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She's Doin' A Lot of Research! (RHOC Cancergate Part 2) · Mention It All Again

• Blake: ⁓ If you guys are watching I hope you really like that because Casey put a lot of time and effort and love Into that intro we figured y'all wanted something more interesting to watch as our 40 second intro song plays I mean we We tried the dancing thing, but to be honest, it's exhausting. It's a 40 seconds I mean and I I was thinking like maybe I'll ask my friend Casey: Ha! You've seen enough of us, so we'll get rid of us for a sec. Blake: who made that for us. Shout out Angel, thank you for that lovely intro song. But I was like, maybe I'll ask like for a shorter one. But then I was like, I kind of think every second is extremely important. Casey: Thank you so much. And I was thinking that too when I was making the edit, was like, low key, like, yeah, I don't have enough dance moves in my arsenal for 40 seconds every week. Like I'm not that talented, but you know when you're watching like a good show intro, like the White Lotus intro, like I play that whole thing, even, no, but it doesn't matter how long it is. And that's what I imagine our podcast is evoking in the audience as well. Blake: Exactly. Exactly. I actually have received word from several sources that they have been absolutely losing their goddamn minds every time it comes on. Right? I mean, many people have been saying, are saying, ⁓ welcome to Mention It All Again. My name is Blake and I'm here with my Dazzling co-host, Casey. Casey: heard the same. Hey! Blake: How, how, how have we been this week, Casey? Did you know, I need to ask you, it's actually breaking news, but Carol Radzowill is going to be a friend of on the new, ⁓ phony, I mean, rony, ⁓ reboot of the reboot that they have now, like, Erin, Sy, and Jessel, and then three new ladies, and now Carol is a friend of... What do you think about all that? And did you watch the- Casey: breaking. Uh-huh. Blake: the two reboot seasons to begin with. Casey: Yeah, so I watched season one of the reboot and then I did not tune back in for there's only two, right? Two seasons. I didn't watch the second season. ⁓ And I don't I don't even think with the announcement of of Madame Rad's will that I'll be watching this third season. ⁓ I'm just not really interested. I think it's hard to replicate. Blake: Yeah. Casey: ⁓ a vibe in New York when you have an unprecedented kind of group that is impossible to recreate. they should have, this show could have worked if they just called it something else and didn't try to make this the Real Housewives of New York, but I don't think it can work like this. Blake: Yeah, I agree. feel like, you know how they have like ladies of London and then Real Housewives of London? I feel like, and this was what they were always saying in the press, is that like, they were like, you know, we are feeling like big shoes. And I do think, like, I don't think that many of those women are interesting. I'll put that out there, but I also don't think it was fair to set them up the way they were set up. Casey: Yes, exactly. Yeah, definitely. Blake: because people have an expectation and they're just very different people with very different lives. However, they also don't want to be interesting. They don't want to fight. They don't want to share the interesting parts of their lives. They don't want to cause drama. So it's also partially on them. But if it was just like, I don't know, like ladies who lunch and that's what it was, I would be like. Casey: Right. Yeah, whatever you want to call it, like the next next, not next gen, we have next gen, the middle gen, the middle gen, the not our our Rony Golden Girls, not our next gen NYC, but but I guess we have Summerhouse for that. So Blake: Yes, Jen. Right. Maybe like real girlfriends of New York. You know they did real girlfriends of Paris and that flopped. But I feel like realistically, I mean I've said it fucking before, I'll say it again, I'll say it till my face gets red. I mean my nose is already red, why not? But I just think they should have gotten rid of a couple of them. Like kept two or three and then Casey: Mm-hmm. Blake: Cast women that made sense to join the cast but like reinvigorate the dynamic without killing it entirely Which is what they've always done when things get stale. So I just feel like they didn't know what they were fucking doing But are you going to be watching the golden life on e? Casey: Yeah. I haven't fully decided. I do think that I'm gonna tune in to see what's going on, at least to start. Especially now that... We don't have Jill included, which would have created like a moral conundrum, but I guess so does watching Ramona anyways. So like you're kind of like at an impasse either way. I just, I feel such a deep kinship with Luan. Like I just, I don't physically know if there can be a show on with her in it that I can't watch. Like I think I have to watch it. Blake: Yeah, I think that I've thought about this too because I I'm pretty much like of the mindset that I think like we do ourselves a disservice when we like try to judge housewives on their politics or Like certain I think general reality TV figures like where they're not really engaging in politics on their show and then we say like ⁓ you know, they I think there was like Jen Pedranti from Orange County went to like a country music bar and I think like some country music artist who's a racist I think like was performing there or something and so people were like ⁓ you know like we have to cancel her or whatever and I was like well we know that Orange County is really conservative the fact that she's a conservative isn't that crazy Casey: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, Jason Aldean, I think. Blake: You know, like unless she does something more like overt I feel like you can't otherwise you're never gonna have the whole point of reality TV is that these are people that you probably wouldn't actually want to interact with there are people who make shockingly terrible decisions have shockingly terrible opinions and that's why it's like watching a car crash happen in front of you. It's not that you're condoning the behavior, but with Ramona it gets to a place where it's like and Jill's there and it gets to a place where it's like I'm beyond just generally kind of Casey: Yeah. Blake: vaguely knowing you're a conservative. Now I'm like, you've said the N-word to a black producer, you've posted, you know, pro-MAGA stuff that like, is just, like she doesn't, the mask is off. So it's kind of like, now at this point, do I want to be like, haha, I'll just ignore that. Now I'm like, you've told us exactly what you think, and it's bad. Casey: Yeah. I feel the same way, like obviously it's not ideal. Like I would love it if everybody in the whole goddamn world shared my views because I tend to think that my views are our best as most do, but that's obviously not gonna be the case. So with the housewives that are representing. Blake: Right. Casey: in most cases, the wealthy elite who are not often empathetic and considerate. I think as long as you can shut up and not be posting and saying very offensive things with the platform you have, then I'm not gonna be mad at you. mean, we can only do so much. There are so many celebrities that have horrible views and are horrible people that they just don't make it so obvious and we all just say, Blake: Yeah. Right. Casey: then I'll watch your movies, I'll listen to your song, like whatever. Just keep it, keep it to yourself, don't hurt other people. Blake: Right. Yeah, well speaking of reality TV personalities who have horrible opinions, let's dive back into Real Housewives of Orange County, season 10, Cancer Gate, part two of our deep dive. ⁓ Why don't you set the stage for where we left off, Casey: Woohoo! Yeah, we finished towards the end of the season, getting ready to set up with the last few episodes in the reunion. where the group is at and where the cast is at is definitely, we're at a tipping point regarding Brooks' cancer and Vicky's relationship with the women is... pretty much at an all time low with almost everyone, particularly Shannon, who she has gotten into the most arguments at this point. I mean, besides Megan, who's obviously public enemy number one, but just kind of finished up there with them, them not being in a good place and Shannon letting her know the full extent of everyone's on your ass, basically. Blake: Yeah, I think that Vicky is particularly mad, unfairly so, at Shannon because I think that she expected Shannon, of all people, to just have unwavering loyalty. And even though Shannon was extremely loyal at the beginning, I think the fact that Shannon didn't just continue to buy into everything, that hurt her more than the people that she didn't expect that from, questioning her. Casey: Yeah, she definitely had more smoke with Shannon than she did for anybody else... by far. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I mean, I I don't think it was fair. And I also think that, I mean, well, she, she admits later in this, in the, the reunion that she lied about certain things. So it's like to, to be mad at someone for calling you out on your lies that you also know you're lying about. It's like, that's okay. That's a healthy friendship, but for, right. Um, Casey: for accurately assessing the situation at hand. Blake: So why don't we get into, ⁓ Lenka the health coach and Dr. Zermino. Why don't we talk about Brooks's appointment? Casey: Right, so like while things are getting worse, Vicky and Brooks are still continuing to show little bits and pieces. It's almost like they're like saying like, yeah, you can't have our medical records, but you can have this footage of us with Lenka the health coach, like going to meet a doctor. Like, no, you cannot have proof that I'm in chemo, but here, come record us at this hokey doctor. I mean, sorry, Dr. Zermino, but it didn't look, it doesn't look like a totally reputable establishment. No. Blake: You It's not, it's not, it's not cancer, doctor. That's the issue. Like I'm sure they do great acupuncture, but that's not for cancer. Casey: Right, so Lenka, who we've seen a couple of times throughout the season, Lenka's the blonde, beautiful health coach that is telling Brooks to do coffee enemas and not have Latino bread. ⁓ But she sets them up a meeting with this doctor, Dr. Zermino, and he is not, like Blake said, is not a cancer doctor, is not an oncologist. He's branded as someone who does a little bit of Western medicine and a little bit more like unconventional practices. Blake: I believe actually that his billing, like his name card that they flashed, ⁓ I think it said health coach and family practitioner. And then they later specified he specializes in detoxifying the body. ⁓ And Vicky says, you know, they've been really starving Brooks's cancer. I don't know what that means. ⁓ And in the context of this appointment, ⁓ Well, what they're doing is, number one, they're looking at the fake report that they showed Tamra. And Vicky and Brooks are both like, can you believe our friends don't think he has cancer? And then the doctor's looking at this report where every letter is part of one entire long word. There's no spaces whatsoever. And he's like, Casey: just couldn't look more fake. Blake: He's like, this cannot lie. Cancer cannot lie. This wouldn't be real if you were lying. It's like, well that's the point. It's not. It's just simply not. Casey: Like, Dr. Zermino, I wish you hadn't said that on camera because anyone who was thinking about coming to you is no longer thinking about coming to you after that. He's like, yes, this is obvious proof of cancer, y'all. Like, we're good here. Blake: And then, and then they're like, well, so this was the, this was the part where it was like, wait, what's like happening? Because so we're told that he has a blood cancer. Like that's what lim, whatever the fuck it was, lymphoma, something. But then, then now we're, the doctor's pushing in his abdomen and he's like, he's got a 14 centimeter mass in his abdomen. Like he's feeling him up and stuff. And I'm like, so how does that happen? Casey: Yeah. The end. Pew! Blake: from the blood cancer. don't, I like, I'm no ⁓ oncologist, but that feels like a different thing, personally. Casey: Yeah, we're getting messy into the details here. I was honestly just most struck by who are these health care professionals that are agreeing to be on camera for this man? Again, I can't imagine there was a boom in business for Lenka or Dr. Z. ⁓ And hey, they're both appearing to still be in business in the Orange County area. If anyone is needing their services, I did a quick little Google search. You can get... your first consultation with Coach Lenka for free. So not sponsored, Lenka just wanted to give you a little plug in there. ⁓ But yeah, it looks like they've made it through the Brooks scam, even though, yeah, both of them don't look so great with this footage. Blake: Well, if you think about the fact that Shannon has Dr. Moon, who is always doing some, you know, it's like Eastern medicine, and I'm sure that actually works for conditions that aren't cancer. But I feel like Orange County, white women especially, are like, ⁓ give it to me. But hear what they're doing, which, don't understand how this works or what it would even be for. Obviously it's not for cancer, but they are literally just taking blood out of him. Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Blake: putting oxygen into his blood and then putting it back into his body. So, you know, you're watching this and you're just like, okay, sure. Like what, like, like it's that, right. We can't see your records, but, but you know, we can see your, the, the, getting deoxygenated and then reoxygenated and like that's supposed to make everyone feel like, he's taking this seriously guys. Sure, sure. Casey: Yeah, literally okay. Right. And this scan that they show there to doctors or Mino that they come with, like he has it and is like, here, can take a look at my most recent scans. They decide that they are comfortable showing these scans to Tamara and Tamara alone. So they have Tamara come over to the house to check them out and kind of take a look-see ⁓ at the report. And then they say, and once you look, you can tell the women that all is good, but we don't want to show everybody. Blake: Right. It's very much like a... We are basically like anointing you to be our soldier in this war. Like, we're giving you the records. ⁓ You know. They say it's because Tamra is Vicky's oldest friend. ⁓ It doesn't really make sense though, because... Just show the record to everyone? Why, like... Casey: Yeah. Right, and they clock this, like I'm pretty sure they either now or later suggest that there was something a little off about them choosing one person, which obviously that's off because why would you not just share it with everybody? But Shannon knows all these other doctors. Heather's husband is a doctor. Megan King Edmonds has been spending her every waking hour researching this cause. So you have to imagine there's a reason they choose Tamara who has been actually the most low key about the whole thing to. Blake: She's unemployed. Casey: to Vicky's face and really behind her back honestly before Shannon got pissed off. So it kind of seems like maybe they're choosing Tamra because they're expecting the path of least resistance with Tamra. Blake: Yeah, and ⁓ when she is looking at the record, this is like the... It's like, I feel like every single step of this process, it's like, okay, fine, you know, we'll show you the record. And then they show the record and it's like, all right, I can tell you five things that are going on here that make this seem forged. And we have... It's... So if you're listening, basically, like the PET scan, you know, you don't have to know anything about a PET scan, but basically it's a paper and it's like findings, report, whatever, and the findings, all of the words are just together as if spacebar never existed. And you're wondering what professional is signing off on that as a report. And then you're also wondering, okay, so... Casey: Just Blake: He forged this and just thought these women were stupid enough to... Like why would you... Why would you... Could you not figure out how to format this on Microsoft Word? Casey: Right, and we've asked this question before, you and I, because if you're gonna lie about having cancer, why not tighten up the screws a little bit before you start handing out your documents? Like, ⁓ maybe before I show this, I should just make sure that every word has a space in between it. Like, it feels like a basic level of like, that'll probably help my case, like if I want them to believe this. But no, we're good on that. Blake: Right. Yeah. It's definitely like one of the foundational elements of ⁓ communication they teach you very early on when you're, you know, first learning in kindergarten how to read and write, they definitely tell you, so words have to be separated. Otherwise it doesn't look like a word. So. Casey: But for some reason he's like, no, we're good here, I think. And he tells her, ⁓ yeah, no, no, no. Of course, it is weird, it's all smushed together. He doesn't even say there was a printing error. He's just like, no, no, no, no, no. It's just how it is. And Tamara's like, all righty, why are you only showing this to me? Why not have everyone here? And she's right, and also this is on camera. Why not have everybody there anyways? Because. Blake: Right. Casey: Everyone's gonna see it. It wasn't like it was an off-camera meeting like why it just doesn't make any sense Blake: Right. Okay, that's a good point actually because I feel like there are times just generally in Housewives where they will be acting like something is a secret or something is like a clandestine meeting or something and I'm like, you know, this is gonna air eventually. Casey: I think the same thing in this season. ⁓ We'll get to it in a bit, but Shannon gets mad at Vicky telling someone like about her, ⁓ what she's going through in her marriage. And I'm like, but you revealed it on this season. Like it's about to go nationwide anyways. Like it's just, doesn't really, I think they like forget. don't, it feels like a weird like dissonance between, know, you're on this show. Like, yeah, I don't really understand it either. Blake: right. It feels like a game. It almost feels like it's like, okay, we obviously need like to keep up the charade and obviously we need to have like natural reactions to things. So like let's pretend like you are just going behind my back even though we all know this is literally being filmed. Like it's it's it's we can have a conversation about this like on a different episode. I think it's so interesting to think about the psychology of filming a show that's supposed to be Casey: Yes. ⁓ True. Blake: Simulating real relationships, but there's so many elements to it that just aren't and that affects how you think about things I think it'd be so interesting to do like an analysis on that with like an episode that makes sense. But anyway Moving the fuck along Casey: Yeah. We digress, yeah. But before we get to like, there's another group event that they get to right after this where we have some key, key moments into where the story goes. But one thing I did want to see if you also were interested in, there's like a cut scene. It's probably not more than like a minute or so, but Brooks is taking his daily medicine and it is. He says 40 plus pills daily like he verbatim says I take 40 plus pills daily and they have this little like dish sitting on them on their dining room table that has like Probably 20 plus pills on it and Brooks is asking Vicki. Can you can you come sit with me? Well, well, I'll take my pills And what is going on? Why do you have all these unnamed pills just on a on a Petri dish on your counter and? Blake: Riot. Casey: Is that, is that correct? I don't know anyone who's ever taken that many pills in my lifetime. Like, he's just taking like vitamin B from the grocery store and acting like it's like, acting like it's actual medicine. Blake: Whoa. It's all vitamins. That's what I was gonna say. It's all like if you look at the the capsule that's all like powdery like bullshit like unmarked It doesn't it doesn't have that like pharmaceutical like white and green or like white and red and I'm like he's fully just taking like like like Magnesia milk or something bullshit like that and he's like this is supposed to this you know what this does it actually pile drives the cancer inside of my gut and it's like Who told you like you are you are literally making that? That's not true Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah! You know, it's like when you're sick and you just start throwing anything at the body to see if it'll help, you're like, ⁓ my God, orange juice. like emergency. Yeah, that's what he's doing with this. He's like. Blake: Yup. Chicken noodle soup, zinc, vitamin, vitamin C. Yeah, like, like, everything in the fucking cabinet. But I'm sorry, also, it's like, it's like, just because, like, again, 40, okay, like, he's, he's like, he's like, that's like what a child would think about, like, how to solve cancer, is like, as much as you can put in your body. If I were him, I would be, I would just be fully forging, like, chemo capsules or whatever the fuck you- Casey: Mm-hmm. Blake: you're supposed to take and making it look real. Casey: Right, I'd be Googling what is medicine for cancer patient. I'd Google the top hit. I'd look up what color it is. I'd get that pill and be like, here it is y'all, like curing myself, even though I don't even think that's a thing with the pill, like whatever. But yeah. Blake: Right. I- yeah, well anyway, we don't know, but it's just- it was just like, and Vicky's gagging, she hates pills, ⁓ which like, you know, good luck, you're dating a man who takes 40 of them. But, ⁓ yeah, I did notice that. And I- for sure, cause I take, like, I don't take 40, but I do take vitamins in the morning, and like, they all, like, don't- they don't look like medicine, you know what I mean? Like, that- that's not medicine. That's my professional opinion, but moving along to- this was the- So Heather, if one of her side quests this season is that she and- Terry are, it's like a skincare line, I think, like an anti-aging skincare line they're doing. Casey: Yeah, they're marketing like some type of face stuff or like cream or something for middle-aged women. Blake: Heather like randomly dipped her toe in the like QVC housewife kind of like crossover hosting thing. So they're like hosting a QVC segment for their product, She and Terry, and the women, Megan, Shannon, and Tamra, get together to watch their friends hawk her products. And this is one of those moments where it's like, how? How did this happen? Like is this like production or is this just one of those like or is or is Brooks just really bad at this but it's like ⁓ they're listing the ingredients to their health to their skincare and Then Terry goes and you know, it also has this really great antioxidant resveratrol, which is supposed to help with with anti-aging and I was like Didn't Brooks just say he's gonna blast his body with that to kill the cancer Casey: I know. Blake: because that's what that one doctor said and now we're talking about it's just anti-aging and it's like in a skincare product. So take a look. Casey: Shannon's po- Whoa! The smoking gun has been found! Blake: Respirator! They were like kids watching they were like kids watching TV like with me which well like but but that's what I'm talking about It was one of those things where it was like I'm surprised Heather wasn't like on QVC going away Casey: Well, that's why in my head I'm like, either. Heather is kind of selling herself out here because she just doesn't gaffe about this product or had no idea what she was going to sell. Because how did that not come up? Like, ⁓ he's doing that. That's the main ingredient in my skincare. Because she probably has no goddamn clue what's in that product until she gets there on the stage because it's not their thing. it's just funny. The women are trying to just have a non-investigative party just to support Heather in theory, a nice event that Vicky just can't come to. It's not meant to be something else. Blake: right? She has no idea. Casey: But it brings us right back to the central drama. So yeah, it could be a little bit of like interference of let's make sure we record this commercial because he's gonna say, Rose Veritrol or whatnot. And maybe that's why we had the viewing party set up and all that good stuff. yeah, they call in, they like mess with Heather. It's all very classless, honestly. I was like, honestly, fire the Dubros. They're not running a very efficient commercial here. But, oh, I have some... Blake: Yeah Right. I Well I mean, I think they probably did get fired because I never saw them on QVC again. Not that they need the job, I mean. Casey: ⁓ there you go. No, but Megan... decides to, as always, bridge the resveratrol coming up into some updates on her research project. she's like, she tells the women, ⁓ I actually called Newport Imaging. You know, she loves to call. She's working away. She's a busy lady. She calls Newport Imaging and is like, do you guys do PET CT scans for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma? And they're like, no, sis, it's been years since we've done that. Blake: She loves to call. Casey: over, I think, like five plus years. It's been a while. Blake: I think they said since 2008 they stopped. And this was like 10, almost 10 years ago, yeah. Casey: Right. Which this season was probably... Blake: Yeah, like eight, seven, that was quick. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she says like basically I called them and then Shannon. Casey: A very- it's been a really long time. Too long for there to be a lingering scan that he would have gotten. ⁓ Blake: You're just You're getting a lot of research that's not adding up and she does her like ninja like fruit ninja hands or she's like I just it's all and it's it's going and I don't know what to and I it's like but honestly like that's the crazy thing is even Megan King Edmund saying I Called Newport imaging they don't do that type of scan that Brooks tried to show Tamar cuz that's how it came up cuz Tamar was like Casey: It's a lot of research. Always. Blake: I saw the scan and it was kinda weird and then Megan was like, they don't even fucking do that kind of scan. Which is funny because I'm like, how did she know to call and ask that? Casey: Yeah, it's a lot. She's as always is doing a lot. She's... Blake: She's doing a lot, but thank God for it, you know, thank God. But anyway, yeah, so they don't do that. And I guess they had said like, I don't know, whatever. Basically, they don't do it anymore. And that's what I was gonna say is it's crazy because Vicky was so mad at Shannon for not defending her. Even at this point when Megan is like, I called them and they said they don't do that, which... It's like, okay, that is like, you're caught red-handed. Shannon is still like, things aren't making sense. I'm not sure. It's a lot for me to, she's like not willing to just be like, they're lying, you know? And Vicky has the audacity to be like the most upset with Shannon. She is trying to spin all of this somehow to be in their favor. Like she's not ready to jump ship yet. So, Vicky, Vicky, Vicky, Vicky. Casey: Yeah. I know it's it's sad honestly because like you can watch you can see Shannon trying to hold on to like any type of like defense or moment that she can use to say Vicky doesn't know about this or this is wrong you know the the women are wrong and not only does that she not find that evidence because they're right but Vicky doesn't give her any any grace gives her all the anger it's almost like she like directs her anger at the whole situation mostly on Shannon rather than anybody else. And Shannon says this like at the party, that's kind of how we like leave it, you know, at the QVC viewing party. Shannon's bothered that Vicky didn't show the documents to her and ask her to be their advocate to the group, considering that Shannon has been that the entire time. She thinks, seems like I should get the nod of the special document reader, but she doesn't, so she's annoyed. And I think rightfully so, I would definitely be annoyed. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Casey: I'm Blake: But then that's when they all kind of realized, we think that you showed it to Tamara, because Tamara doesn't know how to read medical records, Heather's husband is a doctor, Shannon ⁓ goes to get CAT scans all the time, apparently, at this one place, or at, like, Hogue or whatever the fuck, City of Hope, and then Megan, you know, is click-click-clacking all day, plus... Casey: Right. Mm-hmm. Blake: She's married to a man whose ex is dying of cancer. So if you really like if you really put the pieces together, it's like let's show Tamara who is a fucking moron in their minds. I think Tamara's a smart woman for the record. Moving on. So then we get Brianna cameo. Brianna. Casey: Right. Yeah. Brianna's in town, she's touchdown in the OC for a little visit and we get her here. Blake: By the way, I think we need to say, which is crazy, but if you don't know who Branna is, it's Vicky's daughter. I just feel like, just in case we have that one listener who's like, I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, but I'm living, like we should tell you, that's Vicky's daughter. She's visiting, yep, she's visiting from Oklahoma. Her husband is like in the Marines or something, so they have to live in Oklahoma. But she's visiting in town, and Vicky actually, oddly enough, told Tamara, I want you to meet and talk with. Casey: Yes. Yeah, the goddamn queen is in town. Blake: with Brianna because Vicky was upset that Brianna doesn't like Brooks and was hoping that Tamra could make that change, which is really funny because they end up just sitting down and both kiki-ing over the fact that they hate Brooks. So yeah, they go to lunch. And the first thing that we find out is that Brianna found out that Brooks was moving into the house, her childhood home. ⁓ via a video that was posted online where Vicky was talking about it and was like, if Brianna doesn't know now, now she does, cause I'm talking about it, which I... Casey: is not great and Brianna says this, she's like, this is not great, I did not love that and nothing in this world could ever make me like this man. He has irrevocably changed my relationship with my mother, my home, my hometown, it's really just not a good situation and then she both took Tamra and she gets her own confessional moment as she should, she kind of reveals that Brooks has said, things to her that she doesn't like. ⁓ And what she says is, at this point we find out that Brooks has said to her husband, like, you should start hitting Brianna. Like, you should discipline her. And she tells Tamara this and talks about it in this episode and, you know, kind of gives that context of this alone is enough for me to never, never warm up to him. And Tamara's like, yeah, like, tea. Blake: Yeah. Well, and also Brianna has children, like very, very, very young children. So she like, the fact that she's staying, she came to visit, she's staying in the house means that like she's avoiding Brooks. Like they don't ever hang out, she hates him, she's not comfortable with him around her children. Fair enough, because we also, ⁓ we find that out at the reunion, we'll get into that later. But he just, so like basically Brianna's just like, I fucking hate that guy. There's a flashback of her in a previous episode where Vicky's visiting her in Oklahoma and she's quoted as saying, has no car, he has no house, he has no job, he has no nothing, who the fuck is this guy? And you know what? Which is what you said and you also added no cancer and it's like you don't even have the thing that's supposed to make people sympathetic for you, sir, respectfully. So yeah, she doesn't want her children around him. She does not fuck with him. Casey: Right, which is what I said. Come on. Blake: We find out that, so Tamra tells Brianna, like, I saw this record that seemed weird and Brianna is a nurse, that's important context. She's ⁓ an emergency room nurse. And if you remember from our last episode, Brianna, at the very beginning of the season, we found out she never thought he had cancer because that's not what a cancer patient looks like or acts like. So we find out here that Brooks had apparently claimed to have pancreatic cancer. Like early on when Brianna met him, when they started dating. Casey: Right, like originally, like one of his first bouts of cancer. Blake: Yes, which okay another loop in this is that apparently Brooks said he had cancer a while back when Vicky was still with Dawn and Vicky was like I think I need to break up with Dawn this guy that I had a missed connection with who I really feel like I need to explore that with has cancer so I feel like I want to like explore that so she and um Brooks go back way longer than just the past couple seasons. It's really strange, but he had cancer back then too. It reminds me of that clip of like fucking NeNe when she's talking about Kim and she's like, you know, Kim is the only one I know who has blood clots, heart attack, seizure, and she's still complaining. She's like listing all these ailments, because I'm like, you've had cancer for your entire life it seems. ⁓ Anyway, so apparently Brooks told Brianna that he has pancreatic cancer, which is a Casey: Yeah. Blake: very serious, a very very very serious and lethal form of cancer. So Brianna being the nurse that she is, is like asking what your treatment is, all these things, and he eventually kind of just like gives up and says, ⁓ had pancreatitis. And Brianna says like that's just an inflammation of the pancreas and you can get that from abusing alcohol. Casey: Right, so that's a different thing. So thanks for that. ⁓ So like this lunch is important because we get to see Brianna's. Brianna's had her own journey of a bad relationship with Brooks, not only. Blake: Right. So not cancer. Casey: with the cancer, ignoring the cancer, she's had a bad relationship with this man. And then you add in stuff that he'd said to her and so she has her own reservations too. Tamara kind of says like, hey, like let me catch you up on what me and the women have been saying. And they're in agreement. Everybody's now on the same page besides Vicky that there is. a scam afoot and no one is believing him now. And this kind of sets us up for the end of the season. You know, everything once again, we know where we're at and we're going to Tamra's baptism and it can't be good things because everyone's in a horrible place. Well, Vicky's in a horrible place with everyone. Blake: Yeah. That's another side quest that we haven't spoken about because it's not like our focus in these episodes, but Tamar is getting baptized for whatever reason. She found Jesus suddenly and she's really interested in dipping herself under the water and being reborn. So that's the season finale that we head into is that we're going to Tamar's baptism and we're in the car. Casey: Amen. Blake: I we're in the car with Vicky and Brooks. ⁓ right, right, sorry. It's Vicky and some... ⁓ it's Vicky, her brother, and her brother's girlfriend. Can I just say, I always thought her brother was gay. Casey: Yeah, we're on the way, yeah. Well, Brooks doesn't go. I honestly never thought he was gay. just wouldn't, the way she talks about him, she treats him like he's like an infantile, like barely able to keep his own life together. Like she's always like, mom, my mom had to like really take care of him. So I'm just like, I'm surprised like. Blake: Yeah. That he has a girlfriend. Casey: I feel like she paints him, yeah, I feel like she just paints him in a way that I wouldn't expect that, which I mean, I guess that's on her and me, but I'm like, ⁓ okay, like, so he's fine. Like Vicky acts like he like needs all this aid a little ⁓ bit. He's definitely a little age regressed, maybe we could say. I mean, I don't know, who can say? I don't know Billy Bobby like that. Billy, if you're tuned in, we're sorry and we want to keep you as a listener, so. Blake: No, but he also like seemed like that on camera. Yeah, I don't know. It's- Sorry, sorry Billy Gunn-Volsen or whatever your last name is. Casey: Blame Vicky, she doesn't paint you in the right light, Billy. Blake: Billy, we- Billy, yeah. You know, she just got rehired, so feel free to film as your true authentic self. We would love to see you back. Billy Steinmetz, or whatever your name is. Well, because it is pretty amazing, but it's because Vicky's Instagram name is Vicky Steinmetz Gunvulsen. So I'm just assuming that that was her maiden name. And so that, by extension, anyway. So. Casey: ⁓ wow, you know his name! That's really beautiful. ⁓ hey now. Okay. All right, well, let's go get baptized. ⁓ And Tamra's baptism is the event of the season, darling. The baptism is a social event. She is repeatedly like, I need all my people to be here, even though that includes basically everyone she's ever met. Lynn Curtin is there, Tammy Knickerbocker, who are former OC Housewives. They're both there, even though. Blake: Yeah, please. I need to be saved. It's- Casey: Tamara never even filmed with them. It was pre Tamara. Blake: Right. I'm like, okay, I don't, I skipped so many of the early OC like episodes, seasons, because it was kind of weird for a little bit. It was a little bit giving like white supremacy. And I don't like know what role Tammy Knickerbocker played, but she shows up here and there. And I'm like, y'all really fuck with this lady? Like, like. Casey: Yeah. Like no, they don't. She was on like one season and- Blake: Are you trying to get clout for your baptism by having Tammy Knickerbocker there? Like... Okay. Tammy, can you please film? Film when I get baptized, Tammy. Casey: Tammy, please come to my baptism, sis. Wait, Tammy Star Power, they needed her there. And yeah, she gets like 0.5 seconds of screen time. Welcome back, Tamster. The fans went wild. Blake: Her beautiful star power. And we keep getting flashbacks. We keep getting flashbacks to so Vicky's on her way while like, Tamra's setting up and she's obviously talking about this drama with her brother. And ⁓ here's what she had to say. Casey: This is Satan's work. Blake: And you know what? And Satan loves confusion. He's told me that. Actually. Casey: loves and on it seems like on the way there she just like decides that her new defense for everything is Satan. Like she like is really hammering in the Satan point. Like in the car ride multiple times in her confessional multiple times. She's like, this is satanic. Like the devil, these women are the bringing the devil to my doorstep. Like she's framing it like this is some like test by God. that, like, no, like this is not what God would want, what Jesus would want. And she gets very biblical at the baptism. Blake: Yup. Right. Like- Right, like it's the snake, it's the snake in the garden of Eden and it's like, eat the apple and she's like no and the snake's like, Brooks doesn't have cancer and she's like yes he does and she's like leave me alone. Like that's how she's talking about it and it's like, maybe there's no snake. Well the snake is you, actually. Casey: No, it's like she felt bad she didn't wear a sexy outfit to the sex party. So she was like, let me be more on theme this time and come in with the Satan remarks, come in with their original sin. Like she was like, it's a baptism. Let's make it biblical and really get in the spirit for Tamra, which is sweet when you think about it. Blake: Jesus on the cross. Right. She whipped out her... Yup. Yup. It's very ⁓ yeah, it's definitely sweet. I think we also should have noticed that this was her getting more desperate because she was realizing that she was losing the plot because we find out, this is the finale, we find out in her finale card that she and Brooks broke up so it sounds like they were already on thin ice by the finale. Casey: ⁓ Blake: So I feel like this was her getting more desperate, just kind of throwing like all this prose at the wall, like, this is satanic, this is the walk of the devil. Like she was just, she was getting, she was feeling it, her Hemingway tee, you know, she was, mm-mm-mm. Moving on. Casey: Defo. Yeah. Plenty of drama at the baptism. ⁓ Lots to discuss. One bit that I thought was funny is Shannon is like, speaking of our boy Billy, Shannon is like randomly beefing with Billy's girlfriend Rhonda. Rhonda is... Rhonda comes in hot, she's mad for Vicky. Rhonda and Billy are like ready to be, ⁓ you know, as Vicky says, her soldiers and defend her. And Shannon is talking about, you know, the evidence, the cancer scam and Rhonda takes it upon herself to be like, ⁓ when you told Vicky that you had an affair, you didn't have to pull out documents to prove it to her, did you now? Whoa, Rhonda, reel it in, Rhonda. Blake: Rhonda, you just got here Rhonda. Let's maybe try to get to know everyone first before you fuck them. Casey: Whoa! Like... ⁓ my Rhonda, these are different situations. Like what do mean the cheating documents? Like what are you even saying, Rhondi girl? Blake: Mind you, right, first of all, like, in what situation are there documents? You know what I mean? Like, also, ⁓ like, who are you? Who are you? Like, we were, no, wait, that'd be funny to put in this after. Wait, ⁓ Casey: Who are you? Like that woman in Starbucks? Wait, okay, ⁓ I'll get it. Blake: But yeah, she comes over to her because Shannon is like, Shannon is, I mean, Shannon isn't like making more of a fuss, but Billie and her girlfriend, ⁓ Rhonda, I almost called her Rolanda, they come over and Heather and Shannon are both just like, like it's not adding up, it's kind of strange. And Billie's saying like, saw his records, like it's real. And they were like, well, you know, we saw his records too and all the... Casey: That's fine. Blake: words were smushed together and he goes, ⁓ not that one, I saw a different one. Which, so, he obviously doesn't have cancer, so is it that easy to convince these people, like Vicky and Vicky's brother and Rhonda, to just go on the attack? No one's gonna be like, that's too much for me, like you're- Casey: Right. No, Billy is adamant at this event. He's like, guys, like, Brooks really has cancer. We like, we really believe him. ⁓ And the girls are not even having this from Billy. They're like, Billy is performing her political agenda. Like they're, they were told what to say and to kind of come in and be, the messenger of like, Brooks has cancer and we can confirm that, which is definitely true. And Vicky is. Blake: Yeah. Casey: trying not to talk to the women for most of the parties. So she's like mingling and Billy and Rhonda are fighting the good fight for her. ⁓ But Shannon gets so incensed about that. And then we have Heather who's also mad about something and that's how we kind of get everybody together if you wanna. Blake: which she loves to do. But Heather... ⁓ Yeah, so Shannon is mad because she's like, know, Vicki put Rhonda up to this. She told her my business, which she wasn't supposed to do, and then unleashed her at this baptism. But Heather, this was crazy. Heather says basically that Vicki told Shannon a story that Brooks was really sick in the middle of the night and Vicky said, let's call Terry Dubrow and see what he has to say. They called Terry, he got Brooks an IV in the middle of the night and nursed him back to health. And so this story is getting around the group and Heather hears it and she goes, well, that's my husband. So I know that didn't happen, but why is she saying this? Like, that's just a lie. So she confronts Vicky and Vicky literally is like, that's, I didn't say that. Like that's not true. And she's like, well then how, like why are people saying this? Like who said that? Like who else would have made that up if you weren't the one who made that up? Which is like, obviously these people don't have their story straight. Vicky and Brooks have been saying different things the whole season. However, you called up Shannon and told her that I don't, I don't think that I would ⁓ get that story wrong, you know what I mean? Like how do you fuck that story up to such a degree? it's like also, if you are actively lying about that, you are in a friend group with the wife of the man you are talking about. Casey: Right. Right, it's another one of those question marks, why did you think that this was a good step? in the direction that you're going. Vicky, even if you're believing him about his cancer, even if you're just making this up, for whatever reason, again, why not pick a lie that isn't so easily debunked? There's not a lot of critical thinking going on between Vicky and Brooks. The Latino bread is eating their brains over at the Coto da Casa mansion, because it's not a good ⁓ scam, it's not a good lie. It's like a D minus at best. Blake: in your lying journey. Refutable. really getting to him. It's just two dumb bitches telling each other exactly at this point. Vicky... Brooks isn't there, Vicky's like, I'm meeting him at another party, I don't want to deal with this. She leaves, then everyone, you know, corners her in the front of the establishment trying to get her to stay. And we get this amazing... This is like genuinely one of the most beautiful moments in Housewives history. Like it is... cinematic as fu- Casey: Yeah, for real. He did nothing wrong. Blake: He did nothing wrong and he was nailed to the cross and that's what's happening to me. I'm innocent. Casey: And I do have to say, body was T at the baptism for Vicky. She's looking good, like she's got shape, like she's got a nice, like she's looking real good. Even when she's on the cross like Jesus was, you can kind of see the... Blake: Even when she's getting nailed to the cross like Jesus was, looks, I mean, Vicky is T-H-I-C-C thick. And, you know, she, she, she never really is single for that long. I won't say that the men she dates are particularly attractive, but she's never single for that long. Casey: No. Well, she's never single. That's what she says, I think, at the reunion when Brooks, when she's talking about the breakup, like this is the first time she's lived alone in that house ever. Like she's never been by herself, which is crazy. But yeah, you know, the baptism, they all argue Vicky is incensed. Everyone's mad as hell, whole house mad. ⁓ Blake: Yeah Whole house mad, Vicky abscons, she gets in her limo, Hummer limo to go to the other party and she's like, I'm done with this. All of this is disgusting minutia. And she leaves. Casey: Her upper lip up. I know, and she says, she says really struck me. She goes, I feel like I've been baptized tonight. Like I am coming out of this fresh and renewed and free of sin. And it's like, ⁓ the drag delusion is so serious. Like it's really, really gone to her brain. It's bad. It's really bad. This is not good. Blake: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah, I mean comparing yourself to Jesus and saying you were the one baptized when you was your friends Baptist I mean Look, she's been through a lot. Her brain has come out of her ears We can't we can't blame her for these feelings of delusion so the season ends we find out that Casey: Click. Hey. ⁓ Blake: You know, on Vicky's end of the season title card where it's playing the kind of sad introspective end of season music and then it's like, and then it's like Vicky and Brooks broke up and it's like, yeah. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Casey: Yeah, we knew that. Girl, we knew that. They break up, they like purposefully, we go to the reunion ⁓ and they purposefully kind of ignore the Brooke stuff all through like part one, almost all through part two until we bring on towards like the middle to the end of part two of the reunion, we bring Brianna out for her time on the stage. Blake: ⁓ my god. We bring Brienne out, but I think it's very important to let the listener viewer know that Vicky took a Xanax at the beginning of this reunion. She took a Xanax and everyone noticed that was the first question Andy asked her. Did you take anything before you got on this stage? And she was like, well, no, except for a Xanax. And she's sitting there the entire time. She's like, yeah. Casey: ⁓ yeah. Thank Blake: I definitely think that was interesting. And he's like, you seem just a little bit less engaged than you normally are. Casey: seem a little checked out and Brianna's like, yep, she's in the hell out. Like she's barred out and Figgie's like, no, no. Blake: Yeah, Vicky's like, what are you talking about, Brianna? I don't know, that's not true. Like. Casey: So, I mean, I don't know why I always feel like I just have to defend her. I would probably take lots of Xanax before this too. Like, I mean, this is gonna be tough one for her. Blake: Either that, or I'd show up wasted. I'd be like, WHO WANTS TO GO?! Casey: Right, like. But yeah, Brianna comes out, we kind of get into the issues between Brianna and Brooks and she is revealing some of the things she said to Tamra, like about what he said to her about encouraging her husband to beat her. ⁓ And she says that ⁓ Brooks would... Blake: ⁓ my god. Casey: try to make like sexual advances towards her and other other younger women, her friends, women that would be at the house for parties and stuff. And that he had even like talked about his appendage and had said like my people call me girth brooks. Like that's my that's my nickname. Blake: And she was pregnant while he was saying all this to her. He was flirting, hitting on her while she was pregnant, talking about Garth Brooks and what she said was Vicky would never be there while he would do this shit so then she'd come in and he, and she wouldn't believe Brianna because she'd be like, that's so crazy, like that, he would never do this crazy thing. So she always felt like Gaslit and like her mom never took her own side, which, really makes you look at Vicky like yuck. Casey: It's horrible. It's the most horrible thing about this whole thing, probably, is the way that Vicky has treated Brianna. ⁓ And I was thinking that when I was watching was just like, not only with some of her friends, but Vicky is so lucky to still have a relationship with her daughter after all of this. Like the fact that Brianna was there sitting next to her on that stage. I just like, I mean, who knows? Family is... Blake: Yeah, because... Yeah. Yeah Casey: is your own messy stuff and who knows what goes on off camera, what we don't see. I just really hope that there was a lot of making up to her and a lot of, I don't even know what you do to amend that, but it's shocking. It's genuinely upsetting to even imagine a mother doing that to her kid, thinking about me, thinking about anyone, that's a lot. Blake: Yeah, I think that, I mean, she had to have literally been like, cause like, this entire relationship, she put Brooks first and it wasn't even like, I'm putting him first because I'm later in life and I don't have anybody and you have your family. Like she fully was condoning and explaining away the most reprehensible behavior. Like your husband should. you know, hit you more and flirting with your daughter when she- and then Vicky even said something like ⁓ well he wouldn't be interested in you. Are you insane? That's your response? No, it's fucking weird. Anyway, so ⁓ Brooks apparently had a scheduling conflict with the reunion. ⁓ that's- that's his line and he's sticking with it. Casey: My God, I feel sick. Blake: He had a scheduling conflict and he couldn't be at the reunion but he did manage to find time to fly to New York and sit down with Andy Cohen for a Watch What Happens Live style interview where he opined on the season. And really, you know, just obviously a horrible person. Nothing new though. Like I didn't think anything, I didn't think anything he said. Casey: No. It's kind of giving, like it's kind of giving that Sydney Sweeney interview from this year where like she's just kind of like saying nothing at all. Like where the interviewer is like, can you disavow white supremacy in Sydney's? My beliefs are very evident and you should always know what I believe. Brooks is kind of doing that around everything. Like, it's like, you know, he's talking out of his ass. He's gaslighting Andy now. Blake: Right. The main things that he says are really like, you know, the women in Brianna caused our breakup. He said Brianna lied about Vicky's family not accepting him and that Brianna was trying to manipulate Vicky. He accuses Brianna of leaning on Vicky financially and that's part of the reason that she didn't like him because she wanted Vicky's money and Brianna's... You know, like I literally make six figures. My mortgage is like extremely cheap. I think I'm good. But she lives in Oklahoma. It's five dollars to buy a house. But I think that also it's like, okay, your argument is that Vicky's own daughter should be supported financially by Vicky instead of this instead of me, this random man. Like that's not really sympathetic, sir. Right. And then she, Brianna literally looks at the screen and goes, ⁓ fuck off. Like she's like, fuck you. You're fucking annoying. Casey: Right, she lives in Oklahoma. Right, like that's her daughter. Blake: And then, because Brooks was saying that Vicki's mom, and Vicki was saying that Vicki's mom approved of Brooks, Brianna was like, spoke to her the day before she died, and she said she hated Brooks, she thought he was gonna take Vicki's money, and he apparently would speak about her genitalia in front of family members. Which is like, you are disgusting. Like that's so- Casey: And if you think about it, if Vicky had justifiably picked up on red flags or even if she didn't and she just listened to Brianna and trusted her. The whole cancer scam would have never even happened because Vicki wouldn't have been with Brooks. Her reputation wouldn't have suffered. Her relationship with her friends wouldn't have suffered. So ignoring everything, could have never had, this podcast episode would have never even existed if Vicki had listened to Brianna. Or maybe it would for another woman who got scammed on another show, but it wouldn't exist for Vicki Gumbelson. Blake: Right. right. And many of you You And many of you would be crying in your rooms alone and sad because you couldn't listen to this episode of this podcast. So thanks Vicky for giving us something to talk about. So Heather has a really fun line. She says like, talking about like, know, why you didn't go to Shannon's doctor. She's like, you keep bringing all these non-cologists out. Why didn't you talk to a real doctor? Which Casey: So, thank you, Vicki. I'm sorry, you know she thought she ate with the, she was at home with Terry like, wait, Terry, and what if then I say non-colleges? Terry was like, that's fire. Blake: Wait, you know how it's on, Colleges, if I said not? No, she definitely came in ready, and her bangs, her fucking bangs, she was ready. Wait, was this the season with the bangs? Did I just make that up? Okay, I fully just- Casey: No, I was just gonna let you hallucinate the bang in the scene. This is not the bang one, but that's a good one. Blake: Whenever I picture Heather Dubrow, whenever I picture her at a reunion, like regardless, it's just the same Heather Dubrow with the bangs. Yeah, it's just, it's that, that's the only way she shows up for a reunion in my mind. But so they talk about Vicky for some reason is still saying like, don't have proof that he doesn't have cancer. Like she's, she's like, I do still think he had cancer. I don't have proof he doesn't have cancer. And then Shannon, she goes, I do. Casey: The pic with the bang, I know the one, yeah. Blake: She pulls out a real cat scam and she starts line by line. This was smushed. This wouldn't be. And then she said, he went to Newport, ⁓ but they use Hoag transcribers. And she was like, that's not true. At Hoag, they have a much bigger department. They don't need to, she was just debunking all of it. Casey: Sit lot of detail on why a report that Brooke showed could have never come out of there but have never been approved. every reason in the book as to why it's fraudulent. Like she she makes a solid case. Blake: Right. Yeah, it was, I mean, I have to say like that is probably Shannon Bedore top number one ever moment that she's been on the show. Like she locked in for that. Casey: Right. And that's why it kind of makes me mad when people credit MKE with the whole cancer scam thing. Like Shannon built this house. Like Shannon was taking the brunt from Vicky, arguably maybe more than Megan, more consistently anyway, is more like throughout the whole season. And she's the one who actually comes with the research that isn't insane and invasive and word of mouth like Megan. And it's funny too, because there's kind of like a sliding scale of Who's mad at Vicky at what moment on the reunion and throughout the season? Like each of the women gets their wax in. Heather is pissed, Tamara is pissed, Shannon has her kind of presentation. And weirdly, Megan is probably the quietest this entire reunion. Like she's kind of like, I've done my part. She's laid the traps and she's ready to watch everybody else come with the pitchforks and take Vicky down. Because yeah, it's always kind of going between Shannon Blake: Yeah Casey: Tamra, Heather, who's really pissed at the exact moment, but yeah, they're mad as hell. Whole house still mad, besides Megan maybe. Blake: I mean, cause she's also not really copping to that much. She's still kind of defending him, which is a bit strange. And then we get a moment where Heather confronts ⁓ Vicky about the IV story, I believe. And Vicky straight up admits that I lied for compassion. Let's play that clip. Casey: Keep it going, Vicki. And she says, I think the word that she uses is I fabricated. And they're all like, you fabricated. And Andy's like, all right, let her admit to lying. She's admitting to lying. And so on top of, she says I fabricated. So we get a little bit of an admission from her that she's made up or embellished stories during this whole thing. And she says, they're all getting, like you said, annoyed that she's dancing around it. And somebody goes like, just. Answer yes or no. What does your gut say right now? Do you really think he has cancer? And Vicky says, no, I don't think he has it. My gut is saying no. And this is the first time she says this. Everyone seems at least a little bit like, OK. At least she does understand that it's not looking good. Blake: Right But this was after the past two parts of the reunion that she said, think he still has cancer. So it's one of those, right. But it kind of feels like when Karen was like, I didn't get my boobs reduced. And then when she was like, you know, when you get older and you have to like take your implants out and Andy was like, so you did get them reduced. And she was like, yeah. And he was like, didn't you just like, it's the same thing here where it's like you were just the entire. Casey: I know. Well, she said her gut. She said like, have no proof. So she didn't want to fully say it because she hasn't. Yeah. Yeah, it's semantics. Blake: It's semantics, it is semantics. And I think also just like being berated for however long they do these reunions. Eventually she was like, you know what, you're probably right. Casey: That's probably true. And Andy says again to her like. Hey, like, let's talk again about all the Xanax you took before this because you seem like really disconnected because again, like, you know, this is heavy stuff and she's just kind of like slow blinking. Like, yes, I, my gut, my gut says he has cancer. It's still a big deal. One thing that I, I've always, I I remember thinking this when I watched it for the first time too is Vicky, they, they lightly bring up, mean, it's not like a light topic, but they don't talk too much about it. They bring up that Vicky was being abused physically during the relationship by Brooks, like Brianna, Blake: Yes! Yes! Casey: Brianna confirms it, Vicky's kind of trying to deny it, Andy asks, are you scared of him? What is the reason that you won't kind of condemn all of this? I wouldn't say she's fully defending him, but she's trying to hold some level of like... Blake: She doesn't want to go all in on it. Casey: Yeah, she's trying to hold some level of, but this was true even if this wasn't, like she's trying to keep some level of it, which I think is more for her sake than his at the end of the day, but still. So Brianna says like he had, she'd seen him like physically shaking her like to the point that like her head was moving back and forth, like lollygagging back and forth basically among a few other events. And she says, if this is what I've seen, who knows what goes on in private. And the women. totally skip over this. Like the women say nothing. Like it's really a conversation between Brianna, Andy and Vicky and nobody really says anything. And then Vicky says also there was a ton of verbal abuse. Like Vicky says, no, it wasn't really physical, but it was a lot of verbal. And I find that a little sad. think that I understand it was a very tough situation and Vicky is not innocent and has her own share of blame in the matter. But for me, I heard that and I thought Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Casey: It does, I I do find it odd that there isn't even a shred of compassion for her, that she's clearly been, like, her mind has been so altered in this relationship that if this is something that she really can't see, like... Blake: manipulated and Casey: you have to feel a little bit bad for your friend. Like they kept saying, like, this is a very smart woman. Like it's sad that this situation has caught her up in it. so I think I just feel a little bit like at a point I wish there was an acknowledgement of that. Like, and I understand that they have their wounds and they needed to air those out rather than give Vicky sympathy. Cause that's not the point of this. And that's not like what you can expect after doing all of that. But I found it interesting. Yes. Blake: Right. But she was clearly in a co- coercive relationship. Like it's not her... It's... It might be frustrating, but it's not her 100 % own volition that she is caping for him and covering up and like there's an aspect of it that is... And I think she did say she is scared of him. If I... Yeah. Casey: She nodded, the moment is he says, are you scared of him? And there's like a silence and Vicky kind of like very subtly nods her head yes. And that's when Andy says like, has he hurt you or what is it? And Brianna answers and says, 100 % he has physically abused her. Cause Vicky was starting to be like, no, he's never physically and Brianna was like, no, he has. Blake: Well, and they even said, Brianna said specifically, like the night before the reunion, they were sharing a hotel room, Vicky and Brianna, and they like split a bottle of wine, they were keeking like girls, and Vicky was like showing Brianna that he's still blowing her phone up, saying like, you're useless, you're nothing without me like fucking going in on her, and Brianna made a good point, like I saw him shake you violently in front of a party of like 15 people. So what's he doing behind closed doors? You know, like, I think that if we're gonna try to, you know, as we conclude this episode, I think if we're gonna try to figure out or pinpoint exactly what would compel someone like Vicky to go along with such a clear scam, ⁓ you know, it's a complex situation. I think that she's terrified of being alone. I think that Brooks is very charismatic, know, to a certain demographic of woman. And I think that he was abusive. And if you look at it through that lens, it makes a lot more sense why she would be so, like, his warrior. Casey: Right, and there's a lot wrapped up in this too, beyond all of what you just said. It's also her own insecurities, her own relationship with how she is codependent. She doesn't like to be alone. There's a lot going on behind Vicky's psyche that I think wraps her up into this. ⁓ But it is, in a large part, it's sad. It's like this has been something that really affected her life for a long period of time. Blake: Yeah. Casey: damaged her life and her relationships. So it's good fun to laugh at for us and like to look at how crazy it was, but ultimately it's another example of a woman who gets duped so bad by a man that their entire worldview changes. It's a scary thing. It happens to all of us. Blake: Yeah. I really Yeah, when you put it that way it does happen to all of us you have to you know I my hope for Everyone listening if you are into men even if you are I mean whoever you're into but it Predominantly if you're into man Don't wait not wait. I'm not saying she intentionally waited but try to figure out how to be discerning about the partners you pick and try to be able to firm boundaries and try to be able to identify red flags quickly and I would say two strikes and you're out. I think three strikes is a little crazy. I think two red flags and we're gonna pack it up and... Casey: Yeah, have firm boundaries. I agree, and if you're making a list of non-negotiables tonight for your future romantic endeavors, maybe just add at the end, if my man will not show me his PET scan when he has non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, I will leave him. If my man is blasting his body with resveratrol instead of chemotherapy, I will leave him immediately, and you will remember this warning. Blake: claims to have. Yeah. If my man hits on my pregnant daughter, I will leave him. Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Casey: I guess yeah, I guess we could just start there. Honestly, if we start from day dot, if your man needs you to pay for his teeth transplant reconstruction surgery, leave him. Blake: Yes ladies, everyone, amen, amen, am I right? Alright well Casey, why don't we end with, why don't you tell the viewer slash listener, I don't know, we need to figure out a name for that because it's really clunky to say viewer slash listener but. Casey: you I know, you're so thoughtful of them. ⁓ Blake: I'm trying to be inclusive, but why don't you tell the audience, that's probably better, where are we going next week? Casey: There was an Easter egg as to where we're going next week, carefully, strategically placed at the beginning of this episode. And we will be going to New York City, baby, to go back. Blake: ⁓ at the beginning? In New York! Sorry. Casey: to our friend Carol. So we'll be looking at season 10 of New York City and diving into the feuds, the fights, the falls, the good times of it all, yes. Blake: The highs and lows of friendship. Yup. And ⁓ I for one am very excited to get to discuss Dorinda finally. mean, finally it's only been a month since we've been doing this podcast, but I, you know, that's my, that's my girl. That's my girl. And you get to talk about Luanne. So that should be really happy for you as well. Casey: Finally! I know. Our sisters. I don't even think this is a good time for them, but maybe we'll be at odds. I don't know, we'll see. Blake: ⁓ no, they're definitely, we're gonna have to be like in court litigating this against each other, but you know what? You know what? I'm ready to put my barrister wig on. I'm ready to put my cloak on. Because I'm sorry. I live and die for Dorinda. Casey: okay. I'm ready. Whatever, ⁓ we'll just ignore that. Luana Ticks, tune in next week. And we will absolutely take Blake down. Blake: you Alright, we'll see you next week y'all. Peace! Casey: Bye.