Latest / Financial Survival Network / The Credit Bust is Here -- Gordon T. Long #5809

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The Credit Bust is Here -- Gordon T. Long #5809 · Financial Survival Network

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Rates may come down in some trading function. The longer term is there because
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of repricing of risk. And if the fete wants to do it, he'll
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kill a dollar and maybe they'll sacrifice the dollar they bring. If they charge
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down these rates, inflation will be back because it takes a while to kill
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it. And if inflation comes back, what are they going to do?
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And if they drive them down, the dollar will go down and they don't
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want that. You're listening to carry Lets's Financial Survival Network where you get valuable
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information you just can't find anywhere else to thrive in today's trying times. You
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need the Financial Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survival and
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Network dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network now
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more than ever. And welcome you are watching listening to the Financial Survival Network.
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I'm your host, Harry Lutz. Well, we've got Gordon too Long
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on with us now. Gordon, we've been talking about collateral, the quality
1:00
of collateral, or what the banks will take, what the federal take,
1:04
and why you should care about it basically, and we're having this banking crisis,
1:11
banking collapse. U. Some of my guests say that the banking system
1:15
as we know it is going extinct. This is an extinction event or the
1:21
system. What is your take on it. I would lean towards what they're
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what they're saying. I'm not maybe it quite as negative that, but this
1:30
is an unusual situation that we're in and it keeps cascading, and it's like
1:37
shocks and shock waves that are that are coming at us. So we're still
1:41
in the early stages. Off you and you would call two thousand and eight
1:45
when we first when when bear Stearns hit. We went on for close to
1:48
a year with little failures all of the lending operation before finally Lehman collapsed and
1:53
AIG was collapsed and we but it just kept getting worse and worse and then
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suddenly collapse. It's like uh uh famous writer in a prin Key West,
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he said, you know, going bankruptcy. Bankruptcy was was slow at first
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and then sudden at last, or suddenly and first then quickly and then quick
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that and and that's kind of what I sense. We're it's going the same
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thing. We got these serious shocks that are hitting um that are like a
2:24
waterfall, and they but they keep expanding, they keep growing, you know
2:29
right now, they're they're in the banks, they're in the lenders that are
2:32
supporting out there that are not banks but still lenders. We're seeing it in
2:37
the credit and the commercial real estate market. Um, and now it's moving
2:42
into other areas like the zombies the bonds, not the sovereign debt, which
2:49
is not a discussion we'll get into, but the zombies we're seeing. A
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small business has got a problem, and I see just here in the last
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week shipping and packaging company. They're starting to feel it. So it just
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keeps, it's broadening, and it's getting it's getting worse. So there's some
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major concerns here. And the FED reducing the interest rates, which everybody thinks
3:12
is the panacea, I don't. I don't see it as being the panacea,
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as actually could see it accelerating the problems. Initially there may be you
3:20
know, a lot of excitement, but then it starts to break down.
3:23
Her not to go on. But the problem we're facing is we have a
3:29
systemic, long term structural problem that we failed to address. We kind of
3:35
nibbled at OFTO two thousand and eight. We've been we've excess leverage and have
3:42
easy credit. We know the story, I mean all your listeners eat know
3:45
the story. But we've changed. I call it the Great Moderation others due
3:50
to that. We had forty fifty years where we had globalization that reduced costs,
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so you know, labor arbitrage. We had financialization which took interest rates
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down, made so made interest rates cheap to finance products zero bound. And
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then we had mercantilism you remember that with Japan and serving with China, where
4:12
they take all their profits money, send it back to America buyer bonds,
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drive our interest rates down, drive the value of the dollar up, and
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they win and we become a seventy percent So all consumption kind of all that
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is now changed, and it hasn't ended, but it's slowed. And that
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shift that we're going into brings with it a whole series of new things,
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and that for example, stagnation I can talk about it, but there's a
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change in risk premiums, risk cremiums that are in the process of changing of
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a repricing risk of risk premiums associated with the bonds, primarily the bonds you're
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seeing it, but also it's going to come in intiquities and with those changing
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because we've had that. COVID was a destabilizing event. Ukraine was a destabilizing
5:05
event, but from not from the Ukraine stuffook from the sanctions that we're opposed.
5:11
And then we've had the most craziest period in history of a policy,
5:15
this goal public monetary policy that frankly just is bizarre. And so then that's
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what's created the shock of shock waves COVID, Then we had the supply shock,
5:28
that we had the inflation shock, then we had a credit shock.
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Now we're in the middle of a banking shock. I think the liquidity one
5:36
is just only beginning. And then after that and the one that terrifies me,
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as we just said at the beginning, a collateral shock, almost a
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reverse wealth effect. Your comments, you am, I you're with me on
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this. So the question is, like all these countries around the world,
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all these industry they borrowed in dollars expecting the dollar to lose its value.
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The exact opposite happened. That's led to massive insolvencies in China, all over
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the place, and it seems to just be getting worse. It is and
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it will get worse. You know. The dollars. If you travel in
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the world and say, the dollar is so overvalued relative to what you can
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get when you travel, so it seems like you can't buy anything with it
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here in the States. But it's so overvalued. That does not mean the
6:28
bottom is going to follow. I've been writing about dedollarization, etc. But
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that does not mean it's imminent. A matter of fact, I can see
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some serious strengthening of the dollar only because the problems in Europe are as bad
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or worse in our specifically in their banking industry, their pension system. The
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issues in Japan are only getting going. I don't mean to get negative,
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and China is just not coming out of this lockdowns the way we were everybody
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was anticipating. So it's irrelative. The dollar looks still look like a currently
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a safe havens longer term, that's a whole different story on the dollar.
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So let's let's bring this to the Big MAC index, all right, Yeah,
7:15
they're a good example. There are two indexes that I like to follow.
7:18
Number one is the cost of a Thanksgiving meal, because I find that
7:23
to be a much better indication or indicator of food inflation than anything the government
7:30
releases, and because it's a consistent basket. It's not like one Thanksgiving the
7:36
price of cranberries goes up so they substitute blueberries. It's the same basket every
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single year. There's no substitution. And the Big Mac Index, which basically
7:49
measures the relative cost of a big Mac in dollars country by country. Interestingly
7:56
enough, the latest one as of January twenty twenty three, the most expensive
8:01
big Mac was in Switzerland for seven dollars and twenty six cents, and the
8:07
cheapest big Mac was in Venezuela or a dollar seventy six. So if you
8:13
could kind of arbitrage Big Max, you could really make a tidy profit here,
8:18
couldn't you, Gordon, Yeah, well, just substitute Big Max for
8:24
other things. And there's there is a lot of that going on. Yeah,
8:28
arbitrage. Yeah, and it is being arbitrage, make no doubt about
8:33
it. You know, at the end of the game, at the end
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of the day. You know, things like equities are like the tail and
8:39
the dog. The money. The money is first in the credit and the
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second in the dollar in the bombs, and and that's a that's a game
8:46
of arbitrage between countries right now. Just we're getting a little off track.
8:50
But that's that's what I see it. But we have inflation is still with
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us. You know, we keep saying, well, it's down, it's
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falling. CPI is coming down, cores, not CPI is coming down.
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Well just a minute, Okay, it was eight percent and six percent.
9:03
Now we're you know, down, getting into the five percent era. Whoa
9:07
on core? Oh, whoa, just a minute. It doesn't mean inflace
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showing away. It's just another five percent on top of five percent. And
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so pete the consumer in America in a seventy percent consumption economy, it's it
9:20
just can't can't keep absorbing this. They just can't. And now carry what
9:26
I saw on the conference calls. The corporations can't pass it on. They
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pushed, they've tried. They can't pass it on because people are substituting.
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They're they're they're moving away from brands. I mean you know this, well,
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they're they're moving away from brands. They're going to know names, they're
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they're they're they're stopping. I mean, look at Tyson Foods. They're the
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biggest supplier of protein, of meat, and they got serious financial problems.
9:50
The costs that they have to cut. They have to get their costs down
9:54
because their costs are going up. But they can't. They can't raise the
9:58
price. But the they're not losing share, just the product isn't moving,
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So that says people can't afford meat. That's an example of it. But
10:07
you know, you made a really good point carry about the numbers, the
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government numbers versus the big mac The government numbers have always been this leading,
10:16
especially in inflation. You know, substitution. You mentioned we have imputation,
10:20
we have hedonics, we have substance. There's so many games and they keep
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going on. But I have never seen since January, and Frankly, the
10:31
Secretary of Labor resigned. He was the former Boston mayor. He was only
10:35
there briefly. I gotta believe he just wasn't going along with it. But
10:39
we the BLS, the numbers that they keep putting out make no sense.
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If you spend any time looking at the labor numbers, unemployment, employment rates,
10:50
labor rates that are coming out, they're just I mean, it's not
10:54
just me Goldman screaming about it, Morgan, all the major players are saying
10:58
this. They don't still make any sense. But they're buying. They're using
11:03
these numbers to buy time, and that's that's a whole discussion to sell.
11:07
But I you're better to use a big mach I agree with you. So
11:11
how high our interest rate's gonna go, where they're going to dip for a
11:16
little bit because it's safe to go outside or what? You know? Curry
11:22
that that that is the question right now. And you know, and I'm
11:26
a year ago I decided personally, we came to the conclusion at three and
11:31
a half percent on the long bond or the Daniere was was where we were
11:37
going to be, and we're going to be there for we didn't know how
11:39
long, but we're going to stabilize in there. And so we we've been
11:41
playing a game. And actually, and I accredited this to Googen, I'm
11:46
Scott Mitritt, who subsequently died not a lot after um. He was very
11:50
strong in that three and a half percent and he and he pretty well convinced
11:54
me in our study that this is where we needed to be. So we've
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been trading. If it gets up to three point six five, we're out,
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or rather we're in. If it gets down to three point to three
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five fifteen percent bandwidth we get in. So we've been finding ourselves that has
12:11
been really, really effective. So they answer your question, where's it going?
12:15
We think the risk premiums on bonds are only going to go up.
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We think that it's going to take us up to four. We think we're
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going to have to get into the four percent range because right now that Fed
12:26
funds rate with the core come that the PCPI is down just a little hair
12:31
below now the Fed Funds rate, but it's that core, and I don't
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know how much more time they can. They need more time to buy it
12:39
to get inflation to fall down. They won't. I think we've stopped with
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rates going up, but I think the premiums will push it up now.
12:45
Having said that, you know, when the set FED starts to signal and
12:50
starts to come in the bond, you know the yield will drop and prices
12:52
will go up. But but sure a little bit longer after that, you
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know, it depends how they do it. Think we still think we'll see
13:01
four percent for a protracted period on the ten year and a shorter termed a
13:05
whole different game. Right now we're two years. This morning was trading over
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four percent as usual did I answer the question there for you or I think
13:15
so? So it could stove up. The rates are not coming. Rates
13:20
may come down in some trading function. The longer term is there because of
13:24
repricing of risk. And if the fete wants to do it, it'll kill
13:28
a dollar, and maybe they'll sacrifice the dollar they bring. If they charged
13:31
down these rates, inflation will be back because it takes a while to kill
13:35
it. And if inflation comes back, what are they going to do?
13:39
And if they drive them down, the dollar will go down, and they
13:41
don't want that because the issue is right now the debt. That's not the
13:46
debt ceiling, it's the absolute value of the debt. So the interest rates,
13:50
they want them down, but they also you know, it's it's a
13:52
dollar value of it. They can't kill a dollar. It's the golden boose.
13:58
Yeah, So so they're op bacts gold by the way, so they're
14:01
opting to destroy the economy, the global economy, rather than the dollar more
14:07
or less, because they are just it is destroying them. They're they're trying
14:11
to get as far as far along as they possibly can. They're the damage
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is as I just said, with cascading and these these shockwaves is going on.
14:22
They just they just got to be able to get conflation under somewhat under
14:26
control. And they know that they're going to damage the economy. They they've
14:31
already they know that, but they don't want to. If unemployment starts shooting
14:35
up, Andy, it will Congress will be screaming beyond belief and demanding it.
14:41
So they'll have to confitul them. So they're buying a little bit of
14:43
time. They got to kill the village to save it. Yeah, more
14:48
or less, that's what they have to do. Well, they've known that
14:50
right from the get go. Yeah, that they were going to have to
14:52
take us into a recession. I guess the point I'm trying to make is
14:56
they're hoping it will be a decent recession, not a hard landing. And
15:01
I would have went along with that as a possibility maybe four months ago,
15:05
in spite of the hall of negative I see if China had come back stronger.
15:11
But China is just not. It's not China. Their their imports are
15:15
way way down. It they just don't have the demand. There's no global
15:20
there's not enough global demand. Look at Wales down. The commodities are down.
15:24
The demand isn't there, and it's slowing up dramatically. I just read
15:28
the empire Um empire fed numbers here a few months ago. It's like,
15:33
whoa, what's going on here? Was it? Dude? There's a complete
15:37
collapse now that's manufacturing. No, let's face it, in the United States
15:43
is not really the leader in manufacturing anymore. We have clearly we have a
15:48
presence, but it's it's still it is reflective a slowing economy. I see
15:54
it up here in the Northeast. There's just no question things are slowing.
15:58
Sure, yeah, you can tell a little not so much here in Florida,
16:00
although there's a little bit more inventory in the real estate market. But
16:06
but the houses are selling because people are still fleeing, uh your neck of
16:11
the woods to come here. Oh, yes, very much so. And
16:14
even up here, by the way, the housing is still moving. I
16:18
see listings and the houses within days are gone, maybe weeks, but they're
16:23
if they're not staying on the market that long, they're moving, even at
16:27
the higher rates. And I've new construction still going, so that's not that's
16:34
not an indicator where the credits coming from. They're still building is still quite
16:40
evident. But I do see, you know, I've seen rams on residential
16:45
apartment rents which were through the roof. They are starting to weaken because I
16:51
think up here they overbuilt yea. So it's there are so many mixed signals
16:56
out there right now, and I think we have to carry get up to
17:00
a higher plane and see. And it's like you don't see an iceberg move,
17:06
but it moves. And so we're just gradually just keep moving and moving
17:10
and moving it and things keep getting more difficult. And because the economy,
17:15
because the market, which is but the only thing that looks good, has
17:18
been holding up. We think things are fine, but if you take the
17:22
market out, everything is serious problems. So if the markets suddenly drop,
17:29
you know, down to maybe thirty two hundred thirty six hundred on the s
17:33
and p all of a sudden, we have a whole different view of things.
17:36
And you know, and as you well know too, with the you
17:38
know, we've got eight stocks holding up the market, eat stocks literally literally.
17:44
And then why that's the other Why are they holding it up? Why
17:47
are people flooding it in, you know, fear of missing out. We
17:49
can you know, we all understand it. But I learned on the conference
17:53
calls, they're all pushing, they're all going to artificial intelligence. They really
17:59
believe it's the big productivity hit that they can get because they got to figure
18:03
out how to solve their margins. Yeah, and I sensed on the conference
18:07
call that the analysts are all buying into it, especially when IBM came out.
18:12
You probably saw their headlines. They're going to get rid of They're not
18:15
They're going to get rid of six thousand people by avoidance of hiring the artificial
18:21
intelligence. That's what they think, Gordon, Let's say, Oh, it
18:25
just that's what they think they're going to table And that's the perception and others
18:30
from Amazon through from the analysts and therefore these eight companies. A big part
18:36
of it is this this Belwie is giving people enough confidence and you know,
18:41
fear of missing out are in the market. If something punctures at Balloon,
18:47
there's no breath in the market. There's just no breath. Have we been
18:51
here before? Remember the fifty fifties, I remember what it was like in
18:53
two thousand. I guess I'm getting here and I've been through this so many
18:56
times before. When the market gets this narial with just the generals get to
19:03
be fewer and fewer of them out there. Suddenly one of the one of
19:07
the general's fails and everything comes down. Hey that's what I'm looking at.
19:11
Fifty stocks Xerox, where are they now? Yip? Exactly? Go through
19:17
them and hey, where's a Kodak? Right, yes, where's Kodak?
19:22
Now? I haven't heard much about them lately, have you? Well,
19:26
actually we did, but it was basically some scam thing, right, I
19:30
haven't haven't heard anything out. My former boss, George Fisher left us at
19:37
Motorola to take it over. He had these great designs of what he was
19:41
going to do with digital, digital technology and getting out of the yellow box
19:45
business. I haven't seen a yellow box in years. It's all digital.
19:48
But Kodaks never did it right. They owned it, remember when they own
19:52
Oh god, yeah they have them market and yeah rocks about an all but
19:57
franchise. Well, look at IBM, and IBM owned the market. I
20:03
worked at IBM, you know, and then in the seventies we owned the
20:07
market. Now they're fighting for their life and it wasn't for buy backs and
20:11
borrowing money to pay dividends. There's nothing, I believe, there's no value
20:15
in the stock. No, it's it's just a melk cash cow game that's
20:19
going on institutions. Mind, I don't mean to be that negative. I
20:22
mean it's great company, great ploys, is bad strategy more. Yeah,
20:29
they were shortsighted they could stop their profit per share of profit by buy backs.
20:34
Well, it was here, it was, it was, It was
20:37
a having been. It was a tough game we were making. The margins
20:41
were so good on mainframe, why would you come out and start selling smaller
20:47
products. So we enibbled in the pcason but there's no margins and it's all
20:51
volume. So you play a game, you keep dragging it out, but
20:52
other guys come in and take the business. We didn't believe that. Senior
20:57
people did not believe there was money in the in the in the software business.
21:02
So this little guy, Bill Gates suddenly owns the operating system in the
21:06
PC. Restless history Microscott, Microsoft's market kapit is compared to IBM one,
21:12
yeah, double trimple four times. Yeah, and look at and look at
21:18
Google, you know, and Apple and all of them, you know.
21:22
Well, being a kind of negative fun on this movement to artificial intelligence.
21:26
But the movement where potential that we see there. I see two is stunning.
21:33
It's not going to be as fast, it's going to be a little
21:36
different. And I actually when you you were the first one at actually with
21:40
chat GDP a GPT that you were playing around with it. I remember the
21:45
last time we talked, we had five hundred million people bring down BATA.
21:49
There's one point six billion using it now. Is it riddle full of problem?
21:55
Without question? But you know that's what happens to pioneers. I get
21:59
arrows in the baggage. But when this app market, the people that developed
22:03
the apps for the bones and they depablet, they start to take that technology
22:08
and the next generation and target it and clean it up. It's I just
22:15
put out a video called the the End of the Cubicle Class. Yeah,
22:21
I saw that. I enjoyed that too, And I may be over exaggerating
22:26
it, but there's just so many I mean, you're a lawyer, just
22:30
think of what you can do in you know, it's just putting briefs together,
22:34
doing the just pulling it out of the database, putting that GMPT,
22:37
write the thing just about exactly. I had an I had a recommendation letter
22:45
I needed to write for somebody, and I said, you know, I'm
22:48
a total nitpicker over how I do this stuff. And I said, well,
22:55
let's try to shut GPT. See how it will actually write a recommendation
23:00
letter. And it was about eighty five percent as good as what I can
23:04
write, which in this case was enough, and it saved me a half
23:08
hour of editing, basically perfect. It's better to be able to pay somebody
23:14
to prove something than writing it from scratch when it's just donkey work anyway,
23:18
right, you know, there was an article in Kenya that is like the
23:22
number one the epicenter of cheats for hire for like, yeah, you know,
23:32
papers, term papers, college, the thesis and all that. I
23:36
don't know that people really do their master's thesis with them, but they do
23:41
papers. And they were bemoaning the fact that chat GPT had cut their earnings
23:45
by two thirds for these professional cheaters, and Kenya as to them, what
23:51
does it mean, right, it's an income source. They don't care about
23:55
the academic dishonesty. You know, they've got to eat. And I don't
24:00
blame them, but but you know that's an unintended consequence here, Gordon Kerry,
24:06
I did a lot of work on productivity and as you know, the
24:10
productivity and not only America but in the development is in free fall, has
24:15
been here for a year and a half. It's a major issue. And
24:18
the squeeze that are on the corporations right now that's centered from inflation, also
24:23
going to be about money being tighter to get it on, not whole on
24:26
highly leveraged balance sheets. Not having invested in the future is going to force
24:34
them to chase As I said, this artificial intelligence and derivatives from it in
24:40
a massive way. And if Goldman Sachs who said they thought there was going
24:44
to be upwards of three hundred million people that were going to lose their jobs,
24:48
don't believe that. But you know, twenty five thirty forty million people
24:53
over the next three four years, high paying jobs. That's the issue.
25:00
They're not hourly workers. They're they're they're they're they're higher middle income workers and
25:06
higher the skill That is going to be incredibly a big hit to an economy
25:11
that's going into stagulation. That's that's the problem there, But it's it's coming.
25:15
So picking the winners in this in this arena, which is always difficult.
25:19
Um you know, there's a there's a new there's another Google, there's
25:25
another Amazon, there's another Microsoft in that crowd. Yeah, Well, interestingly,
25:29
enough is watching a video of two pilots discussing AI. Can it replace
25:34
a pilot? And the thing is like, but they say, AI does?
25:40
Is? It guesses? And the quality of the guess is like you
25:45
ask it a question and then it follows it with words. It's about eighty
25:48
percent correct, but you come up with some ridiculous results that are inaccurate and
25:53
untrue. And the thing is, it's not self aware. It doesn't know
25:59
that it's making the mistakes. It doesn't even know what it's doing. My
26:03
brother once said, you know, you could teach a monkey to play Beethoven
26:07
on an organ, but it's never going to know that it's playing Beethoven.
26:11
And I think AI at its current phase is very useful, don't get me
26:17
wrong. Especially the ability to analyze huge amounts of data, almost unimaginable amounts,
26:23
at a rapid clip, and then come up with an answer to a
26:27
question. There's definitely an application for it. It's way better than what we
26:32
have now. But phil it becomes self aware, it's going to be it's
26:37
going to have its limits. It's not replacing pilots. Maybe it can augment
26:42
or mostly supplant drivers and cars. I mean, I love my Tesla so
26:48
called full full self driving beta. It's not there yet. I mean,
26:53
it makes a lot of mistakes. When it first came out, I said
26:57
it was the equivalent to a sixteen year old who just got their license.
27:06
It had the confidence of a sixteen year old who just got her license,
27:10
but not the actual judgment. You know. And it's gotten a lot better,
27:15
I'll say that, But you can't trust the thing. And you can't
27:19
trust these things either at the current point. Not that you won't be able
27:23
to later. Well, it's it's always exactly. It's always like that.
27:29
My days at IBM, Mike was convinced we did beta sites by selling the
27:33
equipment and putting it out there and in fixing the problems when the customers site.
27:37
Um there was the mainframe rare was there were so many problems you just
27:44
could You couldn't believe it, but you had to saw You saw them after
27:48
the fact, and then you got better and better and better at it.
27:51
Yeah, and that's that's what comes with new technology. So I'm not trying
27:56
to in no way. I'm saying there's going to be changed with it,
27:59
and there's going to be some real winners in it. Uh, and it
28:02
is going to make its mark. But it's not a panacea tomorrow, next,
28:07
next, twenty four forty eight months. But I do see in it
28:11
though, Kerry Is, I've been watched looking at patents and and I don't
28:15
know if you've been well, the number of patents that are being produced in
28:19
America. It's just we're not doing it. They're just plummeted. They're coming
28:22
in China, they're coming in India, they're coming in all other countries right
28:27
across the board. Not just in technology. We're not investing in newer technologies.
28:33
Now AI who's going to be the leader in it, will say wow,
28:37
Google, and we'll need some players. They'll be some American player.
28:40
This the bigger players could come out of will come out of other countries.
28:45
And so where is the investment for America? And this could end up being
28:48
a believed for us where it gives us some productivity advantages. But our company,
28:53
our company is going to survive. It's it's it's like it's like batteries.
28:57
It's like batteries. On the av We're gonna go to electoral bolt.
29:00
What was making to make all the money on evs in China? They own
29:04
the lithium mines, they own the cobalt lines. They got a lock on
29:08
it. So always just said, well we'll bv be hydrogen. They got
29:11
a lock on that. So you know, where's our leadership that That's the
29:17
thing that I spent a lot of time at trying to figure out where a
29:18
sustaining competitive advantage is. And it's getting narrower and narrower. And I see
29:23
it again because I said on patents, I see it on these spacks.
29:29
You know, you know they ad the legitimate I used to be in private
29:32
equity and you know we you know, take a company public is a very
29:36
complex process through the financing bro We don't do that anymore because Sarbanes oxy we
29:41
get around it with spacks. I'm seeing unicorns, but they're not producing,
29:45
they don't sustain, and then they're getting taken off shore. How many IPOs
29:48
are we doing anymore? So that's worrying me in a big way too right
29:53
now of really trying to sustain our economy. And the goals goes back to
29:57
we're talking about the beginning. I'm a really positive guy here today. All
30:00
right, You're a breath of fresh air. That's because I spend so much
30:06
time in the credit our case. You gotta stop looking at though, gotta
30:10
stop looking well exactly that. I think you've given us a lot to chew
30:14
over here. Just tell us where we find your work. How we subscribe
30:18
to you? Yeah, thank you very much, Kerry. Yeah. I
30:22
exclusively put over all our research up at Matta mattasii dot com. That's m
30:26
Apa SII dot com. Videos, newsletters, and we do them more as
30:36
part of our research process, and they're there. There is part they're free.
30:41
There is a subscription business for other unique pieces. But I can encourage
30:44
everybody to join us. The only thing we ask is feedback on it because
30:48
we learn a lot from from Frankly, the people that are reading our work.
30:52
All right, well that's what we'd like to hear. I've got a
30:55
questions recording myself k l at krylods dot com. Write your comments on the
30:59
YouTube channel below. Subscribe to our newsletter at Financial Survival Network dot com.
31:04
Gordon, always a pleasure, Thanks for coming on back to you again,
31:07
Karrie. Thank you Bye, thanks for listening to Carrie Lets's Financial Survival Network,
31:12
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31:18
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