Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And His Time In Pennsylvania (9/20/26)

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Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And His Time In Pennsylvania (9/20/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Keeping
0:05
Speaker 1: with the theme of the Pennsylvania warrant, we have another
0:08
Speaker 1: article that we're going to dive into where we hear
0:11
Speaker 1: from a few experts who are breaking down this evidence
0:14
Speaker 1: and the significance of some of it. So let's dive
0:18
Speaker 1: right into this article from Fox News and let's see
0:21
Speaker 1: what they have to say about the Pennsylvania warrant and
0:24
Speaker 1: the items that were seized. Headline, Brian Koberger's Pennsylvania warrants.
0:30
Speaker 1: Experts break down the key evidence. This article was authored
0:35
Speaker 1: by Michael Ruiz. Police recovered knives, masks, gloves, black clothing, computers,
0:42
Speaker 1: and a phone in a raid on the home of
0:44
Speaker 1: Idaho murder suspect Brian Koberger's parents in the Poconos last year.
0:49
Speaker 1: But the smoking gun may lie in what they find
0:53
Speaker 1: in his 2015 Hyundai Elantra, the DNA they collected and
0:57
Speaker 1: the contents of his phone, experts say, and I think
1:00
Speaker 1: that's the likeliest scenario. The Hyundai Elantra is basically a
1:05
Speaker 1: goldmine of DNA, if there's any to be found, because
1:09
Speaker 1: you have to think, if Brian Koberger got in his
1:11
Speaker 1: car as quickly as he did after these murders, as
1:15
Speaker 1: the police allege, he would have brought some of that
1:18
Speaker 1: DNA with him, and that DNA most likely was transferred
1:23
Speaker 1: somewhere in his car, whether it be on the seat,
1:25
Speaker 1: the visor, the stick shift, whatever it might be. Chances are,
1:30
Speaker 1: if there's anything to find, they're going to find it
1:32
Speaker 1: in that car. No matter how well you clean it,
1:35
Speaker 1: no matter how many times you vacuum it, you turtle
1:38
Speaker 1: wax that bad boy, it's not going to matter. If
1:41
Speaker 1: there's DNA evidence to be found, they're going to find it.
1:45
Speaker 1: If any of those kids' DNA, or the dog's DNA,
1:48
Speaker 1: was either in his apartment or in the car, his
1:51
Speaker 1: goose is cooked, said Joseph Giaclone. a retired NYPD sergeant,
1:56
Speaker 1: and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. There's
2:00
Speaker 1: no way you're going to explain that away. And for
2:03
Speaker 1: all of the contrarians out there who want to take
2:05
Speaker 1: the approach that they did with Alex Murdaugh, that Brian
2:08
Speaker 1: Koberger is, you know, this innocent guy, well, you're going
2:11
Speaker 1: to have to explain all of this stuff in open
2:14
Speaker 1: court in front of a jury.
2:16
Speaker 2: And guess what?
2:17
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger isn't going to have an all-star team of
2:20
Speaker 1: lawyers like Alex Murdaugh did. If you think that the
2:23
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence was strong against Alec Murdoch, then you have
2:27
Speaker 1: to believe that the evidence against Brian Kohlberger is strong
2:31
Speaker 1: as hell as well. Four University of Idaho students, Madison Mogan,
2:35
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, were found stabbed
2:40
Speaker 1: to death in an off-campus home in Moscow, Idaho, in
2:43
Speaker 1: the early hours of November 13th. It appears the students
2:47
Speaker 1: were ambushed as they slept. Well, not so much anymore, right?
2:51
Speaker 1: We know that at least some of them were awake
2:54
Speaker 1: and it wasn't the whole, oh, they were sleeping and
2:57
Speaker 1: were murdered while they were slumbering that we got in
2:59
Speaker 1: the beginning. At least some of them, including Zanna and Ethan,
3:05
Speaker 1: were awake when this went down. A court-ordered 60-day seal
3:10
Speaker 1: on the search warrant served in connection with Kohlberger's December
3:13
Speaker 1: 30th arrest expired, making the documents that detail what police
3:18
Speaker 1: found in his parents' home and his car public Thursday morning.
3:23
Speaker 1: Separate warrants served on his apartment and office in Washington
3:27
Speaker 1: State show that police recovered human and animal hair samples,
3:31
Speaker 1: among other items. However, between Koberger's departure from Washington State
3:37
Speaker 1: University and his arrival back home in Albrightville, Pennsylvania for
3:41
Speaker 1: winter break, police in Indiana stopped him twice under the
3:45
Speaker 1: same unusual pretext, tailgating on the interstate. And that was
3:50
Speaker 1: crazy too, right? When he got pulled over, there was
3:53
Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason for any of that. And of course,
3:55
Speaker 1: they'll say it was for tailgating. But how many of
3:58
Speaker 1: you out there have been pulled over for tailgating? I'm
4:01
Speaker 1: sure here in Las Vegas, that's not something the police
4:04
Speaker 1: are pulling you over for all the time. And to
4:06
Speaker 1: get pulled over twice in consecutive fashion the way he
4:10
Speaker 1: did for something like tailgating, that certainly seems a bit
4:13
Speaker 1: odd to me. Those stops could have flagged the suspected
4:17
Speaker 1: killer that police were following his footsteps, according to Pat Diaz,
4:21
Speaker 1: a longtime Miami homicide detective who is now a private investigator,
4:26
Speaker 1: and Paul Morrow, a retired NYPD inspector who is now
4:30
Speaker 1: a lawyer.
4:30
Speaker 2: Now, why is it that the FBI would even let
4:33
Speaker 2: that occur?
4:34
Speaker 1: You don't call ahead to Indiana Police Or when you
4:36
Speaker 1: see him getting pulled over since you're following him, allegedly,
4:39
Speaker 1: you don't call Indiana and say to them, look, leave
4:42
Speaker 1: this dude alone. We have things going on right now
4:45
Speaker 1: and we can't have you getting involved. But obviously that
4:48
Speaker 1: didn't occur and they just let him get pulled over
4:51
Speaker 1: and maybe it tipped Brian Koberger off that the feds
4:54
Speaker 1: and the police were on to him. I think he
4:58
Speaker 1: was trying to throw them off course, Diaz told Fox
5:00
Speaker 1: News Digital on Thursday. What's going to get him is
5:04
Speaker 1: if this girl's picture is in his phone. There's no
5:06
Speaker 1: doubt that if he has the picture in his phone,
5:09
Speaker 1: which I believe he does, he's in big trouble. There
5:12
Speaker 1: are certain things that are following Brian Koberger around right
5:15
Speaker 1: now that are going to be almost insurmountable for him
5:18
Speaker 1: to get by. And I know there's people out there
5:22
Speaker 1: that want to act like, oh, well, you know, you're
5:24
Speaker 1: innocent until you're proven guilty. Well, it's true.
5:26
Speaker 2: You are.
5:27
Speaker 1: But let's not act like the evidence isn't mounting against
5:30
Speaker 1: this guy. And while the court has to be completely
5:34
Speaker 1: stringent and has to be completely fair and non-bias, us
5:39
Speaker 1: in the public, well, that's a different story. And when
5:42
Speaker 1: you're getting smacked in the face repeatedly with evidence over
5:46
Speaker 1: and over, even when it's circumstantial, it all starts to
5:49
Speaker 1: add up. And you saw the same thing down there
5:52
Speaker 1: with Alex Murdaugh. And you're going to see the same
5:54
Speaker 1: thing here with Brian Koberger. Watch and see. The warrant
5:59
Speaker 1: allows police to use a number of what Morrow described
6:02
Speaker 1: as jailbreaking techniques for police to access private data in
6:06
Speaker 1: the phone, including holding it up to his face if
6:09
Speaker 1: it's locked by facial recognition or force a finger swipe
6:13
Speaker 1: to unlock it with a fingerprint. Basically, what he's saying
6:16
Speaker 1: here is that once you're under arrest, and they have
6:19
Speaker 1: a search warrant, forget it. There's nothing you can do
6:21
Speaker 1: as far as being the perp to stop them from
6:24
Speaker 1: getting into your phone. They're going to get into that
6:27
Speaker 1: phone one way or the other. That's why if you're
6:29
Speaker 1: a criminal out there and you're using your cell phone,
6:31
Speaker 1: you're a dumbass. If investigators could get through the device's security,
6:37
Speaker 1: they may obtain access to a trove of useful information,
6:41
Speaker 1: including what apps he used, what websites he visited, and
6:45
Speaker 1: location data. He's 28. He's living out of his phone
6:49
Speaker 1: like everyone else, Morrow said. There's no doubt that the
6:52
Speaker 1: cell phone will be a treasure trove of information. The
6:56
Speaker 1: question is, what information is going to be found on
6:59
Speaker 1: that phone? And in my opinion, they're going to find
7:03
Speaker 1: a lot. They're going to find pictures of at least
7:06
Speaker 1: one of the victims. And they're going to probably find
7:10
Speaker 1: a bunch of other weird-ass, freaky shit. Another key element,
7:15
Speaker 1: he added, is the number of DNA swabs police took
7:18
Speaker 1: at the scene. What that tells me is that in
7:22
Speaker 1: light of everything else that we know, the swabs must
7:25
Speaker 1: have matched 100% to the touch DNA that was on
7:28
Speaker 1: the sheath, he said. Otherwise, if it had matched anything else,
7:32
Speaker 1: you might have seen them released. And that is significant.
7:36
Speaker 1: The DNA evidence obviously matches up, and what they have
7:39
Speaker 1: behind the scenes is obviously a lot stronger than what
7:43
Speaker 1: we have seen. As Fox News Digital has reported, police
7:48
Speaker 1: recovered a K-bar knife sheath near Mogan's body. According to
7:52
Speaker 1: the probable cause affidavit filed in Latah County, Idaho, it
7:56
Speaker 1: contained a DNA sample that was a familial match to
8:00
Speaker 1: DNA collected from a trash can outside the Koberger family
8:03
Speaker 1: house weeks later. By negative inference, we can say that
8:08
Speaker 1: the sample that they took in Moscow, Idaho almost certainly
8:12
Speaker 1: does match the swabs from the inside of the cheek
8:15
Speaker 1: that they took from the Pennsylvania scene, Morrow said. So
8:19
Speaker 1: not only is it the familial match, right? They got
8:22
Speaker 1: the swabs now right from Brian Koberger's mouth. And with
8:25
Speaker 1: those buccal swabs, they can run the match on the
8:28
Speaker 1: Touch DNA. Also of note, although it could be coincidence,
8:32
Speaker 1: is the order in which the items are listed, Giacalone said.
8:36
Speaker 1: The first piece of evidence on the list is a knife.
8:39
Speaker 1: Unlike other knives inventoried in the document, There is no description,
8:43
Speaker 1: so its significance is not fully clear.
8:46
Speaker 2: Look, I'd love to eat crow here.
8:48
Speaker 1: I'd love for this to be the knife that Brian
8:50
Speaker 1: Koberger allegedly committed these murders with. That would be fantastic
8:54
Speaker 1: as far as the prosecution goes. But do I think
8:58
Speaker 1: that it is going to be the knife? I don't
9:00
Speaker 1: think so. But I'll tell you what, that's one scenario
9:03
Speaker 1: where I'd love to be wrong. Because if it is
9:05
Speaker 1: the knife, forget it. Now, he's not wrong here either
9:08
Speaker 1: to point out that they don't give a description of
9:11
Speaker 1: the knife. It's a very generic statement, right? Just a knife.
9:14
Speaker 1: That can mean anything. So I'm hesitant to jump in
9:18
Speaker 1: with both feet and say, oh, well, they got the
9:20
Speaker 1: murder weapon. And until we have more context, obviously, that'll
9:24
Speaker 1: be a question that'll have to be answered later on.
9:28
Speaker 1: But it comes before a gun confiscated that the writer
9:31
Speaker 1: did not mention until number four on the list. and
9:34
Speaker 1: ahead of a curious entry about a book with underlying
9:38
Speaker 1: text on page 118. And the gun stuff, that certainly
9:42
Speaker 1: tracks with me. As I stated earlier, I believe that
9:45
Speaker 1: somebody going into a house to commit murder with a
9:48
Speaker 1: knife probably has a redundancy, and that redundancy is probably
9:52
Speaker 1: a firearm. I want to know what the book is
9:56
Speaker 1: and what is underlined. Edwina Elcox, a high-profile criminal defense
10:00
Speaker 1: attorney based in Boise, Idaho, told Fox News Digital. She
10:04
Speaker 1: said none of the other items seized struck her as
10:07
Speaker 1: particularly surprising. And you see, you have her talking about
10:11
Speaker 1: the book. You have the other expert that we talked
10:14
Speaker 1: about earlier who said the masks are the most significant.
10:17
Speaker 1: So it's important, right, to get as much context as
10:19
Speaker 1: possible and to hear from as many experts as possible
10:22
Speaker 1: so that we're armed with as much.
10:24
Speaker 2: Knowledge as possible.
10:27
Speaker 1: Police also took Koberger's 2015 white Hyundai Elantra, identified in
10:33
Speaker 1: court documents, as suspect vehicle number one. The warrants note
10:37
Speaker 1: that police tore it apart, removing the pedals, fabric, seatbelt,
10:41
Speaker 1: and other components for closer scrutiny. And after observing an
10:45
Speaker 1: apparent attempt of Koberger to clean out the vehicle, they
10:49
Speaker 1: even seized a car vacuum.
10:51
Speaker 2: Good idea.
10:52
Speaker 1: You don't know what's in that vacuum, and you have
10:54
Speaker 1: to run that through your forensics. However, even the cleaned-out
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Speaker 1: vehicle could have a lot of valuable evidence, Giacalone said.
11:03
Speaker 2: You can recover evidence, he said.
11:05
Speaker 1: Even bleach, probably the only thing that might be able
11:08
Speaker 1: to get rid of blood and all that stuff, has
11:10
Speaker 1: a distinct odor that lasts for a while. And it
11:13
Speaker 1: leaves a molecule compound behind. Plus, bleach changes the color
11:18
Speaker 1: of the fabric. That's what I was going to say.
11:20
Speaker 1: How many of you accidentally have had bleach on a
11:23
Speaker 1: t-shirt before and it ruined it? So if Kohlberger used
11:26
Speaker 1: bleach on the car fabric, it's certainly going to discolor it,
11:30
Speaker 1: and you're going to be able to tell that bleach
11:32
Speaker 1: was used. Also telling are what authorities did not recover,
11:37
Speaker 1: Giacalone noted. They seized numerous pairs of shoes, but none
11:41
Speaker 1: of them were van sneakers, which are believed to have
11:44
Speaker 1: left a footprint police found at the King Road crime
11:47
Speaker 1: scene in Moscow, Idaho. Now again with the shoes, I
11:51
Speaker 1: think we have to be careful just assuming that he
11:54
Speaker 1: was wearing Vans or that the killer was wearing a
11:57
Speaker 1: pair of Vans. Now, the sole certainly matches up with
12:00
Speaker 1: what we have heard anyway with a pair of Vans.
12:03
Speaker 1: But we have to be very careful that we don't
12:06
Speaker 1: get tunnel vision and just focus on Vans when I'm
12:10
Speaker 1: sure there's other shoes out there with diamond soles as well. Remember,
12:14
Speaker 1: they took hiking boots. They took some other boots. Do
12:17
Speaker 1: those have diamond patterns? Until we have a view of
12:21
Speaker 1: what the latent footprint looks like and what sort of
12:23
Speaker 1: diamond pattern that soul made, I think it's up in
12:26
Speaker 1: the air as far as what kind of footwear the
12:29
Speaker 1: killer was wearing. And more than likely, it probably was Vans, right?
12:33
Speaker 1: But we have to make sure that we don't get
12:35
Speaker 1: locked into just thinking about Vans when it could be
12:39
Speaker 1: some different footwear that made those imprints. And I'm sure
12:43
Speaker 1: moving forward, especially come trial time, we'll get more context
12:46
Speaker 1: around all of that. And once we get that context,
12:50
Speaker 1: all of this murk will start to go away and
12:52
Speaker 1: the waters will certainly start to clear. All right, folks,
12:56
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
12:58
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
13:02
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back
13:05
Speaker 1: to the program. We're hearing a little bit more about
13:09
Speaker 1: the Brian Koberger arrest and how he initially agreed to
13:13
Speaker 1: speak with law enforcement before he invoked his right to
13:17
Speaker 1: speak with a lawyer. And that came right after they
13:21
Speaker 1: asked him about the murders in Moscow. Well, Law and
13:25
Speaker 1: Crime has an article discussing this, so let's dive into
13:29
Speaker 1: this article and let's see what Law and Crime has
13:33
Speaker 1: for us. Headline, Brian Koberger initially agreed to speak to
13:37
Speaker 1: law enforcement, then invoked right to counsel, according.
13:42
Speaker 2: To his lawyer.
13:44
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Agnet Levy. Brian Koberger, the
13:50
Speaker 1: man charged with murdering four University of Idaho students, initially
13:54
Speaker 1: waived his right to counsel and agreed to speak with
13:56
Speaker 1: law enforcement following his arrest. But then he requested an attorney,
14:01
Speaker 1: according to the public defender representing him in Pennsylvania. Now,
14:06
Speaker 1: why would he waive his right to an attorney from
14:10
Speaker 1: the jump? What could he be angling for? Not wanting
14:14
Speaker 1: to speak to an attorney. Do you think that makes
14:16
Speaker 1: you look less guilty or something? because it doesn't, not
14:19
Speaker 1: where I'm sitting. I've said a million times here on
14:23
Speaker 1: this podcast, if you have any interaction with law enforcement,
14:26
Speaker 1: you should have an attorney. Never mind if you're on
14:29
Speaker 1: the hook for four homicides. So you would think somebody
14:33
Speaker 1: like him, who is well adept when it comes to criminology,
14:36
Speaker 1: the way things like this usually work, that he'd want
14:39
Speaker 1: a lawyer right away. So it's interesting that he would
14:42
Speaker 1: waive those Miranda rights immediately. from the jump before realizing
14:46
Speaker 1: that that was probably not a good idea and getting
14:50
Speaker 1: the advice of a lawyer and having a lawyer come
14:52
Speaker 1: in and speak for him was probably the way to go. Koberger, 28,
14:57
Speaker 1: was taken into custody just before 2 a.m. last Friday
15:00
Speaker 1: morning at his parents' home in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. He faces
15:05
Speaker 1: four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony
15:08
Speaker 1: burglary for the deaths of Kaylee Gonsalves, Maddie Mogan, Zanna Kernodle,
15:13
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin, at a home near campus last November.
15:17
Speaker 1: Koberger is being held at the Monroe County Correctional Facility
15:21
Speaker 1: until an extradition hearing scheduled for tomorrow. Now, we're going
15:25
Speaker 1: to have a limited look at this hearing tomorrow, so
15:28
Speaker 1: obviously we'll be talking about it and discussing what goes down.
15:32
Speaker 1: But we're expecting it to be a pretty in-and-out type
15:37
Speaker 1: of procedure. He's going to go in, he's going to
15:39
Speaker 1: wave his right to extradition, and then that will start
15:43
Speaker 1: the process of getting him back to Idaho. So I
15:46
Speaker 1: figure maybe 72 hours or so after this hearing, Mr.
15:50
Speaker 1: Koberger will be on his way back to Idaho. He's calm.
15:55
Speaker 1: He's fully aware. It's obvious he's very intelligent. He already
15:59
Speaker 1: has a master's. It shouldn't shock anyone that he's intelligent,
16:02
Speaker 1: said Jason Labar, chief public defender for Monroe County, who
16:06
Speaker 1: will represent Koberger at what is expected to be a
16:09
Speaker 1: brief extradition hearing on Tuesday. Koberger, had just completed his
16:14
Speaker 1: first semester as a Ph.D. student studying criminal justice and
16:19
Speaker 1: criminology at Washington State University in Pullman when he was
16:23
Speaker 1: taken into custody. Labar told Law and Crimes' Agnet Levy
16:28
Speaker 1: that Koberger spoke with law enforcement for 5 to 15
16:32
Speaker 1: minutes at the Pennsylvania State Police barracks following his arrest
16:36
Speaker 1: early last Friday morning. Now, I don't know why somebody
16:41
Speaker 1: as intelligent as this dude is supposed to be would
16:44
Speaker 1: be out here popping in his lips talking to the police.
16:47
Speaker 1: That's going to get you nowhere. Your best bet is
16:51
Speaker 1: to shut your mouth and wait for a lawyer. Initially,
16:55
Speaker 1: Koberger waived his Miranda rights, but then requested an attorney.
16:59
Speaker 1: Labar said Koberger told him that police asked his client
17:02
Speaker 1: if he understood what was going on, and he responded
17:05
Speaker 1: by saying something to the effect of, yes, certainly. I'm
17:09
Speaker 1: aware of what's going on. I'm 10 miles away from this. Then,
17:12
Speaker 1: Labar said, Koberger invoked his right to counsel and asked
17:16
Speaker 1: for an attorney. It's really hard to read into what
17:20
Speaker 1: he's thinking here, being Brian Koberger, with his strategy of
17:24
Speaker 1: not asking for a lawyer at first and then requesting
17:27
Speaker 1: one a little bit later on. You would think that
17:30
Speaker 1: somebody who is facing these sorts of accusations would want
17:33
Speaker 1: a lawyer's guidance right from Jump Street. But he didn't
17:37
Speaker 1: request a lawyer at first. In fact, he waived his
17:39
Speaker 1: Miranda rights. Moscow police said they seized a 2015 white
17:45
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra. Labar confirmed Koberger drove that vehicle. Police had
17:50
Speaker 1: initially asked last month for any information about a 2011
17:54
Speaker 1: through 2013 white Hyundai Elantra and said they had registrations
18:00
Speaker 1: for 22,000 vehicles that matched that description. Police executed search
18:05
Speaker 1: warrants at Koberger's apartment in Pullman, and seized several items
18:09
Speaker 1: and also searched his parents' home in Pennsylvania. And remember,
18:14
Speaker 1: we also know they had over 50 warrants that they
18:17
Speaker 1: were serving previously. Whether they were digital or otherwise, we
18:21
Speaker 1: don't have that information yet, but they've been serving a
18:24
Speaker 1: lot of warrants since the very beginning here. Koberger arrived
18:28
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania in mid-December, Labar said. His father flew to
18:32
Speaker 1: Washington to make the drive back with his son. And
18:35
Speaker 1: what Labar said was a trip planned before the start
18:39
Speaker 1: of the school year. Now, this is something we were
18:41
Speaker 1: talking about earlier when we first heard that he had
18:44
Speaker 1: drove back with his son. I wanted to know if
18:46
Speaker 1: it was a pre-planned trip or if it was something
18:49
Speaker 1: that was spur of the moment, because that would offer
18:51
Speaker 1: us a lot of context into what went on here
18:54
Speaker 1: as far as this trip. If it was spur of
18:57
Speaker 1: the moment, that would be pretty suspect. But if it
19:00
Speaker 1: was something that was planned and they had, you know,
19:02
Speaker 1: made the plan to drive across country and bond or
19:05
Speaker 1: whatever it was, then that makes more sense, right? When
19:09
Speaker 1: you have it in context. LeBar said father and son
19:12
Speaker 1: left Pullman sometime between December 13th and December 16th in
19:16
Speaker 1: an effort to beat the incoming snowstorm. Brian isn't denying
19:20
Speaker 1: he was in Pullman through mid-December, LeBar said. He also
19:24
Speaker 1: said he assumes law enforcement has his GPS data available
19:28
Speaker 1: through his mobile phone. Oh, you better believe they do.
19:32
Speaker 1: You better believe that they were using geofence warrants, every
19:36
Speaker 1: warrant you can possibly imagine as far as digital to
19:39
Speaker 1: try and get information from his phone about his whereabouts,
19:42
Speaker 1: what he was up to, even what he was looking
19:44
Speaker 1: at on the Internet, maybe. You know that they were
19:47
Speaker 1: doing all of that. Kohlberger's family released a statement over
19:53
Speaker 1: the weekend through LeBar. First and foremost, we care deeply
19:57
Speaker 1: for the four families who have lost their precious children.
20:01
Speaker 1: There are no words that can adequately express the sadness
20:04
Speaker 1: we feel and we pray each day for them. The
20:07
Speaker 1: statement read, We will continue to let the legal process unfold.
20:11
Speaker 1: And as a family, we will love and support our
20:14
Speaker 1: son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement
20:18
Speaker 1: agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote
20:21
Speaker 1: his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and
20:25
Speaker 1: make erroneous assumptions. And what else do you expect the
20:29
Speaker 1: family to say? We talked about this earlier as well.
20:32
Speaker 1: I mean, you want to hope the best for your family,
20:34
Speaker 1: think the best of your son, and you certainly don't
20:36
Speaker 1: want to think that he's capable of grisly murders such
20:40
Speaker 1: as these, right? So it would take a lot of
20:42
Speaker 1: evidence for me to believe my kid did this. Unless,
20:45
Speaker 1: of course, you have a child who is off the
20:48
Speaker 1: tracks anyway and up to no good. But we don't
20:51
Speaker 1: see that here, at least as far as police records
20:54
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Little is known about Koberger, but
21:03
Speaker 1: former classmates have come forward to share their recollections of him.
21:07
Speaker 1: They requested anonymity after law enforcement requested they not speak
21:11
Speaker 1: publicly about Koberger. A man who attended DeSalas University in
21:16
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania with Koberger during their undergraduate studies recalled a tall,
21:21
Speaker 1: awkward student who often spoke over professors in a superior manner.
21:26
Speaker 1: And that fits the bill. With the basic profile we
21:29
Speaker 1: have of this dude, Seems like he's an arrogant guy.
21:32
Speaker 1: Somebody who thinks he's smarter than everybody else. Somebody who
21:35
Speaker 1: has to tell you how smart he is all the time.
21:38
Speaker 1: You know the type. Words can't really describe my shock.
21:43
Speaker 1: It's pretty surreal, the man said. He added that he
21:46
Speaker 1: had noticed a slight change in Koberger's appearance from their
21:49
Speaker 1: undergraduate years. He definitely looks sort of gone and emaciated
21:54
Speaker 1: at this point. A little older, the man stated. Well,
21:57
Speaker 1: things happen in people's lives. I can't read too much
22:00
Speaker 1: into that. The former classmate described how he remembered Koberger
22:04
Speaker 1: in classes. He definitely was an awkward figure. Very tall, skinny,
22:09
Speaker 1: the former student said. He added that the desks at
22:12
Speaker 1: DeSalas were somewhat small, so Koberger, who stands around six
22:17
Speaker 1: feet tall, barely fit in the small desks. He said
22:20
Speaker 1: he viewed Koberger as an outcast because he was clearly
22:23
Speaker 1: somebody who was very interested in criminal justice in a
22:27
Speaker 1: deep way, but didn't take part in the extracurricular activities
22:31
Speaker 1: surrounding the major, such as criminal justice club and a
22:35
Speaker 1: criminal justice conference many of the other students attended. While
22:40
Speaker 1: Koberger willingly spoke in class, he didn't socialize with other
22:43
Speaker 1: students in the major outside of class. And looking back
22:48
Speaker 1: in hindsight, That's certainly a red flag. If he was
22:52
Speaker 1: harboring these deep, dark desires, the last thing he wants
22:55
Speaker 1: to do is go and spend his time with other
22:57
Speaker 1: people studying to become criminologists, right? I'm sure a few
23:01
Speaker 1: of them will work up a profile or two. But
23:05
Speaker 1: that's if you're using hindsight. When you're not using hindsight,
23:08
Speaker 1: you say to yourself, oh, that's just someone who's a
23:10
Speaker 1: social recluse working on their studies and they don't want
23:14
Speaker 1: to go out and party.
23:15
Speaker 2: And you keep it moving.
23:16
Speaker 1: At least that's what I would do. I wouldn't think
23:18
Speaker 1: another thing of it. He's definitely articulate, but stuck on
23:24
Speaker 1: minor details and pointing out flaws in what the professor
23:28
Speaker 1: was saying. Sometimes he made good points. There, times people
23:33
Speaker 1: were like, can you please shut up so we can
23:36
Speaker 1: move on? It's not really relevant. The former classmate recalled, well,
23:40
Speaker 1: we all know about people like that too. How many
23:42
Speaker 1: of you have had somebody like that in a class?
23:44
Speaker 1: or in like a work meeting or something. There's always
23:47
Speaker 1: somebody in a work meeting that has to ask an
23:49
Speaker 1: extra question or two, right? You're trying to get out
23:51
Speaker 1: of the meeting and they want to ask about something
23:53
Speaker 1: ridiculous that nobody even really cares about. So basically, that's
23:57
Speaker 1: what this dude's saying that Koberger used to do. Go
24:01
Speaker 1: off on tangents and people would roll their eyes and
24:03
Speaker 1: be like, all right, enough is enough. The DeSalas graduate
24:07
Speaker 1: said he was in two classes with Koberger. One about
24:10
Speaker 1: criminal theory taught by Michelle Bulger, Ph.D., and a second
24:14
Speaker 1: taught by Catherine Ramsland, PhD that focused on serial killers.
24:20
Speaker 1: The DeSalas alumnus said in Bulger's class, Koberger would sometimes
24:24
Speaker 1: talk over the professor. Ramsland told Law and Crime over
24:28
Speaker 1: the weekend that she is not making statements to the
24:30
Speaker 1: media at this time. Yeah, I bet she isn't. Can
24:34
Speaker 1: you imagine what she feels like right now? This is
24:36
Speaker 1: her student, one of her protégés, and he's out here
24:39
Speaker 1: using everything he learned in the classroom to try and
24:42
Speaker 1: commit these crimes. Probably not a comfortable conversation for old Dr.
24:47
Speaker 2: Ramsland here.
24:49
Speaker 1: The former student said the class on serial killers focuses
24:53
Speaker 1: on the psychology and the anatomy of the brain and
24:56
Speaker 1: that the material was presented professionally and deftly. Bulger has
25:01
Speaker 1: not responded to an email seeking comment. And I'm sure
25:04
Speaker 1: the police have talked to her as well and talked
25:07
Speaker 1: to Ramsland and they probably have told them, mum's the word.
25:11
Speaker 1: They don't want this stuff to get out. they want
25:13
Speaker 1: to keep this as close to the vest as possible.
25:16
Speaker 1: And they want to keep as much information under wraps
25:19
Speaker 1: as possible until it's time for discovery. Because when discovery comes,
25:23
Speaker 1: they want to drop a mountain of evidence on these folks,
25:26
Speaker 1: meaning on the defense, as close to trial time as possible.
25:30
Speaker 1: Another former DeSalas student said she didn't know Koberger well,
25:34
Speaker 1: but remembered him in their master's program as being quiet
25:38
Speaker 1: and a bit strange. The woman added, he kept to
25:41
Speaker 1: himself and had a deadpan look in his eyes if
25:44
Speaker 1: you looked at him. Meanwhile, an undergraduate student at Washington
25:48
Speaker 1: State University recalled taking a class last semester where Brian
25:52
Speaker 1: Koberger was a teaching assistant. She recalled Koberger only being
25:56
Speaker 1: in class three or four times during the semester and
25:59
Speaker 1: her professor, John Snyder, telling the class that Koberger was
26:03
Speaker 1: a harsh grader. For that reason, she said, she never
26:06
Speaker 1: approached him. She recalled Snyder telling Koberger to be nice
26:10
Speaker 1: when grading and joking that he could be hard on
26:12
Speaker 1: students' papers. So this guy was not only hanging out
26:16
Speaker 1: there as a student, he was also a TA. And
26:19
Speaker 1: he had classes, he was teaching kids, going over their homework.
26:22
Speaker 1: And if this man is guilty of the crimes that
26:25
Speaker 1: they say he was, think about how chilling that is.
26:29
Speaker 1: If he targeted these girls, how easily would it have
26:32
Speaker 1: been for him to target his own students even? So
26:37
Speaker 1: it's a pretty chilling fact to think about and to
26:39
Speaker 1: think that this could be a man who is capable
26:42
Speaker 1: of this sort of thing. He always got straight to
26:45
Speaker 1: the point when reviewing my papers. Pretty blunt, the student said.
26:49
Speaker 1: Professor Snyder has not responded to an email seeking comment.
26:54
Speaker 1: Koberger's extradition hearing will be held Tuesday afternoon in Monroe
26:58
Speaker 1: County at 3.30 p.m. Eastern Time. He could be returned
27:02
Speaker 1: to Idaho shortly thereafter. Labar confirmed that Koberger is a
27:06
Speaker 1: strict vegan and that the Monroe County Correctional Facility is
27:10
Speaker 1: making accommodations for his diet.
27:12
Speaker 2: Huh, must be nice.
27:13
Speaker 1: Imagine showing up and you got the jail making accommodations
27:17
Speaker 1: for your diet. However, Labar said he is most concerned
27:22
Speaker 1: about Koberger's rights as a criminal defendant. I do not
27:26
Speaker 1: want Brian tried in the court of public opinion, Labar said.
27:29
Speaker 1: Let's wait until the facts come out. Let's not assume anything.
27:33
Speaker 1: It's so important that you don't jump to conclusions. Well,
27:36
Speaker 1: maybe if you're talking to jurors, but to the rest
27:39
Speaker 1: of us, I don't know what you want us to
27:41
Speaker 1: do or think or say, but we're going to talk
27:43
Speaker 1: about it. And people across the globe are going to
27:47
Speaker 1: talk about it. This story has captured everybody's attention. When
27:52
Speaker 1: you have somebody who is deranged, somebody who is capable
27:55
Speaker 1: of walking into a home and murdering four people in
27:58
Speaker 1: their sleep, you better believe people are going to be
28:01
Speaker 1: paying attention to the story and people are going to
28:03
Speaker 1: want more details. And right now, we're getting details to
28:07
Speaker 1: trickle out. But once we get access to the arrest affidavit,
28:11
Speaker 1: the charging documents, and all of that other stuff, it's
28:14
Speaker 1: going to be an avalanche. But until then, we'll be
28:17
Speaker 1: here adding episodes to the catalog as we continue to
28:21
Speaker 1: swim through the muck, searching for some clarity. All right, folks,
28:25
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
28:27
Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci
28:30
Speaker 1: at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find
28:39
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
28:45
Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
28:51
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. So we're getting a
28:54
Speaker 1: little bit of information about Brian Kohlberger's time in the
28:58
Speaker 1: lockup in Pennsylvania and what went down there. Now, we
29:02
Speaker 1: heard some pretty crazy rumors, honestly, about him exposing himself
29:08
Speaker 1: and singing rap lyrics and all kinds of other stuff
29:11
Speaker 1: that didn't track with me from the jump. And it
29:14
Speaker 1: turned out that all of that was not true. However,
29:18
Speaker 1: we're getting new information from some more, let us say,
29:22
Speaker 1: solid sources about And they're talking about what Brian Kohlberger
29:27
Speaker 1: ate while he was in prison and about an exchange
29:29
Speaker 1: with one of the other prisoners who was in the
29:32
Speaker 1: lockup at the time. So let's get into Fox News
29:35
Speaker 1: real quick and let's see what this short update has
29:39
Speaker 1: for us. Headline, Brian Koberger makes tasteless joke in Pennsylvania prison.
29:47
Speaker 1: The Idaho murder suspect is accused of fatally stabbing four
29:50
Speaker 1: college students on November 13th. This article was authored by
29:55
Speaker 1: Rebecca Rosenberg. Brian Koberger made a tasteless joke while locked
30:01
Speaker 1: up in Pennsylvania prison for five days, according to a
30:04
Speaker 1: new report. A source inside the Monroe County Correctional Facility
30:10
Speaker 1: told News Nation that the accused mass murderer was asked
30:13
Speaker 1: why he killed four college students in Moscow, Idaho. I
30:16
Speaker 1: didn't do anything, he allegedly shot back. When the 28-year-old
30:20
Speaker 1: PhD student was asked why he had been in Moscow,
30:24
Speaker 1: an 8-mile drive from his apartment in Pullman, Washington, he
30:27
Speaker 1: allegedly retorted, the shopping is better in Idaho. Now, obviously,
30:33
Speaker 1: this is from sources within the jail in Monroe County,
30:36
Speaker 1: so take it with a grain of salt, but I
30:38
Speaker 1: can see an exchange like that happening, much more than
30:41
Speaker 1: the one we heard about previously. First of all, are
30:44
Speaker 1: women even locked up with men? And if they are,
30:47
Speaker 1: that jail system needs to re-evaluate what's going on because
30:51
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's plenty of instances where dudes are exposing
30:54
Speaker 1: themselves to female inmates if they're in jail. So probably
30:58
Speaker 1: a good idea to have a female prison or a
31:00
Speaker 1: female jail and one for the males as well. So
31:03
Speaker 1: that story from Daily Mail didn't really track with me.
31:07
Speaker 1: I didn't think that that was something that was in
31:09
Speaker 1: the realm of possibility even. But here, it certainly sounds
31:13
Speaker 1: a little bit more plausible. Sounds like something an inmate
31:16
Speaker 1: would be doing or saying, right? Asking questions. Somebody's in
31:19
Speaker 1: the jail cell in holding or whatever. They're going to
31:23
Speaker 1: get hit up by other inmates. What are you in
31:25
Speaker 1: here for?
31:26
Speaker 2: Why are you here? What did you do? That kind
31:28
Speaker 2: of thing.
31:29
Speaker 1: And then if you're in there for an extended period
31:31
Speaker 1: of time, there's other things that go on as well. Like,
31:34
Speaker 1: let me see your paperwork. And if you've done something
31:37
Speaker 1: that the inmates find to be gross or out of bounds,
31:42
Speaker 1: if you will, meaning you hurt children or stuff like that,
31:45
Speaker 1: then possibly you're going to find yourself getting a green light.
31:49
Speaker 1: And that means everybody in the prison is going to
31:51
Speaker 1: be looking to F you up. Kohlberger spent five days
31:56
Speaker 1: locked up at the Stroudsburg prison after his arrest Friday
32:00
Speaker 1: at his parents' home in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. On charges, he
32:03
Speaker 1: knifed to death Kaylee Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogan, and
32:08
Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle in a rental home near campus. Kohlberger was
32:13
Speaker 1: outfitted with a suicide vest and housed in a cell
32:16
Speaker 1: with a glass door that offered little privacy, according to
32:19
Speaker 1: the report. And we also heard that he spent a
32:21
Speaker 1: lot of time facing the wall. That's another thing that
32:24
Speaker 1: we heard from someone who says they're a correctional facility
32:27
Speaker 1: guard at this facility. So that was another one of
32:31
Speaker 1: the bits of information we got out that was running
32:34
Speaker 1: counter to what we had heard previously about his behavior,
32:38
Speaker 1: singing rap lyrics and all this other stuff. Now, I
32:42
Speaker 1: highly doubt that Brian Koberger is sitting around pumping out
32:46
Speaker 1: Lil Wayne lyrics while he's locked in the clink. It
32:49
Speaker 1: would seem more likely to me he'd be spending that
32:51
Speaker 1: time just sitting there and not saying anything. As a
32:54
Speaker 1: criminologist or somebody studying to be one, you know the
32:58
Speaker 1: more things that you say, the more talking you do,
33:01
Speaker 1: the worse it's going to be for you later on
33:03
Speaker 1: down the road. Koberger was outfitted with a suicide vest
33:07
Speaker 1: and housed in a cell with a glass door that
33:09
Speaker 1: offered little privacy, according to the report. Another inmate allegedly
33:14
Speaker 1: threatened the life of the high-profile jailer who had been
33:17
Speaker 1: studying criminology at Washington State University. And again, this does
33:22
Speaker 1: not strike me as something way too out of bounds,
33:24
Speaker 1: especially if that other inmate is somebody with a large
33:27
Speaker 1: rap sheet, somebody that's in there for violent crimes themselves.
33:31
Speaker 1: They're looking for notoriety, right? You show up on the
33:34
Speaker 1: prison yard and you've assaulted Brian Koberger before you get there. Well,
33:39
Speaker 1: the rest of the dudes in your car are already
33:41
Speaker 1: lining up to give you props. And that might sound
33:44
Speaker 1: bizarre as shit to me and you, but you have
33:46
Speaker 1: to remember who we're dealing with here. We're dealing with
33:49
Speaker 1: people who are in prison, we're dealing with prisoners, and
33:51
Speaker 1: we're dealing with people who really don't have the same
33:54
Speaker 1: kind of outlook on life that you or I would.
33:58
Speaker 2: Fuck you.
33:59
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill you. See the unnamed inmate as
34:02
Speaker 1: he allegedly flashed Koberger, his middle finger, News Nation reported.
34:07
Speaker 1: So old boy was obviously agitated that he was in
34:10
Speaker 1: the cell near Kohlberger and for whatever reason decided he
34:14
Speaker 1: was going to take out his anger on Brian Kohlberger,
34:16
Speaker 1: telling him he was going to kill him. And then
34:19
Speaker 1: for good measure, tossed in a Bronx salute at the
34:22
Speaker 1: end of it, just to let Kohlberger know how he
34:24
Speaker 1: really felt about him. And unfortunately for Brian Kohlberger, he
34:28
Speaker 1: can expect a lot of this in jail or in prison.
34:31
Speaker 1: If you're in jail or in prison and you're someone
34:33
Speaker 1: of notoriety, you're automatically a target. So if and when
34:38
Speaker 1: he gets convicted, if it does go that route, he's
34:41
Speaker 1: probably going to have to go to protective custody. Unless,
34:44
Speaker 1: of course, they do go all the way and give
34:47
Speaker 1: him the death penalty. Because if that's the case, then
34:50
Speaker 1: he's going to be on death row. The source added
34:55
Speaker 1: that Kohlberger's request for vegan meals at the facility was granted.
34:59
Speaker 1: He dined on peanut butter and jelly, applesauce, vegetables, beans, rice, cereal,
35:06
Speaker 1: and maybe some potatoes, according to the news site. So
35:09
Speaker 1: he was able to get his vegan fare while he
35:11
Speaker 1: was in this lockup. They made the concessions for him
35:15
Speaker 1: and gave him some vegan food instead of making him eat,
35:18
Speaker 1: you know, protein or whatever. Now, we've heard in the
35:20
Speaker 1: past that Brian Koberger was such a militant vegan that
35:24
Speaker 1: if he went to somebody's home, that person whose home
35:27
Speaker 1: it was would have to cook for him in brand
35:30
Speaker 1: new pans and pots because he can't even have the
35:32
Speaker 1: thought of meat in a pot previously cooked. entering his
35:36
Speaker 1: brain as he's eating his food. So that is somebody
35:40
Speaker 1: who is certainly what we would call militant about their diet.
35:45
Speaker 1: And then if you put somebody like that in prison
35:47
Speaker 1: and they're forced to eat whatever's coming, boy, that can't
35:50
Speaker 1: be fun. Just ask Elaine Maxwell. The source described Kohlberger
35:55
Speaker 1: as creepy and said he got to shower every day,
35:58
Speaker 1: but he had to wear a suicide smock in his cell.
36:01
Speaker 1: And that is pretty common when you have somebody of
36:04
Speaker 1: notoriety get locked up like this. The authorities want to
36:07
Speaker 1: make sure that this person is not going to kill themselves,
36:10
Speaker 1: that this person is going to face justice. And it's
36:15
Speaker 1: up to the authorities in these facilities to make sure
36:18
Speaker 1: that the people under their care are kept safe or
36:22
Speaker 1: as safe as possible. And at the very least, they're
36:24
Speaker 1: able to make.
36:25
Speaker 2: It to trial.
36:26
Speaker 1: So you'll see these guys get these suicide vests, these smocks,
36:30
Speaker 1: as opposed to the regular prison jumpsuits that are distributed
36:34
Speaker 1: to other inmates. And as far as them being creepy, well,
36:37
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some bias at work there, right? The
36:40
Speaker 1: dude's in there for a quadruple homicide charge. I'm thinking
36:44
Speaker 1: that anyone that's in the prison or jail is probably
36:47
Speaker 1: going to find him a.
36:48
Speaker 2: Little bit creepy.
36:50
Speaker 1: Koberger waived extradition Tuesday in the Monroe County Courthouse and
36:54
Speaker 1: was flown to Pullman, Washington the next day in a
36:57
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police Pilatus PC-12 single-engine turboprop plane flight record show.
37:05
Speaker 1: He's due to go before a judge Thursday morning. in
37:08
Speaker 1: Latah County Court to face four charges of first degree
37:12
Speaker 1: murder and one count of felony burglary. The probable cause
37:16
Speaker 1: affidavit outlining the details of the alleged knife wielding rampage
37:20
Speaker 1: against the four University of Idaho students will be released
37:24
Speaker 1: on Thursday, police have said. And just to reiterate, it's
37:29
Speaker 1: very important what's in that charging document. It's very important
37:32
Speaker 1: what the probable cause affidavit has to say. And what
37:36
Speaker 1: evidence that they had to arrest Brian Koberger. That's all
37:40
Speaker 1: going to play a huge part, obviously, in getting a conviction.
37:43
Speaker 1: Because if anything is out of line, any sort of
37:46
Speaker 1: competent defense attorney is going to be able to parlay
37:49
Speaker 1: that into something for her client. So that's why the
37:53
Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit and those charging documents are not only
37:56
Speaker 1: important for the public, but important for Brian Koberger himself.
38:02
Speaker 1: Moscow police have not disclosed a motive or recovered the
38:06
Speaker 1: fixed blade knife they believe Koberger used in the horrific attack. Now, again,
38:11
Speaker 1: there's some people who think that Brian Koberger or whoever
38:14
Speaker 1: did this held on to that knife. I am not
38:17
Speaker 1: one of those people. I believe that that knife is
38:19
Speaker 1: long gone. If he was smart, that knife would be
38:22
Speaker 1: in a body of water. It would be in a sewer.
38:25
Speaker 1: It would be somewhere that it would never, ever, ever
38:28
Speaker 1: be recovered. But then I say to myself, he was
38:31
Speaker 1: dumb enough to drive himself in his own car. So
38:34
Speaker 1: is the knife somewhere hanging out ready for the police
38:37
Speaker 1: to find at some point? That would be great as
38:40
Speaker 1: far as the conviction goes. If you have the murder weapon,
38:43
Speaker 1: it really goes a long way to getting a jury
38:46
Speaker 1: to bite on what you're selling. Now, you don't need
38:49
Speaker 1: the murder weapon, but it makes things a whole hell
38:52
Speaker 1: of a lot easier. And in a complex case like this,
38:56
Speaker 1: the prosecution is going to want to have every advantage
38:58
Speaker 1: that they can possibly have. They want to make sure
39:01
Speaker 1: that they have a conviction at the end of all
39:04
Speaker 1: of this. And to do that, they're going to have
39:06
Speaker 1: to make sure that everything that they're doing right now
39:10
Speaker 1: is ironclad and unimpeachable. So I thought it was interesting
39:15
Speaker 1: to get a little look behind the scenes. at Brian
39:17
Speaker 1: Koberger's time in that lockup in Pennsylvania, according to this source. Obviously,
39:23
Speaker 1: we always have to add that caveat. It's a source
39:25
Speaker 1: that's giving this information. So take it for what you will.
39:30
Speaker 1: Either way, that's going to do it for this one.
39:32
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
39:34
Speaker 1: at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can
39:44
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
39:51
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.