Latest / Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality / 062: Are You Helping Your Employees Grow, or Holding Them Back?

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062: Are You Helping Your Employees Grow, or Holding Them Back? · Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Sandra, what happens when you're really good at your job,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: but your manager doesn't want you to grow beyond it?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: That's one of the questions that came up in our
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: conversation with Simone McNitt. We talked to her a few
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: years ago. And what was funny, because what we started
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: out talking about was all the different generations that are
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: in the workplace right now. What we actually ended up
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: exploring throughout the conversation was leadership, career growth, and the
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: importance of human connection, especially in the workplace.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It was such a good conversation. Before we jump in
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: too deep, please remember to follow or subscribe to Exposing
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the Hidden Reality wherever you're listening or watching today so
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: you don't miss any future conversations.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Because as we've already mentioned, you don't want to miss
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: our conversations. So now let's hear from Simone.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I want to introduce everyone to this amazing dynamo that
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: I met recently.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: And I have just been so wowed by her.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: I could not wait to have her come and talk
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: with us today. So Simone McNitt is the founder, executive
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: director of Encore Placements. It's a nonprofit organization that assists
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: in placing experienced workers 50 and older in meaningful, equitable
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  Speaker 3: paid jobs with age friendly employers in the greater Cleveland community.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Simone serves as a program co-chair of the Council on
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  Speaker 3: Older Persons, an advisory committee of the Center for Community
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Solutions and on Racial Equity. Diversity and Inclusion Advisory Committee
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: for Art Therapy Studio Greater Cleveland. She's the co-chair on
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  Speaker 3: the Livable Cuyahoga Social Engagement Subcommittee and previously served as
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  Speaker 3: the board chair of Cleveland SHRM. Simone is a Society
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: of Human Resource Management Certified Professional. And a certified women
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  Speaker 3: business enterprise, minority business enterprise, and small business enterprise owner.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Whoa.
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  Speaker 3: She mentors experienced professionals, providing guidance and tools to assist
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: individuals in learning their marketable skills. And in each of
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: these ventures, she has dedicated herself to fostering age-inclusive workplaces.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: I love this. I love you, Simone. Thank you.
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  Speaker 3: In 2021, she was named as one of Crane's notable
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: entrepreneurs for her ability to place seniors in a tight
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: market as the owner of Talent Inclusion Partner LLC. I
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  Speaker 3: don't even know where to begin, Simone, because you are
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  Speaker 3: such a powerhouse. And I think maybe the first thing
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  Speaker 3: that I would invite you to tell us about is
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  Speaker 3: just why you're so passionate about age-inclusive environments. Especially because
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: you focus not just on the seniors or the experienced workers,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: and you also focus on another end of the market.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: College students. So college students getting out of school. First,
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: let me just tell you, ageism is ageless. It's point blank.
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  Speaker 5: It really is. When you're getting out of college after
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: four years, you're trying to find where you belong, where
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: you want to go, start your career. And it's one
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  Speaker 5: thing to study books. It's another thing to have that internship.
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: But once you get out there, you're going to need
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: someone on the job mentoring you, showing you the way.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: So that's why I believe having many generations in a
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: workforce is awesome. It's a whole cultural experience and it's
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  Speaker 5: a win-win experience for everyone involved. I like working with
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: college students. I like working with older adults who've decided,
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: I like what I've done. Maybe I want to do
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: something different. Or maybe I want to work less. Maybe
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: I want to do some consulting. I feel like if
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: you've got it here and you've got it here, you
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: can stay in the job market.
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  Speaker 4: That is so amazing. I love what you said. Ageism
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  Speaker 4: is ageless.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: One of the challenges we have is who is our
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: customer base and is our internal hiring representative of our
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: customer base?
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  Speaker 1: Hmm.
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  Speaker 5: That's a hard one. I think it's going to depend
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: on the industry. I've realized that nonprofits, they have a
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: variety of individuals working within their organizations. But up top,
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  Speaker 5: within the last, I think about five years, to where
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  Speaker 5: the executive directors are more in tune with what's going
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  Speaker 5: on culturally, what's going on in the workforce, as far
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: as wanting to bring in the younger generation and help
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  Speaker 5: mentoring them. We used to have a lot of older
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: executives who felt like, hey, I've been here 30 years.
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  Speaker 5: I belong here. I don't need new ideas. And once
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  Speaker 5: you get in that mindset, it's an issue. Yeah. It's
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  Speaker 5: an issue. So having representation of every generation and staying
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  Speaker 5: current with what's going on in the environment, it's really important.
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  Speaker 5: It is really important.
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  Speaker 1: And it's important to recognize exactly what you're saying, which
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  Speaker 1: is it's not only the younger people that need to
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  Speaker 1: be mentored, right? We could all benefit from being mentored
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  Speaker 1: by somebody that's different than us, either in thought or
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  Speaker 1: background or education level. But we can also be leveled
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  Speaker 1: up by somebody with different technology skills, different thoughts, different
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  Speaker 1: ways of being.
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  Speaker 5: And so when I.
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  Speaker 1: Work with my older clients that are, you know, 35 plus,
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  Speaker 1: they're like these young people.
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  Speaker 5: I'm like, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 1: We don't talk about these young people. We need these
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: young people. And you may not realize it, but you
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: need them more than they need you. And why not
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: give of yourself? Why not create a legacy by working
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: well with the younger people to transfer on knowledge or
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  Speaker 1: the history of an organization so that it doesn't die
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: when the older generations start retiring? So that's why I
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  Speaker 1: love that you're working with both ends of the generations
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  Speaker 1: in the workforce, because they'll bring everybody in the middle together. Yes.
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: Yes. Now we need to all start working with the
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: hiring managers, the executives, because years ago, I really felt
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: like they were pitting the older generation and the younger
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: generation against each other. The older generation really felt that
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  Speaker 5: if I train you, you're going to take my position
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: and I'll have nothing. And that's a management issue. Yeah,
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  Speaker 5: that's a cultural issue, right?
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  Speaker 1: Where they create that sort of environment where that's how
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: people feel because it's coming from somewhere.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: And, you know, I think that's so interesting because I've
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: heard that so many times. And I've always been of
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  Speaker 3: the opinion that if I don't train someone to take
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: my spot, I can't move on. Because then I'm tied
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: to this role that nobody else can do. So it's
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  Speaker 3: just so fascinating to me.
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  Speaker 5: That's because, Sandra, you have a growth mindset. You want
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  Speaker 5: it to grow and get on to the next thing.
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  Speaker 5: Some people aren't like that.
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  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: And I think there's value in noticing that we need
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: both of those people in an organization, because I've also
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: been in organizations where people are penalized for not wanting
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: to move up the corporate ladder or not wanting to
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: move on to the next position. And people view them
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  Speaker 3: as they're not a solid worker as a result of that.
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  Speaker 3: When the reality is, if everybody's trying to climb the
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  Speaker 3: corporate ladder, then no one's focused on doing the work
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  Speaker 3: that is currently on their plate.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 5: Right. And I've looked at that. I've talked to individuals
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: about that. Why are you hesitant on moving on? And
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: sometimes it's a lack of training. It's a lack of self-esteem.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know what's going to come with that next position.
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  Speaker 5: What if I take that next position and I get
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  Speaker 5: fired because I'm not as good as I thought I was?
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  Speaker 5: Which again, I have to tell you, it's a management
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  Speaker 5: issue because if management was having opportunities for those individuals
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  Speaker 5: to continue their training, their education, and leading them up
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  Speaker 5: to the next step, they wouldn't have a problem. They
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: wouldn't know I'm ready.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: So let's dive into that conversation a little bit. Let's
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: talk about what an employee can do for themselves to
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  Speaker 1: track their success and to talk about it with their leadership, right?
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  Speaker 1: Because the fact that I keep it in a spreadsheet
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  Speaker 1: or keep it in my handy dandy journal does me
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  Speaker 1: no good if I'm only getting talked to once a
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  Speaker 1: year during performance review time. What are some habits that
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you would encourage people to work on developing so that
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  Speaker 1: they can track their success and talk about it more frequently?
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  Speaker 5: So here at Encore Employment Enterprise do a couple of
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  Speaker 5: different things. We have a six-month review to get you
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  Speaker 5: ready for your yearly review. And I always tell people,
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  Speaker 5: when you come in and we sit down and talk,
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  Speaker 5: I want you to have every accomplishment that you've had
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: over the year. Don't wait till the last minute and say, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 5: I don't remember anything. Yeah, I did do a presentation
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: for you, but I don't remember. I mean, I do
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: have it because I keep it on my calendar, but
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  Speaker 5: you got to show that initiative. You've got to take
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  Speaker 5: charge of your career. It's yours. The other thing that
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: I like to do are one-on-ones. So with our one-on-ones,
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: we always set up because we just had one last week.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: getting ready for the year. So we mapped out our
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: goals and the staff's goals are pretty in line with mine,
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: which are in line with our grant goals. So it's
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  Speaker 5: no surprise. You know what we need to do. And
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  Speaker 5: we talk about it and we keep it front of mind.
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  Speaker 5: I have mine on my desk. They have theirs on
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  Speaker 5: their desk and everything is working towards those goals. We're
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: all moving in the same direction. Yeah. And one of
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  Speaker 5: the things that I always tell them that they have
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: to put on their goals is professional development. That can be,
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: I need to go to a training over at Tri-C
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: or some other college. I want to go to a seminar.
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  Speaker 5: And when you're in a nonprofit, you have to budget
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  Speaker 5: for that. But knowing ahead of time, it's really important
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  Speaker 5: because if they're not learning and growing, they're going to
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  Speaker 5: end up leaving. So all the time and energy I
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  Speaker 5: put into bringing them in and creating a wonderful culture,
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  Speaker 5: it's going out the door if I'm not giving them
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  Speaker 5: what they need.
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  Speaker 1: So refreshing to hear that there's organizations that do this
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  Speaker 1: work and lay the foundation for their team members to
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  Speaker 1: be successful.
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  Speaker 5: That's really what's hard.
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  Speaker 1: I can't believe that people don't have these conversations with
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  Speaker 1: their leaders because But some leaders don't know how to
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: have these conversations.
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  Speaker 5: So personal development.
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  Speaker 1: Isn't only for the hourly or the staff members, right?
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  Speaker 1: Personal development is for everybody.
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 5: So I get mine from my board. Like I tell
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: them each year, I need a coach and I need
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: a coach in this area because I've never done fundraising. Okay.
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: So I'm like, I need someone to help me with fundraising.
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  Speaker 5: I need to be mentored in this area. Yeah, that's amazing.
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  Speaker 5: You've got to speak up. If you like what you're
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: doing and you want to stay within a certain area,
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: you've got to make sure that you're staying current and
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: getting what you need because things are changing so quickly.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And the technology is amazing. Like I was telling Sandra
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: this morning, I've never done anything with the streaming. And
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: I was like, yay, thank you. So this is really great.
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  Speaker 1: New people get you in front of new experiences, right?
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So continuing to network and meeting new people. You met
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Sandra at the women's entrepreneurship event last November. Like that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: is key to staying relevant and staying on top of
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: things because I know I do.
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  Speaker 5: I learned so much just by talking with other people.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: So we have a training class here, a call center
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: training class for individuals 50 and older, helping them upskill.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: If you want to work in a call center environment
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  Speaker 5: and you've never done it before, we offer the six-week
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: paid training. From that training, I learned from a lot
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: of the participants that were in there, yeah, we've never
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: really been to any kind of event that would show
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: us what entrepreneurs do or women who are growing their businesses.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: And I thought, you've got to be kidding me. So
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: I talked with Lorraine and she's like, yeah, bring some
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: individuals from your classes if they want to come. And
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: they did. We had three ladies come and they really
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: enjoyed it. So now. we're going to be doing it ongoing.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: That's amazing.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I grew up working in call centers, contact centers. So
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: knowing that a program like yours exists is amazing because
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: many people want to stay in the workforce, but they
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: don't want to do a physical job or a service job.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: They don't want to be a server in a restaurant
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: any longer. So what's something that you can do? And
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it's really a knowledge work job.
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: I am telling you when I first decided that I
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: really wanted to do this, because I have a call
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: center background as well, I thought, well, this is absolutely purpose.
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  Speaker 5: This is a wonderful purpose because of the fact that
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: the older adults, they've got the soft skills. The only
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: thing that they're missing is updating the technology aspect. That's
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: easy to train and teach. The soft skills are Either
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: you have that emotional connection with someone over the phone
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: or you don't. And it's got to be authentic. Yes.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: You feel it over the phone when it's not.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: And it's so easy to tell when someone's not paying
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: attention either.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is. I love it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I have no idea what you mean with my children
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: scrolling on the phone while I'm talking to them and
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: not paying attention to me at all.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when my husband's talking to me, he's like, I'm like, yeah,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not paying attention at all. You should start right
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: back from the beginning.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I interrupted. You were going to start.
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: No, that's it. That's amazing.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: There's this thought that women in the workforce don't get
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: as much ad hoc feedback from their managers. So they
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: might wait for a more formal setting. Like you were
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: talking about a one-on-one, a six-month review, a performance review.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: What would you say to managers and leaders in corporate
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: America about giving your direct reports that ad hoc, like
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: walking out of a meeting, like, hey, that went well,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: or oh my God, your slide 15 is a hot mess.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: How can we encourage people to talk to their team
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: members about real performance?
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: First, I'm going to highly suggest that they get to
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: know each person on their staff. Yeah, it's time consuming,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: but it is valuable. It is absolutely valuable. Don't interview someone,
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: hire them, and not talk to them until it's time
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: for review. Because by that time, I'm going to tell
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: you right now, they're going.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: To be gone.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: They're going to leave. By the time you sit down
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: and talk at that review, they're ready to tell you,
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: here's my two weeks notice. Because you're already not going
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: to have enough information to give them that increase that
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: they probably well earned and deserved. But having brief conversations
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: and not waiting to the one-on-one, saying hello to someone
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: when they come in, expressing, oh my gosh, thank you
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: for coming in today. I know it's so cold and
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: you probably could have worked from home. I appreciate having
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: you here today. That's going to open up more conversation.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: Don't walk past your employees and do this. And don't
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: bleed on your employees. Your boss cheered you out for something.
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: Don't take it out on your employees. Having those little
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: side conversations or that it's nasty outside because we live here.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: In the tundra. How would you feel if you went
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: out to the parking lot? You've got all the snow
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: in your car. And two cars away from you is
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: your supervisor. Would you be so impressed and excited if
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: they came over with their brush and brushed off your car?
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: That costs you nothing. It shows you care. It shows
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: you respect them.
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: You got to find ways to communicate, find ways to
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: let that person know you value them because you absolutely do.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: It is not easy to find someone that wants to
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: come in every day and enjoy what they're doing. It's
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: pricey to replace people. I know people say everybody's replaceable,
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: but at what cost?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: And I hear you saying probably the best advice ever.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: which is be a human to the humans that you
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: work with and watch it pay off. Yeah.
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: Annette, one thing that people keep saying, and it blows
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: my mind, but it's going to take time for it
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: to change. Soft skills. What are soft skills? They're people skills.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: That's what they are. They're human people skills. That's what
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: it is.
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: Be a human.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Get interested in what the people around you, not that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: we have to be like deep into their personal lives
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: or their personal drama, but I agree with you saying
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: good morning, checking to make sure the temperature in the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: office is okay. making a reasonable concession when somebody can't
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: get into the office, giving people what you would want,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: giving people what they want in an experience. And you
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: have to be connected to people to know what those
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: things are.
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot to be said for
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: laying boundaries because that's really how we get to know people.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: You can feel free to text me, but I probably
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: won't respond unless it's after 7am in the morning and
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: not after 8pm at night, right? Setting an expectation so
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that if you are not texting them back because it's
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: 830 and you're already, your phone's in night mode, they're
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: not sitting there like, oh my gosh, they're mad at me.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: They haven't texted me. What's going on?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So communication is key.
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. That's so funny you said that because
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: we have those, I call them policies, but that's basically
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: letting people know if you text me, which I'm not
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: a big texter.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: I'm know that I will get back with you. But
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: if you text me any earlier than eight o'clock, I
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: might not, I might not get back to you immediately
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: because I haven't seen it yet or because I'm already
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: here in the office because I get here at seven o'clock. So.
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: And you're just not looking at your phone. You're not
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: on it like that.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Yes. So that communication is key, but then expectations or
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: boundaries around it really make it a lot easier for
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: people to feel heard.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: One of the things that Annette introduced me to, Simone,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: and I have fallen in love with this concept. And
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I tell people about it every time I can. She
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: calls it her personal user manual.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Annette.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something I learned about on LinkedIn like over
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: 10 years ago. And it is really helpful. You sit
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and you reflect on there's four or five areas and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you answer these key questions like what's the best way
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to communicate with me? What is something I'm not willing
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to stand for? You sort of lay out all of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: your personal policies that interact with others at work and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: then you share those and then you ask.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: Your team to do that same reflection. We have it
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: in our application file.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: Do you really?
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: Yes, because I think it comes from my experience of
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: how I like things and how I like to be treated.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: And I want to know each one of my employees.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: I run a nonprofit. I don't have the luxury of
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: replacing my employees. People I hire, I don't feel like
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: they can be replaced. And I would be devastated if
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: they left. But if they left, it's probably something that
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: they really needed to do. I absolutely know that no
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: one on my team is going to leave because I
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: didn't care about them as a person or as an employee.
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: I know what colors they like. I know what candies
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: they like. I know when they're dieting. I take the time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: You have to do it up front because those are
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: the people that you want to keep. I'm not saying
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: that we're family because they know I have rules about that. Right.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: There's a line. But they also know that if their
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: car is not running, they are not to try to
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: get on the bus. They are not trying to race
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: here to get here to be on time. That's not necessary.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: If anything happens to them, I'll be at the hospital
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: as soon as I can get there. That's it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: It's the people you care about, right? I always say that,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: you know, friends are the family you choose. But similarly
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: at work, people... help your business run, help your department run.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: They are invaluable.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: They are a part of the machine that moves things forward.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So can you value them in that capacity and help
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: them grow? so that they either stay with you or
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: grow with you. One other attitude that always knocked me
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: out was when other managers didn't want their team members
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to get promoted. Did you experience that in your professional life,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Simone or Sandra?
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: Call center. When I worked at a banking call center,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: and it was one of the first ones here in Cleveland. Really,
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: really great job. And I came from retail. I just
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: remember enjoying what I was doing, but I needed more
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: because I took a step down. It seemed like a
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: step down at the time to go into a call
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: center as a call center rep when I left retail
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: as an assistant manager. But the hours were better and
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: it was just awesome. But the manager that I reported to,
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: really nice guy. And he would tell me, if another
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: position opens up on another team, I don't want you
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: to go. And I'm like, what do you mean you
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: don't want me to go? And I think because of
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: what he said to me, helped me because I developed
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: a whole manual for growth within the call center. And
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: I ended up talking to a couple of people that
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: I needed to talk to. And the upcoming VP said,
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: oh my gosh, this makes sense. This makes sense. And
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: we implemented it. I had to interview for the position
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: I wanted that I created, but I got it. got it.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: So I guess my takeaway with that is hear what
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: that person has to say. And if that person is
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: telling you, I really don't want you to move because
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: you're so great. Oh my gosh, kudos to you. Now
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: take that knowledge and run with it.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And from a leader's perspective, know that they can either
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: grow with you or they can say, oh my gosh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: when Simone was my manager, she helped me get promoted.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I'm forever grateful for her. Would you rather have somebody
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: talk to you about that? Or, oh, Simone didn't let
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: me get promoted and I had to leave the company
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to get what I needed.
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Those are the options. Which leader do you want to be?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: And that starts with these initial conversations about performance. And
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: here's my preference. What are your preferences? It's all this
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: full circle of how we treat people.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I hope managers are sharing that performance review from
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: day one. This is what you're going to be reviewed on.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: From day one. And if it changes, let your employees know.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: It's not a secret. It's not a pop quiz. It's
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: your performance. Right?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: You're showing up every day, hopefully, to get closer to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: those goals, to do your part to get closer to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: those goals. So yeah, share everything you have, everything you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: everything that you can't share.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: Sometimes you can't. I get it. But when you can
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: loop them in or.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Tell your direct reports what's happening, it's so much fun.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. I remember a young lady that I
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: worked with. She had one of the top notch mentor
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: manager who saw something in her and he was so right.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: And he helped her flourish as an individual. And when
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: something came open at another company, he told her about
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: it and he helped her get that position. And she
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: talks about it all the time. She's like, that's the
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: best thing that's ever happened to me. And now she's
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: running that company.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Helping somebody else shine doesn't make you shine any less.
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: It makes you shine brighter. Oh my gosh. You shine brighter. Yes. Agreed. Agreed.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that I like about what
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: you are both describing is that people can contribute to
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: an organization in many different roles. And sometimes the role
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: that they're in, they're good, but they could be outstanding
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: in a different role. And I think that part of
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: the role that the manager plays is not only in
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: helping their team members develop, grow, but also helping them
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: recognize where their talents and the job create this circle
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: of beautiful support.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: For both, right?
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Because some people end up in.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: A role and they're good, but they could be outstanding
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: in a different role and they're afraid to move or shift.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Or maybe they're afraid of how it might be viewed
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: if they move or shift.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: And oftentimes I've found, especially in IT, we have to
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: chart our own careers and people don't appreciate when we move.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: And then, well, why would you go over there and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: do that? Because it seems so unrelated to the skills
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: that you have. And then you fast forward eight years
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: and you realize all those little micro steps that they
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: made gave them such a well-rounded depth of information that
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: now they're able to progress into a step that nobody
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: saw for them, but because they managed their career, they
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: were able to fill in all of those different gaps
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: that seemed unrelated at the time, but were so critical
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: in providing that foundation.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: That's really, that is like a stepping stone that should
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: be taught to individuals, high school, if you're going into
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: a trade or college students, don't be so, I went
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: to school for engineering, but the first job I got
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: was customer service. So I'm going to leave it off
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: of my resume going forward. Eventually you're going to have
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: to take some of that stuff off your resume, but
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: don't be embarrassed about quote unquote, your beginnings because it's
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: setting you up for your future.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially I'm thinking engineers are sort of stereotyped, right? Straight-laced,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: they don't have lots of conversation, they're get-it-done kind of people.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: And then if I saw somebody with also customer service experience,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ooh, okay, now we have an engineer that
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: thinks linearly and talks about the technical aspects, but also has,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: like we were talking about, people skills. So yes, whatever
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: shows you in.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: The best light.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why sticking your resume through AI- And
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: like having it spit something out. It's not just Simone's laughing.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: It's not the way to go. It needs a human element.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: You have to think about what your hiring manager wants.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: And then you have to make the resume show and
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: demonstrate those.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: Skills and expertise.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: I don't care how much people try. AI is not
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: going to have the human skills because it's not human.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: It's not human.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Hiring practices and screening and all.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Of that stuff.
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: And it's funny because people think, oh, yeah, this sounds
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: really great. They won't be able to tell. Oh, yeah. Well,
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: we can because we're human.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: We have human skills.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: I'm like totally writing that down.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm highly skilled in human skills. There you go.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. So Simone, from where you're sitting.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Now and all the lives that you get to touch,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: people entering the workforce, re-entering the workforce, people finding out
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: what they're meant to do in the last stages of
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: their careers, what would be your best piece of advice?
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: Don't be scared. Don't be scared. So people who are
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: pivoting and deciding that they want to do something different,
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: they decided a while ago, but they haven't taken that
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: plunge because they're nervous. They're scared. What if it doesn't work? Well,
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: what if it doesn't work? You go back to what
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: you know and you try again. So don't be hesitant
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: to try. And for those college students that are coming
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: out and thinking that they have to have this perfect
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: job and I'm going to pay off all of my
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: bills immediately, unless you're living at home, probably not. But
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: look for those mentors, your next door neighbor. Look for
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: people that know you and are invested in your growth.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: I always do this, Simone.
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: I come up with a new topic like minutes into
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: the conversation. But I have to jump in on what
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: you just said. Why are new people entering the workplace
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: so terrified of networking?
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: This is not nice, but I've encountered that this that
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: social media has, social media has its pluses and minuses.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: I don't want to say anything negative about it, but
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: getting in a room and having, having conversation with people
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: is totally different than having conversation on this and texting
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: with someone. It's, it's not the same. That's not networking.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: That is not networking. And I do know that the
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: pandemic definitely did not, it has not helped.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: But it's gone. It's past us. So we do need
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: to get back out. Even if you have a networking
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: event via Zoom, you're still meeting people.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Or you just sit down and.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: Have a cup of coffee with somebody.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I just, so I could go on for hours and
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: we don't have hours, but I have two young workforce entrants.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And every time I say, oh, I just, you know,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: ran into this person. They have this information. Jump on
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: a call and just say, can I pick your brain?
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: They're like, oh no, I can't do that. That's creepy.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: That's weird.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: But it's like all these things, it's uncomfortable.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: It's called networking. And it's an important human skill you
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: need to develop.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: It is. And I tell parents, they're not teaching that
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: at school. You need to teach it at home. You
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: need to tell them how you used to get your positions,
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: how you interviewed. Even though some of that's changed, it's
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: still the same connection. The follow-up, the thank you note.
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: Even if you want to do a thank you email,
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: that's how I picked my intern, mind you. He's totally awesome.
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: Other individuals that I interviewed, they didn't send me a
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: thank you note. They didn't ask any follow-up questions. I said,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: do you have any questions about what we do here?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: Or did you do any research?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: No. Okay.
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: And then later when I called to give them feedback, oh, yeah,
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: I didn't know that. But he was so on target.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: He sent me a thank you. He sent me a follow-up,
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: although I have to laugh. He's like, yeah, I knew
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: I was supposed to send a follow-up, but I didn't
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: have anything because we had talked so long. So I
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: just made it up. But you know what? He did it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: He did it. Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: 57% of people send a thank you note after an
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: interview and that's it. It's so, so wild. And yes, email,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a LinkedIn message, anything is acceptable. Make the connection and
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: reach out.
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And that's why it's so easy to stand out.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Because everybody is still thinking this is 2019 and he
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: hitting the apply button on the company's website will land
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you the job. And that's just the beginning. You have
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: to do that. I agree with you, but that's not
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: where it ends. That's where it starts.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: I can honestly tell you both of my young adults
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: have gotten congratulations. The reason I hired you is because
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: of your follow-up and your thank you notes. And they
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: interviewed the people that are interviewing them. Yeah, you have to.
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: It has to be a conversation.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, it's an interrogation and it's not a good look.
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: No, no, it's not. Simone, this has been such a
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: wonderful conversation. Sandra, what do you have to add?
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I know she's always going to- I'm going to party
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: like 1999, not 2019.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: That was a totally different job market.
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: And we could talk about the fax.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Machine and- I can't believe it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: People are still faxing.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: Where do I fax this?
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: No, don't fax it. I know where you're going to
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: fax that to. I don't know. I don't know where
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: you're going to fax that to.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, I'm going to be singing Prince on the
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: way out.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: What?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Get in.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Simone.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: How they can get in touch with you.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: So you can reach me two places. You can reach
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: me at talent. I partner.com or you can reach me
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: at this one's a little harder. It's E three. Encore.org.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yes. And Nat, I just love Simone's reminder that people
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: have something valuable to contribute at every stage of their careers.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And that helping someone else doesn't diminish your own success.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Whether you're leading a team or managing your own career,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: there's something to think about there.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: So true. Well, we would love to hear your thoughts,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: dear listener. Join the conversation in the comments.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And if you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: to our newsletter at exposingthehiddenreality.com, where we send you a
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: little bit more juicy bits of our thoughts and feelings.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: And we have juicy thoughts and feelings. See you next week.