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Community Pharmacy Freedom, Cash-Based Models & AI-Powered Medication Optimization | TWIRx · Pharmacy Podcast Network

0:05
Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
0:09
Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession. Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
0:39
Speaker 2: Hey, we are here with Rick Seip. He's back on Torx. Rick,
0:43
Speaker 2: it's so good to see you.
0:44
Speaker 1: It's great to be on the program and thanks for
0:46
Speaker 1: coming and visiting us.
0:47
Speaker 2: We get to be at Value Drug Company's headquarters here.
0:53
Speaker 2: It's Duncanville, right?
0:54
Speaker 1: Duncansville, yes.
0:55
Speaker 2: Duncansville.
0:56
Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you here.
0:58
Speaker 2: Well, I got to tour the facilities and I was
1:00
Speaker 2: blown away. The modernization, the automation, the conveyor belts, but
1:06
Speaker 2: as John DeJames said, The cleanliness of this facility is
1:11
Speaker 2: just amazing. And it doesn't, I was talking to Kathy
1:15
Speaker 2: and she said, we're about 10 years old. This place
1:18
Speaker 2: looks brand new.
1:19
Speaker 1: Really appreciate that. The team has a lot of pride
1:22
Speaker 1: in what they do every day, making sure we're supporting
1:25
Speaker 1: our pharmacies. But if you can't keep the warehouse clean,
1:30
Speaker 1: that's the product that are getting into patients' hands. So
1:32
Speaker 1: we're trying to make sure that everything is ready and
1:35
Speaker 1: ready to use for our patients. So.
1:37
Speaker 2: Values drug, value drug companies, your growth is phenomenal. You've
1:45
Speaker 2: reached your 90th year.
1:47
Speaker 1: Yes, we're actually, this is year 93 for us.
1:50
Speaker 2: And the changes from my perspective is pharmacy is going
1:56
Speaker 2: through massive change in and of itself. We're leaning much
1:59
Speaker 2: more into clinical services. We're spending a little bit more
2:02
Speaker 2: time with the clients or the patients that are dealing
2:05
Speaker 2: with our chronic disease states, backing that up with products
2:09
Speaker 2: that are constantly there. Last time you were on Twerks,
2:12
Speaker 2: we were talking about the importance of getting the product,
2:17
Speaker 2: the timeliness of it, the shipping of it. Today, we're
2:20
Speaker 2: going to shift into the same element of change. And
2:25
Speaker 2: some of that change starts falling into that cost plus model.
2:30
Speaker 2: Shout out to Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs and what
2:33
Speaker 2: they've done throughout the nation and bringing attention. Not so
2:36
Speaker 2: much him as a source. That's not where I like
2:40
Speaker 2: to go per se. I'm always about the independent community
2:42
Speaker 2: pharmacy and value drug company. But he brought a lot
2:46
Speaker 2: of attention to the term and people got curious. People
2:51
Speaker 2: started digging in and they realized, holy cow, PBMs and
2:54
Speaker 2: the way that their yesteryear model is now being forced
2:58
Speaker 2: to change because they're just not accepting it. So talk
3:01
Speaker 2: to us about the evolution of how value drug is
3:04
Speaker 2: now that next generation wholesaler, full line wholesaler, and not
3:10
Speaker 2: kind of like the way it was 20, 50 years ago.
3:12
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And we're very proud that we partner with all
3:17
Speaker 1: of our pharmacies and our shareholders and even our non-shareholders.
3:21
Speaker 1: So any independent pharmacy, we're happy to service. But it's
3:24
Speaker 1: not just servicing, it's partnering. And when you're partnering, you
3:29
Speaker 1: need to make sure you understand where they're going and
3:31
Speaker 1: meet them there. So as you mentioned, we're happy, want
3:34
Speaker 1: to make sure the product is getting there securely and
3:37
Speaker 1: without problems and clean. But at the same time, the
3:41
Speaker 1: pricing models are really important as well. So as reimbursement
3:45
Speaker 1: has continued to be less and more restrictive, there's an
3:50
Speaker 1: evolution to cost plus and cost plus pharmacies, especially the
3:54
Speaker 1: pharmacies that just won't accept third party contracts or PBMs.
3:59
Speaker 1: And they're trying to make sure that they can service
4:01
Speaker 1: their patients efficiently, effectively, and have that patient care. And
4:05
Speaker 1: they could do that for minimum cost. And we have
4:08
Speaker 1: two very strong partners out in the Pittsburgh market and
4:11
Speaker 1: Forward RX and Blueberry Pharmacy. And we have been very
4:16
Speaker 1: happy to pilot with them our Cost Plus program for
4:20
Speaker 1: the last several months. We're finishing our pilot here in
4:23
Speaker 1: the next month or so. And then we will be
4:25
Speaker 1: rolling that out to any pharmacy that like to within
4:29
Speaker 1: our area. And really, it's a matter to get them
4:32
Speaker 1: cost of goods, very reasonable for generic products, so they
4:36
Speaker 1: can turn around and then have even more patients to
4:39
Speaker 1: be able to be serviced by them and take care
4:42
Speaker 1: of many of those burdens that they would have otherwise.
4:44
Speaker 1: They don't have to contract with third parties, et cetera.
4:48
Speaker 1: And at that point in time, it's a win-win for
4:51
Speaker 1: them and their pharmacies. They don't have to worry about
4:53
Speaker 1: the issues that they run into with other wholesalers and
4:56
Speaker 1: just eases that burden.
4:59
Speaker 2: There's a freedom in that. The relationship that you have
5:02
Speaker 2: with your patients as an independent community pharmacy, there's freedom
5:06
Speaker 2: just at that starting point. But then when you add
5:09
Speaker 2: into that a cost plus model, you really get to
5:13
Speaker 2: drill down into care much more and you're not being
5:16
Speaker 2: dictated by a formulary. You're not being dictated by pricing changes.
5:20
Speaker 2: I think it's a safer environment in a lot of
5:22
Speaker 2: ways too. More of this information is going to come
5:25
Speaker 2: out of the practice. more pharmacies throughout the nation are
5:29
Speaker 2: moving to cost plus drug. I've talked to several owners
5:33
Speaker 2: throughout the nation who say when they're opening stores that
5:36
Speaker 2: have been closed down based on Rite Aid closing or
5:40
Speaker 2: someone going out of business and they're picking up stores,
5:43
Speaker 2: they're taking a time out and saying, maybe this needs
5:46
Speaker 2: to be my cost plus. And now they have four
5:49
Speaker 2: or five stores in the in the traditional model, and
5:52
Speaker 2: now they have a new store that's coming out in
5:54
Speaker 2: the cost plus model.
5:55
Speaker 1: We see more and more of those type of different,
5:58
Speaker 1: I'll say, classes of trade or subclasses of trade of pharmacies,
6:01
Speaker 1: for sure. And I think you'll see more evolution even
6:04
Speaker 1: in third-party payers as well, going to a cost plus
6:07
Speaker 1: basis in the next probably five years, even for brand
6:10
Speaker 1: products as well. The changes that are happening from regulations
6:13
Speaker 1: from the federal government and making sure that costs are
6:17
Speaker 1: controlled and contained and pulled out of the system really
6:20
Speaker 1: lead to that. But the most important piece is that
6:23
Speaker 1: they're able to care for their patients. Just visited one
6:26
Speaker 1: of those cost plus pharmacies in the last several weeks
6:28
Speaker 1: and talked about really taking care of those patients and
6:33
Speaker 1: talking about them holistically, not just their medication, but nutrition
6:37
Speaker 1: and other areas as well. And that should be really
6:40
Speaker 1: what's happening in that frontline engagement with patients in the pharmacies,
6:44
Speaker 1: because we are really the most readily available provider for healthcare,
6:49
Speaker 1: for patients. And they're taking advantage of it, which is
6:52
Speaker 1: so great to see.
6:53
Speaker 2: And then there's the ability to add on. So as
6:56
Speaker 2: I'm walking through the warehouse and I'm realizing the OTC
7:01
Speaker 2: products that are available, the creativity that your client base
7:05
Speaker 2: could shout out to the rep that is the value
7:09
Speaker 2: drug rep and saying, hey, let's start carrying something on
7:12
Speaker 2: purpose in order to a back-to-school special or something seasonal.
7:19
Speaker 2: But something that's exciting me is with the cost plus
7:21
Speaker 2: drug models, it's going to become the creativity of the
7:25
Speaker 2: owner in DME, for example. And the reason is, is
7:30
Speaker 2: because the element of long-term care pharmacy at home, that's
7:34
Speaker 2: the buzzword right now. And now you can surround them
7:37
Speaker 2: with more than just a product or more than just
7:40
Speaker 2: a medication. So talk to us about the other product
7:43
Speaker 2: portfolio that really complements not only cost plus drugs, but
7:46
Speaker 2: also their element of long-term care at home.
7:49
Speaker 1: Yes, and I couldn't have said any better than what
7:51
Speaker 1: you just did because it's the holistic patient, right? It's
7:54
Speaker 1: not just giving the medication for diabetes or for a
7:57
Speaker 1: cardiovascular issue that someone has. It's anything from an over-the-counter
8:02
Speaker 1: to durable medical equipment, home health care. Those are the
8:06
Speaker 1: items that are also impacted when that wholesaler partnership and
8:10
Speaker 1: relationship with a pharmacy in that cost-plus scenario. Many of
8:13
Speaker 1: those costs that they're used to seeing are different in
8:17
Speaker 1: a cost-plus type of environment. And it allows them to
8:21
Speaker 1: have better products for their patients at a cheaper price
8:25
Speaker 1: and be able to let them treat and have more
8:27
Speaker 1: time with their patients. And then you get to that
8:29
Speaker 1: whole patient. The long-term care at home patient needs some
8:32
Speaker 1: additional assistance. Part of that qualification in that long-term care
8:36
Speaker 1: at home setting really leads you to have a more
8:42
Speaker 1: diverse portfolio to care for them. and to let their
8:46
Speaker 1: families know, because often it's not just the patient, it's
8:48
Speaker 1: other caregivers, and it puts their mind at ease that
8:51
Speaker 1: the pharmacy really can give everything they can to them.
8:54
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that we have is
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Speaker 1: a full portfolio, all the durable medical equipment, products that
9:00
Speaker 1: they would need, or home health care, et cetera.
9:04
Speaker 2: All right, and then part of that long-term care pharmacy
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Speaker 2: at home, we're crossing into the element and we're starting
9:10
Speaker 2: to see reimbursement for remote patient monitoring. And blood pressure
9:15
Speaker 2: cuffs and things that are kind of tied into that.
9:17
Speaker 2: Talk to us about some of the technology products that
9:19
Speaker 2: you actually are having too.
9:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
9:21
Speaker 1: So we continue, we have our pharmacy strategy team. And
9:25
Speaker 1: so we have a team of pharmacists. I know you
9:27
Speaker 1: mentioned John and there's Sydney and Nicole also on our
9:30
Speaker 1: teams because those are things, those are folks that we
9:33
Speaker 1: want to help to support our pharmacy partners with. And
9:37
Speaker 1: we continue to bring our partners, not only our team members,
9:41
Speaker 1: but our partners to Outside of value drug as well
9:44
Speaker 1: and bringing them forward to allow those different types of
9:49
Speaker 1: initiatives forward. So RPM continues to be a focus for us.
9:52
Speaker 1: We're bringing other partnerships forward to our pharmacies. And we
9:57
Speaker 1: see that that is really just an avenue for the future.
10:00
Speaker 1: And it's not only just that direct patient, but it's
10:03
Speaker 1: also collaboration with their provider as well. And those are
10:06
Speaker 1: billable events that then helps in the overall profitability and
10:10
Speaker 1: care for a patient. So that patient now is more
10:13
Speaker 1: than just that atenolol prescription or that diabetes medication. It's
10:17
Speaker 1: their holistic, how is their blood pressure, how is their diabetes,
10:21
Speaker 1: and making sure that you can pick up on things
10:23
Speaker 1: that could help with their outcomes. And at the end
10:26
Speaker 1: of the day, we're all in this industry, or hopefully
10:28
Speaker 1: we're all in this industry. One is there's some profitability,
10:31
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, you're hopefully here
10:33
Speaker 1: to help to care for the patient. And we can
10:35
Speaker 1: be a partner with them to bring forward those services
10:38
Speaker 1: to help them care for their patient.
10:40
Speaker 2: And you have to be. This isn't the way it
10:42
Speaker 2: was when I entered pharmacy. 2004, goodness gracious, 22 years.
10:48
Speaker 2: I'm getting old, Rick. And you know what makes me
10:50
Speaker 2: really feel old is Kyle McCormick and Brandon Antonopoulos make
10:55
Speaker 2: me feel old because I remember when they were P2s
10:58
Speaker 2: and I met them first time at one of the
11:01
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Pharmacists Association annual meetings and Brandon and both Brandon
11:07
Speaker 2: and Kyle were so aggressive about patient care and they
11:10
Speaker 2: were creative and they had these ideas and both of
11:14
Speaker 2: those servant leaders have transformed an idea at a student
11:20
Speaker 2: level to a business model that they're running right now.
11:24
Speaker 2: And to back that up with a wholesaler that can
11:26
Speaker 2: keep up with those kinds of changes, it's a must.
11:30
Speaker 1: It has to be partnership. And really, it's that collaboration
11:34
Speaker 1: of coming together and seeing that next generation come forward
11:38
Speaker 1: is just so exciting. Both of them are future leaders
11:42
Speaker 1: of the Pennsylvania Pharmacists Association. And I won't say future,
11:45
Speaker 1: but current. And then going to be taking the leadership
11:49
Speaker 1: reins is really exciting. And to see how does that change?
11:53
Speaker 4: How does that.
11:53
Speaker 1: Transform what we do in the state from advocacy from
11:57
Speaker 1: within the state and really just changing pharmacy practice? And
12:02
Speaker 1: their ideas, as you said, as it was nurtured as
12:04
Speaker 1: students and then allowed to grow is really making an
12:09
Speaker 1: impact in their communities. And you could see it. You
12:10
Speaker 1: could see it as people walk in off the street.
12:13
Speaker 1: and walk into their pharmacies. And that's so exciting. And
12:16
Speaker 1: it's exciting to be a partner with them to help
12:18
Speaker 1: them in that process. It kind of, it gives you
12:21
Speaker 1: some pride, but you don't own it. They own it
12:23
Speaker 1: and they've done such a great job and you just
12:25
Speaker 1: want to be there to help them through the process.
12:27
Speaker 1: And it's exciting to let us change to evolve with that.
12:31
Speaker 1: Just like they've, they've started that evolution and, and you're
12:34
Speaker 1: a part of that too. And having those conversations and
12:37
Speaker 1: bringing these topics forward is really important because that's how
12:41
Speaker 1: we change the profession. And changing the profession and evolving
12:44
Speaker 1: it is critical. I remember literally manual claim forms within
12:49
Speaker 1: my time as being a pharmacist. And we're so far
12:52
Speaker 1: away from that, it's not even funny. So it's so
12:54
Speaker 1: exciting to see and see pharmacists having the interaction that
12:57
Speaker 1: they're having, like what you're talking about, remote patient monitoring,
13:00
Speaker 1: is something that was never dreamed of or really done.
13:03
Speaker 4: So it's exciting.
13:04
Speaker 1: Thanks for bringing that up.
13:05
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And I like the fact that you're right there.
13:08
Speaker 2: It's not something that your clientele and your customers have
13:11
Speaker 2: to say, hey, value drug company, you think you could
13:14
Speaker 2: get into, uh-uh, you're already in it and you're ready
13:17
Speaker 2: to go.
13:17
Speaker 1: And that's our goal. Our goal is to hopefully get
13:21
Speaker 1: ahead of them so we have things prepared. And there
13:23
Speaker 1: are some times where, you know what, we're not, but
13:25
Speaker 1: you want to listen to them. And we're happy if
13:28
Speaker 1: someone wants to bring something to us, we're happy to
13:30
Speaker 1: work with them because you want to figure out a
13:32
Speaker 1: way to say yes, not a way to say no.
13:35
Speaker 1: So hopefully we can say yes as many times as
13:38
Speaker 1: we can and be that good business partner.
13:41
Speaker 2: Hey, Rick Seip with Value Drug Company. We'll be back
13:45
Speaker 2: on Twerks. We're going to be talking about, what's that
13:47
Speaker 2: next subject we're going to be on?
13:49
Speaker 1: I think just expansion.
13:50
Speaker 4: Expansion.
13:51
Speaker 1: Being able to help in those different areas and expanding
13:55
Speaker 1: what we're learning here and going into other areas.
13:56
Speaker 3: Of the country.
13:57
Speaker 2: Tune in next time on This Week in Pharmacy with
14:01
Speaker 2: Rick Seip and the Value Drug Company here on Twerks
14:04
Speaker 2: and the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
14:06
Speaker 1: Thank you.
14:06
Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
14:07
Speaker 5: Your patients need convenient and cost-efficient healthcare, and in the
14:11
Speaker 5: increasingly competitive pharmacy environment, independent pharmacies shouldn't have to struggle.
14:16
Speaker 5: That's where Value Drug Company steps in. At Value Drug,
14:21
Speaker 5: we treat our members like family, providing first-rate, personalized service
14:25
Speaker 5: and the support they deserve. While you provide exceptional care
14:28
Speaker 5: for your patients, we provide you comprehensive solutions to help
14:32
Speaker 5: you become efficient, productive, and profitable. We offer online ordering
14:37
Speaker 5: and mobile capabilities with our state-of-the-art distribution center to maintain
14:41
Speaker 5: quality and control. We help your community pharmacy get connected
14:45
Speaker 5: to the right service providers and access your market. And
14:48
Speaker 5: we don't stop there. Learn more about how Value Drug
14:51
Speaker 5: can help your pharmacy thrive at valuedrugco.com. That's valuedrugco.com. Value
14:59
Speaker 5: Drug Company is a proud sponsor of the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
15:08
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back to This Week in Pharmacy. There is
15:11
Speaker 2: a pharmacist out there that I've, I guess you could
15:14
Speaker 2: say I'm a little bit of a stalker, not a
15:17
Speaker 2: dangerous stalker per se, someone that really admires what pharmacists
15:21
Speaker 2: are doing, entrepreneurial pharmacists. And I ran into Yuna Kim
15:28
Speaker 2: years ago, 2019. And I think Yuna was with Proteus
15:33
Speaker 2: at the time, which was so innovative and it was fascinating.
15:37
Speaker 2: But then all of a sudden, when I was following
15:39
Speaker 2: her on LinkedIn, she was a founder of Areen. And
15:44
Speaker 2: now I get an opportunity to bring her on to
15:47
Speaker 2: Twerks and to feature her in her work. And also,
15:50
Speaker 2: I get two for the price of one.
15:54
Speaker 3: Dr.
15:54
Speaker 2: Jenny Behan is with us as well. Welcome to Twerks,
15:58
Speaker 2: Jenny and Yuna.
15:59
Speaker 3: How are you?
15:59
Speaker 4: Good. Thank you for having us, Todd. You know, I've
16:02
Speaker 4: also been stalking you and your podcast.
16:04
Speaker 3: So the feeling is mutual.
16:06
Speaker 4: And we are so happy to be here. I'm especially
16:09
Speaker 4: happy to be here with one of our lead pharmacists, Jenny,
16:14
Speaker 4: who can really outline what impact we're having on patient lives.
16:19
Speaker 6: I am super excited, Todd. Again, I've been with the
16:25
Speaker 6: company for almost six years now, so watched a lot
16:27
Speaker 6: of it being built from the ground up and we
16:29
Speaker 6: continue to expand into new areas of pharmacy and have
16:35
Speaker 6: new improved impacts on our patients. And again, the goal
16:39
Speaker 6: is always to make the experience of working with patients
16:42
Speaker 6: easier and honestly more joyful for our pharmacists and our practitioners.
16:48
Speaker 6: So I'm very, very excited. Kind of how you have
16:51
Speaker 6: expanded with your podcast. It's just exciting to watch the journey.
16:56
Speaker 3: Yes.
16:57
Speaker 2: And if you would have said these things 10, 15
17:01
Speaker 2: years ago, it would have been like you had two
17:04
Speaker 2: heads and four eyes and people would have looked at
17:07
Speaker 2: you strange. They would have tried to push you into
17:11
Speaker 2: the MTM box. They would have tried to stuff you
17:15
Speaker 2: in medication therapy management. And we know now today with
17:18
Speaker 2: specialty rare disease and things that are happening in people's lives,
17:22
Speaker 2: the expense of guessing, God bless our physicians, but throwing
17:28
Speaker 2: darts at a dartboard with a blindfold on trying to
17:32
Speaker 2: think of, you know, how is this medication going to
17:35
Speaker 2: work and how long are we going to give it
17:36
Speaker 2: to titrate or get into their system and metabolize the
17:39
Speaker 2: right way and blah, blah, blah. So to be able
17:42
Speaker 2: to reduce hospital admissions by 40%, being able to drill
17:47
Speaker 2: down into the complex disease states and mitigating risk. This
17:52
Speaker 2: is a mission, Una, that you had in mind and
17:55
Speaker 2: it was in your heart. And I think that's what's
17:58
Speaker 2: happening to pharmacy care is the cream of the crop
18:03
Speaker 2: pharmacists are bubbling up and they're saying, time out. This
18:06
Speaker 2: is not about getting the medication as quickly as possible
18:10
Speaker 2: to the patient, just for getting it to their into
18:14
Speaker 2: their system for that sake, it's actually taking a little
18:17
Speaker 2: bit of a pause and saying, why did we go
18:19
Speaker 2: to school in the first place to become pharmacists? Yuna,
18:23
Speaker 2: give our listeners a little overview of the organization and
18:27
Speaker 2: your dream.
18:29
Speaker 4: So Todd, you're spot on. Irene's mission is to ensure
18:33
Speaker 4: a safe and effective medication therapy. So going right back
18:36
Speaker 4: to the core and the Hippocratic Oath that we take
18:39
Speaker 4: in pharmacy school, And the way that we do that
18:42
Speaker 4: is through our medication intelligence platform that can take in
18:46
Speaker 4: all available data and turn it into actionable recommendations around
18:50
Speaker 4: who needs a medication change and what should that right
18:53
Speaker 4: drug and dose be in order to improve patient lives
18:58
Speaker 4: and ensure that they are living the healthiest lives possible.
19:03
Speaker 4: From our customer perspective, who are payers and the risk-bearing providers,
19:07
Speaker 4: this means that they do see a reduction in utilization
19:10
Speaker 4: and a reduction in total.
19:12
Speaker 3: Cost of care as a result.
19:13
Speaker 4: So it is a way to provide more care and
19:18
Speaker 4: at the same time save healthcare dollars and create a
19:21
Speaker 4: more sustainable system. So extremely passionate about what we're doing.
19:25
Speaker 4: At Proteus, as you know, we're focused on medication adherence.
19:30
Speaker 4: And being there, I started to ask myself, And back then,
19:35
Speaker 4: everybody was focused on adherence and dispensing and delivery solutions.
19:40
Speaker 4: But nobody was focused.
19:41
Speaker 3: On the core root.
19:42
Speaker 4: Is it the safest and most effective one? So that's
19:45
Speaker 4: where we wanted to put our focus and solve that
19:48
Speaker 4: core root problem.
19:51
Speaker 2: Jenny, you get out of pharmacy school, you're thinking, hey,
19:56
Speaker 2: what do I want to do now that I have
19:58
Speaker 2: this extremely expensive degree? You get beat up in retail
20:04
Speaker 2: for a while, but that's so necessary to really connect
20:06
Speaker 2: with patients and understand so much of the mix of
20:10
Speaker 2: what's happening in healthcare and how much of a messed
20:14
Speaker 2: up jigsaw puzzle it can be. And these patients will
20:18
Speaker 2: look you in the face and not really even understand
20:21
Speaker 2: why they're taking medication or what they're doing. So this
20:24
Speaker 2: platform that's been built out, talk to us from your
20:26
Speaker 2: perception and your perspective, you know, what this means for
20:30
Speaker 2: patient care.
20:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, Todd, I think that's such a great call out.
20:34
Speaker 6: And I did start in retail, actually, even before I
20:37
Speaker 6: went to pharmacy school. I was a technician and I
20:41
Speaker 6: loved the work and definitely saw like, hey, these pharmacists
20:45
Speaker 6: want to spend time talking to a patient.
20:48
Speaker 2: But.
20:49
Speaker 6: There's a big red X flashing on their screen that
20:52
Speaker 6: they're not going fast enough and their assembly line has
20:55
Speaker 6: slowed down. And that's one of the outcomes that, again,
20:58
Speaker 6: retail is looking for.
20:59
Speaker 3: And we need our retail pharmacists. Right.
21:00
Speaker 6: They still are some of the most trusted professionals. And
21:04
Speaker 6: I did love my my rotation in retail. After that,
21:07
Speaker 6: I was in substance use and mental health with the
21:10
Speaker 6: Department of Public Health for many years. And that was
21:13
Speaker 6: an absolutely enlightening journey that has helped me out a
21:17
Speaker 6: ream because what I really noted is, you know, you
21:21
Speaker 6: talked about the speed.
21:21
Speaker 3: Of the prescription getting in the hands of the patient. Right.
21:24
Speaker 6: And there's the speed. But there's also the knowledge gap.
21:29
Speaker 6: So why am I picking up another prescription? And then
21:32
Speaker 6: there's many, many patients that the prescriptions are just sitting
21:35
Speaker 6: in their closet or they're picking and choosing when they're
21:38
Speaker 6: going to take them. And so what I love about
21:41
Speaker 6: ARENE is we're diving in, calling these patients. Our platform
21:47
Speaker 6: is kind of presenting patients. It could be a sentinel event.
21:50
Speaker 6: It could be it's looking at labs and things are
21:53
Speaker 6: going in the wrong direction. And you're getting the patient
21:56
Speaker 6: at the right time and able to spend time diving
22:01
Speaker 6: into kind of the meat of what's going on. How
22:04
Speaker 6: is this medication working for you? That shared decision making
22:08
Speaker 6: is such a important piece.
22:10
Speaker 3: Of getting a patient on the right medication. Right.
22:13
Speaker 6: And sometimes they're at a doctor's visit. starting a new
22:17
Speaker 6: medication or getting a new diagnosis. And that is a
22:23
Speaker 6: very time pressured scenario. And they walk out of that
22:26
Speaker 6: appointment and they're not sure what the impact of the
22:28
Speaker 6: medication is. So having a platform that highlights, again, impactful
22:34
Speaker 6: medications and highlights the full picture. We can see a
22:38
Speaker 6: lot of medical claims, hospitalizations, what's going on with this patient,
22:43
Speaker 6: how has their health been changing over time? And it's
22:46
Speaker 6: really packaged for us to highlight, here's some areas of
22:49
Speaker 6: concern that we need to dive in with the patient.
22:53
Speaker 6: that opens up time to give the patient a chance
22:56
Speaker 6: to also talk about their concerns. Because I know if
22:59
Speaker 6: you've ever been in like a busy visit with a
23:01
Speaker 6: patient reviewing something, you have your own agenda. And then
23:04
Speaker 6: if you're digging through and trying to document, it's really
23:07
Speaker 6: taking away time from the patient experience.
23:10
Speaker 3: So I think that's what I love about Aurene.
23:14
Speaker 6: Its platform is really built to Take the pressure off
23:18
Speaker 6: the clinician of the documentation, of writing out your recommendations.
23:24
Speaker 6: It has a lot of canned kind of recommendations that
23:29
Speaker 6: are ready to go in patient and provider language. And
23:33
Speaker 6: then it gives you back the time by highlighting needs.
23:35
Speaker 6: And if it's not the patient's goal, right, you kind
23:38
Speaker 6: of have a prioritized list of like, okay, this is
23:40
Speaker 6: not the patient's goal right now.
23:42
Speaker 3: Their diabetes is very....
23:45
Speaker 6: Out of control they have an a1c of 11 but
23:47
Speaker 6: right now their phq9 is through the roof and their
23:51
Speaker 6: depression is what their main focus is so uh it's
23:55
Speaker 6: it's very helpful for allowing us to kind of navigate.
23:58
Speaker 3: Through that.
24:02
Speaker 2: Yuna um i think of what makes sense and like
24:06
Speaker 2: i said back up 10 15 years ago and you
24:11
Speaker 2: you know they look at you strange and what are
24:12
Speaker 2: you talking about but now payers are looking for you.
24:17
Speaker 2: And they're like, this has to make sense. These medications
24:20
Speaker 2: are expensive. The insurance has gone through the roof. If
24:24
Speaker 2: it doesn't align, if it doesn't work, if it's not helping,
24:28
Speaker 2: then why are we doing it? You had some massive success.
24:33
Speaker 2: I want to just give a shout out. Irene secured
24:36
Speaker 2: 30 million CRC raised for AI-based medication optimization platform. However,
24:43
Speaker 2: You did not release the genie out of the bottle.
24:46
Speaker 2: The genie I'm talking about is AI, the craziness of
24:49
Speaker 2: AI right now. You built the system first and then
24:53
Speaker 2: you brought AI into it. And by the way, that's
24:56
Speaker 2: my roots is pharmacy management software and all of those
25:01
Speaker 2: organizations that are out there that are racing to get attention, AI,
25:05
Speaker 2: AI over here, AI over there. That's great. But if
25:08
Speaker 2: you don't do thing meticulously and set some foundations and
25:11
Speaker 2: you start trying to build it from an AI perspective first,
25:15
Speaker 2: and I think in my opinion, it's the wrong way
25:17
Speaker 2: to go for cybersecurity and for HIPAA and for issues
25:21
Speaker 2: of API integration. So you set this up, this powerful
25:25
Speaker 2: system first, and now all of a sudden you're starting
25:28
Speaker 2: to wrap AI into it. So talk to our listeners
25:30
Speaker 2: about how that has made a huge impact, especially with
25:34
Speaker 2: connections to these payers.
25:37
Speaker 3: Sure, sure.
25:38
Speaker 4: So first, shout out to the pharmacists because the pharmacists
25:41
Speaker 4: were very instrumental in helping to develop our platform. So
25:46
Speaker 4: we've employed pharmacists from day one. They've been on the
25:49
Speaker 4: product development side, on the tech side, and then also
25:52
Speaker 4: on the clinical care side where Jenny sits. And by
25:56
Speaker 4: having our own clinical care team, that essentially functions as
25:59
Speaker 4: our R & D lab. we can ensure that our
26:03
Speaker 4: platform is surfacing the right information so pharmacists can provide
26:06
Speaker 4: the best clinical care and work at the top of
26:08
Speaker 4: their license. The foundation of ARENE, it's a data platform
26:13
Speaker 4: at its core. So our goal is to surface really
26:18
Speaker 4: meaningful insights, again, on proper medication use and the medication recommendations.
26:23
Speaker 4: So from the beginning, we were using things like machine
26:26
Speaker 4: learning models to identify the right patients to target. And
26:29
Speaker 4: then we have our recommendation models, which look at the
26:32
Speaker 4: full patient picture. What medications have been tried and failed
26:34
Speaker 4: in the past? What are the comorbidities? What are the
26:37
Speaker 4: social demographic characteristics in order for us to really surface
26:42
Speaker 4: very targeted recommendation given that patient's circumstances? Now that we
26:48
Speaker 4: set all of that foundation, we have added other elements
26:53
Speaker 4: now of Gen AI, So now we have AI agents
26:57
Speaker 4: who are making calls to pharmacies to identify where prescription
27:04
Speaker 4: status help patients facilitate refills, take away that extra step.
27:09
Speaker 4: We also have ambient listening within our platform as well. This, again,
27:14
Speaker 4: auto takes notes for the clinicians like Jenny. automatically creates
27:19
Speaker 4: next best action. And then from an intelligence perspective, what
27:23
Speaker 4: it allows us to do is really hear the patient conversation,
27:26
Speaker 4: identify patient sentiment, other needs that the patient is expressing
27:30
Speaker 4: about their medications. And we can actually feed that into
27:34
Speaker 4: our learning models so that we can continuously improve and
27:37
Speaker 4: personalize our recommendations. So we see it as a additional
27:41
Speaker 4: tool that allows us to actually achieve better outcomes more
27:46
Speaker 4: efficiently and effectively. But certainly AI has to come with
27:50
Speaker 4: its guardrails. And that's where we have the clinician testers.
27:55
Speaker 4: We have an AI governance committee in-house. And at the
27:59
Speaker 4: end of the day, we are an outcomes-focused company. So
28:04
Speaker 4: we know that our solution is working when we can
28:07
Speaker 4: keep patients out of the hospital and And when we
28:09
Speaker 4: can reduce total cost of care and when we can
28:12
Speaker 4: improve quality of care.
28:13
Speaker 6: I have to say, Todd, like because from a user experience, right,
28:18
Speaker 6: there's this unit talking about our ambient listening tool that's
28:23
Speaker 6: kind of documenting for the provider.
28:25
Speaker 3: And we see this in a lot of health care
28:26
Speaker 3: systems now.
28:27
Speaker 5: Right.
28:27
Speaker 3: I know Kaiser's. using one and the provider will say, hey,
28:30
Speaker 3: is it okay with you if I use this and
28:33
Speaker 3: help me take notes? And then they're looking at you
28:35
Speaker 3: the whole time.
28:35
Speaker 6: And so the first time I had someone using AI
28:38
Speaker 6: in a live setting, I was like, wow, this is bizarre.
28:41
Speaker 6: Like the doctor is looking at me and speaking. And
28:44
Speaker 6: there's been many times, right, where their back is to
28:46
Speaker 6: you and they're taking notes. And there's so much literature
28:49
Speaker 6: on how interruptions there are just in the way we
28:56
Speaker 6: currently think and learn. Even the buzzing of a phone
28:59
Speaker 6: or looking at a phone can totally interrupt your flow.
29:02
Speaker 6: And so from the user side, what they're able to
29:07
Speaker 6: do is focus on the patient.
29:10
Speaker 3: And that is, I feel like a game changer for Right.
29:14
Speaker 6: Like I don't know any clinician that would ever tell you, hey, Todd,
29:17
Speaker 6: I love documenting.
29:19
Speaker 3: That's my favorite part.
29:20
Speaker 6: I think that's where everybody just gets very bogged down
29:25
Speaker 6: in health care. So having a system that can help
29:28
Speaker 6: you write follow up notes. So whoever takes, you know,
29:32
Speaker 6: the patient calls in and you're not available and they see, hey,
29:34
Speaker 6: here's what Jenny and, you know, Todd talked about.
29:37
Speaker 3: And here was Todd's goals.
29:40
Speaker 6: So I can just go in quickly and ask about that.
29:43
Speaker 3: And yeah, and that.
29:45
Speaker 6: Hands-free focus on the patient, you lose insights when you're
29:48
Speaker 6: trying to note take and also pay attention to someone.
29:51
Speaker 6: So it It's been a big win, and our clinicians
29:54
Speaker 6: have really embraced, thank you, the way we're going to
29:57
Speaker 6: drive outcomes and do even better shared decision-making and listen
30:02
Speaker 6: for sentiment cues at a more heightened level is to
30:07
Speaker 6: take some of this pressure off the clinician to be
30:10
Speaker 6: doing too many things at the same time.
30:11
Speaker 2: Jenny, I show up at graduation day in 2012, University
30:17
Speaker 2: of California, San Francisco School of Pharmacy. And I come
30:20
Speaker 2: up to you, you got your cap and gown on.
30:22
Speaker 2: And I say, I know this is going to sound crazy, Jenny,
30:25
Speaker 2: but I'm from the future. And you're going to use
30:28
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence to help manage very complex, rare diseases. And
30:34
Speaker 2: you won't necessarily be dispensing anything. How crazy would you
30:40
Speaker 2: think I was standing there before you?
30:44
Speaker 6: Pretty crazy, Todd, I would say. Todd from the future.
30:48
Speaker 6: I think that sounds like a beautiful future, but I
30:51
Speaker 6: don't know if I trust it. And still everybody are like, AI,
30:54
Speaker 6: what do you mean it's going.
30:55
Speaker 3: To help me? And it's, like I said, a game changer.
31:00
Speaker 6: You're in there using your skills, communicating back and forth
31:03
Speaker 6: with the patient with full focus.
31:06
Speaker 3: And I absolutely love it.
31:08
Speaker 6: And I can't say enough, Todd, you mentioned earlier, like, hey,
31:12
Speaker 6: you have to be very careful about AI.
31:14
Speaker 3: And we have students coming in.
31:16
Speaker 6: You just very supportive of like, get our newest people
31:19
Speaker 6: in so they can see where.
31:20
Speaker 3: The industry is going. And they are very quick to
31:25
Speaker 3: use Dr. Google. and the AI answers.
31:29
Speaker 6: And I have them do some exercises of change your
31:32
Speaker 6: tone because what you'll see if you change your question
31:35
Speaker 6: is Dr. Google and some AI tools will come back
31:39
Speaker 6: and give you the answer that it thinks you're looking for.
31:42
Speaker 6: And so I love that about our platform that we
31:45
Speaker 6: can trust it. It's constantly being updated by real guidelines
31:50
Speaker 6: and by the amazing team of clinical pharmacists and specialists
31:53
Speaker 6: that UNA.
31:54
Speaker 3: Has put together.
31:56
Speaker 2: You know, our pharmacy technicians have come a long way,
32:00
Speaker 2: just as our pharmacists have. And if we have a 15-,
32:04
Speaker 2: 20-year pharmacy technician veteran that's doing some pre-work, maybe order
32:10
Speaker 2: entry or something in order to prepare something, helping to
32:13
Speaker 2: jettison a prescription or care plan in process, it still
32:19
Speaker 2: comes back to the licensed pharmacist to do the due
32:22
Speaker 2: diligence and to do everything that they would to double
32:25
Speaker 2: check and triple check the safety, the drug drug, the allergies,
32:30
Speaker 2: the labs, everything that comes in. That's the whole purpose.
32:33
Speaker 2: So AI is no different, in my opinion.
32:36
Speaker 3: It's a tool.
32:37
Speaker 2: It's not anything that's to be relied on as the end-all, be-all.
32:40
Speaker 2: It always comes back to the pharmacist. So talk to
32:43
Speaker 2: us about practicing at the top of your license and
32:47
Speaker 2: how AI can become a powerful tool, but it's always
32:50
Speaker 2: going to come back to the pharmacist's decisions.
32:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. You know, as Jenny mentioned, that shared decision
32:58
Speaker 4: making between a patient and a clinician, a pharmacist is
33:02
Speaker 4: so important in understanding their.
33:04
Speaker 3: Goals of therapy.
33:06
Speaker 4: So AI is a tool in that it can remove
33:09
Speaker 4: some of the administrative tasks from a clinician's plate. And
33:12
Speaker 4: in fact, we actually employ pharmacy technicians, too. So our
33:15
Speaker 4: goal is to use every care team member at the
33:18
Speaker 4: top of their license. And our workflow engine will automatically
33:22
Speaker 4: create tasks for the appropriate care team member. So if
33:26
Speaker 4: it is seen in a pharmacy technician conversation, we hear
33:30
Speaker 4: from that ambient listening that there is a clinical need
33:33
Speaker 4: and some sort of counseling point that the pharmacist needs
33:36
Speaker 4: to convey or dive deeper into, there is an automatic
33:39
Speaker 4: task from there that will be created for the pharmacist
33:43
Speaker 4: to follow up. So that workflow cue is, again, meant
33:46
Speaker 4: to guide who's the right care team member for that intervention.
33:51
Speaker 4: And then tools like ambient listening help generate that next
33:54
Speaker 4: best action. So the right care team member from there
33:57
Speaker 4: intervenes with the patient. And yes, ultimately, it is the
34:02
Speaker 4: clinician's choice as to what recommendations to finalize and send
34:07
Speaker 4: directly from our platform. It's the pharmacist's choice.
34:11
Speaker 6: It's so important, and we really discuss that all the
34:15
Speaker 6: time with our clinicians, that AI will never replace you.
34:19
Speaker 6: It's actually here to support you.
34:22
Speaker 3: Like Una said, take administrative burden off.
34:25
Speaker 6: It may be you know, bubbling up a recommendation based
34:29
Speaker 6: on what, you know, it's learning about the patient and
34:33
Speaker 6: kind of the whole host of inputs that it takes
34:37
Speaker 6: into consideration. And then it's presenting it to the pharmacist,
34:40
Speaker 6: but it's still ultimately going to be based on their
34:43
Speaker 6: critical thinking, partnership with the patient, and it will present
34:46
Speaker 6: the guidelines.
34:47
Speaker 3: So it's like, hey, here it is. This is where
34:49
Speaker 3: I'm getting this from.
34:51
Speaker 6: And if the pharmacist is comfortable, that makes sense to them,
34:53
Speaker 6: then that's a recommendation they will send.
34:55
Speaker 3: And if it doesn't, then they go ahead and they,
34:58
Speaker 3: you know, they decline.
35:01
Speaker 6: And so we're collecting that data to kind of how
35:03
Speaker 6: it gets smarter on like what clinicians are accepting and declining.
35:06
Speaker 3: But it's very important. I don't think we can say
35:09
Speaker 3: it enough.
35:10
Speaker 6: Like the pharmacist, the individual who's taking care of the patient,
35:14
Speaker 6: they're not being replaced by AI and it will never
35:17
Speaker 6: be 100 percent correct.
35:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Jenny, you bring up an important aspect of
35:22
Speaker 4: our platform as well, the learning loop, the adaptive learning loop.
35:25
Speaker 3: So as we learn, again, which.
35:28
Speaker 4: Recommendations are accepted and implemented and then ultimately improve patient outcomes,
35:33
Speaker 4: that's being fed back to both our models to select
35:38
Speaker 4: which patients need interventions and also our recommendation models. So
35:42
Speaker 4: it leads to continuous learning and improvement. You know, one
35:47
Speaker 4: saying we always repeat constantly to ourselves at Aurene is
35:52
Speaker 4: that it's not what AI does. It's what outcomes AI delivers.
35:57
Speaker 4: And that is important to our core and important to
36:01
Speaker 4: our mission.
36:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, and Todd, some of what it's doing is not
36:05
Speaker 6: just a recommendation, right? Like, for example, we have very
36:11
Speaker 6: quick kind of feedback loops, which is really helpful for
36:13
Speaker 6: our clinicians. So when we get a new population, our
36:17
Speaker 6: clinician team is kind of inputting information based on barriers
36:21
Speaker 6: they're seeing.
36:22
Speaker 3: And then we're getting the.
36:23
Speaker 6: Feedback of, okay, in this specific population, they're reporting costs
36:29
Speaker 6: as a barrier to X, Y, and Z medication. And
36:32
Speaker 6: then we can kind of pivot and have our clinicians
36:35
Speaker 6: directly address that in a different way.
36:37
Speaker 3: And they and.
36:38
Speaker 6: What's great is we get to do a lot of
36:41
Speaker 6: testing of, OK, how do we get patients to open
36:44
Speaker 6: up more if they're not comfortable talking about costs? But
36:46
Speaker 6: we definitely see that as a barrier. How can we
36:49
Speaker 6: change the way we open them up or we dialogue?
36:53
Speaker 6: And when we start getting better outcomes, sharing that through
36:56
Speaker 6: our platform. So it's not always clinical recommendations. It's also
37:01
Speaker 6: like learning about like what are the specific barriers and
37:04
Speaker 6: how do we address them for very individualized populations and
37:09
Speaker 6: health care plans.
37:10
Speaker 2: So I want to give a shout out to your
37:13
Speaker 2: team you should be very proud of yourselves for three
37:16
Speaker 2: years in a row you have been voted into the
37:21
Speaker 2: inc 5000 this is a prestigious award that's well known
37:24
Speaker 2: throughout the united states and how very very few companies
37:31
Speaker 2: can make it to this list and then on top
37:34
Speaker 2: of that the success that you've had uh una for
37:38
Speaker 2: once again three consecutive years i just want to say
37:40
Speaker 2: congratulations Thank you.
37:43
Speaker 4: We feel very privileged and grateful. And at the end
37:47
Speaker 4: of the day, really our most important customer is the patient.
37:50
Speaker 4: So I think if we continue to focus there, then
37:54
Speaker 4: the rest will come.
37:56
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
37:57
Speaker 2: Hey, if you'd like to learn more about Irene, please
38:01
Speaker 2: check them out at A-R-I-N-E. That's A-R-I-N-E dot I-O. Once again,
38:09
Speaker 2: Irene dot I-O. Promise me, Jenny and Yuna, that you'll
38:13
Speaker 2: come back to Twerks. Let's bring a payer with us.
38:17
Speaker 2: Let's bring a scientist or someone in labs and let's
38:20
Speaker 2: start digging into maybe some specific examples of how this
38:25
Speaker 2: system is moving pharmacy care very much further into the
38:29
Speaker 2: future and what we need and also expanding what pharmacists
38:34
Speaker 2: really want when they come out of pharmacy school. our
38:36
Speaker 2: new PharmDs. Some of them don't want to be in retail.
38:40
Speaker 2: Some of them don't want to necessarily go to health system.
38:43
Speaker 2: They'd much rather be working in the consultative space and
38:47
Speaker 2: certainly embracing technology. So thank you both for being on
38:52
Speaker 2: This Week in Pharmacy.
38:54
Speaker 3: Thank you.
38:54
Speaker 4: We'll be back.
38:55
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. That's awesome.
38:58
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for twerking with us. Hey, listeners,
39:02
Speaker 2: we appreciate you. Hope you had a great week. This
39:05
Speaker 2: was Twerk's for August 28th. I cannot believe that we're
39:09
Speaker 2: almost to September. 2026 is going fast. Continue to do
39:15
Speaker 2: what you do. Love every one of you out there, pharmacists,
39:19
Speaker 2: pharmacy technicians. Tune in next week for more twerks.