dark, and he did.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: And he'd be like, I'm making, I mean, the first
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: issues of Todd's Spider-Man that he's writing, it's voodoo magic,
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: it's dark, he.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And Spider-Man's having marital problems with.
• 11:48
  Speaker 10: Mary Jane, she's going out clubbing at night, leaving Peter alone,
• 11:51
  Speaker 10: and you're like, when did Spider-Man not be funny anymore?
• 11:55
  Speaker 10: Spider-Man's not funny at all.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: He's like, crack a joke, because Todd's not funny, sorry, Todd.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, I can take the Spider-Man of
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: my youth that would punch people and make jokes, And
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I pinched him in the marble, I said, Deadpool is Spider-Man.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: With guns and swords.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And they're like, done!
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: You guys, it was last year for the first time
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I read the list.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Somebody said, Rob, in the letters page of your.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Last issue of New Mutants, before we transitioned it to exports,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: which sold five million.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Copies, because we were cooking. In that, in the letters column!
• 12:29
  Speaker 10: Because it's all about Deadpool. A guy goes, I love Deadpool.
• 12:32
  Speaker 10: He's Spider-Man with guns and swords. And I'm like, that's
• 12:35
  Speaker 10: what I pitched him as. So landed that plane, sold
• 12:38
  Speaker 10: some comics.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, the first answer
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: is the truth. Paid the rent.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I tried to keep selling well so Marvel would keep
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: giving me everything I wanted and keep me hired.
• 12:50
  Speaker 11: Because even now, I've got kids.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: They're in the workforce. All my kids are in their 20s.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: They're old. And they're like, Dad, I'm trying to get
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: a new job. I'm like, dear God, give him a
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: new job.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: My daughter, she's going to nursing school. Get her into
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that nursing program so she can get that job. And,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: you know, acting jobs. So, like, when you're 20s, you
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: just want to pay the bills. You just want to,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you know, make your way. And so that's my long-winded answer.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: Be careful with these questions. All right, Rob.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: That's weird, dude.
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: So, Rob, we're here at Torrey Conference, and the theme
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: of Torrey Conference is that the resurrection changes everything.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: That Jesus changes everything. Rob, how has Jesus changed everything
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: about your life?
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Well, so here's the deal.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I get up every morning, and as I walk down
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: my stairs, I look down at my beautiful green lawn,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and that's when you know you're old, because you're in
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: my interest.
• 13:48
  Speaker 12: And you're like.
• 13:49
  Speaker 10: Man, even in this heat, I've kept that lawn green!
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: And I say, God, thank you for this day. I
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: am a sinner saved only by your grace. I say
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: it every day. I say it often. My wife will
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: tell you. I say it all day because I'm deeply flawed.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: And as a kid, now, it doesn't matter if my
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: dad was a minister. I just got it. It clicked
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: with me.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Around the same time I'm getting into comic books, I
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: am really getting into the Bible.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: And you're like, what do you mean?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I wish I had the picture.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: I showed it. I spoke to like a business conference
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: like two weeks ago. I was so shocked.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I've never done this before, but I found
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: this one picture of me in the wedding for my uncle.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: And I am seven years old.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And what they gave me for being in that wedding
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: was this giant illustrated Bible. It was the size of,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I was going to say a phone book, but you
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: don't know what a phone book is. They used to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: deliver them.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: They're big, fat, and they had everyone's telephone numbers up.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: And a giant book. And I was like, wow. And
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: for whatever reason, I believe the Lord guided my hand.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I opened it. Double page spread.
• 14:51
  Speaker 10: Shirtless dude, ripped with the jawbone of an ass, and
• 14:56
  Speaker 10: he's kind of going like this.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah!
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And he's smashed, blood's coming out of these soldiers' mouth,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: and it's Samson.
• 15:03
  Speaker 10: Killing 5,000 Philistines. And the bloodlust in little Robbie Liefeld
• 15:08
  Speaker 10: was like, no.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, I can get into this. Like,
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: Samson's whooping some butt here. I'd say another word, but
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: I'm a biologist. And so I'm like, Samson is crushing.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: And then he's wrestling a lion. And oh, crap. Wait,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: what do you mean he's blind? and he's going to
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: kill everybody, and he dies? Oh, that sucks. Saturday morning cartoons,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: they always live. The super friends never die, okay?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So then I go to Joshua and Gideon, and I'm
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: an Old Testament guy. I'm an Old Testament seven-year-old. I'm
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: obsessed with all these Old Testament heroes. And I'm like, wait,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: so David didn't just kill Goliath? He cut off his
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: head and go to the Scriptures. He walked around with
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: that head.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Imagine, hey everybody, I got a head here. I took
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: it off the giant. What's up? So I was totally
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: engaged in the Bible. Not really a New Testament guy.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Other than Christ and the resurrection. But I was so
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: into the Old Testament. But with all the supernatural, the superpowers.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, God came upon David. He came upon Samson.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: that that word came upon is very specific. It's when
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: God creates a supernatural awakening or an action in you.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: And it's used in the Old Testament. And there's a
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: prophet I talk about, or a judge, in the book
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: of Judges, his name's Jephthah.
• 16:25
  Speaker 11: And he's a judge no one's heard of, but he's
• 16:28
  Speaker 11: another one of those guys that took on the Ammonites,
• 16:31
  Speaker 11: and it says, before he writes in the Bible, in
• 16:33
  Speaker 11: my Bible, in Judges, and the Spirit of the Lord
• 16:36
  Speaker 11: came upon Jephthah and delivered.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Him this victory.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: He couldn't do it by himself. So I've always been
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: attuned to this. So when I was in seventh grade,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: they were preaching the word. And in Sunday school, a
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: man named Jim.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: Arks, who is long gone, passed. God bless him.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: He worked at our church. I went into a corridor
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: like this out here. I got on my knees. I
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: accepted the Lord in my heart. And I've never, ever,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: ever let that faith go. And I'm going to tell you,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: in the early 2000s, I went to Borders. There was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: a bookstore that used to be around Borders, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: books and whatever music.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm going to try and see
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: if I can be an atheist. And I tried for
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: three weeks. I read every atheist book.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Some I bought, some I read there because they had
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: a dumb policy that you could read the books at
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the library.
• 17:23
  Speaker 10: And I just couldn't do it. I'm like, I can't
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: go there. All of these arguments for atheism, I just can't.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: It's in me. I believe.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And I think when you believe and you have that
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: faith on your side, You know, it's with you all
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the time. So, Scotty, being a believer and being of
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: faith in the work that the Lord has done in
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: my life, I am nothing without all of the things
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: that God has blessed me with, whether it's my talent,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: my drive, the beautiful wife that he introduced me to,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: and the beautiful children that we have had.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: And I mean beautiful on the inside. And they're just wonderful.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Also on the outside. The thing is, God is with
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: me every day. My faith is everything. People in my
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: industry know it. I believe it's part of why I
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: have been targeted my whole career. When I came forth
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: really boldly, I could tell. It was like, now we're
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: going to just shoot you all the time.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: But I'm good.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Like, that doesn't, like, if you've read that I'm the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: worst artist on planet Earth, I'm cool.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: That's cool.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm also the most hireable artist on planet Earth,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: so I kind of reconcile both things. I'm like, I suck,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: but I'm never without work.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: I suck.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: And again, that's because God's taken care of me and
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: he's watched over me, and I'm not sure I answered
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: your question.
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: We talked about this a little bit last time, is
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: that there's always questions that Christians wrestle with in terms
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: of what films, movies, what kind of media do we engage?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: How do we do it wisely and biblically?
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: What's your approach to approaching and creating media as a Christian?
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: What does that look like? How do you navigate those waters? Well,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that's a really interesting question.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: So I grew up in a really, I've got to
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: go all the way here. I grew up in a
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: very judgy, super Baptist, oppressive, Not my dad. My grandfather
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: was the head pastor. My dad was the associate, you know, pastor.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: My dad was never, my dad was all just a
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: kindness man. And everyone like, he just left such an
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: imprint on everyone with his kindness.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Other people at the church were super duper judgy.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: But we'd sell weird things like tracks, Christian tracks that
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: had people burning in the.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Lake of fire going, why did you abandon me, God?
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: And I'm like a seven-year-old. I'm like, why am I
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: reading this? This is like fear-mongering.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to the arts, I, whether it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: a play, you know, do I, like Shakespeare, or whether
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: it's great directors, I'm a matured adult, and I would
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: not let my children, okay, case in point, you know, little,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: a lady came to me with.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: Her son 10 years ago at a signing in Las Vegas.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: And he's dressed up like that. Cute outfit, cute kid.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: But the mom starts accosting me. Why does that movie
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: have to be R-rated? I'm like, lady, your son is
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: dressed up like an assassin who kills people for money.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: That's what little Billy's dressed up like right now. Well,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I never. I thought my mom was standing in front
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: of me. Well, I never was a very 1970s person.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: And she stomped off.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, lady, get a grip. The movie wasn't
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: made for this game. I didn't make the movie. I
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: got paid for the movie. I enjoyed the movie because
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I'm a man. I'm an adult person, okay?
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: I'm not a child. I wouldn't show Deadpool to children.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: But I have had people who are like, hey, Rob,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: I showed.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Deadpool to my five-year-old six times, and I'm like, there's
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: something wrong with you.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not a child.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Okay? I'm going to go to the Old Testament.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: There is stuff in there that I've told you I
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: think is distinctly R-rated that when I discovered it, I was.
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: Like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Because that wasn't just
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: the paintings. I'm like, there's sex in the Old Testament! Wubba, wubba! Okay?
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: There is an underground cartoonist There was an underground cartoonist.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you don't know. Underground comics.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: So my sister is seven years older than me. So
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: she's way older. And she was doing a tour paper
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: on underground comics. And I was probably eight years old.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: So that would put her at 16. Or older.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I think it was her senior year.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: And she had this coffee table book. And I looked
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: at it. And I'm like, underground comics? What is this?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm in there like.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Marvel and DC Comics, well, underground comics were made by
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: these avant-garde, the hippie, the hipsters, like my buddy who looks.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Like he's from the 1970s right here.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: I love him. No, I told him earlier, he's rad.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm back in 1977 if I just
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: look at you. I'm reading through my youth, and I
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: think fashion and all this stuff is cool. I'm super
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: boring and super old, and I just draw all day.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, underground comics were very much about
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: drugs and sex, and this guy, R. Crumb, Robert Crumb,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Google him, he was the king of underground comics. Now,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you something. He hit the culture
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: hard in, I think, 2006. He's been kind of out
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: of it. He's a super talented artist. He had a
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: very distinct style.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Really talented.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: He announced to everyone that he's putting out a hardcover
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: book that he drew the entire book of Genesis. Whether
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it was the New York Times, CBS News, LA Times,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I watched everything because I was obsessed with it. R. Crumb,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the king of underground, druggy, sex comics, decided to draw
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the Bible. And he said, I am not of the faith,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: and this did not change me, but I wanted to
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: draw word for word, line for line, everything.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: That is depicted. This book, as you imagine, has got
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: some raw images in it. Because like I said, there's
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: some stuff in the Bible that's R, maybe X, right? Okay,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: hand it to the kids. And so reconcile that first,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: and then get back to me. But here's the deal.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Because you're going to be like, but Rob, that's ordained. Yeah,
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: but there's certain maturity is, I think, what I would
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: get to.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And I don't believe God judges me when I go
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: see Terminator 2 or Predator or Basic Instinct. I don't
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: think he's like, oh, Robbie Liefeld, I'm going to shove.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: A lightning bolt up his... No.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Because I walk out and I'm inspired as an artist.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And I just believe when we get to the arts,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: we're in a different place. So I have a son
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: who was on a show and he was a werewolf.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Do I believe in werewolves? I do not believe in werewolves.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: And I think maybe they're slightly on the other side
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: of things.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: But it's a part, it's a role. He was given it.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: He's read for serial killers. Okay?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: It's called, like, at some point we can stop, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, what I do, I'm
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: doing to glorify God. But I may tell a story
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: that's uncomfortable, but it's what I want to tell with
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: my artistic talents.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, am I.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: There's a guy that we know, and I told you,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I felt like your light bulb went on in your head.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: I love you, man.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: But I was like, this guy does a comic book
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: about the devil. And it almost seeks to glorify the devil.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And I will call that man my friend until the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: day I die. But we have different end games with
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: what we're trying to do.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: I will give the Lord all the glory for what
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: I do and be.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Excited about that I was able to tell those stories,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: but there's, you know, I gotta be honest, I don't
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: sit there and go, oh man, I've really gone over
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the line with something, because then I look and I go,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I let everybody know who gave me the
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: talent to do it, and some of you have athletic talent, some.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Of you have talent in terms.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Of writing, some of you have like super scientific brain talent, again,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I got given an artistic talent, I understood that it
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: was God given, and I The way I came about
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: it was me and my friends all went back from
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Star Wars, and we wanted to draw the characters. There
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: is no internet. There is no way to access those images.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: We had to do it from memory. Maybe a magazine
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: had a couple, but we all drew Chewbacca. But mine
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: was the only one that looked like Chewbacca. I'm like,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: is that a mop? What is that?
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: What is that? Oh, and they're like, wow, you draw.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, maybe I have a gift.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Maybe I can draw.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: But the arts is a weird thing, and I don't
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: think there's any one thing I think, what is your
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: heart going.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Into that art, and what is your heart going out
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: of it?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Because like I said, I could take on, you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: let's say a member of my family, my wife was
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: an actress too, and there was only one role, she said,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't really want to play this, and so she
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and her sisters decided not to read for it, because
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: they were triplets, they were kind of a gimmick for
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: their time, and then one of them went on to
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: be on Saved by the Bell, and the other one
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: went on to be on a whole bunch of other
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: guest stars, but my wife was like, I'm kind of
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: done with this, the acting thing is kind of weird.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And I don't love it.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: But, uh, I think, like I said, there's no hard
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and fast rule.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: See, if I was a Baptist that I grew up with,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: you'd just be condemned, condemned, condemned. But I don't believe
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: that's the answer. So why don't you give me the answer?
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: I've watched you two. Have you watched their videos?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: They school everybody.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: And now they're teaming up all the time. I feel
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: terrible for the people you guys cornered. Because it's like, here,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: I'll slap them. Okay, you slap them.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Here, here, here.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, the McDowells are like, they're wrestlers. Like, here,
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: I'll drop the chair.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: So, you know it's true. I watch it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: All right, Rob.
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: You have been in the comic book and film industry
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: for 40 plus years now?
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. 40 plus years.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Have you ever had a moment where you felt pressured
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to compromise yourself? Yes.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: So, well, so, during that time in Marvel Comics, again, guys, I'm...
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: I get into the comms industry at 18 years old.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you what I was doing before I
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: was 18 years old. You understand, at eight years old,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: my dad goes in for a brain surgery. He gets
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: a blood clot the next day. He is in a
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: coma for six months. They tell my mom every day
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: he is going to die. I drive with Patty Liefeld,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: God bless her. She is crying on the way to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the hospital and on the way back. My sister, I
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: don't know where she But I did not see her
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I think she was out. She dealt with it in
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: her own way. She could drive. She could leave.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: But I would drive with my mom. And I would
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: hear the doctors tell my mom that they don't say
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: this anymore. This is the verbiage of the 70s.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Paul is a vegetable and likely never to wake up.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And we can't recommend not pulling the plug on him.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, don't pull the plug on dad. Let's
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: give him some work tonight. Then one day, God woke
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: him up.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Boom.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: Out of a coma. But then he had two months
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: of rehab. His whole body had been dead.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And this is 1970s science. And I mean, I'm like,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: did they work on him with rusty tools? I mean,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: because in 1985 it came back. And it was, I'm
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: about to graduate. My parents are living in Illinois now
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: because my dad has taken a job there as a
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: superintendent of a school. And they didn't tell me, they
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: didn't want to upset me because that time for our
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: family was very traumatic. I mean, I did not, I remember,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: they didn't even tell me the day they were bringing
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: my dad home. I think they just didn't want me
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: to get too anxious. But I saw all these cars.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: My sister took me to the drugstore to get comics.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And as we drive back, now I'm nine years old,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I see all these family cars. And my sister's like,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Dad's home.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what?
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: I ran in. I cried. I hugged him.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: He was also missing a giant part of his head
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: because he had to go back in there and put
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: plastic there because they had taken so much bone. I mean,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: this is archaic science of 1978.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: Now, he had another surgery in.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: 1985 because my parents met me at my graduation. They
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: flew in and they're like, Robbie, we need you to
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: come back with us to be with your dad all summer.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: He's going to have brain surgery. The tumors are back.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And I was a dutiful son. I'm like, let's do it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I had a girlfriend. I had a life here. I
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: thought I'm going to have this great, you know, post-senior
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: high school summer. I graduated the next day. I'm on
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: a plane to Chicago. I sat next to my dad,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: helped him out. This one went so smooth. We had
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: this great French doctor, Dr.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: Rimbaldi.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: He was so ace. And my dad was in and
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: out of the surgery. No coma, no complications. I said,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go home now.
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: And they lived in Illinois. I flew home.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: A buddy of mine, his family rented me a room.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: And I immediately became a busboy. pizza delivery guy, and
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I work construction five days a week with my buddy.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: So we're up at 4.30 in the morning getting our
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: construction boots on. We work construction.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: We work until 4 o'clock every day.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: I get home and between four or five nights a week,
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: I'm delivering pizzas or.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: I'm bussing tables because I'm just trying to make Because
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: at this point, things look bleak. My parents' financial picture
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: is bleak. So drawing comics is like my goal.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: And one year later, because I graduated when I was
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: 17 years old. I didn't turn 18 until October of 1985.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: So I graduated in June of 85. One year later,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: I'm hiring comics. And that is a blessing. That is,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: the good Lord blessed me ridiculously.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And so getting in comics and paying the rent is,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: is like all, now I can draw, do what I love,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: and make some money, and get paid.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: $ 200 a page. And if I can do 25 pages
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: a month, then I'm good.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So, I'm now getting some attention with my art, and
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I'm answering your question directly after that kind of buildup.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: I just want to give context. An editor at Marvel
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: calls me up and says, Rob, we want you to
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: do the new Doctor Strange book. Well, I had already
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: heard what they were going to do with Doctor Strange.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Doctor Strange, when I was a kid, by Stan Lee
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: and a gentleman named Steve Ditko, was cool, fun, magic,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: other dimensions, specific, like, magic creatures.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Again, now, I have friends who are like, magic is
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: of the devil, and I just shut the door. Magic
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: can be fun.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Stop.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, magic, if I have a pentagram, and I'm calling
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: up the devil, and I'm trying to burn, yeah, okay. So,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: let's comment on, we have friends who banned Harry Potter
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: books in 2001.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Like, you can't read Harry Potter, it's up to the devil.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you need help. Not me, just for the record. No, no,
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: you're my stand-in friend.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: It's like my dad, when he took me to see
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Star Wars, and he drove home and he said, Robbie,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: if I ever see you praying to the force, I'm like, Dad!
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: Because Obi-Wan kind of looks like Elijah, kind of looks
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: like Moses.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: If you look at, again, it's like, there's some Old
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Testament stuff going on on Tatooine.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I mean, if Obi-Wan opened his closet and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: there was the Ten Commandments, he'd be like, I knew
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: it was Moses!
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: But the thing is, George Lucas was pulling for everything.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So this guy says we're going in a very occult
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: direction of Doctor Strange. He's going to be battling like
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Satanists and more occult and supernatural.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: And there's going to be spells.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, that just didn't sound
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: cool to me. Like I don't want to, like the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: devil sitting on my shoulder while I'm drawing. I really
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: was 20 years old and.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Not having it. And I said, hey, you know what?
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you offering me this new direction for Dr.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Strange.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But if you want to go to the old, the
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Stan Lee Dr. Strange, I'm all for it. But this
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: new one where he wears a coat and he investigates the.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: Occult, I'm not for that. And he said to me,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: who do you think you are? And I mean, you
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: feel that on the phone.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: They're in New York. I'm in Los Angeles. I'm in
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Orange County. And he goes, who do you think you
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: are that you can turn down to work? I'm a
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: big editor here at Marvel, and I just offered.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: You a great gig. Who do you think you are?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And I said, I think I'm the guy that's not
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: gonna draw Doctor Strange. I was very nervous that I
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: was now going, because this guy was a very influential editor,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: but there was a brand new young editor who had
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: just taken over the X-Men, and I do believe it
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: was a direct correlation three days later Rob you want
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to do the original lifespan no that's too scary for
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: me I don't think I'm good enough the characters were
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: like temple touchers and stuff but like I said the
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: guy who was drawing it was really good and I
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: didn't want to follow him if I didn't make that
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: clear and then he's like well we have this other
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: thing and you guys my path on that so Scotty
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I would not give in to the pressure and I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: mean in that moment there was a hanging moment that
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: felt like a thousand years of you know when the
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: editor says who do you think you are you're like
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: oh boy I'm in trouble And I'm a guy who
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: needs Marvel to give me work. So that is the
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: one time, and I definitely believe that that was like
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: a crossroads. That was like a bit of a kind
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: of like a journey for me, a test. And I'm glad.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: That I, at 20 years old, stood up and said, no,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to compromise.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I've got a question for you.
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: I think Scott has one more, and then we'll open
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: it up. Sometimes people ask me, what are your favorite interviews?
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: And just so you know, my all-time favorite interview always
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: has been and always will be with my dad, just
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: for the record.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And then I'm like, after that.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: He's a goat.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: He is the goat.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: After that, I'm like, you are one of the first
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: that come up. And I've been thinking about it because
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: I asked you this question. The moment I tell people,
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: I interviewed Rob Liefeld, created a character. He created Cable,
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: created Deadpool.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: He's a Christian. Half the time, I'll get a look like, huh.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Like, how does that work?
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: And I've thought about, like, there seems to be two
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: ways to look at Deadpool. Tell me if I'm completely
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: off on this. One is irreverent, crass, certain humor. Maybe
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: it makes us laugh at things maybe we shouldn't laugh at.
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: The other's like, he's actually a tragic character. And he's
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: acting out certain hurt and pain and experiments that have
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: been done on him. When I started to look at
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: it through that lens, I started viewing the character differently.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: How do you view him as a character? And to
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: answer the question people ask me, like, wait a minute,
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: how does a Christian make a character about Deadpool? I'm
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: sure you get asked that.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: What do you say?
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Well, so I'm going to go back to what I
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: told that lady in Little Billy. He's an assassin who
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: kills people for money.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Is that a great job that God would want you
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: to do?
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: No, he's an anti-hero, like Boba Fett.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, they eventually turned Boba Fett into, like, look,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I know the Mandalorian movie failed, but it was based
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: on Boba Fett. And that show was blowing up for
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: a while because he's an anti-hero.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: We like compromised people. So, look, here's the deal.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, I've drawn thousands of comic book pages.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I was drawing one before I came here today. I
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: hope to draw until I drop dead on my drawing board.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: I hope I die on my drawing board.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: I told my wife. I'm not sure if she's entertained
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: by that.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: But there was a guy who was drawing a story
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: for us, and the family called and said, he died
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: drawing your story.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: And I kind of thought, that was badass.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: So the thing is, the thing is, look, In those
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: thousands of people, in those thousands of pages, I've murdered
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: people brutally, bullets through heads, swords impaling people. It's just
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: the function of, like, do I go to John Wick
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: and go, oh man, John Wick is sinning so bad, killing.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: These 60 people. No, I'm like, kill more! I'm going
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: in to see John Wick? Deadpool.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: The humor has become opened up wildly because of, let's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: be honest, he was put in the hands of a
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: very talented comedian, a comedic voice named Ryan Reynolds.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: And he bent Deadpool to his will.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: People tell me, look, there's the Deadpool that Marvel Comics
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: give you, whether it's by me or any of the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: other authors, and then there's Ryan's Deadpool. And as he
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: has become more well-known as Deadpool, he has made Deadpool
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: more him. I know people who believe that he plays
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Deadpool in multiple roles now, just because they've gotten used
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: to hearing that voice as Deadpool.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: See, I create a character for Marvel. I get a
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: great royalty share. I get a creator share. It's great.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: I love those movies. I love that merchandise.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: It helped put my kids through all manner of schooling
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: and bought multiple cars because.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Every kid needs a car, right?
• 37:16
  Speaker 13: Whatever.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, at the end of the day,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I don't own Deadpool. And when they take him and
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: put him in other people's hands, you have to just
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: observe and watch. But I'm not going to not tell
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: you that that character exists because I put him into existence.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Because that is, you know, I have a contract that
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: says that, that dates back to 1990. But what they
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: do with him, whether it's in cartoons, games, look, the game.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: Is very overrated. If I can tell you this story,
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: my kids are super gamers when they were, my sons
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Chase and Luke were mega gamers. I do not have
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: that talent. But I would watch them do crazy, I mean,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: amazing things. So Deadpool's getting his game. It's 2014.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: We're going to GameStop after basketball practice. I have all
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: three kids with me. My wife is at home.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: I have my daughter, Chase, and Luke. And we walk
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: into GameStop, and I go up, and I know the
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Deadpool game is R-rated. Does that mean I have two
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: minutes left? No, you're good. Oh. I'm sorry. Keep going.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: So the thing is, I said, hey, can we get
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: the Deadpool game? Okay. Sir, we've had angry mothers returning
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: this game all day. Oh, by the way, this is
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: 6 p.m. in the evening, so I guess it's after practice.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: And we just have to warn you that this has
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: become a very problematic game for us.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: We've got a lot of angry moms today. I just
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: need to tell you that. I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Can I have the game? And then a manager comes out.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: I just want to... You know, go by what my
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: employee just told you. We really want to warn you.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: And my son Chase goes, my dad created Deadpool. Give
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: him the game. And I said, I'm sorry. I just
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: like to buy the game, you know. And so we
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: bought it. And I just told you, I don't play
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: video games. And I, is it LARPing? I don't know.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: I lived through my son.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I gave the son to Luke Liefeldt.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Who in 2014 is 13. I said, play the game, son.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: He's like, sure thing, dad.
• 39:31
  Speaker 10: I've been playing Star Wars games, but I'll play this
• 39:33
  Speaker 10: R-rated game for you.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: And he doesn't know what he's doing. He's got his
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: mic on.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: He's going on.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: He's in the beanbag. I'm sitting in the game room
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: watching him. Well, to enter the third level.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: My wife walks in, and Deb was walking towards a
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: girl in a jacuzzi wearing a very skimpy bikini.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: I've never played this game. I didn't know it was coming.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: But then they have the perspective of the hands going,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: so here's the camera.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: And my wife, I hear from behind, what are you
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: doing in here? Oh, Luke, stop the game, stop the game.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I never got beyond that third level because I wasn't.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: Able to play the game again. So, like I said,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: the game developers, and let me tell you, for a
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: year they'd come up to me and say, hey Rob,
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: I'm so and so, I'm working on the game, you're
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: going to love it, the game, yeah!
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: It's R-rated, yeah!
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, right on.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Because that's just my, like I told you, I read
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: a story about a kid who saw off the head
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: of a giant and walked around with it. And then, like,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: you know, murdered people to be with their wives. Like
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm not justifying it, but The Bible is R-rated.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: So when I go see people, just plunge bullets into people.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Because not everybody in the Bible is redeemed.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: And we can have that battle of intellect.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: But the bottom line is what people do with your creations,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: you have no control of. I can only speak to
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the origins of it. But at the end of the day, yes,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: when you make stories, Star Wars is nothing without Darth Vader.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Without Darth Vader walking through that hall in your dark,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Sith Lord, the movie doesn't mean anything. And then later
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: with the Emperor and his cackling. You've got to have
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: bad guys and you've got to have good guys. And
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: sometimes you have compromised people. Han Solo is not someone
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I want my son to grow up to be.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: I watched it again for my birthday.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I turned 59. I'm like, I'm going back to 1977.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And my son walked by me and he goes, I
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: knew you were going to watch Star Wars today.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: I'm like, yep.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: And Han Solo is a total scoundrel, two-faced liar, cheat, and.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: We love him. He's called an anti-hero. It's a scoundrel.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: And it's just fiction. What I make is fiction, but
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the talent that I
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: make it with, I give the glory where it belongs.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Because I'm just a storyteller, but storytellers need all manner
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: of characters, otherwise we're not invested. The Bible has villains,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you know? And that's why we're invested. David is nothing
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: without Goliath. Goliath defines him. Not only to us in
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the world, but what happens to his legend in the
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Bible and how people... He's the kid who killed the.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Giant, right? So anyway, I'm not sure I answered your question.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: These are just my thoughts. And I'm sharing. All right, Brock,
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: you're going to get it fast.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: This is on you, man.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: You're going to answer this fast. If I don't ask
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: this question... I don't answer anything fast. You got this.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: I am long-winded.
• 42:23
  Speaker 7: If I don't ask you this question, I'm going to
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: get in trouble here. In two months, we have Avengers Doomsday.
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:35
  Speaker 7: When we saw Ryan Reynolds walk by in that outfit,
• 42:38
  Speaker 7: is he.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: In this new movie? Is it out in two months?
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: It's out in two months. Find out in two months.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: Is that fast? It is pretty fast. He can wink
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: at us, though. All right, fair enough.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Here's the deal.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: You told me you were recording this, and there are
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: people who probably have their phones on me.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: I'm not doing a jack.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: I'm not doing a jack.
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: Can we get a mic back here?
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: All right, if you want to raise your hand, if
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: you have a question, we're going to get to these
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: really fast.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:10
  Speaker 8: Luke, you picked on you, dude.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: You can. Here's the deal.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Ask your question quickly.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: I want name and your question. My name is Esteban.
• 43:19
  Speaker 9: I want to ask you, why do you think that
• 43:20
  Speaker 9: people from different cultures, nationalities, and ways of seeing the world.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: I can't see you. I have to see you. Okay,
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: I'll start again. Okay, why do you think that people.
• 43:29
  Speaker 15: From different cultures, nationalities, and ways of seeing the world,
• 43:33
  Speaker 15: CNN superheroes can identify and inspire themselves to be better
• 43:36
  Speaker 15: people without having the same.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Point of view.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't quite understand the question.
• 43:45
  Speaker 13: Can you rephrase that in like one sentence?
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: I'm not very bright.
• 43:53
  Speaker 13: Why can people from different cultures be affected by different superheroes?
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: So, okay. We all get excited about aspirational. I'd love
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: for these two guys to weigh in, too.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: So, look, whether it was Magic Johnson, I was watching
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: the Lakers when they drafted him. Those games were played
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: after 11 o'clock at night. I mean, it wasn't the
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: NBA that we know today. But then there's Kobe Bryant.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: And when Shaq and Kobe were tearing through the league,
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: I'd be like, it's Spider-Man and the Hulk! We crush everybody!
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: He's the Hulk, Kobe's Spider-Man!
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: We just, there's aspirational things that we put on superheroes
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: because they are so fantastical and I think they do
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: grant us an escape and we want to believe that somehow, someway,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: if we put on the cape or the utility belt,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: we'll solve problems. We know that's not true. There is
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: no Deadpool in real life. There is no Batman with
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: prep time or not.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: And we all... But.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, like.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I said, for me, I was into the heroes of
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: the Bible, and they all disappointed me because they died.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Because I wanted the further adventures of Samson. I wanted
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: to go to every colony and crush them. But that
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: story ended. So, I mean, it's a little bit of
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: an indulgent, we're indulging fantasies to derive aspiration. But like
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I said, I put capes on Shaq and Kobe, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they didn't ask for them.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they'd be like, why are you calling us
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: Spider-Man and the Hulk? I'm Kobe and that's Shaq.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure I answered your question again because
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I'm a little touched.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: That's great. We've got one right here.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Hello.
• 45:33
  Speaker 14: Okay, so to me, Deadpool is someone who hides his
• 45:35
  Speaker 14: emotions behind humor.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: But as Christians, we're called to be real and honest
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: about who we are.
• 45:40
  Speaker 15: Has creating Deadpool taught you anything about being authentic and
• 45:43
  Speaker 15: being honest with yourself.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: And with God?
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: You know, talking about my dad, so he had four
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: more cancer surgeries and the last one took his life.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: So cancer touched my family. It's why Deadpool has the
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: cancer story. Because by the time I'm doing Deadpool, that's
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: his fourth one. And each time, so... Eight months before
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: I get married, again, my mom and dad, they would
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: keep things secret. We need to talk to you.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, my dad's not going to be allowed
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: to watch me get married. So there's the cancer journey.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: And again, going to the hospital. My dad had 18-hour,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: 19-hour surgeries. So the cancer aspect of Deadpool is very
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: personal to me. But, you know, for me, I'm putting
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: stuff on the page that's entertaining. And let me tell
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you something, what entertaining gets me is it gets me
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: an audience with people.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: And then I share who I am with people.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: So I don't get invested terribly with the actions of
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: the characters because at the end of the day, they
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: serve a purpose to entertain. I'm an entertainer with comic
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: book stories. And then I get to stand in front
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: of people and share my story and share my authenticity
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: because I'm real. Deadpool's not real. And neither is Superman,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: as great as he is. And I used to love Superman.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: He was this aspirational character. And then they gave Superman
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: a political side.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: Like 15 years ago, I'm like, No, no, no, don't
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: make him comment on politics. He's Superman.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: He loves everyone. The Superman, the most like Christ character
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: ever is Superman. Two Jewish men who were impoverished, wanting
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: to make a better life for themselves.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, come on. They give him up. I mean,
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: it's part Moses, part Jesus. They kind of put him
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: in the Nile and sacrifice him for the betterment. serves us.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: It's a super Christ story, but when they start putting
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: politics and other stuff in there, I'm like, wait, what's this?
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: Don't leave that alone.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: But the people, I'm sure, I never got to meet
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: with the creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster, but I
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: did get to.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: Meet Jack Kirby. Hang out with him. Go out to
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: dinner with him. Go to his house multiple times. Become
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: friends with him. And I got to know that guy.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: And I got to know his faith.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: But I didn't get to know that faith from the
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Fantastic Four, but I wouldn't be interested in him unless
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: there was the Fantastic Four.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: So that's my answer. Great. Thank you so much. We
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: have one in the back over here.
• 48:12
  Speaker 16: I just want to say thank you for coming to
• 48:16
  Speaker 16: Torrey Conference this year. And my question is, do you
• 48:19
  Speaker 16: think God can use a story that never mentions him
• 48:22
  Speaker 16: to accomplish something missional? And if so, what makes a
• 48:25
  Speaker 16: story spiritually meaningful without turning it into a Christian message?
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Well, so you're asking me. God can use anything, anywhere,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: for any glory. That's the end of the story. So
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: whether it's a story, whether it's a guy who throws
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a touchdown in the last seconds, and then when the
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: mic gets in front of him, he goes, I just
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: want to give all the glory to God.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: Come on, we're Christians. I still see my wife go, yeah!
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: If you throw a touchdown or make a last-minute shot
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: or block some shot and you give the glory.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: To the Lord, my wife will be your fan for
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: the rest of her.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, man! They're Christians! Yeah! I mean, immediately.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: So God can use anything, anytime, anywhere. So stories are
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: ultimately nothing to him. I don't... So I don't believe
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: God has read the New Mutants for Day.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I don't. And that's my answer. Great. Thank you. I
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: have one right here. Here, I'm going to pass the mic.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: Can you see it on the left? So my favorite
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: X-Men hero is Nightcrawler, and he is Catherine. And he
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: is Catherine.
• 49:24
  Speaker 15: And the new X-Men 97 is shown to have a
• 49:26
  Speaker 15: lot of connection with space. And we are a lot
• 49:28
  Speaker 15: of creatives here, ACMA, arts, a lot of that. And
• 49:31
  Speaker 15: I'm questioning, after 40 years of being in the comic
• 49:33
  Speaker 15: book industry, how would you recommend, but also how would you.
• 49:38
  Speaker 15: Nowadays try to show these Christian characters that are openly Christian,
• 49:43
  Speaker 15: but also flawed in creative media, such as comic books,
• 49:46
  Speaker 15: TV shows, and movies.
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: The last part, Shady, and how would I what?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: How would the first part?
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: Sorry, say the last sentence. How would you.
• 49:59
  Speaker 15: Show Christians, flaws, characters, in movies, comic books, with your experience?
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: Well, so here's the deal. Great question.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: The thing I really liked about Nightcrawler early on in
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: his very first appearance, he's running from people who want
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: to burn him because they think his appearance makes him
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: look like a demon. And so he's this terribly burdened guy.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: He didn't ask to look the way he did, but
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: they think he looks like a demon. He's a genius character.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Tremendous character. And then you find out that he's got
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: this deep Catholic faith.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: That he wrestles with. So, you know what, I would.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Personally, as a believer, I would love to see Captain
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: America pray before.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: He goes into battle, but you're not going to get that.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: That's not happening, and it's certainly not happening in this
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: day and age.
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: That's become too loaded, sadly. But, you know, like, for instance,
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: I have a.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Story of a character that I created 30-plus years ago
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: named Evangeline.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: She's an angel.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: She falls to Earth, and I explore so much with her.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: One thing, she never has a romance because I'm like,
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: she's not going to be you know, getting into a
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: romantic adventure.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I don't need that. But she has a priest who's.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Doubting his faith and she walks through his doors desperate
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: because now she's.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: In human form.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Every issue of Evangelion that has come out so far, well,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: the next three that come out starting today, one, two, three,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: we've relaunched it.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I'm not here to plug it. I'm just giving you.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: She prays in every single issue and.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: There was somebody who I was working with on the
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: book that asked off the book And I wondered if
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: it was because they didn't like that I have religion
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: and faith and God in it. And I just accepted
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: their sidestepping that book as, okay, this is something that.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: Rob expects me to, this character is praying? Because that's
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: just not common.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: But my character is asking the Lord to comfort and
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: guide them. In 1993, I launched a book called Prophets.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: And he has Bible verses. That first issue is plastered
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: with Bible verses.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: And I'm going to tell you, I can time it
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: to the day where the guns came out for me.
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: But I didn't care. I was fearless. The thing about
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: me and my industry, half of them will say I
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: have a big mouth.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: It's just I stand up and I tell people, that's wrong.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: You treat people badly. You should treat creators better, blah, blah, blah.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: The company that he referred to, Image Comics, is the
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: same company today that it was 35 years ago.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: You can walk in with your Mr. Blue Man and
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: keep Mr.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Blue Man.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: You can take and make toys of Mr. Blue Man,
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: make movies, make cartoons. You own it. Image gets a
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: piece for helping you put it to life, but they
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: don't own it. So what does Image own? It owns nothing.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Image Comics owns nothing.
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Everyone at Image Comics owns what they bring into it.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: That's me bringing the generosity of a creative spirit and
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: sharing it with people and trying to like Just empower creators. So,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: of course, I'm not going to stand for it when
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I think creators are treated bad by any company.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: And I understand the people that don't speak up because
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: it's like, I may lose my page rate. I don't care.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I'm employed for 41 years. Like, you're not, like, all
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: the bullets have been sprayed at me. And I have
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: been protected. So I'm going to continue to speak up.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: And I know I'm a little off base here. But
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: why'd you ask me? You know, why'd you ask me here?
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go off base.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: You're good, you're good.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: Right to the right. Yeah, we all, right at the middle.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: Hello, my.
• 53:25
  Speaker 15: Name is Garrison, and my question is, if Deadpool walked
• 53:30
  Speaker 15: into a church on a Sunday, what do you think
• 53:32
  Speaker 15: about the church and Christian faith would.
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: Make him stay, and what do you think would make
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: him leave?
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: So the character is deranged, and science did that to him.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if you've met with a deranged person,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: but I'm not sure it would go the way you
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Imagine it would on either way. Deranged people are going
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: to do deranged things.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: They have definitely made him. So he was deranged, disfigured.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: You know, you guys, the whole thing was you got
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: this program that's putting out Wolverine. I am the first
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: guy that goes beyond the Wolverine program. I asked my editor, Mr. Editor,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: love this guy.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: His name was Bob. He gave me all these amazing opportunities.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: I said, Wolverine, you call him Weapon X. correct me
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: if I'm wrong, the X is Roman numeral 10. That's correct.
• 54:20
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Then, what about the other nine? And I said, Deadpool
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: is weapon nine. He's, before they perfected, because Wolverine kind
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: of came out okay.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: He doesn't look disfigured.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: He's got these rad claws that retract, and he's super violent,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the way little Robbie Liefeld loved the Old Testament.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: And so, I'm all in.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: But I was like, what about getting there? What about
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: all the broken eggs before they made the omelet? So, Deadpool,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: by and large, was supposed to, and they approved all
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: of this. They were like, Rob, we're cool, we're cool.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: And then I, ironically, your name's Garrison. Weapon 11 is
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Garrison Kane. And he is introduced in X-Force 2. And again,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: now they've perfected it. So you've got Deadpool is when
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: he was deranged.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: And then after that, everything was coming out much more smoothly.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: So Deadpool is the last, like, broken egg.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure a broken egg that's scrambled the
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: way he is, that walks into a church, I don't,
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, God can reach.
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: The deranged for sure, but I'm not sure.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Like, some people, I went to In-N-Out, how many people
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: go to In-N-Out? My wife and I went to In-N-Out
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: the other night, and I said, Joy, you should have
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: been here with me when I was alone the other day,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you, because at In-N-Out, it's now
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: apparently okay to have your children with their shoes stand
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: on the tables and stomp, and my wife and I
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: are like, We would never have let our kids do that,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: but these crazy parents are letting these kids with these
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: dirty feet stomp and walk on tables that.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: You're going to eat food from.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: Okay? But I said, Joy, I can go to you
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: one better.
• 55:53
  Speaker 10: I was in here five days ago, my favorite In-N-Out,
• 55:56
  Speaker 10: and at that table.
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: There was a deranged dude playing his phone, super volume.
• 56:02
  Speaker 10: I don't know what he was watching, soap operas or something,
• 56:05
  Speaker 10: but he was just nodding to it, eating his food.
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: And then the guy next to him, which looked like
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: I thought he was a respectable dude, he dialed up
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: a call and had a call.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: On speakerphone right next to me.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: I don't think going to church on a Sunday is
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: going to help either of those dudes. Okay?
• 56:22
  Speaker 10: I don't think he's not going to listen to his
• 56:24
  Speaker 10: TV at full bore and in and out. And I
• 56:26
  Speaker 10: don't think he's not going to make calls for all
• 56:29
  Speaker 10: of us to hear and listen in. So, deranged people
• 56:31
  Speaker 10: walking to a church on Sunday are irrelevant.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: Are we done? We've got one final question here. I
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: have been such a disappointment. I'm so sorry. Yes? Hi,
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: I'm Caroline.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Do you think that Christianity has found its way into
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: the Marvel Universe without the creators intending it?
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: You tell me. I don't see it. Am I missing something?
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: I think, look, you guys, we have never been in
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: a world... Okay, so.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I'm driving here. I'm talking to my best friend as
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I'm driving here. And I'm getting on the freeway on
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Imperial Highway. And I'm over in the lane. And the
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: car in front of me is now blinking rapidly. They
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: need to get out of the lane. They do not
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: want to get on the freeway. And there's plenty of road.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I just redid my license yesterday. Because I'm old, they
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: made me take the test.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: I was so ticked off. But I'm sitting there reading
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: all these rules of the road, and I'm acing it.
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: So I'm reading this, and it's talking about what you're
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: allowed to do and how many. This person was doing it.
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: They wanted out of the lane. They don't want to
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: go on the freeway.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: The cars next to them closed them off and would
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: not let them. And I'm literally like, let.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: This person, they want out of the lane. What is
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: wrong with the society? No, you're not going to get
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: in my space.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: We are living in the most difficult times of my
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: lifetime and I know of yours.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: It's not even close.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I can't speak to the World War II era or
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: any stuff like that, but I was born during Vietnam.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: And so I've seen the world. I remember like, mom,
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: why is the president getting on the plane and waving
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: at us? And she was like, oh, he's resigning. So
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: I was there when Nixon said bye-bye. So, I mean,
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: I've been there. I've seen humiliation of presidents. I've been there.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: We are at the most supercharged that we've ever been. But,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: come on, we have to share our faith. And if
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: you want to make a comic where somebody prays or
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: proclaims their belief, you do that. But I'm not sure
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: that that's going to make it through the systems that
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: are so heavily now... There's guardrails.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: And I think.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: You guys, it used to be being a Christian was
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: something like, you know, proclaiming your faith.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: That's why I thought I was bold in doing it
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: when I was a kid.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Anyone who met me, they'd know my dad's a minister,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: and I'm of the faith, and some people didn't want
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: anything to do with me.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: It brought me closer to others.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: I have some great friends who are hardcore atheists, not
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: just the one you mentioned, like five of them, and
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: they're in the business.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: And they'll say to me, like, do you really give
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: some money to your church?
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: And I say, I do. I tithe.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Ugh.
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: And I get told that I'm nuts for that. But
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: that's okay. That doesn't change my intention whatsoever.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: So I just believe that these giant corporations now, they
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: protect and have.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: guardrails and all that stuff. So do I want that
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: to be the case?
• 59:13
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Do I think it's... You show me, and then I'll know. Okay,
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: here's the deal.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I do think it's in the Marvel Universe, but I
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: think it's more subtle. So, for example, take Infinity War
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: and Endgame.
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: Builds up ten years of the most epic storytelling possible
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: trying to tell the greatest hero imaginable.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Who's the greatest hero?
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: The one who willingly lays down his life for another.
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: So in Infinity War, you have Captain America saying, we
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: do not exchange lives until only one out of 14
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: million ways to save the universe is for Iron Man
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: to willingly lay his life down. So I think of like,
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: and you can tell me if you think I'm crazy,
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: we're pushing time here. But I think of, I forget
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: all the names you give this, when Thanos is throwing
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: off Gamora because you have to sacrifice something in love
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: to get the Soul Stone, and she's like, this is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: not real love. Real love does not sacrifice another. Real
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: love lays his own life down. I think it's all
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: over the Marvel Universe. It's just not in your face.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: I think it's in Fantastic Four. The question, would I
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: give up my child To save the entire universe. I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: think these themes are woven through subtly in ways people
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: don't even see.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: I can keep going on. We're pushing time.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: I love this guy. I don't think you're crazy. My
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: name is Diego. I'm part of the CMA program here
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: at Biola. I think Ray West could be here. Thank
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: you so much for coming here.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 8: And speaking as a personal CMA goober who's trying to
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 8: express his art and trying to go out into the crazy,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 8: scary world of LA, what advice do you give to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 8: all Christians as we try to move forward through media,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: through art, through what we try to do and how
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 8: can we better glorify that with the big red kills
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 8: of whatever the world tries to do on us.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: So here's the deal, man.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: I've told you, I have never shied away. I really,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you right now, it's just, you know,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: other people will say mumbo jumbo. I said it the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: last time.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: I have a really good friend.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the accent again this time.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: But he, all of my atheist comic book friends, and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: there are many of them, and I think they think
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I'm a lunatic for the way I believe, but I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: have never compromised once.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: And they'll say things to me like, you go to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: church on Sundays? I do. And I don't feel like
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: God calls like, oh, Rob, you better go. I'll tell
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: you what I told my kids when I would drive
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: them every week.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I said, guys, the church is open every Sunday for
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: us to go join with other believers and to celebrate
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: and to rejoice and to be in fellowship with others.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: And I try and take that opportunity every time I can.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: And I hope as you grow up, you'll see it
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: the same way. I don't believe, you know, there was
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: a member of my family that someone got very concerned
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: about because they stopped going to church. I don't believe,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: they didn't change their lifestyle, they just stopped going to church.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: And it was a final alarm fire for somebody in
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: my family. I'm like, yeah, that's probably not where you
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: should put your focus, okay?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: You don't know the walk that that person is having. But,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: so when people ask, do you go to church?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Do you tithe?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: Are you crazy? You give how much to the church?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's between me and my convictions.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: But here's where I'm getting at. I would tell you
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: going into the arts, do not abandon your faith.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: There is no good reason for you to not be
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: exactly who you are right now. If you are a believer,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: if you love the Lord, go and be a believer
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: and love the Lord in that business. You will be
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: shocked at the conversations you have, at the relationships you meet. Somewhere,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: someone down the line went to church, read a Bible,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: had an experience, and it makes you tremendously more To
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: compromise yourself is just gonna, I believe, set you back
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: from your goals. I don't know, I think you have
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: to embrace, I have never once compromised, and I wanna
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: draw goofy superheroes, okay? I mean, the stuff I draw
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: is lunatic, and write is crazy stuff. But I'm blessed.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: My career, you know, I did a book in 1993
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: called Profit, I was at the top of my game,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: selling a million of everything I touched.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: For 10 years, everything I sold was top of the charts.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: And I told my kids, like I had this, what
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: you call the Midas touch, but I knew it wasn't
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: It was, I was being blessed.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: So I thought, man, you know what I'm going to
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: do now? I'm going to do a book and I'm
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: going to put Bible verses in it. And John Prophet
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: is inspired by the word of the Lord. And so
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: there's Prophet number one, 1993. There's Bible verses all through
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: it as he's fighting and battling robots. So he's not
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: like Samson breaking people's jaws and dropping temples on people.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: So it's just robots. But he's got scripture.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: I'm putting scripture in Bibles.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to tell you, did I see the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: targets on me increase? And that's a pretty big way to.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: Announce to people.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Because I don't see that in Captain America or Iron
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Man or Batman with scripture.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying I should. I don't need Batman
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: to have scripture. I enjoy Batman for Batman.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Or Spider-Man for Spider-Man.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: But I chose this route. Because I wanted to be
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: more vocal.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: And I've done weirdo comics, man. Where Jesus comes off
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: the cross and beats up all the other gods.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: And I just wanted to do it. It's like all
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: the other gods were making fun of Christ on the cross. Like,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: look at him, silly Jesus.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: And Jesus gets off the cross and beats the.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Crap out of Zeus and Odin and all the other
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: gods of Thor.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: And it was just this weird... You want to talk
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: about high art? I don't know. But the.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Thing is, do not abandon your faith.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: There is no reason.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Be genuine.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: Be authentic.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: That is what people relate to. And you know what?
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I don't go to church to be blessed. It's not transactional.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: You shouldn't go and be in your faith for God
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: to give you a great role. That's not what I'm saying.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: I want to make very clear what I'm not saying.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: But you will have.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: I think, a better experience in the arts if you
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: are authentic and if you don't, I'm just going to
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: say it again, abandon your faith, okay?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 15: I'm part of the CMA program, and Rob, I first
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 15: want to say, absolutely love your work.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: Thank you, sir!
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I love the Deadpool characters, love the comics, love the movies.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: I especially love the gimmicks. For example, Taskmaster, always trying
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: to get away from Deadpool.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: But my personal favorite is seeing the fourth wall place.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 17: And I wanted to ask you about that Is there
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 17: any sort of secret sauce you have for the fourth
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 17: wall breaks?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: And do you think there's an aspect of religion that
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: helps with that? No.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: That's the fastest. Thank you for that question. The last
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: part I'll just say no. So fourth wall characters.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: So I have a podcast because I just like talking comics.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: And I did an entire.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: The fourth wall breaking comic starts with a character called
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Howard the Duck. Hugely popular comic in the 70s. Went
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: on to be a terrible movie. But the comics were fun,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: and he would turn and talk to us. His comics
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: were printed in 1976, 77, 78. Then She-Hulk breaks the
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: fourth wall. Then DC characters have some characters that break
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: the fourth wall. Jim Lee and I did a comic
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: in 1993 called Darker Image.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: He had a character called Death Blow. I had a
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: character called Blood Wolf. 1993, Blood Wolf breaks the fourth.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Wall, talks directly at you, makes jokes, kills kind of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: a cable-looking character. And so that was my first time
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Breaking the fourth wall can be really funny.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: So five years later, they put that application on Deadpool.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: So Deadpool had been around about a decade, and now
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: they put that on there. And like I've said, if
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: that's why you like him, then that is a writer
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: named Joe Kelly applied that fourth wall aspect to him.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: What I can tell you is the dozens of statues
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: and the video games that came before that and his
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: cartoon appearances and his toys on every toy shelf since 1993...
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Deadpool was still so ridiculously popular, but if the fourth
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: wall broadened.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: That and broadened the new audience, fantastic. But I don't
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: believe it has any... I'm sorry. The fourth wall, I
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: don't see the Christianity there. Are we ready in the back?
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: Hi, my name's Harry.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 14: So obviously you've created some characters that aren't.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: The traditional Christian role models.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 14: So when you tell stories that are exploring those darker themes,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 14: how do you distinguish between portraying those things and compromising
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 14: your faith? And how do you think meaningful Christian ideas
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 14: can compromise characters like that?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to go back to... I'm going
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: to be as basic as I can. Like I said,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: if you watch these two cats go at it on.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 12: Social media, they're going to give you the deepest theological...
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 12: I remember my dad, he went to Talbot University and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 12: got his master's and I remember sitting there and going,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 12: what's a master's?
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: But my dad was deep into that.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Theology as well. These guys are going to slap you
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: and watch their videos and they're going to educate you.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: I'm not.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: I tell fantasy stories that I think fall on the
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: side of good entertainment. but certainly characters are corrupted they
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: are compromised it's all part of the hero's journey so
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: as I said earlier and it's not a comment it's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: my life I'm sitting in front of you today.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: Because I made comic books for 41 years.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: And I get to tell stories, and people have a
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: curiosity about that. And so I don't sit down and go,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: how am I going to glorify the Lord with this story? No,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to glorify the Lord by making the story,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: by using the talents he gave me.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: And then I'll talk about it after I put it
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: into the world. So again, I will.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: Tell you, I mentioned last time, and I know I'll
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: try and keep this really brief. Samson was one of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: my heroes of the Bible when I was a kid.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Killed the lion and killed the Philistines. Killed so many Philistines.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: I've got to be honest. Turned me on as a kid,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: how violent Samson was. I mean, he was killing everybody.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: And I was like, this guy is rad, and God
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: gave him the strength, and then he is a complete dumbass.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: He is a complete dumbass. I'm glad that we love
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: the violence as much as I do.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: As I grew older, I learned, Samson really had very, very, very, very, very,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: very few in.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: The kingdom of God.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: He is a complete loser who the Lord uses.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: No, he lies, he cheats, he steals, he's a mocker,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: but God used him.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: And I believe that's an allegory for all of our lives.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Because literally, I mean, God gives Samson the secret and
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: because he.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 18: Loves Samson, He's enthralled or in full lust. He's like, hey, babe,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 18: let me tell you how to kill me. And she does.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 18: She puts him in a position where he's now captive.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: And then at the end of his life, when he
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: knows it's over, he asks God, come upon me. Use
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: me one last time. And God's like, I can do that.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: I can drop this entire temple on these scumbags.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: And he does. But I thought he was a hero.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: And he was even marketed as hero of the Bible.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: But as an adult, you understand, he's a deeply, deeply, deeply,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: deeply flawed man but he's used for God's glory.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: So if I'm flawed but used for glory, then I
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: had a good day.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, we're pushing time here, but we got one more
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: in the back.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: We're ready to go.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: I know you want one up here, but let's go
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: back here. Got to be quick.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: Go. Hello. Thank you, first of all, so much for
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: coming out. I just wanted to ask, in your time
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: when you created Deadpool, you said there.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 13: Was such a landscape of dark, gritty characters, and so
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 13: you were able to find a niche that was different
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 13: than that.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know how much you.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 13: Still follow comics and still follow sort of pop culture media,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 13: but in today's world, do you see any sort of
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 13: themes that are overly portrayed and maybe a niche that
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 13: is not so much used that somebody could create a
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 13: character out of right now?
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: You know what I see?
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: I see a lot of, I maybe see a leaning
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: more towards, like we've seen so many compromised characters. And
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: the one thing I liked about James Gunn's Superman movie
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: is Superman was back to being the Superman of my youth.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: He's a good guy. He's a good guy who wants
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: to help people.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: And as I've said, Schuster and Siegel created, and they
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: come of Jewish backgrounds, and they were very honest in
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: how the Christ story was inspirational for Superman. And if
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: you look at it, he's sent away. It's Superman meets Moses.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: It's the whole Superman story. and then he's kind of
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: like a man who can perform all these great miracles.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: But he serves others.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: He's this incredibly selfless person, and that's what I grew
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: up with, and I saw so much of Christ in Superman.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: So I would love to see just more do-gooders and less,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I've seen so many characters that I grew up and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: I loved, and even recently that.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: Have been compromised and turned into, like, why did they
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: do this?
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Did they just think that this character needs to be
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: kind of super compromised now in order to be relatable?
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: So I think James Gunn, Superman, and then still Chris
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Evans as Captain America.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: He is the ultimate awesome Boy Scout. We root him on.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: They haven't messed him up yet. Please don't mess him up, Robert.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: Can't wait to see him next to Deadpool 2 in December.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Literally don't think that's happening.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: Wait till Secret Wars.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 6: Hi, my name is Nathan.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 17: In Death Pool of Rain, As a theology geek and
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 17: raging Marvel addict, what was your reaction when Devil Clothes,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 17: I'm Marvel Jesus.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: I had family members tell me they were praying for me.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: That's my answer.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Because one side of me was.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: Like, whoa, that's heretic.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 17: And the other side of me was, it's still pretty funny.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: Let me take this. This is a great way to
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: end it because I did cost my family. It cost
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: me friendships in my family.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: People took to Facebook publicly, family members, to accost me,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: drag me out into the town square and say, like.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: And these people know my heart. And I had nothing
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: to do with that. But I was publicly being flogged.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: And you know the easiest thing to do? Flog.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: Flog.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: Flog.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: And I don't... associated.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: With those people anymore.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: I don't have any tolerance for that.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: I understand, see, I also understand that it is, in
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: many ways, the heretic aspect of it.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: And so, but I can't change that it was put
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: into the world. And I can't change that it was
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: attached to him.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: And I'd be.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: Lying if I didn't laugh, okay? Ryan Reynolds could read
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: The phone book would make me laugh, okay? He's got
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: that way he talks with that voice. My wife has
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: a great Ryan Reynolds imitation. But like I said, I
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: was immediately condemned and judged. And do you think that's
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: what the good Lord wants us to do?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: He doesn't.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: It's the plague of social media. And unfortunately, like I said,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: that person revealed their character to me. And so rather than,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: I was really put on the roaster. I just was like,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: what we should all do sometimes, those people just want
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: to take my energy and engage it in the worst
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: possible way.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: I need to move on and continue to do.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Me, so I just left that behind. I don't know
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: if that's the answer you're looking for, but that's my life.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: Sorry.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: Rob, that's a good answer.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Super sad to me that that happened to you. I
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: laughed at that scene, for the record. It didn't bother
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: me at all.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: Like, given the character and the nature of it, I'm like, oh,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: that makes sense you would say that.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: So, Southern Baptist upbringing, baby.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: No, I get it. We, uh, one of our arts,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: how many of you are part of the CMA program here?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 5: We have one of the top cinema meeting arts programs,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: I think, anywhere, especially in the Christian world, have a
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: new huge theater that came up And the head of
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: our whole program worked on things like The Walking Dead.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: You might know Kirkman.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 5: I would assume you know Kirkman.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: Just amazing to really teach your wisdom.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: And discernment, but also kindness towards people who maybe navigate
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 5: some of these issues differently than we would according to
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 5: our Christian convictions.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: Can we pray for you? Go ahead. Just pray that
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: God will bless you. Do you want to pray, Scott?
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: I would love to.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: Can we just lift a hand up for Rob as
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: he enters back?
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 7: Dearly Father, Lord, thank you so much for an opportunity tonight, Lord,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 7: just ultimately talk about you, Lord, and to glorify you.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: Lord, I pray for Rob as he heads back into.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: The comic book world, to the film media, Lord, that.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: You would just use him as a light.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 7: And that when people are lost, Lord, they would look
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 7: to Rob and be able to see hope, be able
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 7: to see Jesus in him, Lord.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: So I thank you, and you are worthy of all
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: of our praise.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: In Jesus' name, amen. All right, last name, last name.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: Do you have any question that jumped out to you
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 5: from the last one?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: That was a thoughtful question.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: Let's give it to the Wikipedia guy.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Wikipedia guy. Next course, number one.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 4: Come on up here.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 5: The rest of you, thanks for coming. We pushed the time.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 5: Give a hand for Rob one more time.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.