Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 159. Canceled In The IFB - Olivia Harding (We Are One Podcast)

Transcript

159. Canceled In The IFB - Olivia Harding (We Are One Podcast) · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:10
I found my freedom in you. I found a toy I can't lose and
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thank God it's. True, you wrapped your arms
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around me and heaven broke through from the moment she
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found me, I found. On my.
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Freedom. Welcome to the Four Freedom
0:34
Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the
0:37
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
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everyday issues. Now here are your host, James
0:44
Safer and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the for free to
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podcast. What a great day it is today to
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be serving the Lord. What a great day it is to be in
0:55
front of the microphone today. We are excited what the Lord is
0:58
doing and always grateful for you as listeners to be a part of
1:03
the episode today. We are excited about what we've
1:05
got coming up today, a great interview that we have lined up
1:10
and we hope it'll be a blessing to you.
1:12
But we are enjoying this talk through the world culture, some
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some topics that don't always get talked about and definitely
1:21
haven't been talked about a lot in our realm, but we are excited
1:24
about talking through them. Before we get started with that,
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Brett, how are you doing? How are things going on your
1:30
side of the world? Man, things are going over here
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in my church, things are going over here in my life.
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Just busy, busy time of life and we're doing things in church and
1:41
we're just excited to be here. We've got 7° weather right now,
1:46
but I just heard last night that we got 30° coming next week.
1:51
I'm not looking forward to that. I'm ready for the cold weather
1:54
to be over with. I'm just the older I get the
1:57
more I'm just done with it and it's hitting wave after wave of
2:00
cold weather. It's just not my thing.
2:02
I feel like an old man and I'm ready for it just to be spring
2:07
and get done with. We had our council meeting last
2:09
night. We've got Easter as far as
2:12
church goes, we've got Easter coming up.
2:14
I've got a lot of things planned for this Easter for us.
2:18
We're going to do mailers and door hangers.
2:21
We're going to have a Facebook ad.
2:22
We're going to give out handheld invitations.
2:25
We're going to try to play with the times and, and see if we
2:28
can, if we get more people, if we bump it up an hour.
2:32
And so we're just going to kind of play with that a little bit.
2:34
But just a great time to be in church.
2:37
Great day, great time to be a the child of God, to be in the
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ministry and couldn't be happier.
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I love it. Yeah, we are.
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We just had our our beginning meeting on that same thing and
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talking through, we do a big sunrise service outside in the
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graveyard and that's part of this year with Easter bin later
2:57
that puts the later in the year that puts the sunrise earlier in
3:01
the day, earlier in the morning. And so we had to talk through
3:04
those things. But yeah, we're excited by that
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man. We're, we, we are, we're
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recording this the week before, but we had a huge Super Bowl
3:13
party and we had like 30 or 40 people from the church come over
3:17
for the Super Bowl. Brett, at the time of recording,
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we don't know what has happened to the Super Bowl.
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Do you want to give your predictions this today of who do
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you think? And then at the time of the
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recording, when it comes out, we can see who's right and who's
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wrong. What are your thoughts on that?
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I think the winner of the Super Bowl is going to be Taylor
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Swift. Amen.
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But I do think the Chiefs are going to the Chiefs, they're
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going to. Is it a three peat if they win?
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I think it's a 3 peat. If they win first time, they're
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not the first team to do a three peat, but the first team to do a
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Super Bowl 3 peat. The Green Bay Pack were the the
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1st to do it and they did it twice back in the 20s and then
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the the 1st 2 Super Bowls Green Bay won but they won the NFL
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championship before that which before it was a Super Bowl so
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they won three in a row. What's the what's the What's the
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coach of the Chiefs name? Andy Reid, baby.
4:13
So they asked him, what's your favorite trilogy, like movie
4:17
trilogy? And his answer was, oh, well,
4:19
let's see the the Holy Bible. And I was like, man, yeah,
4:23
that's good. And then he said the Book of
4:25
Mormon and the Pearl, the great price.
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And I was like, Oh no. Yeah, well, he said Trilogy.
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I figured that was coming. I, I'm going to Eagles, man.
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I, I'm putting all my, my bet on the Eagles.
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Several people have asked me, I think that Jalen Hurts is, is
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doing much better as a quarterback.
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I think Saquon Barkley is doing great.
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They gave him the MVP. I believe they, that he, he got
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the MVP. Saquon Barkley did.
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I just, I think the Chiefs are the, the Chiefs are not clicking
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the way they need to right now and the Eagles are peaking where
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they need to be peeking. And so I, I think that's where
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I'm going to go. We'll find out Sunday and we'll
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we'll have a great time. We've got a lot of people, like
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I said, our whole small group, Sunday school, all the kids,
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they're planning to be at a house.
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And so we we're going to have a house full man.
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It's going to be awesome. Just I mean really about half
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the church is going to be at our house and we can't wait.
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It's going to be a great time. We love entertaining.
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We love hanging out. We love doing that.
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Brett, we've got a great thing going on right now with our
5:26
cigar company. We'd love for you guys.
5:29
If you are one of those listeners that enjoy that, we
5:32
would love for you to share that information.
5:34
It's on our website. It's on our Facebook page.
5:38
You can see a link there to that link to be able to get some of
5:42
those very affordable when it comes to cigars.
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And that's a great way to show an appreciation to us and also
5:49
to help some guy out that that needs some.
5:52
Maybe it's a female as well. I know some female cigar smokers
5:55
as well. And so this is an awesome
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opportunity that we've got. It's open some doors for us to
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have some creative conversations and we'll be continuing to talk
6:05
through that as our line just continues to explore.
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And Brett, what else we have going on?
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I want to make a plea to everybody right now, please
6:15
start saving your money now. Do it now.
6:18
Start putting away, get a coffee can, start putting some money in
6:23
it. Because beginning of next year
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we're going back to Israel. Now we have a tentative date,
6:29
but we don't want to say that date yet until we nail it down,
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but it's going to be anywhere from January to March, beginning
6:38
of 2026. Start saving now.
6:43
It's safe. Their tours over there right
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now. Our buddy Marcus Merritt is
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going there next month with 30 people.
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Brian and the Hope Church, They're taking a group over
6:55
there in September and it it's going to be a great trip.
6:59
It's going to be a great time. So start saving now.
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Put back and come to Israel with us.
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I'm telling you, it's safe. And the next four years are
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going to be the safest time to go to Israel that they'll be in
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your entire life, I promise you. Absolutely, man, I can't wait.
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It's going to be great. We said this last time and I'm
7:20
getting all those videos, all those memories that pop up from
7:24
Israel. And if you see this right up
7:26
here behind me, this black box is my shadow box of the Israel
7:30
rocks that I got while I was there.
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Managed a blessing to be able to think back through that and
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think, I mean, it doesn't. There's not a day that goes by
7:37
that I don't remember something that happened, something that
7:41
was mentioned. It may be something in the news
7:44
where they mention a location. I'm like, man, I was there, I
7:46
remember being there, I remember stepping foot there.
7:49
And what an awesome time it's going to be.
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We hope you go with us. And if you have any, if you have
7:56
any questions about that, reach out to us.
7:58
The information about the trip, the dates aren't on there, but
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the trip itself is on our website for freedompodcast.com
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and we'd love you to go and check that out.
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And Brett, without further ado, let's jump into this episode
8:10
today, this interview that we've got going on.
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It'd be a great time and I hope you enjoy it.
8:27
We cannot truly worship God while we stay silent on
8:30
injustice in all kinds of areas. And I know as a white pastor I
8:34
have blind spots, so I am part of the problem.
8:40
James. Paul elected to unhitch the
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Christian. Faith.
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From there, Jewish. Scriptures.
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And my friends. We must as well.
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White people fear black men. That's not fair.
9:00
But it's true. Jesus repents of his racism and
9:05
extends healing to this woman's daughter.
9:08
I love this story because it's a reminder that Jesus is human.
9:10
He had prejudices and bias and when confronted with it he was
9:14
willing to do his work. I believe in the non binary God
9:21
whose pronouns are plural. I believe in Jesus Christ, their
9:26
child, who wore a fabulous tunic and had two dads and saw
9:32
everyone as a sibling child of God.
9:36
I believe in the rainbow spirit who shatters our image of 1
9:41
white light and refracts it into a rainbow of gorgeous diversity.
9:47
I believe in the Church of everyday Saints as numerous,
9:51
creative and resilient as catches on the 8th quilt, whose
9:57
feet are grounded in mud and whose eyes gaze at the stars and
10:02
wonder. I believe in the calling to each
10:05
of us that love is love is love. So beloved, let us love.
10:12
I believe glorious God help my unbelief.
10:17
Amen. This woke self loathing.
10:27
And we will never let the woke left take it away.
10:31
It's because they're putting woke ideology.
10:33
To a woke. Mob that can't even tell you
10:36
what a woman is. In this season of the Four
10:46
Freedom Podcast, we want to bring to you some enlightening
10:48
topics that deal with the wokeness of the church.
10:52
We want to bring to light some issues, they're often
10:55
overlooked, and we hope that it will be a blessing to you in
10:59
your listening experience. Hey, hi.
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Hi, everybody. OK.
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Welcome back to the For Freedom podcast again.
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We are excited about having a guest here with us today, Olivia
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Harding and she is with the We are one podcast.
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I had an awesome opportunity a couple but maybe last year to go
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on her podcast and share some things about what Lord will do
11:22
in our life. And then she asked for my wife
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to go on the podcast and share some first story.
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My wife was super nervous. She we're trying to get my wife
11:33
and Brett's wife to come on and do it a wives podcast episode.
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And she just doesn't like talking behind a microphone.
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She's a teacher for a living, but she just doesn't like doing
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that. And so, but we're excited about
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having Olivia here. Olivia, why don't you share sort
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of your church background, a little bit about your podcast,
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who you are, introduce yourself to the guest and we'll jump into
11:52
some questions here in just a minute.
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Yeah, so I'm Olivia. I am in from Indianapolis, IN.
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I was born and raised in the Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Church, or as most people know, the IFB.
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I was in it for about 20 years. I left right at the peak of
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COVID. And you know, growing up, I also
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am different from a lot of IFB people in a way because I went
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to public school. So I saw both the real world and
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also the fundamental world in a way.
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My parents got divorced my freshman year and my dad dealt
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with substance abuse from Andrina's back and I think that
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that kind of was like the tip of the iceberg with a lot of other
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things within my parents marriage.
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And so we got out of the church for a couple years cuz divorce
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is a big no no. And my mom didn't want to kind
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of be in that environment going through a divorce because she
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didn't know how they would react.
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My dad was like a trustee, but my mom never really got involved
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with the church as much just because she had his
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back-to-back. And she's like, my life was
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crazy with three. And so she wasn't the typical
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IFB woman so much. And and so we kind of were
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always like the black sheep family cuz my parents also were
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like, no, we're not gonna shelter our kids in some ways.
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But when I went to my friends and stuff like that, I had to
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listen to the IFP rules. No pants, culottes only, you
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know, Bible before bed, you know, all this stuff.
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And, and there's good aspects to some of it, but most of it is
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just I don't agree with. And so that was kind of like a
13:44
shock to me because I always felt like, wait, why don't we do
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this at home, you know, and you, you look at your parents and
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you're like, well, my parents do it, so they must be right,
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Right. So I'm like these people, I
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don't know what they're doing, you know, and I would always
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come back from like my friends and I'd be like, mom, I had to
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wear culottes. I had to change it to culottes
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before Deacon blah, blah, blah came over.
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And just like, yeah, that's just the rules, but.
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And I'm like, this is just so weird.
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So, and I'm open about it also on my podcast, my, you know,
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platform and stuff, but I went through a wild stage in a way of
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just rebellious teenage stuff. I did things that I had no
14:26
business doing at 14 and 15. But I just genuinely, I felt
14:30
like nobody was listening to me. Like my parents was getting
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divorced, no longer in church, everything was kind of just up
14:38
in the air. Didn't know what what was
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happening with my life and and being around I guess a worldly
14:45
influence and friends from school.
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I would go party and stuff and, and I look back now at my life,
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I'm 24 years old and I look back and I am thankful that I
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actually went through that because then I want to be where
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I am today. But I kind of also regret that I
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put my parents do a lot too because they were going through
15:06
their own stuff. They shouldn't have had to worry
15:09
about things that I put them through.
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But yeah. So I started We Are One podcast
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last year after watching the Lettuce Pray Ministry of
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Scandals documentary. When we got out during COVID, a
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lot of things transpired in my former church.
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My former pastor was on head of directors with the Circle of
15:30
Hope Girls Ranch. My parents donated money to the
15:34
ranch. We thought this was a good place
15:37
and to find out that it wasn't, and my former pastor never and
15:41
still has yet to ever come out and say that, you know, he
15:45
didn't agree with it or anything like that, really kind of put
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like a bad taste in our mouth in a way.
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But there was a lot of things that led up to the decision.
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And I think with having COVID, even though COVID was a hard
15:57
year, years for everyone, whether that you lost a loved
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one due to COVID or you just being isolated and mental health
16:03
sinking. It really was like a saving
16:07
point because I don't think like if COVID never happened, I, I
16:11
don't know where I would be. I would probably still be in I
16:14
feed away, maybe not so much, but I would still have probably
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a lot of the fundamental thinkings and theology because
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that's what you know. So I started the podcast after I
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watched the documentary, I just thought, OK, there is so many
16:29
people on this world that understand me.
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I thought I was alone. I thought I was crazy for
16:34
thinking certain things. Oh, wait, you know, when they
16:38
did the swallowing goldfish episode, I was like, Oh my gosh,
16:42
trauma unblocked, you know, type of thing.
16:46
And I was like, wait, there's people out here that are like,
16:49
that can relate, you know. And so after that, I, I would
16:54
say for about a week or so, I really felt like the Holy Spirit
16:59
really put on my heart to do something.
17:02
I didn't know what it was. And even though I love to yap,
17:07
as you can tell, I was like, I don't know what to do.
17:10
I don't want to be like this wannabe influencer trying to get
17:14
all these views. You know how people portray
17:16
that. So I was like, I'll do a
17:17
podcast. And I looked up, I taught myself
17:20
how to do a podcast from YouTube and stuff like that.
17:24
And when I released my episode, the nerves were, I mean, it's
17:28
intense when you're opening up and sharing things that you
17:31
thought probably would keep forever.
17:32
And you're like, hey, world, here you go.
17:34
Judge me, you know, it was very nerve wracking, but I feel like
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as time has gone on and we're now in season 2, the amount of
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growth also just in my spiritual walk and in everything like that
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has really helped me. I feel like the woman I am today
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is who I needed when I was younger.
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And if I can help someone, whether they're sixteen
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listening to the podcast or they're in a Bible college, or
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if they just got out of the IFB and they think that they've lost
18:04
it all, and whether they have lost it all, I want them to know
18:07
that there still is a God out there that truly do love you and
18:11
that you don't need the IFP. And it's actually far from what
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God's grace and love is. And so I, I want someone, if I
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can help one person out in this world, feel less alone than I
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feel like I'm doing God's calling.
18:26
Right, Brett, how many did you did you swallow in your day?
18:31
Mini I swallowed mini goldfish. I had a system.
18:34
You had to be sure that you swallowed it head down or it
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swim back up. I like to chase mine with a
18:41
Doctor Pepper. I had a guy on my bus route who
18:44
would chew it up. Put it on his tongue.
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Show all the bus kids and then swallow it.
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I was never that crazy. But you know, I will say that it
18:54
it is. There's something to this.
18:56
When you've been in the IFB and you tell somebody your story and
19:02
they can relate to it, it feels like you're not alone anymore.
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Like I can stand up as a pastor and I can preach and I can tell
19:10
these stories. And people that have never
19:12
experienced the IFB, they look at you like a calf looks at a
19:15
new gate wide eye. They have no idea that something
19:19
like this even exists. And so there is something
19:22
therapeutic. There's something beneficial to
19:25
being a part of a community, finding people you can confide
19:28
in, because when you're in the IFB, you do feel like you're on
19:31
an island. You do feel like you're
19:33
sequestered by yourself and nobody can relate to anything
19:37
that you're going through. And Olivia, I relate to your
19:40
story too, because as well, I grew up in a secular world too.
19:44
I was a bus kid. So while while my parents were,
19:49
you know, didn't go to the church, I did.
19:52
And so my city and I went, went to the Christian School at the
19:55
church. So my secular portion of my life
19:58
was with my family, with my cousins.
20:01
But then I went to school and, and, and attended the IFB
20:04
church. And so that's kind of that.
20:06
I'm similar to that story in your way.
20:09
And I know in my own personal experience, I've experienced
20:14
people being cancelled or shunned from the IFB because
20:18
they, they change certain things.
20:20
They did certain things. I know for me when I got out,
20:22
when I was getting out, I posted it and I, I version the NIV.
20:27
And it's like you to think that I just, you know, put a terror
20:31
threat on Facebook. And so a lot of my friends left
20:34
me, a lot of my people dumped me.
20:36
I've heard of stories of, of people, you know, they're,
20:40
they're preaching engagements get cancelled because, oh, you
20:43
wouldn't preach at so and so's church.
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I'm going to call and I'm going to get all these other churches
20:47
to cancel you. And so cancelling and shunning
20:50
is a tool that the, that the hardcore IFB uses.
20:54
And I just want to ask you, what areas in the IFB have you seen
20:59
people cancel though over? This is kind of goes with the
21:02
theme of our season. We're talking about cancel
21:06
culture in our regular season and we know that the IFP cancels
21:11
people and shuns people. So So what areas have you seen
21:14
people canceled over in the IFP? Yeah, I would say starters
21:19
definitely if you mention anything that is I guess asking
21:26
too many questions in a way, like if you go, I feel like if
21:29
you go up to IFB pastor and you're like, hey, you know, you
21:32
said this and it's not really making any sense and they don't
21:36
give you the answer. They just say, well, you need to
21:38
reread your scripture. Don't question the man of you
21:40
know, then you already have to like have like a target on your
21:43
back, like this person's asking too many questions.
21:46
So then they start isolating you in a way of don't hang around
21:50
this person because their theology, they're kind of
21:53
they're slipping away from God in that mindset.
21:56
And another one I think is also a dress code.
22:00
I definitely as a woman, if you weren't wearing a skirt or
22:03
something that was, you know, looked upon and well, we can't
22:07
hang out with you because you're not doing this, you're not doing
22:11
that, you're not going to, you know, you're telling me that you
22:14
don't wear a skirt every single day of your life, but then we're
22:17
not coming to your house type of thing.
22:20
I also think that people are getting cancelled over in the
22:23
ISB definitely with the scandals that you know, have definitely
22:27
came to paired within the past couple years, a lot of people
22:31
are questioning things and I think overall, once you question
22:35
and I be, you're immediately cancelled in a way.
22:38
And also I've seen this first hand, people who say, Hey, we're
22:43
moving. So we found this other great
22:46
independent fundamental Baptist Church thing.
22:49
We're going to start going there because, you know, distance and
22:51
whatever. And it's like immediately you're
22:52
out of God's will. Nope, this is my, you know, this
22:55
is the church. Like I think every IFB church
22:58
thinks that they're going to be the only ones in heaven, right?
23:01
Like they're the right and the truth and the way you know,
23:04
whatever and you get cancelled and it's like, wait, I'm still
23:08
going to an IFB church, but it's like, Nope, you're not going to
23:11
our church. And it's like that mindset of
23:14
like you might be saved, but you're really not that good of a
23:16
Christian because you're not going here.
23:19
So then you get cancelled in a way.
23:21
And I think that the IFB is huge on shunning.
23:25
I have experienced it myself. I have witnessed plenty of
23:30
people and talk to so many people around the world that
23:33
have experienced shunning. And I think that is probably the
23:36
number one most damaging thing is when someone either leaves
23:40
IFP or they question something and that's automatically you got
23:44
a target on your back. And a pastor said this,
23:49
actually, that's going to be up on our series or whatever.
23:53
He said it's what they do to cancel you is because they don't
23:58
have the right answer for you. So they have to diminish and
24:01
tear you down and ruin your character or whatever because
24:04
they can't let the truth be told.
24:07
So they will do anything they can to cancel you because they
24:11
know what you're saying is true or or they look at it as a
24:15
threatening way. So what do you do in in today's
24:18
world? I'm going to cancel someone.
24:20
I'm going to cancel you because it's easier to diminish feelings
24:24
and character than just say, you know what, that's the truth.
24:29
So I have seen it well over so many people and examples in IFB.
24:35
It's very rapid, rapidly, but the second you question you
24:39
already have a target on your back and it's because you're
24:42
questioning the man of God, the authority.
24:44
And it's it's very controlling and very narcissistic, if you
24:49
ask me. Yeah.
24:51
I think basically to sum up what you said was you can be
24:54
cancelled over anything in the IFB, as little as it is of not
24:58
wearing the right thing or identifying the right way or
25:01
talking the right way. And those are things that often
25:06
times because we are people of preference, we can often times
25:10
elevate preference over what Scripture says.
25:13
And when we church as pastors, as we lead a church, we want to
25:18
do things the right way. And often times the right way is
25:21
not always our way, even though we want to push that out of our
25:24
way. And we see this, the hurt that
25:27
happens often when people are cancelled.
25:30
And so when I want to ask you in your area of you, you've
25:33
interviewed lots of people in your podcast, you've talked to
25:36
lots of different people who are who were raised, born and raised
25:40
in church and are now atheist. You thought the pastors about
25:43
the pastor's wives. You've talked to a lot of
25:45
different people. And one of the reasons why we
25:47
want to have you come on was to sort of talk through some
25:50
responses that people have when when they get cancelled, when
25:54
things happen, whether they're in Bible college, whether
25:56
they're out in the in the world and in church and old staff
26:00
somewhere, whatever may be what, what are the typical responses
26:04
that we see when we come across people in the ISB have been
26:08
cancelled? Yeah, great question.
26:11
So I feel like because with the podcast, I've talked to the, I
26:17
mean, I've talked to 70 year olds like it ranges and the
26:22
number one thing is church hurt and the bitterness and the
26:27
anger. And unfortunately, a lot of the
26:30
people that I have had on the podcast, you know, identify more
26:35
as agnostic and atheist now because they look at it as well.
26:39
All my life I heard this was God.
26:42
All my life I looked at scripture and this is what it
26:44
says. And even if you, you know, they
26:46
say you got to take it word for word.
26:48
And if that's it, then I don't, I don't want it, right?
26:50
And so I've always said to a lot of people though, who say that
26:54
because they follow up with, but if I had to get back into it or
27:00
I once was getting back into faith because something happened
27:04
in my life and I immediately started praying or something,
27:07
they always say I was always looking for an answer.
27:09
And I'm like, OK, you know, And I'm like, that's understandable
27:12
that we're all looking for answers in some way, whether we
27:15
never get them or we get them within an hour type of thing.
27:18
And a lot of people though, and I've said this on my podcast
27:22
too, lot of a lot of atheist and agnostic people were once
27:27
believers and they really have the bitterness.
27:31
And most of them I have talked to say that I just haven't found
27:36
a church. You know, I live in a small
27:37
town. They're all IFP or they all have
27:39
that mindset of the standards and roles.
27:42
They don't have the, you know, the just Jesus, right?
27:47
They don't have that. They're missing it and they want
27:50
it, but they don't know how to. I've had, I've talked with a
27:53
couple people who are a part of the LGBTQ and they flat out said
28:00
I still love God, but I will never walk back in a church.
28:04
I will never walk back in. I will never have that
28:06
relationship with a church because church hurt.
28:10
And that's usually the typical response.
28:12
A lot of a lot of people I've talked to said that they had to
28:18
go to therapy to get over the bitterness and anger.
28:21
And so I think the typical response is when they get
28:25
cancelled in the IFB 1. I think it's first sad because
28:29
you lose everything in a way. You don't know where you're
28:33
going to go. You don't know because most of
28:34
the time when you go up in the IFP, that's your whole life.
28:38
You spend 6-7 days out of the week there.
28:41
That's all you've ever known. Those people are your church
28:44
family, as they say. And once you lose that, you
28:47
don't know. And so you start scrambling and
28:49
you're looking for answers. And most people do a whole 360.
28:55
They completely changed their whole entire life because
28:58
they're like, I live that life. Let me see what the world is.
29:02
They get that little ounce of freedom and they change three
29:04
360 and but I would say the typical response is either, Hey,
29:12
I am I just still with a lot of people at church her and I just
29:17
I have a relationship with God, but I will never step back in
29:20
the church and or I don't know how to get back into church.
29:25
And some people have flat out said I had a good childhood in
29:29
the IFP. But when I started looking at
29:31
scientific things or whatever, that's when I noticed.
29:34
And to that I just say, OK, you know, I respect you.
29:38
And to each their own, because it's just not my.
29:42
I don't think it's my place to judge.
29:43
I'm I'm like, it is what it is because that's the end day.
29:46
We all have free will. God gave us free will.
29:48
And if that's what you want to do with your life, then sure.
29:51
And so I always let people I know that, you know, you can
29:54
come on if you're atheist and agnostic, but I'm still a Christ
29:57
follower. I go now to church.
30:00
I took about 2 1/2 years for me to even go into church building.
30:03
But I did and I, and I'm glad I did.
30:06
But you also don't need to go into a church building.
30:08
I know I'm speaking to you guys as pastors, but to have a
30:12
relationship with God because that's the end day.
30:14
It really is your relationship with God.
30:17
You should want to go to church, but you don't.
30:19
I don't think you have to go to church, but I know that's
30:23
probably unpopular. Take speaking to pastors.
30:26
Yeah, I think, well, you know, no, go ahead.
30:29
I think one thing you mentioned that I think is well, two
30:33
things. One you see said that oftentimes
30:36
there's sadness when people get this hurt from the IFB because
30:41
their whole life is wrapped up in church and, and the culture
30:44
of where they're at. And it's a great thing.
30:46
But the sadness comes because all of a sudden your entire life
30:50
structure is now uprooted. And then I like to give the
30:55
analogy that heard years ago of the pendulum swing were there so
30:59
far on this side of, of, of where they're supposed to be
31:02
that when hurt happens, they swing so far to the opposite
31:06
side. Well, if the church said that
31:09
this is the right way, then they're now wrong because I'm no
31:12
longer there. So I've got to do the opposite
31:14
of what they've done. And it takes a couple of years.
31:17
It takes a couple of years of coming through that to sort of
31:20
get that balance back in that swing where it needs to be and
31:24
not too far one way or the other.
31:27
And so those are great things. Brett, what's your thoughts?
31:30
Well, I mean, I agree with you took the words right out of my
31:32
mouth. You know, when I think about the
31:34
situation, I think about, you know, the the analogy of the
31:38
tale of two ditches and you got one ditch that's, you know,
31:41
legalism, hardcore legalism, and you have the other ditch that's
31:46
antinomianism and just swing to so far the other way.
31:50
And a balance between the two is kind of where we need to be at.
31:54
And Olivia, I think that that you've found a way to strike,
31:58
strike that balance. As you know, you have atheists
32:00
and agnostics come on your podcast, but at the same time
32:04
you let them know, hey, I still love God.
32:06
I still, you know, want to worship the Lord.
32:09
And so I want to get to your personal story and talk about
32:14
personal examples in your life of you kind of being cancelled
32:19
in the IFB and explore your experience a little bit.
32:24
Yeah, so one of the main reasons, and I think I shared
32:28
this on my episode, but if not, then it'll be the first time
32:31
that I actually share this. But one of the main reasons why
32:35
I think I kind of draw the line of IFB and just completely left
32:41
was because a, I was very involved with the nursery.
32:46
I babysat most of the young families.
32:50
I was that nursery girl, Sunday school, junior high.
32:53
I was missing my public high school football games to go
32:58
watch their kids. So then they could do this or
33:00
that or whatever for the church. And there was a family who I was
33:04
extremely close with, and I had made a Facebook post about an
33:09
incident with IMPD that I think could have completely went.
33:15
It should have just never happened.
33:16
OK. And I just flat out said that
33:20
her husband is a cop. So I think she took more offense
33:22
to it. And I understand, I respect law
33:25
enforcement. I have nothing but respect for
33:27
them. But I think that some of the
33:29
things also need to be revised, I guess, and looked at.
33:34
And so that's what I was trying to say.
33:36
And the following Sunday, I was walking out of the bathroom and
33:41
her daughter had came up and we were extremely closed.
33:44
I mean, like me and her, that little girl, we just had this
33:46
bond like everybody knew. And she came up and she gave me
33:51
a hug and I was, you know, picking her up and my mom
33:56
standing in front of me. And the mom had walked over.
34:00
She didn't, she didn't say nothing.
34:01
She ripped her daughter out of my hands.
34:04
And I remember yelling. I remember yelling that's
34:07
Christ, like that's so Christian, like then I'm I'm
34:10
done. I was like, I'm done.
34:12
And I remember walking out those stores.
34:14
I remember looking at my mom and I said and, and my mom, if you
34:17
know where she got Mama bear. So she's like, oh, I can't
34:20
believe that just happened. And keep in mind we're in an IFB
34:24
church and I'm like, I'm done. I'm like that I am.
34:28
Nope, I am done. And so that hurt and anger and
34:32
bitterness and then COVID happened literally 2 weeks
34:35
later, everything shut down. And I remember, I remember
34:40
thinking like, I just cannot believe this happened.
34:43
How am I going to get back in that church after it?
34:46
You know, we're able to open a hope.
34:48
And as time went on, I just kept on getting that, no, I don't
34:52
want to. Like there was more things
34:54
obviously with like my former youth pastor that I opened up
34:57
about, but I had dealt with that.
35:00
But being a podcast host. Talk about cancellation, talk
35:04
about bullying. I have had death threats.
35:07
I have had legal threats that do not intimidate me.
35:12
They don't scare me. I've had, I've had people that
35:17
have known me my whole entire life who would change my
35:20
diapers, like scream about me to other members that I was once
35:26
friends with in a jam about me. I've had people tell about
35:32
certain people that have been on my podcast that we grew up in
35:35
the same former church. I've had the pastor's wife flat
35:38
out say that they were liars, that this never happened or it
35:41
did happen but they're just looking for their 5 minutes of
35:43
fame. So I have literally got the most
35:48
cancellation from all angles from people who've known me my
35:53
whole entire life. My parents were really close
35:56
actually with my former pastor and pastors wife.
36:00
A lot of people don't know that, but they they were, they would
36:02
go on golf trips, they would, we would go camping, surprisingly,
36:06
and I think that was also what hurt also my mom too.
36:10
Nobody reached out. Nobody, nobody said, Hey, I
36:13
haven't seen you this Sunday. Hey, I haven't seen you in a
36:16
month. You know what, what's going on?
36:20
Nobody's ever reached out about the podcast and said, I mean,
36:23
there's a few members that have said, Hey, you made a comment
36:26
about this or whatever and I just want to make sure.
36:28
And I sent them the mug shot and said, here you go.
36:31
You know what I say? It's factual stuff.
36:33
It's not just he said, she said, you know, and, and stuff like
36:37
that. And so I, I've got cancelled
36:40
from every angle you can think of, whether it's being just
36:44
tearing down my character or physically yanking a child out
36:48
of my arms and was like, no, so I have experienced all cancels.
36:54
And to that which I say, if you're doing something right,
36:59
then you won't get cancelled. You know what I mean?
37:02
Like they can try to do that, but I'm going to continue doing
37:04
what I'm doing. I'm going to continue my
37:06
podcast. I always say the haters are my
37:08
motivators. So I am going to keep on the
37:11
cancel, cancel. I always say you can't cancel me
37:14
in a way it just doesn't. It doesn't face me because I I
37:18
don't do this for fame or views or likes or whatever.
37:22
I just do it because I truly believe that God called me to do
37:25
this and it's helped me in my life and my faith.
37:30
And it's kind of like therapeutic like wait, I feel
37:33
like every time I record someone like now talking with you, you
37:36
know, I haven't met you Brett. Technically, I had James on
37:39
season 1 and I met his wife to Allison.
37:41
And to be able just to sit on here and like relate, like it's
37:44
therapeutic. Like it's like, wait, you
37:46
swallowed goldfish tube, Brett. Wow, join the club.
37:49
You know, so I always say you can't cancel me.
37:52
You can try all you want, but I have pretty thick skin.
37:55
But I've experienced it too. Yeah, I think it's interesting
37:58
that that it all started with you with something that didn't
38:01
have anything to do with church. You know, the a post about law
38:04
enforcement and about your own personal views had nothing to do
38:08
with religion, had nothing to do with the Bible or Scripture.
38:12
And that's what caused the the firestorm to start happening.
38:16
Me and Brett and me and John, we've talked in the past about
38:20
this. We have 8 stages of leaving
38:22
legalism on what that looks like in the, the first stage is
38:25
delusionment when all of a sudden the scales that we have
38:30
been told sort of start falling off when the people that you
38:33
trust or something happens at a moment in the, in the event
38:36
where the dam begins to break and you begin to see everything
38:41
is, is what happened. And that's sort of what you're
38:43
seeing here. And what you is this is there
38:46
was just the the one area, that one small thing that allowed
38:50
everything else to sort of show through and be able to be, oh,
38:53
wow, there is something unhealthy here.
38:55
There is something that needs to be changed here.
38:57
So as we think through that, oftentimes one of the things and
39:03
one of our very first podcast episodes we ever recorded was
39:06
with Nathan Gravatt upon bitterness and not being bitter.
39:11
Because often times, more times than not than we talk to people
39:14
who have went through the IFB and they began to come out of
39:18
the IFB. One of the initial responses is
39:21
this bitterness, that anger that comes inside of us that we had
39:26
our entire life wrapped up into it.
39:28
And now it's all taken away. The, the veil has been torn and
39:33
we get to see the truth behind it and the, the bitterness of
39:38
I've wasted all these years. I've wasted or put in all this
39:42
time and effort and money and energy and just the, the
39:45
disappointment, I guess you could say as well.
39:48
But really what I'm trying to get at is what are three ways
39:51
that you sort of in in the last couple of years of talking to
39:55
people are ways we can respond and not get bitter when we're
39:58
cancelled? Yeah, good question.
40:01
I think for sure. I think when you know,
40:06
especially with the IFB, I always tell everyone bitterness
40:10
is normal, anger is normal. Feel those emotions, but don't
40:15
stay in those emotions. Look at the bigger picture.
40:18
How I look at it is when I left in 2020 and I got out and I
40:23
didn't go to church for two years, The bitterness and
40:26
angerness that took over my life and just I was a miserable
40:29
person. I was not a happy person, so I
40:31
made everyone around me life. How?
40:34
Basically because I was not happy.
40:36
I was mad that all my life I got told this and this.
40:40
I thought this was Jesus's way. I thought the Bible said this.
40:47
You know, having my former youth pastor stand up there and
40:51
literally say to the congregation on a random Sunday,
40:55
hey, I was never saved. I accepted Jesus Christ.
40:58
I remember the anger that day standing in the nursery and I
41:02
talk about it on my podcast and it's something I think that I
41:05
will probably always struggle with because I looked at him as
41:08
a godly man. And you're telling me that all
41:11
throughout high school, the the most important years is your
41:14
youth and you're going to do that.
41:18
And then I can't take you serious.
41:19
And then you start rambling like, OK, what's real and what's
41:22
not? And so I always tell people,
41:25
feel the feelings, don't avoid them, but don't stay in them
41:28
because then they will take a part of your future.
41:32
And so for me, basically, I think that the only appropriate
41:38
response to deal with bitterness is try to see the bigger
41:42
picture. What are some things that you
41:45
can take as positives that outweigh the negatives?
41:48
For me, I look at some lifelong friends I still have even with
41:52
doing the podcast. I look at my faith, right?
41:57
I look at my parents, even though my parents, there was a
42:00
lot of resentment, anger for a lot of things that I had to go
42:03
through as a child. But I look at them also as I
42:08
hate the word victim, but a victim too.
42:10
And I do believe so strongly in my heart that most people in the
42:15
IFB are good humans. They are just doctrine and false
42:20
teachings and man made roles and they are really good people.
42:24
And that was something I had to grasp on after season 1 that I
42:29
realize that there is good people out there, there is good
42:33
members, there are good people out there that are just falling
42:35
blindly. They are not the enemy.
42:38
And try to not be as bitter anger when approaching, when
42:43
approaching things because in the long run, my mission is for
42:47
everyone to get out of the IFA in a perfect world, right?
42:51
Stop the legalism in the legalistic man made roles.
42:55
See Jesus have that relationship with Jesus.
42:57
And so I always say to not get bitter is kind of unrealistic
43:02
because I think that the emotion is very real and raw, but just
43:06
don't stay in it. Don't because, and I also say
43:09
this too, I always got told that save a face, just do it.
43:17
Be the bigger person, Just say I'm sorry, whatever to keep the
43:22
peace. But then I realized whose peace
43:25
is a keeping, It's not keeping mine.
43:27
So say what you need to say, get it off your chest.
43:31
The Bible says go to them, do it in the most respectful way or
43:35
whatever. And then say, you know what God,
43:38
I did it. Now it's up to you.
43:40
And that's, that's what I always say, don't you can feel your
43:43
emotions, just don't stay in them too long because then
43:46
eventually the boat will start sinking and then your life will
43:48
start really going under the waves.
43:50
And so that's, I would say that's kind of how I would
43:54
respond to bitterness because I think it'd be far fetched just
43:57
to say don't get bitter because that's just that's unrealistic.
44:01
Yeah, I think 1 you said, you said one thing that I thought
44:05
was really great about peace and making peace with others.
44:10
We are called be peacemakers. And I'm a I'm a believer in
44:13
that. I'm a believer that we should
44:15
make peace. Sometimes it may take a couple
44:17
of years of how to figure out life before you can actually go
44:21
back to the ones that hurt you and make peace with them.
44:25
But I do believe that we should live in that peace, but often
44:28
times it should be biblical peace.
44:30
It shouldn't be peace that is pleasing someone just to make
44:35
someone feel better or to live in unity, even though we should
44:38
live in unity. It should be a biblical
44:41
reconciliation and peace and, and grace on both areas.
44:45
And so I think that's a great way to look at it and a great
44:48
way to think about it as well. You said that and it sort of
44:50
came to my mind and I love that response of, of how you said you
44:54
grabbed on the family and faith and friends and those that are
44:57
around you. And that is a community of, of,
45:00
of people that are going to help you when times are tough.
45:03
And so I, I appreciate that. Brett, what are your thoughts?
45:07
You know, back when, in my own experience, I was getting
45:11
attacked on Facebook and people were posting about me and
45:15
posting these things and calling me effeminate and all this stuff
45:19
because I've read a different version and a lot of people came
45:22
out of the woodwork. I had a preach your friends who
45:25
are friends with me for years just kind of dumped me all all
45:30
at once. And one of the the most tempting
45:34
thing that I was tempted to do was get right back on Facebook,
45:37
get back on social media, put them on blast, cancel them, give
45:43
them a dose of their own medicine.
45:45
And and I just want to talk about a healthy way we can
45:49
react. I.
45:50
Ultimately didn't do that, but I want to talk about a healthy way
45:53
we can react to this type of shunning and this type of
45:57
cancel. Now, I do agree with you, you
46:01
know, not to stay silent when there's a when there's an issue
46:04
going on there. You know, we need people that
46:07
are brave enough to like you said, go to a one-on-one and
46:11
say, look, this is wrong. I'm coming to you here, you
46:14
know, do that. That's a biblical way to handle
46:18
that. But sometimes, you know, people
46:20
want to, you know, put the shoe on the other foot.
46:23
They want to get on Facebook, they want to blast people, they
46:25
want to cancel them in return. You know, I think about Jesus,
46:29
know there was an aspect of grace and compassion when he was
46:33
questioned. And you know, he didn't say a
46:35
word against an accusation against him.
46:37
So I just want to last kind of question I have.
46:40
I just want to kind of ask you how, when we are canceled, do we
46:44
not, you know, kind of blast others, cancel them in return?
46:48
Yes, there's a there's a there's an area where you got to speak
46:51
truth, but where's the line where you stop?
46:53
OK, now I'm getting into trying to attack them the way they
46:57
attacked me. Do you understand what I'm
46:58
trying to say? Yeah, I mean, I think that's for
47:02
sure a struggle for mine in the way of my podcast because my
47:08
mission is to expose the truth within the walls of the IFB.
47:13
And there is times maybe where whether that's my tone or
47:17
another guest or something that is coming off like we're bashing
47:21
them. And to which I say, if you
47:24
wanted us to speak highly of you, then you should have
47:26
treated us differently. And that the truth shall always
47:30
be, you know, it's biblical. You know, whatever happens in
47:33
the dark will come to light. And so I am all for in a, in a
47:39
way of not bashing, but also to make sure the truth gets out.
47:43
So if you have a pastor who's covering up abuse, will best
47:46
believe I will, I will out you in a way because if you're most
47:52
IFB pastors, you can go to them and what are they?
47:54
What are they going to say? Nope, you don't question me.
47:57
I'm authority, a man, you know what I mean?
47:59
Or the well, that never happened.
48:01
And then you find out five years later it did happen, you know,
48:04
and sweeping out of the rug. And a lot of survivors are
48:07
silenced. And a lot of them truly just
48:11
want accountability. I think it really comes down to
48:13
accountability instead of bashing, even though it appears
48:17
to be bashing when you're talking about certain people or
48:21
or a certain college or certain church or whatever.
48:24
And I always say to them that make sure that our mission stays
48:29
the truth, to expose the truth in a way where we don't turn
48:34
people away. When it comes off like we're
48:36
bitter anger or violent or anything like that, our bashing,
48:40
we're just simply saying our truth.
48:43
And you know, there is two sides to every story.
48:45
But when there's breaking news and you see a pastor on the news
48:49
and you have 101 charges, well, I'm going to believe the news.
48:52
You know, I'm going to believe the law enforcement and stuff
48:55
like that and to cover it. But I think and I think that you
48:59
can still show compassion definitely to just simple
49:02
members in the church. I just are so in doctrine with
49:05
that legalism and legalistic ways.
49:09
And there's some people that truly I think wholeheartedly
49:13
believe and know that what were when you get out of the ISP and
49:17
you say, hey, I changed my views on dress.
49:22
I realize that's not my conviction.
49:24
That was pastor I I think it's fine for my wife to wear pants.
49:28
I think it's fine for my daughter to wear pants.
49:30
I think it's fine for me to read my Bible once a week instead of
49:35
daily, you know, I mean like type of thing.
49:37
And, and then I have those people and then I also have the
49:41
people who just strictly believe like this is the way and this is
49:44
the way and, and, and I always say, well, I don't know, but we
49:50
shall see one day and we'll know.
49:53
So I think it's, I think it's, it's doable in a biblical way,
49:58
like what I said earlier to go to that person, right?
50:01
You're you're supposed to go to that person when you're getting
50:03
hurt or something happened. You're like, hey, even if your
50:07
intentions were, they still hurt me.
50:11
You know, you said this. What did you mean by it?
50:13
When the I feed don't get that. And that's what I think is
50:17
damaging because there's no accountability and it's just
50:20
because of the system how it is with that umbrella that they
50:23
use. It's here, here, here.
50:25
And it's like, you can't, you can't do it.
50:27
There's no questions, there's no open mind, there's no free
50:31
thinking. And so I think that's what I
50:34
think that's what hurts because it's like most of us, we want to
50:37
come to you with compassion. We want to look at you and say,
50:39
you know what you were, you're just, and you know, you're
50:42
doctrine wrong, man. Like you just don't understand.
50:45
And so I think it's hard though, I'm going to be honest.
50:48
I think definitely being a podcast host and what my podcast
50:51
stands for, but I always say too, if we want people out of
50:55
it, we got to we got to make sure that we stay true to
50:59
ourselves aren't the truth. We, I think tone is everything
51:03
and words are everything because I can, I can ramble on for three
51:08
hours about why I think this and this and that.
51:10
But if my tone is aggressive, if it's anger, if it's coming off
51:15
this way, people are going to listen 2 minutes of and they're
51:18
going to think she's just, she's just out for revenge.
51:22
I've heard that one too. And so I think that God gives us
51:29
so many lessons in the Bible of grace and compassion, how to
51:34
treat others. And into which I say I'm not the
51:38
judger. I'll let God do that.
51:40
I will love my neighbor because that's what he wants me to do.
51:43
And yeah. I like the distinction.
51:48
I like the distinction you made between like the abuser man of
51:52
God and then the the person in the Pew that's just
51:55
indoctrinated. I like the distinction you made
51:59
there 100%. There's abuse.
52:01
We need to expose it. And so I'm, I'm for you there
52:05
and I appreciate what you're doing.
52:07
Yeah, absolutely. I love Brett how you pointed out
52:10
the the what Jesus when Jesus, I mean, ultimately he was canceled
52:14
by religious people, right? And he's the Son of God.
52:19
He could have got up and we know that he could have called 10,000
52:22
angels down to destroy everything that was going on.
52:25
But instead he didn't speak a word.
52:28
And I think I had a couple weeks ago with my message that Jesus
52:33
not saying anything and not defending himself when he was
52:36
put on the cross, the soldiers in that moment looked at each
52:40
other and said, truly, this is the Son of God.
52:43
And I think often times our actions speak a whole lot louder
52:46
than our words can because as you said, Olivia, our words can
52:50
sometimes come across as in a certain tone that we are
52:54
revengeful, we are aggressive toward people.
52:58
But how are our actions and what are we doing because our actions
53:01
speak so much louder. And by by allowing people to
53:05
come onto our platform to share their voices and to share their
53:08
hurt and to share their concern and to show care through the
53:11
countless DMS that we've gotten in text messages and phone calls
53:15
we've gotten from people. I mean, that's the actions that
53:19
we're doing to help people who have been hurt.
53:21
And that's the ways where we can show grace and compassion in
53:25
ways that we'll never see on this side, never see who The Who
53:29
we've helped and and how we've we've shared encouragement and
53:34
it's just a blessing to be able to do that.
53:36
Olivia, any closing remarks from you or any things that you want
53:39
to say before we end the call today?
53:42
Yeah, so when we, you know, we go back and forth about like
53:48
with the Bible and stuff like that.
53:51
What would you, I guess like for me, because I'm so used to doing
53:54
this too, what would you say for someone who listens to my
53:58
podcast and they'll see that we collabed whatever.
54:01
What would you say to someone who wants to get back in church
54:04
after leaving the legalistic world and the fundy The I say
54:08
fundy, but fundy world and having that mindset that all
54:13
preachers are like that, because I did.
54:15
I thought that I thought all Baptist churches, if I saw a
54:18
Baptist sign, I thought you're IFP right.
54:20
And then I'm realizing other Southern Baptist there's, you
54:24
know, all type of branches. What would you say to someone
54:28
coming from a pastor though aspect?
54:31
Where can they start after leaving the legalistic and fundy
54:36
world? Yeah, I'll, I'll start and I'll
54:39
talk to Brett and see what he thinks.
54:41
I, I think that for me, one of the things is just not been
54:45
afraid to step back into a world of, of a place of truth and
54:49
grace. And I tell people often there's
54:52
a lady down here where I'm at the church, there's a subway
54:55
just, I mean, I can almost throw a rock and hit it.
54:58
And I was in there talking with her and she's got purple hair
55:02
and her boyfriend came in and he's got tattoos and, and
55:06
they're, they're rough looking people.
55:07
I mean, people are rough. I look rough sometimes.
55:10
And it's I invited him to church and she looked at me and she
55:13
said, are you one of those Hellfire brimstone preachers?
55:16
And I said, I mean, I preached the Bible.
55:19
I don't know if it if the Bible talks about Hellfire brimstone,
55:23
then yeah, sure. I'm a Hellfire brimstone
55:25
preacher. And so we went back and forth a
55:27
little bit and I said, I tell you what?
55:28
And her name was Cindy. I said, Cindy, So I tell you
55:31
what I said, why don't you go to my website, our church website,
55:34
our Facebook page. I said, listen, I said every
55:37
single one of my sermons is online because I'm not hiding
55:40
anything. I said, we put our entire
55:42
service, our singing, our worship, our announcements, our
55:46
our fellowship time, everything that we're doing, my sermon, I
55:50
said, I'm not hiding anything. You may listen to it and think
55:52
this guy is a crazy nut and I probably am, I said, but at
55:56
least you know what you're getting into.
55:57
And I think that's part of the world we live in.
56:00
We because of COVID and because everyone was forced to go
56:03
online, man, you can listen to everything before you even go.
56:09
I would, I would encourage maybe if, if stepping into a church
56:12
building is tough because of the hurt and the pain that you've
56:15
experienced, go and listen and just see maybe is this guy or
56:20
this church sort of the, the atmosphere that I want to be
56:22
around. You can sort of tell the
56:23
atmosphere of the church by just watching online and allowing
56:27
that to be sort of your launching off point.
56:29
You may listen to it and say, OK, that's not the church for
56:31
me. Find another one there, there.
56:33
There's churches everywhere. Listen to them.
56:36
Maybe you want more Orthodox or more, whatever it may be.
56:40
And so listen 1st and and then step foot in and, and I think
56:45
it'd be a good help. Brett, what's your thoughts?
56:47
Somebody that's fresh out, one of the things that I would say
56:51
is just take some time with your family.
56:54
I'll just give you a quick example.
56:56
Whenever we, I left IFB, I was an assistant pastor at my home
57:02
church for eight years. And when I left, IFBI left the
57:06
IFB church to go pastor a Southern Baptist church.
57:09
And that's how I got out. And one of the things that the
57:13
church that I went was a smaller church.
57:14
They didn't have a Sunday night service.
57:16
And I was pounded in ME3 to thrive, baby, you know, you got
57:20
a Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, Sunday school
57:24
got to be at the church seven days a week.
57:27
And I remember going to that new church and I felt a little
57:29
guilty not going to church on Sunday night until it's like, so
57:34
we started visiting other churches and my office like,
57:36
let's just stay home. I was like, OK, let's do it.
57:39
And man, my family got so close during that time.
57:43
We experienced the closeness and a healing.
57:46
And so I think it's OK to take take some time.
57:49
Now listen, I'm like, I'm a pastor, you know, I believe you
57:52
should go to church. But when you've been through
57:54
church hurt like that, you've been abused like that, you do
57:57
need to just take some time and you spend time with your family
58:01
and you need to heal a little bit.
58:03
Not going to do that that way forever.
58:05
There's nothing wrong with taking some time and healing.
58:09
And then when you're, when you're ready, I agree with,
58:13
with, with James, with the availability of online, you can
58:17
just go around and listen to some things, you know, listen to
58:22
some pastors in the area and, and dip your toe in that way.
58:27
But my advice would be, yeah, take some time, spend time with
58:31
your family, heal a little bit. And then, you know, when you're
58:35
ready, just kind of slowly dip your toe back in and, and, and
58:40
go from there. And until you, you're going to
58:43
have this mindset that they're all alike until you force
58:47
yourself to experience something other than the IFB.
58:52
And so that that would you be my advice.
58:55
And. I'll play this on the piggyback
58:57
what Brett just said. I think that the reason why we
59:00
think they're all alike is and this is going to sound horrible
59:05
when I say it, so don't hear I say it when I say this.
59:10
The IFB was so they love the Bible, right?
59:14
The Bible is and I love the Bible too.
59:16
Don't give me I'm not saying I don't, but they, they preach the
59:21
inerrancy of the Bible. They preach that the Bible is
59:24
God's word and 100% it is the problem with it is they use the
59:28
Bible as a weapon. And when the Bible's a weapon,
59:33
all of a sudden, every time we hear the Bible, we think it's a
59:36
weapon as well. So when we go into a church as a
59:39
biblically grounded expository preaching faithful to the
59:42
worship of the Word church, and the Bible's preached and the
59:47
Bible's read, it immediately hurts us because it was used to
59:51
hurt us before. And so we've got to get to the
59:54
point where the Bible's not a weapon.
59:56
The Bible's there to help him comfort and heal me.
59:59
And then when we hear the Word of God preached, it's no longer
1:00:02
a weapon. It is there to help us.
1:00:04
Yeah. Part of what Brett just said of
1:00:08
how the IT can be there to help us once we get past that point
1:00:12
of understanding that. Yeah, I think that's wonderful.
1:00:15
And I'm glad that I'm able to come on your guys's podcast and
1:00:21
actually not be a host for once. It's kind of nice.
1:00:25
Yeah, Yeah. And just talk about the IFP and
1:00:28
just the cancer culture within the, you know, walls of IFB.
1:00:32
And I think that also to kind of bounce back real quick, James,
1:00:36
when you said, you know, the mindset that they're all alike
1:00:40
is because, well, to be honest, in my feed, they all are alike.
1:00:43
They are not independent as they claim they are.
1:00:47
They are very tied in with each other.
1:00:49
And so I always say if you don't want that, just stray away from
1:00:52
denomination, go to like a non denom or if you want a if you
1:00:56
still want a pastor to preach from the KJV only there is still
1:01:00
good Baptist churches out there that are not IFB And so But
1:01:05
yeah, thank you so much guys. I appreciate, you know, coming
1:01:08
on and being able to kind of share about my experience and to
1:01:12
talk about my podcast too. Yeah, it was a great.
1:01:18
Absolutely. Well, thank you for coming on.
1:01:20
We appreciate it and I look forward to getting to know you
1:01:22
more in the future. And until next time, to God be
1:01:25
the glory. Great.
1:01:27
Things he hath done a new name found that good grace found that
1:01:34
healing, and the tears fell down my.
1:01:37
Face. When I found my beginning that
1:01:39
has no ending, I found that second chance, found my best
1:01:41
friend, found my forgiveness. Found my happiness.
1:01:43
I've been singing ever since I found my freedom.
1:02:00
Thanks for listening to the Four Freedom Podcast.
1:02:03
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