Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Will $100,000 reward buy Tampa Serial killer's name? Mom killer complains about 10 year prison sentence; new charges in Penn State hazing

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Will $100,000 reward buy Tampa Serial killer's name? Mom killer complains about 10 year prison sentence; new charges in Penn State hazing · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: one thirty two. Tampa police on the hunt for a
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: killer after the shooting gats of three people in ten days.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We will hunt this son of a down until we
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  Speaker 1: find the three victims gunned down less than half a
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  Speaker 1: mile apart. Tampa's mayor doing what he can to reassure
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the public so that they've added a thousand street lights
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to the Seminal Heights neighborhood and that they won't stop
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: until that killer is caught. Nobody comes into our house
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and does this not now, not ever. Authorities pouring over,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bringing surveillance video for clues, looking at this person of
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  Speaker 1: interest walking alone, wearing a hood on the night of
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  Speaker 1: the first killing. I need that Seminar Heights community to
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: stand up and I need them to point out who
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that man is. You guys, go hunt him down and
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: bring his head to me. One hundred thousand dollars offered
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: as reward for information on the Tampa serial killer. The
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Tampa community lulled into us sense of safety and complacency.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: When the serial killer strikes again, I, Nancy Grace, this
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories, and we want to put a stop
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to the Tampa serial killer. He has now claimed the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: lives of four innocent people. Why joining me from w
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: f l A. Meredith SINCEULO on the scene. Dr Daniel
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Bober forensics psychiatrists joining us and also death investigator, forensics
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: expert Professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Morgan first straight out to Meredith. SINCEULO with w f
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  Speaker 1: l A on the scene, Meredith, what's the latest. Well,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Papa Police have now officially declared the person seen in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that first surveillance video. They now say that he is
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: a suspect, and they also believe that he is the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: person involved in the fourth murder that occurred this week.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: That's the murder of ron W. Felton. The right now,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Tampa police believe the person on the videotape is a
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: suspect in the murder of Benjamin Mitchell and very likely
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a suspect, the very least a person of interest in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the murder of Ronald Sultan this week. They are not
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: saying that that person is a suspect in murders two
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and three because they don't have actual suspect description in
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: those cases. But again, they are treating all four of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: those cases as related. Meredith since Ulo with w f
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  Speaker 1: l A joining us on the scene. Meredith, let's talk
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: about this new video that has been released. What do
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you see and what can we learn? The new video
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: is more surveillance camera videos similar to what we saw
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: after the first murder. So these are new images captured
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  Speaker 1: on surveillance video of a person walking down the street
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: in the moments before Ronald Felton was killed. So that's
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: what was released by the Tampa Police most recently. And
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: because of that, they believe that that person is the
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: person of interest in the fourth murder, and they're also
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: tying that person back to the first murder. The one
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: thing that they really want people to pay attention to
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the interesting gait that this person has. They believe that
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the way that this man walks, they describe it as
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a very specific walk a stance, I guess you could say,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and they think that that is a distinguishing feature of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the person that may stick out to someone. Also, you'll
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: remember from the first surveillance video they pointed out an
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: interesting man rhythm that the man had where he was
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: fiddling and flipping his phone around. Those are just those
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: personality traits that they feel like somebody would notice those things.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: They would notice the way that he handles the phone,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: they would notice the way that he carries himself, the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: way that he walked, And they are hoping that those
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: two things helped identify the person because, as you know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: the suspect description is incredibly vague. It's a tall, thin,
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  Speaker 1: light skinned black man last seen wearing all black clothing
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and a black baseball cap. That could describe a lot
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: of people. So they are hoping that the additional description
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  Speaker 1: of those mannerisms will help trigger someone's knowledge about this person.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: They're also pointing out that they want people to keep
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: in mind the times of day that these murders were committed.
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  Speaker 1: The most recent one happened at four fifty one in
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  Speaker 1: the morning, and so they say, you know, is there
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  Speaker 1: somebody that was supposed to be home between four thirty
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  Speaker 1: and five am and they weren't. Little things like that,
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  Speaker 1: The mannerisms, the time of day could provide very important
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: clues to solving this spring of murders. With me there
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: in Florida is Meredith Cinculo, w f l A to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, that sounds like, let me
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: just blunt bs. Okay, my B Sameter is really off
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  Speaker 1: the chart right now. So if you think all four
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  Speaker 1: murders random murders, this guy's picking people off like a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: sniper in Tampa, are related, and they're saying he's a
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: suspect in one of the cases but not two and three,
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  Speaker 1: that just doesn't make sense. If they're saying that all
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  Speaker 1: four are connected, why are they saying that Joe Scott
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: maybe on those other two cases, they don't have definitive
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  Speaker 1: connection to them as far as something like ballistics, which
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to this point, to my knowledge, at least, they haven't
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: given us definitive proof. Uh. That's the only thing I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: can think unless they're unless they're kind of vesting their
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: cards at this point in time and not wanting to
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: release any more information relative to this. I do know this.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: The surveillance video that I've seen, UM, which is from
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: multiple points of view at different times, UH, certainly appears
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that this, uh, this person who they believe is connected,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: has the same gait and is proudly through this particular
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: same area in the m O Phil It's uh, in
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  Speaker 1: all of these cases, UH, he's selecting these people apparently
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: connected to the bus line. Uh, he's approaching them with
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  Speaker 1: stealth and UH and gunning them down and then X
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  Speaker 1: filling from the area as quickly as he possibly can.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Nancy just got more death investigator. I hear what you're saying,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: but they said the same thing. And the Missy Beaver's case,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: they're in Middle Lothian, Texas. Oh, we got the person there,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: this tall, there this, they weighed this much, and they've
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: got a peculiar gate that in four dollars will buy
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Okay, so the gate,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: sch mate. I'm happy they noticed that. I noticed it too,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: but that I don't know that's gonna help me. Joseph's
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  Speaker 1: got Morgan. I don't know that it's necessarily going to
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  Speaker 1: help in a specific identification, but it has it has
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  Speaker 1: the ability to narrow things down, uh to the point
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: where we can exclude all others. And this is a
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: process that the investigators have to go through methodically, So
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be turning over every piece of evidence. In
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: one I say turning over, what I mean is look
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: under every possible rock that they can't uh. And this
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: is merely a starting place. Uh. In this case, Nancy
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and there are multiple points of of of start here,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: if you will, where everything from ballistic evidence to the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: gate time of day. Wait a minute, Wait a minute,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm just remembering something. Joe Scott Morrigan,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I prosecuted a guy believed to be a serial killer
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and the murder of Jane Doe was very hard prosecuting him. Um,
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  Speaker 1: he turned out to be a chef and he had
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a limp. And I later modeled a character in my
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: book Eleventh the Victim, after him, not totally him. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: changed him a lot, but it's a chef with a limp, okay,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and that limp was important. Now what you're saying, I said, Gates, mate,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I retract that. I asked that it be struck from
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the record because you can at trial. Let me go
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: to Dr Daniel Bober, forensics psychiatrist at trial can absolutely
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: make somebody walk in front of a jury. And I'll
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: tell you how I know that, Dr Bober. One of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: my very first jury trials, not the very first, which
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was a shoplifting which I desperately eked, had an attempted
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: shoplifting conviction. Um, was a bank robbery and I was
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: so happy Dr Bober because um, I thought, Wow, the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: fads usually take bank robberies, you know, because of the
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: f D. I c well, I know why they didn't
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  Speaker 1: want it. It was very difficult to prove well. In
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  Speaker 1: the end, they didn't even have surveillance video. They were
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: still Dr Bober and the guy was wearing a fake mustache,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: fake beard, fake wig, fake outfit which he ripped off
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  Speaker 1: in the alley. Hat, everything, sunglasses. You could see nothing,
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  Speaker 1: and um, this is what I had. He walked like
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  Speaker 1: a duck. He was slew footed is one foot was
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  Speaker 1: nine thirty and the other foot was three o'clock. With
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  Speaker 1: every step. Let me tell you something, Dr Bober, when
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: he got up in front of that jury to walk
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  Speaker 1: out of the courtroom, every or twenty four eyeballs hanging
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: over the jury rail watching him walk, and sure enough,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: quack quack, he walked like a duck. So I don't
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: know how I managed to forget that, Dr Bober. But
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  Speaker 1: gate can matter, and it can be demonstrated in front
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  Speaker 1: of a jury. All right. The constitution protects you from
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: having to speak, but the law can force you to
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: give a blood sample, a DNA sample, a bugle swab,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a voice test, a line up, a handwriting analysis and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a gate analysis. So Dr Daniel Bober, aside from my
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: bank robber whops was convicted um walking like a duck?
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  Speaker 1: What is going through this guy's mind right now? On
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Dr Bober? He's out smarting me, all of us on
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the panel today here on serious sex and one two,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: he's out smarting the cops everybody. What's going through his head? Bober? Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: No one would consider you a quack for considering a
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  Speaker 1: gait as an identify. But it's probably not a science
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  Speaker 1: any more valid than say handwriting analysis, which is probably
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: weaker of the forensic sciences. But I think in this
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: particular case, the police either don't have much more than that,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: or they're just keeping their cards very close to their
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: vest because besides the bus line, uh, there doesn't seem
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to be much to connect these victims together, and it
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they have much where they're just trying
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to protect the integrity of the investigation. Okay, number one,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that's not what I asked you, But I'm used to
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: men trying to dodge questions, so I'm gonna ask you again.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I do think they've got more they think the person
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: lives or freak lives in our frequency area. I think
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: when it's all said and done, we're gonna have ballistic matches.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Although I'm curious that they don't have a match on
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: victims two and three. So if they're saying, yeah, this
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: is a suspect and four and it's the same suspect,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: what is he using different? AMMO is that it does
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: that mean he's got access to more than one gun?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: But Dr Bober, my question, do you you're the shrink? Okay,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is a death investigator. Okay, Merita Cecilo
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: as a reporter, I'm a trial lawyer. You're the psychiatrist.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And let me remind everybody, a psychiatrist is somebody that
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: went and got their medical degree. I mean, he could
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: perform surgery on me right now. Uh, but then they
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: go on and get an additional specialty in psychiatry. So
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: what I'm asking you, again, Dr Bober, your honor, please
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: direct the witness to be responsive to the question. It's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: what's going through this guy's mind. It's hard to know
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: why he's choosing these victims. Obviously, in a lot of
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: these cases, the assailant gets some kind of sense of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: power and control. Maybe he feels marginalized, maybe he has
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: been wrong in some way and he's striking out at society.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: But it's very hard to know that. You can only
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: look at common, more generic patterns, and it's difficult to tell. Hey,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Dr Bibera, are you telling me he hasn't claimed four
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: lives and he's not sitting back getting a kick out
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of fact. We're trying to figure out who he is
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and planning his next victim and knowing inside I'll ufed up.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I've got control over all these people. I can kill
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: whenever I want to, when they're not gonna catch me.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Look at me out smarting all of them are do
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I have to Q and A with myself, Dr bober Nancy,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. I think that he does
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: receive a lot of sick power and gratification from it,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and he probably is watching the news media and maybe
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: even listening to your show, uh, looking for some kind
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of um, you know, pleasure from it. Okay, if you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: are listening, you're gonna get caught, and when you do,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get the death penalty. And in Florida, they
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: don't play, they don't play. I want to go back
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to our reporter joining us on the same meridis Inceulo
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: with w f L A Meredith. Police in Tampa are
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: begging for more help from the public. Uh. And and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: they're asking for simple things like turning on your lights
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: from six pm to six am. Why why do they
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: want that? Meredithin Culo. Yeah, that's right. That that's something
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that they've been telling the community since day one. They're
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: re reiterating that now that now since we have this
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: as fourth murder. And one thing that I think could
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: be interesting, as they are relying heavily on surveillance video.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: A lot of people in this neighborhood have home survivalance cameras,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: and I wonder if having the lights on outside that's
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: going to help with the quality of capturing these images
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: could be very useful. Also, perhaps this person, you know,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: we know that he likes to commit these crimes at night.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Having as much light as possible could be a great deterrent,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: uh to to stop these Although I will point out
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that the fourth murder occurred in the middle of a street.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: It's a well lit street, it's a major thoroughfare. It
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: parallels one of our major interstates that cuts right through Tampa.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So that fourth murder was in a location that was
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: well lit. However, to get to that location, this person
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: had walk down very dark streets, So lighting up the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: streets could play a major role in either deterring this
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: person or if he does strike again, maybe we get
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: better quality images. Both of the surveillance videos that we have,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: unfortunately are very low quality. Some of them were shot
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: from quite a distance away, and as you know, if
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you are trying to zoom in to get a better
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: image from those cameras, you're still going to have a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: very poor quality. So any images that we can gather
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: that are going to continue to hone in on that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: description are going to be helpful with me on the scene, Meredith,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Sincelo from w f l A said, Meredith, let me
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: ask you another question. What other strategies are being taken
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: by police and trying to catch this guy on surveillance
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: which you and I talked about, uh, immediately following the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: fourth shooting, in the hours in fact, you were still
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: on the same Meredith, because I am saying everyone should
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: get the surveillance video home business, you name it, to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: see catch where this guy is running to to try
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to get a directional on where he lives. But what
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: other strategies are police taking meritus? Since you well, they
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: have increased the reward. It is now over ninety dollars.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Previously it stood around forty dollars. So they've added on
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: another fifty thousand dollars hoping that that will encourage anyone
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: with information to come forward that may lead to and
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: arrest in this case. So they feel that let's try
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: to INCENTIFYZ incentivize this. They that they by Tampa Police
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: FBI A t F. They truly believe that this is
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: someone who lives in this community. Somebody must know something
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that their their belief and I believe that too. This
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: is a small neighborhood within the Tampa Bay area. They
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: believe that this person is well known. Uh and and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: they're hoping, Okay, maybe if we increase this reward, we're
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: just a nine dollars now, maybe that will make the difference.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: We also have companies donating a space on electronic message
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: boards to keep sharing that information, sharing the tip line
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: number UM the anonymous tip number that people can reach
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: out to them. And that's the other thing they're reiterating.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: You don't have to tell us who you are. Call
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: in with your tips. After the fourth murder of Ronald Felton.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: That day, four hundred and fifty new tips came in.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So these incentives continuing to share the story, it is
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: providing leads, but unfortunately it is not solved this case
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: just yet. Can you imagine the fear of knowing that
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: when you walk outside in the Tampa area, you're taking
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: your life in your own hands. I remember distinctly going
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to d C on a daily basis. I would get
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: off for at Court TV and fly to DC every
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: day to do the Larry King Show. And I did
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: that for months. Um, do this show, spend the night
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: in DC, get up at four thirty the next morning,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and take a flight back to New York two do
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Court TV. And it was in the middle of the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: d C sniper tragedy. And I remember getting off the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: plane and going out to Hellicab and just standing there
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: out in the open, thinking, is it gonna be me? Um?
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: And that's what it wasn't just me, it was everybody
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in DC felt the same way. That's what's happening in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Tampa right now. I want you to take a listen.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Let's go straight to the police presser. Let's go Jackie.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: If you recall this was the video. Noticed the the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: hoodie or rain jackets, noticed the gate and how they're walking,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the phone flip and how they're nonchalantly just walking. Appears
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to be looking at his phone. It appears to be
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a light color jacket. I think that's very misleading. You
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: see it here. It now looks a little bit of
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a color structor color jacket. Same individual. We originally called
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: him someone we wanted to talk to. It went to
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a person of interest. Today we're gonna call the same
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: individual a suspect. And you're gonna see why. In just
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: a moment yesterday morning, November, moments before the homicide, same gate,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: same walk, Maybe not the same jacket, definitely a hoodie.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I repeat, we are now calling this person a suspect,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and we need to know who this person is. We
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: need someone who is thoughtful, cares and has the heart
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and the fortitude and the bravery to step forward and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: tell us who this person is and give us the identity.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I don't need speculation, we don't need profiles. We need names.
• 18:57
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  Speaker 1: Did you know that for every one ounce of golden ground,
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• 21:41
  Speaker 1: A grown daughter, now twenty four years old, murders her mother,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: but now she says I don't deserve this much jail time. Yeah,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I killed my mom, but I don't deserve this. What
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: you murder your mom and you climb, you don't deserve
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: so much jail time. We'll take a listen to what
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: this daughter, Gypsy Blanchard, age twenty four, reveals in a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: prison interview. Should you be in this prison? To be honest,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I have complicated feelings about that. I believe firmly that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: no matter what, murder is not okay. But at the
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: same time, I don't believe I deserve as many years
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: as I got what Your mother is dead and she
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: was murdered, and you were involved, I was what would
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: be a just punishment. I'm not really certain on that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I do believe that I do deserve to spend some
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: time in prison for that crime, but also I understand
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: why it happened, and I don't believe that I'm in
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the right place to get the help that I need.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Are you glad your mother's did No, sir, I'm glad
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that I'm out of the situation, but I'm not acious
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that that's right. You heard it yourself there she is
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: talking about how she doesn't deserve this. It's a Missouri
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: woman who kills her mother. But that's not the entire story.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Out to John Limley, Crime Stories and crime Online, investigate
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: every reporter, John Limley, what's the rest of the story,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: How this whole thing go down? Nancy, the sheriff in
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Greene County, Wisconsin, where Gypsy Rose Blanchard was found after
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: her mom's murder, probably some this story up perfectly when
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he said things are not always as they appear. Now
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: here's the picture of what was in most minds who
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: knew of Gypsy and her mother, Claudine or d D. Blanchard,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a loving, middle aged mom caring for her young daughter,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: a little girl that suffered from a number of ailments
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: including muscular dystrophy, epilepsy, sleep apnea, leukemia, and severe asthma.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Over the years, Gypsy and Deed had become really the
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: poster child in mother for so many individuals and organizations,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: people that helped with fundraisers. The two benefited from the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: efforts of Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, and even
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the Make a Wish Foundation. Those around them had only
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: known Gypsy Rose as a sweet, smiling child in a wheelchair,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: her mother d D as the most caring and devoted
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: of mothers. So folks watching in the courtroom or on
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: TV as Gypsy Rose walked into a courtroom to answer
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: charges related to her mother's death could not have been
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: any more shocked. Here Gypsy Rose was not only accused
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: in taking part in her mother's murder, but she could walk.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Oh and she was not a little girl but a
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: woman in her early twenties. Okay, you're messing with my mind,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: John Lamley, investigative reporter. Okay, wait, she's supposed to be
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: a little girl sick with leukemia and muscular distrophe and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: all sorts of ailments. What do you mean I'm looking
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: at her. She's actually beautiful with long brunette hay error,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: kind of in a shag cut. She's um, she's the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: perfect weight, she's got a makeup. What happens? So you
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: just have to look at pictures posted, say even a
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: few years before this, where you see a girl with
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: a completely bald head, uh, sitting in a wheelchair, usually
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: her mother by her side, at some fundraiser or some sort. Now,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: what has emerged is a long story of abuse at
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the hand of that mother who had who is people
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: have surmise had Munchausen by proxy syndrome in which a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: parent or caregiver. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: so messing with my hand, because I'm looking in the
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: picture of Gypsy. This is the little girl that I
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: now know is a twenty four year old woman. And
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you're right. She's bald, she looks very ill, she's very pale.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: She she looks like she's missing some teeth. Possibly. She's
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: hugging on her mom and they're holding a little Chihahwa dog.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: The mom is smiling, she's smiling him. It looks like
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: they're putting on a brave front. She looks like she's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: about twelve years old in this picture. Absolutely, well, that's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a big fat lie. So what was really happening? John
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Limley Well of d D not only told others and
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: eventually convinced even Gypsy that she had all of these illnesses,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: She made them reality whenever possible by finding chemicals medications
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: that would cause the appropriate symptoms. She even fooled a
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: majority of the girl's doctors over times. Another of d
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: d's deceptions concerns her age, which we've been talking about.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Gypsy Rose's mother had even convinced the girl and confused
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: her as to her real age, also making her out
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to be younger than she was. As Gypsy Rose got older,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: her mom would still contend that she had the brain
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: of a seven year old. Doctors were so convinced of
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Gypsy's ailments that she underwent countless procedures, even having her
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: saliva gland is removed so she would stop drooling, and
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: installing a feeding tube, something that was in place for
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: quite some Putting a feeding tube into your child's body
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: having them operated on. I mean this mother d d
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: her her hoax, even fooled doctors who put the little
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: child on all sorts of prescriptions. They performed surgeries on
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the little girl Gypsy. The mother accepted financial donations, went
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: on charity funded trips to places like Disney World. She
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: had Munchausen by proxy, and she went to such great
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: extent to get attention to herself via her child. She
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: even let the child undergo surgery, convincing this child she
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: was truly ill, making the child all sorts of horrible
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: sentence like vomiting in pain. To Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: you have studied this case very carefully. The girl finally
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: killed her mother. Dr Bobera explained to me much Hausen
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: by proxy, Nancy Munchausen by proxy. The more formal name
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is factitious disword imposed on another and it's a condition.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Where As the reporter said, uh, the caregiver, usually the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: mother will make the child sick, either inducing seizures, poisoning them,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: causing them to bleed, in order to get attention. These
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: are people who are essentially addicted to the attention that
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: they get from doctors. They very often have a history
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: of their own trauma and some sort of personality disorder,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: usually narcissism or perhaps borderline personality diswitter. But in this
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: particular case, you know, the victim and I use the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: victim in quotes, was both of these people. I mean,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the mother obviously should not have been murdered, but there's
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: obviously mitigating circumstances in that this child was undergoing traumatic
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: abuse for years by her mother, inducing her to be ill.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And looking at a picture of the little child, well,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I guess she's a little child, and she is in
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: the hospital bed it looks like an a vent later
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: with like she's just had surgery. She's I'm just sick
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: about it, and this child went through this for all
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: these years to Joseph's got Morgan death investigator, what can
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you tell me about the murder of this evil mother?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: She's evil, she is evil. The murder itself is rather gruesome,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: very up close and personal case, Nancy. This Uh, this
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: woman was stabbed death, found, as the police described it,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: in a pool of her own blood many times. As
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: you well know, the cases we've discussed, stabbing events, uh
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: turn out to be very very horrific, and they are
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: up close and personal. The individual has to be face
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to face with them or immediately adjacent to their back
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: when this is occurring. But if I could add one
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: thing here, Nancy uh talking, you know, Dr bober Had
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: was given this description of of munch House and I've
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: worked munch House in cases, and what makes this case
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: so particularly bizarre for me, um is had. Most of
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the time, when you're talking about munch housings, the victims
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: tend to be the children, which makes this in my case,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: at least where where I've worked mothers that are attempting
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to get sympathy from others, they will kill their own
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: children and bring them to the point of illness and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: kill them. I don't recall in my memory of all
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: of my years of working a case. Uh that is
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: so polar opposite of that. And I could see how this,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: how this young girl would have generated quite a bit
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: of anger. We're talking about feeding tubes being inserted. Uh,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: this is horribly uncomfortable, traumatic, and Lord only knows what
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: else this woman was doing to this child to keep
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: her in this asymmetrical relationship that she had with her,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: beating her down all the time, even metaphorically, um convincing
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: her that she is unhealthy, when all the while, you
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: know this child has got a mind, and she's saying,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not these things or something inside, I'm not these things,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: but I have to convince she's always putting on an act.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And so this makes this case for me. I think
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that this is actually a case that people, particularly in
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Dr Bobersfield, will study for years and years to come,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: because it is certainly a typical. And when the girl
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Gypsy is asked, is she glad her mother's dead, the
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: girl says, no, sir, I'm glad I'm out of that situation,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but I'm not happy she's dead. Now, she enlisted the
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: help of her boyfriend, Nicholas Goutt John, two days after
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Claudine's body was found, walked into her first court appearance
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: on her own two feet, much to the shock of
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: everyone who thought this was a wheelchair abound little girl
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: suffering from leukemia and muscular distrophe. Now Here, here's the deal.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: They lived in a home built by Habitat and Humanity
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: d D. Claudine full time care keep taker for Gypsy,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: claiming all these chromosotal defects, epilepsies, sleep at nea, leukemia, asthma,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: muscular dystrophy, even feeling doctors. But according to the little
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: girl's attorney, he says the mom even barred Gypsy from
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: attending school after kindergarten. Her mother would not allow her
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: to spend any time with any other human being. And
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: when they went to the doctor, the mom did all
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the talking. You know, when I take the children to
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the doctor. They asked me a few things, but then
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: they speak to the children and asked the children questions
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: as they should. And I just sit there and listen.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear one more time this statement
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: from what I call the little girl. She's now a
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: grown woman. Should you be in this prison? To be honest,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I have complicated feel about that. I believe firmly that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: no matter what, murder is not okay. But at the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: same time, I don't believe I deserve as many years
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: as I got what your mother is dead, she is
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and she was murdered, and you were involved. I was
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: what would be a just punishment. I'm not really certain
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: on that. I do believe that I do deserve to
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: spend some time in prison for that crime, but also
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I understand why it happened, and I don't believe that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I'm in the right place to get the help that
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I need. Are you glad your mother's did No, sir,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that I'm out of that situation, But I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: am not. How ISSUES said there, you were hearing this
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: little girl. I keep calling her that, but she's now
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: twenty four years old. You know what I've got to say,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bayber right or wrong? UM, I understand what
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the girl felt. I mean, she meets this guy on
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Christian dating website. They start talking that he discovers she's well.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: She starts outlining what has been done to her over
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: so many years. I mean, I don't to me, it's
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: merely justifiable homicide. It's almost an act of self defense,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Dr Bober. I mean if I were sitting on a
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: jury and I knew what this mother had done to
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: this child, I have a hard time convicting her. Dr Bober, Yeah,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. And um, it's interesting that only
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: about fifty of these cases is actually present to psychiatrists.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Most of the people that see them are the pediatrician,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of telltale signs, for example, the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: parent not wanting to leave the child alone with the doctor,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and there are cases where the pediatrician will actually work
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: with police or hospital security to covertly film the interactions
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: between the parent and the child to try to get
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: some clues as to what's going on. But it does
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: require a very astute condition to figure it out, and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: very often these cases slipped through the crash. So let
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: me go back to you, John Limley, Crime Stories and
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: climb online dot Com investigative reporter. She got ten years right,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and what was this? Was it on murder? Was it on?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Was it on second degree? I she'll probably be up
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: for parole and probably seven years. I'll tell you what
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: did This whole story is a tragedy, you know, and
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: when you put it to a judge. It reminds me
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of Um Solomon, who said, I'll just split the baby
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and each one of you can have half the baby,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: so nobody would be happy that That's the story of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: King Solomon, and just sometimes there is no good answer.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: That's what I had to learn in the courtroom. There's
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: never a real winner at the end of the day.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Even if you win your case and you since the
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: bad guy to jail, everybody leaves with a broken heart.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: We're on the case of Gypsy, you know what. We're
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: heading straight into the holidays, and that makes me realize
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: how much I have to be thankful for. But you
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: know what, I'm not leaving fat Boy, my little mutt
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: in Cinneama Girl, my cat out of the fun. I
• 36:18
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• 36:40
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  Speaker 1: Nitro Happy and healthy and thank you for being our partner.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: And now we had across the country to the very
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: latest in the pen State hazing death to Alan Duke
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: joining me today, Alan, I, how could this story get
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: any worse than a young kid, an athlete, straight, a student,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: his parents finally get him to college. He goes to
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: this fraternity party and he ends up commatos. I believe
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: he had uh shredded spleen and so many other injuries.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And he liked lay there in the floor for about
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen hours while everybody actually walked around him
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and stepped over him. They slapped him, they beat him,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: they moved him around. He was um vomiting. He tried
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to get to the door. They wouldn't let him leave.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: He died, and then they had to cover up. Alan
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: did what could possibly be worse. It's a parent's worst nightmare.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: You you send your kid to college, you raise them,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you spend money to put him in there and get
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: him to that point. And of course they're going to
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: join a fraternity. I mean, you did it. I didn't
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: do it. I was in the military, so that was different.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: But you put them into this situation where they're out
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: on their own. He was nineteen years old, he was
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a football player. He was big, strapping young man, and
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you would think that he could handle himself, but the
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: peer pressure. The new information that we are now learning
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: in this case is that over an eighty two minute period,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that's less than an hour and a half, they coerced
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: this young man I'm talking about his the frat members
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: allegedly because coerced him to take eighteen alcoholic drinks in
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half. And that is what they say.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: A new charges have just been filed in the horrific
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: death of a Penn State University student. Video from a
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: base from a basement security camera has just been recovered
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: by law enforcement. Now this is what we know. The
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: fraternity brothers lad police to believe the basement cameras were
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: not working that night, on the bid acceptance night. I mean,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Alan's right. When I first went away to school, I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: was seventeen. My parents dropped me off and left and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I did not know a single soul. I ran into
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: another girl from my hometown, Macon, Georgia. She was in
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: a sorority. She said, come over to our party. I'm like, okay,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and I went and I joined Alpha Delta Pie and
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I made friends there. And let me tell you something.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: They gave me a bouquet of violence. I mean a
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: pot of plant of violets and cupcakes and little presence
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and which seemed to you and that that's what that
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: was like. And I made friends. Then I transferred to
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Mercia University. My fiancee was murder and I fell out
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: of everything, including sorority and school and everything. At the
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: very end, when I went back to school my senior year,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I was working alone in the back of the library,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: all by myself, processing books, and a girl came in.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: She came back to drop some books off. She also
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: worked there. She said, hey, aren't you an ad pie. Okay, now,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: almost three years had passed since I had anything to
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: do with the sorority, and I was getting over, well
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: like getting over. I was living through Keith's murder. And
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I went yeah. She said me too, Come tonight and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: come out and be with us. And at first I
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: said no because I just couldn't even stand to be
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: around people, but she kept asking me. Her name was Carol,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and you know what, I went and they were the
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: nicest group of girls, so I had life both ways
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: in college, and I'm thinking about this kid, this teen boy,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: who hooks up with some guys and they seemed to
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: be nice guys, and he goes to the bid party
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and he ends up dead. And its so called brothers
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: lie to police to say that basement camera wasn't working.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: But guess what it was. It had been manually deleted
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: on purpose, just as the cops were about to seize
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the recording equipment to allend. What more do we know, Well,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: we know this because the prosecutor, Stacy Parks Miller announced
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: this week that they're leveling charges against ten more students
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: that had not been charged, bringing the number to about
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: two dozen who faced various charges, including manslaughter. Because this
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: video was recovered by the FBI. You delete it, but
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it's still on the hard drive and these technicians with
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: the FBI can find it, and in this case, they
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: were able to restore it. The investigators were able to
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: see exactly what happened. And now the new indictments announced
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: by the prosecutor. You know, it's it's just overwhelming, overwhelming
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to me what happened and the level of deceit and
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: deception to Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, that these guys
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: went through as part of the cover up to cover
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: up what they did. Nancy, it seems like you had
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: a pretty positive experience when you were in a sorority.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: But a lot of what happens in these types of
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: cases where there's either a sexual assault or death is
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: a mob mentality takes over and people are afraid to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: speak up because they're going to be uh, you know,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: criticized by their peers. But I completely agree with you
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that this is just an egregious chain of events and
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: someone really should have stepped it in essentially stopped this
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: kid from being poisoned in front of everyone. Jess Goott,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: death investigator. Why Anne, about what this boy, Timothy Piazza
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: went through. Yeah, let me let me kind of run
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: this down to you. This laundry list of these things
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: that this poor kid went through. He's got a ruptured spleen,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: he's gota collapsed along, so more than likely he's also
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: got fractured rips and Nancy, these are the types of
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: injuries that we see. These are blunt force trauma. This
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: is what we what we commonly see in motor vehicle
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: accidents that occur at a very high speed where these
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: types of things happen. So with ruptured spleen, what happens
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: is you begin to bleed out into your dominant area.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a slow death that it has to
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: be taken care of by a surgeon. This kid wouldn't
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: get any help. And then, to make matters worse, he's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: suffering from what's referred to as acute alcohol toxicity or
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: what is commonly referred to as alcohol poisoning. When his
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: alcohol level gets to this point and we're thinking probably
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: about poor uh point four oh. At that point, you're
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: at a lethal level where it's noncompatible with life. He's
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: unable to even form words. It goes to a very
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: primal thing where you're just trying to survive there, you know.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: And plus you've got these people beating on you to
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: keep him away from the doors so he can and escape.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Dr Bober made a good point. It's almost like he's
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: in amongst a pack of wolves at this point in
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: top and they're just kind of circling him. They're probably
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: laughing at him periodically. You know. I heard one person
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: mentioned that they would either walk by and kick him
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: or slap him. And that's what's going on here. He's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: probably repeated, repeatedly kicked multiple times and the abdomen and
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the ribs, and this is a horrible, horrible way to die.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a parent, I know, I know, Nancy, you are too,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: and it's it's one of these things where your heart
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: just absolutely breaks. And listen to what the prosecutor says.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: The Commonwealth is prepared today to announce new charges and
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: these charges are a direct result of new evidence in
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: this case. For those of you that are familiar with
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the situation and the death of Tempiazza Um, we have
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: new evidence and that evidence is if you have been
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: following it Um. The State College Police Department was indeed
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: able to recover the basement video in this case, and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: as a result of the conduct on that video, we
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: are today announcing the filing of new charges from brothers
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: from this fraternity. These charges raine range from manslaughter to hazing,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and also charges for the actual affirmative deliberate deletion of
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: that video, which obviously pertained to UM capturing criminal conduct.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: We'd like to thank the District Attorney and the State
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: College Police for their continued commitment and efforts and finding
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: justice for us Tim's death. Tim wasn't happy and caring
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: human being in a wonderful son who just wanted to
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: join an organization to find friendships and camaraderie. Instead, he
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: was killed at the hands of those he was seeking
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: friendship from. We have spent the past eight months wondering
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: how can this happen on the campus of Penn State.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: The visions of him lying in the hospital bed, battered
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: and bruised and on life support, looking as if he
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: got hit by a tractor trailer make no sense. He
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: was just trying to join an organization. Over the last
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: several months, we listened to defense arguments centered around victim blaming,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: or how could the defendants have known they were putting
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: someone seriously seriously at risk since no one died before,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: as if they were entitled to one free death, or
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the catch all argument of we don't know. They claimed,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: we don't know what else happened other than what was
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: seen in the upstairs video, and we don't know what
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: happened in the basement. Guess what, guys, now, we know
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: we're making holiday plans without our sun Tim, because of
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: your actions. If you did not commit the acts you did,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: we would not be here today, and would we be.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: We would be anxiously awaiting Tim's return home for Thanksgiving.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Break on Friday, the Penn State hazing death of this
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: young guy, Timothy Piazza. It's not over yet. Nancy Grace
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: crimed the story, sidling off Goodbye friend,