Latest / The Magic Guys / Joseph Barry | Masterful Estimation #267

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Joseph Barry | Masterful Estimation #267 · The Magic Guys

0:02
They're guys they do magic they are the magic guys,
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well hello friends this is nick gay here from the magic guys welcome to episode
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267 i'm your host nick k we also have this week daddy doug as you can see for
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those watching on the youtube right now.
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He's serving customers at The Trick Supply. I'll be joining us back in just a moment's time.
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Here he comes actually right now. Friends, we are a podcast filled with professionals.
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We talk about all things magic, and sometimes we interview super duper cool
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people. And today is no exception.
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Friends, our guest today is a very, very elusive.
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Oh, sorry, Doug's back. Let's just take a second. Doug, you're back.
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I'm in the house. We're back. We're rolling. Wonderful.
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Doug Kahn, introduce yourself. Hey, I'm Doug Kahn, and capitalism has been done
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at Trick Supply. We're ready for the art part.
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Sensational. Now, friends, this is a live podcast, meaning that we have an active comment section.
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So if you do have any questions, you can put those in the chat to our guest.
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And I think now's a perfect time to jump straight into it. Doug, you ready? Ready.
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Friends, our guest hails all the way from the UK. Hey, I had the pleasure of
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setting up a wonderful friendship with him very, very, very long time ago when
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I actually did my very first lecture.
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We recently bumped into each other once again at Las Vegas, where he was lecturing
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at the Magic Live Convention.
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He's one of the most talented and like annoyingly handsome card guys you've ever seen.
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Top of that, he's extremely elusive and very difficult to get a hold of in most capacities.
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Is and through the spirit of community and magic he's agreed to come and have
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a chat to us about all this work along with his new book plans friends please
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join me in welcoming the amazing mr joe barry.
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Joe barry welcome to the show please tell us who are you and what do you do,
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how's it going guys my name is joe barry i'm a
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magician from england and yeah i do card tricks and stuff so uh that's it really
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that's been our podcast thanks for tuning in thanks for watching guys check
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out our merchandise uh no this podcast is much much more professional than i
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thought it was going to be as well,
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boys. I am very impressed with this.
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Oh, I'm glad, Joe. This is a fism-winning podcast. We take some pride in our work.
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I've heard this. Why don't we run it through post? You're going to have sunglasses
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and big hair and probably a gold chain.
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I'm there for it, mate. No, well, look, for those in America right now,
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it is Star Wars Day. It's May the 4th. Be with you.
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And in the spirit of that, we've got an absolute Master Jedi of card magic. Joe, not everyone...
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Who knows your work and those that do
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like proper card guys were foaming at
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the mouth when I announced that you were going to be part of the show they
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have given me a whole list of questions both Doug
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and myself are super excited about it I mean before we go any further I just
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kind of want to say that like just experiencing you at the table your performance
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is an experience in itself like I'm going to begin with a very very short story
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if I may when we first met Joe it was
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at Rudy Hill at a convention we were doing in New South Wales.
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And we were just, you were having a bite to eat. I sat with you,
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we were having, and then some old folk walk over and you were like,
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oh, do you want to see something?
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And then you just, you had a, you had a pack of playing cards, right?
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And you were sitting next to me and you just lifted the corner of the cards
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and you just flashed like a six of spades to me.
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You just, just a flash, you just went, you're like, you showed me like, see this?
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Without saying it, but you went, see this. And I went, okay.
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Then he squares up the deck.
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And hand to God, no brakes, no little offset, not one car out jogged,
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squares it perfectly square, grips the corner of it and goes,
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whenever you're ready, say stop.
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And he just rippled the corner with his index finger as all the cars fluttered
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by. And that person said, stop.
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And then he finished it. He goes, got the card, rippled the rest of the pack,
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gave it to him and said, shuffle the deck.
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And I just looked at Joe and I went, Joe.
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And you just looked back at me and gave me this nod like, yeah,
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I just forced that. and i went joe and you went yeah and i went joe and then you went.
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And i was like and then you did the effect which was amazing and i just went
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did you for real like i go and he goes yeah and i was like what's up with that
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and he was like it's just estimation it's my thing i estimate things it seems to work,
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where the fuck did that come from joe where did this whole
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notion of estimation and i'm and i'm gonna preface this
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once more because even at the thing you go so we do the trick all
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you do is just cut 26 cards i'm like joe joe how
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do you cut 26 cards without thinking about it and don't say what you told everyone
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at the lecture which is yeah just do it no joe explain i i understand the i
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know what you were talking about but this is nothing to do with me there's a
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uh this is an Ed Marlow thing from it.
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Fingertip Miracle. Oh, it's not this.
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No, it's not that. This is me. Fingertip Controlled Miracles? This is me.
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That's it. Fingertip Miracles, yeah, whatever it's called. It's a revolutionary card technique.
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Joe decided he could do the thing that no one thought was possible when Marlow printed that crap.
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Just stop at that point every time. You can do it. Well, I got given those little
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booklets quite early, so I didn't really...
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Think it wasn't it wasn't i didn't really i was quite young so i didn't really think it was,
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supposed to be hard yeah i mean so i'm doing it for
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ages but you can pinch 26 uh cards
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it's in if you're from the middle so i would have shown you a 26 card in different
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way i like to annoy magicians with this some when i was younger i'm much nicer
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now i am would be but i i remember i remember learning this and painfully practicing that uh just so i could,
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do the peak without the breaks.
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Because I feel like the sort of feeling of the peak, I wouldn't have to peak it.
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If I can cut 26 cards, it's very easy for me to just chop 26 cards so the cards
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in the middle and I can walk completely away and there's no breaks and they
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can shoot them in. That's perfect to me.
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I'm curious, how does a young card man find fingertip controlled miracles in the UK?
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Well, I had a friend called Stan, and he's dead now.
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But he was like an 18-year-old, 80-year-old. You know what I mean? He was awesome.
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I remember, because I'm from Stoke-on-Trent, and there's a magic called Stoke-on-Trent.
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I used to go, I'm not 17, 18, or something.
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And I didn't know anyone into magic.
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And uh i went along this old guy would sit there
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and watch me do card tricks all day like because i i'd just
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do them i'd just hammer them all out and uh i'd go
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up and see him and we'd have little card sessions and then
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uh some of his friends would come around to do some card sessions and
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he got moved to an old book so because he lived in like the roughest area of
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stoke man he's like in between like drug addicts it was like i remember picking
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him up for a blackpool convention because me and my wife picked him up and took
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him to the blackboard convention because this taxi driver wouldn't drop him
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outside the hotel one time so.
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But i said yeah come come with us so i dropped to the hotel but he'd do the
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whole blackpool you know he loved that and then uh you know um when i picked
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him up from the house it was,
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it you'd say well we best not take the suitcases too much because you know in
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case people think we're out we'll best be quick you know keep people think i've
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gone all weekend yeah it wasn't so when he got moved to the it's like home it
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was it was nice man so i used to go visit him up there as well,
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and uh he used to give me um marlowe stuff to borrow and to keep and all sorts of stuff so.
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He gave me the first sort of dvds and that but all
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the marlowe stuff i've got in my bookshelf still from stan he
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just let me have it like when i was like a kid didn't have any money
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how great is that it's so cool to find a
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good mentor like i'm flashing
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back to john rockerbomber he was my guy
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oh that's awesome yeah you
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know when i was telling my friends in our cohort that
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you were being a part of this i was very curious like what were sort of the
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key books and and perhaps other bits of material
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that you read that that you feel shaped your style
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of magic now like was there maybe a top five or
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or less that you could probably say like it really
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changed your approach that so so
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when i started uh magic i'm i'm not super old but yeah compared to the youngsters
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i'm old i'm 38 now yeah it's getting on it's over it's over for me but not for
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the listeners of this podcast it's the way it is but when i was like.
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12 or something 12 13 maybe maybe i was 11.
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I went to a bookshop in stoke and i wanted to
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learn card tricks because i i'd seen the film
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the sting with paul newman and i'm pretty
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sure it's like i've heard michael vincent saying this story but
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it's talking about the same maybe maybe maybe it's like a like
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a what's the
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word sort of like a common thing with magicians but
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him cutting the ace to the top i was just like i've got to learn this
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so i went to the part of the library that's games and cards and the only two
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books three books sorry they had was scarnion card tricks which is amazing you
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should read that because everything's easy and you basically stole it all and
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the stuff that you like and put in that's really good you'd see there's loads
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of loads of cool stuff in there.
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And i got expert card technique and expert
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at the card table and they were my first three books right
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so so i got expert at
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the card table and i was like all right
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this card stuff's real pretty hard isn't it you know what i mean and then i
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went to expert cards because i thought it's even harder and but i chipped my
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way through that over like years until i was like 16 17 and then i could do
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the stuff in those books i didn't even realize there was like i didn't really
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think to look i I didn't realize there was like an internet thing going on.
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Like I didn't realize like there's magic conventions until I was like 22 or something.
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How old are you now? When was this? Like year 2005?
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Yeah. I'm 38. All right.
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Yeah. It was, it was there. It's just, I didn't, there was DVDs and stuff,
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but it wasn't until Stan just like opened this cupboard and there was a bunch
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of DVDs. I was like, there's videos of this.
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But those, those three books are the main ones. And then I'd throw in like,
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there there was a book we gave me called the card east rose
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duck yeah it's boring to read
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some amazing stuff there is true
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story um and uh i don't know you know i'm curious i don't know i can't give
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you a fourth i can't give you a fourth i don't know i'm curious i think with
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the list i'm half curious that it seems like you had a mixture of being influenced
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not only by books but by people.
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And my question to you now is, Stan, obviously an influence in shaping the way
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you think about magic. Was there any other folks other than Stan,
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whether it be through books or interactions?
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There's lots of them. But the main inspiration for this was my uncle Dave showed
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me a video of Chank and Asta performing when I was a kid.
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And it messed me up. I was like, this is just, forget Paul Newman.
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And I'm like, this is the best thing ever. I'm like, what is this?
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That that's that's our big input on the style because
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when i didn't know anything i'd just then take cosmo how would
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this even be possible and i and i think it's that
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perfect that perfect illusion it's
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like it's almost too far it's uh that
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really resonates with me man if anyone does anything like that
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to me and i i just can't believe it
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i love i love watching it like i remember the first time i watched um danny
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doughty's in the session and i i wanted to go around twice because I was so
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impressed that I thought he was brilliant because not just the effects because the effects like.
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I didn't really care the fast and you don't know what's going on but it was
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how much he was enjoying everything and how fair the illusion was that he created
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with his own style it was good it was like a mixture of Leonard Green and Wendell
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Tamari's what was this like sort of cool funny persona I thought it was really cool,
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i love seeing i love seeing people like that so that that sort
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of style resonates and definitely
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chan canasta for me lennox green
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massive because he was
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the first videotapes i ever had so like stan gave
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me that sang me too he gave me steve forte gambling protection series
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i got a bit older and the uh lennox green
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classic green videos so good it was
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it was they were they were well good man so like that sort
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of like influenced me as a teenager and then
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and then older was danny i saw danny ortiz just he
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he like sort of reignited sort of love of going to those he he kind of started
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the love of going to see the magic conventions really because he set the bar
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for me that was brilliant and then later on in my career career if you want
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to call it you know performing magic,
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The biggest inspiration was me and Steve Forte in person at like 26 or something.
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And it was just, where did you see him? That's a hard guy to see.
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I'd done magic live. And then, um, he was on at the same time.
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And my, my, my friend was like, yeah, do you want to do magic live?
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Cause Steve Forte and Bill Malone are doing a talk. Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm, i will go and do it for free now
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yeah i'm bill malone i forgot about
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bill malone another example like danny d'ortiz the most comfortable in his own
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unique way but i mean it's just less it's just a pleasure to watch but the steve
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forte and bill malone were doing a talk and i was like yes brilliant get that
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i get get the times and everything my i'm on at the exact same time.
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I couldn't go and watch it and then uh
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i got introduced to bill malone who was
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instantly hilarious but he won't remember me
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i was i only met
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him here and uh he was
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very kind and he said would you like to meet steve forte and i
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said no i was i'm just joking i'm coming i'm coming so
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we went to the um it was some bar
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and um i i get
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nervous performing to magicians you wouldn't believe it really if you look at me but
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i i hate him i'd make us do a card you come on god
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this is this is guilty i'm guilty of that myself yeah i get give me give me
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like a hundred layman i'm like ah yes it's fine yeah give me a few magicians
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man it's not the pressure on so i walked into this bar with my friend and the
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magicians in there were,
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there was Steve Porte walked off, then Bill Malone,
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Bill Kalouf, Azzy Wind,
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Doutor Gordio, Jason England.
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Charlie Fry, Bill Malone, Eric Meade,
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If I'm forgetting anyone, it's basically if a bomb had hit Paul Wilson,
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if a bomb had hit the place, like Card Magic would be in a bit of a state for
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a few years and probably someone where he watched those Leonard Green tapes or something.
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But the, but, so I was like, oh God, I really don't want to show anyone anything.
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This is terrible. It's terrible.
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And I showed, I think it's who Bill Kalush at this, because I think Michael
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was saying shows Bill Kalush,
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this shuffle, because i do do the shuffle when i
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was younger which i could hit all the time and uh
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i've been practicing a bit every weekend just in case one
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of these magicians had asked me to show it so i showed it because oh yeah brilliant
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i'll go and get someone to watch that and he walks over into the corner grabs
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steve forte and brings him over and i've got steve forte in front of me with
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with like all these guys i don't know who i know who they are but they know
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they don't know me and i'm It's like, oh, God.
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He's like, yeah, show him. I'm like, oh, fantastic. So I've never met this guy before.
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I'm about to be honest. I look over at Michael, and he's just laughing at me,
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like, soullessly. He's like, okay, isn't it?
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And I'm just like, okay.
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And this is what I mean. Pressure on, boys. You want the pressure on.
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Because somehow there is something watching you.
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Because it's perfect, right? And...
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I'm such a, I, I, I, usually I'd be not half thinking, but I was like, screw this.
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I'm, I'm here. I'm like, yeah, that's fine. And start trying to talk to,
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try to talk to the guy next to me, just handed it to, handed it to him.
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And it was, it was, it was all, it was all correct. It was like a fallow shuffle
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that you do in your hands.
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It was a super hard move because you have to like riffle the cards together, together.
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But when I hit it, I was just like, yeah, luckiest guy in the world.
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I'm not going to show him anything ever, ever right now. I'm just, I just walk off.
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But that's the only time. To be clear, it's an in-the-hands,
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perfect ferro shuffle, correct? Is that the technique? Yeah.
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So I used to use it for ripple stacking. And then if you practice it for solid
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45 minutes, you start hitting 7 out of 10 or something.
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That's the record. It's not like 26-26 perfect every time, every single time.
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But yeah, for me, it's the most certain thing ever for the tricks that you need it for.
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And again, it comes from that. watching chen canasta is what
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would look like nothing that looks like literally nothing if
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you're um if you're standing with someone doing it but um
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but as a triumph story i have to top that
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with a little horrible story one one
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where i fail whereas i can't i can't have a winner's story be the only one gonna
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make sure absolutely yeah i mean we learn more from our failures than anything
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right no i didn't learn anything from this situation what inspired you to work
19:08
on that technique it's such a like challenging thing to want to do it was what's his name it was,
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c40 tapes is a move where they just stacked the top four cards and i just kept
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doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it i think it was a bit more like um.
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Like christian christian didn't do with the antifa he just sits and
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he's like oh half of them are going oh three quarters are
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going oh he just then it starts becoming just how
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you shuffle the cards and then it's pretty simple in
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the end but yeah but it was definitely those four-way
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tapes because it just i wanted to learn the mood quick you know what i'm curious
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about joe like you've you've had the pleasure of sitting at the table like i
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mean it's when you're sitting at the table with the so many names like you mentioned
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like you know you've had the pleasure of sitting up as a people like Tamarees
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and 40 and a whole bunch of others. Oh, there you go. That's my failure story.
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One Tamarees. There you go. This is the cringe. This is cringe.
20:02
I'm sorry. I just bought it into your question now. Go ahead.
20:06
I was just walking in the garden park.
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I was at a magic convention the first time I ever met one Tamarees.
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And uh will houston i think he was sat by me he loved this he absolutely loved
20:20
it man he's like a and someone said go and see joe or something for some reason right so he comes over,
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and i'm sitting with will houston talking it's like six people
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and then he walks over at like nine o'clock
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at night or whatever it is or it might have been in the day wherever it
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was he had like his fun his fanfare with
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him mate he sits opposite to me he's gonna
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use hello would you show me the tricks i'm like oh no
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this is worst case scenario mate i'm i'm i'm
20:48
nervous performing to nick over here mate with card jigs
20:51
like like you know i've got to
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believe when tamari sat in here and there's like a hundred fanboys around
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around the table everyone closed in i'm like oh no
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so i get in these it's just
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the worst mate isn't it it's like is the word is is it
21:06
how how can this be worse i don't know
21:08
that's pretty the worst i'd rather
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fight someone mate i would genuinely i'd rather
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like get in the cage if they provide that running from the grave to join that
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crowd that's about the only way so i'll go i'll start it here take the cards
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shuffle them up look at a card right because i'm you want to try and fool tammy and i've.
21:32
I've usually got the sixth sense for this thing this is my thing right
21:35
just whatever right it's going to work here
21:38
i've gone right yes nine of clubs you are
21:41
doing my friend you are done i am going
21:44
to look like the master in front of these people nine
21:47
of clubs perfect take these things shuffling
21:51
them i think i'm mocking wilke houston or something i'd really think
21:54
you know getting cocky i've in these shuffles i've
21:57
called nine nine nine nine to the top
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i'm like they didn't see that look at this this is
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this i i am i am the bollocks here chop chop
22:05
chop bam bam bam bam four of all that theatrical
22:09
i've gone full on david copperfield in the middle of things like
22:12
yeah it's just it's gone on i'm just like ready and then
22:15
like name your card and i
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go to turn over the nine club the six of clubs and
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i'm just like just drop it just have
22:23
just the silence within that with within
22:27
that magic convention that that's that's the sort of
22:30
stuff that i think will houston lived for i'm going
22:32
to be honest he he he loved it man but yeah nice yeah
22:36
i i died inside but i was like oh wow let's move on let's move on one time i
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said thank you thank you very much and it walked off and i was like oh i devastated
22:45
but you know the man he is very very nice man i walked up I walked up to the
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lift, grabbed me, and he's just like.
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Yeah, show me how you cut the four nines out of the back here.
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And I'm like, oh, man, sound. You know.
23:04
With the pleasure of all the people you've had sitting at the table,
23:06
I'm curious, is there anyone that you kind of wish you had an opportunity to sit at the table with?
23:12
Living or dead? Let's really expand it. Living or dead?
23:16
I'd like to sit. I'd like to sit with Vernon.
23:20
That'd be the one. I'd like to I'd like to start with David but that's going
23:23
to be everyone's on the tournament so,
23:26
i think if i could have met two two i'm gonna go charles jordan bob homer,
23:33
nice deep cuts deep cuts i
23:37
think that'd be that'd be it and then um living i've
23:41
never got to see i don't know i have i've seen live but
23:46
sit down i'd like to i don't
23:49
know i'm starting to rev all them a lot i'm not actually familiar
23:52
jerry saturday jerry saturday oh saturdays yeah
23:55
saturday you're blowing my mind with these desirable sits fucking charles jordan
24:02
one of the true geniuses of card magic unheralded for his contributions and
24:08
bob hummer the craziest bastard ever do a magic trick with a deck of cards his
24:13
methods were off the chain
24:15
yeah it's not you ever spend time with Jerry at all you ever run into him over there,
24:19
I managed to he sold me I subscribed to his magazine I haven't I haven't got
24:24
it for a while because I went moved out does anybody get that anymore,
24:31
I'm not sure, mate. He's got some really good stuff.
24:36
Yeah, he's a top crowd, man. I saw him live in Nottingham. He's doing a slight
24:40
abandon as part of his act. He's pretty good, mate.
24:45
Jerry's an innovator. He's a guy that actually levels up the magic. He does unique things.
24:52
You could throw that Card Zones book in there. That is a really good book. Card Zones?
24:59
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Card Zones. yeah that
25:02
yeah he's he's really good i uh you can
25:05
see the boy walton sort of influence here and how
25:08
he does it i met him once where walton
25:11
that was oh and uh he was
25:14
he see this is the same thing i
25:17
said about steve porting these guys are so talented they're
25:21
so so nice they don't like we there should not be any ego in magic when like
25:27
you just walk up to roy walton and he's just shows you something behind no they
25:31
didn't he was working behind the desk at the that Tom Shepard's shop and I'd had a gig in Scotland and.
25:39
And i went in and i was like only younger i was
25:41
like are you are you are you were watching and it's
25:44
like yeah yeah yeah and i sat sat to him talked to him
25:47
for like five minutes and he showed me some stuff with cars
25:50
i was like this is the best thing ever i was
25:52
just okay absolutely jen showed me cause went off
25:56
i thought it was amazing i'd uh so i'll
25:59
throw him into the card session as well that'd be that'd be sick hey charles
26:02
jordan roy walton what about justin
26:05
hickham like uh i've sat with justin loads
26:08
of time he's he's a
26:11
good guy mate but yeah he's not making it to the table if
26:13
i can choose anyone i'll go next week i know you guys had hung i was looking
26:19
through the conjuring archives to see your early early published work yeah i
26:24
know jerry's published some of his stuff so i thought maybe you guys had crossed
26:28
paths that way he was in the vernon talk child in,
26:32
genie magazine was it genie yeah he was yeah justin when he was young he met
26:36
ed marlon he used a session with him as well yeah he's got some great ideas
26:41
just looks a lot younger than he is that's what i reckon but he's uh no he's
26:45
he's still he's doing a new magazine as well great check that out,
26:50
he's a great guy man yeah so you mentioned earlier that you'd probably prefer
26:55
to have a fight than perform for some people and i'm.
26:59
There might be something that folks don't actually know
27:02
about you now i don't believe that you were well versed in
27:05
this when we first met but during the time you have
27:08
developed this amazing skill set where you actually are well versed in both
27:13
mma and judo and actually train quite a bit in the fighting arts if you will
27:20
firstly yeah first question how this happens secondly does it influenced your magic? The.
27:29
It's jiu-jitsu brazilian jiu-jitsu and mma i do judo man you'll toss me around but yeah,
27:34
but the um yeah i love i love it
27:37
mate i got into it like just dove into
27:40
it so i've done i did a little bit like years ago
27:43
like as a kid and then after the lock
27:45
it during the lockdowns just as
27:49
they come out i used to do crossfit training so
27:51
i was like i did it for like a decade or something it's like i
27:54
used to do it religiously and the lockdown destroyed me
27:57
i do all that exercise in my mind you know what i mean it's like i'm sure
28:00
you guys do right you can go up and run you just feel bad yeah but
28:04
the that so having that taken away
28:07
from me during lockdown that drove me mental so i just
28:10
um the crossfit that i'd gone to
28:12
when i come out of lockdown was just like kind
28:15
of gone they would you know it just wasn't the same it was not not good
28:19
so i uh i knew a guy i saw i
28:22
knew a guy who was into car magic it's crazy enough he's um
28:25
absolutely great at car magic he was a kid called charlie and uh uh i think
28:31
he's everyone on instagram i don't know if he's still on instagram charlie adorian
28:33
i'm not on instagram but that's his name if you ever find him he's like a jujitsu
28:37
champion mate but he's slight of hand skill with me he does the best class he
28:41
does as good a class as justin they're the two best i've ever seen so like.
28:46
The this kid i worked he got me
28:48
into jujitsu and um i didn't look back really
28:51
man i just went every day and then
28:54
and after a while after
28:58
the lockdown amy me we had a child called arthur
29:01
and uh i just didn't want to travel anymore yeah so um after the job came up
29:07
to work with my friend at the uh jiu-jitsu gym me and me and sean i just worked
29:12
there for like three years did a few gigs that's about it and i just had a yeah
29:16
it was a great time just to get them spend loads of time and my son,
29:20
do jiu-jitsu every day get the hell beating out of me and yeah that's what I
29:24
do but as far as the influence in my dick I think.
29:30
I don't know how much can be influenced now i've done magic for
29:32
too long so i can by that point because the magic's set
29:35
in but you can see similarities with with
29:39
the jiu-jitsu and the slight finding i did enjoy
29:42
i think that's why i enjoyed it so much you can
29:45
trick people you know and uh there's loads of them
29:48
and the more you can do it the better it is
29:51
and it's kind of like magic you know the more slides you know the
29:54
more different positions you put them in the more questions you can ask what
29:57
stuff you can do are you scared of busting a
30:00
finger or like dislocating i have it's
30:04
destroyed yeah look at this oh my god joe
30:07
come on what the hell yeah it's worth
30:10
it my ears my ears are okay this one's a bit thick but
30:13
i got it all cut open so it's close but like i think
30:16
i'm i think i've fared all right man got like a few scars but
30:19
i'm all right it's worth it mate you need
30:22
your pinky joe like what are you doing you know you don't
30:25
you're you're still in move line but you don't need any of it you don't need
30:29
any of it tell them joe you don't need that crap moves no you don't use the
30:34
use the force you do i don't want to say that because that's like you do need
30:39
so you do need them right but they don't have to look like uh steam 48 i mean like.
30:46
They need to just be, for me anyway it's good to do them that way I'm not saying
30:52
don't do them that way but the sort of,
30:57
the body language and the sort of
31:00
way you are way more important than the moves
31:04
i think it's the moment you do it that's what you see when
31:07
watching steve forte in person it's like the hands are amazing but it's the
31:11
timing that gets you um i think i think yeah you don't need that many moves
31:16
mate let's talk about some of your modern mindsets with magic i know you were
31:20
here last august in las vegas at magic live and you were you had the new book out right yeah and,
31:28
Would you say your most modern techniques are in this publication?
31:37
I tried to put with this book. I wrote it. It was too long.
31:45
So I split it into three. And what I did with the first one was I took the first
31:50
part what I consider the foundations of the trick that can't be explained.
31:55
So trying to explain that and there is a way that was what's difficult about
32:03
it because over the years I created the moves like I was explaining to make them look just real,
32:10
but there aren't that many of them but to explain everything at once with this
32:16
improvisational style was so long and complicated that it has to be breaking
32:19
into three so the stuff you're learning in the first half of that book I think,
32:25
that for me is an amazing way to perform card tricks because you.
32:30
And what's through the book is it's kind of improvisation and
32:33
then the second half you're going to get the so it
32:36
gives you the tools first and you're going to get effects that you can
32:39
actually do from start to finish with like a uh like i
32:41
see a standard so not not standard trick but like a trick
32:44
with a method that's not that's just linear you're going
32:47
to have those that you can stick anywhere so i think with my
32:51
style of doing it i try to like have
32:54
a few of those interlaced one at the start one of the middle one at the
32:56
end and the rest of it can be whatever they ask for to
33:00
a point that makes sense and that's
33:03
what's trying to explain this book and stuff and it's a
33:06
it's a good book i think i've got but i've got a lot of positive feedback
33:09
from the magic line yeah and i
33:12
think one of the things when it comes to your style is that there is
33:15
this huge level of jazz and and opportunity that you
33:18
look for just to preface this when we first met some years ago we would be sitting
33:23
at a table and you'd be uh and almost unbeknownst to the rest of us like you
33:28
would do okay last one fellas we have to go to bed and then everyone would have
33:32
the decks out and then there'd be a card chosen and then be like all right now
33:36
everyone open up your packets.
33:37
And everyone spread your decks and everyone would have the same card face
33:41
up in their decks like and unbeknownst to us you would just cheekily
33:44
borrow a deck or can i borrow yours and then you would do one trick
33:47
and then set up and then put it away and leave it there and you would like set up the whole
33:50
room and it's crazy when you're sitting at a table where we
33:54
were almost unaware that you were just like you've you've actually stacked it
33:57
and like you've done so many cheeky things and planted so many seeds
34:00
amongst it i've not seen anyone else
34:03
be so diabolical with their
34:07
card magic thank you thank you i'll take i'll take the word diabolical that's
34:11
that's a good one to link to a magician um that's kind of you man but it i like
34:18
i just love being fools mate i love it so like i'll try and think and i think
34:23
when i think about something just like
34:25
would it fool me i don't know i i,
34:29
If I come up with something and it won't fool me, I'm like, ah,
34:33
it can be good. It can be not be good.
34:36
I love it. I'm like the opposite to most magicians when they get a bit silent
34:41
and naughty when they get fooled.
34:43
I'm just like, mate, don't tell me. That's amazing.
34:46
I love it when I find something like that.
34:52
It seems though you're almost creating the type of magic you want to see.
34:57
Yeah that's well yeah kind of what me and i've got like a small circle of friends
35:02
who look on that card tricks man i like doing card tricks for them they're hard
35:06
to fool yeah it's good you know trying for my time for my wife she hates card
35:11
tricks now if you ever see her do some card tricks for her um but the what.
35:17
What comes first yeah but i'm
35:20
curious what comes first is it is it the the idea
35:23
of the routine or is it sort of the method that influences
35:26
the routine it'd be
35:29
the idea yeah be what you want to do and you
35:32
work out how to do it but the the the
35:35
real like the real moments for me are tricks that
35:38
can't be repeated again that's what you want so it's like i don't really get
35:41
the routines the routines but you want you want to be in there for me anyway
35:45
i want to be what do i know i'm some guy with this jiu-jitsu sits in the house
35:49
don't take take what i say with a pinch of salt you know what i mean i did it
35:53
for my job for a long time and i loved it and um the the real,
35:58
the real part where you're the actual magician and you're doing it for real like
36:01
so the most i can create that is during
36:04
those improvisational moments and the
36:07
best the things that i describe i'm gonna walk out and i do that yeah i
36:10
mean let's start while we do that and the
36:13
things that you explain i can't remember like people often
36:17
explain things to me and i can't and they'll get
36:19
like hyped up over over the years or they'll be real in the memory or i'll be
36:24
real in my memory but the or the only things they ever talk about are the things
36:29
that happen it's real yeah like so like i don't really like the sort of i'll
36:35
start with i'll do the method bump but i call it kind of paint by numbers magic.
36:39
I mean, I'm not, I'm not slagging it all off. I think it's all great.
36:43
It's just taste, isn't it?
36:45
But when I can watch one to the other to the other, I kind of like.
36:48
I want to be, I want the editing cut on me.
36:53
Do you know what I mean? It never gets, it never really gets cut.
36:55
You know, so, so, so that's why I like reading all those old books,
36:59
man, because there's so many things that would just pull the hell out of me
37:03
in there. And I like, I like imagining it when I read it.
37:06
But, changing things. I think you can find tricks that suit you as well.
37:10
You must have a few where you just do a trick and it's like,
37:15
I love it, but I just can't do it.
37:17
And that's where i think the style comes from i can't do a lot of these card
37:20
tricks so i'll just do my own like sort of style being it um that's how i find
37:25
it fun but there's a few you you have like that you know i'm curious because
37:29
it seems like a lot of the stuff that you,
37:32
come to the realization with it's almost like you're learning it in real time
37:35
like as you're performing it like there was something that would come to you
37:37
you're like be cool if this could happen now do you do you find that you have
37:42
these sort of experiences or these learning moments performing for lay audiences
37:47
or performing for magicians?
37:49
When does it affect you? Lay audiences.
37:53
Magicians are more nervous. You can do anything.
37:58
It's the only thing I perform to them. I don't think I'll do a beginning.
38:02
For my card set, I used to do it. I'd have a beginning, middle,
38:05
and the end. The rest of it go.
38:08
Laymen, this is for me. They're the people that talk about me.
38:12
That's how I do my job. I didn't have a big website I just got word of mouth
38:16
you know what I mean like that's how I've traveled all over the world performing through actual people,
38:21
And so I think that I do it more for layman magicians. I just kind of like the magician sometimes.
38:28
You know, it's, it's really interesting because like, like you said,
38:30
no big website, no business cards that you hang about.
38:34
No, not, not a whole bunch of agencies and whatever else, you know what I mean?
38:38
Like in some effect, like you, you know, it was remarkable because I was before
38:43
the show saying like, it's remarkable how elusive yet so successful you are.
38:47
And you were like, I didn't realize I was elusive.
38:49
I'm just doing, I'm just being co.
38:52
My question to you is like, was it intentional to be so elusive or just be so
38:57
set in your own way of like not having, not living out loud?
39:03
Yeah. I'm not very, I'm not a
39:04
very out loud person. I try to muster up the courage to talk to you boys.
39:09
I mean, I'm only joking, but the, yeah, I don't know, man.
39:13
It's not, there's nothing elusive. I don't think I just, I did,
39:16
I did start out with the business cards and the website, like everyone,
39:19
everyone did, but I didn't,
39:22
enjoy doing the sort of wedding walk around stuff that much but i did it because
39:28
i had a job and it was earning me money so and it's not a real job is it you
39:33
know compared to what i did first
39:35
i was used to be a stonemason working on building sites you know it's like.
39:40
Um it's nothing about that so i was like
39:43
yeah i'll keep doing this and then
39:45
i got i was i got hired by a guy
39:49
who's like a banker in london so i can um and from that his mate started hiring
39:55
me without going on my website and i don't know if i didn't it might have been
40:01
i didn't even pay for the domain mate that's how much business sense i had i
40:04
didn't i might be i just didn't pay for the thing anymore like.
40:08
And i was like i was just doing my gigs i was just like when i had no mobile
40:12
phone in my business card and then then i went to the gigs i didn't have any
40:16
business cards just that isn't that isn't me out of planning it because it just
40:20
happens i didn't have any business cards i was turning up to this thing i used
40:24
to turn up with a pack of cards to do the show like,
40:26
and uh yeah i didn't have a
40:29
business card so then i'd turn up with no business cards then i'd make then
40:31
i had little black ones printed because these guys were like but by the way
40:36
each time i went to one of these guys parties as well someone was hiring me
40:39
so i was doing an all right job and it's hard to say i was living for a long
40:44
time and then i got hired i started getting hired by people who were a bit even
40:48
richer than them you could say i got to go to america and i got,
40:52
to go to all over the place um all over europe middle east and um and it was
40:59
through word of mouth and and then i remember i used to have black well of course
41:03
you remember i'm telling you they I have black business cards and you have to, excuse me,
41:07
it's bloody late here. I feel like I'm going to sleep on you.
41:10
Um, we're at quarter to two right now.
41:13
I am, and I'm an old man, but the, I used to give out like a black,
41:17
I used to give out like a black business card when they asked me for a business card.
41:21
And it always, that always be like, how is this?
41:23
Like looking at it, like it's going to be a magic trick. It was just a black
41:25
business card, but they ended up talking to the guy that hired me,
41:28
get my number anyway. So like.
41:30
They were quite small as well, the place I was doing. It's like,
41:33
I, you know, I've had some brilliant gigs, but I've also had some terrible gigs.
41:38
I'm sure the same is for you, mate. So I've done, I've done them all.
41:41
I'm not going to sit here and go, yeah, so I just had some rich people take
41:44
me, take me to America. No, I didn't.
41:47
No, I've been, I've been everywhere, mate. What's the worst gig you've ever done?
41:52
The worst gig is, was more so like an aftermath. You know, for me,
41:56
like the worst thing that could possibly happen is like.
41:59
Yeah. Well, what I meant was like, I'd finished the gig. I was walking back
42:02
to my car and there was a, there was like someone having a cardiac arrest in the parking lot.
42:07
And I was like having to give this guy CPR, trying to save his life.
42:10
Like it was, yeah. Like that was, so you made, you made this terrible gig,
42:15
a hero story about yourself. Oh, if I saved his life.
42:19
Oh, you had to drop that on me. You couldn't tell me that before.
42:23
For trying to save another citizen's life but that
42:29
was that was the worst no i didn't say
42:32
come and tell a harrowing story i wanted to be
42:35
a funny one you know i mean i'm gonna take over from you jeez
42:38
thanks for that that's cheating me right yeah i mean like you you you have your
42:45
you have your bad gigs you know some of them i mean like i did one not too long
42:48
ago where at this corporate event that i was doing that it came out at this
42:54
christmas event there was an affair.
42:58
Between two parties at this at this thing and you know and and it all unfolded
43:04
at the party and there was violence and there was all manner of unpleasantry
43:08
you know what i mean and it was like,
43:10
i was annoyingly like i was getting paid in cash for the night and i was just
43:14
waiting or hating to get paid. I was like, I got kicks now.
43:18
You're a little shit like that. Yeah. But the CEO was just like, just wait a second.
43:22
I'll be right back. I got your money. And I was waiting. But he was just putting
43:25
out fires because he was trying to save his company from being burnt to the
43:28
ground by this guy who was absolutely livid by his wife's awful behavior. And-
43:35
so first wedding i ever did the uh brandon groom got divorced in three weeks
43:40
you can't that's a good start that's a good start i'll put on my website.
43:45
Yeah well i'd say one of the worst mate i got sent when
43:49
i had no money i was like i was you know i thought charging
43:52
100 pounds an hour was a lot well i was going to be a millionaire and then i
43:55
realized you had to pay taxes and bills and i got
43:58
no money so i one of them
44:00
came in it was 750 pounds i was like
44:03
oh my god this is more money than it's in my entire bank
44:06
account i'm loving this this is going to be this is going to be the poshest this
44:09
is going to be the poshest place i've ever been 750 pounds you're
44:12
joking so i drove my crappy little car to the roughest area that chef reeled
44:18
me i was like that's my car gone even though it's rubbish i got out i was like
44:24
my suit's in the back i'm like i'm not gonna put a suit on i was walking and
44:28
there was two women that stood,
44:30
sorry, there was one woman stood there in front of a happy birthday balloons,
44:35
in lingerie just sat there i was like well it's my birthday.
44:43
And she's there another one walks out i'm like
44:46
ladies i'm not very comfortable with this let's
44:48
go let's go let's go on there she's uh
44:52
she's laughing at me she comes up she says no i um it's my birthday
44:55
yeah you're a magician i am like i own an escort agency
44:58
and um i was like right okay
45:02
yeah you're in there and i'm
45:06
walking in and there's a poor muslin couple setting
45:09
up a shisha lounge right and the the
45:14
place suddenly was full of 300 escorts
45:17
and they're pretty roided up
45:21
unit boyfriends and you
45:24
think your your place was fighting by 11 o'clock in
45:27
my place that shisha lounge there was table split
45:30
and everything mate it was a god that was a
45:33
that was one of the worst that was one of the worst yeah i'm glad i
45:36
didn't wear my suit for that i felt sorry for the poor future lounge people
45:38
they look sad for life yeah that
45:43
was a good one i did a rave once in manchester oh
45:46
that was a rave yeah i promise you i
45:49
did i did this trick i was younger but i did this i just went take a card guy
45:54
picks the card i remember just going what's your name mate he goes dave or whatever
45:58
and he was just like it's at your car just holding it he just freaked out like
46:02
he'd seen David Blaine or something man I didn't even touch it.
46:07
No one, apart from Dave, no one really paid attention to me there,
46:10
but lots of rubbish gigs as well as the good ones that I get to go to the nice countries for.
46:16
Yeah. And then you get your good ones. I mean, I've, I've done gigs where the
46:20
birthday girl was really unhappy about a particular guest there and she grabbed
46:24
the knife out of the birthday cake and tried to attack her.
46:26
You know, like it was insane. Like just, yeah.
46:29
Like these things, these things happen in, in, in show when you've been around
46:34
as long as we have, you know what I mean?
46:37
I'm i'm a much older man than than joe respectfully
46:40
but you know you're gonna see things you're gonna experience the
46:43
kids and there's certain ways there's things to
46:46
learn from them and things to take away you know and you know it's
46:49
like when safety is a factor you
46:52
should you should probably run and and you know
46:55
have that in your claws and nick
46:58
i'm uh my headphones are running out can you still hear me yes
47:02
okay okay tell me if you can i'm sure the
47:04
computer will pick it up anyway no no i got you i charged
47:08
them fully but we've been so we've been having a nice conversation we have been
47:12
yeah yeah so yeah so what i'm curious like it's it's remarkable how kind of
47:17
elusive you've been but you still had this amazing ability to maintain these
47:21
very high level relationships that obviously resulted in you having this amazing
47:25
career and very successful,
47:27
in between all that what was the motivation to make you want to share and start
47:32
writing your own material like what is it did you was it just that you wanted
47:36
to share what you learned or was it just the capacity to like you know a lot
47:41
of people have different motivations to do that,
47:43
i suppose i just enjoyed the i went to a few magic conventions
47:46
and enjoyed it and thought it'd be cool to put some of my stuff out and i i
47:51
did it with peter no idea when i started he's a nice guy he's top top gent so
47:56
yeah i just i just thought it'd be fun that's what that's really good with the
48:01
magician community. That's why I started that.
48:05
What was the required question sorry um no it's
48:09
just i mean the motivations for wanting to release your own stuff but it makes
48:12
a lot of sense i tell you just just just for fun to
48:15
meet up meet other people that are into car magic i literally didn't have any
48:18
mates that did 90 club i had what and i made a friend who we ended up doing
48:23
notice magazine together john still mates with john he's one of my good friends
48:27
like uh i've got like three or four friends like you're magicians now like properly,
48:34
what else do you need maybe exactly it's
48:38
remarkable and it should be rather simplistic and what i'm
48:40
what i'm sort of curious about is where it hit the tail end of this this interview is
48:43
that there's so much that you know about magic now and
48:47
there's like certain things you learn along the way and my question
48:50
is that if you if someone were starting from scratch and aspiring to be as good
48:54
as yourself let's just say that hypothetically that like you erased everything
48:58
you know about car magic but you could write yourself a plan on how to get back
49:02
there like what would you do differently what would you read in what order and what would you avoid.
49:09
I'd read scotting on card
49:12
tricks read more mine gardener mathematic magic and mystery learn all that then
49:21
i'd get like i'd get expert card technique again and i'd just learn all that
49:27
and then i wouldn't do anything else going to be the best musician in the world. That's fine.
49:32
Yeah, that's pretty much the truth. But.
49:37
I wouldn't listen to the people that are negative about what you're doing in any way, really.
49:47
Apart from if it's positive, like criticism, you know what I mean?
49:51
Somebody who's actually going, oh, you could do this better.
49:54
One thing that I'll say, I don't want to big myself up at all.
49:57
One thing that I think I am good at in life is I've got a learner's mindset with everything.
50:03
That's why I picked up Jiu-Jitsu, man. and say, okay, I've got everything I
50:08
do, I kind of throw myself into it, you know?
50:10
And I think that's probably the best.
50:13
Just like accept that you're going to be like really crap at magic for like two or three years.
50:18
It's the same as anything. You're bad at anything for two or three years.
50:21
Anyone comes to you and say, oh, yeah, I'm good at this, that,
50:23
and the other. I wouldn't be doing it for two years.
50:26
Like, I don't think many people are like going to do it. So just keep at it.
50:31
So it's especially when you're learning moves. but i'd say when people like
50:35
i said you don't need the moves i think that's a full circle thing i think it's
50:39
like you need the foundations then you need to do every single hard movement
50:43
with the sun like i'm glad i did that i don't use any of those moves like the
50:47
stupidest moves ever but like.
50:50
I'll still do it if someone shows me i want to learn it just because it's like
50:53
there and it's like i believe it makes you better like i do that's why i'm still
50:57
saying the best magician in the world is Steve Forte and he's not even a magician
51:00
but like to be so good at so many of these moves and tough,
51:06
and to have the mind of a magician at the same time he is he is the man but like,
51:12
I think having this sort of learning mindset, everything as you go through it,
51:17
learn all the hard moves and then go back to the easy ones and then realize
51:21
you don't need all the hard moves anyway.
51:24
And that is a thing that I think is in a lot of things because I speak to the
51:30
guy named Sean, he was ADCC medalist, jiu-jitsu, black belt, the world's medalist.
51:38
He's just an amazing jiu-jitsu fighter. top top
51:41
top around and he said the exact same thing
51:44
i said it's like you learn everything when all
51:46
the moves everything but no it's like nothing like um
51:49
i think what so when i say this oh you shouldn't
51:52
do any moves i'm talking nonsense really you should do all of them
51:55
and then eventually you won't because well
52:00
i could take my boots anyway but what do i know just a
52:02
guy no i agree with what you're saying and the way i
52:05
the way i've described it in in conversations past i basically explained that
52:09
like every move you have is like if your brain were a toolbox every time you
52:13
learn a move it's an extra tool that goes in the toolbox right and there are
52:18
so many ways to control a car to the top right and the way i sort of worded
52:22
is that like if yeah if there's a loose screw
52:24
you can use a butter knife to tighten it right.
52:28
But if you were creating it to card magic, it'd be a very clanky looking way of controlling a card.
52:34
But I'm guaranteeing you that there is the most perfect screwdriver made for that job.
52:39
And if you have that perfect screwdriver in your kit to do the job,
52:43
your card magic is going to look perfect as well.
52:46
And so that's the reason why you'd want to build up these moves and build up
52:49
this knowledge base and have what I affectionately call a toolbox of moves,
52:54
you know? No, you're right, yeah.
52:56
I mean, if you just own it, whatever you want. yeah is
52:59
there something is there something that you believe about magic that
53:02
most magicians kind of disagree with maybe the
53:05
entire style maybe the entire style is making it up but i'm not
53:09
making it up but you know what would
53:12
i agree give me an example well we're
53:15
talking about some of the belief systems maybe in which like it's not
53:19
always about like we kind of said earlier it's
53:22
like what's the point of trying to like fool magicians they're
53:25
not going to hire you so who cares what they what they think
53:27
you know before the well first
53:32
of all that that's a little bit you know because like you love magic don't you
53:36
want to show people magic you want everyone to love it so it's like for me it's
53:39
like it's not it you know depends who it is you you know but it's not about
53:44
making them feel bad from showing magic is it that's ridiculous so you want you want them to feel.
53:50
Magic which is the best thing ever so if you
53:53
can do it as many people as possible you should show magicians maybe
53:55
i mean maybe maybe you'll get a smile out i get
53:59
a smile sometimes out of them anyway so that's good but
54:02
the um the i forgot what we're saying is there anything that you believe about
54:10
magic that you find that it pushes it pushes back against i thought one what
54:15
what do you think of uh this is this might not like the answer question but
54:18
the uh the argument about like.
54:22
Fundamentalists when they're when they're arguing about should you be seen as
54:26
a psychic or should you be seen as a uh you know or should it be all displaying
54:32
as psychological this like the other,
54:34
so they're offended by the psychics i'm completely
54:37
team psychic i'm like i i i
54:40
want to see real that's what i want to see like so
54:43
i think you can skirt around it like not
54:46
not because end of the day if i tell you yeah if you believe i'm psychic and
54:52
you believe derren brown's psychologically manipulating you is the difference
54:56
between those two things because he's not yet so it's like i think there's just
55:01
an ethical thing involved with that you know that type of thing but.
55:06
It's show business mate the the the best
55:10
person i've ever seen i think luke jamaic when he's
55:13
when he's being the psychic well like i do
55:16
agree with you i don't i don't want him to go oh i'm speaking to the
55:19
dead dead but luke pushes it just on
55:22
the line where he was just like this is what this guy thinks
55:25
you know you know it's like it's real i'm i'm
55:29
like that is the best for me compared to the sell me an nlp course or whatever
55:34
like the uh the psychic psychic mental is weird but i don't know about you you
55:38
might you might you might talk about it yeah it's interesting but you know the
55:43
thing about like some of the effects they do are very very real and they can
55:45
hit in a really hard place,
55:46
which leads me to my second last question, if I may, which is,
55:50
you see so much magic and you have so much knowledge, right?
55:53
That feeling that you give the audience, right?
55:57
I mean, I've experienced it, obviously, sitting at the table with yourself.
56:00
I'm curious, what's the closest you felt to feeling like magic was well and truly a real thing?
56:07
And what was that experience like? Who was performing for you at the time?
56:12
I've got a couple, but the main one where I really got into magic was a guy
56:17
showed me an effect on a train. You probably read it in the book.
56:21
I mean, maybe you haven't read the end of the book. But I tell the story.
56:25
But I was going to school, a trip.
56:29
We were going to the National History Museum.
56:32
And I got on the plane, the train, plane, got on the train.
56:36
And I was sat on one of those seats where it's like four,
56:40
you know it's a table in this floor it's opposite the scottish man i
56:43
wasn't sitting next to my friends because my friend i got on late my
56:46
friends all sat there and the two's together so i sat there and
56:49
this guy was a shuffle in a pack of cards and he brought
56:53
him out about halfway through the trip he's like shuffling his cards i'm watching
56:56
it i'm just like this is this is sick because it's just like it just looks like
57:00
it's just fluid movement you're shuffling his cards i'm like yeah it's not like
57:04
how my dad shuffles cards you know what i mean so yeah you're sure for them
57:07
anyway like 20 minutes I'm nearly at London and he's like you know,
57:12
name a card I'm like what name a card go on and I said seven of spades he's
57:17
like okay take them this deal down stop somewhere the deal down.
57:22
Sorry man can you hear me yep yep keep going sorry these
57:26
are these are around and deal down sort somewhere
57:29
and i do and i'm and
57:32
make my memory is i'm holding these cards i'm holding
57:35
this card like this and i've shuffled
57:38
them that's my memory i don't know if it's true but like he got up grabbed it
57:43
put it in the box we're at the train station anyway when i've stopped at it
57:46
he's he's he's gone off and just holding this card i've turned it over in seven
57:49
spades and what froze there like i'm like okay it's like it's fooled me more
57:54
than anything ever and i think like that,
57:57
that resonated with me so much like because that was before.
58:02
That was like chunking aster in real life but i don't know who it was some scottish guy,
58:08
wow yeah so i got to see a good yeah yeah i
58:10
got to see him i don't know if he's a good mistress but for me that was the
58:13
bet that was the bollocks mate so i'd like to like know
58:16
that goers but like that well you know i got lucky i don't know but mate it
58:21
was it was perfect so it was that that my best magician experience as a magician
58:26
being lucky enough to meet the best musician ever is sitting on my own for like
58:30
four hours in a casino cafe with steve forte.
58:35
It was just like it was
58:38
ridiculous mate you can't like the that's all
58:41
all you can describe as he can do everything but
58:44
like perfect and he has magic
58:47
tricks mate he's a magician but they get they're gambling theme you can't tell
58:50
whether something's real or fake you're just in a world where you know what's
58:54
going on i thought it was and i was just like i come out of there just buzzing
58:58
i went into my hotel room to my wife and she was just like are you okay you
59:02
can i was like i'm not gonna be okay for a bit, man.
59:06
It was ludicrous how amazingly skillful and how easy it was.
59:14
Like I said to you before the thing, you said to me about meeting some of these
59:18
guys that him doing his arrow shuffle,
59:21
I was sure the arrow shuffle was just awful because I'd met really good people
59:26
do it. I was like, I can see it. I can see it every single time. No point.
59:29
This guy did it for like 15, 20 minutes. He was just doing it and I didn't even realize it was amazing.
59:35
So yeah, that's the most fool I've ever been in person apart from the guy on the train.
59:39
I didn't know anything about the guy on the train. I knew what a magic with
59:43
Steve Fortier he just fooled me over and over again I couldn't see anything
59:48
it was like a deer in the headlights.
59:56
I'd love to get him on the show because again I feel like you two were cut from
1:00:01
the same cloth in the sense that you're so elusive in your own worlds and you're
1:00:06
so specialist about how brilliant you are getting access to you guys is not the easiest thing to do.
1:00:12
I mean, even getting a Steve Forty book is difficult enough, you know?
1:00:15
It's, you know, and you're very much the same. Like, if we were to get your
1:00:18
books, where do we go, Joe? Like, what do we do?
1:00:21
Well, now, it's nodub.co.uk. That's where you should go. Go to nodub.co.uk.
1:00:27
I've got a subscription as well. Go to there. Everyone go. And go and visit me at nodub.co.uk.
1:00:34
Well, we'll put all those links, of course, in this episode on the YouTube,
1:00:38
guys, so you can scope it out for yourselves. But friends, it's been an hour,
1:00:42
Joe, from me. It's so good to see you again.
1:00:44
We will end this episode the way we do all of our interviews by giving you the final word.
1:00:52
Well,
1:00:55
just look at this. There's more music. Let the special effects end.
1:01:01
But is it broken?
1:01:04
No, Joe, this is the bit where you say what you want to say.
1:01:06
Yeah, but it's broken. and it's like going up and down. What is...
1:01:12
What's going up and down? It's like out of sync, man. But anyway,
1:01:17
thank you for having me, mate. It's been brilliant.
1:01:22
It's fine. It's working. Are you there now? I'm here. We're all here.
1:01:27
It went like you spoke, and then it played the music twice. Ah.
1:01:36
This is the difference between where you are and we are in the UK.
1:01:39
So should we do a take two?
1:01:43
Okay okay this time properly with the final word.
1:01:51
Thanks a lot for watching this guys i hope you come and join me at no dub and
1:01:56
yeah i'll see you around magic conventions if any of you see me come in and
1:02:00
say hello i'm always up for seeing some card tricks so come show me anytime
1:02:04
thanks for listening it's time for us to disappear now,
1:02:11
But we'll see you again on the next episode of The Magic Guys.