Latest / The Myth of Education Podcast / Ep. 12 | Bonds & Overrides: A Taxpayer's Nightmare

Transcript

Ep. 12 | Bonds & Overrides: A Taxpayer's Nightmare · The Myth of Education Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: There are many ways that K-12 school districts bring in money,
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: from federal grants to state-funded programs,
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: donations,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: special interest groups,
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: local and national partnerships,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: foundations,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: the list goes on and on.
• 0:13
  We decided to scratch the surface of two funding sources that
• 0:18
  impact everyday
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: citizens in a very real way,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: and that's through bonds and overrides.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's to the point now that
• 0:25
  where administrators and board members expect taxpayers to
• 0:29
  comply without scrutiny,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: without question,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: just vote for it if it's on the ballot.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what are bonds?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: What are overrides?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: What is this costing the taxpayers?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Should K-12 communities stop voting to approve these measures?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: All this and more coming up on the Myth of Education podcast.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Myth of Education
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the Myth of Education podcast,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: where we expose corruption in K-12 schools,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: advocate for student safety,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: and defend parental rights on school grounds.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at Myth of Education Podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Follow us on Substack and X at Myth of Education.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: To share your thoughts,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: good,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: bad,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: and ugly,
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: visit MythofEducation.com and click the feedback link.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you appreciate the content and want to support the broadcast,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: visit MythofEducation.com and click the donate link.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get into the broadcast we have a disclaimer.
• 1:33
  All views and opinions expressed by hosts and guests are their
• 1:36
  own and do not
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: reflect the views of any public or private person or entity.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: All rights are reserved.
• 1:44
  Schools get state funding,
• 1:46
  they get local funding,
• 1:48
  and they get federal funding.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the local funding comes strictly through these bonds or overrides.
• 1:55
  And you might hear sometimes where there's a proposition on the
• 1:58
  ballot that says
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: fund schools without raising taxes.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: A bond is another word for a loan.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So basically it doesn't increase taxes on the short term.
• 2:08
  It takes out money in the form of investing in the county or in
• 2:14
  the school district
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: area by selling bonds to financial brokerage houses and so on.
• 2:20
  So they get this money to be able to fund whatever programs
• 2:24
  that they're advertising for.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: They eventually have to pay that back.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it creates a need to...
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: raise taxes down the road.
• 2:33
  The override is another way to be able to have funds raised for
• 2:37
  certain things that
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: they want to do in schools.
• 2:41
  And that is through a tax increase for the people living in
• 2:44
  that school district.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's limitations in what that can be used to pay for.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bonds pay for
• 2:53
  capital improvement projects,
• 2:54
  new structures,
• 2:56
  equipment,
• 2:56
  physical things.
• 2:58
  And the override is limited to the maintenance and operations
• 3:02
  of the school.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So teacher salaries,
• 3:06
  different programs that they want to incorporate that cost
• 3:09
  money for whatever
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: reason.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So at what point should taxpayers say no and let the district fail?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Since we know that the students are failing,
• 3:19
  we know that the type of education that the students are
• 3:22
  getting nowadays is not
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: traditional.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not legacy.
• 3:26
  It's not going along with what we would have learned in civics
• 3:29
  and things like that.
• 3:30
  So why shouldn't we just let a large part of the budget go and
• 3:35
  vote no on bonds and overrides?
• 3:37
  that's a great question and my knee jerk is to uh say no myself
• 3:44
  as i'm going to the
• 3:44
  voters booth the the trouble is tiffany and you probably know
• 3:48
  this whenever schools
• 3:49
  ask for money they typically get it because people want to give
• 3:53
  for the kids and it
• 3:55
  sounds good i mean we see so many tax dollars wasted however
• 3:59
  the politicians want
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: to spend it or are you gonna favor more money for the kids well
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one of those things.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not an educated voter,
• 4:07
  you're going to go in there and just vote for more money for
• 4:10
  the schools and your
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: bonds and overrides because you're thinking of it going to the kids.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm with you.
• 4:16
  I'm thinking,
• 4:17
  why wouldn't we look for some success in an organization before
• 4:21
  we fund it more?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: We always should be skeptical when they say,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 4:25
  the reason why we're not doing well is because we're
• 4:28
  underfunded and we need more
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: funding.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what business would say that?
• 4:31
  The reason why we're failing as a business is we need more
• 4:34
  money and to raise our prices.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just not how things work.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: The government does that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Only the government does it.
• 4:40
  And I like to bring it back to common sense things like a lot
• 4:43
  of parents and a lot
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: of you can understand this.
• 4:46
  I mean,
• 4:46
  because we're all kids at some point looking from that
• 4:49
  perspective.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing they ask when they're hungry is, can I have dessert?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Can I have candy?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:56
  Well,
• 4:57
  you want to make sure that they have the sustenance and the
• 4:59
  basic essentials first.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So in our house,
• 5:03
  we'll give them dessert or candy if they had their peas and
• 5:08
  their meat and a
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: healthy portion of their food.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not just going to give them dessert.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if they have all of that,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: if they have a healthy meal,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: then I'll reward it with some dessert.
• 5:20
  And the reason I'm saying that is a lot of the times the way
• 5:23
  that they're spending
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: money in schools is that they're starting with the dessert,
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: the stuff that you don't really need.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's actually harmful.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So why not make sure that the school is already covering the basics,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: funding the essentials,
• 5:36
  doing well and showing some fruit from it with good math scores
• 5:41
  and good science
• 5:42
  assessment scores before we give them the dessert and allow
• 5:46
  them to have these
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: other things maybe we don't even agree with.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: in a mixed society with public schools,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: even in a perfect world,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to have to give and take.
• 5:54
  But,
• 5:54
  you know,
• 5:55
  that's why I don't say no,
• 5:57
  never to my kids when they ask for dessert or candy.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know in a realistic world,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: you get a little bit of this,
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: but we want to make sure that the essentials are taken care of.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to make sure that they eat their peas.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just like a school,
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: we want to make sure that they're strong in math,
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: strong in science before we start funding other stuff.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be the first test in answer of your question is,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: are the essentials covered first?
• 6:22
  Because sometimes I'm suspicious that maybe they're spending in
• 6:25
  a way that we
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't agree with.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're giving them more money in these bonds and overrides.
• 6:30
  Well,
• 6:30
  in your scenario,
• 6:31
  then the taxpayers are the adult in the situation.
• 6:34
  And clearly the government education system is the child that
• 6:38
  just wants the candy.
• 6:39
  So I guess,
• 6:40
  yeah,
• 6:41
  that does answer my question in saying,
• 6:43
  when do we say no?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't have something to show for it,
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about long term,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: not even just short term.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: in the short term,
• 6:52
  we want the kids to graduate with good test scores and be
• 6:55
  prepared to go out and
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: work and go to college and be in the world.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But even like long term, look at our citizenry overall as a nation.
• 7:04
  Just the generation that's on this earth right now from zero to
• 7:08
  115 year old person is
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: when it comes to education in America,
• 7:14
  what's the average of people that can read here that's alive
• 7:16
  right now who are not
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: even in school anymore?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think in coming back to what you were saying,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: the taxpayers are the adult in the situation.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: They do have to decide collectively.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: These are the types of results that we want to see.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's really no other.
• 7:32
  entity quite like government education that can keep sucking
• 7:36
  money and keep
• 7:37
  surviving even though it's clearly not even working out for the
• 7:41
  majority of the
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: people
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:44
  some of the adults in the room are starting to see this with
• 7:48
  our we're blessed to
• 7:49
  have this ESA school choice program in Arizona where we're able
• 7:54
  to vote with our
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: feet and take our kids elsewhere.
• 7:57
  And so what that does is that creates not only for the ESA,
• 8:02
  but also for students.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: open enrollment,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: if you have in a district,
• 8:08
  half of the kids like we do in my local district in Catalina
• 8:10
  Foothills have opted
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: for something else,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's ESA or another school district in open enrollment.
• 8:20
  Now you have the question of our $6.5 million that we're asking
• 8:25
  the voters to pay
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: for an override or a bond for,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: in our case,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's an override.
• 8:30
  Half of that $3.25 million is going to kids that aren't in our
• 8:38
  immediate tax paying district.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you have this change,
• 8:43
  this shift because parents should have the right to put their
• 8:46
  kids where they think
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: their values and that kids skills and abilities fit best.
• 8:51
  But when they do that and now you don't have the taxpayers
• 8:56
  represented in filling
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: those seats in that school,
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: it becomes really awkward asking the voters to pay for it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we are leading this discussion and talking about Arizona schools,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: since that's where we're both located.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And indeed,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: we know Arizona's K-12 budget,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: it extends far beyond the multiple billions of dollars.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like we don't have anything to show for it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I believe there's some parents who would agree with me.
• 9:19
  Arizona students are born knowing more than they know by the
• 9:22
  time they graduate
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: from our education system.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: But spending continues to skyrocket, right?
• 9:29
  Even though Arizona might be leading the nation in school
• 9:31
  choice and then we do
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: have declining enrollment in government schools,
• 9:36
  the bigger picture here is that all of the schools in America's
• 9:39
  education system
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: across all regions and states and territories,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: is driven by a lot of greed and deception to whatever extent.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's take,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 9:49
  there's this information that was released by the Reason
• 9:52
  Foundation in 2024.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this is from the article that you shared with me.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to read a quote.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I want to give some statistics and get your thoughts.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the quote from 2024.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: It says,
• 10:06
  allow school districts to use previous rather than current
• 10:09
  student counts for funding purposes.
• 10:11
  This promotes stability by giving school districts time to
• 10:15
  adjust their revenue
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: fluctuations caused by enrollment losses.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly,
• 10:20
  funding guarantees promise school districts a minimum level of
• 10:25
  state aid and are
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: often used as a political bargaining chip
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: For instance,
• 10:49
  these dollars could be otherwise devoted to raising per student
• 10:53
  funding for all
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: school districts or to direct greater funds to higher needs students.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: In many cases,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 11:00
  it's unclear exactly how much these provisions cost and which
• 11:05
  districts benefit the
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: most from them as a result.
• 11:08
  policymakers can't easily assess the effectiveness or whether
• 11:13
  these resources could
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: be put to better use for students.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And now here's some statistics, okay?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for California in 2022 through 2023,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: that academic year,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: it said 789 out of 931 school districts,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: that's about 84,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: 85% received declining enrollment funding.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that declining enrollment funding was a thing.
• 11:37
  It says as a result,
• 11:38
  there were an estimated 400,974 ghost students statewide in
• 11:42
  California.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that cost the state about $4.06 billion.
• 11:45
  In Missouri,
• 11:45
  in 2021 through 2022,
• 11:46
  256 out of 518 school districts received
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: declining enrollment funding.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: In 2022 through 23,
• 11:59
  155 out of 541 school districts in Oklahoma received declining
• 12:05
  enrollment funding.
• 12:06
  As a result,
• 12:07
  in Oklahoma,
• 12:08
  there were an estimated almost 3,800 GO students statewide.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about statistics like these,
• 12:16
  and now for the audience members who are like myself that
• 12:19
  didn't even know that
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: declining enrollment funding,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: quote unquote,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: was a thing.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is the takeaway from this?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: This sounds like a big laundering scheme.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 12:28
  it sounds on the surface that if a school is underperforming
• 12:31
  and the parents are
• 12:32
  pulling their kids out or they're leaving for whatever reason
• 12:34
  that the state is
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: then lifting it up and artificially inflating it by puffing in money,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: pumping in money to a declining and failing school.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's necessarily the case in Arizona.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It certainly might be.
• 12:48
  I do know when the state determines how much money that they
• 12:51
  give,
• 12:52
  there's a formula.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's certain criteria on there.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's a lower economic area, it's a more rural area.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: They have extra money going to those schools.
• 13:05
  So in areas like Catalan Foothills in Tucson or Scottsdale
• 13:09
  Unified up in the
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: valley,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to have less state dollars.
• 13:14
  And that's part of why you see these bonds and overrides to be
• 13:17
  able to pay higher
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: teacher wages and that kind of thing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when they say they get funding for declining enrollment,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: it might mean these struggling schools in rural areas.
• 13:30
  I'd have to look to see how that fleshes out in Arizona because
• 13:34
  it might be
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: different in California.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know when that article mentions hold harmless policies.
• 13:42
  That is a safe gap measure so that when a school has a sudden
• 13:47
  shift or a certain
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: drop,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: immediate drop,
• 13:51
  that they don't lose that funding right there in that school
• 13:53
  year so they can keep
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: the same staffing levels,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: even if kids have left.
• 13:58
  the teacher,
• 13:58
  they don't have to lay off teachers and that kind of thing
• 14:01
  until that next year.
• 14:02
  And that's where that hundred day measure comes in that average
• 14:07
  daily membership
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: number that creates a formula that says to the state,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: here's how much you should fund that school for the next year.
• 14:17
  My understanding is that this is yet another way that public
• 14:21
  schools can fund their
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: operations,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: and they're basically doing some projections for upcoming academic years.
• 14:27
  Not only just what they're going to pay the teachers,
• 14:29
  but programmatic funds.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
• 14:33
  we know that state and federal funding is tied to these
• 14:37
  enrollment numbers as we've
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: established.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you say, Dan?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we have administrators,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: educators,
• 14:43
  board members putting together celebrations for the first 100
• 14:47
  days of school.
• 14:48
  And we know that board members are even expected to go out and
• 14:52
  campaign for things
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: like bonds and overrides.
• 14:55
  And then translating that to 100 days of school,
• 14:58
  I mean,
• 14:58
  that's got the kids campaigning.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they do.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Once you get across that 100-day line,
• 15:03
  if you've maintained a certain average number of students that
• 15:08
  satisfies whatever
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: budget you're looking for,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: you can celebrate as an administrator saying,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: we've crossed the line.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So in theory, there's no concerning the rest of the year.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And 100 days is a little over halfway, typically, if I'm not mistaken.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right about the kids celebrating it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have my kids come home and say, hey, it's 100 day of school.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what do you do?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how that translates to any joy.
• 15:36
  But I was going down by a TUSD school yesterday and I saw on
• 15:40
  their big screen
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: outside 100 day of school.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's funny to see.
• 15:46
  But it's important to know the distinction because it's easy to
• 15:49
  look at the charter
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: schools that don't have this.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: They are more live schools.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: reactive.
• 15:54
  And part of the explanation might be because they're newer and
• 15:56
  when they started,
• 15:57
  they didn't have the prior year's data to be able to show where
• 16:00
  they should be
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: funded.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're just kind of starting from scratch.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that raises the question, how do they know what budgets start with?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: But they have to adapt quickly.
• 16:08
  And they're typically smaller and they can do that a little bit
• 16:11
  easier maybe,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: but they still have to do that year after year.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have these live changes,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: whereas enrollment changes,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: they get less money or they get more money.
• 16:20
  But for districts who are basing it on this 100-day average
• 16:25
  daily membership is the
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: technical term for it,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: ADM,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: once they get that 100 days,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: the rest of the year,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: they don't have to worry that the funding's locked in.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to kick in the next year.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this really came about,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: for parents who will remember who had kids at the time in COVID,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: when a lot of kids were getting pulled out.
• 16:43
  I pulled my kids out and we went to charter school for a while
• 16:45
  because I wanted
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: in-person learning.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: oh goodness,
• 16:48
  this is really going to have a big impact because I was able to
• 16:53
  join a bunch of
• 16:53
  other parents and families from our neighborhood who left our
• 16:57
  local school
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: district,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: went to a charter school in the Lehman Academy.
• 17:01
  But little did I know about this 100-day rule and the funding
• 17:03
  just didn't change at all.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of that,
• 17:06
  brought in federal funds that were way beyond what they were
• 17:09
  going to have anyway.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they thrived financially in that era.
• 17:13
  So those are some of the frustrating things that parents have
• 17:15
  to deal with.
• 17:16
  Pulling a kid out,
• 17:17
  whether it's ESA or going to a charter school or open
• 17:20
  enrollment.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't going to have an impact immediately,
• 17:23
  and it may not even have an impact the next year in light of
• 17:27
  all the other sources
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: of funding with bonds overrides and federal dollars.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's really frustrating, Tiffany.
• 17:32
  There's so much money going into these schools that it really
• 17:35
  is a drop in the bucket.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 17:36
  I wouldn't be too discouraged because even though there may not
• 17:39
  be an immediate
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: financial impact,
• 17:42
  I've been in a couple of boardrooms since we had overrides fail
• 17:46
  here in Arizona.
• 17:47
  And I would tell you that the panic among administrators is
• 17:51
  it's very real.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: In every presentation that they're doing,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: in board comments,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: in superintendent comments,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: like it's coming out,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: the fact that the override has failed.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: There is this constant reminder that, oh, we have to cut budgets here.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have to cut funding here.
• 18:06
  So I don't want you or any parents to be discouraged that,
• 18:09
  hey,
• 18:09
  I unenrolled my kid.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: But once you do that,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: the immediate impact is felt when those classroom sizes are smaller,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: when some of the resources that were being drained from the system,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: they seem to go a little faster because you're scrambling now.
• 18:25
  I have seen that panic and usually it's directed to the ESA and
• 18:29
  how evil that
• 18:31
  program is because the schools that are struggling are the ones
• 18:36
  often where the
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: parents want to pull their kids out and move to another option,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's homeschooling or private schooling.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the ESA takes the brunt of that hire, I think.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 18:47
  I think it's easy to demonize the one thing that's actually
• 18:52
  working in favor of the
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: parents.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that that's what we're seeing.
• 18:57
  It's not that ESAs are truly costing the state more money
• 19:00
  because we have evidence
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: that it doesn't.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as if ESAs are disrupting learning, right?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know that the students,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: when they're in the environment where they can learn the best,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: regardless of how the parents are paying for it,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: the kids are going to thrive.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the problem is coming from a social perspective.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to your point,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: the parents shouldn't be discouraged because you can take your child out,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: use those ESA funds or open enroll in a different school,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: whichever.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's one way to do it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: But we just talked about bonds and overrides.
• 19:47
  You can also,
• 19:48
  if you don't agree with how they're spending money or you don't
• 19:51
  think you do.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Look into it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're not,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: and if they're asking for more dessert before they're eating their peas,
• 19:56
  vote against it and bring your friends along to the voting
• 19:59
  booths and have them
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: vote against it,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 20:01
  because what more pressure is there when they see this mass
• 20:06
  mass exodus from their
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: schools and now they don't have the bailout from the voters?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a good point.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good point.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: with a few moments that we have left,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to ask this closing question and get your thoughts on this,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Dan.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is all spending justified?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is no spending justified?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or is there nuance?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my goodness.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: You opened a can of worms.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's for a whole nother episode.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am a—and this might be kind of a crux of where we disagree.
• 20:35
  You know,
• 20:35
  we're not always going to agree,
• 20:36
  you and I,
• 20:37
  Tiffany,
• 20:38
  although we do on most things.
• 20:39
  I really think that there's a place for public tax dollars to
• 20:43
  go into public
• 20:44
  schools because I can't think of anywhere else where you're
• 20:46
  going to have a
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: community together on the same page,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: in theory,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: absorbing in America's founding values—
• 20:54
  together and learning our history and really loving our country
• 20:59
  and learning together.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a need for that.
• 21:02
  And that's in the essentials,
• 21:03
  the,
• 21:03
  you know,
• 21:04
  reading,
• 21:05
  writing,
• 21:06
  arithmetic,
• 21:06
  and just the basics.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't necessarily disagree with you.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I guess here's where I come from,
• 21:12
  is that I want the least amount of tax dollars to be spent on
• 21:17
  public education.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want the government to be as small as possible.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so out of the 1.1 million,
• 21:25
  that's the last census for the amount of kids that I've seen
• 21:28
  enrolled in Arizona
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: schools.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the 1.1 million that's in the public education system,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: how many of those parents can we get a hold of to say,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: there's other options.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, there's ELA.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I noticed this is going to be me getting in someone's business.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 21:45
  I noticed that you've got a house with two extra bedrooms and
• 21:48
  you got three cars,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: but only you and your spouse are driving.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can you downsize and take over your kid's education?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of you needs to quit the job, you know?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 21:56
  But ultimately,
• 21:57
  I just want the least amount of money to be going into public
• 22:01
  schools.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I want there to be competition.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want the government to be small.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the majority of students that come through,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's public,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: charter,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: whatever,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want the majority of them to be able to read,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: to be able to write,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: to know their history and love this country.
• 22:17
  And I'm sorry,
• 22:18
  not sorry,
• 22:19
  but public education is just not producing that anymore.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the faith in that is gone.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of that,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tiffany,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: we don't need to be paying three to five hundred thousand dollars for a
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: superintendent.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's no requirement for a superintendent anyway.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Principals should be able to handle it.
• 22:34
  And the bigger that we grow our administrative staff,
• 22:37
  the more we do wasteful things.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Our friend at Legal Process,
• 22:43
  he wrote extensively on the billion dollar club we're now part
• 22:46
  of among 14 other
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: states that is for non-instructional support.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that non-instructional support is harmful.
• 22:55
  There's a billion dollars in Arizona alone paid to non-English
• 22:59
  speaking students.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's these massive administrative costs.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, we need to pay for, I think, public education.
• 23:07
  And I think you and I are in agreement with that,
• 23:09
  but we don't need the waste.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my goodness.
• 23:12
  When you said eliminating superintendents,
• 23:14
  you want to talk about a can of worms.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: We are definitely going to come back and talk about how they're paid,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: how much they're paid,
• 23:23
  and essentially the competing interests that these high paid
• 23:27
  administrators have,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: because I don't think that their primary goal is to educate children.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: But again, a topic for another time.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Any final thoughts?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:35
  I would just really encourage people as boring and as difficult
• 23:40
  as it can be to
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: navigate your school district's budget,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: just ask some questions.
• 23:46
  And they should have a very simple response with how the money
• 23:50
  is spent and look at
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: how much is spent in these non-essentials.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of these are really great things.
• 23:56
  Kids are having lots of fun and we're hiring great people in
• 23:59
  these schools.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: But is it needed before we ask for more money?
• 24:03
  So let's be good stewards of our money and let's hold our
• 24:07
  administrators and our
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: board members accountable.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree or disagree with our take?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can let us know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Visit mythofeducation.com and click the feedback link.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you appreciate the content and want to support the broadcast,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: visit mythofeducation.com and click the donate link.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: A generous gift of any amount helps keep us on air.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Visit mythofeducation.com and click the donate link.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to like,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: share,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: and subscribe wherever you're listening so you don't miss an episode.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, you've been listening to the Myth of Education podcast.