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What Happens When You Stop Being the One Behind the Curtain · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to Kind of a Big Deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kristen Belden.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, please hit subscribe.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: It helps more awesome folks like you find the show, ensures you don't miss an episode, and honestly means the world to me.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest and I go way back.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like sat across from each other in a bar in Oakland, telling the other woman why she was such a badass back.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: We recorded this conversation last year, and it still feels just as relevant today.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah spent years working behind the scenes in politics and philanthropy before she took the leap to build her own thing and now co-runs her own strategy firm.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about what it actually feels like to go from being the person behind the person to being the one people are looking to directly to what 40 is teaching her about giving fewer shits and getting to know herself again.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Meet Sarah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Sarah.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, how are you?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so good and so happy to be sitting across from you, even if it's virtually, I'm still happy to be here with you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was reflecting on before I do your proper introduction, very important to share that Sarah was the third of the three of us that sat across from each other in a bar in Oakland sharing with the other woman in front of us why we thought she was such a badass and how incredible she was.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was chatting about this with Gretchen, who was on the show prior, that it's kind of a full circle thing to now be doing this show because that's kind of the whole premise of it is here are these incredible women walking in the world, building lives and careers that they're proud of.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's listening, no, no, no, no, not me, or it must have been somebody else.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or I, you know, maybe I did this part of it, but I don't know.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it was a team effort.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things can be true, and uh also it is a big deal, these things that we're doing and building in the world, and so I think I'm just it's so fun to now be in this conversation however many years later, and to reflect back on that moment, which I don't even know now how many years ago that was.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It must have been at least COVID 20, if it's 2017, 2018.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So almost 10 years ago.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's crazy.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, and how far we've come, and in so many ways we haven't.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly it.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have stopped to say, oh, and I get praised, but oh, that wasn't a big deal.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my head, I'm like, wait, that was a lot of work.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was horrible.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, to say thank you.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: How long does that take?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: A few decades?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know why I mean, I mean I'm not gonna open the why is that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was just listening to Brene Brown talk about this around you're actually doing a disservice to other women.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it wasn't Brene, it was some other amazing woman.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, basically saying the more we can learn to just say thank you, full stop.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was Shonda Rhymes.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's who it was.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was Shonda Rhymes because she just came out with a new edition of her book, Year of Yes, which if you haven't read it, you must.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's so so good.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but she talks about that, how it is a massive disservice to other women who are watching us and learning us and just coming up in their career to not be able to feel that empowerment and let it just be what it is.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we need to show that you can own your wins.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a giant kind of middle finger to the person giving you a compliment when you're like, no, it totally is.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: It also can make a second guess.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I guess she didn't do that much in that project.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, have you done?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly that.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was literally her point of then you're making them question, like, am I well?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I thought they were this cool person.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening here?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, all that to say Sarah is amazing, and I got to share with her all those years ago why she was amazing then.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get to talk about why she's amazing now.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: But she is based in the Central Valley of California, Fresno, to be specific, and that is where I did a lot of work in those years.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we met when she was working at the community foundation there, and she is just a true this is so interesting, actually.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a couple of conversations recently with women who I know that are just wild, wicked, smart, like the way you think about the world, the way you process data, everything that comes into that brain of yours, for some, it would be like, I I cannot hold that up here.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's not for me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hold that, but you have a way of talking about things, and this is true for the other two women I was just mentioning, that makes it feel human, that makes it feel like I can connect to what you're talking about, and so you process all of this really complex info, and then you package it all up in a way that's like, oh, I actually kind of I think I understand what's going on here, and I think that's a true gift of yours.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she's just a crazy fun person to hang out with, as you might have uh assumed by the bar conversation.
• 5:11
  unknown: I know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I let them take that compliment easily on.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally right.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a good hang.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um she's had a really, really interesting, fun, cool journey.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: She is now working.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she has her own business with a business partner that she'll talk a bit about.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really curious to kind of hear how that journey.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking a little bit before we jumped into the recording about how that has played out for each of us and and what it looks like to go from being a full-time employee to building on your own.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure we'll jump into that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: But just thank you for being here, Sarah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to get to chat.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm really excited to be here too.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for inviting me and then dealing with me going, like, are you sure you want to talk to me?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is gonna be a fun ride.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh I appreciate it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've been watching uh this series that you've done and the women that you've been talking to, and it's been pretty awesome because some in my network, some not in my network, but people that I highly respect and people that have developed their own, I don't want to say lanes because they can go in and out of them, but have been like, okay, this is what I'm doing, this is great, this is so awesome.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, you know, if you want someone that wants to talk about journalism, you know who you should talk to?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Misty.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're all not trying to do everything.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're all just going, DG need to know about this manufacturing piece.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Gretchen's amazing.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's so supportive, and um, it's just one of those things where you've created a series of women that are moving up but that keep sending the elevator back down for everyone to come back up on.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been cool, and I'm excited to go on this little recording with you.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I literally, one of my one of my friends that interviewed was saying, Wait, how do I not know this other person that's in your world?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: She's incredible.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a second, why did I not know that you knew this person?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about what she's doing.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: The majority of the women that I've chatted with have said something about that being meaningful to them, that they care deeply about making sure that others are also lifted up while also working on their own, you know, kind of ambition and success.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's just a testament to how badass women are, which is I know it's not true across the board, but I do think that for the most part, women do want to see other women winning.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do we make sure that we're doing that in a way, and in a way that is authentic and true for the next generation of women that's coming in, right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's also it can be difficult not to want to be prescriptive about because based on our own experiences, but I'm already seeing differences in the way some of the conversations I've had with younger women.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I would have never asked that question when I was your age.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never even thought to think that.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that that's how you're showing up, with there's already more intention behind it than I gave until like two years ago.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, absolutely.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've moved past the moment of I'm Gen X ennial.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you X?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like right in between.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the I'm literally 81, which is the year that does not get assigned to either or.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's really bizarre.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's right there between the two.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm both.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's a sweet spot though, because Gen X is awesome.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And millennials have also greatly changed the way that we do with so much work.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm leaning into all of these different generational gaps in the workface, but mostly just generational workplace and how it all works together.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying so hard just to understand, but it's true, they show up so differently.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I showed up so timid, and I'm just gonna do what I've said, I'm not gonna do anything, I'm not gonna, you know, rock the boat, I'm gonna do my job, do it so well, and then leave.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't trying to do anything really crazy when I first entered the workforce.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was just, I didn't know any any better.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: There weren't a plethora of mentors that were like, hey, yeah, let's talk about it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, hey, here's your excitement, go to work.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where when you, you know, rewind all the way back to early career days, what were you into?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: What were you excited about?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And how has that evolved over the years?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't actually know your early days.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: What where did you start?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: How what were those early years like for you?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to the Press Estates and I was a poly science major.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a poly science major, you either go to school again, or you figure out like, is there this world in government or politics that you want to do?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad was a judge, as you will see from his campaign sign that I from 1986 or so.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, oh, let's see, is this something?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up interning in local government at the city of Fresno with a local council member, and we had to do 20 hours.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up doing 80 because I was obsessed with this is so interesting.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I actually went in and we spent a whole day cleaning up street signs, and I was like, I feel like I'm doing something.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something I'd never realized was a job before.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then a job opened up at Senator Feinstein's office in their Central Valley office, which is 16 um counties, and then I got hired pretty quickly and as a staff assistant, and was like, oh my gosh, this is really big, a big deal.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember getting my key and it said, do not duplicate property of the government.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I went, oh my god, what have I done?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just started this moment of absolute panic.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it was, it was so I started there.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I started in the Fresno office answering phone calls from constituents in 2002, and it was right before the Iraq war.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to see the trajectory of government um swing from where we were then to now, especially in the Central Valley where we are purple.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I actually got to see how things were.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I met someone the other day.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is gonna happen with me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna start talking about other things, Kristen.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're it's okay.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll reel you back in when we need to.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he was like, I don't know, I don't know a Republican or Democratic Party that doesn't have the players that we have now.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they only know a Trump Republican Party, and I'm like, oh, but remember Paul Ryan?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, no.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, these are all so interesting that I see how the value has progressed, but anyway, I'm gonna go back.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so I need to just say this.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is so interesting because I knew that you worked in Feinstein's office for so many years and you had a true affinity for that work.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea you went from I didn't know that that was the very, very beginning.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was first job.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Senator Feinstein's office was my first job, and it was going in and then understanding everything.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can study this, but understanding, oh, there's an entire casework team that handles things from like the IRS to um you're having issues with different departments within the government, had no idea.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And understanding all the different ways that you can actually be helpful, and from the woman that was so brilliant, so smart, so established, who came from community, worked her way up, and was really only became mayor as a product of assassination.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like she just kept losing and losing, and there was just not a world where they were, in my mind, going to elect a woman to run that city.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: So to be able to learn from her was like far better than any education I think I could have ever had.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way that I am now, the way that I see things, the way I see through things and all the connectivity is absolutely because of that job.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I worked there for 15 years, and when you have 16 counties, you know, one day there's a fire, and by the end of my career with her, I was helping lead all fire efforts in the state of California of, okay, there's a fire happening, and then pretty soon she'd be like, Well, what's going on?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you immediately had to be like, it's 10,000 acres, there's this many trucks, there's all the stuff that's happening.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these are the assets they need, and here are the fuels that are fueling it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is what's going on.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or there would be moments where out of nowhere you'd have to become an expert on the most random thing.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're going to Downville Canyon, we're going to talk about nuclear energy.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah, how many reactors are there?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, okay.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we I was able to work across so many different sectors from 16 counties.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you look San Luis Obispo, from Kern all the way up to Stockton and San Joaquin, and then the mountains on the other side.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're able to meet with people every single week, go into their communities and actually see how government is affecting them negatively or positively, and then actually get to go to your desk and go like, okay, that seems wrong.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can't we fix that?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And working for a woman that was like, yes, we there are solutions to these problems.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: We can pull people together.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just because they're saying, Oh, we don't do that, that never was in her vocabulary.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: She worked across aisles and it was very much so embedded in our office of we know that they're fighting above us, put your head down and do the work.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then every week, and I have I'm mentoring someone in the Inland Empire right now who's also we had to do weeklies, and every weekly was this is what I did, this is what they want, this is what my recommendation.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she would read a hundred pages or so of this every weekend.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it forced you to go, okay, I'm gonna do this, but then that critical analysis that you sometimes don't use, and sometimes it can be left behind of you know, the win of some people's, I went to that meeting, wasn't it great?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then they go on with their lives, and I'm like, oh God, no, I will start panicking.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, there's work before the meeting, there's work after the meeting, what did you get from the meeting?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was able to all honestly, all of my instincts came from that office.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: The way that I approach things came from that office, the care of all of it, even when I disagree, I can immediately go, you know, I don't agree with you, um, but I appreciate what you're saying.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to take in someone that just doesn't agree with me and actually have a conversation.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, my my mentor eventually when I was in my job for a little bit on the outside of the office was someone that worked for a Republican senator, and is to this day are we're wonderful friends and we absolutely disagree on a lot of things.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But that person kept me on a line of you are new in this industry, you are young, here are the here are the traps that you can get into.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to stay in this, go down this road.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel really lucky that I had her because I saw people that didn't and went down a different path, and it was just so much harder.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um interesting.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to accept it, I wanted to like understand what was happening in Senator Feinstein's office, and that mentor gave me the space to process and then really go towards excellence in excellence, not in a toxic way, because I feel like excellence and toxic kind of go hand in hand.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can yes, um, but understanding why this person needs this to be where it's at.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna read this in front of the entire nation.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is this right, Sarah?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, okay, like that's great.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily with the California office, we can be like, this is what I think, and then the DC office will take it, and brilliant minds there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, we got it, and then we'll run it through.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, like my entire career was team effort, same team.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're in this together.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll we can we'll get through this, good or bad, we're all gonna get through it together.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like um it's funny?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a conversation with a woman who has been in the government relations lobbying space for mm decades.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's been her career.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she started a TikTok channel specifically during this last shutdown to kind of give information about what was happening and why it was happening, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: People were hungry.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: She had gone through, like during the Clinton administration, a shutdown and navigated what that meant.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so she understood what it looked like to have to move through these spaces and people were looking for info.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I promise I have a point here, which is we talked a lot about there is such a um the the public awareness of how their government works and what the government is there to do and to function as.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have such an incredible career of being in the trenches in these spaces, and you have such a deep, clear passion for it, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is a foundational awareness, I think, that's just embedded in who you are because of those years that you spent in service.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm curious if you have noticed more disillusionment happening with people as it relates to their awareness of how government works or their desire to even be in these conversations or to have an awareness of what's going on.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are you noticing that?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: You go back to like five years ago, everyone's like, don't talk about politics at Thanksgiving.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: To this year, everyone's like, I'm gonna blow up the world.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're gonna talk about it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I honestly think I always joke with people that I think that it would be so great if everyone at least worked six months at some point in their career in an elected office just to understand how things move and understand that you know, take the calls, understand that people are like they people rarely call to be like, you're doing a great job, red or blue.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're calling to tell you something that's going on and you're there to take it in.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that there is a desire to understand, and people are more engaged, I think, in government than before, whether that means going to vote, those are different things.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think polling showed us a lot in the last few years of oh, oh, someone's gonna win.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, actually, they're not.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that people are wanting to understand, but they can also find information based on what they want to hear.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's the kind of the information bubble or the confirmation bias.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: We are you can seek out the answer that you're looking for, not necessarily the answer.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's honestly sometimes it's an oversimplification of the whole issue.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I imagine that the amount of calls that we got and are like, like, someone got this, and this, she got them that contract, and it doesn't work that way.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: She can go and put things in appropriation, then there's funding, it doesn't work that way.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was this line equals this line, and we were gonna put it together because that seems so easy.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's never really that government is complicated, and people because they're really trying to safeguard.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am one of I feel one of the few people I love government, I want to believe in my government, and I think there's some wonderful people out there.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, like Senator Feinstein is amazing, and I considered her like a grandma to me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: She was just a lovely woman, and so I saw a really good model of it, and I've also se bad models of it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that there are ways to have government work with you, and I think there is a desire to actually do that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got an email earlier today from someone that was just like, oh, so-and-so just started a firm and we're gonna start an advocacy training series for people to get in and understand.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But that's it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, yes, they want to know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't know where to access it and how they get in.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and once you're there, how do you go and do it effectively?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can go and get your meeting and meet with them.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you go and you just say some random things and you're like, oh, are they gonna get back to me?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't, then you're completely again at the bottom and you're like, well, they don't know what they're doing, and they're not working for me, and they didn't listen to me.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Every client that I talk to, I feel like most of them they want to go, oh, I want to go to Sacramento and talk to a legislator.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always like, Why?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you want to talk about?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: What's your problem and what's your solution?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're not there to fix our problems.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I look at counties that are like Stanislos County, their government has been like, we're not waiting for the government to come in, we're gonna fix this ourselves.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: There are gonna be points where we need access point, we need funding, we need these things, but we can do this ourselves.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're not waiting for someone to come and save them.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's understanding what the role of government and where where it fits into your life and how you how it works.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it all goes back to education because I guess and there's really not a lot of well, I think about this a lot because I think yes, education is an important piece of it, and I mean, obviously, civics getting stripped out of schools is ridiculous, but I also feel like there's this huge gap between even if you are taught these things in school, even if but if there's not something that's piquing an interest or an awareness or something that gets it to sink in, yeah, then you come into adulthood and you're building a life and you're building a career and you're in the workforce, and those things feel so abstract from what you learned in a book to what the reality of life is.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: What is the education that can happen once you're out of school?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Once you're and I know there's you know great podcasts and stuff like that, but I don't know that I've ever found anything that I think is compelling enough that would get people hooked into okay, this is why I'm interested, unless they are facing a very specific challenge in their own personal life.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then all of a sudden they're like, oh, now I need to learn how to advocate for X, Y, and Z.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I better understand how this works, right?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there is a way.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Crystal, actually, who I was just chatting about, she started a podcast called Topless Government, which is blowing the top off of government and how it works, which I thought was brilliant.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there needs to be something that's enticing enough about it to get people back into why it matters and why they should care, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, maybe you know of resources that we don't know about.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if they're there.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there people are trying to do a lot of different things.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we with what you just said and with local with government in general, that we're just living a land of competing interests.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many things that everyone cares about.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so even education with government on those, it could be different if you care about housing if or if you care about immigration.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: There are just different ways.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't met I haven't seen one really cool, hey, this is how you, this is how you navigate government, you know.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've been doing a little bit of work with the state and I did this conversation with some of the regions for California Jobs First about even just going and meeting with your elected official and understanding your role and what you're there to do.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean a lot of what this is is you're really there to enhance your work and elevate it and then align your vision with that elected official's vision, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: If and I think if you're going in just to be like, I want you to care about this, if you're going to someone to talk about education and they don't care one bit about it, but they sure as heck care about workforce, how are you talking about that in that way?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's that an education piece is absolutely needed, but also understanding who you're going to go talk to, under the education of that elected official, why they're there, because at the end of the day they're human too.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean for you and them?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: You guys can have absolutely great wins or you can have some misalignment that's probably there just from the lack of coordination.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, I mean I would love if that actually existed.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just consultants doing it on the side that are working really hard to develop that working roadmap that's linking policy, aligning their outreach, and then making sure that there are no missed opportunities.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mean it would be amazing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think it's I mean that is such a skill you're speaking to a life skill too.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just when you're going to speak to an elected you you need to be thinking about it's like in anything in any negotiation in any relationship that you care about.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to meet that person where they're at or you looking for a raise or a new position.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I made the biggest mistake of my career when I was younger and I walked right into my boss's office and was like I should get a raise because I you know looked on glass door and here's the median income and my whatever dumbass thing I was doing in my 20s because I didn't know any better.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I will never forget she literally looked at me and said don't ever do that again.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and she's like not just here but ever in your career you just shot yourself in the foot.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna work with you on this because I want you to learn from this moment.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely right because and it could have been a different conversation had I gone in saying I want to hear what you need I want to hear what your pain points are.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help be one of the ones that solves that there are other ways to approach these conversations and I think you're just speaking to uh something that we should all probably be doing in general right yeah absolutely I think it's honestly it's so important just to normalize the actual conversations with your elected officials.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think they are humans too trying to actually to do things in your community and they're only as good as people coming in and being helpful to that conversation as well.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: People come with coalitions together people come with data.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: You have the things that can fuel some of the decisions that they want but it's coming in equipped and knowing where to go and how to do it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you really want to make yourself it all goes back to the same team.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can be on the same team on a variety of issues and then some you're just like no you go ahead that's not for me.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for that one elected that's going to be all encompassing of everything you believe they don't exist.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah right well yes true in life in general I think right I would love for you to talk a little bit so you spend 15 years in Feinstein's office so much of your formative years are built during that time so what happened next and why what took you elsewhere what piqued your interest enough to have you leave hey quick pause before we get back into it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to conversations like this one and something keeps nudging you like I know I'm at some kind of turning point I just can't quite see it clearly yet that's actually exactly what I do.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I work with women leaders who are in the middle of something a career shift a business that's ready to evolve a moment where what got you here just isn't cutting it anymore.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes what you need most isn't a whole program or a big engagement.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: You just need a few hours with someone who can help you see what you're too close to see yourself.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's the clarity session.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a focused one-on-one conversation where we dig into where you are where you want to go and what's actually in the way you walk away with real direction not a list of homework but genuine clarity on your next move.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: If that sounds like what you need right now I'd love to talk.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can find all the details at Beldenstrategies dot com slash clarity.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me it was I think I hit where I was in the office.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was didn't really want to go to Washington DC I felt like being in the community was just more for me.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you know I started actually donating a lot of my time on the outside to the downtown Fresno Foundation and starting that nonprofit and had a downtown academy on the other side that was creating the next generation of champions in my own community.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I started pivoting to caring a little more about what was going happening regionally everything that we're doing in the state is so amazing and I'm so proud of this work and we did great things but I was being pulled emotionally and through my work I wanted to like care more about what was happening in my community.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like okay so as that was taking up my time and then also my friends and I decided to buy a brewery because that seemed like a great idea in downtown and it's still there it's happening.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So for me I was like okay I'm over here this is all happening I'm being pulled and at the same time our former mayor Ashley Swearingen had just finished her term she termed out as mayor at the city of Fresno and always looked up for her.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: We worked together a lot on the downtown Fresno movement to move things like the Tiger Grant to open Fulton and she announced her first wave of people leaving their jobs to go and work with her at the Central Valley Community Foundation.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember that I read it in the newspaper I was gutted and I was like why do I feel this way?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I feel left out?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I feel like this?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was realized oh I this I think my time here is done.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am ready to go and care about my community.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I feel a certain way that I'm not picked.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So then I went to Ashley's office within six months and I was like you know thinking about a new career I'm thinking of doing something I I want to do something else but I don't know what that is.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so Ashley was like give me a month and come back and then we'll talk about it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let me think about good jobs that will sue you.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then I come back a month later and before I sit down Ashley was like so I'm gonna hire you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just need some time to figure out some funding streams and I want you to come on and we were able at that time I was part of a grant to help work on education and we helped build the K-16 collaborative here just pull them together.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then six months later maybe four months later I was able to get into my new position.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So then I started as the inaugural director of external affairs at the Central Valley Community Foundation and there was a moment where I was with Ashley and I was like okay we're building this up what do you want to do and I was like well there's a lot of things that I still care about that I don't want to leave behind.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like you don't leave them behind you bring them here.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are there areas of synergy where we can work things out and for me at the time of the community foundation we started working on things there they were most community foundations in California were not talking about government.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going to one of the league meetings and they were like oh yeah we don't do that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in my mind I thought that's crazy.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the sweet spot of grading the world of philanthropy and government is so in needed because they can offset and fill in capital stacks and fill in in places where one of them can't and so we stayed in that lane and we started this thing called the Central Valley Legislators Roundtable which I now have going in the capital region where in Sacramento where you are and in Len Empire.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been great I got to bring all of the people all the district directors I used to work with in Feinstein's office.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to bring they all came back and we had a good table of about 20 of them partnered with the other community foundations we got them on board and we're like let's just actually elevate our work let's talk about we're doing open the curtain um good bad and different and start talking about this is what's going on in our community and here's the data behind it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to figure out the Central Valley has always been different and as a purple reason we want to figure out how can we work together.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's us against everyone else.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Every time someone has a narrative of San Francisco doesn't care about us or LA and I'm like who cares?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we care if they do we're trying to do our own thing we're trying to just do our work we embarked on some pretty big hefty things that we wanted to accomplish there.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at our build back better or our housing dollars our ag tech all the big financial ones that we were able to get we had been showing that to our elected officials and their staffs over a course of every quarter.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what's going on.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time we were like hey we need letters we need support for this they already knew what was going on.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: We had them so engaged that they felt like they were part of this entire team with us which they were they went on delegations.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that there were 17 plus applications of the state and we were the only ones left standing makes me feel so good because we actually did something where we made it it's us against everybody else and that we want this together.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the hard part of this work and I feel like you know this as well too is this work is amazing and it's hard and it's driven and it's purposeful but if we didn't get that no one would have known right but on the inside it weighs so heavy on you.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: You just want change so bad for your community.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: You want it so much and people have no idea that you're just battling and trying to get things and bring it back.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for me it was just like it was literally all or nothing.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're going we've all committed it is not a place you go to slow down and it was like we're all gonna run.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well such a unique experience too because I think to your point Ashley who if folks have never looked her up go do so there's nothing quite like seeing Ashley in her element she is one of truly like one of the most brilliant humans I've ever known the way she sees the world and is then able to translate that into progressive action is next level.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's she's a wizard I honestly like I don't know how she what how her brain is built is fascinating and her ability to be compelling and draw people in and her she's just fascinating.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to your point having been in politics prior that is not always the clear step for her community foundation so her awareness of bringing that world into this space to your point it was that's not the way it's typically done and so I think for you all to be in that space and to be able to create real change I mean I met you all when you were working on some really incredible initiatives and that will have talk about legacy and that is you know always the question that I ask everyone and that can mean so many different things but when you all get to tell the story of this time in a place that you care so much about I think what's important here is that it yes it can be in local politics but there's other avenues if you have the right people in the right places where change can be made but you have to be willing to be in the trenches for a little while.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that the community foundation showed me so much that there's a place for everybody on the team.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Community members came out of nowhere.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're elevating new people that are now leading organizations that were just not on the sideline but didn't again it kind of goes back to government couldn't find their path in and then find their worth in that path.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for me I love networking I hate the name networking but you like people oh I love it and I love looking at this person's there and I'm like oh my god that person knows this person this they can do this all the different connections that made the reality at the foundation we got really good of finding all the right connected pieces and then pushing things together.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really interesting for me to see because on the government side I saw government okay we're here and then you're here and then you're here and I'm like oh we just need to be an entire ecosystem.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and if we figure out this ecosystem first then we can start like really getting things together and start going after big giant things which is what we were able to do.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what a lot of the community foundations now do the amount of people that have government and policy departments is maybe half at this point.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so then walk us through you have now been independent for two years is that yeah I well I started in July of 23.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay yeah so two and a half yeah we talked a little bit about what that transition feels like to go from being an employee to building your own business and there's so much there.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um but maybe talk a little bit about what you're focused on now and what the last couple of years have looked like absolutely so that the transition from the Center Valley Community Foundation to ARK and strategies it was I don't know why I say it that way um ARK and strategy we um I it was pretty interesting I think during the we the built back better process that was at CBCF that was a full I would say 14 months of hard and one of the people that was there at that time is my business partner now and she was hired to do something else and then quickly discovered oh actually she's really great at economic development workforce let's work with her and have her lead this with Ashley and myself so the three of us were a bit of a triangle of okay we're all gonna go and we're gonna work hard and we're gonna move these big things.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: So during that process my business partner and I became really good friends.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: It helped build the worlds of what you're seeing and why what I'm seeing they're the same and they need to be more connected.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so we learned this process and then we won and then she it was really it was it was her it was Karen she decided I'm gonna go out on my own in January of 2023.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again I had that moment of oh cool I guess I'll see later I guess I guess our synergy is done and then at CBC every year was another big boom and that was the year we were going after the 250 million dollars for housing which we were able to secure which was lovely but it was that next big boom and I'm like okay this is interesting.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's been good but I think I want to try something a little different.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I want to see what's outside of this but I was able to like be a part of the California stewardship network and met a lot of different people that are in similar spaces but just needed that extra help to get elevated.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: They had all the right pieces all the pieces were there they just needed someone to help arrange them just to put them on a different path and I felt like we at CBCF were already on that path but then I looked at other areas and I was like oh man I wish I was in Inloam Empire working with their foundation because they are there that they just need this and they had this brilliant leader in Michelle Decker their CEO and I felt like pulled to different areas and the fun thing about if you're doing well in your job, you get a lot of job offers.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so a few of the of my clients actually were like hey you should come work for me and I was like you know I don't know if I want to do that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be in this singular topic area.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to continue to learn and that's something I got from Feinstein days where I had a state director where I think narcotics is amazing and I want to stay in this.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: We've done really cool stuff eliminating meth labs and I was so into it.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of photos I have with me wearing a police jacket looking at marijuana is ridiculous.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I sat with Karen and watched her trajectory and I was like I think we should do something together and we had this long conversation in her office at her house and we just started ripping up giant post-it boards of what could that look like?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who would we work for what would we care about?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want to do?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And after four hours we were like okay I think we can do this.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to the first client that I have ever had I went to that person and was like hey I'm thinking of doing this I'm thinking of moving and she's like okay let's figure this out let's go and so all of them started coming on board and I was like oh this is kind of amazing this is really cool.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it started the trajectory of where we're at now and all of my work is government and policy related strategy, capacity buildings within the CEO for this type of work and also building out your government affairs department.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not meant to be with you forever.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm meant to help build that up and help you get to where you need to go.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say though we could have really used you I had no idea what external affairs even was when I was when we were working together in a different capacity and I was tasked with building out our external affairs department and I'm like what's that?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's the jump drawer of your department corporate affairs as well yeah it's like special projects on a board it's the most epic place to be you can get to do different stuff um totally it is but to have somebody come in and actually help you think strategically about okay we know where we want to go and we know we need to be positioning ourselves differently in order to get there to have somebody with your brilliant mind come in and say okay here's how the puzzle comes together has to feel so good for someone that knows that they have the elements too but they just need that extra support to get there.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely it's they have so much it goes back to the little the drunk drawer there's so much there and I'm there picking things out and I'm like here are your three let's start there's what you still need.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you actually don't need 75 random straws in your drunk drawer.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: You really don't and that's it cool that you have it neat but let's work on these three things and the amount of traction we've been able to do with three things I got it let's go this way it doesn't mean you stop everything else you're doing it's these are the things based on what's happening in the federal and state government that can go that can move that there's traction all of these things that you can build around the support all of the different pieces just getting them to know that we don't have to own everything.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah is working on healthcare awesome let's support that what we want to lead on housing cool let's go that way that's our focus and getting them to understand that again I don't know why I keep saying same team but I feel like I say that all the time this is an entire team of people that are we if if someone else's project wins in your region we win.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Totally yes it doesn't but there is such a scarcity mindset I think specifically in the nonprofit sector right or anybody in the mission driven space it can be tricky because people do feel like oh if I'm not pulling in that funding directly then you know to shift that mindset into one win is we all win I don't know that that's an easy thing it's not to do.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not you're totally right and I think that's what's I mean you think there's still some with I see applications of the same thing I was looking at something the other day and it was like 13 applications in one region for the same thing and I want to go oh my God no it makes me think of that Brian Regan joke of trees passing on the freeway and he was like you got logs could have been fixed if someone called someone you know maybe it's that yes if we could just increase better our synergy and just understand oh when is every our community just getting better not who's standing there at the ribbon cutting.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Totally I know but it's so hard because we all have ego involved too which is I think you know unfortunately just the real truth of the human existence.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely the real and it's totally hard and it's easier said than done and there's been moments where I'm like oh I'm so glad they were at that ribbon cutting I was there you know to do it and then I'm like okay Sarah it's all good.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes you really need to be there.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've mentioned now a few times about being pulled to something being drawn to something being called to something do you feel like you've always been able to listen to that in yourself or is that something that you've kind of honed over the years?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I spent 15 years at Senator Feinside's office and I feel like there were moments where I was like oh is this it should I be doing this I think it had to be something where I was like this is it I'm out I gotta go and I think it's helpful when other people move on and you can see for me seeing someone else and seeing an example of it seems doable but I think I've also had a really good echo chamber of people that are just reiterating.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back to our first conversation you should really do this.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is really good of course you can do this yes you can yes you're entrepreneur someone validating yeah this is good and I still need that and I wish that it wasn't like that but it's just I feel like I'm always at the start line and I'm like okay I'm gonna go and then someone's like yeah you should go and I'm like okay I'm going.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes and I think I think it's something that I'm absolutely still working on but it goes back to I spent my entire career working behind somebody you know the person behind the person and I felt like it's a very safe space to be you could still make major change but to be the person that was now going to stand up and then I'm the one that people are going to listen directly to for me that was the hardest jump.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was really difficult and now I'm here and settling into it and it's kind of wonderful and empowering and cool but um it it it took a while yes I'm so glad you went there because I think you and I are we have led parallel lives in that way and there can be that and I think it's important to say because I think sometimes there can be this as women leaders are evolving this kind of tendency to how do I want to say this it might not be a tendency I have I saw this for myself and I had to get really careful about what I meant when I was evolving around it does not mean that what I did or what I've done is wrong or didn't matter.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: The the being the person behind the person right that's not bad per se.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but there is a moment I think that happens especially if you're gonna build on your own or especially if you're going into a totally new sector, new job, new whatever, where you have to ask yourself well what of that am I bringing with me and what of that am I letting go?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if part of my evolution is to as you were saying be more external facing be more of the face be more of the person that people are looking to for the answer there can be a moment of like oh gosh I wish I would have Maybe I should have done that before.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Did you grapple with that at all?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or was it a I'm asking this very selfishly because I had to really sit with that a little bit.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm burying my own lead here, which is I think I had to go.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, no.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: All of that led to this, and all of that led to the moment that I'm in now, and that is also okay.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I would have made a few different decisions earlier on.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that doesn't mean that all that has to kind of get thrown out.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is that making any sense?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: It makes dip absolutely, it makes perfect sense.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you could sit there and think of moments right now where you were like, that was my time to leave.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think about that and then I sat right back down in my chair.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and it was those moments of I was really minimizing my own perceived risk of leaving, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: What does the outside look like?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: What is that going on?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I guess I could go here and I guess I can do this.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was mostly I was so much in my head when really I now look back and I was like, I should have just jumped.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: People were talking to us because they wanted to and they found value in it.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for us to take off that imposter syndrome and throw it on the ground and be like, okay, actually, it's us.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: It has nothing to do with who's feeding us jobs.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I am far more accepting now.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and just growing up, I feel like that's what it is growing up in my 40s.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, 40s is kind of great.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you just I keep saying this.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've said this a million times.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've I'm sure I've shared this story here, but there is something about giving less shits, allowing yourself to fully, I feel like in my 40s, it's almost like I'm getting to know myself again.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I'm uncovering layers of things that I cared about that I had kind of forgotten, or there is such an interesting thing that happens in your 40s, and I've heard from others that it just continues to get even better.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm here for it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can have this negative connotation specifically as women, as what it means to age.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh no, bring it.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is the hard-earned wisdom that comes from having seen that you can walk through difficult things and you do make it to the other side, whatever that other side is, whether it was the outcome you were looking for or not, you will manage through it in some way, shape, or form, and you will be different because of it.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that is incredible because then it does, I think, build a life that you, you know.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: I loved my 20s and I loved my 30s.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I loved all of it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm really loving what it means to evolve into the next chapter, and I think you can't do that until you've had some of those experiences first, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have that foundation.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I look at myself now and like how freeing it is to say, Oh, I don't know.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, like I really missed the bar on that one, but I'll go, oh, I messed that, but I'll go do that.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel just freer in like, no, it's exactly what you said.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: I know who I am now because I took this jump to be this outwardly facing person.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just I just love it.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been a really fun, cool journey.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: All of my clients on my side, and I know that my business partner loves when I say my clients instead of our clients.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty sure she gets gonna run through it and be like, get it together.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's they're all strong, powerful women that also just need that thought partnership too.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so happy, and I hate saying lucky or blessed, because I feel like we've all made some really hard, awesome, interesting decisions to have the circle of friends that we have, the actual thought partners that we know we can call and go, hey, I is this right, is this good?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm not doing this well, to actually have those moments in the people that I know that I can call to build me up, um, to also level set me of you need to calm down.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're in a full spin, Sarah.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: You need to just go and sit in your chair.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: The ones that are just like the ride or dies that are with you on this.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the ones that are like, they're not even asking where are we going and why do we have to die.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, let's just go.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll figure it out.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: We used to say it was who are you gonna take to the car wash with you, which is a little bit of a silly analogy to who is gonna be in the foxhole with you.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think especially as women, we have to be very careful about who we allow to speak into that.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to be very intentional because we can, you know, want to support and do everything for others, and not necessarily always for ourselves, and so it can be easy to allow other people because we're literally trying to just do what we think is right, which is well, of course, that person has my best interest, whatever it is.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: So to hone that, I think, is also really important over the years of how are you identifying who the people are that you do want to come ride or die with you.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have two last questions for you.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: One is, do you have any advice for anyone?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just necessarily building your own business.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it can be somebody who is maybe taking on more of an external role.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a bigger leadership role in their current company, maybe it is branching out on their own.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you have any learnings on what it meant for you to go from being the kind of person behind the person to now being in a more external facing position that you have seen has helped you lean into that a little bit more?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there like a specific learning moment that you think might be helpful for someone else that might be facing something similar?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think just honestly forcing some just doing it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually doing it because I think you can come up with a million reasons in your head as to why not to do it.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the reasons to do it you can't actually see all the way.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that doing it and just just accepting that it's gonna be completely different and you're not gonna have control, and you're gonna sit there and you're gonna be like, okay, I'm here for a reason.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was selected for every job based on me and what I can do.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am qualified to do all of these things, and then just trust in yourself the same way that you trusted in the same person you were behind.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they picked you because they saw something in you that was similar to something they needed, that you were of high quality as well.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really again taking what it is that you want to work on and then just standing upright and then just taking it all in.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's that and it's real, and you don't have to be in a box anymore.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like just get to be yourself and get paid to do it if you really have the passion to do it, the dedication to do it, the drive to do it.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we talked about this.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love coming to work every day, it's super fun, and I have wonderful people I get to work with, and I just get to elevate them and work on cool stuff that's gonna change communities.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like we work solely with nonprofits or higher ed, and to see that change is pretty cool.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's amazing.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't have said it better myself.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is something to seeing yourself as others have seen you that's really tricky too, which is and in the right ones, the ones that have been the ones to help you, you know, promote you, get you to where you're at, and to allow yourself to witness yourself in that way and say, I think that can be one of the hardest things, especially about going out on your own, is you now don't have anybody else telling you good job.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's real.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if there's not wor days where I don't spin where I'm they didn't they didn't send me a message within 10 minutes going, this is amazing, Sarah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're incredible.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's it's so embarrassing when I think back to how much I really, really relied on that external validation for a long time.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Embarrassing isn't the right word, but it is um illuminating, I guess is the better word for it.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: When I look back and go, like, oh wow, yeah, that that was that was really an important part.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: There is a um in Strength Binders, there was this moment where one of the strengths, I can't remember, I think of course I can't remember the strengths moment, but it was really I, if someone comes in and say it's the senator and she's like, Sarah, I turned it a project, and she goes, Sarah, that's great.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: You did a wonderful job.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, thank you so much, that's great.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then she goes to you and she goes, Kristen, that's the best thing that I've had anyone submit in the last few months.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm like worthless and drained.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like 10 years ago.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, I've had to work my way out of that, but I was like, You still did a good job.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's your problem?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, last question that I ask everyone, and we do, you know, similar work, especially working with women leaders and truly building towards what they're what they care most about.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And some of that for me has been in bridging the internal development that necessarily comes with the external strategy for what you're building toward.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those two things are so intertwined, and I think ultimately all of that is in service of building toward whatever legacy it is that we're leaving.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to say that it's what we're building in real time, though.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just what we're leaving, it's what we are actively choosing and actively pursuing every day.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I like to ask everyone, Sarah, what does building a legacy mean to you?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I think it really is ensuring that I lead this, my industry and my community better, obviously, than where I got it.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am mentoring a policy person down in the inland empire.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the phone with before I got on this, and she was like, tell them you made me gritty, and I'm like, okay.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's that.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually meeting the next generation and giving them all the things that I wish I would have had, teaching them you can network, you have your own network, don't think you don't.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like how to actually go into spaces, teaching them how to engage this area that I'm in as an opportunity without cynicism.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can go into things, it's these are challenges, these are this, those all exist.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: But to go into it with excitement, that we can actually make a difference.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna win all the time, but we're gonna lose if we don't try, right?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's really mentoring another generation to actually want to do this, care to do it, to make sure that we're kind of safeguarding and connecting all the world so that we actually have a more connected resource community for everyone.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever gets the credit, don't care.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's that the next generation is gonna be there, I feel, and they're gonna be the new ones coming and representing us, and we'll see.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love it.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's so beautiful.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, invite her to the ribbon cutting, though, y'all.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: I may or may not show I'll be really late.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're amazing.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: I so appreciate your time.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know, especially as uh a small business owner.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much going on all the time.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I just I appreciate you taking a minute to sit down and chat.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: This has been awesome.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, I told you I was gonna Ricky Bobby with my hands that I love to do, and I didn't do it until right now.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, good luck.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you're gonna have a good 30 minutes of comment, maybe five minutes.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: We made it to the very end.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I agree.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting me.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is awesome, and you're doing cool stuff.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, friend.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good to see you.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see each other soon, I'm sure.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.