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Feminism Has No Excuse: Psychoanalytic Feminism’s War on Men with TL;DR · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: may be, and welcome back to Honey Badger Radio. My
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: name is Brian and this is maintaining frame. I'm here
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: with Alison and our special guest, Heal Dear. Feminism has
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: no excuse, psychoanalytic feminism's war on men. So we're going
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to be looking at psychoanalytic feminism, which I talked a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: little bit about on my X space. But I think
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: we're going to do try and do a bit of
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a deeper dive into this absolute well thing. I don't
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: know how to describe it. So Alison, why don't you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: do the things? And then I guess sure we'll get
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: into it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this, first of all, this is like the base.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: This is the I think patient zero. Maybe it's not
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: patient zero. I'm sure Teal Derek can correct me on this,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: but this is like feminism has no excuse. This is
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: it is the smoking gun that of what they actually
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: believe about men and what they actually believe about women,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and everything falls out of it. Now, there might have
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: been more progenitor texts, but this one seems to be
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: the most comprehensive in its absolute level of ideological menace,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: So I look forward to that. Guys, It's going to
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: be interesting. But if you would like to send a
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• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the visuals and today I'm going to be trying to
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: work on Symphony number ten in e Minor by Dmitri.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I'll just say Dmitri because that last name. I can
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: see it and it is like an insurmountable obstacle for
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: my ability to pronounce things. It's something Russian stoked, don't Okay,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'll spare everyone anyway. That's what I'm gonna be working
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: on as we work on this, all right, indelible object, Okay,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I A.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: I have like a little one paragraph summary.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if like you'd I could read that
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: or do you want to just jump right into your thing.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I'm content to just let everyone else talk the less.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: I have to do the best, all right.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So the summary of this, yeah, it's just a paragraph
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I have here, But we can get into more detail
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: if there's anything specific you guys want to dig into.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Psycho Analytic feminism is a theory of oppression that locates
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the roots of patriarchy in the unconscious psyche. Men have
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a deep psychological drive to dominate women, while women show
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: minimal resistance. Both patterns formed in early childhood, primarily before
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: age three. Emerging from cultural feminism, it draws heavily on
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Freud's psycho sexual development and Leacan's revisions to examine how
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: gender identity, femininity, and masculinity are constructed through parent child relationships,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: especially mothering. So is that like a decent brief introduction.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: In so far as it avoids all the crazy shit.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, yeah, we're saving the crazy ship.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a reasonable it's reasonable.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think it's smuggling in a bit of crazy
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: ship there, like just complete bald faced men oppressed women.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: And that's p's feminism. So that's given.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, it is it
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: really speaks to what we're a nerd to that we
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: don't immediately reject that as crazy shit. But yeah, that's uh, yeah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I guess you're right. It is. It is a a
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: kind of taking what is sensible from that and relaying
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: it in a neutral form, and what is actually in
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the it's it's not sensible. It's it's it's so not sensible.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: But yes, okay, shall we just start.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Let's just begin, all right, So how are we doing this?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: We just gotta read through the paper.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I mean it's not a very long paper.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: This is this is one of the few feminist papers
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: that has the virtue of I mean, it does outstay
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: it's welcome, but not through fifteen pages of narrativizing.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does look like it's more academic, if that's
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the only word I can think of.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: To call it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: The reason for that is although it is kind of
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: in that sort of shorter, you know, peer review journally
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: sort of style. The reason that this one is sort
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: of formatted as it is is because it's from the
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: Blackwell Encyclopedia or sociology, so it it has to fit
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: within like a shelf's worth of volumes of encyclopedia.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, So.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: That's why you know when you go through it, it
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: doesn't have all the millions of little numbers next to
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: all of the claims. It's just kind of spooge. Is
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: a vague bibliography at you at the end. Speaking of
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: the bibliography, one of them is kind of funny. It's
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: The Mermaid and the min at All Sexual Arrangements and
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: Human Malaise, which is not a litrotica, despite its name
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: or what the name would imply, is actually a view
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: on men and women in society. It was just a
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: very unfortunate title given the milking farm made thing that
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: was viral not very long ago.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: That does sound like something you'd find on new grounds, and.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: That was that minds or a mermaid thing was from
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy six. So you know, these sorts this sort
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: of insanity has been. It's been with it from the beginning.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: That's why I like sort of going through all of
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: these things finding out where it all came from. It's
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: all sort of bread out from my you know, Feminism
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: is just a religion. Thing is just an extension of
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: a religion. There is a a theological and spiritual element
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: to it, which I've demonstrated through videos, and I am
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: writing a thing about it. I don't know what to
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: call it so far, but I'm about twenty ish pages
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: into it, and it's just what is narcissism? Improving that
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: narcissism existed because that's what feminism grew out of. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: then there's going to be twenty thirty something like pages
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: for each century, I guess since the seventeen hundreds, just
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: going through and demonstrating where all of this came from.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: So that's why this came to my attention. I can't
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: remember exactly how I found this one particular thing. I
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: think it came from a book that I've recently got,
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: which is Theorizing Patriarchy by Sylvia Waalby. And the reason
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: that one came to my attention was because I had
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: to for the long project that I'm working on with
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: the writing, I had to sort of explain or at
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: the very least provide some sort of vague citation for
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: systems theory from Marxism, which is a very important part
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: of feminism and just the way they always like to
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: view things. Everything is a system, everything is simultaneously systemic
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: and systematic, because apparently those two words are syn nyms
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: these days and people don't know the difference between them.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: But I'm pretty sure that this was either cited in
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: there or cited from something relating from that book, and
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: this sort of came to my attention because of going
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: through that, I learned about something, you know, Duwel system
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: theory and triple system theory, which come from Warby and
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: what she was doing those things very explicitly decided, Hey,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: we're going to marry feminist theory with Marxist theory. That
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: is literally what Jewel system theory is, triple system theory is, feminism,
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  Speaker 4: Marxism and race. So these things are just straight up
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: the progenitors of intersectionality, like that is what this is
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: and the reason I'm going through some of these books,
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: a bunch of them are sort of the nineties, so
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: Theorizing Patriots from Patriarchy is from sometime in the nineties,
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  Speaker 4: I think it was published. The four other feminist textbooks
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: that I've got are from the Open University in the UK,
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: which I think also the late nineties early two thousands,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: and I've got another one who's in title I can't
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: remember because it's really long and crejigory, but that's from
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: the twenty twenties, and so it's interesting seeing how they
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: evolve things over time. And the reason that I like
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: to go through some of these older ones it is
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: because when people tell you things like, oh, that's not
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: real feminism, that's not what feminism is, etc. I get
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: to just literally put these textbooks on the table and
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: just say there. But the main reason that I do
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: that and they like to sort of try and place
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: some sort of fallacy of chronology. I guess you'd call
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: it that these things are old, therefore it's not what
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: it's is anymore. But as I always like to point
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: out with these things, well, these are the things that
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: were used to teach the people who are teaching you now.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Mm So all the teachers for feminism, now you know,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: they're all going to be in their sort of forties, fifties, sixties,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: et cetera. This is what they were learning when they
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: were in university. That's why these are all university textbooks.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: These are all ideas and in the case of the
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: thing we're going to look at today and encyclopedia that
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: these people would have been using throughout their university education
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: in order to teach people what feminism is and how
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: to be feminists and on the how to be feminists thing. Actually,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: I'm going to grab the other books. I want to
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: make sure I get the title right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Hang on, I just want while you're doing that, I'm
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: just going to point something out. As long as the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: text isn't repudiated, it stands as part of the canon. Yes,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: So unless they can find where these texts were explicitly
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: superseded or said to not be correct by feminists, then
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: this is indeed part of the feminist canon and can
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: be considered part of the things that feminism teaches and believes.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So continue til there.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's my view on it. There is obviously disagreement
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: within feminism, but they never seem to just outright state
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: that something is wrong in their canon. They always tend
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: to recontextualize it and the reason for this is because
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: feminism grew out of the left Hagelian tradition. Everything is
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: always has to be synthesis. It can never be like
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: right or wrong. So if you find that one idea
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: is wrong, you take that as your thesis. You find
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: whatever opposes it, which is the antithys and anti thesis antithesis,
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: and then you mash them together, you synthesize them, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: they what's the word for it, superfu way, I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: it was something like that. They transcend from that point
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: and then you have your new starting point. This is
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: why leftism has its end of history notion, because once
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: you're done revolutioning everything, once you're done smacking everything into
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: each other to get rid of any sorts of contradictions,
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: you end up in that end of history time, which
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: has a whole bunch of theological implications that I'm not
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: going to go into because I'm sure people are either
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: sick of hearing me talk about it, or if this
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: is somehow the first time they've ever heard me speaking
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: about this, God help you, because you'll have no idea
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: what the hell I'm going on about, and it's just
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: going to sound insane. But on the note, of how
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: to be a feminist and them teaching you feminism how
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: to be feminist. So I did find out something very interesting,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: and this is This is the textbook which I like
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: to use. It's the one from twenty twenty two. I
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: think it was the last time. Twenty's twenty one was
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: when the second edition was published, which is the one
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: I've got. This is Introduction to Women's Gender and Sexuality
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Studies into disciplinary and into Approaches. This is the one
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: from the twenty twenties, which I like to a reference
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: because it sort of shows you what is new ish
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: in the feminist canon. By odd coincidence, the third edition
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: of this was published and it was printed, and it
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: was published in January of this year. They have changed
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: nothing in that textbook except for one section at the end,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: and that one section at the end is basically how
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: to be an activist. It is how take what is
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: written in this book and turn it into doing stuff
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: in the real world. So they haven't improved their canon
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: in like five years since this second edition was published.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: They're now just teaching students this is how you go
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: out into the streets and shout and scream and you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: talk to the higher ups at your companies and just
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: terrify them with the thought of what might happen if
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: they don't give you what you want.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So when you say they changed something, you say that
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: this is an additional section that was put in.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Because anytime these textbooks get reviewed or renewed and
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: you reprinted your second, third, fourth editions, they tend to
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: add stuff to them over time. In a lot of cases,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: they're tightening them up or adding new bits in. But
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: in the in this case, they don't seem to have
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: actually changed any of the like the underlying theory behind it,
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Like they'n't. They don't seem to have added anything of substance.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: It's literally just adding a This is how you activist
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: to it. Yeah, someone telling for the state of their
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: movement in general.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: M M.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: No, if you don't.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: M sorry, I'm trying to figure out who's trying to
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: talk so I can let them talk.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, this is what we're all doing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: We're all doing that thing where there's a slight de
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: someone says something, so that's a bit of a pause.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: But everyone had that same thought. So now it's just
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: and then everyone stops, and then everyone jumps in and
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: then everyone stops, everyone jumps in everyone's It's funny how
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: that works.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It's like it's the podcast version of dancing in the streaks.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: You can't you don't know which way to go get
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: away from a person. Okay, what I was going to
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: say is that, yeah, they have this Hegelian dialectic, but
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: they never integrate with their their devil, their their evil,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: their scapegoat group, or or any kind of philosophy that
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: recognizes the the importance of realizing reality exists. This is
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: something I do notice. They they're constantly it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Isn't the point of the Hegelian dialectus, And every time
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: you get a synthesis, it moves a little bit further
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: away from the thing you're trying to get away from.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: That's why you engage in the dialectic is to slowly
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: move away from, you know, giving credibility or attention or
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: consideration for positions that you're trying to ultimately erase.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's always the same position, so you might
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: be right. The first principles was moving away from what
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: they identified as men's cognition, which is operative in the world,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: so it looks at the world instrumentally to achieve a goal,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and of course they consider that to be invalid. So
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you start with moving away from that, and then you
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: move away from that further and further and further. Maybe
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: you're right, you're onto something Brian.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: But a dialectic is working as intended.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: MM, it's taking you to the end of history. The
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: point is the end of history. You know that, that
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: Hegelian socialist end of history. Well, the theology to that
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: is that the world ends ultimately, you've had enough revolutions.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Everyone lives in some perfect utopia. Now the actual perfect
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: use topia, if you follow the theology back far enough,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: is the spirit of the is the spark of the
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: divine within the human body actually reascends into into being
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: one part of the god Head. You basically undo the
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like undoing the ploroma of the god Head,
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: which created the new stemioge sort of thing that ended
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: up creating the material world. You basically you take the
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: imprint of the divine diegnos of the divine that is
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: written on the material world, and you just return to
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: that source that that's the fundamental, sort of underlying spiritual
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: part of it. So that that's why there is that
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: end of history, notion, and why everything is getting away
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: from whatever, because it's all aimed ultimately at unification. The
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: entire point of the sort of gnostic Hegelian side, which
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Hegel grew out of, is that in the beginning there
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: is or was God, there is this one central thing,
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: and that central thing, because it represents fullness and completeness,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: overflowed itself and overflowing itself because it can't have any end,
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: because if it hasn't end, and it's limited and it's
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: not so, it therefore has to constantly overflow into itself,
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: and that created materialism itself, and so you need to
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: basically effectively undo that division, is basically what it comes
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: down to. But because it starts as a dichotomy, so
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: if you work out all dichotomies, you can perhaps basically
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: undo the original dichotomys all transcendent ascendant nonsense, which is
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: why you get so many of these feminists. They just
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: casually drop the terminology like the I don't remember their
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: names manifestel and the other shera are person. They just
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: casually drop this sort of things like you've got to
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: manifest this. Well, that's using the spark of the divine
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: inside yourself to also the material world around you, because
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: you have that that part of God with it yourself
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: that you can tap into via your nosis, your knowledge,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: I think was sheer our person who was like, oh,
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: your low vibration bitches, Well, why are you using the
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: term low vibration bitches to talk to people? Well, that's
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: to do with the hermetic principle of vibration, which again
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: is to do with what causes the material world and
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: how all of those things tie together, and that if
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: you alter that, you can transcend from that point. So
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: they just casually drop all of this spiritual terminology into
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: what they're doing when they talk about.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: It, which is heretics a lot of them.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Can I just ask something about this? So essentially, what
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: you're doing is you're using spiritual principles to try to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: affect a material outcome in a world that you consider fallen.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Isn't there aren't there a lot of cross purposes happening
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: with those kinds of secret manifested and that thus it
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: shall be kind of.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Thinking, I don't know it, just it is what it is.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I just find it interesting that this is these are
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: the ideas that ultimately forms the foundation of it. But
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: this is also why these people believe so heavily in
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: the concept of things like the social construct, that everything
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: that we have and everything that we are are things
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: that only exist because we defined them as such, and
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: because our definitions create the world, because we have that
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: divine spot. So I mean, I'm not even getting one
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: of the textbooks. I don't know if I'll be able
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: to find it, because it's in one of the four
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: from the Open University. They talk about hysteria in there,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: as in the the Only Woman's Medical Condition thing, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: it literally says in creating the word hysteria, they made
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: women hysterical as until men created a word for it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: This is exactly what I've been talking about that a
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: lot of these people think that men's boundary policing creates
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: the thing that they're policing. So policemen create crime, ice
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: creates immigration, fraud, auditing creates theft, like this is this
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: is what this is the kind of thinking that I'm seeing.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: It's like huge categorical errors. And again I'd like to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: remind everyone that there is a substantial minority of women
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: who fail the waterline test. So if you show them
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: a picture of a glass with the waterline horizontal with
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the horizon. And then you show them a picture of
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: a glass rotated relative to the rising like forty five
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: degrees to the horizon. Many of them will draw the
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: water line also forty five degrees to the horizon because
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: their frame of reference is the object, not the system
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the object is in. And this is these the category
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: errors that creates things like oh, ice creates immigration flaud uh,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: financial audits create embezzling and all of this other ship.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Oh crap, uh.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, I think that oh you're sharing your screen hows and.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta relaunch. So yeah
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: no here here we go. Nope, all yeah, no, just
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: but anyway, so that they can create these category errors, uh,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: based on their misunderstands, like their inability to recognize that
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: thing objects exist within systems. And it's it's interesting because
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: if you even I've been doing this really extensive sort
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: of deep dive into so I'm fixing all this.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of windows that are now
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: occupying the space, but it should be done pretty soon here. Uh,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: but I've been doing a deep dive into literature analysis,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: and I've been using Claude, which I'm using AI the
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: way it should be used, which is pattern matching across
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: a large data set, not building reports, because it'll fake
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: stuff when you do that. And one thing I've found
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: out is that male authors can operate in two modes.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: The operational mode, which is looking at the world, reading
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: the world and looking at it instrumentally, so you read
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: you not read it, so you interact with the world
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: through your actions to achieve a particular outcome. And they
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: can also do a mode in which you read the
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: world for information. But female authors, almost universally, at least
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: from like the sixty four texts that I've tested, cannot
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: write in an operational mindset. They can't write in and
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I guess the classic example would be like a hemingway.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: You just take an action which leads to another action
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: which leads so it's like a series of actions and
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: consequences without any kind of reading of the environment in
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: terms of its emotional meaning, social significance, anything like that.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Women can't write in that register. They just don't. They
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: persistently fail to occupy the register of pure operation and
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: turning the world into an instrument towards a goal. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I just found that fascinating because it means that they
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: can't access that psychological frame. But what's really interesting is
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: men can access the psychological frame that women generally occupy,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: which is reading. So what they do is they read
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: an environment, they decode information from the environment, and women
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: in particular, when they write, they are writing a decoding
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: social interactions, decoding hidden meanings in terms of relationships and
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: a social web. So that and if they write men,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: they'll write a man who decodes meaning from a political
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: social web or or something like that. That's that's as close
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: as they get to operative thinking or operative writing. But men,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: when they write a reading mind, they tend to write
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: a reading mind reading operational information from the environment. So
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: for example, the car Tinker Taylor soldier spy, he writes
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: his spies reading relationships in an operational So what does
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: this mean for my mission? So it's just really fascinating,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And like I said, the really really interesting part of
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: it is that men can operate in both modes, women
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: only operate in one. So fundamentally there may be a
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: failure of women's cognition to really understand how men think.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: So they just they don't they don't understand the operational
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: mindset and because they don't understand it. There's this inclination
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: because we put women in the moral center of society
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: to marginalize the operational mindset more and more and more.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is like this my deep dive,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: does any of that? Can you excavate any of that
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: of interest to you? Tiel Deer or.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Male system thinking and female system thinking? About two years
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: are we discussed if from the book Women's Reality by
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: Muslim Chief.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But the thing is that what I found is
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: women can't access men's system thinking.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: That's why women engage in process never ending because it
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: never provides any results. Yeah, forever thinking and doing the
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: same thing, or doing whatever you want whenever you want.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: But while I never being able to objectively define anything.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: With well, I mean, in some cases the right that
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I went, they still had the conditions of a plot
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: and conflict and resolution, especially in like for example, Austin's
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Pride and Prejudice. The resolution is interesting because it's a
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: reading mind realizing it engaged in a category error when
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: reading an operative mind, and the character has to revise
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: her estimation based on recognizing that error. So, I mean
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that was an interesting one. I'm not sure if many
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like that's a little unusual, fascinating but usual. But it's
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: like a it's just one data point. For the most part,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: women don't render the well, not even for the most part.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like a it's a it's a it's
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: a it's a psychological modality that's cut off from them
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that they can't occupy. But again, men can read, they
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: can they can enter what is the more female psychological modality.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: That's that's the thing that's really interesting. So it's actually
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: literally a deficit in women. They don't understand men, and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: they replace the the fear of what they don't understand
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: with this kind of self righteous moralizing and stigmatization of
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: how men think. So they refrain it as objectification. It's not.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: It's it's instrumentally instrumentalization, and it's not it's like, it's
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: not they're not objectifying people. They are pursuing a goal,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and what matters is what is the goal, not how
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it's pursued, at least in this context. So anyway, I
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: just thought i'd throw that out because it's it's really
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: fascinating me right now. It's like the thing that I'm
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: digging into it's a little it's more esoteric than the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: silver market. So okay, let's get back to the paper.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: We probably should read some since we've.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Been doing it, a little bit of the paper.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Okay, I'll do that since I haven't really
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: said a lot so Psychoanalytic Feminism by Christina Wolf. So
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not displaying the paper because it's literally just text
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: on a PDF. That's boring, which is why Alison's playing
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: beat Saber in the background. But anyway, Psychoanalytic feminism is
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: a theory of oppression which asserts that men have an
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: inherent psychological need to subjugate women. The root of men's
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: compulsion to dominate women and women's minimal resistance to subjugate
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: subjugation lies deep within the human psyche.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Maybe I should just read a couple.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Of sentences and let you guys say if you want
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: to say anything. Allison, I don't know if you want to.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Jump right there. Can you see the category error, like
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: the reading mindset category error trying to understand what it
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: cannot understand, like this is, yeah, we have to bring
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: this back.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Well, there's the assumption that men need to subjugate women.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And that women are I guess there they they can't
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: resist subjugation. There's a lot of presumptions built into those persts.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also socialized, but it's very by And
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the reason why they say that is because they want
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: to avoid a bio essentialist label because you're not allowed
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: to do biosentialism. But it is essentially biosentialist because it's
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: a one to one relationship for every women on the planet.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: There is no culture that evades it. You'll notice that
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: when they it's it's basically universal, and there's no cultural
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: like learning that that is that universal that applies one
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: to one with a biological category. It applies across cultures
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: that would even kill each other at sight. So it's
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: it's a ridiculous assertion. They just use it to handwave.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: It's like doing a little a little inco in invocation
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: at your witchy uh what do they call it? Alter
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: so that you can you can you can you can
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: remove the spirit of of bio essentialism, but fundamentally it's there.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: This is a biosentialist assertion. Okay, And I just bring
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: that up not because I'm against necessarily bio essentialism, but
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: because they're supposed to be, and yet they.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Continue because it breaks the narrative that everything is socialized.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So they have to, like, you know, give themselves at
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: least plausible deniability.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they are bio Essentially, they want the power
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: of bio essentialism without taking the responsibility for it. Basically
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: sounds like something we've observed multiple times. All right, let's uh,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: let's get.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: All right, next, next couple of sentences. This branch of
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: feminism apparently it's just a branch, guys, it's completely different
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: than the other ones. Seeks to gain insight into how
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: our psychic lives develop in order to better understand and
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: change women's oppression psychic lives. Like Professor X, well, there's
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: a difference between psychic and psychology correct anyway, the pattern
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: of oppression is also integrated into society, thus creating a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: sustaining patriarchy. Through the application of psychoanalytic technique to studying
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: differences between women and men, as well as the ways
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: in which gender is constructed, it is possible to recognize
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: socialization patterns at the early stages.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Of human life.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Societal change or a cure can be developed through discovering
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the source of domination in men's psyche and subordination in
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: women's which largely resides unrecognized in individuals' unconsciousness. So they
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: want to find the change to change things or cure
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: because apparently this is something bad that needs to be fixed.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: We have to discover the source of men's will to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: dominate and women's will to be subordinated.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: And then what do they do. They offer a.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Cure it that they cure it. They prevent men from
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: having to take any sort of leadership role or anything
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: that could be considered dominant, and women remove any sense
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: of submissiveness relating to that that that's fundamentally what it is. Basically,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: this is the point where they have biotruth pathology pathologized
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: males of masculinity, a little bit of femininity as well,
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: in so far as it's like, you know, women are
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: taught to be submissive, but they're not going to address
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: any potential biological reason behind that because they don't they
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: don't like biology when it comes to behavior. You've got
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: to remember when the times that this sort of thing
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: was coming about, you basically had a really big split
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: on academic campuses and it effectively turned into sociobiology on
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: one side. This is back in the seventies, and social
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: construction is or sociology, which is the feminist thing. On
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: the other one accepted their biological aspects to behavior and
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: the other rejected it. But as these sorts of papers indicate,
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: they want the authority of being able to say that
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: things are inherent in people's behavior while not actually saying it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I'm having the responsibility to the biosentialist narratives.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because something is biologically informed in behavior. That means
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: that there might be behaviors that they don't like that
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: they can't influence.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Well. And also it's you know, it's morally icky to
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: be bio essentialist. They have to put their fig leaf
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: on it to make it not what it is. Yeah,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: but it I mean they're explanatory. Their explanations have the
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: power of bio essentialism, so they are bio essentialists.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And you can also actually see that quite clearly
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: in well a bit later in this paper they actually
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: say they mentioned the sort of three stages because they
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: go into the whole odiple Freudian nonsense in the oediple,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: which has been long since discredited. But of course this
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: was written decades ago, when it was still a thing,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: and as they've stay in there, there's these sort of
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: three stages, and that's from birth until the third year. Now,
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: the problem with that, and this is something we've learned
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: because of sociobiology, the first about eighteen months ish of
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: human development is what we call the pre socialization stage,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: because the human brain is physically incapable of being taught
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: in that time period because it has not developed the
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: faculties to actually engage in that behavior at that point
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: in time. The human brain, that the human organism, the
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: baby is basically just on evolutionary auto pilot. It literally
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: cannot learn things. But these people look at that and say, yeah,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: you know, we need to basically get that and start
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: teaching the boys to not be oppressive and the girls
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: to be goal bosses. As I think I said when
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: I sent this to Allison's, this is basically the psychological
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: justification for strapping boys onto the ball kicking machine from
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: the day that they're born.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Astounding. Oh yeah, I just want to point out that
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I have successfully finished Symphony number ten an E minor.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: What's the rest of that graduation? Yeah, thank you. I
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I'm just putting that out there for Koran Strong should
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: he be listening? All right?
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: All right, So back to the article.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: This type of feminism emerged out of cultural feminism, which
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: investigates the differences between women and men to understand women's
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: positions and society. Psychoanalytic feminists concentrate on early childhood development,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: primarily before the age of three, examining how gender is
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: constructed and practiced on societal, familial, and individual levels. Through
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: understanding how the conscious aspects of personality evolve at the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: infant stages of life, we better comprehend identity, formation and
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: gender roles, including expectations surrounding what is deemed feminine and masculine.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Freud's theories of the human psyche, including psychosexual development, as
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: well as Lecan's reworking of Freud's theories, provide a foundational
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: framework for this body of feminism. So we talked a
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: little bit about the Freudian thing you said that's been
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: discredited or are you just talking about specifically edible.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Oh, basically everything about Freud was wrong, pretty much. He's
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: the guy that basically said, literally, everything is about penises,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: vaginas and bottles, like everything, everything that humanity does comes
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: down to that. And no, like he was literally just wrong.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is the guy who talked about like
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: women feeling the senses of inferiority to men because of
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: penis envy. And the thing is you can actually find
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: that sort of stuff a little bit in this paper actually,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: but in other things which I've read, stuff which I've
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: done on my channel, because later on in this paper
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: they actually talk about let's see if I can find
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: the notes. I can't there. There was a paper long
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: ago that I did on my channel which was talking
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: about like men's rights activists and why men's writes activists
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: have feelings about things like why do they have feelings
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: about like divorce court being unfair? About the so called
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: no fault divorce, which in pretty much every time and
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: place that that's actually deployed ends up as basically just
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: being man at fault divorce. The fact that the term
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: primary caregiver, again in basically every circumstances that's ever applied,
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: doesn't actually mean primary caregiver. It means mother when it's
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: applied to in law. So this paper that I did,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: this I can remember his stream video something about years ago.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: It is about why MRAs have feelings, why the men's
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: rights activists have feelings, And it was based entirely on
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: pretty much one forum post in which some guy that
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: the researcher never named or provided any particular indication of
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: what this person's position was within the MRM said men
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: are just fucked in societ and based on that, the
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: researcher concluded that men's rights activists have feelings about all
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: of these negative things that affect disproportionately affect men, like
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: the higher rates of suicide, the higher rates of depression,
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: higher rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, et cetera, more likely
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: to be killed in wars, more likely to die anywhere
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: and everywhere. That's before you even begin talking about expectations
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: that women place on men that in a lot of
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: cases seem to be increasingly unreasonable when it comes to
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: like the romantic market, if you want to go down
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: that way. But anyway, this research, you took that phrase
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: and from that phrase said by one guy, that one sentence,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: that one thing that one time on the internet, concluded
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: that men's rights activists have feelings about all of these
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: topics because of castration anxiety, and they are scared of
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: getting fucked in the ars. That's why he used the
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: term men are just fucked and men are and men
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: and men's rights activists are scared of that because it
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: emasculates them. Yeah, so Freud and his analysis is alive
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: and well when it comes to this, god damn, that's
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: academic feminism's opinion of the m r M. By the way,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: you're yeah, yeah, you're a bunch of guys who have
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: feelings because you're scared of being sodomized by women.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: And the reason.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: But it's okay for women to be afraid of being
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: sodomized by men.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, they allowed to have a multi billion dollar international
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: organization to prevent that. But you, as a man, you
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: just you just need to get over it.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just that that hypocrisy is astounding, all right,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Like men's sexual aggressive sexual not even aggressive, just mild
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: sexual interest in women is a constant source of anxiety
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: to feminist organizations. And yet men shouldn't even be afraid
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: of being sexually maimed, as ormed, probably even literally to considering.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: Well, if the millennial shift is to be believed.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the millennial shift, which is that women who
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: are we younger women are getting increasingly more sexually aggressive,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: more aggressive than any other previous generation and more aggressive
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: than millennial men. And so an example of that is
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: they use weapons to force their sexual partners, presumably men,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: into having sex two to three times more than the
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: men of their generation, which is really astounding. And also
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: in conjunction with the millennial shift is a shift in
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: attitudes for young women towards male rape victims, grape victims whatever,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: we're completely demonetized anyway, towards male victims of sexual assault,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: that they actually deserve it and they invited it by
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: having a penis. How dare so? Yeah, that's uh, it's
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: really rich that these these individuals say, well, men's rights
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: activists fear castration and sodomy intellectually speaking, yeah, but also
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: that the idea that men asserting any kind of boundaries
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: over their lives is fear of being castrated. This is
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: a complete deligit This is a complete removal of legitimacy
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: from the from men as categories of being. Like, this
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: is the most bio essentialist hate narrative in all of
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: human history. It's astounding. It's astounding.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: Okay, let's be very importantly on these sects and class distinction,
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: which again is why I like to point out the
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: Marxist origins for feminism. Here they have inherently, from the
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: very beginning set men against women in their literature by
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: putting Marxism into it. Because the Marxist class consciousness thing.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: I mean again, go back to theorizing patriarchy. This book.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: It it literally sets up men as class, women as class,
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: husband as class wife, as class So these things are
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: inherently thesis and antithesis within this framework. There's no way
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: around that, which of course also then leads you to
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: very interesting concepts such as how do you synthesize men
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: and women and bring them together into what? Wait? Is
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: this a justification for the increasingly prevalent rates of things
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: like transsexualism and non binaryism? What happens if you took
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: a gender binary and you slammed them together and tried
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: to make them one thing?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Huh?
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: I wonder what really makes you funk? Doesn't it?
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: It does? Or convinced both of the gender binary that
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: they are like the existence of their category is socially maladaptive. Like.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: This is what this piece is arguing. It's arguing that
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: the existence of men is socially maladaptive. They engage in
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: effectively criminal or morally criminal, like, maybe not legally criminal,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: but morally indefensible action against women, and women somehow are
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: complicit in it. So this psychological paper is basically arguing
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: that neither male nor female as categories is illegitimate, at
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: least as constructed, and presumably the only way to make
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: them legitimate is to make them the same, but also
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: make men lesser than.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: Women, because it all has to come down to that
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: socially constructed think. It's basically the social construction that men
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: are above women, and you have to tear that down. Interestingly,
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: they also again this is perhaps a little it's not
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: so much outside the wheelhouse of what we're doing here,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: because we're talking about like boys here, like boys from
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: the day of birth having this sort of power thing. Now,
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: you can point back to Shaefe and say, oh, do
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: you remember that thing where she talked about how women
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: hate their children because their children give them material purpose
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: and that prevents women from engaging in certain forms of process, etc. Yeah,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: that was another thing that feminists said in another feminist
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: textbook that you used to teach people what feminism is.
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: But going back to again the Theorizing Patriarchy book, I've
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: actually got a note here, which is literally, non patriarchs
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: are patriarchs. And I'm just gonna quote this from here
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: in the usage of here when they're talking about heads
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: of household. In the usage, the domination of younger men
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: who were not household heads was as important, if not
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: more important, than the element of men's dominion over women
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: via the household. You don't even have to be a
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: patriarch to patriarch within this framework. This is why you
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: get this psychoanalytical stuff, which is like, hey, baby boys,
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: they can be patriarchs too.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, all right, next paragraph.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Psychoanalytic feminism addresses a variety of issues related to gender
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: and society, concentrating on explanation as to why men continue
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: to repress women. There are two main sections. One branch
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: focuses on examining differences between women and men on a
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: micro level, particularly on women's psychology, as well as the
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: environment in which the personality of a child develops. This
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: includes childhood learning and formation, relationships with parents, and early
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: sexuality traits. It also explores the establishment of feminist femininity
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: and masculinity, and the relationship with identity and personality. So
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: child early sexuality are they talking about biology here or
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: are we getting pervy?
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're getting pervy. You've got to remember that when
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: Freud was writing this stuff, he had a very a
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: bunch of the early feminist writers Freud and Kellogg, for
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: people who know who were he is and what he did,
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: they had a very weird obsession with children and their
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: genitalia because they've basically noticed that it was not uncommon
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: for pre socialization age children to grab their genital grab
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: their genitals like, seemingly completely at random, and as a
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: result of that, they concluded that there was some weird
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: sexual thing going on there, of course, just ignoring the
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: fact that first of all, they can't really grab anything else.
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: They are immobile like children that they can't move around.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: They can literally only touch things that are within about reach. Yeah, yeah,
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: anything that's within reach. And as it just so happened,
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: and the human body, your hands happen to hang at
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: about hip pipe, so it's it's very convenient for them.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: And also there's a bunch of nerves in that area.
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: They're literally basically just working out how their bodies work.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, in any other time or place you could
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: look at how you know, when kids sort of get
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: to maybe a year old, and they start being able
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: to sort of sit up via themselves. How a bunch
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: of them start sticking their foot in their mouth, and
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: you could if you wanted to be like those sorts
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: of people like Killow and Fouge, you could say, ah,
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: this is where children develop foot fetishes. Now, it's just
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: because your toes, as with your fingers, have a lot
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: of nerves. And that's interesting when you're in the pre
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: socialization stage and you're literally just going on nerve impulse.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: There's no conscious thought to it. It's just nerves are
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: being stimulated. That's interesting. And that's where children begin to
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: pick up this concept of cause and effect and being
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: able to influence themselves and things around them, like I
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: can do something, it has an effect. Who interesting, And
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: then when they start getting older they start learning that,
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: and then based on that ability for them to flip change,
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: they can start then the a sort of three or
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: fourth passing things like the Sally Antest because they begin
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: knowing cause and effect and understanding the theory of mind
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: of other people, and they're in visions of cause and effect.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: It's a tactile scaffolding, I think, and so they're starting
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: to explore their world tactically, like through and the mouth
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: has the most tactile sensors or some of the most fingertips. No,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: actually the most plus taste sensors. So if your vision
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: is blurry and you're not an animal that relies on
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: the scent, and also you're hearing, I think at that
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: point isn't really it's still forming or it's not as acute.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Then what you're left with are tactiles sensations and taste sensations.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: So it's just how they explore the world while they're
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: they're forming the tactile the haptic scaffold for future logic
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and theory of mind cognition. All right, sore reading a
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: lot into it.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: They're reading.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: Then why they ended up with these bizarre genital theories.
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: That's where it all came from. It's basically just human
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: babies suck like they can't they can barely do anything,
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: so it's what they do them to do. They can
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: they can kind of touch things and kind of smell things,
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: and that's that. That's like the earliest experiences that they
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: have because mechanically the rest of their biology doesn't function yet.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so I got uh, super child's I
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: should read out, so art fours then ten dollars and
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: said great new avatars. Also vietsaber beats trying to squint
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: at a pdf. Yeah, yeah, the print's really small. I
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: mean I'm looking right at it on my screen and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I'm squinting a little bit. Gotta wear my reading glasses. Uh,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: thank you art fors for that. And then Green Indoors
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: gave us five and said it's interesting to learn about
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: feminism's spiritual New Age gnostic origin story. And then look
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: back roughly fifteen years ago when they barged into them
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: to the then popular New Atheism movement and basically got
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: greeted with open arms by the majority of these self
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: proclaimed skeptics, not realizing in the slightest what kind of
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: potent deaf cult they let in while dunking on those
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: stupid Christians at their conventions. Also, Alison, You're right. Beat
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: saber activities lead to song suggestions an HBr hood classic
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: world revolving good luck.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Making a request. Yeah, you're not gonna be able to
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: hear it though. You're not gonna be.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Able to hear it though, because I have sound muted
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: on it so well, the sound is muted.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what you get that word?
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: That phrase is there. That title is now just permanently
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: welded to my pain sensors. Okay, talk about haptic scaffolding.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna move on to the next paragraph.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: But the I guess the last thing I wanted to
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: add on to what you were saying about, you know,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: like the way that the children grab themselves. We're really
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: just talking about boys, right, because I mean, I don't
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: think girls can do that, So we are also at
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: least mostly talking about boys, which is probably why Kellogg
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: was in support of circumcision, because he thought it would
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: curb that.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Is that Is that what we're getting at here?
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was That was his justification for it, because
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: he basically saw or babies doing that and we're like, well,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: that's sexual and you're not supposed to do that because
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: that's bad. It's also actually part of the reason not
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: only that he started doing circumcision and wiring boys foreskins shut,
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: like sewing them together with the that sort of metally
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: thread thing that you goes for dental surgery. I can't
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: remember the name of it, but also why he was
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: an advocate for burning girls clitoruses off with acid because
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: it stopped them from touching themselves as well.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: So I guess girls did. Except the the type of
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: acid he did, probably we wouldn't have done that. It's
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: more like the strength of lemon. I actually looked this
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: up specifically.
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah it was. It wasn't like full on, you know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: we're gonna melt your skin stuff. It was just it
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: basically makes it uncomfortable for you, so you don't do it.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: It was causing inflammation which discouraged the touching. Yes, it
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: wasn't like some liquefying.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: No, and it certainly isn't cutting and sewing. Yeah, good lord.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: And then there are all the chastity belts that they
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: invented for men. Terrifying. Anyway, let's continue with.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: This, yep, back to the article anyway, if you guys
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: want to send us a super child again, feed thebadge
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: dot com force last, just the tip, all right. The
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: other branch concentrates on investigating the construction of gender. So
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: now we're getting into this, Okay. This encompasses examinations of
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: masculinityinity femininity.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: Why am I struggling with that?
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: The emergence of adult sexuality, including recognition of the female
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: libido and the continual reinforcement of patriarchy. While continuing the
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: use of psychoanalytic techniques on the micro level, this section
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: also utilizes macro level analysis through studying societal institutions such
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: as the economy and employment, science and knowledge, arts and language. Wow,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: should I keep going or do you want to say
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: anything to that?
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: I will. This is of course where they start talking
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: about I'm just going to bring in Mars again, you know, Yeah,
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: why are we putting economy and employment and stuff in feminism? Why?
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: Why is that coming there? Well, because of Carl Marx.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: We have to ensure that the economy is equal again,
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: going back to theorizing patriarchy, that book from only nineteen
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: more whatever it was, that literally starts giving you the
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: beats for why emotional labor, as it would later be
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: called an unpaid household labor needs to start being paid
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: because that is all inequality that needs to be sorted out.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: It's also why when you sort of go back to
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: that dual and triple system theory that I mentioned earlier,
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: why is a popular feminist buzz phrase for everything white
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: supremacist cap is patriarchy. That's why it's a triple system theory,
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: thinking that that's what that is. There's also very interesting
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: things when they talk about unconsciousness on this I actually
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: highlighted a page about it if I can find it. Yeah. Yeah,
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: it was to do with discussing gender in terms of
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: separation between these two systems. Yeah, I'll just read that
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: bit in which the economic level is ordered by capitalist
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: relations and the level of the unconscious by the law
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: of patriarchy. But this is why they use these terms
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: and why they're interested in them. It's because these frameworks
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: all came together. So again, if people ever like to
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: say to you, oh, Marxism called tuo mercis, yeah, it is,
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: stop lying to people.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Huh well yeah, uh.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: It's these these are you said, three systems right that
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: we're like looking at. It's like the the It's almost
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: like they're meant to exist because when you knock down one,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: you can lift up another to like take it out.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, it's like, uh, it makes
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: it harder to attack these bad ideas because you can
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: always fall back on some other system when it looks
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: like the system.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: You're bringing forward is weakening. And then by the.
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: Time you're arguing that everything is capitalism, and someone points out, no,
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: first of all, capitalism is just a socialist buzzword for
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: free for uh, property rights and free exchange, and you
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: just don't like that and you want that to go away.
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: Well that you can just sort of side stuff and go, oh,
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: there's patriot patriarchy is doing it. Yeah, No, white supremacy
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: is doing Yeah, it's like, stop stop shifting your argument.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: A normativity is doing it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It gives them goalposts so that they can just
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: pick up and run around with as they want to.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: The entire point of this is ultimately deconstruction. And again
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: this is important because Marxism is part of feminism inseparably.
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: I really want to hammer that in for people here.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: The entire purpose of socialism and Marxism is that end
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: of history point, and it comes about after the revolution.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: And the revolution is the destruction of the system that
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: you currently live under, the destruction of the white supremacist
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: capitalist patriarchy that you are presently in. In other words,
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: the functioning society that has made everything around you possible
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: is the thing that needs to be destroyed in the revolution,
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: because out of that humans, once you've gone through all
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: of these revolutions, including the gender and sex revolutions. When
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: all of this stuff gets synthesized, all of these theses
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: and antitheses gets synthesized, you will get the new new
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: socialist man, the new Soviet man, as it was called
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: in the USSR, the man and the woman or the person,
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: the economic unit that is indistinguishable from all of the
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: other ones, who will provide to all of the other
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: people from his ability to produce to the other person's need,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: with no thoughts of what is in it for me.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: You know, they don't need any sort of incentive. They
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: just do it because they can. That's what all that's
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: the same thing for It has to necessarily be the
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: destruction of the society that you live in. It cannot
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: be anything else.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: All right, Okay, let's uh, let's keep going uh okay.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: From a psycho analytic, So they were talking about how,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: you know, they got to get into the institutions, right,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: they're saying, studying the institutions. But they're they're, they're they're
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: it's a pretense to get in there. Like I'm sorry, go.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: Ahead, a long splow march through the institutions.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: And that includes not just the economy and employment, but
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: also science, knowledge, knowledge itself, by the way, arts and language.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: Oh god, on knowledge. Oh, oh god, I'm sorry that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: something in my brain just clicked. Yeah. There's another book
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: which I'm reading, which is feminism and religion and knowledge
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: is a very very important part of that and the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: Theorizing Patriarchy book. So the reason that those are very
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: important is because in the Theorizing Patriarchy book it actually
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: says that basically women's thoughts and feelings are effectively scientific
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: literature and should be perceived as such because women have
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: been kept out of the sciences for so long. I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: want to see if I can find that very quickly. Yes,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: So basically women's sciences patriarchal and women's feelings are reality.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: So throughout this this is talking about It's in the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: epistemology section of this book, which I think we need
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: to go through on a separate day because it explains
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: a lot. But a little bits here is they use
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: this to much methods of research to argue the previous
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: assumptions about women are unfounded, an approach which argues for
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: a really scientific attitude to knowledge rather than relying on
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: the existing patriarchal but bias knowledge that falsely passes a science.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: That's the feminist position all sciences patriarchal knowledge, and it's
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: false knowledge. It's bias knowledge. It's false. It's not really knowledge.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: It's just stuff that men created, you know, like how
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: men created hysteria by giving it names and things like that.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: And then a little bit later it talks about there
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: was a school that labeled feminist standpoint epistemology by Harding
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: argues that the only basis of unbiased knowledge of the
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: world is women's own direct experience.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: M h.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: That's a feminist textbook and a theorizing patriarchy. The only
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: way you can unbiasedly understand the world is by what
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: women tell you. And that leads you on to the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: second book which I've got here, which is feminism and Religion.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: An interesting part of this is literal female heresy. There's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: another book which I've got which is an introduction to gnosticism,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: because obviously Gnostcism comes up a lot in the thing
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: which I'm writing. And there's a very interesting note in
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: that which is that in the early forms of Christianity,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: heresy was mostly being caused by women. They were the
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: major heretics throughout the sort of first few centuries or
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: first few centuries, fourth century and beyond, which is basically
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: when Christianity started to coalesce around itself. This book also
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: says the same thing when it goes through ritual practices,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: so as recounted in chapter two, which obviously is in
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: this book which we haven't read yet, it was the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: pain of exclusion from leadership roles and ritual practices that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: first motivated many feminists to challenge the patriarchal status quote.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: This disconnect, for example, concerned women's roles in Christianity and Judaism,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: first led to experimentation with new ritual forms, so women
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: spreading heresy from there, And then it goes on to
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: talk about how destroying God is basically a socialist goal,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: So it becomes clear that if patriarchy control ritual was eliminated,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: the patriarchal naming of God would closely follow, which could
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: lead to even more experimentations with practice in other areas,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: practice being sociology, being socialist theory being put into action.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: That's all practice means. It just means theory and the
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: doing of theory as it is itself.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: It's like the practice of.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's basically just practice, but making it sound
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: more interesting. So on the knowledge thing, they've got a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: part where women's feelings must be reality, and there needs
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: to be a new women's reality that remember that book
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: that we read here, So I guess I'll just do
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: a short reading here. So the fundamental feminist question about
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: the world's religions is how amenable to feminist transformation they
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: may be. In describing how feminism is changing religious thought
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: and practice, I emphasize two themes. Since women have been
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: lying excluded from the androcentric theology in religious leadership, women's
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: experiences need to be discovered, recovered, and taken seriously. When
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: that is done, a new naming of reality begins to occur.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: Some feminists or non patriarchal ways of reading major texts
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: and discussing religious concepts, whereas others decide that such exercise
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: is futile and reject the traditional religions in favor of
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: other forms of spirituality. What have I been saying about
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: where all of this stuff came from a couple hundred
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: years ago, you know, spiritualism, and where all this stuffing out?
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: That is literally here feminism in religion. Feminism in religion,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: it is a feminist's job and the job of women,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: feminist women, to take over religions, subvert them, turn them
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: into whatever the hell they want. The only form of
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: knowledge that is real in the world is women's feelings,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: and that must be taken seriously in science because it's
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: the only way of being unbiased. It has to be
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: taken into account in religion because it's the only way
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: of being again biastand unburning women from patriarchal spirituality and
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: all of that sort of stuff.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Yeap, like this is what this is like.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: These are literally feminists writing this stuff in their own book.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: And another funny thing again, talking about knowledge. There's another
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: note here which I've got, which is academia undermines religion
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: and is designed too, because of course they want to
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: overtake academia, which they've done through their long march through
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: the institutions. Let's see if I can find that quickly. Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: When I asked, she's talking to a woman in this
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: so when I asked her about her training, she reported
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: taking one course in feminist theology in seminary reading Woman's
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: spirit rising and being influenced by scholarship concerning female God language,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: including mine. When my students express despair over ever being
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: able to change something as massive and unyielding as the Church,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: I tell this story to point out how much things
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: can change and how important it is for each of
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: us to do our part to affect those changes. The
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: academic study is literally being done to overthrow churches basically.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: I mean they talk a lot, of course or so
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: about how it's influenced, particularly Christianity here, So it's you know,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: reforming current liturgies and creating neulturgy has been a major
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: focus of the post patriarchal practice of world religions. Language
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: about humans is gender neutral or inclusive. This is what
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: they're pushing for in all religions. It's not only Christianity,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: it's Judaism in Islam as well, rather than masculine. The
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: language of our Deity clearly indicates that quote of the
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: God worship in the Church today could not be regarded
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: as having gender, race, or color end quote. Therefore, some
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: names for God become less gendered. For example, Lord becomes
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: sovereign and God the Father becomes God the Father and
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: Mother just literal, actual, straight up heresy. Remember when in
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: the Bible when Jesus said, here, I'm going to teach
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: you this prayer, because this is how you're supposed to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: stand before God, humbullying contritely and ask him how you
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: talk to him? No, you don't. But then this also
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: stems from remember what I was saying a little bit
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: earlier about how in the Gnostic thing you talk about
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: the fullness of God, the plerooma of God, the overflowing
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: of God that ended up creating the material world. That
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: is something that I think it was Annie Bessont wrote
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: about as well. And so when you have this God
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: that is everything, and you know everything embodies all things
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: like that, you end up with a very very solid
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: case of being able to say, well, yeah, it is
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: masculine and feminine and everything, because that's an inevitable part
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: of monotheism. It's kind of one of the flaws of monotheism.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: I suppose you could say, you know, whether you want
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: to call it a floor or a feature, I don't know,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: but that's how that works. It gave them an inn
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: right basically be.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: Able to well because of the control over language.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: Again, Yeah, but this also and points back to why
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: when I point out gnosticism being the basis for all
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: this feminist stuff, and I say to people, look, it
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: comes from Christian theology. It's unavoidable. I know a lot
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: of Christians get upset with me about that because it's like, oh, no, no,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: it's a heresy and all of this stuff. You're welcome
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: to say that and think that every other denomination says
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: the same thing about you. You're in a giant circular
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: firing squad. If you want to go down that road,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: which means it's not helpful, you have to be able
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: to basically say, definitively no, your theology on this is wrong.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: You have to be able to actually confront it on
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: that level, because otherwise it's not going to work. Like
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: you're not going to be able to counter it theologically
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: by just saying, oh, heresy, Okay, fine, they're still going
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: to do it, and the basis for them being able
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: to do it stems from what you believe that that's
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: just an unavoidable thing. Unfortunately.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's why I.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: Got kind of annoyed, you know, going through that Rachel
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: Wilson's book, the I don't remember what it was, not
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: satanic feminism, the other one. Yeah, a cult feminism, that's it.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: That's why in my review of that, I got kind
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: of annoyed because she just kept saying all of this stuff,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: it's oh, it's like not Christian, it's pagan, it's all
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: the other things that aren't my particular denomination aren't Christian.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: And I just had to keep pointing out in my
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: review of that, No, no, this stuff stems from your theology.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: You cannot have the position that these feminist positions come
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: from if your theology is not the basis of it.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: It doesn't work. That viewpoint necessarily comes from monotheism. It
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: can't exist outside of it, and you need to address
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: it there. But anyway, that that was a long tangent.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry I had to go on that because it
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: was just when it said, yeah, yeah, you said the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: science and the knowledge worn't that just all suddenly clicked
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: in my brain was like, no, no, they have literally
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: written in these two books why knowledge itself has to
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: be overthrown because women's appear women's opinion is knowledge and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: is better than knowledge, because men's knowledge is false knowledge.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: It's fake, it's biased, it's patriarchal, it's not real because
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: it's not women's opinion exactly all right, that she's typing.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: No, that's all right, yeah, Alison, did you want to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: say something? Alison?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Sorry? I yeah, I gotcha. I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. Yeah,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just I'm listening to this. I mean what I
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: could say is that what's interesting to me is how
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: and this this, this is going off in a tangent.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: It's again the my my, uh my, look into the
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: commodities markets. How Actually this is intersected with financialization in
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: in in modern society, because it's become an excuse and
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: a shield and an engine for this idea that product
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: or sorry, wealth comes out of creating financial derivatives on
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: actual productive work. So financial derivatives on actual productive work,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: which it's itself, is the same kind of error I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: see in in communism and Marxism and socialism, which is
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: the idea that the distribution of goods creates the goods. Again, like,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, that sounds like it's crazy, but you got
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: think in terms of a mind that when you rotate
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: a glass, does not realize that the water rotates or
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: orientates towards the horizon based on gravity, Like you have
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to understand that that's the category era that these kinds
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: of minds make, so they think that goods come out
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: of distribution rather than production. It's the same. It's like
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: that that meme groceries come out of the back of
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: the grocery store.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, isn't in the back.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, it comes from the farms, you know,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: which themselves come from a web, a system of of
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: of moving material material products around so the farmers can
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: actually farm. And but but yeah, that's the category era,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: and it's it underlies Marxism, it underlies financialization. And again
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: all of this rendering men's the way men think, which
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: again I've been seeing as distinct from the way women
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: think in literature. So the rendering the way men think illegitimate,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: which means that you render the ethics that men have illegitimate,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: which means things like free market, which disciplines like a
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: free market is supposed to discipline the actors in it
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: because they have to eat their risk. So what we're
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: seeing now is the free market is patriarchy. It's something
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: that we need to remove because it's not it's some
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: morally suspect as masculine is toxically masculine, and has replaced.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: It is a controlled market in which big players socialize
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: their losses. They get to keep their profits, but they
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: socialize their losses to the taxpayer. But all of this
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: is like this an additional web of how these concepts
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: intersected with modern finance, like post Brenton Woods, like post
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: being removed from the gold standard modern finance. So that's
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: what I would bring, Brian. I'm not sure if that's
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: really helpful right now, though it's fine.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: Let me read more SOT to make sure you're here
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: with us.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: From a psychoanalytic viewpoint, So this after we talk about
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: the knowledge and stuff. The first branch represents man's need
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: for an air to create something that outlasts him, largely
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: due to fear of mortality, while also providing a means
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: of domination over women and his children. Wow, there's a
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: lot of assumptions baked into that. The second section also
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: fulfills this need to create permanency, such as through the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: establishment of business, wealth, science, are and architecture. These larger
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: structures and social systems organized society, creating a patriarchal system
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: that serves to oppress and dominate women.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: Men build buildings to oppress women.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: Homes with running water and stuff is to oppress women.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the category ear This is literally the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: category era. Because they need it. That means men are
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: oppressing them. Because men are doing what they need. That
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: means men are oppressing them because they could choose not
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: to do it. And that's the oppression. Women don't have
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: ultimate control over it. That's the oppression. So the moment
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: you do what she asks, you are oppressing her. The
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: moment you provide for her, you are oppressing her because
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: she is not able to provide for herself or you're
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: not giving her the means to provide for herself, even
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: though you can point out that that is self defeating
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: because then she could then take that. Yeah, It's like
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: it's almost like a derivative of a derivative, a derivative.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: You know, you provide the means for her to provide
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: for herself, and then she does so, and then she's like,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: but wait, you're providing the means for me to provide
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: for myself. And so you provide the means to provide
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: the means for her to provide for the self, and
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: then she says, but wait, you're still oppressing me. By
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: providing the means to provide for the means to provide
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: for myself. And it's never ending because any reliance is
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: recasted oppression and it's it's astounding because if you think
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: about that that d like, it renders completely illegitimate the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: entire layer of production. So every man's who's mining silver,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: every man who's mining potash, every man who's tilling a field,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: every man who's in the process of creating anything productive
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: becomes the oppressor through the simple act ofduduction, and therefore
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: can be silenced and extracted from with no moral cost.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: In fact, it's a moral good to extract from the
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: men who are productive the labor class, because then you
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: are you are removing their control over their own oppression
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: of women. And this is what I'm freaking seeing. This
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: is the moral pretzel logic that I'm seeing that's building
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: these gigantic financialization layers. And when I say financialization, just
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: think of gigantic pyramid schemes around the things that we
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: actually need to survive that destroy the things we need
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: to survive. Ultimately. Okay, I know I'm bringing it back
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: to that because that's my new thing that in literature.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: The exploration of women's roles as mother and daughter is
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: a central topic in both branches of psychoanalytic feminism. Early
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: theories such as Jessica Benjamin, Jane Flax, Dorothy Dinnerstein or
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Dinnerstein not sure which, and Nancy Chaudreaux view mothering as
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: a means for understanding the continual reproduction and production of
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: the status quo, and therefore a place for social change
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: can occur. Huh, so they're okay, let's find out where
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: the change is. So they're recognizing that essentially men want
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: to have kids for some reason, only men want kids,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: even though like if you want to factory reset a woman,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: you put a baby in her arms.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: But okay.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Utilizing Freud's techniques is as starting points of analysis. Many
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: psychoanalytic feminists examine people's preedipal and oedipal experiences in relation
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: to gender and identity formation. It is at these stages,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: from birth until their third year that children learn gender roles.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: Freud theorized that children develop their understanding of their gender
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: due to their natural tendency to identify with the same
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: sex parent. Some psychoanalytic feminists align with this theory. Examining
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: gender formation at the oedipal stage for boys and the
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: pre edible stage for girls. Others such as Chudreau, Chodoro
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: I guess, begin the analysis of gender acquisition at the
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: pre edible stage, utilizing Freud's object relation theory. Chatto examines
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: the relationships of mothers and their children. Okay, anybody want
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: say anything about that before we move.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 4: On tender years doctrine.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But also.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: The obvious counterexample of this is that children, boys of
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: single mothers are the most aggressive. I mean, if they're
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: not broken, they tend to be very aggressive. Criminal they
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: don't they don't develop the kind of compassion and theory
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: of mind that sons with with even just fathers in
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: the house. To So, right there, what's happened there, feminists,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: that's an that is a complete it is a complete
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: defiance of your theory of what should happen. When you
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: take a father out of the house, the son becomes
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: more toxically masculine. How does that work?
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: Mm?
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: But I'm only I'm only using the term toxically masculine,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: not because it's legitimate and of itself, but because I am,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: for the sake of argument operating within their logical sphere,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: shall we say, yeah, logic very loosely here, let's keep
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: keep going, and let's teeal there wants to.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: All right, oh yeah, let's teal there wants to say,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: I know you said tenor years doctrine, but.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: Oh, I know that that was basically it. If what
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: they're saying a word to be true, or they were
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: to take any of that stuff anyway seriously and talking
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: about how, oh children learn from their same sex parents
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: and whatnot, then perhaps they should have been more interested
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: in keeping parents together so that kids can learn from both.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: Tender years doctrine of course completely obliterated that because, as
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: I pointed out earlier, the default primary caregiver is just
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: woman in basically every circumstances, everything that they've done, and
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: especially since this paper, because again these papers, I think
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: we have to remember they were published in decades past.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, this one was published in two thousand and seven,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: so sort of quite quite a while ago. You can
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: see how the shift of it has changed over time.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: Like they're not even like trying to mouth anything positive
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: about men anymore.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: Oh for sure, for sure.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Uh all right, so during in to see children are
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: symbolically attached to their mothers. For women, the role of
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: mother represents a dual identity, one of mother and the
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: other as a child who was raised by a mother, therefore,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: her relationship with her daughter differs from that with her son.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: When raising a daughter, the mother imagines her life as
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: a child and her own experiences being raised by her mother.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: This results in a deep bond with her daughter. This
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: is also where the baby learns her identity as well
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: as gender through her mother through representations of sameness. Theoretically,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: this creates less individuality in girls, and as a result,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: they develop more flexible egos and only feel a sense
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: of completeness when closely connected to another person. So they're
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: saying that this is like oppressing girls because they basically
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: end up mimicking their mothers. Does that not also affect
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: men and boys the same way?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: A little later? But no. Also, I found this bit
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: interesting because it's basically saying that goals are just their
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: mother's ego and projection, which is an interesting way of
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: looking at it. The other thing, which I found kind
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: of interesting, which seems to have gone out my brain.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: Why has it done that? I don't know.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: It's a competition between mother and daughter. This is what
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: they're acknowledging. So patriarchy reduces down to an interaction between
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: a mother and a daughter, which is really interesting because
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: they don't Actually it's funny because they want it to
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: be situated there at the same time as they don't
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: want to deal with the implications, which is that patriarchy
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: is not about men, it's about women eating each other's autonomy.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, sorry, that was the thing that just went
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: into my brain a little bit there. Later on this
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: paper they do talk about how the relationships of children
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: and as compared to their opposite parent is what informs
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: their heterosexuality. So by this logic and within this standing,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: because you know Freud and Oedipus and all of that stuff,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: it's basically girls want to have sex with their fathers
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: and boys want to have sex with their mothers, which
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 4: of course Freud was a very big proponent of. So
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: within that framework, mothers and daughters are literally both sexually
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: competing for their father within this Freudian insanity.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Okay.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: Well, he was a proponent of recognizing that as a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: psychological force, not necessarily acting on.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: It, right, I don't know. Freud was into some weird shit.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: I'm going to try and give him the benefit of
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: the doubt, but I'm hesitant to.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough, I actually sort of liked his his
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: work on the Panos, but that was like later completely,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: I think, separate from a lot of maybe his obsessions.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: But anyway, continue all right.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: So for sons, their identity becomes formed in a similar manner,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: yet it is through representations of difference. He signifies the
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: other to the mother, defined by her expectations of him.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: This creates more individuality in boys and a sense of
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: completeness through achievement and competition. In order for boys to
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: develop their masculinity, they must separate from their mothers, just
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: as girls need to be connected to their mothers in
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: order to develop their femininity. This split from the mother
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: creates a dualistic relationship between the two, making femaleness the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: polar opposite of maleness, isn't it though, distancing sons from
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: mothers and giving rise to abstract masculinity. As the children
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: grow into adulthood, their gender identities can become threatened by
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: challenges to those Early. For men, they develop feelings of
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: vulnerability when dealing with intimacy, and women feel threatened by separation, Okay,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: and any thoughts.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's accurate in observation, I think,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: but it's it's trying to do something that's let's see
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: if I can make this work. I'm trying to fix
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: the issue with the screen. I'm hoping that this is capturing. Nope,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: it's not.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: I have a rumble rant.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: But go ahead, Yeah, just go ahead with the rumble rant.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: So I think they're right. Like, I think a lot
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: of from what I've been looking at in my literature analysis,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: there is anxiety and men over how much they can
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: be controlled by women, and there's anxiety and women over abandonment.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: But that maps perfectly to pair bonding and the the
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: the vulnerabilities that are created when you're a pair bonding
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: by parental species. It doesn't I don't know how that.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like you take an observation that might
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: be true and then you just go into the weeds
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: And that's you know, it just doesn't doesn't. One doesn't
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: follow from the other. Okay, here we go there, can
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: you can you see it now?
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah? It's a little uh, it's like you're dropping frames.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: Are crazy?
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 5: But it's fine, let's go yeah, all right, nova fan
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: gave us a rumble rant for a dollar.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Nova Fan.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: Does this specific feminist framework have an explanation for why
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: women rely on men simping for them to do their
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: dirty work or is that just hand waved as more oppression?
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean yes, if men didn't oppress women, then
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: women could do everything for themselves somehow, it's it's all
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: very circular. Yes, I want to exit the game.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: God damn it that women are the problem men of
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: the reason why women need to use them to simp.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, right, because men haven't sinned hard enough to make
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: the simping invisible. It's like that women shouldn't have to
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: be even recognizing that something is serving them. The entire
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: productive layer should also be able to render itself invisible
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: so women think they're doing it for themselves, and that
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: will solve the entire problem of patriarchy. If men could
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: just make themselves completely invisible so that women never have
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: to acknowledge or recognize their existence at all, while constructing
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: everything that women need to continue to exist. Why don't
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: you do that, guys, then you would finally be women
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: would finally be free. Of oppression without actually having to
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: take responsibility for anything or do anything for themselves. Like
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: it's it's I don't know, it's like it's the ultimate syllipsistic,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: egotistical fantasy for women anyway.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like you don't stop sharing your gameplay, because.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Yes I did. I'm going to just redo everything. Don't worry,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: I'm working on it. I am there we go. I'm
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: just going to go back to Beatsaers since I can't
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: do my other game that I like, and also you
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: can't see Badger Chan, so I probably shouldn't have run
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: that experiment.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: Sorry, guys, just had to do that while we're alive,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: all right. Yeah.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: These varying levels of intimacy of relatedness between children and
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: their mothers and their mother rather create a different sense
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: of self for girls and boys, solidifying femininity and masculinity
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: as distinct opposite categories with which maintain close relationships with
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: one another. Femininity is representative of a strong tie to
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: the mother, Masculinity manifests itself as distance from both mother
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: and father. Another theory posits that the relationship between parents
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: and children is a symbolic process. Masculinity and femininity are
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: constructed on the basis of castration, which consists of a
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: of a splitting that occurs with the desire for unity
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: between genders, but this desire is repressed. Therefore, masculinity represents
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: the possibility of gratification and femininity signifies the impossibility of union.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: Uh what, okay?
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: So it is a mind trying to understand the operative
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: mind that just can't. So it doesn't understand that boys
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: are existing in a psychological mode that it can't comprehend.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: And that's not distancing from the father. That is attempting
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: to operate within an operative frame, which is competitive, which
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: is achievement orientated, which is goal orientated. That's not actually
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: distinguishing yourself from your father. It's moving into that frame
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: that your father also operates in. Yeah, so she doesn't
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: understand that because everything is just relational to her. It's
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: not categorical or in terms of an external standard. So
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: if a boy is like, I'm going to be my
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: father was a footballer, I'm going to be better father,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: better footballer than her him, she sees that as moving
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: away from the father, rather than moving into the father's frame.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: You see the difference. Mm hmmm, Because he's trying to
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: distinguish himself from the father through his excellence or through
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: his ability in her, but she doesn't recognizing that it's
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: distinguishing himself within the same frame that the father operates
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: in because everything is relational to her, So she sees
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: him trying to move out of the mother's relational frame
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: into the operational frame as distancing him from his mother,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: but also the idea that he's in competition with his
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: father in the operational frame as distancing himself from his
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: father from her father because she can't she doesn't understand
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: that things happen in an operational frame. She doesn't understand
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: a psycho operational psychology or the fact that you're not
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: actually a competition doesn't distance you from people. I mean,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: it does in a way, but it also brings you
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: together because you're competing over the same thing. And often
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: competition has rules that you agree upon in external standards
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: that you agree upon, in a field that you agree upon,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: and you know teammates that you that you engage with.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: She doesn't understand any of that. It's all just distance
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and closeness for her because she doesn't have the other
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: access axes to to understand the world. On does that
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: make sense. Yeah, yeah, okay, good, yes.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, because well yeah, there there's a Again, I
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of assumptions baked into most
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: of what's being said here, but about men in particular
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: and about masculinity and what it does and society at large.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: But I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a ton of assumptions baked in, and most
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: of them come from a neurotic slight I would honestly
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: say neurotic, narcissistic, possible, he'snt sociopathic mind reading into something
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't understand, and that's her mind, and that's
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: the feminist mind in general, is that they look at
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: men and they project their own desire for control, their
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: own desire for annihilating anything that isn't them, their own
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: xenophobia onto men, and they were they say, this is
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: what men think, and it's like, no, you're just projecting
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: yourself onto a man. Probably the dude isn't thinking anything
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: at all, Like honestly, I mean, this is this is
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: something that was sort of hilarious that came out of
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: my interactions with Cloud Cloud, and I was like Cloud whatever,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: Claus whatever. The The The long form one is that
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: I was deep into this whole literature analysis, and I
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: was like, well, and what's really funny is that cloud
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: sometimes goes into these these states where they it gets
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: obsessed with not doing any gender essentialists. But this, at
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: this point that wasn't doing that. And it was like,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: what would be most disturbing for a reading mind to
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: realize is something there Sometimes there's just nothing to read
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: in an operational mind. That an operational mind at rest
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: isn't actually processing anything, or it's processing things that are
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: very low low, but it's not feeling anything or really
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: even doing anything. It's just sort of resting. And that's
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. Like men want peace, And when a
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: man is just sitting there resting, the woman is reading
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: something into him. And I mean, if that's the classic thing,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: isn't it. That's the classic hilarious scenario. And that's what's
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: happening here, except you have to realize that the female
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: mind that's doing the reading is narcissistic, xenophobic, probably a
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: sociopath of some kind, and also highly neurotic. Well maybe
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: I mean neurotic might be self directed, so maybe not.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: So this this is an evil, ugly psychology reading into
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: some dude who's just sort of sitting there and probably
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: thinking about nothing, right, and and she can't stand the
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: thought that he's not thinking about her. And her only
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: concept of the world is domination and xenophobia. So that's
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: what she projects on that this wolf character, whatever the
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: first name is, this feminist wolf character, she's probably a
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: massive xenophobe and a massive narcissist. And so she's that's
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: what she's going to project onto men and a control freak. Right,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: That's that's what's happening here. She's projected. She's a reading
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: mind projecting all of the stuff that she doesn't like
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: about herself onto an operational mind that's probably just sitting
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: there and just quietly doing nothing. It's it's it's blackly
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: hilarious in a way. Okay, let's keep going.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: All right, So let me see where I leave off
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: the development.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: I think the way generals, Yeah, children are socialized and
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: conscious levels.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: Actually know.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, gender roles. That's where I was.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: Generals are based on the household practices of the parents
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: as well as how the children are socialized unconscious and
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: un subconscious levels. Now we're going to talk about consciousness,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: children witness power, and balances between mother and father due
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: to their roles within and outside the household. This reinforces
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: boys's designed to dominate girls, and girls' willingness to cooperate
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: and compromise their agency the key to changing gender construction,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: and therefore the practice of men dominating women can be
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: achieved through altering parenting practices within each family. So that okay,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: So basically, boys observe the interaction between boys watch their
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: parents interact, and the assumption is that.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: The man is dominating his wife.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: And girls see that, and the assumption is that she
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: is submitting, like not not submitting in like I guess
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: a way that is, you know, like a evidence of
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: a team of them working together, but in like a
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: like she is subordinate and unhappy about it. I guess, well,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe not unhappy about it. Maybe that's
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: part of the problem. Maybe women should be unhappy about it. Yeah,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: And boys and girls see that, and they they're basically
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: just acting.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 3: Like their parents. Yeah yeah.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: Like, and here's the other thing, Like it's uh, it's
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: not just projecting onto the operative mind things that aren't there.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: That's basically just her own narcissism and xenophobia. She's also
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: operating in the same kind of register of control and
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: selfish resource acquisition when it comes to other women. So
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: the the real thrill for a lot of these feminists
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: is to destroy other women's ability to pair bond. Like
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: look at look at what what we saw with Sheira
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: Brian and that whole sequence where she's telling this this
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: woman whose boyfriend is an engineer and is like a
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: semester from graduating and probably will get a good job,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: that she wouldn't wait, she wouldn't wait for him to graduate.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: She wouldn't she wouldn't stay in that relationship. He's not
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: made yet, right and he has to come pre made.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: All of that is a woman taking glee and destroying
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: another another woman's reproductive opportunities and resources. That's what a
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: lot of feminism is as just women taking tremendous joy
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: and destroying the process of other women being able to
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: pair bond. It's it's it's sheer relational sabotage on a
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: on a entire civilization scale. And uh, I think that's
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: what that is. It's basically, you know, women like Simone
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: Bouvier saying that we can't allow women put air. Yes,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: we can't allow women to be my wives and mothers,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: because too many women would choose it. Like what kind
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: of mentality says while I don't want women to be happy,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: I don't want women to have choices if that those
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: choices are incompatible with my ideological preferences. Like what kind
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: of woman says that it's a woman who's enjoying the
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: process of destroying another woman's reproductive prospects. These are really
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: really unpleasant human beings like that, I think I'm understating
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: it anyway, Teal deer, you've gotten a little quieter. Are
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: you at your max? Here? I mean we've gone for like,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: what is it almost two hours?
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 4: Jesus, I'm still okay, okay, yeah, So I've got some
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: notes on this paragraph. I mean, the second half is
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 4: basically just kind of saying the same things in different
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 4: ways that kids learned from their parents. I found this
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 4: paragraph a bit interesting in some ways because in some
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 4: ways it kind of implies that if a child only
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: has one parent, they shouldn't grow up like this. Think
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 4: about it, if you're only exposed to seeing a woman
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: in the home, why would you grow up with this
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 4: idea of you know, being a boy and having to
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: dominate anything. You've never seen your mother experiencing that, so
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 4: I guess you wouldn't do it, would you already do already? Durer.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 4: Of course we know that that's the opposite of what happens,
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: but that gives you a pretty solid idea I think
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: of why femmas might be more in favor of single
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 4: mothers as opposed to they're being a man anywhere around
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: and about the place, because if a boy doesn't see
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 4: a man being a man, then he will not dominate women.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 4: The other point which I've got from this the later
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 4: on in this paragraph, and iues said, we could probably
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 4: skip the rest of this paragraphcause it's not particularly interesting,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 4: is talking about men needing to do more for caregiving
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 4: and women needing to do more in the workplace. We
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: all know exactly where this leads. We're seeing the women
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 4: in workplaces thing and the impact that that's having on society.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: As we know, women do not work as much as
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 4: men when they are the primary caregivers or or bread
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: winning parent. I should say there's been a few studies
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: that I've seen on this. It's basically men when they're
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: bread winning for a family, they work on average fifty
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: hours a week women when they're in in their When
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 4: a woman is in the bread winning role, they average
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 4: thirty four hours a week, and to give people an idea,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 4: full time employment is generally considered to start at thirty
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 4: eight so so called bread winning mothers, where they're the
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: primary income of the family on working nowhere near as
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: much as men do. There's also some other examples when
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 4: they like to complain about, oh, women dominate this field
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 4: and they don't know as much as men. Nursing one, yeah, okay, go.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: First, No, i just have to do a quick announcement.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: I'm doing the world revolving I've been I just did
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: it a couple of times. But I'm attempting. I'm tempting
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: the pain for whoever requested it. But you can't hear it,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: you can only see it. Oh of course, okay, keep calling.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So one that keeps coming up in that regard
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 4: is nursing, because women out number men in nursing quite
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: a lot. But you also have to then look at, well,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: why do men earn more in that? And when you
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 4: look at specializations such as working in anaesthetism, which is
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: a very high paying, height stress, high skill job, men
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: outnumber women vastly when it comes to publishing, like publishing literature.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 4: In the nursing thing, men were out publishing women like
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: per capita. It was something like thirteen times, you know,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 4: over an order of magnitude more. And then it's like, well,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: you wonder why men in these sorts of careers end
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 4: up earning more. So when you do this thing, where
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 4: as these feminists are trying to do, we need more
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 4: women in workforces, it's well, basically what you're saying there
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: is that you need infinitely more people, because, as it
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 4: turns out, if you want women to do the same
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 4: current amount of volume of work that men are doing,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 4: you're basically going to need like one and a half
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 4: women for every man. Just based on things like hours work,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 4: the amount of things that are being published in that
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 4: particular field, for example, you're going to need way more
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 4: of them. And this is something they kind of admit
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 4: because they always like to talk about how, oh, women
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 4: women value work life balance more than men do and
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: things like that, which is basically just the way of
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 4: saying they don't work as much, they'd rather spend more
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: time at home. Now I look at those things and
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 4: I say, well, that's not a bad thing. I mean,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 4: you valuing yourself and your time and things that you
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 4: want to do there as opposed to just working all
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 4: the time. There's balances to be had there, there's compromises
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: to be made, but you can't have both of these
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 4: things being true. Or it's like you value yourself and
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 4: your time and your activity over work things and then say,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 4: but your work should be being compensated to the same amount.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 4: There's also the problem that women will never allow this
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 4: to be the case. You look at things like divorce rates.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: When women out earn men, the divorce rate absolutely sky rockets,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 4: like it's not even a question of if it just is.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 4: You know, the worst thing you can do as a
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 4: guy in a relationship is, you know, take a pay
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 4: cut or lose your job, or have your wife suddenly
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 4: earn more than you like, get a promotion. That that's
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 4: if that reaches the point, it's I can't remember what
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: the increase was in the divorce rate. It was huge
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 4: when that happens. And then there's another very distinct problem here,
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 4: and that is going the other way. Men who want
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 4: to work in caregiving, particularly when it comes to children,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 4: when they want to raise children, when they want to
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 4: raise their own an you kind of get a bit
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 4: of a sort of hand wave, wobbly hand kind of
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 4: response to that if you ever want to do anything
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: like that with other people's children, Boy, why are you
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: being such a predator. It just seems to be presumed
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: that if you're a man, you have any interest in
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 4: raising children or teaching children, particularly other people's children, you're
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 4: just going to be presumed to be a predator unless
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 4: you preemptively have reams of evidence that you are not.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 4: And this sort of stuff was codified into law by
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 4: feminist activists, And I'm just remembering there was that case
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 4: not I don't remember how long ago it was, but
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 4: I heard about it earlier in the week where some
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 4: guy was like with his kid at a play park
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 4: and he ended up getting effectively lynched because a group
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 4: of people thought that he was being a predator on
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 4: his own kid somehow, Like he had to basically like
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 4: try to provide id for himself and his child to
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 4: prove that it was his by this just like random
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 4: people because they presumed, oh, you're a man in a
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 4: playpark with kids, you must be a predator, because men
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 4: don't take their kids to the park I guess I
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, it's ridiculous. I mean, honestly, I think it's
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: this is just setting up endless, endless like noise about
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: society that these people can then operate on, Like they
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: can use the goalpost moving, they can use the contradictory
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: expectations on men to just basically win every social like
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: every every food interaction. Like you know how wolves have
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: these interactions over food where they attempt to win the food.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: You know that this is basically the feminist playbook for
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: winning every resource interaction when it comes to men and
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: the resources that men make and are thus obligated to
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: give to women. Okay, we're at two hours.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 3: Guys, should we wrap it up?
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: Well, how far are we in the actual.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: There's like a page and a half left, almost two pages, okay,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: two pages.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I might suggest that if you do want to
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 4: end it here probably be a good idea because the
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 4: next power pograph deals with the development of sexuality and
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 4: obviously painting children as well, So there's that that might spark.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: Some Oh my god, I just yes, it might.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 4: Spark some talking. So if you wanted to.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: Cut papers, should be in jail. I'm going to look
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 3: in the files. Hold on a second.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, actually I was watching a Honey Budger radio thing.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 4: Must have been a month or two ago, and all
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: I could think you were you were talking about something,
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 4: and all I can remember was that episode we did
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 4: about the Feminist that the woman child abuse lit rottica
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 4: that you could buy on Amazon. That was the only
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 4: thing I could think. I can't remember why I was
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: thinking about that, but it was some topic you were
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: talking about. This. I don't remember about the Yeah, I
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 4: remember that particular topic.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: I remember it was horrifying. Yeah, it was horrifying, like
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: you can buy I think it was like a child abuse,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse of boys and what they call sissification, so
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: the female caretaker sisifies the boy and also sexually abuses
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: them and you can buy it on Amazon. So yeah,
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: like that. It is pretty repulsive. And a lot of
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: these women, like Laura Bates, she's got, I think, an
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: unhealthy interest in middle school boys and sexualizing them and
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: subjecting them to sexualization. And this woman should not be
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: listened to. But of course she's considered innocent because not
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: only is she a woman, she's a woman in the UK,
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: and the UK doesn't really recognize that women are sexual
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: preditors for some reason, like even less than the US,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: even less than Canada. And it's a it's a little
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit disturbing that she is allowed to operate
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: her little, uh, her little racket and allowed to get
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: access to vulnerable boys and I meanwhile, a man can't
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: even take care of his own kids without being cast
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: as a predator. All right, So if that's the case,
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, we could pick this up like it sounding
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: like if we get into the next section that we
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: are going to be here for another two hours that
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: show you want, yeah exactly. Don't you have to go
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: pick up your wife?
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: So, I mean it might not be a good idea
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: to start something that's going to get us drawn back
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: into an extended sequence. So yeah, I think it's I
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: am satisfied with the amount of pain that I've suffered today.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know about the two of you, but yeah.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 4: I'm just to inflict misery. And I have to read
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 4: this stuff. So you have to be aware that I
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 4: have read this stuff and you must suffer as I
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 4: have suffered, because I refuse to do that by myself.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: We're socializing the suffering, fair enough, all right, Okay, so
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: I just want to tell yeah, well, you know, suffering
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: shared is suffering multiplied. So if you want to send
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: a message after the show is over, feed the badger
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: dot com slash just the tip. If you want to
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: comment on anything that we've talked about, if you can
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: think of anything to comment on, feed the badger dot
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: com slash just the tip. If you want to support
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: the show, feed the Badger dot com slash support. I'm
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: going to just double check to see if nope, doesn't
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: look like anything. There might be something stuck in the
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: vole and.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: Some change left right, yeah.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just about about a ya about a week,
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: uh yeah, because it's so we got yeah, we got
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: a week in a day left. So guys, get those
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: get those pledges in if you want to do that.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: You want to make sure we can continue to do
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: our analysis as it were. All right, So I'm gonna
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: hand this back to Brian. Thank you for Tielder, for
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: coming on. It's very nice to see you back chatting
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: about this stuff.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah that it could maybe be under non insane circumstances,
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 4: but it can't be.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 4: I do think we also need to go through the
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 4: like the introduction and the epistemology section of the Theorizing
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 4: Patriarchy book. That was the thing that I was originally
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 4: poking you and Brian about, because you keep doing the
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: thing in the shows where it's they've never defined patriarch
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 4: in a way that can be tested. Yes, that is true,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: but I thought like, hey, this one actually defines it,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 4: so maybe that'll be interesting for the listeners.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's do that, well we should. Yeah.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 4: Also the epistemology section of this which is very interesting.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: I say interesting, I mean insane. It's also only about
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 4: two and a half pages, but that's like two and
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: a half book pages, so maybe one and a half
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: a four sides. Ah, you'll have a lot to say
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: No doubt. Okay, all right, so once again, feed the
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: Badger dot com slashes the tip for those comments and tips,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: and feed the Badger dot com slash support to help
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: us out and Badger Nation don online if you want
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: to come on and chat with us or enjoy some
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: of the community activities that we engage in.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 3: All right, Brian, Yeah, let's get out of here, all right.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: If you guys liked this video, please h like, subscribe
• 1:55:53
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• 1:55:57
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• 1:55:59
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• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: of Maintaining Frame with Til Deer, and we will talk
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: to you guys in the next one.