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Companies and DEI · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
0:06
Speaker 2: All the stuff I never told you, procure if I
0:08
Speaker 2: hurt you, and welcome to a very special stuff we
0:22
Speaker 2: never told you. We were so excited to be joined
0:24
Speaker 2: once again by the very well read, the very well
0:28
Speaker 2: missed Bridget Todd. We have missed you so much, Bridget.
0:31
Speaker 2: We're so glad to have you.
0:33
Speaker 3: Oh, you were very well missed. I missed you all
0:37
Speaker 3: so much. Thanks for having me here, Like, uh, yeah,
0:40
Speaker 3: I used to kind of rely on shooting the shooting
0:45
Speaker 3: with y'all. I'm nice to have that outlet. I've missed
0:48
Speaker 3: it so much. Thank you for having me here.
0:52
Speaker 4: Then it took us twenty minutes to get to the
0:54
Speaker 4: recording part because we were in such conversation. I was like, oh, yeah,
0:57
Speaker 4: we actually need to do things, but I missed talking
1:00
Speaker 4: so with Bridget.
1:01
Speaker 1: So we need to know all the details.
1:03
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and you, I mean you always. There's so
1:09
Speaker 2: much going on right now, and so much in the
1:11
Speaker 2: technology sector and so much in so many sectors that
1:14
Speaker 2: I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget.
1:19
Speaker 2: So you have been very well missed. Which is the Yeah,
1:21
Speaker 2: I think something I just made up right then, But
1:25
Speaker 2: I know this is a loaded question, how have you been?
1:29
Speaker 2: What's been going on?
1:31
Speaker 3: If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a
1:35
Speaker 3: meme of Derenda saying, how have I been? Not well,
1:39
Speaker 3: that's that question. Not well, I mean I have I
1:46
Speaker 3: have gone. I had the worst year of my life
1:48
Speaker 3: last year, and I do want to say, like a
1:51
Speaker 3: big part of that was Annie and Samantha, you both
1:56
Speaker 3: really being such good friends and good collaborators and like
2:01
Speaker 3: really giving me a lot of space, and so I
2:02
Speaker 3: want to say, like, thank you for all the support.
2:05
Speaker 3: And so I've had a personally rough go and then
2:10
Speaker 3: on top of that everything else that's happening. It feels
2:13
Speaker 3: like I went offline and when I came back, the
2:15
Speaker 3: world was spiraling, and so, yeah, I have been experiencing
2:19
Speaker 3: despair personally, and then I feel like everybody else kind
2:22
Speaker 3: of also met me in despair, and it's like, oh,
2:24
Speaker 3: we're all in despair together.
2:26
Speaker 4: Welcome, which is essentially crying in each other's arms for
2:30
Speaker 4: different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's
2:34
Speaker 4: on fire.
2:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and here we are, like, yay, Bridget,
2:41
Speaker 2: tell us about it.
2:44
Speaker 1: Come talk to us about this stuff.
2:45
Speaker 2: Please, just make say some things.
2:48
Speaker 3: Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it
2:51
Speaker 3: is as people who make podcasts and make contact. It's
2:54
Speaker 3: like you have to find this balance of like not
2:57
Speaker 3: wanting to severely bum everybody out. And you know, we're
3:01
Speaker 3: not just people who make podcasts, Like I listen to
3:03
Speaker 3: podcasts for fun, and I find myself being like, you know,
3:06
Speaker 3: I can't handle anything real right now, I need to
3:10
Speaker 3: just distract myself with some fluff. I think. I think
3:14
Speaker 3: we're all both as content creators and as people who
3:18
Speaker 3: take in content and appreciate media, we're all trying to
3:21
Speaker 3: find this like sweet spot. I don't know if y'all
3:23
Speaker 3: listening can identify with this, but I've really been struggling
3:25
Speaker 3: with how much to take in to not have me
3:30
Speaker 3: completely be spiraling, and how much to take in to
3:32
Speaker 3: keep me informed. So trying to find that balance.
3:36
Speaker 4: Right I think the big conversation is like knowing that
3:39
Speaker 4: we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not
3:45
Speaker 4: the complete like we're we can't stop everything, but we
3:48
Speaker 4: do have a responsibility in witnessing it and making sure
3:51
Speaker 4: we're calling it out.
3:52
Speaker 1: But at the same time.
3:54
Speaker 4: Sometimes that means that our well being is out the
3:59
Speaker 4: window when we see too much?
4:01
Speaker 1: What do we see way too much?
4:04
Speaker 4: And so having that balance of being like, yes, I'm
4:06
Speaker 4: ready to be refreshed and fight again is so hard
4:09
Speaker 4: to do what it feels like it's a constant.
4:11
Speaker 5: New fight exactly.
4:12
Speaker 3: I saw this post that I feel like really summed
4:14
Speaker 3: up where I'm at, where it was like, certainly, if
4:17
Speaker 3: I read one more piece of content or one more
4:20
Speaker 3: news article instead of going to sleep, I will feel
4:23
Speaker 3: totally in control of what is happening. I yes, that
4:27
Speaker 3: could have been written by me.
4:31
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Yes, Well, okay, speaking of we were
4:36
Speaker 2: discussing a friend of mine who every day is sending
4:41
Speaker 2: me these texts where I can tell she feels she
4:44
Speaker 2: has no control and I'm kind of like, you need
4:47
Speaker 2: to you need to find something else. I don't not
4:50
Speaker 2: all day, not all the time. This is not good
4:52
Speaker 2: for you. But where we are going to talk about
4:55
Speaker 2: one of the things she used to do to distract herself,
4:58
Speaker 2: which was go to target the store. Target that was
5:04
Speaker 2: like one of her favorite things, and now she's very
5:07
Speaker 2: conflicted about all of it. And I know that we're
5:11
Speaker 2: going to talk about that.
5:13
Speaker 3: Brigitte, Yes, yes, and so I have to say, like,
5:15
Speaker 3: shout out to Annie's friend because her and me both
5:19
Speaker 3: I there's a Target that is very close to my apartment.
5:21
Speaker 3: It's walking distance to my apartment. I will just like
5:24
Speaker 3: walk around Target just for like a scenery change, like
5:26
Speaker 3: the same way people will be like, oh, take a
5:28
Speaker 3: walk in the park. I'm like, oh, let me see
5:29
Speaker 3: what Target has. It's a terrible habit. Y'all can call
5:33
Speaker 3: me out, like totally totally own that it's not good behavior.
5:37
Speaker 3: But I heretofore have loved Target, Like there's just something
5:42
Speaker 3: about walking around like they really like get the people
5:46
Speaker 3: who are chopping there. And I think that's one of
5:49
Speaker 3: the reasons why the whole thing with Target and DEI
5:53
Speaker 3: is it feels personal to me. It feels kind of
5:57
Speaker 3: heartbreaking because listen, Walmart stores like that.
6:00
Speaker 5: It's like they're not stores where.
6:02
Speaker 3: I would imagine there are people who see me and like,
6:06
Speaker 3: you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels occupies
6:09
Speaker 3: a very different space in my consciousness. So when I
6:13
Speaker 3: hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really
6:17
Speaker 3: don't like it. Does that make sense?
6:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, you definitely have to go through your list of like, well,
6:21
Speaker 4: all that, I can't go there anymore.
6:23
Speaker 1: I can't, and your list starts.
6:25
Speaker 4: Dwindling, especially when you like, for the longest time, we
6:29
Speaker 4: kind of not champion because there's still a corporation at
6:31
Speaker 4: the end.
6:32
Speaker 1: But for a while they were doing some things that were.
6:34
Speaker 4: Like, Yay, finally you're doing some good initiatives at least
6:39
Speaker 4: bringing on great products for a diverse group of people,
6:43
Speaker 4: which is apparently the problem, and actually standing up for it.
6:47
Speaker 1: So it seemed so to come back and be like,
6:50
Speaker 1: what the.
6:50
Speaker 3: Hell exactly that? So I want to get into all
6:54
Speaker 3: of that. But for folks who don't know what's going on,
6:56
Speaker 3: the Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive
7:00
Speaker 3: orders I guess, like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling
7:05
Speaker 3: DEI initiative. So this happened in the federal government. Like
7:08
Speaker 3: currently right now, folks who work on anything even tangentially
7:12
Speaker 3: DEI related within the federal government have been placed on leave.
7:16
Speaker 3: I live in DC, and that that is like what's
7:19
Speaker 3: happening with federal workers, both in the District of Columbia
7:23
Speaker 3: and nationally is like a whole other conversation. It really
7:28
Speaker 3: is horrible, and I think it will effect impact all
7:30
Speaker 3: of us. I think we will all be less safe
7:32
Speaker 3: because of it. So I wanted to name that. But
7:35
Speaker 3: when it comes to DEI, it is not just the
7:37
Speaker 3: public sector, because Trump also issued executive orders meant to
7:41
Speaker 3: quash DEI programs in the private sector as well. He
7:45
Speaker 3: directed agency heads to drop list of publicly traded companies
7:48
Speaker 3: to investigate their DEI programs.
7:51
Speaker 5: So this is not a totally new thing.
7:53
Speaker 3: I know that. When I was on stuff I've ever
7:55
Speaker 3: told you a while ago, we were talking about the
7:57
Speaker 3: Supreme Court decision back in twenty twenty three about affirmative action.
8:01
Speaker 3: So another sort of side effect of that Supreme Court
8:05
Speaker 3: ruling was that some of these big private companies started
8:09
Speaker 3: reassessing the legality of their programs after that ruling. So
8:12
Speaker 3: it's not totally new. But Trump being in the White
8:16
Speaker 3: House and sort of starting off his administration with, you know,
8:19
Speaker 3: signaling all of this pressure on DEI programs really has
8:22
Speaker 3: taken it to a new level.
8:24
Speaker 2: Yes, And I feel like a lot of companies have
8:27
Speaker 2: come out of the woodwork, not just companies but other
8:29
Speaker 2: like universities and all this, and they're like, yeah, we'll
8:32
Speaker 2: just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's
8:34
Speaker 2: so ready to be like yep, okay, did want it? Gone?
8:39
Speaker 5: Yes?
8:39
Speaker 3: So like I mean so like as somebody who covers technology,
8:43
Speaker 3: I have really I'll say, not shocked, but disappointed when
8:48
Speaker 3: it comes to tech companies, how quickly they were like, look, gone,
8:52
Speaker 3: gone gone. After having to sit through years of listing
8:56
Speaker 3: to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about
8:59
Speaker 3: the way that support women, LGBTQ people, black people like,
9:03
Speaker 3: and I think with technology they have the power to
9:06
Speaker 3: shape so much of our world and so much of
9:09
Speaker 3: our culture that what they do really can set the tone.
9:12
Speaker 3: And so yeah, it just sucks that we spent any
9:15
Speaker 3: time at all pretending that these companies gave a crap
9:19
Speaker 3: about any of us, And then how quickly they're like, oh,
9:21
Speaker 3: just kidding. So I'll run through a little bit of
9:24
Speaker 3: where we're at with some of these companies. So Facebook
9:28
Speaker 3: just immediately went along with Trump like we'd be here
9:31
Speaker 3: all day if I listed all the ways, but just
9:33
Speaker 3: a taste, you know. Obviously, they rolled back their DII programs,
9:36
Speaker 3: they rolled back fact checking immediately, they lifted restrictions on
9:41
Speaker 3: saying things like quote women are property on their platforms,
9:45
Speaker 3: and so if that is an attitude that you happen
9:47
Speaker 3: to hold, that women are property, you can say that
9:50
Speaker 3: on Facebook all day long and it is not a problem.
9:53
Speaker 3: You also saw Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg doing things like
9:57
Speaker 3: ordering the removal of tampons from all men's bathrooms in
10:01
Speaker 3: company offices.
10:02
Speaker 5: So these weird things.
10:03
Speaker 3: Where as Mashville put it, this decision was not about
10:07
Speaker 3: cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no
10:12
Speaker 3: practical purpose and sent a clear message about the company's
10:15
Speaker 3: shifting priority. So these things that are clearly like they're
10:18
Speaker 3: not about cost cutting, they're not about, you know, making
10:21
Speaker 3: the company more efficient. They're just about making it clear
10:24
Speaker 3: where they're at, which mission accomplished, because I really have
10:27
Speaker 3: a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg,
10:31
Speaker 3: of course, went on a bunch of podcasts dressed like
10:34
Speaker 3: a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook
10:37
Speaker 3: needs more quote masculine energy at their companies. Now. Now, again,
10:41
Speaker 3: keep in mind, this is not a company that Time
10:43
Speaker 3: magazine describes their current workforce as almost seventy percent mail.
10:48
Speaker 5: So I guess that's like not mail enough. We need
10:50
Speaker 5: it to be more male.
10:52
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know how much more mail
10:54
Speaker 3: you can get other than like one hundred percent.
10:55
Speaker 4: But okay, which is kind of like the opposite once
10:58
Speaker 4: again of being like, you want to be really masculine,
11:01
Speaker 4: but a part of your masculinity is like being impressive
11:03
Speaker 4: to women. So will you being so impressive towards each other?
11:08
Speaker 4: Like bro okay, which I kind of missed the days
11:12
Speaker 4: where we were talking about him and fighting with Elon.
11:14
Speaker 1: I know you would go back to those days.
11:16
Speaker 4: How that?
11:17
Speaker 3: So he had a window where people didn't hate him.
11:20
Speaker 3: And what's funny is that I was just reading this
11:21
Speaker 3: study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg like
11:24
Speaker 3: changed his look and was trying to go for like
11:26
Speaker 3: a softer, gentler approach. Turns out everybody still hates him.
11:29
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, who even did who even
11:31
Speaker 3: did this study? You're like, what, what's this's the study?
11:34
Speaker 3: But there is a study that apparently that little window
11:37
Speaker 3: where people didn't hate his guts did not last and
11:41
Speaker 3: had no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny
11:44
Speaker 3: sliver of goodwill that he got from people from that
11:46
Speaker 3: like one week or whatever, people didn't completely hate his guts.
11:50
Speaker 4: Right, I think the whistle blowers in his life just
11:52
Speaker 4: really was not having it. So I also missed them
11:56
Speaker 4: me too.
11:57
Speaker 3: Francis Hogan, where are you at?
12:00
Speaker 2: Met you? I hope you're okay.
12:03
Speaker 4: Speaking of big companies, we know, like there were several
12:14
Speaker 4: big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited to
12:18
Speaker 4: do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do, including Amazon, right.
12:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, they scaled back their DEI programs pretty quickly. Google,
12:28
Speaker 3: I will say two companies that did not immediately scale
12:32
Speaker 3: back to EI or Apple and Microsoft. Both of those
12:34
Speaker 3: companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are
12:39
Speaker 3: so companies. So I don't want to be like giving
12:40
Speaker 3: them too much rav rock credit. Microsoft has been very
12:44
Speaker 3: chummy with Trump. But I do want to give credit
12:46
Speaker 3: where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do
12:50
Speaker 3: think like it's a choice. You know that one of
12:52
Speaker 3: the big companies that did not scale back TOI that
12:56
Speaker 3: we'll talk more about in a bit is Costco, Right,
12:58
Speaker 3: and so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these
13:02
Speaker 3: companies don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these
13:06
Speaker 3: executive orders is a choice, right, And so I wouldn't
13:10
Speaker 3: even Like a lot of people have described this moment
13:13
Speaker 3: as sort of a mask off moment, especially when it
13:16
Speaker 3: comes to tech companies, I wouldn't even say I agree
13:18
Speaker 3: with this. I don't think that these companies have like
13:23
Speaker 3: necessarily not wanted to do inclusion work all along. I
13:29
Speaker 3: don't think that that. I think the people who run
13:30
Speaker 3: these companies will just align themselves with whoever is in
13:34
Speaker 3: power and whatever is the favorable position at the moment,
13:38
Speaker 3: and so I don't even think it's a mask off moment.
13:40
Speaker 3: Like I don't think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors.
13:44
Speaker 3: I don't think he has true colors. These are people
13:46
Speaker 3: who not who don't have genuine values or backbone. And
13:49
Speaker 3: so if you don't really have if you don't really
13:51
Speaker 3: value anything, it's not really a mask off moment because
13:54
Speaker 3: your value is just power and money, right.
13:57
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because we've had so many.
14:00
Speaker 4: Conversations about places like Google and tech companies like them,
14:04
Speaker 4: and how their initial setup was kind of like we're
14:07
Speaker 4: the cool nerds that you want to come work for.
14:10
Speaker 4: We're the ones that's offering you know, unlimited PTO, but
14:13
Speaker 4: we really don't think you should take it we're the
14:15
Speaker 4: ones that's bringing in women of color to be leaders,
14:18
Speaker 4: but not really because if we want to fire them
14:19
Speaker 4: because they're talking too much and giving too many suggestions, Like,
14:22
Speaker 4: it's interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh,
14:25
Speaker 4: finally we don't have to pretend to be the cool
14:27
Speaker 4: nerds and just be uh at the alpha males that
14:31
Speaker 4: we've been training to be essentially.
14:34
Speaker 3: So I actually think you're spot on, and I do
14:39
Speaker 3: think we really need to have more conversations about the
14:42
Speaker 3: cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and some
14:45
Speaker 3: of these tech companies, because I think it is how
14:48
Speaker 3: we sort of got into this mess in some ways,
14:50
Speaker 3: because you know, if you think back to like, you know,
14:52
Speaker 3: think back to the day the early days of platforms
14:55
Speaker 3: like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and the
14:59
Speaker 3: people made it occupied a very specific place in our
15:04
Speaker 3: cultural popular imagination. Right, it was Google offices that looked
15:08
Speaker 3: really cool, that had pinball machines and open offices. Right.
15:12
Speaker 3: Google's motto used to be don't be evil until they
15:14
Speaker 3: dropped that motto officially in twenty eighteen. I think they
15:18
Speaker 3: might have just taken off the don't right. Maybe it's
15:19
Speaker 3: now like a little bit evil for a treat is fine.
15:22
Speaker 3: I think that we gave them so much space and
15:26
Speaker 3: so much runway to be these cool nerds who we're
15:28
Speaker 3: going to be using technology to improve all of our lives,
15:31
Speaker 3: and we kind of trusted that that's what they were doing.
15:36
Speaker 3: And I think that because of that trust, now when
15:39
Speaker 3: we check back in and it's like, wait, are you
15:41
Speaker 3: guys actually still invested in building a better future, and
15:44
Speaker 3: they're like, now, we're invested in making money through exploiting you. Actually,
15:48
Speaker 3: I think that's where we're at, And so I think
15:50
Speaker 3: it's really you're so right.
15:51
Speaker 5: To bring up that sort of cultural.
15:54
Speaker 3: Dynamics that are running some of these companies and in
15:57
Speaker 3: tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them.
16:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.
16:03
Speaker 4: One of the best, most like immediate examples was TikTok
16:07
Speaker 4: TikTok with that's like trying to fight the government. I'm
16:10
Speaker 4: here for you, We're here for your voice and where
16:12
Speaker 4: we want to represent for your First Amendment rights, and
16:15
Speaker 4: then being like, oh, we love Donald Trump. He's gonna
16:17
Speaker 4: save us. Let's give money to him. Like it's such
16:20
Speaker 4: a switch quick turnaround. We were all like oh, we
16:23
Speaker 4: were rooting for you for a split second, like we
16:25
Speaker 4: were kind of doubting you and a few things. But
16:27
Speaker 4: now like, oh, they were such a quick turnaround of
16:30
Speaker 4: exactly what we saw play out, except it took a
16:33
Speaker 4: little while longer.
16:35
Speaker 3: I had the exact same feeling, Like I remember thinking, oh,
16:38
Speaker 3: TikTok Ceo is like this young guy, he's so savvy
16:42
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. How quickly he turned heel right, So like,
16:46
Speaker 3: don't trust any of these leaders. I don't care how
16:48
Speaker 3: savvy they look. I don't care how young they are.
16:50
Speaker 3: Like tech, a tech company will break your heart. A
16:53
Speaker 3: tech company will exploit you get rich off of it,
16:56
Speaker 3: and then expect you to champion them like a damn
16:59
Speaker 3: luminary because it absolutely.
17:01
Speaker 1: I mean again Target.
17:03
Speaker 4: For a split secondly, we really were like, oh, they're
17:06
Speaker 4: bringing in black women own products, and we want to
17:10
Speaker 4: cheer that on. They're standing up for the LGBTQ plus community.
17:14
Speaker 4: We love that, you know, really seeming like their pain
17:17
Speaker 4: beyond their minimum wage and people are being like, we're excited,
17:20
Speaker 4: and then it turned to this.
17:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, so let's get into it.
17:23
Speaker 3: So on January twenty fourth, Target announced they were going
17:26
Speaker 3: to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to
17:30
Speaker 3: foster and promote black owned businesses in its stores. This
17:32
Speaker 3: is following Trump's signing of the executive order ending DEI
17:36
Speaker 3: programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff
17:41
Speaker 3: member Kira Fernandez, Target's chief Community Impact and Equity officer
17:44
Speaker 3: and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company
17:47
Speaker 3: said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys
17:50
Speaker 3: and submitting information to the Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index,
17:54
Speaker 3: which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said,
17:59
Speaker 3: quote twenty twenty five will be accelerating action in key
18:02
Speaker 3: areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving growth
18:06
Speaker 3: and staying in step with the evolving external landscape. And so,
18:10
Speaker 3: just like what you were saying, Sam, this is particularly
18:14
Speaker 3: notable because Target really did seem like one of those
18:18
Speaker 3: retailers that was making and signaling investment in things like inclusion,
18:23
Speaker 3: especially after twenty twenty. So Target their headquarters is based
18:26
Speaker 3: in Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed. So in twenty twenty,
18:30
Speaker 3: Target reiterated its racial Equity Action and Change initiative, which
18:34
Speaker 3: involves things like anti racism training for employees and prioritize
18:37
Speaker 3: hiring and promoting black staff, and they really look to
18:40
Speaker 3: grow the number of black owned businesses at Target. In
18:44
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, Target pledged to invest two billion in
18:47
Speaker 3: black owned businesses by the end of twenty twenty five
18:49
Speaker 3: as part of this program. And so here's the thing
18:53
Speaker 3: that I always like to talk about when it comes
18:55
Speaker 3: to things like DEI and inclusion. These programs don't just
18:59
Speaker 3: exist because they're like the nice thing to do, which
19:01
Speaker 3: they are. They're good business. They make companies money. These
19:06
Speaker 3: companies exist to make money, and it turns out that
19:09
Speaker 3: inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer Brian
19:13
Speaker 3: Cornell told Fortunes Leadership Next podcast in twenty twenty three
19:17
Speaker 3: that all of these like inclusion and diversity focused initiatives quote,
19:21
Speaker 3: fueled so much of our growth over the last nine years.
19:24
Speaker 3: So they are definitely cashing in and making money off
19:28
Speaker 3: of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.
19:32
Speaker 4: I wonder how close to that goal were they when
19:37
Speaker 4: five happened, like to giving those billions in investments, Like,
19:42
Speaker 4: were they actually that closed or maybe I wonder conspiracy
19:45
Speaker 4: theories like they were nowhere near something like let's just
19:46
Speaker 4: roll it back and pretend like it never happened because
19:48
Speaker 4: we're not going to meet this.
19:50
Speaker 3: I mean, that wouldn't surprise me whenever. So this is
19:53
Speaker 3: like like a hot tip for listeners. Whenever our company
19:56
Speaker 3: is like we pledge to do xyz thing, right, it's
19:59
Speaker 3: always good have just to follow up because half the
20:01
Speaker 3: time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting
20:03
Speaker 3: on anybody following up. So it's like they can say anything.
20:05
Speaker 5: They could say we.
20:06
Speaker 3: Pledged to do whatever, and it's like if if no
20:09
Speaker 3: one's following up, they can just get all the good
20:11
Speaker 3: pr and goodwill without actually doing the thing that they
20:15
Speaker 3: voluntarily said they were gonna do.
20:17
Speaker 1: Right, no one asked for these numbers.
20:18
Speaker 2: You brought this up this I'm sure you've run into
20:21
Speaker 2: this before. Bridget as a medium that depends on advertisers sometimes,
20:27
Speaker 2: like during like Pride Month, they'll be like this company
20:30
Speaker 2: is gonna do this and do this and do this,
20:32
Speaker 2: and I'll be like, okay, tell me how silence. I
20:37
Speaker 2: never hear from them again, Like.
20:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't expecting I wouldn't have said that up.
20:44
Speaker 5: I thought you were gonna like ask the follow up.
20:48
Speaker 2: Asking basically people to donate to your companies that you're
20:53
Speaker 2: gonna donate, like, well, what are you gonna do though?
20:56
Speaker 4: What you to those organizations and then write it off
21:02
Speaker 4: as their taxes as if they donated the money and
21:05
Speaker 4: not the customers obviously any come.
21:08
Speaker 2: On, so naive.
21:10
Speaker 4: I am honestly like that whole rolling up of like
21:14
Speaker 4: the change and then everybody's like, don't do that because
21:18
Speaker 4: they're using this as a tax break.
21:19
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, that's sell bug. Oh damn it.
21:23
Speaker 1: Yeahy so evil.
21:24
Speaker 3: I mean, like that's the thing. Like I want to
21:26
Speaker 3: be clear, it's not like I'm it's not like like
21:29
Speaker 3: I ask someone who is very critical of things like capitalism.
21:34
Speaker 3: I didn't think Target was really my friend or really
21:37
Speaker 3: my ally even when they did this stuff. So it's
21:38
Speaker 3: not I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to
21:41
Speaker 3: like truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think
21:45
Speaker 3: these companies that go out of their way to signal
21:48
Speaker 3: to me, you know, as a black woman consumer, that
21:50
Speaker 3: like we care about you, we we like understand that
21:54
Speaker 3: you are fueling our profit margins, or like let's try
21:58
Speaker 3: to be aligned with like give you the customer experience
22:01
Speaker 3: that you want. I do think that matters, and so
22:03
Speaker 3: especially a company like Target, I don't know if folks
22:07
Speaker 3: really understand the role that Target plays, especially for Black women,
22:13
Speaker 3: like you know, back in the day. So look, if
22:16
Speaker 3: you like, back in the day when I first grew
22:19
Speaker 3: my hair out natural, there were not a lot of
22:21
Speaker 3: mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a
22:25
Speaker 3: well stocked natural hair care aisle. Target was one of
22:28
Speaker 3: the first, right, and so it really I think went
22:32
Speaker 3: another way to curry a lot of favor with Black
22:35
Speaker 3: women as a consumer base because of that kind of thing,
22:37
Speaker 3: being like, oh, what is it that you actually use,
22:40
Speaker 3: What is it that you're actually looking for? How can
22:41
Speaker 3: we fill the niches in your you know, shopping situation.
22:46
Speaker 3: I think Target did that very well, and I think
22:48
Speaker 3: it really positioned them as a place where they were
22:52
Speaker 3: signaling to the people who actually give them money, like, Hey,
22:56
Speaker 3: we see y'all, we know what y'all need, we know
22:58
Speaker 3: what we're listening to you. As the cup points out,
23:01
Speaker 3: the retailers. Black owned brands span categories from home to
23:04
Speaker 3: apparel and beauty, including hair care brands The Dough Camille, Rose,
23:09
Speaker 3: and the viral mel and beauty brand the lip Bar.
23:12
Speaker 3: These brands fill avoid in the market, making products for
23:15
Speaker 3: various skin tones and hair textures available. For example, the
23:18
Speaker 3: dough has its viral curl defining moves beloved by the
23:21
Speaker 3: natural hair community.
23:23
Speaker 5: So it really did.
23:25
Speaker 3: Play a particular role I think in a lot of
23:28
Speaker 3: black women's shopping diets.
23:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and it was like you said, a
23:34
Speaker 2: mainstream store to do it, and it felt I don't know,
23:42
Speaker 2: we like you said, we have said their companies they're
23:46
Speaker 2: not allies, but it felt nice to be like, Okay,
23:49
Speaker 2: I can go here and this place is with me.
23:55
Speaker 2: Kind of gets me. This seems like a it doesn't
23:59
Speaker 2: feel as bad that I'm going here, you know, I
24:02
Speaker 2: don't feel the same guilt maybe right else.
24:06
Speaker 4: I think this also brings into the conversation about the
24:09
Speaker 4: fact that they need to like erase this as in
24:14
Speaker 4: like take this out because of why so this is
24:17
Speaker 4: obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity
24:25
Speaker 4: stunt essentially just like bringing off products and bringing saying
24:28
Speaker 4: like okay, so diversity in equity and inclusion in these
24:32
Speaker 4: being what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation.
24:35
Speaker 4: It's pretty much saying, Okay, we will now exclude a
24:39
Speaker 4: certain group of people that were excluded previously before this time,
24:44
Speaker 4: and by doing so, we're going to make white supremacists
24:49
Speaker 4: feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with I don't know,
24:54
Speaker 4: shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like
24:57
Speaker 4: they but why why is this so important that Target
25:00
Speaker 4: needs to do this, Like they were making money off
25:02
Speaker 4: of this and they're so afraid of or I guess
25:05
Speaker 4: maybe they are just white supremus one of those two
25:08
Speaker 4: things in order to satisfy a group of people who
25:15
Speaker 4: didn't even know it was a thing. For like the
25:16
Speaker 4: longest time. People were just like, oh what is this
25:18
Speaker 4: new stuff? Okay, moved on, except when people finally said
25:21
Speaker 4: this is black oman, They're like, oh my god.
25:23
Speaker 3: What. Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I
25:27
Speaker 3: honestly think that in this moment, it's just about signaling
25:30
Speaker 3: alignment with Trump and the new administration. I think that, like,
25:33
Speaker 3: you know, Target has been making good money off of
25:40
Speaker 3: marketing toward marginalized people, right, I mean, y'all remember when
25:45
Speaker 3: the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of
25:49
Speaker 3: a lot of extremists because they had a well stocked,
25:53
Speaker 3: robust pride section for pride things like that, like and
25:56
Speaker 3: Target caved on that. Like I will say, like, so,
26:00
Speaker 3: I think it really just illustrates that these companies, whatever
26:05
Speaker 3: is in power, whatever is the like, they don't actually
26:09
Speaker 3: have values or backbones, and we shouldn't necessarily even be
26:12
Speaker 3: expecting them to. They'll they'll just cave and bend to
26:15
Speaker 3: whoever is in power. And what makes it even more
26:17
Speaker 3: frustrating is like after they they will do that, after
26:23
Speaker 3: they signaled that they want to be more aligned with
26:26
Speaker 3: these communities. So Chantel Powell, who is a black entrepreneur
26:29
Speaker 3: who makes a deodorant for kids called play Pits, which
26:32
Speaker 3: was stocked at Target, she put it really well. She said, quote,
26:35
Speaker 3: it's frustrating corporations jumped on the bandwagon to support black
26:39
Speaker 3: businesses when it was trendy. Now that it's easier to
26:42
Speaker 3: discard us, that's what they're doing. And so yeah, I
26:45
Speaker 3: just don't think that these companies give a crap. Really,
26:48
Speaker 3: they it's all posturing, it's all signaling, like they don't
26:52
Speaker 3: really have any kind of like values to genuinely stick
26:55
Speaker 3: to or a firm like in moments of you know, upheaval.
27:00
Speaker 5: Well, the thing that you can.
27:01
Speaker 3: Always go back to as your north star is values.
27:04
Speaker 3: Like as a contact creator, I had to have a
27:06
Speaker 3: whole conversation when Trump took power of like, well, what
27:09
Speaker 3: are my values and what am I doing in this
27:11
Speaker 3: moment to actually serve the people that I want to
27:13
Speaker 3: be in community with you. When you have values, that
27:16
Speaker 3: is always your north star. These companies do not have
27:19
Speaker 3: any value, so of course they're going to blow wherever
27:21
Speaker 3: the wind.
27:21
Speaker 4: Blows, right, They're going to do the bottom line, which
27:26
Speaker 4: there's so much again, like in this conversation about how
27:29
Speaker 4: who was easily discarded first? And this is all about
27:32
Speaker 4: the virtue signaling, as they want to say, because as
27:36
Speaker 4: robust as their like stock was, it wasn't you still
27:41
Speaker 4: have to like purposely find it. And it was a
27:44
Speaker 4: shock to see it, like it's I remember the many
27:46
Speaker 4: times we're like, oh that's cute. Oh look it's you
27:49
Speaker 4: know a black owner or a black creator who did this.
27:51
Speaker 4: That's amazing because it's one out of one hundred, you know,
27:55
Speaker 4: to see it was notable because there wasn't that many.
27:58
Speaker 1: So even the most like.
28:00
Speaker 4: Diverse products were just literally one out of fifty one
28:04
Speaker 4: out of one hundred, Like, it still wasn't.
28:07
Speaker 3: I remember back when extremists were targeting Target because of
28:10
Speaker 3: the pride stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get
28:13
Speaker 3: upset because Target sold chest binders right for trans folks,
28:18
Speaker 3: and it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder.
28:21
Speaker 3: Why is it so horrible that like, out of out
28:24
Speaker 3: of what one hundred, It's like when you go into
28:26
Speaker 3: the underpant section of Target, ninety nine point nine percent
28:31
Speaker 3: of garments are designed for SIS people and they have
28:33
Speaker 3: one product for trans people, and it's the end of
28:36
Speaker 3: the world. Like, how is that really the biggest complaint
28:40
Speaker 3: that you can make right now?
28:42
Speaker 1: Right?
28:42
Speaker 4: I mean our sports bras alone, yes, are just as
28:47
Speaker 4: offensive to me sometimes, But anyway, why would you uh no,
28:52
Speaker 4: in all of those statements. It really like, as much
28:55
Speaker 4: as we want to tell that they were inclusive, they weren't.
28:57
Speaker 1: And the amount of.
29:01
Speaker 4: Hate that people will give in order to make a
29:04
Speaker 4: sleep again, we know that haters in general want to
29:08
Speaker 4: want to create controversy, so they would go out trying
29:11
Speaker 4: to look for anything that they're like, this is controversial,
29:14
Speaker 4: this is this? Why does this have to be this
29:16
Speaker 4: and half the time again it was misinformation or disinformation
29:19
Speaker 4: and being like, uh, this black product for the black
29:22
Speaker 4: community was often created by white corporations.
29:25
Speaker 1: Like we saw that many times.
29:27
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely so when Target announced their intention to pull
29:33
Speaker 3: back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some like
29:37
Speaker 3: Minneapolis Council Member Jason Chavez and Strike for All, which
29:40
Speaker 3: is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Nita Turner,
29:43
Speaker 3: called for a boycott of Target in response, which is
29:46
Speaker 3: currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky
29:50
Speaker 3: in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean
29:54
Speaker 3: that like black and brown owned companies are going to
29:56
Speaker 3: be you know, pulled from the shelves. And so you
29:59
Speaker 3: saw a lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait,
30:02
Speaker 3: if you boycott Target and you're not going to go
30:04
Speaker 3: to Target, it will hurt us even more because that's
30:07
Speaker 3: less people who are buying our items from the shelves.
30:10
Speaker 3: Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder
30:13
Speaker 3: of the Dough the haircare brand, shared the statement on Instagram,
30:17
Speaker 3: saying pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the
30:20
Speaker 3: corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love.
30:23
Speaker 3: It also feeds into false narratives that we're only here
30:26
Speaker 3: because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices
30:29
Speaker 3: and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on
30:32
Speaker 3: the textured hair category. Through the dough you might say like, oh, well,
30:37
Speaker 3: I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying
30:40
Speaker 3: it from Target. But Powell, the founder of Playpits That
30:44
Speaker 3: Kids deodorant company, said that buying directly online might not
30:47
Speaker 3: actually be so helpful for some of these black owned brands.
30:50
Speaker 3: She said, big box retailers are a predictable revenue stream.
30:54
Speaker 3: Online I might make two thousand dollars one day and
30:57
Speaker 3: two hundred the XT but with Target, I have a
30:59
Speaker 3: consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for
31:02
Speaker 3: my customers to shot my products. For moms, convenience is key,
31:07
Speaker 3: and so I get where these creators are coming from.
31:11
Speaker 3: I do want a spotlight that one of my favorite
31:13
Speaker 3: black creators who has the brand Oh Happy Danny, immediately
31:17
Speaker 3: announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like
31:20
Speaker 3: phasing her stuff off the shelves as soon as Target
31:22
Speaker 3: made this announcement.
31:23
Speaker 5: But you know, I do understand the.
31:28
Speaker 3: Complexities here because it is not a clear cut situation,
31:33
Speaker 3: and I don't want to say that I have the answer,
31:35
Speaker 3: but I understand that people want solidarity from some of
31:40
Speaker 3: these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target.
31:43
Speaker 3: But I also understand that, hey, if you're a black
31:45
Speaker 3: creator and a black entrepreneur, you do have a harder
31:48
Speaker 3: time compared to your non black counterparts, right, And so
31:51
Speaker 3: you know, people are basically saying, like, well, why should
31:54
Speaker 3: I be expected to miss out even more because of
31:56
Speaker 3: a decision that Target made.
31:58
Speaker 5: I can really understand both Bosi.
32:00
Speaker 4: Right, It's one thing to say we're gonna boycott McDonald's
32:04
Speaker 4: and Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with
32:08
Speaker 4: these creators who have brands, it's it is hard. Like
32:13
Speaker 4: we talked about the fact that also it's really hard
32:15
Speaker 4: for individuals in general, uh to try to figure out
32:18
Speaker 4: what's a good company, because all these grocery stores or
32:21
Speaker 4: all these stores they have something, whether it's anti union,
32:24
Speaker 4: whether they don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're
32:27
Speaker 4: rolling back DEI, or whether they you know, gave to
32:30
Speaker 4: the Republican Party or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard
32:34
Speaker 4: to try to do conscientious buying when you are stuck.
32:38
Speaker 4: And again, we talked about disabilities previously, about how it's
32:42
Speaker 4: also impossible, uh to not do delivery service for a
32:45
Speaker 4: lot of disabled people, even though like corporations like Amazon
32:48
Speaker 4: is awful, however they give access to those who can't
32:53
Speaker 4: go well, Like, it's such a hard conversation about what
32:56
Speaker 4: to do and how to truly support without hurting the
32:59
Speaker 4: people you're t find a support.
33:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal
33:06
Speaker 3: life as well, Like I am trying to boycott Target
33:12
Speaker 3: and Amazon. But you know, easy for me to say
33:16
Speaker 3: as an able bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right, Like,
33:21
Speaker 3: if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability,
33:24
Speaker 3: I don't regard to you anything that you got to
33:26
Speaker 3: do to get through the day. But I know that
33:28
Speaker 3: I personally do have some wiggle room, right, And so
33:31
Speaker 3: what's been interesting to me is I'm I wouldn't say
33:34
Speaker 3: I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However,
33:39
Speaker 3: I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play
33:43
Speaker 3: in my habits more generally, right, Like Amazon is a
33:47
Speaker 3: terrible company. They are terrible for the world in so
33:50
Speaker 3: many reasons. And Amazon's owner Jeff Bezos is incredibly buddy
33:55
Speaker 3: buddy with Trump. When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the
33:58
Speaker 3: whole line of tech, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live
34:02
Speaker 3: in DC, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where
34:08
Speaker 3: I get my healthcare, one medical he bought that. Jeff
34:11
Speaker 3: Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post. He owns that.
34:14
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods,
34:17
Speaker 3: he owns that. Like how much of my life does
34:20
Speaker 3: one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even
34:24
Speaker 3: about one specific policy, It's more that I am trying
34:28
Speaker 3: to reject that entire dynamic. And one way that I'm
34:31
Speaker 3: doing that on a small personal level is just trying
34:34
Speaker 3: to buy shop small, shop local, my local places when
34:39
Speaker 3: I can, and shop less in general, Like do I
34:42
Speaker 3: need to be consuming so much? Who is this supporting?
34:45
Speaker 3: Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go
34:48
Speaker 3: in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need.
34:50
Speaker 3: And so I don't think it has to be some
34:54
Speaker 3: kind of a big boycott necessarily you can just through
34:58
Speaker 3: small ways decide to know, I want to participate in
35:02
Speaker 3: this kind of like an economy less and less, and
35:04
Speaker 3: I just think that's true for so many people.
35:06
Speaker 4: Right, But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration
35:09
Speaker 4: and like as a whole who has the privilege to
35:12
Speaker 4: do that? You know, we talked about you and I
35:14
Speaker 4: and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places.
35:19
Speaker 4: I said, Annie has a dot dot dot because her
35:21
Speaker 4: car's getting there.
35:23
Speaker 1: Annie questioned, Mark, her handa is still running. Not a sponsor.
35:40
Speaker 4: This is kind of going off topic, and I do
35:42
Speaker 4: want to ask what your thoughts are because I've seen
35:45
Speaker 4: a few posts saying like February twenty eighth is a
35:48
Speaker 4: blackout day where people being told don't buy anything, don't
35:52
Speaker 4: consume anything. Let that be the day that no one
35:55
Speaker 4: buys things. If you can, are those things like are
35:57
Speaker 4: those things effective? Does that do where one day a
36:00
Speaker 4: lot more people do not consume and so therefore like
36:03
Speaker 4: kind of make a dip in that day? Are things
36:05
Speaker 4: like that a viable way of protesting some of these
36:09
Speaker 4: evil corporations?
36:11
Speaker 5: Oh?
36:11
Speaker 3: I think absolutely.
36:13
Speaker 5: So.
36:13
Speaker 3: It's funny that you bring this up because I was
36:14
Speaker 3: just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy lady
36:19
Speaker 3: was like three why's and they said the title of
36:23
Speaker 3: the post is to those saying boycotts won't work. From
36:25
Speaker 3: a former retail worker, and they write, I keep seeing
36:29
Speaker 3: misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work,
36:32
Speaker 3: No one cares, They'll be back at Target and no time.
36:34
Speaker 3: I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker.
36:36
Speaker 3: I've worked retail at four different chains, and I asked
36:38
Speaker 3: with other retail workers chime in. They absolutely have the
36:41
Speaker 3: ability to work because these businesses care way more about
36:44
Speaker 3: their numbers than the average consumer who has never worked
36:47
Speaker 3: retail realizes. When I was working for corporate owned women's
36:50
Speaker 3: clothing store, we could hourly updates about meeting our goals
36:53
Speaker 3: literally piped into our ears. Numbers got reported to the
36:56
Speaker 3: team daily. Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals
36:59
Speaker 3: and when we weren't. When we were pushed to sell, sell, sell,
37:01
Speaker 3: I was just a tiny little cog in the machine.
37:04
Speaker 3: But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me,
37:06
Speaker 3: imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about.
37:09
Speaker 3: I think that the February twenty eight economic boycott has
37:12
Speaker 3: the power to scare them. Why because I saw my
37:14
Speaker 3: direct managers upset over these numbers on an hourly basis.
37:18
Speaker 3: Please join the economic boycott on February twenty eighth. You know,
37:21
Speaker 3: money talks, which is why they are trying so hard
37:23
Speaker 3: to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it
37:25
Speaker 3: because it does matter. So that's just one retail worker's opinion.
37:30
Speaker 3: But I got to think that they're on the money
37:31
Speaker 3: with something because you know, especially in a time where
37:35
Speaker 3: we don't feel like we have a lot of power
37:37
Speaker 3: or a lot of agency or a lot of voice,
37:39
Speaker 3: our money, our spending power, our economic power really does
37:44
Speaker 3: have weight. Like that is power.
37:46
Speaker 2: Right.
37:47
Speaker 4: I'm glad you read that because I go back and
37:49
Speaker 4: forth on again understanding what is effective on what isn't,
37:54
Speaker 4: whether a boycott is or isn't effective, Who is able
37:56
Speaker 4: to do what and participate in who is being hurt
37:59
Speaker 4: by some of these protests of cause I don't give
38:02
Speaker 4: a about the corporation who know they're evil, I'm not
38:05
Speaker 4: talking about them in general, but like again, like the
38:07
Speaker 4: entrepreneurs who have products in these different companies that I've.
38:11
Speaker 1: Also seen them talk about Amazon, like.
38:12
Speaker 4: That does help with cells, It gives me money, like
38:15
Speaker 4: it gives us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again I'm
38:18
Speaker 4: not touting Amazon.
38:19
Speaker 1: I've paused my membership and all of that. I've done
38:21
Speaker 1: it because I.
38:22
Speaker 4: Was, like, I feel too dirty because I was depending
38:24
Speaker 4: on it so much, because I didn't want to go
38:25
Speaker 4: out to target and actually walk about and see people.
38:29
Speaker 4: But all of that in conversation of like, if this
38:32
Speaker 4: does work, then we need to be shouting it louder,
38:35
Speaker 4: because yeah, we want to at least be effective and
38:39
Speaker 4: doing the things as effectively as possible if we are
38:43
Speaker 4: able to do so, and being prepared for it. And honestly,
38:45
Speaker 4: outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I haven't seen
38:48
Speaker 4: much about it.
38:49
Speaker 3: Have y'all the economic blockout? Yeah I have, But I
38:56
Speaker 3: am like pretty deep into a lot of like buy
38:59
Speaker 3: nothing jam the cogs of capitalism in these small ways
39:03
Speaker 3: online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends
39:07
Speaker 3: who were like not in those spaces, if they're seeing
39:09
Speaker 3: any of it at all. People listening might be like,
39:11
Speaker 3: there's an economic boycott on February twenty.
39:13
Speaker 5: Eighth being planned.
39:15
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it.
39:16
Speaker 1: You haven't, So that's the question is, like how widely.
39:20
Speaker 4: Is it being spread? Hey, y'all, there's an economic blackout
39:24
Speaker 4: on the twenty eighth of February. If you're listening to
39:26
Speaker 4: this on the day is released, Yeah, the part we're podcasts.
39:31
Speaker 4: I don't know when this is going to be.
39:32
Speaker 3: So here's a little bit of information I just found. So,
39:35
Speaker 3: according to CBS, behind the boycott as a group called
39:38
Speaker 3: the People's Union USA, a self described grassroots organization founded
39:42
Speaker 3: by John Schwartz, a fifty seven year old dad from Queens,
39:45
Speaker 3: New York, who said that he's been promoting the consumer
39:47
Speaker 3: blackout for weeks on social media. The People's Union says
39:50
Speaker 3: it has no political affiliation, but focuses on quote fairness,
39:53
Speaker 3: economic justice, and real systemic change. So the call to action,
39:57
Speaker 3: or rather in action, is asking that American consumers refrain
40:01
Speaker 3: from making any purchases at major retailers on Friday, February
40:04
Speaker 3: twenty eighth. The protest comes as people continue to endure
40:08
Speaker 3: rising prices on everything from food to gas, to housing
40:10
Speaker 3: and new utilities, epitomized by the soaring cost of eggs,
40:13
Speaker 3: which in January averaged four to ninety five a dozen.
40:17
Speaker 5: So, yeah, that is the information. If you're interested in participating.
40:20
Speaker 3: You can go online and find out more, but I
40:23
Speaker 3: understand because like again, like it for me, it's really
40:27
Speaker 3: not about any one policy or store. It's like I
40:32
Speaker 3: do not want to continue to participate in an economic
40:35
Speaker 3: system that just continues to exploit me. And I understand that,
40:39
Speaker 3: Like we're in capitalism, so what am I gonna do?
40:41
Speaker 3: But like I can do in small ways, I can
40:44
Speaker 3: opt out of that system more and more, like I've
40:46
Speaker 3: been really you know, it's it sounds so small and stupid,
40:51
Speaker 3: and in some ways I understand that it is. But
40:53
Speaker 3: like I've been growing herbs on my balcony, so when
40:56
Speaker 3: I need fresh herbs, I'm not running to Target. I
40:59
Speaker 3: just have them on my balcony. I've been cooking more
41:01
Speaker 3: at home. I've been like, rather than going on and
41:03
Speaker 3: buying new stuff, I'm like using free groups and like
41:07
Speaker 3: you know things like that, of like I just want
41:09
Speaker 3: to participate in this economy less and less because it
41:12
Speaker 3: is just so exploitative, right, And just.
41:17
Speaker 4: Coming back on track onto all the information that you
41:21
Speaker 4: are bringing us, like this is that conversation once again
41:24
Speaker 4: when I come back in the confused era of like
41:26
Speaker 4: DEI and why it's so offensive to people and why
41:29
Speaker 4: they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.
41:34
Speaker 3: Well, you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful, and
41:37
Speaker 3: that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like
41:42
Speaker 3: Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly,
41:46
Speaker 3: Costco exists in that same environment and guess what, they
41:49
Speaker 3: didn't cave on anything.
41:50
Speaker 5: So to be.
41:51
Speaker 3: Super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEI
41:54
Speaker 3: and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do.
41:56
Speaker 3: It is profitable. It makes companies money, you know, just
42:00
Speaker 3: like that Target executive saying that supporting inclusion in twenty
42:02
Speaker 3: twenty made the company money. Being able to cast a
42:05
Speaker 3: wide net when you're doing things like hiring and being
42:08
Speaker 3: able to attract all different kinds of people who want
42:10
Speaker 3: to spend money with your brand is good business. So
42:14
Speaker 3: Costco got approached by the Trump administration and was trying
42:19
Speaker 3: to be They were trying to pressure Costco into dropping
42:21
Speaker 3: their DEI programs, and Costco basically was like, no, our
42:24
Speaker 3: programs are fine, y'all can kick rocks. Nineteen attorneys general
42:29
Speaker 3: led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, which by the way,
42:32
Speaker 3: he's a real piece of work. Google him if you've
42:35
Speaker 3: got a Sabera minut, because he's a real piece of work.
42:37
Speaker 3: And Iowa Attorney General Brenna BirdAir are currently trying to
42:41
Speaker 3: pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco
42:44
Speaker 3: a letter saying, with three hundred thousand employees, Costco likely
42:49
Speaker 3: has at least two hundred thousand employees who are potentially
42:51
Speaker 3: victims of a legal discrimination because they are white, Asian
42:54
Speaker 3: mail or straight. Even if only a fraction of those
42:56
Speaker 3: employees were to file suit and only some of these
42:58
Speaker 3: proof successful, the cost to Costco could be tens of
43:01
Speaker 3: billions of dollars. So that's like pretty clearly a threat
43:06
Speaker 3: to essentially extort Costco. Costco's board's response was, our board
43:11
Speaker 3: has considered this proposal and believe that our commitment to
43:14
Speaker 3: an enterprise rooted in respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary.
43:18
Speaker 3: The report requested by this proposal would not provide meaningful
43:21
Speaker 3: additional information to our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously
43:25
Speaker 3: recommends a vote against this proposal.
43:30
Speaker 4: First of all, I hate that they included as but
43:33
Speaker 4: I know they do, but like I'm still like, ah,
43:35
Speaker 4: it's not that. But all these things I will say
43:39
Speaker 4: on a good note because there was a moment where
43:41
Speaker 4: I was iffy with Costco for a split second. I
43:43
Speaker 4: was like, I can't go nowhere because there had an
43:46
Speaker 4: almost union strike. However, before it could go down, Costco
43:51
Speaker 4: followed the lead and actually worked with the unionized members
43:55
Speaker 4: and gave them the raises that they deserved.
43:57
Speaker 1: So kudos. It worked out.
43:59
Speaker 4: It took a little pressuring, but I'm glad to know
44:01
Speaker 4: that they're not anti union, so that is a plus
44:05
Speaker 4: BT dubs, because that's one of the big questions. Like
44:07
Speaker 4: the last five years, I feel like I've just seen
44:10
Speaker 4: more and more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's
44:14
Speaker 4: anti union, and I'm like, why do you have to
44:15
Speaker 4: be so mean to your people's But like seeing that
44:19
Speaker 4: they were able to actually be on top of it
44:21
Speaker 4: is nice, nicest, not on top of it, but finally
44:24
Speaker 4: like understanding everything from every aspect. It felt like, Okay,
44:29
Speaker 4: maybe I need to buy a freezer from them so
44:31
Speaker 4: I can store the large amounts of food that they sell.
44:35
Speaker 3: I mean, I find there one dollar fifty cents hot
44:38
Speaker 3: dogs delightful and my late father rest his soul. He
44:42
Speaker 3: loved to brag about how you could return anything to
44:44
Speaker 3: Costco for cash no matter what. He was like a
44:47
Speaker 3: real abuser of that policy.
44:50
Speaker 1: You know what I do, what you gotta do.
44:53
Speaker 3: And you know, am I saying this because I think
44:55
Speaker 3: that like Costco is some like idealist crusader. Ally I'm
44:59
Speaker 3: sure they're vorable in a million other ways, But I
45:02
Speaker 3: think that they are a company that likes making money,
45:05
Speaker 3: and they have done the math and they have probably
45:08
Speaker 3: realized that their DEI and inclusion policies help them make money.
45:13
Speaker 3: And it seems like, honestly, I have to say like,
45:15
Speaker 3: it does seem like Target is experiencing some financial consequences here.
45:19
Speaker 3: To be clear, retail shopping is down generally in part
45:22
Speaker 3: I think because of things like inflation and rising prices
45:25
Speaker 3: and economic uncertainty and like changing consumer habits. But Target
45:30
Speaker 3: and Walmart both saw their retail numbers fall in the
45:33
Speaker 3: wake of pulling their DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again,
45:37
Speaker 3: I don't specifically know if this is because of the
45:39
Speaker 3: boycott or because of DEI, but this is according to
45:42
Speaker 3: retail brew foot traffic is down at Target stores. According
45:46
Speaker 3: to data from placer Ai prepared exclusively for retail brew
45:50
Speaker 3: In the week that began January twenty seven, foot traffic
45:52
Speaker 3: fell four percent, then fell eight point six percent the
45:56
Speaker 3: week beginning February third, and three point nine percent the
45:59
Speaker 3: week beginning February tenth. This was the first drop in
46:01
Speaker 3: traffic this year for Target, with foot traffic for the
46:04
Speaker 3: first four weeks of twenty twenty five up between five
46:07
Speaker 3: percent and eleven point eight percent.
46:09
Speaker 5: Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise
46:14
Speaker 5: for the same three week period, up by five point
46:16
Speaker 5: eight percent on the week beginning January twenty seven, five
46:19
Speaker 5: point seven percent on the week beginning February third, and
46:21
Speaker 5: four point six percent on the week beginning February tenth.
46:25
Speaker 5: So is this the result of like people boycotting Target,
46:29
Speaker 5: not going to Target, you know, not wanting to shop
46:32
Speaker 5: at places that have these kinds of policies.
46:34
Speaker 3: I don't know.
46:35
Speaker 5: But what I do know is that women have money.
46:38
Speaker 3: In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are
46:42
Speaker 3: being made by women. Black people have money, Queer people
46:46
Speaker 3: have money, trans people have money. We spend money. We
46:49
Speaker 3: have real economic power. And I think all of us
46:51
Speaker 3: really have to understand that. And like understand what that means,
46:54
Speaker 3: that it matters where we put our money, it matters
46:58
Speaker 3: who we choose to financially support, and like, and I
47:01
Speaker 3: agree with that person's comment on Reddit that like the
47:04
Speaker 3: fact that they keep trying to convince us that it's
47:06
Speaker 3: not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a signal to
47:08
Speaker 3: all of us that it actually does.
47:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, with all the misinformation and disinformation that
47:15
Speaker 4: we get, it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people would
47:18
Speaker 4: want us to think this doesn't work so that we
47:19
Speaker 4: would stop doing it.
47:22
Speaker 3: Exactly.
47:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, no, I you haven't hurt me at all,
47:28
Speaker 2: And secretly they're getting those numbers. Oh no, Yeah, Yeah,
47:37
Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know,
47:40
Speaker 2: I know for a lot of us, US and our listeners,
47:45
Speaker 2: it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways
47:48
Speaker 2: we can make these changes in this system, and there's
47:52
Speaker 2: so many different factors to it. But yeah, I definitely
47:55
Speaker 2: where you put your money and who you choose to
47:57
Speaker 2: support with your money, that's a big one. That's a
48:01
Speaker 2: big one, very.
48:02
Speaker 3: Important, especially now like this is the tapic And again
48:07
Speaker 3: just I think I've said this, but I want to
48:09
Speaker 3: pay it clearly, like easy for me to say, I
48:11
Speaker 3: am a I'm not a parent. I live in an
48:13
Speaker 3: easily walkable community, you know, I am able bodied, like
48:18
Speaker 3: easy for me to say. But like if you're someone
48:20
Speaker 3: for who that is the case, you can, you can,
48:22
Speaker 3: you know, be choosy about how and where you spend
48:25
Speaker 3: your money. Not everybody has that luxury. And if you
48:27
Speaker 3: are somebody who's listening who does, that's great, Like we
48:29
Speaker 3: should be the people who are making those kinds of decisions.
48:33
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Bridget. We're so
48:39
Speaker 2: happy to have you back on. It was so good
48:42
Speaker 2: to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you?
48:45
Speaker 3: Ah, this has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the
48:49
Speaker 3: s with you all. And if you want to shoot
48:53
Speaker 3: the s with me, you can listen to my podcast
48:55
Speaker 3: or our girls on the internet or follow me on
48:57
Speaker 3: Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.
48:59
Speaker 2: Yes, yes and go do that listeners, And if you
49:03
Speaker 2: would like to contact us you can you can email
49:05
Speaker 2: us at hello at Stuffwenever Told You dot com. You
49:07
Speaker 2: can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
49:09
Speaker 2: or in Instagram and TikTok at stuff w Never Told You.
49:12
Speaker 2: We're also on YouTube we have tea public store, and
49:14
Speaker 2: we have a book you can get wherever you get
49:15
Speaker 2: your books. Thanks as always to you our super producer Coustenior,
49:17
Speaker 2: Exective Producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
49:19
Speaker 1: Thank you.
49:20
Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening stuff I never told you
49:22
Speaker 2: the production of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
49:23
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49:25
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