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One Wrong Sentence Just Cost You a Client · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, the Legacy Growth Series. In our last episode, we talked all about presence.
• 0:10
  Melinda Lee: And today, we are going to actually dive into what
• 0:15
  Melinda Lee: test presence. It's those high-stakes moments when conversations are getting heated. Those are the moments that either erode trust or break trust.
• 0:26
  Melinda Lee: So joining me today, she's an amazing entrepreneur, advisor, C-suite executive with over 25 years of experience helping companies, healthcare industry.
• 0:38
  Melinda Lee: early startups and also, large healthcare industry companies through, strategic messaging, partnerships, and go-to-market strategies. She has founded 2Doulas Birth, and also got acquired in 2017.
• 0:54
  Melinda Lee: She is a consultant and an advisor to healthcare companies, founder of Becca Gordon Consulting. Welcome, Becca.
• 1:03
  Becca Gordon: Thank you so much for having me, Melinda. So fun to be back.
• 1:07
  Melinda Lee: I know, this is the second time you're… I just really admire what you do and all your strategies, and so I'm so excited to dive in today to really break down what are the things that erode or build trust in these high-stakes moments. And so, there's… I will start off with this first question. There's a busy entrepreneur, CEO, or executive that has stopped to listen to this episode.
• 1:31
  Melinda Lee: And so, what would you hope would change in their life, when they actually take to heart everything you're about to teach them and talk about today?
• 1:40
  Becca Gordon: I hope that their confidence in their own abilities will grow, because I think that the big overarching message that I plan to share today is about authenticity, and sometimes that's the scariest thing to do as a leader, is to be vulnerable in a way where you're truly being authentic with the people who work with you, work for you.
• 2:00
  Becca Gordon: your clients, your board, etc. But I think when you strip everything else away, and you really go for it, and you speak from a place of truth and authenticity, it makes everything much easier. And you have to think less strategically. You can just be really truthful. Obviously, in…
• 2:19
  Becca Gordon: sometimes crafted ways, you know, and so my hope is that if there's a busy entrepreneur joining us, a busy CEO joining us today, that, you know, they get that…
• 2:29
  Becca Gordon: that permission to speak authentically from their own experience, and… and then listen, right? Because it's a two-way conversation when those high-stake moments happen. It doesn't… it isn't just about speaking, it's about listening.
• 2:40
  Melinda Lee: Yes, yes, yes, yes, and the connection. I love that. Thank you so much for bringing that to light. It's the permission to be authentic, and that is easier said than done.
• 2:51
  Melinda Lee: So let's dive in.
• 2:52
  Becca Gordon: It's scary.
• 2:53
  Melinda Lee: It is really scary, especially for leaders…
• 2:56
  Melinda Lee: Yep, especially for leaders who know, you know, they've had so much experience, and they've come from all the knowledge, and it's like, really? Can I show that I don't have it all together? And so, let's dive into that. And before we get into that, can you share with the audience, what you do, and what is exciting you, today about what you do?
• 3:17
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, so I primarily work with early-stage, seed, Series A, Series B, healthcare companies, mostly in digital health and, and med device, but a little bit across the map, and…
• 3:30
  Becca Gordon: I've been just really excited to work on some of these kind of EQ soft skills things.
• 3:38
  Melinda Lee: with the CEO.
• 3:38
  Becca Gordon: that I work with, and present them in a way that
• 3:42
  Becca Gordon: is authentic to me, which is that these soft skills actually are sort of the core strategic skills that you need to be successful, because markets are going to change, the people that you're interacting with are going to change, the landscape and environment is changing so rapidly with AI coming into healthcare and everybody trying to figure out
• 4:01
  Becca Gordon: how to work with that, and legislative changes, certainly, in this industry are really significant. You know, a new administration comes in, these things change, and it changes again, and
• 4:10
  Becca Gordon: So…
• 4:11
  Becca Gordon: I think the core that makes a company successful, makes a leader successful, is the ability to really understand, like, what it is they're doing, why they're doing it, and then how to communicate that to others.
• 4:26
  Melinda Lee: I think that's…
• 4:27
  Becca Gordon: really the kind of the core of the work that I'm doing right now.
• 4:29
  Melinda Lee: It feels really.
• 4:30
  Becca Gordon: It's authentic to me, so it's really pleasing.
• 4:32
  Melinda Lee: Oh my gosh, and that's why you're here in this conversation.
• 4:35
  Becca Gordon: Yeah.
• 4:36
  Melinda Lee: Yes, I agree with you, because a lot of what traditionally has been thought of as a soft skill.
• 4:42
  Melinda Lee: it's soft because it may be not measurable. It can be actually measured. It's actually more of a… something that can translate to growth and actual metrics for the company.
• 4:53
  Melinda Lee: And so let's start off with talking about these high-stakes moments, when it's so critical, the lot's on the line, what are… as a leadership team.
• 5:06
  Melinda Lee: What are the things that, you see that people or leaders are doing that would erode trust?
• 5:12
  Melinda Lee: In this type of conversation.
• 5:15
  Becca Gordon: I think there's a few. I think one is not having the right people in the room, so I think it's really critical as a leader to understand which members of your leadership team, maybe you're lucky and it's all of them, but which members of your leadership team are right for which types of conversations, because.
• 5:31
  Becca Gordon: We're very talented leaders in certain…
• 5:35
  Becca Gordon: organizations that I've worked with that are wonderful at what they do, manage their team successfully, all the metrics, analytics, deliverable, everything is excellent, but when it comes to their communication skills or ability to be in those high-stakes situations and conversations, maybe that's not their strong suit.
• 5:52
  Becca Gordon: Eventually, that's probably a ceiling for them, right? Or something they're gonna have to grow in if they're gonna.
• 5:57
  Becca Gordon: in their career, but I think as the.
• 5:58
  Melinda Lee: CEO.
• 5:59
  Becca Gordon: As the leader of a team, it's really important to have the right people in the room and understand the temperament.
• 6:04
  Becca Gordon: Of your.
• 6:05
  Melinda Lee: partnership.
• 6:06
  Becca Gordon: team, understand who you have available to you. Part of being a leader is selecting, kind of, who's in the conversation, where and when you can, right?
• 6:13
  Becca Gordon: member is going to ask to speak to everybody, or sometimes you have a customer service issue that has to go to a customer service leader, or what have you, but I think where you can, kind of cultivating who's in the room is really important.
• 6:24
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, having that forethought and the planning to do that. And so even when you have these leaders that are in there, and I think that when we are thinking about the leadership team and those that are eroding trust, they might be
• 6:38
  Melinda Lee: not communicating well, or they might be fumbling on their words, or… or closed off. Like, I also think about, on the opposite side, some of these leaders that are so smart, because a lot of them are in there for a reason, there's a gamut. They can also be
• 6:55
  Melinda Lee: Talking too much.
• 6:57
  Becca Gordon: Totally.
• 6:58
  Melinda Lee: Have you found that?
• 6:59
  Becca Gordon: Absolutely. I think
• 7:01
  Becca Gordon: It's a balance, right, where it's really important if you are having multiple individuals from your team in a conversation.
• 7:09
  Melinda Lee: station.
• 7:09
  Becca Gordon: That you're demonstrating respect among your team, right?
• 7:13
  Becca Gordon: And what that requires is a pretty high level of emotional intelligence for those.
• 7:18
  Melinda Lee: as leaders.
• 7:18
  Becca Gordon: They're in that conversation, because.
• 7:20
  Becca Gordon: It's knowing when to speak about their area of expertise, but it's also knowing when to show, respect to their teammates.
• 7:30
  Melinda Lee: and dear.
• 7:30
  Becca Gordon: you know, maybe turn the floor over to somebody else and say, I appreciate you asking me that question. It's really not my area of expertise within this organization. That set of topics is handled by this person. You know, they could.
• 7:43
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 7:43
  Becca Gordon: to that than I can, right? And so the way that the leadership team speaks about one another and speaks to one another
• 7:51
  Becca Gordon: It becomes really visible to the.
• 7:53
  Becca Gordon: board member, this outside person that's coming in, right?
• 7:56
  Melinda Lee: Thank you.
• 7:57
  Becca Gordon: that respect, even if you don't always agree, you don't have to.
• 8:00
  Melinda Lee: Agree.
• 8:01
  Becca Gordon: on the strategy that someone is bringing up, but you do have to show them a level of real tremendous respect.
• 8:09
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 8:10
  Becca Gordon: That's really important.
• 8:11
  Melinda Lee: Right, because a lot of times we're in the room, and it's, an important conversation, and then we want to be right, and…
• 8:20
  Becca Gordon: And we want to be heard.
• 8:21
  Melinda Lee: And we want to be heard!
• 8:23
  Becca Gordon: Yes.
• 8:23
  Melinda Lee: Yes, and so that could come at the cost of maybe even disagreeing with your partner or your teammate in front of a client, because you want to be heard. But then, as you're saying, from the client's perspective or from the audience perspective, it really doesn't look good. It doesn't build a good, solid reputation of.
• 8:43
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, I'm a really strong believer in, like, the person who's the closest with that client is the person.
• 8:48
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, that should…
• 8:48
  Becca Gordon: be leading the conversation. If it's a board member, the person who's the closest with that board member should be the person who's introing the conversation, and they're pulling in their teammates and bringing them in on their areas of expertise and to add color, but to have kind of one person in that team designated to sort of be the narrator and be the person who is
• 9:06
  Becca Gordon: Is the fulcrum for your team, and having that person be the one who has
• 9:10
  Becca Gordon: The closest relationship to that.
• 9:12
  Melinda Lee: outside.
• 9:13
  Becca Gordon: individual, I think, is.
• 9:14
  Melinda Lee: Oh my god.
• 9:14
  Becca Gordon: And then the other piece is listening, right? Because every.
• 9:18
  Melinda Lee: conversation.
• 9:19
  Becca Gordon: It has two sides, and…
• 9:20
  Melinda Lee: Jesus.
• 9:21
  Becca Gordon: I think when we're in high-stakes situations, we want to be right, and we want to be heard, and sometimes we forget that 90% of what is really needed in those higher-stakes situations is to hear what the other person is saying. And so a lot of times, if there's something going awry, and that's why there's a high-stakes conversation happening, right?
• 9:40
  Becca Gordon: That other person wants to be heard, and they don't…
• 9:43
  Melinda Lee: I just wanted.
• 9:43
  Becca Gordon: heard, and they want to be validated, and it doesn't really have a lot to do with the content of what you would say in response. It's more the feeling that you're giving that client who's upset, or that board member who needs more color, or, you know, whatever else is going on.
• 9:58
  Becca Gordon: You know, what they really want is…
• 10:00
  Becca Gordon: the board member wants to feel heard with their ideas, the client wants to feel heard with their complaint, right? And so, obviously, your response to that is important, but it's really secondary to the first part, which is making sure that person feels heard. And it's hard sometimes, because you could be in a room with maybe one or two representatives from the client, one board member, and, like, four team members or more, right?
• 10:20
  Becca Gordon: And so, to get everybody on the same page, to be like, okay, we really need to listen and ask questions of this person that we're meeting with before we dive into our solution building, I think is really.
• 10:30
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, what would you say to someone that traditionally likes to speak and puts in their opinion? How would I know if I am talking too much?
• 10:40
  Becca Gordon: So, I have 3 strategies. I am that person. I really am a super Type A, like, Virgo person.
• 10:45
  Melinda Lee: and I.
• 10:46
  Becca Gordon: I love to be right, and I love to have information to share, and it absolutely.
• 10:49
  Melinda Lee: Yes!
• 10:50
  Becca Gordon: in a meeting where I don't get to speak, right? So I have a couple tactics that work really well for me.
• 10:55
  Melinda Lee: That is cool.
• 10:56
  Becca Gordon: myself on mute, so I actually have.
• 10:58
  Melinda Lee: and do something.
• 10:58
  Becca Gordon: Right, if it' virtual meeting, I'll keep myself on mute, because.
• 11:02
  Melinda Lee: then…
• 11:02
  Becca Gordon: I actually have to do something to participate, right?
• 11:05
  Becca Gordon: And then other ways, like, tangible ways that I help myself pause, and I've seen work for my clients, is, like, to have a drink. So, like, right now, I have my water, I could have a coffee, and so someone says something, and before I'm allowed to respond to it, I have to, like, take a sip of my water, take a sip of my coffee. It's like that moment of pause.
• 11:24
  Melinda Lee: before.
• 11:24
  Becca Gordon: speaking. And then the other thing that works great for me, and I do in almost every meeting, is I actually take physical notes. And so, I have to be listening to the other people in the conversation, and not just kind of thinking of what I'm going to be saying next. And I'll take notes on everything that the other person is saying.
• 11:42
  Melinda Lee: Like, really…
• 11:43
  Becca Gordon: Pay attention to what they're doing, and that gives me something to do with my hands, my brain, my heart, while they're speaking, and not just jump in with…
• 11:52
  Melinda Lee: I love that. I love that you're using your hands, your eyes, your heart, you're using.
• 11:56
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, it has to be, like, really somatic, right?
• 11:58
  Melinda Lee: And so maybe it'.
• 11:59
  Becca Gordon: maybe note-taking isn't the only thing that works, but that really, really works for me. And then it also is helpful because then I can refer back to those notes and be like.
• 12:06
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 12:07
  Becca Gordon: you know, I was thinking about the part where you were sharing, you know, about how we let you down in this particular area, you know, of service, and, you know, these are some ideas I have about ways that we can rectify that moving forward, right? So it also demonstrates listening, where you're like, actually, I heard what you said.
• 12:25
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love that. I love that. So using more parts of us, and… and so these are high-stakes conversations, and you're saying that the most important thing is listening and, giving other people a chance to feel heard. And so what would happen… what do you suggest someone should do if
• 12:44
  Melinda Lee: someone asked me a question, and I don't know how to answer the question. Earlier, you mentioned just to be authentic, like, tell me more about
• 12:54
  Melinda Lee: what I can do, especially if this is an important conversation, and I want to be… I want to do well. Yeah.
• 13:01
  Becca Gordon: I think there's a couple pieces, right? So, it depends a little bit on what's being asked of you, right? And if you don't know the answer.
• 13:10
  Becca Gordon: know the answer, don't have a clue, and somebody else on your team might.
• 13:15
  Melinda Lee: I think it's…
• 13:15
  Becca Gordon: completely appropriate to, like, turn the floor over to that person. Thank you so.
• 13:20
  Melinda Lee: Thanks so much for your.
• 13:20
  Becca Gordon: answering that question. The person on our team with the most expertise on that matter is X, so I'm going to hand it over to Melinda to…
• 13:28
  Melinda Lee: Answer your.
• 13:28
  Becca Gordon: question, right? And that just, again, demonstrates respect, it demonstrates humbleness, like, so many.
• 13:33
  Melinda Lee: be good quality.
• 13:33
  Becca Gordon: qualities without you.
• 13:34
  Melinda Lee: Like, teamwork.
• 13:35
  Becca Gordon: answer.
• 13:36
  Melinda Lee: Right, and teamwork, yep, yep.
• 13:38
  Becca Gordon: One, sometimes we think we don't know the answer, but we actually do know the answer.
• 13:43
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I'm reaching.
• 13:43
  Becca Gordon: just aren't confident enough to say it. So I think those are kind of different situations, right? And if we don't feel empowered by our CEO to say it, or we're worried
• 13:53
  Becca Gordon: What our board member is going to say.
• 13:55
  Melinda Lee: They hear.
• 13:55
  Becca Gordon: or our investor is going to say if they hear what we said, but we do know the answer to a question. That's a little more dicey to me, right? And I think.
• 14:02
  Melinda Lee: kidnapped.
• 14:03
  Becca Gordon: The best thing to do is that pause.
• 14:06
  Becca Gordon: When you… they ask you a question, you feel like you have to really respond right away.
• 14:10
  Melinda Lee: I think it's perfect.
• 14:11
  Becca Gordon: It's perfectly reasonable to say something like.
• 14:14
  Becca Gordon: Thank you so much for answering, you know, asking me that question. I'm actually thinking of the answer as we sit here.
• 14:19
  Melinda Lee: And these are…
• 14:20
  Becca Gordon: Awesome things that are coming to mind.
• 14:22
  Melinda Lee: Awesome.
• 14:22
  Becca Gordon: So, I'd really love to formulate my thoughts a little bit further.
• 14:26
  Melinda Lee: I don't feel like.
• 14:26
  Becca Gordon: I can come up with the best possible answer for you in this setting, would it be okay if I got back with you within the next week or two?
• 14:33
  Melinda Lee: And I can pull…
• 14:34
  Becca Gordon: some analytics and look into that particular thing further, right? So, I think there's a way to say.
• 14:40
  Becca Gordon: These are some thoughts I'm having, this is where.
• 14:41
  Melinda Lee: Marina's going…
• 14:43
  Becca Gordon: not clueless on this topic, but also, like, I want to make sure to give you the best possible answer that I.
• 14:49
  Melinda Lee: again, and I can't do that.
• 14:50
  Becca Gordon: that in 20 seconds, okay?
• 14:52
  Melinda Lee: I love it. I mean, and I think that that, for me as a listener, I admire that. I respect that. I, you know, I'd prefer that you wait and pause and… and…
• 15:04
  Melinda Lee: take the time to think about your answer, and then share what you honestly are thinking about what's coming up, and then also, if you have more, you know, opportunity to go get data, more accurate data, I would like that.
• 15:15
  Becca Gordon: And talk to more people, right? Like, let me talk to more people.
• 15:17
  Melinda Lee: That's all about it.
• 15:18
  Becca Gordon: And find out what they think, and, you know, consolidate any.
• 15:21
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, sure.
• 15:21
  Becca Gordon: I'm.
• 15:22
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, awesome!
• 15:22
  Becca Gordon: I've been known to be the person in these conversations that I'll say one thing as a potential solution, we'll be going down this pathway, and then I'll realize, you know, something… I'll come up with a different answer, right?
• 15:34
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Becca Gordon: It's totally reasonable to say.
• 15:37
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 15:37
  Becca Gordon: In the moment.
• 15:38
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 15:39
  Becca Gordon: sitting here talking, I'm actually wondering, and phrasing it as a question is a great tip.
• 15:43
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, right. I'm actually wondering…
• 15:44
  Becca Gordon: if it would make more sense, or it would make sense to also explore.
• 15:49
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 15:49
  Becca Gordon: Y or Z, right?
• 15:50
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 15:51
  Becca Gordon: When you phrase something as a question, if someone asks you a question, you can direct a question back to them, you know?
• 15:56
  Melinda Lee: I'd love.
• 15:56
  Becca Gordon: to give you more information about that. Could you clarify for me what exactly it is that you're wanting, A, B, or C, right? And then that gives you more color, it also gives you more time to kind of.
• 16:06
  Melinda Lee: think about.
• 16:07
  Becca Gordon: How it is that you want to respond.
• 16:11
  Melinda Lee: I love it, yeah, and I think that it's also important to bring people into the conversation, too, when you can. Then… then you become, like, a joint collaboration, brainstorming, and so that's a good strategy, too.
• 16:25
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, four breaks.
• 16:25
  Melinda Lee: do that.
• 16:26
  Becca Gordon: better than one, and you.
• 16:27
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Becca Gordon: You have people on your team that can…
• 16:30
  Becca Gordon: You know, that have good ideas to share.
• 16:33
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, because the alternative is, like, making up something, and then they find out that it's not correct. That wouldn't be terrible. That will break your trust… break trust so quickly.
• 16:44
  Becca Gordon: I think that when someone asks a pointed question, they necessarily.
• 16:47
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:47
  Becca Gordon: want an immediate answer.
• 16:50
  Melinda Lee: Yes, they do.
• 16:50
  Becca Gordon: I've definitely.
• 16:51
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Becca Gordon: board members, I've known invest… I've known people who.
• 16:54
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:54
  Becca Gordon: I really want that answer right now.
• 16:56
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 16:57
  Becca Gordon: Maybe you're picking up on that energy of, like, they want you to know the answer, right?
• 17:01
  Becca Gordon: Even in that situation, I think it's better if you're not clear about how you want to respond to take that
• 17:08
  Becca Gordon: than it is to.
• 17:09
  Melinda Lee: Mmm.
• 17:10
  Becca Gordon: Respond because you're feeling that pressure from the other person.
• 17:13
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 17:13
  Becca Gordon: month.
• 17:14
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and then also, we also want to go into it prepared, trying to think of all the questions as much as possible, and answers to those questions, but then once you get in there, and they ask you a question that you hadn't even thought about, then at that point, yeah, just be authentic.
• 17:32
  Melinda Lee: It's not like you didn't go into it prepared.
• 17:34
  Melinda Lee: It's not here.
• 17:36
  Becca Gordon: I've been prepared for one meal
• 17:38
  Becca Gordon: And the meeting is something completely different.
• 17:40
  Melinda Lee: Something different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so sometimes it is, like, when they're… you're in this…
• 17:47
  Melinda Lee: high-pressure situation, our minds are racing, and, you know, like you said, we may not know the answer, or maybe we forget that we are confident enough to answer those questions. Like, it's just more of a confident mindset thing. Like, what advice would you give someone
• 18:05
  Melinda Lee: Just to help them feel more grounded and confident.
• 18:09
  Becca Gordon: Slow down.
• 18:11
  Becca Gordon: So again, all these techniques, whether it's note-taking or water sipping or something else, a grounding technique that I really like is just a quick, my feet are on the floor, and just.
• 18:21
  Melinda Lee: Like, the bottom of the feet on the floor, right? Yeah.
• 18:24
  Becca Gordon: in-person meeting.
• 18:25
  Melinda Lee: and I can.
• 18:26
  Becca Gordon: you know, do all of my muting myself tricks that I would do if I were
• 18:30
  Becca Gordon: You know, just please.
• 18:32
  Melinda Lee: Seeing my feet.
• 18:32
  Becca Gordon: on the floor, and hey, the soles of my feet are on the floor, right? And even just having that moment of grounding.
• 18:38
  Becca Gordon: No matter how you respond after that, it's going to give the cadence of what you say, the tone of what you say.
• 18:46
  Becca Gordon: A different vibration, right?
• 18:48
  Melinda Lee: Yay.
• 18:48
  Melinda Lee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I even advise my clients to wiggle their toes, to… to feel that, so that they have more… I'm here. I'm here, I feel supported by the ground.
• 19:02
  Melinda Lee: It is so important, because it's a different energy, because then you're not…
• 19:06
  Melinda Lee: somewhere else, like your thoughts… because what happens is when people are, not confident, their thoughts are all over the place, like, oh my gosh, am I saying the right thing? Oh my gosh, what are they thinking?
• 19:18
  Becca Gordon: I think another thing I've noticed with leadership teams is that there's a lot of preparation that goes in for each individual person in the group.
• 19:25
  Melinda Lee: with the.
• 19:25
  Becca Gordon: best leadership teams prepare as a group. And so…
• 19:28
  Melinda Lee: they're.
• 19:28
  Becca Gordon: be some sort of pre-meeting that involves almost a practice run, right? Of, like, hey, the person that's closest to the problem or the closest to the situation will brief everybody and will come up… we'll paint the picture of, this is what I think the meeting is. Obviously.
• 19:43
  Melinda Lee: May or may not use.
• 19:44
  Becca Gordon: exactly that. And then there will be a conversation of, okay, this is the person who's going to lead the meeting. When it comes to this topic, I'm going to hand it over to that person.
• 19:53
  Becca Gordon: And obviously, things may go a little differently than that in the meeting if the client or the board member or whoever it is that you're.
• 19:59
  Melinda Lee: meeting.
• 19:59
  Becca Gordon: if takes it in a different direction, but I think having that group preparation is really important, and I've.
• 20:05
  Melinda Lee: seen sometimes.
• 20:06
  Becca Gordon: in busy organizations, the time is spent, you know, bringing in charts and data and, you know, things from each department, rather than coming together as a group and being like, this is the main purpose of this meeting, this is.
• 20:18
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:19
  Becca Gordon: out of it. These.
• 20:20
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Becca Gordon: ways that we want to handle.
• 20:22
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 20:23
  Becca Gordon: strategically what comes up in the meeting, right? Right, right. And so, in the best situations, you have the time to do that, and you take the.
• 20:30
  Melinda Lee: time to prepare.
• 20:30
  Becca Gordon: In that way, as a group.
• 20:32
  Melinda Lee: Oh, yeah, I love that. It's so true, because it makes me think about all the times that we, even for us individually, when we're preparing for a presentation, we're looking at all the data, and trying to prepare all the script word for word, and then we just really forget, what is it that we're trying to… what is the purpose of my presentation? And so, like, having that forethought and planning as a team, what is the purpose of the presentation? Where's the direction that we're going? What is…
• 20:56
  Melinda Lee: what are we trying to convey as a whole versus the individual parts, right? The individual parts and roles and tasks is important, but then coming back together to identify what is the purpose of the entire team as a whole, collectively.
• 21:10
  Becca Gordon: Exactly, and hopefully that is an environment for safe feedback, too, where if someone.
• 21:14
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Becca Gordon: is, like, talking too much, or too afraid to talk, or doesn't.
• 21:17
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Becca Gordon: say, or says something off-color, whatever it is, right? That…
• 21:22
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 21:22
  Becca Gordon: the rest of the group has built trust with that person over time, and has a way of saying, hey, you know, I really loved, you know, this compliment sandwich, right? Like, I really loved how, you know, confident you were to speak, and, you know, I really appreciate some of what you said about X, Y, or Z, and I don't know if you realize this, but, you know, we're going to have an hour-long meeting with this person, and what you said just took 40 minutes, so is there a way that, you know, you can consolidate some of those ideas?
• 21:45
  Becca Gordon: More so that when we get to this part of the conversation, your part takes
• 21:49
  Becca Gordon: You know, 8 minutes instead of 40.
• 21:51
  Melinda Lee: And as a leadership team, what do you think would be possible when they start to prepare for their presentations like this, versus just everybody go practice their individual components, versus what you just mentioned?
• 22:05
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, I think what's possible is,
• 22:08
  Becca Gordon: Well, maybe I… I don't know if I'm understanding your question completely.
• 22:11
  Melinda Lee: What are the outcomes that you think that…
• 22:14
  Becca Gordon: The outcomes is that the team has a more cohesive approach, and that.
• 22:18
  Melinda Lee: indeed.
• 22:18
  Becca Gordon: They seem more prepared, not.
• 22:21
  Melinda Lee: Because they…
• 22:21
  Becca Gordon: have more charts and more analytics to provide. I mean, those things exist, and they're useful, but because they have a plan, and they're.
• 22:30
  Becca Gordon: And a felt sense that the other person in the conversation has of, you know, this is orderly, this is prepared for, they cared about me enough to think about this conversation beforehand, they respect one another, they're in alignment, right?
• 22:44
  Melinda Lee: Thank you.
• 22:44
  Becca Gordon: there's nothing worse than going into a meeting across a leadership team, and one person thinking that the primary purpose of the meeting is A, and somebody thinking the primary purpose of the meeting is B on the same team, and having that sort of polarity in that
• 23:00
  Becca Gordon: It really can create a lot of distrust and, like, brokenness with the person.
• 23:05
  Becca Gordon: to, just in.
• 23:06
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 23:07
  Becca Gordon: as a human being, if you're seeing two people kind of go in two different directions, and they're meant to be on the same team providing service to you, or, you know, an organization that you're working for.
• 23:17
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, right. And it's so true. And so what about if it's a whole company? Because now we're talking about a team that can be, yeah, build that reputation with the client. And if you think about when companies build a culture of communication, not just as a soft skill, but as a standard with clear outcomes and,
• 23:39
  Melinda Lee: clear standards for connection to clients. What is the impact of that for companies?
• 23:46
  Melinda Lee: When they could do it across the leadership team and all the staff.
• 23:49
  Becca Gordon: It's tremendous, because there's a lot of research to back me up here. At the end of the day, people spend their money not with a company that provides the best product. I mean, providing a great product is important, don't get me wrong.
• 24:02
  Melinda Lee: people.
• 24:02
  Becca Gordon: People will choose the second best product if it's provided by people that they trust.
• 24:08
  Becca Gordon: Every single time across the board. And so, you know, my specialty and the work that I've done, both internal to organizations, working with organizations, is really about that relationship management piece.
• 24:17
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:18
  Becca Gordon: if you can get a cohesive strategy, training, and, you know, metrics that align with your plans for communication across your team to external bodies, and then, you know, setting aside the internal piece, because I think that's really important, too. I think that
• 24:36
  Becca Gordon: Your growth trajectory is markedly different, because the customers that you have feel seen, feel heard, feel taken care of across the organization, feel like your organization has a plan, right?
• 24:49
  Melinda Lee: Mine's one.
• 24:50
  Becca Gordon: another are, like.
• 24:50
  Melinda Lee: We're talking.
• 24:51
  Becca Gordon: execute something together, right? And people who are new to your organization and prospective clients are getting messaging that's in alignment from the different touchpoints that they have, whether it's, like, your marketing team, your sales.
• 25:04
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Becca Gordon: and…
• 25:05
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 25:06
  Becca Gordon: People that they're speaking to on the back end about putting their package together, right?
• 25:10
  Melinda Lee: Sounds good, I love it, I love it. And you, your two doula's birth was acquired.
• 25:15
  Melinda Lee: In 2017, you founded it, and it got acquired, and what do you think would be the through line? What do you think are some of the key indicators of success? How did you do that?
• 25:23
  Melinda Lee: So curious.
• 25:24
  Becca Gordon: That's probably, like, a whole hour-long conversation.
• 25:27
  Melinda Lee: I can't…
• 25:28
  Becca Gordon: In and of itself.
• 25:29
  Melinda Lee: I can carry…
• 25:29
  Becca Gordon: There were things that I did intentionally that were really useful, like.
• 25:33
  Melinda Lee: Okay, let's share those, yeah.
• 25:34
  Becca Gordon: Like, identifying a product in a niche market that didn't exist.
• 25:38
  Melinda Lee: that needed.
• 25:38
  Becca Gordon: To exist, that there was.
• 25:39
  Melinda Lee: Yay.
• 25:40
  Becca Gordon: for.
• 25:41
  Melinda Lee: But then there were also.
• 25:41
  Becca Gordon: things that I lucked into, like, I didn't have a name for the company, I founded it with a co-founder, and we called it To Doula's Birth out of just it being practical, but actually, because of keywords and SEO, which were kind of just coming up in 2012 when we were founded, naming it 2Doula's Birth actually had, like, a huge impact in terms of our capabilities to grassroots market, because of, like, having doula and birth in the name.
• 26:05
  Melinda Lee: Yay. Right?
• 26:06
  Becca Gordon: And we just lucked into that, right? So I think…
• 26:09
  Becca Gordon: As a leader, there's a luck piece involved in taking any company to acquisition.
• 26:13
  Melinda Lee: especially.
• 26:13
  Becca Gordon: If you don't originally have the backing of a large company or a large investor, and you're doing it from a, you know, grassroots growth model.
• 26:21
  Melinda Lee: Mmm.
• 26:21
  Becca Gordon: And then there's also things intentionally, right? And I think the key pieces for me are product and people, right?
• 26:28
  Melinda Lee: And so…
• 26:29
  Becca Gordon: You have the right people, and you have the right product.
• 26:33
  Becca Gordon: you're a lot of steps ahead, and if one of those things is off, that's so core and fundamental to all these.
• 26:39
  Becca Gordon: We're talking about moving forward, really.
• 26:42
  Melinda Lee: So it sounds like you had the right product. Like you said, it was a niche, and it was needed in the market, you had the right word, the SEO, and then what about the people? How did you… what was your success in building the people?
• 26:52
  Becca Gordon: I think that that part was very intentional as well.
• 26:56
  Melinda Lee: and my.
• 26:56
  Becca Gordon: and I decided from a very early stage that the only people that we were going to work with, hire, refer to, have teaching our classes.
• 27:04
  Becca Gordon: Have in people's homes, have at their births, you know, because we had this whole, kind of, holistic care model that involved childbirth education classes and doula referral services and a lot of other things, community things.
• 27:14
  Becca Gordon: And our commitment was, if we wouldn't want to see that person when we were in labor, if we would want to have that person, you know, walk into the room when we had a 3-week-old baby, then we're not going to work with them. And sometimes maybe there were people that we missed out on, because we just didn't resonate with that individual.
• 27:31
  Becca Gordon: You know, that might not be 100%… a batting 100, right, to do.
• 27:35
  Melinda Lee: Isn't me?
• 27:36
  Becca Gordon: But that was the way that we were like, you know, the way that we're going to have the right people for this organization on our team is that these have to be people that we would want to work with if we were our clients.
• 27:45
  Melinda Lee: it's reverse. Well, it worked!
• 27:48
  Becca Gordon: Yeah, it's good!
• 27:49
  Melinda Lee: Congratulations! Congratulations on your success, that's amazing, and…
• 27:54
  Melinda Lee: Oh, thank you so much. I learned so much today. I think you're, you know, just being authentic in those high-stakes moments. You shared so many tips about how to stay confident, how to prepare for the meetings, and what this all means for leadership teams and for companies that are really being thoughtful in the way that they communicate, and what that's perceived like to the clients. And so, really appreciate your time today, Becca.
• 28:19
  Melinda Lee: And, if there's someone that, you know, needs your help, they're listening right now, how can they get ahold of you?
• 28:27
  Becca Gordon: So, they can get ahold of me through my email, which is Beccafgordon at gmail.com. At this point, with my consulting practice, I was sharing with you pre-call, I do Zoom marketing, it's all word of mouth, so…
• 28:39
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 28:39
  Becca Gordon: Feel free to send me an email, and.
• 28:41
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, you're amazing, and so people refer you, and so congratulations.
• 28:48
  Becca Gordon: Thank you so much, I'm really.
• 28:49
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 28:49
  Becca Gordon: I love having these conversations, I feel like
• 28:52
  Becca Gordon: my career where I really want to be mentoring and helping others as much as I'm, you know, doing things in my own practice.
• 28:59
  Melinda Lee: Well, yeah, and I always admire you, because I…
• 29:01
  Becca Gordon: opportunity.
• 29:01
  Melinda Lee: No, you got… you have so much insight, you have so many insights with regard to operations, go-to-market strategies, but then you have this authenticity about you that I really admire, so thank you so much for being here.
• 29:13
  Becca Gordon: Thank you so much. This is fun.
• 29:14
  Melinda Lee: Yes, thank you, and thank you, listeners. I trust that you got your takeaway for today. Go implement them, and remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate, you are also connecting and sharing to make a positive difference in the world. If you've enjoyed this session, this episode, join me for the next one. In our next episode, we're going to talk about how to build your company and scale it without losing the
• 29:39
  Melinda Lee: Culture that built it.
• 29:41
  Melinda Lee: Until next time, take care. Bye-bye.