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Is the ship sinking? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Buco Territory,
0:13
Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm Noah
0:15
Speaker 1: Hyle's joining me as always are my co hosts, Platinum
0:18
Speaker 1: Ky Aka Mark and Josh Harrison. No need to bury
0:21
Speaker 1: the lead here. Things are not going well for the
0:25
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Pirates. After a very underwhelming, disappointing home stand, they
0:30
Speaker 1: go to Cincinnati, and while they avoided a four game sweep,
0:35
Speaker 1: it feels like things pretty much couldn't have gone worse
0:38
Speaker 1: for them in that road trip as far as injuries,
0:41
Speaker 1: as far as key players performances, as far as overall results.
0:45
Speaker 1: It was a disaster. We're gonna talk about that. We're
0:48
Speaker 1: gonna talk about probably their biggest disappointment of that series.
0:52
Speaker 1: His name is Paul Skeins. And then we will wrap
0:55
Speaker 1: it up with Platinum Keys Key of the Week, which
0:58
Speaker 1: we talked about on every Monday show. Happy Trade Deadline Day, guys.
1:03
Speaker 1: So an exciting one, right, so let's get right into it.
1:07
Speaker 1: The Pirates go to Cincinnati. They lose three of four.
1:11
Speaker 1: Two of their first losses were incredibly winnable baseball games,
1:17
Speaker 1: just very dejecting. I would argue Saturday's loss might have
1:22
Speaker 1: been the worst Pirates loss I've seen, I can't tell you,
1:26
Speaker 1: and how long like it, like it literally might be
1:30
Speaker 1: their most dejecting like Pirates loss I've witnessed since Josh
1:33
Speaker 1: was on the team and the games actually mattered, you know,
1:36
Speaker 1: like that's it's been that far back. Mark. We'll start
1:40
Speaker 1: with you just as a fan man, I mean, take
1:42
Speaker 1: us through it. It just what is the most aside
1:46
Speaker 1: from schemes, who will get to what was the most
1:50
Speaker 1: dejecting thing from this weekend for you?
1:52
Speaker 2: The Rhino Hearn injury. Absolutely that rhyano Hearn's such a
1:57
Speaker 2: leader on this team and contribute so so much. To
2:02
Speaker 2: lose one of your best bats, a guy who has
2:05
Speaker 2: just been driving in runs all year. That stung, Like
2:11
Speaker 2: this Red Series sucked. But that's three losses. You can
2:15
Speaker 2: move on. It's baseball. There's one hundred and fifty plus
2:18
Speaker 2: more games to go, like in a season. But losing
2:22
Speaker 2: Ryan O'Hearn for six to eight weeks for essentially the
2:26
Speaker 2: rest of the regular season, that's a gut punch. The
2:31
Speaker 2: only benefit I see is that at least it happened
2:34
Speaker 2: before today Monday of the tread date trade deadline so
2:38
Speaker 2: that the Pirates can go out and possibly get like
2:40
Speaker 2: a right handed bat to address that injury. A bit
2:44
Speaker 2: ironic that we were just talking about as Marillian Valdez
2:47
Speaker 2: who we thought might be out, and we listed off
2:49
Speaker 2: right handed bats like Taylor Ward and Joe Adell as
2:52
Speaker 2: trade targets, and now those guys are still trade targets,
2:55
Speaker 2: just for a different replacement. So yeah, the Ryan O'Hearn
3:00
Speaker 2: injury to me was probably the biggest loss or like
3:04
Speaker 2: biggest negative of the series outside of schemes looking not great.
3:09
Speaker 3: What about you, Josh, Yeah, obviously you know O'Hearn is
3:15
Speaker 3: a big gut punch, as you mentioned, given what he's
3:19
Speaker 3: done so far as you know for this team, stepping
3:21
Speaker 3: in and you know, being one of the better offenses
3:23
Speaker 3: is one of your better hitters. So that's definitely a
3:26
Speaker 3: gut punch. To not be missing, you know, for like
3:29
Speaker 3: ten days, to be missing for that substantial amount of
3:31
Speaker 3: time definitely sucks. But to not say the same thing
3:34
Speaker 3: as you, I'm gonna say, losing winnable games and I
3:40
Speaker 3: don't want to continue to sit here and be like oh,
3:45
Speaker 3: but at the same time, like winnable games means there's
3:48
Speaker 3: something that is not allowing you to finish games. We're
3:53
Speaker 3: not talking about this is baseball. They got a bloop,
3:55
Speaker 3: they got a dribbler, right, these are winnable games or
3:58
Speaker 3: like something and somebody's control could have caused that outcome
4:02
Speaker 3: to be, you know, in a pirates favor. And you know,
4:05
Speaker 3: you can deal with giving up pitch, you can deal with,
4:08
Speaker 3: you know, things not going your way, but when you're
4:10
Speaker 3: not taking care of the ball, you're not really giving
4:13
Speaker 3: yourself a chance. And defense for me was one of
4:17
Speaker 3: the things that you know, I spoke on earlier in
4:19
Speaker 3: the season that I didn't want to be the biggest
4:21
Speaker 3: disappointment in not saying it's the biggest disappointment, but in
4:24
Speaker 3: these moments where you're going through the skid. I think
4:26
Speaker 3: they're three and seven in the last ten. Your your
4:31
Speaker 3: guy Paul Schemes, not only is he not pitching well,
4:33
Speaker 3: the team overall isn't playing well. You got injuries. You
4:37
Speaker 3: cannot afford to have series or games that you are
4:40
Speaker 3: able to win and fumble the ball and allow teams
4:43
Speaker 3: to to you know, pretty much still not one. A
4:47
Speaker 3: couple from up under you and me those don't sit
4:50
Speaker 3: well because there's something that could have been done. Injuries
4:53
Speaker 3: are something that you really can't prevent. But yes, the
4:56
Speaker 3: injury is definitely a gut punch because that's somebody that
4:58
Speaker 3: you really need. But you know, losing winnable games at
5:05
Speaker 3: some point, it's got to be done with losing those games.
5:09
Speaker 3: You know, it's early part of the season. Okay, we
5:11
Speaker 3: have to yeah, okay, we went through our little struggles,
5:13
Speaker 3: but you're down to the final with less than sixty games.
5:18
Speaker 3: There's no time for those type of mistakes. And that
5:24
Speaker 3: is a part that that I mean, I feel like
5:26
Speaker 3: we've said this every other week, and it is obviously
5:33
Speaker 3: going to show up at these times because you're nearing
5:35
Speaker 3: the end of the season, your trade deadline. But by
5:38
Speaker 3: that time you would hope to, you know, clean up
5:41
Speaker 3: all the issues that you have or you're gonna address
5:43
Speaker 3: it through the trade deadline. But the way those winnable games,
5:47
Speaker 3: that's not really addressa but the trade deadline. That's got
5:50
Speaker 3: to be done in the clubhouse, and that's just attention
5:52
Speaker 3: to detail and focus.
5:55
Speaker 1: You lost your first two games of this series because
5:57
Speaker 1: people who are playing positions they have no business is
6:00
Speaker 1: playing made wrong decisions and high pressure situations. That's just
6:04
Speaker 1: what it is, yep. And I think that's a product
6:09
Speaker 1: of a few things. I mean, one, it's a product
6:12
Speaker 1: of injury in a way, right, Like if Connor Griffin
6:15
Speaker 1: is at shortstop, probably something a little different happens on
6:19
Speaker 1: the Friday, the Thursday night loss maybe, But like the
6:24
Speaker 1: bigger thing is just like we said it all, Like
6:28
Speaker 1: Nicknzalez has been one of the best hitters in the
6:31
Speaker 1: National League as far as pure hitting is concerned, but
6:35
Speaker 1: he is not a third baseman. And that's a very
6:37
Speaker 1: tough position to play. And it just goes to show
6:42
Speaker 1: when you play people out of position and you have
6:45
Speaker 1: these high pressure situations and all eyes are on you,
6:50
Speaker 1: it's like the stadium pulse and NCAA like the controller
6:54
Speaker 1: shaking the heartbeat. Like that's That's the thing that baseball
6:57
Speaker 1: players will always say is like being able to control
7:00
Speaker 1: you're breathing your heart breath, Like when the game speeds
7:02
Speaker 1: up on you, how do you react. And we've just
7:07
Speaker 1: seen it so many times defensively with this team, where
7:10
Speaker 1: the game just speeds up on it. It looks like
7:13
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to like demean professional athletes. I
7:16
Speaker 1: understand how hard this game is to play at that level.
7:18
Speaker 1: I don't fully understand because I didn't do it, but
7:20
Speaker 1: like I comprehend the difficulty of which they're playing this sport.
7:24
Speaker 1: But at the same time, these are mistakes that you
7:27
Speaker 1: make in high school baseball. That is something I would
7:30
Speaker 1: see covering the Whipio playoffs, and a kid who's like
7:34
Speaker 1: a sophomore make that play throw to second base, and
7:38
Speaker 1: that's just inexcusable major League baseball that you cannot blame
7:43
Speaker 1: a coach on that. That is just something where it's
7:46
Speaker 1: like anyone who's watched baseball just knows, throw the ball
7:50
Speaker 1: to first base. There man throw the ball to first
7:53
Speaker 1: base and Brandon Low's got to catch it. But at
7:55
Speaker 1: the same time, I can't blame Brandon Low a ton
7:57
Speaker 1: for that. But it's just how many games have they
8:00
Speaker 1: lost because of things like that? How many Paul Skeen
8:03
Speaker 1: starts have been ruined because of things like that or
8:06
Speaker 1: other things? And you look back, so who do you blame.
8:09
Speaker 1: Do you blame the guy who built the team or
8:11
Speaker 1: do you blame the budget that he had to work
8:13
Speaker 1: with where he couldn't go out and get certain players
8:16
Speaker 1: at certain positions, they take whoever the hell they could get,
8:20
Speaker 1: and whoever the hell they could get was a whole
8:22
Speaker 1: bunch of left handed power hitters who all played on
8:25
Speaker 1: the right side of the infield or the right side
8:27
Speaker 1: of the outfield or designated hitter, and they had a
8:30
Speaker 1: whole bunch of the same thing. And they've tried their
8:32
Speaker 1: best to make it work. But in reality, you're not
8:35
Speaker 1: going to survive a season with a third of your
8:39
Speaker 1: lineup at minimum playing out of position every single day.
8:44
Speaker 1: And then when guys get injured, you have more guys
8:46
Speaker 1: playing out a position every single day. And that's the
8:50
Speaker 1: one thing I mean, I hate when people bitch about
8:54
Speaker 1: it analytics, because analytics, at the end of the day,
8:57
Speaker 1: all it is is information, and information should go into
9:00
Speaker 1: every decision you make, whether if you're buying a car,
9:03
Speaker 1: if you're buying toothpaste, or if you're buying a major
9:05
Speaker 1: league baseball player. You should use the most information you
9:08
Speaker 1: have at your disposal to make an informed, accurate decision.
9:12
Speaker 1: But at the same time, some things that analytics don't
9:14
Speaker 1: account for is a guy's heartbeat playing a position and
9:18
Speaker 1: against the division rival in the bottom of the eighth inning,
9:21
Speaker 1: in a game that they have to win, what is
9:24
Speaker 1: he going to do? And in that instance, for lack
9:27
Speaker 1: of a better term, and I apologize for the blunt
9:30
Speaker 1: way to put it, he pissed down his leg. That's
9:32
Speaker 1: what happened. And that's very unfortunate for the Pittsburgh Pirates
9:36
Speaker 1: because you follow that up by your leader, your clubhouse
9:40
Speaker 1: suffering probably a season ending injury. Where do you go
9:45
Speaker 1: from there? And it's just stuff like that where it's
9:47
Speaker 1: like Nick Gonzalez should not be playing third base. They
9:50
Speaker 1: have to play them at third base because they couldn't
9:52
Speaker 1: find a way to get a third baseman to come
9:53
Speaker 1: to Pittsburgh this year. And that's on Ben Cherrington, that's
9:57
Speaker 1: on Bob Nudding, that's whoever. But at the same time
9:59
Speaker 1: Nick and he also has been playing third base all year, right,
10:04
Speaker 1: make a play man. So there's so many, so much
10:06
Speaker 1: blame to go around. It's baseball, and it's just immensely
10:10
Speaker 1: disappointing to watch. It's disappointing to watch Mitch Keller, Bryan
10:16
Speaker 1: freaking Hayes, it's a it's embarrassing to watch this starting
10:19
Speaker 1: rotation who puffed his chest out and talked all offseason
10:23
Speaker 1: about how it was gonna blow doors and how it's
10:25
Speaker 1: gonna get Yeah, and not one of them has been
10:30
Speaker 1: as good as advertised this year, aside from the guy
10:33
Speaker 1: who they refuse to let actually help their team more
10:37
Speaker 1: than just five to six innings, and he's only been
10:39
Speaker 1: good for like a month, by the way, but he's
10:41
Speaker 1: still been their best starting pitcher this year. Him are
10:44
Speaker 1: their all star who can't keep it together consistently anymore,
10:49
Speaker 1: And then you just look at the fielding. The offense
10:51
Speaker 1: also has had maybe two games in the last two
10:54
Speaker 1: weeks where it's done its job. And I get that
10:57
Speaker 1: it's banged up, but man, I mean, maybe you shouldn't
11:01
Speaker 1: have put so much faith in the in the twenty
11:04
Speaker 1: two year old. Yeah who Yeah, he went scorched earth,
11:07
Speaker 1: But how long was that gonna last? I think we
11:10
Speaker 1: found the answer to that.
11:11
Speaker 2: And how much can he do when there's only four
11:14
Speaker 2: hits on the entire day by the team?
11:16
Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, they're they're behm.
11:20
Speaker 1: I will say this their schedule, I mean besides yeah,
11:26
Speaker 1: besides the next four days where they're playing the Milwaukee Brewers,
11:28
Speaker 1: and that just seems like we're gonna see a position
11:32
Speaker 1: player on the mound at least twice that series. Based
11:34
Speaker 1: off the way this is trending, it's like it doesn't
11:39
Speaker 1: get easier altogether. But I will say like it's definitely
11:42
Speaker 1: easier than what they've gone through when you look over it.
11:45
Speaker 1: But it's like, can they recover? I don't know if
11:47
Speaker 1: if they did, it would be the most unpirates thing
11:51
Speaker 1: I've seen them do in a long time, because it
11:55
Speaker 1: just feels like the wheels have fallen off here. And
11:59
Speaker 1: that's the one thing that I will give this team
12:01
Speaker 1: credit for is that they never allowed things to snowball.
12:04
Speaker 1: They've never been two games below five hundred. While they've
12:08
Speaker 1: never been able to stack wins, they've never allowed it
12:11
Speaker 1: to spiral out of control. I'm looking at here. I
12:14
Speaker 1: don't see how this doesn't spiral. I just don't. Between
12:17
Speaker 1: the injuries, between the four games that they have coming
12:20
Speaker 1: up here, man, I mean that that Reds team was dead.
12:25
Speaker 1: That Reds team has no heart, no soul. Half that
12:28
Speaker 1: roster is not even gonna be on that team tomorrow.
12:31
Speaker 2: The broadcast was on Hugwatch for them, Yeah yeah, and
12:35
Speaker 2: they just there.
12:38
Speaker 3: It's gonna have to change attention to detail people playing
12:40
Speaker 3: out a position which we knew coming into the season.
12:43
Speaker 3: As you said, still big leaguers, you gotta know where
12:48
Speaker 3: you're going with the ball. You gotta know the situation.
12:50
Speaker 3: Even in that situation, Low you know, covering second, might
12:55
Speaker 3: not have been ready for the throw just because.
12:56
Speaker 4: He's like, oh, he can't throw this to me.
12:58
Speaker 3: A little bit of focus of still expect to throw,
13:01
Speaker 3: Nick Gonzales, Yes, you should be going to first even
13:04
Speaker 3: if you committed, you know what, put yourself in episode
13:06
Speaker 3: you're covering second base and you're not there. You don't
13:08
Speaker 3: want to throw coming when you're that far away. But
13:11
Speaker 3: as you said, things speed up. But man, we're here
13:14
Speaker 3: at this point in season. There's no more excuses because
13:17
Speaker 3: when you know you got guys out of position, you
13:19
Speaker 3: need to hone in on the routine plays, plays like that,
13:24
Speaker 3: hey in this situation. Granted, the only way you learn,
13:26
Speaker 3: honestly is in those situations. But that's why you have
13:29
Speaker 3: to have that much more attention to detail and focus
13:31
Speaker 3: when you're going through the drill work, when you're taking
13:34
Speaker 3: your ground balls and you know, doing situational work to
13:37
Speaker 3: know that, okay, hey, if he's not covering second, I
13:39
Speaker 3: got to be able to reset my feet and fire
13:41
Speaker 3: throw the first, because not everybody's going to be on
13:43
Speaker 3: the same wavelength. Low might have got a bad jumper,
13:46
Speaker 3: didn't see the ball. So sometimes you just can't assume.
13:49
Speaker 3: And a lot of times when you got guys playing
13:51
Speaker 3: out of position, they're going to assume what they've been
13:53
Speaker 3: told it's supposed to happen.
13:55
Speaker 4: It's gonna happen, and it's like no.
13:57
Speaker 3: You still have to be an athlete and make an
13:59
Speaker 3: adjustment to say, oh O, my guy's not at the base,
14:01
Speaker 3: let me throw it first.
14:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we haven't even got to the worst part yet.
14:08
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that next. Here on Bucco Territory.
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15:18
Speaker 1: Paul Skins needed to step up on Friday. We said
15:23
Speaker 1: on the show, we said, be an ace. It's as
15:26
Speaker 1: simple as that. He did not. He walked too many people,
15:33
Speaker 1: His stuff wasn't good. It just didn't work. I'm gonna
15:38
Speaker 1: start off by just saying this. If this team doesn't
15:41
Speaker 1: make the playoffs, there is plenty of blame to be
15:44
Speaker 1: placed around. There's plenty of blame to go around on
15:46
Speaker 1: the front office, on ownership, on coaching, on many people
15:51
Speaker 1: in the locker room, in the clubhouse. I should say
15:54
Speaker 1: Paul Skans deserves a lot of blame on this season
15:59
Speaker 1: if they don't make the plays, because if he isn't
16:03
Speaker 1: going nothing else matters. We can talk about the defense,
16:07
Speaker 1: we talk about the offense going cold. We could talk
16:11
Speaker 1: you know, you could call Don Kelly a bad manager,
16:14
Speaker 1: point out how Ben Sherrington hasn't built a winning roster
16:17
Speaker 1: in seven years, or if Paul Skins can't have a
16:21
Speaker 1: sub three e r A. This just doesn't matter. It
16:25
Speaker 1: just doesn't because that's that's the thing that everyone once,
16:30
Speaker 1: all the people who were cheering for the Pirates or
16:32
Speaker 1: even non Pirates fans who are like I would love
16:34
Speaker 1: to see this team get into the playoffs. Why it's
16:36
Speaker 1: to see what Paul Skeens could do. Because we've seen
16:40
Speaker 1: what elite pitchers can do. Look at what Yamamoto did
16:42
Speaker 1: for the Dodgers last year. He wasn't the sole reason
16:45
Speaker 1: why they won the World Series, but they probably don't
16:47
Speaker 1: win it without him. Bys and Bumgardner literally carried a
16:52
Speaker 1: baseball team, sorry, Josh, carried a baseball team to a
16:56
Speaker 1: World Series championship. Like you when you have that ace,
17:01
Speaker 1: that horse it is the ultimate equalizer. And for two
17:06
Speaker 1: years all we did was here about, Oh, this guy
17:09
Speaker 1: could just get an offense and they could get him
17:11
Speaker 1: in there. It will be a game changer. He's not
17:16
Speaker 1: getting there this year because of himself. And I don't
17:19
Speaker 1: know if he's hurt or I don't know if he
17:21
Speaker 1: didn't condition to himself properly. I don't know if he's
17:23
Speaker 1: in his own head. I don't know if it's coaching.
17:26
Speaker 1: Surely the defense hasn't helped him. But at the same time,
17:30
Speaker 1: how many times has Paul Schemes won this baseball team
17:33
Speaker 1: a game this year? Think about it. I can tell
17:36
Speaker 1: you how many times he's gotten a win and a blowout, right,
17:40
Speaker 1: I mean now, all his last three wins, they were
17:43
Speaker 1: lopsided scores, some of them as defense even made plays
17:47
Speaker 1: to help him. But when's the last time this guy
17:50
Speaker 1: pitched them seven innings of shutout ball and a one
17:54
Speaker 1: nothing win. I you might have to go back to
17:58
Speaker 1: like April early May. I'm sorry, and I get it.
18:02
Speaker 1: Like people are protective of Schemes. He is one of
18:07
Speaker 1: the most popular athletes that this city has ever called,
18:10
Speaker 1: you know, their own, and deservedly so because Prior to
18:14
Speaker 1: this year, he was unbelievable. But the drop off, it's
18:20
Speaker 1: no longer like a concern. It's just a disappointment. He's
18:25
Speaker 1: like hovering on a four earned run average. If you
18:28
Speaker 1: gave me one hundred guesses as to how Paul Skeins
18:32
Speaker 1: this season would go, I would have never guessed it
18:35
Speaker 1: because there and if you're injured, then you gotta sit
18:37
Speaker 1: down because you're hurting the team. They are a worst team.
18:41
Speaker 1: I wrote it earlier this year that they're a worst team.
18:43
Speaker 1: When he's on the mound, they're it looked like they
18:48
Speaker 1: had a triple a call up on the mount on
18:50
Speaker 1: Friday against a team where he owns them, and like,
18:56
Speaker 1: I'm getting all fired up and everything, and I'm not
18:58
Speaker 1: even a fan, but it's it is just so I
19:03
Speaker 1: can't even picture just how disappointing it is for the
19:06
Speaker 1: fans and even just for someone who covers it. It's like, man,
19:10
Speaker 1: it was all about putting Paul Skins in a chance
19:12
Speaker 1: to give him the opportunity to be great, give him
19:15
Speaker 1: the opportunity to will your team to win. And they've
19:18
Speaker 1: done that, and to his credit, in the beginning of July,
19:22
Speaker 1: he stepped up and again it was run support whatever.
19:25
Speaker 1: He's still held up at his end of the bargain.
19:27
Speaker 1: They needed him to shut down, showed up, or go
19:29
Speaker 1: toe to toe with him. He couldn't do it. And
19:32
Speaker 1: then he goes into the Reds Great American Ballpark, which
19:36
Speaker 1: I get as a hitter's part, but come on, man,
19:39
Speaker 1: come on. That team is dead. This is that should
19:43
Speaker 1: have been food for him. They embarrassed him. They embarrassed him.
19:48
Speaker 1: That's a last place team that made it made him
19:52
Speaker 1: there is yep. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna stop talking him.
19:56
Speaker 2: Mark Josh go ahead, Yeah, I'll jump in here. I mean,
19:59
Speaker 2: at this point, I almost like it feels weird to say,
20:02
Speaker 2: but I almost hope it's injury related, because if it's not,
20:07
Speaker 2: then that is almost more concerning, because yeah, I mean,
20:11
Speaker 2: I like, the off speed stuff is obviously like what's
20:15
Speaker 2: really been really hurt this year, and but like it's
20:19
Speaker 2: also why it's like, obviously we've seen the velocity fall off.
20:22
Speaker 2: Was the velocity what was driving all the off speed
20:25
Speaker 2: stuff success in the past and now because that's not there,
20:28
Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, it's it's just so concerning
20:32
Speaker 2: because this team was built around Paul Skins. Right, this
20:35
Speaker 2: is why you're going in And we've been saying all
20:38
Speaker 2: off season, you only have so many years of Paul
20:41
Speaker 2: Skians as a Pittsburgh pirate, or at least that's what
20:43
Speaker 2: it looked like, and so to have one of these
20:47
Speaker 2: years wasted because of him and his performance is it's
20:53
Speaker 2: just like you said, it's just disappointing. I still believe
20:57
Speaker 2: that he'll figure things out and get better and get
21:00
Speaker 2: right back to it, but what we've seen this year
21:03
Speaker 2: that's just me being optimistic. I mean, there's not a
21:05
Speaker 2: lot to go and support that. Yeah, exactly exactly. You're
21:10
Speaker 2: looking back and saying, well, he's done it like two
21:13
Speaker 2: seasons prior, he's got to get back to it. But yeah,
21:16
Speaker 2: I don't know if the league's figured him out, if
21:18
Speaker 2: the book is out on him, if it like you said,
21:21
Speaker 2: if it's coaching, if it's just him not being conditioned enough,
21:27
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it it doesn't look good. And
21:30
Speaker 2: like I've gone back and watched some of his performance,
21:33
Speaker 2: like him pitch a year or two ago, and you
21:37
Speaker 2: can just tell it's like, oh, this is a different
21:39
Speaker 2: pitcher than who I just watched last week. The movement
21:44
Speaker 2: just it doesn't feel like it's there, let alone in
21:46
Speaker 2: the philosophy, and so yeah, I mean I don't. I
21:50
Speaker 2: haven't wanted to be an alarmist because he had put
21:53
Speaker 2: in such a body of work that you can trust
21:56
Speaker 2: that he's going to get better. But at this point,
21:59
Speaker 2: like the pan button is getting pressed for me where
22:02
Speaker 2: it's like this, it hasn't been getting better. This is
22:06
Speaker 2: concerning Josh as a former player. Seemed like a guy
22:11
Speaker 2: go from such dominance to not What are your thoughts?
22:19
Speaker 3: Definitely I can see how from a fan standpoint, you
22:23
Speaker 3: guys are you know, I didn't know, not even from
22:26
Speaker 3: fan standpoint, but just keep using the word disappointing. I
22:29
Speaker 3: can even, you know, see some of it being disheartening
22:32
Speaker 3: because you know, for the past couple of years, when
22:34
Speaker 3: you think of the Pirates, there was literally one person
22:37
Speaker 3: that came into my pauschemes, regardless who was on the team,
22:41
Speaker 3: just because that's how great he was. And I take
22:44
Speaker 3: things a step further just to look at to say,
22:46
Speaker 3: his body of work speaks for itself. You know, it's
22:49
Speaker 3: in there, but I look at a lot of different
22:51
Speaker 3: other factors that could be underlying. Maybe there's something going
22:55
Speaker 3: on physically that you know he won't release, But I
22:59
Speaker 3: I highly doubt that because somebody in his situation, if
23:02
Speaker 3: it's something that is right, you know, alarming, you know,
23:05
Speaker 3: they're they're they're gonna take precaution. Me this is just
23:09
Speaker 3: pure speculation. For me, I think it's a total disconnect
23:15
Speaker 3: with something with him physically not hurt, but his first
23:19
Speaker 3: two years, I mean, new pitching coach, maybe different mentality,
23:25
Speaker 3: and it's not just Paul. The whole starting staff has
23:27
Speaker 3: not necessarily progressed. You had a pitching coach that got
23:30
Speaker 3: let go that you know, probably had certain keys and
23:33
Speaker 3: stuff that could could tell you know something different. And yes,
23:38
Speaker 3: we look here and say his velocity is down a
23:40
Speaker 3: lot of people, Yes, oh he's saving it, he's learning
23:43
Speaker 3: how to pitch this or that. But when you have
23:46
Speaker 3: significant drop offs like that, there's something to me that
23:50
Speaker 3: is going on, either physically, which I would highly doubt
23:53
Speaker 3: he would be putt himself in that much harm if
23:55
Speaker 3: if something's going on. But at the same time, this
23:58
Speaker 3: is also a situation he's never been in the big
24:01
Speaker 3: leagues with a potential to win. So I also say
24:04
Speaker 3: maybe he is pitching through something that he doesn't really
24:06
Speaker 3: want to because he feels this might be an opportunity
24:08
Speaker 3: to win. But on the flip side, mechanically, maybe something's
24:13
Speaker 3: off because when you don't have the velo, you start
24:16
Speaker 3: trying to add somewhere else. It's like a hitter who
24:18
Speaker 3: feels like his swing is off. You start going a
24:21
Speaker 3: tinker and not realizing you may be putting more effort
24:23
Speaker 3: into something that might be slowing your bat speed down.
24:26
Speaker 4: That might be you know, slowing your hands down.
24:29
Speaker 3: And I think it just might be a collection of
24:31
Speaker 3: everything of where he knows he hasn't been his greatest
24:35
Speaker 3: and if it's not physical, that means it's something mechanical
24:39
Speaker 3: that's not a lot mechanical or mental that's not allowing
24:42
Speaker 3: him to, you know, reconnect with what he felt the
24:46
Speaker 3: previous two years.
24:47
Speaker 4: And from a guy that has had years.
24:50
Speaker 3: Of success, years of not as great success coming from
24:52
Speaker 3: injury and something from non injury. You know, when you
24:56
Speaker 3: go through things, you do try to feel things out.
24:59
Speaker 3: But one thing that you know is if you're not injured,
25:03
Speaker 3: like you're able to put forth the effort. And I
25:06
Speaker 3: don't think it's an effort thing. That's why I said,
25:08
Speaker 3: I feel like if something was wrong. You'd see, you know,
25:11
Speaker 3: some pitch count stuff. But you mentioned his off speed.
25:14
Speaker 3: If his fastball isn't sharp, his off speed is not
25:18
Speaker 3: going to be sharp because you have to pitch with
25:20
Speaker 3: your fastball, and if you lose a little bit of
25:22
Speaker 3: confidence in that, now you're going back and you're trying
25:25
Speaker 3: to change something, you might lose a little bit. I'm
25:29
Speaker 3: just going off of being a ball player that's seen
25:31
Speaker 3: pictures lose confidence that have lost velocity. And sometimes it's
25:36
Speaker 3: not an injury. Sometimes it's man, he's not in his
25:39
Speaker 3: backside or you know what, Usually when he goes to
25:42
Speaker 3: lift his leg, his gloves in a position that allows
25:45
Speaker 3: him to load up and push off his backside. Maybe
25:48
Speaker 3: something in his setup has him searching for, you know,
25:53
Speaker 3: his money spot and he just hasn't been consistent. But
25:58
Speaker 3: that's still I don't want to say an excuse. You
26:00
Speaker 3: need your ace to be your ace, but you want
26:02
Speaker 3: it to turn around. But the other thing that I said, maybe,
26:06
Speaker 3: you know, letting the pitching coach go might not have
26:08
Speaker 3: been the best thing. Maybe he was a set of
26:10
Speaker 3: eyes that was able to pick up on these small
26:12
Speaker 3: things that to the naked eye or to another pitching
26:15
Speaker 3: coach doesn't seem like a big deal, but he knows
26:17
Speaker 3: Paul Skins, Hey, man, when you're right, you're thinking big
26:20
Speaker 3: toe or you know something that seems so trivial to somebody,
26:23
Speaker 3: but it's like, you know what familiarity and sometimes just
26:27
Speaker 3: popping somebody in is not gonna And if it's not that,
26:30
Speaker 3: it's got to be something that Paul has to figure out.
26:34
Speaker 1: I think the easiest way to summarize it is he's lost.
26:37
Speaker 1: He's lost. He because he he can say he knows
26:41
Speaker 1: what's going on, or or maybe he doesn't say that.
26:45
Speaker 1: But it's just like if you're if you think you
26:48
Speaker 1: I've identified the problem, or if you don't. Either way
26:51
Speaker 1: you're not fixing the problem. You're not getting better. So
26:55
Speaker 1: you're either lost in the sense of you don't know
26:58
Speaker 1: what's wrong. You're lost in the sense it's where you
27:00
Speaker 1: don't know how to fix what's wrong, or you're lost
27:03
Speaker 1: in the sense where you're hurt and you're not telling people.
27:08
Speaker 1: And either way it's just you're lost. It's it's it's
27:11
Speaker 1: gone on long enough where he has not looked like
27:13
Speaker 1: he's been good. At times this year, he has not
27:17
Speaker 1: been Paul skiing's good since mid May, and that's.
27:23
Speaker 4: More than changed in between, Like you know what I mean.
27:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's to the post. Yeah, it's to
27:35
Speaker 1: the point now where I mean, obviously there's a lot
27:39
Speaker 1: of season left and if he flips it on, that's great,
27:42
Speaker 1: but regardless unless he you know, And and that's the
27:48
Speaker 1: other thing.
27:49
Speaker 3: And sometimes that's why I said, it might just be
27:51
Speaker 3: one small thing that he might feel on a on
27:53
Speaker 3: a side day on the you know, and that's what
27:56
Speaker 3: I'm hoping for, because.
27:57
Speaker 4: Sometimes it takes one small thing.
28:00
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's to a point now where if
28:03
Speaker 1: he doesn't go on some herculean run to end the year,
28:08
Speaker 1: regardless of how much better he gets, like he could
28:10
Speaker 1: finish the year with like a three five o e
28:12
Speaker 1: R or even the like in the three threes or
28:14
Speaker 1: something like that, and that'd be a very good finish
28:16
Speaker 1: for him. But it's getting to a point where, like,
28:19
Speaker 1: what do you expect from him next year? Yep, because
28:23
Speaker 1: it's this is a guy who through two seasons in
28:26
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball through a sub two and now it's
28:31
Speaker 1: looking like he's gonna have an ERA over four at
28:35
Speaker 1: the end of the year. That is double what he's
28:39
Speaker 1: used to. So when you go through that dramatic of
28:42
Speaker 1: regression and you go into your four, you're thinking, what
28:46
Speaker 1: in the world is happening. Also, he grats to the pirates,
28:49
Speaker 1: they just saved a whole hell of ar year.
28:52
Speaker 2: I'll uh, I'll wrap it up my end here with
28:55
Speaker 2: one little positive thing. Paul is still Paul skin is
29:00
Speaker 2: so really good this year in certain metrics. He has
29:04
Speaker 2: the six highest fip uh is expected e ra as
29:07
Speaker 2: two point nine to four. So a lot of bad luck,
29:11
Speaker 2: a lot of bad defense behind him. Still, let's grasping
29:16
Speaker 2: that straws uh yeah safe, yeah, yeah.
29:20
Speaker 3: I just think the bigger I mean, originally the velocity
29:23
Speaker 3: wasn't an issue, but the more that I see it
29:25
Speaker 3: continue to dip, that's the biggest issue to me. Because
29:28
Speaker 3: you lose your velocity, you're gonna lose tightness on your spin,
29:33
Speaker 3: on your on your off speed pictures. So it's all
29:35
Speaker 3: going to take an effect. Until he can find his velocity,
29:38
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be the main marker because
29:42
Speaker 3: if if he doesn't find that, that's going to be
29:45
Speaker 3: the that's the biggest test.
29:47
Speaker 4: Yep.
29:47
Speaker 1: And if it's a self decision, then make a different decision.
29:52
Speaker 1: Show it and you throw a hundred. Still, let's see it.
29:56
Speaker 1: I don't know, only if you yeah, if you're healthy,
30:01
Speaker 1: all right, We'll let Mark give us some positivity than
30:04
Speaker 1: the show. We're going to take a quick break then
30:06
Speaker 1: Platinum Keys Key of the Week when we come back.
30:09
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31:13
Speaker 2: All right, and now my key of the Week segment
31:15
Speaker 2: here this week it's the Monday trade again. For some reason,
31:22
Speaker 2: I didn't you know I hit that this week. Yeah,
31:26
Speaker 2: I didn't feel right this week, but yeah, massive Massive
31:30
Speaker 2: Day might be the biggest twenty four hours here. We're
31:33
Speaker 2: recording at five point fifty two, so next twenty three
31:36
Speaker 2: hours here. So Ben Sherrington has a lot of moves
31:41
Speaker 2: to make to improve this team. We need bullpen help still,
31:45
Speaker 2: he added Camillo Deval. We saw how that went on
31:50
Speaker 2: in Sunday's game. The very first batter he faced gave
31:53
Speaker 2: up a home run. So a lot of that with
31:56
Speaker 2: the Yankees, we'll see. So need more bull help, especially
32:01
Speaker 2: back end bullpen help. I don't know if you want
32:04
Speaker 2: to go Mason Miller level, but there's options out there
32:07
Speaker 2: that are really good. Still, look at the Mets, look
32:11
Speaker 2: at the Rockies, and also just a right handed bet.
32:14
Speaker 2: Like we said, Joe Adell Taylor Ward gets some help.
32:18
Speaker 2: This team needs it. This team needs a shot in
32:20
Speaker 2: the arm bad after that Red Series. This fan base
32:23
Speaker 2: needs a shot in the arm. It's it's tough being
32:28
Speaker 2: the optimistic guy right now after that series, but keep
32:33
Speaker 2: your head up. Who knows what they'll do against the Brewers.
32:38
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting one in three record against the Reds.
32:42
Speaker 2: I'd love to, you know, have everyone be surprised in
32:45
Speaker 2: the Brewers and they completely opposite direction. And maybe that's
32:48
Speaker 2: just baseball, but critical critical day here for Ben Sherrington.
32:53
Speaker 2: If he wants to save his job, if he wants
32:56
Speaker 2: to save this season, Monday is the time to do it.
33:00
Speaker 2: So it's a full stop period time to go if
33:04
Speaker 2: you want to. If this team wants to make the postseason,
33:07
Speaker 2: it needs help at this trade deadline, and today is
33:10
Speaker 2: the day to do it. So we'll see. I don't
33:13
Speaker 2: know if they're gonna be trading prospects, if they're gonna
33:15
Speaker 2: be trading MLB level talent. It seems like everyone's on
33:18
Speaker 2: the table. I don't know what MLB talent you'd be
33:21
Speaker 2: willing to part with if you're trying to make the playoffs. Yeah, maybe,
33:27
Speaker 2: Carmen Macjenski if you're getting something really attractive back. But
33:32
Speaker 2: I don't know why you'd be going and trading your
33:34
Speaker 2: best reliever right now. So yeah, it we'll see. They
33:38
Speaker 2: have some pieces like prospect pieces that are pretty attractive.
33:42
Speaker 2: Don't trade Seth Fernandez. If you're trading Edward Florentino, I
33:47
Speaker 2: would better be for someone really, really damn good. Yeah,
33:51
Speaker 2: it's it's gonna be a big, big day here at
33:55
Speaker 2: the time of publishing. So yeah, Josh, wait in here.
34:01
Speaker 4: Keep that optimism.
34:02
Speaker 2: Mark's got to keep someone.
34:05
Speaker 4: Baseball is a.
34:06
Speaker 3: Long season, one game at a time, and to help
34:08
Speaker 3: with your optimism, still within striking distance. So as you mentioned,
34:12
Speaker 3: these next twenty three hours are critical. So it's not
34:16
Speaker 3: like it's completely out of the water, because as you mentioned,
34:20
Speaker 3: a little less than two months or around two months,
34:22
Speaker 3: three games out. The time is now stop the skid
34:26
Speaker 3: and as you mentioned, get some help, and obviously you
34:30
Speaker 3: need bullpen help. But the biggest thing for me was
34:33
Speaker 3: obviously O'Hearn that presence is going to be missed, so
34:36
Speaker 3: you definitely want to make sure that you can do
34:38
Speaker 3: something and don't make a move just to feel you're
34:41
Speaker 3: going to make a move. If it's not going to
34:42
Speaker 3: make the team better, it's not going to make it
34:45
Speaker 3: make any sense.
34:45
Speaker 4: But you have to. I mean, you're within striking distance.
34:48
Speaker 3: So for you mark to keep that optimism one day
34:51
Speaker 3: at a time and hey, keep hanging in there. Man.
34:55
Speaker 3: It's gonna take a collective effort for sure, and it
34:58
Speaker 3: starts with being able to add a little bit more.
35:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with Josh in the center. It's like,
35:04
Speaker 1: I don't think this season's over. It certainly looks like
35:07
Speaker 1: it and feels like if you like in the reality,
35:09
Speaker 1: I mean, you're still less than four games back. You're
35:11
Speaker 1: a game under five hundred, but like, who cares you're
35:13
Speaker 1: less than four games back. You're gonna get O'Neill back
35:16
Speaker 1: here soon. I mean, you have the team that can
35:20
Speaker 1: do that. You just it's just got to be now,
35:22
Speaker 1: Like there's there's no more.
35:23
Speaker 4: Like yeah, don't don't. You can't wait on.
35:28
Speaker 1: Yeah no, And I mean they need help. I agree. Uh,
35:32
Speaker 1: they need to make like three or four trades at
35:34
Speaker 1: minimum on Monday, and it needs to be impact and
35:38
Speaker 1: it needs to impact the team everywhere. The offense needs help,
35:41
Speaker 1: the rotation needs help, the bullpen needs so much help.
35:45
Speaker 1: Uh So you got to you gotta do it, and
35:48
Speaker 1: you gotta play winning baseball. But the reality is we're
35:50
Speaker 1: recording this on Sunday, August. Second, you look at the remainder.
35:54
Speaker 1: If they go four games over five hundred in August
35:57
Speaker 1: and they go four games over five hundred in September,
36:00
Speaker 1: it's a playoff team.
36:01
Speaker 4: Yep.
36:01
Speaker 1: That just is what it is. So if you win
36:05
Speaker 1: your series at home and you go five hundred on
36:06
Speaker 1: the road, from here on out, you probably are making
36:08
Speaker 1: the playoffs. You got to do that. You gotta do it.
36:12
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter if it's the Dodgers or the
36:14
Speaker 1: Padres or the Brewers who you still have to play,
36:17
Speaker 1: or the Marlins or whatever. I mean. Look at the Marlins.
36:20
Speaker 1: They lost like ten in a row last month and
36:24
Speaker 1: now they're back ahead of the Pirates. Like it can
36:26
Speaker 1: be done. The Tigers have snucket in the playoffs. Cleveland
36:29
Speaker 1: got hot last week, the whole sasion. The Red Sox
36:33
Speaker 1: were a joke at the beginning of this year, and
36:34
Speaker 1: now they're a playoff team. Like it can be done.
36:38
Speaker 1: It doesn't typically happen here. I remember one season where
36:41
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh team had a pretty good September. One guy on
36:45
Speaker 1: this show might remember that season pretty fondly. Twenty fourteen.
36:49
Speaker 1: They got hot at the right time and they pushed
36:51
Speaker 1: and they made it in And a lot of people
36:53
Speaker 1: didn't think they were getting in that year just because
36:56
Speaker 1: of injuries and their lack of adding anything at the
36:59
Speaker 1: deadline that year. Here. But we'll see what happens at
37:02
Speaker 1: the trade deadline. At the end of the day, it's
37:04
Speaker 1: not over. But like you gotta get your head out
37:06
Speaker 1: of your ass and start playing some ball otherwise it
37:08
Speaker 1: will be over. And it can it can be over
37:11
Speaker 1: by the end of this week.
37:12
Speaker 4: If you don't.
37:14
Speaker 1: If you yeah, yeah, so you know it's not over.
37:18
Speaker 1: Is this show. We're gonna keep talking about baseball even
37:21
Speaker 1: if this team keeps stinking. So hit that subscribe button
37:25
Speaker 1: if you want to come here for some Buco therapy
37:27
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe some Platinum Key positivity while this
37:30
Speaker 1: guy's falling around him.
37:32
Speaker 4: I love it.
37:34
Speaker 1: You can also check out the team shop but Goo Territory,
37:38
Speaker 1: Team Starry. We got a lot of good stuff there.
37:40
Speaker 1: One other thing to keep an eye on is there's
37:43
Speaker 1: a lot going on tomorrow on Monday today, I should say,
37:46
Speaker 1: and we have you covered on foul Territory, the Trade
37:49
Speaker 1: Deadline Show. Gotta tune in for that. It's gonna be
37:52
Speaker 1: a good one. I think I might be on it,
37:53
Speaker 1: So tune into that perfect.
37:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. For my little final thought, I I just wanted
38:01
Speaker 2: to show, Josh, you have one plate appearance against Camillo Daval.
38:05
Speaker 2: I don't know, do you remember how that went?
38:07
Speaker 1: Yeah?
38:07
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, a slider right off the thigh there, So
38:14
Speaker 7: I remember, yeah, yeah, you saw two pictures against him
38:18
Speaker 7: and that was one of them.
38:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say I thought you might
38:25
Speaker 2: remember that one. Yeah, an you final thoughts, Josh.
38:32
Speaker 3: Uh, since you just brung him up. If they can
38:34
Speaker 3: get him right, he can, he's gonna be nasty. Yeah,
38:37
Speaker 3: But as you mentioned, if they can get him right,
38:38
Speaker 3: obviously had a little bit struggles with the.
38:40
Speaker 4: Yankees, but hey, change the scenery.
38:42
Speaker 3: A guy that's done it before, this is another guy
38:46
Speaker 3: that can help this bullpen. But it's gonna be more
38:49
Speaker 3: than just him. But step in the right direction. But
38:51
Speaker 3: very interested to see how he's next. Twenty three hours
38:54
Speaker 3: go and only time will two.
38:58
Speaker 1: Yes, my fine thought is going to be something not
39:01
Speaker 1: related to the field. I just want to extend my
39:04
Speaker 1: condolences to Michael Ncarelli's family. I had the privilege of
39:08
Speaker 1: telling his story a couple of months ago. He passed
39:11
Speaker 1: away Sunday morning. It's been a little bit of a
39:13
Speaker 1: tough day for me. I won't pretend to have known
39:16
Speaker 1: him well, but in the short time that I did
39:18
Speaker 1: know him, I had a really just a really one
39:23
Speaker 1: of probably the biggest honor of my career is getting
39:25
Speaker 1: to write about his life journey, his perspective on life.
39:28
Speaker 1: And it's sad. It's sad that we live in a
39:31
Speaker 1: world where, you know, cruel things can happen to such very,
39:35
Speaker 1: very good, genuine, wholesome people. So, you know, hug your
39:39
Speaker 1: loved ones. Cancer sucks, and our sincereous condolences go out
39:44
Speaker 1: to Michael Macarelli's friends and family here on Bucko Territory.
39:48
Speaker 1: So he's Platinum Key, He's Josh Harrison, I'm the Ole Ohiles.
39:51
Speaker 1: We're signing off saying thanks for tuning into another episode
39:54
Speaker 1: a Bucko Territory presented to you by the Foul Territory Network.
39:57
Speaker 1: Take Care two, A different, different, different